AW: [ RadSafe ] Pettition fror removal in order? End of discussions.

Franz Schönhofer franz.schoenhofer at
Sun Dec 16 16:53:58 CST 2007

Mr. Whatever you want to be addressed,

Shouldn't the title of your answer read "Petition for removal in order"?
Still I do not understand the "in order", but this might be due to my
limited knowledge of the US-english language. 

You seem to have a lot of time to search the RADSAFE archives. I do not have
it and I simply refuse to answer to any one of that, so you have searched
this all in vain. Moreover - what do you want to prove?

You are still not able and refuse to acknowledge the fact that "pCi" as well
as "dpm" is a measure of the distintegration of atoms, therefore related by
a simple factor. Any geometry factors etc. have to be incorporated into the
cpm (counts per minute) recorded by a measurement instrument, which gives
the efficiency when related to the dpm.  

Forget your attempts to insult me - somebody like you cannot insult me. 

I will not answer and comment any more any of your mails.


Franz Schoenhofer, PhD
MinRat i.R.
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Wien/Vienna

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: radsafe-bounces at [mailto:radsafe-bounces at] Im Auftrag
von Geo>K0FF
Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. Dezember 2007 22:27
An: radsafe at
Betreff: [ RadSafe ] Pettition fror removal in order?

Franz, Here's an interesting quote from one of your posts: "Other lists have
the same problem of unappropriate messages, but they easily
overcome it by asking participants to forward any violations of the list
rules. Those violators are clearly shown on the list, banned from posting to
the list for a certain number of days. " and another "I have put forward a
solution for "punishment" of unappropriate messages,
used widely on the net, but there was no reaction. (I do not even remember
that it was distributed to the list.) I urge the list-owner to improve the
unsatisfactory situation by introducing
my proposal of making public unappropriate messages or if he would not be
able to further maintain the list in the proven way to consider a change of
the list owner. I have backed the present list-owner even in cases I was
negatively influenced, but now it is time for a radical change. " 

Good idea that, I'll start a pettion right now

Also to quote you:
"If there is no provocation there is no need
for a harsh answer!"
OK, so what's the deal?

And another post from you "RADSAFE is an incredibly valuable source on
radioactivity matters.
I have not only received valuable informations, but I think I could give a
lot of information to those asking for it. "
 well I'm still waiting for that one too. Most of your answers to questions
are basically, "go look it up yourself". 

Lastly, you have recently taken to making fun of my name. Shame on you.
Especially since you blast someone for doing the same thing in this quote:
"Sorry, John, but distorting the name "Mangano" to "Mango" is in my
perception unacceptable and an insult,"

George Dowell

Franz, these excerpts are from your posts over the last 2 years:>

Any attempt of intimitadion from you will only be answered by a good laugh. 

I usually take the messages of Mitchell Davis as something to laugh about.
Any comments on matters I criticized heavily
(K-40, Chemiluminescence etc.) recently are not welcome. 

What most of you post about this is shit. Yes, it is ---shit-----. 

Thank you, Mr. Mitchell Davis, for the good laugh 

This person seems to be intoxicated

so this sounds to me
like "Star Wars" science fiction

I suppose that 99 % of RADSAFErs are lured by the impressive titles of
"Committee", "European", "Agency", "Brussels" and would not recognize the
simple deliberately delusive misuse of these terms. 

So we see both
the attempt to pretend a status, which it has not and the fact, 

I - and many other RADSAFErs - seem to be of the opinion that this list is
not for providing sophisticated and extremely time consuming professional
expertise free of charge

Sometimes it seems very easy to offend persons on RADSAFE.....

The question of dis-equilibrium of uranium isotopes has been carefully
investigated decades ago and therefore needs not be reinvestigated. 

I wonder, why RADSAFErs do not use search engines.

Blaming LNT for
everything negative in radiation protection legislation and radiation risks
as perceived by the population is ridiculous

OK, now I am sure to be again called "uncooperative", "unhelpful",
"arrogant" or whatsoever is preferred by some single RADSAFErs.

Quite a funny question!

I am much more annoyed by the self announced experts distributing personal
opinions like being a universal law of nature. And they are not only found
in green movements, but sure as well within for instance RADSAFE

Dear Marcel,
I hope you will listen also to me. I would like to remind you that this is
the very first time that I send a message to you since you took over the
It is not the first time, not the second and not the third time that the
moderator of the list is asked for sanctions against me. On the other hand I
have received during the many years I am now on RADSAFE the requests of many
persons to stay on the list and to continue my critical remarks and they
assured me that they appreciated them. A former moderator has informed me
that she would never ban me, because my contributions "live up" the
Now we have the "loud minority", distributing all kind of personal attacks
using all kind of intended insults (such people cannot insult me!) as
mentioned in a recent mail to RADSAFE which has not been distributed yet"

US-RADSAFErs seem to simply shut their eyes to these facts and
adhere to the propaganda,

But Sec. 2, b is a slap into the face of scientists

that this "expert" is really ridiculous

my bad experience with your reliability I just wonder - and maybe other
RADSAFERs might wonder, how your contributions can be relied on - especially
since you name countries in a totally wrong way. How about UKS, USK, UVW....
for the United States of America??????

I use my time for whatever I want to and not according to your
"recommendations" and your queer preferences. To find, what you call a
"typo" is less than a 100th of a second, so it is worth a mentioning,
because you obviously were not able to detect it. I encourage everybody
reading my messages RADSAFE to point out not only my typos, but also other
grammatically wrong expressions, because I am of that rare kind of persons
who are interested to learn.

Sorry, to be that cruel, but in this case the person you describe was an

I just cannot understand that some people at RADSAFE blame me,>Please
 from sending any mails to me, you are one of the most
distainful persons on RADSAFE.

there nobody on RADSAFE who understands this very basic fact?

Reading a large number of recent messages to RADSAFE one could get the
impression that this is a list for climatologists. 

******************************I know that I am now absolutely cynical****
freaks , Do you actually believe that more than 0.1%
of the population will understand what a microgram is?, fraudulently, The
case seems to be hopeless
for the USA,freaks , insane, unnecessary, obsolete, crusade, self-serving , 

Please do not distribute such wrong information on RADSAFE, we are molested
enough by mass media and the relevant groups. 

my messages to RADSAFE are monitored 

This message is annoying. RADSAFE is an international list and though I
appreciated most of your previous posts I have to say that this is far
off-topic. Start a local debate about this nonsensicle message.

I was considering to deliver a similar message, but being monitored on
RADSAFE I have decided not to react on this particular topic, because it
might be classified as "arrogant" by "certain" non-European RADSAFErs, as it
has been many times before. (Deliberate wording.) 

Now I dare to ask you and RADSAFE, why so many people want to solve the most
complicated radio-analytical problems by using the most simple and
unreliable measurement devices. Those questions on RADSAFE have surfaced
ever since I joined RADSAFE - which must have been at least ten years ago:
Doses from mixtures of many different radionuclides to be measured by using
the most simple GM counters, the (extremely difficult) determination of
surface contamination by just taking any (any!) swab, determination of NORM
by using dose-rate-meters etc. etc. Shouldn't one use the appropriate
instruments - even if they are expensive - to give the answer to a
surveillance programme?

This wrong perception 

I intend to
comment on it on RADSAFE, but I am not sure, whether my comments on
radioactivity matters will be forwarded to the list. 

What is this good for? The anti-everything's keep scientists busy with tiny
details and the scientists obviously accept and engage in it instead of
attacking the basic flaws and falsifications!!!

You wrote "comments welcome", but what to comment on?

"Here we go again...", wondering what
the use of lamenting on RADSAFE would be and wondering whether anybody had
sent any comments to the Asbury Park Press instead. Additionally I
questioned (and still do) the significance of the Asbury Park Press. Both
started a kind of unusual modest flaming, in which my real message was not
commented, but ignored. 

Unfortunately it is true, that some people repeat the content of postings
and send it as their own ideas. Especially some "celebrities" do it. 

It seems to be a political question, where the USA wants to demonstrate its
independence of the "rest of the world"....

I sincerely believe that the USA which has been able to bring several people
to the moon and - more important - to bring them back, will also be able to
convert their radiation related units from conventional to SI units!

I do not know, where you get your numbers from, 

Thanks again, for ridiculing the obviously raging war among hardliners.....

I explained in my most recent message to RADSAFE, which might be distributed
after a delay of up to several days due to monitoring of my messages on this

Sorry, John, but distorting the name "Mangano" to "Mango" is in my
perception unacceptable and an insult,

His ridiculous
message was distributed at RADSAFE without any problem

George (?),
Thank you for distributing on RADSAFE very basic textbook facts - we often
need the references for it. Though I have to say that I prefer to discuss on
RADSAFE advanced topics. 

What Mr KOFF (Synebrychoff, finnish brewery) was distributing was only
bluntant nonsense

We have a saying in German, "Attack is the best defense", 

That he is not able to understand this is his problem as well as
he resorts to unfounded and heavy personal attacks.

I hardly dare to write at RADSAFE any more, that I disagree - not even
respectfully, because of a rather funny reaction of one single participant
in the list, when I respectfully disagreed on a subject, but:

I personally oppose the opinion of several people also on
RADSAFE, that a radiation hazard is something so incredibly unique and
dangerous and much more important than any other danger.

A "friendly" person on RADSAFE commented not so long ago, that I only accept
things coming from Austria.

I add a message to Marcel - which I will repeat for any further comment: I
do not understand, why my messages are monitored 

If there is no provocation there is no need
for a harsh answer!

I thought that "Nature" was a serious scientific journal and its readers
reasonable human beings. Well, I erred terribly, it is worse than the worst
gutter paper.   

The recent - and not announced - monitoring mode of RADSAFE has caused a few
persons to protest it - surprisingly including at least one person who has
been one of the subjects for fierce controversy. This monitoring mode
results in delays of messages up to a few days. This is not acceptable for a
discussion forum - in my opinion - and what is your opinion? 

Other lists have the same problem of unappropriate messages, but they easily
overcome it by asking participants to forward any violations of the list
rules. Those violators are clearly shown on the list, banned from posting to
the list for a certain number of days. 

I have put forward a solution for "punishment" of unappropriate messages,
used widely on the net, but there was no reaction. (I do not even remember
that it was distributed to the list.)

I do not blame Marcel for introducing monitoring - I am willing to take a
tiny part of this decision by blaming myself for this and if you are honest
you will blame yourself as well, like quite a few others should do. 

What Mr KOFF (Synebrychoff, finnish brewery) was distributing was only
bluntant nonsense. DPM of a source is a fixed value as well as pCi/source or
Bq/source and independent of whatever geometry. If he wants to have some
other definitions, he might declare them as "KOFF"-units and seek
international acknowledgement. 

These findings might not in any way apply to the claims of other RADSAFErs
and certainly not those of the new radiation protection specialist KOFF

Furthermore I would have hoped that Mr. KOFF knows the
difference between
dpm (disintegrations per minute) and cpm (counts per minute). Obviously he
does not. 

Is there anybody out there who knows this person, who wants to proof that
all those excellent experts on RADSAFE are idiots?????

Stop distributing such messages. I would urge Marcel not to monitor your
messages, but to keep an eye on them especially regarding the above third

Earlier contributions of Geo>KOFF to RADSAFE made me shake my head, but
because of my experience with being flamed on RADSAFE when I previously
questioned someones qualifications I did not comment

Gary, others and especially Marcel,

This posting is in my opinion absolutely unacceptable. It is in line with
the Nazi concept of "unworthy life" and euthanasia. Concepts like "market
driven" are a slap into the face of anybody faced with such questions. Our
elders should not be subjected to the "brutal truth" which beats an "old

With all due respect: Don't you think that forwarding this unexcusable
nonsense to whom ever 

This message is a really classic example of the Greens' strategy of twisting
facts, misinterpreting statistics, ignoring facts which do not fit their
preconceived ideas, use bombastic titles like "institute" or "consultants

ad infinitum




You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list

Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the
RadSafe rules. These can be found at:

For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit:

More information about the RadSafe mailing list