[ RadSafe ] BBC Reports Radioactive poison fear over spy

Wed Nov 22 00:09:41 CST 2006

I get that all of the time here when employees have had 'stress tests'. They usually let me know if they are going to have a radiopharmaceutical administered and get a letter from their doctor stating the isotope and Ci content. Then they get a letter of release so that Security does not hold them when they alarm the Gamma 60 on exit from work each day. We also take away their TLD so that the dose does not go on record as occupational. Rather common and not considered much of a concern.

Floyd W. Flanigan B.S.Nuc.H.P.

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of stewart farber
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 11:54 AM
To: radsafe at radlab.nl; srp-uk at yahoogroups.com; Dawson, Fred Mr; Franz Schönhofer; Vernig, Peter G.
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] BBC Reports Radioactive poison fear over spy

Hi all,
Of interest and minor relevance regarding setting off portal monitors, there
was a report in the NYTimes back in the mid-1980s where a person on public
tour through the White House [they used to allow this before 9/11!]  set off
radiation monitors a week or so after having had a Th-201 heart study.
Created a bit of a flurry at the time until it was realized it was just
residual internal activity in this person from the heart test.

Stewart Farber, MS Public Health
Consulting Scientist
1285 Wood Ave.
Bridgeport, CT 06604
[203] 367-0791 [office]
[203] 522-2817 [cell]
email: radproject at sbcglobal.net

===============================
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vernig, Peter G." <Peter.Vernig at va.gov>
To: "Franz Schönhofer" <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>; "Dawson, Fred Mr"
<Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk>; <srp-uk at yahoogroups.com>; <radsafe at radlab.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] BBC Reports Radioactive poison fear over spy

Franz and Group,

Thallium-201 is commonly used for heart studies.  The dose is generally 3-5
mCi [111 - 185 MBq].  The specific activity is on the order of tenths of
micrograms per mCi.  So you are quite right not enough to be toxic.

And power reactor workers are well known to set off portal alarms up to a
month after a thallium heart study.  The thallium-201 effective half life is
almost equivalent to the physical half life [~3d] because it is strongly
retained.  Also there is about a 1% contaminant of Tl-202 which has a 12 day
physical half life.  I didn't read how long ago the poisoning took place but
the indication that radioactive thallium [presuming it was Tl-201] would be
long gone is also probably not accurate.

Any opinions in this e-mail are solely those of the author, and are not
represented as those of the VA Eastern Colorado HCS, the Dept. of Veterans
Affairs, or the US Government.

Peter G. Vernig, Radiation Safety Officer, MS-115, VA Eastern Colorado
Health Care System, 1055 Clermont St. Denver, CO 80220, peter.vernig at va.gov,
Phone= 303.399.8020 x2447; Fax = 303.393.5026, alternate fax, 303.393.5248

"...whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is lovely, whatever is
admirable, if anything is found to be excellent or praiseworthy, let your
mind dwell on these things."

Paul of Tarsus
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf
Of Franz Schönhofer
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 7:15 AM
To: 'Dawson, Fred Mr'; srp-uk at yahoogroups.com; radsafe at radlab.nl
Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] BBC Reports Radioactive poison fear over spy

Another "real" expert!!!

The amounts of radioactive Thallium used in hospitals for cardiological
tests (I had such a test myself a few years ago) are so extremely low in
terms of mass of Tl, that this "expert" is really ridiculous. If the
activities were extremely high to cause damage through radiation the
symptoms would be totally different - as I think everybody knows them. Is
this profesor John Henry a Greenpeace expert?

The case seems to be extremely simple: Thallium is used as a poison to kill
rats and is popularily known as "rat poison". Its use to poison and kill
people is probably as old as the element was known and was in earlier times
rather "popular" besides the use of arsenik. It really works as many cases
have shown very well, but can be easily detected.

Best regards,

Franz

Franz Schoenhofer
PhD, MR iR
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
AUSTRIA
phone -43-0699-1168-1319

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im
> Auftrag von Dawson, Fred Mr
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. November 2006 14:01
> An: srp-uk at yahoogroups.com; radsafe at radlab.nl
> Betreff: [ RadSafe ] BBC Reports Radioactive poison fear over spy
>
> BBC Reports Radioactive poison fear over spy
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6167728.stm
>
> The Russian dissident ill in a London hospital may have been poisoned
> with a radioactive substance, an expert toxicologist has said.
>
> Professor John Henry said Alexander Litvinenko, 41, had symptoms
> consistent with thallium poisoning but other symptoms linked to other
> substances. "It's not 100% thallium," Dr Henry said outside University
> College Hospital. He said the poison may have been radioactive thallium,
> which would now be difficult to trace.   Radioactive thallium degrades
> very rapidly so that by now we've missed the chance.  He said: "It may
> be too late. If it's a radioactive poison with a short half-life it may
> have gone.
>
> Radioactive thallium is used in hospitals but Dr Henry said it was not
> used in massive doses consistent with Mr Litvinenko's condition.
> "Poisons can be taken by mouth, they can be injected, they can be
> inhaled," he said. "In this case his symptoms are gastro-intestinal so
> the probability is that he has swallowed something that is poisoned.
> "Radioactive thallium adds a new dimension to this case. It means that
> his bone marrow is at very high risk and we have to see how his cells
> recover. It is very difficult to treat because you have to rely on the
> body's natural resilience."
>
>
> Fred Dawson
> Fwp_dawson at hotmail.com
>
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