AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] Attention!!!!! Stop this sh it!!! TFP -nextquestions

Franz Schönhofer franz.schoenhofer at chello.at
Sat Jan 7 15:50:45 CST 2006 

Thank you, Mr. Mitchell Davis, for the good laugh you provided with your two
messages sent to RADSAFE and not to me privately, so I return my answer to
the list as another prove of what I claimed - that some RADSAFErs provide
our worst "enemies" with food to attack us. You did not provide anything on
the topic, what a pity.  

Mr. Mitchell Davis, I was very surprised recently to read a contribution of
you to RADSAFE which did not advertise your business (not allowed on
RADSAFE) and not flaming me. Now you are back at your favourite past drive:
flaming me. If it only had been on topic! 

By your question about LMAO you pretend to know one of the most (in)famous
citations from German literature written by Goethe in "Goetz von
Berlichingen". The original is anyway rather different, it reads "Sag dem
Hauptmann er soll mich ..." The three points are genuinly to be found in the
original text. In spite of your obvious attempts to claim to be familiar
with German literature you show in your funny (silly) question, whether LMAO
is Austrian or German that you are an absolute ignorant, who lacks any
general education. If you are interested in lectures on European culture,
basic information on European languages and lessons on how to behave in a
non-US-American environment you are welcome to subscribe to courses at the
same rates you charge for your courses. A surcharge of up to 500% might
apply because of your ignorance. 

Please continue with your ridiculous outbursts, sometimes I (and other
RADSAFErs) need a good laugh. 

Franz Schoenhofer
PhD, MR iR
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
AUSTRIA
phone -43-0699-1168-1319


> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im
> Auftrag von Mitchell W. Davis
> Gesendet: Samstag, 07. Jänner 2006 08:33
> An: 'Jim Hardeman'; radsafe at radlab.nl
> Betreff: RE: AW: [ RadSafe ] Attention!!!!! Stop this sh it!!! TFP -
> nextquestions
> 
> Now that is funny...So Franz...how do you say LMAO in Austrian?...or is
> that
> German?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On
> Behalf
> Of Jim Hardeman
> Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:27 PM
> To: radsafe at radlab.nl
> Subject: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] Attention!!!!! Stop this sh it!!! TFP -next
> questions
> 
> Franz *
> 
> Glad to see that Dale Carnegie "How to Win Friends and Influence People"
> course is still payin' off for ya ... <grin>
> 
> Jim
> 
> >>> Franz Schönhofer <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at> 1/6/2006 15:15:08 >>>
> 
> RADSAFErs,
> 
> What most of you post about this is shit. Yes, it is ---shit-----. And it
> gives the Anti's the munition they need - if they ever are able to comment
> scientifically on what you distribute here.
> 
> I started this thread to find out whether anything about the TFP-method of
> analyzing was available. I did not start it to give some wannabees the
> possibility to see their name on Radsafe. Most of the responses are
> absolutely ridiculous and finally I have to thank one of the most rejected
> posters for his information.
> 
> Chemiluminescense interference - ridiculous, no comment
> 
> K-40 -ridiculous, no comment
> 
> C-14 - ridiculous, no comment
> 
> Tritium _ ridiculous, no comment
> 
> Ra-226 and progeny, ridiculous if correctly measured.
> 
> I still wait for a more concise description of the analytical prodedures.
> I
> have contacted the TFP contacts but not received any answer.
> 
> What has been distributed here at RADSAFE is more than 90 % shame which
> might be used by real experts to show that RADSAFE-scientists have no clue
> about the method used in the TFP.
> 
> Please flame me or rather give me correct information!!!!
> 
> Franz
> 
> 
> 
> Franz Schoenhofer
> PhD, MR iR
> Habicherg. 31/7
> A-1160 Vienna
> AUSTRIA
> phone -43-0699-1168-1319
> 
> 
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im
> > Auftrag von Jim Hardeman
> > Gesendet: Freitag, 06. Jänner 2006 15:14
> > An: radsafe at radlab.nl
> > Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] TFP - next questions
> >
> > Jim / Steve *
> >
> > Thanks for such excellent responses to James' assertions. I would only
> add
> > to the discussion of chemoluminescence that the whole discussion of how
> > LSC was performed on these samples is lacking. We could get into the
> > esoterica of dark adaptation of samples, temperature control of samples,
> > QA/QC in terms of how many blanks / splits / duplicates were performed,
> > etc. etc. etc. Blindly believing sample results that come spitting out
> of
> > a laboratory simply because a laboratory scientist wears a white coat
> and
> > the printout came out of a computer doesn't strike me as the way I would
> > want to do business. Does the laboratory that performed these Sr-90
> > analyses participate in any laboratory-intercomparison programs?
> >
> > My $0.02 worth ...
> >
> > Jim Hardeman, Manager
> > Environmental Radiation Program
> > Environmental Protection Division
> > Georgia Department of Natural Resources
> > 4220 International Parkway, Suite 100
> > Atlanta, GA 30354
> > (404) 362-2675
> > Fax: (404) 362-2653
> > E-mail: Jim_Hardeman at dnr.state.ga.us
> >
> > >>> <StevenFrey at aol.com> 1/6/2006 3:11:28 >>>
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Jim. I stand corrected (was thinking C-14 rather than K-40), and
> > am
> > flattered that anyone is reading my ramblings.
> >
> > As for the point that Mr. Salsman was making that "K-40 or something
> > instead
> > of Sr-90....is killing kids", the larger response remains: there is no
> > credible scientific or statistical evidence of that claim, either.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > In a message dated 1/6/2006 2:40:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > jimm at WPI.EDU
> > writes:
> >
> > Hi  Steve,  A good response, but note that K40 is not cosmogenic.  It is
> > a
> > primordial radionuclide, half-life 1.3 billion years, and makes up
> > 0.000117
> > of natural potassium, which is essential for biology to function,  and
> is
> > a
> > significant source of direct radiation from the ground, especially  in
> > those
> > areas that have low natural uranium and thorium  concentrations.
> >
> > Regards, Jim Muckerheide
> >
> >
> > > -----Original  Message-----
> > > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl  [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On
> > > Behalf Of  StevenFrey at aol.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:46 PM
> > >  To: james at bovik.org; radsafe at radlab.nl
> > > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] TFP -  next questions
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi James, pretty entertaining  comments. Couple thoughts:
> > >
> > > - you suggest that the nuclear  power industry should bear the cost
> for
> > > sampling bone to help  understand the tooth results. I would counter
> > > suggest that
> > > it  is the responsibility of the study producers to do that, since it
> is
> > >  they
> > > who  are making the suggestion (read: veiled claim) claim  that there
> > is
> > > causation.
> > >
> > > - chemoluminescence is  not contamination. It is a source of counting
> > error
> > > in liquid  scintillation samples in which fluorescence photons
> produced
> > > from  the
> > >  interaction of the sample material with the cocktail will  produce
> > counts.
> > > And lots of them, even in ordinary cases.  Radioactivity does not
> have
> > to
> > > be
> > > present in the sample  to produce it. That is why care in sample
> > > preparation is
> > >  vital.  Having a liquid scintillation counter that can
> automatically
> > > detect
> > > and discount chemoluminescence counts  would help, too. The  Report
> > makes
> > > no
> > > mention of whether  chemoluminescence was anticipated or  discounted.
> > >
> > > - Why  did the study producers apparently not split their tooth
> samples
> > and
> > >  send them to multiple labs? Relying on only one lab, and that one
> > being
> > > selected by the study producer, eliminates objectivity from  the
> > claimed
> > > results.
> > >
> > > - Your quoting of cancer  statistics below is missing any objective
> > > causative
> > > mechanism  that nuclear power caused it. There could be other  sources
> > of
> > >  error that were not identified in the Report as having been
> > considered.
> > > For
> > > example, chemical exposure, air  pollution,  lifestyle, gerrymandering
> > of
> > > the
> > > statistics  themselves, and so on.  Besides, there are other, much
> > better
> > >  controlled
> > > data, that indicates  that at low doses, there is no  increase in
> cancer
> > > rates
> > > among the  studied individuals.  The DOE Nuclear Shipyard Worker Study
> > is
> > > one
> > > such data  set,  and it involved a pretty convincing study population
> of
> > >  many
> > > tens of  thousands of individuals. Plus, there does not seem  to be an
> > > increase
> > > in cancer  among nuclear medicine or  radiology practitioners. So you
> > see,
> > > my
> > > statistics can beat up  your statistics.
> > >
> > > - statistics again: a claim of p < 0.002  by the study producers means
> > > nothing without any explanation provided  as to how it was calculated.
> > > Again,
> > > selective gerrymandering  of the tooth statistics can easily produce
> an
> > > even  lower  p
> > > than that! The quality of the p depends in part on how small   one
> cuts
> > the
> > > sample, that is, number of individuals against whom  a  single
> incidence
> > of
> > > tooth
> > > Sr-90 (real or fancied) is  detected, and then  including only those
> > > kernels
> > > in the  final statistical summary. The Report offers  no explanation
> on
> > how
> > > its
> > > p was calculated.
> > >
> > > - K-40 is a  naturally-occurring radionuclide, produced by cosmic ray
> > > interactions  with the atmosphere. Nuclear power doesn't produce it,
> and
> > > the   medical
> > > profession doesn't use it, either. You would have to erect a  1000-
> foot
> > > thick
> > > concrete astrodome over America to effectively  stop its production.
> But
> > > would
> > > you want to do that? There's no  scientific evidence that K-40 in
> > natural
> > > concentrations causes cancer,  and you can bet that graffiti artists
> > would
> > > be
> > > busting to get  at all that clean 'canvas' up there.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your  thoughts...Ernie's, too. :-)
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> > >  In a message dated 1/5/2006 6:50:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > >  james at bovik.org writes:
> > >
> > > I guess  I get to be the lone  defender of Sternglass on RADSAFE.
> > > Just what I've  always  wanted!
> > >
> > > > Two potential error factors that do   not  appear to be
> > > > addressed in
> > > >   http://mtafund.org/prodlib/radiation_health/final_report.pdf
> > > >  are   chemoluminescence and K-40 LSA correction, either of
> > >  > which can easily  produce a 'false positive' for Sr-90/Y-90
> > >  > presence.
> > >
> > > Why would  this confound the blinding of  the teeth source?
> > >
> > > Is there any  reason that  chemoluminescent contamination is
> > > expected to be more  prevalent  in areas near reactors?
> > >
> > > If the increased radiation is due  to  K-40, what difference
> > > does that make if the higher  scintillation activity  is
> > > strongly correlated with geographical  regions where the
> > > cancer  death rate is 13% above the national  mean (24% above
> > > for breast cancer;  16% for childhood cancer) but  all other
> > > causes of death are only 0.1%  about the national  mean.
> > > Where is the hormesis effect that should be   occurring?
> > >
> > > > Another problem is the absence of comparative  sample  media
> > > > to help understand and  correlate the  study results. If  we
> > > > assume that  Sr-90 in teeth ought  to correspond with  Sr-90
> > > > in bone from the same   individual, too, then bone  sampling
> > > > and analysis should be  part of this  particular study.
> > >
> > > Certainly the nuclear  energy industry associations will
> > > immediately front the money to pay  for independent study
> > > of bone-teeth  correlations to clear their  good name at
> > > their earliest possible  convenience, right?
> > >
> > > Right?
> > >
> > > Any takers?
> > >
> > > You -- at  your  desk with the funny trefoil stickers on your
> > > monitor -- can  you spare fifty  grand for some bone studies
> > > of cows in the Tooth  Fairy Project's hot  areas?
> > >
> > > Please?
> > >
> > >  [crickets chirping]
> > >
> > >
> > > > Finally, the  claim by  the Report that the data shows more
> > > > Sr-90 in teeth near   nuclear power plants than elsewhere
> > > > seems to be a weak  correlation at  best....
> > >
> > > Is there any actual  mathematical argument against the  reports
> > > claim of p < 0.002  (p. 24), or is this just a thinly veiled
> > > argument from  emotion?
> > >
> > > > simply precipiting carbonates is not   specific enough for
> > > > Sr-90 analysis.  A whole range of  natural  (and artificial)
> > > > radionuclides would carry through  the procedure.
> > >
> > > So where's that mass spectroscopy money from  the nuclear
> > > energy  industry associations?
> > >
> > > [more  crickets]
> > >
> > > And, so what?  If  the kids are getting  killed by massive
> > > amount of K-40 or something instead  of Sr-90,  is there any
> > > evidence that whatever isotope(s) are the culprit   aren't
> > > coming from the reactors near which the activity levels  are
> > > found to be much greater?
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >  James  Salsman
> > >
> > >  _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
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