[ RadSafe ] Please Critique This Reply by Rosalie Bertell

Wed Feb 21 18:34:58 CST 2007

Jeri

 I agree with you. As an author of ICRP Pub. 66, I know we spent a "lot of 
time" insuring that we were not wrong just because we didn't agree with the 
old model, which was not much "beyond" what was in ICRP Pub. 2,

John R Johnson, PhD; Franz; this is allowed, and preferred, in Canada:-).

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anderson, Jeri L. (CDC/NIOSH/DSHEFS)" <jva2 at cdc.gov>
To: <rosaliebertell at greynun.org>; <m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl>; "Roger 
Helbig" <rhelbig at california.com>
Cc: "radsafelist" <radsafe at radlab.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:56 PM
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Please Critique This Reply by Rosalie Bertell

> Dr. Bertell,
>
> Schlein et al. are referring to ICRP 1954 (1988).  However, ICRP
> Publication 54, pg. 7 states that the model being referred to is the one
> described in ICRP Publication 30 (1979).  ICRP Publication 30 used the
> model published in 1966 by the ICRP's Task Group on Lung Dynamics
> (TGLD).  According to ICRP Publication 66 (1994, pg. 4), the publication
> of the 1966 model stimulated extensive research on the deposition,
> retention, clearance, and translocation of inhaled aerosols to other
> tissues in the body of experimental animals and humans.  The model was
> found wanting in many cases, one case being that research on deposition
> of inhaled aerosols had extended the particle size range beyond that of
> the 1966 model.  Therefore, in 1984, the ICRP created a special Task
> Group to propose either revisions to the 1966 model or propose a new
> model.  The Task Group opted to improve the ICRP 30 model, and so you
> get the ICRP 66 model which can now handle aerosol particles in the
> submicrometer range (thanks to 25 or so years of research).
>
> The 1984 decision to revise/update the model had nothing to do with the
> 1991 Gulf War.
>
> J.L. Anderson
> NIOSH
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On
> Behalf Of Rosalie Bertell
> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 11:57 AM
> To: m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl; 'Roger Helbig'
> Cc: 'radsafelist'
> Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Please Critique This Reply by Rosalie Bertell
>
> Dear Mr. Marcel Schouwenburg,
>
>
>
> Thank you for this reference. My source was the Handbook of Health
> Physics and Radiological Health, Third Edition, Edited by Bernard
> Schleien, Lester A. Slaback, Jr. and Brian Kent Birky, Lippincott
> Williams and Wilkins, Philadelphia,1998.  on page 12-13, it is stated:
>
> "The model is intended for use with aerosol with AMADs between 0.2 and
> 10 micron and with geometric standard deviation less than 4.5.
> Provisional estimates of deposition further extending the size range are
> given in the dashed lines of Figure12.3. ... The model does not apply to
> aerosols with AMADs less than 01. micron. (Courtesy ICRP from
> Publication  54, 1987)".
>
>
>
> Could you please explain why ICRP 66 (1994) changed this limit. This
> should have been promulgated by 1998. My understanding is that when
> particles are of AMADs less than 0.1 micron they behave like a gas. They
> freely enter through the cell walls, the lung-blood barrier, the blood
> brain barrier and cross the placenta. The other major problem is that
> are too small for the kidney filter. Was this decision made after the
> first Gulf War for some reason?
>
>
>
> Dr. Rosalie Bertell
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcel Schouwenburg [mailto:m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:12 AM
> To: Roger Helbig
> Cc: radsafelist; Rosalie Bertell
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Please Critique This Reply by Rosalie Bertell
>
>
>
> Daer Mrs/Ms Bertelli,
>
> The ICRP Respiratory Tract Model can be apllied to particles with a
> diameter < 0.1 micron. For this purpose the model describes a.o.
> fractional deposition in various compartments of the respiratory tract
> for particles down to a an Activity Median Thermodynamic Diameter, AMTD
> (to be used in stead of the AMAD because of the small particle size) of
> 0.001 micron. So, the model can also be used for particles in a DU
> aerosol with a size between
> 0.001 micron and 0.1 micron.
>
> Reference
> ICRP-66 (1994), Human Respiratory Tract Model for Radiological
> Protection.
> ICRP-Publication 66, Annals of the ICRP 24(1-3), Elsevier Science LTD,
> Oxford, pp. 49-54.
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Marcel Schouwenburg
> Head / Lecturer Training Centre Delft, Health Physicist, expert level 2
> RadSafe Moderator & Listowner National Centre for Radiation Protection
> (Dutch abbr. NCSV)
>
> Delft University of Technology
> Faculty of Applied Sciences / Reactor Institute Delft Mekelweg 15 NL -
> 2629 JB  DELFT The Netherlands
> T: +31 (0)15 27 86575
> F: +31 (0)15 27 81717
> M: +31 (0)6 419 83 145
> E: m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl <mailto:m.schouwenburg at iri.tudelft.nl>
>
>
>
> Roger Helbig wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rosalie Bertell"  <mailto:rosaliebertell at greynun.org>
> <rosaliebertell at greynun.org>
> To: "'Roger Helbig'"  <mailto:rhelbig at california.com>
> <rhelbig at california.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 8:45 AM
> Subject: RE: Nichols Publish the Truth??????
>
>
> Dear Roger,
>
> My guess is that you are sending the estimates by the physicists who use
> the ICRP Respiratory Model methodology. This is only valid down to
> particles of aerodynamic diameter of
> 0.1 micro. DU aerosol has been shown to coalesce into particles of
> aerodynamic diameter between 0.001 and 0.1 micron (nano particles).
> Therefore they miss some of the most serious effects.
>
> Dr. Rosalie Bertell.
>
>
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