AW: [ RadSafe ] When logic fails . . .

Fri Aug 31 14:40:46 CDT 2007

Stewart and Jack and other RADSAFErs interested,

Accidents involving chlorine are happening worldwide and usually hit only
local papers. I mean: real accidents, when chlorine is liberated, living
areas have to be evacuated etc. Not of this kind reported of "What could
have happened if......", which is a very favourite question of for instance
Greenpeace. ("What could have happened, if the nuclear reactor would not
have shut down automatically?") You are encouraged to perform a 10 seconds
Google Research on this topic. 

There are other, deeply frightening accidents really occurring like with
shipment of LPG - not so long ago, several hundreds (?) of people on a
campground in France have been killed because of such an accident. I would
not be surprised if similar accidents had happened in other places.

What has this to do with Radiation Protection? 

Quite a lot. I personally oppose the opinion of several people also on
RADSAFE, that a radiation hazard is something so incredibly unique and
dangerous and much more important than any other danger. So incredible sums
of money have to be spent for "preparedness". I do not want to go into
details, because the expenditures of the DHS should be known and critizism
has also been posted on RADSAFE. On the other side the number of victims and
people killed would for instance in the case of the (in)famous "dirty bomb"
be far below the number of victims of really occurring accidents - should I
remember you to Bophal, the dioxin scandal in Italy, accidents with
chlorine, LPG or should I go to the damage caused by natural causes, the
last big one on US soil being the Katharina hurrican?

People simply are not able - or do not want! - to compare risks. Driving
your car from home to work poses a far larger risk of being hurt (or even
killed) than a "dirty bomb". 

I appreciate the pointed comments, including the Mark Twain quotations. What
I am surprised is that there was no flaming until now to both of you. I
hardly dare to imagine what would have happened if I had written something
similar.... I would be willing to write similar comments on Austrian
politics, but I hardly believe that anyone would be interested in it or even
understand it......

Best regards,

Franz 

Franz Schoenhofer, PhD
MinRat i.R.
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Wien/Vienna
AUSTRIA

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag
von stewart farber
Gesendet: Freitag, 31. August 2007 20:17
An: Earley, Jack N
Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl
Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] When logic fails . . .

Jack,
Interesting post about how an opportunistic Senator  Reid will do ANYTHING 
to use a serious near-accident in shipping chlorine gas through Las Vegas, 
which had the potential to do real harm to many people,  to bolster their 
fear mongering about anything related to nuclear technologies.

Sen. Reid's actions made me think of Mark Twain and one of his wonderful 
quotes. I tried to find  this particular quote [which I could not locate the

exact quote] in which Twain said rather generally:

"I knew a man who was despondent and tried to commit suicide by shooting a 
bullet into his brain. After that this person wan't fit to do anything but 
become a US Senator"  [not exact quote, but gives the essence of the 
thought]

Maybe someone has the quote [or can find it] and send it to me. It would be 
much appreciated.

Two actual quotes from Twain I found [I prefer the second below]:
===============
"There is no distinctly native American criminal class save Congress."

Mark Twain

================

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are 
putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it."

Mark Twain

================

Hope everyone in the US has a good holiday weekend,

Stewart Farber, MS Public Health
Farber Technical Services
1285 Wood Ave.
Bridgeport, CT 06604
[203] 441-8433 [office]
[203] 522-2817 [cell]
email: radproject at sbcglobal.net
          radproject at aol.com

===============================

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Earley, Jack N" <Jack_N_Earley at RL.gov>
To: <radsafe at radlab.nl>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 12:40 PM
Subject: [ RadSafe ] When logic fails . . .

Sounds like Reid's just ignorant enough to run for president.

Report from LasVegasNow.com:

Reaction and the fallout from Wednesday's runaway railcar containing the
deadly chemical chlorine has come from just about everywhere. From
changes the city of Las Vegas will make, to how the Clark County HAZMAT
team could respond to a chlorine leak. The railcar coasted freely from
south of Blue Diamond to North Las Vegas.

The scariest thing for HAZMAT experts who looked at this incident is how
close the railcar came to a lot of people. The track took it right
behind the Mirage, Treasure Island, Fashion Show Mall, and Circus
Circus. The runaway car went as fast as 55 miles-per hour past the Clark
County Government Center and downtown Las Vegas. That angered the mayor
and left HAZMAT fire crews pondering what if.

The runaway railcar looked harmless enough as it sat in North Las Vegas
Wednesday. Union Pacific workers threw wood boards under the tires to
stop the car. But this sight angered Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman. "I
think it's outrageous," he said. Mayor Goodman says the railroad never
called his office about the incident. He first heard about it from new
reports.

In response, the mayor never wants to be blindsided by a runaway car
again. He says he will amend a city ordinance so the railroad must
notify authorities before chlorine or any toxic chemical will be shipped
through the city. "Cities need to be notified to be prepared to meet
these kinds of potential dangers with HAZMAT facilities," said Goodman.

The uncontrolled car sped past hundreds of thousands of people not only
downtown, but also on the Las Vegas Strip. A leak or crash could have
been disastrous in that stretch of track. 'What we try to do is prepare
ourselves," said Richard Brenner, Clark County HAZMAT Coordinator.

Clark County HAZMAT crews say they would have been ready because of
specialized training using replicas of the tank car's lid, which is
where most of the leaks happen when transporting chlorine. So the Clark
County crews have valve caps. With any leak near the large hotels,
HAZMAT coordinator Richard Brenner says he would have kept people inside
and had the ventilation system shut off because chlorine dissipates in
the wind. "It's going to try to escape. It's going to try to go up in
the environment. That is what we want it to do. We don't want to put
people out in that environment," said Brenner. Had there been a crash or
leak in the side of the tank, HAZMAT crews have a giant bag to throw
over the car and trap any chlorine gas.

Senator Harry Reid released the following statement: "The incident
involving a runaway railcar yesterday is just the latest example of the
serious danger that Yucca Mountain poses to Nevada and the rest of the
nation. Railways go directly through the heart of Las Vegas and many
other cities and towns across America. They travel past our schools, our
businesses and our homes. Fortunately, yesterday's railcar was stopped
without incident and without the release of the dangerous Coordinator
chemicals it was carrying. However, this incident brought to light the
very real threat we face if the DOE begins to transport nuclear waste to
Yucca Mountain. That is why I will continue to leverage my leadership
position in the Senate to ensure the dump is never built."

Jack Earley
Health Physicist
509.372.9532

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