From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 1 09:51:06 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 07:51:06 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Message-ID: <45E685EA.18418.28340D@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Garrett wants MPs to reveal stance on nuclear plant location Radioactive leak at Czech plant Thai Min: No Delay In Pwr Plant Bidding; Mulls Nuclear Plant Lawmakers tour landfill for low-level nuclear waste TEPCO finds more nuclear lapses, no shutdowns now Agreement to Provide Four AP1000 Nuclear Power Plants in China Diablo gets assessment timeline OSHA Seeks Information From Stakeholders on Ionizing Radiation ------------------------------------------------- Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Pioneer Sun News Mar 1 - You may not have heard too much lately about that planned nuclear power plant in southern Levy County S but that doesn't mean plans have stopped. Two representatives from Progress Energy spoke to the Williston Rotary Club on Tuesday and brought the group up to date on work being undertaken to possibly get the power plant built. "We haven't made a final decision to build," said Gail T. Simpson, manager of Public Policy and Constituency Relations for the company. "We haven't purchased the land. There are still more tests to be done." Rosemary Fagler, Community Relations Manager for the region, described the needs of consumers and how growth has affected the company. "New homes are so much larger now," she said, noting that more space required more energy to heat and cool, there were more appliances today than in earlier years and computers were in most homes, many running on a 24/7 basis. Simpson pointed out that within 50 years the "population is expected to double in the state of Florida." The speakers commented that Progress Energy has to start thinking about that now, even though its needs might be 10 or 20 years away. Simpson answered the question of why Levy was chosen. "There are limited locations in Florida. A lot of hot water is required, and there are very few places that using that much water would not have an impact." The Levy County site would draw water from the Gulf. "We also needed a couple thousand acres in a rural area. "The Levy County location is a preferred site for a lot of technical and other reasons." The company still has a lot of processes and permitting to go through, including the state, the Public Service Commission, the Department of Environmental Protection and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. "We'll file an application with the NRC by the end of next year," Simpson said. "They require all sorts of information," including weather data and soil borings. Fagler spoke about the economic benefits, including property taxes, 1,000 to 2,000 construction jobs, 500 permanent jobs and increased local investment. She also said the plant would be environmentally friendly with no greenhouse gas emissions. When asked by the Pioneer whether they would ask for tax breaks, which many industries do as they move into an area, they said things like that hadn't been considered as yet. "We hope to have a good relationship with the county," Simpson added. ----------------- Garrett wants MPs to reveal stance on nuclear plant location Opposition environment spokesman Peter Garrett has tried to make all Lower House MPs reveal whether they would be happy to have a nuclear power plant built in their electorates. The Opposition has been pressuring the Government to say where nuclear reactors might be located if a nuclear industry is developed in Australia. Many Coalition MPs have already said they would not want a nuclear plant in their seat. Mr Garrett attempted to have all MPs explain their stance on the issue in Parliament. "[I] noted the stated opposition outside the house of a growing number of members to the location of a nuclear power plant in their electorate, [I'm] providing all members with an opportunity to come into the house and declare their opposition to the location of a nuclear power plant in their electorates," he said. Mr Garrett's motion was defeated by the Government. Meanwhile the Greens want the owners of any future nuclear power stations in Australia to be legally responsible for any damage that might be caused to private property in Australia. Greens Senator Christine Milne says there is a standard nuclear exclusion clause in every insurance policy, which leaves home owners liable for any costs resulting from an accident at a nuclear facility. Senator Milne is calling on the Government to back a Greens' Bill to force a change. The Greens will be moving a private member's Bill which will make it very clear that nuclear facilities bear absolute liability for any damage to property surrounding that facility," she said. "Now if the Government doesn't support that then it will be leaving all Australians vulnerable." ------------------- Radioactive leak at Czech plant Prague - About 2 000 liters of radioactive water leaked at the Czech Republic's Temelin nuclear power plant, but did not contaminate the environment, an official said on Thursday. The water leaked early on Tuesday at the plant's first unit, which is currently shut down for fuel replacement, plant spokesperson Milan Nebesar said. "The water went to a special tank through a special sewage system and none of it leaked to the environment," Nebesar said. He said that an open valve caused the leak. The plant's second unit was running at full capacity. Nebesar said the plant's management has informed Czech and Austrian authorities about the leak. The Czech Republic and Austria have been at odds for years over the plant. Environmentalists in Austria have demanded that the plant, located only 60 kilometres from the Austrian border, be closed because of security concerns. Czech authorities insist it is safe. Construction of the plant's two 1 000-megawatt units, based on Russian designs, started in the 1980s. The reactors were later upgraded with US technology, but have remained controversial because of frequent malfunctions. ---------------- Thai Min: No Delay In Pwr Plant Bidding; Mulls Nuclear Plant BANGKOK -(Dow Jones)- Thai Energy Minister Piyasvasti Amranand reiterated Thursday that bidding for new power plants will go ahead in April as planned. The Thai government plans to open bidding for new power plants to increase the country's installed capacity by 3,000-4,000 megawatts from the current 26,430 MW. The new power plants will come onstream in 2011-2013 to meet the country's increasing power demand. The ministry will also look into the possibility of building a nuclear power plant to meet Thailand's electricity demand, which is expected to increase around 5%-6% in the next decade, Piyasvasti told a group of foreign reporters. The ministry will consider all types of fuel for the power plants that are up for bidding to minimize dependency on natural gas, Piyasvasti said. Natural gas accounts for nearly 70% of fuel for power generation in Thailand. "We can't rule out any specific type of fuel. We have to consider all available options including natural gas, coal, hydropower and nuclear energy," Piyasvasti said. "There will be no requirement on sources of fuel. Participants in the new bidding can propose to build power plants by using any fuel they prefer," he said. Piyasvasti had earlier said he would like to see coal-fired power plants account for 40% of new capacity to reduce dependency on natural gas. His softer stance comes after villagers from the western province of Prachuab Khiri Khan protested against coal-fired power plants and nuclear power plants in their province. The villagers' protest also led to the cancellation of a public hearing earlier this month on the Energy Ministry's draft version of a 15-year power development plan. In March, the Energy Ministry will also open a separate bidding for small power plants or alternative fuel power plants, for a total installed capacity of 1,700 MW, said Piyasvasti. Nuclear Power Plant Likely To Start In 13-15 Yrs Thailand needs to consider building a nuclear power plant, given the limited supply of conventional fuel such as natural gas and oil, Piyasvasti said. A feasibility study on the proposed nuclear power plant will be undertaken soon, he said, adding that the plant could come onstream "maybe in the next 13- 15 years," he added. Thailand had planned to build a nuclear power plant in the mid-1970s in the eastern province of Chonburi, but abandoned the plan when it discovered natural gas in the Gulf of Thailand and the Andaman Sea. Even though the investment cost for building a nuclear power plant would be three to four times higher than a conventional power plant, the fuel cost would be a lot cheaper than for other fuel types, said Piyasvasti. "We want to bring the data (on the nuclear power plant) to the public and debate rationally, not emotionally," said Kurujit Nakornthap, deputy permanent secretary of the Energy Ministry. Under the draft power development plan for 2007-2021, nuclear power plants with a combined capacity of 5,000 megawatts would be built to supply electricity starting 2020 and 2021. Other new power plants would use coal and natural gas as fuel. ------------------- Lawmakers tour landfill for low-level nuclear waste SNELLING (Charleston Post & Courier) Mar 1 - About 60 people, including more than a dozen lawmakers, learned how low-level nuclear waste is disposed of during a tour Wednesday at a low-level radioactive waste landfill in rural Barnwell County. Rep. Joan Brady was surprised to learn the trenches where the waste is buried aren't very deep so they don't interfere with the underground aquifers. "It's very valuable to see what the trenches look like. They're very different than what I thought," said Brady, R-Columbia. The lawmaker and others wanted to see the 235-acre Chem-Nuclear site firsthand as legislators decide whether to change a decision to close the landfill next year to all but three states: South Carolina, New Jersey and Connecticut. The 36-year-old landfill currently accepts nuclear power plant debris and items such as radioactive hospital clothing from 34 states, where it is buried, said Michael Benjamin, a manager at Chem-Nuclear. A bill by Rep. Billy Witherspoon, R-Conway, would allow the facility to continue accepting the material through 2023, but some environmentalists oppose the plan. Witherspoon leads the House agriculture and environmental committee that will consider the bill. EnergySolutions, a Utah-based company that operates the site owned by the state, invited an 18-member House committee to tour the facility Wednesday. At first, the company denied a request by an environmentalist to attend, which raised questions about whether the trip violated the state's Freedom of Information Act. Eventually it was opened to the public. About 60 people, including 15 of the 18 legislators on Witherspoon's committee, toured the site. Rep. Laurie Funderburk, D-Camden, said she was surprised by how much room was left at the landfill. She also found it interesting only grass could be planted on top of trenches because tree roots could be a problem growing into where the waste is buried. The site, among the county's biggest employers, is financially important to the local economy and surrounding schools. The site's contributions make up roughly 10 percent of Barnwell County's overall budget, and supply $1 million split among the county's three school districts. "If it closes, we're in deep trouble," said County Council member Lowell Jowers. "This is a vital part of this county." --------------- TEPCO finds more nuclear lapses, no shutdowns now TOKYO, March 1 (Reuters) - Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) has found more past data falsifications at its nuclear power plants in addition to nearly 200 improper modifications of technical data discovered in January, the utility and the government said on Thursday. But the latest discoveries are unlikely, at least for now, to spark a scandal like one in 2003 that closed all of TEPCO's nuclear power generators for inspections, the government and industry analysts said. An official with the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, a unit of Japan's Trade Ministry, who was asked if the government would order TEPCO to shut any nuclear units, said it had given the company a month to finish going over its records. "The government has told (TEPCO) to continue to inspect past records of all of its power generation facilities for such inappropriate matters as data falsifications, and to report results by the end of March," he said. "Then we will make the final decision. But the reported falsifications are not happening now and they do not threaten operational safety. Many of them are old and are past the statute of limitations." TEPCO said it had found lapses at six of its 17 nuclear units as well as other thermal and hydro power plants. The utility reported them to the government on Thursday. TEPCO had failed to report unplanned shutdowns at its Kashiwazaki Kariwa nuclear plant, the world's largest, in 1992 and its Fukushima Daini plant in 1985, even though utilities are required to report such closures to regulators immediately, the Safety Agency official said. Both plants are located in northern Japan. TEPCO said in January it had discovered 199 improper data modifications made from 1977 to 2002 at three nuclear power plants and two thermal plants. A spate of recent discoveries of data modifications have spurred public concern that Tokyo may again face the risk of a blackout as it did after TEPCO's cover-ups of safety blunders in 2003. However, industry analyst Shigeki Matsumoto with Nomura Securities Co. said the scandal was unlikely to repeat itself. "The possibility is not entirely zero, as the complete results are due in March and something may come out. But chances are slim," he said. "Previously, TEPCO covered up cracks at nuclear reactor cores. But the most recent inspections have not found such a bad practice, which can threaten operational safety," he said. TEPCO Managing Director Ichiro Takekuro, who also serves as chief nuclear officer, told a news briefing the utility had checked substantial parts of its facilities. TEPCO runs 17 of Japan's 55 nuclear power units, providing Tokyo and the surrounding area with electricity equivalent to the entire demand of Britain. In 2002, the utility admitted it had falsified nuclear safety data for more than a decade. Public objections and the government instructions forced TEPCO to shut each unit for inspections. All of them were briefly shut at the same time in 2003, prompting TEPCO to ask the public to save electricity in order to avoid a blackout. ---------------- Westinghouse, Shaw Group Ink Framework Agreement to Provide Four AP1000 Nuclear Power Plants in China BEIJING, March 1 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Westinghouse Electric Company and its consortium partner, The Shaw Group, Inc., (NYSE: SGR - News) announced they have successfully negotiated a framework agreement with China's State Nuclear Power Technology Company (SNPTC) to provide four AP1000 nuclear power plants in China. For the media and press, a formal signing of the framework agreement was held on March 1 with senior Chinese government officials in attendance. The framework agreement confirms the basic requirements and obligations of all parties involved and includes significant funding for long lead materials and early engineering. The agreement follows the selection of the Westinghouse Consortium as the technology partner for the next generation of nuclear power plants that was announced 10 weeks ago. The selection of the Westinghouse consortium by SNPTC was the result of an extensive and rigorous two-year competitive bidding process. Final contracts for the four plants, to be constructed at the Sanmen and Haiyang sites, will be finalized by mid year. Construction is expected to begin in 2009, with the first plant becoming operational in 2013. Jim Fici, Sr. Vice President of Customer Relations and Sales, signed the framework agreement for Westinghouse: "This is a very significant milestone in the process that will result in the introduction of the Westinghouse AP1000 to China," he said. "More importantly, reaching the framework agreement in such a timely manner demonstrates the positive and growing relationships between SNPTC and the Westinghouse consortium. It also proves the commitment of all parties to bring these first four plants on line in a timely and efficient manner." Westinghouse, a group company of Toshiba Corporation, is the world's pioneering nuclear power company and is a leading supplier of nuclear plant products and technologies to utilities throughout the world. Westinghouse, with Shaw, supplied the world's first PWR in 1957 in Shippingport, Pa. Today, Westinghouse technology is the basis for approximately one-half of the world's operating nuclear plants, including 60 percent of those in the United States. ------------------ Diablo gets assessment timeline Responding to a federal court order, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission on Feb. 26 ordered its staff to prepare a new assessment of the potential environmental effects of a terrorist attack on Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant's dry cask storage project. The staff has 90 days to complete the study, which will explore the likelihood of such an attack and possible consequences. The order comes as a result of a lawsuit filed by watchdog group San Luis Obispo Mothers for Peace. In the lawsuit, the group said the NRC hadn't taken an attack into account when it licensed power company PG&E to construct the casks, which will hold Diablo Canyon's spent fuel rods. The plant's current in-plant storage facilities are nearing capacity. "We will be watching to be sure the resulting study is done thoroughly and in accordance with federal law and the Ninth Circuit Court ruling," Mothers for Peace spokeswoman Jane Swanson said in a statement. ------------ OSHA Seeks Information From Stakeholders on Ionizing Radiation WASHINGTON, Feb. 27 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is inviting the public to participate in informal stakeholder meetings on Occupational Exposure to Ionizing Radiation. These planned meetings will continue OSHA's information collection efforts and will add to the information obtained in the Request for Information published on May 5, 2005. "These meetings are an exceptional opportunity for us to hear from stakeholders and exchange data, share ideas and varying points of view," said Assistant Secretary of Labor for OSHA, Edwin G. Foulke, Jr. The first stakeholder meeting will be held March 16, 2007, at the Department of Labor, Frances Perkins Building, 200 Constitution Ave. N.W., Washington, D.C. 20210. The meeting will cover the uses of ionizing radiation in the healing arts (including medicine, dentistry, chiropractor service, veterinary service, etc.). The second stakeholder meeting will be held in conjunction with the American Society for Nondestructive Testing's Annual Research Symposium in Orlando, Fla., March 26, 2007. All meetings will begin at 8:30 a.m. and will end by 4:30 p.m. OSHA requests the public be prepared to discuss the following issues regarding occupational exposure to ionizing radiation in their industry/occupation: uses of ionizing radiation, controls utilized to minimize exposure and available exposure data and training. Those who wish to participate in a stakeholder meeting must notify OSHA by e-mail at navas.liset at dol.gov, FAX at (202) 693-1678, or by mail to Liset Navas, Directorate of Standards and Guidance, Occupational Safety and Health Administration, U.S. Department of Labor, Room N3718, 200 Constitution Ave., N.W., Washington, D.C. 20210 no later than March 9, 2007. Under the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970, employers are responsible for providing a safe and healthful workplace for their employees. OSHA's role is to assure the safety and health of America's working men and women by setting and enforcing standards; providing training, outreach, and education; establishing partnerships; and encouraging continual process improvement in workplace safety and health. For more information, visit http://www.osha.gov/. This news release text is on the Internet at http://www.osha.gov/. Information on this release will be made available to sensory impaired individuals upon request. Voice phone: (202) 693-1999. ------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From frantaj at aecl.ca Thu Mar 1 10:23:01 2007 From: frantaj at aecl.ca (Franta, Jaroslav) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 11:23:01 -0500 Subject: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nu clear plant planning moves ahead Message-ID: <0F8BD87EE693D411A1A500508BAC86F70B4F5B0B@sps13.aecl.ca> I can see the great newsworthiness of this story..... "About 2 000 liters of radioactive water leaked.... to a special tank through a special sewage system.... an open valve caused the leak." But I think that even with my amateurish journalistic talents, I could easily top that: "Tens of thousands of liters of radioactive water leaked for days.... from the reactor to a special steam generator through a special piping system.... an open pipe caused the leak." Jaro ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl]On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: March 1, 2007 10:51 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl; powernet at hps1.org Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Index: Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Garrett wants MPs to reveal stance on nuclear plant location Radioactive leak at Czech plant Thai Min: No Delay In Pwr Plant Bidding; Mulls Nuclear Plant Lawmakers tour landfill for low-level nuclear waste TEPCO finds more nuclear lapses, no shutdowns now Agreement to Provide Four AP1000 Nuclear Power Plants in China Diablo gets assessment timeline OSHA Seeks Information From Stakeholders on Ionizing Radiation ------------------------------------------------- Radioactive leak at Czech plant Prague - About 2 000 liters of radioactive water leaked at the Czech Republic's Temelin nuclear power plant, but did not contaminate the environment, an official said on Thursday. The water leaked early on Tuesday at the plant's first unit, which is currently shut down for fuel replacement, plant spokesperson Milan Nebesar said. "The water went to a special tank through a special sewage system and none of it leaked to the environment," Nebesar said. He said that an open valve caused the leak. The plant's second unit was running at full capacity. Nebesar said the plant's management has informed Czech and Austrian authorities about the leak. The Czech Republic and Austria have been at odds for years over the plant. Environmentalists in Austria have demanded that the plant, located only 60 kilometres from the Austrian border, be closed because of security concerns. Czech authorities insist it is safe. Construction of the plant's two 1 000-megawatt units, based on Russian designs, started in the 1980s. The reactors were later upgraded with US technology, but have remained controversial because of frequent malfunctions. ---------------- CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVILEGED INFORMATION NOTICE This e-mail, and any attachments, may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright, or exempt from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, disclosure, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or reliance on this information may be unlawful and is strictly prohibited. AVIS D'INFORMATION CONFIDENTIELLE ET PRIVIL?GI?E Le pr?sent courriel, et toute pi?ce jointe, peut contenir de l'information qui est confidentielle, r?gie par les droits d'auteur, ou interdite de divulgation. Tout examen, divulgation, retransmission, diffusion ou autres utilisations non autoris?es de l'information ou d?pendance non autoris?e envers celle-ci peut ?tre ill?gale et est strictement interdite. From maurysis at peoplepc.com Thu Mar 1 13:38:09 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 13:38:09 -0600 Subject: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nu clear plant planning moves ahead In-Reply-To: <0F8BD87EE693D411A1A500508BAC86F70B4F5B0B@sps13.aecl.ca> References: <0F8BD87EE693D411A1A500508BAC86F70B4F5B0B@sps13.aecl.ca> Message-ID: <45E72BA1.7090604@peoplepc.com> Awwright young man, you had better watch these embellishments or the atomic tooth fairy will smite thee with a blinding blue flash!!!! And they might impound thy keyboard! Your behavior is being surveiled .... Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) ===================== Franta, Jaroslav wrote: >I can see the great newsworthiness of this story..... > >"About 2 000 liters of radioactive water leaked.... to a special tank >through a special sewage system.... an open valve caused the leak." > >But I think that even with my amateurish journalistic talents, I could >easily top that: > >"Tens of thousands of liters of radioactive water leaked for days.... from >the reactor to a special steam > -----------------snipped------------- From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Thu Mar 1 16:00:22 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 14:00:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <1919271803-1172354824-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1400038289-@bxe056-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <431142.26825.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Of course, there is no indication that this equipment will prevent terrorist from blowing up aircraft. They read the news and are very adaptable. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > ALARA means what it says, as low as reasonably > achievable. This does not mean zero dose. Evaluation > of the task and supportt for or against the dose > determines if the dose to be received is warranted. > I suspect that a majority of travelers worldwide > would accept this small dose for the peace and mind > of knowing that the risk of a catastrophy has been > reduced, even if the risk has not been entirely > eliminated. > > Sandy Perle > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: Franz Sch?nhofer > Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:38:27 > To:,"'stewart farber'" > , > Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > ALARA!!!!!! > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > MinRat i.R. > Habicherg. 31/7 > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > AUSTRIA > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] > Gesendet: Samstag, 24. Februar 2007 22:29 > An: Franz Sch?nhofer; 'stewart farber'; > radsafe at radlab.nl > Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > ALARA is alive and well in USA, to an extreme > extent. > > In this case, the extra dose, estimated to be 10 > microrem is almost > non-radiation dose. The privacy aspects is an issue > and has to be evaluated > against the risks trying to be mitigated. The > article and Stu,s 0comments > are about the dose received, the doctor's comments, > and had nothing to do > about the image resolution considerations. > > I would be surprised that anyone considers this 10 > microrem dose to be an > issue. > > Sandy Perle > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 1 16:18:48 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 14:18:48 -0800 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <431142.26825.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB58E@gdses.corp.gds.com> John, Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in anything except taxes and death! However, where technology can offer enhanced security and peace of mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as appropriate for the circumstances at hand. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John Jacobus Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 2:00 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Of course, there is no indication that this equipment will prevent terrorist from blowing up aircraft. They read the news and are very adaptable. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > ALARA means what it says, as low as reasonably > achievable. This does not mean zero dose. Evaluation > of the task and supportt for or against the dose > determines if the dose to be received is warranted. > I suspect that a majority of travelers worldwide > would accept this small dose for the peace and mind > of knowing that the risk of a catastrophy has been > reduced, even if the risk has not been entirely > eliminated. > > Sandy Perle > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: Franz Sch?nhofer > Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:38:27 > To:,"'stewart farber'" > , > Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > ALARA!!!!!! > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > MinRat i.R. > Habicherg. 31/7 > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > AUSTRIA > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] > Gesendet: Samstag, 24. Februar 2007 22:29 > An: Franz Sch?nhofer; 'stewart farber'; > radsafe at radlab.nl > Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > ALARA is alive and well in USA, to an extreme > extent. > > In this case, the extra dose, estimated to be 10 > microrem is almost > non-radiation dose. The privacy aspects is an issue > and has to be evaluated > against the risks trying to be mitigated. The > article and Stu,s 0comments > are about the dose received, the doctor's comments, > and had nothing to do > about the image resolution considerations. > > I would be surprised that anyone considers this 10 > microrem dose to be an > issue. > > Sandy Perle > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jsalsman at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 17:34:30 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 15:34:30 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] ethics in research question In-Reply-To: <45E61A82.8000500@peoplepc.com> References: <45E61A82.8000500@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: On 2/28/07, Maury Siskel wrote: > ... the attribution to Dr. Kang is correct. But that remains far from a > complete view of the situation. Follows several quotes regarding other > studies (preponderance of evidence?) of this subject. The point is that the earlier studies all had lower rates, meaning that the rates are increasing. I think they are increasing way too rapidly. Here's a graph that explains it: http://www.bovik.org/du/gwbd.jpg Complaining about this problem and trying to get it fixed helps our troops, their families, and our ability to recruit. Tungsten might cause cancer, but it doesn't damage gonocytes, which are, after all, our future. Sincerely, James Salsman From sjd at swcp.com Thu Mar 1 20:39:38 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 19:39:38 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] ethics in research question In-Reply-To: References: <45E61A82.8000500@peoplepc.com> <45E61A82.8000500@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070301193627.009f94f0@mail.swcp.com> March 1, 2007 This graph proves nothing. It's so silly and so ill-supported it should be an embarrassment.. According to Salsman and bovik.org, the graph is based on the 2001 Kang et al. paper in the Annals of Epidemiology about pregnancy outcomes among Gulf War vets. I have already discussed that paper on RADSAFE and it does nothing to substantiate any of Salsman's claims. The graph is also based on the Gulf War Review question and answer article that I discussed yesterday on RADSAFE. You will recall that the Q&A article had a footnote that mentioned some research by Kang wherein he claimed to have found that the rate of birth defects in children of Gulf War deployed male veterans was 2.2 times the rate of birth defects in non-deployed GW vets. According to this 2003 Gulf War Review Q&A, Kang's research was undergoing peer review. In plain English, this graph doesn't explain anything --- at least not about the incidence rate of birth defects. It might explain something about James Salsman's scholarship, however I will refrain from making any comments on *that*. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 03:34 PM 3/1/07 -0800, James Salsman wrote: >On 2/28/07, Maury Siskel wrote: > >>... the attribution to Dr. Kang is correct. But that remains far from a >>complete view of the situation. Follows several quotes regarding other >>studies (preponderance of evidence?) of this subject. > >The point is that the earlier studies all had lower rates, meaning that >the rates are increasing. I think they are increasing way too rapidly. > >Here's a graph that explains it: > http://www.bovik.org/du/gwbd.jpg > >Complaining about this problem and trying to get it fixed helps our >troops, their families, and our ability to recruit. Tungsten might cause >cancer, but it doesn't damage gonocytes, which are, after all, our future. > >Sincerely, >James Salsman From Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk Fri Mar 2 05:54:51 2007 From: Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk (Dawson, Fred Mr) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:54:51 -0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] 'Safety stand-down' ordered for US Navy's submarine force Message-ID: Safety stand-down ordered for Navy's submarine force http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=41741&archive=true http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=117428&ran=182798&tref=p o The Navy on Thursday ordered a safety review of its entire submarine force worldwide because of recent accidents at sea involving Norfolk-based subs. Fred Dawson From jsalsman at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 07:30:55 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:30:55 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] ethics in research question Message-ID: Steve, Thank you for your comments. What does your scholarship tell you the 95% confidence interval is? If you look at the way the Araneta and earlier papers developed over time, it closely follows the data being reported out of Basra: http://www.bovik.org/du/basrah.gif -- earlier message -- From: Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com This graph proves nothing. It's so silly and so ill-supported it should be an embarrassment.. According to Salsman and bovik.org, the graph is based on the 2001 Kang et al. paper in the Annals of Epidemiology about pregnancy outcomes among Gulf War vets. I have already discussed that paper on RADSAFE and it does nothing to substantiate any of Salsman's claims. The graph is also based on the Gulf War Review question and answer article that I discussed yesterday on RADSAFE. You will recall that the Q&A article had a footnote that mentioned some research by Kang wherein he claimed to have found that the rate of birth defects in children of Gulf War deployed male veterans was 2.2 times the rate of birth defects in non-deployed GW vets. According to this 2003 Gulf War Review Q&A, Kang's research was undergoing peer review. In plain English, this graph doesn't explain anything --- at least not about the incidence rate of birth defects. It might explain something about James Salsman's scholarship, however I will refrain from making any comments on *that*. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 03:34 PM 3/1/07 -0800, James Salsman wrote: >On 2/28/07, Maury Siskel wrote: > >>... the attribution to Dr. Kang is correct. But that remains far from a >>complete view of the situation. Follows several quotes regarding other >>studies (preponderance of evidence?) of this subject. > >The point is that the earlier studies all had lower rates, meaning that >the rates are increasing. I think they are increasing way too rapidly. > >Here's a graph that explains it: > http://www.bovik.org/du/gwbd.jpg > >Complaining about this problem and trying to get it fixed helps our >troops, their families, and our ability to recruit. Tungsten might cause >cancer, but it doesn't damage gonocytes, which are, after all, our future. > >Sincerely, >James Salsman From sjd at swcp.com Fri Mar 2 08:39:23 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:39:23 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] ethics in research question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070302072646.009fab70@mail.swcp.com> March 2 The bovik/basra link below is to another of bovik/Salsman's worthless graphs. This one has its "y' axis labeled with increments, however there is no explanation of what the increments are. To reiterate, the graph is worthless. My "scholarship" tells me the 95% confidence interval is irrelevant and immaterial. The point under consideration is whether or not Kang's claim of a 2.2 greater risk of birth defects has any merit. Has that claim passed peer review, and has it been published? If it has, let's have a citation to the journal wherein it was published. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 05:30 AM 3/2/07 -0800, James Salsman wrote: >Steve, > >Thank you for your comments. > >What does your scholarship tell you the 95% confidence interval is? > >If you look at the way the Araneta and earlier papers developed over >time, it closely follows the data being reported out of Basra: > http://www.bovik.org/du/basrah.gif > >-- earlier message -- >From: Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com > > This graph proves nothing. It's so silly and so ill-supported it >should be an embarrassment.. [edit] From jsalsman at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 10:26:01 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 08:26:01 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] revised 1991 war birth defects graph Message-ID: I have revised http://www.bovik.org/du/gwbd.jpg From sjd at swcp.com Fri Mar 2 11:51:11 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:51:11 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] revised 1991 war birth defects graph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070302104000.009f9850@mail.swcp.com> March 2 The revised graph (link below) is still worthless. The revised "y" axis is not labeled, just as the original "y" axis was not labeled. The original graph had a citation to Kang's 2001 paper in Annals of Epidemiology, but this graph has no citation to any literature. We don't know the source of the data points, nor do we know who developed them. Each of the graphs invokes a "Gompertz extrapolation," however neither of them explains who or what Gompertz is. Has Kang published his 2.2 increased risk factor claims? If so give us a citation. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 08:26 AM 3/2/07 -0800, James Salsman wrote: >I have revised http://www.bovik.org/du/gwbd.jpg From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 12:23:23 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB58E@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <729055.67128.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb that cannot get around this type of technology? In the 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. Is there a lesson here? Low technology works well. We are amoured with machines and technology, without looking at what works best. Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are forcing us to spend countless funds on equipment to give us the sense of security. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > anything except taxes and > death! However, where technology can offer enhanced > security and peace of > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as > appropriate for the > circumstances at hand. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf > Of John Jacobus > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 2:00 PM > To: radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > Of course, there is no indication that this > equipment > will prevent terrorist from blowing up aircraft. > They > read the news and are very adaptable. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > ALARA means what it says, as low as reasonably > > achievable. This does not mean zero dose. > Evaluation > > of the task and supportt for or against the dose > > determines if the dose to be received is > warranted. > > I suspect that a majority of travelers worldwide > > would accept this small dose for the peace and > mind > > of knowing that the risk of a catastrophy has been > > reduced, even if the risk has not been entirely > > eliminated. > > > > Sandy Perle > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Franz Sch?nhofer > > > Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:38:27 > > To:,"'stewart farber'" > > , > > Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan > > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > ALARA!!!!!! > > > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > > MinRat i.R. > > Habicherg. 31/7 > > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > > AUSTRIA > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] > > Gesendet: Samstag, 24. Februar 2007 22:29 > > An: Franz Sch?nhofer; 'stewart farber'; > > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan > > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > ALARA is alive and well in USA, to an extreme > > extent. > > > > In this case, the extra dose, estimated to be 10 > > microrem is almost > > non-radiation dose. The privacy aspects is an > issue > > and has to be evaluated > > against the risks trying to be mitigated. The > > article and Stu,s 0comments > > are about the dose received, the doctor's > comments, > > and had nothing to do > > about the image resolution considerations. > > > > I would be surprised that anyone considers this 10 > > microrem dose to be an > > issue. > > > > Sandy Perle > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe > mailing > > list > > > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to > have > > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can > be > > found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > > and other settings visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or > omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the > world?s population; that we > cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot > right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and > therefore there cannot be > an American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ________ > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at > www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it > now. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the > RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 12:39:43 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 18:39:43 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <729055.67128.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB58E@gdses.corp.gds.com> <729055.67128.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <460003351-1172860773-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1095729478-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> John, So, what is your bottom line point? Don't increase security, no profiling, no electronic checks, no hands-on checking, no body scan. What are you really trying to say? If your point is don't do anything, a very dangerous prospect. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb that cannot get around this type of technology? In the 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. Is there a lesson here? Low technology works well. We are amoured with machines and technology, without looking at what works best. Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are forcing us to spend countless funds on equipment to give us the sense of security. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > anything except taxes and > death! However, where technology can offer enhanced > security and peace of > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as > appropriate for the > circumstances at hand. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf > Of John Jacobus > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 2:00 PM > To: radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > Of course, there is no indication that this > equipment > will prevent terrorist from blowing up aircraft. > They > read the news and are very adaptable. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > ALARA means what it says, as low as reasonably > > achievable. This does not mean zero dose. > Evaluation > > of the task and supportt for or against the dose > > determines if the dose to be received is > warranted. > > I suspect that a majority of travelers worldwide > > would accept this small dose for the peace and > mind > > of knowing that the risk of a catastrophy has been > > reduced, even if the risk has not been entirely > > eliminated. > > > > Sandy Perle > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Franz Sch?nhofer > > > Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:38:27 > > To:,"'stewart farber'" > > , > > Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan > > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > ALARA!!!!!! > > > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > > MinRat i.R. > > Habicherg. 31/7 > > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > > AUSTRIA > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] > > Gesendet: Samstag, 24. Februar 2007 22:29 > > An: Franz Sch?nhofer; 'stewart farber'; > > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan > > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > ALARA is alive and well in USA, to an extreme > > extent. > > > > In this case, the extra dose, estimated to be 10 > > microrem is almost > > non-radiation dose. The privacy aspects is an > issue > > and has to be evaluated > > against the risks trying to be mitigated. The > > article and Stu,s 0comments > > are about the dose received, the doctor's > comments, > > and had nothing to do > > about the image resolution considerations. > > > > I would be surprised that anyone considers this 10 > > microrem dose to be an > > issue. > > > > Sandy Perle > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe > mailing > > list > > > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to > have > > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can > be > > found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > > and other settings visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or > omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the > world?s population; that we > cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot > right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and > therefore there cannot be > an American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ________ > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at > www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it > now. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the > RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 12:51:05 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:51:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] 'Safety stand-down' ordered for US Navy's submarine force In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <640095.57102.qm@web54305.mail.yahoo.com> Only two of the latest. http://www.prop1.org/2000/accident/1989/890712a1.htm That is why they need windows. --- "Dawson, Fred Mr" wrote: > Safety stand-down ordered for Navy's submarine force > > http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=41741&archive=true > > http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=117428&ran=182798&tref=p > o > > The Navy on Thursday ordered a safety review of its > entire submarine > force worldwide because of recent accidents at sea > involving > Norfolk-based subs. > > > Fred Dawson > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 13:05:12 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:05:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <460003351-1172860773-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1095729478-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <244284.68970.qm@web54309.mail.yahoo.com> I am saying that this is probably a waste of money. Obviously, you did not understand my comments on the use of sky marshalls. Would any of the programs have prevented Timothy McVeigh? Do you think the terrorist of Sept. 11 would have found away around these systems? Terrorism is not new, all of these devices are flashy and high-tech, but they do not address the root causes of why radical people commit terrorist acts. This is where our resources should be put, not sending armies all over the world, and tell the public this new gadget will make us safer. We have low paid people operating high-tech equipment. I certainly do not feel any safer. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > So, what is your bottom line point? Don't increase > security, no profiling, no electronic checks, no > hands-on checking, no body scan. What are you really > trying to say? If your point is don't do anything, a > very dangerous prospect. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb that > cannot get around this type of technology? In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well. We > are amoured with machines and technology, without > looking at what works best. > > Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the > Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are forcing > us > to spend countless funds on equipment to give us the > sense of security. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > > anything except taxes and > > death! However, where technology can offer > enhanced > > security and peace of > > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as > > appropriate for the > > circumstances at hand. > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 13:25:34 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:25:34 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <244284.68970.qm@web54309.mail.yahoo.com> References: <460003351-1172860773-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1095729478-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <244284.68970.qm@web54309.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <185542802-1172863514-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-708495020-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> So your position is to throw up your hands and say that nothing can improve security. I have repaetedly said there is never a 100 percent conclusion. That doesn't mean to give up. If you don't believe the body scan is better than current ridiculous detection, then we'll just disagree. I fly a lot, an awful lot, and I would like every bag to be inspected and every person scanned. I want to reduce the human error. My life and others are within their control. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:05:12 To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags I am saying that this is probably a waste of money. Obviously, you did not understand my comments on the use of sky marshalls. Would any of the programs have prevented Timothy McVeigh? Do you think the terrorist of Sept. 11 would have found away around these systems? Terrorism is not new, all of these devices are flashy and high-tech, but they do not address the root causes of why radical people commit terrorist acts. This is where our resources should be put, not sending armies all over the world, and tell the public this new gadget will make us safer. We have low paid people operating high-tech equipment. I certainly do not feel any safer. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > So, what is your bottom line point? Don't increase > security, no profiling, no electronic checks, no > hands-on checking, no body scan. What are you really > trying to say? If your point is don't do anything, a > very dangerous prospect. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb that > cannot get around this type of technology? In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well. We > are amoured with machines and technology, without > looking at what works best. > > Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the > Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are forcing > us > to spend countless funds on equipment to give us the > sense of security. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > > anything except taxes and > > death! However, where technology can offer > enhanced > > security and peace of > > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as > > appropriate for the > > circumstances at hand. > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 13:47:20 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:47:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <185542802-1172863514-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-708495020-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <334394.16846.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> There may not be any 100% security, but there are wasys to waste 100% of your money and resources. I am saying that this system will probably do little to make us safer. I would feel safer with sky marshalls. I guess you keep missing that part of my message. Of course, if you are in the business of selling the government equipment, the more the better. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > So your position is to throw up your hands and say > that nothing can improve security. I have repaetedly > said there is never a 100 percent conclusion. That > doesn't mean to give up. If you don't believe the > body scan is better than current ridiculous > detection, then we'll just disagree. I fly a lot, an > awful lot, and I would like every bag to be > inspected and every person scanned. I want to reduce > the human error. My life and others are within their > control. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:05:12 > To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > I am saying that this is probably a waste of money. > Obviously, you did not understand my comments on the > use of sky marshalls. Would any of the programs > have > prevented Timothy McVeigh? Do you think the > terrorist > of Sept. 11 would have found away around these > systems? > > Terrorism is not new, all of these devices are > flashy > and high-tech, but they do not address the root > causes > of why radical people commit terrorist acts. This > is > where our resources should be put, not sending > armies > all over the world, and tell the public this new > gadget will make us safer. > > We have low paid people operating high-tech > equipment. > I certainly do not feel any safer. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > So, what is your bottom line point? Don't increase > > security, no profiling, no electronic checks, no > > hands-on checking, no body scan. What are you > really > > trying to say? If your point is don't do anything, > a > > very dangerous prospect. > > > > Sandy > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus > > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 > > To:Sandy Perle , > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb > that > > cannot get around this type of technology? In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > > > Is > > there a lesson here? Low technology works well. > We > > are amoured with machines and technology, without > > looking at what works best. > > > > Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the > > Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are > forcing > > us > > to spend countless funds on equipment to give us > the > > sense of security. > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > > > anything except taxes and > > > death! However, where technology can offer > > enhanced > > > security and peace of > > > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as > > > appropriate for the > > > circumstances at hand. > > > > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 14:10:18 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 20:10:18 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <334394.16846.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <185542802-1172863514-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-708495020-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <334394.16846.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1441446283-1172866199-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1240715368-@bxe029-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Sky Marshalls in addition to technology. Sky Marshalls are downstream, and we need upstream detection. A Sky Marshall may be viable if a weapon is brandished, but would be uiseless with detonation of a passive device. We need to correlate all opportunities. For protection. If you talk with people in the UK, Tokyo or Madrid, as well as other areas, I think you'll hear a cry for more technology in security used, and not simply rely on human security (which often is minimal in results. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:47:20 To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags There may not be any 100% security, but there are wasys to waste 100% of your money and resources. I am saying that this system will probably do little to make us safer. I would feel safer with sky marshalls. I guess you keep missing that part of my message. Of course, if you are in the business of selling the government equipment, the more the better. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > So your position is to throw up your hands and say > that nothing can improve security. I have repaetedly > said there is never a 100 percent conclusion. That > doesn't mean to give up. If you don't believe the > body scan is better than current ridiculous > detection, then we'll just disagree. I fly a lot, an > awful lot, and I would like every bag to be > inspected and every person scanned. I want to reduce > the human error. My life and others are within their > control. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:05:12 > To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > I am saying that this is probably a waste of money. > Obviously, you did not understand my comments on the > use of sky marshalls. Would any of the programs > have > prevented Timothy McVeigh? Do you think the > terrorist > of Sept. 11 would have found away around these > systems? > > Terrorism is not new, all of these devices are > flashy > and high-tech, but they do not address the root > causes > of why radical people commit terrorist acts. This > is > where our resources should be put, not sending > armies > all over the world, and tell the public this new > gadget will make us safer. > > We have low paid people operating high-tech > equipment. > I certainly do not feel any safer. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > So, what is your bottom line point? Don't increase > > security, no profiling, no electronic checks, no > > hands-on checking, no body scan. What are you > really > > trying to say? If your point is don't do anything, > a > > very dangerous prospect. > > > > Sandy > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus > > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 > > To:Sandy Perle , > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb > that > > cannot get around this type of technology? In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > > > Is > > there a lesson here? Low technology works well. > We > > are amoured with machines and technology, without > > looking at what works best. > > > > Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the > > Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are > forcing > > us > > to spend countless funds on equipment to give us > the > > sense of security. > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > > > anything except taxes and > > > death! However, where technology can offer > > enhanced > > > security and peace of > > > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as > > > appropriate for the > > > circumstances at hand. > > > > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 14:47:24 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:47:24 -0800 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <729055.67128.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59C@gdses.corp.gds.com> John, One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and x-ray checking of carry-on. Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare apples and oranges. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In the 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. Is there a lesson here? Low technology works well From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 15:44:10 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:44:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <1441446283-1172866199-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1240715368-@bxe029-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <33218.41339.qm@web54313.mail.yahoo.com> The problem is that this system will not detect contraband if the person wants to smuggle a weapon aboard a plane. How do you think people smuggle things into jails? They put them up their rectum. Backscatter x-rays don't penetrate that deep. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > Sky Marshalls in addition to technology. Sky > Marshalls are downstream, and we need upstream > detection. A Sky Marshall may be viable if a weapon > is brandished, but would be uiseless with detonation > of a passive device. We need to correlate all > opportunities. For protection. If you talk with > people in the UK, Tokyo or Madrid, as well as other > areas, I think you'll hear a cry for more technology > in security used, and not simply rely on human > security (which often is minimal in results. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:47:20 > To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > There may not be any 100% security, but there are > wasys to waste 100% of your money and resources. > > I am saying that this system will probably do little > to make us safer. I would feel safer with sky > marshalls. I guess you keep missing that part of my > message. > > Of course, if you are in the business of selling the > government equipment, the more the better. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > So your position is to throw up your hands and say > > that nothing can improve security. I have > repaetedly > > said there is never a 100 percent conclusion. That > > doesn't mean to give up. If you don't believe the > > body scan is better than current ridiculous > > detection, then we'll just disagree. I fly a lot, > an > > awful lot, and I would like every bag to be > > inspected and every person scanned. I want to > reduce > > the human error. My life and others are within > their > > control. > > > > Sandy > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus > > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:05:12 > > To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > I am saying that this is probably a waste of > money. > > Obviously, you did not understand my comments on > the > > use of sky marshalls. Would any of the programs > > have > > prevented Timothy McVeigh? Do you think the > > terrorist > > of Sept. 11 would have found away around these > > systems? > > > > Terrorism is not new, all of these devices are > > flashy > > and high-tech, but they do not address the root > > causes > > of why radical people commit terrorist acts. This > > is > > where our resources should be put, not sending > > armies > > all over the world, and tell the public this new > > gadget will make us safer. > > > > We have low paid people operating high-tech > > equipment. > > I certainly do not feel any safer. > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > > > So, what is your bottom line point? Don't > increase > > > security, no profiling, no electronic checks, no > > > hands-on checking, no body scan. What are you > > really > > > trying to say? If your point is don't do > anything, > > a > > > very dangerous prospect. > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: John Jacobus > > > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 > > > To:Sandy Perle , > > radsafe at radlab.nl > > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > > X-Rays > > > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > > > What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb > > that > > > cannot get around this type of technology? In > the > > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > > > > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > > > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to > Cuba. > > > > > Is > > > there a lesson here? Low technology works well. > > > We > > > are amoured with machines and technology, > without > > > looking at what works best. > > > > > > Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the > > > Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are > > forcing > > > us > > > to spend countless funds on equipment to give us > > the > > > sense of security. > > > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > > > > anything except taxes and > > > > death! However, where technology can offer > > > enhanced > > > > security and peace of > > > > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted > as > > > > appropriate for the > > > > circumstances at hand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are > only > > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we > cannot > > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or > reverse > > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > > American solution to every world problem.? > > -- John F. Kennedy > > > > -- John > > John Jacobus, MS > > Certified Health Physicist > > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > === message truncated === +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. From LNMolino at aol.com Fri Mar 2 15:46:36 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:46:36 EST Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Message-ID: In a message dated 3/2/2007 1:14:18 P.M. Central Standard Time, crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: We have low paid people operating high-tech equipment. I certainly do not feel any safer. As a frequent flyer and a "terrorism" consultant (I work only for the "good guys") I tend to agree with that statement. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 15:56:56 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59C@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <758532.48226.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a plane > with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It wasn't until much > later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves > .. and that reason was > also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred > to die along with the > thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't > compare apples and > oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 16:18:08 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 22:18:08 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <758532.48226.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59C@gdses.corp.gds.com> <758532.48226.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a plane > with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It wasn't until much > later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves > .. and that reason was > also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred > to die along with the > thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't > compare apples and > oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From stanford at stanforddosimetry.com Fri Mar 2 16:48:57 2007 From: stanford at stanforddosimetry.com (Neill Stanford) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 14:48:57 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59C@gdses.corp.gds.com><758532.48226.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: None of the new technologies make me feel safer. Every new one inspires me to think of how easily motivated people could get around them. We remove our laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one checks the piles of electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, battery packs, chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz bottles of liquid or gel but what is to stop a group from combining them once on board? These systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, clever bad guys know how to get around them. What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the detailed personal interview at the gate that many European airports have implemented for flights to the USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. Well-trained interviewers asking questions designed to catch you off guard, and observing reactions. Much more effective than the parroted "were you in possession of the bags since..." Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From sjd at swcp.com Fri Mar 2 16:55:32 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:55:32 -0700 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454 -@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <758532.48226.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59C@gdses.corp.gds.com> <758532.48226.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070302155247.009ed920@mail.swcp.com> March 2 They were humans. They were *morally depraved* humans. (Yes, I used the "m" word.) Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 10:18 PM 3/2/07 +0000, Sandy Perle wrote: >John, > >Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are >in my opinion.. > >Sandy > >Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 17:20:56 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:20:56 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59E@gdses.corp.gds.com> Hi Neill, The interviews are a good practice. However I look at each technique as complimentary to another technique. Recall that Richard Reed walked through the interview process, and if he had tried to use a lighter instead of a match, that AA flight would have been blown to pieces over the Atlantic. We need multiple layers of security, recognizing that we will never stop a dedicated well-trained group from finally succeeding in implementing their reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because something won't stop 100% of the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential use. The body scanners will detect most weapons, but not all. The interview may catch many, but not all. We need better technology, but nothing will be full-proof. While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour flight, I can assure you that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and better than I did 5 years ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from now. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to develop and implement new technologies to approach 100%, even though we will never get there. There will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Neill Stanford [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags None of the new technologies make me feel safer. Every new one inspires me to think of how easily motivated people could get around them. We remove our laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one checks the piles of electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, battery packs, chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz bottles of liquid or gel but what is to stop a group from combining them once on board? These systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, clever bad guys know how to get around them. What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the detailed personal interview at the gate that many European airports have implemented for flights to the USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. Well-trained interviewers asking questions designed to catch you off guard, and observing reactions. Much more effective than the parroted "were you in possession of the bags since..." Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 17:24:17 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:24:17 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The 2007 Dosimetry & Records Symposium -- co sponsored by Global Dosimetry Solutions ; Landauer and Panasonic -- In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070302155247.009ed920@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59F@gdses.corp.gds.com> The 2007 Dosimetry & Records Symposium -- co sponsored by Global Dosimetry Solutions ; Landauer and Panasonic -- cordially invites you to the 26th International Dosimetry & Records Symposium AGENDA and other details: http://www.dosimetryresources.com from there, click on the tab for the 2007 Symposium As in 2006, this will be a joint symposium for Dosimetry and Records - with common plus parallel track sessions Topics planned are "Nuclear Renaissance" ; Nuclear Cycle ; Homeland Security ; Emergency Response ; Regulatory changes and updates ;Litigation ; Environmental ; Confidentiality ; Dose Reconstruction ; EPD ; Establishing a Program for Accreditation etc Special sessions are also planned for " Hands On" equipment training and panel discussions on open issues REGISTRATION: Attendees $350 Guests ( over12) $175 On Line Registration --link below https://www.SignUp4.net/Public/ap.aspx?EID=ANNU23E DATES: Arrival on Sunday, June 3, 2007 Sessions from Monday, June 4 (8:00am) to Friday, June 8, 2007 (5:00pm) Depart on Saturday, June 9 at your leisure VENUE: Portland Marriott at Sable Oaks 200 Sable Oaks Drive South Portland Maine 04106 USA (207) 871 8000 (800) 752 8810 http://marriott.com/property/propertypage/PWMAP HOTEL ROOM RESERVATION Please contact the Portland Marriott at Sable Oaks directly at (800) 752 8810 and identify yourself as an attendee of the "Dosimetry & Records Symposium June 3 -9; 2007 " to avail yourself of the special negotiated rates: Single or Double Guestroom @ $ 149 plus 7% tax Gov't Rate @ $ 82 plus 7% tax (Applicable only to active U.S. Gov't/DOD/DOE employees - Valid ID required) AIRPORT: Portland ; Maine (PWM) http://www.portlandjetport.org/ Other nearby aiports are Boston Logan (BOS) approx 2 hours by car and Manchester (MHT) approx 1 1/2 hours by car. GROUND TRANSPORTATION: Hotel provides complimentary transportation from and to Portland , Maine (PWM) airport Looking forward to your participation Thank you, 2007 Dosimetry & Records Symposium Task Force Inid Deneau Landauer Chairperson Sandy Perle Global Dosimetry Solutions Co-Chairperson Bruce Dicey Consultant Dante Wells Savannah River Company Deborah O'Connor TXU/Comanche Peak Isabelle McCabe Radiation Safety and Control Services Pam Heckman Energy Solutions Richard Cadogan Argonne National Labs Ash Chabra Panasonic From stanford at stanforddosimetry.com Fri Mar 2 17:52:17 2007 From: stanford at stanforddosimetry.com (Neill Stanford) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:52:17 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59E@gdses.corp.gds.com> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59E@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: Hey Sandy, But Richard Reed was 1) flying on AA, 2) flying in 2001. I am talking about the interview process used for decades by El Al and recently (I noticed it in Amsterdam last Nov) for EU to USA flights. I'm all for effective technology, but shudder when I think of the cost benefit analysis of the measures put in place over the past 5 years. [But then, I also think the instructions and equipment dealing with a "ditch over water" are a big waste of time.] My point was that in this country we rely almost solely on machines. Machines operated by under-paid and under-trained people. While other countries put more emphasis on better-trained better-paid individuals. Very subjectively, I feel a lot safer going through that process than I ever have flying from a US airport. Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:21 PM To: 'Neill Stanford'; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Hi Neill, The interviews are a good practice. However I look at each technique as complimentary to another technique. Recall that Richard Reed walked through the interview process, and if he had tried to use a lighter instead of a match, that AA flight would have been blown to pieces over the Atlantic. We need multiple layers of security, recognizing that we will never stop a dedicated well-trained group from finally succeeding in implementing their reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because something won't stop 100% of the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential use. The body scanners will detect most weapons, but not all. The interview may catch many, but not all. We need better technology, but nothing will be full-proof. While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour flight, I can assure you that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and better than I did 5 years ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from now. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to develop and implement new technologies to approach 100%, even though we will never get there. There will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Neill Stanford [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags None of the new technologies make me feel safer. Every new one inspires me to think of how easily motivated people could get around them. We remove our laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one checks the piles of electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, battery packs, chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz bottles of liquid or gel but what is to stop a group from combining them once on board? These systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, clever bad guys know how to get around them. What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the detailed personal interview at the gate that many European airports have implemented for flights to the USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. Well-trained interviewers asking questions designed to catch you off guard, and observing reactions. Much more effective than the parroted "were you in possession of the bags since..." Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Fri Mar 2 17:54:37 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 00:54:37 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak In-Reply-To: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> Since I got tired of the subject I have not reacted to any message on that subject since a long time, but what I yesterday read in the discussion between John and Mr. Perle motivated me to plan to react tomorrow, because what is distributed by Mr. Perle is just hairraising. But his two last messages are so unacceptable that I write this comment now. All attempts to intimitate me and ridicule me are in vain, because such a character like Mr. Perle cannot insult me. John, you know that I always have esteemed your contributions I understand (I do not understand questions of epidemiology and similar ones). Now I have to congratulate you, because until now you are obviously the only US-citizen on RADSAFE to speak out clearly against this paranoid "safety thinking", which seems to be only used to intimitade people, subject them to humiliation (been shown naked on screens) and to undermine the human rights and of course to raise the profit of quite a few companies claiming that they manufacture instruments and devices for "safety". I know more than well, that these are not only my thoughts, but these are the thoughts of many million US-citizens and influential groups. Practically all of my US-friends and collegues are among them. So much now, but the main reason that I have not waited until tomorrow, is, that Mr. Perle used the expression "sub-human" before and even insisted on these words in his latest contribution. This is clearly Nazi-Speak - in German "Untermenschen", a label given by Nazi-Germany to non-arian people like all Slavs, including Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Czech, Slovenians, Serbs, Montenegrinians etc. etc., the Romas (gypsies), Arabs and especially Jews. (It is intersting that the Romas are genuine Arians.) I do not expect that Mr. Perle has ever been to Auschwitz or Majdanek or any of the other Nazi-extinction camps, where "sub-humans" were killed daily by the thousands or rather tens of thousands like insects by using hydrogen cyanide. I have been there and therefore I am more than allergic for such words. Now I ask whether RADSAFE is the right place to use Nazi-speak. Another US citizen has been banned many years ago from the list, because he was calling an international organisation for "Gestapo". It seems that this expression throws a light on Mr. Perles character. More light I'll shed on him and his queer opinions tomorrow (like "he" wants to be safe on flights and therefore everybody else has to undergo humiliating procedures, not raising at all safety and security). It is half past midnight and again I will go to sleep. The most recent attempt to insult me by Mr. Perle on 15 Feb. is ridiculous: I will not take an aspirin, because I take it everyday in the morning according to my doctors advice. I do not take something called "Luvox". I do not even know what it is, but this only confirms that Mr. Perle is of the opinion that everybody in this world should know US-brandnames and in a broader view succumb to any US interest and request. Since I might concede that Mr. Perle might be aware, that an Austrian does not know "Luvox" I take the alternative conclusion that he was writing this for the US-market of his company. Again, John, my deepest respect. Mr. Perle, please never adress me personally again. Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Sandy Perle Gesendet: Freitag, 02. M?rz 2007 23:18 An: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a plane > with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It wasn't until much > later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves > .. and that reason was > also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred > to die along with the > thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't > compare apples and > oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 18:05:23 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:05:23 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak In-Reply-To: <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A1@gdses.corp.gds.com> Franz, For someone who has absolutely nothing to say, you say it so often. And you equate me to a Nazi. If I recall, Hitler was from Austria. Where are you from, Franz!!!! From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 18:07:47 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:07:47 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] if you want to talk about Nazism... In-Reply-To: <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A2@gdses.corp.gds.com> Franz, so, you've visited Auschwitz. I'm impressed. You've visited this death camp. I've lost relatives there. So keep your opinions to yourself! From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 18:13:08 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:13:08 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A3@gdses.corp.gds.com> Neill, I agree we need better trained and higher paid TSA personnel. Reminds me of my days I the power plant where the lowest paid person on the site was the one carrying the semi-automatic weapons! I still contend that we need a balanced security plan, using well trained personnel, high degree of instrument sophistication, and behavioral profiling to determine which traveler requires additional scrutiny. And for Franz, who continues to insinuate that my comments are facilitating company profits, far from it. My company is not in the business of marketing these instruments, period. Not that Franz deserves a comment. He certainly doesn't. I just enjoy wait9ing because I know that after any of my postings, within a day or so, there will be Franz. He's like a magnet. He just doesn't fall off! Sandy -----Original Message----- From: Neill Stanford [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:52 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Hey Sandy, But Richard Reed was 1) flying on AA, 2) flying in 2001. I am talking about the interview process used for decades by El Al and recently (I noticed it in Amsterdam last Nov) for EU to USA flights. I'm all for effective technology, but shudder when I think of the cost benefit analysis of the measures put in place over the past 5 years. [But then, I also think the instructions and equipment dealing with a "ditch over water" are a big waste of time.] My point was that in this country we rely almost solely on machines. Machines operated by under-paid and under-trained people. While other countries put more emphasis on better-trained better-paid individuals. Very subjectively, I feel a lot safer going through that process than I ever have flying from a US airport. Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:21 PM To: 'Neill Stanford'; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Hi Neill, The interviews are a good practice. However I look at each technique as complimentary to another technique. Recall that Richard Reed walked through the interview process, and if he had tried to use a lighter instead of a match, that AA flight would have been blown to pieces over the Atlantic. We need multiple layers of security, recognizing that we will never stop a dedicated well-trained group from finally succeeding in implementing their reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because something won't stop 100% of the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential use. The body scanners will detect most weapons, but not all. The interview may catch many, but not all. We need better technology, but nothing will be full-proof. While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour flight, I can assure you that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and better than I did 5 years ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from now. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to develop and implement new technologies to approach 100%, even though we will never get there. There will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Neill Stanford [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags None of the new technologies make me feel safer. Every new one inspires me to think of how easily motivated people could get around them. We remove our laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one checks the piles of electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, battery packs, chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz bottles of liquid or gel but what is to stop a group from combining them once on board? These systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, clever bad guys know how to get around them. What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the detailed personal interview at the gate that many European airports have implemented for flights to the USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. Well-trained interviewers asking questions designed to catch you off guard, and observing reactions. Much more effective than the parroted "were you in possession of the bags since..." Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Fri Mar 2 18:22:22 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 01:22:22 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] AW: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A1@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <000001c75d2a$0c1c9d80$49197254@pc1> Shut up! Or do you more and more want to show your ignorance? I am not responsible for Mr. Hitler having been born in Braunau. My family has been in big troubles during the second world war. I have not equated you to a Nazi, but I categorized your words as Nazi-speak and so it is. Two other US citizen have already critizised your wording of "sub-humans" - flame them if you want to get rid of your aggressions. You know more than well, that I am from Austria - or did you forget our appointment in Vienna? This has nothing to do with any US-aversion - this is directed to just a single persons conduct. Refrain from sending any more intended insults to me, even more to send them to RADSAFE, because I will from now on not answer any single one. Did you understand, Mr. Perle? And don't call me "Franz" anymore, in our European culture first names are a privilege - sometime it seems that this is the case in certain parts of the USA as well. With all disrespect Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 03. M?rz 2007 01:05 An: 'Franz Sch?nhofer'; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Betreff: RE: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Franz, For someone who has absolutely nothing to say, you say it so often. And you equate me to a Nazi. If I recall, Hitler was from Austria. Where are you from, Franz!!!! From sjd at swcp.com Fri Mar 2 18:27:16 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 17:27:16 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A1@gdses.corp.gds.co m> References: <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070302172605.009f7cb0@mail.swcp.com> March 2 Knock it off, you two. This is getting us nowhere. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 04:05 PM 3/2/07 -0800, Sandy Perle wrote: >Franz, > >For someone who has absolutely nothing to say, you say it so often. And you >equate me to a Nazi. If I recall, Hitler was from Austria. Where are you >from, Franz!!!! From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 18:27:44 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:27:44 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak In-Reply-To: <000001c75d2a$0c1c9d80$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A5@gdses.corp.gds.com> Franz, You continue to say that you don't want to hear from me, nor will you address me. Now is a good time to start. Don't pick and chose your needling comments, your agenda of personal attacks, and you won't hear from me. I'll continue to post to Radsafe, and if you don't like what I write, learn to use a filter and it will be a very simple function for my posts to disappear. If you can't figure that out, then just hit the delete button. I am now finished with you as well. There are others on Radsafe who have more important opinions to have a dialogue with. You are not amongst them. -----Original Message----- From: Franz Sch?nhofer [mailto:franz.schoenhofer at chello.at] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 4:22 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Subject: AW: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Shut up! Or do you more and more want to show your ignorance? I am not responsible for Mr. Hitler having been born in Braunau. My family has been in big troubles during the second world war. I have not equated you to a Nazi, but I categorized your words as Nazi-speak and so it is. Two other US citizen have already critizised your wording of "sub-humans" - flame them if you want to get rid of your aggressions. You know more than well, that I am from Austria - or did you forget our appointment in Vienna? This has nothing to do with any US-aversion - this is directed to just a single persons conduct. Refrain from sending any more intended insults to me, even more to send them to RADSAFE, because I will from now on not answer any single one. Did you understand, Mr. Perle? And don't call me "Franz" anymore, in our European culture first names are a privilege - sometime it seems that this is the case in certain parts of the USA as well. With all disrespect Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 03. M?rz 2007 01:05 An: 'Franz Sch?nhofer'; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Betreff: RE: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Franz, For someone who has absolutely nothing to say, you say it so often. And you equate me to a Nazi. If I recall, Hitler was from Austria. Where are you from, Franz!!!! From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 18:46:15 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:46:15 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Poland signs on to Baltic nuclear plant Message-ID: <45E854D7.25095.244D7BA7@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: Poland signs on to Baltic nuclear plant Thai Energy Council OKs Setting Up Nuclear Pwr Plant Committe Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Czech Nuclear Plant Leak Deemed Harmless Nuclear Lab Develops Powerful Dust Rag Hundreds hear proposal for nuclear power plant CFE orders plant modification S.C. county fights for nuclear landfill Britain gets nuclear waste warning from energy chiefs Wayne Co. Residents Can Get KI Pills Earthlife Anti-Nuclear In Energy Debate Monroeville-based Westinghouse to begin work on 4 nuclear plants Salazar Wants Compensate Ex-Rocky Flats Workers ----------------------------------------------- Poland signs on to Baltic nuclear plant Poland and Lithuania have signed an agreement to build a new nuclear power station in Lithuania. It will replace the ageing Ignalina power station in eastern Lithuania. Ignalina is the last Chernobyl-style reactor still in use in the European Union. Lithuania will have a 34 percent stake in the project. Its three partner countries - Estonia, Latvia and Poland - will hold 22 percent each. the replacement facility is not due to be commissioned before 2015, leaving a six- year gap between the closure of the old plant and the inauguration of the new. --------------- Thai Energy Council OKs Setting Up Nuclear Pwr Plant Committe BANGKOK -(Dow Jones)- Thailand's National Energy Policy Council Friday approved the formation of a committee to study the possibility of setting up a nuclear power plant, Energy Minister Piyasvasti Amranand said. The committee, to be formed soon, would take about seven years to study the issue and decide whether Thailand should have a nuclear power plant or not, Piyasvasti told reporters after the meeting of the National Energy Policy Council. He didn't give details on the composition of the committee. Thailand will need to consider nuclear energy as an alternative to fuel power generation in the future due to the limited supply and rising prices of conventional fuel, such as natural gas and oil, he said. Piyasvasti said the average construction and fuel cost of a nuclear power plant is THB1.6 a kilowatt-hour, while that for natural gas- fired and coal-fired power plants is THB2/kWh. Among the options under the draft power development plan for 2007- 2021 is building nuclear power plants with a combined capacity of 5,000 megawatts to supply electricity starting 2020 and 2021. Other new power plants would use coal and natural gas as fuel. The National Energy Policy Council also approved in principle the draft energy business act, a new law governing electricity and natural gas businesses and which will enhance transparency in the energy sector, said Piyasvasti. Under the new law, a group of seven regulators will be formed to supervize the energy sector and ensure fairness to consumers. The Council of State will review the law before it is forwarded to the Cabinet for approval and the National Legislative Assembly for final approval. ------------- Nuclear plant planning moves ahead You may not have heard too much lately about that planned nuclear power plant in southern Levy County S but that doesn't mean plans have stopped. Two representatives from Progress Energy spoke to the Williston Rotary Club on Tuesday and brought the group up to date on work being undertaken to possibly get the power plant built. "We haven't made a final decision to build," said Gail T. Simpson, manager of Public Policy and Constituency Relations for the company. "We haven't purchased the land. There are still more tests to be done." Rosemary Fagler, Community Relations Manager for the region, described the needs of consumers and how growth has affected the company. "New homes are so much larger now," she said, noting that more space required more energy to heat and cool, there were more appliances today than in earlier years and computers were in most homes, many running on a 24/7 basis. Simpson pointed out that within 50 years the "population is expected to double in the state of Florida." The speakers commented that Progress Energy has to start thinking about that now, even though its needs might be 10 or 20 years away. Simpson answered the question of why Levy was chosen. "There are limited locations in Florida. A lot of hot water is required, and there are very few places that using that much water would not have an impact." The Levy County site would draw water from the Gulf. "We also needed a couple thousand acres in a rural area. "The Levy County location is a preferred site for a lot of technical and other reasons." The company still has a lot of processes and permitting to go through, including the state, the Public Service Commission, the Department of Environmental Protection and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. "We'll file an application with the NRC by the end of next year," Simpson said. "They require all sorts of information," including weather data and soil borings. Fagler spoke about the economic benefits, including property taxes, 1,000 to 2,000 construction jobs, 500 permanent jobs and increased local investment. She also said the plant would be environmentally friendly with no greenhouse gas emissions. When asked by the Pioneer whether they would ask for tax breaks, which many industries do as they move into an area, they said things like that hadn't been considered as yet. "We hope to have a good relationship with the county," Simpson added. ----------------- Czech Nuclear Plant Leak Deemed Harmless PRAGUE, Czech Republic - More than 500 gallons of radioactive water leaked at a nuclear power plant, but did not contaminate the environment, an official said Thursday. The water leaked early Tuesday at the Temelin plant's first unit, which is currently shut down for fuel replacement, plant spokesman Milan Nebesar said. "The water went to a special tank through a special ... system and none of it leaked to the environment," Nebesar said. He said that an open valve caused the leak. The plant's second unit was running at full capacity. Nebesar said the plant's management has informed Czech and Austrian authorities about the leak. Austrian officials expressed surprise and anger over the delay in getting word of the mishap, which occurred while Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer was on an official visit to Prague. Environment Minister Josef Proell lodged a formal protest with his Czech counterparts Thursday, insisting the Czech government explain "why it took more than 50 hours before Austria was informed" of the accident, said his spokesman, Daniel Kapp. The Czech Republic and Austria have been at odds for years over the plant, located only 35 miles from the Austrian border. Austrian environmentalists have demanded the plant closed because of security concerns. Czech authorities insist it is safe. Construction of the plant's two 1,000-megawatt units, based on Russian designs, started in the 1980s. The reactors were later upgraded with U.S. technology, but have remained controversial because of frequent malfunctions. -------------- Nuclear Lab Develops Powerful Dust Rag (AP) OAK RIDGE, Tenn. This is one cleaning that could pass anybody's white-glove test. A high-tech dust rag developed by a research chemist at a nuclear weapons plant can pick up potentially deadly beryllium particles that are 20 times smaller than what can be seen with the naked eye. Its inventor, Ron Simandl, says it could be used to mop up industrial accidents or wipe down semiconductor "clean rooms." And look out Swiffer dusters: The "Negligible-Residue Non-tacky Tack Cloth" could be bound for the consumer market, albeit with a catchier name. Simandl, who is used to working in a secretive environment at the Y- 12 nuclear weapons plant, isn't saying much about the ingredients in his special cloth-coating formula. The patent-pending treatment, which could work on any rag, has been tested on cheesecloth for six months with great success, he said. Metal, ceramic, plastic, fibers, radiological contaminants all have been picked up. "There is a good, but not necessarily obvious reason why they work," he said. "My cloths were thoroughly tested before I submitted the patent application." Marilyn Giles, technology transfer director for Y-12's managing contractor, is shopping the treatment around. "We will need a technical champion before we can find a business champion because it is kind of hard to comprehend that it can actually do what he says it can do," Giles said. "But it would not be a very expensive process to put in place for a company who already does this." The Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology, an industry group that is involved in setting clean room standards, sounded intrigued. "The product is interesting, but there are a number of questions ... that many professionals would have," institute spokeswoman Heather Dvorak said in an e-mail. Beryllium is a light but strong metal that is used in bicycle frames and golf clubs, X-ray machines and nuclear weapons. Exposure can lead to chronic respiratory problems and cancer. The Y-12 plant, which has been making nuclear bomb parts since World War II, doesn't take beryllium lightly. The government has paid out millions to compensate sick nuclear plant workers, including about 140 past and present Y-12 workers identified with beryllium sensitivity, an early stage of the illness. Commercial cleaners and wipes failed to pick up all the beryllium and left a residue. "I have been thinking about this for 30 years," Simandl said. "Other people have to, and it has just evaded us. It is just a real difficult problem. You are trying to clean up invisible stuff, but it's at levels that industrial hygiene people say is harmful." The organic solvent-based cloth treatment that Simandl and partner Scott Hollenbeck came up with yields a dry coating that doesn't feel tacky to the touch "yet retains very high tackiness on the microscopic level" and leaves no trace. "The physics of tackiness is very complex," Simandl said. The dust rag may work like a dirt magnet, but "magnetism is not involved," he adds. "That is just allegory or poetic license." Simandl also tried out the cloths at home. Using his simple instructions "Use dry, rub hard," Simandl dry-buffed the alloy wheels on his car. "The stubborn brake and road dirt came right off and left the wheels bright and showroom-shiny," he said. "You could even polish your titanium golf clubs with them." ---------------- Hundreds hear proposal for nuclear power plant ROSWELL -- Roswell's mayor says that relying on foreign oil is dangerous and that the nation needs nuclear power. Sam LaGrone spoke Tuesday night to several hundred people attending a U.S. Department of Energy hearing on the possibility of a nuclear waste reprocessing center near Roswell. The owners of a hazardous waste site between Roswell and Tatum, Gandy- Marley Inc., in partnership with EnergySolutions, are receiving $1.1 million to study the site for a spent fuel recycling center. A site near Hobbs, proposed by Eddy Lea Energy Alliance, was awarded $1.5 million for a similar study. That money was part of more than $10 million awarded by the Department of Energy for detailed site studies on 11 areas nationwide for so-called integrated spent fuel recycling facilities, which the department said would allow the nation to recycle spent nuclear fuel safely. Studies are due by May 30. The recycling centers are part of President Bush's proposed Global Nuclear Energy Partnership, which seeks to reduce U.S. dependence on imported oil. ------------- CFE orders plant modification Alstom and consortium partner Iberdrola have signed a contract with Mexico?s state-owned utility Comision Federal de Electricidad (CFE) to modernise the Laguna Verde nuclear power plant. The total order value is estimated at approximately EUR470m, of which Alstom?s share is around EUR150m. Alstom?s scope of supply is for the full retrofit of two steam turbines, each with one high pressure and two low pressure cylinders, and the supply of new generators. Consortium leader Iberinco, the engineering and construction business of the Iberdrola Group, will supply the balance of plant. According to Alstom, the project will increase the current installed capacity of the plant by 20%, from 1,350 to 1,634 MW. The work will begin immediately and is scheduled for completion by 2010. Laguna Verde is Mexico?s only nuclear power plant, and the refurbishment work is part of CFE?s strategy of optimising all its energy resources and maintaining a diversified and independent energy supply in the country. ---------------- S.C. county fights for nuclear landfill SNELLING, S.C. - In this rural county beset by high unemployment, the soon-to-arrive day when the local nuclear-waste landfill closes its doors to nearly all debris is no cause for celebration. Chem-Nuclear, a disposal site for low-level radioactive waste from hospitals and power plants around the nation, offers some of the county's few high-paying jobs, provides roughly 10 percent of its overall budget and pumps $1 million a year into local schools. It has also handed out college scholarships and bought equipment for police and paramedics. The landfill has long been under attack from environmentalists, and a 2000 state law says that starting next year, it can accept waste only from South Carolina and two other states. But now, as that date draws near, lawmakers are considering extending the deadline to 2023. Locals say that changing the law is vital and that outsiders just don't understand how important the landfill is. "It's been in Barnwell so long, it's part of who we are," said Berley Lindler, a jewelry shop owner in the nearby town of Barnwell. "It's good for the economy. They're our friends." About 23,300 people live in Barnwell County, about 55 miles from Columbia in the southwestern part of South Carolina, near the Georgia state line. The county has no rail lines or interstate-highway access, and unemployment stands at 10 percent. In the past few years, hundreds of jobs in the county have vanished with the closing of a gas-grill maker and a window manufacturer. The biggest employer, the Dixie-Narco vending machine company, has cut about 1,400 jobs over the past several years and was bought out last year, said Keith Sloan, chairman of the County Council. "We've really taken some hits," he said. Nuclear power plant debris and radioactive hospital clothing have been buried here since 1971 atop aquifers that run to the Savannah River. In its heyday from 1980 to the early 1990s, Chem-Nuclear employed hundreds of people. In 1980, it collected 2.4 million cubic feet of the solid, radioactive waste, which is stored in steel containers that are put in concrete vaults and then buried in long trenches. Bought last year by Utah-based EnergySolutions, it is now one of three landfills in the nation for low-level radioactive waste. Utah and Washington have the others. The landfill was last cited by state environmental regulators in 1983, for improperly unloading a shipment. In 1999, tritium, a radioactive isotope of hydrogen, was found on the grounds of a church next to the landfill. The levels were below those accepted by regulators, but the company dug up and replaced the contaminated soil. A year later, then-Gov. Jim Hodges led a campaign to wean South Carolina off radioactive waste. From about 120 miles away, residents of wealthier Beaufort and Hilton Head, which get drinking water from the Savannah River, added to the outcry. State lawmakers passed a measure to slowly choke off the amount of waste that could be sent to the landfill. This year, the cap is 40,000 cubic feet of waste, or enough to cover a baseball infield to a depth of 5 feet. Plant manager Jim Lathan said restricting the waste to South Carolina, Connecticut and New Jersey means the landfill will run a deficit and will probably have to lay off some of the 51 workers who are left since the state law was passed. Environmentalists say none of the changes should be a surprise. Ann Timberlake, executive director of the Conservation Voters of South Carolina, said the county should have used the $2 million it has received yearly since 2000 to prepare itself. "Everyone knew the volume would go down," she said. "We've established a fair roadmap, and we need to stick to it." State officials test the soil, air, surface and ground water four times a year, inspect shipments daily and show up unannounced for semiannual inspections. While tritium has been found in groundwater, it has been far below regulatory limits, said Michael Moore, the state's environmental manager for infectious and radioactive waste management. But environmentalists still worry about the trucks carrying waste to Chem-Nuclear that pass through other counties, and the underground water that makes its way into the river. They worry, too, about the state's image. "One county should not decide for South Carolina whether we should be the nation's dump," Timberlake said. Locals point out that the site has paid $430 million in fees to the state Education Department since 1995, provides jobs that pay an average of $49,500 a year, and has been a good corporate citizen in other respects. Plaques thanking Chem-Nuclear for paying for various projects pepper the walls of buildings and parks. "I don't disagree we knew this was coming," Sloan said. "But you know, one day you're going to die, too. How are you going to prepare for it when you don't have alternatives available?" Without Chem-Nuclear, residents, officials and educators fear rising property taxes, teacher layoffs and other troubles. "We'd be devastated without it," said Barnwell schools Superintendent Carolyne Williams. "We would have leaky roofs. We wouldn't have proper air conditioning." --------------- Britain gets nuclear waste warning from energy chiefs Britain must not go ahead with a new generation of nuclear power stations until it has a "clear and robust" plan in place for dealing with the twin problems of decommissioning and waste treatment, the world's leading energy body warned yesterday. The International Energy Agency also said that any new nuclear programme must be funded entirely from the private sector, without any government subsidy or market intervention. In its latest review of UK energy policy, the agency said that it supported the building of new nuclear stations as an important part of the country's future energy mix. However, it added that the Government's current proposals for dealing with issues such as planning and construction, long-term waste management and guidance for potential financial backers were "too vague to provide the required certainty". Ministers have pledged to address this in the forthcoming energy White Paper. The document had been due to be published in the next fortnight but has been delayed until May after the environmental campaign group Greenpeace succeeded in a High Court action claiming that the Government had failed to consult properly last year on the twin issues of financing a new nuclear programme and waste management. Introducing the IEA report, Claude Mandil, the agency's executive director, said: "The spent-fuel issue is the most critical one for nuclear. It will not develop if there is not a credible and satisfactory answer to the management of spent fuel and one which is convincing for the public." At present, most low-level waste is disposed of at the state-owned Drigg depository in Cumbria while intermediate-level waste is stored on site. But the report says that Britain must move rapidly to select and implement a comprehensive national policy for radioactive waste disposal. To this end, it is "essential" that the Government puts in place schemes to ensure that adequate funds are available to cover decommissioning and waste disposal. These funds should come from either the industry itself or electricity consumers. Mr Mandil said the agency was against any form of subsidy to enable new nuclear stations to be built because it increased uncertainty. But he said he was in favour of the idea of nuclear plant developers agreeing long-term supply contracts to ensure that their costs were covered, as was now happening with the construction of new capacity in Finland. Lord Truscott, the UK energy minister, said there would be no subsidy, levy, nuclear obligation or market intervention to help launch a new nuclear programme. "Our position is unchanged. New nuclear will have to stand on its own feet. It will be for private business to make its own decisions on investing and for industry to decide whether it is viable. It will operate within the market as it stands." Despite the minister's insistence that there will be no government intervention, many energy experts believe there will need to be some form of aid or guarantee to kick-start a new nuclear programme. Some observers even believe there will have to be some form of indemnity given to station builders to underwrite their costs should a future government reverse nuclear policy. Elsewhere, the agency largely gave the UK a glowing report, saying its policies for supporting investment in new plant and energy efficiency were working well. However, it sounded a note of caution about the UK's growing dependence on gas, saying options should be kept open for the use of other fuels. -------------- Wayne Co. Residents Can Get KI Pills (Wayne Co., N.Y.) - People who live near the Ginna Nuclear Power Plant can get potassium iodide (KI) starting this week. The current pills are set to expire this month. The medication was given out to be used in the event of an accident or terror attack that might lead to a radiation leak. The medication can be picked up in several town offices in Wayne County. --------------- Earthlife Anti-Nuclear In Energy Debate IT is laudable that Namibians engage in public debates on nuclear energy, triggered off by the statement recently made by the Permanent Secretary of Mines and Energy, Mr Joseph Iitha, that nuclear energy is considered as one of the many options to generate power. It is of course right to make a decision after all options have been investigated. I for my part am quite sure that Government will come up with a responsible choice and this will not be generation of nuclear power in Namibia. The article "Namibia opts for nuclear power" featured in The Namibian on 11th January 2007 challenged Earthlife Namibia to start an e-mail discussion encouraging Namibians to express their view on the issue. We received very interesting comments which I want to share with the interested reader. This letter is a compilation of the debate. For easier reading I separate the comments with bullets, whereby the order is purely by chance. However, some comments we received don't feature here because of repetition. Especially renewable energy and the unsolved problem of nuclear waste disposal was mentioned many times. * Having uranium ore is hardly an argument in favour of nuclear energy production. It would probably damage Namibia's "pristine" environmental image too which would have to be incorporated into any cost benefit analysis. * From a perspective of human's lack of commitment into renewable energy, the only alternative to fossil fuels will be nuclear. Considering greed etc. I do not foresee humans living on re-energy before all (including uranium) the earth has is depleted. Would it not be in everybody's interest to do as much research into nuclear energy and safety as possible? Just imagine that we run out of fossil fuels and then all the industrial nations switch over to the old unsafe nuclear power stations. * The raw material uranium is mined in Namibia by foreign mining companies having contracts of delivery with foreign customers. In general the calculated lifetime of local uranium mines is 15 years. It takes long to get the infrastructure for uranium enrichment in place, build the nuclear power plant and train the right people. By the time all this has been achieved Namibia needs to import uranium oxide for a high price. * What would be worse: nuclear power generation or Epupa? * Namibia needs an energy strategic plan into which role players can feed their input. It seems as if the decision makers are handling things a bit ad hoc at the moment. * The uranium boom is temporary. When all the new production starts up globally, there will be an excess in the market, prices will start dropping and the marginal mines will start closing again. Namibia has a chance of becoming an African leader in wave, wind and solar, which it can never do with nuclear, because even if it imports a reactor it will become dependent on foreign technicians, loans and companies like Eskom - which means that the problem complained of, dependency on SA, will not necessary go away. * It's scary but I'm not surprised given what is happening in South Africa and the assumption about expanded markets for uranium. We have to keep reminding the government that Namibia has abundant sun and wind!...and keep educating the public and publishing the figures on costs and benefits of renewable energy and the dangers of nuclear energy. * Nuclear power requires such high technological capacity and skills that it is extremely doubtful if Namibia would ever be in a position to mobilize the manpower to operate and maintain a nuclear power plant. I am of the opinion that the decision by Government is indeed a long term vision, but the decision at least creates the opportunity for Namibia to start developing its assets towards achieving such a vision. The decision is therefore a step in the right direction, provided that the thrust to create human capacity is directed properly. * The bottom line for all these options is the economy of scale and the cost of the energy. It is a pity the article does not state what power is costing the Namibian consumer at present in order to compare costs. Any power supplied at 35c/kWh plus is very expensive and not really affordable. The Namibian demand is small and the units cost is therefore understandable very high. To produce and sell more units, the unit cost can be reduced, but Namibia would need a large anchor consumer like the RSA that requires thousands of MW (presently 40 000 MW in the RSA) and not a measly 500 MW like Namibia. Economics and capacity would therefore dictate any future outcomes of whatever is contemplated. * All forms of power generation and distribution create environmental problems to a greater or lesser extent. Many of the forms of power generation that seem to cause the lowest impact are unreliable, inefficient, expensive and new - the technologies have not yet been fully tested under production conditions. One of the worst forms of power generation under present global conditions is the suite of generators that contribute to climate change - undoubtedly one of the most serious environmental issues that this planet has ever faced. I don't believe that it is in the interests of the environment for environmental organizations to adopt positions of being either pro or anti nuclear energy. I believe that the situation will differ from country to country, depending on the options that different countries have. Within this context, I further believe that a rational assessment of the pros and cons of all the available options should be carried out in Namibia, in an open and transparent way, taking into account all the important variables, both socio-economic and environmental. * Great - despite the refuse it is still one of the environmentally cleanest sources of high-output power, with no contribution to global warming, which affects especially our rangelands and thus farmers and thousands of poor rural people as well! Look at the broader picture and its benefits! * Technological expertise is the most important issue in nuclear energy production. Namibia could deal with the technology of renewable energy, a good example is Gobabeb. But technology for a nuclear power plant is a different story. * The Wildlife Society of Namibia (WLSN) supports sustainable development and the sustainable utilisation of resources, including the sustainable generation and use of energy. The WLSN can not support either uranium mining or nuclear power generation, because the environmental damages and inherent risks involved (some of which are extremely long-lasting) outweigh the short-term benefits of power supply. Most especially the created nuclear waste poses an extremely high risk which remains undiminished for periods of time far beyond human planning capabilities. The only other major use of uranium, for the creation of weapons, can not be supported in any way either. The WLSN therefore does not support any utilisation of uranium. I do not want to comment on the above, it speaks for itself. Only one small remark: please dear reader, while making up your own opinion regarding nuclear power generation in Namibia (YES or NO), weigh up the short-term benefits against the long-term consequences and think about the many future generations burdened with the nuclear waste. Bertchen Kohrs Earthlife Namibia --------------- Monroeville-based Westinghouse to begin work on 4 nuclear plants Westinghouse Electric Co. said it signed an accord in Beijing on Thursday that begins procurement on the $5.3 billion nuclear power deal announced with the Chinese government in December. Monroeville-based Westinghouse and its consortium partner, The Shaw Group, of Baton Rouge, signed a framework agreement with China's State Nuclear Power Technology Co. for four of Westinghouse's new AP1000 reactors. That design can bring power to more than 880,000 homes -- important to an energy-hungry nation of 1.3 billion people that hopes to build more than two dozen nuclear power plants by 2020. Westinghouse spokesman Vaughn Gilbert said the accord provides funding for Westinghouse and Shaw to begin procuring equipment for the reactors. Further contracts on the plants will be finalized later this year, with construction to begin in 2009 and the first plant to begin operating in 2013. "This is a significant milestone because it's actually funding for the project," Gilbert said. He declined to put a dollar figure on the amount conveyed to the consortium yesterday. Two of Westinghouse's plants will be built in Sanmen, in Zhejiang province on China's eastern coast near Shanghai, as announced in December. The two others are to be built in Haiyang, Shandong province, near the Yellow Sea, in a refiguring made last month to accommodate France's Areva SA. In February, Beijing unexpectedly awarded two plant locations previously considered for Westinghouse -- in Yangjiang, in southeastern Guangdong province near Hong Kong -- to Areva in a $5 billion, two-reactor deal with that company. Many observers saw it as a way to preserve China's 20-year nuclear-power relationship with France after bestowing the long-awaited contract upon Westinghouse two months earlier. Gilbert said about 50 percent of the work for the project will come from the Westinghouse-Shaw consortium's U.S. facilities, with a significant portion of that coming from Western Pennsylvania. The design and project management will come from Westinghouse's Monroeville facilities, as will the assembly of the nuclear power plants' instrumentation and control equipment, he said. Fuel rods will be manufactured at the firm's location in Blairsville, Indiana County. Shaw will provide engineering, procurement and commissioning, as well as project and information management on the Chinese project. A renewed interest -- domestically and abroad -- in nuclear energy as a cleaner burning alternative to coal-fueled power plants has prompted brisk hiring by Westinghouse. In the past two years it has hired 1,700 people companywide, and plans to add between 1,000 to 2,000 nuclear engineers in the Pittsburgh area over the next decade. About 3,000 of the firm's more than 9,000 workers are based in the region, including about 1,800 in Monroeville and 700 at the Waltz Mill maintenance facility in Madison, Westmoreland County. Still to be determined is where many of the local staffers will work. Westinghouse is continuing to weigh whether to expand its headquarters along Northern Pike in Monroeville, or to build a new facility on more than 300 acres along Route 228 in Cranberry, Butler County, which would, over the next few years, house all of its Monroeville operations. A decision is expected by March 15. ---------------- Salazar Wants Compensate Ex-Rocky Flats Workers (AP) DENVER Sen. Ken Salazar, D-Colo., reintroduced a bill Thursday that would give benefits to Rocky Flats employees who became ill after working at the former nuclear weapons plant. About 10,000 people who worked at the former nuclear weapons plant between Denver and Boulder want to be classified under a program that makes workers at a Department of Energy site immediately and automatically eligible for medical coverage and compensation. Workers wouldn't have to file individual health claims. For the past two years, the employees have been seeking a designation that would make them eligible for benefits if they suffer from a cancer linked to exposure to radiation. Salazar said that the employees are victims of inadequate or missing records and bureaucratic red tape. "Across five decades, the patriotic men and women of Rocky Flats served their country producing plutonium, one of the most dangerous substances in the world, and crafting it into the triggers for America's nuclear arsenal," Salazar said. Rep. Mark Udall, D-Colo., has introduced a similar bill in the House Rep. Ed Perlmutter, D-Colo., is a co-sponsor. In 2002, Congress approved the Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation Program Act to expedite financial and medical benefits for the country's Cold War-era veterans. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health recommended against the petition filed by Rocky Flats workers. The agency said it's feasible to determine in individual cases whether an employee's exposure to radioactive materials can be tied to an illness. The United Steelworkers of America, the union that represented Rocky Flats workers, has said the records can't adequately establish those connections. Rocky Flats made plutonium triggers for nuclear warheads until 1992, when it was shut down because of safety concerns. The $7 billion cleanup of the 6,420-acre site was declared complete last fall. Energy Department officials have said the site is ready for conversion to a national wildlife refuge, expected by 2008. --------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Fri Mar 2 18:49:51 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 01:49:51 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c75d2d$dfb6d040$49197254@pc1> Neil, You are obviously a US citizen, I wonder whether you will receive any such hateful and ridiculous reply from Mr. Perle which I did....... I think we had in Europe rather good safety procedures, which could of course not prevent single events like the Lockerbie case. BTW I flew the same day from the USA to London and after having checked in to my hotel and according to the habit acquired after two months USA I turned on the TV and immediately got the news about this catastrophe. Well, I did not feel, that I had probably escaped a similar fate and of course I continued my flight next day to Vienna. I mentioned already that I flew a few days after September 11 to Brussels and a week later back. I flew together with my younger son a few weeks later to Honolulu and again a few weeks later back to Vienna. I think that somebody who is all the time using probabilities to contract cancer from radionuclide exposure should apply the principle of probability in his personal life. I do it, but obviously many others don't do it at RADSAFE. Sorry to say, I do not regard my own life, nor of others as being worth to spend billions of USD for questionable safety features. The latest story about the liquids attempted to produce explosives on the airplane as published in Great Britain has since led to some chaos at European airports, of which I was many times affected last year. Women had to discard their very expensive perfumes, children had to discard their Coke, tooth paste, hand moisturing cremes etc. etc. had to be discarded. After the control, big signs advertised, that all parfumes, beverages, tooth pastes, cremes etc. could be paid at the shops in this area...... I was joking, when I was forced to take off my shoes and my belt at the check in, that the next step will be that we have to take off our clothes - I knew then already about the US attempts. O.k., now we have it. On a cost/benefit basis, these measures are not justified. I wait for an analysis of this, but I suppose that nobody in the USA will dare to do it, because this would so obviously contradict the political intentions of the government. I wish you happy flights in the future! Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Neill Stanford Gesendet: Samstag, 03. M?rz 2007 00:52 An: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Hey Sandy, But Richard Reed was 1) flying on AA, 2) flying in 2001. I am talking about the interview process used for decades by El Al and recently (I noticed it in Amsterdam last Nov) for EU to USA flights. I'm all for effective technology, but shudder when I think of the cost benefit analysis of the measures put in place over the past 5 years. [But then, I also think the instructions and equipment dealing with a "ditch over water" are a big waste of time.] My point was that in this country we rely almost solely on machines. Machines operated by under-paid and under-trained people. While other countries put more emphasis on better-trained better-paid individuals. Very subjectively, I feel a lot safer going through that process than I ever have flying from a US airport. Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:21 PM To: 'Neill Stanford'; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Hi Neill, The interviews are a good practice. However I look at each technique as complimentary to another technique. Recall that Richard Reed walked through the interview process, and if he had tried to use a lighter instead of a match, that AA flight would have been blown to pieces over the Atlantic. We need multiple layers of security, recognizing that we will never stop a dedicated well-trained group from finally succeeding in implementing their reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because something won't stop 100% of the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential use. The body scanners will detect most weapons, but not all. The interview may catch many, but not all. We need better technology, but nothing will be full-proof. While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour flight, I can assure you that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and better than I did 5 years ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from now. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to develop and implement new technologies to approach 100%, even though we will never get there. There will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Neill Stanford [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags None of the new technologies make me feel safer. Every new one inspires me to think of how easily motivated people could get around them. We remove our laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one checks the piles of electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, battery packs, chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz bottles of liquid or gel but what is to stop a group from combining them once on board? These systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, clever bad guys know how to get around them. What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the detailed personal interview at the gate that many European airports have implemented for flights to the USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. Well-trained interviewers asking questions designed to catch you off guard, and observing reactions. Much more effective than the parroted "were you in possession of the bags since..." Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 19:09:47 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 17:09:47 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] an Apology to Franz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5AB@gdses.corp.gds.com> I apologize to Franz for any comments that implied that he either was, is, or sympathized with the Nazis and their philosophy. The comment was uncalled for. Sandy Perle From syd.levine at mindspring.com Fri Mar 2 19:29:44 2007 From: syd.levine at mindspring.com (Syd H. Levine) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 20:29:44 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] if you want to talk about Nazism... References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A2@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <000801c75d33$6edbc3c0$0100a8c0@House> I also lost relatives at in the death camps. I find Franz's invocation offensive and disingenuous. Further, I am sick and tired of the politically correct trashing of the US he constantly engages in. I humorously reminded Franz that he would be speaking German but for US involvement in WWII, but that little joke was lost on him. But the truth of the matter is that Europeans owe the US everything, and ought to own up to it. Syd H. Levine AnaLog Services, Inc. Phone: (270) 276-5671 Telefax: (270) 276-5588 E-mail: analog at logwell.com Web URL: www.logwell.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Perle" To: "'Franz Sch?nhofer'" ; "'John Jacobus'" ; ; "'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)'" Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] if you want to talk about Nazism... > Franz, so, you've visited Auschwitz. I'm impressed. You've visited this > death camp. I've lost relatives there. So keep your opinions to yourself! > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From LNMolino at aol.com Fri Mar 2 19:34:33 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 20:34:33 EST Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Message-ID: In a message dated 3/2/2007 7:22:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, franz.schoenhofer at chello.at writes: The latest story about the liquids attempted to produce explosives on the airplane as published in Great Britain has since led to some chaos at European airports, of which I was many times affected last year. Women had to discard their very expensive perfumes, children had to discard their Coke, tooth paste, hand moisturing cremes etc. etc. had to be discarded. After the control, big signs advertised, that all parfumes, beverages, tooth pastes, cremes etc. could be paid at the shops in this area...... Mr. Schoenhofer (as you seemingly would prefer to be address I hope I spelled it right and that you are acceptable to this salutation?) In respect to the above comment I'd like to know YOUR qualifications in the area of binary (or more) chemical explosives? Thank you. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From Efforrer at aol.com Fri Mar 2 19:41:49 2007 From: Efforrer at aol.com (Efforrer at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 20:41:49 EST Subject: [ RadSafe ] Anyone know who this is? Message-ID: I got a for you only not the list email regarding my views on privacy rights during certain situations. It was not signed and the writer equated my views with those Hitler and his SS would have espoused. While I agree that everyone is entitled their opinion it bothers me when people do it from the shadows. the email was _tdc at xrayted.com_ (mailto:tdc at xrayted.com) . Just curious who it was. Gene Forrer


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Fri Mar 2 19:57:42 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 02:57:42 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] if you want to talk about Nazism... In-Reply-To: <000801c75d33$6edbc3c0$0100a8c0@House> Message-ID: <000c01c75d37$59b4e400$49197254@pc1> Syd, you are late to respond. If you find my "invocation offensive and disingenuous" I can only answer that I find recently more than enough "offensive and disingenuous" messages on RADSAFE, which seem to be "justified" by political propaganda. What you call "politically correct trashing of the USA" seems to be a process, which is backed not only by more than half of this worlds governments, but even according to US standards by probably more than half of the US population. Your reference to your "humorously reminding me that I would speak German, but for US involvement in WWII" I answered as far as I remember that I speak German as rougly estimated 95% of Austrians do. This was not a little joke but an offence - ignored by me. If you did not understand this answer, blame it on your lack of knowledge. Especially regarding Auschwitz it is well known, that the Allies knew about this annihilation camp ("death camp" is in my opinion a "politically correct" belittlement). No, no more discussion on that. Get back to Radiation Protection and RADSAFE topics - if you want to discuss on the Nazi history, send mails to my private mail. Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Syd H. Levine [mailto:syd.levine at mindspring.com] Gesendet: Samstag, 03. M?rz 2007 02:30 An: sandyfl at cox.net; 'Franz Sch?nhofer'; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] if you want to talk about Nazism... I also lost relatives at in the death camps. I find Franz's invocation offensive and disingenuous. Further, I am sick and tired of the politically correct trashing of the US he constantly engages in. I humorously reminded Franz that he would be speaking German but for US involvement in WWII, but that little joke was lost on him. But the truth of the matter is that Europeans owe the US everything, and ought to own up to it. Syd H. Levine AnaLog Services, Inc. Phone: (270) 276-5671 Telefax: (270) 276-5588 E-mail: analog at logwell.com Web URL: www.logwell.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Perle" To: "'Franz Sch?nhofer'" ; "'John Jacobus'" ; ; "'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)'" Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] if you want to talk about Nazism... > Franz, so, you've visited Auschwitz. I'm impressed. You've visited this > death camp. I've lost relatives there. So keep your opinions to yourself! > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 21:32:52 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:32:52 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Canada sees possible nuclear renaissance Message-ID: <45E87BE4.7967.24E606EC@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: Canada sees possible nuclear renaissance Radiation monitors will screen goods nationwide Milky Way black hole may be colossal 'particle accelerator' Veto nuclear waste bill Feds ill-prepared to deal with nuke terror, report says Los Alamos lab holds debate on nuclear fuel recycling Nevada panel warned about effort to license nuclear dump Westinghouse takes next step in China nuclear plant deal ---------------------------------------------------- Canada sees possible nuclear renaissance OTTAWA (Reuters) - Concern over global warming has breathed new life into Canada's nuclear industry, which is eyeing the possibility of its first new plants in the country in a quarter century, industry officials said on Thursday. "The climate change driver is so compelling a case that the nuclear file becomes a critical part of the solution," Duncan Hawthorne, chairman of the Canadian Nuclear Association and chief executive of Bruce Power, told Reuters. Though atomic energy always raises the question of what to do with nuclear waste, its attraction in terms of the climate change debate is that it emits none of the greenhouse gases that are blamed for global warming. Officials said Canada's "nuclear renaissance" had created a challenge for companies and regulators to hire enough qualified workers, particularly as the workforce ages. Bruce Power as well as Ontario Power Generation, which is owned by the Ontario government, have begun the applications process or new power plants on separate sites in Ontario. The head of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, Linda Keen, told a nuclear conference on Thursday that her regulatory body had accepted Bruce Power's project description in just five months, at the end of January, and was now looking at a way of speeding up its environmental assessment. Keen said she would recommend to federal Environment Minister John Baird that the project go straight to a public panel rather than first going through an eight-month process to determine if an environmental assessment panel was necessary. She said the Ontario Power Generation project description, for a new site at Darlington, about 70 km (45 miles) east of Toronto, should also be dealt with expeditiously. In addition, the federal government and the private firm Energy Alberta are promoting the idea of using nuclear energy to develop Alberta's massive oil sands reserves. "If you're going to tackle climate change, you've got to do everything," Hawthorne said. "That includes energy efficiency and conservation, but it also includes a pretty significant investment in nuclear." He said that as Canada's government moves to limit greenhouse gas emissions, industries which want to continue to grow will have a natural incentive to turn to nuclear energy. In the case of Alberta's oil sands, he envisaged industry using a combination of carbon sequestration, whereby carbon dioxide is buried, and nuclear energy. Bruce Power operates six nuclear reactors on Lake Huron, about 250 km (155 miles) northwest of Toronto, and is refurbishing two more, which are due to come on line in 2009. Bruce will then have more than 6,000 megawatts of capacity. The major partners in the operation are uranium miner Cameco Corp. and pipeline company TransCanada Corp.. The power plants are divided into Bruce A and Bruce B stations, with four reactors each. All four Bruce B units and one in Bruce A will need to be refurbished or replaced between 2015 and 2020. Hawthorne said it was possible, if Ontario authorities call for more power, for the company to both refurbish the Bruce B reactors as well as build the new units for which it has started seeking regulatory approval. However, Bruce is limited by transmission capacity to get its power to market. Transmission upgrades are planned at least to take the extra electricity that will be made by the two refurbished Bruce A units starting in 2009. The company hopes that if it does decide to build some or all of the new 1,000-MW units it will start within three years and finish five years later -- by 2015 or 2016 -- just as the first Bruce B units are due to be retired or refurbished. --------------- Radiation monitors will screen goods nationwide (Richmond Times-Dispatch) Mar 2- U.S. Customs and Border Protection is installing radiation portal monitors nationwide -- at seaports, borders, rail crossings and international airports. The goal is to screen all incoming goods, people and vehicles for radiation. According to the agency's Web site, "Nuclear and radiological materials are of particular concern because of their potential to harm large numbers of people and disrupt the U.S. economy." No nuclear or radioactive devices have been found, but the agency reports investigating more than 800,000 alarms since 2002. Radiation detection portals -- permanent and mobile -- have been in place at Virginia Port Authority facilities in Hampton Roads for more than five years. They scan an average of 5,000 vehicles a day, including cars and trucks of port employees, according to the authority. The portable radiation trucks were put in use at the port in Richmond in January because it was not high on the government's priority list for potential terrorist attacks, the Customs and Border Protection agency said. ------------- Milky Way black hole may be colossal 'particle accelerator' (UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA NEWS RELEASE) Mar 2 - Scientists were startled when they discovered in 2004 that the center of our galaxy is emitting gamma rays with energies in the tens of trillions of electronvolts. Now astrophysicists at The University of Arizona, Los Alamos National Laboratory and the University of Adelaide (Australia) have discovered a mechanism that might produce these high-energy gamma rays. The black hole at the center of our Milky Way could be working like a cosmic particle accelerator, revving up protons that smash at incredible speeds into lower energy protons and creating high-energy gamma rays, they report. "It's similar to the same kind of particle physics experiments that the Large Hadron Collider being built at CERN will perform," UA astrophysicist David Ballantyne said. When complete, the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland will be able to accelerate protons to seven trillion electronvolts. Our galaxy's black hole whips protons to energies as much as 100 trillion electrovolts, according to the team's new study. That's all the more impressive because "Our black hole is pretty inactive compared to massive black holes sitting in other galaxies," Ballantyne noted. Ballantyne collaborated with UA astrophysics Professor Fulvio Melia in the new study published in Astrophysical Journal Letters. For the last several years, Melia has been developing a theory of what may be going on very close to the Milky Way's black hole. Melia and his group find that powerful, chaotic magnetic fields accelerate protons and other particles near the black hole to extremely high energies. "Our galaxy's central supermassive object has been a constant source of surprise ever since it's discovery some 30 years ago," Melia said. "Slowly but surely it has become the best studied and most compelling black hole in the universe. Now we're even finding that its apparent quietness over much of the spectrum belies the real power it generates a mere breath above its event horizon---the point of no return." Melia said that the Milky Way black hole "is one of the most energetic particle accelerators in the galaxy, but it does this by proxy, by cajoling the magnetized plasma haplessly trapped within its clutches into slinging protons to unearthly speeds." Ballantyne used detailed, realistic maps of interstellar gas extending 10 light years beyond the black hole in modeling whether accelerated protons launched from the galactic center would produce gamma rays. "We calculated very exactly how the protons would travel in this medium, taking into account specifically the magnetic force that changes the protons' trajectories," he said. The team calculated 222,000 proton trajectories for a statistically solid study. Even though the protons move close to the speed of light, their motion is so random that it takes several thousand years for the particles to travel beyond 10 light years of the black hole. After the high-energy protons escape the black hole environment, they fly off into the interstellar medium, where they collide with low-energy protons (hydrogen gas) in a smash-up so energetic that particles called 'pions' form. These particles of matter quickly decay into high-energy gamma rays that, like other radiation, travel in all directions. Ballantyne, Melia and and their colleagues found that this process can explain the energy spectrum and brightness of gamma-ray emission that astronomers observe. Researchers detect the high-energy gamma- ray emission with ground-based telescopes at Namibia, Africa, at Whipple Observatory in southeastern Arizona, and elsewhere. Only 31 percent of the 222,000 proton trajectories in their sample produced gamma rays within 10 light years of the black hole, Ballantyne said. The other 69 percent escape to greater distances, where presumably they, too, will interact in gamma ray-generating collisions. "Astronomers do, indeed, observe a glow of very-high energy gamma- rays from the inner regions of the galaxy," Ballantyne said. "It's possible that this emission is also caused by protons accelerated close to the central black hole." "Ironically, even though our galaxy's central black hole does not itself abundantly eject hyper-relativistic plasma into the surrounding medium, this discovery may indirectly explain how the most powerful black holes in the universe, including quasars, produce their enormous jets extending over intergalactic proportions. The same particle slinging almost certainly occurs in all black-hole systems, though with much greater power earlier in the universe," Melia said. Ballantyne holds UA's Theoretical Astrophysics Program Prize Postdoctoral Fellowship. The university's Theoretical Astrophysics Program, organized in 1985, is an interdisciplinary program of the UA departments of physics, astronomy and planetary sciences. A National Science Foundation grant funded this research. -------------- Veto nuclear waste bill (Daily Herald) Feb 27 - One of the bills sitting on Gov. Huntsman's desk is arguably the worst to emerge from this year's Legislature. It involves the way radioactive waste is approved or denied in Utah. For the sake of all Utahns, Hunstman should veto Senate Bill 155 and preserve the current system of oversight of elected officials when it comes to the expansion of a radioactive waste dump. The bill, sponsored by Nephi Republican Sen. Darrin Peterson, is nothing but a cheap way for the Legislature and governor to avoid a political hot potato -- a potato that it's their duty to handle. The bill would take elected officers out of the loop and allow state regulators to approve expansion requests that do not exceed a dump's original footprint. EnergySolutions under this scheme could find it much easier to win approval for doubling the height of its dump in Clive. All it would need is a simple OK from the state's Radiation Control Board instead of approval through the people's representatives -- the Legislature and the governor. It is no surprise that EnergySolutions would like to see elected officials taken out of the loop. The former Envirocare's last attempt to expand its waste operation was scuttled when Huntsman announced that he would not approve it. So SB 155 creates an end-run. Lower- level approval from regulators would mean that decision-making is taken away from the most important stakeholders -- ultimately the citizens of Utah. This bill is simply not in the public's best interest. More radioactive waste destined for EnergySolutions means more radioactive waste shipped by rail or truck through our communities. While EnergySolutions maintains that the material it stores is far safer than spent nuclear fuel rods proposed for Skull Valley, it is not harmless. It is dangerous enough that the EnergySolutions goes to great lengths to check its employees for radiation exposure. It is dangerous enough that two people who crashed through the dump's fence in a stolen car recently, and two Utah Highway Patrol troopers who responded to the accident, needed to be screened for radiation exposure. Do we really want more of this stuff out there, seeping into our soil and water? No. Nor do we want to be fending off proposal after proposal to increase the storage volume or the level of radiation accepted. When business sees a profit to be made, it is relentless. The history of nuclear waste storage in Utah provides a classic example of how big money nibbles away at political resolve. Utahns want to see their state marketed as a healthy, wholesome place to do business and raise a family. They do not desire a reputation as a radioactive dumping ground. Making it easier to dump this poison is not the best way to promote Utah to the world. The two most important reasons to keep the Legislature and the governor in the loop are to keep the process accountable to the people and to maintain integrity in the permitting process. EnergySolutions, in its life as Envirocare, was involved in an ugly incident in which then-owner Khosrow Semnani was accused of bribing the state director of radiation control to get approval to operate the dump. Semnani claimed that Larry Anderson demanded money in return for granting Envirocare the necessary approvals. Semnani paid a fine for not reporting the payments on his income tax while Anderson went to jail for tax evasion. Do we really want to create a climate that could increase such temptations for businesses and officials? Do we want them cutting ethical corners to advance a project? No. Yet that is the prospect if the governor signs SB 155. He must not do it. The Legislature and the governor should stand accountable to the people on this vital issue. They should not shrink from their duty. ------------ Feds ill-prepared to deal with nuke terror, report says WASHINGTON (McClatchy Newspapers) Mar 2 -- Although the Bush administration has warned repeatedly about the threat of a terrorist nuclear attack and spent more than $300 billion to protect the homeland, the government remains ill-prepared to respond to a nuclear catastrophe. Experts and federal documents suggest that, absent a major preparedness push, the U.S. response to a mushroom cloud could be worse than the Hurricane Katrina debacle, possibly contributing to civil disorder and costing thousands of lives. "The United States is unprepared to mitigate the consequences of a nuclear attack," Pentagon analyst John Brinkerhoff concluded in a July 31, 2005, draft of a confidential memo to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. "We were unable to find any group or office with a coherent approach to this very important aspect of homeland security. ... "This is a bad situation. The threat of a nuclear attack is real, and action is needed now to learn how to deal with one." Col. Jill Morgenthaler, Illinois' director of homeland security, said there was a "disconnect" between President Bush's and Vice President Dick Cheney's nuclear threat talk and the administration's actions. "I don't see money being focused on actual response and mitigation to a nuclear threat," she said. Interviews by McClatchy Newspapers with more than 15 radiation and emergency preparedness experts and a review of internal documents revealed: The government has yet to launch an educational program, akin to the Cold War-era civil defense campaign promoting fallout shelters, to teach Americans how to shield themselves from radiation, especially from the fallout plume, which could deposit deadly particles as far as 100 miles from Ground Zero. Analysts estimate that as many as 300,000 emergency workers would be needed after a nuclear attack, but predict that the radiation would scare many of them away from the disaster. Hospital emergency rooms wouldn't be able to handle the surge of people who were irradiated, or the many more who feared that they were. Medical teams would have to improvise to treat what could be tens of thousands of burn victims because most cities have only one or two available burn-unit beds. Cham Dallas, director of the University of Georgia's Center for Mass Destruction Defense, called the predicament "the worst link in our health care wall." Several drugs are in development, and one is especially promising, but the government hasn't acquired any significant new medicine to counteract radiation's devastating effects on victims' blood-forming bone marrow. Over the past three years, several federal agencies have taken some nuclear disaster planning steps. The Department of Health and Human Services has drawn up "playbooks" for a range of attack scenarios and created a Web site to instruct emergency responders in treating radiation victims. The Energy Department's Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory is geared to use real-time weather data, within minutes of a bombing, to create a computer model that charts the likely path of a radioactive fallout plume, so the government can warn affected people to take shelter or evacuate. The government also has modeled likely effects in blast zones. Capt. Ann Knebel, the U.S. Public Health Service's deputy preparedness chief, said her agency is using the models to understand how many people in different zones would suffer from blast injuries, burns or radiation sickness, "and to begin to match our resources to the types of injuries." The government's National Planning Scenario, which isn't public, projects that a relatively small, improvised 10-kiloton bomb could kill hundreds of thousands in a medium-sized city and cause hundreds of billions of dollars in economic losses. The document, last updated in April 2005, projects that a bomb detonated at ground level in Washington, D.C., would kill as many as 204,600 people, including many government officials, and would injure or sicken 90,800. Another 24,580 victims would die of radiation- related cancer in ensuing years. Radioactive debris would contaminate a 3,000-square-mile area, requiring years-long cleanup, it said. Mr. Brinkerhoff, author of the confidential memo for the Joint Chiefs, estimated that nearly 300,000 National Guardsmen, military reservists and civil emergency personnel would be needed to rescue, decontaminate, process and manage the 1.5 million evacuees. The job would include cordoning off the blast zone and manning a 200-mile perimeter around the fallout area to process and decontaminate victims, turn others away from the danger and maintain order. Mr. Brinkerhoff estimated that the military would need to provide 140,000 of the 300,000 responders, but doubted that the Pentagon would have that many. The Public Health Service's Capt. Knebel cited studies suggesting that the "fear factor" would reduce civil emergency responders by more than 30 percent. The U.S. intelligence community considers it a "fairly remote" possibility that terrorists will obtain weapons-grade plutonium or highly enriched uranium, which is more accessible, to build a nuclear weapon, said a senior intelligence official, who requested anonymity because of the information's sensitivity. The official said intelligence agencies worry mainly about a makeshift, radioactive "dirty bomb" that would kill, at most, a few hundred people, contaminate part of a city and spread panic. But concerns about a larger nuclear attack are increasing as North Korea is testing atomic arms and Iran is believed to be pursuing them. Al-Qaida's worldwide terrorist network also reportedly has been reconstituted. -------------- Los Alamos lab holds debate on nuclear fuel recycling LOS ALAMOS, N.M. Some retired Los Alamos National Laboratory scientists are praising a Bush administration plan to expand worldwide nuclear energy production. Other former Los Alamos scientists are calling the plan unworkable. The U-S Department of Energy initiative could bring nuclear facilities to three New Mexico locations, including Los Alamos where a public hearing was held yesterday. Los Alamos is being considered for a research facility under the plan. Roswell and Hobbs are in the running for a recycling center and reactor. The federal government wants to recycle spent nuclear fuel and reduce the amount of waste requiring permanent disposal. The government plans to release a draft report of environmental impacts this summer. Public comments are being accepted through April Fourth. -------------- Nevada panel warned about effort to license nuclear dump CARSON CITY, Nev Feb 28 - A Nevada panel fighting a proposed Yucca Mountain dump for nuclear waste was told Wednesday that project backers face big obstacles but are still seeking approval of the dump and of rail shipping routes - including one through downtown Reno and Sparks. The warning to the Nevada Commission on Nuclear Projects prompted its chairman, Richard Bryan, a former state governor and U.S. senator, to say, ``This is no time to sit back and assume everything will unfold ... in our favor.'' Bob Halstead, a transportation adviser to the commission, said rail shipments through the Reno-Sparks area would have a huge impact on commercial and residential properties near the route - possibly lowering their combined value by well over $1 billion. Asked after the commission meeting why Nevada must press its fight against the dump, Halstead said, ``We've driven a stake through this vampire's heart three or four times - and each time he stands up and says, 'Yucca Mountain.''' Halstead added that while U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D- Nev., has promised to block the Department of Energy's Yucca Mountain project, which already has cost at least $9 billion, Nevada remains the No. 1 target because no other states want to take high-level radioactive waste. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman said Feb. 5 that the DOE will prepare an application to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for a license for the dump, about 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas, by June 2008. President Bush has asked Congress for nearly $500 million to allow completion of the application. Originally scheduled to open in 1998, the dump has been set back repeatedly by lawsuits, money shortfalls and scientific controversies. The DOE's current best-case opening date for the dump, which would hold 77,000 tons of waste, is 2017. In his remarks to the commission, Halstead said some trains from waste-producing power plants would run on tracks parallel to Interstate 80 in northern Nevada, coming from the east and the west. Trains from the west would run through downtown Reno and Sparks. The trains would then run south to Yucca Mountain along a route near U.S. 95, which goes through several rural towns including Schurz, Hawthorne, Mina, Tonopah and Goldfield. Halstead said the DOE's estimated cost of upgrading rail routes and laying new track is $1.6 billion - but he termed that ``a made-up number.'' Also speaking at the commission meeting was Sparks City Manager Shaun Carey, who said the DOE rejected a request for a hearing on the rail route. He said the route is of particular concern for his city, since it's home to a major rail operations yard. Bob Loux, head of the state's Agency for Nuclear Projects, said it looks like the DOE wants to ``deliberately keep people in northern Nevada out of the process.'' DOE spokesman Allen Benson said a preliminary hearing on rail routes was held at the University of Nevada, Reno in late November, adding, ``I don't know much closer we could get to Sparks City Hall.'' He said additional hearings will be held in northern Nevada in the future. ``We're years away from routes,'' he added. ``We haven't settled on any routes. Our focus is on completing and submitting the licensing application.'' Benson also said the federal government has been hauling nuclear waste by truck for half a century with no problems. --------------- Westinghouse takes next step in China nuclear plant deal Westinghouse Electric Co.Mar 1 signed an agreement with officials in China Thursday that is the latest significant contractual step in the company's quest to build four nuclear power plants in that country. Neither the company nor officials in China are reporting the value of the deal, but analysts place the value of the deal for delivery of four Westinghouse AP1000 reactors at between $5 billion and $8 billion. The framework agreement signed in Beijing was with officers of China's state Nuclear Power Technology Company, officials with Westinghouse and their U.S. partner on the project, the Baton Rouge, La.-based Shaw Group Inc. The framework agreement provides such things as funding for long lead materials and early engineering. Final contracts on the four plants are scheduled to be finalized by mid-year. Over the next 25 to 30 years, Westinghouse expects to play a significant role in the construction of as many as 26 additional nuclear power plants in China. Along with the Chinese contract, Westinghouse has been selected to build as many as 12 nuclear power plants by energy consortiums in the Southeast. Westinghouse's plans are good news for local employment numbers, as the company is on pace to house as many as 2,000 new engineers in Southwestern Pennsylvania over the next five years. The company is currently deliberating between sites in Monroeville and Cranberry for a new engineering campus. Spokesman Vaughn Gilbert said Thursday that the company will be making an announcement on its site selection in the next two weeks. --------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Fri Mar 2 23:18:06 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 00:18:06 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Anyone know who this is? References: Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F26A@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> It's Ted de Castro. He's top notch technically. He's pretty blunt on social "science" and policy "foibles." I suspect he expects that most people know him, so he's really not trying to hide himself. :-) Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Efforrer at aol.com Sent: Fri 3/2/2007 8:41 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Anyone know who this is? I got a for you only not the list email regarding my views on privacy rights during certain situations. It was not signed and the writer equated my views with those Hitler and his SS would have espoused. While I agree that everyone is entitled their opinion it bothers me when people do it from the shadows. the email was _tdc at xrayted.com_ (mailto:tdc at xrayted.com) . Just curious who it was. Gene Forrer


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sat Mar 3 10:43:42 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 08:43:42 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Radiation studies to be expanded around Indian Point Message-ID: <45E9353E.18145.27BA0D53@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: Radiation studies to be expanded around Indian Point Coal-fired and nuclear power necessary, says Energy Ministry EDF's nuclear internationalization plans likely to succeed What if Every Nuclear Power Plant in the U.S. was Shut Down McCain tells Utahns he backs nuclear storage Nevada panel warned about effort to license nuclear dump Exelon, taxing bodies spar over valuation of Clinton Power Station ------------------------------------------------ Radiation studies to be expanded around Indian Point PLEASANTVILLE (THE JOURNAL NEWS) Mar 3 - State environmental regulators plan to broaden their scientific studies of fish and other wildlife in the vicinity of Indian Point, to better determine how radiation leaks at the Buchanan nuclear plants are affecting the Hudson River's ecosystem. A group of state health and environment officials announced the expanded studies yesterday, while participating in a Pace University roundtable discussion of tritium and strontium 90 leaks at Indian Point. The first leak was discovered in August 2005, and Indian Point engineers are still trying to determine the source and extent of radiated water that is seeping into the ground at the site. "We're going to sample more locations and more fish species, and we're going to analyze the flesh and the bone of the fish," said Barbara Youngberg, director of state's Department of Environmental Radiation Bureau. "We're probably going to start taking those in the spring and summer." Youngberg spoke, along with state health and environmental conservation officials, as part of a program sponsored by the Hudson River Sloop Clearwater, Pace's Academy for the Environment and the Indian Point Safe Energy Coalition. In mid-January, the owner of the nuclear plants, Entergy Nuclear Northeast, found traces of strontium 90 in four of 12 fish sampled as part of the company's required fish testing. The fish were caught during the summer of 2006 in two areas of the Hudson River, around the plant itself and near the Newburgh-Beacon Bridge. At the time, federal regulators said no other radioactive isotopes were found in the fish. Within days, state Department of Environmental Conservation officials said the amounts of the radioactive isotopes were "background levels" that could be found in fish in any part of the river. Yesterday's four-hour seminar covered the leaks from a variety of angles, including how water moves underground and which state and federal agencies should have jurisdiction over the pollution. Federal, state and county elected officials participated, and representatives of local municipalities were in the audience. Representatives of Indian Point, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency were invited to attend, but did not participate. The federal agencies sent observers, but Entergy, which owns the two working nuclear reactors, declined, saying the nongovernment participants were avowed opponents of the plant and the nuclear industry. Based on the applause for various statements made, it appeared that most of the 100-plus people in the audience of the Willcox Gymnasium were opponents as well. Ward Stone, a wildlife pathologist for the state Department of Environmental Conservation, said he would expand the examination of wildlife in the area to include snapping turtles, frogs and deer, as Assemblyman Richard Brodsky, D-Greenburgh, requested during his remarks. "The turtles and frogs stay around," Stone said during a break. He added that one test he was interested in doing was to cage and monitor fish in certain areas of the river, to "see what they pick up." Youngberg said the radiation levels that have been found in the Hudson River by the state so far are a tiny fraction of what is allowed. "It is in concentrations of less than 1 percent of the limit that we would apply for any facility discharging strontium 90 or tritium," she said. "There are no significant impacts offsite whatsoever." She said her agency will continue to monitor the leaks' impact on the environment. The NRC, the state Department of Health and Entergy have all agreed to participate in the additional sampling. Assemblywoman Ellen Jaffee, D-Suffern, who has called for closing Indian Point, said the extra studies were needed. Tim Rice, a DEC researcher who has been working on the Indian Point leaks almost since they were discovered, said the agency will continue to use the Newburgh-Beacon area as a control site, but will expand the specimen collection as far north as Catskill, N.Y., a distance of about 90 miles. Rice said taking fish from so far away should help determine if fish and blue crabs that will be tested are absorbing radiation from the atmosphere or from the reactors. He estimated that some results of the sampling should be available by the fall. -------------- Coal-fired and nuclear power necessary, says Energy Ministry BANGKOK, March 3 (TNA) - It will be difficult for Thailand to avoid counting on coal-fired and nuclear power plants in the future since natural gas is rarely found and in limited supply, according to the kingdom's Ministry of Energy. Deputy Permanent Secretary for Energy Nokun Sitthiphong said the ministry had recently organised a forum where around 80 academics and representatives of non-governmental organisations participated to discuss and exchange views on consumption of alternative energy such as natural gas, coal, and nuclear in the future, and a power development plan proposed by NGOs. The meeting found Thailand might experience a power shortage if it adhered to the power development plan (PDP). Under the plan prepared by NGOs last year, the country's power demand per month is expected to peak at 18,000 megawatts. But according to reliable information from other sources, the actual maximum demand considerably higher at 21,064 megawatts. Even in February, which is Thailand's 'winter' period (meaning that there is less demand for air-conditioning than in hotter months), the demand increased to 20,592 megawatts and is expected to peak at 22,567 megawatts. Because of this, it is difficult for Thailand to avoid relying on coal and nuclear energy for power generation because it is too risky to count solely on natural gas. According to data provided by Thailand's oil and gas conglomerate PTT Plc, natural gas supplies from the Gulf of Thailand and joint petroleum development areas with neighbouring countries could be supplied at 4 billion cubic feet per day while consumption is 2.1 billion. At the same time, the country purchases 1 billion cubic feet of natural gas from Myanmar. So, should Thailand need to consume more natural gas, it must import liquefied natural gas (LPG). However, since imports are probably limited to 10 million tonnees per year, it is worrying that the supply would not be enough for a new power plant. "Natural gas is very unlikely to be sufficient for a new power plant. So, nuclear power is one of the alternative choices. Equally important, consumption of nuclear power can help relieve the problem of a warmer global climate," he said. (TNA)-E005 ------------ EDF's nuclear internationalization plans likely to succeed EDF's plans to invest and partner in new build nuclear capacity projects around the world are a judicious move given its status as one of the world's leading nuclear power players. However, the attractions and prospects in its four target markets vary considerably. 'Content EDF has stated its intention to become a world leader in the development of nuclear power projects. The plans, which emerged at the company's recent annual financial briefing, involve focusing on project developments in four key markets. The exact form the development of these plans will take is yet to be defined, but the company has stated that it is likely to be based on both construction and operation partnerships, as well as direct investment. Aside from a desire to harness its expertise in nuclear power to create further revenue streams, the decision to seek a greater role in plant development is likely to be part of EDF's response to the impact of the Power Directive. While EDF has done well in holding onto the bulk of its market share in the wake of the first phase of market opening arising from the Electricity Directive, it is certain to be seeking ways to mitigate the revenue loss resulting from new entrants to the French market. This is becoming increasingly important given that full market opening will take place in July 2007. The four markets EDF is targeting - China, South Africa, the UK and the US - each have their own specific attractions to EDF, although present differing challenges. Development of nuclear capacity in China is a particularly sound strategy given the rapid and continued demand growth for energy in the country. Over the past five years, primary energy demand in China has grown at an annualized rate of around 10%, far ahead of the global average of 2.6%. Within this context, electricity demand has shown similarly rapid expansion. With strong economic growth set to continue, the rapid growth in power demand seen in recent years is unlikely to diminish. The attractions of China for EDF also lie in the fact that nuclear capacity makes up a very small proportion of the generation mix. Fossil fuels, particularly coal, make up the vast majority of currently installed capacity with hydro also playing a key role. The combination of rapid demand growth, growing environmental-related disincentives to burn coal and a resultant need for new capacity mean that new build nuclear capacity in China has significant potential to be highly lucrative for EDF. In the US, nuclear capacity is already well established and accounts for around 21% of installed capacity. Given that the US accounts for around 22% of all the energy used in the world, yet just 4.6% of the world's population, the potential market size is significant. However, despite this, developing nuclear projects in the US is unlikely to be as easy as some of EDF's other target markets. New build nuclear capacity has undergone something of a hiatus in recent years, with fossil fuels higher up the political agenda. Meanwhile, with just one installed nuclear facility, the 1,800MW Koeberg plant, nuclear power is very much on the fringes in South Africa. Instead, the country's vast coal reserves dominate the generation mix. However, the prospects for new build capacity remain significant given the demand growth, albeit steady rather than dramatic growth, and the need to diversify the generation mix away from coal. Finally, with a well established place for nuclear technology in the energy mix, a pressing need to construct new capacity and a recent statement by British Energy that it is seeking partners for new build capacity, the UK would appear to be a key target for EDF's nuclear plans. However, the situation is clouded by the considerable uncertainty that exists with regard to UK nuclear policy. Decommissioning issues and the guarantees investors are keen to see from the government remain opaque, meaning that EDF, or indeed other investors, are unlikely to be willing to make large-scale investments until these issues are clarified. EDF's expertise and experience in nuclear capacity derive from its long history as a nuclear power producer in its home market and the highly established nature of nuclear technology in France. As such, it is particularly well placed to exploit the commercial opportunities in nuclear technology not only in the four markets it has expressed an interest in, but also further afield. ------------- Stunning New Novel Explores What Would Happen if Every Nuclear Power Plant in the U.S. was Shut Down A zealot creates an energy crisis that puts the country in turmoil in Peter A. Thonet's timely thriller, Magnum Opus. San Francisco, CA (PRWEB) March 3, 2007 -- Magnum Opus, Peter A. Thonet's thrilling new novel, tackles a terrifying scenario: all nuclear power plants in the America have stopped working, the military is at a loss to help, and even the president must yield to a new kind of unimaginable terror. Magnum Opus, a provocative and relevant novel by Peter A. Thonet, imagines the next terrifying step in the energy crisis currently plaguing the United States. Disgusted with the ease in which politicians ignore the future of energy, Thonet's protagonist is determined to set things right. But he doesn't expect a formidable new adversary: a young San Franciscan sugar cane heir, who fights him at every turn. Written with probing intelligence in clear, lucid prose, Magnum Opus is a fictional story grounded in truth. Thrillingly told, the book offers not just a terrific page-turning read, but a warning: unless the energy question is addressed, and soon, the United States will walk headfirst into unavoidable disaster. ------------- McCain tells Utahns he backs nuclear storage (Deseret Morning News) - Arizona Sen. John McCain said Friday he supports high-level nuclear waste storage in Nevada - even though Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. praised McCain as the only GOP presidential candidate who understands Western issues. Laura Seitz, Deseret Morning NewsArizona Sen. John McCain speaks to the media in Salt Lake City on Friday. "I believe we can transport waste safely," he said. Huntsman, along with most elected officials and voters in the West, opposes the proposed Yucca Mountain facility, citing concerns about radioactive waste being transported through Utah and other states on its way to the site. But McCain mocked a question about the dangers of transporting nuclear waste while speaking with Utah reporters. "Oh, you have to travel through states ... I am for Yucca Mountain. I'm for storage facilities. It's a lot better than sitting outside power plants all over America," he said, then added, "I don't mean to be sarcastic. I apologize. But I believe we can transport waste safely." McCain said other countries including France have shown nuclear power can be generated "safely, economically and their greenhouse gas emissions are dramatically reduced. I worry a lot more about climate change than I do about transporting nuclear waste." Huntsman introduced McCain at the mid-morning press conference held at the Grand America Hotel as the "quintessentially Western candidate ... he understands our issues and our values and that's very, very important." Afterward, Huntsman acknowledged he disagrees with McCain on transporting nuclear waste. "When it goes through your back yard I would probably reflect the concern that a lot of people have," the governor said. Huntsman is supporting McCain's presidential bid despite the popularity in Utah of another GOP candidate, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, who headed the successful 2002 Winter Olympics and is a Mormon like the majority of the state's residents. Utah's governor said McCain "has an unparalleled world view ... he understands how to put the pieces back together again." Still, Huntsman said, within the next year, "we're all going to get around whoever the Republican nominee is." McCain's overnight visit came just over a week after Romney raised more than $1 million in Salt Lake City and St. George. The current frontrunner for the Republican nomination, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, is expected in the state soon. Huntsman said the visits are a result of Utah's participation in the Western-states primary set for Feb. 5, 2008. Utah is participating at a cost of some $3.5 million, in the hopes of attracting campaign spending and candidate attention. McCain called Utah "a battleground state among Republicans" but said he didn't like so many early primaries. Spacing out the contests gives the public more time to consider the candidates, he said, adding that now, "it's pretty much over by the beginning of February." Huntsman was scheduled to appear with McCain Friday evening at a major fund-raiser in the Phoenix Convention Center that costs as much as $2,300 a person to attend. McCain arrived in Utah Thursday morning and spent time with Huntsman before attending a fund-raiser at a private Federal Heights home where he raised more than $150,000. Thursday evening, McCain headed to Deer Valley to address a group of executives from JPMorgan Chase, a global financial services firm. McCain held private meetings with a number of local supporters, reportedly collecting additional contributions. The senator responded to recent reports that some of his supporters have made anonymous, critical comments about Romney's membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, calling such actions "despicable." McCain said if that was indeed happening, he wanted to know who was responsible. "I would immediately condemn them. I would immediately make sure they had nothing to do with my campaign. It's disgraceful and dishonorable," he said. Laura Seitz, Deseret Morning NewsGov. Jon Huntsman and Sen. John McCain prepare for the press on Friday. Huntsman said McCain "has an unparalleled world view." Asked if he were trying to appeal to Mormon voters, McCain said he was trying to appeal to everybody "but not on the basis of religion, but on the basis of how I can best give them and their children a better future." ---------------- Nevada panel warned about effort to license nuclear dump CARSON CITY, Nev.(AP) Feb 28 - A Nevada panel fighting a proposed Yucca Mountain dump for nuclear waste was told Wednesday that project backers face big obstacles but are still seeking approval of the dump and of rail shipping routes - including one through downtown Reno and Sparks. The warning to the Nevada Commission on Nuclear Projects prompted its chairman, Richard Bryan, a former state governor and U.S. senator, to say, ``This is no time to sit back and assume everything will unfold ... in our favor.'' Bob Halstead, a transportation adviser to the commission, said rail shipments through the Reno-Sparks area would have a huge impact on commercial and residential properties near the route - possibly lowering their combined value by well over $1 billion. Asked after the commission meeting why Nevada must press its fight against the dump, Halstead said, ``We've driven a stake through this vampire's heart three or four times - and each time he stands up and says, 'Yucca Mountain.''' Halstead added that while U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D- Nev., has promised to block the Department of Energy's Yucca Mountain project, which already has cost at least $9 billion, Nevada remains the No. 1 target because no other states want to take high-level radioactive waste. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman said Feb. 5 that the DOE will prepare an application to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for a license for the dump, about 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas, by June 2008. President Bush has asked Congress for nearly $500 million to allow completion of the application. Originally scheduled to open in 1998, the dump has been set back repeatedly by lawsuits, money shortfalls and scientific controversies. The DOE's current best-case opening date for the dump, which would hold 77,000 tons of waste, is 2017. In his remarks to the commission, Halstead said some trains from waste-producing power plants would run on tracks parallel to Interstate 80 in northern Nevada, coming from the east and the west. Trains from the west would run through downtown Reno and Sparks. The trains would then run south to Yucca Mountain along a route near U.S. 95, which goes through several rural towns including Schurz, Hawthorne, Mina, Tonopah and Goldfield. Halstead said the DOE's estimated cost of upgrading rail routes and laying new track is $1.6 billion - but he termed that ``a made-up number.'' Also speaking at the commission meeting was Sparks City Manager Shaun Carey, who said the DOE rejected a request for a hearing on the rail route. He said the route is of particular concern for his city, since it's home to a major rail operations yard. Bob Loux, head of the state's Agency for Nuclear Projects, said it looks like the DOE wants to ``deliberately keep people in northern Nevada out of the process.'' DOE spokesman Allen Benson said a preliminary hearing on rail routes was held at the University of Nevada, Reno in late November, adding, ``I don't know much closer we could get to Sparks City Hall.'' He said additional hearings will be held in northern Nevada in the future. ``We're years away from routes,'' he added. ``We haven't settled on any routes. Our focus is on completing and submitting the licensing application.'' Benson also said the federal government has been hauling nuclear waste by truck for half a century with no problems. -------------- Exelon, taxing bodies spar over valuation of Clinton Power Station CLINTON - The taxable value of the Clinton Power Station should not include its future potential to produce power, representatives of Exelon Energy Co. told a DeWitt County tax review board Thursday. Attorneys for the utility differed with a lawyer for seven taxing bodies in the county on how the nuclear plant should be assessed. At stake is millions of dollars in tax money for local schools and other government bodies. The DeWitt County Board of Review met to hear opinions from Exelon and the taxing bodies on the most recent assessment of the plant. DeWitt County Supervisor of Assessments Sandy Moody recently placed a taxable value of $200 million on the plant. Exelon's estimates place the equalized assessed value at $168 million, but the taxing bodies estimate the value at about $202 million. The taxable value of the plant now is $100 million. Exelon's attorney, Terry Moritz, objected to the county's inclusion of a permit for a possible second reactor unit as part of the plant's value. The federal Nuclear Regulatory Commission has made no decision on the permit, which would allow the plant to add a power-generating unit in the future. "The Early Site Permit has no meaningful value to this facility," said Moritz. The potential for a second unit makes the plant more valuable to buyers, if Exelon decides to sell in the future, according to Moody. Fred Lane, attorney for the taxing bodies, told the three-member review panel that his appraiser used "the real-life approach" in arriving at the plant's taxable value. The income produced by the plant was a factor in assessing the plant's value, said Lane. He said calculations did not take into consideration the $4 billion it cost to build the Clinton plant. Exelon said Wednesday that the company has no objections to paying its fair share of property taxes in DeWitt County. Exelon's appraisal would result in a tax bill of $7.7 million, and the county's estimates would mean a tax bill of $8.5 million, according to Exelon data. Exelon spokesman Bruce Paulsen said the company is interested in a new, multiyear agreement with taxing districts. A five-year agreement expired last year, and the plant's equalized assessed value decreased to $100 million. Clinton school Superintendent Jeff Holmes attended the review hearing. The district has planned its budget around the $200 million figure. The difference between the two sides would cost the school district about $400,000, according to district estimates. The taxing board will issue its ruling on the Exelon appeal within seven days. ------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From Efforrer at aol.com Sat Mar 3 13:57:08 2007 From: Efforrer at aol.com (Efforrer at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 14:57:08 EST Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re:Anyone know who this is? Message-ID: Ted did email and explain he figured everyone knew who he was and that he indeed was not making snide comments from the shadows. On one hand I feel that if you cannot make comparisons to an opinion and Nazism in the light of the public forum you shouldn't make them. However on the other hand, which I feel is the bigger hand, I have to applaud him for keeping the social commentary off the list intended to discuss radiological issues. Others could probably learn from his example and keep their sniping at each others opinions and politics on private emails. Thank you Ted for clarifying your position. Just my 2 cents worth. Gene Forrer


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 20:26:51 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:26:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Well, I guess that proves what they think about Americans. Arrogant, self-centered, etc. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > be > like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? > > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our > solution has certainly not changed the risks we > face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers > of > Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the > problem > with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle > East and other areas. They many not have shared > your > beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the > U.S.'s > view of the Japanese during WWII. They were > subhuman > also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > > person simply got on a plane > > with a gun where there was no security check > > performed. It wasn't until much > > later that metal detectors were implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves > > .. and that reason was > > also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred > > to die along with the > > thousands of innocents that they murdered. You > can't > > compare apples and > > oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ > > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > > > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > > > Is > > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail > beta. > http://new.mail.yahoo.com > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 20:37:05 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:37:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59E@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <55840.15684.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Sandy, And do you care how much these "layers" cost? How much for the next layer are you willing to pay, not that you are one who really is bearing the cost? In time, this terrorism with pass, and what legacy will we leave the world? Fortress America? --- Sandy Perle wrote: > Hi Neill, > > The interviews are a good practice. However I look > at each technique as > complimentary to another technique. Recall that > Richard Reed walked through > the interview process, and if he had tried to use a > lighter instead of a > match, that AA flight would have been blown to > pieces over the Atlantic. We > need multiple layers of security, recognizing that > we will never stop a > dedicated well-trained group from finally succeeding > in implementing their > reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because > something won't stop 100% of > the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential use. > The body scanners will > detect most weapons, but not all. The interview may > catch many, but not all. > We need better technology, but nothing will be > full-proof. > > While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour > flight, I can assure you > that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and > better than I did 5 years > ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from now. > Let's not throw the > baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to > develop and implement new > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > never get there. There > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Neill Stanford > [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM > To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; > radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > None of the new technologies make me feel safer. > Every new one inspires me > to think of how easily motivated people could get > around them. We remove our > laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one > checks the piles of > electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, > battery packs, > chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz > bottles of liquid or > gel but what is to stop a group from combining them > once on board? These > systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, > clever bad guys know > how to get around them. > > What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the > detailed personal interview > at the gate that many European airports have > implemented for flights to the > USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. > Well-trained interviewers > asking questions designed to catch you off guard, > and observing reactions. > Much more effective than the parroted "were you in > possession of the bags > since..." > > > Neill Stanford, CHP > Stanford Dosimetry, LLC > ------------------------------------------ > (360) 527 2627 > (360) 715 1982 (fax) > (360) 770 7778 (cell) > www.stanforddosimetry.com > ------------------------------------------ > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf > Of Sandy Perle > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM > To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > sub-human. They still are > in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > be like kidnapping the > plane to fly to another country? > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > round of terrorist is > unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not > changed the risks we > face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers > of Sept 11 were not > subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans > looking at the problems > in the Middle East and other areas. They many not > have shared your beliefs, > but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of > the Japanese during > WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a > > plane with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It > > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were > implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves .. and that reason > > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred to die along > > with the thousands of innocents that they > murdered. You can't compare > > apples and oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global > Dosimetry > > Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > > Just Bags > > > > In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > === message truncated === +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 From sandyfl at cox.net Sat Mar 3 20:47:38 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 02:47:38 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <538226226-1172976440-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1534337609-@bxe059-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> John, Your comment regarding the 9/11 murders, questioning an American who believes that this type of a person, not a Nationality or condemnation of a group, but a statement of fact that any individual who can murder thousands of innocent individuals, is simply amazing. Your comment is akin to blaming society for this murderous act. Instead of making statements that imply acceptance of this despicable act, as well as every suicide attack, wherever it occurs, you should condem them, and accept the fact that anyone who can do this in the name of whatever God they think condones their mass murder, that they are sub-human, without a soul, period. Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:26:51 To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Well, I guess that proves what they think about Americans. Arrogant, self-centered, etc. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > be > like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? > > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our > solution has certainly not changed the risks we > face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers > of > Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the > problem > with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle > East and other areas. They many not have shared > your > beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the > U.S.'s > view of the Japanese during WWII. They were > subhuman > also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > > person simply got on a plane > > with a gun where there was no security check > > performed. It wasn't until much > > later that metal detectors were implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves > > .. and that reason was > > also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred > > to die along with the > > thousands of innocents that they murdered. You > can't > > compare apples and > > oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ > > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > > > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > > > Is > > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail > beta. > http://new.mail.yahoo.com > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sat Mar 3 20:50:41 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 02:50:41 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <55840.15684.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59E@gdses.corp.gds.com> <55840.15684.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <697284240-1172976623-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-647024906-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> John, we do pay the bill. I have no problem paying a little more on every ticket I purchase. We disagree on how much protection is provided. I accept the new systems as being a positive step. Let's just say we disagree and leave it at that. We can debate more when we're at NCRP next month. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:37:05 To:radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Sandy, And do you care how much these "layers" cost? How much for the next layer are you willing to pay, not that you are one who really is bearing the cost? In time, this terrorism with pass, and what legacy will we leave the world? Fortress America? --- Sandy Perle wrote: > Hi Neill, > > The interviews are a good practice. However I look > at each technique as > complimentary to another technique. Recall that > Richard Reed walked through > the interview process, and if he had tried to use a > lighter instead of a > match, that AA flight would have been blown to > pieces over the Atlantic. We > need multiple layers of security, recognizing that > we will never stop a > dedicated well-trained group from finally succeeding > in implementing their > reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because > something won't stop 100% of > the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential use. > The body scanners will > detect most weapons, but not all. The interview may > catch many, but not all. > We need better technology, but nothing will be > full-proof. > > While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour > flight, I can assure you > that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and > better than I did 5 years > ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from now. > Let's not throw the > baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to > develop and implement new > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > never get there. There > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Neill Stanford > [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM > To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; > radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > None of the new technologies make me feel safer. > Every new one inspires me > to think of how easily motivated people could get > around them. We remove our > laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one > checks the piles of > electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, > battery packs, > chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz > bottles of liquid or > gel but what is to stop a group from combining them > once on board? These > systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, > clever bad guys know > how to get around them. > > What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the > detailed personal interview > at the gate that many European airports have > implemented for flights to the > USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. > Well-trained interviewers > asking questions designed to catch you off guard, > and observing reactions. > Much more effective than the parroted "were you in > possession of the bags > since..." > > > Neill Stanford, CHP > Stanford Dosimetry, LLC > ------------------------------------------ > (360) 527 2627 > (360) 715 1982 (fax) > (360) 770 7778 (cell) > www.stanforddosimetry.com > ------------------------------------------ > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf > Of Sandy Perle > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM > To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > sub-human. They still are > in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > be like kidnapping the > plane to fly to another country? > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > round of terrorist is > unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not > changed the risks we > face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers > of Sept 11 were not > subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans > looking at the problems > in the Middle East and other areas. They many not > have shared your beliefs, > but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of > the Japanese during > WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a > > plane with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It > > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were > implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves .. and that reason > > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred to die along > > with the thousands of innocents that they > murdered. You can't compare > > apples and oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global > Dosimetry > > Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > > Just Bags > > > > In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > === message truncated === +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sat Mar 3 21:02:52 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 03:02:52 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <675047163-1172977354-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1669028771-@bxe014-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> John, My last comment on this thread is as follows. I grieve for every individual who is a victim of any group that kills indiscriminately. Any individual, no matter their nationality, religion, or other belief system, who kills for the pure pleasure of killing, is a sub-human, without a soul, and is worse than an animal. An animal does what comes naturally. Killing innocents is not a natural or acceptable event. Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:26:51 To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Well, I guess that proves what they think about Americans. Arrogant, self-centered, etc. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > be > like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? > > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our > solution has certainly not changed the risks we > face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers > of > Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the > problem > with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle > East and other areas. They many not have shared > your > beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the > U.S.'s > view of the Japanese during WWII. They were > subhuman > also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > > person simply got on a plane > > with a gun where there was no security check > > performed. It wasn't until much > > later that metal detectors were implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves > > .. and that reason was > > also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred > > to die along with the > > thousands of innocents that they murdered. You > can't > > compare apples and > > oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ > > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > > > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > > > Is > > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail > beta. > http://new.mail.yahoo.com > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 21:51:30 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 19:51:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <538226226-1172976440-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1534337609-@bxe059-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <339064.22578.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Sandy, The terrorists of Sept 11 were murderers, but they were not sub-human. They were educated, and were human like us. I do not know if they had souls, but apparently you do. I certainly do not condone their actions, but as an American, I can certainly question what you say, and what our country/government does. Flammatory retoric may impress some people, but distracts from the real issue of why they did what they did. Maybe if we understood their motivation, we could prevent future acts of terrorism. You certainly not the sole decider of what is posted on this list server. While you cannot accept the fact that others may disagree with you, some of us do. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > Your comment regarding the 9/11 murders, questioning > an American who believes that this type of a person, > not a Nationality or condemnation of a group, but a > statement of fact that any individual who can murder > thousands of innocent individuals, is simply > amazing. Your comment is akin to blaming society for > this murderous act. Instead of making statements > that imply acceptance of this despicable act, as > well as every suicide attack, wherever it occurs, > you should condem them, and accept the fact that > anyone who can do this in the name of whatever God > they think condones their mass murder, that they are > sub-human, without a soul, period. > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:26:51 > To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Well, I guess that proves what they think about > Americans. Arrogant, self-centered, etc. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. > > > > Sandy > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 21:55:49 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 19:55:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <697284240-1172976623-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-647024906-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <140323.43273.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Sandy, And what additional protection does this system provide? It is a one airport, and not used by every passenger or flight crew member. It is a big PR stunt to try and impress the public that the government is doing something useful. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, we do pay the bill. I have no problem paying a > little more on every ticket I purchase. We disagree > on how much protection is provided. I accept the new > systems as being a positive step. Let's just say we > disagree and leave it at that. > > We can debate more when we're at NCRP next month. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:37:05 > To:radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Sandy, > And do you care how much these "layers" cost? How > much for the next layer are you willing to pay, not > that you are one who really is bearing the cost? > > In time, this terrorism with pass, and what legacy > will we leave the world? Fortress America? > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > Hi Neill, > > > > The interviews are a good practice. However I look > > at each technique as > > complimentary to another technique. Recall that > > Richard Reed walked through > > the interview process, and if he had tried to use > a > > lighter instead of a > > match, that AA flight would have been blown to > > pieces over the Atlantic. We > > need multiple layers of security, recognizing that > > we will never stop a > > dedicated well-trained group from finally > succeeding > > in implementing their > > reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because > > something won't stop 100% of > > the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential > use. > > The body scanners will > > detect most weapons, but not all. The interview > may > > catch many, but not all. > > We need better technology, but nothing will be > > full-proof. > > > > While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour > > flight, I can assure you > > that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and > > better than I did 5 years > > ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from > now. > > Let's not throw the > > baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to > > develop and implement new > > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > > never get there. There > > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing > it. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ > > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Neill Stanford > > [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM > > To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; > > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > None of the new technologies make me feel safer. > > Every new one inspires me > > to think of how easily motivated people could get > > around them. We remove our > > laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one > > checks the piles of > > electronic stuff that many of us travel with: > PDA's, > > battery packs, > > chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 > oz > > bottles of liquid or > > gel but what is to stop a group from combining > them > > once on board? These > > systems are all well-publicized and > well-understood, > > clever bad guys know > > how to get around them. > > > > What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the > > detailed personal interview > > at the gate that many European airports have > > implemented for flights to the > > USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. > > Well-trained interviewers > > asking questions designed to catch you off guard, > > and observing reactions. > > Much more effective than the parroted "were you in > > possession of the bags > > since..." > > > > > > Neill Stanford, CHP > > Stanford Dosimetry, LLC > > ------------------------------------------ > > (360) 527 2627 > > (360) 715 1982 (fax) > > (360) 770 7778 (cell) > > www.stanforddosimetry.com > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf > > Of Sandy Perle > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM > > To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > John, > > > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > > sub-human. They still are > > in my opinion.. > > > > Sandy > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus > > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > > To:Sandy Perle , > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > > be like kidnapping the > > plane to fly to another country? > > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > > round of terrorist is > > unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly > not > > changed the risks we > > face. > > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > > > I would add that your comment that the 19 > hijackers > > of Sept 11 were not > > subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with > Americans > > looking at the problems > > in the Middle East and other areas. They many not > > have shared your beliefs, > > but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view > of > > the Japanese during > > WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > === message truncated === +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front From sandyfl at cox.net Sat Mar 3 22:02:30 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 20:02:30 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <140323.43273.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5B6@gdses.corp.gds.com> John, This system at Phoenix is a pilot program. If it is successful, it will be put to use in other airports. You're correct in stating that it is not used on every individual. Currently only those individuals selected for an additional search are given the option on using the new system, or, having a hands-on pat down. The majority of individuals selected have accepted the scan instead of the pat down. How successful this system will be, I don't know. I don't consider this to be simply a PR stunt. Time will tell. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 7:56 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Sandy, And what additional protection does this system provide? It is a one airport, and not used by every passenger or flight crew member. It is a big PR stunt to try and impress the public that the government is doing something useful. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, we do pay the bill. I have no problem paying a > little more on every ticket I purchase. We disagree > on how much protection is provided. I accept the new > systems as being a positive step. Let's just say we > disagree and leave it at that. > > We can debate more when we're at NCRP next month. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:37:05 > To:radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Sandy, > And do you care how much these "layers" cost? How > much for the next layer are you willing to pay, not > that you are one who really is bearing the cost? > > In time, this terrorism with pass, and what legacy > will we leave the world? Fortress America? > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > Hi Neill, > > > > The interviews are a good practice. However I look > > at each technique as > > complimentary to another technique. Recall that > > Richard Reed walked through > > the interview process, and if he had tried to use > a > > lighter instead of a > > match, that AA flight would have been blown to > > pieces over the Atlantic. We > > need multiple layers of security, recognizing that > > we will never stop a > > dedicated well-trained group from finally > succeeding > > in implementing their > > reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because > > something won't stop 100% of > > the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential > use. > > The body scanners will > > detect most weapons, but not all. The interview > may > > catch many, but not all. > > We need better technology, but nothing will be > > full-proof. > > > > While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour > > flight, I can assure you > > that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and > > better than I did 5 years > > ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from > now. > > Let's not throw the > > baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to > > develop and implement new > > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > > never get there. There > > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing > it. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ > > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Neill Stanford > > [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM > > To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; > > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > None of the new technologies make me feel safer. > > Every new one inspires me > > to think of how easily motivated people could get > > around them. We remove our > > laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one > > checks the piles of > > electronic stuff that many of us travel with: > PDA's, > > battery packs, > > chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 > oz > > bottles of liquid or > > gel but what is to stop a group from combining > them > > once on board? These > > systems are all well-publicized and > well-understood, > > clever bad guys know > > how to get around them. > > > > What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the > > detailed personal interview > > at the gate that many European airports have > > implemented for flights to the > > USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. > > Well-trained interviewers > > asking questions designed to catch you off guard, > > and observing reactions. > > Much more effective than the parroted "were you in > > possession of the bags > > since..." > > > > > > Neill Stanford, CHP > > Stanford Dosimetry, LLC > > ------------------------------------------ > > (360) 527 2627 > > (360) 715 1982 (fax) > > (360) 770 7778 (cell) > > www.stanforddosimetry.com > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf > > Of Sandy Perle > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM > > To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > John, > > > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > > sub-human. They still are > > in my opinion.. > > > > Sandy > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus > > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > > To:Sandy Perle , > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > > be like kidnapping the > > plane to fly to another country? > > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > > round of terrorist is > > unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly > not > > changed the risks we > > face. > > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > > > I would add that your comment that the 19 > hijackers > > of Sept 11 were not > > subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with > Americans > > looking at the problems > > in the Middle East and other areas. They many not > > have shared your beliefs, > > but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view > of > > the Japanese during > > WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > === message truncated === +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front From LNMolino at aol.com Sat Mar 3 22:09:05 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 23:09:05 EST Subject: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan) Message-ID: In a message dated 3/3/2007 8:40:32 P.M. Central Standard Time, crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: In time, this terrorism with pass, Please tell me you're not serious? "this terrorism" will likely be with us for millenniums as it has in other parts of the world. We are in a world where one can get from any point on the planet to another point in mere hours if not days. The spread of the threat is very real and will not just be gone and it IS a RAD issue as some would seek to take the power of the atom to do evil deeds with and they would not hesitates in dying to do so hence WE should be concerned about it. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 00:13:33 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 23:13:33 -0700 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <538226226-1172976440-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1534337609- @bxe059-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070303231043.009f14e0@mail.swcp.com> March 3 The September 11 terrorists were not sub-human. They were humans --- morally depraved humans. (Yes, I used the "m" word.) Steven Dapra At 02:47 AM 3/4/07 +0000, Sandy Perle wrote: >John, > >Your comment regarding the 9/11 murders, questioning an American who >believes that this type of a person, not a Nationality or condemnation of >a group, but a statement of fact that any individual who can murder >thousands of innocent individuals, is simply amazing. Your comment is akin >to blaming society for this murderous act. Instead of making statements >that imply acceptance of this despicable act, as well as every suicide >attack, wherever it occurs, you should condem them, and accept the fact >that anyone who can do this in the name of whatever God they think >condones their mass murder, that they are sub-human, without a soul, period. > > >Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless [edit] From syd.levine at mindspring.com Sun Mar 4 01:14:40 2007 From: syd.levine at mindspring.com (Syd H. Levine) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 02:14:40 -0500 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags References: <339064.22578.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005701c75e2c$c8196d30$0200a8c0@Shop> John: You wanted to know what I meant in my earlier email (which email did not reach the list since I was on a different account), well you just stated it succinctly. "Maybe if we understood their motivation, we could prevent future acts of terrorism." Can you understand the killing of innocents no matter how oppressed the offenders argue they may be? I hope you cannot. Subhuman is a figure of speech of course, but if anything is subhuman behavior, it is terrorism. Would you have argued we needed to understand motivation at Nuremburg? Syd H. Levine AnaLog Services, Inc. Phone: 270-276-5671 Telefax: 270-276-5588 E-mail: analog at logwell.com URL: www.logwell.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jacobus" To: ; Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 10:51 PM Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > Sandy, > The terrorists of Sept 11 were murderers, but they > were not sub-human. They were educated, and were > human like us. I do not know if they had souls, but > apparently you do. > > I certainly do not condone their actions, but as an > American, I can certainly question what you say, and > what our country/government does. Flammatory retoric > may impress some people, but distracts from the real > issue of why they did what they did. Maybe if we > understood their motivation, we could prevent future > acts of terrorism. > > You certainly not the sole decider of what is posted > on this list server. While you cannot accept the fact > that others may disagree with you, some of us do. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > >> John, >> >> Your comment regarding the 9/11 murders, questioning >> an American who believes that this type of a person, >> not a Nationality or condemnation of a group, but a >> statement of fact that any individual who can murder >> thousands of innocent individuals, is simply >> amazing. Your comment is akin to blaming society for >> this murderous act. Instead of making statements >> that imply acceptance of this despicable act, as >> well as every suicide attack, wherever it occurs, >> you should condem them, and accept the fact that >> anyone who can do this in the name of whatever God >> they think condones their mass murder, that they are >> sub-human, without a soul, period. >> >> >> Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John Jacobus >> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:26:51 >> To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl >> Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays >> Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags >> >> Well, I guess that proves what they think about >> Americans. Arrogant, self-centered, etc. >> >> --- Sandy Perle wrote: >> >> > John, >> > >> > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were >> > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. >> > >> > Sandy >> > >> > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless >> > >> > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or > omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we > cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we > cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there > cannot be an American solution to every world problem." > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 09:54:44 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 07:54:44 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Polish government to back investors in Lithuania nuclear plant Message-ID: <45EA7B44.2074.2CB393AA@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: Polish government to back investors in Lithuania nuclear plant German coalition split on nuclear energy withdrawal India planning to supply low-cost nuclear reactors to other countries Locals speak up for nuclear landfill The Issue: Florida Energy Fears over Torness safety Austria wants to assess possible suit over Temelin Czech nuke Entergy seeking leeway on new reactor --------------------------------------------------------------- Polish government to back investors in Lithuania nuclear plant 03 Mar 2007 (Bloomberg) bbj.hu - The Polish government agreed to support domestic companies willing to join a nuclear-power project in Lithuania to help diversify the region's energy sources and reduce dependence on Russia. Polish Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski and Lithuanian Prime Minister Gediminas Kirkilas signed an agreement in Warsaw last night which officially "expresses the political will" to build a nuclear power plant at Ignalina, Lithuania, the Polish government's press office said in a statement. The accord "gives the full support of the governments for companies planning to joint the project," the press office said. "This should also encourage our partners from Latvia and Estonia to give their go-ahead." Under the agreement drafted in December, Poland will take a 22% stake in the project, matched by Latvia and Estonia, while Lithuania will hold 34%. The EUR4 billion ($5.3 billion) power plant at Ignalina will have a capacity of as much as 1,600 megawatts. The new plant would be the biggest nuclear- power project in eastern Europe since the Czech Republic built a plant at Temelin, which began operating four years ago. Polskie Sieci Elektroenergetyczne SA, Poland's national power grid, plans to join the project, according to the company's December 8 statement. The Polish company will work on the project with Lithuania's AB Lietuvos Energija, Latvia's Latvenergo and Estonia's Eesti Energia. Poland is also still considering building its own nuclear plant, Kaczynski has said. -------------- German coalition split on nuclear energy withdrawal BERLIN (Reuters) Mar 4 - A split within Germany?s ruling coalition over the nation?s withdrawal from nuclear energy flared again on Sunday ahead of a European Union summit this week due to address climate change. Conservative Chancellor Angela Merkel, who will host the meeting in Brussels, favours extending the life of Germany?s nuclear plants, which account for a third of the country?s electricity supply. But she agreed in the coalition pact with the Social Democrats (SPD) in 2005 not to renege on a nuclear phase-out sealed under her predecessor, SPD Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. Conservative Economy Minister Michael Glos on Sunday sharply criticised a decision by SPD Environment Minister Sigmar Gabriel to prevent utility RWE RWEG.DE from extending the life of one of its nuclear plants. `With his attitude Environment Minister Gabriel is showing that leftist anti-nuclear ideology is more important to him than climate protection,? Glos was quoted as saying by the Bild am Sonntag newspaper. Glos has said nuclear power could help Germany reduce its dependence on energy imports from politically unstable regions and cut emissions of carbon dioxide blamed for climate change. A spokesman for Gabriel told Sunday?s Der Tagesspiegel newspaper: `We would find it helpful in the climate change discussion if all members of the cabinet stuck to an appropriate level of debate.? RWE wants to keep its Biblis A nuclear plant, Germany?s oldest, running until 2011, three years longer than agreed under the terms of the withdrawal. An RWE spokesman said on Friday the company had heard nothing about the government?s decision and an Environment Ministry spokesman said it would be communicated to the firm in the next two weeks. Former Chancellor Schroeder said on Sunday nuclear power was a dangerous and expensive energy source that caused long-term environmental damage and it should be quickly phased out. `It will not make any decisive contribution to solving our energy problems,? Schroeder wrote in a guest article for Swiss newspaper SonntagsBlick. Long-term strategy EU leaders are due to meet in Brussels on March 8-9 to agree a long- term energy strategy for the bloc. As holder of the EU?s rotating six- month presidency, Merkel will lead the talks. In a speech to the lower house of parliament last week, Merkel voiced support for European Commission proposals to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the 27-nation bloc by 20 percent by 2020 and by 30 percent if other big industrial nations join in. Merkel is hoping an environmental agreement within the EU can set the stage for a broader international consensus on combating climate change at a Group of Eight (G8) summit she will host in the Baltic resort town of Heiligendamm in June. However, France opposes a proposal to set a binding target for renewable energy sources, setting up a potential clash with Germany at the Brussels meeting. ------------- India planning to supply low-cost nuclear reactors to other countries by joining the NSG Mar 4 - India has not only stepped up its diplomacy with the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) countries to allow it to access civil nuclear technology and fuel but may also become a supplier of low-cost nuclear reactors to other countries by joining the NSG. India's nuclear establishment is riding high after the Kaiga 3 nuclear power reactor in Karnataka, developed by Indian engineers, achieved criticality early this week. The 220 MW pressurized heavy water reactor (PHWR) will start delivering power at the end of this month. Glowing in the success of this venture, Anil Kakodkar, chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission, has said that completing the nuclear power plant, along with low costs, in five years has set an international benchmark. Given the low costs - Rs 984 ($22.33) per installed KW - Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL) is now eyeing the export market for nuclear reactors. India is confident of exporting the design to countries like Cambodia, Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam for just Rs 1,200 ($27.24) per KW, which is substantially less than the international average of $1,500 per KW, a senior NPCIL official told IANS over the phone from Mumbai. ------------- Locals speak up for nuclear landfill Site provides funds for workers, schools SNELLING (AP) - In this rural county beset by high unemployment, the soon-to-arrive day when the local nuclear-waste landfill closes its doors to nearly all debris is no cause for celebration. Chem-Nuclear, a disposal site for low-level radioactive waste from hospitals and power plants around the nation, offers some of the county's few high-paying jobs, provides roughly 10 percent of its overall budget and pumps $1 million a year into local schools. It has also handed out college scholarships and bought equipment for police and paramedics. The landfill has long been under attack from environmentalists, and a 2000 state law says that starting next year it can accept waste only from South Carolina and two other states. But now, as that date draws near, lawmakers are considering extending the deadline to 2023. Locals say it is vital to change the law and that outsiders don't understand how important the landfill is. "It's been in Barnwell so long, it's part of who we are," said Berley Lindler, a jewelry shop owner in the nearby town of Barnwell. "It's good for the economy. They're our friends." About 23,300 people live in Barnwell County, about 55 miles from Columbia in the southwestern part of South Carolina, near the Georgia state line. The county has no rail lines or interstate access. Unemployment stands at 10 percent. In the past few years, hundreds of jobs in the county have vanished with the closing of a gas-grill maker and a window manufacturer. The biggest employer, the Dixie-Narco vending machine company, has cut about 1,400 jobs over the past several years and was bought out last year, said Keith Sloan, chairman of the County Council. "We've really taken some hits," he said. Nuclear power plant debris and radioactive hospital clothing have been buried here since 1971 atop aquifers that run to the Savannah River. In its heyday from 1980 to the early 1990s, Chem-Nuclear employed hundreds of people. In 1980, it collected 2.4 million cubic feet of the solid, radioactive waste, which is stored in steel containers that are put in concrete vaults and then buried in long trenches. Bought last year by Utah-based EnergySolutions, it is now one of three landfills in the nation for low-level radioactive waste. Utah and Washington have the others. The landfill was last cited by state environmental regulators in 1983 for improperly unloading a shipment. In 1999, tritium, a radioactive isotope of hydrogen, was found on the grounds of a church next to the landfill. The levels were below those accepted by regulators, but the company dug up and replaced the contaminated soil. A year later, then-Gov. Jim Hodges led a campaign to wean South Carolina off radioactive waste. From about 120 miles away, residents of wealthier Beaufort and Hilton Head, which get drinking water from the Savannah River, added to the outcry. State lawmakers passed a measure to slowly choke off the amount of waste that could be sent to the landfill. This year, the cap is 40,000 cubic feet of waste, or enough to cover a baseball infield to a depth of 5 feet. Plant manager Jim Lathan said restricting the waste to South Carolina, Connecticut and New Jersey means the landfill will run a deficit and will probably have to lay off some of the 51 workers who are left. Local impact What | A House subcommittee will begin hearings on a proposal by Rep. Billy Witherspoon, R-Conway, to allow the low-level nuclear waste facility at Barnwell to take refuse from all states for another 15 years. It was to close to all but South Carolina, New Jersey and Connecticut next year. When | Hearing will be at 2:30 p.m. Tuesday in Room 410, Blatt Building. ------------ The Issue: Florida Energy Issue: Florida's power needs are growing faster than its population. One of the most ominous indicators is a proposal by Florida Power & Light to build a $5.7 billion Glades Power Park, a coal-fired power plant in rural Glades County near Lake Okeechobee by 2012. Also in the works are other coal plants and even a nuclear-power plant. Led by Gov. Charlie Crist, lawmakers are pushing to develop alternative power sources to make Florida more energy independent. A special commission will propose new policies by the end of the year. Proposal: The Legislature this year plans to double the size of a $15 million alternative-energy grant program that was a prominent feature of the 2006 Energy Act, one that drew more than $200 million in requests for money to develop everything from exotic solar chips to electric generators spun by the Gulf Stream. Much of the $67 million in alternative-energy spending Crist has proposed would go for developing "biomass" fuels, turning agricultural products into fuel for cars and trucks. The House is also expected to propose a sweeping mandate to use bio-diesel fuel in government fleet vehicles. Environmentalists want more money invested in energy-saving programs. Outlook: The Legislature will put more money this year into alternative-energy programs, but with a budget squeeze, is not likely to fund all of the proposals. --------------- Fears over Torness safety MORE THAN 30 safety incidents were investigated at Torness nuclear power station in 2005, sparking fears about the reliability of the East Lothian plant. The list included four emergency shutdowns; plus incidents involving damaged or faulty safety equipment, and a "transformer fire". According to experts, some of the events had the potential to cause a radiation leak. A list of 33 incidents was released to Alan Beith, the Liberal Democrat MP for Berwick-upon-Tweed, last week. It coincides with a prolonged shutdown of Scotland's other nuclear power station at Hunterston in North Ayrshire due to boiler defects. advertisement"It's worrying," Beith said of the list. "You want the incidents to be reported and not covered up, but many people will be surprised to discovered that there were so many." According to independent nuclear engineer John Large, some of the incidents could have been serious. If undetected, they might have caused injury to workers or, in the worst circumstances, triggered a radiation release, he claimed. The list was provided by the UK trade and industry minister, Margaret Hodge, in response to a parliamentary question from Beith. But a spokeswoman for British Energy, the company that runs Torness, insisted that the incidents were all minor. She added: "As a nuclear operator aiming for high standards of safety, we have an open and transparent reporting culture." ---------------- Austria wants to assess possible suit over Temelin Czech nuke Linz- The Austrian government wants experts to assess the possibility to bring a lawsuit against the neighbouring Czech Republic over the alleged violation of the Melk agreements on the safety of the Temelin Czech nuclear power plant that Czech representatives have repeatedly dismissed, APA Austrian news agency reported today. Austrian Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer said that it is still open whether Austria would sue the Czech Republic or not. In the Melk agreement from 2000 the Czech Republic pledged to upgrade Temelin's safety in exchange for Austria's not blocking its then EU accession negotiations and preventing further blockades of borders by anti-atom opponents. The Austrian government today also supported the establishment of the Austrian-Czech parliamentary commission on Temelin, on which Gusenbauer agreed with Czech PM Mirek Topolanek during his visit to Prague last Tuesday, at a closed meeting in Linz today. Gusenbauer said that in his opinion the commission could make the debate on Temelin more constructive. APA writes that Gusenbauer criticised the blockades of Austrian-Czech border organised by the Austrian anti-atom association Atomstopp. Such blockades are a controversial step with regard to the fact that the border checks between both countries will disappear after the Czech Republic joins the Schengen area at the end the year, he added. Atomstopp announced in a press release today that if only an intra- parliamentary commission on Temelin were set up, the border blockades would continue. The activists will release more details on them next week. In the past few weeks, Austrian Temelin opponents gradually blocked one, two and three Czech-Austrian border crossings for one hour every Wednesday. They plan to block a total of four border crossings next week. Situated 60 kilometres from the borders of Austria and Bavaria, Temelin is sharply criticised by activists in Austria, Bavaria as well as the Czech Republic who say it is not safe because it combines Soviet design and western fuel and safety technology. These doubts were repeatedly dismissed by the Czech Republic. ------------- Entergy seeking leeway on new reactor Early ratepayer fees, limited reviews pushed At the urging of two Entergy subsidiaries, Louisiana's Public Service Commission may flip the regulatory process upside down to attract a $4 billion-plus nuclear reactor to the state. Under a rule that will be debated later this month by the PSC, Entergy Louisiana and Entergy Gulf States would start collecting millions of dollars from customers years before the reactor ever powers its first lightbulb. Entergy is also pushing the PSC to limit how much power the commission would have to review the plant's costs after it is built, thus limiting the ability of regulators to spot inappropriate costs that the utility might be trying to pass off on its customers. The changes, if approved, would be a drastic departure from regulatory practices in the 1980s that cost utilities building reactors billions of dollars in disallowed expenses. No company will build a reactor in Louisiana if the rules aren't changed, said Mike Twomey, vice president of regulatory affairs for Entergy Louisiana, which wants the reactor to go alongside the River Bend reactor at St. Francisville. The company, which also is considering a Mississippi site beside the Grand Gulf reactor at Port Gibson, will decide whether and where to build based, in large part, on which state comes up with the most favorable changes in the regulatory rules, Twomey said. "We're just asking that the Louisiana Public Service Commission . . . put Louisiana in the best position to attract investment in a nuclear power plant," Twomey said. "It's a little bit of a beauty pageant" between Mississippi and Louisiana. A group of large industrial energy users, including Occidental Chemical, opposes some of the regulatory changes Entergy wants. "Stripped of its linguistic trappings, Entergy's position is that the ratepayers' interest is served by having a new nuclear generating facility, regardless of whether the ultimate cost of such facility was reasonable," Occidental writes in its filings with the PSC. Filling a growing need Twomey said Entergy will have no problem meeting the first criterion of any regulatory process: establishing a need for the reactor. Electricity demand is growing in Louisiana, and Entergy must find a source to fill it. And nuclear power is usually the cheapest source of electricity, especially as plants age and building costs are paid off. Commissioners, in fact, wanted to explore the prospect of nuclear power to help reduce customer cost. "Louisiana has to do what it can do to explore new fuels," said Commissioner Lambert C. Boissiere III. "Nuclear looks like a very viable option." Assuming the PSC greenlights the project, Entergy would have to provide cost estimates for the plant during each of three phases: siting and licensing, design and development, and construction. Under the proposed rule, the PSC would have to agree to those costs estimates at the beginning of each phase and would periodically review them. After each phase, the PSC also would have the authority to conduct a prudency review, auditing Entergy's expenditures to determine whether they are fair and should be borne by customers. The reviews can be deeply expensive for a utility found to be imposing unfair charges on ratepayers. The first River Bend unit, built by Gulf States and later purchased by Entergy, was supposed to cost $307 million. By the time the plant started operating in 1985, the cost was $4.4 billion. The Public Service Commission, in a review, decided that Gulf States should have stopped building River Bend after the Three Mile Island accident and refused to allow Gulf States to charge its customers for $1.4 billion of the plant's cost. That scenario, Entergy argues, places too much risk on a utility and discourages development of a new nuclear plant. Limited reviews sought Entergy wants a prudency review to kick in only if there are cost overruns. "If we say we're going to build it for $4 billion, and we build it for $4 billion, we would recommend that the PSC not revisit" the plant costs, Twomey said. Opening up the review would create "too much opportunity for mischief by critics of the plant," he said. If the PSC does not limit a prudency review to cost overruns, Twomey said, the company would be hesitant to build a reactor in the state. "These rules as they currently stand do not send the proper signal," Twomey said. But Occidental and the Louisiana Energy Users Group, a consortium of industrial power users, insist that the PSC retain the right to do a full post-mortem on Entergy's costs, especially because no one has a firm grasp on how much a nuclear plant would cost. "We'll be working off estimates of things that haven't been built in 20 years. It's kind of the equivalent of a blank check, it just seems unreasonable," said Joe Marone, Occidental's director of power purchasing and chairman of the energy users group. At this point, commissioners don't appear inclined to give ground on their ability to conduct a prudency review. "The Constitution gives us that right, and we're not giving that away," said Commissioner Jay Blossman. The PSC staff is working with Entergy to tweak the language to make the company more comfortable with any review that would be done, he said. Customers pay upfront The rule would change the typical regulatory process in another big way: A company building a nuclear plant could collect money from customers before the plant is built. Usually, a company pays for the expenses upfront. Only after a prudency review would the PSC allow the company to pass on approved costs to customers. Under the rule being considered by the PSC, Entergy would be able to collect interest on the money it is spending on the project while the reactor is being built. Such an interest payment would be equivalent to the profit a company gets to tack onto all of its allowed expenses -- usually about 10 percent. It would amount to pennies a month for the typical customer during the licensing and design phases, but it could be several dollars a month per customer during the more expensive construction phase. Advertisement Prepayment of interest would benefit customers, Entergy says, because the revenue stream would be a signal to financial markets that the company is financially stable. That raises the utility's bond rating and keeps the cost of borrowing money in check. The bottom line: lower overall costs for customers, Twomey said. The prepayment also phases in the increase that will have to be paid once the plant is operating, said Lawrence "Tubby" St. Blanc, executive secretary of the PSC. "The rate shock is mitigated," he said. Entergy's need questioned Public Service Commissioner Foster Campbell said he doesn't think Entergy needs to start recovering costs before the plant is built. "They are a big company, they have great credit, they can borrow the money," he said. "Why don't they pay for it, get it built, and then we'll pay them back?" Fields also questioned whether Entergy needs to collect interest on its capital investment to maintain its credit status. "This is a very old problem," said Ken Rose, a senior fellow at the Institute of Public Utilities at Michigan State University. "There have always been large investments to build large power plants. It's an old issue how to handle those costs." Rose said such arrangements can be beneficial to customers, but the regulating body needs to keep a close watch on the plant's progress. The PSC set up a pre-collection mechanism for Cleco as it builds a $1 billion solid-fuel plant in Prairieville. The company is charging its customers about $5 a month for interest on the money it is using, said Robin Cooper, a spokeswoman for Cleco. In Cleco's case, such a structure was necessary to help the company balance its financial risk and keep down the cost of borrowing money. What's best for state? Twomey said his efforts are not just on Entergy's behalf. He sees himself as a "cheerleader" for Louisiana by pushing rules that will give Entergy the incentive to build the state's first new nuclear plant in 20 years. Other states, including Florida, Georgia and Indiana, have adopted similar rules to attract nuclear plants. While Entergy's application for a license to build a new reactor is further along for the Port Gibson site, Mississippi has not considered changing its regulatory process for cost recovery and won't do so this year. A new nuclear plant in Louisiana would mean an investment of $3 billion to $4 billion, 1,200 to 1,500 construction jobs and about 500 permanent jobs, Twomey said. But Marone said it wouldn't be a bad thing if Entergy chose Mississippi over Louisiana's St. Francisville site. "It may be better overall for Louisiana ratepayers. Mississippi ratepayers get all the risk, and Louisiana still gets most of any potential savings via the system agreement. It could be the best of both worlds for Louisiana," Marone said. Setig said setting out the rules will let the company and its customers know upfront what they are facing if Entergy decides to build in Louisiana. "If they chose to build their plant somewhere else maybe because the rules are too tough in Louisiana," he said, "that's fine." Blossman said he simply wants the commission to be able to choose whether a new nuclear plant would be a good investment for Louisiana. "Voting on the rule doesn't mean we're going to have a nuclear plant," Blossman said. "Voting on the rule just keeps us in the game." ---------------- There's change in the air at Drax Europe's biggest producer of coal-fired power is out to prove that it can clean up its act By Tim Webb Published: 04 March 2007 The politics of energy are shifting. Nuclear power companies used to be prime targets of the environmental lobby. But that was before the world began worrying about carbon emissions. Now, green protesters have turned their ire on the coal industry. Drax, the FTSE 100 company that owns the coal-fired power station of the same name in North Yorkshire, is very much at the top of their blacklist. It is the UK's largest power station of any kind, producing about 7 per cent of our electricity. It is also Europe's largest coal plant and the single biggest emitter of carbon dioxide in this country. Hundreds of eco-protesters converged on the power station in August to try to shut it down, the first large-scale action against the coal industry in Britain. At the time, a spokesman for the energy companies called them "daft, dangerous and misguided". But beyond that, the industry - traditionally publicity averse - made little response and was happy to let police deal with the matter. But now, in her first big interview since the protest, Dorothy Thompson, the only British woman serving as chief executive of a FTSE 100 company, explains how Drax is trying to clean up its image. She admits the coal industry has, in the past, been poor at communicating, particularly on green issues. "We think that probably we need to be a little more open about who we are and what we do." Thompson, 46, hits out at the protesters and environmentalists who want the UK's coal plants - which provide about 40 per cent of the country's electricity - closed down. "There are people who disapprove of me or other people in Drax because we work in coal generation. I struggle with that very strongly. I have problems with them attacking someone because they are providing what has been proved to be an essential service." And she reveals why last summer's protest - much to its organisers' chagrin - may have ended up doing the company a favour. Drax reports annual results this week. Analysts predict earnings of around ?580m, against ?239m in the previous year, thanks largely to the surge in power prices. Aside from strong numbers, Thompson will also announce Drax's ambitious target of sourcing 10 per cent of its fuel from biomass by 2009. Biomass can come from specially grown energy crops such as miscanthus (a tall grass), oil palms, willow and poplar trees or from bio-wastes such as sewage sludge or the mush left when olives are crushed to make olive oil. Drax is proposing to "co-fire" these biomass fuels with coal. To meet its 10 per cent target, it will require an estimated 1.5 million tons of biomass each year, says Thompson. The two types of biomass reduce carbon emissions in different ways. Energy crops remove as much carbon from the atmosphere while they're growing as they release when they're burnt, so their net contribution to atmospheric carbon is zero. Bio-wastes release their carbon into the air anyway when they biodegrade, so burning them instead produces extra energy at no extra carbon cost. In both cases, the amount of coal that has to be burned to get the same amount of energy is reduced. Drax estimates that if biomass were fully used by all Britain's modern coal plants, 21.5 million tons of carbon dioxide would be saved a year, or half the savings demanded from the power sector under the first phase of the EU emissions trading scheme. Biomass is already burnt in relatively small quantities by 16 coal- powered plants in the UK, including Drax. But co-firing has its drawbacks. Currently, the maximum amount of biomass that can be used in the fuel mix is 20 per cent. Beyond that, the plants become too clogged with ash. Depending on coal prices and the kind of biomass used, co-firing is two to three times more expensive than conventional coal-powered energy and needs government subsidy to make it viable. As with biofuels - energy crops mixed with petrol or diesel - there are concerns about the energy needed to grow, transport and manufacture the biomass. A recent report commissioned by the Government found that most biomass burnt in Britain is imported bio- waste rather than energy crops. Much of this waste comes from palm- oil plantations in Indonesia and Malaysia, involving the clearance of vast tracts of rainforest. Thompson, who has held the top job at Drax since the autumn of 2005, joining from fellow power generator InterGen, acknowledges these concerns but rules out making a commitment to buy biomass only from the UK, where its sustainability can be verified. Where possible, Drax will source its biomass at home, she says. But according to the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution, if wood chips, say, provided all the biomass needed for Britain's coal plants, seven million out of a total of 17 million hectares of agricultural land would be required to grow enough poplars and willows. Drax is still working out which type of biomass to use and where to get it from, Thompson admits. "I don't want to give everyone our secrets. We are more nervous about that than you think." Drax is spending ?100m installing more efficient blades on its turbines and is looking at whether the carbon released during generation can be captured and stored in nearby coal mines. But environmental campaigners are less than impressed with such efforts. They point out that, even if Drax uses 20 per cent biomass, it will still emit more carbon than modern gas plants. "Co-firing will just prolong the life of the coal industry," a Greenpeace spokesman says. Yet Thompson seems genuinely concerned about climate change. She was moved by Al Gore's eco-horror documentary, An Inconvenient Truth. "Who would have thought a movie about climate change would get two Oscars? You should see it." She concedes that coal is dirtier than any other form of power generation. But with old nuclear reactors coming to the end of their lives, it is hardly practical to close down Drax as the campaigners wish. Lakis Athanasiou, an analyst from Collins Stewart, says: "It's a bit daft of protesters to try to shut down the most efficient coal plant in the UK because it would result in much less efficient coal plants being used more to make up the shortfall." In fact, Thompson reckons, last summer's protest helped Drax to lobby for government support for co-firing and carbon capture and storage. "People's concerns with climate change echo our concern. Yes, they did us a favour in a back-handed way." She is astute enough to realise the protest is unlikely to be a one- off: "Whether they'll choose Drax as a venue [again] I don't know." Asked if she thinks that communicating with the public will make the company less of a target in the future, she concludes: "One can but hope." ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 11:23:11 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 10:23:11 -0700 Subject: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304095246.009fb9b0@mail.swcp.com> March 4 May I recommend "Dying to Win The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism," by Robert A. Pape (Random House, 2005). According to the dust jacket, "Every suicide terrorist campaign has had a clear goal that is secular and political: to compel a modern democracy to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland." Pape makes a strong case for this being true, (and not only among Islamic terrorists). On p. 243 he notes the increasing Muslim dislike of the United States, and on p. 244 says, "The underlying reason is not discontent with Western political or economic values, which are supported by majorities or near majorities in these [three] countries. Rather, the taproot is American military policy. Overwhelming majorities across a range of Muslim countries believe that the United States conquered Iraq to control its oil or to help Israel rather than to end terrorism or promote democracy, and fear that their country might be next." Pape provides survey data to support these assertions. See also p. 316, fn. 4 for a book Pape recommends that gives an "extensive evaluation of the growing resentment of American policies in numerous areas around the world." (I have only read Pape, not the book he recommends.) The solution is not more people snooping through travelers' luggage, not more Homeland "Security"/TSA goon squads, and not more x-ray scanners operated by higher-paid inspectors. It is to quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business. Don't we have enough problems at home to keep us busy? Please read Pape's book before you start flaming me. Thank you. If you don't have time to read it, please read five or more of the 38 reviews on Amazon.com, where it received 4 1/2 stars. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 11:09 PM 3/3/07 -0500, LNMolino at aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 3/3/2007 8:40:32 P.M. Central Standard Time, >crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: > >In time, this terrorism with pass, > >Please tell me you're not serious? "this terrorism" will likely be with us >for millenniums as it has in other parts of the world. We are in a >world where >one can get from any point on the planet to another point in mere hours if >not days. The spread of the threat is very real and will not just be gone and >it IS a RAD issue as some would seek to take the power of the atom to do >evil >deeds with and they would not hesitates in dying to do so hence WE should be >concerned about it. > >Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 11:27:47 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 10:27:47 -0700 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <005701c75e2c$c8196d30$0200a8c0@Shop> References: <339064.22578.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> March 4 Yes, we need to understand motive. If we don't understand motive we will never be able to devise an intellectually rigorous and philosophically sound solution. I believe it is known elsewhere as root cause analysis. Steven Dapra At 02:14 AM 3/4/07 -0500, Syd H. Levine wrote: >John: > >You wanted to know what I meant in my earlier email (which email did not >reach the list since I was on a different account), well you just stated >it succinctly. > >"Maybe if we understood their motivation, we could prevent future acts of >terrorism." > >Can you understand the killing of innocents no matter how oppressed the >offenders argue they may be? I hope you cannot. Subhuman is a figure of >speech of course, but if anything is subhuman behavior, it is terrorism. >Would you have argued we needed to understand motivation at Nuremburg? [edit] From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Sun Mar 4 12:45:57 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 19:45:57 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <000001c75e8d$5f7a2ab0$49197254@pc1> RADSAFErs, What has been during the last days and partly during the last weeks distributed on RADSAFE is not only unbelievable to a European with ties all over the world, but it is unacceptable to any person trying to promote international understanding, like I do and what in my opinion one of the not openly promoted goals of RADSAFE should be. I do not explicitely refer to the Nazi speak, which obviously continues, but I have recently several times stated that this list is an international one, but obviously some US hardliners still regard it as "their own", which can be clearly observed by the fact that postings, not fitting to their preconceived opinion are flamed. Therefore I am extremely grateful that (unfortunately only a few) scientists have found clear words against this fearmongering about hypothetical terrorist attacks which allows one country to treat airline passengers by the tens or hundreds of thousands or even millions like potential criminals and finally now "forcing" them to pose naked at check-in. ALARA is in this context a rather small point compared with the intrusion of the private sphere. We have had at RADSAFE during many years a large amount of contributions dealing with the extremely low probability of harm by DU, other discharges etc. I accept them all without any restriction. But then I may be allowed to ask about the probability of becoming a victim at an aeroplane, which has not checked passengers "parading" naked before boarding. ALARA means "as low as reasonably achievable" - many have obviously forgotten this meaning. Reasonably achievable is to prohibit any radiation application which does not pose any reasonable advantage - and the airport X-ray screening is in this category. Best regards, Franz (for all except Mr. Perle) Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA From lnmolino at aol.com Sun Mar 4 13:05:09 2007 From: lnmolino at aol.com (lnmolino at aol.com) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:05:09 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site Message-ID: <8C92CA729BBC1A2-12AC-AD85@WEBMAIL-MC14.sysops.aol.com> An interesting site but how accurate it is is a guess on my part. http://www.roadtechs.com/rpchron.htm -- Lou Molino, Sr. FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI >From the road some where ;) ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 13:12:27 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 11:12:27 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] A drug to fend off radiation Message-ID: <45EAA99B.16433.2D6899D3@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: A drug to fend off radiation Despite Bush warnings, U.S. ill-prepared for nuclear attack Fortunes rebound for Europe's last uranium mine Guv plans to cut off N-waste expansion Yucca Issue Presents Dilemma for Democrats ----------------------------------------- A drug to fend off radiation New Scientist news service Mar 4 - Emergency workers attending the scene of a "dirty" bomb or nuclear blast could soon have a drug to help protect them. People exposed to radioactive material often die weeks later of acute radiation syndrome, as blood cells vital to clotting and fighting infection die off, and bone marrow cells killed by radiation cannot replace them. There is currently no preventive treatment. Hollis-Eden Pharmaceuticals of San Diego, California, now reports that 5-androstenediol (AED), an adrenal gland hormone that stimulates marrow-cell growth, cuts the death rate among monkeys exposed to 6 grays of radiation - usually enough to kill 32 per cent of them - to 12 per cent, mainly by boosting blood platelets (International Immunopharmacology, vol 7, p 500). The 40 monkeys were given intramuscular injections of AED 4 hours after exposure and then once daily for five days. Hollis-Eden stressed no other treatments, such as blood transfusions - which are unlikely to be widely available after a mass-casualty attack - were administered. The results suggest AED, which has already passed initial safety tests in people, may even protect victims of a blast if administered quickly enough after exposure. Amid growing fears of terrorist attacks with radioactive materials, the US government plans to award a contract for the treatment for acute radiation syndrome later this month under its revamped BioShield fund for civilian defences against chemical, biological and nuclear threats. -------------- Despite Bush warnings, U.S. ill-prepared for nuclear attack WASHINGTON (McClatchy Washington Bureau) Mar 4 - Although the Bush administration has warned repeatedly about the threat of a terrorist nuclear attack and spent more than $300 billin to protect the homeland, the government remains ill-prepared to respond to a nuclear catastrophe. Experts and government documents suggest that, absent a major preparedness push, the U.S. response to a mushroom cloud could be worse than the debacle after Hurricane Katrina, possibly contributing to civil disorder and costing thousands of lives. ``The United States is unprepared to mitigate the consequences of a nuclear attack,'' Pentagon analyst John Brinkerhoff concluded in a July 31, 2005, draft of a confidential memo to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. ``We were unable to find any group or office with a coherent approach to this very important aspect of homeland security. ``This is a bad situation. The threat of a nuclear attack is real, and action is needed now to learn how to deal with one.'' Col. Jill Morgenthaler, Illinois' director of homeland security, said there's a ``disconnect'' between President Bush's and Vice President Dick Cheney's nuclear threat talk and the administration's actions. ``I don't see money being focused on actual response and mitigation to a nuclear threat,'' she said. Interviews by McClatchy Newspapers with more than 15 radiation and emergency preparedness experts and a review of internal documents revealed: o The government has yet to launch an educational program, akin to the Cold War-era civil defense campaign promoting fallout shelters, to teach Americans how to shield themselves from radiation, especially from the fallout plume, which could deposit deadly particles up to 100 miles from ground zero. o Analysts estimate that as many as 300,000 emergency workers would be needed after a nuclear attack, but predict that the radiation would scare many of them away from the disaster site. o Hospital emergency rooms wouldn't be able to handle the surge of people who were irradiated or the many more who feared they were. o Medical teams would have to improvise to treat what could be tens of thousands of burn victims because most cities have only one or two available burn-unit beds. Cham Dallas, director of the University of Georgia's Center for Mass Destruction Defense, called the predicament ``the worst link in our health care wall.'' o Several drugs are in development and one is especially promising, but the government hasn't acquired any significant new medicine to counteract radiation's devastating effects on victims' blood-forming bone marrow. Over the past three years, several federal agencies have taken some steps in nuclear disaster planning. The Department of Health and Human Services has drawn up ``playbooks'' for a range of attack scenarios and created a Web site to instruct emergency responders in treating radiation victims. The Energy Department's Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory is geared to use real-time weather data, within minutes of a bombing, to create a computer model that charts the likely path of a radioactive fallout plume so that the government can warn affected people to take shelter or evacuate. The government also has modeled likely effects in blast zones. Capt. Ann Knebel, the U.S. Public Health Service's deputy preparedness chief, said her agency is using the models to understand how many people in different zones would suffer from blast injuries, burns or radiation sickness ``and to begin to match our resources to the types of injuries.'' No matter how great the government's response, a nuclear bomb's toll would be staggering. The government's National Planning Scenario, which isn't public, projects that a relatively small, improvised 10-kiloton bomb could kill hundreds of thousands of people in a medium-sized city and cause hundreds of billions of dollars in economic losses. The document, last updated in April 2005, projects that a bomb detonated at ground level in Washington, D.C., would kill as many as 204,600 people, including many government officials, and would injure or sicken 90,800. Another 24,580 victims would die of radiation- related cancer in ensuing years. Radioactive debris would contaminate a 3,000-square-mile area, requiring years-long cleanup, it said. Brinkerhoff, author of the confidential memo for the Joint Chiefs, estimated that nearly 300,000 National Guard members, military reservists and civil emergency personnel would be needed to rescue, decontaminate, process and manage the 1.5 million evacuees. The job would include cordoning off the blast zone and manning a 200- mile perimeter around the fallout area to process and decontaminate victims, to turn others away from the danger and to maintain order. Brinkerhoff estimated that the military would need to provide 140,000 of the 300,000 responders, but doubted that the Pentagon would have that many. And the Public Health Service's Knebel cited studies suggesting that the ``fear factor'' would reduce civil emergency responders by more than 30 percent. Planning for an attack seems to evoke a sense of resignation among some officials. ``We are concerned about the catastrophic threats and are trying to improve our abilities for disasters,'' said Gerald Parker, a deputy assistant secretary in Health and Human Services' new Office of Preparedness and Response. ``But you have to look at what's pragmatic as well.'' Dr. Andrew Garrett, of Columbia University's National Center for Disaster Preparedness, put it this way: ``People are just very intimidated to take on the problem'' because ``there may not be apparent solutions right now.'' The U.S. intelligence community considers it a ``fairly remote'' possibility that terrorists will obtain weapons-grade plutonium or highly enriched uranium, which is more accessible, to build a nuclear weapon, said a senior intelligence official who requested anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information. The official said intelligence agencies worry mainly about a makeshift, radioactive ``dirty bomb'' that would kill at most a few hundred people, contaminate part of a city and spread panic. But concerns about a larger nuclear attack are increasing at a time when North Korea is testing atomic weapons and Iran is believed to be pursuing them. Al-Qaida's worldwide network of terrorists also reportedly has been reconstituted. The Sept. 11 commission's 2004 report rated a nuclear bombing as the most consequential threat facing the nation. ``We called for a maximum effort against the threat,'' Lee Hamilton, the panel's vice chairman, told McClatchy Newspapers. ``My impression is that we've got a long ways to go. . . . I just think it would overwhelm us.'' Dr. Ira Helfand, a Massachusetts emergency care doctor who co- authored a report on nuclear preparedness last year by the Physicians for Social Responsibility, chided the administration for trying ``to create a climate of fear rather than to identify a problem and address it.'' The doctors' group found the government ``dangerously unprepared'' for a nuclear attack. Government officials say they have drafted playbooks for every sort of radioactive attack, from a ``dirty bomb'' to a large, sophisticated device. But radiation experts and government memos emphasize the chaos that a bigger bomb could create. Emergency responders could face power outages, leaking gas lines, buckled bridges and tunnels, disrupted communications from the blast's electromagnetic pulse and streets clogged by vehicle crashes because motorists could be blinded by the bright flash accompanying detonation. No equipment exists to shield rescue teams from radiation, and survivors would face similar risks if they tried to walk to safety. Defense analyst Brinkerhoff proposed having troops gradually tighten the ring around the blast zone as the radiation diminished, but warned that the government lacks the hundreds of radiation meters needed to ensure that they wouldn't endanger themselves. He said those making rescue forays would need dosimeters to monitor their exposure. Emergency teams would have no quick test to determine the extent of survivors' radiation exposure. They would have to rely on tests for white blood cell declines or quiz people about their whereabouts during the blast and whether they had vomited. For those with potentially lethal acute radiation sickness, only limited medication is available, said Richard Hatchett, who is overseeing nearly $100 million in research on radiation countermeasures for the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases. The Department of Health and Human Services might commit to a limited purchase of one promising drug as early as this month. But currently, federal health officials plan to fly victims of acute radiation sickness to hospitals across the country for bone marrow transplants. The National Planning Scenario expressed concern that uninformed survivors of an attack could be lethally exposed to radiation because they failed to seek shelter, preferably in a sealed basement, for three to four days while radioactive debris decayed. Another big problem: Only a small percentage of Americans store bottled water, canned food and other essentials for an ordeal in a shelter. Helfand said it would be too late to help most people near the blast, but that advance education could save many people in the path of the fallout. Education is critical, he said, because attempting to evacuate could ``put you on a crowded freeway where you'll be stuck in traffic and get the maximum radiation exposure.'' California's emergency services chief, Henry Renteria, said it might be time ``to re-establish an urban area radiation shelter program.'' Brinkerhoff wrote that people could build their own radiation-proof shelters if the government engaged in ``large-scale civil defense planning'' and gave them meters and dosimeters to monitor the radiation. Since there hasn't been ``any enthusiasm to address this kind of preparedness,'' Brinkerhoff concluded, the only choice for most people would be to flee. ---------------- Fortunes rebound for Europe's last uranium mine DOLNI ROZINKA, Czech Republic (AFP) - Everything from the faded blue overalls donned by the miners to the bone-jolting trains and primitive extraction methods seem to cry out for Europe's last operating uranium mine to be turned into a museum. The Czech government would probably have closed the state-owned Rozna mine in 2004 if it had not been for the around 1,000 jobs at stake in the small towns and villages nestled in the hills of this relatively undeveloped south-east corner of the country. But last week, industry minister Martin Riman rejected a 640-million koruna (22.5-million euro) bid by Australian uranium mining company Uran Limited for a 50 percent stake in exploitation of current and future uranium reserves. And he held out the prospect of a new lease of life for the mine if research uncovers fresh reserves of the now coveted resource. "Uran's bid is interesting but we can mine and survey for reserves on our own," the minister announced. The Rozna mine has seen its fortunes improve as the price for uranium, used to feed nuclear reactors, soars on concerns about global warming and the cost and security of fossil fuel supplies, such as coal and oil. The price hit record highs in February after an eightfold increase over the last three years. It had barely budged during the previous decade. As a result, Rozna's previously loss-making annual production of around 300 tonnes of uranium now turns a profit. "There is about 0.25 percent of uranium in every tonne extracted compared with about 0.10 percent for similar operations in India. It is a very respectable quality," boasted chief engineer Petr Kriz. He admits conditions below ground for the 115 miners - the rest of the workforce are support staff and employed in processing and cleaning operations - appear primitive. Wire netting and rusting corrugated iron panels and air ducts cover the network of tunnels of the 24-floor complex. Engineers cut timber supports at the cramped faces where small teams of miners will work with the aid of hammer drills and a mechanical claw to pull rocks towards waiting wagons. The Australian company claimed modernisation could boost production and profits at Rozna but Kriz argued: "There is not much space, it is difficult to use other methods." The mine was opened in 1958 not for profit, but as part of the Cold War uranium mining boom when communist Czechoslovakia was one of the main suppliers of the Soviet military-industrial complex. It was one of half a dozen major uranium mines dotted across the country which sent 96,600 tonnes of uranium, currently valued at more than 470 billion koruna (16.7 billion euros), to the Soviet Union between 1945 and 1989. "At today's prices we can clearly realise what a fortune was sent by socialist Czechoslovakia almost free of charge to the Soviet Union," Riman commented dryly. In the early years of the Czechoslovak industry, the price of uranium mining was primarily human. German prisoners of war were used at first for the dangerous, radiation-exposed work. The communist regime, which seized power in 1948, later sent its political prisoners down the mines. Over 45,000 people were employed in uranium mining in 1954 with output and deliveries to the Soviet Union peaking at around 3,000 tonnes in 1961, just before the Cold War threatened to turn into a nuclear conflagration. In Rozna's drab offices, pictures charting the mine's achievements are written in both Czech and Russian, harking back to the brothers- in-arms production era. Today's managers stress that political prisoners were a feature of the earlier post-war mines, but not theirs. In the 1960's, the environment was mining's main casualty as heavily polluting chemical extraction methods were used at some locations. The massive, multi-billion koruna clean-up is likely to last another 40 years. When the Cold War ended, so did much of the exports. "The armaments race stopped and fuel for power plants started to be prepared from nuclear warheads with enormous reserves of this in Russia," recalls Jiri Jez, the head of state company Diamo, which runs Rozna. In the early 1990's, Czech mining plummeted to 20 percent of its average over the previous decade, Jez added. The 65-year-old, who has worked with the firm ever since starting out as a 17-year-old milling machine operator, now sees a uranium revival beckoning not only for Rozna but for other sites in the north and east of the country. -------------- Guv plans to cut off N-waste expansion Huntsman may bypass new legislation and ask regulatory group to cap material coming to Utah SNELLING, S.C. (The Salt Lake Tribune) Mar 4 - l debris is no cause for celebration. Chem-Nuclear, - In this rural county beset by high unemployment, the soon-to-arrive day when the local nuclear-waste landfill closes its doors to nearly ala disposal site for low-level radioactive waste from hospitals and power plants around the nation, offers some of the county's few high-paying jobs, provides roughly 10 percent of its overall budget and pumps $1 million a year into local schools. It has also handed out college scholarships and bought equipment for police and paramedics. The landfill has long been under attack from environmentalists, and a 2000 state law says that starting next year, it can accept waste only from South Carolina and two other states. But now, as that date draws near, lawmakers are considering extending the deadline to 2023. Locals say that changing the law is vital and that outsiders just don't understand how important the landfill is. In its heyday from 1980 to the early 1990s, Chem-Nuclear employed hundreds of people. In 1980, it collected 2.4 million cubic feet of the solid, radioactive waste, which is stored in steel containers that are put in concrete vaults and then buried in long trenches. Bought last year by Utah-based EnergySolutions, it is now one of three landfills in the nation for low-level radioactive waste. Utah and Washington have the others. Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. took blow after blow last week over his decision on a radioactive-waste oversight bill. Partisans on both sides used words like "wimp" and "coward" after he let SB155 go into law without his signature. Nuclear-waste company EnergySolutions congratulated itself and its friends in the Legislature for winning the latest round of Utah's waste wars. They had rolled the wildly popular governor and cleared the way for an expansion Huntsman vowed to block. Nuclear-waste opponents, revved by Huntsman's successful face-off over the federal government's Divine Strake, were bitterly disappointed he did not use a veto to make it clear, as he has said throughout his term, "our state will not become the dumping ground for other states' nuclear waste." Around 1,000 of them urged the governor to veto the bill. But, now that the fog of the 2007 Legislature has started to clear, it looks like Huntsman landed a sucker punch. He tucked a few lines in his SB155 announcement that basically say he will use another tool to rein in the nuclear-waste company. And, if he succeeds at capping waste coming to the company's mile-square landfill in Tooele County, EnergySolutions won't be open another 30 years, but maybe only a few. The move has the potential to ripple across a nation that has come to rely on Utah for affordable nuclear-waste disposal and to cripple a company built on 20-year contracts. "If Huntsman's good on his word," said Vanessa Pierce, executive director of the Healthy Environment Alliance of Utah, or HEAL, "then this is going to be a fight to determine who has the real power when it comes to nuclear waste: the governor or EnergySolutions." Neither the Governor's Office nor EnergySolutions is willing to publicly admit as much. Huntsman's regulatory and legal team is drafting a promised letter to the Northwest Interstate Compact on Low-level Radioactive Waste to seek its help in capping the waste allowed at the Utah site. In effect, he is using his role as a member of the federally established waste-control group to say "no" to further EnergySolutions expansion. Mike Mower, the governor's spokesman, declined to reveal what the letter will say or to predict how well the strategy would work. All Mower would say is, "Governor Huntsman is committed to keeping additional waste out of our state." EnergySolutions, the nation's largest nuclear-waste company, also had little to add. Greg Hopkins, vice president for public relations at the company, insists the company got what it wanted with the enactment of SB155. The bill protects his company from what other waste companies describe as an "intimidation provision," a section of Utah law that requires companies to receive the approval of local elected officials, the Legislature and the governor if they want to establish or greatly expand a waste site. "We're focused on maintaining our business and maintaining the path we've been on," said Hopkins, who used to be Huntsman's lead political fundraiser. Hopkins would not comment on whether EnergySolutions recognizes the cap Huntsman announced Tuesday. "We're not angry about it because we don't know what it means," he said. An answer to that could come in the next three months, when members of the Northwest Compact have their next meeting. The Northwest Compact is a radioactive-waste club with 11 member states, including Utah. Low-level radioactive waste produced within those states - in industry, medicine and research - all has a place to go, a disposal site in Richland, Wash. Commercial waste from outside the states is not allowed in. Congress set up this system in 1980 because the three states with disposal sites - Washington, South Carolina and Nevada - complained they had become the nation's radioactive-waste dumping grounds and they were tired of it. Although Congress carved up the states into 10 regions, only three regions established sites for their low-level radioactive waste. Nevada's site began leaking, and it was closed. But no new disposal was then built - until EnergySolutions, then called Envirocare of Utah, came along. In November 1991, Envirocare President Khosrow Semnani joined state Radiation Control Bureau Chief Larry Anderson in petitioning the Northwest Compact for permission to open the gates to Envirocare. And ever since, the Utah site has taken all but the hottest waste from outside the Northwest Compact. A few years later, Anderson and Semnani would be embroiled in a public extortion-bribery scandal that resulted in tax charges and fines for both and more than a year in federal prison for the retired regulator. And former Gov. Norm Bangerter, who was in office when Utah opened the gates for low-level waste, would repay a $65,000 personal loan that Semnani made to him shortly after he had left office. But Utah's oversight system for radioactive waste had been established. And, state regulators would grant more than 80 license changes at the site in its 19 years. The result: EnergySolutions has become the nation's biggest site, accepting all but a small fraction of the nation's low-level waste. More than 16.6 million cubic feet flowed to the Utah site last year through the Northwest Compact, including radiation-tainted dirt from government cleanups and commercial waste. Envirocare joined with lawmakers and the governor two years ago to ban the hotter Class B and C radioactive waste. But when the company announced plans to expand onto acreage adjoining its mile-square site, Huntsman said "no." The company's friends in the Legislature, determined to help a generous campaign contributor, passed a bill to take away the requirement that the governor approve new waste sites and expansions. But Huntsman vetoed the bill, and the veto held up. This year, with SB155, a veto-proof majority of the Legislature and the company insisted that political leaders need no say over what happens at the Tooele County site as long as it stays within current boundaries and as long as it takes only Class A waste. But, with one sentence in his SB155 announcement Tuesday, Huntsman asserted executive branch authority. Michael Garner, executive director of the Northwest Compact, would not predict what might happen when member-states consider Huntsman's request at their upcoming meeting. Pierce, the HEAL director, wondered aloud whether EnergySolutions would acknowledge the compact's authority and whether lawmakers would force the governor to let expansion continue at the Tooele County site without his interference. Her group has struggled, sometimes against the Huntsman administration's radiation regulators, to stanch the flow of waste to Utah. "We are cautiously hopeful that the governor is going to use every power at his disposal to limit the waste going" to the Utah site, she said. "If that sticks in the long term, it is more than we could have ever hoped for, but there are so many legal and political obstacles in the way." EnergySolutions could fight in court. Or it could take the fight all the way to Congress, where congressional representatives from 36 states might kill the compact system altogether to protect their access to nuclear disposal in Utah. "We could be gearing up," said Pierce, "to see a really nasty battle between EnergySolutions and the state." ---------------- Yucca Issue Presents Dilemma for Democrats: Candidates Can't Please Nevadans and S.C. Residents at Same Mar. 4--Democratic candidates need more than quarters to play the political slot machine that is Nevada's January 2008 caucus. They need to oppose opening a nuclear waste repository in the state. While pulling that lever might be a winner in Nevada, it's a clunker in South Carolina. Palmetto State residents and nuclear power officials long have expected to send tons of high-level waste from South Carolina to a site near Las Vegas. Next year's Democratic caucus in far-away Nevada -- the second of three critical, early tests of a candidate's strength -- increases the possibility that high-level nuclear waste currently being stored in South Carolina will remain here longer than planned. Most Nevadans are strongly opposed to a plan to open a national repository for waste at Yucca Mountain, a hollowed-out ridge about 100 miles northwest of Las Vegas. No Democratic candidate seems eager to tell Nevada voters Yucca should serve as a national repository. All have either voted against it or voiced concerns about the project. One candidate, former U.S. Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., recently changed his position on Yucca. He voted to move forward with the project five years ago but now says he opposes Yucca and believes waste should be stored at the facilities where it is produced. Half of the Republican candidates -- who don't face caucus voters in Nevada -- support opening Yucca and have voted to do so. A couple -- former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney -- would not say if they would open Yucca. The response of the Romney campaign to a pair of questions about Yucca and nuclear waste storage did not even include the word "Yucca." Without a national repository or some other means of handling high- level waste from spent fuel, hundreds of tons of waste, stored at various nuclear facilities in South Carolina, would remain here and would not be shipped to Yucca, as energy officials here have long expected. Skeptics wonder if Yucca ever will open, noting the project has endured nearly 30 years of study and stalls. holding on Nuclear facilities across the Palmetto State long have had to store their own waste. It is not known precisely how much is stored here. Officials have said the amounts are significant. --Savannah River Site, the state's most visible nuclear facility, has 36 million gallons of waste, said Julie Petersen, a spokeswoman for the Department of Energy. --A Jenkinsville nuclear facility operated by South Carolina Electric & Gas produces about 26 tons of waste every 18 months, said Robert Yanity, a public affairs official at SCANA, SCE&G's parent. --Progress Energy's nuclear plant in Hartsville has stored 194 metric tons of waste, according to Andy Cole, a communications specialist for the company. --Officials at Duke Energy, which operates five nuclear facilities in York and Oconee counties, cited security concerns in not revealing how much waste is stored at their plants. And as nuclear facilities here continue to run, they continue to produce more waste. Some nuclear power companies want to expand their facilities to meet what they believe will be a growing demand for energy that does not contribute to global warming. More nuclear power means more waste, however. Nuclear officials say waste in South Carolina is stored safely and their facilities have the capacity to continue storing waste for the short term. But they won't define "short term." A report last year from the U.S. Senate's Committee on Environment and Public Works estimated waste stored at nuclear plants across the country can be safely held there for 100 years. The problem is the federal government is breaking a promise to the nuclear industry and its bill-paying customers, said Progress spokesman Cole. Power companies and customers have paid hundreds of millions of dollars in fees to the federal government as part of a 1982 agreement that called for the construction of a national repository. Progress Energy's Hartsville plant has paid about $150 million over the past 25 years, Cole said. Power companies have sued the federal government over its failure to open a site. Some have settled claims for millions. However, the Senate report, compiled when Republicans held a majority, estimated the government's liability could reach $56 billion. "It costs us a lot of money to store spent fuel, and that cost is passed on to our customers," Cole said. "It's like paying your mortgage and renting your house at the same time." taking a risk Opponents of Yucca, however, question whether waste can be stored there safely. "As Energy secretary, I saw no convincing scientific evidence that Yucca Mountain was an appropriate site for high-level nuclear waste," said New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, the Democratic presidential candidate who was Energy Department secretary during the Clinton administration. "We learned rainwater travels from the surface down to the level where the waste would be stored much faster than anyone expected. That poses a risk that radiation could escape from Yucca Mountain and reach the aquifer below." While Richardson said he opposes Yucca, he did not kill the project when he was head of the Energy Department, a fact he will have to explain to Nevada voters. Yucca is a front-burner issue in Nevada, one of the first things candidates are asked about when they campaign in the state. Nuclear storage, though, does not generate the same passion in South Carolina. Some government officials in the state want to continue accepting low- level waste because it brings in revenue. But they and others want the high-level waste moved to Yucca. Nevadans remain fiercely opposed to having their state serve as, in their words, "the nation's nuclear dumping ground." Dina Titus, minority leader of Nevada's state senate, said Democratic presidential candidates have no chance of winning the Nevada caucus if they don't oppose Yucca. "You need to be able to do that for two reasons," said Titus, a Democrat who has taught political science at the University of Nevada- Las Vegas for 30 years. "First, there's popular opinion. Secondly, no leading political figures would endorse you if you don't oppose Yucca Mountain." Titus said caucus voters tend to be the most active members of their party -- and the most strongly opposed to Yucca. Still, supporting Yucca is apparently not a deathblow in a statewide general election in Nevada. Over the vociferous opposition of the state's political leadership, President George W. Bush signed a law in 2002 designating Yucca as a national repository. Two years later, he carried Nevada on his way to re-election. Democrats looking to win Nevada's caucus next year -- and grab momentum toward their party's nomination -- must grapple with the challenge of keeping voters in Nevada and South Carolina happy when many want a different outcome on the same issue. Edwards' change of heart on the issue illustrates the difficulty of that challenge. He is counting on success in his native state's primary, which follows Nevada by a week. Edwards has attempted to keep himself balanced on the political high wire stretching from the Palmetto State to Nevada. "To the extent possible, the waste should be stored where it's created and neither Nevada nor South Carolina should serve as the nation's dumping grounds," he said in a statement issued by his campaign. "Waste can be safely stored where it is produced while we develop a long-term solution that will not put anyone's health or safety at risk." ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From WesVanPelt at verizon.net Sun Mar 4 13:35:39 2007 From: WesVanPelt at verizon.net (Wes Van Pelt) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 14:35:39 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Radiation Detector Design In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F26A@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> References: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F26A@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <000c01c75e94$4b5438d0$e1fcaa70$@net> Radsafers, The article pasted below claims to announce a new type of radiation detector. Does anyone know the details? Wes New email address: ?WesVanPelt at verizon.net Best regards, Wes Wesley R. Van Pelt, PhD, CIH, CHP Wesley R. Van Pelt Associates, Inc. ? Positron Corporation (OTCBB: POSC) (the Company), a developer and manufacturer of Positron Emission Tomography (PET) medical devices, announced today that through its subsidiary developed intellectual property in the field of solid state photo detection and its applications. The Company has four patents pending covering the design and construction of medical diagnostic molecular imaging scanners and radiation detection scanners for homeland security with its new class of solid state photodetectors. The compact, low-cost photodetectors have increased sensitivity that can detect a single quantum of light and may significantly reduce the cost of future PET scanners while improving spatial resolution and portability. Solid state photodetectors are the key component in the development of compact organ-specific PET scanners and effective radiation detection devices for monitoring of radiation proliferation by parties unfriendly to national security interests. The Company's research and development projects were conducted at facilities across North America with the participation of a team of collaborating scientists directed by Dr. Irving Weinberg. Dr. Weinberg is Chief Scientific Officer of the Positron research and development subsidiary. The miniaturization afforded with this solid state photodetector technology is designed as the evolution of positron emission technologies that will enable the development of the next generation of efficient and economical full-body scanning devices, integrated PET/MRI scanners and the development of a single-use organ specific low-cost camera that can be disposed of after a single medical procedure. The homeland security application is based on the ability to build a small transportable device using the compact solid state technology to detect very low levels of radiation emitted by illicit radioactive materials from a distance. Dr. Irving Weinberg stated: "The solid state photodetectors will allow us to build radiation detection systems with high sensitivity. In new medical diagnostic nuclear imaging systems it will allow reduced patient radiation exposure because of lower radiopharmaceutical dosage, while in the homeland security application, a small radiation event can be detected from a substantial distance". From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 13:38:44 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 11:38:44 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site In-Reply-To: <8C92CA729BBC1A2-12AC-AD85@WEBMAIL-MC14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5B7@gdses.corp.gds.com> Louis, Looks like an excellent site for not only the roadtech, but also those interested in other radiation related topics. Another site that you may be interested in is http://www.nukeworker.com/ Regards, Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of lnmolino at aol.com Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 11:05 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site An interesting site but how accurate it is is a guess on my part. http://www.roadtechs.com/rpchron.htm -- Lou Molino, Sr. FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI >From the road some where ;) ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 15:01:05 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:01:05 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304095246.009fb9b0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5BC@gdses.corp.gds.com> Steven, Thank you for your references. I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we need to "quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business." Our government has done that way too often, attempting to instill our way of life on others, who will never do so. Cultures are different, history is different, and it's time our elected politicians follow the will of the people instead of trying to make a name for themselves, or, providing the very lobbyists and financial supporters who helped get them into office, wealthy and more powerful. The only disagreement I have with you and others who have stated that there is no need for additional security measures, that there is a paranoia about security, is to say that many of the terrorist groups have continued to state their fascination with terror through the use of airlines. This comes from their own documents and statements. The many terrorist groups are well funded, they individuals are well educated, they have demonstrated that they can plan extremely complicated plots, and, they have unbelievable patience. Yes, they will find kinks in the amour, but that doesn't mean that we should give up trying to outsmart them. The last factor is the human factor. When an individual is willing to give up their life for a cause that they strongly believe in, the task of thwarting their efforts is even more difficult. The so-called paranoia is also not just a USA delusion. Many of the European airports (and I am not talking just about terminals and gates that ultimately funnel passengers to the USA) each have their own x-ray scanning equipment at each gate in addition to the general security check-points. These are terminals and gates that only transport individuals within the EU for example, and throughout the orient as well. As far as the new body scanners, that too will not just be a USA option. Other countries will also be evaluating the pilot testing here, and will be installing these units their airports as well. We don't drive that, their concerns do. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- The solution is not more people snooping through travelers' luggage, not more Homeland "Security"/TSA goon squads, and not more x-ray scanners operated by higher-paid inspectors. It is to quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business. Don't we have enough problems at home to keep us busy? From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 15:26:37 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:26:37 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <000001c75e8d$5f7a2ab0$49197254@pc1> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> March 4 You are correct, Franz, in stating that "this list is an international one". I would like to hear something from Austria. Why don't you present a short discussion and assessment of the current state of ALARA in Austria. (I do not know how widespread ALARA is, and am assuming it is used in Austria.) You could tell us how Austrian regulators interpret and apply ALARA. You could explain what the nuclear industry thinks of the regulators, and of ALARA, and how the industry copes with both. That would be a good place to start. After that has been thrashed out, we could move on to ALARA in other European countries, and in the Scandanavian countries. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 15:40:38 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:40:38 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site In-Reply-To: <8C92CA729BBC1A2-12AC-AD85@WEBMAIL-MC14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304143703.009f60d0@mail.swcp.com> March 4 An interesting site, too be sure. How would one track down any of the claims? The compiler gives source material that is not connected with any specific claim. And how about this one: "1784 William Morgan unknowingly produces X-rays in experiment witnessed by Ben Franklin." X-rays with no electricity? Did Ben harness a bolt of lightning? Is this a joke? Inquiring minds want to know (heh, heh.) Steven Dapra At 02:05 PM 3/4/07 -0500, lnmolino at aol.com wrote: >An interesting site but how accurate it is is a guess on my part. > >http://www.roadtechs.com/rpchron.htm > >-- >Lou Molino, Sr. >FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > >>From the road some where ;) From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 15:59:43 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:59:43 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interesting site In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304143703.009f60d0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5BD@gdses.corp.gds.com> Good point! Perhaps a communication with Mr. Weaver would provide a basis and source of his information. >From the website: For an updated version contact the author at JEW1 at PGE.COM or phone (805) 545-3029 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- An interesting site, too be sure. How would one track down any of the claims? The compiler gives source material that is not connected with any specific claim. And how about this one: "1784 William Morgan unknowingly produces X-rays in experiment witnessed by Ben Franklin." X-rays with no electricity? Did Ben harness a bolt of lightning? Is this a joke? Inquiring minds want to know (heh, heh.) Steven Dapra From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 16:01:52 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 14:01:52 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site - sources In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304143703.009f60d0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5BE@gdses.corp.gds.com> Umm.. at he bottom of the website Mr. Weaver does provide a list of sources he used. However, to determine which source was used for which claim would be difficult at best, without some initial assistance from Mr. Weaver. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Steven Dapra Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 1:41 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site March 4 An interesting site, too be sure. How would one track down any of the claims? The compiler gives source material that is not connected with any specific claim. And how about this one: "1784 William Morgan unknowingly produces X-rays in experiment witnessed by Ben Franklin." X-rays with no electricity? Did Ben harness a bolt of lightning? Is this a joke? Inquiring minds want to know (heh, heh.) Steven Dapra At 02:05 PM 3/4/07 -0500, lnmolino at aol.com wrote: >An interesting site but how accurate it is is a guess on my part. > >http://www.roadtechs.com/rpchron.htm > >-- >Lou Molino, Sr. >FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > >>From the road some where ;) _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Sun Mar 4 16:03:39 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:03:39 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <1154CFFA1D5F4CF6B115D25C076D3F67@JohnPC> Steven, Franz and other "radsafers" Don't forget Canada John John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dapra" To: "Franz Sch?nhofer" ; Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE > March 4 > > You are correct, Franz, in stating that "this list is an > international one". I would like to hear something from Austria. Why > don't you present a short discussion and assessment of the current state > of ALARA in Austria. (I do not know how widespread ALARA is, and am > assuming it is used in Austria.) You could tell us how Austrian > regulators interpret and apply ALARA. You could explain what the nuclear > industry thinks of the regulators, and of ALARA, and how the industry > copes with both. That would be a good place to start. After that has > been thrashed out, we could move on to ALARA in other European countries, > and in the Scandanavian countries. > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 16:31:42 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:31:42 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE Message-ID: <1784313166-1173047486-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1419129115-@bxe002-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Hi John, Canada has a lot to offer. I communicate regularly with the CNSC and the NDR, and our annual dosimetry symposium has had the pleasure of their staff presenting on the accreditation process and the National Dose Registry. I hope to see more topics posted in response to Steve's excellent comments and request. Regards, Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 16:47:48 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:47:48 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <1154CFFA1D5F4CF6B115D25C076D3F67@JohnPC> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> March 4 Canada? What's that? (Har, har.) Okay, John, jump in. What's going in Canada (or at least in British Columbia) with ALARA? India? Pakistan? South Africa? Brazil? Mexico? This is an international list. Let's hear from everyone. (South Pole?) Steven Dapra At 02:03 PM 3/4/07 -0800, John R Johnson wrote: >Steven, Franz and other "radsafers" > >Don't forget Canada > >John > >John R Johnson >CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >(604) 222-9840 >idias at interchange.ubc.ca > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dapra" >To: "Franz Sch?nhofer" ; >Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 1:26 PM >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE > > >>March 4 >> >> You are correct, Franz, in stating that "this list is an >> international one". I would like to hear something from Austria. Why >> don't you present a short discussion and assessment of the current state >> of ALARA in Austria. (I do not know how widespread ALARA is, and am >> assuming it is used in Austria.) You could tell us how Austrian >> regulators interpret and apply ALARA. You could explain what the >> nuclear industry thinks of the regulators, and of ALARA, and how the >> industry copes with both. That would be a good place to start. After >> that has been thrashed out, we could move on to ALARA in other European >> countries, and in the Scandanavian countries. >> >>Steven Dapra >>sjd at swcp.com >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >>Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >>the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >>http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >>For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >>visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From srh at esper.com Sun Mar 4 17:45:28 2007 From: srh at esper.com (Shawn Hughes (Road2)) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 18:45:28 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Terror in the US & world at large Message-ID: <000001c75eb7$35e1e010$b8a290c6@LAPTOP2> "Security"/TSA goon squads" As a person peripherially in the Homeland Security Field, I have tried to stay clear of this discussion. I find it interesting that many of the professionals on this board grow quickly incensed when others outside of their profession start offering opinons on their field. Yet, many of you are doing the exact same thing right now to security professionals. In fact, to some of you we are no more than 'goons'. Are we goons when we find things capable of taking YOUR flight out of the sky? Are we goons when we develop new technology, maybe not THE answer, but at least showing we are making an effort to do something? Those of you that think "leaving them alone abroad" or similar pap are very, very ignorant of the past 100 years of terrorism. So that you can't say noone knowledgeable told you, there is a slowly coalescing group of people who want to kill you (yes, *you* ) based on no more than where your passport was issued. Remaining silent and impartial about events in SouthWest Asia makes as much sense as the US staying out of WWII. I realize this is a worldwide list. I assume by the responses there are few radiation professionals in Ireland and Botswana, because those people would tell you volumes about sticking your head in the sand as long as terrorism isn't affecting you on a personal level. I am disappointed by the lack of interest in security on this forum. All of you should understand, painfully, what happens when you have weak security and someone takes advantage of it. I'll return to lurking, because occasionally there is data here important to what I do. I remain, -Shawn +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Shawn R. Hughes Special Projects Consultant near Oak Ridge, Tennessee [suppressed] telephone srh at esper.com primary email [suppressed] fledgling webpage WARNING AND NOTICE: This email may contain privileged information. If it is not addressed to you by me, you do not have the right to read or use it. If you do not get a prompt reply to your email from me, it is because I have set filtering very high due to the age of my account. Please try an alternate form of messaging. UNCLASSIFIED END TEXT From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Sun Mar 4 17:56:58 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:56:58 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <0A3DA9AAD84543D380A3A82277A10F73@JohnPC> Steven The best place to find ALARA requirements in Canada is in G-129 Revision 1, 2004. It can be found at http://www.nuclearsafety.gc.ca/pubs_catalogue/uploads/G129rev1_e.pdf I looked in an old Worksafe BC requirement (from when they were called the WCB) called Part 7 that I have on my computer but could not find a reference to ALARA. My information was taken from http://www2.worksafebc.com/Publications/OHSRegulation/GuidelinePart7.asp#SectionNumber:G7.20(1)-1 Guidelines Part 7 - Division 3 - Radiation Exposure; downloaded on 03/02/06. I think that ALARA has been commonly considered in Canada, even when it was call ALAP, but did find that this was the case in the US when I worked there from 1988 to 1999. John John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Dapra To: John R Johnson ; radsafe at radlab.nl Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE March 4 Canada? What's that? (Har, har.) Okay, John, jump in. What's going in Canada (or at least in British Columbia) with ALARA? India? Pakistan? South Africa? Brazil? Mexico? This is an international list. Let's hear from everyone. (South Pole?) Steven Dapra At 02:03 PM 3/4/07 -0800, John R Johnson wrote: Steven, Franz and other "radsafers" Don't forget Canada John John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dapra" To: "Franz Sch?nhofer" ; Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE March 4 You are correct, Franz, in stating that "this list is an international one". I would like to hear something from Austria. Why don't you present a short discussion and assessment of the current state of ALARA in Austria. (I do not know how widespread ALARA is, and am assuming it is used in Austria.) You could tell us how Austrian regulators interpret and apply ALARA. You could explain what the nuclear industry thinks of the regulators, and of ALARA, and how the industry copes with both. That would be a good place to start. After that has been thrashed out, we could move on to ALARA in other European countries, and in the Scandanavian countries. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From syd.levine at mindspring.com Sun Mar 4 17:58:23 2007 From: syd.levine at mindspring.com (Syd H. Levine) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 18:58:23 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5BC@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> Somebody needs to stick their nose into a few folks' business. Are we proud we exercised restraint and allowed millions to be murdered by the Nazis before we decided to mind their business? What about Pol Pot; we sat idly by while millions were murdered because after Vietnam, it certainly was not politically expedient to get involved in that part of the world. Pol Pot appears to be second only to Hitler in the extermination of innocents. I suspect that someday, our involvement in the middle east right now may be viewed in a different light, whatever our ungrateful European friends may presently think. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Perle" To: "'Steven Dapra'" ; Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large Steven, Thank you for your references. I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we need to "quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business." Our government has done that way too often, attempting to instill our way of life on others, who will never do so. Cultures are different, history is different, and it's time our elected politicians follow the will of the people instead of trying to make a name for themselves, or, providing the very lobbyists and financial supporters who helped get them into office, wealthy and more powerful. The only disagreement I have with you and others who have stated that there is no need for additional security measures, that there is a paranoia about security, is to say that many of the terrorist groups have continued to state their fascination with terror through the use of airlines. This comes from their own documents and statements. The many terrorist groups are well funded, they individuals are well educated, they have demonstrated that they can plan extremely complicated plots, and, they have unbelievable patience. Yes, they will find kinks in the amour, but that doesn't mean that we should give up trying to outsmart them. The last factor is the human factor. When an individual is willing to give up their life for a cause that they strongly believe in, the task of thwarting their efforts is even more difficult. The so-called paranoia is also not just a USA delusion. Many of the European airports (and I am not talking just about terminals and gates that ultimately funnel passengers to the USA) each have their own x-ray scanning equipment at each gate in addition to the general security check-points. These are terminals and gates that only transport individuals within the EU for example, and throughout the orient as well. As far as the new body scanners, that too will not just be a USA option. Other countries will also be evaluating the pilot testing here, and will be installing these units their airports as well. We don't drive that, their concerns do. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- The solution is not more people snooping through travelers' luggage, not more Homeland "Security"/TSA goon squads, and not more x-ray scanners operated by higher-paid inspectors. It is to quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business. Don't we have enough problems at home to keep us busy? _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 18:35:40 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 00:35:40 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5BC@gdses.corp.gds.com> <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> Message-ID: <1964152151-1173054923-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-2004450991-@bxe056-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> The interventions Syd mentions were warranted. The USA should intervene where there is ethnic cleansing and genocide. We should be expending $$ to feed and defend those in Darfur and where others are suffering, including those here at home. Intervening in areas where we have observed faulty intelligence, and then adding other geographical areas based on the same "intelligence engine" is just not very smart. Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: "Syd H. Levine" Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 18:58:23 To:,"'Steven Dapra'" , Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large Somebody needs to stick their nose into a few folks' business. Are we proud we exercised restraint and allowed millions to be murdered by the Nazis before we decided to mind their business? What about Pol Pot; we sat idly by while millions were murdered because after Vietnam, it certainly was not politically expedient to get involved in that part of the world. Pol Pot appears to be second only to Hitler in the extermination of innocents. I suspect that someday, our involvement in the middle east right now may be viewed in a different light, whatever our ungrateful European friends may presently think. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Perle" To: "'Steven Dapra'" ; Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large Steven, Thank you for your references. I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we need to "quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business." Our government has done that way too often, attempting to instill our way of life on others, who will never do so. Cultures are different, history is different, and it's time our elected politicians follow the will of the people instead of trying to make a name for themselves, or, providing the very lobbyists and financial supporters who helped get them into office, wealthy and more powerful. The only disagreement I have with you and others who have stated that there is no need for additional security measures, that there is a paranoia about security, is to say that many of the terrorist groups have continued to state their fascination with terror through the use of airlines. This comes from their own documents and statements. The many terrorist groups are well funded, they individuals are well educated, they have demonstrated that they can plan extremely complicated plots, and, they have unbelievable patience. Yes, they will find kinks in the amour, but that doesn't mean that we should give up trying to outsmart them. The last factor is the human factor. When an individual is willing to give up their life for a cause that they strongly believe in, the task of thwarting their efforts is even more difficult. The so-called paranoia is also not just a USA delusion. Many of the European airports (and I am not talking just about terminals and gates that ultimately funnel passengers to the USA) each have their own x-ray scanning equipment at each gate in addition to the general security check-points. These are terminals and gates that only transport individuals within the EU for example, and throughout the orient as well. As far as the new body scanners, that too will not just be a USA option. Other countries will also be evaluating the pilot testing here, and will be installing these units their airports as well. We don't drive that, their concerns do. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- The solution is not more people snooping through travelers' luggage, not more Homeland "Security"/TSA goon squads, and not more x-ray scanners operated by higher-paid inspectors. It is to quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business. Don't we have enough problems at home to keep us busy? _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From maurysis at peoplepc.com Sun Mar 4 18:39:37 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 18:39:37 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <45EB66C9.1080909@peoplepc.com> Having given the matter serious consideration (interrupted by 2.7 blizzards, the South Pole weekly mean, SD=0.3) and three conference calls with Dog, the Polar Bear & Penguin Association has elected to refrain from participating in this flap. They are apprehensive about Austria and Kashmir foreign service interventions to impose new ALARA interpretations. Tuvalu update will follow. Best wishes to all Nations, Dog&Maury (maurysis at peoplepc.com) _________________ Visit the South Pole; nary a tsunami in 3,456 years! ========================= Steven Dapra wrote: > March 4 > > Canada? What's that? (Har, har.) > > Okay, John, jump in. What's going in Canada (or at least in > British Columbia) with ALARA? > > India? Pakistan? South Africa? Brazil? Mexico? This is an > international list. Let's hear from everyone. (South Pole?) > > Steven Dapra -----------------snipped------------ From jk5554 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 4 20:14:31 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 18:14:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> Message-ID: <20070305021431.57129.qmail@web32510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What if, by some crazy fluke, the French nationalist Jean-Marie LePen were elected on April 22nd and he decided to stick his nose into *our* business? What if France finally got tired of being labeled as "ungrateful" and started standing up very strongly for itself - - and the target was the U.S.? Just a hypothesis that is hardly based on reality... If the U.S. wants to stick its nose into others' business too often, others will want to peek into our tent too. Sometimes, as in WWII, foreign intervention on the part of our country is necessary, but I think it's gone too far lately. I'd like to see our country reach out to at least the conservative parties in Europe like the CDU/CSU in Germany and the UMP in France. For the last few years, U.S. politicians have been bashing 'em all as "ungrateful" or as "socialists" -- with no recognition of the political spectrum that exists in Europe. Granted, the Socialist parties in Europe are pretty leftist, anti-business, and anti-nuclear. These guys do not represent the entirety of European public opinion. There are plenty of business-friendly politicians in Europe who would happily work with the U.S. if we stopped the Europe-bashing. However, the United States must acknowledge that hardly *any* Europeans, even on the Right, supported the Iraq war. ======== Context: I support French conservative Nicolas Sarkozy because he is a potential friend to Europe as well as the U.S., he supports of the French nuclear energy program, and because he's "tough on crime." The other French candidates including Socialist Segolene Royal and Rightist J.M. LePen are basically a joke because they're too extreme on the Left (Segolene Royal) or on the Right (J.M. LePen). ~Ruth http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/ --- "Syd H. Levine" wrote: > Somebody needs to stick their nose into a few folks' > business. Are we proud > we exercised restraint and allowed millions to be > murdered by the Nazis > before we decided to mind their business? What > about Pol Pot; we sat idly > by while millions were murdered because after > Vietnam, it certainly was not > politically expedient to get involved in that part > of the world. Pol Pot > appears to be second only to Hitler in the > extermination of innocents. I > suspect that someday, our involvement in the middle > east right now may be > viewed in a different light, whatever our ungrateful > European friends may > presently think. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandy Perle" > To: "'Steven Dapra'" ; > > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 4:01 PM > Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at > large > > > Steven, > > Thank you for your references. > > I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we > need to "quit sticking our > national nose into everyone else's business." Our > government has done that > way too often, attempting to instill our way of life > on others, who will > never do so. ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news From edaxon at satx.rr.com Sun Mar 4 20:26:39 2007 From: edaxon at satx.rr.com (Eric D) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 20:26:39 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <000001c75e8d$5f7a2ab0$49197254@pc1> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> <000001c75e8d$5f7a2ab0$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <002501c75ecd$b5200670$0b00a8c0@D8RSR871> Franz, I enjoy your perspective. The same argument is going on in the US. Is the tradeoff between personal privacy and reduction in terrorist threat worth it? Many in the US agree with your opinion. Respectfully, I do not. My wife agrees with you by the way. Here is my perspective. First, at this point the x-ray screening is done when the walk-through alarms. At this point the passenger is asked if they want a pat-down or to use the x-ray. This may change. Second, I believe the threat is real. I base this upon 9/11 and the recent publicized, defeated attempts to bomb planes with US passengers. I can only assume that others were stopped that are not read about and others were deterred because of the difficulty. The terrorist organization responsible for 9/11 has been at war with the US since the mid 80's. Third, in my opinion, this new technology is worth it from a privacy and ALARA perspective. I believe this because the evidence in my opinion still points to terrorists trying new methods to defeat our screening systems to bomb planes with US citizens aboard. This system is meant to fill a gap. Good thing about living in democratic societies, as most do, we can vote the "buggers" out of office who do not agree with us. I am interested in your perspective on the probability of terrorist threats. If you Email me directly. I would appreciate it. Eric Daxon -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Franz Sch?nhofer Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 12:46 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE RADSAFErs, What has been during the last days and partly during the last weeks distributed on RADSAFE is not only unbelievable to a European with ties all over the world, but it is unacceptable to any person trying to promote international understanding, like I do and what in my opinion one of the not openly promoted goals of RADSAFE should be. I do not explicitely refer to the Nazi speak, which obviously continues, but I have recently several times stated that this list is an international one, but obviously some US hardliners still regard it as "their own", which can be clearly observed by the fact that postings, not fitting to their preconceived opinion are flamed. Therefore I am extremely grateful that (unfortunately only a few) scientists have found clear words against this fearmongering about hypothetical terrorist attacks which allows one country to treat airline passengers by the tens or hundreds of thousands or even millions like potential criminals and finally now "forcing" them to pose naked at check-in. ALARA is in this context a rather small point compared with the intrusion of the private sphere. We have had at RADSAFE during many years a large amount of contributions dealing with the extremely low probability of harm by DU, other discharges etc. I accept them all without any restriction. But then I may be allowed to ask about the probability of becoming a victim at an aeroplane, which has not checked passengers "parading" naked before boarding. ALARA means "as low as reasonably achievable" - many have obviously forgotten this meaning. Reasonably achievable is to prohibit any radiation application which does not pose any reasonable advantage - and the airport X-ray screening is in this category. Best regards, Franz (for all except Mr. Perle) Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jk5554 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 4 21:06:07 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 19:06:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <002501c75ecd$b5200670$0b00a8c0@D8RSR871> Message-ID: <581557.35151.qm@web32504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I believe the 50 microrems or whatever it is from the x-ray screening is truly insignificant, especially when compared to normal variations in natural background. If I were that concerned about ALARA, I'd rush out of my mountain home to live in New Orleans - - until hurricane season! :-) ALARA should be interpreted *reasonably* using natural background variations for comparison. There is a difference of several tens of millirem/y between Denver and New Orleans or between Innsbruck and Hamburg because of terrain (granitic rock) and altitude. I am somewhat concerned about the privacy implications of the use of the x-ray because it "sees under clothes." However, I would much rather have the x-ray screening than a pat-down because the pat-down is more invasive and involves physical contact between screener and passenger. In my last message I expressed my opinion that U.S. intervention in Iraq has gone too far. However, I believe that there is definitely a threat from terrorism that is exacerbated by religious extremism, coupled with lack of economic opportunities in some parts of the Muslim world (cf. Sudan). The large oil revenues that have flowed from the U.S. and Europe to countries like Saudi Arabia have helped to fund Waha'abism, which is the strict branch of Islam of which some extremist sects have branched off to espouse jihad. Anything the West can do to secure energy independence will help it in the fight against terrorism. I mentioned Nicolas Sarkozy in my last email. I like his policies because he both supports France's nuclear energy program (as opposed to fossil fuel imports) and because he would be strict on illegal immigration into France (largely from Muslim countries). I believe that a policy of energy independence and control of one's own borders on the part of Europe and the United States is far more effective against terrorism than military aggression. That being said, there are times when measures like the "x-ray that sees under clothes" are necessary. ~Ruth --- Eric D wrote: > Franz, > > I enjoy your perspective. The same argument is > going on in the US. Is the > tradeoff between personal privacy and reduction in > terrorist threat worth > it? Many in the US agree with your opinion. > Respectfully, I do not. My > wife agrees with you by the way. > > Here is my perspective. First, at this point the > x-ray screening is done > when the walk-through alarms. At this point the > passenger is asked if they > want a pat-down or to use the x-ray. This may > change. >> .... Franz Schoenhofer wrote: > ALARA means "as low as reasonably achievable" - many > have obviously > forgotten this meaning. Reasonably achievable is to > prohibit any radiation > application which does not pose any reasonable > advantage - and the airport > X-ray screening is in this category. > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 21:30:48 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 20:30:48 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <000001c75eb7$35e1e010$b8a290c6@LAPTOP2> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304181828.009fb690@mail.swcp.com> March 4 Since the inception of Homeland Security/TSA I have read many stories in the popular press about their heavy-handed and tyrannical behavior, their bullying of passengers, pawing the heads of six-year-old girls (feeling for shoe bombs I suppose), and so forth. The aged and wheel-chair-bound mother-in-law of a personal friend of mine has been forced to partially undress by HS/TSA "inspectors" (or whatever sanitized label someone wants to use) before she is allowed on an airplane. I read a report of a passenger with metal in his body from surgical repairs who took x-rays with him to the airport and tried to show the "inspectors" the x-rays. The "inspectors" REFUSED to look at them. It's a long list of bad behavior. Shawn Hughes (SH) (see his complete message below) wrote: "Those of you that think 'leaving them alone abroad' or similar pap are very, very ignorant of the past 100 years of terrorism." This is false. I am not thinking "pap" and I am not "very, very ignorant" of 100 years of terrorism. (SH:) "Remaining silent and impartial about events in SouthWest Asia makes as much sense as the US staying out of WWII." You appear to be "very, very ignorant" of events leading up to US entry into WWII. Even establishment historians agree that the Roosevelt administration diligently tried to induce the Third Reich to attack the United States. They also acknowledge that FDR hounded and badgered Japan, behavior that led to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt's foreign policy got the US into World War II. SW Asia is well outside of our sphere of interest, plus our meddling is the cause of many of the "events" there. Since you are so hot to meddle, did you remain "silent and impartial" when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1979? The reason this "slowly coalescing group of people" wants to kill us is because we keep sticking our national nose in their business. If we go around sticking our nose in their business long enough we are going to get punched it that nose, and that is what happened on September 11. (Try reading Pape's book like I suggested.) Ireland and Botswana (and all other nations) are best qualified to solve their internal problems. We can't even stop drunk drivers, child molesters, and drug dealers in the US of A. What business do we have telling anyone else what to do? I don't think there is any "lack of interest in security on this forum" (i.e. RADSAFE). There are some differences about how to provide security, as well as some differences about the underlying reasons for our current predicament with airplane hijackers, explosive-laden human bombers, and suicide truck bombers. I reiterate emphatically that minding everyone's business but our own is guaranteed to get us more of the same. I'll go further and say people who believe in night stick, Taser, and gun barrel security are getting, (or already have) a case of tunnel vision that says security consists of bully-ragging people, ignoring their x-rays, threatening them, or dragging them off in handcuffs. A lot of this so-called security consists of shoving people around, and of treating the symptoms instead of the disease. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com Shawn Hughes wrote: As a person peripherially in the Homeland Security Field, I have tried to stay clear of this discussion. I find it interesting that many of the professionals on this board grow quickly incensed when others outside of their profession start offering opinons on their field. Yet, many of you are doing the exact same thing right now to security professionals. In fact, to some of you we are no more than 'goons'. Are we goons when we find things capable of taking YOUR flight out of the sky? Are we goons when we develop new technology, maybe not THE answer, but at least showing we are making an effort to do something? Those of you that think "leaving them alone abroad" or similar pap are very, very ignorant of the past 100 years of terrorism. So that you can't say noone knowledgeable told you, there is a slowly coalescing group of people who want to kill you (yes, *you* ) based on no more than where your passport was issued. Remaining silent and impartial about events in SouthWest Asia makes as much sense as the US staying out of WWII. I realize this is a worldwide list. I assume by the responses there are few radiation professionals in Ireland and Botswana, because those people would tell you volumes about sticking your head in the sand as long as terrorism isn't affecting you on a personal level. I am disappointed by the lack of interest in security on this forum. All of you should understand, painfully, what happens when you have weak security and someone takes advantage of it. I'll return to lurking, because occasionally there is data here important to what I do. I remain, -Shawn +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Shawn R. Hughes Special Projects Consultant near Oak Ridge, Tennessee [suppressed] telephone srh at esper.com primary email [suppressed] fledgling webpage WARNING AND NOTICE: This email may contain privileged information. If it is not addressed to you by me, you do not have the right to read or use it. If you do not get a prompt reply to your email from me, it is because I have set filtering very high due to the age of my account. Please try an alternate form of messaging. UNCLASSIFIED END TEXT From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 20:25:26 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 19:25:26 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <0A3DA9AAD84543D380A3A82277A10F73@JohnPC> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304191824.009f1550@mail.swcp.com> March 4 John: Thank you for posting these links. I was looking for descriptions of day-to-day activity on the ALARA front, such as how industry, hospitals, and commercial users cope with regulators. I am sure accounts of the public perception of regulators, regulations, and rad users would also be welcome to all. Steven At 03:56 PM 3/4/07 -0800, John R Johnson wrote: >Steven > >The best place to find ALARA requirements in Canada is in G-129 Revision >1, 2004. It can be found at >http://www.nuclearsafety.gc.ca/pubs_catalogue/uploads/G129rev1_e.pdf > >I looked in an old Worksafe BC requirement (from when they were called the >WCB) called Part 7 that I have on my computer but could not find a >reference to ALARA. My information was taken >from >http://www2.worksafebc.com/Publications/OHSRegulation/GuidelinePart7.asp#SectionNumber:G7.20(1)1 > > >Guidelines Part 7 - Division 3 - Radiation Exposure; downloaded on 03/02/06. > >I think that ALARA has been commonly considered in Canada, even when it >was call ALAP, but did find that this was the case in the US when I worked >there from 1988 to 1999. > >John > >John R Johnson >CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >Vancouver, B. C. >Canada >(604) 222-9840 >idias at interchange.ubc.ca [edit] From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 21:11:36 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 20:11:36 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5BC@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304192538.009ed130@mail.swcp.com> March 4 Are we proud we exercised restraint and allowed tens of millions to be killed by Communism in the USSR and Red China? No. Instead Roosevelt fawned and simpered over Stalin and FDR shoved through diplomatic relations with "Uncle Joe." Stalin's mass homicides and his show trials in the 1930s didn't interfere with FDR's love affair with Stalin, nor did they interfere with the same love affair of domestic left-wing extremists (who were so violently anti-fascist). In order of death toll, Mao Tse-tung was worst, followed by Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, and (probably) Pol Pot. Funny isn't it, how we continue to maintain diplomatic relations withour "ungrateful European friends." Steven Dapra At 06:58 PM 3/4/07 -0500, Syd H. Levine wrote: >Somebody needs to stick their nose into a few folks' business. Are we >proud we exercised restraint and allowed millions to be murdered by the >Nazis before we decided to mind their business? What about Pol Pot; we >sat idly by while millions were murdered because after Vietnam, it >certainly was not politically expedient to get involved in that part of >the world. Pol Pot appears to be second only to Hitler in the >extermination of innocents. I suspect that someday, our involvement in >the middle east right now may be viewed in a different light, whatever our >ungrateful European friends may presently think. > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Perle" >To: "'Steven Dapra'" ; >Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 4:01 PM >Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large > > >Steven, > >Thank you for your references. > >I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we need to "quit sticking our >national nose into everyone else's business." Our government has done that >way too often, attempting to instill our way of life on others, who will >never do so. Cultures are different, history is different, and it's time our >elected politicians follow the will of the people instead of trying to make >a name for themselves, or, providing the very lobbyists and financial >supporters who helped get them into office, wealthy and more powerful. [edit] From Pete_Bailey at fpl.com Mon Mar 5 07:51:50 2007 From: Pete_Bailey at fpl.com (Pete_Bailey at fpl.com) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:51:50 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Airport X-rays.... Message-ID: > Let's continue to > develop and implement new > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > never get there. There > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Ya know, the above phrase like the "anti-nukes" push against nuclear power . . . Spend lots of resources reducing an ever decreasing risk.... Oh, as for "I have no problem paying a little more on every ticket I purchase." With all due respects,,,"you" purchase or "the company you work for purchases"? you don't need to answer.... As a 'common consumer' , the gradual increase in cost of everything is narrowing my world of non-essential spending.... OK, gots to get back to Rad stuff.... From mborisky at arl.army.mil Mon Mar 5 08:13:37 2007 From: mborisky at arl.army.mil (Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:13:37 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> References: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Franz, I request once again that you "knock it off". You are in my opinion the only person on this list serve that makes inappropriate postings and creates problems. You seem to thrive on and enjoy conflict, and you use subtle and obvious techniques to generate it. Seems you are constantly looking for opportunities to make postings with obvious or subtle anti-US sentiments. I can assure you there are other quiet RADSAF members besides me that recognize your strategies and motives and don't appreciate it. I would recommend that you eliminate your kind sign offs with any reference to "kind regards" or "respect" as I, and venture to say others, see them as completely disingenuous. "Be nice" or please take your conflict elsewhere. And please leave Sandy and everyone else alone and don't instigate them into your arena of conflict and negativity. I am actually surprised that the moderator allows you to continue posting. Mike Borisky Army Research Lab -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Franz Sch?nhofer Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:55 PM To: 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental) Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Since I got tired of the subject I have not reacted to any message on that subject since a long time, but what I yesterday read in the discussion between John and Mr. Perle motivated me to plan to react tomorrow, because what is distributed by Mr. Perle is just hairraising. But his two last messages are so unacceptable that I write this comment now. All attempts to intimitate me and ridicule me are in vain, because such a character like Mr. Perle cannot insult me. John, you know that I always have esteemed your contributions I understand (I do not understand questions of epidemiology and similar ones). Now I have to congratulate you, because until now you are obviously the only US-citizen on RADSAFE to speak out clearly against this paranoid "safety thinking", which seems to be only used to intimitade people, subject them to humiliation (been shown naked on screens) and to undermine the human rights and of course to raise the profit of quite a few companies claiming that they manufacture instruments and devices for "safety". I know more than well, that these are not only my thoughts, but these are the thoughts of many million US-citizens and influential groups. Practically all of my US-friends and collegues are among them. So much now, but the main reason that I have not waited until tomorrow, is, that Mr. Perle used the expression "sub-human" before and even insisted on these words in his latest contribution. This is clearly Nazi-Speak - in German "Untermenschen", a label given by Nazi-Germany to non-arian people like all Slavs, including Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Czech, Slovenians, Serbs, Montenegrinians etc. etc., the Romas (gypsies), Arabs and especially Jews. (It is intersting that the Romas are genuine Arians.) I do not expect that Mr. Perle has ever been to Auschwitz or Majdanek or any of the other Nazi-extinction camps, where "sub-humans" were killed daily by the thousands or rather tens of thousands like insects by using hydrogen cyanide. I have been there and therefore I am more than allergic for such words. Now I ask whether RADSAFE is the right place to use Nazi-speak. Another US citizen has been banned many years ago from the list, because he was calling an international organisation for "Gestapo". It seems that this expression throws a light on Mr. Perles character. More light I'll shed on him and his queer opinions tomorrow (like "he" wants to be safe on flights and therefore everybody else has to undergo humiliating procedures, not raising at all safety and security). It is half past midnight and again I will go to sleep. The most recent attempt to insult me by Mr. Perle on 15 Feb. is ridiculous: I will not take an aspirin, because I take it everyday in the morning according to my doctors advice. I do not take something called "Luvox". I do not even know what it is, but this only confirms that Mr. Perle is of the opinion that everybody in this world should know US-brandnames and in a broader view succumb to any US interest and request. Since I might concede that Mr. Perle might be aware, that an Austrian does not know "Luvox" I take the alternative conclusion that he was writing this for the US-market of his company. Again, John, my deepest respect. Mr. Perle, please never adress me personally again. Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Sandy Perle Gesendet: Freitag, 02. M?rz 2007 23:18 An: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE From frantaj at aecl.ca Mon Mar 5 09:30:20 2007 From: frantaj at aecl.ca (Franta, Jaroslav) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:30:20 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] radiation fear strikes again ? Message-ID: <0F8BD87EE693D411A1A500508BAC86F70B4F5B27@sps13.aecl.ca> Pluto Team Practices at Jupiter Aviation Week & Space Technology, 03/05/2007, page 31 Frank Morring, Jr., Columbia, Md. Lessons from last week's encounter are already being applied as the 1,000-lb. nuclear-powered spacecraft hurtles down Jupiter's magnetotail, the leeward stream of charged solar-wind particles escaping the planet's magnetic field. Minutes after contollers at The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) here confirmed that New Horizons had passed its closest approach to the planet Feb. 28 without apparent radiation damage, they began resetting the automatic-safeing parameters on one instrument to higher radiation levels. The ultraviolet imaging spectrometer--Alice--kicked off needlessly during the approach to the planet, costing star-occultation data on the atmospheres of some of Jupiter's moons. "We should never have trip wires and set points for safety lower than they need to be," says New Horizons Principal Investigator Alan Stern. "We sort of stubbed our toe by not thinking it through well enough." http://www.aviationweek.com/media/images/awst_images/large/AW_03_05_2007_104 6_L.jpg Closeup of Jupiter's "Little Red Spot" from the New Horizons spacecraft, which used a Feb. 28 flyby to practice for its 2015 encounter with Pluto.Credit: NASA/APL/SwRI CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVILEGED INFORMATION NOTICE This e-mail, and any attachments, may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright, or exempt from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, disclosure, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or reliance on this information may be unlawful and is strictly prohibited. AVIS D'INFORMATION CONFIDENTIELLE ET PRIVIL?GI?E Le pr?sent courriel, et toute pi?ce jointe, peut contenir de l'information qui est confidentielle, r?gie par les droits d'auteur, ou interdite de divulgation. Tout examen, divulgation, retransmission, diffusion ou autres utilisations non autoris?es de l'information ou d?pendance non autoris?e envers celle-ci peut ?tre ill?gale et est strictement interdite. From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 09:39:57 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 07:39:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <719258.1767.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Louis, You are correct. I should have said that "this new wave of terrorism will pass and be replace by another." At the beginnning of the 20th century, Anarchism was the new terrorism. It will be replaced by a new one. One can even argue that the treat of nuclear warfare was a form of terrorism, which is why it was called MAD. http://www.state.de.us/cjc/terrorism/history.shtml --- LNMolino at aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/3/2007 8:40:32 P.M. Central > Standard Time, > crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: > > In time, this terrorism with pass, > > > Please tell me you're not serious? "this terrorism" > will likely be with us > for millenniums as it has in other parts of the > world. We are in a world where > one can get from any point on the planet to another > point in mere hours if > not days. The spread of the threat is very real and > will not just be gone and > it IS a RAD issue as some would seek to take the > power of the atom to do evil > deeds with and they would not hesitates in dying to > do so hence WE should be > concerned about it. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire > Protection Consultant > LNMolino at aol.com > > 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) > 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) > 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) > > "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" > > "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss > events; Small minds > discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & > reformer (1884 - 1962) > > The comments contained in this E-mail are the > opinions of the author and the > author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for > any person or > organization that I am in any way whatsoever > involved or associated with unless I > specifically state that I am doing so. Further this > E-mail is intended only for its > stated recipient and may contain private and or > confidential materials > retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed > in the public domain by the > original author. +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 09:59:27 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:59:27 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power Message-ID: <45EBCDDF.29309.33F573@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power Aussies embrace nuclear power: poll Switkowski appointment shows Govt's nuclear plans: Greenpeace 'Dirty bomb' danger very real Report: Nuclear workers radiation claims panel beset by conflicts China signs agreement on nuclear island purchase Shanghai NTPC board approves foray into nuclear power Vilnius signs nuclear plant agreement with Warsaw ---------------------------------------------------------- EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power BRUSSELS -(Dow Jones) Mar 5 - Concerns about possible accidents and radioactive waste have pushed 61% of European Union citizens to say they want the bloc to use less nuclear power, an E.U. survey showed Monday. At the same time, a majority of survey respondents said they were concerned about climate change, which they attribute to the consumption of fossil fuels. Nuclear power is a contentious issue in Europe. While E.U. officials acknowledge it is one of the cheapest sources of low carbon energy, they are unwilling to push for more reactors. Finland and France are unabashedly pro-nuclear and building new reactors. Other countries, such as Austria and Germany, oppose nuclear energy. Instead of turning to nuclear power, E.U. officials are pushing fuel sources such as wind turbines and solar panels. Clean coal technology is also slated to be installed in the E.U. by 2020. ---------------- Aussies embrace nuclear power: poll (Daily Telegraph) Mar 6 - CONCERNS about climate change have swung Australian opinion in favour of nuclear power for the first time, a poll shows. A Newspoll published in today's The Australian newspaper reveals support for nuclear power has surged 10 percentage points to 45 per cent in four months, outstripping opposition, which has plummeted 10 points to 40 per cent. But a vast majority - 66 per cent - are against having a nuclear power station in their local area. The key to the shift appears to have been Prime Minister John Howard's repeatedly linking nuclear power to strategies for the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, the newspaper reports. The survey asked whether respondents supported the development of nuclear power industry in Australia as one of a range of energy solutions to help reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and whether they would personally be in favour or against a nuclear power station being built in your local area. ---------------- Switkowski appointment shows Govt's nuclear plans: Greenpeace Greenpeace says the appointment of Ziggy Switkowski as the chairman of the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation (ANSTO) confirms that the Federal Government plans to introduce nuclear power. Dr Switkowski was appointed to the board of ANSTO last year, but stood aside after he became the head of the Prime Minister's inquiry into the viability of nuclear energy. Dr Switkowski told ABC radio today ANSTO is well advanced in research into all aspects of the nuclear cycle. Greenpeace's energy adviser Paul Cleary says that backs up his assessment. "It's essentially the only place of nuclear expertise in Australia," he said. "It claims that it is only there to produce medical isotopes, but in fact ANSTO is actually doing a lot more than that. "It's already producing the silex technology which can basically be used for making backyard weapons if it falls into the wrong hands." Dr Switkowski says the introduction of nuclear power will be not be integral to his role at ANSTO. "There's no doubt that coming out of the nuclear review that one does form opinions about the applicability of nuclear power in Australia's strategic thinking," he said. "Particularly in a future where greenhouse gas abatement is going to be a bit of a priority. "But that doesn't translate into an agenda, and my personal goal will be to facilitate informed debate." ---------------- 'Dirty bomb' danger very real (South Bend Tribune) OUR OPINION Mar 5 - Radioactive "dirty bombs" are nightmares that haven't come true. But they could. The raw material to make dirty bombs is abundant. The price is right. And, disturbingly, not nearly enough is being done to keep potential bomb components out of the hands of terrorists. We hope that with increased awareness that will change. A story in the Feb. 15 Chicago Tribune by foreign correspondent Alex Rodriguez explained the threat in chilling detail. Dirty bombs use conventional explosives, such as dynamite, to spread radioactive material over a small area, perhaps several city blocks. Where would the radioactive material come from? It exists throughout the former Soviet Union republics in abundance, most often in forms not intended for use in weapons. Obtaining it can be as easy as picking it up and walking away with it. Radioactive substances often are kept in unsecured places. Much has been accomplished in the continuing effort to dismantle nuclear weapons in the former Soviet republics. Credit is due Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and former Sen. Sam Nunn, D-Ga., for the Cooperative Threat Reduction Act. It has led to the elimination of more than 6,000 nuclear warheads. Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan are nuclear weapon-free because of the effort. The dirty bomb threat is a different problem -- but one that needs to be approached with the same determination. According to the Chicago Tribune report, from 1993 to 2004 there were 662 confirmed cases of radioactive materials smuggling worldwide, more than 400 of them involving materials suitable for use in dirty bombs. And those are just the ones officials know about. The materials of concern usually are plutonium and uranium waste, strontium-90 and cesium-137. Where are they found? In Russia alone, according to the report, strontium-90 powers more than 600 radioisotope thermoelectric generators, or RTGs. There are RTGs in dozens of lighthouses situated along the Barent Sea -- many of them not protected by so much as a chainlink fence. Each RTG contains enough strontium-90 to make about 40 dirty bombs. The nation of Kazakhstan has used more than $20 million provided by the United States to seal up tunnels in which Soviet nuclear weapons tests once were conducted. The concrete seals haven't kept out scrap metal hunters who use homemade explosives to enter the tunnels. Inside, along with iron, are huge quantities of cesium, plutonium, uranium and strontium waste from 458 Cold War-era nuclear tests. Then, the Chicago Tribune report continues, there are the canisters of cesium-137 that frequently are found at abandoned former Soviet military bases in Georgia. And let's not forget the physics institute in Abkhazia, with its storehouse of plutonium, uranium and other radioactive substances. It fell into the hands of Abkhaz separatists when they drove the Georgian military out during a 1992 civil war. Georgian authorities don't know what has become of the deadly substances. So far, the United States has spent $178 million to provide radiation detection equipment to other countries -- many of them the former Soviet republics. The aim is to prevent smuggling. The republics' governments, by and large, are cooperative with efforts to remove, secure or intercept dangerous materials. But in environments of poverty and corruption, the problem is far from solved. Meanwhile, here at home, the Government Accountability Office predicts that the Department of Homeland Security will miss by about five years its 2009 deadline to install 3,000 radiation detection units at key U.S. entry points. The dirty bomb threat ought to be a very high priority for the United States and our allies. The goals -- to help other countries clean up radioactive materials, and to keep them out of this country -- are clear. Dirty bombs are a real, low-tech, highly dangerous threat. Detection equipment at entry points, and a trained, well-equipped reaction force, should be a high priority. We urge our congressional delegation to support legislation to make it so. ---------------- Report: Nuclear workers radiation claims panel beset by conflicts Feb 26 - A government watchdog says a panel set up to review payments to ailing nuclear weapons workers lacks credibility and is beset by conflicts of interest. That's what the head of the Nuclear Oversight Program for the Government Accountability Project is telling the Las Vegas Review- Journal. He says panelists on the Advisory Board on Radiation and Worker Health have too many ties to past employers and associates at the Energy Department. A proposal by Democratic Senator Harry Reid could correct some problems by giving claimants so-called "Special Cohort Status" and lowering their burden of proof to collect payments. Reid introduced a bill this month to expand coverage to everyone who worked at the Nevada Test Site between 1951 and 1993 -- regardless of how many days or hours they were there. -------------- China signs agreement on nuclear island purchase Shanghai March 5. INTERFAX-CHINA - China's State Nuclear Power Technology Corporation signed an agreement with Westinghouse on the purchase of nuclear island technology, the official Xinhua news agency reported. The two parties reached consensus on the construction period, equipment to be supplied and price. As a result, Westinghouse's AP1000 reactors will likely be applied in two new nuclear power plants in Sanmen of Zhejiang Province and Haiyang of Shandong Province. China started bidding for the third-generation of nuclear power technology since 2003, and China and the US signed an MOU last December on the transfer of pressure water reactor technology. The two companies estimate that an official contract will be signed before the end of this May. --------------- NTPC board approves foray into nuclear power MUMBAI: (Hindu Business) Mar 5 NTPC Ltd, the country's largest power utility, on Monday said its board of directors has approved a proposal to enable the company to foray into the nuclear power generation business. The board has given its clearance to the amendment of the object clause of the memorandum of association, NTPC informed the Bombay Stock Exchange. The company's shareholders would consider the proposal at a later date, it said. NTPC envisages generating 2,000 MW from atomic power by the end of 2017. At present, state-run Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd is the only company in the sector. The state-owned company has also appointed former Atomic Energy Commission secretary Mr S Rajgopal and former executive director of NPCIL Mr V K Kaushik as consultants to prepare a strategy for its proposed foray. India has an installed nuclear power capacity of about 3,200 MW, less than three per cent of the total generation capacity. The Government plans to add fresh capacity of 3,100 MW nuclear energy by the end of the 11th plan (2011-12), which will be further increased during the 12th plan. - PTI ----------------- Vilnius signs nuclear plant agreement with Warsaw (Baltic Times) Mar 5 - The prime ministers of Lithuania and Poland have signed a political agreement on the building of new nuclear reactors in Lithuania. The government leaders, Gediminas Kirkilas and Jaroslaw Kaczynski, also agreed to explore the possibilities of connecting their gas transportation grids, and urged Germany to develop a uniform European Union energy policy. The agreement highlights the significance of cooperation between Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia to build a new nuclear plant, which will now also involve the Polish power company Polskie Sieci Elektroenergetyczne (PSE). Lithuania and Poland also confirmed their intentions to speed up the building of bilateral power bridge and invited Estonia's and Latvia's energy companies to join the project. Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 10:24:18 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:24:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <005701c75e2c$c8196d30$0200a8c0@Shop> Message-ID: <341167.18767.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Syd, The nature of terrorism requires the taking of innocent lives. I am sure that you heard that the terrorist of Sept 11 were indoctrinated into accepting that any American was their enemy. But why did they believe so? Can we change their attitudes to us? Can we change our attitudes toward that part of the world? During WWII it was the policies of the Allies to destroy industries and cities where workers lived to instill fear in the civilians. Were the children killed innocent? By Nuremberg, I assume that you are referring to the Nuremberg Code. The basis was racism and eugenics, which was not only practices by the Nazises, but the Japanses and in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics --- "Syd H. Levine" wrote: > John: > > You wanted to know what I meant in my earlier email > (which email did not > reach the list since I was on a different account), > well you just stated it > succinctly. > > "Maybe if we understood their motivation, we could > prevent future acts of > terrorism." > > Can you understand the killing of innocents no > matter how oppressed the > offenders argue they may be? I hope you cannot. > Subhuman is a figure of > speech of course, but if anything is subhuman > behavior, it is terrorism. > Would you have argued we needed to understand > motivation at Nuremburg? > > Syd H. Levine > AnaLog Services, Inc. > Phone: 270-276-5671 > Telefax: 270-276-5588 > E-mail: analog at logwell.com > URL: www.logwell.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Jacobus" > To: ; > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 10:51 PM > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > > > Sandy, > > The terrorists of Sept 11 were murderers, but they > > were not sub-human. They were educated, and were > > human like us. I do not know if they had souls, > but > > apparently you do. > > > > I certainly do not condone their actions, but as > an > > American, I can certainly question what you say, > and > > what our country/government does. Flammatory > retoric > > may impress some people, but distracts from the > real > > issue of why they did what they did. Maybe if we > > understood their motivation, we could prevent > future > > acts of terrorism. > > > > You certainly not the sole decider of what is > posted > > on this list server. While you cannot accept the > fact > > that others may disagree with you, some of us do. > > > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > >> John, > >> > >> Your comment regarding the 9/11 murders, > questioning > >> an American who believes that this type of a > person, > >> not a Nationality or condemnation of a group, but > a > >> statement of fact that any individual who can > murder > >> thousands of innocent individuals, is simply > >> amazing. Your comment is akin to blaming society > for > >> this murderous act. Instead of making statements > >> that imply acceptance of this despicable act, as > >> well as every suicide attack, wherever it occurs, > >> you should condem them, and accept the fact that > >> anyone who can do this in the name of whatever > God > >> they think condones their mass murder, that they > are > >> sub-human, without a soul, period. > >> > >> > >> Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: John Jacobus > >> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:26:51 > >> To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl > >> Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > >> Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > >> > >> Well, I guess that proves what they think about > >> Americans. Arrogant, self-centered, etc. > >> > >> --- Sandy Perle wrote: > >> > >> > John, > >> > > >> > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 > were > >> > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. > >> > > >> > Sandy > >> > > >> > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > >> > > >> > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > > "We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or > > omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the > world's population; that we > > cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent > of mankind; that we > > cannot right every wrong or reverse each > adversity; and therefore there > > cannot be an American solution to every world > problem." > > -- John F. Kennedy > > > > -- John > > John Jacobus, MS > > Certified Health Physicist > > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > > > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 > > _______________________________________________ > > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe > mailing list > > > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to > have read and understood > > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings > > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 10:41:59 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:41:59 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Salazar reintroduces bill to compensate ex-Rocky Flat workers Message-ID: <45EBD7D7.23322.5AEA5A@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: *Salazar reintroduces bill to compensate ex-Rocky Flat workers *China close to deal on French reactors *Agencies To Conduct Briefing on Radiological Exercise *TXU makes commitments, and environmentalists regard them warily *India's plan to sell low-cost N-reactors ------------------------------------ Salazar reintroduces bill to compensate ex-Rocky Flat workers DENVER (AP) Mar 5 - Sen. Ken Salazar, D-Colo., reintroduced a bill Thursday that would give benefits to Rocky Flats employees who became ill after working at the former nuclear weapons plant. About 10,000 people who worked at the former nuclear weapons plant between Denver and Boulder want to be classified under a program that makes workers at a Department of Energy site immediately and automatically eligible for medical coverage and compensation. Workers wouldn't have to file individual health claims. A similar bill covering Rocky Flats worker co-sponsored by Sen. Wayne Allard, R-Colo., died in the Senate in 2005. For the past two years, the employees have been seeking a designation that would make them eligible for benefits if they suffer from a cancer linked to exposure to radiation. Salazar said that the employees are victims of inadequate or missing records and bureaucratic red tape. "Across five decades, the patriotic men and women of Rocky Flats served their country producing plutonium, one of the most dangerous substances in the world, and crafting it into the triggers for America's nuclear arsenal," Salazar said. Rep. Mark Udall, D-Colo., has introduced a similar bill in the House Rep. Ed Perlmutter, D-Colo., is a co-sponsor. In 2002, Congress approved the Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation Program Act to expedite financial and medical benefits for the country's Cold War-era veterans. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health recommended against the petition filed by Rocky Flats workers. The agency said it's feasible to determine in individual cases whether an employee's exposure to radioactive materials can be tied to an illness. The United Steelworkers of America, the union that represented Rocky Flats workers, has said the records can't adequately establish those connections. Rocky Flats made plutonium triggers for nuclear warheads until 1992, when it was shut down because of safety concerns. The $7 billion cleanup of the 6,420-acre site was declared complete last fall. Energy Department officials have said the site is ready for conversion to a national wildlife refuge, expected by 2008. -------------- China close to deal on French reactors Nation turns to atomic energy to cut pollution and reliance on oil BEIJING (Bloomberg): China will award a contract to build two nuclear reactors in southeastern China to Areva of France, a Chinese official said Monday. The two sides are working on a final accord to build the reactors at Yangjiang in Guangdong Province, Qian Jihui, a senior adviser at China National Nuclear, the country's top nuclear reactor builder, said in Beijing. The contract was originally awarded to Toshiba's Westinghouse Electric, which will instead get an agreement for two other reactors in Shandong Province. China needs to add two reactors a year to meet a 2020 target of getting 4 percent of its power from nuclear energy, against about 2.3 percent now. Areva and Westinghouse are competing to build as many as 26 more reactors by 2020 as China turns to atomic energy to cut pollution and reliance on oil. "Awarding the contracts to two companies will give China more room in later negotiations," said Yan Shi, a Shanghai-based analyst with Core Pacific Yamaichi International. The parties will sign a final agreement "very soon," Qian said at the National People's Congress, without giving specific reasons for the decision to award the contract to build the reactors to Areva instead of Westinghouse. Westinghouse originally won a $5.3 billion agreement on Dec. 16 to build reactors at Yangjiang and Sanmen, after outbidding Areva and Russia following almost two years of negotiation and lobbying. President Jacques Chirac of France promoted Areva's bid when he met with his Chinese counterpart, Hu Jintao, during a visit to Beijing in October. China plans to import uranium from Australia, Canada, South Africa and Kazakhstan to fuel its expanding nuclear power capacity, Qian said. China has nine reactors operating in Zhejiang and Guangdong. Six are under construction in Jiangsu in the east and in Guangdong. These projects have a combined capacity of about 12,000 megawatts. Beijing plans to use Russian technology for two reactors at the Tianwan nuclear plant in the eastern coastal province of Jiangsu, Qian said. "China and Russia have a close relationship," he said. "Awarding nuclear reactors could be a deal boosted by political ties." Xu Damao, a senior consultant to the project operator China Guangdong Nuclear Power Holding, said Feb. 13 that the Paris-based Areva might build the Yangjiang reactors, among four originally earmarked for Westinghouse, which instead gets a contract for the two reactors at Haiyang in Shandong. Westinghouse, based in Monroeville, Pennsylvania, will provide technology for reactors at Haiyang and Sanmen, Yu Zhuoping, a senior official at State Nuclear Power Technology, a company designated by the government to hold talks with overseas reactor builders, said last week. China is the third-biggest nuclear energy user in Asia, after Japan and South Korea, according to the 2006 BP Statistical Review of World Energy. ------------------ Agencies To Conduct Briefing on Radiological Exercise Submitted by Oswego County FULTON, NY - Hundreds of emergency workers from county and state agencies and Entergy Nuclear-Northeast will participate Wednesday in an exercise to test on-site and off-site emergency preparedness plans in Oswego County. The exercise will involve a simulated event at the James A. FitzPatrick Nuclear Power Plant in Scriba. Representatives of the Department of Homeland Security Radiological Emergency Preparedness Program (formerly under the Federal Emergency Management Agency) and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) will conduct a public briefing at the Joint Information Center, next to the Oswego County Airport on County Route 176 northeast of Fulton, at 11 a.m. Friday, March 9. The purpose of this briefing is to inform the public of the agencies' preliminary findings in their evaluation of the March 7 exercise. ---------------- TXU makes commitments, and environmentalists regard them warily More wind and nuclear seem to be on the way. Over the past year, Gov. Rick Perry and Dallas utility TXU Corp. hammered at the need for more coal-fired power plants to serve a fast- growing population. Then, suddenly, TXU became the object of a $45 billion takeover deal late last month, and the company suspended plans to build eight of 11 coal-fired power plants to appease some environmental groups. The reduction would prevent the annual release of 56 million tons of carbon dioxide, the same amount released by about 7 million sport- utility vehicles, which contributes to global climate change. But even as the company says it will encourage energy efficiency and buy more wind energy, officials have said they will also try to build nuclear power plants and press forward with some coal-fired power plants. The deal leaves environmental- ists warily trying to figure out where TXU's energy is going to come from and how clean it will be. Environmental groups say the key to meeting the state's energy appetite is not ordering up more power plants but essentially putting the state on a diet. Groups have applauded TXU's new commitment to invest $400 million in energy efficiency programs, such as paying for weatherizing homes and replacing standard incandescent light bulbs with those that use less energy. Along the same lines, environmental groups have said they support rules proposed by state Sen. Kip Averitt, R-Waco, that would make appliances and new buildings more energy-efficient. The company, which says it is already the largest purchaser of wind energy in Texas, has said it would more than double its purchase to 1,500 megawatts, or enough to power about 330,000 homes. But wind makes up only about 2 percent of the company's entire portfolio. Last fall, TXU said it would double its renewable portfolio by 2011, a commitment that is more or less in keeping with statewide goals set by the Legislature. Meanwhile, TXU is not out of the coal-fired power plant business. It still plans to build three: one in Rockdale, about 60 miles northeast of Austin, and two others near Franklin, about 30 miles north of Bryan, which will be known as Oak Grove. The plants will emit close to 22 million tons of carbon dioxide a year. Austin environmental groups say the plants will sully air quality in Central Texas. "While the deal with TXU (to reduce the number of plants) was a great deal for the environment and a stunning victory in the battle over climate change, we're still be heavily threatened by the Oak Grove plant to the north and east of us," said Tom "Smitty" Smith, head of the Texas Office of Public Citizen. "That plant alone could threaten air safety in Austin enough to perhaps push us over federal limits." The eight other coal-fired power plants are not totally off the table. If the buyout deal falls through, TXU could revive them, and environmental groups and the company could resume butting heads. Environmental Defense, for one, a national group that approved of the buyout, said it is unsure whether to pull down its stoptxu.com Web site. Finally, TXU has said it will file paperwork for nuclear plants at one to three sites. Nuclear power plants do not emit the greenhouse gases that contribute to climate change - the top issue for many environmental groups - but activists say nuclear power raises problems of radioactive waste disposal and suffers from historically high capital cost overruns that often are subsidized by the government. "It worries me a great deal that there might be a shift toward emphasis on nuclear power," said Ken Kramer, head of the Lone Star chapter of the Sierra Club. "It's somewhat like a shell game the industry can play by putting out a lot of different ideas, many of them bad, and then pulling back on some of them and hoping others go through." ------------------- India's plan to sell low-cost N-reactors NEW DELHI - India has not only stepped up its diplomacy with the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) countries to allow it to access civil nuclear technology and fuel but may also become a supplier of low- cost nuclear reactors to other countries by joining the NSG. India?s nuclear establishment is riding high after the Kaiga 3 nuclear power reactor in Karnataka, developed by Indian engineers, achieved criticality early this week. The 220 MW pressurised heavy water reactor (PHWR) will start delivering power at the end of this month. Glowing in the success of this venture, Anil Kakodkar, chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission, has said that completing the nuclear power plant, along with low costs, in five years has set an international benchmark. Given the low costs - Rs984 ($22.33) per installed KW - Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL) is now eyeing the export market for nuclear reactors. India is confident of exporting the design to countries like Cambodia, Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam for just Rs1,200 ($27.24) per KW, which is substantially less than the international average of $1,500 per KW, a senior NPCIL official told IANS over the phone from Mumbai. With the lucrative export market for low-cost nuclear reactors in mind and its new international standing driven by its growing economy and a defining civil nuclear deal with the US, India also plans to make a pitch for joining the NSG at an appropriate time, reliable sources told IANS. But before India, a non-signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, actually starts exporting nuclear reactors, it must first win support of the 45-nation NSG that controls global trade in nuclear technology and fuel for the India-US civil nuclear deal. The NSG will, however, take a call on India?s case only after New Delhi and Washington have finalised a bilateral civil nuclear cooperation agreement. The US and Russia have already announced that they would use their clout in the NSG to amend the cartel?s guidelines in favour of nuclear commerce with India. ----------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From joseroze at netvision.net.il Mon Mar 5 10:42:30 2007 From: joseroze at netvision.net.il (Jose Julio Rozental) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:42:30 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] radioactive penalty Message-ID: <00a501c75f45$446859a0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Interesting topic to discuss in a list like this Jose Julio Rozental joseroze at netvision.net.il Israel Video - Radioactive Penalty AEA fined ?250,000 for HSE breach Published: 20 Feb 2006 By: Darshna Soni AEA Technology admitted breaching health and safety and radioactive material regulations and was fined ?250,000. Special video report at http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=1782 More details page 3.4 Regulatory Issues page 8 at http://www.aeat.co.uk/documents/2005-06_SHE_Report.pdf Action by Regulators The Health and Safety Executive and the Department for Transport took AEA Technology to court following their investigation of an incident at Cookridge Hospital, Leeds in March 2002. In the incident, a team from the Safeguard International Business of AEA used an incorrectly assembled transport container to move a large radioactive source. In preparing the container for transport, their radiation monitoring was inadequate and they failed to detect a narrow beam of radiation that was emitted from the base of the container. AEA Technology pleaded guilty to six charges at the Leeds Crown Court in February 2006, and was fined ?250,000 and ordered to pay ?151,000 costs [AEA Technology sold Safeguard International to Coller Capital in October 2005]. From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 10:56:08 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:56:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304095246.009fb9b0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <143698.26401.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Steve, Thanks for the information. I would recommend "Jihad vs. McWorld: How Globalism and Tribalism Are Reshaping the World," (1996). http://www.amazon.com/Jihad-vs-McWorld-Globalism-Tribalism/dp/0345383044/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-3822871-6040738?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173113505&sr=8-2 --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 4 > > May I recommend "Dying to Win The Strategic > Logic of Suicide > Terrorism," by Robert A. Pape (Random House, 2005). > > According to the dust jacket, "Every > suicide terrorist campaign > has had a clear goal that is secular and political: > to compel a modern > democracy to withdraw military forces from the > territory that the > terrorists view as their homeland." > > Pape makes a strong case for this being > true, (and not only among > Islamic terrorists). On p. 243 he notes the > increasing Muslim dislike of > the United States, and on p. 244 says, "The > underlying reason is not > discontent with Western political or economic > values, which are supported > by majorities or near majorities in these [three] > countries. Rather, the > taproot is American military policy. Overwhelming > majorities across a > range of Muslim countries believe that the United > States conquered Iraq to > control its oil or to help Israel rather than to end > terrorism or promote > democracy, and fear that their country might be > next." Pape provides > survey data to support these assertions. > > See also p. 316, fn. 4 for a book Pape > recommends that gives an > "extensive evaluation of the growing resentment of > American policies in > numerous areas around the world." (I have only read > Pape, not the book he > recommends.) > > The solution is not more people snooping > through travelers' > luggage, not more Homeland "Security"/TSA goon > squads, and not more x-ray > scanners operated by higher-paid inspectors. It is > to quit sticking our > national nose into everyone else's business. Don't > we have enough problems > at home to keep us busy? > > Please read Pape's book before you start > flaming me. Thank > you. If you don't have time to read it, please read > five or more of the 38 > reviews on Amazon.com, where it received 4 1/2 > stars. > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 11:04:59 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:04:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site In-Reply-To: <8C92CA729BBC1A2-12AC-AD85@WEBMAIL-MC14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <656788.25415.qm@web54305.mail.yahoo.com> Well, for one thing, Pierre Curie won the Nobel Prize in 1903 not 1905. --- lnmolino at aol.com wrote: > An interesting site but how accurate it is is a > guess on my part. > > http://www.roadtechs.com/rpchron.htm > > -- > Lou Molino, Sr. > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > >From the road some where ;) > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out > more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 11:26:56 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:26:56 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: [QUESTION] EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power In-Reply-To: <45EBCE59.30568.35D55F@sandyfl.cox.net> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5D5@gdses.corp.gds.com> Based on the survey below, several questions are obvious: (1) Other than France and Finland, what is the current capacity of generation power and demand in those countries who are opposed to nuclear generation? (2) If the current demand can not be met, where are they purchasing the additional required electrical generation? (3) How does the above change considering that many of these countries are stating that they will shutdown their nuclear plants over a specific time period? (4) How realistic is a policy that focuses on wind and solar, and not until 2020, to meet the increasing electricity demands? (5) What are the economics for the wind and solar generation compared to nuclear? What will "clean coal fired plants" cost compared to current technology, including nuclear. (6) How will political environment potentially change the above? ----------------------- EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power BRUSSELS -(Dow Jones) Mar 5 - Concerns about possible accidents and radioactive waste have pushed 61% of European Union citizens to say they want the bloc to use less nuclear power, an E.U. survey showed Monday. At the same time, a majority of survey respondents said they were concerned about climate change, which they attribute to the consumption of fossil fuels. Nuclear power is a contentious issue in Europe. While E.U. officials acknowledge it is one of the cheapest sources of low carbon energy, they are unwilling to push for more reactors. Finland and France are unabashedly pro-nuclear and building new reactors. Other countries, such as Austria and Germany, oppose nuclear energy. Instead of turning to nuclear power, E.U. officials are pushing fuel sources such as wind turbines and solar panels. Clean coal technology is also slated to be installed in the E.U. by 2020. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From jmarshall.reber at comcast.net Mon Mar 5 11:39:33 2007 From: jmarshall.reber at comcast.net (J. Marshall Reber) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:39:33 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era Message-ID: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. Throw out your little screwdrivers - - - future instrument adjustment and calibrations will all be done by Windows program interaction. Digitize your thought processes or become out-of-date! All analog circuitry will be done by digital emulation. People replaced by robots - - - where will it end? Oh the humanity, the humanity!!! From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 11:48:53 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:48:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304192538.009ed130@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <223925.87069.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Steve, I don't think there was any "love affair" between FDR and Stalin. After WWI there was a powerful isolationist movement in this country. Our entry into WWII was delayed by the "America First" movement, a member of which was the American hero Charles Lindbergh. http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/americafirst.html Also, there was fear of the rise Communism. And who better to fight the Communist that the Facists? Even before the US entered the European front, we had arrangements with Britain, e.g., Lend-Lease policy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease At the outset of our involvement, Stalin pushed for a second front. Instead the US and Britain push through North Africa, into the Mediterranian. Basically, the Soviet Union breed the Nazis with their own soldiers and citizens until we finally invaded Normandy. --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 4 > > Are we proud we exercised restraint and > allowed tens of millions > to be killed by Communism in the USSR and Red China? > No. Instead > Roosevelt fawned and simpered over Stalin and FDR > shoved through diplomatic > relations with "Uncle Joe." Stalin's mass homicides > and his show trials in > the 1930s didn't interfere with FDR's love affair > with Stalin, nor did they > interfere with the same love affair of domestic > left-wing extremists (who > were so violently anti-fascist). > > In order of death toll, Mao Tse-tung was > worst, followed by > Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, and (probably) Pol Pot. > > Funny isn't it, how we continue to maintain > diplomatic relations > withour "ungrateful European friends." > > Steven Dapra > > > At 06:58 PM 3/4/07 -0500, Syd H. Levine wrote: > >Somebody needs to stick their nose into a few > folks' business. Are we > >proud we exercised restraint and allowed millions > to be murdered by the > >Nazis before we decided to mind their business? > What about Pol Pot; we > >sat idly by while millions were murdered because > after Vietnam, it > >certainly was not politically expedient to get > involved in that part of > >the world. Pol Pot appears to be second only to > Hitler in the > >extermination of innocents. I suspect that > someday, our involvement in > >the middle east right now may be viewed in a > different light, whatever our > >ungrateful European friends may presently think. > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Perle" > > >To: "'Steven Dapra'" ; > > >Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 4:01 PM > >Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world > at large > > > > > >Steven, > > > >Thank you for your references. > > > >I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we > need to "quit sticking our > >national nose into everyone else's business." Our > government has done that > >way too often, attempting to instill our way of > life on others, who will > >never do so. Cultures are different, history is > different, and it's time our > >elected politicians follow the will of the people > instead of trying to make > >a name for themselves, or, providing the very > lobbyists and financial > >supporters who helped get them into office, wealthy > and more powerful. > > [edit] > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From hflong at pacbell.net Mon Mar 5 11:48:53 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:48:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Nuclear technology will overcome opposition. Autos and fire did In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070305174853.1187.qmail@web83506.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I like this positive persistence for nuclear technology. Autos and fire also had strong opposition. Howard Long Pete_Bailey at fpl.com wrote: > Let's continue to > develop and implement new > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > never get there. There > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Ya know, the above phrase like the "anti-nukes" push against nuclear power . . . Spend lots of resources reducing an ever decreasing risk.... Oh, as for "I have no problem paying a little more on every ticket I purchase." With all due respects,,,"you" purchase or "the company you work for purchases"? you don't need to answer.... As a 'common consumer' , the gradual increase in cost of everything is narrowing my world of non-essential spending.... OK, gots to get back to Rad stuff.... _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 11:56:46 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:56:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <425961.49313.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Mike, If you have any problems with Freanz's posting I suggest you correspond with him, or use the delete key. Only the List-owner can refuse to let individuals post on this list server. We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree. --- "Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)" wrote: > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > Franz, > > I request once again that you "knock it off". You > are in my opinion the only person on this list serve > that makes inappropriate postings and creates > problems. You seem to thrive on and enjoy conflict, > and you use subtle and obvious techniques to > generate it. Seems you are constantly looking for > opportunities to make postings with obvious or > subtle anti-US sentiments. I can assure you there > are other quiet RADSAF members besides me that > recognize your strategies and motives and don't > appreciate it. I would recommend that you eliminate > your kind sign offs with any reference to "kind > regards" or "respect" as I, and venture to say > others, see them as completely disingenuous. "Be > nice" or please take your conflict elsewhere. And > please leave Sandy and everyone else alone and don't > instigate them into your arena of conflict and > negativity. I am actually surprised that the > moderator allows you to continue posting. > > Mike Borisky > Army Research Lab > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of > Franz Sch?nhofer > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:55 PM > To: 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. > Rozental (J. J. Rozental) > Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles > Nazi speak > > Since I got tired of the subject I have not reacted > to any message on that subject since a long time, > but what I yesterday read in the discussion between > John and Mr. Perle motivated me to plan to react > tomorrow, because what is distributed by Mr. Perle > is just hairraising. But his two last messages are > so unacceptable that I write this comment now. All > attempts to intimitate me and ridicule me are in > vain, because such a character like Mr. > Perle cannot insult me. John, you know that I always > have esteemed your contributions I understand (I do > not understand questions of epidemiology and similar > ones). Now I have to congratulate you, because until > now you are obviously the only US-citizen on RADSAFE > to speak out clearly against this paranoid "safety > thinking", which seems to be only used to intimitade > people, subject them to humiliation (been shown > naked on screens) and to undermine the human rights > and of course to raise the profit of quite a few > companies claiming that they manufacture instruments > and devices for "safety". I know more than well, > that these are not only my thoughts, but these are > the thoughts of many million US-citizens and > influential groups. > Practically all of my US-friends and collegues are > among them. > > So much now, but the main reason that I have not > waited until tomorrow, is, that Mr. Perle used the > expression "sub-human" before and even insisted on > these words in his latest contribution. This is > clearly Nazi-Speak - in German "Untermenschen", a > label given by Nazi-Germany to non-arian people like > all Slavs, including Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, > Czech, Slovenians, Serbs, Montenegrinians etc. etc., > the Romas (gypsies), Arabs and especially Jews. (It > is intersting that the Romas are genuine Arians.) I > do not expect that Mr. Perle has ever been to > Auschwitz or Majdanek or any of the other > Nazi-extinction camps, where "sub-humans" were > killed daily by the thousands or rather tens of > thousands like insects by using hydrogen cyanide. I > have been there and therefore I am more than > allergic for such words. > > Now I ask whether RADSAFE is the right place to use > Nazi-speak. Another US citizen has been banned many > years ago from the list, because he was calling an > international organisation for "Gestapo". It seems > that this expression throws a light on Mr. Perles > character. More light I'll shed on him and his queer > opinions tomorrow (like "he" wants to be safe on > flights and therefore everybody else has to undergo > humiliating procedures, not raising at all safety > and security). > > It is half past midnight and again I will go to > sleep. The most recent attempt to insult me by Mr. > Perle on 15 Feb. is ridiculous: I will not take an > aspirin, because I take it everyday in the morning > according to my doctors advice. I do not take > something called "Luvox". I do not even know what it > is, but this only confirms that Mr. Perle is of the > opinion that everybody in this world should know > US-brandnames and in a broader view succumb to any > US interest and request. Since I might concede that > Mr. Perle might be aware, that an Austrian does not > know "Luvox" I take the alternative conclusion that > he was writing this for the US-market of his > company. > > Again, John, my deepest respect. Mr. Perle, please > never adress me personally again. > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > MinRat i.R. > Habicherg. 31/7 > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > AUSTRIA > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von > Sandy Perle > Gesendet: Freitag, 02. M?rz 2007 23:18 > An: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another > country? > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our > solution has certainly not changed the risks we > face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers > of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the > problem with Americans looking at the problems in > the Middle East and other areas. They many not have > shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me > of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. > They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a > > plane with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It > > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were > implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves .. and that reason > > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred to die along > > with the thousands of innocents that they > murdered. You can't compare > > apples and oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 11:57:17 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 09:57:17 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [QUESTION] EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power Message-ID: <45EBE97D.17624.9FDCED@sandyfl.cox.net> Re-eending this request for information. The original sent 30 minutes ago has not received confirmation. ------------- Based on the survey below, several questions are obvious: (1) Other than France and Finland, what is the current capacity of generation power and demand in those countries who are opposed to nuclear generation? (2) If the current demand can not be met, where are they purchasing the additional required electrical generation? (3) How does the above change considering that many of these countries are stating that they will shutdown their nuclear plants over a specific time period? (4) How realistic is a policy that focuses on wind and solar, and not until 2020, to meet the increasing electricity demands? (5) What are the economics for the wind and solar generation compared to nuclear? What will "clean coal fired plants" cost compared to current technology, including nuclear. (6) How will political environment potentially change the above? ----------------------- EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power BRUSSELS -(Dow Jones) Mar 5 - Concerns about possible accidents and radioactive waste have pushed 61% of European Union citizens to say they want the bloc to use less nuclear power, an E.U. survey showed Monday. At the same time, a majority of survey respondents said they were concerned about climate change, which they attribute to the consumption of fossil fuels. Nuclear power is a contentious issue in Europe. While E.U. officials acknowledge it is one of the cheapest sources of low carbon energy, they are unwilling to push for more reactors. Finland and France are unabashedly pro-nuclear and building new reactors. Other countries, such as Austria and Germany, oppose nuclear energy. Instead of turning to nuclear power, E.U. officials are pushing fuel sources such as wind turbines and solar panels. Clean coal technology is also slated to be installed in the E.U. by 2020. Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From srh at esper.com Mon Mar 5 12:10:56 2007 From: srh at esper.com (Shawn Hughes (Road2)) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 13:10:56 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Stephen Dapra's Comments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003e01c75f51$a11de870$d5a290c6@LAPTOP2> Stephen; I'm not going to play 'cut and paste' commando with you. You seem passionate about foisting your opinion, no matter how liberal or revisionistic it may be upon the rest of us. I, and many others like me disagree. For instance: "Since the inception of Homeland Security/TSA I have read many stories in the popular press about their heavy-handed and tyrannical Behavior" I am trying to recall.... What do we call those that label a race or group of people after making a snap judgement using a few observations? Oh - and 'many stories'. How many is many? Especially considering over 600 MILLION people flew in just US domestic flights last year. But, I am certain you'll have many witty anecdotes that perfectly dovetail your position to refute anything I say. Bravo! Anyway, you are welcome to keep your position and point of view. Absolutely none of this has to do with radiation protection. I have zero interest in turning this list into alt.theorys.speculation.world.politics because I have been very tired of hearing the others argue, so it seems wrong of me to perpetuate it. I responded only because I didn't want you to think your blinding insight silenced me. ;) -Shawn +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Shawn R. Hughes Special Projects Consultant near Oak Ridge, Tennessee [suppressed] telelphone srh at esper.com primary email [suppressed] fledgling webpage WARNING AND NOTICE: This email may contain privileged information. If it is not addressed to you by me, you do not have the right to read or use it. If you do not get a prompt reply to your email from me, it is because I have set filtering very high due to the age of my account. Please try an alternate form of messaging. UNCLASSIFIED END TEXT From hflong at pacbell.net Mon Mar 5 12:15:33 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:15:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Terror Motive ? In-Reply-To: <143698.26401.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070305181533.87274.qmail@web83504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Steve, John, and Radsafers, Taped on the mirror in front of my desk is this quote from a Nat. Geog article by an American woman journalist in Isfahan, Iran. "What do you see as America's greatest threat to your country?" I ask him. He doesn't need to think about it. "America's poor morality," he says immediately. Not bombs. Not planes flying into buildings. Morality. "We don't want to be like you in the west," Majid insists. The tyrannical covering of female features to relieve male need to control libido, especially imposed with religious fervor on conflicted adolescents already struggling with hormonal impuses, drives them to suggested suicidal absolution. Does this underlie an otherwise incomprehendable threat? Would the Caliphate use an A bomb on nearby San Francisco, Sin City? Howard Long John Jacobus wrote: Steve, Thanks for the information. I would recommend "Jihad vs. McWorld: How Globalism and Tribalism Are Reshaping the World," (1996). http://www.amazon.com/Jihad-vs-McWorld-Globalism-Tribalism/dp/0345383044/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-3822871-6040738?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173113505&sr=8-2 --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 4 > > May I recommend "Dying to Win The Strategic > Logic of Suicide > Terrorism," by Robert A. Pape (Random House, 2005). > > According to the dust jacket, "Every > suicide terrorist campaign > has had a clear goal that is secular and political: > to compel a modern > democracy to withdraw military forces from the > territory that the > terrorists view as their homeland." > > Pape makes a strong case for this being > true, (and not only among > Islamic terrorists). On p. 243 he notes the > increasing Muslim dislike of > the United States, and on p. 244 says, "The > underlying reason is not > discontent with Western political or economic > values, which are supported > by majorities or near majorities in these [three] > countries. Rather, the > taproot is American military policy. Overwhelming > majorities across a > range of Muslim countries believe that the United > States conquered Iraq to > control its oil or to help Israel rather than to end > terrorism or promote > democracy, and fear that their country might be > next." Pape provides > survey data to support these assertions. > > See also p. 316, fn. 4 for a book Pape > recommends that gives an > "extensive evaluation of the growing resentment of > American policies in > numerous areas around the world." (I have only read > Pape, not the book he > recommends.) > > The solution is not more people snooping > through travelers' > luggage, not more Homeland "Security"/TSA goon > squads, and not more x-ray > scanners operated by higher-paid inspectors. It is > to quit sticking our > national nose into everyone else's business. Don't > we have enough problems > at home to keep us busy? > > Please read Pape's book before you start > flaming me. Thank > you. If you don't have time to read it, please read > five or more of the 38 > reviews on Amazon.com, where it received 4 1/2 > stars. > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From mborisky at arl.army.mil Mon Mar 5 12:39:28 2007 From: mborisky at arl.army.mil (Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 13:39:28 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: <425961.49313.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <425961.49313.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE John, Thanks! In my view, this is an extreme case. I didn't expect to have to endure political insults and needling on RADSAF. I consider us a family of professionals, and I don't like seeing my colleagues insulted and instigated into unnecessary conflict. List-owner please help. Mike -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 12:57 PM To: Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO); Franz "Sch?nhofer; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental) Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Mike, If you have any problems with Freanz's posting I suggest you correspond with him, or use the delete key. Only the List-owner can refuse to let individuals post on this list server. We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree. --- "Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)" wrote: > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > Franz, > > I request once again that you "knock it off". You are in my opinion > the only person on this list serve that makes inappropriate postings > and creates problems. You seem to thrive on and enjoy conflict, and > you use subtle and obvious techniques to > generate it. Seems you are constantly looking for > opportunities to make postings with obvious or subtle anti-US > sentiments. I can assure you there are other quiet RADSAF members > besides me that recognize your strategies and motives and don't > appreciate it. I would recommend that you eliminate your kind sign > offs with any reference to "kind regards" or "respect" as I, and > venture to say others, see them as completely disingenuous. "Be nice" > or please take your conflict elsewhere. And please leave Sandy and > everyone else alone and don't instigate them into your arena of > conflict and negativity. I am actually surprised that the moderator > allows you to continue posting. > > Mike Borisky > Army Research Lab > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Franz Sch?nhofer > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:55 PM > To: 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. > Rozental (J. J. Rozental) > Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak > > Since I got tired of the subject I have not reacted to any message on > that subject since a long time, but what I yesterday read in the > discussion between John and Mr. Perle motivated me to plan to react > tomorrow, because what is distributed by Mr. Perle is just > hairraising. But his two last messages are so unacceptable that I > write this comment now. All attempts to intimitate me and ridicule me > are in vain, because such a character like Mr. > Perle cannot insult me. John, you know that I always have esteemed > your contributions I understand (I do not understand questions of > epidemiology and similar ones). Now I have to congratulate you, > because until now you are obviously the only US-citizen on RADSAFE to > speak out clearly against this paranoid "safety thinking", which seems > to be only used to intimitade people, subject them to humiliation > (been shown naked on screens) and to undermine the human rights and of > course to raise the profit of quite a few companies claiming that they > manufacture instruments and devices for "safety". I know more than > well, that these are not only my thoughts, but these are the thoughts > of many million US-citizens and influential groups. > Practically all of my US-friends and collegues are among them. > > So much now, but the main reason that I have not waited until > tomorrow, is, that Mr. Perle used the expression "sub-human" before > and even insisted on these words in his latest contribution. This is > clearly Nazi-Speak - in German "Untermenschen", a label given by > Nazi-Germany to non-arian people like all Slavs, including Russians, > Ukrainians, Poles, Czech, Slovenians, Serbs, Montenegrinians etc. > etc., the Romas (gypsies), Arabs and especially Jews. (It is > intersting that the Romas are genuine Arians.) I do not expect that > Mr. Perle has ever been to Auschwitz or Majdanek or any of the other > Nazi-extinction camps, where "sub-humans" were killed daily by the > thousands or rather tens of thousands like insects by using hydrogen > cyanide. I have been there and therefore I am more than allergic for > such words. > > Now I ask whether RADSAFE is the right place to use Nazi-speak. > Another US citizen has been banned many years ago from the list, > because he was calling an international organisation for "Gestapo". It > seems that this expression throws a light on Mr. Perles character. > More light I'll shed on him and his queer opinions tomorrow (like "he" > wants to be safe on flights and therefore everybody else has to > undergo humiliating procedures, not raising at all safety and > security). > > It is half past midnight and again I will go to sleep. The most recent > attempt to insult me by Mr. > Perle on 15 Feb. is ridiculous: I will not take an aspirin, because I > take it everyday in the morning according to my doctors advice. I do > not take something called "Luvox". I do not even know what it is, but > this only confirms that Mr. Perle is of the opinion that everybody in > this world should know US-brandnames and in a broader view succumb to > any US interest and request. Since I might concede that Mr. Perle > might be aware, that an Austrian does not know "Luvox" I take the > alternative conclusion that he was writing this for the US-market of > his company. > > Again, John, my deepest respect. Mr. Perle, please never adress me > personally again. > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > MinRat i.R. > Habicherg. 31/7 > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > AUSTRIA > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Sandy Perle > Gesendet: Freitag, 02. M?rz 2007 23:18 > An: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still > are in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping > the plane to fly to another country? > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist > is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the > risks we face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were > not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the > problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have > shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view > of the Japanese during WWII. > They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a > > plane with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It > > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were > implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves .. and that reason > > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred to die along > > with the thousands of innocents that they > murdered. You can't compare > > apples and oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE From terryj at iit.edu Mon Mar 5 12:53:18 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:53:18 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <47122ED5-B5B6-4946-B76C-01E05428444D@iit.edu> Actually, this really is a shame. I hope that some of them make the move down to Ludlum. This has been in the works for some time now. If anyone needs backup manuals for older instruments, the time to ask is now. I hate Windows programs. I wish that scientific instrument manufacturers would provide linux software at a minimum. I guess that loss on knowledge is one of dangers of selling out to large multinational corporations. Jeff On Mar 5, 2007, at 11:39 AM, J. Marshall Reber wrote: > I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their > Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and > service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more > than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, > repair service will all be done in South Carolina. > > Throw out your little screwdrivers - - - future instrument > adjustment and calibrations will all be done by Windows program > interaction. Digitize your thought processes or become out-of- > date! All analog circuitry will be done by digital emulation. > People replaced by robots - - - where will it end? Oh the > humanity, the humanity!!! > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// > radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other > settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From nssihou at aol.com Mon Mar 5 13:05:57 2007 From: nssihou at aol.com (nssihou at aol.com) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:05:57 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: References: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <8C92D7070B4DE43-138C-18A6@WEBMAIL-RA05.sysops.aol.com> I have suggested many times before that members of RADSAFE should simply ignore the cooks who seem to spend their entire lifetime criticizing others on RADSAFE for their views or their spelling. I makes you wonder who pays these persons for the time they spend. Each time I suggest ignoring these persons, someone indicates that there is a need to refute what the person says. It would appear that some people are just looking for an excuse to argue. When I note that the author of the comment is by one of these troublemakers, I simply delete the comment as I would any other recognizable garbage on line. I would suggest a similar approach by others Bob Gallagher NSSI -----Original Message----- From: mborisky at arl.army.mil To: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at; crispy_bird at yahoo.com; radsafe at radlab.nl; joseroze at netvision.net.il Sent: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 8:13 AM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Franz, I request once again that you "knock it off". You are in my opinion the only person on this list serve that makes inappropriate postings and creates problems. You seem to thrive on and enjoy conflict, and you use subtle and obvious techniques to generate it. Seems you are constantly looking for opportunities to make postings with obvious or subtle anti-US sentiments. I can assure you there are other quiet RADSAF members besides me that recognize your strategies and motives and don't appreciate it. I would recommend that you eliminate your kind sign offs with any reference to "kind regards" or "respect" as I, and venture to say others, see them as completely disingenuous. "Be nice" or please take your conflict elsewhere. And please leave Sandy and everyone else alone and don't instigate them into your arena of conflict and negativity. I am actually surprised that the moderator allows you to continue posting. Mike Borisky Army Research Lab -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Franz Sch?nhofer Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:55 PM To: 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental) Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Since I got tired of the subject I have not reacted to any message on that subject since a long time, but what I yesterday read in the discussion between John and Mr. Perle motivated me to plan to react tomorrow, because what is distributed by Mr. Perle is just hairraising. But his two last messages are so unacceptable that I write this comment now. All attempts to intimitate me and ridicule me are in vain, because such a character like Mr. Perle cannot insult me. John, you know that I always have esteemed your contributions I understand (I do not understand questions of epidemiology and similar ones). Now I have to congratulate you, because until now you are obviously the only US-citizen on RADSAFE to speak out clearly against this paranoid "safety thinking", which seems to be only used to intimitade people, subject them to humiliation (been shown naked on screens) and to undermine the human rights and of course to raise the profit of quite a few companies claiming that they manufacture instruments and devices for "safety". I know more than well, that these are not only my thoughts, but these are the thoughts of many million US-citizens and influential groups. Practically all of my US-friends and collegues are among them. So much now, but the main reason that I have not waited until tomorrow, is, that Mr. Perle used the expression "sub-human" before and even insisted on these words in his latest contribution. This is clearly Nazi-Speak - in German "Untermenschen", a label given by Nazi-Germany to non-arian people like all Slavs, including Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Czech, Slovenians, Serbs, Montenegrinians etc. etc., the Romas (gypsies), Arabs and especially Jews. (It is intersting that the Romas are genuine Arians.) I do not expect that Mr. Perle has ever been to Auschwitz or Majdanek or any of the other Nazi-extinction camps, where "sub-humans" were killed daily by the thousands or rather tens of thousands like insects by using hydrogen cyanide. I have been there and therefore I am more than allergic for such words. Now I ask whether RADSAFE is the right place to use Nazi-speak. Another US citizen has been banned many years ago from the list, because he was calling an international organisation for "Gestapo". It seems that this expression throws a light on Mr. Perles character. More light I'll shed on him and his queer opinions tomorrow (like "he" wants to be safe on flights and therefore everybody else has to undergo humiliating procedures, not raising at all safety and security). It is half past midnight and again I will go to sleep. The most recent attempt to insult me by Mr. Perle on 15 Feb. is ridiculous: I will not take an aspirin, because I take it everyday in the morning according to my doctors advice. I do not take something called "Luvox". I do not even know what it is, but this only confirms that Mr. Perle is of the opinion that everybody in this world should know US-brandnames and in a broader view succumb to any US interest and request. Since I might concede that Mr. Perle might be aware, that an Austrian does not know "Luvox" I take the alternative conclusion that he was writing this for the US-market of his company. Again, John, my deepest respect. Mr. Perle, please never adress me personally again. Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Sandy Perle Gesendet: Freitag, 02. M?rz 2007 23:18 An: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From LNMolino at aol.com Mon Mar 5 13:11:42 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:11:42 EST Subject: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Ray... Message-ID: In a message dated 3/5/2007 9:40:15 A.M. Central Standard Time, crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: Louis, You are correct. I should have said that "this new wave of terrorism will pass and be replace by another." At the beginning of the 20th century, Anarchism was the new terrorism. It will be replaced by a new one. One can even argue that the treat of nuclear warfare was a form of terrorism, which is why it was called MAD. http://www.state.de.us/cjc/terrorism/history.shtml I can fully agree with that statement above. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From garyi at trinityphysics.com Mon Mar 5 13:40:20 2007 From: garyi at trinityphysics.com (garyi at trinityphysics.com) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:40:20 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <20070305021431.57129.qmail@web32510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House>, <20070305021431.57129.qmail@web32510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45EC1DC4.9691.1EC9BBB1@garyi.trinityphysics.com> We stick our nose into things that threaten our survival or the survival of our "progeny". When nutters try to clean up the local gene pool with a dose of ethnic cleansing, we also stick our noses in, if we have the resources and the moral will to do so. Either situation justifies some level of military butt kicking, and we extend that wilingness to use force for the protection of our allies. Radical Islamic terrorism is a threat to our survival, and even more of a threat to the survival of our progeny. Demographically, the Europeans who were our good friends back in the 1940s and 50s are dying out. Their population is decreasing with a half-life of around 20 to 40 years, because they do not choose to reproduce. They are being replaced by a rapid influx of Muslims, who reproduce with vigor. So the problem for the US is that at some point in the future, many if not most European nations will be Muslim. If radical Islamic terrorism is sufficiently alive and well at that time, it will seek control of the government, the military, and the nuclear weapons of those countries. What will happen then? Why, it is quite simple. We will have a go at destroying each other, of course. And it is important to remember that this will not simply be Cold War: Round 2. No, this new enemy has no instinct for self- preservation, and is perfectly happy to die as long as you, unbeliever, will die also. Mutually Assured Destruction would not be a deterent, it would be a goal. How can the US prevent this? The only course of action with any apparent hope of success is to eliminate terrorism, especially the radical Islamic type. So when we find terrorists or countries that sponsor terrorists, we need to step on them as hard as we can. That is why we are in Iraq. For America, 911 was the kitchen light switched on in the middle night, revealing an infestation that we, till then, knew of only remotely and vaguely. It was a horrifying sight, because these vermin were determined to have the corpses of our friends and family members, instead of last night's pizza crumbs. The vision crystallized our resolve, and we squashed the most obvious and blatant roach that we saw: Saddam Hussein. Unfortunately, his fellow vermin have gone to ground and are campaigning to get the light switched off again. Christianity sponsored the Inquisition at one point. Aren't you glad that it didn't have nuclear weapons then! Modern Christians shudder at the memory of the Inquisition. In the same way, I hope that all Muslims will one day shudder at the memory of the innocent blood spilled in the name of Islam. Regards, Gary Isenhower From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 13:44:00 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 11:44:00 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: <425961.49313.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5E0@gdses.corp.gds.com> John, Yes, I agree with your comment "We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree." I am a firm believer in the USA 1st amendment providing for "reasonable" freedom of speech. We can't stifle speech at the same time we try to promote freedom elsewhere in the world. The 1st amendment is meaningless unless it protects the most egregious speech. As far as Radsafe, it is a monitored list, and if Marcel believes there is an issue with anyone's conduct and/or comments, then he would deal with it as best as possible, as did Mike Stabin previously. I simply delete the posts from those individuals whom I no longer wish to have a dialogue with. Each member can do the same. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:57 AM Mike, If you have any problems with Freanz's posting I suggest you correspond with him, or use the delete key. Only the List-owner can refuse to let individuals post on this list server. We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree. From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 13:46:24 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 11:46:24 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: [RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Message-ID: <45EC0310.11911.103FD9E@sandyfl.cox.net> John, Yes, I agree with your comment "We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree." I am a firm believer in the USA 1st amendment providing for "reasonable" freedom of speech. We can't stifle speech at the same time we try to promote freedom elsewhere in the world. The 1st amendment is meaningless unless it protects the most egregious speech. As far as Radsafe, it is a monitored list, and if Marcel believes there is an issue with anyone's conduct and/or comments, then he would deal with it as best as possible, as did Mike Stabin previously. I simply delete the posts from those individuals whom I no longer wish to have a dialogue with. Each member can do the same. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:57 AM Mike, If you have any problems with Freanz's posting I suggest you correspond with him, or use the delete key. Only the List-owner can refuse to let individuals post on this list server. We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree. Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From WesVanPelt at verizon.net Mon Mar 5 13:52:06 2007 From: WesVanPelt at verizon.net (Wes Van Pelt) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:52:06 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001501c75f5f$c1a052f0$44e0f8d0$@net> Of course, there is still Ludlum. Wes Best regards, Wes Wesley R. Van Pelt, PhD, CIH, CHP Wesley R. Van Pelt Associates, Inc. ? I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 14:00:05 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 12:00:05 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: [Radsafe] Airport X-rays Message-ID: <45EC0645.3206.1108B6C@sandyfl.cox.net> The following is from the Washington Post's Mensa Invitational seems appropriate when one considers a philosophy that demands that technology not be pursued unless there is a zero tolerance capability and must meet 100% of a stated need. Bozone: The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future. --------------------------------------------- Pete Bailey stated the following > Let's continue to > develop and implement new > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > never get there. There > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Ya know, the above phrase like the "anti-nukes" push against nuclear power . . . Spend lots of resources reducing an ever decreasing risk.... Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From jmarshall.reber at comcast.net Mon Mar 5 14:05:11 2007 From: jmarshall.reber at comcast.net (J. Marshall Reber) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 15:05:11 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <001501c75f5f$c1a052f0$44e0f8d0$@net> References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> <001501c75f5f$c1a052f0$44e0f8d0$@net> Message-ID: <3BFBB2AA-2F6E-43CC-B31D-2F8780A9B5AC@comcast.net> On Mar 5, 2007, at 2:52 PM, Wes Van Pelt wrote: > Of course, there is still Ludlum. Thank goodness, a First Rate company!! From dlawrencenewyork at aol.com Mon Mar 5 14:23:36 2007 From: dlawrencenewyork at aol.com (dlawrencenewyork at aol.com) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 15:23:36 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8C92D7B49DFDF44-1C24-211E@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> RIP E.I.C. RTID -----Original Message----- From: jmarshall.reber at comcast.net To: radsafe at radlab.nl Sent: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:39 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. Throw out your little screwdrivers - - - future instrument adjustment and calibrations will all be done by Windows program interaction. Digitize your thought processes or become out-of-date! All analog circuitry will be done by digital emulation. People replaced by robots - - - where will it end? Oh the humanity, the humanity!!! _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From jjcohen at prodigy.net Mon Mar 5 15:13:03 2007 From: jjcohen at prodigy.net (jjcohen at prodigy.net) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 13:13:03 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001b01c75f6b$10f6d620$7eefe245@domainnotset.invalid> Not much new here--- I believe those in the buggy whip industry expressed similar sentiments when the internal combustion engine became popular. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Marshall Reber" To: "radsafelist" Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:39 AM Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era > I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their > Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and > service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than > 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair > service will all be done in South Carolina. > > Throw out your little screwdrivers - - - future instrument adjustment > and calibrations will all be done by Windows program interaction. > Digitize your thought processes or become out-of-date! All analog > circuitry will be done by digital emulation. People replaced by > robots - - - where will it end? Oh the humanity, the humanity!!! > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 15:08:36 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 13:08:36 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5E4@gdses.corp.gds.com> Are you sure that these operations aren't being consolidated in their new manufacturing facility located in Oakbrook, OH? Thermo employees do monitor this list, so we might get some more details regarding this. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of J. Marshall Reber Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:40 AM To: radsafelist Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. From jsalsman at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 15:59:41 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 13:59:41 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Terror Motive ? Message-ID: Howard Long wrote: > Would the Caliphate use an A bomb on nearby San Francisco, Sin City? The San Francisco Bar Area, by virtue perhaps of its great weather, has become the permanent or part-year home of large segments of the world's ultra-rich, including immigrants and foreign nationals from Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc. Many of the world's very wealthy who live here are not constrained by strict religious mores derived from Bronze Age myths unlike leaders in Riyadh, Tehran, and Washington D.C. who must give extensive lip-service to their subjects' myths in order to remain in power. However, many of the most powerful people in Iran, Saudi Arabi, Jordan, and even Syria, have extensive family in the San Francisco Bay Area. Our multinational heritage is a source of great economic and social strength in our community. If an A-bomb attack were to occur in the Western US, I think it would be much more likely in San Diego, with it's large and easily accessible military harbor area, or Las Vegas, which actually is called "sin city" unlike San Francisco. However, if an anti-US terrorist group obtained one or a few A-bombs, then I think it is much more likely that they would try to detonate from the tall residential buildings just North of the FBI building in Washington, DC. I don't think it is a question of "if," but "when." Putting full body x-ray scanners in the airports isn't going to help this. We need to get the diplomacy of State Department promoted above the war-making functions of the Defense Department. For too long diplomacy has been relativly ignored in the US. Things could have been so much better, and they still can be. Sincerely, James Salsman From jdaitken at sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com Mon Mar 5 16:19:04 2007 From: jdaitken at sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com (Doug Aitken) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 16:19:04 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <45EC1DC4.9691.1EC9BBB1@garyi.trinityphysics.com> References: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> <20070305021431.57129.qmail@web32510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <45EC1DC4.9691.1EC9BBB1@garyi.trinityphysics.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20070305161500.06dda140@us1061-pop3.mail.slb.com> At 01:40 PM 3/5/2007, garyi at trinityphysics.com wrote: >We stick our nose into things that threaten our survival or the survival >of our "progeny"........ Can we please get back to discussing the hazards of DU? At least, that has a tenuous relation to Radiation Safety.......... Or just get back to keeping quiet unless there is a real topic of real interest to Health Physics people..... Regards Doug Doug Aitken Office Phone Use Cell phone! QHSE Advisor Home Phone 713 797-0919 D&M Operations Support Cell Phone 713 562-8585 Schlumberger Technology Corporation From terryj at iit.edu Mon Mar 5 16:24:31 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 16:24:31 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <45EC1DC4.9691.1EC9BBB1@garyi.trinityphysics.com> References: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> <20070305021431.57129.qmail@web32510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <45EC1DC4.9691.1EC9BBB1@garyi.trinityphysics.com> Message-ID: <77DCA1DA-6E56-422F-B745-F15AF0291250@iit.edu> I hate to argue but ... On Mar 5, 2007, at 1:40 PM, garyi at trinityphysics.com wrote: > That is why > we are in Iraq. For America, 911 was the kitchen light switched on > in the middle night, > revealing an infestation that we, till then, knew of only remotely > and vaguely. It was a > horrifying sight, because these vermin were determined to have the > corpses of our friends > and family members, instead of last night's pizza crumbs. I believe that only a minority of Americans have had this light switched on. It is an event that I won't forget any time soon. However, the U. S. media decided to censor the bodies exploding upon impact with light posts, etc. The absence of these images certainly made it more difficult for many U. S. citizens (greater than 50% but close to 50%) to have this illuminated for them. > The vision crystallized our resolve, I believe that many of my countrymen have not had their resolve crystallized, again around 50% would be my guess. One could certainly argue that they should have been awaken to this threat of terrorism. That said I still don't believe that the scanners will make much of an impact on flight security at all. I think that is a red herring to the actually argument that will need to be made in the U. S. Jeff From LNMolino at aol.com Mon Mar 5 16:30:04 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 17:30:04 EST Subject: AW: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] NewAirport X-... Message-ID: Comments in-line: LNM In a message dated 3/5/2007 4:18:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, franz.schoenhofer at chello.at writes: Louis, You might remember that especially in the 80's and early 90's hijacking was a kind of everyday event. This did not only include Muslims, but to a much higher extent all from Russians to escape to the West, Cubans forcing deviation to Cuba, members of the German RAF to liberate imprisoned members, etc. etc. This terror has declined to zero as far as I know. For one simple reason as I see (this answer applies to US based high jacking only). Prior to 9/11 if say a flight from Cuba was high jacked wanting to go to Miami it was likely a Cuban seeking political asylum etc. No doubt the plane would divert and the situation resolved with no real fanfare BUT then 19 Me too 4 planes (likely more in the offing) and intentionally slammed into buildings. no demands, no ransoms, nothing just murders in excess of 3500 including 343 members of the FDNY and over 70 law enforcement officers from PAPD and NYPD. Now as a "typical" red blooded American male here's my response to the Pre 9/11 high jacking if I am on the plane. I am made as it's cutting into my life, I understand this Cuban wanting off that island for a variety of reasons but he's taking MY time. On the day I fly for the first time in a post 9/11 world my attitude is really simple, if some SOB stands up with a weapon he's not gonna have a good day at least I'll try to be like those in United flight 93. No way is ANYONE taking this plane while I'm on it is my motto. Other forms of terror have involved, but this seems to be a shortlived one - do not claim it to enhanced "security". My personal opinion then and also nowadays: If the mass media would not have covered these events and especially the politically motivated ones to such an event no terrorists would have any more used this potential blackmail. Well on that I would tend to agree with you. Let's talk about Spain. They bailed out of Iraq not long after their trains were bombed in Madrid yes? Since they left has there been any other acts well as a matter of fact several. So those terrorists got what they wanted then wanted some more. The US has a ling held policy to not negotiate with terrorists, the day we do is the day we begin to die. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From jsalsman at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 16:48:01 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:48:01 -0800 Subject: AW: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-... Message-ID: > The US has a long-held policy to not negotiate with terrorists.... On the contrary: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070305fa_fact_hersh http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/25/hersh-qaeda/ We don't negotiate with them, we just go ahead and fund and arm them. All this benefits is the arms manufacturers, and it makes huge national embarrassments like Iran-Contra and now this Al Qaeda crap. Sincerely, James Salsman From terryj at iit.edu Mon Mar 5 17:00:40 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 17:00:40 -0600 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <000701c75f76$9eb63770$49197254@pc1> References: <000701c75f76$9eb63770$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <16B2090F-CBCF-4FFC-A23F-1CE431736E0D@iit.edu> I agree that this is one of the typical results of globalization, hence the reason that I mentioned it. U. S. companies have suffered from this for many years. Most of the steel industry that I grew up with is now closed or owned by multinational corporations. Of course, it is always easy to forget that their are hardships faced in other areas. My concern is the loss of knowledge, working at a university with many older pieces of equipment. It was nice to be able to call up Santa Fe and speak to someone who actually had seen one of these devices before. I doubt that many of the Santa Fe'ers will up and move to Germany. People are always replaceable over the long term, it is only in the short term that there loss is irreplaceable. Jeff On Mar 5, 2007, at 4:35 PM, Franz Sch?nhofer wrote: > Jeff, > > please forgive the "holes" in my memory: Didn't Eberline purchase a > German > company a few decades ago? People there were very unhappy about > this. I have > even bought a few instruments of both the original and the new > company. Now > it seems more profitable to have R&D being done in Germany. That's > one of > the typical results of globalisation. All around the world > companies are > suffering from that - why not an US company? - O.k. I am now > according to > some other RADSAFErs sending an anti-US comment. Let it be. > > Best regards, > > Franz > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > MinRat i.R. > Habicherg. 31/7 > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > AUSTRIA > > From didi at tgi-sci.com Mon Mar 5 17:41:15 2007 From: didi at tgi-sci.com (Dimiter Popoff) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 1:41:15 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: End of an Era Message-ID: <45ECC737-11-9D8AFEC7@mail.tgi-sci.com> > I hate Windows programs. I wish that scientific instrument > manufacturers would provide linux software at a minimum. Not many do, it is so easy to make some software under windows which _looks_ like a decent instrument without having (to pay for) much expertise. By the moment the user finds out how cumbersome any windows based device is (how long it takes to boot, how often windows goes out for lunch with the hard disk etc.) it is too late, they have bought it. In todays world, users expect transparent internet access to their equipment; making this independently (i.e. without having a PC, windows or linux based) takes more resources than most equipment manufacturers have. And how many can deliver a device not only networkable, but usable without needing a wintel PC, with its own OS and everything... I can count up to 1 so far :-). Dimiter ------------------------------------------------------ Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments http://www.tgi-sci.com ------------------------------------------------------ > From: Jeff Terry > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era > Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:53:18 -0600 > To: radsafelist > > Actually, this really is a shame. I hope that some of them make the > move down to Ludlum. This has been in the works for some time now. If > anyone needs backup manuals for older instruments, the time to ask is > now. > > I hate Windows programs. I wish that scientific instrument > manufacturers would provide linux software at a minimum. > > I guess that loss on knowledge is one of dangers of selling out to > large multinational corporations. > > Jeff > > On Mar 5, 2007, at 11:39 AM, J. Marshall Reber wrote: > > > I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their > > Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and > > service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more > > than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, > > repair service will all be done in South Carolina. > > > > Throw out your little screwdrivers - - - future instrument > > adjustment and calibrations will all be done by Windows program > > interaction. Digitize your thought processes or become out-of- > > date! All analog circuitry will be done by digital emulation. > > People replaced by robots - - - where will it end? Oh the > > humanity, the humanity!!! > > > > _______________________________________________ > > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// > > radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other > > settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Mon Mar 5 17:47:48 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 18:47:48 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] radiation fear strikes again ? References: <0F8BD87EE693D411A1A500508BAC86F70B4F5B27@sps13.aecl.ca> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F26B@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> -----Original Message----- From: Franta, Jaroslav Sent: Mon 3/5/2007 10:30 AM To: Radsafe (E-mail) The ultraviolet imaging spectrometer--Alice--kicked off needlessly during the approach to the planet, costing star-occultation data on the atmospheres of some of Jupiter's moons. "We should never have trip wires and set points for safety lower than they need to be," says New Horizons Principal Investigator Alan Stern. "We sort of stubbed our toe by not thinking it through well enough." Right Jaro, The "radiation fear" paradigm all over. "Radiation protection" continues to do it by orders of magnitude. :-) Regards, Jim From FloodJR at nv.doe.gov Mon Mar 5 18:20:01 2007 From: FloodJR at nv.doe.gov (Flood, John) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 16:20:01 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5E4@gdses.corp.gds.com> References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5E4@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <3F9210628ADD1D44949E7FD0841A6B2B6CE16E@NTS-VPO1-WS.NTS.OPS> It is my understanding that much design and manufacturing is moving from Santa Fe to Ohio, while calibration and repair will go to South Carolina as stated earlier. Some of the instruments come from the German part of the Thermo empire, which has its own design & production, and that will continue. How many of the Santa Fe workforce will end up with a Thermo job elsewhere, and how many will be laid off I couldn't even guess. Bob Flood Nevada Test Site -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 1:09 PM To: 'J. Marshall Reber'; 'radsafelist' Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era Are you sure that these operations aren't being consolidated in their new manufacturing facility located in Oakbrook, OH? Thermo employees do monitor this list, so we might get some more details regarding this. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of J. Marshall Reber Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:40 AM To: radsafelist Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From ray2hoover at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 18:20:52 2007 From: ray2hoover at yahoo.com (Raymond A Hoover) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 16:20:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <223925.87069.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <995653.77922.qm@web60217.mail.yahoo.com> Actually, Roosevelt had a number of Soviet agents on his staff (the U.S. didn't know it at the time of course). In point of fact Rossevelt's chief adviser at the Malta conference was a Soviet agent. Stalin knew more about the Manhatten Project than Truman did when he took over from Roosevelt. Let me also point out that the Soviets and the Nazis (bet you didn't know that Nazi is an acronym for National Socialst, i.e. the Nazis were socialists) had more than one agreement during the inter war period. The Soviets provided training areas for the German army in exchange for advanced training, the Ribbentrop-Molotov agreement that partitioned Poland are two examples). While it is true that Stalin was constantly asking for a second front, the West hadn't abandoned him. The U.S. provided a great deal of assistance the Soviets that allowed them to continue fighting. As one example when I was in Kiev I toured a War Museum. In one corner of the museum there sat a DC-3. The sign on the walkway said it was a Soviet plane. It was either a copy of some of the U.S. support. The U.S. gave the Soviets lots of infrastructure support (vehicles, food, medicine, etc). most of which was never aknowledged by the Soviets. None of this is related to adiation stuff of course. John Jacobus wrote: Steve, I don't think there was any "love affair" between FDR and Stalin. After WWI there was a powerful isolationist movement in this country. Our entry into WWII was delayed by the "America First" movement, a member of which was the American hero Charles Lindbergh. http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/americafirst.html Also, there was fear of the rise Communism. And who better to fight the Communist that the Facists? Even before the US entered the European front, we had arrangements with Britain, e.g., Lend-Lease policy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease At the outset of our involvement, Stalin pushed for a second front. Instead the US and Britain push through North Africa, into the Mediterranian. Basically, the Soviet Union breed the Nazis with their own soldiers and citizens until we finally invaded Normandy. --- Steven Dapra wrote: Rest deleted. --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. From LNMolino at aol.com Mon Mar 5 20:08:23 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 21:08:23 EST Subject: [ RadSafe ] Record-Low Production Costs, Near-Record Output Mark Stellar Year for U.S. Message-ID: Record-Low Production Costs, Near-Record Output Mark Stellar Year for U.S. Nuclear Power Plants WASHINGTON, D.C., Feb. 20, 2007?U.S. nuclear power plants in 2006 supplied the second-highest amount of electricity in the industry?s history while achieving record-low production costs, according to preliminary figures released today by the Nuclear Energy Institute. The 103 commercial nuclear plants operating in 31 states generated 787.6 billion kilowatt-hours (kwh) of electricity last year, second only to the record-high of 788.5 billion kwh of electricity produced in 2004. Nuclear energy supplies electricity to one of every five homes and businesses. It also supplies nearly 75 percent of the electricity that comes from sources, including renewable technologies and hydroelectric power plants, that do not emit controlled pollutants or greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. [Ummm. The NEI could do better than that. Let's be honest. Nukes emit CO2 on par with wind, but in contrast can provide power nearly 24/7. They also release trivial amounts of radioisotopes, technically pollutants. - JH] The industry?s average production costs?encompassing expenses for uranium fuel and operations and maintenance?were an all-time low of 1.66 cents/kwh in 2006, according to preliminary figures. Average production costs have been below 2 cents/kwh for the past eight years, making nuclear power plants highly cost competitive with other electricity sources, particularly those that are capable of reliably producing large amounts of electricity. [Add about 2 cents per kWh for capital, and 3 cents per kWh for transmission. IMO. - JH] ?The consistent safe, high performance and efficient operation of the nation?s nuclear plants provides overwhelming evidence that our business model is working and buttresses the case for building a new generation of advanced-design plants to help America meet its energy needs,? said Frank L. (Skip) Bowman, NEI president and chief executive officer. Electricity production at nuclear power plants has increased 36 percent since 1990, adding the equivalent of more than 26 large power plants to the electrical grid and preventing the emission of massive amounts of controlled air pollutants and greenhouse gases if that increase in baseload, or around-the-clock, electricity production instead had been met by fossil-fired power plants. Amid concerns about future energy security and the threat of global climate change, and with the nation?s electricity needs projected to increase 40 percent over the next 25 years, a growing chorus of supporters?spanning policymakers, leading environmentalists, business leaders and the public at large?is advocating the construction of new nuclear power plants. The Energy Policy Act of 2005 included incentives for a limited number of advanced-design nuclear plants among its provisions encouraging improved energy efficiency and the construction of renewable energy sources and cleaner fossil-fired power plants. The average production cost dropped to a record-low even though prices for uranium fuel have increased considerably over the past three years. Production costs are a key measure of an electricity source?s competitiveness in the market because generating companies typically dispatch their low-cost electricity to the grid first. Even when expenses for taxes, decommissioning and yearly capital additions are added to production costs to yield a total electricity cost, nuclear-generated electricity typically clears the market for less than 2.5 cents/kwh. By comparison, production costs alone for natural gas-fired power plants averaged 7.5 cents/kwh in 2005, according to Global Energy Decisions data. [New plants slightly more expensive, but still looking good. - JH] The industry?s average capacity factor?a measure of efficiency?was 89.9 percent last year, according to preliminary figures. That is slightly higher than 2005?s 89.3 percent; the industry?s record-high of 90.3 percent was set in 2002. ?It?s going to take a collaborative effort of all forms of electricity generation, as well as much-improved efficiency, to meet the sizable energy needs that our nation faces,? Bowman said. ?Still, the exceptional performance achieved at U.S. nuclear power plants in 2006 shows that the nation?s future energy security hinges in part upon increased reliance on clean, safe and affordable nuclear energy.? Final figures on the industry?s 2006 performance are expected within about two months. ### http://www.nei.org/index.asp?catnum=4&catid=1014 Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 20:28:21 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:28:21 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Slovaks and Czechs among the biggest nuclear energy supporters in EU Message-ID: <45EC6145.5132.5DAA8EB@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: *Slovaks and Czechs among the biggest nuclear energy supporters in EU *Firm aims to reopen nuclear plant *State flags referendum on nuclear power *GCC has right to pursue nuclear energy: Saudi *Nuclear power not the only thing Alternate Energy has in mind --------------------------------------------------------------------- Slovaks and Czechs among the biggest nuclear energy supporters in EU - Eurobarometer poll PRAGUE (Inertrfax) MARCH 5. INTERFAX CENTRAL EUROPE - Citizens of Slovakia and the Czech Republic - both new European Union member states which have nuclear power plants - are among the biggest supporters of nuclear energy within the EU, according to a Eurobarometer poll released Monday. "Sweden tops the ranking (27%), followed by Finland, Slovakia and Bulgaria (all 24%)," the Eurobarometer poll said. "In these countries the share nuclear energy represents in total electricity production ranges from about a third in Finland to 56% in Slovakia." The survey noted two factors appear to have an effect on public opinion at country level: whether a country has nuclear power plants (NPP) in operation and, to a certain extent, the share of nuclear energy in total electricity generation in each country. The highest proportions of EU citizens who say that the share of nuclear energy should be increased are found in countries where there are functional NPPs, according to Eurobarometer. "High numbers of respondents who would like to keep the proportion of nuclear energy the same are also found in countries where [plants] are in operation, namely the Czech Republic (51%), Hungary (50%), Finland (47%), Slovenia and Slovakia (both 46%)," the poll found. Fifteen EU states have nuclear power plants: Belgium, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Lithuania, Spain, the Netherlands, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Sweden, the United Kingdom. The twelve EU states that do not have nuclear power plants are Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Luxembourg, Malta, Poland and Portugal. ----------------- Firm aims to reopen nuclear plant Hinkley Point B is due to be decommissioned in 2011 British Energy has applied for permission to reopen Hinkley B nuclear power station in Somerset, after six months of repair work. The station was closed in September last year for repairs to cracked pipes in the boiler system. The Stop Hinkley Campaign Group says it is not safe and British Energy will be taking a huge chance by operating it. The power station, which costs about ?1m a day to run, is due to be decommissioned in 2011. Campaign group spokesperson Jim Duffy said: "We're already passed the effective life of this nuclear reactor and what's happening is that Hinkley are acting on a string and a prayer." He said the fact that it took three months longer than expected to complete the repairs meant it was not safe. However, Nigel Cann director of Hinkley B section, said if the units were not in a position to start up safely, then they would not. "Our responsibility to the safety of the public and our staff members is always our number one priority," he said. The Nuclear Installations Inspectorate is expected to make its decision by the end of the month. -------------- State flags referendum on nuclear power SOUTH Australian Premier Mike Rann says he will call a referendum on nuclear power if the Federal Government moves to override state bans on such a power plant in SA. Mr Rann today said he would introduce legislation to parliament that would trigger the referendum if the Commonwealth pushed the issue. "It now appears the Prime Minister is becoming a champion of domestic nuclear power generation and his government is actively promoting the idea of overturning laws to allow their establishment in Australia," Mr Rann said. "I believe this is an issue of such significance and controversy that the people should be given a direct say in whether they want nuclear power plants built in South Australia." Mr Rann said his position was clear and his government would always oppose nuclear power because it was financially irresponsible, economically unviable and would massively force up the price of power. But he said if the community wanted to debate the pros and cons of nuclear power then a referendum would provide a platform to help people make an informed judgment. "If the Federal Government is so sure that nuclear power stations are a good idea, then it should welcome the opportunity for the people of South Australia to have a say," the Premier said. ------------- GCC has right to pursue nuclear energy: Saudi (The Peninsula) Mar 6 - The First Deputy Premier and Foreign Minister H E Sheikh Hamad bin Jassem bin Jabor Al Thani attending the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) meeting in Riyadh yesterday. Gulf nations warn against attack on Iran Riyadh o Saudi Arabia said yesterday that Iran?s nuclear programme was an extra burden on a region already fraught with challenges, but that Gulf allies had the right to their own peaceful atomic ambitions. Foreign Ministers of the six-member Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states were meeting in the Saudi capital to discuss progress in their plans for a joint civil atomic programme that has raised fears of a nuclear race with Iran. They agreed at a summit in December to study the feasibility of developing nuclear energy. "The nuclear crisis in the region has become an extra burden to challenges that are already facing us," Saudi Foreign Affairs Minister Prince Saud Al Faisal told the meeting. "This urges us to deal with the new challenge with full responsibility ... and adopt diplomatic solutions in a way that would preserve the right of countries in the region for their own nuclear energy for peaceful purposes." Prince Saud also criticised Israel, which is widely believed to have the Middle East?s only nuclear arsenal. "The International Atomic Energy Agency standards and measures should apply to all countries in the region without exceptions, including Israel." Earlier, GCC Secretary-General Abdul-Rahman Al Attiyah, who visited the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) last month, said he would brief the meeting about plans to cooperate with the UN nuclear watchdog. In Abu Dhabi, meanwhile, Al Attiyah said the GCC states oppose any attack on Iran over its nuclear programme. "We reject any escalation of the crisis relative to this dossier (that could) lead to a military confrontation that could have negative consequences and lead to catastrophe," the GCC Secretary-General said. "A political solution to the crisis over the Iranian nuclear dossier still has a chance," he said at the start of a conference on Gulf security in Abu Dhabi. GCC member states have in the past voiced concern about an eventual air strike on Iran?s nuclear facilities and the potentially catastrophic environmental consequences. The GCC?s decision to pursue a nuclear programme has raised concerns that Arab states may want to protect themselves if Iran acquires nuclear weapons. Gulf states have expressed concern over Iran?s nuclear programme which the United States says could be aimed at making bombs. Tehran says its programme is peaceful. Gulf states say their nuclear programme will be used for power generation. ------------- Nuclear power not the only thing Alternate Energy has in mind (News Advance) Mar 5 - Its critics call Alternate Energy Holdings Inc. inexperienced. After all, the small Thaxton-based firm has never built a nuclear power plant. The start-up alternative energy firm in Bedford County put a 4,000- acre tract in Idaho under contract in February for $20 million - and plans to build a nuclear power plant there. It also has entered into negotiations with AREVA NP to use its "next- generation" nuclear reactor at the Idaho site. When talking about this, company president and chief executive officer Don Gillispie just sits back and smiles. He realizes his company?s ambitions might seem comparable to a child with big dreams to an outsider. He said his company may be new, it may be small, but it has the skills. The company may not have the experience, he said, but its board does. "I think if you count amongst our board members we?ve built 12 (nuclear) plants," Gillispie said. Former senior executives in the utilities and investment industries founded the alternative energy company. Its current board members include a former vice president of the Nuclear Energy Institute (NEI), a former executive director for operations of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and several former board members of nuclear utility regulator Institute of Nuclear Power Operations. If its ambitious plan succeeds, the firm?s Idaho project would be the first nuclear-generating plant in the United States since the 1970s. According to a company news release, "The proposed plant was originally requested by the Rural River Co-op to assist with local farmers? irrigation needs. "Subject to regulatory approval, AEHI is considering further involvement in the Idaho agricultural community, primarily by using surplus heat from the plant to lower the high cost of producing bioethanol from locally grown grain." Alternate Energy?s board is not alone in its way of thinking. NEI spokesman Mitchell Singer said 19 companies have announced their intention to build a nuclear plant, including Alternate Energy and Amarillo Power in Texas. "If everything moves ahead as we it expect it will, construction on a new plant will start 2012," Singer said. Amarillo Power is the brain child of Amarillo, Texas, developer George Chapman, who is attempting to bring an estimated $5 billion nuclear power plant to that part of the country. Attempts to contact Chapman were unsuccessful. Like Alternate Energy, Amarillo Power has never built a nuclear power plant. Stephanie Coffin, branch manager for the NRC Office of New Reactors, said Amarillo Power is the only company to file with the NRC that isn?t currently operating a nuclear power plant. Alternate Energy is awaiting the geologists report on the Idaho property before it files. `Shocking? alternatives Alternate Energy?s big ideas don?t stop with nuclear power. Like any company, Gillispie said, Alternate Energy has to look at supply and demand. He said utility companies usually have to worry about the supply side. His firm not only wants to make energy available, but efficient as well. The firm has a few projects in the works to make that possible, including lightning harvesting, a fuel additive, a new system to remove carbon dioxide at power plants and a system to convert coal into synthetic natural gas. Benjamin Franklin is credited with harnessing electricity with a kite and a key in a lightning storm. Alternate Energy currently has a patent to do something similar, without its five employees standing in a thunderstorm. Gillispie said a pole with an electric charge will attract currents in the air. It will sit on about 50-acres of open land. The currents would travel down the pole into a series of ground wires where it would be converted into electricity and stored. The average lightning bolt contains approximately one million kilowatts of electrical energy. According to the Department of Energy?s Web site, its not conducting research on the viability of lightning-generated power. Gillispie said he was approached by Israeli native Steve LeRoy about the project. LeRoy had worked on the lightning-harvesting project for 22 years. Gillispie said the Department of Defense offered to purchase the project, but LeRoy turned it down because he thought the department would use the technology as a weapon. Alternate Energy has had success with the prototype on a smaller scale. It even got into a bit of trouble with the Federal Communications Commission because the electrical currents going into the prototype were messing with neighbors? TV reception. "Our plan is to try to get it built (to scale) by this summer," Gillispie said. Another idea in the works is mini reactors. Mini reactors are actually an old concept, Gillispie said. The reactors are just what they sound like - small nuclear reactors that are used to power boats, airplanes and maybe one day the space shuttle. Gillispie said the project is in the preliminary phases right now. His firm is currently working on a container that will hold the mini reactors. --------------- NUCLEAR RACE Incentives, global warming concerns have power companies scrambling to plan new reactors (The Times-Picayune) Mar 4 - At River Bend nuclear power plant in St. Francisville, a crater about the size of two football fields was originally supposed to house the site's second nuclear reactor. The abandoned crater is representative of more than 60 nuclear reactors throughout the United States that were canceled in the 1970s and 1980s because of rising construction costs, a slowdown in energy demand and changing regulations because of a nuclear accident at Three Mile Island near Hershey, Pa. Since then, the nation's 103 nuclear plants have been supplying about 17 percent of the nation's energy. Not a single new reactor has broken ground. But spurred by more than $12 billion in federal incentives, a growing concern about global warming and rising demand for energy, the nuclear industry is undergoing a gold rush of sorts, as companies jockey to be first in line to build a new plant. "We are looking to finance the first movers," said Craig Stevens, press secretary for the federal Department of Energy. "We want to create an environment where nuclear reactors can be built." About 15 companies, including Entergy Nuclear, have announced they are considering building as many as 33 new reactors -- including at Entergy's River Bend plant and its Grand Gulf plant in Port Gibson, Miss., according to the Nuclear Energy Institute. Entergy says such a new plant could be operating in 2015 at the soonest. The companies say nuclear power could bring more fuel diversity to the nation and provide the only large-scale emission free power. "It's critical that nuclear be a part of the climate change calculus," said Jim Owen, a spokesman for the Edison Electric Institute, an electric company trade group. But as the prospect of more nuclear plants comes closer to reality, environmentalists are questioning the economics of building such expensive plants and the rationale of supplanting pollution from fossil fuels with the problems associated with nuclear fuel production and waste. "The environmental footprint of nuclear is phenomenal. It far exceeds any other form of energy generation," said Geoff Fettus, an attorney at the Natural Resources Defense Council. "And putting all of that aside, the economics don't work. We could be doing a lot better things with our money." Because no plants have been built for so long, there is no reliable estimate of how much a new plant will cost, according to the Energy Information Agency. Estimates range from $2.5 billion to more than $8 billion per unit. Spiraling costs As the last round of nuclear plants was being built in the late 1970s and early 1980s, several events came together and ended the development of new nuclear plants for decades. First, initial construction costs for many of the proposed plants were underestimated. Then, following the accident at Three Mile Island in Pennsylvania, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission tightened regulations and standards for nuclear plants, creating even more cost overruns. Advertisement Plants that were initially expected to cost a few hundred million dollars ended up costing a few billion. River Bend was estimated to cost $307 million in 1971. By the time it was finished in 1985, the plant cost $4.4 billion. Additionally, high interest rates doomed some projects. "In the 1970s when construction ended, the most expensive component was the interest on the loan," Stevens said. And predictions of rising demand for electricity turned out to be false, limiting the need for new sources. Those financial and regulatory obstacles had to be overcome to encourage the development of new nuclear plants. The Department of Energy tackled one of those issues in 2003 when it offered to pay 50 percent of the $50 million to $90 million cost of licensing to groups that were willing to try out the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's new, streamlined licensing process. Previously, companies had to apply to the commission for a license to construct a plant. When construction was completed, they had to return to the commission to obtain a license to operate the plant. The two-phase licensing gave critics more opportunity to oppose the project, ultimately slowing it down, Stevens said. A consortium of companies called NuStart Energy, whose members include Entergy Nuclear, Exelon Generation, FP&L, General Electric and Westinghouse, took advantage of the Energy Department's offer and are applying to obtain combined construction and operating licenses for new reactors at Grand Gulf in Mississippi and at Bellefonte in Alabama, which is owned by the Tennessee Valley Authority. NuStart plans to submit its construction and operating licenses this year. Once the licenses are obtained, NuStart will turn the process over to the reactor's owners. Entergy says it hasn't made a decision on whether it will build a plant, but it wants to have the option to do so, said Randy Hutchinson, senior vice president of development for Entergy Nuclear Inc. "It's a serious phase to preserve the nuclear option," he said. The Department of Energy also has offered risk insurance to the first six nuclear reactors to break ground. The first two companies to start construction will be eligible for as much as $500 million in insurance to hedge against bureaucratic and legal delays, and the next four will receive $250 million. The first six companies will also receive tax credits of as much as 1.6 cents per hour for new power generation. The government is also offering loan guarantees to companies that apply for them. Nuclear industry critics say if nuclear were a good investment, the companies would be building the plants on their own, without taxpayer underwriting. "This is an astronomical amount of money that is being used to subsidize a mature polluting industry," Fettus said. A spokeswoman for the Nuclear Energy Institute said the industry is asking help to get the new plants off the ground. "What the industry seeks from Congress is limited investment in a limited number of new plants for a limited time," Melanie Lyons said. Uniform construction In addition to the incentives and regulatory changes, the way the reactors will be designed and built has changed dramatically, company executives said. For instance, during the last generation of nuclear plants, reactors were designed as they were constructed, and each was unique. The new generation of nuclear plants will be standard throughout the industry and will be largely designed before construction begins, Hutchinson said. Those designs also will contain fewer pieces of equipment and will be "passive safe," meaning that they will be safer to operate and maintain and will automatically shut down in case of an accident, said Garry Young, who is handling the licensing process for the proposed reactor at River Bend. Paul Gunter of the Reactor Watchdog Project said that in the companies' efforts to reduce costs, the new round of plants will be less safe, and "profit margins are pitted against safety and security." Experts in the field Entergy would try to avoid cost overruns by putting one contractor, General Electric, in charge of the project. Previously, the company managed several different contractors. We'll sign one contract. We will be dealing with one person with accountability to get the job done on budget and on schedule," Hutchinson said. Another advantage comes into play for Entergy: its experience in the nuclear field. The company is the second-largest nuclear operator in the nation behind Exelon. The company had reactors in Louisiana, Arkansas and Mississippi in 1998, when it decided to expand its reach and make nuclear a "core" business. "At that time, when most utilities wanted to divest their nuclear units, Entergy Nuclear knew that the 103 nuclear plants across the nation had unrealized value and potential that could be tapped by a knowledgeable, experienced nuclear operator," said Diane Park, a spokeswoman for Entergy's nuclear business development unit. Since then, Entergy has acquired five more reactors. It is preparing to close on a sixth reactor in Michigan. It also operates a plant in Nebraska. "It's a very big part of our business today, and we see that more and more going forward," Hutchinson said. Nuclear amounts to 30 percent of Entergy's power capacity but closer to 50 percent of its actual generation, he said. The company's experience in the nuclear field allows the company to operate plants more efficiently and with economies of scale, Park said. Lately, the nuclear division has proven to be a strong revenue stream as the demand for nuclear power has risen because of higher fossil fuel prices. In 2006, Entergy Nuclear earned $309.5 million, compared to $282.6 million in 2005, largely because of higher contract pricing and higher generation, according to the company. No greenhouse gases Nuclear power has come to the forefront in recent years as a potential solution to global warming. Demand for power is growing, as is pressure on the energy industry to reduce carbon dioxide emissions. "Nuclear is the only large base-load power supply that doesn't emit greenhouse gases," Hutchinson said. The industry has even adopted the slogan "Go Nuclear: Because you care about the air." If Congress taxes carbon dioxide-producing fossil fuels, nuclear power, which wouldn't be taxed, could become a very affordable option for electricity. "Such a tax would further encourage nuclear development from a cost standpoint," Hutchinson said. Based on the long time and expense it takes to build a nuclear plant, Fettus said, Congress should be encouraging other forms of emission- free energy, such as wind and solar. "Nuclear has the longest cost and the longest time frame," Fettus said. "We have a short and limited time frame" in which to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Waste concerns Although many of the stumbling blocks for new nuclear plants have been overcome with new incentives and changes in regulations, the question of what to do with the nuclear fuel once it's used is still problematic. "There is the long-term cost of nuclear waste," Gunter said. "The future generation won't get one watt but will have to deal with this waste." Federal law requires that the Department of Energy locate and operate a repository for nuclear waste, and in 2002, 20 years after the law was passed, Congress agreed that Yucca Mountain in Nevada would be that site. The Energy Department has said it will open the repository in 2017. But questions about the site's suitability persist. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has said he will continue to work to block completion of the project. He told United Press International in December that "Yucca Mountain is dead. It'll never happen." Until Yucca Mountain or another repository begins taking the nuclear waste, companies must store the nuclear waste on-site. At River Bend, huge concrete casks are being built to store nuclear waste. Each cask costs $2 million to $3 million each, said Randy King, director of nuclear safety assurance at River Bend. Those costs are passed on to customers. Future unclear It's anyone's guess as to how many new nuclear reactors will be built or when. The Nuclear Energy Institute says it's too early to even speculate. Entergy hasn't decided whether it will build any reactors, including the two it has proposed. "We clearly have not made a decision to build at this time," Hutchinson said. "It's clear that we are going to have to add base load. It's clear that it will be nuclear or coal or clean coal." Hutchinson and Owen of the Edison Electric Institute say that even if new nuclear plants are built, it won't be the only new source of electricity needed. James Hewlett, an analyst at the Department of Energy's Energy Information Agency, has been watching the nuclear industry for 20 years. He said the resurgence of nuclear should have been anticipated. "Once you had an administration that is pro-nuclear -- combine that with global warming and it's not surprising. I'm just surprised it's happened this quick." ---------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From sjd at swcp.com Mon Mar 5 19:52:23 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:52:23 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <223925.87069.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304192538.009ed130@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070305183224.009f1120@mail.swcp.com> March 5 John -- With respect to the love affair, I believe historians would say that FDR had a rather high view of Stalin. "Love affair" might be a bit hyperbolic. One of my favorite expressions is "words only mean what they are defined to mean." How does one define "isolationism"? I believe this word is a pejorative, and I prefer to use the phrase "minding our own business." I'm certain there was plenty of trade and travel between the US and the European countries after WWI, and I would not call that isolationism. Someone once made the trenchant observation that there would be peace on earth when the governments of the world had as little to do with each other as possible, and the people of the world had as much to do with each other as they freely chose to have. One of the chief difference between Communism and Fascism/Nazism is that the former has always been an explicitly international movement and the latter have always been national movements. We can easily dispense with Mussolini by pointing out that all he wanted was to be in charge in Italy and have one or two African colonies as a way of impressing someone -- perhaps merely himself. According to the historiography I have read about Hitler, he had some grandiose schemes about conquering the USSR, however his plans for what to do with it were vague at best. Even his alliance with Japan is suspect, for it seems that AH viewed the Japanese as being something less than human. They certainly were not Aryans. In general terms I am familiar with Lend-Lease, and before the US declared war on the Axis Powers L-L was a means of fighting the Reich by proxy. Stalin wanted a second front to relieve the pressure from the West. Nazi Germany never attacked the US despite Roosevelt's provocations, and I cannot justify our waging war against it. Of course the link, or justification, was the Japanese treaty with Germany, but I think that is a rather weak rationale for going to war with a nation that posed no threat to us. Historians tell us that AH knew he could never beat the US, and that is why he never took FDR up on his provocations. Steve At 09:48 AM 3/5/07 -0800, John Jacobus wrote: >Steve, >I don't think there was any "love affair" between FDR >and Stalin. After WWI there was a powerful >isolationist movement in this country. Our entry into >WWII was delayed by the "America First" movement, a >member of which was the American hero Charles >Lindbergh. >http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/americafirst.html > >Also, there was fear of the rise Communism. And who >better to fight the Communist that the Facists? > >Even before the US entered the European front, we had >arrangements with Britain, e.g., Lend-Lease policy. >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease > >At the outset of our involvement, Stalin pushed for a >second front. Instead the US and Britain push through >North Africa, into the Mediterranian. Basically, the >Soviet Union breed the Nazis with their own soldiers >and citizens until we finally invaded Normandy. > >--- Steven Dapra wrote: > > > March 4 > > > > Are we proud we exercised restraint and > > allowed tens of millions > > to be killed by Communism in the USSR and Red China? > > No. Instead > > Roosevelt fawned and simpered over Stalin and FDR > > shoved through diplomatic > > relations with "Uncle Joe." Stalin's mass homicides > > and his show trials in > > the 1930s didn't interfere with FDR's love affair > > with Stalin, nor did they > > interfere with the same love affair of domestic > > left-wing extremists (who > > were so violently anti-fascist). > > > > In order of death toll, Mao Tse-tung was > > worst, followed by > > Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, and (probably) Pol Pot. > > > > Funny isn't it, how we continue to maintain > > diplomatic relations > > withour "ungrateful European friends." > > > > Steven Dapra [edit] From sjd at swcp.com Mon Mar 5 21:18:32 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 20:18:32 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Stephen Dapra's Comments In-Reply-To: <003e01c75f51$a11de870$d5a290c6@LAPTOP2> References: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070305192831.009f09f0@mail.swcp.com> March 5 At 01:10 PM 3/5/07 -0500, Shawn Hughes \(Road2\) wrote: Stephen; [sic] I'm not going to play 'cut and paste' commando with you. You seem passionate about foisting your opinion, no matter how liberal or revisionistic it may be upon the rest of us. <> I, and many others like me disagree. <> For instance: "Since the inception of Homeland Security/TSA I have read many stories in the popular press about their heavy-handed and tyrannical Behavior" I am trying to recall.... What do we call those that label a race or group of people after making a snap judgement using a few observations? Oh - and 'many stories'. How many is many? Especially considering over 600 MILLION people flew in just US domestic flights last year. But, I am certain you'll have many witty anecdotes that perfectly dovetail your position to refute anything I say. Bravo! <> Anyway, you are welcome to keep your position and point of view. Absolutely none of this has to do with radiation protection. I have zero interest in turning this list into alt.theorys.speculation.world.politics because I have been very tired of hearing the others argue, so it seems wrong of me to perpetuate it. I responded only because I didn't want you to think your blinding insight silenced me. ;) -Shawn <> May I point out that you made no attempt to address any of the factual claims I made in my message below? All you did was hurl insults and objurgations. In your initial message you described yourself as "a person peripherially [sic] in the Homeland Security Field". If you have this much anger and defensiveness as someone on the periphery, I would hate to meet someone who is in the middle of homeland security. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com Steven Dapra wrote: March 4 Since the inception of Homeland Security/TSA I have read many stories in the popular press about their heavy-handed and tyrannical behavior, their bullying of passengers, pawing the heads of six-year-old girls (feeling for shoe bombs I suppose), and so forth. The aged and wheel-chair-bound mother-in-law of a personal friend of mine has been forced to partially undress by HS/TSA "inspectors" (or whatever sanitized label someone wants to use) before she is allowed on an airplane. I read a report of a passenger with metal in his body from surgical repairs who took x-rays with him to the airport and tried to show the "inspectors" the x-rays. The "inspectors" REFUSED to look at them. It's a long list of bad behavior. Shawn Hughes (SH) (see his complete message below) wrote: "Those of you that think 'leaving them alone abroad' or similar pap are very, very ignorant of the past 100 years of terrorism." This is false. I am not thinking "pap" and I am not "very, very ignorant" of 100 years of terrorism. (SH:) "Remaining silent and impartial about events in SouthWest Asia makes as much sense as the US staying out of WWII." You appear to be "very, very ignorant" of events leading up to US entry into WWII. Even establishment historians agree that the Roosevelt administration diligently tried to induce the Third Reich to attack the United States. They also acknowledge that FDR hounded and badgered Japan, behavior that led to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt's foreign policy got the US into World War II. SW Asia is well outside of our sphere of interest, plus our meddling is the cause of many of the "events" there. Since you are so hot to meddle, did you remain "silent and impartial" when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1979? The reason this "slowly coalescing group of people" wants to kill us is because we keep sticking our national nose in their business. If we go around sticking our nose in their business long enough we are going to get punched it that nose, and that is what happened on September 11. (Try reading Pape's book like I suggested.) Ireland and Botswana (and all other nations) are best qualified to solve their internal problems. We can't even stop drunk drivers, child molesters, and drug dealers in the US of A. What business do we have telling anyone else what to do? I don't think there is any "lack of interest in security on this forum" (i.e. RADSAFE). There are some differences about how to provide security, as well as some differences about the underlying reasons for our current predicament with airplane hijackers, explosive-laden human bombers, and suicide truck bombers. I reiterate emphatically that minding everyone's business but our own is guaranteed to get us more of the same. I'll go further and say people who believe in night stick, Taser, and gun barrel security are getting, (or already have) a case of tunnel vision that says security consists of bully-ragging people, ignoring their x-rays, threatening them, or dragging them off in handcuffs. A lot of this so-called security consists of shoving people around, and of treating the symptoms instead of the disease. END From sjd at swcp.com Mon Mar 5 21:19:22 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 20:19:22 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <995653.77922.qm@web60217.mail.yahoo.com> References: <223925.87069.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070305194222.009faca0@mail.swcp.com> March 5 Who was the Soviet agent at Malta -- oops -- did you mean Yalta? I knew about the National Socialist acronym. That "Soviet" DC-3 may have been one that was reverse engineered from some US planes that were forced to land in Siberia. (Forced by bad weather and lack of fuel for the return trip to a US-controlled base.) Stalin refused to return the planes -- in effect he stole them. I don't know what happened to the crews. I also cannot remember where I read about this. Steven Dapra At 04:20 PM 3/5/07 -0800, Raymond A Hoover wrote: >Actually, Roosevelt had a number of Soviet agents on his staff (the U.S. >didn't know it at the time of course). In point of fact Rossevelt's chief >adviser at the Malta conference was a Soviet agent. Stalin knew more >about the Manhatten Project than Truman did when he took over from Roosevelt. > >Let me also point out that the Soviets and the Nazis (bet you didn't know >that Nazi is an acronym for National Socialst, i.e. the Nazis were >socialists) had more than one agreement during the inter war period. The >Soviets provided training areas for the German army in exchange for >advanced training, the Ribbentrop-Molotov agreement that partitioned >Poland are two examples). > >While it is true that Stalin was constantly asking for a second front, the >West hadn't abandoned him. The U.S. provided a great deal of assistance >the Soviets that allowed them to continue fighting. As one example when I >was in Kiev I toured a War Museum. In one corner of the museum there sat >a DC-3. The sign on the walkway said it was a Soviet plane. It was >either a copy of some of the U.S. support. The U.S. gave the Soviets lots >of infrastructure support (vehicles, food, medicine, etc). most of which >was never aknowledged by the Soviets. > >None of this is related to adiation stuff of course. > >John Jacobus wrote: >Steve, >I don't think there was any "love affair" between FDR >and Stalin. After WWI there was a powerful >isolationist movement in this country. Our entry into >WWII was delayed by the "America First" movement, a >member of which was the American hero Charles >Lindbergh. >http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/americafirst.html >Also, there was fear of the rise Communism. And who >better to fight the Communist that the Facists? >Even before the US entered the European front, we had >arrangements with Britain, e.g., Lend-Lease policy. >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease >At the outset of our involvement, Stalin pushed for a >second front. Instead the US and Britain push through >North Africa, into the Mediterranian. Basically, the >Soviet Union breed the Nazis with their own soldiers >and citizens until we finally invaded Normandy. >--- Steven Dapra wrote: >Rest deleted. > > >Want to start your own business? Learn how on >Yahoo! >Small Business. From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 6 00:16:00 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 22:16:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Nonsense title, but an interesting article... Message-ID: <125560.64819.qm@web81611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Public release date: 6-Mar-2007 Contact: Dr. Douglas Tincello dgt4 at le.ac.uk 1-162-588-391 University of Leicester Pioneering research into health benefits of beauty treatment A test recently used by the UK government?s Independent Depleted Uranium Oversight Board to detect exposure to UK troops by depleted uranium (DU) during the 1991 Gulf Conflict was developed by a team led by a University of Leicester geologist. Randall Parrish, Professor of Isotope Geology, developed the test with Postdoctoral Fellow Dr Axel Gerdes, who now works at the University of Frankfurt, Germany, and his colleague Matt Horstwood at the British Geological Survey, using advanced mass spectrometry. Prof Parrish?s team has tested more than 350 individuals as part of the programme, with the result that none so far tested had any demonstrable DU exposure resulting from their participation in the 1991 Gulf Conflict, though the extent of actual initial exposure of tested individuals to DU is unknown. Depleted uranium (DU) is a by-product from the manufacture of enriched uranium, used for fuel in nuclear reactors or in weapons. It is 60 per cent as radioactive as natural uranium. Because of its hardness, it has been used in engineering projects, as well as in the construction of military tanks and anti-tank weapons, such as those used in the 1991 Gulf War, in Bosnia in 1994-5, Kosovo in 1999 and in the latest conflict in Iraq. While DU weapons can reduce casualties amongst the forces using them, there may be long-term risks to the health of those exposed to them, either through shrapnel wounds or inhalation, and risks, also, to the environment. The test was designed to detect after 15 years even a modest exposure to DU, on the basis of accepted knowledge about the retention and solubility of DU in the human body. The test is applicable even to those who excrete extremely low levels of uranium in urine. Professor Parrish?s and his colleagues? work, undertaken to help in the planning of the UK DU testing programme, explored the sensitivity and accuracy of urine tests to measure uranium concentrations and isotope ratios. The testing programme was set up in 2001, to investigate concerns amongst UK Service personnel from the Balkans and the 1991 Gulf War, following media coverage about Depleted Uranium. Professor Parrish commented: ?Dr Gerdes and I continue to collaborate on this test, which is by far the most sensitive and accurate of all uranium isotope test for urine worldwide. It uses multiple isotopes to ascertain the extent of contamination. ?Our facility has used this test in the monitoring of more than 400 UK veterans of the 1991 Gulf War, under the testing programme administered by the Depleted Uranium Oversight Board over the past two and a half years ? a testing programme that is nearly finished.? ### --------------------------------- Roy Herren --------------------------------- Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 6 00:18:51 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 22:18:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Apparently the same article from a day earlier with a title that make sense Message-ID: <838953.71614.qm@web81610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Public release date: 5-Mar-2007 Contact: Randall Parrish rrp at nigl.nerc.ac.uk 01-159-363-427 University of Leicester Tests to reveal levels of depleted uranium in Army personnel A test recently used by the UK government?s Independent Depleted Uranium Oversight Board to detect exposure to UK troops by depleted uranium (DU) during the 1991 Gulf Conflict was developed by a team led by a University of Leicester geologist. Randall Parrish, Professor of Isotope Geology, developed the test with Postdoctoral Fellow Dr Axel Gerdes, who now works at the University of Frankfurt, Germany, and his colleague Matt Horstwood at the British Geological Survey, using advanced mass spectrometry. Prof Parrish?s team has tested more than 350 individuals as part of the programme, with the result that none so far tested had any demonstrable DU exposure resulting from their participation in the 1991 Gulf Conflict, though the extent of actual initial exposure of tested individuals to DU is unknown. Depleted uranium (DU) is a by-product from the manufacture of enriched uranium, used for fuel in nuclear reactors or in weapons. It is 60 per cent as radioactive as natural uranium. Because of its hardness, it has been used in engineering projects, as well as in the construction of military tanks and anti-tank weapons, such as those used in the 1991 Gulf War, in Bosnia in 1994-5, Kosovo in 1999 and in the latest conflict in Iraq. While DU weapons can reduce casualties amongst the forces using them, there may be long-term risks to the health of those exposed to them, either through shrapnel wounds or inhalation, and risks, also, to the environment. The test was designed to detect after 15 years even a modest exposure to DU, on the basis of accepted knowledge about the retention and solubility of DU in the human body. The test is applicable even to those who excrete extremely low levels of uranium in urine. Professor Parrish?s and his colleagues? work, undertaken to help in the planning of the UK DU testing programme, explored the sensitivity and accuracy of urine tests to measure uranium concentrations and isotope ratios. The testing programme was set up in 2001, to investigate concerns amongst UK Service personnel from the Balkans and the 1991 Gulf War, following media coverage about Depleted Uranium. Professor Parrish commented: "Dr Gerdes and I continue to collaborate on this test, which is by far the most sensitive and accurate of all uranium isotope test for urine worldwide. It uses multiple isotopes to ascertain the extent of contamination. "Our facility has used this test in the monitoring of more than 400 UK veterans of the 1991 Gulf War, under the testing programme administered by the Depleted Uranium Oversight Board over the past two and a half years ? a testing programme that is nearly finished." ### --------------------------------- Roy Herren --------------------------------- Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. From robert.atkinson at genetix.com Tue Mar 6 03:04:48 2007 From: robert.atkinson at genetix.com (Robert Atkinson) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 09:04:48 -0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net><2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5E4@gdses.corp.gds.com> <3F9210628ADD1D44949E7FD0841A6B2B6CE16E@NTS-VPO1-WS.NTS.OPS> Message-ID: <260B27D627B0C84E864BAC459B702555061BBE@exch01.GENETIX.LOCAL> Hi, The lack of knowledge and support for older equipment is a concern. The bean counters would like to think that the customer has to buy one of their new instruments if they stop supporting the old ones. In actual fact a lot of users may not have funds immediately available to do this and struggle on. Come the time when they do have the budget for new equipment they may remember the support (or lack of it) and go elsewhere. I had a case with a "Thermo" instrument (non nuclear), made before the original manufacturer was bought out, last year. Thermo were happy to quote for a service call but inquiries indicated that they actually knew nothing abut this particular model and would not have been able to fix it. It looks identical to the current model (same model number) but the internals are completely different. They were happy to suggest we bought a new controller even though they did not have any firmware for it! An inadvertent command up its RS232 port had upset its firmware. Fortunately a bit of detective work located some old utility's (non Windoze) for a different instrument that used the same controller. Some work with these sorted the problem. Some companies are trying to improve the situation. Agilent (formerly Hewlett Packard) are actively making manuals and documentation for older instruments available. This includes putting them on their own website and allowing other websites to freely distribute information on older units. Ludlum are a great company with well engineered products and good support. Let's hope they don't get bought up by Thermo or another big group. Robert. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Flood, John Sent: 06 March 2007 00:20 To: Sandy Perle; J. Marshall Reber; radsafelist Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era It is my understanding that much design and manufacturing is moving from Santa Fe to Ohio, while calibration and repair will go to South Carolina as stated earlier. Some of the instruments come from the German part of the Thermo empire, which has its own design & production, and that will continue. How many of the Santa Fe workforce will end up with a Thermo job elsewhere, and how many will be laid off I couldn't even guess. Bob Flood Nevada Test Site -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 1:09 PM To: 'J. Marshall Reber'; 'radsafelist' Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era Are you sure that these operations aren't being consolidated in their new manufacturing facility located in Oakbrook, OH? Thermo employees do monitor this list, so we might get some more details regarding this. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of J. Marshall Reber Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:40 AM To: radsafelist Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ -------------------------------------------------------- Genetix Limited - Queensway, New Milton, Hampshire, BH25 5NN Registered in England No. 2660050 www.genetix.com Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily Genetix Ltd (Genetix) or any company associated with it. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify Genetix by telephone on +44 (0)1425 624600. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. This mail and any attachments have been scanned for viruses prior to leaving Genetix network. Genetix will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages as a result of any virus being passed on, or arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party. -------------------------------------------------------- From Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk Tue Mar 6 05:27:24 2007 From: Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk (Dawson, Fred Mr) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 11:27:24 -0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] HPA PRESS RELEASE Polonium-210 as a Poison Message-ID: >From the HPA:- For your information the following Press Release will be published on our website this morning. Press Office (Centre for Radiation, Chemical and Environmental Hazards) Health Protection Agency Chilton Didcot Oxfordshire OX11 0RQ Telephone: (01235) 822744/5 Fax: (01235) 822746 Email: chilton.pressoffice at hpa.org.uk Website: http://www.hpa.org.uk PRESS RELEASE Polonium-210 as a Poison The Health Protection Agency's radiation protection experts together with colleagues from research laboratories in the USA have published a paper in the Journal of Radiological Protection1 on how polonium-210 acts as a poison in the body. Although the unfortunate death of Mr Litvinenko in London last year stimulated this work, the paper does not examine the particular circumstances of his death. Instead the authors review published scientific evidence accumulated over decades about the biological behaviour of polonium-210 and its deleterious effects at high doses, and they estimate how much would have to be consumed to give a lethal dose. The authors conclude that polonium-210 ingestion of 1-3 GBq or more is likely to lead to death within a few weeks, assuming 10% absorption to blood (0.1 - 0.3 GBq). On reaching the bloodstream, it would be rapidly deposited in major organs and tissues including the liver, kidneys and bone marrow. The intense alpha radiation within these tissues would result in massive destruction of living cells, leading to a rapid decline in health. Anyone receiving such doses would show symptoms of acute radiation sickness syndrome, and death would eventually result from multiple organ failure. Remedial medical treatment strategies are unlikely to be successful once significant amounts of polonium-210 have entered the blood stream and deposited in tissues, within a few hours of ingestion. This conclusion arises primarily from an expert assessment of available experimental data, supported by human data on the biological behaviour of polonium-210 and on effects of external radiation. There is only limited information on effects of polonium-210 in humans; the data from the Litvinenko case are not currently available because they are part of a criminal investigation. Dr Roger Cox, Director of the Agency's Centre for Radiation, Chemical and Environmental Hazards said, "The tragic death of Mr Litvinenko in London brought the attention of the world to polonium-210. Although it is widespread in the environment in minute quantities and is familiar to most radiation scientists, the use of polonium-210 as a poison is unprecedented in our experience. This paper is an expert review of the available scientific data on polonium-210 and estimates what is a lethal quantity". Press enquiries: telephone (01235) 822744, (01235) 822745 or (01235) 822737 Reference 1 J Harrison, R Leggett, D Lloyd, A Phipps and B Scott (2007). Polonium-210 as a Poison. J. Radiol. Prot. 27 pp 17-40. Abstract available on line at http://www.iop..org/EJ/abstract/0952-4746/27/1/001 Notes for Editors 1. The paper is accompanied by an editorial entitled, "The Polonium-210 Poisoning in London" by Dr John Stather, a Deputy Director of CRCE. This describes some of the public health and radiation protection measures that had to be instigated by the Health Protection Agency following the discovery that Mr Litvinenko's death was due to Po-210 poisoning http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0952-4746/27/1/E02. For more information on the measures taken see the updates on the HPA website at http://www.hpa.org.uk 2. The Journal of Radiological Protection is published by Institute of Physics Publishing (see http://www.iop.org/) and is the house journal of the UK's Society for Radiological Protection (see http://www.srp-uk.org/). The SRP was founded in 1963 and is the Scientific Society in the UK that covers the whole field of radiological protection. It has nearly 2000 national and international members, who are professionally concerned with safety aspects of the use of ionising and non-ionising radiation in education, central and local government, industry, medicine and research. 3. The Institute of Physics is a scientific membership organisation devoted to increasing the understanding and application of physics. It has an extensive worldwide membership (currently over 35,000) and is a leading communicator of physics with all audiences from specialists through government to the general public. Its publishing company, IOP Publishing, is a world leader in scientific publishing and the electronic dissemination of physics. Fred Dawson Fwp_dawsonathotmail.com From maurysis at peoplepc.com Tue Mar 6 06:16:38 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 06:16:38 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] DU Study; Serious Health Risks Not Found Message-ID: <45ED5BA6.1090602@peoplepc.com> Source: Sandia National Laboratories Date: July 24, 2005 More on: Weapons Technology , Nuclear Energy , Physics , Vehicles , Biometric , Nanotechnology Sandia Completes Depleted Uranium Study; Serious Health Risks Not Found Science Daily ? ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- Sandia National Laboratories has completed a two-year study of the potential health effects associated with accidental exposure to depleted uranium (DU) during the 1991 Gulf War. The study, "An Analysis of Uranium Dispersal and Health Effects Using a Gulf War Case Study," performed by Sandia scientist Al Marshall, employs analytical capabilities used by Sandia's National Security Studies Department and examines health risks associated with uranium handling. U.S. and British forces used DU in armor-piercing penetrator bullets to disable enemy tanks during the Gulf and Balkan wars. DU is a byproduct of the process used to enrich uranium for use in nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons. During the enrichment process, the fraction of one type of uranium (uranium-235) is increased relative to the fraction found in natural uranium. As a consequence, the uranium left over after the enrichment process (mostly uranium-238) is depleted in uranium-235 and is called depleted uranium. The high density, low cost, and other properties of DU make it an attractive choice as an anti-tank weapon. However, on impact, DU particulate is dispersed in the surrounding air both within and outside the targeted vehicle and suspended particulate may be inhaled or ingested. Concerns have been raised that exposure to uranium particulate could have serious health problems including leukemia, cancers, and neurocognitive effects, as well as birth defects in the progeny of exposed veterans and civilians. Marshall's study concluded that the reports of serious health risks from DU exposure are not supported by veteran medical statistics nor supported by his analysis. Only a few U.S. veterans in vehicles accidentally struck by DU munitions are predicted to have inhaled sufficient quantities of DU particulate to incur any significant health risk. For these individuals, DU-related risks include the possibility of temporary kidney damage and about a 1 percent chance of fatal cancer. Several earlier studies were carried out by the U.S. Department of Defense, by University Professors Fetter (University of Maryland) and von Hippel (Princeton), and by an Army sponsored team from Pacific Northwest National Laboratories and Los Alamos National Laboratory. The conclusions from the Sandia study are consistent with these earlier studies. The Sandia study, however, also includes an analysis of potential health effects of DU fragments embedded as shrapnel in the bodies of some U.S. veterans. The Sandia study also looked at civilian exposures in greater detail, examined the potential risk of DU-induced birth defects in the children of exposed individuals, and provided a more detailed analysis of the dispersion of DU following impact with a number of targeted vehicles. ### For a full copy of the report, download the following pdf file from http://www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-releases/2005/def-nonprolif-sec/snl-dusand.pdf : "An Analysis of Uranium Dispersal and Health Effects Using a Gulf War Case Study" Sandia is a multiprogram laboratory operated by Sandia Corporation, a Lockheed Martin company, for the U.S. Department of Energy's National Nuclear Security Administration. With main facilities in Albuquerque, N.M., and Livermore, Calif., Sandia has major R&D responsibilities in national security, energy and environmental technologies, and economic competitiveness. Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by Sandia National Laboratories. From sandyfl at cox.net Tue Mar 6 10:33:18 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 08:33:18 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Poll to decide nuclear Message-ID: Index: *Poll to decide nuclear *Translation error said to have led to hospital deaths *Toshiba in talks on power plant business in India *Rann wants state referendum on nuclear power *Duke Energy and Government - Agreement on Used Nuclear Fuel Storage Costs *Nuclear Council Presents Recommendations to DOE *Thorium Power Reaches Major Milestone in Testing of Its Proprietary Nuclear Fuel *Next Austrian-Czech border blockade over Temelin on March 14 *U.S. working to develop new nuke detectors *Gamma Ray Blast May Help Huntington's Disease Therapy ------------------------------------------ Poll to decide nuclear (Adelaide Now) Mar 7 - ANY plans to build a nuclear power plant in South Australia will automatically go to a state referendum under laws planned by the State Government. Premier Mike Rann told Parliament yesterday the referendum would be triggered automatically should any federal government try to override SA's ban on nuclear power plants. To save costs, the referendum would be held in conjunction with the state election which fell closest to any federal move. "I believe this is an issue of such significance and controversy that the people should be given a direct say in whether they want them built in SA," Mr Rann said. "At present, federal laws prevent nuclear power stations being built in Australia. We are currently looking at the feasibility of backing that up with SA legislation." Mr Rann said Prime Minister John Howard was becoming a champion of domestic nuclear power generation and his government was actively promoting the idea of overturning laws to allow their establishment in Australia. It was revealed late last month that a consortium headed by former Economic Development Board chairman Robert Champion de Crespigny, former Western Mining chief Hugh Morgan, and businessman Ron Walker was examining options for nuclear power generation in Australia. The move sparked an uproar in federal Parliament and outrage at a state level. ------------------------ Translation error said to have led to hospital deaths Nancy, France Mar 6 - An error in translating English instructions for the use of software probably led to the deaths by an overdose of X-ray radiation of four patients at a French hospital, the head of the Regional Agency for Hospitalization in the region of Lorraine said Tuesday. "The problem did not originate with the technicians or with the software, but with the interpretation and the transmission of the software," Antoine Perrin told journalists in the eastern French city of Nancy after a French government report severely criticized staff at the hospital at Epinal. On Tuesday, French Health Minister Xavier Bertrand said action would be taken against individuals as a result of the errors, which occurred between May 6, 2004, and August 1, 2005, in the treatment of 23 men suffering from prostate cancer. The deaths of three of the four patients who passed away were linked to the error, Bertrand said. According to the government report, the other 19 patients suffered complications of varying severity as a result of the overdose. ---------------- Toshiba in talks on power plant business in India TOKYO (AFP) - Japanese giant Toshiba Corp. said Tuesday it was in talks with India's Larsen and Toubro Ltd. to enter the coal-fired power plant business in the growing South Asian economy. The proposed venture would jointly produce and sell equipment for the plants. "We are in negotiations with L and T to form a joint venture to launch coal-fired power plant businesses in India," said Toshiba spokeswoman Hiroko Mochida. "If concluded, it will be our company's first step to begin such businesses in the country," Mochida said, adding that further details of the project are still under negotiations. The Nikkei business daily said Larsen and Toubro would likely take a majority stake in the joint venture, which will spend some 20 billion yen (173 million dollars) to build plants for steam turbines and power generators. The new venture aims at annual sales of 20 billion yen in five years, the newspaper said. Toshiba, best known internationally for its electronics, has been expanding its power business. Last year it acquired US nuclear power plant maker Westinghouse for 5.4 billion dollars in one of the biggest Japanese acquisitions overseas in years. ------------------ Rann wants state referendum on nuclear power The South Australian Premier, Mike Rann, wants a state referendum on nuclear power if the Federal Government moves to override state bans on nuclear power plants. He says the state needs legislation to trigger a referendum because the Federal Government is promoting the idea of allowing nuclear power plants to be built in Australia. Mr Rann says federal laws currently ban nuclear power plants being built in Australia, and he says state legislation is needed to reinforce the ban in South Australia. The Greens say they will introduce legislation in an effort to end any uncertainty over the possibility of a nuclear power plant being built in South Australia. Greens MLC Mark Parnell says the Mr Rann has done a backflip by announcing he wants a referendum on the issue. Last week Mr Rann ruled out a nuclear plant ever being built in South Australia under a Labor Government or while he was Premier. Mr Parnell says the Premier's choice for a referendum has raised doubt and uncertainty over his previous pledge. -------------- Duke Energy and Federal Government Reach Agreement on Used Nuclear Fuel Storage Costs CHARLOTTE, N.C., March 6 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Duke Energy (Nachrichten) Carolinas and the U.S. Department of Justice have reached a settlement resolving Duke Energy's used nuclear fuel litigation against the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE). The agreement provides for an initial payment to Duke Energy of approximately $56 million for certain storage costs incurred through July 31, 2005, with additional amounts reimbursed annually for future storage costs. In 1983, Duke Energy entered into a contract with the DOE which provided for the removal of used fuel from nuclear power reactor sites beginning in 1998. Because the federal government did not begin used fuel removal in 1998, Duke Energy has incurred higher used fuel storage costs at the Duke Energy- operated Oconee, McGuire and Catawba nuclear stations. Under this settlement, the government will reimburse Duke Energy for qualifying storage costs from the U.S. Treasury's Judgment Fund. "This agreement is an important positive step for our company and the federal government," said Brew Barron, Duke Energy chief nuclear officer. "It clarifies specific costs the DOE will pay associated with the delay in meeting its obligation for used fuel disposal. This ensures our ratepayers and shareholders do not bear the full financial burden of these delays." In the near-term, Duke Energy will continue the safe and secure storage of used fuel at these nuclear plant sites. As a longer-term solution, Duke Energy continues to support the government's efforts to fulfill its obligation to accept used nuclear fuel. Duke Energy Corp., one of the largest electric power companies in the United States, supplies and delivers energy to approximately 3.9 million U.S. customers. The company has nearly 37,000 megawatts of electric generating capacity in the Midwest and the Carolinas, and natural gas distribution services in Ohio and Kentucky. In addition, Duke Energy has more than 4,000 megawatts of electric generation in Latin America, and is a joint-venture partner in a U.S. real estate company. Duke Energy's Carolinas operations include nuclear, coal-fired, natural gas and hydroelectric generation. That diverse fuel mix provides nearly 21,000 megawatts of safe, reliable and competitively priced electricity to more than 2.2 million electric customers in a 22,000-square-mile service area of North Carolina and South Carolina. ----------------- Nuclear Council Presents Recommendations to DOE WASHINGTON, March 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Industry leaders representing the American Council on Global Nuclear Competitiveness met with U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) Secretary Samuel W. Bodman to discuss a series of recommendations that would restore America as a leader in nuclear energy design, manufacturing, service and supply. Companies represented at the meeting included ATK, ConverDyn, EnergySolutions, General Atomics, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, USEC Inc. and Westinghouse. Council representatives commended DOE and the administration for their ongoing commitment to nuclear energy and urged them to take steps to restore the competitive position of the U.S. nuclear design, manufacturing, service and supply industry. "As our need for energy will increase, so too does our need for nuclear power, and the Energy Department has a strong set of nuclear programs that we believe can create an environment for a nuclear renaissance," Secretary of Energy Bodman said. Among the recommendations presented, the Council asked that DOE seriously consider the health of U.S. industry when deciding how to allocate funding for nuclear energy programs, notably for the Global Nuclear Energy Partnership, Nuclear Power 2010 and the Next Generation Nuclear Plant. Westinghouse CEO Steve Tritch said, "Under the leadership of President Bush and Secretary Bodman, DOE has established a strong set of nuclear energy programs that will help ensure U.S. technological leadership and growing U.S. employment in this vital field. Today we presented recommendations to help build upon the strong foundation that has been built in recent years." Council representatives stressed that it is essential, for both national security and economic reasons that a reinvigorated U.S. industry is able to compete in the global market from the dominant, preferred-supplier position. "The commitment to nuclear energy by our nation's leaders highlights its economic and environmental importance to the U.S. This step in the right direction has set the stage for near-term plant construction," said General Atomics Vice Chairman Linden Blue. "In order to rebuild a vital, domestic nuclear industry, we encourage DOE to mirror the Department of Defense's example of stewardship by ensuring that government procurement decisions benefit American taxpayers and contribute to the growth of U.S. industry." The Council recommended that DOE expedite the completion of the loan guarantee rules for nuclear energy projects and ensure the rules cover projects beyond new reactors that will restore the domestic nuclear energy design, manufacturing, service and supply industry. "The loan guarantee provisions of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 have served as a catalyst for the construction of new nuclear power plants in the U.S.," said EnergySolutions CEO Steve Creamer. "By ensuring these provisions cover other aspects of our domestic nuclear-energy infrastructure, we can start building new U.S. facilities and creating new U.S. jobs." On the international front, the Council supported the administration's efforts to secure agreements for nuclear energy cooperation with countries such as Russia and India, but cautioned that these agreements must not inadvertently undermine the resurrection of the U.S. nuclear industry. "Cooperation with other nations is an essential part of our nuclear energy future," said USEC Inc. CEO John Welch. "However, in negotiating such agreements, we must remember that the presence of a vibrant U.S. nuclear energy manufacturing and supply infrastructure is essential if we are to successfully influence nuclear energy and nonproliferation policies in other countries." Formed in 2005, the American Council on Global Nuclear Competitiveness is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization that seeks the return of American nuclear leadership to the world through the emergence of an U.S.-led global nuclear enterprise. The Council educates key audiences on the policies and technologies of an American nuclear renaissance, and summons public and private sector leadership to organize and promote such a transformation. For more information, visit http://www.nuclearcompetitiveness.org --------------- Thorium Power Reaches Major Milestone in Testing of Its Proprietary Nuclear Fuel Company Announces Successful Test of Scaled Up Nuclear Fuel for Commercial Reactors McLEAN, Va., March 6 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Thorium Power Ltd. (OTC Bulletin Board: THPW - News), the leading developer of low waste, non- proliferative nuclear fuel technology for existing and future reactors, today announced the successful completion of thermal-hydraulic experiments, a key step in the validation process of its thorium-based nuclear fuel designs. The work was performed at the thermal-hydraulic facilities of OKBM, the leading nuclear design bureau in Russia. The recently completed testing consisted of two experiments simulating emergency pressure and temperature conditions inside the core of commercial reactors: The first included a one-meter long complete seed and blanket assembly compatible with the VVER-1000 reactor design. The second experiment simulated conditions in Western PWR reactor designs, and was performed on a one-meter long partial seed fuel assembly consisting of 25 rods. Thorium Power's CEO Seth Grae said: "This is a breakthrough result for Thorium Power. It confirms that our thorium-based fuel designs are scalable and can meet the pressure and temperature performance standards for commercial light water reactors. We are on track for the full scale validation of our fuel in a commercial reactor." Dr. Andrey Mushakov, Thorium Power's Executive Vice President- International Nuclear Operations, added: "Over the last three years we have successfully demonstrated the promise of our fuel designs on a small-scale basis by fabricating fuel samples for irradiation testing in the IR-8 research reactor. We have now successfully scaled up our designs - by more than a factor of three - to fuel rods of a full meter. The final step will be to increase the scale of the rods to the size used in commercial reactors - approximately three and a half meters. Further, while our initial thermal- hydraulic testing involved separate seed rods and blanket rods, the new tests combined the seed and blanket bundles in a single fuel assembly - the exact configuration we will use in full scale commercial VVER-1000 reactors. Thorium Power's Technical Advisory Board, comprised of nuclear industry experts with long track records of designing and selling new fuels and reactors worldwide, met from February 28th to March 2nd and reviewed these results in the course of developing plans to accelerate the technology demonstration and commercialization schedule." Mr. Grae continued: "Going forward, the company will execute fuel product validation steps leading to demonstration of our fuel (so-called lead test assemblies, LTAs) in a VVER-1000 nuclear power plant powering over one million households. These validation steps include: -- Scaling up the fuel fabrication process to full length (10 feet) rods used in commercial VVER-1000 reactors -- Validating thermal hydraulic performance of full size (10 feet) seed and blanket fuel assembly -- Completing ampoule irradiation testing and perform post-irradiation examination to confirm fuel performance -- Obtaining final regulatory approvals for insertion of fuel in VVER-1000 commercial reactors." ------------- Next Austrian-Czech border blockade over Temelin on March 14 Linz- Austrian opponents of South Bohemian nuclear power plant Temelin will organise the next blockade of Austrian-Czech border crossings on March 14, Manfred Doppler, spokesman for the Upper Austrian group Atomstopp, told CTK today. The activists will block four crossings - Wullowitz/Dolni Dvoriste, Weigetschlag/Studanky, Guglwald/Predni Vyton and Gmund/Ceske Velenice - from 10:00 to 12:00 next Wednesday. Originally, the blockade was held every Wednesday. Doppler said that the Austrian government is discussing possible steps to be taken against Temelin. Doppler said that the blockade would take place even if Austria lodged an international complaint against the Czech Republic over Temelin. "It is the most important for us that the Czechs implement in the plant the safety measures we require," he pointed out. He repeatedly said that according to Atomstopp, the Czech Republic violated the bilateral Austrian-Czech agreement from Melk by allowing the full operation of the plant in 2003. "Border blockades will continue and Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer can blame only himself for it," Doppler said. The anti-nuclear activists criticise the Austrian government for its allegedly passive stance on Temelin. Atomstopp and the Lower Austrian platform Stopp Temelin said earlier that possible international diplomatic problems caused by the blockade were Gusenbauer's fault. --------------- U.S. working to develop new nuke detectors WASHINGTON Mar 6 - At a busy border crossing, a truck passing through a radiation scanner sets off an alarm. It could be a nuclear device, but it's far more likely to be kitty litter, ceramic tile or a load of bananas. The machines, first installed after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, measure gamma radiation, but cannot distinguish between low levels of gamma rays that occur naturally in innocent materials, and the makings for weapons that terrorists might use. So the inspectors must pull the truck or container aside for a second inspection with a hand-held scanner, which, at the nation's busiest ports or border crossings, can lead to backed-up lines that anger drivers and slow commerce. That's the dilemma of protecting the United States from nuclear terrorism ? a trade-off among accuracy, inconvenience and the expense to taxpayers. About 600 scanners have been installed at ports and border crossings around the U.S. Government officials are working with several companies to develop new nuclear detectors that won't waste time and that can actually differentiate the potassium in a banana from that in highly enriched uranium. Tests being conducted in Nevada this month pit new detectors against the older ones, to determine whether the higher accuracy claimed by the makers of the new machines is enough to justify their higher cost ? around $377,000 each, more than six times the cost of the older models. Later this spring, the new machines will undergo a real-world test on the New York waterfront so Customs officers can judge for themselves if they're an improvement. They're also to be used in similar tests along roads leading to the city as part of an effort to set up a protective perimeter starting in 2008. Some investigators question whether cutting the time wasted by false alarms might actually increase the deadly possibility of nuclear material slipping by an inspector. Last October, the congressional Government Accountability Office reported that the new machines, touted as having fewer false alarms, showed a frightening incidence of "false negatives" ? meaning the scanner either misidentified the material as nonthreatening, or failed to detect it at all. That danger is particularly high if the nuclear material is placed beside a nonthreatening substance such as kitty litter, the report said. It's no idle worry. Al-Qaida and like-minded terrorists have shown a desire both to obtain nuclear materials and to produce mass casualties. "Criminals and terrorists can obtain a key component for producing nuclear weapons and smuggle it undetected through the airports of countries on high alert against terrorist threats," concluded a report published in February by the EastWest Institute, a think tank that studies global security issues. In a 2006 report, the U.N. International Atomic Energy Agency listed 16 confirmed incidents of trafficking in highly enriched uranium or plutonium globally from 1993 to 2005. Concerns about terrorists obtaining nuclear material increased dramatically after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, but the Bush administration's efforts to deal with the issue were scattered across different agencies. As early as 2002, the GAO lamented the lack of any government-wide plan to guide U.S. efforts to combat nuclear smuggling. It said "some programs were duplicative, and coordination among U.S. agencies was not effective." It was not until April 2005 that the Domestic Nuclear Detection Office was created in the Homeland Security Department to coordinate the government's development of technology to detect nuclear materials. Later that year, at the Nevada test site just north of Las Vegas where the military once tested atomic weapons, the nuclear office began testing new machines, using sophisticated technology that can distinguish among different types of radioactive material. The older machines currently in use at ports and border crossings measure whether there is an elevated amount of radiation, but cannot identify its source. To test the new machines, the nuclear office sent trucks carrying radiological materials on 7,000 runs down a row of scanners developed by 10 companies. They chose three finalists whose models are still under evaluation. The newer models use crystals that absorb radioactive wavelengths to suggest what the material is. The operator analyzes the emissions using the machine's sophisticated software. "We don't expect this to be 100 percent perfect immediately, but we will continue to refine it," said Vayl Oxford, head of the nuclear office. Oxford will recommend to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff following this month's tests whether the machines should be certified for use. The agency plans to spend $80 million this year to buy 104 of the advanced models, and ultimately wants to put them at 380 border sites. Congress has said that can't happen until the machines are proven effective. Some critics have raised concerns about both performance and cost of the new technology. They worry that the crystals are too delicate for the new devices to be deployed in the real world, where sand or salt water can interfere with their performance. In a 2005 report, the GAO said, "Environmental conditions at many ports, such as the existence of high winds and sea spray, can affect radiation detection equipment's performance and sustainability." Oxford has acknowledged that the crystals used by the newer models are delicate and require more maintenance than the older ones. Also, the advanced model made by one company requires cool temperatures to operate effectively. In its October report, the GAO questioned the nuclear office's decisions about moving forward with the new models and concluded the agency did not justify its initial $1.2 billion contract with the three companies for their prototypes. And to judge the costs and benefits of the newer models, the agency relied on assumptions about the new machines' anticipated performance rather than considering actual test results, the GAO said. The report said the new scanners could not meet the nuclear office's standard of correctly identifying highly enriched uranium 95 percent of the time. Rather, the three finalists could recognize the uranium only 70 percent to 88 percent of the time, and could identify uranium masked by another substance such as kitty litter just 17 percent to 53 percent of the time. Oxford acknowledged that "some misunderstandings and/or disagreements remain" between his office and GAO, but promised that the testing this month in Nevada and later in New York would support the validity of his assumptions. He said he stood behind the basic conclusion that the new program is a "sound investment" for the government. --------------- Gamma Ray Blast May Help Huntington's Disease Therapy A powerful gamma ray source built to help the U.S. Army calibrate radiation safety equipment might also help scientists decipher a debilitating disease. UAH researchers are searching for clues that might lead to new therapies for Huntington's disease. Newswise ? A powerful gamma ray source built to help the U.S. Army calibrate radiation safety equipment might also help scientists decipher a debilitating disease. UAH students and faculty are working with the Army's Primary Standards Laboratory at Redstone Arsenal and several tiny worms (who didn't always glow in the dark) to search for clues that might lead to new therapies for Huntington's disease. "This line of research is definitely worth pursuing," said Dr. Lynn Boyd, an associate professor of biology at UAH. "It's still too early to say whether anything therapeutic might come from this, but it is ? promising." Using generations of tiny C. elegans nematode worms descended from ancestors who were genetically tagged in the Army's gamma ray chamber, Boyd and her student assistants are trying to learn what effects different enzymes have on clumps of amino acids associated with Huntington's disease. It isn't known whether these aggregates of polyglutamine are good or bad. Although the clumps are large compared to the cells ? proportionally, they can take up as much space in a cell as a seven-inch tumor in an average man ? some scientists believe they might be a cell's way of taking bad amino acids out of circulation by collecting them in one place. Good or bad, the UAH team has found some enzymes that make the clumps bigger and some that make them smaller. They study the enzymes, which are found naturally in the clumps, by tagging the worm's chromosomes with proteins or enzymes attached to glowing proteins (which are harvested from jellyfish and other fluorescent beasties). They inject the dye-tagged genetic material into the worms before they are zapped by powerful radiation. At just the right level of radiation, the DNA strands in the worms' unfertilized eggs snap and the dye-tagged material slips into the chromosomes while the worm isn't looking. The glowing protein is then reproduced in the worm's offspring. If the target material concentrates in clumps it creates glowing spots, giving the UAH researchers a tool for tracking what happens when specific enzymes are suppressed. In a recent trip to the Army's radiation lab, the UAH team hoped to tag individual strains of worms for seven specific enzymes. "One of the best things about the Army lab is that they are so meticulous," said Boyd. "We always get exactly the right dose of radiation, which might be why we've had a one hundred percent success rate so far." Boyd and her team think they might have had another successful zapping in February, although they can't be sure until they see the great-grand eggs of the worms that were irradiated. That should happen any time now, since C. elegans goes from hatching to parenthood in about three days. "It's always interesting when Lynn brings her worms out," said Steve Rogers, a senior physicist in the Wynn center's nucleonics lab. "We appreciate the opportunity to contribute to a research project like this one." Using human cells grown in a culture, Boyd found that suppressing the human enzymes that corresponded to the worm enzymes had the same effects on polyglutamine aggregates. Now she is talking to colleagues at The University of Alabama at Birmingham about taking this research to the next level. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From sandyfl at cox.net Tue Mar 6 10:42:12 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 08:42:12 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Laszlo Toro - Your current E-Mail address? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB601@gdses.corp.gds.com> Hello Laszlo, It appears that your E-Mail address is no longer working. If you read this, please send me your current E-Mail address or let me know that this is simply a server issue. Thanks! Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From sandyfl at cox.net Tue Mar 6 11:23:50 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 09:23:50 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] I have Laszlo Toro's E-Mail In-Reply-To: <2250270315753C4E95BD2184F631B04C808AF2@gamma.mgpi.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB606@gdses.corp.gds.com> No need to respond. Thanks you. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From don.mercado at lmco.com Tue Mar 6 11:53:25 2007 From: don.mercado at lmco.com (Mercado, Don) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:53:25 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] AW: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak In-Reply-To: <000001c75d2a$0c1c9d80$49197254@pc1> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A1@gdses.corp.gds.com> <000001c75d2a$0c1c9d80$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <3D92CA467E530B4E8295214868F840FE4643E2@emss01m12.us.lmco.com> Would you two ass hats quit. PLEASE! -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Franz Sch?nhofer Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 4:22 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Subject: [ RadSafe ] AW: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Shut up! Or do you more and more want to show your ignorance? I am not responsible for Mr. Hitler having been born in Braunau. My family has been in big troubles during the second world war. I have not equated you to a Nazi, but I categorized your words as Nazi-speak and so it is. Two other US citizen have already critizised your wording of "sub-humans" - flame them if you want to get rid of your aggressions. You know more than well, that I am from Austria - or did you forget our appointment in Vienna? This has nothing to do with any US-aversion - this is directed to just a single persons conduct. Refrain from sending any more intended insults to me, even more to send them to RADSAFE, because I will from now on not answer any single one. Did you understand, Mr. Perle? And don't call me "Franz" anymore, in our European culture first names are a privilege - sometime it seems that this is the case in certain parts of the USA as well. With all disrespect Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 03. M?rz 2007 01:05 An: 'Franz Sch?nhofer'; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Betreff: RE: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Franz, For someone who has absolutely nothing to say, you say it so often. And you equate me to a Nazi. If I recall, Hitler was from Austria. Where are you from, Franz!!!! _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From hflong at pacbell.net Tue Mar 6 13:20:31 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 11:20:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <20070305021431.57129.qmail@web32510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070306192031.4561.qmail@web83505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> "Georges, do you really support what the American and coalition forces did when they came to Iraq and turned your world upside down?" "Yes, of course I do. - God only knows what evil Saddam would eventually have done." " - al-Assad, please turn over these weapons. - Let the United Nations take them away." Saddam had used his scientists' capacity to memorize detail of A bomb plans, preparing for its rapid development while UN continued "inspections". By General Georges Sada, Saddam's Vice Air Marshall, Assyrian Christian, currently President of Iraqi Council of Churches. In Saddam's Secrets, Integrity Publishers 2006. He asked to lead the 40,000 Iraq Air Force in restoring order, but fear of Baathist methods kept Bremmer from accepting. "Hell Is Over- voices of the Kurds after Saddam" by Mike Tucker, 2004, Lyons Press reports, " I have listened to survivors of massacres during Saddam's murderous campaign--. Their joy is palpable and contagious --even in these uncertain times of increased terrorism and insurgent attacks." TV reports selectively bad news. Statistical weighing of benefit, as with radiation, is needed for accurate risk analysis. We must stop the Caliphate where it is sponsored, since it has declared it will eliminate infidels, America especially, and has on 9/11 shown that its threats are not empty. USSR leaders did not risk atomic retaliation. Would these death-wishers? Howard Long Ruth Sponsler wrote: What if, by some crazy fluke, the French nationalist Jean-Marie LePen were elected on April 22nd and he decided to stick his nose into *our* business? What if France finally got tired of being labeled as "ungrateful" and started standing up very strongly for itself - - and the target was the U.S.? Just a hypothesis that is hardly based on reality... If the U.S. wants to stick its nose into others' business too often, others will want to peek into our tent too. Sometimes, as in WWII, foreign intervention on the part of our country is necessary, but I think it's gone too far lately. I'd like to see our country reach out to at least the conservative parties in Europe like the CDU/CSU in Germany and the UMP in France. For the last few years, U.S. politicians have been bashing 'em all as "ungrateful" or as "socialists" -- with no recognition of the political spectrum that exists in Europe. Granted, the Socialist parties in Europe are pretty leftist, anti-business, and anti-nuclear. These guys do not represent the entirety of European public opinion. There are plenty of business-friendly politicians in Europe who would happily work with the U.S. if we stopped the Europe-bashing. However, the United States must acknowledge that hardly *any* Europeans, even on the Right, supported the Iraq war. ======== Context: I support French conservative Nicolas Sarkozy because he is a potential friend to Europe as well as the U.S., he supports of the French nuclear energy program, and because he's "tough on crime." The other French candidates including Socialist Segolene Royal and Rightist J.M. LePen are basically a joke because they're too extreme on the Left (Segolene Royal) or on the Right (J.M. LePen). ~Ruth http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/ --- "Syd H. Levine" wrote: > Somebody needs to stick their nose into a few folks' > business. Are we proud > we exercised restraint and allowed millions to be > murdered by the Nazis > before we decided to mind their business? What > about Pol Pot; we sat idly > by while millions were murdered because after > Vietnam, it certainly was not > politically expedient to get involved in that part > of the world. Pol Pot > appears to be second only to Hitler in the > extermination of innocents. I > suspect that someday, our involvement in the middle > east right now may be > viewed in a different light, whatever our ungrateful > European friends may > presently think. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandy Perle" > To: "'Steven Dapra'" ; > > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 4:01 PM > Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at > large > > > Steven, > > Thank you for your references. > > I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we > need to "quit sticking our > national nose into everyone else's business." Our > government has done that > way too often, attempting to instill our way of life > on others, who will > never do so. ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jsalsman at gmail.com Tue Mar 6 13:35:15 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 11:35:15 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] DU Study; Serious Health Risks Not Found Message-ID: Maury, Marshall's Lockheed-managed Sandia study is two years old, and Marshall himself admitted that he never considered immunological or reproductive toxicity: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_mediation/Depleted_uranium_and_related_articles&diff=prev&oldid=65849277 He didn't really answer many of my questions that I posted here on RADSAFE when his study first came out, either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Physbang Sincerely, James Salsman From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Tue Mar 6 15:42:40 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 13:42:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070305194222.009faca0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <635382.34640.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Was the plane a DC-3 or the military equivalent, the C-47. >From "Lend-lease: Aircraft Deliveries to the Soviet Union" at http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/geust/aircraft_deliveries.htm "Some American aircraft types were simply irreplaceable and very highly appreciated on all levels during the war, e.g. P-39 Airacobra fighters, A-20 Boston and B-25 Mitchell bombers and C-47 transport aircraft." As noted at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-3 "During World War II, many civilian DC-3s were drafted for the war effort and nearly 10,000 military versions of the DC-3 were built, under the designations C-47, C-53, R4D and Dakota." --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 5 > > Who was the Soviet agent at Malta -- oops > -- did you mean > Yalta? I knew about the National Socialist acronym. > > That "Soviet" DC-3 may have been one that > was reverse engineered > from some US planes that were forced to land in > Siberia. (Forced by bad > weather and lack of fuel for the return trip to a > US-controlled > base.) Stalin refused to return the planes -- in > effect he stole them. I > don't know what happened to the crews. I also > cannot remember where I read > about this. > > Steven Dapra > > > At 04:20 PM 3/5/07 -0800, Raymond A Hoover wrote: > >Actually, Roosevelt had a number of Soviet agents > on his staff (the U.S. > >didn't know it at the time of course). In point of > fact Rossevelt's chief > >adviser at the Malta conference was a Soviet agent. > Stalin knew more > >about the Manhatten Project than Truman did when he > took over from Roosevelt. > > > >Let me also point out that the Soviets and the > Nazis (bet you didn't know > >that Nazi is an acronym for National Socialst, i.e. > the Nazis were > >socialists) had more than one agreement during the > inter war period. The > >Soviets provided training areas for the German army > in exchange for > >advanced training, the Ribbentrop-Molotov agreement > that partitioned > >Poland are two examples). > > > >While it is true that Stalin was constantly asking > for a second front, the > >West hadn't abandoned him. The U.S. provided a > great deal of assistance > >the Soviets that allowed them to continue fighting. > As one example when I > >was in Kiev I toured a War Museum. In one corner > of the museum there sat > >a DC-3. The sign on the walkway said it was a > Soviet plane. It was > >either a copy of some of the U.S. support. The > U.S. gave the Soviets lots > >of infrastructure support (vehicles, food, > medicine, etc). most of which > >was never aknowledged by the Soviets. > > > >None of this is related to adiation stuff of > course. > > > >John Jacobus wrote: > >Steve, > >I don't think there was any "love affair" between > FDR > >and Stalin. After WWI there was a powerful > >isolationist movement in this country. Our entry > into > >WWII was delayed by the "America First" movement, a > >member of which was the American hero Charles > >Lindbergh. > >http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/americafirst.html > >Also, there was fear of the rise Communism. And who > >better to fight the Communist that the Facists? > >Even before the US entered the European front, we > had > >arrangements with Britain, e.g., Lend-Lease policy. > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease > >At the outset of our involvement, Stalin pushed for > a > >second front. Instead the US and Britain push > through > >North Africa, into the Mediterranian. Basically, > the > >Soviet Union breed the Nazis with their own > soldiers > >and citizens until we finally invaded Normandy. > >--- Steven Dapra wrote: > >Rest deleted. > > > > > >Want to start your own business? Learn how on > >Yahoo! > > >Small Business. > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 From sandyfl at cox.net Tue Mar 6 16:22:34 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:22:34 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] GREEN LIGHT FOR FRENCH NUCLEAR REACTOR IN NORMANDY Message-ID: <45ED792A.25041.19813E5@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: *GREEN LIGHT FOR FRENCH NUCLEAR REACTOR IN NORMANDY *Officials push for Yucca nuclear dump *Romania to increase use of nuclear power *Bodman: Nuclear Power To Be Key Topic In India *Dominion could pursue nuclear plant *Pilgrim operator asked about 4 matters related to safety *Border Radiation Detection Devices Not Practical ------------------------------------------------ GREEN LIGHT FOR FRENCH NUCLEAR REACTOR IN NORMANDY PARIS, March 6, 2007 (AFP) - France's nuclear safety commission gave a green light Tuesday for the construction of a 3.3-billion euro (4.3- billion dollar) nuclear reactor in Normandy near the English Channel. Commission president Andre-Claude Lacoste told journalists he had forwarded "a favourable recommendation" on the 1600-megawatt reactor to relevant ministers. Construction of the so-called "third-generation" European Pressurized Water Reactor (EPR), located near the town of Flamanville, is slated to begin by the end of the year. France derives around three-quarters of its electricity from nuclear power, the highest ratio of any country in the world, and many of its reactors are approaching obsolescence. Opponents of nuclear energy, including several minor presidential candidates, have called for protest rallies to be held in five French cities on March 17. Lacoste said that the Flamanville reactor has "been the object of a much broader and deeper evaluation that other French electricity- generation nuclear plants at the safety report stage." The EPR design was developed in the 1990s by Germany's Siemens and France's Framatome-ANP, which is part of the state-owned nuclear energy group Areva. It reportedly uses 17 percent less fuel than the types of reactor currently operating in France, and is designed to generate power for 60 years. The 58 reactors currently in service -- built under a vast programme launched 30 years ago during the first oil crisis -- will begin to age out of operation beginning in 2015. -------------- Officials push for Yucca nuclear dump WASHINGTON - The Energy Department unveiled legislation Tuesday to spur construction of a national nuclear waste dump in Nevada and increase its capacity. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (news, bio, voting record), D-Nev., immediately vowed to block the bill. That could spell more problems for the troubled Yucca Mountain nuclear waste dump, already years behind schedule. The Energy Department official who heads the project warned that without new funding that's part of the bill, a 2017 goal for opening the dump 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas could not be met. "If we don't have that we are certainly not going to be able to maintain the 2017 date," said Edward F. "Ward" Sproat, director of the Energy Department's Office of Civilian Radioactive Waste Management. Sproat also said that if the Yucca Mountain's capacity isn't increased from the current limit of 77,000 tons, as the bill proposes, he would have to recommend to Congress next year that a second nuclear waste dump be built. That would be a hard sell, as few states would want to host a nuclear waste dump. Sproat indicated that the prospect of a second nuclear waste dump could help convince Congress of the need to move forward with Yucca Mountain and approve the department's legislation. "It's part of what I would call the congressional education process," Sproat told reporters at a briefing organized by The Energy Daily. The new bill is similar to legislation the Energy Department offered last year that didn't advance. The political environment is even tougher for the measure this year now that Reid, an ardent Yucca Mountain opponent, is in charge of the Senate. "This is just the department's latest attempt to breathe life into this dying beast and it will fail," Reid said. "I will continue to leverage my leadership position to prevent the dump from ever being built." The bill doesn't specify how much more than 77,000 tons of nuclear waste should be allowed in Yucca Mountain, though federal environmental impact studies have estimated the dump could safely hold at least 132,000 tons. There's already more than 50,000 tons of nuclear waste piling up at nuclear power plants in 31 states with nowhere to go, something that's threatening taxpayers with mounting liability costs since the federal government was contractually obligated to begin storing nuclear utilities' waste starting in 1998. Reid's solution is to leave the nuclear waste at the sites where it already is, put it in dry cask storage units and allow the Energy Department to take ownership of it onsite to eliminate the problem of liability to utilities. He and Sen. John Ensign (news, bio, voting record), R-Nev., introduced their own legislation Tuesday to make those changes. In recent years Reid has also succeeded in cutting President Bush's budget request for Yucca. The project's 2007 budget, at $405 million, is nearly $150 million less than the administration wanted, which Sproat said is forcing project managers to put various initiatives on hold, including work on a rail line to transport the waste. The Energy Department's bill would ensure that annual revenues in a special nuclear waste fund paid for by utilities would be dedicated to Yucca Mountain outside the overall federal budgeting process, so that Yucca wouldn't have to compete with other programs for funding. This would guarantee Yucca Mountain dedicated funding of at least $750 million per year. ---------------- Romania to increase use of nuclear power BUCHAREST, Romania (AP) - Romanian Prime Minister Calin Popescu Tariceanu called Tuesday for the building of two more nuclear reactors to be speeded up. "Due to the world energy crisis and rising prices, nuclear energy is being reconsidered," said Tariceanu, adding that Romania's economy was growing rapidly and needed to diversify its energy resources. Romania has a functioning Canadian-design nuclear reactor in Cernavoda and a second one is scheduled to become operational later this year. The working plant provides about 10% of Romania's energy needs. The two new reactors in Cernavoda, about 90 miles east of Bucharest, are expected to be operational in 2012 or 2013, with construction estimated to cost $2.6 billion. -------------- Bodman: Nuclear Power To Be Key Topic In India WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- Nuclear power will be a primary topic of discussion while U.S. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman is visiting with energy officials in India later this month, the secretary told reporters Tuesday. A central issue will be "cooperation on civil nuclear energy," Bodman said. In addition, Bodman said he plans to discuss any plans India might have to create a strategic oil reserve. "If they are moving along, we'll talk about how you use it, what it's for," Bodman said. DOE officials have said India, China and other countries that are building up new strategic petroleum reserves should use those stockpiles only in the event of supply disruptions and not to manipulate global oil prices. Bodman said he planned to be in India three or four days. Under the pact, the U.S. has agreed to help India advance nuclear technology as long as the fast-growing developing country commits to certain nonproliferation principles that limit the spread of dangerous nuclear materials. U.S. officials say the agreement will help energy-hungry India - the fifth- largest oil consuming nation in the world in 2006 - diversify its energy sector away from a reliance on fossil fuels to emission- free nuclear power for electricity generation. Over the objections of some critics on Capitol Hill, the U.S. Congress approved the civilian nuclear deal for India late last year. The action made way for U.S. companies like General Electric Co. (GE) and Westinghouse Electric Co. to sell nuclear technology to India for the first time. India's sole nuclear generator is state-run Nuclear Power Corp. of India Ltd, and the country currently doesn't allow private investment in nuclear power generation. But with the civilian nuclear energy deal in play, India is looking to open up the sector. While in New Delhi, the secretary is scheduled to speak at a March 20- 21 conference sponsored by the U.S. Energy Association about investment opportunities in the South Asian power markets. Representatives from India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Singapore and other countries are slated to speak as well. Additionally, Bodman said he might discuss with Indian officials any plans the country might have to create a strategic oil reserve. "If they are moving along, we'll talk about how you use it, what it's for," he said. DOE officials have said India, China and other countries that are building new strategic petroleum reserves should use those stockpiles only in the event of supply disruptions and not to manipulate global oil prices. Bodman said he planned to be in India three or four days. -------------- Dominion could pursue nuclear plant The massive re-write of Virginia's utility laws that is awaiting Gov. Timothy Kaine's signature would help push Dominion Virginia Power closer to being the first company to order a new nuclear power plant since the 1970s. Dominion has repeatedly said that the legislation must be passed this year to get a new nuclear plant built. The Richmond-based utility was already in the front of the pack of companies moving through the long government approval process to get a plant approved. Besides meeting various federal standards, any utility that wants to build a plant must raise billions of dollars. That's where the Virginia bill helps. It guarantees higher profits for a nuclear plant, and allows Dominion to start passing the cost to its customers during construction. Where and when does Dominion want to build a nuclear plant? Who else is as far along as Dominion so far? What's next after a site is approved? Why has Dominion said the Virginia bill must pass this year to get a plant built? ------------------ NRC wants more info from nuclear plant: Pilgrim operator asked about 4 matters related to safety PLYMOUTH (The Patriot Ledger) Mar 6 - As they review the Pilgrim nuclear power plant?s bid to operate for 20 additional years, nuclear regulators are asking the plant operator to look more closely at four safety items. Those items must be addressed if the plant is to receive a license to operate through 2032 - two decades past the original license expiration date. Pilgrim officials said they expect to be able to satisfy regulators. ``We will work on developing responses,?? plant spokesman David Tarantino said. ``(Regulators) need some further clarification and information, and we will provide that information.?? Some of the issues were discussed in January during a public meeting in Plymouth. At that meeting, regulators unveiled findings of a major inspection related to the relicensing effort. One such concern was water found on the floor of chambers surrounding the bottom of the plant?s dry well. The dry well is a containment vessel that surrounds the plant?s reactor core and is the first line of defense in an accident. Officials from the federal Nuclear Regulatory Commission want Entergy Corp., Pilgrim?s owner, to show that the water did not come from the reactor and that it has not harmed bolts that hold down steel plates used on stabilizers for the reactor. Tarantino said plant officials are still analyzing the water to make sure that it is not radioactive. Plant personnel do not believe it could have come from the reactor; pH studies of the water indicate that it is groundwater, he said. ``The question really is: Has this water caused a corrosion of those bolts that would impair their ability to function,?? Tarantino said. NRC officials also want Entergy to: -Provide more information about how it plans to inspect seals in the plant?s fire prevention system. -Provide more information about a diesel generator in the plant?s security system. -Change the calculation the plant has used to determine the rate at which nuclear reaction in the reactor core is causing the metal to become more brittle. --------------- Border Radiation Detection Devices Not Practical, Homeland Security Official Says WASHINGTON - At a busy border crossing, a truck passing through a radiation scanner sets off an alarm. It could be a nuclear device, but it's far more likely to be kitty litter, ceramic tile or a load of bananas. "Nuclear materials such as uranium and plutonium are not the only materials that emit radiation," Vayl Oxford, who directs the Homeland Security Department's nuclear office, told a House Appropriations panel Tuesday. The machines, first installed after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, measure gamma radiation, but cannot distinguish between low levels of gamma rays that occur naturally in innocent materials, and the makings for weapons that terrorists might use. So the inspectors must pull the truck or container aside for a second inspection with a hand-held scanner, which, at the nation's busiest ports or border crossings, can lead to backed-up lines that anger drivers and slow commerce. "Naturally occurring radioactive materials ... place an enormous burden on our customs offices, who must respond to all radiation alarms, including those caused by innocent goods," Oxford told the Appropriations subcommittee for homeland security. He explained that distance, dense materials like steel and lead, and the speed at which trucks carrying cargo move - about 5 mph - all affect the scanners' effectiveness. That's the dilemma of protecting the United States from nuclear terrorism - a trade-off among accuracy, inconvenience and the expense to taxpayers. "The 11 million containers that transit the ports every year (are) an enormous moving haystack that could conceal a deadly needle," said Rep. Hal Rogers, R-Ky. Government agencies need "to find this proverbial needle in the haystack and prevent it from causing real harm in a way that does not bring the American economic engine to a grinding halt," Rogers said. About 600 scanners have been installed at ports and border crossings around the U.S. Government officials are working with several companies to develop new nuclear detectors that won't waste time and that can actually differentiate the potassium in a banana from that in highly enriched uranium. Tests being conducted in Nevada this month pit new detectors against the older ones, to determine whether the higher accuracy claimed by the makers of the new machines is enough to justify their higher cost - around $377,000 each, more than six times the cost of the older models. Later this spring, the new machines will undergo a real-world test on the New York waterfront so Customs officers can judge for themselves if they're an improvement. They're also to be used in similar tests along roads leading to the city as part of an effort to set up a protective perimeter starting in 2008. Some investigators question whether cutting the time wasted by false alarms might actually increase the deadly possibility of nuclear material slipping by an inspector. Last October, the congressional Government Accountability Office reported that the new machines, touted as having fewer false alarms, showed a frightening incidence of "false negatives" - meaning the scanner either misidentified the material as nonthreatening, or failed to detect it at all. That danger is particularly high if the nuclear material is placed beside a nonthreatening substance such as kitty litter, the report said. It's no idle worry. Al-Qaida and like-minded terrorists have shown a desire both to obtain nuclear materials and to produce mass casualties. "Criminals and terrorists can obtain a key component for producing nuclear weapons and smuggle it undetected through the airports of countries on high alert against terrorist threats," concluded a report published in February by the EastWest Institute, a think tank that studies global security issues. In a 2006 report, the U.N. International Atomic Energy Agency listed 16 confirmed incidents of trafficking in highly enriched uranium or plutonium globally from 1993 to 2005. Concerns about terrorists obtaining nuclear material increased dramatically after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, but the Bush administration's efforts to deal with the issue were scattered across different agencies. As early as 2002, the GAO lamented the lack of any government-wide plan to guide U.S. efforts to combat nuclear smuggling. It said "some programs were duplicative, and coordination among U.S. agencies was not effective." It was not until April 2005 that the Domestic Nuclear Detection Office, which Oxford heads, was created in the Homeland Security Department to coordinate the government's development of technology to detect nuclear materials. Later that year, at the Nevada test site just north of Las Vegas where the military once tested atomic weapons, the nuclear office began testing new machines, using sophisticated technology that can distinguish among different types of radioactive material. The older machines currently in use at ports and border crossings measure whether there is an elevated amount of radiation, but cannot identify its source. To test the new machines, the nuclear office sent trucks carrying radiological materials on 7,000 runs down a row of scanners developed by 10 companies. They chose three finalists whose models are still under evaluation. Oxford will recommend to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff following this month's tests whether the machines should be certified for use. The agency plans to spend $80 million this year to buy 104 of the advanced models, and ultimately wants to put them at 380 border sites. Congress has said that can't happen until the machines are proven effective. Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From zfrexon at yahoo.com Tue Mar 6 19:11:15 2007 From: zfrexon at yahoo.com (Zaid Farukhi) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 17:11:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era Message-ID: <81669.62572.qm@web56601.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hello, Rexon Components, Inc. repairs all vendors' detectors and instruments (Bicron, Thermo, Eberline, Fluke, Harshaw, Teledyne, Ludlum, etc.). Rexon Components, Inc. also manufactures new products on a private label basis. Rexon has been around for 24 years. The website does not contain all the products since we constantly are custom-designing many of our products. Rexon TLD Systems, Inc. has in addition to their own line of Rexon / Teledyne readers has serviced other vendors TLD readers (Harshaw) in the past. The site is www.rexon.com. Their email is sales at rexon.com. Thank You, Zaid Farukhi Rexon Components, Inc. 24500 Highpoint Road Beachwood, OH 44122 Off: 216-292-7373 24 hr/7 days: 440-585-7086 Fax: 216-292-7714 Site: www.rexon.com Email: sales at rexon.com, zfrexon at yahoo.com -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of J. Marshall Reber Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:40 AM To: radsafelist Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. From sjd at swcp.com Tue Mar 6 19:17:08 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 18:17:08 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <635382.34640.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070305194222.009faca0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070306181602.009f6ec0@mail.swcp.com> March 6 This was my mistake. I received a private e-mail advising me that the airplane was a B-29. My apologies for the error. Steven Dapra At 01:42 PM 3/6/07 -0800, John Jacobus wrote: >Was the plane a DC-3 or the military equivalent, the >C-47. From sjd at swcp.com Tue Mar 6 20:25:56 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 19:25:56 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] DU Study; Serious Health Risks Not Found In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070306192315.009f1240@mail.swcp.com> March 6 James -- why don't you answer *my* question about Han Kang's alleged 2.2 increased risk? Remember? The one he made in Gulf War Review. See my e-mail to RADSAFE of Feb. 28. Did his claim ever pass peer review, was it published, and if so, what is the citation? Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 11:35 AM 3/6/07 -0800, James Salsman wrote: >Maury, > >Marshall's Lockheed-managed Sandia study is two years old, and >Marshall himself admitted that he never considered immunological or >reproductive toxicity: > >http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_mediation/Depleted_uranium_and_related_articles&diff=prev&oldid=65849277 > >He didn't really answer many of my questions that I posted here on >RADSAFE when his study first came out, either: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Physbang > >Sincerely, >James Salsman From jsalsman at gmail.com Tue Mar 6 22:29:55 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 20:29:55 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Han Kang's epidemiology Message-ID: Steven Dapra wrote: > James -- why don't you answer *my* question about Han Kang's > alleged 2.2 increased risk? Remember? The one he made in Gulf War > Review. See my e-mail to RADSAFE of Feb. 28. Did his claim ever > pass peer review, was it published, and if so, what is the citation? Think about it: Kang publishes a 1.8 risk ratio (2.8 for children of female 1991 combat-deployed troops) in Annals of Epidemiology in 2001, and critics say that the self-reported surveys must have been mistaken -- our fighting men and women, the critics say, must have been lying about their own kids health. Dr. Margaret Ryan, whose DoD Birth and Infant Health Registry at the Naval Health Research Center is charged with publication of the reproductive health records which Kang and Araneta had been summarizing independently of each other, abruptly stops publishing tabulated statistics in 2001, writes a letter in response to Araneta's article (which echoed Kang's claims), saying that Araneta's methodology was flawed without saying why, and then co-authors a whitewash with Pat Doyle -- who detected the same increase, by the way, but discounted it as "reporting error" in her own paper -- calling the 80% increase in birth defects "modest." So Dr. Kang goes back and reviews 700+ medical records, and finds that the number of birth defects has increased 20%. He publishes that in his agency newsletter. Then Eric Daxon lies that Kang actually found a decrease after medical records review, not an increase. I spoke to Dr. Kang not too long ago, and yes, he is seeking publication of his most recent findings in the peer reviewed medical literature. Please phone him yourself and ask about it if you are curious. His telephone number is 202-745-8249. Sincerely, James Salsman From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Mon Mar 5 16:17:26 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 23:17:26 +0100 Subject: AW: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] NewAirport X-Ray... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c75f74$15115150$49197254@pc1> Louis, You might remember that especially in the 80's and early 90's hijacking was a kind of everyday event. This did not only include Muslims, but to a much higher extent all from Russians to escape to the West, Cubans forcing deviation to Cuba, members of the German RAF to liberate imprisoned members, etc. etc. This terror has declined to zero as far as I know. Other forms of terror have involved, but this seems to be a shortlived one - do not claim it to enhanced "security". My personal opinion then and also nowadays: If the mass media would not have covered these events and especially the politically motivated ones to such an event no terrorists would have any more used this potential blackmail. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von LNMolino at aol.com Gesendet: Montag, 05. M?rz 2007 20:12 An: crispy_bird at yahoo.com; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] NewAirport X-Ray... In a message dated 3/5/2007 9:40:15 A.M. Central Standard Time, crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: Louis, You are correct. I should have said that "this new wave of terrorism will pass and be replace by another." At the beginning of the 20th century, Anarchism was the new terrorism. It will be replaced by a new one. One can even argue that the treat of nuclear warfare was a form of terrorism, which is why it was called MAD. http://www.state.de.us/cjc/terrorism/history.shtml I can fully agree with that statement above. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Mon Mar 5 16:35:36 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 23:35:36 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <47122ED5-B5B6-4946-B76C-01E05428444D@iit.edu> Message-ID: <000701c75f76$9eb63770$49197254@pc1> Jeff, please forgive the "holes" in my memory: Didn't Eberline purchase a German company a few decades ago? People there were very unhappy about this. I have even bought a few instruments of both the original and the new company. Now it seems more profitable to have R&D being done in Germany. That's one of the typical results of globalisation. All around the world companies are suffering from that - why not an US company? - O.k. I am now according to some other RADSAFErs sending an anti-US comment. Let it be. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Jeff Terry Gesendet: Montag, 05. M?rz 2007 19:53 An: radsafelist Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era Actually, this really is a shame. I hope that some of them make the move down to Ludlum. This has been in the works for some time now. If anyone needs backup manuals for older instruments, the time to ask is now. I hate Windows programs. I wish that scientific instrument manufacturers would provide linux software at a minimum. I guess that loss on knowledge is one of dangers of selling out to large multinational corporations. Jeff On Mar 5, 2007, at 11:39 AM, J. Marshall Reber wrote: > I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their > Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and > service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more > than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, > repair service will all be done in South Carolina. > > Throw out your little screwdrivers - - - future instrument > adjustment and calibrations will all be done by Windows program > interaction. Digitize your thought processes or become out-of- > date! All analog circuitry will be done by digital emulation. > People replaced by robots - - - where will it end? Oh the > humanity, the humanity!!! > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// > radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other > settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Mon Mar 5 17:31:09 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 00:31:09 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <000c01c75f7e$613dda30$49197254@pc1> Dear Steven, I did not expect that anybody on this list would be really interested in the situation of radiation protection and even less on our application of ALARA in Austria. Sorry for that misconception! Before I retired about three years ago I have been forced to spend about five years at the Department of Radiation Protection at the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry, Environmental Protection and Water Management. I was practically not allowed to do anything reasonable, but though I drafted a ? in my opinion reasonable ? proposal for an ordinance on naturally occurring radioactive material (NORM) it has more than seven years after not been implemented yet. Though my collegues from other European countries urged me to participate in the relevant European Union meetings I was never sent to any of them. Anyway you might regard me as an (unsuccesful) ?regulator?. I refrain from boring RADSAFErs by internals from the Austrian government, but I proceed to what you are obviously interested in ? ALARA. Austria has adopted the relevant EU directive into national law, with some small reservations. So any regulations in the context of the EU Directive is ? hopefully ? in compliance with an ALARA concept. We have in Austria a very simple and most effective method of restricting use and discharge of radioactive material: Any company or institution, which wants to use radiioactive material and would discharge any of it has to have a license. This licence has to be granted by the relevant authority. The companies have to apply for the licence producing an expertise by a specialist who is acknowledged by the authorities. The authorities decide about the application and they put forwardfor instance conditions like the concentration and the amount of radionuclides to be emitted through stacks of waste water. Though I am one of the foremost to critizise Austrias policy against nuclear power and the politically motivated anti-Czech actions I think that this system is very effective and helpful. I do not know of any complaints by companies involved, but only of positive reactions. Steven, I hope this helps ? though it is really unspectacular. In case you receive any other messages from other countries I hope you forward them to RADSAFE. Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Steven Dapra [mailto:sjd at swcp.com] Gesendet: Sonntag, 04. M?rz 2007 22:27 An: Franz Sch?nhofer; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE March 4 You are correct, Franz, in stating that "this list is an international one". I would like to hear something from Austria. Why don't you present a short discussion and assessment of the current state of ALARA in Austria. (I do not know how widespread ALARA is, and am assuming it is used in Austria.) You could tell us how Austrian regulators interpret and apply ALARA. You could explain what the nuclear industry thinks of the regulators, and of ALARA, and how the industry copes with both. That would be a good place to start. After that has been thrashed out, we could move on to ALARA in other European countries, and in the Scandanavian countries. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com From torolaszlo at yahoo.com Wed Mar 7 02:07:57 2007 From: torolaszlo at yahoo.com (Toro Laszlo) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 00:07:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Po-210 as a poison Message-ID: <287188.70774.qm@web39208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Colegues, There is an interesting paper regarding the dosimetry of Po-210: http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0952-4746/27/1/001 the full text (pdf file) at http://www.iop.org/EJ/S/UNREG/SbXzc41HEJ88ZV,ez4dovA/article/0952-4746/27/1/001/jrp7_1_001.pdf yours, Laszlo Toro ====================================================================== Laszlo Toro PhD senior scientist CNCAN certified expert Institute of Public Health Timisoara Radiation Hygiene Dept. RO 300226 Timisoara Bd. V. Babes 16-18 Romania ph. +40 256 492101 ext 34 fax +40 256 492101 e-mail toro at ispt.ro torolaszlo at yahoo.com ====================================================================== ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 From m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl Wed Mar 7 06:26:23 2007 From: m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl (Marcel Schouwenburg) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 13:26:23 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large: Thread closed! In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070305183224.009f1120@mail.swcp.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304192538.009ed130@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070305183224.009f1120@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <45EEAF6F.2040000@tudelft.nl> Dear RadSafers, In a renewed attempt to keep the list on the Health Physics track I hereby issue a general announcement to the whole list (besides several individual messages to some subscribers) regarding the below mentioned thread (and some others): RE: Terror in the US & world at large: Thread closed! I will start using these kinds of announcements frow now on whenever I see the list getting out of track. I expect RadSafe list members to stop sending message regarding closed threads to the list since I'm not intending to make the list pre-moderated. Pre-moderating the list will only take the dynamics out of RadSafe and will create an extra threshold for members intending to send a message. This is definitely not something I prefer since I don't like to punish the mass for the behaviour of a few members. However, it might become necessary in the (near) future to start pre-moderating if messages, similar to those posted recently, keep appearing on the list. As a reminder I resend the link to the RadSafe rules: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html Finally, remember you can use the delete button or use an e-mail filter (as indicated before by several RadSafers). With kind regards, Marcel Schouwenburg Head / Lecturer Training Centre Delft, Health Physicist, expert level 2 RadSafe Moderator & Listowner National Centre for Radiation Protection (Dutch abbr. NCSV) Delft University of Technology Faculty of Applied Sciences / Reactor Institute Delft Mekelweg 15 NL - 2629 JB DELFT The Netherlands T: +31 (0)15 27 86575 F: +31 (0)15 27 81717 M: +31 (0)6 419 83 145 E: m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl From Kotsch.Jeffrey at dol.gov Wed Mar 7 07:53:40 2007 From: Kotsch.Jeffrey at dol.gov (Kotsch, Jeffrey - ESA) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:53:40 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Federal Job Posting - Senior Health Physicist Message-ID: <49AE43260FD9C443B007FD0E0B675F73EA5945@esafpbmb04.esa.dir.labor.gov> The Department of Labor, Division of Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation, in Washington, DC, is looking to hire another Senior Health Physicist. Currently there are a Senior HP and HP on staff. The employee will serve as an expert with respect to providing advice and guidance on dose reconstructions in the proper adjudication of EEOICP claims. It is a GS-14 level position (salary range of $93,822 to 121,967). All of the details of the job and application instructions are in the vacancy announcements, which can be found at www.opm.gov . There are two announcement numbers. ESA-EE-07-54-MS is for all current or former federal employees with competitive/reinstatement eligibility, ICTAP/CTAP eligibles in the local commuting area and Veteran Employment Opportunity Act (VEOA) eligibles. ESA-EE-07-54-DEU is for non-status applicants. Both vacancy announcements close on April 6, 2007. If you would like to ask any questions of me, my contact information is below. Jeff Jeffrey L. Kotsch, CHP Senior Health Physicist U.S. Department of Labor Division of Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation Phone: 202/693-0188 Fax: 202/693-1465 kotsch.jeffrey at dol.gov From sandyfl at cox.net Wed Mar 7 09:11:50 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:11:50 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] U.S. to Owe Billions for Delays in Nuclear Dump, Official Says Message-ID: <45EE65B6.3932.533D363@sandyfl.cox.net> NOTE: I am traveling weswtward across the Pacific. Therefore, the next news posting will most likely occur on about March 21. I will respond to individual Radsafe or Powernet posts from my Blackberry ..... Index: *U.S. to Owe Billions for Delays in Nuclear Dump, Official Says *Reid vows to block nuclear waste bill *US pushes ahead on mountain nuclear dump *Accused caught at nuclear site *Barnwell site draws support *UK Faces Energy Gap, Needs Quick Nuclear Decision *Australians will accept nuclear power: Switkowski *Czechs, Slovaks urge EU to debate nuclear energy ----------------------------------------------------------------- U.S. to Owe Billions for Delays in Nuclear Dump, Official Says WASHINGTON, March 6 - The federal government will owe $7 billion in damages for delays in opening a nuclear waste dump if the repository opens in 2017 - the earliest date now possible - and any further delay will raise the price half a billion dollars a year, the head of the radioactive waste program said Tuesday. The money would reimburse current and former nuclear plant operators who signed contracts under which the federal government agreed to begin accepting their wastes in 1998. The official, Edward F. Sproat III, director of the Office of Civilian Radioactive Waste Management, said progress toward opening a waste repository at Yucca Mountain, Nev., near Las Vegas, had been slowed by lack of money, despite a $19.5 billion fund financed by a fee on each kilowatt-hour of electricity generated by reactors. He said the administration would ask Congress on Wednesday for easier access to the money. But he also acknowledged that the schedule had been hurt by problems in his office and with its contractors; 60 percent of the work his office is doing this year involves reanalyzing data that was rejected earlier because of signs of fraud. The administration will also request that the site be permitted to store more than the 70,000 metric tons originally set by Congress. That limit was set with the idea that the Energy Department would look for a second site, but it has made small progress toward opening the first one. Mr. Sproat spoke at a breakfast sponsored by The Energy Daily, a trade publication, and Areva, a reactor vendor. The nuclear waste issue has become more acute because for the first time since the 1970s, companies want to build new reactors, according to Mr. Sproat and others. But Mr. Sproat said investors would not lend money for construction unless the Energy Department resumed offering contracts to the utilities for waste disposal. --------------------- Reid vows to block nuclear waste bill WASHINGTON - The Energy Department unveiled legislation Tuesday to spur construction of a national nuclear waste dump in Nevada and increase its capacity. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (news, bio, voting record), D-Nev., immediately vowed to block the bill. That could spell more problems for the troubled Yucca Mountain nuclear waste dump, already years behind schedule. The Energy Department official who heads the project warned that without new funding that's part of the bill, a 2017 goal for opening the dump 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas could not be met. "If we don't have that we are certainly not going to be able to maintain the 2017 date," said Edward F. "Ward" Sproat, director of the Energy Department's Office of Civilian Radioactive Waste Management. Sproat also said that if the Yucca Mountain's capacity isn't increased from the current limit of 77,000 tons, as the bill proposes, he would have to recommend to Congress next year that a second nuclear waste dump be built. That would be a hard sell, as few states would want to host a nuclear waste dump. Sproat indicated that the prospect of a second nuclear waste dump could help convince Congress of the need to move forward with Yucca Mountain and approve the department's legislation. "It's part of what I would call the congressional education process," Sproat told reporters at a briefing organized by The Energy Daily. The new bill is similar to legislation the Energy Department offered last year that didn't advance. The political environment is even tougher for the measure this year now that Reid, an ardent Yucca Mountain opponent, is in charge of the Senate. "This is just the department's latest attempt to breathe life into this dying beast and it will fail," Reid said. "I will continue to leverage my leadership position to prevent the dump from ever being built." The bill doesn't specify how much more than 77,000 tons of nuclear waste should be allowed in Yucca Mountain, though federal environmental impact studies have estimated the dump could safely hold at least 132,000 tons. There's already more than 50,000 tons of nuclear waste piling up at nuclear power plants in 31 states with nowhere to go, something that's threatening taxpayers with mounting liability costs since the federal government was contractually obligated to begin storing nuclear utilities' waste starting in 1998. Reid's solution is to leave the nuclear waste at the sites where it already is, put it in dry cask storage units and allow the Energy Department to take ownership of it onsite to eliminate the problem of liability to utilities. He and Sen. John Ensign (news, bio, voting record), R-Nev., introduced their own legislation Tuesday to make those changes. In recent years Reid has also succeeded in cutting President Bush's budget request for Yucca. The project's 2007 budget, at $405 million, is nearly $150 million less than the administration wanted, which Sproat said is forcing project managers to put various initiatives on hold, including work on a rail line to transport the waste. The Energy Department's bill would ensure that annual revenues in a special nuclear waste fund paid for by utilities would be dedicated to Yucca Mountain outside the overall federal budgeting process, so that Yucca wouldn't have to compete with other programs for funding. This would guarantee Yucca Mountain dedicated funding of at least $750 million per year. ---------------- US pushes ahead on mountain nuclear dump Washington looks set for a political battle after the US Department of Energy presented plans to fast track a high-grade nuclear waste dump in the mountains of Nevada, stressing the need for an urgent resolution. The rugged mountains of Nevada are being presented as the best site for America's nuclear waste Energy Secretary, Samuel Bodman, has asked congressmen to vote the proposals through adding that there is no other plan on the table and that there is a pressing need for the US to improve its ability to manage and dispose of spent fuel from nuclear facilities and high- level radioactive waste from nuclear weapons. But Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid announced he would do everything in his power to block the bill when it reaches the upper house. "This legislative proposal reflects the Administration's strong commitment to advancing the development of the Yucca Mountain repository, while seeking to provide stability, clarity and predictability in moving the project forward," Secretary Bodman said. The Yucca Mountain repository is critical to the nation's current and future energy and national security needs, and I look forward to working with the Congress on developing a bill that can be passed by Congress and signed by the President." The proposed legislation would pave the way for a repository for the waste deep underground 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas and would also place permanent restrictions on land use in the surrounding area, effectively sealing off public access to the mountain forever. But Washington faces the same problems as other national governments keen to find suitable sites for burying nuclear waste - nobody wants to play host to a facility which will blight the region for perpetuity. The case is made harder to sell as the proposed legislation scraps the 70,000 tonne cap previously put forward for the site, 'in order to allow maximum use of the mountain's true technical capacity'. Those in favour of the dump argue that this would mean a single site could cope with the entire nation's nuclear waste for the foreseeable future. "We have a legal and moral obligation to get Yucca Mountain opened and operating," said Ward Sproat, director of the Office of Civilian Radioactive Waste Management. "Currently 55,000 metric tons of commercial spent nuclear fuel and defense high-level waste is being stored at more than 100 above- ground sites in 39 states, and that number grows by about 2,000 metric tons annually. "By entombing it deep in Yucca Mountain - a safe and secure permanent geologic repository - we can ensure public safety for thousands of generations." Yucca Mountain was approved by the Congress and the President as the site for the nation's first permanent spent nuclear fuel and high- level radioactive waste geologic repository in 2002 but the project has been plagued by delays and is already several years behind schedule. The chosen site is close to the Nevada Nuclear Testing Facility, open in the early 1950s and used as recently as 1992. It has the dubious claim to fame of having hosted the highest number of nuclear weapon detonations in the USA ------------------ Accused caught at nuclear site AT least two of the nine men accused of plotting a terrorist attack in Sydney were caught at the Lucas Heights nuclear plant, a court heard yesterday. In a document tendered to Penrith Local Court, police said Mazen Touma was questioned by an officer from the Counter Terrorist Command after he was seen riding a motorcycle at Lucas Heights on December 28, 2004. Touma was allegedly there with co-accused Abdul Rakib Hasan and another man named Mohammed. Counter Terrorism Command Detective Sergeant Garry Low questioned Touma on December 29 that year at his Bankstown home and was allegedly told by Touma that Mohammed wanted to buy the 125cc trail bike for his 12-year-old son and had asked to test-drive it. "I met them at Wangee Rd mosque at 4.30pm where we prayed and then they dropped their cars at my place and we went in my van to Lucas Heights," Touma allegedly told police. "When we got there we had problems so we didn't ride it for long, only a couple of hours. "As we were leaving the police drove past and I saw them start to follow us before they pulled us over and searched my van." Although Crown prosecutor Wendy Abraham QC did not specifically name the target for the alleged terrorist act in court, Lucas Heights has been listed as a possible target. During day three of the committal hearing for Touma, Hasan and their co-accused Bradley Umar Sariff Baladjam, Khaled and Moustafa Cheikho, Mohamed Ali Elomar, Mohammed Omar Jamal, Mirsad Mulahalilovic and Khaled Sharrouf, police told of their surveillance of the group, which involved listening devices, telephone intercepts and physical surveillance from July 8, 2004, until their arrests on November 8, 2005 ------------------ Barnwell site draws support Barnwell County?s love affair with a nuclear waste dump spilled into the Legislature during a hearing Tuesday on the future of a landfill that contributes to the county?s economy. Wearing "I support Barnwell" stickers and saying they need the more than $1 million the landfill produces each year for the community, county residents urged a panel of lawmakers not to close the dump to the nation next year as scheduled. But opponents of the 36-year-old landfill said a vote to keep the site open should not be based on Barnwell County?s economic desires. The low-level waste landfill has leaked, and other parts of South Carolina are vulnerable to contamination that could wash down the Savannah River, critics said. Communities in Beaufort County draw drinking water from the river or plan to in the near future, and the landfill needs to be closed, critics said. Barnwell County is "addicted" to the modest revenues generated by the landfill, and "we are paying the price," said former state Rep. Harriet Keyserling, who drove from Beaufort County to speak at Tuesday?s public hearing. "We ... are concerned about the Savannah River." Rep. Bill Herbkersman, R-Beaufort, said the state Legislature agreed in 2000 to close the landfill to the nation and that the Legislature shouldn?t pass a bill nullifying that law. This year?s bill, backed by landfill operator Chem-Nuclear, would allow the dump to remain open to the nation through 2023. It is the only commercial low-level site in the U.S. to take the most potent types of atomic refuse from any state. Current law restricts use of the landfill to South Carolina, Connecticut and New Jersey after next year. "We made a deal; let?s keep our end of the bargain," Herbkersman said. Columbia environmental lawyer Bob Guild, a Sierra Club official, told the committee the landfill has leaked on two different occasions: once in the mid-1970s and another time in the late 1990s, when a spill of radioactive waste flowed onto a nearby church?s land. Landfill operators say the spills have had little environmental impact. Tuesday?s hearing attracted more than 200 people and featured about 20 speakers. All told, more than 120 Barnwell landfill supporters showed up for the four-hour hearing. The session was so crowded legislators adjourned to a bigger room to accommodate the crowd, which had spilled into the hallway of a cramped meeting room. A subcommittee of the House Agriculture, Natural Resources and Environmental Affairs Committee, which held the hearing, is expected to vote in about two weeks whether to send the bill to the full committee. Landfill supporters praised Chem-Nuclear?s safety record and operation of the landfill, calling the company a good neighbor and a vital economic partner. The landfill contributes $1 million to $2 million annually to the county. "The economic future of Barnwell County and its 24,000 citizens who live there is in your hands," said Barnwell County Council chairman Keith Sloan, calling opponents of the measure "extreme" environmentalists. Sally Rogers, a lobbyist representing Chem-Nuclear, said the landfill will operate at a $3.6 million deficit if it closes to the nation next year as scheduled. She and a utility company representative said that with only South Carolina, Connecticut and New Jersey using the site, it could cause utility rates to rise to offset the losses. ---------------- UK Faces Energy Gap, Needs Quick Nuclear Decision LONDON -(Dow Jones)- The U.K. government needs to make a quick decision over a new generation of nuclear power plants or face a growing power generation gap and severe security of supply issues, according to a report from the U.K. Major Energy Users Council, or MEUC, released Wednesday. "If nuclear capacity cannot be built here perhaps we should build another plant in another European country with a trade link to access capacity," the report said. The MEUC, which represents major industrial, commercial, retail and public sector users of energy in the U.K., said the new generation of nuclear plants should be privately funded and backed up with long- term contracts with large power consumers. In July 2006, the U.K. government published its energy review, following a 12- week consultation, which confirmed its support for nuclear power. Environmental group Greenpeace last month won a legal challenge against this decision, which the judge said had been reached without the "fullest public consultation". Their victory could delay the construction of any potential new nuclear reactors in the country. MEUC also said U.K. gas prices weren't responding adequately to fundamentals of supply and demand due to a lack of liquidity and price transparency and called for further unbundling of utilities that have both supply and production businesses. The level of gas storage in the U.K. is also a concern, it added. The European carbon dioxide emissions trading system is an effective mechanism, the group said: "but Europe must hold back from higher taxes or tighter emissions standards until China and the U.S. follow suit by cutting their emissions." ------------------ Australians will accept nuclear power: Switkowski The head of the Prime Minister's nuclear task force, Dr Ziggy Switkowski, has predicted that Australians will accept uranium enrichment and nuclear power generation as part of action to curb greenhouse emissions. He has told a Sydney business lunch that he believes the Labor Party will take the first step by lifting policy bans on expanding uranium mining and exports. "When the ALP have their national convention in April this year, the leadership have foreshadowed for some time that they will be revisiting the ALP objections to this with a view to reversing their position on this," he said. "It may well be that this is the first aspect of the nuclear fuel cycle which sees bipartisan support for lifting restrictions on uranium mining in Australia." ----------------- Czechs, Slovaks urge EU to debate nuclear energy BRUSSELS - The Czech Republic and Slovakia will use the European Union?s summit this week to try to revive a debate on the merits of nuclear energy, diplomats said on Wednesday. The two EU newcomers believe countries that shun atom energy should reconsider their stance, as investing in nuclear power plants would help the bloc to achieve its goal of cutting carbon dioxide emissions to fight global warming. `The atmosphere around nuclear energy is changing. It?s the right time to start a debate on its merits,? said Jan Kohout, the Czech ambassador to the EU. A Slovak diplomat said: `We should start to discuss nuclear energy more openly. It is time to get rid of this taboo.? The diplomat, who asked not to be named, said the EU should set up a `Nuclear Energy Forum?, or a small body facilitating the exchange of information and joint actions. He suggested the Slovak capital of Bratislava host the organisation. France, which produces the majority of its electricity from nuclear power plants, tacitly supports giving atomic power more prominence in the bloc?s long-term energy plans, another EU diplomat said. Many EU members, led by Austria, oppose nuclear power as dangerous, expensive and leaving harmful waste, with memories still fresh of a nuclear reactor accident in Chernobyl, Ukraine in 1986. The executive European Commission did not take sides on the issue in its proposal for the EU?s long-term energy programme due to be discussed at the summit on Thursday and Friday. But analysts say nuclear energy is making a slow comeback in Europe as a result of high oil prices, safer technologies, fears of dependence on Russian oil and gas, and because it produces no `greenhouse gases? blamed for climate change. Finland has become the first of the `old? EU members in a decade to decide on building a nuclear power plant and German Chancellor Angela Merkel has called for extending the life of the country?s nuclear plants despite a deal to phase them out. Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland have recently launched talks on building a large nuclear facility by 2015, partly to become less dependent on Russian energy. Both Czech and Slovak diplomats said their countries would oppose setting a binding target for the EU to produce 20 percent of its energy from renewable sources. They said that unlike many EU member states their countries have little sun for solar energy, limited prospects for hydro-power and no sea coast, so winds tend to be weak. ------------------ Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From jdaitken at sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com Wed Mar 7 10:37:18 2007 From: jdaitken at sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com (Doug Aitken) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:37:18 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear Waste DUMP.... In-Reply-To: <45ED792A.25041.19813E5@sandyfl.cox.net> References: <45ED792A.25041.19813E5@sandyfl.cox.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20070307103257.04527370@us1061-pop3.mail.slb.com> At 04:22 PM 3/6/2007, Sandy Perle wrote: >............... >Officials push for Yucca nuclear dump > >WASHINGTON - The Energy Department unveiled legislation Tuesday to >spur construction of a national nuclear waste dump in Nevada Interesting to see the "subliminal" spin by the use of the term "dump"........ (inferring that the material will just be "dumped" on Yucca Mountain rather than carefully contained........) Once again, the press does it's duty to inform the public....... ;~) Doug Doug Aitken Office Phone Use Cell phone! QHSE Advisor Home Phone 713 797-0919 D&M Operations Support Cell Phone 713 562-8585 Schlumberger Technology Corporation From chemitech at chemitech.com Wed Mar 7 10:51:10 2007 From: chemitech at chemitech.com (Marco Caceci) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 17:51:10 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Neutron sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01f501c760d8$cf02d420$4001a8c0@acer> Being in the business of making neutron detectors now... I suppose, but I'd rather check, that one cannot buy "exempt" neutron sources in the US or in NL for that matter. So what would happen if I cook a few uCi Am and Li pills in the kitchen? Do I get to visit Guantanamo on an "exempt" US govnmt flight? How about pulsed neutron sources? Are there restrictions also on the D-D tubes? The experts' advise would be highly appreciated.... Marco Marco Caceci LQC sl www.radal.com From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 7 11:12:14 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:12:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] From Russia with love...Thallium Poisons U.S. Mother, Daughter in Moscow Message-ID: <345305.21213.qm@web81602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aAxLbT1odwEA&refer=us_ Thallium Poisons U.S. Mother, Daughter in Moscow (Update3) By Bradley Cook and Henry Meyer March 6 (Bloomberg) -- A mother and daughter from the U.S. have been hospitalized in Moscow after being poisoned with thallium, Russian officials said. The U.S. Embassy confirmed that the two are in a hospital. Embassy officials are in contact with the family of Marina and Yana Kovoletsky and are providing assistance, an embassy spokeswoman said today by telephone. She declined to give her name, citing government policy. The women were taken Feb. 24 to the Sklifosovsky clinic, where it took doctors four days to determine they had been poisoned with thallium, said the Moscow branch of the sanitary inspection agency, Rospotrebnadzor. Thallium is a highly toxic metallic element used in products ranging from photocells to rat poison. Moscow police are tracing the women's movements before they were hospitalized and testing people they came into contact with, the Interfax news agency said. Investigators said the women, who were born in the Soviet Union in 1958 and 1981 and emigrated to the U.S. in 1989, could have been poisoned before entering Russia and may seek the help of U.S. law enforcement officials, the news service said. Only a small circle of people would be capable of getting their hands on thallium, said Lev Fyodorov, head of the Union for Chemical Safety, a Russian nongovernmental organization. He added that the case deserved close attention. The radioactive isotope thallium-201 was used in 2003 to assassinate Russian lawmaker and journalist Yuri Shchekochikhin, who wrote about organized crime and corruption in Moscow. Condition Serious The women are in ``moderately serious'' condition, Rospotrebnadzor said. In November last year, Alexander Litvinenko, a Kremlin critic who had worked in Russia's FSB intelligence agency, died in a London hospital after exposure to a rare radioactive substance, polonium-210. The British doctors treating him initially suspected thallium poisoning. In a deathbed statement, Litvinenko accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of ordering his murder, an accusation the Kremlin later called ``absurd.'' To contact the reporters on this story: Bradley Cook in Moscow at bcook7 at bloomberg.net ; Henry Meyer in Moscow at hmeyer4 at bloomberg.net Last Updated: March 6, 2007 11:52 EST Roy Herren --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Wed Mar 7 14:46:34 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 12:46:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070306181602.009f6ec0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <327232.63976.qm@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> Yes, that would make sense. I remember that story about the missing B-29. --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 6 > > This was my mistake. I received a private > e-mail advising me that > the airplane was a B-29. My apologies for the > error. > > Steven Dapra > > > At 01:42 PM 3/6/07 -0800, John Jacobus wrote: > >Was the plane a DC-3 or the military equivalent, > the > >C-47. > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Wed Mar 7 14:54:54 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 12:54:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear Waste DUMP.... In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20070307103257.04527370@us1061-pop3.mail.slb.com> Message-ID: <126189.61935.qm@web54309.mail.yahoo.com> I always thought that Northern New Jersey around the Bayway refinery was a dump. --- Doug Aitken wrote: > At 04:22 PM 3/6/2007, Sandy Perle wrote: > >............... > >Officials push for Yucca nuclear dump > > > >WASHINGTON - The Energy Department unveiled > legislation Tuesday to > >spur construction of a national nuclear waste dump > in Nevada > > Interesting to see the "subliminal" spin by the use > of the term "dump"........ > > (inferring that the material will just be "dumped" > on Yucca Mountain rather > than carefully contained........) > > Once again, the press does it's duty to inform the > public....... > ;~) > Doug > > > Doug Aitken Office Phone Use > Cell phone! > QHSE Advisor Home Phone 713 > 797-0919 > D&M Operations Support Cell Phone 713 562-8585 > Schlumberger Technology Corporation > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From edaxon at satx.rr.com Wed Mar 7 19:41:59 2007 From: edaxon at satx.rr.com (Eric D) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 19:41:59 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Exempt Quantities and Sources Below Regulatory Concern Message-ID: <003101c76122$f6c3adf0$0b00a8c0@D8RSR871> This Email was sparked by a comment Franz Sch?nhofer made in an earlier post. I am curious about how other nations handle the issue of sources that are either exempt from regulation or are so low that they are below regulatory concern. Any and all information would be appreciated. Eric Daxon From sjd at swcp.com Wed Mar 7 21:38:55 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:38:55 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Han Kang's epidemiology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070307203444.009f15c0@mail.swcp.com> March 7, 2007 Steven Dapra wrote: James -- why don't you answer *my* question about Han Kang's alleged 2.2 increased risk? Remember? The one he made in Gulf War Review. See my e-mail to RADSAFE of Feb. 28. Did his claim ever pass peer review, was it published, and if so, what is the citation? My reply, paragraphy by paragraph, Salsman, then Dapra. JS (James Salsman): Think about it: Kang publishes a 1.8 risk ratio (2.8 for children of female 1991 combat-deployed troops) in Annals of Epidemiology in 2001, and critics say that the self-reported surveys must have been mistaken -- our fighting men and women, the critics say, must have been lying about their own kids health. SD (Steven Dapra) This is another example of James Salsman's resounding dishonesty. Kang et al. reported a 1.80 crude Odds Ratio for moderate to severe adverse outcomes among liveborn infants to male Gulf War veterans. He reported a 2.80 adjusted Odds Ratio for moderate to severe adverse outcomes among liveborn infants to female Gulf War veterans. Why is JS playing pick-and-choose? Could it be because these are the highest Odds Ratios in the moderate to severe category? What's the matter, James? Have you no sense of decency at long last? Self-reported studies must be verified by examining medical records. NOBODY is accusing anybody of lying about anyone's health. JS Dr. Margaret Ryan, whose DoD Birth and Infant Health Registry at the Naval Health Research Center is charged with publication of the reproductive health records which Kang and Araneta had been summarizing independently of each other, abruptly stops publishing tabulated statistics in 2001, writes a letter in response to Araneta's article (which echoed Kang's claims), saying that Araneta's methodology was flawed without saying why, and then co-authors a whitewash with Pat Doyle -- who detected the same increase, by the way, but discounted it as "reporting error" in her own paper -- calling the 80% increase in birth defects "modest." SD Where was Ryan's letter published? Please give a citation, and a citation to the germane article by Araneta. Give the citation to the paper by Doyle that you call "her own paper." The Ryan-Doyle "whitewash" paper appears to be "Reproductive health of Gulf War veterans" (Doyle et al. 2006). On p. 574, Doyle et al. refer to the paper by Kang et al. in Annals of Epidemiology, and to a 2004 paper by Doyle et al. Continuing on p. 574, Doyle et al. then write, "Both reported some evidence of a modest increase in risk of birth defect for male veterans' offspring born after the war, although cautious interpretations were offered because of concern about reporting bias." I can't comment directly on your (JS's) "80% increase" claim because as far as I have not read that paper. However, Doyle, Ryan, and their co-author wrote that there was a modest increase in "risk," NOT an increase in actual birth defects. JS So Dr. Kang goes back and reviews 700+ medical records, and finds that the number of birth defects has increased 20%. He publishes that in his agency newsletter. SD According to "Gulf War Review," (GWR) (Nov. 2003, p. 7), Kang is a "VA researcher." I think it's stretching things a little to call GWR Kang's "agency newsletter." By the way, above you said someone (I can't tell who) reported an "80% increase" in birth defects. Now, you (JS), are waving around Kang and his mere 20%. Are you going to fulminate about an 80% increase, or about a 20% increase? Why don't you get your story straight, or at least decide what will be the object of your blustering. Furthermore, Kang did not publish any 20% increase in GWR, at least not in the Nov. 2003 issue. According to a footnote to an article with no byline, " . . . Dr. Kang and his colleagues concluded that the risk of birth defects in children of deployed male veterans still was about 2.2 times that of non-deployed veterans." (p.10) To reiterate, Kang did not publish anything. And now you (JS), have gone from Kang's 2.2 increased risk to saying he found "the number of birth defects has increased 20%." What are you doing, James? Is this Modern Math? Are you reading any of this stuff before you write about it? Do you proofread what you write? Or are you so confused you don't know what you are doing? Finally, what is the basis for your claim that Kang reviewed "700+ medical records"? JS Then Eric Daxon lies that Kang actually found a decrease after medical records review, not an increase. SD Can't you do anything but call people liars? JS I spoke to Dr. Kang not too long ago, and yes, he is seeking publication of his most recent findings in the peer reviewed medical literature. Please phone him yourself and ask about it if you are curious. His telephone number is 202-745-8249. SD It has been over three years since the footnote said Kang concluded there was a 2.2 increase in risk. According to GWR (Nov. 2003), his research was "currently undergoing peer review." Kang's Annals paper took seven months to make it into print, Araneta in Birth Defects Research took eight months, and Penman in Military Medicine took five months. If Kang can't get his 2.2 (or 20%) published in three years, perhaps his claim has no merit. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com REFERENCE Doyle, P., Maconochie, N., and Ryan, M. Reproductive health of Gulf War Veterans. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B (2006); 361, 571-584. At 08:29 PM 3/6/07 -0800, James Salsman wrote: >Steven Dapra wrote: > >>James -- why don't you answer *my* question about Han Kang's >>alleged 2.2 increased risk? Remember? The one he made in Gulf War >>Review. See my e-mail to RADSAFE of Feb. 28. Did his claim ever >>pass peer review, was it published, and if so, what is the citation? [edit] From LNMolino at aol.com Wed Mar 7 22:42:23 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 23:42:23 EST Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear Waste DUMP.... Message-ID: In a message dated 3/7/2007 3:08:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: I always thought that Northern New Jersey around the Bayway refinery was a dump. it is I ought to know as 37 year (former) resident of NJ. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From luke.mccormick at dhs.gov Thu Mar 8 05:08:58 2007 From: luke.mccormick at dhs.gov (Mccormick, Luke I) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 06:08:58 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Neutron sources Message-ID: If you are working with D-D neutron generators, you would fall under OSHA regulations in 29 CFR 1096. Additionally depending on which State you are in you may have additonal State regulations and licensing requirements. ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: [ RadSafe ] Neutron sources Author: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl Date: 3/7/2007 11:51 AM Being in the business of making neutron detectors now... I suppose, but I'd rather check, that one cannot buy "exempt" neutron sources in the US or in NL for that matter. So what would happen if I cook a few uCi Am and Li pills in the kitchen? Do I get to visit Guantanamo on an "exempt" US govnmt flight? How about pulsed neutron sources? Are there restrictions also on the D-D tubes? The experts' advise would be highly appreciated.... Marco Marco Caceci LQC sl www.radal.com _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jrvollm at sbcglobal.net Thu Mar 8 07:55:03 2007 From: jrvollm at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Vollmer) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 05:55:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Electronic Personal Neutron Dosimeters Message-ID: <20070308135503.21452.qmail@web83607.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am interested in other list users experiences with Neutron EPDs. We are evaluating implementing them for use. Jeffrey S. Vollmer, CHP From yravello at ipen.gob.pe Thu Mar 8 08:30:06 2007 From: yravello at ipen.gob.pe (Yuri Ravello) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:30:06 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Exempt Quantities and Sources Below Regulatory Concern In-Reply-To: <003101c76122$f6c3adf0$0b00a8c0@D8RSR871> Message-ID: <001b01c7618e$45c95060$080c0a0a@IPEN.GOB.PE> Dear Eric, In Peru (South America Country), the National Authority has a legal norm the use the recommendations from IAEA BSS-115 to exempt sources. My best regards, Lic. Yuri Ravello Evaluador-Inspector Oficina T?cnica de la Autoridad Nacional Instituto Peruano de Energ?a Nuclear Calle Justo Vigil 456 - Magdalena del Mar Tel?fono: +51.1.4631170 o +51.1.4631171 Fax: +51.1.4631166 "Este mensaje electr?nico y sus documentos adjuntos, s?lo son para conocimiento y uso de la persona(s) y/o instituci?n a quien va dirigido. Si usted no es el destinatario(s), agradeceremos se abstenga de copiarlos, divulgarlos o usarlos, as? como agradeceremos comunique este error a la siguiente direcci?n ipen at ipen.gob.pe y borre de su equipo este mensaje y los documentos adjuntos en caso contenga alguno. La lectura de este mensaje presupone que usted comprende y acepta los t?rminos de este aviso" -----Mensaje original----- De: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] En nombre de Eric D Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 07 de marzo de 2007 20:42 Para: radsafe at radlab.nl Asunto: [ RadSafe ] Exempt Quantities and Sources Below Regulatory Concern This Email was sparked by a comment Franz Sch?nhofer made in an earlier post. I am curious about how other nations handle the issue of sources that are either exempt from regulation or are so low that they are below regulatory concern. Any and all information would be appreciated. Eric Daxon _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Este mensaje electr?nico y sus documentos adjuntos, s?lo son para conocimiento y uso de la persona(s) y/o Instituci?n a quien va dirigido. Si usted no es el destinatario(s), agradeceremos se abstenga de copiarlos, divulgarlos o usarlos, as? como agradeceremos comunique este error a la siguiente direcci?n postmaster at ipen.gob.pe y borre de su equipo este mensaje y los documentos adjuntos en caso contenga alguno. La lectura de este mensaje presupone que usted comprende y acepta los t?rminos de este aviso From mborisky at arl.army.mil Thu Mar 8 14:23:43 2007 From: mborisky at arl.army.mil (Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:23:43 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: <000101c761b4$7ddfe060$49197254@pc1> References: <000101c761b4$7ddfe060$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Franz, Instead of calming down? I though we were done with this discussion. And I moved it off-line so the rest of RADSAF would not be subjected to it. It appears you moved it back on-line. I hope this is our last exchange, and if not, the last one on-line. My apologies to the RADSAF community. Anyway, I of course disagee with what you have written below or I never would have entered this dialogue with you. But if you are so innocent as you say you are, then you will have no difficulty meeting my challenge to you to communicate with us all on RADSAF for 1 year without making any personal insults or political jabs. We will be watching, and I sincerely hope you succeed. But you are already off to a bad start. Your stating in the message below on a public forum that "very few of James Salsman's comments are interesting" is a mild example of the kind of unprovoked personal jabs I am talking about. It achieve nothing constructive, and only poisions the waters. Mike A word is dead when it is said, some say. I say, it just begins to live that day. Emily Dickenson -----Original Message----- From: Franz Sch?nhofer [mailto:franz.schoenhofer at chello.at] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 2:04 PM To: Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO); RADSAFE Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Mr. Borisky, Instead of calming down you obviously intend to escalate this discussion. Sorry I will not satisfy your claim for escalation. I think I have never started any controversial discussion - if so, please provide evidence. I have (not) always reacted to insults and provocations from outside, but I think this is my right to do so. I am not the center of every conflict on RADSAFE. I have since long refrained to participate in the discussion on the messages of Howard Long, though I sometimes send him a friendly message, nor James Salsman - though I hope that he does not get to much frustrated, because only a few (really only a very few!) of his comments are interesting. What you call "conflict" is in my opinion "discussion". If you dislike my comments, you are cordially asked to take the most simple countermeasure - namely to block messages from me. Marcel has suggested it in his message. I am happy about Marcels decision to stop this incredible discussion. Though: Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO) [mailto:mborisky at arl.army.mil] Gesendet: Dienstag, 06. M?rz 2007 14:16 An: Franz Sch?nhofer Betreff: RE: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Franz, You provide more of the same, as I expected. Only you would introduce terms like "hateful" and "banning" and "personal non grata" into this discussion - uncalled for escalation and drama. If you saw the error of your ways, then you would have stopped your insults and provocation long ago and not be the center of every conflict on RADSAF. With your knowledge of statistics, ask yourself how likely it is that you are at the center of nearly all RADSAF conflicts, and then ask yourself how likely this is due to chance. Think about it. It is you Franz, what you say, and how you say it. BE NICE! I have a challenge for you, see if you can communicate with us on RADSAF for 1 year without making any personal insults or political jabs. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Franz Sch?nhofer [mailto:franz.schoenhofer at chello.at] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 4:58 PM To: Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO); 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Mike, or Mr. Borisky or Mr. Civ.ARL/ADLO, Your first message seemed to me to be a polite one and therefore I had intended to give a detailed answer. Excuse that in the meantime I took advantage of the sunny weather to walk outside. Now I have found two messages I can only classify as hateful. So I answer only very short to your points, without any unnecessary politeness. I only react to messages on RADSAFE, I never raise any "hateful" comments myself. I do not endorse banning somebody from the list, though in my opinion one could consider it for a person using Nazi-speak, who insists on using it again and again. From his recent posts I could draw the conclusion that he uses the term of "Uebermenschen" for another countries population. Your claim that I raise conflicts and use tactics (??) and spread obvious and subtle anti-US sentiments is ridiculous like everything you write in this context - do you yourself believe in it? My comments on Mr. Perle have been well founded and in context with the most recent discussion I have clearly declared that he is a persona non grata for me and that I will not react any more to his insults. You are a good example of US persons neglecting anything which occurs outside the USA - and in the context of opposition to wars even neglecting the US public opinion. Believe me, that there is to my knowledge no country in Europe, not to talk about other parts of the world, which would mentally support the Iraq war. Whether you like my comments after I have been rather more than less being provocated is your personal opinion. But to claim "in the name of ....." that I should be banned from the list is probably understandable from the point of view that you are a member of the US military. I have been very happy to receive via RADSAFE the opinions of other RADSAFErs, which clearly support my opinion. Even more I have been happy about the many messages received by me personally, though it is not a good sign that people seem not to dare to expose their opinion openly. I still have excellent contacts to my US friends and collegues. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO) [mailto:mborisky at arl.army.mil] Gesendet: Montag, 05. M?rz 2007 19:39 An: John Jacobus; Franz "Sch?nhofer; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental) Betreff: RE: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE John, Thanks! In my view, this is an extreme case. I didn't expect to have to endure political insults and needling on RADSAF. I consider us a family of professionals, and I don't like seeing my colleagues insulted and instigated into unnecessary conflict. List-owner please help. Mike -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 12:57 PM To: Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO); Franz "Sch?nhofer; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental) Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Mike, If you have any problems with Freanz's posting I suggest you correspond with him, or use the delete key. Only the List-owner can refuse to let individuals post on this list server. We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree. --- "Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)" wrote: > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > Franz, > > I request once again that you "knock it off". You are in my opinion > the only person on this list serve that makes inappropriate postings > and creates problems. You seem to thrive on and enjoy conflict, and > you use subtle and obvious techniques to > generate it. Seems you are constantly looking for > opportunities to make postings with obvious or subtle anti-US > sentiments. I can assure you there are other quiet RADSAF members > besides me that recognize your strategies and motives and don't > appreciate it. I would recommend that you eliminate your kind sign > offs with any reference to "kind regards" or "respect" as I, and > venture to say others, see them as completely disingenuous. "Be nice" > or please take your conflict elsewhere. And please leave Sandy and > everyone else alone and don't instigate them into your arena of > conflict and negativity. I am actually surprised that the moderator > allows you to continue posting. > > Mike Borisky > Army Research Lab > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Franz Sch?nhofer > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:55 PM > To: 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. > Rozental (J. J. Rozental) > Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak > > Since I got tired of the subject I have not reacted to any message on > that subject since a long time, but what I yesterday read in the > discussion between John and Mr. Perle motivated me to plan to react > tomorrow, because what is distributed by Mr. Perle is just > hairraising. But his two last messages are so unacceptable that I > write this comment now. All attempts to intimitate me and ridicule me > are in vain, because such a character like Mr. > Perle cannot insult me. John, you know that I always have esteemed > your contributions I understand (I do not understand questions of > epidemiology and similar ones). Now I have to congratulate you, > because until now you are obviously the only US-citizen on RADSAFE to > speak out clearly against this paranoid "safety thinking", which seems > to be only used to intimitade people, subject them to humiliation > (been shown naked on screens) and to undermine the human rights and of > course to raise the profit of quite a few companies claiming that they > manufacture instruments and devices for "safety". I know more than > well, that these are not only my thoughts, but these are the thoughts > of many million US-citizens and influential groups. > Practically all of my US-friends and collegues are among them. > > So much now, but the main reason that I have not waited until > tomorrow, is, that Mr. Perle used the expression "sub-human" before > and even insisted on these words in his latest contribution. This is > clearly Nazi-Speak - in German "Untermenschen", a label given by > Nazi-Germany to non-arian people like all Slavs, including Russians, > Ukrainians, Poles, Czech, Slovenians, Serbs, Montenegrinians etc. > etc., the Romas (gypsies), Arabs and especially Jews. (It is > intersting that the Romas are genuine Arians.) I do not expect that > Mr. Perle has ever been to Auschwitz or Majdanek or any of the other > Nazi-extinction camps, where "sub-humans" were killed daily by the > thousands or rather tens of thousands like insects by using hydrogen > cyanide. I have been there and therefore I am more than allergic for > such words. > > Now I ask whether RADSAFE is the right place to use Nazi-speak. > Another US citizen has been banned many years ago from the list, > because he was calling an international organisation for "Gestapo". It > seems that this expression throws a light on Mr. Perles character. > More light I'll shed on him and his queer opinions tomorrow (like "he" > wants to be safe on flights and therefore everybody else has to > undergo humiliating procedures, not raising at all safety and > security). > > It is half past midnight and again I will go to sleep. The most recent > attempt to insult me by Mr. > Perle on 15 Feb. is ridiculous: I will not take an aspirin, because I > take it everyday in the morning according to my doctors advice. I do > not take something called "Luvox". I do not even know what it is, but > this only confirms that Mr. Perle is of the opinion that everybody in > this world should know US-brandnames and in a broader view succumb to > any US interest and request. Since I might concede that Mr. Perle > might be aware, that an Austrian does not know "Luvox" I take the > alternative conclusion that he was writing this for the US-market of > his company. > > Again, John, my deepest respect. Mr. Perle, please never adress me > personally again. > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > MinRat i.R. > Habicherg. 31/7 > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > AUSTRIA > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Sandy Perle > Gesendet: Freitag, 02. M?rz 2007 23:18 > An: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still > are in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping > the plane to fly to another country? > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist > is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the > risks we face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were > not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the > problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have > shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view > of the Japanese during WWII. > They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a > > plane with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It > > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were > implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves .. and that reason > > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred to die along > > with the thousands of innocents that they > murdered. You can't compare > > apples and oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE From lewis at radonmine.com Thu Mar 8 09:57:46 2007 From: lewis at radonmine.com (Patricia Lewis) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 08:57:46 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine Message-ID: <003201c7619a$8e0c3110$6501a8c0@HOME> I apologize for duplicate mailings on this paper. Follow up with author if interested. Best, Patricia Lewis Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine http://www.radonmine.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IJLR Final vol 3 no 4 2006.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 63100 bytes Desc: not available URL: From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Thu Mar 8 11:47:54 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 18:47:54 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] From Russia with love...Thallium Poisons U.S. Mother, Daughter in Moscow In-Reply-To: <345305.21213.qm@web81602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c761a9$edbb9790$49197254@pc1> Roy, There was a similar thread after the first news came, that Mr. Litwinenko was poisoned by Thallium, alternatively Tl-201. Both is nonsense, because both nonradioactive Tl and Tl-201 can be detected in urine within a few minutes. The same is btw true for Po-210 using LSC methods, if it has been adminstered in lethal concentrations. Therefore I cannot understand, why doctors of Litwinenko suspected a Tl poisoning - which could have been excluded as mentioned within a few minutes. I as well as millions of other people have been subjected to so called "stress tests" in cardiological investigations. The amount of Tl-201 used would in no way produce any health consequences, the amount of "poisonous" elemental or rather ionic poisonous Tl is ridiculously low. I mentioned that some time ago on RADSAFE. Cui bono? To what advantage? Answer: to the massmedia distributing these sensations in order to raise their sale of newspapers and their "impact factor" and therefore income from advertising. Thank you anyway for forwarding these news! Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von ROY HERREN Gesendet: Mittwoch, 07. M?rz 2007 18:12 An: radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: [ RadSafe ] From Russia with love...Thallium Poisons U.S. Mother,Daughter in Moscow http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aAxLbT1odwEA&refer=us_ Thallium Poisons U.S. Mother, Daughter in Moscow (Update3) By Bradley Cook and Henry Meyer March 6 (Bloomberg) -- A mother and daughter from the U.S. have been hospitalized in Moscow after being poisoned with thallium, Russian officials said. The U.S. Embassy confirmed that the two are in a hospital. Embassy officials are in contact with the family of Marina and Yana Kovoletsky and are providing assistance, an embassy spokeswoman said today by telephone. She declined to give her name, citing government policy. The women were taken Feb. 24 to the Sklifosovsky clinic, where it took doctors four days to determine they had been poisoned with thallium, said the Moscow branch of the sanitary inspection agency, Rospotrebnadzor. Thallium is a highly toxic metallic element used in products ranging from photocells to rat poison. Moscow police are tracing the women's movements before they were hospitalized and testing people they came into contact with, the Interfax news agency said. Investigators said the women, who were born in the Soviet Union in 1958 and 1981 and emigrated to the U.S. in 1989, could have been poisoned before entering Russia and may seek the help of U.S. law enforcement officials, the news service said. Only a small circle of people would be capable of getting their hands on thallium, said Lev Fyodorov, head of the Union for Chemical Safety, a Russian nongovernmental organization. He added that the case deserved close attention. The radioactive isotope thallium-201 was used in 2003 to assassinate Russian lawmaker and journalist Yuri Shchekochikhin, who wrote about organized crime and corruption in Moscow. Condition Serious The women are in ``moderately serious'' condition, Rospotrebnadzor said. In November last year, Alexander Litvinenko, a Kremlin critic who had worked in Russia's FSB intelligence agency, died in a London hospital after exposure to a rare radioactive substance, polonium-210. The British doctors treating him initially suspected thallium poisoning. In a deathbed statement, Litvinenko accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of ordering his murder, an accusation the Kremlin later called ``absurd.'' To contact the reporters on this story: Bradley Cook in Moscow at bcook7 at bloomberg.net ; Henry Meyer in Moscow at hmeyer4 at bloomberg.net Last Updated: March 6, 2007 11:52 EST Roy Herren --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Thu Mar 8 17:07:36 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 15:07:36 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine In-Reply-To: <003201c7619a$8e0c3110$6501a8c0@HOME> References: <003201c7619a$8e0c3110$6501a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: Patrica This is an interesting subject as any good things about radiation dose always is! FYI, when I worked for Gordon Stewart and Doug Simpson (ex ICRP people) at AECL, CRNL, one of the items of interest in the Bioassay Lab. was a radium "belt". I was told that it had belonged to the first Director of the Lab, who (I as told) slept with it because "radiation was good". John John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Lewis" To: "Barbra Erickson" ; "RAD-SCI-L" Cc: "Scott, Bobby" ; "Ted Rockwell" ; "Edward Calabrese" ; "Ron Mitchel" ; "Jerry Cuttler" ; ; "TD Luckey" ; "M Vogel @MSU" ; "Myron Pollycove" ; "Ludwig Feinendegen" ; ; "Peter Deetjen" ; "Christoph K?stinger" ; "Robert J. Cihak" ; "Jim Muckerheide" Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:57 AM Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine >I apologize for duplicate mailings on this paper. Follow up with author if >interested. > > Best, > Patricia Lewis > Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine > http://www.radonmine.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From edaxon at satx.rr.com Thu Mar 8 20:06:52 2007 From: edaxon at satx.rr.com (Eric D) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 20:06:52 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Exempt Quantities and Sources Below Regulatory Concern In-Reply-To: <000001c76195$c8a311e0$49197254@pc1> References: <003101c76122$f6c3adf0$0b00a8c0@D8RSR871> <000001c76195$c8a311e0$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <003001c761ef$9b28aa40$0b00a8c0@D8RSR871> Franz Sch?nhofer wrote >> Though I speak and much better read at least a few languages of the European Union (German, English, French, Swedish, Danish, Spanish, Italian) this comparison of legislation would be worth a PhD-thesis!<< I don't know about a PhD thesis, but I am going to compile a comparison of the various regulations and make it available to RADSAFE. I am curious to compare the degree of autonomy given to local states, provinces (etc.) with respect to radiation regulations, the basis for the regulations, and how low-level and natural sources are handled. I am somewhat familiar with EU regulations (and will be more so after reading the EU regs) but know relatively little about any other regulations. If anyone wants to assist, please contact me separately. Eric Daxon -----Original Message----- From: Franz Sch?nhofer [mailto:franz.schoenhofer at chello.at] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 9:24 AM To: 'Eric D'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Exempt Quantities and Sources Below Regulatory Concern Eric and RADSAFErs interested in this topic, Also to this question we have in Austria a very practicable and simple solution. Those who know me and my heavy criticism against (especially Austrian) bureaucracy might be surprised by the above statement!) The European Union Radiation Protection Directive contains regulations for radionuclide concentrations and quantities exempt from the provisions of the Directive. The address of it is http://ec.europa.eu/energy/nuclear/radioprotection/dfoc/legislation/9629.en. pdf. Look at Annex I. I hope I copied the address correctly, otherwise it can be found on google using the keyword "96/29/Euratom". The text on this address is in English, it is of course available in all other languages of the member states of the European Union by replacing the "en" by the appropriate abbreviation of the other language. These exempt quantities have been implemented into Austrian law (if I remember correctly with one or two unimportant exceptions). To draw the legal conclusion: Any quantity or concentration being below these levels are in Austria not considered to be radioactive - therefore no license is necessary and no application to the authorities is necessary. The same is true for the discharge of such substances. Austria is by history and law a federal state. The "states" ("Bundesl?nder") are really small and have survived since the middle ages to some extent even in the constitution of 1920 (?) after the Habsburg empire had previously broken down. Certain tasks are the duty of the "states", but most are duties of the federal government. The federal government can delegate certain duties to the provincial government. Many decades ago it was fortunately decided by the highest court, that radiation protection is a matter of health and therefore the responsibility of the federal government. If this would not have been stated, we otherwise would have now in Austria for a population of 8 million inhabitants 9 different radiation protection laws, different for each "state". This does not change the fact, that for some duties the provincial governments are responsible. They are very eager to harmonize their procedures, when there is for instance the question of handling cases like new x-ray-systems, computer tomographs, shielding of application rooms of radiopharmaceuticals etc. etc. For this purpose there is once a year a meeting of all those authorites - both on federal and provincial level - involved in licensing. Since I do not participate any more, because I am retired, I know from my previous involvement and the reports of my collegues, that they had always been and still are held in perfect harmony, contrary to almost all political meetings. Almost all use the German word "Du" (you) instead of the usual formal "Sie" (in English probably "thou"). There are not different federal authorities with different conditions for licenses. I could imagine after having read at RADSAFE thousands of complaints and questions searching for advice in the jungle of licensing and referring to the pitfalls of US legislation, that such a system might be a heaven for a license applicant in the USA. Well, Eric, so much about Austria. Now let us talk about other countries in the EU: The Directive is a kind of a guideline. Very important is the freedom in some of the recommendations given to member states to deviate either to higher or lower values from the recommended ones or to implement their own regulations on topics like exposure to natural sources, including Naturally Occurring Radioactive Material or exposure of airline personal. Similar conclusions are valid for the Drinking Water Directive as to the Indicative Dose of Radioactive Contaminants. National legislation has been issued by several member states. Though I speak and much better read at least a few languages of the European Union (German, English, French, Swedish, Danish, Spanish, Italian) this comparison of legislation would be worth a PhD-thesis! I hope you receive a lot of replies on RADSAFE. But you should be aware, that the attitude of some US hardliners to ridicule everything which comes from outside might belittle these information. In case I could be of help for you or other RADSAFErs, please contact me again. Do not expect me to solve all your commercial problems for sending or receiving radionuclides. Best regards. Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Eric D Gesendet: Donnerstag, 08. M?rz 2007 02:42 An: radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: [ RadSafe ] Exempt Quantities and Sources Below Regulatory Concern This Email was sparked by a comment Franz Sch?nhofer made in an earlier post. I am curious about how other nations handle the issue of sources that are either exempt from regulation or are so low that they are below regulatory concern. Any and all information would be appreciated. Eric Daxon _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Thu Mar 8 16:47:53 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 23:47:53 +0100 Subject: AW: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear plant planning moves ahead In-Reply-To: <45E72BA1.7090604@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <000001c761d3$d9b9e1a0$49197254@pc1> Hi, everyone on RADSAFE, Unfortunately the original message by Jaro has been lost on my computer. Nevertheless I can confirm that according to our extremely anti-nuclear mass media in Austria it was distributed, that 2000L of cooling water were according to Czech authorities liberated by an open valve and were easily collected in the recipient which had been provided to cover this case. According to the Czech authorities and repeated by Austrian authorities and mass media, no radioactivity was liberated. The first one to claim radioactive contamination would in my opinion have been the Austrian mass media, but it obviously was not the case. I wonder, how obviously US mass media got the "radioactive contamination" from. I do not blame Mr. Perle, because he simply copies mass media messages. However it was distributed in Austrian mass media today, that a second release of cooling water to the extent of 1 m3 occurred. But the coverage of this alleged release is very weak. The agreement (also called the "Melk protocol" for the beautiful place of Melk with a great monastary above the Danube river) made between Austria and the Czech Republic states that any "relevant event" in and around the Temelin Nuclear Power Plant has to be notified for the Austrian authorities within 72 (seventy two!) hours. This recent incident was only notified after 50 (fifty!) hours. The question is whether this incident would have been to be notified at all according to the Melk Protocol. However: There seems to have no radioactive material been liberated. Nobody was put at risk. However some groups had their propaganda. I have read that some blockage of the transit stations between Austria and the Czech Republic occured. I saw one picture on the internet, about 15 to 20 people blocking a road in such a way, that any car could go across. I did not see any declared anti-nuclear greens nor anybody from the multi-national concern Greenpeace or the several Austrian counterparts like Global 2000 and other ones. These are the facts, contrary to the various mass media. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Maury Siskel Gesendet: Donnerstag, 01. M?rz 2007 20:38 An: Franta, Jaroslav Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Awwright young man, you had better watch these embellishments or the atomic tooth fairy will smite thee with a blinding blue flash!!!! And they might impound thy keyboard! Your behavior is being surveiled .... Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) ===================== Franta, Jaroslav wrote: >I can see the great newsworthiness of this story..... > >"About 2 000 liters of radioactive water leaked.... to a special tank >through a special sewage system.... an open valve caused the leak." > >But I think that even with my amateurish journalistic talents, I could >easily top that: > >"Tens of thousands of liters of radioactive water leaked for days.... from >the reactor to a special steam > -----------------snipped------------- _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From baine at kenyon.edu Fri Mar 9 07:58:38 2007 From: baine at kenyon.edu (Emily Bain) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:58:38 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Department of Health and Human Services Online Toolkit: Medical Response to Radiation Emergencies Message-ID: <45F1680E.2060208@kenyon.edu> Good morning, FYI United States Department of Health and Human Services new tool: radiation emergency medical response tool (please refer to the following note). Best regards, Emily Bain Date: March 8, 2007 For Release: Immediately Contact: HHS Press Office (202) 690-6343 Headline: HHS LAUNCHES NEW ONLINE TOOLKIT FOR MEDICAL RESPONSES TO RADIATION EMERGENCIES HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt today announced the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has developed a new downloadable online diagnostic and treatment toolkit designed for health care providers, primarily physicians, who may have to provide medical care during a radiation incident. The new information package includes easy-to-follow procedures for diagnosis and management of radiation contamination and exposure, guidance for the use of radiation medical countermeasures, and a variety of other features to facilitate medical responses. All of this is now available on the Radiation Event Medical Management (REMM) Web site (http://REMM.NLM.GOV). "The REMM toolkit is part of our effort to improve public health emergency preparedness and response," Secretary Leavitt said. "It reflects the department's commitment to help instill a spirit of preparedness throughout our nation." Guidance on diagnosis and treatment will help health care providers by describing: * types of radiation emergencies they may face * initial medical actions at the incident site and or medical facility * key steps in patient care Critical information is presented in a format that will quickly and efficiently orient and guide health care providers during a mass casualty radiation event. In addition to online access, federal, state and local medical response teams will be able to download REMM information on laptop computers for quick access when they are deployed to a radiation incident or for training sessions. Users can also register for automatic e-mail updates whenever information is changed or added to the REMM Web site. Future plans include formatting the REMM material for use on Personal Digital Assistant (PDA) devices, additional multimedia graphics, and more topic areas, such as follow-up patient care of radiation's chronic effects. A team of subject matter experts from the HHS' Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response, the National Institutes of Health's National Cancer Institute and National Library of Medicine and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention collaborated on the development and design of the REMM tool. -- Emily Bain Office of Environmental Health and Safety Kenyon College 101 Allen House Gambier, OH 43022-9623 T 740/ 427-5575 F 740/ 427-5427 From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 9 10:45:27 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 16:45:27 +0000 Subject: AW: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News]Nuclear plant planning moves ahead In-Reply-To: <000001c761d3$d9b9e1a0$49197254@pc1> References: <45E72BA1.7090604@peoplepc.com> <000001c761d3$d9b9e1a0$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <1907269780-1173458732-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1903903004-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Some of the sources for the various news posting regarding Czech plant were found on EU wire serviefs as well as other international wire services. Of course once a story hits the wires, others pick up the feed and post it under their company name, AP, Reuters or Kyodo, for example. In the past all US postings regarding nuclear power were focused on the negative. It's nice to see a change of direction. Traveling in the Pacific, but still reading Radsafe, keeping up-to-date on happenings. Sandy Perle Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: Franz Sch?nhofer Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 23:47:53 To:"'Maury Siskel'" ,"'Franta, Jaroslav'" Cc:radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: AW: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Hi, everyone on RADSAFE, Unfortunately the original message by Jaro has been lost on my computer. Nevertheless I can confirm that according to our extremely anti-nuclear mass media in Austria it was distributed, that 2000L of cooling water were according to Czech authorities liberated by an open valve and were easily collected in the recipient which had been provided to cover this case. According to the Czech authorities and repeated by Austrian authorities and mass media, no radioactivity was liberated. The first one to claim radioactive contamination would in my opinion have been the Austrian mass media, but it obviously was not the case. I wonder, how obviously US mass media got the "radioactive contamination" from. I do not blame Mr. Perle, because he simply copies mass media messages. However it was distributed in Austrian mass media today, that a second release of cooling water to the extent of 1 m3 occurred. But the coverage of this alleged release is very weak. The agreement (also called the "Melk protocol" for the beautiful place of Melk with a great monastary above the Danube river) made between Austria and the Czech Republic states that any "relevant event" in and around the Temelin Nuclear Power Plant has to be notified for the Austrian authorities within 72 (seventy two!) hours. This recent incident was only notified after 50 (fifty!) hours. The question is whether this incident would have been to be notified at all according to the Melk Protocol. However: There seems to have no radioactive material been liberated. Nobody was put at risk. However some groups had their propaganda. I have read that some blockage of the transit stations between Austria and the Czech Republic occured. I saw one picture on the internet, about 15 to 20 people blocking a road in such a way, that any car could go across. I did not see any declared anti-nuclear greens nor anybody from the multi-national concern Greenpeace or the several Austrian counterparts like Global 2000 and other ones. These are the facts, contrary to the various mass media. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Maury Siskel Gesendet: Donnerstag, 01. M?rz 2007 20:38 An: Franta, Jaroslav Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Awwright young man, you had better watch these embellishments or the atomic tooth fairy will smite thee with a blinding blue flash!!!! And they might impound thy keyboard! Your behavior is being surveiled .... Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) ===================== Franta, Jaroslav wrote: >I can see the great newsworthiness of this story..... > >"About 2 000 liters of radioactive water leaked.... to a special tank >through a special sewage system.... an open valve caused the leak." > >But I think that even with my amateurish journalistic talents, I could >easily top that: > >"Tens of thousands of liters of radioactive water leaked for days.... from >the reactor to a special steam > -----------------snipped------------- _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From joseroze at netvision.net.il Fri Mar 9 10:59:24 2007 From: joseroze at netvision.net.il (Jose Julio Rozental) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 18:59:24 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Department of Health and Human Services Online Toolkit: Medical Response to Radiation Emergencies References: <45F1680E.2060208@kenyon.edu> Message-ID: <01b601c7626c$4ac4ccf0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Thank you After recent high level dialogue, we have received now a very important site. I would like also to add some IAEA's publications on this subject Jose Julio Rozental joseroze at netvision.net.il Israel GENERIC PROCEDURES FOR MEDICAL RESPONSE DURING A NUCLEAR OR RADIOLOGICAL EMERGENCY, IAEA, VIENNA, 2005 http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/EPR-MEDICAL-2005_web.pdf Medical Preparedness and Response - Educational Material http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/eprmedt/Start.pdf http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/eprmedt/Day_1/Day_1-2.pps Planning the Medical Response to Radiological Accidents Safety Reports Series No. 4 http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub1055_web.pdf Dosimetric and Medical Aspects of the Radiological Accident in Goi?nia in 1997 IAEA TECDOC Series No. 1009 http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/te_1009_prn.pdf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emily Bain" To: Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 3:58 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] Department of Health and Human Services Online Toolkit: Medical Response to Radiation Emergencies > Good morning, > FYI United States Department of Health and Human Services new tool: > radiation emergency medical response tool (please refer to the following > note). Best regards, > Emily Bain > > Date: March 8, 2007 > For Release: Immediately > Contact: HHS Press Office > (202) 690-6343 > > Headline: HHS LAUNCHES NEW ONLINE TOOLKIT FOR MEDICAL RESPONSES TO > RADIATION EMERGENCIES > > HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt today announced the Department of Health and > Human Services (HHS) has developed a new downloadable online diagnostic > and treatment toolkit designed for health care providers, primarily > physicians, who may have to provide medical care during a radiation > incident. > The new information package includes easy-to-follow procedures for > diagnosis and management of radiation contamination and exposure, > guidance for the use of radiation medical countermeasures, and a variety > of other features to facilitate medical responses. All of this is now > available on the Radiation Event Medical Management (REMM) Web site > (http://REMM.NLM.GOV). > "The REMM toolkit is part of our effort to improve public health > emergency preparedness and response," Secretary Leavitt said. "It > reflects the department's commitment to help instill a spirit of > preparedness throughout our nation." > > Guidance on diagnosis and treatment will help health care providers by > describing: > * types of radiation emergencies they may face > * initial medical actions at the incident site and or medical > facility > * key steps in patient care > Critical information is presented in a format that will quickly and > efficiently orient and guide health care providers during a mass > casualty radiation event. In addition to online access, federal, state > and local medical response teams will be able to download REMM > information on laptop computers for quick access when they are deployed > to a radiation incident or for training sessions. Users can also > register for automatic e-mail updates whenever information is changed or > added to the REMM Web site. > > Future plans include formatting the REMM material for use on Personal > Digital Assistant (PDA) devices, additional multimedia graphics, and > more topic areas, such as follow-up patient care of radiation's chronic > effects. A team of subject matter experts from the HHS' Office of the > Assistant > Secretary for Preparedness and Response, the National Institutes of > Health's National Cancer Institute and National Library of Medicine and > the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention collaborated on the > development and design of the REMM tool. > > -- > Emily Bain > Office of Environmental Health and Safety > Kenyon College > 101 Allen House > Gambier, OH 43022-9623 > T 740/ 427-5575 > F 740/ 427-5427 > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 9 13:24:27 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 11:24:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine In-Reply-To: <003201c7619a$8e0c3110$6501a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <664081.80188.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Interesting but not very conclusive. Pain is subjective, so the results are ancedotal. And there was no attempt to rule out a placebo effect. That being said, it the patient or client feels better, than that is a positive response. I expect that the patients or clients will return, and I wish them well. --- Patricia Lewis wrote: > I apologize for duplicate mailings on this paper. > Follow up with author if interested. > > Best, > Patricia Lewis > Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine > http://www.radonmine.com > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Fri Mar 9 13:55:53 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 14:55:53 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine In-Reply-To: <664081.80188.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08BC5C@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Hi John, In the science literature, you'll find that pain research produces results that are, scientifically, neither "subjective" nor "anecdotal." And this paper addresses range of motion. As stated in the paper, larger studies are needed; and perhaps in a larger potential population there could be stricter criteria for subject inclusion for subject comparisons. Regards, Jim Muckerheide >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl >[mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John Jacobus >Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:24 PM >To: Patricia Lewis; Barbra Erickson; RAD-SCI-L >Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott at mmp-mitc-1.state.ma.us; _Bobby?=; >Christoph K?stinger; Ted Rockwell; Edward Calabrese; Ron >Mitchel; =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jodi.Strzelczyk at UCHSC.edu?=; Jerry >Cuttler; Myron Pollycove; Ludwig Feinendegen; >=?ISO-8859-1?Q?radsafe at radlab.nl?=; Peter Deetjen; M Vogel >@MSU; TD Luckey; Robert J. Cihak; Jim Muckerheide >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion >assessment at radonmine > >Interesting but not very conclusive. Pain is >subjective, so the results are ancedotal. And there >was no attempt to rule out a placebo effect. > >That being said, it the patient or client feels >better, than that is a positive response. I expect >that the patients or clients will return, and I wish >them well. > >--- Patricia Lewis wrote: > >> I apologize for duplicate mailings on this paper. >> Follow up with author if interested. >> >> Best, >> Patricia Lewis >> Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine >> http://www.radonmine.com >> > _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing >> list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have >> read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be >> found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe >> and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >> > > > >+++++++++++++++++++ >"We must face the fact that the United States is neither >omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the >world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the >other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong >or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an >American solution to every world problem." >-- John F. Kennedy > >-- John >John Jacobus, MS >Certified Health Physicist >e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >_____________________ >Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate >in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. >http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and >understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other >settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > From lewis at radonmine.com Fri Mar 9 14:21:53 2007 From: lewis at radonmine.com (Patricia Lewis) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 13:21:53 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - References: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08BC5C@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <001101c76288$94897860$6501a8c0@HOME> Thanks Jim, For helping me emphasize that this paper addresses only Range of Motion (I took a moment to reread it). And Barbra and I are taking the investigation one step further to see if there is any blood response (SED, CRP, etc.) that goes along with the mobility improvements. You know I've been talking about a project like this for years. We'll be doing that this summer with the help of a local physician - and as our meager personal funds allow (funding from Pat and Barbra)! pat. Patricia Lewis Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine Boulder MT USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 12:55 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine Hi John, In the science literature, you'll find that pain research produces results that are, scientifically, neither "subjective" nor "anecdotal." And this paper addresses range of motion. As stated in the paper, larger studies are needed; and perhaps in a larger potential population there could be stricter criteria for subject inclusion for subject comparisons. Regards, Jim Muckerheide From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 9 15:12:07 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 13:12:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08BC5C@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <306335.17755.qm@web54301.mail.yahoo.com> Jim, Yes, it should be subjective. Rather than larger studies, physiological parameters should be measured. Are you aware of any radon studies that evaluated such factors as antibodies, lymphocytes? --- "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" wrote: > Hi John, > > In the science literature, you'll find that pain > research produces results that are, scientifically, > neither "subjective" nor "anecdotal." And this > paper addresses range of motion. > > As stated in the paper, larger studies are needed; > and perhaps in a larger potential population there > could be stricter criteria for subject inclusion for > subject comparisons. > > Regards, Jim Muckerheide > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > >[mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of > John Jacobus > >Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:24 PM > >To: Patricia Lewis; Barbra Erickson; RAD-SCI-L > >Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott at mmp-mitc-1.state.ma.us; > _Bobby?=; > >Christoph K?stinger; Ted Rockwell; Edward > Calabrese; Ron > >Mitchel; > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jodi.Strzelczyk at UCHSC.edu?=; Jerry > >Cuttler; Myron Pollycove; Ludwig Feinendegen; > >=?ISO-8859-1?Q?radsafe at radlab.nl?=; Peter Deetjen; > M Vogel > >@MSU; TD Luckey; Robert J. Cihak; Jim Muckerheide > >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of > Motion > >assessment at radonmine > > > >Interesting but not very conclusive. Pain is > >subjective, so the results are ancedotal. And > there > >was no attempt to rule out a placebo effect. > > > >That being said, it the patient or client feels > >better, than that is a positive response. I expect > >that the patients or clients will return, and I > wish > >them well. > > > >--- Patricia Lewis wrote: > > > >> I apologize for duplicate mailings on this paper. > > >> Follow up with author if interested. > >> > >> Best, > >> Patricia Lewis > >> Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine > >> http://www.radonmine.com > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe > mailing > >> list > >> > >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to > have > >> read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can > be > >> found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >> > >> For information on how to subscribe or > unsubscribe > >> and other settings visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > >> > > > > > > > >+++++++++++++++++++ > >"We must face the fact that the United States is > neither > >omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 > percent of the > >world's population; that we cannot impose our will > upon the > >other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right > every wrong > >or reverse each adversity; and therefore there > cannot be an > >American solution to every world problem." > >-- John F. Kennedy > > > >-- John > >John Jacobus, MS > >Certified Health Physicist > >e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________ > >_____________________ > >Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > >in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > >http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 > >_______________________________________________ > >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and > >understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found > at: > >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other > >settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 9 15:20:24 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 13:20:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] =?iso-8859-1?q?Announcement=3A__NRC_ISSUES_ANNUAL_AS?= =?iso-8859-1?q?SESSMENTS_FOR_NATION=92S_NUCLEAR_PLANTS?= Message-ID: <938458.56613.qm@web54305.mail.yahoo.com> >From NRC News release No. 07-030 of March 6, 2007 NRC ISSUES ANNUAL ASSESSMENTS FOR NATION?S NUCLEAR PLANTS The Nuclear Regulatory Commission has issued annual assessment letters to the nation?s 103 operating commercial nuclear power plants. All the plants continue to operate safely. ?NRC?s assessments of nuclear power plant performance are central to the agency?s mission of protecting people and the environment,? said Elmo E. Collins, director of the Division of Inspection and Regional Support in the NRC?s Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation. ?These annual assessments report the results of NRC?s reviews and give the public an overview of how each plant has performed.? Later this spring, the NRC will meet publicly with the operators of every plant in nearby locations to discuss plant performance. A separate announcement will be issued for each plant meeting. In addition to the annual assessment letters, plants also receive an NRC inspection plan for the coming year. Updated information on plant performance is posted to the NRC Web site every quarter. The plants also receive a mid-cycle assessment letter during the year; the next mid-cycle letters will be issued in September. The assessment letters sent to each licensee are available on the NRC Web site at: http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/index.html and through ADAMS, the Agencywide Documents Access and Management System. Help in using ADAMS is available from the NRC Public Document Room by calling (301) 415-4737 or (800) 397-4209. ### News releases are available through a free list serve subscription at the following Web address: http://www.nrc.gov/public-involve/listserver.html . The NRC homepage at www.nrc.gov also offers a SUBSCRIBE link. E-mail notifications are sent to subscribers when news releases are posted to NRC's Web site. +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php From dianegriffiths at comcast.net Fri Mar 9 16:38:41 2007 From: dianegriffiths at comcast.net (Diane Griffiths) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 17:38:41 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine Message-ID: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> I have some nurses that work in Angiography, Cardiac Cath, and Nuclear Medicine cardiology that are convinced their jobs are causing Breast Cancer. Out of 10 nurses that work in these areas, 2 of them recently were diagnosed with breast cancer. I have had multiple meetings with them in the last month, and no matter what I tell them they are still freaked out. I have found some articles that show that the incidence of breast cancer from working in these departments is very low. They don't believe the studies and information I have provided them. Their average exposure for these nurses is approximately 100 mRem per year. (Some of these nurses have been employed since 2002) They asked me to check with various hospitals to see what percentage of females working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine are being diagnosed with breast cancer and how long they have been working around radiation. Can anyone help me with some information from your experiences that may help me calm down these nurses? I don't want them afraid to work in these areas so I would appreciate any information that will help them. They insist that the information I have provided them is not real world information, thus them wanting me to check with other hospitals. Diane From jk5554 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 9 21:00:17 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 19:00:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine In-Reply-To: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> Message-ID: <325037.63260.qm@web32511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In addition to information from other hospitals, it would help their understanding to know about variations in natural background levels scross the USA - to see the variations from the generic 360 mrem/y. Perhaps some list-members who have *data particular to their location* could share their various natural background levels. I apologize, but I don't have access to the correct instrumentation for an accurate reading in my area. Of note, however, is high life expectancy in Colorado - and relatively high natural background levels in that state. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1534241,00.html This helps to put 100 mrem/y into perspective as a rather low amount. I gather that you have provided them with the studies of British http://bjr.birjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/882/507 and American http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15375227&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16639729 radiologists. The varying results demonstrate varying study methodology and statistical variation. If I took 100 samples of 20 people living in the same city and of the same age, gender, and race distribution, not exposed to any particular variable, and assessed the samples for cancer - some would be below average and some above. I know that's probably not very comforting, but statistical variation is why epidemiology is far from an exact science. I think it's important to understand that 100 mrem/y is within natural background variability here in the U.S. I would probably get that much extra just by moving from New Orleans (very low background) to Denver - and more if I chose Vail or Leadville. The reasons that natural background is higher in, say, Vail Colorado, than, say, Savannah Georgia are: 1 - Rocks and soil. K-40 is a naturally-occurring isotope of potassium, which is a component of feldspars (a common rock in rocky areas). Also, uranium and its decay series are present in trace quantities in granitic and certain other rocks. The amounts are low on the Gulf and South Atlantic coastal plains but a little bit higher in the Appalachian corridor and the Western states. 2 - Cosmic ray dose goes up with elevation. 3. Radon is variable. Radon is quite low on the Gulf Coast and relatively high in Iowa, southern Minnesota, the eastern Dakotas, parts of the Rocky Mountains, and the Reading Prong of Pennsylvania. It's kind of intermediate elsewhere. Ruth Sponsler http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/ --- Diane Griffiths wrote: > > I have some nurses that work in Angiography, Cardiac > Cath, and Nuclear > Medicine cardiology that are convinced their jobs > are causing Breast Cancer. > Out of 10 nurses that work in these areas, 2 of them > recently were diagnosed > with breast cancer. I have had multiple meetings > with them in the last > month, and no matter what I tell them they are still > freaked out. I have > found some articles that show that the incidence of > breast cancer from > working in these departments is very low. They don't > believe the studies and > information I have provided them. Their average > exposure for these nurses is > approximately 100 mRem per year. (Some of these > nurses have been employed > since 2002) > > They asked me to check with various hospitals to see > what percentage of > females working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine are > being diagnosed with > breast cancer and how long they have been working > around radiation. Can > anyone help me with some information from your > experiences that may help me > calm down these nurses? > > I don't want them afraid to work in these areas so I > would appreciate any > information that will help them. They insist that > the information I have > provided them is not real world information, thus > them wanting me to check > with other hospitals. > > Diane > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From dianegriffiths at comcast.net Fri Mar 9 21:49:47 2007 From: dianegriffiths at comcast.net (Diane Griffiths) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 22:49:47 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070309192516.009ea0c0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <00f701c762c7$2beec230$0800a8c0@ws200> Thanks y'all, you are giving me some more ideas to try and more areas to research. I gave them an extensive training packet with their yearly training last October that explained background radiation, natural radiation, even explained that K40 in the body is radioactive. I also gave them yearly background averages, as well as medical procedure averages. Told them about biological effects, and at what exposures they occured (and said it was XX times their exposures). In addition, I told them about time, distance, shielding. (To which they made me show that the Angio suite IS shielded by placing sources in there and demonstrating the geiger counter readings). I had a few articles on breast cancer risk to Nuclear Medicine techs and some of the studies some of you mentioned. (Then they tell me last week that they have never been trained. And argued that fact with me until I showed them the sign in sheet and training packet and then they all of a sudden remembered.) They told me they wanted specific examples of if females in other hospitals working with radiation got breast cancer. (Even though the two female Nuclear Medicine techs have had no problems and have been in the field for 24 years each). At that point I compared their exposures to the Nuc Med techs. They said that they understood what I was telling them, but they were still scared. (Then after the meeting they told the Nuclear tech that my meeting with them did not help at all.) One nurse said it is like if two people got run over by a car on the same street and location. It is not the fact that the street is not safe, but they would be scared to cross at the same location cause they would probably get hurt at that location also. So what they told me they wanted was specific examples from other hospitals that less than 20% got breast cancer from working around radiation and they might feel better about it. They wanted me to call all the hospitals in town and get information on how many of the female techs got breast cancer. So any of you in hospitals have any female techs that got breast cancer, or didn't? Any numbers out there? Diane From dianegriffiths at comcast.net Fri Mar 9 22:00:36 2007 From: dianegriffiths at comcast.net (Diane Griffiths) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 23:00:36 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine Message-ID: <002a01c762c8$a92453e0$0800a8c0@ws200> Thanks y'all, you are giving me some more ideas to try and more areas to research. I gave them an extensive training packet with their yearly training last October that explained background radiation, natural radiation, even explained that K40 in the body is radioactive. I also gave them yearly background averages, as well as medical procedure averages. Told them about biological effects, and at what exposures they occured (and said it was XX times their exposures). In addition, I told them about time, distance, shielding. (To which they made me show that the Angio suite IS shielded by placing sources in there and demonstrating the geiger counter readings). I had a few articles on breast cancer risk to Nuclear Medicine techs and some of the studies some of you mentioned. (Then they tell me last week that they have never been trained. And argued that fact with me until I showed them the sign in sheet and training packet and then they all of a sudden remembered.) They told me they wanted specific examples of if females in other hospitals working with radiation got breast cancer. (Even though the two female Nuclear Medicine techs have had no problems and have been in the field for 24 years each). At that point I compared their exposures to the Nuc Med techs. They said that they understood what I was telling them, but they were still scared. (Then after the meeting they told the Nuclear tech that my meeting with them did not help at all.) One nurse said it is like if two people got run over by a car on the same street and location. It is not the fact that the street is not safe, but they would be scared to cross at the same location cause they would probably get hurt at that location also. So what they told me they wanted was specific examples from other hospitals that less than 20% got breast cancer from working around radiation and they might feel better about it. They wanted me to call all the hospitals in town and get information on how many of the female techs got breast cancer. So any of you in hospitals have any female techs that got breast cancer, or didn't? Any numbers out there? Diane From Rainer.Facius at dlr.de Sat Mar 10 05:05:52 2007 From: Rainer.Facius at dlr.de (Rainer.Facius at dlr.de) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 12:05:52 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine References: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> Message-ID: <1B5EBED4E01074419C07EEF9D3802FDAF73CA3@exbe02.intra.dlr.de> Diane, the most comprehensive analysis of the most extensive data base for "real world information" concerning the association between ionizing radiation and breast cancer has been presented by a team of distinguished expert authors, Preston et al. 2002. Among the eight populations studied, only two were exposed chronically at low dose rates and hence are relevant for radiation protection. The observed breast cancer incidence rate as a function of radiation exposure in the low dose range - i.e. the range that is relevant for occupational radiation protection - is shown in the attached graph which displays the results given in table 4 of Preston et al. 2002. I wonder whether your colleagues will be able to properly evaluate this "real world information", e.g. that it pertains to a population which usually is considered to constitute the most vulnerable fraction. Of course, at higher doses the expected detrimental effect of radiation exposure is observed as reflected by the citation from the original investigators: "It was the contribution of subjects with breast doses > 1.0 Gy that produced a positive association between dose and the subsequent breast cancer risk." I hope that helps, Rainer Dr. Rainer Facius German Aerospace Center Institute of Aerospace Medicine Linder Hoehe 51147 Koeln GERMANY Voice: +49 2203 601 3147 or 3150 FAX: +49 2203 61970 Source: Preston D L, Mattson A, Holmberg E, Shore R, Hildreth N G, Boice Jr. J D. Radiation effects on breast cancer risk: a pooled analysis of eight cohorts. Radiation Research 158(2002)220-235 ________________________________ Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl im Auftrag von Diane Griffiths Gesendet: Fr 09.03.2007 23:38 An: radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk,and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine I have some nurses that work in Angiography, Cardiac Cath, and Nuclear Medicine cardiology that are convinced their jobs are causing Breast Cancer. Out of 10 nurses that work in these areas, 2 of them recently were diagnosed with breast cancer. I have had multiple meetings with them in the last month, and no matter what I tell them they are still freaked out. I have found some articles that show that the incidence of breast cancer from working in these departments is very low. They don't believe the studies and information I have provided them. Their average exposure for these nurses is approximately 100 mRem per year. (Some of these nurses have been employed since 2002) They asked me to check with various hospitals to see what percentage of females working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine are being diagnosed with breast cancer and how long they have been working around radiation. Can anyone help me with some information from your experiences that may help me calm down these nurses? I don't want them afraid to work in these areas so I would appreciate any information that will help them. They insist that the information I have provided them is not real world information, thus them wanting me to check with other hospitals. Diane _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Preston2002Graph9.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 10462 bytes Desc: Preston2002Graph9.pdf URL: From TGaglierd at achd.net Sat Mar 10 20:39:22 2007 From: TGaglierd at achd.net (Gaglierd, Tony) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:39:22 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radiation Events Medical Management Site Message-ID: <35C8F741E1C45847B3CDC0456FC4461E39FFCF@HDEX1.achd.net> Great Site. Much Good information collected in one easy to access and use place. Must have taken a great deal of time and effort. Having been in this game for many years, and having been around when the game was called Civil Defense and being a Radiological Defense Officer, the Nuclear Weapons Section looks like the old Cold War, Civil Defense Radiological Training material with 21's Century Spin on it. Instead of talking about Droping the Bomb Now it's Dirty Bomb, and Terrorist Improvised Nuclear Device. A prompet criticality device is still a promptet criticality device. In stead of Megaton weapons there talking about kiloton devices. Same effects, smaller circules. I used to do this, draw the effect circles on a map figure out the damge and the dead. The only thing the site lackd is a section for Bert the Turtle. Duck and Cover is the Top Down loaded video on the web. The more things change the more they stay the same. From Rainer.Facius at dlr.de Sat Mar 10 20:59:40 2007 From: Rainer.Facius at dlr.de (Rainer.Facius at dlr.de) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 03:59:40 +0100 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine References: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> <1B5EBED4E01074419C07EEF9D3802FDAF73CA3@exbe02.intra.dlr.de> <45F356A5.7050606@chartertn.net> Message-ID: <1B5EBED4E01074419C07EEF9D3802FDAF73CA7@exbe02.intra.dlr.de> John, of course you are right - in the context of a scientific exchange that would have been mandatory. In the given context I considered that additional detail as potentially bewildering and hence counterproductive. Just in case that this might not be the case, I add the requested information in the attached graph. As far as the exposure levels of the nurses are concerned that additional detail does alter the message by not one bit. HTH and best regards, Rainer ________________________________ Von: John Andrews [mailto:andrewsjp at chartertn.net] Gesendet: So 11.03.2007 02:08 An: Facius, Rainer Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine Rainer, to be useful, that graph need the error bars of the line. John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee Rainer.Facius at dlr.de wrote: > Diane, > > the most comprehensive analysis of the most extensive data base for "real world information" concerning the association between ionizing radiation and breast cancer has been presented by a team of distinguished expert authors, Preston et al. 2002. Among the eight populations studied, only two were exposed chronically at low dose rates and hence are relevant for radiation protection. The observed breast cancer incidence rate as a function of radiation exposure in the low dose range - i.e. the range that is relevant for occupational radiation protection - is shown in the attached graph which displays the results given in table 4 of Preston et al. 2002. I wonder whether your colleagues will be able to properly evaluate this "real world information", e.g. that it pertains to a population which usually is considered to constitute the most vulnerable fraction. Of course, at higher doses the expected detrimental effect of radiation exposure is observed as reflected by the citation from the original investigators: > > "It was the contribution of subjects with breast doses > 1.0 Gy that produced a positive association between dose and the subsequent breast cancer risk." > > I hope that helps, Rainer > > > Dr. Rainer Facius > German Aerospace Center > Institute of Aerospace Medicine > Linder Hoehe > 51147 Koeln > GERMANY > Voice: +49 2203 601 3147 or 3150 > FAX: +49 2203 61970 > > > Source: Preston D L, Mattson A, Holmberg E, Shore R, Hildreth N G, Boice Jr. J D. > Radiation effects on breast cancer risk: a pooled analysis of eight cohorts. > Radiation Research 158(2002)220-235 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Graph9err.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 16554 bytes Desc: Graph9err.pdf URL: From terryj at iit.edu Sun Mar 11 15:53:40 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:53:40 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radiation Events Medical Management Site In-Reply-To: <35C8F741E1C45847B3CDC0456FC4461E39FFCF@HDEX1.achd.net> References: <35C8F741E1C45847B3CDC0456FC4461E39FFCF@HDEX1.achd.net> Message-ID: <78DFF3E8-F16F-443E-B6E7-CEF6BC10D17C@iit.edu> That's ok, My friend Bert is still around. His video is at: http://www.archive.org/details/DuckandC1951 It was named in 2004 as a historically significant film. and of course there is the wiki site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_and_Cover_(film) Jeff On Mar 10, 2007, at 8:39 PM, Gaglierd, Tony wrote: > > The only thing the site lackd is a section for Bert the Turtle. > > Duck and Cover is the Top Down loaded video on the web. > > The more things change the more they stay the same. > From jerrycuttler at rogers.com Fri Mar 9 20:25:45 2007 From: jerrycuttler at rogers.com (Jerry Cuttler) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 21:25:45 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radon arthritis remedy; Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine; Re: " Half-million exposed to high radon in homes " Message-ID: <003801c762bb$68bbe820$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> Jaro, You and others will be interested in the following message and the attachment. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Patricia Lewis To: Barbra Erickson ; RAD-SCI-L Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl ; Edward Calabrese ; Robert J. Cihak ; Jerry Cuttler ; Peter Deetjen ; Philippe Duport ; Ludwig Feinendegen ; Jodi.Strzelczyk at UCHSC.edu ; Christoph K?stinger ; Howard Long ; TD Luckey ; Ron Mitchel ; Jim Muckerheide ; Myron Pollycove ; Ted Rockwell ; Scott, Bobby ; Fritz A. Seiler ; M Vogel @MSU Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:57 AM Subject: IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine Follow up with author if interested. Best, Patricia Lewis Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine http://www.radonmine.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Cuttler" To: "RADSAFE" ; "multiple cdn" Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:26 AM Subject: " Half-million exposed to high radon in homes " > Jaro, > > It seems that Health Canada is using the LNT hypothesis of radiation > carcinogenesis to predict lung cancer risk. Unfortunately, they are using > a > positive slope instead of the observed negative slope (see attached slide > 1 > pCi/L = 37 Bq/m^3). It seems Health Canada got the wrong answer. > > When Vera and I were at the Free Enterprise uranium mine in Montana a few > years ago, we stayed in 1650 pCi/L of radon for at least 30 hours. I > think > this exposure is about one working level month that uranium miners are > allowed each month. > > Jerry > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Erickson, Radon, IJLR Vol3 No4 2006.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 67271 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrycuttler at rogers.com Fri Mar 9 21:58:26 2007 From: jerrycuttler at rogers.com (Jerry Cuttler) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 22:58:26 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine References: <306335.17755.qm@web54301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <014b01c762c8$5b7d0650$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> Here's one that used x-rays. There are many more ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jacobus" To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" ; "Patricia Lewis" ; "Barbra Erickson" ; "RAD-SCI-L" Cc: "Scott, Bobby" ; "Christoph K?stinger" ; "Ted Rockwell" ; "Edward Calabrese" ; "Ron Mitchel" ; "Jerry Cuttler" ; "Myron Pollycove" ; "Ludwig Feinendegen" ; "Peter Deetjen" ; "M Vogel @MSU" ; "TD Luckey" ; "Robert J. Cihak" ; ; Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 4:12 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine > Jim, > Yes, it should be subjective. > > Rather than larger studies, physiological parameters > should be measured. Are you aware of any radon > studies that evaluated such factors as antibodies, > lymphocytes? > > --- "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > wrote: > >> Hi John, >> >> In the science literature, you'll find that pain >> research produces results that are, scientifically, >> neither "subjective" nor "anecdotal." And this >> paper addresses range of motion. >> >> As stated in the paper, larger studies are needed; >> and perhaps in a larger potential population there >> could be stricter criteria for subject inclusion for >> subject comparisons. >> >> Regards, Jim Muckerheide >> >> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Liu_PBNC_DoseResponse.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 94915 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ncohen12 at comcast.net Fri Mar 9 19:48:08 2007 From: ncohen12 at comcast.net (Norm Cohen) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 20:48:08 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] FW: [RegulatoryPost] DHHS Medical Care Guidelines during Radiation Mass Casualty Incident Message-ID: <023101c762b6$27f11770$0b00a8c0@office> fyi Coalition for Peace and Justice; UNPLUG Salem Campaign, 321 Barr Ave, Linwood; NJ08221; 609-601-8583; Cell Phone - 609-335-8176 _____ From: RegulatoryPost at yahoogroups.com [mailto:RegulatoryPost at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of regulatorymavin Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:22 PM To: RegulatoryPost at yahoogroups.com Subject: [RegulatoryPost] DHHS Medical Care Guidelines during Radiation Mass Casualty Incident The Department of Health and Human Services has developed its first comprehensive web site to assist health care professionals, primarily physicians, who may have to provide medical care during a radiation mass casualty incident. http://www.hhs. gov/news/press/2007pres/20070308.html Radiation Event Medical Management (REMM) (http://remm. nlm.gov) provides easy to follow algorithms for diagnosis and management of radiation contamination and exposure, guidance for the use of radiation countermeasures, and a variety of other features to facilitate medical responses. Guidance on diagnosis and treatment will help health care providers by describing: types of radiation emergencies they may face initial medical actions at the incident site and or medical facility specific issues that apply to care in radiation mass casualty events. Critical information is presented in a format that will quickly and efficiently orient and guide health care providers during a potential mass casualty radiation event. Federal, state and local medical response teams will be able to download REMM files to computers so that the documents are available without internet access. Users can also register for automatic e-mail updates whenever key material is changed or added to REMM. Future plans include formatting REMM for use on Personal Digital Assistant (PDA) devices, additional multimedia graphics, and more topic areas such as follow-up patient care. Subject matter experts from the HHS Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response (ASPR), the National Institutes of Health's National Cancer Institute (NCI), the National Library of Medicine (NLM), and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) collaborated on the content for REMM. HHS teamed with NLM's Division of Specialized Information Services to develop the site. __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group SPONSORED LINKS * New jersey dwi * New jersey lawyer * New jersey dwi attorney * New jersey auto insurance * New jersey dwi lawyer 2008 Election For President Who are the contenders? Yahoo! Sports Tournament Pick Em Pick the winners Beat your friends Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball Draft your players. Build your team. . __,_._,___ From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 10 13:28:16 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:28:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Portable, Palm-Size Radiation Detectors Message-ID: <20070310192816.45837.qmail@web81603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/18275/ Wednesday, March 07, 2007 Portable, Palm-Size Radiation Detectors A new device, with sensors the size of human cells, can measure, record, and assess the risk of radiation emissions in real time. By Brittany Sauser Researchers at the National Space Biomedical Research Institute (NSBRI) and the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA) have developed a novel radiation detector to be used during space missions, particularly those to the Moon and Mars, where energy levels are dangerous and approximate doses are estimated. The device, called a microdosimeter, is small and low-powered, and it can measure atmospheric radiation levels in real time. "We are really taking existing technology and pushing it to new limits so that we can apply it where it has never really been applied before," says Vince Pisacane, a researcher on the NSBRI Technology Development Team, a professor of aerospace engineering at the USNA, and the principal investigator on this project. By using a silicon device of his team's own making as a basic sensor, Pisacane hopes to achieve the type of accuracy needed to make estimates of the radiation exposure of humans in space. "It is really critical [to human health that] it be as precise as possible," he says. Since the Apollo missions, NASA has flown a variety of radiation detectors on every mission; most of these detectors have been based on one piece of hardware: a dosimeter. This device, still the most accurate instrument used by people regularly exposed to radiation in their work, measures the total accumulated amount of radiation exposure and can take the form of a badge, a pen-size tube, or a digital readout. But the device, while very durable and portable, provides measurements of radiation exposure only after the fact, so the doses of radiation that astronauts are receiving while in space aren't known until they return to Earth. To the degree that space exploration involves manned missions, the need for better radiation detection is acute. In just a day or two on the lunar surface, astronauts can receive up to 600 times the amount of radiation a person on Earth receives in a year, explains Ann Kennedy, Richard Chamberlain Professor of Research Oncology and a professor in the Department of Radiation Oncology, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. "Of most concern is a solar-flare or solar-particle event that can occur without warning from the sun emitting particles at high volume, leading to high doses for astronauts," she explains. The effects of exposure to extreme radiation can be severe: vomiting, erythema (skin reddening), cancer, leukemia, and even death. To build a tool that can help astronauts avoid such effects, Pisacane's team used the central idea of a dosimeter--that is, measuring the total amount of radiation exposure--but it's measuring not just the cumulative amount of radiation that the body receives: it's also measuring the cumulative amount that each cell in the body receives. By studying radiation on a microscopic scale, the researchers hope to better understand the cellular effects of radiation. The microdosimeter, which is about the size of a package of cigarettes, contains an array of cells made out of silicon, each one typically the size of a red blood cell and arranged on an electronic board like the squares on a checkerboard. Each cell continuously records the amount of small energy particles being deposited. Some particles will deposit more energy and different types than others. From looking at this data, researchers can create an energy spectrum that will allow them to gauge the range of energies and the values that could be deposited within the human body. Furthermore, the system is what Pisacane calls "active" and can take real-time measurements of radiation levels, alerting astronauts immediately if they are at risk. Spacesuits and spacecraft equipped with the microdosimeter sensors could help enable astronauts to take protective action at the onset of enhanced radiation. But before the device is ready for manned missions, it will be tested on numerous satellites over the course of about five years. Pisacane hopes that with each trip, the device--which is powered by AA batteries and already uses only one watt of power when continuously collecting data--will become even smaller, using less power with increased reliability. The microdosimeter will make its first trip to space on March 8, when it will go up on STP-1, the launch vehicle, as an experiment on the MidSTAR satellite built by the USNA. The satellite will contain three microdosimeter sensors, one outside and two inside, one of which will be coated with polyethylene, a substance whose permeability is similar to that of human tissue, and thus can simulate the effects of radiation on the human body. All three sensors will be connected to an electronic output module that will collect and store data for transmission to the ground. The central challenge in creating one of these devices is to make it accurate. "There are a lot of elements that go into making it work," says Pisacane, "and all this has to be designed, parts have to be manufactured, we have to identify electrical components and get them on the board--some of them are so small you can hardly see them." Indeed, the things you have to do in order to develop very small, low-mass, and low-power-consumption devices for space flight are exceptionally tricky, explains Cary Zeitlin, a staff scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and former principal investigator of the Martian Radiation Environment Experiment (MARIE). The MARIE project, which was funded by NASA, built a particle telescope to measure radiation levels on Mars and was sent aboard the Odyssey for testing in 2001. Although the technology suffered from hardware difficulties after a large solar event, it was able to gather dosage information and was a beginning step in detection efforts on Mars. "Pisacane's group is doing a variation on the standard type of dosimeter, and it's a new way of measuring radiation doses that I think is a novel application," says Zeitlin. While extremely important to manned space missions, the microdosimeter is meant to have Earth-based applications as well. It can help people who work with nuclear power, with nuclear compounds, in medical and industrial applications, and in those areas in which it is important to know the levels of radiation, says Jay Buckey, team lead for the NSBRI Technology Development Team and professor of medicine at Dartmouth Medical School. "This technology is an excellent and very worthwhile way to track radiation exposure and an improvement of what we have now," he says. 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Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. From rhelbig at california.com Fri Mar 9 22:56:47 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 20:56:47 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Herbert Reed - NY National Guard on Anti-DU tour in New Mexico Message-ID: <006901c762d0$8f59dfe0$33425142@roger1> Radsafers in New Mexico, you might like to confront Mr Reed. He seems to profiting handsomely off of his alleged DU exposure, trip to Japan, trip to Costa Rica, trip to New Mexico and wherever else. Someone might like to ask him why it is that the only person who determine that he had DU is Durakovic with the help of Dr Gerdes in Germany. Someone might also like to ask "how exactly did you get exposed to DU"? Roger Helbig From chemitech at chemitech.com Mon Mar 12 04:12:41 2007 From: chemitech at chemitech.com (Marco Caceci) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:12:41 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Exempt neutron sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <014801c76486$980491a0$4001a8c0@acer> Thanks to all who commented on my previous post, expecially Franz who pointed to the relevant EU regulations. A working link is http://ec.europa.eu/energy/nuclear/radioprotection/doc/legislation/9629_ en.pdf I understand that indeed one can 'easily' move, for example, 10.000 bequerels of Cf252 in this continent, this quantity being exempt. That much Cf would shoot some 300 neutrons per second, which would be enough for my purposes and probably further extend my lifespan (being myself living proof that hormesis works). I would imagine no other <10^4 Bq alpha-Be source would produce neutrons with >3% efficiency, maybe somebody can correct me there. Next obvious question: anybody in Europe or elsewhere (excepting The Source, thank you, who doesn't understand my English) capable or willing to provide exempt Cf sources? Maybe I should call in my karma chips on this: in my academic past I used to liberally gave away free Am and Cm sources I used to make myself by the time-tested "dip a needle and burn it on a flame" method, in particular to poor high school teachers who could so do experiments that probably would now land them on the front page on the NY Times. So, anybody in this or any vicinity can loan me a free exempt Cf sample for evaluation purposes? Thank you all again and have a great week Marco Marco Caceci LQC sl The Hague The Netherlands From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 07:17:32 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 05:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] NYT Op-Ed: Where Those Reactors and Centrifuges Came From Message-ID: <803248.70751.qm@web54303.mail.yahoo.com> I thought this is an interesting piece, and thought I would pass it along. It is at http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/10/opinion/10bernstein.html?_r=1&th=&emc=th&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin ------------ March 10, 2007 Op-Ed Contributor Where Those Reactors and Centrifuges Came From By JEREMY BERNSTEIN Aspen, Colo. THE six-party agreement signed with North Korea last month should certainly be applauded as a necessary first step in improving relations with the United States. While a good deal of the North Korean program is shrouded in mystery ? just this week the United States again urged the North Koreans to disclose any uranium-enrichment activities ? there are some things we do know, including the nature and status of the country?s reactors. North Korea?s one functioning reactor, at Yongbyon, uses natural uranium for fuel and graphite as its moderator (the substance that slows the neutrons and enhances the fission reaction). These are the same ingredients used in the first reactor ever designed, which was tested by Enrico Fermi at the University of Chicago in 1942. The best estimate is that Yongbyon has produced about 100 pounds of plutonium since it went into full operation in 1990. This is enough for six to eight nuclear bombs, depending on their design. (The North Koreans might have used about six kilograms in their Oct. 9 test.) The construction of the larger reactors North Korea was building was apparently already suspended, for various technical reasons, before the agreement. The North Koreans have been fairly transparent about their reactor program but almost totally opaque about their program to make natural uranium suitable for nuclear weapons by using centrifuges. We know that there is such a program, but we do not know where it is or how much, if any, uranium it has enriched. Centrifuges are much easier to hide than reactors. The provenance of the North Korean centrifuge program is a useful lesson in nuclear proliferation. One can trace it back to the spring of 1945, when the Russians were overrunning Germany. Along with the army came a cadre of atomic and nuclear physicists who were looking for both German physicists and metallic uranium. The latter had been made in large quantities ? tons ? by the Auer company, a subsidiary of the Degussa chemical company, in part by using slave labor from the concentration camps. The Soviets were able to take home about 300 tons of processed uranium. Thanks to espionage, the Soviets knew where to look and whom to look for. (The United States had a similar program, called Alsos, that competed for many of the same people.) The Soviets collected a talented inventor of electronic devices named Manfred von Ardenne. He had made a great deal of money and had a large estate outside Berlin. On it he had a laboratory with a nuclear program financed by the German Post Office. In May 1945 the Soviets shipped Dr. von Ardenne east with some of his colleagues and equipment from his laboratory. By June he had set up a laboratory, Institute A, in Sukhumi on the Black Sea in Georgia. Nearby, another laboratory, Institute G, had been set up by Gustav Hertz, a German physicist of Jewish ancestry who had shared the 1925 Nobel Prize in Physics. Dr. Hertz had been working out of sight at the Siemens company during the Nazi period. The Sukhumi scientists were ordered to find methods of separating uranium isotopes. Dr. Hertz chose to study gaseous diffusion. Uranium hexafluoride gas is forced through tiny pores in a membrane to separate out the lighter isotope, uranium 235, which is needed for weapons. Dr. von Ardenne tried separation by using electromagnetic fields, a technique also used in the American uranium separation program at Oak Ridge, Tenn. A third group, headed by a physicist named Max Steenbeck, investigated the centrifuge. Dr. Steenbeck, who had been arrested by the Soviets and put in a concentration camp in Poland, had previously been in charge of research for the division of Siemens that dealt with aircraft. While in captivity he wrote a letter to the Soviet secret police, the N.K.V.D., explaining his scientific background; he also ended up in Sukhumi. Dr. Steenbeck began with a small group and some antiquated Soviet centrifuges that certainly could not have been used to separate uranium isotopes. In the summer of 1946 they were joined by an Austrian physicist named Gernot Zippe. Dr. Zippe had been in the Luftwaffe during the war and, after having been taken prisoner in the summer of 1946, he went from a prison camp to the relative luxury of Sukhumi, thanks to the initiative of Dr. von Ardenne. Neither Dr. Zippe nor Dr. Steenbeck had ever worked on centrifuges, but within two years they created the best centrifuge in the world ? although at the time they did not know it. (To give some idea of its capacity, a typical laboratory centrifuge makes a few thousand rotations a minute. The Zippe centrifuge ? this is the common name, although Dr. Zippe himself refers to it as the ?Russian centrifuge? ? can do 90,000 rotations a minute.) In 1956, Dr. Zippe was allowed to return to Germany. Although he was not permitted to take any documents with him, he was able to reconstruct his work, and began consulting for various companies interested in centrifuges, including Degussa. The private German companies, including the part of Degussa that was doing centrifuges, became nationalized in 1964. But in 1970 these national companies became part of an international consortium called Urenco. The Dutch had a branch in Almelo and, in 1972, a Pakistani metallurgist named Abdul Qadeer Khan joined it. Fluent in both Dutch and German, he was given the job of translating the German centrifuge plans into Dutch. He became familiar with both the German and Dutch versions of the Zippe centrifuge. In 1974, India successfully tested a nuclear device, and Pakistan?s president, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, put out a call to all the scientists in the Pakistani diaspora to return home and help make a bomb. Dr. Khan was one who answered and he brought with him the stolen plans for the Zippe centrifuge. This is not the place to go into the details of Dr. Khan?s activities, which in the end involved a variety of countries from Libya to China ? to say nothing of Iran, whose centrifuges also have a Pakistani origin. By the 1990s Dr. Khan was exchanging weapons information with the North Koreans for similar information about their long-range rockets. We know he gave them plans for the centrifuge and probably sample centrifuges. We do not know whether he gave them plans for a nuclear weapon, as he had done for the Libyans. We also do not know to what extent the government of Pakistan was complicit in this. The army certainly was, and military aircraft were used to transport material. Pakistan has denied any involvement; Dr. Khan is under house arrest and no foreign intelligence representatives have been allowed to interview him. The North Koreans have reluctantly admitted that they have a centrifuge program but have not let any foreign observers see it. Such a program, if limited, would have been allowed by the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. But the North Koreans would have had to declare it to the International Atomic Energy Agency, which then would have had the right to inspect it. This they did not do. Perhaps they enjoy the ambiguity. My own guess is that if they have an active program it is relatively small. And while so far the agreement we have made with them does not say anything about this program, clearly we must eventually insist on knowing its extent. The route that led from Soviet prisoners of war to the centrifuges in North Korea is so implausible that if one put it in a novel, no one would believe it. Jeremy Bernstein is the author of the forthcoming ?Plutonium: A History of the World?s Most Dangerous Element.? +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 07:37:00 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 05:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine In-Reply-To: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> Message-ID: <760292.49974.qm@web54313.mail.yahoo.com> I think soliciting information for other medical facilities is not a good idea. I would suggest citing professional groups that have reviewed this information. I would suggest-- http://hps.org/documents/risk_ps010-1.pdf Another source is the paper -- Shinji Yoshinaga, PhD, Kiyohiko Mabuchi, MD, DrPH, Alice J. Sigurdson, PhD, Michele Morin Doody, MS and Elaine Ron, PhD "Cancer Risks among Radiologists and Radiologic Technologists: Review of Epidemiologic Studies," Radiology 2004;233:313-321 Abstract: Radiologists and radiologic technologists were among the earliest occupational groups exposed to ionizing radiation and represent a large segment of the working population exposed to radiation from human-made sources. The authors reviewed epidemiologic data on cancer risks from eight cohorts of over 270 000 radiologists and technologists in various countries. The most consistent finding was increased mortality due to leukemia among early workers employed before 1950, when radiation exposures were high. This, together with an increasing risk of leukemia with increasing duration of work in the early years, provided evidence of an excess risk of leukemia associated with occupational radiation exposure in that period. While findings on several types of solid cancers were less consistent, several studies provided evidence of a radiation effect for breast cancer and skin cancer. To date, there is no clear evidence of an increased cancer risk in medical radiation workers exposed to current levels of radiation doses. However, given a relatively short period of time for which the most recent workers have been followed up and in view of the increasing uses of radiation in modern medical practices, it is important to continue to monitor the health status of medical radiation workers. (I have been doing this for many years, and will probably continue to in the future.) --- Diane Griffiths wrote: > > I have some nurses that work in Angiography, Cardiac > Cath, and Nuclear > Medicine cardiology that are convinced their jobs > are causing Breast Cancer. > Out of 10 nurses that work in these areas, 2 of them > recently were diagnosed > with breast cancer. I have had multiple meetings > with them in the last > month, and no matter what I tell them they are still > freaked out. I have > found some articles that show that the incidence of > breast cancer from > working in these departments is very low. They don't > believe the studies and > information I have provided them. Their average > exposure for these nurses is > approximately 100 mRem per year. (Some of these > nurses have been employed > since 2002) > > They asked me to check with various hospitals to see > what percentage of > females working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine are > being diagnosed with > breast cancer and how long they have been working > around radiation. Can > anyone help me with some information from your > experiences that may help me > calm down these nurses? > > I don't want them afraid to work in these areas so I > would appreciate any > information that will help them. They insist that > the information I have > provided them is not real world information, thus > them wanting me to check > with other hospitals. > > Diane > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 From bcradsafers at hotmail.com Mon Mar 12 08:05:20 2007 From: bcradsafers at hotmail.com (Bjorn Cedervall) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:05:20 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Statistics - evaluation of digital images In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear RadSafers, I recently ran into a question related to comparison of different X-ray techniques. Various reference images where given a zero (0) value and then different digital image processing techniques where used whereafter some radiologists were asked about the quality (clinical value for diagnostic purposees) of the new (processed) images - ranking the pictures by giving them a subjective value on a five-stepscale: -2, -1, 0, +1, +2. The outcome of a "typical" test for five radiologists could then look like the following: Radiologist Score 1 +1 2 0 (image of about the same clinical value as the reference) 3 +2 (much better image than the reference) 4 -1 (image of less quality than the reference) 5 +1 (Average: 3/5 = +0,60) The reference is always zero so these five scores could be seen as paired comparisons: 0, +1 0, 0 0, +2 0, -1 0, +1 Reasonably a distribution like this has no tails as there is a lower and an upper bound. Now, I want to test if various paired rankings of this kind are statistically different. My question is what a distribution of this kind is called (contrasting gaussian and other types of distributions) and what the appropriate statistical test would be (some kind of paired t-test??). I apologize for this question being somewhat outside the core of radiology but it is related to efforts to lower diagnostic doses. Any help will be greatly appreciated, Bjorn Cedervall bcradsafers at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few simple tips. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 08:28:40 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine In-Reply-To: <00f701c762c7$2beec230$0800a8c0@ws200> Message-ID: <305841.91118.qm@web54306.mail.yahoo.com> Diane, You may have to accept that fact that they may not want you accept ANY evidence that you present to them. This appears to be a statistical cluster when rare event, two technologist out of xx get breast cancer. Statistically, it can happen, like winning the lottery. But, now many times this CAN happen is rare. You might want to ask them how many of their friends or relative who have not worked around radiation have breast cancer. They are probably both in their late 40s and early 50s, so the natural incidences of breast cancer should be evident. My wife made that comment that several of her friends had breast cancer. After looking at the issue from the natural incidence rate, it be came clear that this was to be expected. I wish you luck on this. You are dealing with emotions that these technologists feel. --- Diane Griffiths wrote: > Thanks y'all, you are giving me some more ideas to > try and more areas to research. > > I gave them an extensive training packet with their > yearly training last October that explained > background radiation, natural radiation, even > explained that K40 in the body is radioactive. I > also gave them yearly background averages, as well > as medical procedure averages. Told them about > biological effects, and at what exposures they > occured (and said it was XX times their exposures). > In addition, I told them about time, distance, > shielding. (To which they made me show that the > Angio suite IS shielded by placing sources in there > and demonstrating the geiger counter readings). I > had a few articles on breast cancer risk to Nuclear > Medicine techs and some of the studies some of you > mentioned. (Then they tell me last week that they > have never been trained. And argued that fact with > me until I showed them the sign in sheet and > training packet and then they all of a sudden > remembered.) > > They told me they wanted specific examples of if > females in other hospitals working with radiation > got breast cancer. (Even though the two female > Nuclear Medicine techs have had no problems and have > been in the field for 24 years each). At that point > I compared their exposures to the Nuc Med techs. > They said that they understood what I was telling > them, but they were still scared. (Then after the > meeting they told the Nuclear tech that my meeting > with them did not help at all.) > > One nurse said it is like if two people got run over > by a car on the same street and location. It is not > the fact that the street is not safe, but they would > be scared to cross at the same location cause they > would probably get hurt at that location also. > > So what they told me they wanted was specific > examples from other hospitals that less than 20% got > breast cancer from working around radiation and they > might feel better about it. They wanted me to call > all the hospitals in town and get information on how > many of the female techs got breast cancer. > > So any of you in hospitals have any female techs > that got breast cancer, or didn't? Any numbers out > there? > > Diane > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 08:31:55 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine In-Reply-To: <014b01c762c8$5b7d0650$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> Message-ID: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> And what does this have to do with radon? Or radon mines? Or ranges of motion? --- Jerry Cuttler wrote: > Here's one that used x-rays. > There are many more ... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Jacobus" > To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > ; "Patricia Lewis" > ; "Barbra Erickson" > ; "RAD-SCI-L" > > Cc: "Scott, Bobby" ; "Christoph > K?stinger" > ; "Ted Rockwell" > ; > "Edward Calabrese" ; > "Ron Mitchel" > ; "Jerry Cuttler" > ; "Myron > Pollycove" ; "Ludwig > Feinendegen" > ; "Peter Deetjen" > ; "M Vogel > @MSU" ; "TD Luckey" > ; "Robert J. > Cihak" ; > ; > > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 4:12 PM > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of > Motion assessment at > radonmine > > > > Jim, > > Yes, it should be subjective. > > > > Rather than larger studies, physiological > parameters > > should be measured. Are you aware of any radon > > studies that evaluated such factors as antibodies, > > lymphocytes? > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php From Rainer.Facius at dlr.de Mon Mar 12 08:47:47 2007 From: Rainer.Facius at dlr.de (Rainer.Facius at dlr.de) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:47:47 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine In-Reply-To: <305841.91118.qm@web54306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <00f701c762c7$2beec230$0800a8c0@ws200> <305841.91118.qm@web54306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1B5EBED4E01074419C07EEF9D3802FDA0134E02E@exbe02.intra.dlr.de> Very well said, John; also your preceding comment regarding the proper sources to consult. Kind regards, Rainer -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von John Jacobus Gesendet: Montag, 12. M?rz 2007 14:29 An: Diane Griffiths; Steven Dapra; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk,and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine Diane, You may have to accept that fact that they may not want you accept ANY evidence that you present to them. This appears to be a statistical cluster when rare event, two technologist out of xx get breast cancer. Statistically, it can happen, like winning the lottery. But, now many times this CAN happen is rare. You might want to ask them how many of their friends or relative who have not worked around radiation have breast cancer. They are probably both in their late 40s and early 50s, so the natural incidences of breast cancer should be evident. My wife made that comment that several of her friends had breast cancer. After looking at the issue from the natural incidence rate, it be came clear that this was to be expected. I wish you luck on this. You are dealing with emotions that these technologists feel. --- Diane Griffiths wrote: > Thanks y'all, you are giving me some more ideas to try and more areas > to research. > > I gave them an extensive training packet with their yearly training > last October that explained background radiation, natural radiation, > even explained that K40 in the body is radioactive. I also gave them > yearly background averages, as well as medical procedure averages. > Told them about biological effects, and at what exposures they occured > (and said it was XX times their exposures). > In addition, I told them about time, distance, shielding. (To which > they made me show that the Angio suite IS shielded by placing sources > in there and demonstrating the geiger counter readings). I had a few > articles on breast cancer risk to Nuclear Medicine techs and some of > the studies some of you mentioned. (Then they tell me last week that > they have never been trained. And argued that fact with me until I > showed them the sign in sheet and training packet and then they all of > a sudden > remembered.) > > They told me they wanted specific examples of if females in other > hospitals working with radiation got breast cancer. (Even though the > two female Nuclear Medicine techs have had no problems and have been > in the field for 24 years each). At that point I compared their > exposures to the Nuc Med techs. > They said that they understood what I was telling them, but they were > still scared. (Then after the meeting they told the Nuclear tech that > my meeting with them did not help at all.) > > One nurse said it is like if two people got run over by a car on the > same street and location. It is not the fact that the street is not > safe, but they would be scared to cross at the same location cause > they would probably get hurt at that location also. > > So what they told me they wanted was specific examples from other > hospitals that less than 20% got breast cancer from working around > radiation and they might feel better about it. They wanted me to call > all the hospitals in town and get information on how many of the > female techs got breast cancer. > > So any of you in hospitals have any female techs that got breast > cancer, or didn't? Any numbers out there? > > Diane > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Reno_Fabii at doh.state.fl.us Mon Mar 12 09:08:30 2007 From: Reno_Fabii at doh.state.fl.us (Reno_Fabii at doh.state.fl.us) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:08:30 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Williston-Elin Message-ID: <51F5591FCBAC7447BC3BBEF5FEFFBF7B0938C5BF@dohsmailhq07.doh.ad.state.fl.us> We have a Williston-Elin irradiator in need of repair and support. Does anyone know of a US company that will provide service support? Does anyone have a copy of the complete technical manual for the unit? Reno J. Fabii Environmental Specialist II Florida Dept. of Health Bureau of Radiation Control Phone: (407) 297-2096 Ext. 240 Fax: (407) 297-2085 reno_fabii at doh.state.fl.us From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 11:15:17 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise ("Yellow cake") Message-ID: <540143.12297.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-uranium12mar12,1,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an estate sale. By Stephen Hudak Orlando Sentinel March 12, 2007 BELLEVIEW, FLA. ? Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's junk and tchotchkes. His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an estate sale," Cafaro said. "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? I think that's illegal.' " Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic security task force. They focused on a container the size of a soup can. Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or enriched for weapons. In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro said. The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for disposal. Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not pose a serious threat in small quantities. "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially dangerous. +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front From Al.Conklin at DOH.WA.GOV Mon Mar 12 11:44:44 2007 From: Al.Conklin at DOH.WA.GOV (Conklin, Al (DOH)) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:44:44 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <540143.12297.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my office; "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John Jacobus Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise("Yellow cake") http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-uranium12mar12,1 ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an estate sale. By Stephen Hudak Orlando Sentinel March 12, 2007 BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's junk and tchotchkes. His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an estate sale," Cafaro said. "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? I think that's illegal.' " Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic security task force. They focused on a container the size of a soup can. Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or enriched for weapons. In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro said. The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for disposal. Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not pose a serious threat in small quantities. "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially dangerous. +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From CONTEDU at hsph.harvard.edu Mon Mar 12 13:40:25 2007 From: CONTEDU at hsph.harvard.edu (Harvard Health Professional Training) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:40:25 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radiation Safety Training at Harvard Message-ID: <45F56658.FEF5.004B.0@hsph.harvard.edu> Let the experts at the Harvard School of Public Health ease your worries and answer your radiation protection questions during this upcoming training program. Occupational and Environmental Radiation Protection April 23 - 26, 2007 Harvard School of Public Health Boston, MA For complete details or to register, visit: www.hsph.harvard.edu/ccpe/programs/OERP.shtml Environmental health experts and master teachers, Dr. Dade Moeller and Dr. Jacob Shapiro, help you face new and ongoing radiation protection challenges through this in-depth and lively program. In this course, the basic principles and practices of radiation safety are imparted through a combination of teaching tools, including lectures, laboratory demonstrations and panel discussions. Earn continuing education credits with the following organizations: ABIH Industrial Hygiene (4 CM Points) Harvard School of Public Health (3.2 CEUs) American Academy of Health Physics (credit amount pending) NRRPT registration maintenance program To register or for more information, visit www.hsph.harvard.edu/ccpe, call 617-384-8692, or email contedu at hsph.harvard.edu. Please be sure to mention your Reference Code: OERP07-LIST02 From LNMolino at aol.com Mon Mar 12 14:16:42 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:16:42 EDT Subject: [ RadSafe ] FYI Message-ID: Source: (USA) Federal Register: March 5, 2007 (Volume 72, Number 42)] 29 CFR Part 1910 Announcement of Stakeholder Meetings on Occupational Exposure to Ionizing Radiation AGENCY: Occupational Safety and Health Administration, Labor. --------------------------------------------------------------- SUMMARY: The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) invites interested parties to participate in informal stakeholder meetings on Occupational Exposure to Ionizing Radiation. These meetings are a continuation of OSHA's information collection efforts on ionizing radiation. DATES: Stakeholder meetings: The stakeholder meeting dates are: 1. 8:30 a.m.-4:30 p.m., March 16, 2007, Washington, DC. 2. 8:30 a.m.-4:30 p.m., March 26, 2007, Orlando, FL. Notice of intention to attend a stakeholder meeting: You must submit a notice of intention to attend the Washington, DC, or Orlando, FL, stakeholder meeting by March 9, 2007. ADDRESSES: Stakeholder meetings: The stakeholder meeting locations are: 1. Frances Perkins Building, U.S. Department of Labor, 200 Constitution Avenue, NW., Washington, DC 20210. 2. For the location of the Orlando, FL, stakeholder meeting, contact Liset Navas at (202) 693-1950. Notices of intention to attend a stakeholder meeting: You may submit your notice of intention to attend a stakeholder meeting by any of the following methods: Electronic: OSHA encourages you to submit your notice of intention to attend to navas.liset at dol.gov. Facsimile: You may fax your notice of intention to attend to (202) 693-1678. Regular mail. SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION: Background The use of ionizing radiation has increased significantly in recent years. Today, ionizing radiation is used in a wide variety of workplaces and operations, including security operations, hospitals and medical offices, dental offices, manufacturing worksites, research facilities, forestry and other agricultural worksites, and wastewater treatment plants. In 2005, OSHA initiated information collection efforts to obtain data, information, and comment on the increased workplace use of ionizing radiation and other related issues. These efforts started with the publication of a Request for Information (RFI) on May 3, 2005 (70 FR 22828). OSHA received 51 comments in response to the RFI. To supplement this information, OSHA is inviting interested parties to attend informal stakeholder meetings on the Occupational Exposure to Ionizing Radiation. OSHA will use the data and materials obtained through these information collections efforts to determine, in conjunction with other Federal agencies, whether regulatory action is necessary to protect employees from ionizing radiation exposure. OSHA's existing standard on Ionizing Radiation (29 CFR 1910.1096) was adopted in 1971 pursuant to section 6(a) of the Act (29 U.S.C. 655). The standard has remained largely unchanged since that time. OSHA's Ionizing Radiation standard applies to all workplaces except agricultural operations and those workplaces exempted from OSHA jurisdiction under section 4(b)(1) of the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 (the Act) (29 U.S.C. 653). Section 4(b)(1) states: Nothing in this Act shall apply to working conditions of employees with respect to which other Federal agencies, and State agencies acting under section 274 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended (42 U.S.C. 2021), exercise statutory authority to prescribe or enforce standards or regulations affecting occupational safety and health. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has statutory authority for licensing and regulating nuclear facilities and materials as mandated by the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (as amended)(42 U.S.C. 2011 et seq.), the Energy Reorganization Act of 1974 (as amended), the Nuclear Nonproliferation Act of 1978, and other applicable statutes. Specifically, the NRC has the authority to regulate source, byproduct and certain special nuclear materials (e.g., nuclear reactor fuel). This authority covers radiation hazards in NRC-licensed nuclear facilities produced by radioactive materials and plant conditions that affect the safety of radioactive materials and thus present an increased radiation hazard to workers. In 1988, OSHA and NRC signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) delineating the general areas of responsibility of each agency (CPL 2.86, December 22, 1989). The MOU specifies that at NRC-licensed facilities OSHA has authority to regulate occupational ionizing radiation sources not regulated by NRC (CPL 2.86). Examples of non-NRC regulated radiation sources include X-ray equipment, accelerators, electron microscopes, betatrons, and some naturally occurring radiation sources (CPL 2.86). (See the Ionizing Radiation RFI (70 FR 22828) for additional information on sources of ionizing radiation exposure, workplace uses of ionizing radiation, and health effects of ionizing radiation exposure.) Most recently, the Energy Policy Act of 2005 authorized NRC to regulate material made radioactive by accelerators by adding ``accelerator-produced material'' to the definition of ``byproduct material'' that NRC is authorized to license and regulate. The Energy Policy Act directed NRC to issue licensing and compliance oversight regulations to carry out the legislation. Until NRC issues and begins enforcing those regulations, OSHA retains authority over both accelerators and the materials they produce. See FR for complete notice. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From mcnaught at lanl.gov Mon Mar 12 15:26:12 2007 From: mcnaught at lanl.gov (Michael McNaughton) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:26:12 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine In-Reply-To: <325037.63260.qm@web32511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> <325037.63260.qm@web32511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20070312141907.026ddda0@esh-mail.lanl.gov> For natural background in northern New Mexico, look at http://newnet.lanl.gov/stabyloc.asp and select one of the stations. (I am sorry about the ancient units; they are a result of ancient history.) mike At 09:00 PM 03/09/2007, Ruth Sponsler wrote: > it would help their understanding to know about >variations in natural background levels scross the USA Mike McNaughton Los Alamos National Lab. email: mcnaught at LANL.gov or mcnaughton at LANL.gov phone: 505-667-6130; page: 505-664-7733 From welch at jlab.org Mon Mar 12 16:54:49 2007 From: welch at jlab.org (Keith Welch) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:54:49 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RCT Salary Survey Message-ID: <45F5CC29.6000900@jlab.org> Can anyone point me to some reasonably recent data on HP Tech salaries? I've got the HPS salary survey for 2005, and it contains a category for technician, but it has a relatively small number of responders (the '06 survey doesn't have a category for techs). Thanks much. Keith Welch welch at jlab.org From EMERDF at nv.doe.gov Mon Mar 12 17:41:59 2007 From: EMERDF at nv.doe.gov (Emer, Dudley) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:41:59 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20070312141907.026ddda0@esh-mail.lanl.gov> References: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> <325037.63260.qm@web32511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20070312141907.026ddda0@esh-mail.lanl.gov> Message-ID: For natural background around the Nevada Test Site look at http://www.cemp.dri.edu/cemp/ and select one of the stations (no apology for the ancient units, I am ancient) Dudley Emer National Security Technologies Nevada Test Site 702-295-7808 office 702-794-5824 pager 702-521-8577 cell -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Michael McNaughton Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 1:26 PM To: Ruth Sponsler; Diane Griffiths; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine For natural background in northern New Mexico, look at http://newnet.lanl.gov/stabyloc.asp and select one of the stations. (I am sorry about the ancient units; they are a result of ancient history.) mike At 09:00 PM 03/09/2007, Ruth Sponsler wrote: > it would help their understanding to know about >variations in natural background levels scross the USA Mike McNaughton Los Alamos National Lab. email: mcnaught at LANL.gov or mcnaughton at LANL.gov phone: 505-667-6130; page: 505-664-7733 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jaro-10kbq at sympatico.ca Mon Mar 12 17:49:32 2007 From: jaro-10kbq at sympatico.ca (Jaro) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:49:32 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] a radioactive "hot start model" Message-ID: http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/press-release-details.cfm?newsID=729 A Hot Start Might Explain Geysers on Enceladus March 12, 2007 (Source: Jet Propulsion Laboratory) A hot start billions of years ago might have set into motion the forces that power geysers on Saturn's moon Enceladus. "Deep inside Enceladus, our model indicates we've got an organic brew, a heat source and liquid water, all key ingredients for life," said Dr. Dennis Matson, Cassini project scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "And while no one is claiming that we have found life by any means, we probably have evidence for a place that might be hospitable to life." Since NASA's Voyager spacecraft first returned images of the moon's snowy white surface, scientists have suspected Enceladus had to have something unusual happening within that shell. Cameras on NASA's Cassini orbiter seemed to confirm that suspicion in 2005 when they spotted geysers on Enceladus ejecting water vapor and ice crystals from its south polar region. The challenge for researchers has been to figure out how this small ice ball could produce the levels of heat needed to fuel such eruptions. A new model suggests the rapid decay of radioactive elements within Enceladus shortly after it formed may have jump-started the long-term heating of the moon's interior that continues today. The model provides support for another recent, related finding, which indicates that Enceladus' icy plumes contain molecules that require elevated temperatures to form. "Enceladus is a very small body, and it's made almost entirely of ice and rock. The puzzle is how the moon developed a warm core," said Dr. Julie Castillo, the lead scientist developing the new model at JPL. "The only way to achieve such high temperatures at Enceladus is through the very rapid decay of some radioactive species." The hot start model suggests Enceladus began as a mixed-up ball of ice and rock that contained rapidly decaying radioactive isotopes of aluminum and iron. The decomposition of those isotopes -- over a period of about 7 million years -- would produce enormous amounts of heat. [[ ...somehow this is viewed as being more plausible than a 'georeactor' ??]] This would result in the consolidation of rocky material at the core surrounded by a shell of ice. According to the theory, the remaining, more slowly decaying radioactivity in the core could continue to warm and melt the moon's interior for billions of years, along with tidal forces from Saturn's gravitational tug. Scientists have also found the model helpful in explaining how Enceladus might have produced the chemicals in the plume, as measured by Cassini's ion and neutral mass spectrometer. Matson is lead author of a new study of the plume's composition, which appears in the April issue of the journal Icarus. Although the plume is predominantly made up of water vapor, the spectrometer also detected within the plume minor amounts of gaseous nitrogen, methane, carbon dioxide, propane and acetylene. Scientists were particularly surprised by the nitrogen because they don't think it could have been part of Enceladus' original makeup. Instead, Matson's team suggests it is the product of the decomposition of ammonia deep within the moon, where the warm core and surrounding liquid water meet. The thermal decomposition of ammonia would require temperatures as high as 577 degrees Celsius (1070 degrees Fahrenheit), depending on whether catalysts such as clay minerals are present. And while the long-term decay of radioactive species and current tidal forces alone cannot account for such high temperatures, with the help of the hot start model, they can. The scalding conditions are also favorable for the formation of simple hydrocarbon chains, basic building blocks of life, which Cassini's spectrometer detected in small amounts within Enceladus' plume. The team concludes that so far, all the findings and the hot start model indicate that a warm, organic-rich mixture was produced below the surface of Enceladus and might still be present today, making the moon a promising kitchen for the cooking of primordial soup. To gather more information about the chemistry within Enceladus, the team plans to directly measure the gas emanating from the plume during a flyby scheduled for March 2008. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.10/720 - Release Date: 3/12/2007 7:19 PM From wwebber2004 at comcast.net Mon Mar 12 18:56:06 2007 From: wwebber2004 at comcast.net (Bill) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:56:06 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Exempt neutron sources In-Reply-To: <014801c76486$980491a0$4001a8c0@acer> References: <014801c76486$980491a0$4001a8c0@acer> Message-ID: <45F5E896.9090409@comcast.net> Philo T. Farnsworth: Inventor of the modern Television and the tabletop fusion reactor. You can build your own fusion reactor for $1000 in parts. It produces up to 1,000,000 neutrons/sec. Just thought you might like to know about another source of neutrons. These are available on the net. Marco Caceci wrote: > Thanks to all who commented on my previous post, expecially Franz who > pointed to the relevant EU regulations. A working link is > http://ec.europa.eu/energy/nuclear/radioprotection/doc/legislation/9629_ > en.pdf > > I understand that indeed one can 'easily' move, for example, 10.000 > bequerels of Cf252 in this continent, this quantity being exempt. That > much Cf would shoot some 300 neutrons per second, which would be enough > for my purposes and probably further extend my lifespan (being myself > living proof that hormesis works). I would imagine no other <10^4 Bq > alpha-Be source would produce neutrons with >3% efficiency, maybe > somebody can correct me there. > > Next obvious question: anybody in Europe or elsewhere (excepting The > Source, thank you, who doesn't understand my English) capable or willing > to provide exempt Cf sources? > > Maybe I should call in my karma chips on this: in my academic past I > used to liberally gave away free Am and Cm sources I used to make myself > by the time-tested "dip a needle and burn it on a flame" method, in > particular to poor high school teachers who could so do experiments that > probably would now land them on the front page on the NY Times. So, > anybody in this or any vicinity can loan me a free exempt Cf sample > for evaluation purposes? > > Thank you all again and have a great week > > Marco > > Marco Caceci > LQC sl > > The Hague > The Netherlands > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > From cobdw at tds.net Mon Mar 12 18:59:06 2007 From: cobdw at tds.net (cobdw at tds.net) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:59:06 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] U 238 BKG in US Message-ID: <20070312185906.84SWL.58672.root@webfep12> To all, I am in need of some information for a survey plan that I am developing. Can anyone point me in the right direction to determine the average background for U-238 in the southern California area? Specific area would be San Clemente. Additionally, can anyone point me in the right direction to obtain the cpm to microRem/hr ratio for a 3x3 NaI detector for the U-238 prodigy gamma emitters? Thanks in advance, D. Coble From terryj at iit.edu Mon Mar 12 20:55:39 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:55:39 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> Message-ID: Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few years ago. We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I think that she thought we were a bit disjointed. Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so about 24 mg was K-40. We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could observe a peak. The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with those "hot" bananas. Jeff On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) wrote: > It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my > office; > "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about > three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium > dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. > When I > go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear > nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > Behalf Of John Jacobus > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM > To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com > Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive > surprise("Yellow cake") > > > http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- > uranium12mar12,1 > ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section > > Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise > > A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an > estate sale. > > By Stephen Hudak > Orlando Sentinel > > March 12, 2007 > > BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and > pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an > estate's > junk and tchotchkes. > > His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. > > "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an > estate sale," Cafaro said. > "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. > Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? > Uranium? > I think that's illegal.' " > > Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three > dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a > hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office > domestic > security task force. > > They focused on a container the size of a soup can. > Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that > held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral > that, in > larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or > enriched for weapons. > > In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in > part, > on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi > President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, > presumably > to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. > > "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," > Cafaro > said. > > The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 > years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for > disposal. > > Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a > weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics > department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not > pose a serious threat in small quantities. > > "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. > "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." > > Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law > Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the > agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially > dangerous. > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or > omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; > that > we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; > that we > cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore > there > cannot be an American solution to every world problem." > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ____________ > Bored stiff? Loosen up... > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. > http://games.yahoo.com/games/front > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// > radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other > settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Mon Mar 12 21:30:02 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:30:02 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> Message-ID: <97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> Jerry et al K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole body counting, and I used it to insure may counter was working properly. If the peack at 1.46 MeV was not present, the counter was assumed to be not working correctly. John *************** John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Terry" To: "radsafe" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few > years ago. > > We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the > store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I think > that she thought we were a bit disjointed. > > Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so about > 24 mg was K-40. > > We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could > observe a peak. > > The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with > those "hot" bananas. > > Jeff > > > > On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) wrote: > >> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my office; >> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about >> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium >> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I >> go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear >> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >> Behalf Of John Jacobus >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM >> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive >> surprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- uranium12mar12,1 >> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section >> >> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise >> >> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an >> estate sale. >> >> By Stephen Hudak >> Orlando Sentinel >> >> March 12, 2007 >> >> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and >> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's >> junk and tchotchkes. >> >> His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. >> >> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an >> estate sale," Cafaro said. >> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. >> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? >> I think that's illegal.' " >> >> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three >> dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a >> hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic >> security task force. >> >> They focused on a container the size of a soup can. >> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that >> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in >> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or >> enriched for weapons. >> >> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, >> on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi >> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably >> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. >> >> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro >> said. >> >> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 >> years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for >> disposal. >> >> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a >> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics >> department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not >> pose a serious threat in small quantities. >> >> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. >> "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." >> >> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law >> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the >> agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially >> dangerous. >> >> >> +++++++++++++++++++ >> "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or >> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that >> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we >> cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there >> cannot be an American solution to every world problem." >> -- John F. Kennedy >> -- John >> John Jacobus, MS >> Certified Health Physicist >> e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ __ >> ____________ >> Bored stiff? Loosen up... >> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. >> http://games.yahoo.com/games/front >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// >> radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Tue Mar 13 02:38:20 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:38:20 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine References: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> <008a01c76516$e13b1520$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F287@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Jerry and friends, Not only "eventually," it's been done. See, e.g.,: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15133294 Not only is this an experiment identifying biological/physiological responses to radon therapy by our friend Yamaoka (who moved from very successful laboratory work that was being ignored by the drug-surgery committed medical community, to the Misasa Spa Hospital to treat patients), and this is a CLINICAL TRIAL, which ties these responses directly to clinical results in actual patients! If the abstract isn't sufficient, this is an OPEN ACCESS paper. Download it; read it. (I've sent this before.) Now, also click on "Related Articles" on the right. Read these. I've distributed some of these before also. See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands to the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 You can also go in this direction: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16810484 See also the papers of our friend Dr. Falkenbach, the former attending physician at Heilstollen, which you can also see at: http://www.radscihealth.org:9000/rsh/dd3/searchResult2.jsp?keyword4=2.2.2.4+Radon+treatments (If you get a broken link, if it is to a doc at "cnts.wpi.edu," you can replace that with "radscihealth.org.") Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Cuttler [mailto:jerrycuttler at rogers.com] Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:25 PM To: John Jacobus; Muckerheide, Jim (CDA); Patricia Lewis; Barbra Erickson; RAD-SCI-L Cc: Scott, Bobby; Christoph K?stinger; Ted Rockwell; Edward Calabrese; Ron Mitchel; Myron Pollycove; Ludwig Feinendegen; Peter Deetjen; M Vogel @MSU; TD Luckey; Robert J. Cihak; Jodi.Strzelczyk at UCHSC.edu; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine X-rays and radon are both ionizing and they affect the whole organism. X-ray studies are easier to do than radon studies, but similar studies with radon will be done eventually. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jacobus" To: "Jerry Cuttler" ; "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" ; "Patricia Lewis" ; "Barbra Erickson" ; "RAD-SCI-L" Cc: "Scott, Bobby" ; "Christoph K?stinger" ; "Ted Rockwell" ; "Edward Calabrese" ; "Ron Mitchel" ; "Myron Pollycove" ; "Ludwig Feinendegen" ; "Peter Deetjen" ; "M Vogel @MSU" ; "TD Luckey" ; "Robert J. Cihak" ; ; Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine > And what does this have to do with radon? Or radon > mines? Or ranges of motion? > > --- Jerry Cuttler wrote: > >> Here's one that used x-rays. >> There are many more ... >> From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Tue Mar 13 02:45:42 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:45:42 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> <97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Amen John, Not only would you die without potassium, it is fairly well homeostatically controlled. We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, and shielding from external radiation, cells and organisms cease to function. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R Johnson Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM To: Jeff Terry; radsafe Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") Jerry et al K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole body counting, and I used it to insure may counter was working properly. If the peack at 1.46 MeV was not present, the counter was assumed to be not working correctly. John *************** John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Terry" To: "radsafe" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few > years ago. > > We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the > store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I think > that she thought we were a bit disjointed. > > Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so about > 24 mg was K-40. > > We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could > observe a peak. > > The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with > those "hot" bananas. > > Jeff > > > > On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) wrote: > >> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my office; >> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about >> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium >> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I >> go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear >> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >> Behalf Of John Jacobus >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM >> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive >> surprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- uranium12mar12,1 >> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section >> >> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise >> >> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an >> estate sale. >> >> By Stephen Hudak >> Orlando Sentinel >> >> March 12, 2007 >> >> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and >> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's >> junk and tchotchkes. >> >> His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. >> >> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an >> estate sale," Cafaro said. >> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. >> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? >> I think that's illegal.' " >> >> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three >> dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a >> hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic >> security task force. >> >> They focused on a container the size of a soup can. >> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that >> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in >> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or >> enriched for weapons. >> >> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, >> on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi >> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably >> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. >> >> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro >> said. >> >> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 >> years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for >> disposal. >> >> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a >> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics >> department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not >> pose a serious threat in small quantities. >> >> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. >> "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." >> >> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law >> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the >> agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially >> dangerous. >> >> >> +++++++++++++++++++ >> "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or >> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that >> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we >> cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there >> cannot be an American solution to every world problem." >> -- John F. Kennedy >> -- John >> John Jacobus, MS >> Certified Health Physicist >> e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ __ >> ____________ >> Bored stiff? Loosen up... >> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. >> http://games.yahoo.com/games/front >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// >> radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From bcradsafers at hotmail.com Tue Mar 13 04:32:26 2007 From: bcradsafers at hotmail.com (Bjorn Cedervall) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:32:26 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range.../Heilstollen, Arthritis & Rheum. In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F287@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: >See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands to >the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 I was not able to find this volume via my library. The journal has volume 44 and 46 but not 45. Anyone who could explain? Bjorn Cedervall bcradsafers at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18226&moid=7581 From rhelbig at california.com Tue Mar 13 05:54:30 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 02:54:30 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fw: New Mexico DU bill needs vets to testify Message-ID: <022e01c7655d$fcce7060$29425142@roger1> This is how the DU testing legislation has spread from state to state - and eventually, they will convince the world that using it to kill tanks a few years ago was a war crime - this probably explains Herbert Reed's speaking tour to New Mexico Sheree wrote: To: "Ward Reilly LOUISIANA" , "Thinkcivic OKLAHOMA" , "Sue Dayton New Mexico?" , "SteveLeeperGA 1.06new" , "Stephen Lendman" , "Sakura SF Bay" , , "Romi Elnagar" , "Phil OREGON VetDueProc" , "New Peace CALIFORNIA" , "Mele from Hawaii" , "MargaretDUTex. new em" , "Leuren Moret" , "Karl W B Schwarz" , "Karen Parker" , "Joan Walker NY" , "Gretl Munroe MASS Grass" , "Doug R" , "dennis kyne" , "Bill OKLAHOMA Bryant" , "Angela Morano NY" From: "Sheree" Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:23:14 -0400 Subject: [NoMoreDU] Fw: New Mexico DU bill needs vets to testify ----- Original Message ----- From: Maui Peace Action To: Maui Peace Action Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 12:31 PM Subject: New Mexico DU bill needs vets to testify TO: those interested in state-level DU testing bills re: new bill in New Mexico, NM area vets to testify This was sent to a member of Maui Peace Action. The contact name below is a Taos Peace Action member. Please contact her if you can help them connect with veterans. Thanks. Mele Stokesberry A member of Taos Peace Action has written legislation to get all returning vets from Iraq (Gulf War and current one) into a voluntary pilot program for depleted uranium testing. It looks like it has good sponsorship in both house and senate, both major parties represented. We went down and leafletted at the State Capitol building, talked to some legislators, etc. last Weds. If you and Arnie know any Iraq vets (in some kind of connection to the book, I guess) who might be close enough to us geographically to be invited to testify when the bill gets to committee, please contact them with my number or me with theirs--whichever seems more respectful or suitable. Susann McCarthy susann at taosnet.com 505-758-4035 From rhelbig at california.com Tue Mar 13 06:09:18 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:09:18 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fw: [NoMoreDU] FW: Speaking Event at El Museo--Herbert Reed Message-ID: <066d01c76560$134986c0$29425142@roger1> For any of you Radsafers in New Mexico .. Herbert Reed, Staff Sergeant, Army National Guard (ret) and former Corrections Officer for City of New York, now the latest poster boy for the anti-depleted uranium crusade is speaking in Santa Fe, Socorro and Taos this week. Atch is the poster. While Reed may be ill, he is not ill due to exposure to DU and he is just milking the claim, which he and six other National Guardsmen, after being tested to raise circulation for a New York tabloid, have made in Federal District Court in New York. He deserves to have some people in the audience who ask some hard questions, not just the soft balls he will get from an adoring crowd. Herbert Reed, Iraq War veteran tested positive for depleted uranium poisoning, will also appear in Taos, Wed, March 14, 6:30 pm, Kit Carson Boardroom, 118 Cruz Alta Rd., and in Socorro, Fri., March 16, 7 pm, Socorro Public Library. You can read his story at: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14321787. Please forward this news of his important appearances to your friends and mailing lists. Thanks! Marilyn for DUST, 776-8903 Thank you. Roger Helbig DUST claims to be Depleted Uranium Study Team .. study is not something that they really do! *Herbert Reed * wrote: To: Anthony Phillip , "dean.meminger at ny1news.com" , David Liebowitz , dennis kyne , florence gold , florence gold , ellie Ommanie , ellie Ommanie , Katsumi Furitsu , KAZASHI MISS , Kazuko Ito , Kesha Reed From: Herbert Reed Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 00:28:48 -0500 Subject: [NoMoreDU] FW: Speaking Event at El Museo--Herbert Reed Attached is a copy of the flyer. New Mexico and then off to Costa Rica, San Jose. to speak about Depleted Uranium/ health issues/ medical treatment at the VA. Ret SSG Herbert R. Reed United States Army Military Police Investigator ------------------------------ From: marigayl at netzero.net Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 05:10:45 +0000 To: mail at abqPeaceAndJustice.org; Vargasan at taosnet.com; annabryson9 at hotmail.com; painter at unm.edu; berylls at taosnet.com; bwhaley at newmex.com; telebill at kitcarson.net; billy at newmex.com; citizen at comcast.net; parulapete at yahoo.com; bkorman at newmex.com; SUNKINGNM at yahoo.com; contactus at cardnm.org; cathiesullivan at att.net; ccns at nuclearactive.org; bain at newmex.com; energy at culturalenergy.org; damacio2010 at yahoo.com; domdanc at yahoo.com; tocino at cnsp.com; vailmountainchild at msn.com; link at cybermesa.com; desibrown at comcast.net; dianegledhill at earthlink.net; ellenbro at laplaza.org; peace4colombia at gmail.com; herbert_reed at msn.com; habeaumont at aol.com; jllustig at aol.com; innerlight52 at hotmail.com; jimwilliams at kunm.org; jofo at laplaza.org; mobalsamo at hotmail.com; jrackertaos at yahoo.com; jarends at nuclearactive.org; khf at hncc.org; lapaz at zianet.com; kpquinn at kitcarson.net; lvpeacecenter at desertgate.com Subject: Fw: Speaking Event at El Museo--Herbert Reed Herbert Reed, Iraq War veteran tested positive for depleted uranium poisoning, will also appear in Taos, Wed, March 14, 6:30 pm, Kit Carson Boardroom, 118 Cruz Alta Rd., and in Socorro, Fri., March 16, 7 pm, Socorro Public Library. You can read his story at: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14321787. Please forward this news of his important appearances to your friends and mailing lists. Thanks! Marilyn for DUST, 776-8903 Please note: forwarded message attached Dear all: In a limited transformation of self, we the coalition of groups listed below offer the opportunity to hear and speak with a veteran of 2 wars and 10 year veteran of the NYPD. Please distribute widely among your mailing lists. Dissident Peace TEO p.s. high res images of flyer can be made available for reprinting. From rhelbig at california.com Tue Mar 13 06:17:17 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:17:17 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Mexico DU Bill Message-ID: <067501c76561$2b4c4400$29425142@roger1> Looks pretty innocuous until you realize who is behind it and what their ultimate goal is - now, how can any legislator be against such an innocuous bill that is "for the troops" HOUSE BILL 736 48th legislature - STATE OF NEW MEXICO - first session, 2007 INTRODUCED BY Thomas A. Anderson AN ACT RELATING TO VETERANS' AFFAIRS; PROVIDING FOR ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING RELATED TO DEPLETED URANIUM. BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO: Section 1. DEPLETED URANIUM EXPOSURE--ASSISTANCE TO VETERANS--REPORT TO LEGISLATURE.-- A. As used in this section: (1) "eligible member" means a member of the New Mexico national guard who served in the Persian Gulf war, as defined in 38 USC 101, or in an area designated as a combat zone by the president of the United States during Operation Enduring Freedom or Operation Iraqi Freedom; (2) "depleted uranium" means uranium containing less uranium-235 than the naturally occurring distribution of uranium isotopes; (3) "military physician" includes a physician who is under contract with the United States department of defense to provide physician services to members of the armed forces; and (4) "veteran" means a veteran as defined in Subsection C of Section 9-22-3 NMSA 1978 who served as an eligible member. B. On and after the effective date of this 2007 act, the adjutant general and the secretary of veterans' services shall assist any eligible member who has been assigned a risk level I, II or III for depleted uranium exposure by the eligible member or veteran's branch of service, is referred by a military physician or has reason to believe that the eligible member or veteran was exposed to depleted uranium during such service, in obtaining federal treatment services, including a best practice health screening test for exposure to depleted uranium using a bioassay procedure involving sensitive methods capable of detecting depleted uranium at low levels and the use of equipment with the capacity to discriminate between different radioisotopes in naturally occurring levels of uranium and the characteristic ratio and marker for depleted uranium. No state funds shall be used to pay for such tests or such other federal treatment services. C. On or before November 1, 2007, the adjutant general shall submit a report to the appropriate interim committee of the legislature on the scope and adequacy of training received by members of the New Mexico national guard on detecting whether their service as eligible members is likely to entail, or to have entailed, exposure to depleted uranium. The report shall include an assessment of the feasibility and cost of adding pre-deployment training concerning potential exposure to depleted uranium and other toxic chemical substances and the precautions recommended under combat and noncombat conditions while in a combat zone. From rhelbig at california.com Tue Mar 13 06:20:10 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:20:10 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Mexico Legislature List of Members Message-ID: <067d01c76561$92531520$29425142@roger1> they reconvene just in time for Herbert Reed's blitz which starts in Santa Fe! http://legis.state.nm.us/lcs/lcsdocs/HouseMailingList.PDF From ksparth at yahoo.co.uk Tue Mar 13 06:18:14 2007 From: ksparth at yahoo.co.uk (parthasarathy k s) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:18:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Disposal of contaminated whiskey Message-ID: <598804.55889.qm@web23111.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Friends, Soon after the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power station took place, the Atomic Energy Regulatory Board initiated a monitoring programme for food especially milk products imported in bulk quantities. Many other items were also tested. A consumer organisation wanted to test choccolates. A few eyebrows were raised when the laboratory asked a for a few kilogramme of the stuff! At least in one country there was a debate on the disposal of contaminated food stuff. They did not realize that the food is active enough as food but innocuous as radioactive material It was rumoured that those in our lab were keen to test a few bottles of choicest whiskey; disposal of it may not have been a serious issue! Funds collected by the lab through food monitoring was a substantial part of the revenue for a few years immediately following the reactor accident! I have used a packet of radium-containing fertilizer as a source in our lab. We made an instrument containing a row of Geiger Mueller counters to demonstrate the presence of radioactivity.The output pulses from the counters were made to trigger a bulb; there was also an audio circruit which made crackling sounds when a box of beach sands( monazite) was brought near the counters. Regards K.S.Parthasarathy Regards K.S.Parthasarathy ----- Original Message ---- From: Jeff Terry To: radsafe Sent: Tuesday, 13 March, 2007 7:25:39 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise("Yellow cake") Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few years ago. We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I think that she thought we were a bit disjointed. Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so about 24 mg was K-40. We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could observe a peak. The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with those "hot" bananas. Jeff ___________________________________________________________ All New Yahoo! Mail ? Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html From m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl Tue Mar 13 07:12:02 2007 From: m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl (Marcel Schouwenburg) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:12:02 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> <97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <45F69512.70306@tudelft.nl> Jim, To be complete and make threads more usefull, please provide at least one or more references in your postings. This is not specifically a remark to only your postings but does apply to all messages being send to RadSafe. Please provide at least references in a way that is e.g. also used in Health Physics magazine, include internet links or, if possible and allowed, attach the article(s) in the form of pdf-files to a message. With kind regards, Marcel Schouwenburg Head / Lecturer Training Centre Delft, Health Physicist, expert level 2 RadSafe Moderator & Listowner National Centre for Radiation Protection (Dutch abbr. NCSV) Delft University of Technology Faculty of Applied Sciences / Reactor Institute Delft Mekelweg 15 NL - 2629 JB DELFT The Netherlands T: +31 (0)15 27 86575 F: +31 (0)15 27 81717 M: +31 (0)6 419 83 145 E: m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl Muckerheide, Jim (CDA) wrote: >Amen John, > >Not only would you die without potassium, it is fairly well homeostatically controlled. > >We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, and shielding from external radiation, cells and organisms cease to function. > >Regards, Jim > > >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R Johnson >Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM >To: Jeff Terry; radsafe >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > >Jerry et al > >K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole body counting, and I used >it to insure may counter was working properly. If the peack at 1.46 MeV was >not present, the counter was assumed to be not working correctly. > >John >*************** >John R Johnson >CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >Vancouver, B. C. >Canada >(604) 222-9840 >idias at interchange.ubc.ca > > > > From jerrycuttler at rogers.com Mon Mar 12 21:25:33 2007 From: jerrycuttler at rogers.com (Jerry Cuttler) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 22:25:33 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine References: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008a01c76516$e13b1520$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> X-rays and radon are both ionizing and they affect the whole organism. X-ray studies are easier to do than radon studies, but similar studies with radon will be done eventually. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jacobus" To: "Jerry Cuttler" ; "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" ; "Patricia Lewis" ; "Barbra Erickson" ; "RAD-SCI-L" Cc: "Scott, Bobby" ; "Christoph K?stinger" ; "Ted Rockwell" ; "Edward Calabrese" ; "Ron Mitchel" ; "Myron Pollycove" ; "Ludwig Feinendegen" ; "Peter Deetjen" ; "M Vogel @MSU" ; "TD Luckey" ; "Robert J. Cihak" ; ; Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine > And what does this have to do with radon? Or radon > mines? Or ranges of motion? > > --- Jerry Cuttler wrote: > >> Here's one that used x-rays. >> There are many more ... >> From TG68 at gmx.net Mon Mar 12 20:36:04 2007 From: TG68 at gmx.net (Heike) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:36:04 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Statistics-evaluation of digital images Message-ID: <45F60004.2020304@gmx.net> Dear Mr. Cedervall; For a rating method with no interval scaled values (meaning that equally spaced intervals on the scale can not be compared in a meaningful manner or e.g. is an A average twice as good as a C average?) and a small sample size , I would suggest using a distribution free method ( non-parametric test) like the Wilcoxon- Mann Whitney test . This test should be available in any kind of statistical software package like systat , spss or etc. Hope this information was helpful. Regards; Heike Ringeling Stanford Dosimetry, LLC From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Tue Mar 13 09:37:14 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:37:14 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range.../Heilstollen, Arthritis & Rheum. References: Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F289@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Hi Bjorn, In case you can't get it, you can retrieve the full paper from: radscihealth.org/rsh/papers/VanTubergen02ArthRheu-SpaTherRCTforAS.pdf You can also click on her name on the PubMed abstract. She has several related papers, one of which is co-authored with Falkenbach. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Bjorn Cedervall Sent: Tue 3/13/2007 5:32 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range.../Heilstollen,Arthritis & Rheum. >See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands to >the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 I was not able to find this volume via my library. The journal has volume 44 and 46 but not 45. Anyone who could explain? Bjorn Cedervall bcradsafers at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18226&moid=7581 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From lewis at radonmine.com Tue Mar 13 10:03:14 2007 From: lewis at radonmine.com (Patricia Lewis) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:03:14 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] assessment at radonmine References: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> <008a01c76516$e13b1520$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> Message-ID: <003501c76580$bccefed0$6501a8c0@HOME> That x-ray studies "are easier to do" is not the point. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Cuttler" Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine | X-rays and radon are both ionizing and they affect the whole organism. | X-ray studies are easier to do than radon studies, but similar studies with | radon will be done eventually. From lewis at radonmine.com Tue Mar 13 10:29:51 2007 From: lewis at radonmine.com (Patricia Lewis) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:29:51 -0600 Subject: [SPAM] RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine References: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> <008a01c76516$e13b1520$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F287@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <004101c76584$72ac6e60$6501a8c0@HOME> Friends, And, thus, the delimma. No one wants to look past their front doors and comfort zones. Our international friends have been there and have done their work very well. American medicine - mainstream and alternative - will always have difficulty with the radon therapy subject. Our goal is to simply document the findings of the radon experience at the Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine at Boulder Montana USA. It is our responsibility to do so, in so much as we can. The challenge is in that the Free Enterprise is the only one in the entire American continent who has a stake in the conversation - unless you think, like we do, that the success of radon therapy could support the success of future very low dose x-radiation therapy; and the understanding of exposures to other LDR sources. We wouldn't be this far if we hadn't snagged Barbra's efforts some years ago. And as noted by Jim - the work has been done. We just need to bring that information to a broader (American) public. I appreciate everyone's interest in following this subject. pat. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" Jerry and friends, Not only "eventually," it's been done. See, e.g.,: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15133294 Not only is this an experiment identifying biological/physiological responses to radon therapy by our friend Yamaoka (who moved from very successful laboratory work that was being ignored by the drug-surgery committed medical community, to the Misasa Spa Hospital to treat patients), and this is a CLINICAL TRIAL, which ties these responses directly to clinical results in actual patients! If the abstract isn't sufficient, this is an OPEN ACCESS paper. Download it; read it. (I've sent this before.) Now, also click on "Related Articles" on the right. Read these. I've distributed some of these before also. See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands to the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 You can also go in this direction: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16810484 See also the papers of our friend Dr. Falkenbach, the former attending physician at Heilstollen, which you can also see at: http://www.radscihealth.org:9000/rsh/dd3/searchResult2.jsp?keyword4=2.2.2.4+Radon+treatments (If you get a broken link, if it is to a doc at "cnts.wpi.edu," you can replace that with "radscihealth.org.") Regards, Jim From LNMolino at aol.com Tue Mar 13 11:00:20 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:00:20 EDT Subject: [ RadSafe ] Federal Agency Creates Web Site for Treating Victims of Dirty Bombs Message-ID: Federal Agency Creates Web Site for Treating Victims of Dirty Bombs and Other Forms of Radioactive Terrorism By DAN CHILDS ABC News Medical Unit March 12, 2007 - - An explosion rocks a local high school. Minutes later, casualties flood into a hospital emergency room. Only after the first wave of wounded arrive is the hospital informed that the explosion was a result of a dirty bomb -- a weapon designed to scatter radioactive material throughout its blast radius. And one by one, weaknesses in the system take their toll on emergency efforts. Hospital administrators call their local radiation safety officer, but he is on vacation and can't be reached. Health workers search for but cannot locate radiation meters that could help them determine which patients suffered the highest degree of contamination. Confusion builds as medical professionals wonder about the appropriate way to deal with so many patients as radioactive patients lay waiting for appropriate treatment, possibly contaminating other patients and health professionals. At the climax of the disaster, the emergency bays of the hospital close down. The system of medical treatment grinds to a halt. All that remains now is a slim hope that casualties and contamination can somehow be kept to a minimum. Fortunately, the above was just a drill -- one of many conducted in communities across the country since the 9/11 attacks. But the scenario was frighteningly realistic. And the ways in which the situation was mishandled exposed the weak spots in the medical system of one county when it came to a possible radiological disaster. "They flubbed it terribly," says Dr. John Moulder, professor of radiation oncology at the Medical College of Wisconsin in Milwaukee. Moulder, who did not reveal the location of the scenario described above, says the missteps in the response could have happened anywhere else in the country. It is a nightmarish scenario. But federal officials hope a new online tool could help health professionals cope with such an episode more effectively. Preparing for Impending Disaster The words "dirty bomb" have been on the lips of health and law enforcement officials since the terrorist attacks of 2001. But even now, a surefire solution for dealing with such a catastrophe has been elusive. Moulder was part of the team that developed a new resource -- a Web site conceived by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services -- that provides a readily accessible plan of action. "The need for this resource was first discussed within a couple of months of 9/11," Moulder says. "It has taken this long to develop because it is a federal document." The need for such a resource is clear, he says. "Most medical professionals do not know how to deal with radiation injuries," Moulder says. "And since they will probably never see one, they have little incentive to spend days learning the material." Other health experts in the field of radiation treatment say the Web site, which includes detailed guidelines for triage and treatment of patients, is a welcome resource. "I must admit I am very impressed by this Web site," says Dr. Jack Little, professor of radiobiology at the Harvard School of Public Health. "In the best of all possible worlds, one would never need to consult it. However, having it there and widely available on the Internet is, to my mind, a great service." But before the algorithms and guidelines of the site can be applied, health professionals must first be familiar with the site. If they are not, the Web site may not be the first stop for useful information. Web Site May Frighten Public But while the Web site may represent a boon for health workers, for the public, it may give a terrifying peek into the difficult decisions that would have to be made in the event of a radioactive disaster. The site is laced with euphemisms. "Expectant" patients are those "who are seriously injured and in whom survivability is poor &" Recommended treatment: "Provide comfort care." Numerous flowcharts branch downward into frightening conclusions. Treatment of survivors. Management of the deceased. Follow the link of the latter possibility, and receive this guidance: "If an autopsy is necessary, refrigerate the decedent and defer the procedure until a health physicist can assist in planning." For this reason, Moulder says, the site may be best left to health professionals. "Scattered within the site is stuff at the lay consumer level, but most of the resources in there assume some knowledge of medicine," he says. Other health experts agree. "I am not sure it is meant for lay people. It is pretty specialized and detailed," says Dr. Ziad Kazzi, medical toxicologist at the University of Alabama department of emergency medicine in Birmingham. "Radiation is not user-friendly, in general," he adds. Bobby Scott, senior scientist at the Lovelace Respiratory Research Institute in Albuquerque, N.M., says public worries at the idea of measures that would have to be taken after such an event are to be expected. "The very thought of having to prepare for the possibility of a nuclear- or radiological-weapon-associated mass casualty event in the U.S. is likely to frighten many members of the public," he says. But he adds that certain features of the site are not likely to leave lay readers with a feeling of warm reassurance. "The public may also find somewhat disconcerting the disclaimer statement 'Neither the U.S. government nor any agency thereof, nor any of their employees, make any warranty, express or implied, or assumes any legal responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information disclosed,'" Scott says. Are We Prepared? Moulder says the Web site is a step in the right direction, but he believes there is still a long way to go before health workers and the government are fully prepared for the unthinkable. "It's better than anything else we've had before, but I don't think it's good enough yet," he says. "We are not currently equipped to deal with radiation mass casualties. "Let's hope it's always scenarios and never the real thing." To visit the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services' Radiation Event Medical Management site, click here _http://remm.nlm.gov/_ (http://remm.nlm.gov/) Copyright C 2007 ABC News Internet Ventures SOURCE: _http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2939106&page=1_ (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2939106&page=1) Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From bcradsafers at hotmail.com Tue Mar 13 11:01:05 2007 From: bcradsafers at hotmail.com (Bjorn Cedervall) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:01:05 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range.../Heilstollen, Arthritis & Rheum. In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F289@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: Thank you Jim, Obviously the year as well as the volume were wrong in the first link (to PubMed). Bjorn Cedervall bcradsafers at hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- >In case you can't get it, you can retrieve the full paper from: >radscihealth.org/rsh/papers/VanTubergen02ArthRheu-SpaTherRCTforAS.pdf > >You can also click on her name on the PubMed abstract. She has several >related papers, one of which is co-authored with Falkenbach. > >Regards, Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Bjorn Cedervall >Sent: Tue 3/13/2007 5:32 AM >To: radsafe at radlab.nl >Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range.../Heilstollen,Arthritis & >Rheum. > > > >See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands >to > >the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: > >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 > >I was not able to find this volume via my library. The journal has volume >44 >and 46 but not 45. >Anyone who could explain? > >Bjorn Cedervall bcradsafers at hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more?.then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 From hflong at pacbell.net Tue Mar 13 11:53:03 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Societal Cost vs Patient Power for Pain Relief with Radon Spa . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070313165303.83007.qmail@web83514.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> This study of very painful, rigid spine from rheumatic inflammation (AS) does not mention pain and patient choice, as if unimportant where "societal cost" is the main interest! In order for the Dutch subjects to have gone to work more (one objective measure of pain) thay must have felt much better and would have chosen to use some of their own money, as in the portion of the premium kept by Americans with Health Savings Accounts, for the obviously great relief and pleasure of the radon spa. Why do we have to read this between the lines? This article should be circulated among Americans with AS by the Health Mine. Howard Long Bjorn Cedervall wrote: Thank you Jim, Obviously the year as well as the volume were wrong in the first link (to PubMed). Bjorn Cedervall bcradsafers at hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- >In case you can't get it, you can retrieve the full paper from: >radscihealth.org/rsh/papers/VanTubergen02ArthRheu-SpaTherRCTforAS.pdf From jjcohen at prodigy.net Tue Mar 13 13:31:02 2007 From: jjcohen at prodigy.net (jjcohen at prodigy.net) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:31:02 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Floridapawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl><97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <000601c7659d$d5fac200$b3f1e245@domainnotset.invalid> Jim, Several years ago, Don Luckey tried to obtain research funding to determine the effects of raising animals on K-40 free diets (i.e. all potassium consumed bring K-139). As I recall, he did not receive support from DoE or any other agency for the purpose. What's the evidence showing indicating adverse effects from K-40 deficiency? Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" To: "John R Johnson" ; "Jeff Terry" ; "radsafe" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:45 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Floridapawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") Amen John, Not only would you die without potassium, it is fairly well homeostatically controlled. We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, and shielding from external radiation, cells and organisms cease to function. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R Johnson Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM To: Jeff Terry; radsafe Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") Jerry et al K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole body counting, and I used it to insure may counter was working properly. If the peack at 1.46 MeV was not present, the counter was assumed to be not working correctly. John *************** John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Terry" To: "radsafe" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few > years ago. > > We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the > store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I think > that she thought we were a bit disjointed. > > Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so about > 24 mg was K-40. > > We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could > observe a peak. > > The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with > those "hot" bananas. > > Jeff > > > > On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) wrote: > >> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my office; >> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about >> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium >> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I >> go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear >> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >> Behalf Of John Jacobus >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM >> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive >> surprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- uranium12mar12,1 >> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section >> >> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise >> >> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an >> estate sale. >> >> By Stephen Hudak >> Orlando Sentinel >> >> March 12, 2007 >> >> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and >> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's >> junk and tchotchkes. >> >> His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. >> >> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an >> estate sale," Cafaro said. >> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. >> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? >> I think that's illegal.' " >> >> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three >> dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a >> hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic >> security task force. >> >> They focused on a container the size of a soup can. >> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that >> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in >> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or >> enriched for weapons. >> >> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, >> on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi >> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably >> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. >> >> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro >> said. >> >> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 >> years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for >> disposal. >> >> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a >> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics >> department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not >> pose a serious threat in small quantities. >> >> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. >> "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." >> >> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law >> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the >> agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially >> dangerous. >> >> >> +++++++++++++++++++ >> "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or >> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that >> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we >> cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there >> cannot be an American solution to every world problem." >> -- John F. Kennedy >> -- John >> John Jacobus, MS >> Certified Health Physicist >> e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ __ >> ____________ >> Bored stiff? Loosen up... >> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. >> http://games.yahoo.com/games/front >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// >> radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Tue Mar 13 12:46:46 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:46:46 -0400 Subject: [SPAM] RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine References: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> <008a01c76516$e13b1520$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F287@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> <004101c76584$72ac6e60$6501a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F28A@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Good point Pat. Even your Montana mine friends have limited interest. And, in addition to the many closed facilities, the open ones, like Saratoga Springs NY, no longer include the fact that they get radon and radium in the baths and the waters. About 10+ years ago, you could get the radium data on the various springs in the region. Now, the word radium has been expunged from the literature, including the various web sites, not limited to the "official" NY state web sites. You can also see some of the sources at: http://www.radscihealth.org/rsh/docs/Radon/RnTherapiesIndex.htm There are other more recent (than 2002) papers on PubMed. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Lewis [mailto:lewis at radonmine.com] Sent: Tue 3/13/2007 11:29 AM To: Muckerheide, Jim (CDA); Jerry Cuttler; John Jacobus; Barbra Erickson; RAD-SCI-L Cc: Scott, Bobby; Christoph K?stinger; Ted Rockwell; Edward Calabrese; Ron Mitchel; Myron Pollycove; Ludwig Feinendegen; Peter Deetjen; M Vogel @MSU; TD Luckey; Robert J. Cihak; Jodi.Strzelczyk at UCHSC.edu; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine Friends, And, thus, the delimma. No one wants to look past their front doors and comfort zones. Our international friends have been there and have done their work very well. American medicine - mainstream and alternative - will always have difficulty with the radon therapy subject. Our goal is to simply document the findings of the radon experience at the Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine at Boulder Montana USA. It is our responsibility to do so, in so much as we can. The challenge is in that the Free Enterprise is the only one in the entire American continent who has a stake in the conversation - unless you think, like we do, that the success of radon therapy could support the success of future very low dose x-radiation therapy; and the understanding of exposures to other LDR sources. We wouldn't be this far if we hadn't snagged Barbra's efforts some years ago. And as noted by Jim - the work has been done. We just need to bring that information to a broader (American) public. I appreciate everyone's interest in following this subject. pat. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" Jerry and friends, Not only "eventually," it's been done. See, e.g.,: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15133294 Not only is this an experiment identifying biological/physiological responses to radon therapy by our friend Yamaoka (who moved from very successful laboratory work that was being ignored by the drug-surgery committed medical community, to the Misasa Spa Hospital to treat patients), and this is a CLINICAL TRIAL, which ties these responses directly to clinical results in actual patients! If the abstract isn't sufficient, this is an OPEN ACCESS paper. Download it; read it. (I've sent this before.) Now, also click on "Related Articles" on the right. Read these. I've distributed some of these before also. See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands to the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 You can also go in this direction: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16810484 See also the papers of our friend Dr. Falkenbach, the former attending physician at Heilstollen, which you can also see at: http://www.radscihealth.org:9000/rsh/dd3/searchResult2.jsp?keyword4=2.2.2.4+Radon+treatments (If you get a broken link, if it is to a doc at "cnts.wpi.edu," you can replace that with "radscihealth.org.") Regards, Jim From Jerry.Falo at us.army.mil Tue Mar 13 13:00:55 2007 From: Jerry.Falo at us.army.mil (Falo, Gerald A Dr KADIX) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:00:55 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] FW: Wolves of Water - a handbook for fighting in the Science Wars (UNCLASSIFIED) Message-ID: <10ACCA92BC30C84F8D61A1EFE74ADE1702D8E253@AMEDMLNARMC135.amed.ds.army.mil> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE All, Dr. Busby's published his latest book. Jerry -----Original Message----- From: Richard Bramhall [mailto:bramhall at llrc.org] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:09 PM To: info llrc Subject: Wolves of Water - a handbook for fighting in the Science Wars Chris Busby has published Wolves of Water, the sequel to his 1995 book Wings of Death. Wolves of Water tells the story of the last 12 years of our campaign on radioactive pollution and health in a way that is both scientific and highly personal. Indispensable for anyone involved in confronting the lies, the control and the cover-ups that characterise the Science Wars. Www.llrc.org has the detail ? a flyer and how to buy your copy (unbeatable value at ?12, or $20/?20). Online content at www.llrc.org includes an index allowing the heroes to check whether they've been acknowledged, and the guilty to check whether they've been nailed. It also lists 86 ways to conceal the truth. We have sent you this email circular because you are on our database of people who are concerned about low level radiation and health. This message has been sent to our UK list and our global list. If you do not want to receive information from us please reply, putting ?remove from LLRC? in the subject line. Low Level Radiation Campaign www.llrc.org bramhall at llrc.org Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Tue Mar 13 15:04:41 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:04:41 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Floridapawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <000601c7659d$d5fac200$b3f1e245@domainnotset.invalid> References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> <97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> <000601c7659d$d5fac200$b3f1e245@domainnotset.invalid> Message-ID: Jerry I don't know if this is the evidence you want but I found this on the www. AHA Recommendation Potassium is an element (and an electrolyte) that's essential for the body's growth and maintenance. It's necessary to keep a normal water balance between the cells and body fluids. Potassium also plays an essential role in the response of nerves to stimulation and in the contraction of muscles. Cellular enzymes need potassium to work properly. I think they are saying that a body does not work correctly unless potassium is present. John *************** John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" ; "John R Johnson" ; "Jeff Terry" ; "radsafe" Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Floridapawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > Jim, > Several years ago, Don Luckey tried to obtain research funding to > determine the effects of raising animals on K-40 free diets (i.e. all > potassium consumed bring K-139). As I recall, he did not receive support > from DoE or any other agency for the purpose. What's the evidence showing > indicating adverse effects from K-40 deficiency? > Jerry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > To: "John R Johnson" ; "Jeff Terry" > ; "radsafe" > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:45 PM > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: > Floridapawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > > > Amen John, > > Not only would you die without potassium, it is fairly well > homeostatically > controlled. > > We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, and shielding from > external radiation, cells and organisms cease to function. > > Regards, Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R Johnson > Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM > To: Jeff Terry; radsafe > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida > pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > > Jerry et al > > K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole body counting, and I used > it to insure may counter was working properly. If the peack at 1.46 MeV > was > not present, the counter was assumed to be not working correctly. > > John > *************** > John R Johnson > CEO, IDIAS, Inc. > Vancouver, B. C. > Canada > (604) 222-9840 > idias at interchange.ubc.ca > > > . > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Terry" > To: "radsafe" > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's > radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > > >> Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few >> years ago. >> >> We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the >> store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I >> think > >> that she thought we were a bit disjointed. >> >> Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so >> about >> 24 mg was K-40. >> >> We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could >> observe a peak. >> >> The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with >> those "hot" bananas. >> >> Jeff >> >> >> >> On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) wrote: >> >>> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my >>> office; >>> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about >>> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium >>> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I >>> go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear >>> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >>> Behalf Of John Jacobus >>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM >>> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive >>> surprise("Yellow cake") >>> >>> >>> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- >>> uranium12mar12,1 >>> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section >>> >>> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise >>> >>> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an >>> estate sale. >>> >>> By Stephen Hudak >>> Orlando Sentinel >>> >>> March 12, 2007 >>> >>> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and >>> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an >>> estate's >>> junk and tchotchkes. >>> >>> His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. >>> >>> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an >>> estate sale," Cafaro said. >>> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. >>> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? >>> I think that's illegal.' " >>> >>> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three >>> dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a >>> hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office >>> domestic >>> security task force. >>> >>> They focused on a container the size of a soup can. >>> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that >>> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in >>> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or >>> enriched for weapons. >>> >>> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, >>> on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi >>> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, >>> presumably >>> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. >>> >>> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro >>> said. >>> >>> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 >>> years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for >>> disposal. >>> >>> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a >>> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics >>> department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not >>> pose a serious threat in small quantities. >>> >>> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. >>> "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." >>> >>> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law >>> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the >>> agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially >>> dangerous. >>> >>> >>> +++++++++++++++++++ >>> "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or >>> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that >>> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we >>> cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there > >>> cannot be an American solution to every world problem." >>> -- John F. Kennedy >>> -- John >>> John Jacobus, MS >>> Certified Health Physicist >>> e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> __ >>> ____________ >>> Bored stiff? Loosen up... >>> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. >>> http://games.yahoo.com/games/front >>> _______________________________________________ >>> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >>> >>> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >>> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >>> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >>> >>> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >>> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >>> >>> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >>> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// >>> radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >>> >>> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >>> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the > RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the > RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From terryj at iit.edu Tue Mar 13 15:27:20 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:27:20 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> <97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <80F13C62-45BE-4F29-846F-92E178AE5193@iit.edu> Hi Jim, Do you have a reference for the ceasing to function if K-40 is removed? Thanks, Jeff On Mar 13, 2007, at 2:45 AM, Muckerheide, Jim (CDA) wrote: > > We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, and shielding > from external radiation, cells and organisms cease to function. > > Regards, Jim > From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Tue Mar 13 17:05:57 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:05:57 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Correction References: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> <008a01c76516$e13b1520$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F287@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F28C@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Friends, I sent a link to a different paper on my site than the one by Van Tubergen I had originally listed as a PubMed link below. The Vol 45(5) of Arthritis Rheum. (and odd-numbered volumes since 43) exists as a companion journal in 2001, titled "Arthritis Care and Research." See: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/85515153/ABSTRACT If you can retrieve this paper as a PDF, I'd appreciate a copy for review. :-) Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: Muckerheide, Jim (CDA) [mailto:Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us] Sent: Tue 3/13/2007 3:38 AM See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands to the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Tue Mar 13 20:31:46 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:31:46 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Ref to "denatured-potassium" studies References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> <97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F28D@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Friends, These refs show the biological effects of potassium from which the K-40 has been removed (in an otherwise low-background condition - external radiation can cover for the loss of K-40 radiation). Note that the 1950s-'60s Oak Ridge work wasn't published, as Charlie Willis also stated at a joint ACRS/ACNW meeting in March 1996; and I heard from a senior AEC Biology and Medicine research official and senior Oak Ridge official following a meeting on low level radiation health effects in 1972 (I worked for a recently-retired AEC official and we were addressing developing industry policies following the Appeals Court "Calvert Cliffs decision" effects of normal operation radiation releases and Appendix I and Appendix D rulemakings). See, e.g., Don Luckey?s 1986 paper/abstract at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3097750 See some data from Luckey?s paper at: http://radscihealth.org/RSH/Data_Docs/1-3/2/1321lu86.html See also an Alexander Kuzin paper at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8148982 I have seen the abstract of one Russian paper that did similar work, but did not see an effect. I did not get a response to an inquiry about its significance before Kuzin passed away in '91. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: Muckerheide, Jim (CDA) Sent: Tue 3/13/2007 3:45 AM To: John R Johnson; Jeff Terry; radsafe Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") Amen John, Not only would you die without potassium, it is fairly well homeostatically controlled. We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, and shielding from external radiation, cells and organisms cease to function. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R Johnson Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM To: Jeff Terry; radsafe Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") Jerry et al K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole body counting, and I used it to insure may counter was working properly. If the peack at 1.46 MeV was not present, the counter was assumed to be not working correctly. John *************** John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Terry" To: "radsafe" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few > years ago. > > We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the > store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I think > that she thought we were a bit disjointed. > > Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so about > 24 mg was K-40. > > We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could > observe a peak. > > The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with > those "hot" bananas. > > Jeff > > > > On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) wrote: > >> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my office; >> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about >> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium >> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I >> go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear >> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >> Behalf Of John Jacobus >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM >> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive >> surprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- uranium12mar12,1 >> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section >> >> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise >> >> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an >> estate sale. >> >> By Stephen Hudak >> Orlando Sentinel >> >> March 12, 2007 >> >> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and >> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's >> junk and tchotchkes. >> >> His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. >> >> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an >> estate sale," Cafaro said. >> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. >> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? >> I think that's illegal.' " >> >> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three >> dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a >> hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic >> security task force. >> >> They focused on a container the size of a soup can. >> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that >> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in >> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or >> enriched for weapons. >> >> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, >> on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi >> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably >> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. >> >> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro >> said. >> >> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 >> years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for >> disposal. >> >> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a >> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics >> department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not >> pose a serious threat in small quantities. >> >> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. >> "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." >> >> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law >> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the >> agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially >> dangerous. >> >> >> +++++++++++++++++++ >> "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or >> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that >> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we >> cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there >> cannot be an American solution to every world problem." >> -- John F. Kennedy >> -- John >> John Jacobus, MS >> Certified Health Physicist >> e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ __ >> ____________ >> Bored stiff? Loosen up... >> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. >> http://games.yahoo.com/games/front >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// >> radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Wed Mar 14 04:38:23 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:38:23 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] WG: Proficiency in nuclear field Meeting Message-ID: <000201c7661c$88b502b0$49197254@pc1> Dear collegues, I forward this message for your information. For more information please visit the website given. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: activa-n at nipne.ro [mailto:activa-n at nipne.ro] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. M?rz 2007 08:44 An: christophe.bobin at cea.fr; rainer.dersch at ptb.de; hardy at comp.tamu.edu; arvic.harms at npl.co.uk; trevor.hatt at ametek-online.com; jdh at ns.ph.liv.ac.uk; ed.holden at ametek-online.com; mikael.hult at irmm.jrc.be; p.jachs at metrology.at; napol25 at hotmail.com; lena.johansson at npl.co.uk; pletessier at eichrom.com; bjorn.lind at nrpa.no; jm.losarcos at ciemat.es; amartin at rpii.ie; amcgarry at rpii.ie; cmichotte at bipm.org; danmon at mindspring.com; peter.haycocks at npl.co.uk; stuart.clarkson at med.ge.com; akp at npl.co.uk; johann.plagnard at cea.fr; gratel at bipm.org; wringer at balulinz.gv.at; franz.schoenhofer at chello.at; svec at smu.gov.sk; raf.van-ammel at irmm.jrc.be; vanin at if.usp.br; branko.vodenik at ijs.si Betreff: Proficiency in nuclear field Meeting This message is a Call for Papers (!) adressed to people involved in the Nuclear field and interested in Performance ! "Horia Hulubei" National Institute for Physics and Nuclear Engineering { IFIN - HH} Bucharest - Romania, is organizing the International Workshop on : "Proficiency Testing in applications of the Nuclear Analytical Techniques and Ionizing Radiation {Nuclear PT-2007} in October 2007. For general informations and other details, you are kindly invited to visit the website : http://nuclearpt-2007.nipne.ro Waiting for your participation, please, also, forward this e-mail to any collegues that might be interested in this event. With high consideration, On behalf of the Scientific and Organizing Committees Dr. Mike Woods - President Dr. Em. Cincu - Workshop Director From ncohen12 at comcast.net Wed Mar 14 07:45:35 2007 From: ncohen12 at comcast.net (Norm Cohen) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:45:35 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] FW: [NukeNet] Poison DUst -- D.U. video link Message-ID: <008401c76636$a9667600$0b00a8c0@office> fyi Coalition for Peace and Justice; UNPLUG Salem Campaign, 321 Barr Ave, Linwood; NJ08221; 609-601-8583; Cell Phone - 609-335-8176 _____ From: nukenet-bounces at energyjustice.net [mailto:nukenet-bounces at energyjustice.net] On Behalf Of Daisy Anders Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:35 PM To: BPAC Cc: nukenet at energyjustice.net; studentsnowar at yahoogroups.com Subject: [NukeNet] Poison DUst -- D.U. video link Poison DUst Poison DUst tells the story of young soldiers who thought they came home safely from the war, but didn't. Of a veteran's young daughter whose birth defect is strikingly similar to birth defects suffered by many Iraqi children. Of thousands of young vets who are suffering from the symptoms of uranium poisoning, and the thousands more who are likely to find themselves with these ailments in the years to come. Of a government unwilling to admit there might be a problem here. Filmmaker Sue Harris skillfully weaves the stories of these young veterans with scientific explanations of the nature of "DU" and its dangers, including interviews with former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, New York Daily News reporter Juan Gonzalez, noted physicist Michio Kaku, Dr. Rosalie Bertell, Dr. Helen Caldicott and Major Doug Rokke- the former U.S. Army DU Project head. Every American who cares about our troops should watch this film. Everyone who cares about the innocent civilians who live in the countries where these weapons are used should watch this film. And everyone who cares about the hatred of Americans that may result from the effects of our government's actions in using these weapons, should watch this film. Is there a cover-up? http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17249.htm click on link to see Poison DUst video or to make or view comments -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ATT00719.txt URL: From rorthen at cecinc.com Wed Mar 14 08:26:30 2007 From: rorthen at cecinc.com (Orthen, Rick) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:26:30 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] TXU Corp. First to Commit to New Domestic Nuclear Capacity? Message-ID: <1A8FD75BC4E45D47BF001408F6B55F1231785A@exchange-pitt.cecinc.com> First, there was this story: 03.01.07 TXU Halts Efforts To Obtain Permits for Eight Coal-Fueled Units DALLAS, TX - TXU announced today it has officially suspended efforts to obtain permits for eight coal-fueled power units in Texas. A Motion to Stay was filed yesterday with the State Office of Administrative Hearings (SOAH) for seven coal-fueled power units that are under consideration in contested proceedings before SOAH. The company also has suspended permitting activities related to an eighth permit, which was not a part of the contested proceedings. The stay request is for a period of up to six months upon approval. Upon closing of the merger agreement with Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. (KKR) and Texas Pacific Group (TPG) announced earlier this week, TXU plans to formally withdraw the eight pending air permit applications. ?This is an important step in fulfilling TXU?s commitment, made in connection with the recently announced merger, to immediately seek to suspend the permit application process for the eight units announced last year,? said Mike McCall, chief executive officer, TXU Wholesale. ?Further, upon closing the merger agreement, TXU does not intend to apply or reapply for permits to build additional coal units utilizing current pulverized coal-fuel technology.? Then this one: March 14, 2007 - TOKYO: Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. said Wednesday it has received an order for two nuclear reactors from TXU Corp. of the United States, the first export deal of equipment made by a Japanese company. Mitsubishi Heavy will provide two US-APWRs, its new pressurized water reactor with 1,700 megawatt-hours of generation capacity each, for TXU's nuclear power plant in the suburbs of Dallas, the Japanese manufacturer said in a statement. This marks the first time for a Japanese company to receive an order from abroad for a nuclear power reactor made in Japan, said MHI spokesman Kengo Tatsukawa. Tatsukawa said the company could not disclose the amount of the deal because of "confidentiality rule" with the client. The Nikkei business newspaper said the combined value is estimated at 600 billion yen (US$5.17 billion; ?3.91 billion). TXU, the largest power operator in Texas, formally notified its reactor selection to the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission on Friday, the statement said. The U.S. power operator plans to start commercial operations at the plant with new reactors starting from 2015 to 2020, it said. Tokyo-based Mitsubish Heavy, Japan's largest heavy machinery maker, is scheduled to apply to the NRC its formal application for the reactor's design certification by the end of this year. Mitsubishi estimates that "a few dozen" nuclear plants will be built in the U.S. by around 2030. Richard F. Orthen Senior Project Manager Civil & Environmental Consultants, Inc. Export, PA www.cecinc.com From joel.baumbaugh at navy.mil Wed Mar 14 10:07:50 2007 From: joel.baumbaugh at navy.mil (Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:07:50 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Don't forget, its "Pi" day... Message-ID: <7DB6DF83D2CD9140ADA0622B1A05BF2F048EA95A@nawespscez02> RADSAFERS, I know its not Friday afternoon, but... its "Pi" day... I can remember 11 digits w/out looking it up on google, but just in case you wanted to know... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi ...Joel Baumbaugh (joel.baumbaugh at navy.mil) SSC-SD... From hflong at pacbell.net Wed Mar 14 14:08:55 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Societal Cost vs Patient Power for Pain Relief withRadon Spa . In-Reply-To: <000001c765a5$9fbad7e0$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <20070314190856.78113.qmail@web83510.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Therapeutic radiation exposure (as in the USA Health Mine, Dutch spa, etc), when by choice, does have greater placebo effect than when ordered, I believe. Franz is correct that if the physiotherapy or other confounders were different, scientific study would require equalization. Heat and movement are famously effective, in relieving the pain and immobility of rheumatic joint inflammation, as he describes. While studying radiation hormesis, I am convinced so far of its value that I dream up ideas to utilize sources like used power plant rods aged and diluted in house foundations, to improve the public health, when the evidence becomes indisputable. But even then, I believe in applying ALARA for those who do not choose that treatment, as with any other in a relatively free society. Howard Long Franz Sch?nhofer wrote: Dear Howard, You know, that I am not a fan of your theories..... On the other side you never have been deeply offended, when I sent something that might have been regarded harsh as a reply to your messages. Thank you! Other RADSAFERs do not exercise such a patience, but are very eager to accuse one of being anti-US and reminding that somebody (A.H.) was borne in Austria (no excuse) etc. Now to your mail: I am not at all experienced in this kind of treatment. Since the Boeckstein tunnel, the radium (radon) water cures, and all of the Bad Gastein and Hof Gastein area is well known - obviously worldwide - as a spa and in winter additionally as a famous skiing resort (where obviously sick people will not ski down at the steep slopes....) are a very important part in the economy of this region. I have never been there, but I would like to draw your attention to the fact, that patients going there might be treated by so-called radon baths (using water with enhanced radon concentration), some are even drinking water with enhanced radon and Ra-226 concentrations. I have never been interested in this part of medical science, so I cannot give any exact numbers. What I experienced about ten or fifteen years ago, when I had terrible problems with my knees, was that physico-therapeutical measures not only improved my problems, but simply let them disappear without any radon. Regarding Bad Gastein I know from good friends and even my own mother, that all those therapeutical measures mentioned include "radon therapy" and are applied simultaneously. I do not know, how to distinguish the different effects. I do not know of any "double blind" tests, but probably these have been avoided in order to claim the health effects of "radon therapy". I am open to any arguments proving the contrary. Since my mailings are monitored obviously on request by some US-American hardliners, one of which did not even bother to "accuse" me (!!!) that Adolf Hitler was born in Austria you might face some delay in reaching this message to RADSAFE. With my best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA From blc+ at pitt.edu Thu Mar 15 12:57:12 2007 From: blc+ at pitt.edu (Bernard L. Cohen) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:57:12 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus Message-ID: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> With so much talk and discussion of what is the scientific consensus on global warming, it would be interesting to discuss the scientific consensus on whether nuclear power is much less harmful to human health than burning fossil fuels to generate electricity. I am sure there would be a much stronger scientific consensus on the nuclear power issue, but the media and the public assume the contrary.. How could we document the scientific consensus on nuclear power? We could compile endorsements from scientific societies -- does anyone have such a compilation? We could take a poll of "knowledgeable scientists" -- how best to define that group? Would University employed members of Health Physics Society be credible? Is there some other Society with more credibility whose members could be polled? Would the National Academy of Engineering be appropriate? I would like to poll energy specialists on University faculties -- is there a clean way to define these? If people would make suggestions on these matters, I would be happy to carry out the poll, or be a member of a group that does this or oversees it. Better yet, could we get some media people, or well recognized pollsters, involved? If a good program could be devised, I believe I could find the money to finance it. Since the world has discovered the meaning of "scientific consensus", maybe we could take advantage of it. Your suggestions would be most helpful. -- ?????? From ward.brunkow at wipp.ws Thu Mar 15 13:26:35 2007 From: ward.brunkow at wipp.ws (Brunkow, Ward) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:26:35 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus In-Reply-To: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> References: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> Message-ID: <9DDE7474CFC2D748A8A6AB732311741A017CB831@field.wipp.carlsbad.nm.us> Bernard, You bring up some very good issues. As a consultant with 20 years of Nuclear Power experience working for (11) U.S. Utilities before going to DOE arena, I always knew that nuclear energy was the answer just like our dear former President and Supreme Commander Ike Eisenhower did, but felt like a Vietnam Vet coming home from the war the way people reacted to our industry and the treatment I received at times from the public, especially in the early days. We once had a babysitter in California who refused to keep my son when she found out I worked at San Onofre because she thought he probably had radiation in him. My point is that we are decades behind yet in this country educating people in this field. France as an example is not and it remains a mystery to me why our politicians and leaders won't look at the energy dependence success of a countries like France or Japan...and take a hint. In addition, Hollywood will give Al Gore (ALGOR) an oscar for his phony work on global warming, and in his case of course you have people following someone who has no expertise whatsoever in a highly technical field. He did invent the internet though and we must remember and appreciate that..... Regarding the last part of your question, I have been a member of ANS for 25 years. Belonging to other professional organizations in my career to include military officer organizations, I find ANS to be one of the most professional societies I've had the pleasure of being affiliated with. They have impressive membership rolls also of scientists and engineers. They just need to be larger yet, and have larger funding and would help to promote this agenda. You will notice also that most of their agenda these days is the nuclear power generator industry. In my lifetime in this country I have found most of the time that Americans are much like cattle trying to stay out front of a storm. They won't react until it gets pretty bleak...and in some cases will stand there and get struck by lightning. I am afraid it will probably stay that way for awhile. Meanwhile, our energy dependence could be dramatically impacted and interrupted at any time, any hour. We could wake up most any morning and find our way of life totally upside down. Anything I can do to head this off, I will always help. For now, I will continue to write my politicians and promote clean, safe nuclear energy. W. G. (Ward) Brunkow U.S. DOE WIPP Site - Radiological Engineering Washington TRU Solutions - Carlsbad, NM 88220 ward.brunkow at wipp.ws / MS-452/06, PO Bx 2078 505-234-8018 Off/ 6062 Fx/ 703-929-1280 Cell -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Bernard L. Cohen Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:57 AM To: RadiatSafety; ANS listserv (E-mail) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus With so much talk and discussion of what is the scientific consensus on global warming, it would be interesting to discuss the scientific consensus on whether nuclear power is much less harmful to human health than burning fossil fuels to generate electricity. I am sure there would be a much stronger scientific consensus on the nuclear power issue, but the media and the public assume the contrary.. How could we document the scientific consensus on nuclear power? We could compile endorsements from scientific societies -- does anyone have such a compilation? We could take a poll of "knowledgeable scientists" -- how best to define that group? Would University employed members of Health Physics Society be credible? Is there some other Society with more credibility whose members could be polled? Would the National Academy of Engineering be appropriate? I would like to poll energy specialists on University faculties -- is there a clean way to define these? If people would make suggestions on these matters, I would be happy to carry out the poll, or be a member of a group that does this or oversees it. Better yet, could we get some media people, or well recognized pollsters, involved? If a good program could be devised, I believe I could find the money to finance it. Since the world has discovered the meaning of "scientific consensus", maybe we could take advantage of it. Your suggestions would be most helpful. -- ?????? _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From ograabe at ucdavis.edu Thu Mar 15 15:32:36 2007 From: ograabe at ucdavis.edu (Otto G. Raabe) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:32:36 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus In-Reply-To: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> References: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> Message-ID: <200703151932.l2FJWnKJ013232@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> At 09:57 AM 3/15/2007, Bernard L. Cohen wrote: >How could we document the scientific consensus on nuclear power? We >could compile endorsements from scientific societies -- does anyone >have such a compilation? We could take a poll of "knowledgeable scientists" *********************************************** March 15, 2007 I think the term "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron. If there must be a vote, there must not be definitive scientific information, so there is no basis for being certain. Although I cannot speak for the Health Physics Society, as a Past President I can guess about the Society's position. Unfortunately, the issue of nuclear power is mostly a political rather than a scientific issue. The safety of nuclear power plants and methods for the safe disposal of radioactive waste are well established but the person on the street (or in Congress or at the Sierra Club) will always ask, "But what are we going to do with the waste?" and "What about Chenobyl?". The Society will avoid taking a public position on the development of nuclear power because that might compromise the Society's image as an impartial health and safety organization and result in loss of credibility. On the other hand, the Society does take positions that relate to specific radiation safety issues. Otto ********************************************** Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP Center for Health & the Environment University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 *********************************************** From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Thu Mar 15 16:02:08 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <51580.55303.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Jim, Beyond cells, is there any proof to your statement regarding K-40? A citation or two would be nice. --- "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" wrote: > Amen John, > > Not only would you die without potassium, it is > fairly well homeostatically controlled. > > We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, > and shielding from external radiation, cells and > organisms cease to function. > > Regards, Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R > Johnson > Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM > To: Jeff Terry; radsafe > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida > pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > > Jerry et al > > K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole > body counting, and I used > it to insure may counter was working properly. If > the peack at 1.46 MeV was > not present, the counter was assumed to be not > working correctly. > > John > *************** > John R Johnson > CEO, IDIAS, Inc. > Vancouver, B. C. > Canada > (604) 222-9840 > idias at interchange.ubc.ca > > > . > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Terry" > To: "radsafe" > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida > pawnshop's > radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > > > > Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class > that I taught a few > > years ago. > > > > We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate > the potassium. Did the > > store clerk every give us a dirty look when we > were checking out. I think > > that she thought we were a bit disjointed. > > > > Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 > kg of bananas so about > > 24 mg was K-40. > > > > We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low > efficiency but could > > observe a peak. > > > > The students really liked that experiment. You > need to be careful with > > those "hot" bananas. > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) > wrote: > > > >> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got > buried around my office; > >> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" > autonite crystals, about > >> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life > threatening" radium > >> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" > salt substitute. When I > >> go out to do training, and take along my props, > I'm a walking nuclear > >> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for > my lunch. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > >> Behalf Of John Jacobus > >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM > >> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida > pawnshop's radioactive > >> surprise("Yellow cake") > >> > >> > >> > http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- > uranium12mar12,1 > >> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section > >> > >> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise > >> > >> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is > discovered among rocks from an > >> estate sale. > >> > >> By Stephen Hudak > >> Orlando Sentinel > >> > >> March 12, 2007 > >> > >> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, > collectibles dealer and > >> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a > buried gem among an estate's > >> junk and tchotchkes. > >> > >> His latest find was so alarming he called > firefighters. > >> > >> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this > box of rocks from an > >> estate sale," Cafaro said. > >> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. > Topaz. > >> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's > that last one? Uranium? > >> I think that's illegal.' " > >> > >> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last > week with about three > >> dozen emergency workers, including > Geiger-counter-waving members of a > >> hazardous materials team and the Marion County > Sheriff's Office domestic > >> security task force. > >> > >> They focused on a container the size of a soup > can. > >> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container > protected a vial that > >> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a > processed mineral that, in > >> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for > nuclear reactors or > >> enriched for weapons. > >> > >> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to > invade Iraq, in part, > >> on a now-discredited intelligence report that > claimed former Iraqi > >> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of > yellowcake, presumably > >> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. > >> > >> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible > this stuff was," Cafaro > >> said. > >> > >> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate > sale in Miami about 10 > >> years ago, was turned over to the Florida > Department of Health for > >> disposal. > >> > >> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far > from being a > >> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, > chairman of the physics > >> department at the University of Central Florida. > She said it did not > >> pose a serious threat in small quantities. > >> > >> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman > said. > >> "It has to be processed to be converted into > something dangerous." > >> > >> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida > Department of Law > >> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake > were reported to the > >> agency "on a regular basis" and were not > considered especially > >> dangerous. > >> > >> > >> +++++++++++++++++++ > >> "We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or > >> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the > world's population; that > >> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 > percent of mankind; that we > === message truncated === +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From maurysis at peoplepc.com Thu Mar 15 18:05:53 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 17:05:53 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus In-Reply-To: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> References: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> Message-ID: <45F9D151.20606@peoplepc.com> Bernie, from a long retired scientist, admirer of your work, and admirer of Radsafe, I'm really an outsider to HP. First reaction, however, to your post was, 'what a great idea'! Even did a search on professional organizations thinking that if most would agree to a position statement, that would be a great start. As the thought train chugged down the tracks it progressed along the same lines as Otto and Ward. Regrettably, they have summarized reality very well. It remains true that public policy is a result of politics, not of science. Correctly said: "Demagoguery beats data in the making of public policy". Probably our only hopeful course favoring NP is to maintain public pressure (letters, calls, and votes) on congressional and other governmental bodies. The outcome is not assured; Ward has described these very well. And you know well EPA's continued promotion of the dire dangers of radon! But the crucial need is to sustain hope and the concept of try and try harder. As an Army parachutist in a past life, I learned the true meaning of: the concept: "try"! We will not lose the NP issue until and unless we agree that we have been done in .... Sincerely, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) PS; note that a simple phone call to a congressman's local office (not even a toll call to Wash.DC) probably is more influential than a single dinky vote every two years! ______________ "We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex -- but Congress can." ======================== Bernard L. Cohen wrote: > With so much talk and discussion of what is the scientific > consensus on global warming, it would be interesting to discuss the > scientific consensus on whether nuclear power is much less harmful to > human health than burning fossil fuels to generate electricity. I am > sure there would be a much stronger scientific consensus on the > nuclear power issue, but the media and the public assume the contrary.. > How could we document the scientific consensus on nuclear power? We > could compile endorsements from scientific societies -- does anyone > have such a compilation? We could take a poll of "knowledgeable > scientists" -- how best to define that group? Would University > employed members of Health Physics Society be credible? Is there some > other Society with more credibility whose members could be polled? > Would the National Academy of Engineering be appropriate? I would like > to poll energy specialists on University faculties -- is there a clean > way to define these? > If people would make suggestions on these matters, I would be happy > to carry out the poll, or be a member of a group that does this or > oversees it. Better yet, could we get some media people, or well > recognized pollsters, involved? If a good program could be devised, I > believe I could find the money to finance it. > Since the world has discovered the meaning of "scientific > consensus", maybe we could take advantage of it. Your suggestions > would be most helpful. From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Thu Mar 15 19:26:45 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 17:26:45 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <51580.55303.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> References: <51580.55303.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C6C89A78A164D9C9427C4B98CC236F5@JohnPC> John It has nothing to do with K-40. We all need potassium to live, as I pointed out recently on Radsafe. John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jacobus" To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" ; "John R Johnson" ; "Jeff Terry" ; "radsafe" Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:02 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > Jim, > Beyond cells, is there any proof to your statement > regarding K-40? A citation or two would be nice. > > --- "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > wrote: > >> Amen John, >> >> Not only would you die without potassium, it is >> fairly well homeostatically controlled. >> >> We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, >> and shielding from external radiation, cells and >> organisms cease to function. >> >> Regards, Jim >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R >> Johnson >> Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM >> To: Jeff Terry; radsafe >> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida >> pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") >> >> Jerry et al >> >> K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole >> body counting, and I used >> it to insure may counter was working properly. If >> the peack at 1.46 MeV was >> not present, the counter was assumed to be not >> working correctly. >> >> John >> *************** >> John R Johnson >> CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >> Vancouver, B. C. >> Canada >> (604) 222-9840 >> idias at interchange.ubc.ca >> >> >> . >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jeff Terry" >> To: "radsafe" >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida >> pawnshop's >> radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> > Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class >> that I taught a few >> > years ago. >> > >> > We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate >> the potassium. Did the >> > store clerk every give us a dirty look when we >> were checking out. I think >> > that she thought we were a bit disjointed. >> > >> > Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 >> kg of bananas so about >> > 24 mg was K-40. >> > >> > We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low >> efficiency but could >> > observe a peak. >> > >> > The students really liked that experiment. You >> need to be careful with >> > those "hot" bananas. >> > >> > Jeff >> > >> > >> > >> > On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) >> wrote: >> > >> >> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got >> buried around my office; >> >> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" >> autonite crystals, about >> >> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life >> threatening" radium >> >> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" >> salt substitute. When I >> >> go out to do training, and take along my props, >> I'm a walking nuclear >> >> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for >> my lunch. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl >> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >> >> Behalf Of John Jacobus >> >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM >> >> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com >> >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida >> pawnshop's radioactive >> >> surprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- >> uranium12mar12,1 >> >> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section >> >> >> >> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise >> >> >> >> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is >> discovered among rocks from an >> >> estate sale. >> >> >> >> By Stephen Hudak >> >> Orlando Sentinel >> >> >> >> March 12, 2007 >> >> >> >> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, >> collectibles dealer and >> >> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a >> buried gem among an estate's >> >> junk and tchotchkes. >> >> >> >> His latest find was so alarming he called >> firefighters. >> >> >> >> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this >> box of rocks from an >> >> estate sale," Cafaro said. >> >> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. >> Topaz. >> >> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's >> that last one? Uranium? >> >> I think that's illegal.' " >> >> >> >> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last >> week with about three >> >> dozen emergency workers, including >> Geiger-counter-waving members of a >> >> hazardous materials team and the Marion County >> Sheriff's Office domestic >> >> security task force. >> >> >> >> They focused on a container the size of a soup >> can. >> >> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container >> protected a vial that >> >> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a >> processed mineral that, in >> >> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for >> nuclear reactors or >> >> enriched for weapons. >> >> >> >> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to >> invade Iraq, in part, >> >> on a now-discredited intelligence report that >> claimed former Iraqi >> >> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of >> yellowcake, presumably >> >> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. >> >> >> >> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible >> this stuff was," Cafaro >> >> said. >> >> >> >> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate >> sale in Miami about 10 >> >> years ago, was turned over to the Florida >> Department of Health for >> >> disposal. >> >> >> >> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far >> from being a >> >> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, >> chairman of the physics >> >> department at the University of Central Florida. >> She said it did not >> >> pose a serious threat in small quantities. >> >> >> >> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman >> said. >> >> "It has to be processed to be converted into >> something dangerous." >> >> >> >> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida >> Department of Law >> >> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake >> were reported to the >> >> agency "on a regular basis" and were not >> considered especially >> >> dangerous. >> >> >> >> >> >> +++++++++++++++++++ >> >> "We must face the fact that the United States is >> neither omnipotent or >> >> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the >> world's population; that >> >> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 >> percent of mankind; that we >> > === message truncated === > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or > omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we > cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we > cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there > cannot be an American solution to every world problem." > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > It's here! Your new message! > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From rhelbig at california.com Fri Mar 16 02:40:35 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 23:40:35 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fw: [DU-WATCH] Hamid Bahmani interview Message-ID: <014f01c7679e$85b258a0$01425142@roger1> the source is Press TV in Iran PRESS TV 25, East 2nd St., Farhang Blvd., Saadat Abad, 19977-66411 Tehran, I.R Iran Phone: +98 21 23011130 Fax: +98 21 23011139 Once you get past the interesting beginning they really get into anti-DU mode But Mr. Bahmani is not reporting any more. He is one of the million victims of depleted uranium bombs dropped on Iraqi soil by allied forces. He has lost sight in both eyes and recently his health deteriorated further, targeting his lungs, making breathing a strenuous job for him. According to Deborah Hastings, AP National Writer, an estimated 286 tons of depleted uranium munitions were fired by the U.S. in Iraq and Kuwait in 1991. Another 130 tons were dropped while toppling Saddam Hussein. And still fifteen years after it was first used in Iraq, there is only one U.S. government study monitoring veterans exposed to depleted uranium. Despite all the hardship he endures, Hamid Bahmani welcomed Press TV into his home, and with the help of his loving and caring wife gave an account of his experiences in war-torn Iraq. TG: What made you change from filming sports to recording a war? HB: I had been a cameraman during wars in Afghanistan and Bosnia. In my profession I was known as "portable," because of my strong arms. I could carry a camera weighing 20 kilograms attached to 250 meters of cable for several hours, without ever getting tired. I had the physical ability then, I was fit and I knew the region. I was familiar with the customs and traditions and I had some knowledge of the language. I guess these were the reasons I was chosen to go to Iraq as part of the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB) press team. TG: Are journalists aware of dangers they face in wars? HB: Journalists are brave people. Every journalist loves his work. Those who write love their pen and paper; a photographer loves his camera. TG: What makes cameramen reporting a war different from their colleagues? HB: A cameraman who goes to report a war knows he has to be ready to take care of his camera as if it were his own child. He has to know his camera well and be able to repair it when needed. In a war zone, there is no one to help you with that. TG: What do you love about your job? HB: I love the feeling of belonging to people, not just my own countrymen but I belong to the entire world. Anyone working in broadcast journalism belongs to the entire world. Networks are mostly global now. The job we have chosen has dangerous routes. There is the possibility of injury or death. I want to let my films play and allow people to make judgments for themselves. I hope the world would more strongly condemn wars, in particular the use of chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction. TG: What are some of your most famous images from the Iraq war? HB: One showed American soldiers kicking and opening a door to a house and a frightened Iraqi woman inside rushing to protect her child. In another one American troops were beating a hand-cuffed man in the back with their guns. There are many more. TG: Where were you when you were hit by the bombing? HB: I was in Basra. The house I was in was destroyed and everyone else in it got killed. After the bombing my face became very hot. I was taken to a hospital. My sight and my hearing were affected but the extent of the damage was not immediately apparent. My medical reports are my evidence. TG: What bombs were used in that region? HB: They were American Dirty Bombs, which contained depleted uranium. The Pentagon itself announced that they had used tons of such bombs there. International environmental agencies confirmed the use. Children as well as adults have been the victims of these weapons. Even the American and British troops themselves were affected, but they were not aware of the harm they had received until later. They did not realize that they were also being experimented on. These bombs affect all organs and cause injuries to the eyes and lungs. They slowly hinder the function of other organs and severely damage the body. Uranium passes through the body within 3 to 5 days, but its effects on soil and air will last thousands of years. The region is still contaminated. These bombs wage a never-ending war. TG: Are you receiving any compensation? Who pays for your treatment? HB: I have received a loan from IRIB and the monthly installments are deducted from my salary. Since December 2006 I have been able to use IRIB's insurance scheme. Before that I paid all my own expenses. TG: Have you asked for support from any organization? HB: No, because I do not seek financial support. I have been able to cover my expenses even before the help I received from IRIB. But I expected the members of Majlis (Iranian parliament), especially the MP from my native Mazandaran, to follow up my story off camera. I was injured while reporting for my people. I just wonder why people who have been dedicated to their work and their people are so easily forgotten. TG: If you were told beforehand that you would suffer such injuries, would you still have gone to Iraq? HB: Yes. I assure you that even if I only had 0.5% sight in even one eye today I would still go again, to film and to report. I promise you. TG: Have you ever considered another career? HB: No, Never. I love this job. I have not bid farewell to my camera, my career and I never will. TG/BG E-mail this to a friend Printable version Count of view : 123 http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=2612?ionid=3510302 ? Press TV 2007. All rights reserved. dominouglias wrote: To: du-watch at yahoogroups.com From: "dominouglias" Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:02:28 -0000 Subject: [DU-WATCH] Hamid Bahmani interview Zoom on Hamid Bahmani, life has no playbacks Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:54:25 Touria Ghaffari Press TV In spring 2007 Iranian journalism will get the spotlight with Jahangir Razmi finally claiming his Pulitzer Prize for a photo he took 28 years ago. The Pulitzer which was awarded to "an unnamed photographer of United Press International" back in 1979 marks the only time the Prize has been awarded to an anonymous recipient. Iranian journalists, like many others from the world over, have had their fair share of brutal fate. Many died while reporting in the 8 year Iraq-imposed war in the 1980s, others while on assignments for foreign media. In 1990 Farzad Bazoft, 31, an Iranian-born freelance journalist working for the London based newspaper, The Observer, was executed by hanging in Iraq. He was charged for spying after a one-day trial behind closed doors which lacked any conclusive evidence of his guilt. Bazoft was a reporter doing a story, investigating a mysterious explosion at Al Iskandaria military complex, linked to secret missile developments and storage of chemical weapons Saddam received from the West to use against his own people and Iranian soldiers defending their homeland. The British government, fearing the efforts would tarnish diplomatic relations, did not pressure Saddam Hussein hard enough, allowing the young journalist to be sent to the gallows. According to Guardian Unlimited, the execution of Farzad Bazoft provides one more illustration of the failure of the British government's appeasement policy. In 2003, Kaveh Golestan, well known Iranian photographer and filmmaker working for the BBC in northern Iraq, was killed instantly after stepping on a landmine. The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) reported that in 2006, fifty-five journalists were killed worldwide, an increase over the 47 in the previous year. The New York-based non-partisan international organization stated that Iraq was the deadliest place for journalists with 32 killings, followed by Afghanistan and the Philippines, with three deaths each. Hamid Bahmani, 43, is an Iranian cameraman who was in Iraq at the time coalition forces invaded the country in 2003. His images for Al Alam, filmed while riding on an American tank, were the first live accounts of the Iraq war, relayed by CNN and other networks, giving the then newly established Arabic language channel a reputation for daring reports and a prominent place among its rivals. But Mr. Bahmani is not reporting any more. He is one of the million victims of depleted uranium bombs dropped on Iraqi soil by allied forces. He has lost sight in both eyes and recently his health deteriorated further, targeting his lungs, making breathing a strenuous job for him. According to Deborah Hastings, AP National Writer, an estimated 286 tons of depleted uranium munitions were fired by the U.S. in Iraq and Kuwait in 1991. Another 130 tons were dropped while toppling Saddam Hussein. And still fifteen years after it was first used in Iraq, there is only one U.S. government study monitoring veterans exposed to depleted uranium. Despite all the hardship he endures, Hamid Bahmani welcomed Press TV into his home, and with the help of his loving and caring wife gave an account of his experiences in war-torn Iraq. TG: What made you change from filming sports to recording a war? HB: I had been a cameraman during wars in Afghanistan and Bosnia. In my profession I was known as "portable," because of my strong arms. I could carry a camera weighing 20 kilograms attached to 250 meters of cable for several hours, without ever getting tired. I had the physical ability then, I was fit and I knew the region. I was familiar with the customs and traditions and I had some knowledge of the language. I guess these were the reasons I was chosen to go to Iraq as part of the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB) press team. TG: Are journalists aware of dangers they face in wars? HB: Journalists are brave people. Every journalist loves his work. Those who write love their pen and paper; a photographer loves his camera. TG: What makes cameramen reporting a war different from their colleagues? HB: A cameraman who goes to report a war knows he has to be ready to take care of his camera as if it were his own child. He has to know his camera well and be able to repair it when needed. In a war zone, there is no one to help you with that. TG: What do you love about your job? HB: I love the feeling of belonging to people, not just my own countrymen but I belong to the entire world. Anyone working in broadcast journalism belongs to the entire world. Networks are mostly global now. The job we have chosen has dangerous routes. There is the possibility of injury or death. I want to let my films play and allow people to make judgments for themselves. I hope the world would more strongly condemn wars, in particular the use of chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction. TG: What are some of your most famous images from the Iraq war? HB: One showed American soldiers kicking and opening a door to a house and a frightened Iraqi woman inside rushing to protect her child. In another one American troops were beating a hand-cuffed man in the back with their guns. There are many more. TG: Where were you when you were hit by the bombing? HB: I was in Basra. The house I was in was destroyed and everyone else in it got killed. After the bombing my face became very hot. I was taken to a hospital. My sight and my hearing were affected but the extent of the damage was not immediately apparent. My medical reports are my evidence. TG: What bombs were used in that region? HB: They were American Dirty Bombs, which contained depleted uranium. The Pentagon itself announced that they had used tons of such bombs there. International environmental agencies confirmed the use. Children as well as adults have been the victims of these weapons. Even the American and British troops themselves were affected, but they were not aware of the harm they had received until later. They did not realize that they were also being experimented on. These bombs affect all organs and cause injuries to the eyes and lungs. They slowly hinder the function of other organs and severely damage the body. Uranium passes through the body within 3 to 5 days, but its effects on soil and air will last thousands of years. The region is still contaminated. These bombs wage a never-ending war. TG: Are you receiving any compensation? Who pays for your treatment? HB: I have received a loan from IRIB and the monthly installments are deducted from my salary. Since December 2006 I have been able to use IRIB's insurance scheme. Before that I paid all my own expenses. TG: Have you asked for support from any organization? HB: No, because I do not seek financial support. I have been able to cover my expenses even before the help I received from IRIB. But I expected the members of Majlis (Iranian parliament), especially the MP from my native Mazandaran, to follow up my story off camera. I was injured while reporting for my people. I just wonder why people who have been dedicated to their work and their people are so easily forgotten. TG: If you were told beforehand that you would suffer such injuries, would you still have gone to Iraq? HB: Yes. I assure you that even if I only had 0.5% sight in even one eye today I would still go again, to film and to report. I promise you. TG: Have you ever considered another career? HB: No, Never. I love this job. I have not bid farewell to my camera, my career and I never will. TG/BG E-mail this to a friend Printable version Count of view : 123 http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=2612?ionid=3510302 ? Press TV 2007. All rights reserved. From blc+ at pitt.edu Fri Mar 16 09:27:29 2007 From: blc+ at pitt.edu (Bernard L. Cohen) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 09:27:29 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus In-Reply-To: <200703151932.l2FJWnKJ013232@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> References: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> <200703151932.l2FJWnKJ013232@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Message-ID: <45FAA951.8090500@pitt.edu> Otto G. Raabe wrote: > > March 15, 2007 > > I think the term "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron. If there must > be a vote, there must not be definitive scientific information, so > there is no basis for being certain. ---Whether or not "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron, the global warming people have sold it to the media and to the public as though it is the truth. I am suggesting that we take advantage of their successful "sell". If the media and thr public now believe that the scientific consensus is close to "the truth", that could be a powerful tool for us. From LNMolino at aol.com Fri Mar 16 09:42:03 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:42:03 EDT Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus Message-ID: In a message dated 3/16/2007 9:01:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time, blc+ at pitt.edu writes: ---Whether or not "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron, the global warming people have sold it to the media and to the public as though it is the truth. I am suggesting that we take advantage of their successful "sell". If the media and thr public now believe that the scientific consensus is close to "the truth", that could be a powerful tool for us. Yes true BUT is this different in some moral way than what the anti nuke folks do with the "public perception of radiation? Science should take the road at all times yes? I used to be of the mind set that was in total agreement of what you said but I've come to decide that I as an individual won't stoop to the level of my enemy. My overall take on "global warming" is that of course the growth of man has an impact on the planet it is after all an ecosystem hence all things in that system affects the operations of that system, we DO and have sent a lot of bad things out into the environment and there at some point has got to be a balancing act by Mother Nature and she can for want of a better term be one hell of a bitch. I however do not buy that in 20 years and the like all life will end and so fourth as some ultra extreme eco types will purport. I agree that they sold it to the public at large for the most part and if you look at advertising by say the big oil guys you see they see that they have bought in to it as well. I however won't exploit those "fears" for the purpose of nuclear energy. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Fri Mar 16 10:25:17 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:25:17 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08BC6B@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> What you say is true, but it doesn't really address Bernie's proposal. I don't see that he is proposing to follow the use of 'global warming fear tactics' here. He seems to be just proposing to document the concurrence of those (of us) who "support nuclear power" to produce a large, broad, "scientific consensus." OTOH, the 17,000 signatures of "scientists" (and others) who challenged global warming has not rejected the premise of "scientific consensus." Unfortunately, the "Sci Con" that has developed is more a product of the premise that the formal IPCC and other funded (by governments) scientists and their publications support the premise that anthropogenic carbon is causing global warming. There is no open forum. There is no such accumulation of orchestrated formal review processes to push media response to document and support nuclear power. Each professional society (beyond ANS and HPS, e.g., ASME, IEEE, APS, ACS, etc.) does, or should, produce support documents. Those position statements should be collected, with documents of the number of members. This could also include the unions and other interests, like NAM. (We could even try to get positive statements from some oil, gas and coal interests.) Of course, we could start this by starting with those we know are already on the record! Regards, Jim >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl >[mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of LNMolino at aol.com >Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:42 AM >To: radsafe at radlab.nl >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus > > > >In a message dated 3/16/2007 9:01:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time, >blc+ at pitt.edu writes: > >---Whether or not "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron, the >global warming >people have sold it to the media and to the public as though >it is the truth. >I am suggesting that we take advantage of their successful >"sell". If the >media and thr public now believe that the scientific consensus >is close to "the >truth", that could be a powerful tool for us. > > >Yes true BUT is this different in some moral way than what the >anti nuke >folks do with the "public perception of radiation? > >Science should take the road at all times yes? > >I used to be of the mind set that was in total agreement of >what you said >but I've come to decide that I as an individual won't stoop to >the level of my >enemy. > >My overall take on "global warming" is that of course the >growth of man has >an impact on the planet it is after all an ecosystem hence all >things in that >system affects the operations of that system, we DO and have >sent a lot of >bad things out into the environment and there at some point >has got to be a >balancing act by Mother Nature and she can for want of a >better term be one hell > of a bitch. I however do not buy that in 20 years and the >like all life will >end and so fourth as some ultra extreme eco types will >purport. I agree that >they sold it to the public at large for the most part and if >you look at >advertising by say the big oil guys you see they see that >they have bought in to >it as well. I however won't exploit those "fears" for the >purpose of nuclear >energy. > >Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET >FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI >Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire >Protection Consultant >LNMolino at aol.com > >979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) >979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) >979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) > >"A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" > >"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds >discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer >(1884 - 1962) > >The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the >author and the >author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or >organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or >associated with unless I >specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is >intended only for its >stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential >materials >retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the >public domain by the >original author. > > > >************************************** AOL now offers free >email to everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and >understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other >settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > From blc+ at pitt.edu Fri Mar 16 12:51:42 2007 From: blc+ at pitt.edu (Bernard L. Cohen) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:51:42 -0500 Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45FAD92E.1030902@pitt.edu> RuthWeiner at aol.com wrote: > . Forcing a state like New Mexico to get a fraction of electricity > from "renewables" (including biomass which produces more CO2 per BTU, > not less, than coal) does nothing except make electricity more > expensive. And so on. > ---Burning biomass does not add any net CO2 to the Earth's atmosphere, because the CO2 it emits was originally removed from the atmosphere in growing the biomass. From hflong at pacbell.net Fri Mar 16 18:30:50 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Renewables In-Reply-To: <45FAD92E.1030902@pitt.edu> Message-ID: <20070316233050.53726.qmail@web83509.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> If coal is fossil fuel it is biomass, formed from plants that took up CO2 from the atmosphere. Burning coal (or corn ethanol or sugarcane or waste paper) does not then add to atmospheric CO2 in the long run. Correct? However, "Deep in the earth, pressure is forming hydrocarbons faster than we can use them, from limestone - abiogenic oil." (Penner -- DDP meeting '07) Anyone skeptical of global warming - carbon tax "certainty" and "consensus"? Howard Long "Bernard L. Cohen" wrote: RuthWeiner at aol.com wrote: > . Forcing a state like New Mexico to get a fraction of electricity > from "renewables" (including biomass which produces more CO2 per BTU, > not less, than coal) does nothing except make electricity more > expensive. And so on. > ---Burning biomass does not add any net CO2 to the Earth's atmosphere, because the CO2 it emits was originally removed from the atmosphere in growing the biomass. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From DonJordan at ramservicesinc.com Fri Mar 16 19:35:25 2007 From: DonJordan at ramservicesinc.com (Don Jordan) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:35:25 -0600 Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus References: <45FAD92E.1030902@pitt.edu> Message-ID: <001a01c7682c$27daaa00$4501a8c0@RAMSERVICE1> This may not be strictly true because: (a) If the biomass is not replaced, then there is a net increase in the CO2 and also a decrease in the sink (i.e., rain forest). (b) the chemical and biological kinetics of the new growth may lag behind the production rate for a while. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernard L. Cohen" To: Cc: ; ; Sent: 16 March, 2007 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus > > > RuthWeiner at aol.com wrote: > > > . Forcing a state like New Mexico to get a fraction of electricity > > from "renewables" (including biomass which produces more CO2 per BTU, > > not less, than coal) does nothing except make electricity more > > expensive. And so on. > > > > ---Burning biomass does not add any net CO2 to the Earth's > atmosphere, because the CO2 it emits was originally removed from the > atmosphere in growing the biomass. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Fri Mar 16 23:28:18 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:28:18 -0400 Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus References: <45FAD92E.1030902@pitt.edu> <001a01c7682c$27daaa00$4501a8c0@RAMSERVICE1> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F29D@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> As you appreciate, there is little effect for a continuous process with lags of a few months or even years. It makes more sense to tuen it around. What the corn sucks up this summer, is being burned/released in a few weeks or months. There's no net carbon on the time scales of interest. Coal OTOH, is introducing CO2 that was "sequestered" (in the current vernacular :-) millions of years ago. We've burned enough coal, oil and gas to have substantially diluted the secular equilibrium (balance between production rate and decay/removal rate) of the C-14 in the atmosphere, releasing the "old" carbon in which the C-14 has been depleted. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Don Jordan Sent: Fri 3/16/2007 8:35 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus This may not be strictly true because: (a) If the biomass is not replaced, then there is a net increase in the CO2 and also a decrease in the sink (i.e., rain forest). (b) the chemical and biological kinetics of the new growth may lag behind the production rate for a while. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernard L. Cohen" To: Cc: ; ; Sent: 16 March, 2007 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus > > > RuthWeiner at aol.com wrote: > > > . Forcing a state like New Mexico to get a fraction of electricity > > from "renewables" (including biomass which produces more CO2 per BTU, > > not less, than coal) does nothing except make electricity more > > expensive. And so on. > > > > ---Burning biomass does not add any net CO2 to the Earth's > atmosphere, because the CO2 it emits was originally removed from the > atmosphere in growing the biomass. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From eic at shaw.ca Sat Mar 17 13:44:52 2007 From: eic at shaw.ca (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 12:44:52 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle References: <45FAD92E.1030902@pitt.edu> <001a01c7682c$27daaa00$4501a8c0@RAMSERVICE1> Message-ID: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Friends, Some of you may be interested in this documentary: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831 . It makes some good points about how funding, publishing, and media attention affect 'scientific consensus'. For the purists on the list, 'nuclear' is mentioned about 37 minutes into the film. As the title suggests, the film is skeptical about global warming. The scientists argue that other factors, such as solar activity, are more important in driving our climate than human CO2 emissions. To me, that is a nice academic question, but it is really fairly irrelevant. I think we all agree that if the sun were to turn off, it would get pretty cold. So what? It is not likely that the sun will be turned off any time soon and even if it was, there is not much I can do about it. The relevant question is: How much warming can be expected as a result of x% increase in CO2 levels? If that increase is something to worry about, then we should worry it and try to do something about it. It doesn't matter if the sun or volcanoes have a bigger effect. The global warming skeptics are saying that the climate models are bad, without offering better models. They are offering nice climate models that examine the effect of sun spots on climate. Unfortunately, these are completely irrelevant to the question of the effect of CO2 on the climate. I think it is established that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. So, it would only make sense that adding CO2 will have some effect on the climate. The question is: In what direction and by how much? I think the global warming skeptics need to come up with their own estimates, before we can have any type of debate. I know there are a bunch of unknowns, that's why we have error bars. If the error bars fall into the region of negligibly trivial changes, then the debate should be about who's model is wrong. If the error bars fall between the regions of no effect and global disaster, then we should be looking at reducing the error bars and, in the meantime, also look at ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Kai From hshaffer3 at verizon.net Fri Mar 16 10:50:30 2007 From: hshaffer3 at verizon.net (Howard Shaffer) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:50:30 -0400 Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus References: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> <200703151932.l2FJWnKJ013232@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> <45FAA951.8090500@pitt.edu> Message-ID: <003501c767e2$d3c32580$2f01a8c0@HCShafferTnkpd> Colleagues: Scientific Consensus is in two parts: What the science (and engineering as applied science) shows, and the INDIVIDUALS Personal JUDGMENT on the risk/cost -benefit, and social/political worth. It appears that Scientists are not taught to make this distinction, and I know Engineers are not (I am an Engineer.) In 2001 I had the privilege of being the ANS's AAAS Congressional Fellow. As a Democrat I sold myself to Republicans and served on the House Committee on Science's Energy Subcommittee. The Committee and Subcommittee were chaired by Republicans. I said "Science and Engineering, when done right, yield the same answer for everyone. It is in the next step, of making VALUE JUDGMENTS that the Parties (and people) differ. I found that in the end all political issues come down to value judgments, which is why they are hard, and controversial. In the debate over nuclear power, which is tied to radiation safety and energy policy and global warming, there are a few scientists whose personal value judgments differ from the majority of scientists. In Radiation Safety, I believe there is no dispute over what the science shows. Profs Goffman and Tamplin make the personal value judgment that the possible effects are not acceptable for society. Prof Cohen and most of us acknowledge that even one alpha emitting particle, or one exposure to sunlight for one minute COULD (theoretically) cause a fatal cancer, BUT we go the next step and evaluate the PROBABILITY of these effects AND compare them to the risk/benefit of alternatives. We then find the risk acceptable for ourselves, our families, and our children. I suggest we poll the Scientific and Technical communities that uses radiation in any form - the medical profession, all the disciplines that use radioactive tracers etc, engineers and operators of nuclear power plants, X-ray technicians, and of course Health Physicists. Present the question in the two parts: What the science shows, and your personal value judgment on the risk/benefit. If we present the results to the public and press this way it may help cleanup the mess. In the Global Warming debate, the results of the science are still incomplete, BUT the POLICY implications are so large that may of the scientists involved have jumped to the personal value judgment and recommended POLICY initiatives. They must admit that the science is still incomplete. Nay Sayers of global warming must admit that they do not want to have the policy decisions made until the science is more complete. The answer to the question of "When do you make a policy decision on incomplete science?" depends on the personal value judgments of the decision makers of the risks of waiting versus the risks of going ahead and being wrong. Senator Lieberman framed the issue this way, during the 2000 Presidential campaign: If there is Global Warming then we want to have policies for: energy efficiency, conservation, alternative energies, and getting off oil, natural gas, and coal. If there is no Global Warming, then what about atmospheric pollution? Then the policies are......the same as for Global Warming. If there is no atmospheric pollution, then what about running out of oil, gas, and coal? Then the policies are ....the same as for Global Warming. If there is no atmospheric pollution then what about National Security and dependence outside energy sources? Then the policies are......the same as for Global Warming. If there is no National Security then what about economic security-balance of payments, national debt, and consumer debt? Then the policies are.....the same as for Global Warming. The question remains of HOW LONG we have and HOW to we do we implement policies while keeping the economy strong and providing for a population that is growing and the impoverished who want and deserve to have better lives. Howard Shaffer PE The attached essay of mine may help. Don't be thrown off by the title. It's what the law students asked for, and they liked it and published it. ---------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bernard L. Cohen" To: "Otto G. Raabe" Cc: "RadiatSafety" ; "ANS listserv (E-mail)" Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:27 AM Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus > > > Otto G. Raabe wrote: > >> >> March 15, 2007 >> >> I think the term "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron. If there must be >> a vote, there must not be definitive scientific information, so there is >> no basis for being certain. > > ---Whether or not "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron, the global > warming people have sold it to the media and to the public as though it is > the truth. I am suggesting that we take advantage of their successful > "sell". If the media and thr public now believe that the scientific > consensus is close to "the truth", that could be a powerful tool for us. > > _______________________________________________ > MbrExchange mailing list > MbrExchange at list.ans.org > From RuthWeiner at aol.com Fri Mar 16 11:25:39 2007 From: RuthWeiner at aol.com (RuthWeiner at aol.com) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:25:39 EDT Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus Message-ID: Professor Hank Jenkins-Smith (Texas A&M) gave a first-rate talk at Sandia a couple of weeks ago (I know Hank quite well and in my opinion he is the only social scientist who does it right when investigating attitudes toward nukes). Hank made several interesting points: 1. His surveys (and he does them right) show that the public estimates of the risks of nuclear power have not changed significantly in the last 15 or so years, but the public assessment of the benefits of nukes is becoming increasingly favorable. The reason seems to be not only global climate change but brownouts, oil and natural gas prices, and similar stresses. People do a sort of intuitive cost benefit analysis and as the benefits (or perception of them) increases, attitudes change. 2. For the hard core enviros. being anti-nuke appears to be a core tenet of a semi-religion, and we are not going to change these folks. I came away with three thoughts: 1. We (including the NRC) are somewhat wasting our time tryng to convince people that the risks are insignificant and spend our time explaining (but not promoting!!) the benefits. 2. The environmental leadership created the enviro religion, with all its "core beliefs" and I believe did it cynically, deliberately, and in full knowledge that it would become the "opiate of the masses." I have little respect for Patrick Moore and Stewart Brand; had they been honest, they would have quit 20 years ago when I did. Instead they spent those decades (!) promoting the religion and now are jumping ship. 3. PLEASE let us not make a religion out of global climate change! Once it is a belief system, there is no way to ask questions any more, and there are still plenty of questions. As you all know, I believe that "nukes are good, coal is bad" is a sure loser. I don't believe the deaths from coal burning any more than I believe the deaths from low-level radiation. Coal plants are a whole lot cleaner than they were 30 years ago, and mine safety has hugely improved (it's still extremely dangerous, but then, so is working with very radioactive material if you aren't careful). Moreover, let's face it, we are going to burn coal, or gasify it, or do solvent extraction and burn the products. So let's manage the environmental effects. Emissions trading doesn't reduce anything, but makes good money for the traders. Forcing a state like New Mexico to get a fraction of electricity from "renewables" (including biomass which produces more CO2 per BTU, not less, than coal) does nothing except make electricity more expensive. And so on. End of rant Ruth Ruth F. Weiner, Ph. D. ruthweiner at aol.com 7336 Lew Wallace NE Albquerque, NM 87109 505-284-8406 (o) 505-856-5011 (h) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From wonuc.secretary at orange.fr Thu Mar 15 18:56:18 2007 From: wonuc.secretary at orange.fr (wonuc) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 00:56:18 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Marie Curie Prize Message-ID: <00d901c7675d$8bb06080$0901a8c0@pc> Dear Colleague, In the context of the "Marie Curie Prize" assignment procedure, I would be grateful should you designate five persons from the international scientific community whose work has significantly advanced our knowledge on the effects of low and very low doses of ionizing radiation on human health and biotopes. You must not have any family or professional links to the persons designated. You will find attached the rules of procedure of the "Marie Curie prize" Please justify your recommendation in a short note (100 words maximum) and indicate the surname, first name(s), electronic address, professional address, and the most recent positions occupied by your candidates for the Marie Curie Prize. The final choice will be made by the Honorary Board of the International Journal of Low Radiation. The Prize will be award during the next 6th LOWRAD International Conference, "The effects of low and very low doses of ionizing radiation on human health and biotopes" 18, 19, 20 October 2007, Budapest, Hungary (www.wonuc.org/lowrad/lowrad2007-01.doc) Many thanks for your support Warm regards Andre Ma?sseu Professor Andr? MA?SSEU IJLR Editor in chief WONUC, President 49, rue Lauriston, 75116 Paris, France tel. +33 (0)6 08 21 32 87 e-mail: a.maisseu at wonuc.org web: http://www.wonuc.org From blainehoward at yahoo.com Sat Mar 17 14:47:35 2007 From: blainehoward at yahoo.com (Blaine Howard) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 12:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Kai, I read your comments about ?The Great Global Warming Swindle ? with interest. I wondered how you missed the whole point of the video. The main points are: FIRST AND FOREMOST, CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. Man made emissions are trivial and CO2 concentrations do not drive global warming. It is not a cause and effect relationship, so x% increase in CO2 will have no effect on global warming. The great oceans are a tremendous reservoir for CO2 which buffers the effect of current emissions, spreading it over hundreds of years. The primary factors for global warming (and cooling) are the SUN and the CLOUDS (water vapor). These are factors over which we have absolutely no control. So to limit the underdeveloped countries to not using the energy sources available to them and asking them to get there electricity from solar and wind generators is ridiculous and cruel to the poor people of those countries. The earth has a tremendous capacity for temperature control since it was designed by the ultimate expert. So we need to back off from trying to control the uncontrollable and develop the energy sources He has made available to us for the benefit of all mankind. Sincerely, Blaine N. Howard From ograabe at ucdavis.edu Sat Mar 17 16:23:37 2007 From: ograabe at ucdavis.edu (Otto G. Raabe) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 13:23:37 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200703172023.l2HKNuKJ000944@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> >March 17, 2007 According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. Otto ********************************************** Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP Center for Health & the Environment University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 *********************************************** From jk5554 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 17 16:08:46 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 14:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070317210846.15085.qmail@web32512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> So.... If the release of huge amounts of CO2 is risk-free and without consequence... Should TXU have stuck with its plan for 8 or 11 coal-fired power plants in Texas?? Did "He" ordain these coal plants and their particulate/CO2 emissions (particulate emissions are a hazard to human health)? Or has "He" endowed us with the capability of learning, science, and the ability to do things a better way? Did TXU make a mistake when it consulted with insurance companies and professional risk managers ...and cancelled most of the coal plants...and instead ordered two 1700MW nuclear reactors? You might wish to update by checking out http://neinuclearnotes.blogspot.com/ or http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/search/label/Texas%20coal Much skepticism about climate change is driven, I believe, by the fact that the anti-nuclear, anti-everything "environmental crowd" has jumped onto the "global warming" bandwagon. As most here know, these folks believe that people should go back to riding bicycles and using the energy eqivalent of one or two lightbulbs. They completely ignore technological solutions to problems. Unfortunately, (I have criticized him numerous times at my blog for this), Al Gore panders to these people. Al Gore should know MUCH better. His father was a big supporter of Oak Ridge. Oak Ridge's late Dr. Alvin Weinberg helped establish the science that led to the Keeling atmospheric CO2 curve. I might like to close with an excellent comment from MIT hurricane scientist Kerry Emanuel, no skeptic of climate change. In the concluding paragraphs of the article linked below, he writes: http://bostonreview.net/BR32.1/emanuel.html "Had it not been for green opposition, the United States today might derive most of its electricity from nuclear power, as does France; thus the environmentalists must accept a large measure of responsibility for today?s most critical environmental problem." === Why is it that insightful pieces like the one authored by Kerry Emanuel receive so little attention at Radsafe. As a community of scientifically-trained people, we should be open to discussions about points like the ones that Dr. Emanuel brings up. I recommend those on this list interested in the climate issue to read Kerry Emanuel's article and closely consider it rather than resort to the siren song of kneejerk "global warming skepticism." We need to give thought and a science-oriented mindset to this climate issue. While there are extremists who are exagerrating the consequences of increased atmospheric CO2, Kai Kaletsch's assessment was thoughtful. I do not believe that pumping large amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere is risk-free. Many on Radsafe are involved in a technology that is key to addressing the climate situation....unless by mistake I somehow wound up on the Coal Combustion Operators' Group List. :-) ~Ruth (for critique of Al Gore, see) http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/search?q=Al+Gore --- Blaine Howard wrote: > Dear Kai, > I read your comments about ?The Great Global > Warming > Swindle ? with interest. I wondered how you missed > the whole point of the video. > The main points are: > FIRST AND FOREMOST, CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL > WARMING. > > Man made emissions are trivial and CO2 > concentrations > do not drive global warming. It is not a cause and > effect relationship, so x% increase in CO2 will have > no effect on global warming. > The great oceans are a tremendous reservoir for CO2 > which buffers the effect of current emissions, > spreading it over hundreds of years. > The primary factors for global warming (and cooling) > are the SUN and the CLOUDS (water vapor). > These are factors over which we have absolutely no > control. So to limit the underdeveloped countries > to > not using the energy sources available to them and > asking them to get there electricity from solar and > wind generators is ridiculous and cruel to the poor > people of those countries. > The earth has a tremendous capacity for temperature > control since it was designed by the ultimate > expert. > So we need to back off from trying to control the > uncontrollable and develop the energy sources He has > made available to us for the benefit of all mankind. > > Sincerely, > Blaine N. Howard > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From eic at shaw.ca Sat Mar 17 16:06:51 2007 From: eic at shaw.ca (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:06:51 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Message-ID: <006f01c768d8$2f0db2c0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> oops, sent this from the wrong address. > Hi Blaine, > > Yes, I understand that the program was trying to make the first point that > CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. To me, that is an irrelevant point. > Maybe, solar activity has more effect than CO2. That does not necessarily > mean we don't have to worry about the perturbations that CO2 causes, above > what is caused by solar activity. In fact, when they present the graph of > solar activity vs temperature, there is pretty good agreement, until you > get to the last 30 years. Both lines go in the same direction, but by > completely different magnitudes. So, it looks like something changed (i.e. > a perturbation was introduced) in the solar activity vs climate > relationship. (They don't leave that graph on the screen very long. They > take their time following the curves as they get drawn for the last few > hundred years, where they agree very well, and then take the graph off > very quickly after the last 30 years are drawn and one line shows a slight > kink upwards and the other one seems to go off the chart.) > > Now, it looks like I indeed missed your second point that "...x% increase > in CO2 will have no effect on global warming." Where exactly was that > point made? In fact, I got the complete opposite impression: Near the end > of the show, one of the skeptics argues that the global warming proponents > are using bigger CO2 emissions than there actually are and he goes on to > say something like NO WONDER they are predicting high temperature > increases. > > I don't understand how that statement is compatible with your assertion > that x% increase in CO2 will have no effect on global warming. That > skeptic seems to say that, obviously, CO2 causes global warming, but we > overestimate the effect because we overestimate the source term. > > Best Regards, > > Kai > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Blaine Howard" > To: "Kai Kaletsch" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:47 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > > >> Dear Kai, >> I read your comments about "The Great Global Warming >> Swindle " with interest. I wondered how you missed >> the whole point of the video. >> The main points are: >> FIRST AND FOREMOST, CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. >> >> Man made emissions are trivial and CO2 concentrations >> do not drive global warming. It is not a cause and >> effect relationship, so x% increase in CO2 will have >> no effect on global warming. >> The great oceans are a tremendous reservoir for CO2 >> which buffers the effect of current emissions, >> spreading it over hundreds of years. >> The primary factors for global warming (and cooling) >> are the SUN and the CLOUDS (water vapor). >> These are factors over which we have absolutely no >> control. So to limit the underdeveloped countries to >> not using the energy sources available to them and >> asking them to get there electricity from solar and >> wind generators is ridiculous and cruel to the poor >> people of those countries. >> The earth has a tremendous capacity for temperature >> control since it was designed by the ultimate expert. >> So we need to back off from trying to control the >> uncontrollable and develop the energy sources He has >> made available to us for the benefit of all mankind. >> >> Sincerely, >> Blaine N. Howard >> >> > From sjd at swcp.com Sat Mar 17 18:49:28 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:49:28 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <200703172023.l2HKNuKJ000944@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> References: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> March 17 Otto: Where were Prof. Lindzen's comments published? Has the correlation of sunspot activity been published in a journal that is readily accessible to the layman, and if so which journal and what is the citation? Thank you for your assistance. Steven Dapra At 01:23 PM 3/17/07 -0800, Otto G. Raabe wrote: >>March 17, 2007 > >According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research >Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our >primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the >science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global >mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; >(2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two >centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase >is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we >are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to >carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." > >Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the >UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly >known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth >temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is >unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with >the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 >degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. > >Otto From sjd at swcp.com Sat Mar 17 18:51:23 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:51:23 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> March 17 Blaine: Where would be the best place to read about the role of sun and clouds in global warming? Thank you for your assistance. Steven Dapra At 12:47 PM 3/17/07 -0700, Blaine Howard wrote: >Dear Kai, > I read your comments about "The Great Global Warming >Swindle " with interest. I wondered how you missed >the whole point of the video. > The main points are: >FIRST AND FOREMOST, CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. > >Man made emissions are trivial and CO2 concentrations >do not drive global warming. It is not a cause and >effect relationship, so x% increase in CO2 will have >no effect on global warming. >The great oceans are a tremendous reservoir for CO2 >which buffers the effect of current emissions, >spreading it over hundreds of years. >The primary factors for global warming (and cooling) >are the SUN and the CLOUDS (water vapor). >These are factors over which we have absolutely no >control. So to limit the underdeveloped countries to >not using the energy sources available to them and >asking them to get there electricity from solar and >wind generators is ridiculous and cruel to the poor >people of those countries. >The earth has a tremendous capacity for temperature >control since it was designed by the ultimate expert. >So we need to back off from trying to control the >uncontrollable and develop the energy sources He has >made available to us for the benefit of all mankind. > >Sincerely, >Blaine N. Howard From maurysis at peoplepc.com Sat Mar 17 19:57:06 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:57:06 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> References: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <45FC8E62.70005@peoplepc.com> Dear Steve, Otto, et al Below are sources in response to your requests. I have extracted these items from Fred Singer's distribution of : The Week That Was (March 17, 2007)?Brought to you by SEPP Best regards, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.cpm) ============================== Steven Dapra wrote: > March 17 > > Otto: > > Where were Prof. Lindzen's comments published? Has the correlation of > sunspot activity been published in a journal that is readily > accessible to the layman, and if so which journal and what is the > citation? > > Thank you for your assistance. > > Steven Dapra > _________________ > At 01:23 PM 3/17/07 -0800, Otto G. Raabe wrote: > >>> March 17, 2007 >> >> According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National >> Research Council global warming > ------------snipped----------- ========================== The long-awaited reply to Al Gore?s An Inconvenient Truth? -- in the form of the British documentary ?The Great Global Warming Swindle.? After almost 4 million views on Google, see it now on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Wr1hcIp2U. We [TWTW by Singer] will announce its availability as a DVD on TWTW. Another significant event: The skeptics win an important debate (ITEM #3). Here is the transcript of the NY global warming debate featuring Lindzen and Crichton: http://ff.org/centers/csspp/pdf/20070316_notcrisis.pdf =========================== From eic at shaw.ca Sat Mar 17 20:27:42 2007 From: eic at shaw.ca (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:27:42 -0600 Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus References: <45FAD92E.1030902@pitt.edu> <001a01c7682c$27daaa00$4501a8c0@RAMSERVICE1> Message-ID: <00a701c768fc$9fdc9830$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Hi Don, I think that, in most cases, biomass means straw, sawdust, branches etc that would otherwise be left to rot or burned, releasing CO2 without recovering any BTUs. You are correct that the source of the material needs to be considered. If forests are cut down in order to burn the wood, then there is a temporary increase in CO2 release. If trees are planted on grazing or unused land (because they now have economic value) then there will be a temporary net absorption of CO2. In any case, unqualified statements like: burning biomass produces more CO2 than coal, are misleading. Kai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Jordan" To: Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus > This may not be strictly true because: > > (a) If the biomass is not replaced, then there is a net increase in the > CO2 > and also a decrease in the sink (i.e., rain forest). > > (b) the chemical and biological kinetics of the new growth may lag behind > the production rate for a while. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bernard L. Cohen" > To: > Cc: ; ; > > Sent: 16 March, 2007 11:51 AM > Subject: Re: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus > > >> >> >> RuthWeiner at aol.com wrote: >> >> > . Forcing a state like New Mexico to get a fraction of electricity >> > from "renewables" (including biomass which produces more CO2 per BTU, >> > not less, than coal) does nothing except make electricity more >> > expensive. And so on. >> > >> >> ---Burning biomass does not add any net CO2 to the Earth's >> atmosphere, because the CO2 it emits was originally removed from the >> atmosphere in growing the biomass. >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From maurysis at peoplepc.com Sat Mar 17 22:55:17 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:55:17 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <45FCB825.4060903@peoplepc.com> Here is an extensive paper concerned with solar influence ... http://www.john-daly.com/solar/solar.htm Correlation is not causality, but a number of requirements for inferring causality are met by papers in this search. Enjoy! Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) =================== Steven Dapra wrote: > March 17 > > Blaine: > > Where would be the best place to read about the role of sun > and clouds in global warming? > > Thank you for your assistance. > > Steven Dapra > ______________________ > At 12:47 PM 3/17/07 -0700, Blaine Howard wrote: Dear Kai, I read your comments about "The Great Global Warming Swindle " with interest. I wondered how you missed the whole point of the video. The main points are: FIRST AND FOREMOST, CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. Man made emissions are trivial and CO2 concentrations do not drive global warming. It is not a cause and effect relationship, so x% increase in CO2 will have no effect on global warming. The great oceans are a tremendous reservoir for CO2 which buffers the effect of current emissions, spreading it over hundreds of years. The primary factors for global warming (and cooling) are the SUN and the CLOUDS (water vapor). These are factors over which we have absolutely no control. So to limit the underdeveloped countries to not using the energy sources available to them and asking them to get there electricity from solar and wind generators is ridiculous and cruel to the poor people of those countries. The earth has a tremendous capacity for temperature control since it was designed by the ultimate expert. So we need to back off from trying to control the uncontrollable and develop the energy sources He has made available to us for the benefit of all mankind. Sincerely, Blaine N. Howard From maurysis at peoplepc.com Sat Mar 17 23:07:40 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 22:07:40 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> Dang, meant to include this with last posting -- a search on teoma.com using the phrase: [sunspot correlation with global temperature] will yield extensive data references. Maury&Dog maurysis at peoplepc.com ===================== Steven Dapra wrote: > March 17 > > Blaine: > > Where would be the best place to read about the role of sun > and clouds in global warming? > > Thank you for your assistance. > > Steven Dapra > > > At 12:47 PM 3/17/07 -0700, Blaine Howard wrote: > >> Dear Kai, >> I read your comments about "The Great Global Warming > --------------snipped---------- From ograabe at ucdavis.edu Sun Mar 18 01:50:46 2007 From: ograabe at ucdavis.edu (Otto G. Raabe) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 22:50:46 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> References: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <200703180556.l2I5uAKJ016896@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> At 03:49 PM 3/17/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: >Where were Prof. Lindzen's comments published? Has the correlation >of sunspot activity been published in a journal that is readily >accessible to the layman, and if so which journal and what is the citation? ******************************* I found the Lindzen statements at the Web Site of Professor Walter E. Williams (WalterEWILLIams.com). The solar data and earth temperature comparison is from the Danish Meteorological Institute as presented on page A12, March 14, Investors Business Daily. Otto ********************************************** Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP Center for Health & the Environment University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 *********************************************** From kai at eic.nu Sat Mar 17 16:01:16 2007 From: kai at eic.nu (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:01:16 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle References: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005f01c768d7$6792cdc0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Hi Blaine, Yes, I understand that the program was trying to make the first point that CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. To me, that is an irrelevant point. Maybe, solar activity has more effect than CO2. That does not necessarily mean we don't have to worry about the perturbations that CO2 causes, above what is caused by solar activity. In fact, when they present the graph of solar activity vs temperature, there is pretty good agreement, until you get to the last 30 years. Both lines go in the same direction, but by completely different magnitudes. So, it looks like something changed (i.e. a perturbation was introduced) in the solar activity vs climate relationship. (They don't leave that graph on the screen very long. They take their time following the curves as they get drawn for the last few hundred years, where they agree very well, and then take the graph off very quickly after the last 30 years are drawn and one line shows a slight kink upwards and the other one seems to go off the chart.) Now, it looks like I indeed missed your second point that "...x% increase in CO2 will have no effect on global warming." Where exactly was that point made? In fact, I got the complete opposite impression: Near the end of the show, one of the skeptics argues that the global warming proponents are using bigger CO2 emissions than there actually are and he goes on to say something like NO WONDER they are predicting high temperature increases. I don't understand how that statement is compatible with your assertion that x% increase in CO2 will have no effect on global warming. That skeptic seems to say that, obviously, CO2 causes global warming, but we overestimate the effect because we overestimate the source term. Best Regards, Kai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blaine Howard" To: "Kai Kaletsch" Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > Dear Kai, > I read your comments about "The Great Global Warming > Swindle " with interest. I wondered how you missed > the whole point of the video. > The main points are: > FIRST AND FOREMOST, CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. > > Man made emissions are trivial and CO2 concentrations > do not drive global warming. It is not a cause and > effect relationship, so x% increase in CO2 will have > no effect on global warming. > The great oceans are a tremendous reservoir for CO2 > which buffers the effect of current emissions, > spreading it over hundreds of years. > The primary factors for global warming (and cooling) > are the SUN and the CLOUDS (water vapor). > These are factors over which we have absolutely no > control. So to limit the underdeveloped countries to > not using the energy sources available to them and > asking them to get there electricity from solar and > wind generators is ridiculous and cruel to the poor > people of those countries. > The earth has a tremendous capacity for temperature > control since it was designed by the ultimate expert. > So we need to back off from trying to control the > uncontrollable and develop the energy sources He has > made available to us for the benefit of all mankind. > > Sincerely, > Blaine N. Howard > > From eic at shaw.ca Sun Mar 18 13:08:20 2007 From: eic at shaw.ca (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 12:08:20 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200703172023.l2HKNuKJ000944@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Message-ID: <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> I agree with what Otto said and I'm not particularly alarmed about global warming. Living in Canada, its a bit of a stretch to try to convince me that shorter, warmer winters are a bad thing. However, given that we all agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, I think it is a fair question to ask: How much would the temperature increase if we keep increasing our CO2 output at the current rate (assuming no change in solar activity etc)? Unfortunately, the global warming skeptics have not provided a quantitative answer. If the answer depends on inputs that we don't know, then give me a range of possibilities (and, if possible, probabilities). I don't like questions like: How much of our 0.2C temperature increase since 1940 is due to industrial CO2 releases? To some people, this implies that all individual contributing factors have to be less than 0.2C. Of course, this does not follow logically. You could have a 2.2C warming due to CO2, offset by a 0.2C cooling because of reduced solar activity (please correct me if I'm wrong, but, if I remember the graph correctly, the current level of solar activity is still less than the 1940 peak, while the current temperatures are higher) and a 1.8C cooling due to emissions that block sunlight. (For most of the time since the industrial revolution, we have emitted fairly little CO2 and lots of other pollution, like SO2 and particulate. In the west, we have only recently started to reduce these. Other places in the world are still emitting a lot of that stuff.) Regards, Kai ----- Original Message ----- From: Otto G. Raabe To: Blaine Howard ; Kai Kaletsch Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle March 17, 2007 According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. Otto ********************************************** Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP Center for Health & the Environment University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 *********************************************** From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Sun Mar 18 13:34:23 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:34:23 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200703172023.l2HKNuKJ000944@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: <2865DE8C18B74375A2A46CA5F5646A34@JohnPC> Kai I live in Canada also, and am concerned about global warming and the melting of the polar "ice caps". Our house is over 100 m above sea level but houses below us in Vancouver and in other cities on the three coasts are concerned because they will be under water. John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kai Kaletsch" To: "Otto G. Raabe" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle >I agree with what Otto said and I'm not particularly alarmed about global >warming. Living in Canada, its a bit of a stretch to try to convince me >that shorter, warmer winters are a bad thing. > > However, given that we all agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, I think it > is a fair question to ask: How much would the temperature increase if we > keep increasing our CO2 output at the current rate (assuming no change in > solar activity etc)? Unfortunately, the global warming skeptics have not > provided a quantitative answer. If the answer depends on inputs that we > don't know, then give me a range of possibilities (and, if possible, > probabilities). > > I don't like questions like: How much of our 0.2C temperature increase > since 1940 is due to industrial CO2 releases? > > To some people, this implies that all individual contributing factors have > to be less than 0.2C. Of course, this does not follow logically. You could > have a 2.2C warming due to CO2, offset by a 0.2C cooling because of > reduced solar activity (please correct me if I'm wrong, but, if I remember > the graph correctly, the current level of solar activity is still less > than the 1940 peak, while the current temperatures are higher) and a 1.8C > cooling due to emissions that block sunlight. (For most of the time since > the industrial revolution, we have emitted fairly little CO2 and lots of > other pollution, like SO2 and particulate. In the west, we have only > recently started to reduce these. Other places in the world are still > emitting a lot of that stuff.) > > Regards, > Kai > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Otto G. Raabe > To: Blaine Howard ; Kai Kaletsch > Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 3:23 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > > > March 17, 2007 > > According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research > Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our > primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the > science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global > mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; > (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two > centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase > is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we > are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to > carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." > > Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the > UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly > known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth > temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is > unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with > the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 > degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. > > Otto > > > ********************************************** > Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP > Center for Health & the Environment > University of California > One Shields Avenue > Davis, CA 95616 > E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu > Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 > *********************************************** > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From kaleissa at kacst.edu.sa Sun Mar 18 15:07:47 2007 From: kaleissa at kacst.edu.sa (Dr. Khalid Aleissa) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 23:07:47 +0300 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <2865DE8C18B74375A2A46CA5F5646A34@JohnPC> Message-ID: <20070318200647.6D9BADF22E@ns.kacst.edu.sa> Although the topic is interesting but, I do not see any real relationship between global warming and radiation protection? Khalid -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John R Johnson Sent: 18 March, 2007 09:34 ? To: Kai Kaletsch; Otto G. Raabe Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Kai I live in Canada also, and am concerned about global warming and the melting of the polar "ice caps". Our house is over 100 m above sea level but houses below us in Vancouver and in other cities on the three coasts are concerned because they will be under water. John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kai Kaletsch" To: "Otto G. Raabe" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle >I agree with what Otto said and I'm not particularly alarmed about global >warming. Living in Canada, its a bit of a stretch to try to convince me >that shorter, warmer winters are a bad thing. > > However, given that we all agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, I think it > is a fair question to ask: How much would the temperature increase if we > keep increasing our CO2 output at the current rate (assuming no change in > solar activity etc)? Unfortunately, the global warming skeptics have not > provided a quantitative answer. If the answer depends on inputs that we > don't know, then give me a range of possibilities (and, if possible, > probabilities). > > I don't like questions like: How much of our 0.2C temperature increase > since 1940 is due to industrial CO2 releases? > > To some people, this implies that all individual contributing factors have > to be less than 0.2C. Of course, this does not follow logically. You could > have a 2.2C warming due to CO2, offset by a 0.2C cooling because of > reduced solar activity (please correct me if I'm wrong, but, if I remember > the graph correctly, the current level of solar activity is still less > than the 1940 peak, while the current temperatures are higher) and a 1.8C > cooling due to emissions that block sunlight. (For most of the time since > the industrial revolution, we have emitted fairly little CO2 and lots of > other pollution, like SO2 and particulate. In the west, we have only > recently started to reduce these. Other places in the world are still > emitting a lot of that stuff.) > > Regards, > Kai > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Otto G. Raabe > To: Blaine Howard ; Kai Kaletsch > Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 3:23 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > > > March 17, 2007 > > According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research > Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our > primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the > science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global > mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; > (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two > centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase > is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we > are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to > carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." > > Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the > UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly > known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth > temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is > unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with > the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 > degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. > > Otto > > > ********************************************** > Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP > Center for Health & the Environment > University of California > One Shields Avenue > Davis, CA 95616 > E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu > Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 > *********************************************** > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Sun Mar 18 15:14:36 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 13:14:36 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <20070318200647.6D9BADF22E@ns.kacst.edu.sa> References: <20070318200647.6D9BADF22E@ns.kacst.edu.sa> Message-ID: <224937F2C50D4570941B2F7B5E4161EA@JohnPC> Khalid It is because global warming is causing the ocean levels to rise. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Khalid Aleissa" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 1:07 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Although the topic is interesting but, I do not see any real relationship between global warming and radiation protection? Khalid -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John R Johnson Sent: 18 March, 2007 09:34 ? To: Kai Kaletsch; Otto G. Raabe Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Kai I live in Canada also, and am concerned about global warming and the melting of the polar "ice caps". Our house is over 100 m above sea level but houses below us in Vancouver and in other cities on the three coasts are concerned because they will be under water. John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kai Kaletsch" To: "Otto G. Raabe" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle >I agree with what Otto said and I'm not particularly alarmed about global >warming. Living in Canada, its a bit of a stretch to try to convince me >that shorter, warmer winters are a bad thing. > > However, given that we all agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, I think it > is a fair question to ask: How much would the temperature increase if we > keep increasing our CO2 output at the current rate (assuming no change in > solar activity etc)? Unfortunately, the global warming skeptics have not > provided a quantitative answer. If the answer depends on inputs that we > don't know, then give me a range of possibilities (and, if possible, > probabilities). > > I don't like questions like: How much of our 0.2C temperature increase > since 1940 is due to industrial CO2 releases? > > To some people, this implies that all individual contributing factors have > to be less than 0.2C. Of course, this does not follow logically. You could > have a 2.2C warming due to CO2, offset by a 0.2C cooling because of > reduced solar activity (please correct me if I'm wrong, but, if I remember > the graph correctly, the current level of solar activity is still less > than the 1940 peak, while the current temperatures are higher) and a 1.8C > cooling due to emissions that block sunlight. (For most of the time since > the industrial revolution, we have emitted fairly little CO2 and lots of > other pollution, like SO2 and particulate. In the west, we have only > recently started to reduce these. Other places in the world are still > emitting a lot of that stuff.) > > Regards, > Kai > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Otto G. Raabe > To: Blaine Howard ; Kai Kaletsch > Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 3:23 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > > > March 17, 2007 > > According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research > Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our > primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the > science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global > mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; > (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two > centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase > is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we > are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to > carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." > > Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the > UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly > known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth > temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is > unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with > the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 > degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. > > Otto > > > ********************************************** > Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP > Center for Health & the Environment > University of California > One Shields Avenue > Davis, CA 95616 > E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu > Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 > *********************************************** > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 18 20:28:34 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:28:34 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <2865DE8C18B74375A2A46CA5F5646A34@JohnPC> References: <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200703172023.l2HKNuKJ000944@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070318182209.009f3d70@mail.swcp.com> March 18 What's to keep the water from that melted ice from running back into the opening left by the ice that has melted? How much of the polar ice cap is above water? Since water expands when it freezes, the volume of liquid water will be smaller than the volume of frozen water (won't it?), and some of that ice cap will run into the excess volume left after the ice melts -- won't it? Am I missing something here with cities allegedly being under water? Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 11:34 AM 3/18/07 -0700, John R Johnson wrote: >Kai > >I live in Canada also, and am concerned about global warming and the >melting of the polar "ice caps". Our house is over 100 m above sea level >but houses below us in Vancouver and in other cities on the three coasts >are concerned because they will be under water. > >John >*************** >John R Johnson, PhD >CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >Vancouver, B. C. >Canada >(604) 222-9840 >idias at interchange.ubc.ca > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Kai Kaletsch" >To: "Otto G. Raabe" >Cc: >Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:08 AM >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > > >>I agree with what Otto said and I'm not particularly alarmed about global >>warming. Living in Canada, its a bit of a stretch to try to convince me >>that shorter, warmer winters are a bad thing. [edit] >>Regards, >>Kai From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 18 20:28:43 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:28:43 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <200703180556.l2I5uAKJ016896@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070318180807.009edd50@mail.swcp.com> March 18 I thank Dr. Raabe for sending the link to Walter Williams' web site. I sent Prof. Williams an e-mail asking for the primary source to Lindzen's statements about global warming. He wasn't certain of the source, and sent me this link to Lindzen's portion of the MIT website: . Entering this portion of the URL takes one to a directory of Lindzen's global warming testimonies in 1991, 1996, 1997, and the 2001 testimony in the link above. All of them are well worth reading, and the '91 and '97 testimonies have references. Entering this portion of the URL takes one to a directory of Lindzen's papers and other of his material. Within this is a link to Lindzen's review of "Laboratory Earth: The Planetary Gamble We Can't Afford to Lose" by Stephen H. Schneider (1997). It's also worth reading, and was published in "Regulation," Spring 1998 (Cato Institute). Lindzen takes a decidedly dim view of Schneider's book. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 10:50 PM 3/17/07 -0800, Otto G. Raabe wrote: >At 03:49 PM 3/17/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: >>Where were Prof. Lindzen's comments published? Has the correlation of >>sunspot activity been published in a journal that is readily accessible >>to the layman, and if so which journal and what is the citation? >******************************* >I found the Lindzen statements at the Web Site of Professor Walter E. >Williams (WalterEWILLIams.com). The solar data and earth temperature >comparison is from the Danish Meteorological Institute as presented on >page A12, March 14, Investors Business Daily. > >Otto > >********************************************** >Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP >Center for Health & the Environment >University of California >One Shields Avenue >Davis, CA 95616 >E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu >Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 >*********************************************** From hflong at pacbell.net Sun Mar 18 19:32:59 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <224937F2C50D4570941B2F7B5E4161EA@JohnPC> Message-ID: <20070319003259.99991.qmail@web83504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Nuclear power SHOULD be promoted by believers that coal plants cause sea level rise, That is the radsafe pertinence. Actually, the antartic ice cap is thickening and any artic ice melt won't change sea levels, since it is floating (test that with ice cubes in a glass of water). Howard Long John R Johnson wrote: Khalid It is because global warming is causing the ocean levels to rise. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Khalid Aleissa" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 1:07 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Although the topic is interesting but, I do not see any real relationship between global warming and radiation protection? Khalid -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John R Johnson Sent: 18 March, 2007 09:34 ? To: Kai Kaletsch; Otto G. Raabe Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Kai I live in Canada also, and am concerned about global warming and the melting of the polar "ice caps". Our house is over 100 m above sea level but houses below us in Vancouver and in other cities on the three coasts are concerned because they will be under water. John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kai Kaletsch" To: "Otto G. Raabe" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle >I agree with what Otto said and I'm not particularly alarmed about global >warming. Living in Canada, its a bit of a stretch to try to convince me >that shorter, warmer winters are a bad thing. > > However, given that we all agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, I think it > is a fair question to ask: How much would the temperature increase if we > keep increasing our CO2 output at the current rate (assuming no change in > solar activity etc)? Unfortunately, the global warming skeptics have not > provided a quantitative answer. If the answer depends on inputs that we > don't know, then give me a range of possibilities (and, if possible, > probabilities). > > I don't like questions like: How much of our 0.2C temperature increase > since 1940 is due to industrial CO2 releases? > > To some people, this implies that all individual contributing factors have > to be less than 0.2C. Of course, this does not follow logically. You could > have a 2.2C warming due to CO2, offset by a 0.2C cooling because of > reduced solar activity (please correct me if I'm wrong, but, if I remember > the graph correctly, the current level of solar activity is still less > than the 1940 peak, while the current temperatures are higher) and a 1.8C > cooling due to emissions that block sunlight. (For most of the time since > the industrial revolution, we have emitted fairly little CO2 and lots of > other pollution, like SO2 and particulate. In the west, we have only > recently started to reduce these. Other places in the world are still > emitting a lot of that stuff.) > > Regards, > Kai > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Otto G. Raabe > To: Blaine Howard ; Kai Kaletsch > Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 3:23 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > > > March 17, 2007 > > According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research > Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our > primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the > science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global > mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; > (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two > centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase > is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we > are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to > carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." > > Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the > UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly > known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth > temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is > unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with > the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 > degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. > > Otto > > > ********************************************** > Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP > Center for Health & the Environment > University of California > One Shields Avenue > Davis, CA 95616 > E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu > Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 > *********************************************** > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From hflong at pacbell.net Sun Mar 18 19:55:34 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] "Solar Activity and Arctic Temperatures" In-Reply-To: <200703180556.l2I5uAKJ016896@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Message-ID: <20070319005535.94959.qmail@web83513.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> "Solar Activity and Arctic Temperatures" graph of Dr Willie Soon is on p 225 of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming (CCHorner, Regnery Pub.) and has been presented by Dr Soon at several DDP meetings, with voluminous other original data. Howard Long "Otto G. Raabe" wrote: At 03:49 PM 3/17/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: >Where were Prof. Lindzen's comments published? Has the correlation >of sunspot activity been published in a journal that is readily >accessible to the layman, and if so which journal and what is the citation? ******************************* I found the Lindzen statements at the Web Site of Professor Walter E. Williams (WalterEWILLIams.com). The solar data and earth temperature comparison is from the Danish Meteorological Institute as presented on page A12, March 14, Investors Business Daily. Otto ********************************************** Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP Center for Health & the Environment University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 *********************************************** _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jk5554 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 18 21:33:12 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070318182209.009f3d70@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <844592.37143.qm@web32504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm not sure that my message yesterday went through properly to the list. (Yahoo spam filter...) In brief, please see "Phaeton's Reins" by MIT climatologist Dr. Kerry Emanuel. Dr. Emanuel is a hurricane scientist and he believes that 'global warming' is indeed occurring. He breaks through a lot of the "party line" polarization on the climate issue. Read the last few paragraphs of the article. http://bostonreview.net/BR32.1/emanuel.html Dr. Emanuel also supports nuclear energy, which is the topic of this list. A proper approach to CO2 mitigation could be very good (money, jobs...) for nuclear energy. I hope everyone here knows that a few (thousand) windmills don't generate enough CO2-free energy for modern civilization. But...we don't have to have coal either.... The two "party line" poles on the climate issue obscure the science and the creativity needed to find solutions. What I mean by "party lines" is the skeptic/Sen. Inhofe crowd on the one side and the "Al Gore/wind power/oh-but-we-don't-want-nukes" crowd on the other side. I would like to see more insight and fewer "party lines" on this list. ~Ruth Sponsler http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/2007/02/climate-scientist-speaks-on-nuclear.html ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 From maurysis at peoplepc.com Sun Mar 18 22:58:45 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:58:45 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Authors, 2007 SPM Message-ID: <45FE0A75.7080104@peoplepc.com> The assertion has been made often that the IPCC SPM was prepared by politicians or policy people as contrasted with scientific folks. I finally got this thing converted -- follows a list of the authors. Does anyone know the educational backgrounds of these writers? Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) PS. I have the full 18 pages as a txt (vs pdf) file if anyone wants it. =================== Climate Change 2007: The Physical Science Basis. Summary for Policymakers Drafting Authors: Richard Aley, Terje Berntsen, NathanielL Bindof, Zhenlin Chen, Amnat Chidthaisong, Piere Friedlingstein, Jonathan Gregory, Gabriele Hegerl, Martin Heimann, Bruce Hewitson, Brian Hoskins, Fortunat Joos, Jean Jouzel, Vladimir Katsov, UlrikeLohmann, Martin Manning, Taroh Matsuno, Mario Molina, Nevile Nichols, Jonathan Overpeck, Dahe Qin, Graciela Raga, Venkatachalam Ramaswamy, Jiawen Ren, Matilde Rusticucci, Susan Solomon, Richard Somervile, Thomas F.Stocker, Peter Stot, Ronald J. Stoufer, Penny Wheton, Richard A.Wood, David Wrat Draft Contributing Authors: Julie Arblaster, Guy Braseur, Jens Heselbjerg Christensen, Kenneth Denman, David W.Fahey, Piers Forster, Eystein Jansen, Philip D.Jones, Reto Knuti, Herv? LeTreut, Peter Lemke, Gerald Mehl, Philip Mote, David Randal, D?ith? A. Stone, Kevin E. Trenberth, J?rgen Wilebrand, Francis Zwiers From andrewsjp at chartertn.net Mon Mar 19 09:19:58 2007 From: andrewsjp at chartertn.net (John Andrews) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:19:58 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070318182209.009f3d70@mail.swcp.com> References: <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200703172023.l2HKNuKJ000944@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070318182209.009f3d70@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <45FE9C0E.1040009@chartertn.net> Steven Dapra wrote: > March 18 > > What's to keep the water from that melted ice from running > back into the opening left by the ice that has melted? How much of > the polar ice cap is above water? Since water expands when it > freezes, the volume of liquid water will be smaller than the volume of > frozen water (won't it?), and some of that ice cap will run into the > excess volume left after the ice melts -- won't it? > > Am I missing something here with cities allegedly being under > water? > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > > At 11:34 AM 3/18/07 -0700, John R Johnson wrote: >> Kai >> >> I live in Canada also, and am concerned about global warming and the >> melting of the polar "ice caps". Our house is over 100 m above sea >> level but houses below us in Vancouver and in other cities on the >> three coasts are concerned because they will be under water. >> >> John >> *************** >> John R Johnson, PhD >> CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >> Vancouver, B. C. >> Canada >> (604) 222-9840 >> idias at interchange.ubc.ca snip Stephen, the thing is that water contracts as it cools until just above freezing, then begins to expand again. So, the net result is that when the ice warms, then melts it is contracting, then when it begins to warm as water it expands. Interestingly, there is a current report of a huge eddy in the ocean off Australia that is so big, so deep, and so cold that it causes a one meter depression in the surface of the ocean. Of course this can only occur in deep water, not near the coastline. But, think about it, if the entire oceans warm even a little, the water expands and the oceans get deeper. Hint, sell your beach property now! The average depth of the oceans is 3720 meters. The density of pure water at 60 deg C is 0.985. Using this number it appears that a one degree C rise in the overall ocean temperature would be about 1 meter increase in sea level, approximately. Of course it takes a lot longer for the ocean to warm than it does for the atmosphere. But you get the picture. John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee From blc+ at pitt.edu Mon Mar 19 09:59:01 2007 From: blc+ at pitt.edu (Bernard L. Cohen) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:59:01 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Renewables In-Reply-To: <20070316233050.53726.qmail@web83509.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <20070316233050.53726.qmail@web83509.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45FEA535.6020507@pitt.edu> howard long wrote: > If coal is fossil fuel it is biomass, formed from plants that took up > CO2 from the atmosphere. Burning coal (or corn ethanol or sugarcane > or waste paper) does not then add to atmospheric CO2 in the long run. > Correct? ---The coal took CO2 out of the atmosphere hundreds of millions of years ago and life on Earth has adapted to this reduced atmospheric CO2 since then. It would therefore be risky to return that CO2 to the atmosphere. However growing biomass is taking CO2 out of the atmosphere in the present era so returning it to the atmosphere now does not change the situation in the present era. From eic at shaw.ca Mon Mar 19 10:14:31 2007 From: eic at shaw.ca (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:14:31 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <015401c76a39$4b942a70$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Friends, it looks like the film The Great Global Warming Swindle [see http://video.google.com:80/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831 ] may itself be a fraudumentary [ see for example http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2355956.ece ] I was wondering why all the data presented stopped in the 1980s. It turns out that was when the data sets were discredited. It turns out that neither solar activity or CO2 do a very good job of explaining the cooling observed after 1940 [ see http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/aerosol.gif ]. One hypothesis is that pollution was blocking the sun. --- So much for the assertion that we puny humans can't possibly affect the climate. Regards, Kai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maury Siskel" To: "Steven Dapra" Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > Dang, meant to include this with last posting -- a search on teoma.com > using the phrase: [sunspot correlation with global temperature] will yield > extensive data references. > Maury&Dog maurysis at peoplepc.com > > ===================== > Steven Dapra wrote: > >> March 17 >> >> Blaine: >> >> Where would be the best place to read about the role of sun and >> clouds in global warming? >> >> Thank you for your assistance. >> >> Steven Dapra >> >> >> At 12:47 PM 3/17/07 -0700, Blaine Howard wrote: >> >>> Dear Kai, >>> I read your comments about "The Great Global Warming >> > --------------snipped---------- > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Mon Mar 19 18:33:52 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:33:52 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Authors, 2007 SPM In-Reply-To: <45FE0A75.7080104@peoplepc.com> References: <45FE0A75.7080104@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: There is no one in the list of Drafting Authors and Contributing Authors that is recognizably a politician. Richard Alley (not Aley) is a prominent specialist in glaciers and icecaps. Gabriele Hegerl, Fortunat Joos, Jonathon Overpeck, Venkatachalam Ramaswamy, Susan Solomon, Richard Somerville, Thomas Stocker, Peter Stott (not Stot), Phillip Jones, Gerald Mehl (Meehl?), and Kevin Trenberth are all prominent climate scientists. Francis Zwiers literally wrote the book (with von Storch) on the use of statistics in climate research. Mario Molina shared a Nobel prize with Sherry Rowland and a German whose name escapes me at the moment for working out the effect of CFCs on stratospheric ozone. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA Jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Maury Siskel Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 8:59 PM To: radsafe Subject: [ RadSafe ] Authors, 2007 SPM The assertion has been made often that the IPCC SPM was prepared by politicians or policy people as contrasted with scientific folks. I finally got this thing converted -- follows a list of the authors. Does anyone know the educational backgrounds of these writers? Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) PS. I have the full 18 pages as a txt (vs pdf) file if anyone wants it. =================== Climate Change 2007: The Physical Science Basis. Summary for Policymakers Drafting Authors: Richard Aley, Terje Berntsen, NathanielL Bindof, Zhenlin Chen, Amnat Chidthaisong, Piere Friedlingstein, Jonathan Gregory, Gabriele Hegerl, Martin Heimann, Bruce Hewitson, Brian Hoskins, Fortunat Joos, Jean Jouzel, Vladimir Katsov, UlrikeLohmann, Martin Manning, Taroh Matsuno, Mario Molina, Nevile Nichols, Jonathan Overpeck, Dahe Qin, Graciela Raga, Venkatachalam Ramaswamy, Jiawen Ren, Matilde Rusticucci, Susan Solomon, Richard Somervile, Thomas F.Stocker, Peter Stot, Ronald J. Stoufer, Penny Wheton, Richard A.Wood, David Wrat Draft Contributing Authors: Julie Arblaster, Guy Braseur, Jens Heselbjerg Christensen, Kenneth Denman, David W.Fahey, Piers Forster, Eystein Jansen, Philip D.Jones, Reto Knuti, Herv? LeTreut, Peter Lemke, Gerald Mehl, Philip Mote, David Randal, D?ith? A. Stone, Kevin E. Trenberth, J?rgen Wilebrand, Francis Zwiers _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Mon Mar 19 18:50:40 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:50:40 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <20070318200647.6D9BADF22E@ns.kacst.edu.sa> References: <2865DE8C18B74375A2A46CA5F5646A34@JohnPC> <20070318200647.6D9BADF22E@ns.kacst.edu.sa> Message-ID: Dr. Khalid Aleissa wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Dr. Khalid Aleissa Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 1:08 PM Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Although the topic is interesting but, I do not see any real relationship between global warming and radiation protection? Khalid ====================== One connection is that nuclear power is a prominent option for moving toward a low-carbon or non-carbon economy. Interestingly, on the climate blog, www.realclimate.org , a continuing argument between environmental "purists" and those of us more pragmatically inclined, is whether nuclear power is allowable as part of the mix for replacing carbon-based energy. RealClimate, by the way, is the best source I am aware of for sound information from climate scientists about climate science aimed at a technically educated, but not climate-specialist audience. In particular, it has a lot to say about the Global Warming Swindle swindle-video and about William Broad's recent NYTimes piece, both of them introduced to RADSAFE. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA Jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. From blainehoward at yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 19:28:31 2007 From: blainehoward at yahoo.com (Blaine Howard) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <20070319012007.4120.qmail@web83515.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070320002831.53723.qmail@web50605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Dr. Long, I appreciate your note. I have enjoyed reading your comments on important radiation matters and know you express sound judgment. In considering the effects of CO2 on Global Warming, I think that it is wise to be cautious. I used to tell those I trained for radiation work at a low level waste site, ?If the health effects of low dose radiation is so small that the experts can't agree whether it is harmful, beneficial or zero, then it is too small to worry about. Worry has its own negative health effects.? This also reminds me of EPA's actions concerning radon in homes. They sent video's to state radiation control programs flashing ?danger? and skull and cross-bones in an attempt to alarm the public. They wanted them to be passed on the the local TV stations, but I refused to cooperate in their scare tactics. They treated the radon and lung cancer as an emergency situation, when there is a latent period of about 30 years for lung cancer. When Dr. Cohen's study showed a clear negative correlation between radon concentrations and lung cancer mortality, they refused to accept the results and are still refusing after more than 10 years have failed to explain their dilemma. Now, the IPCC and Al Gore are trying to treat Global Warming as an emergency, when the temperature has risen only half a degree in a hundred years. The US government spends many years to study a topic to death before making a decision. Why can't we spend a little time studying Global Warming and make sure our response, if required, is in the right direction. After all, EPA's radon remediation program may be producing more cancer not less, if radon actually helps prevent lung cancer. If we act to reduce industrial development and curtail development in underdeveloped countries, this could have a massive negative effect on civilization and be extremely inhumane. And, if, at the same time, we are not having any effect of global warming, what a catastrophe that would be. The issue is much more complex than I first thought and really does merit extensive study. I appreciate all the help from RadSafe members in finding url's for more information. Sincerely, Blaine N. Howard, Health Physicist (retired) Hyrum, Utah Phone: 435-245-4336 --- howard long wrote: > Well stated, Blaine. > > God bless. > > Howard Long > From sjd at swcp.com Mon Mar 19 21:18:59 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:18:59 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: <015401c76a39$4b942a70$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> March 19 If we are to believe the Independent it looks like someone is playing fast and loose with the truth. (Did anyone note the pro forma use of the pejorative "right-wing" Washington think-tank to describe the George C Marshall Institute?) I have no views either way on the GCM Institute. Pollution blocking the sun -- well it's only a hypothesis. How much pollution is produced by volcanoes and forest fires as compared to that of humans? We humans could well be more puny than we like to think we are. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 09:14 AM 3/19/07 -0600, Kai Kaletsch wrote: >Friends, > >it looks like the film The Great Global Warming Swindle [see >http://video.google.com:80/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831 ] may >itself be a fraudumentary [ see for example >http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2355956.ece >] > >I was wondering why all the data presented stopped in the 1980s. It turns >out that was when the data sets were discredited. It turns out that >neither solar activity or CO2 do a very good job of explaining the cooling >observed after 1940 [ see >http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/aerosol.gif ]. One hypothesis is >that pollution was blocking the sun. --- So much for the assertion that we >puny humans can't possibly affect the climate. > >Regards, >Kai [edit] From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 23:44:18 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Mechanism explains how the most energetic form of light can be produced in areas dominated by bright, young stars Message-ID: <209308.76411.qm@web81613.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.vanderbilt.edu/exploration/stories/cosmicrays.html Mechanism explains how the most energetic form of light can be produced in areas dominated by bright, young stars n 2002, when astronomers first detected cosmic gamma rays ? the most energetic form of light known ? coming from the constellation Cygnus they were surprised and perplexed. The region lacked the extreme electromagnetic fields that they thought were required to produce such energetic rays. But now a team of theoretical physicists propose a mechanism that can explain this mystery and may also help account for another type of cosmic ray, the high-energy nuclei that rain down on Earth in the billions. See the above web address for the remainder of the story and photographs. --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. From Rainer.Facius at dlr.de Tue Mar 20 03:13:44 2007 From: Rainer.Facius at dlr.de (Rainer.Facius at dlr.de) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:13:44 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Authors, 2007 SPM References: <45FE0A75.7080104@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <1B5EBED4E01074419C07EEF9D3802FDAF73CAE@exbe02.intra.dlr.de> "... a German whose name escapes me at the moment " Paul Josef Crutzen, Dutch scientist born Dec. 3rd 1933 in Amsterdam 1980-2000 Director Max-Planck-Institut fuer Chemie, Mainz, Germany Nobel Prize for Chemistry 1995 together with Mario J. Molina and Frank Sherwood Rowland RF ________________________________ Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl im Auftrag von Dukelow, James S Jr Gesendet: Di 20.03.2007 00:33 An: Maury Siskel; radsafe Betreff: RE: [ RadSafe ] Authors, 2007 SPM There is no one in the list of Drafting Authors and Contributing Authors that is recognizably a politician. Richard Alley (not Aley) is a prominent specialist in glaciers and icecaps. Gabriele Hegerl, Fortunat Joos, Jonathon Overpeck, Venkatachalam Ramaswamy, Susan Solomon, Richard Somerville, Thomas Stocker, Peter Stott (not Stot), Phillip Jones, Gerald Mehl (Meehl?), and Kevin Trenberth are all prominent climate scientists. Francis Zwiers literally wrote the book (with von Storch) on the use of statistics in climate research. Mario Molina shared a Nobel prize with Sherry Rowland and a German whose name escapes me at the moment for working out the effect of CFCs on stratospheric ozone. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA Jim.dukelow at pnl.gov From frank.helk at nis-ingenieure.de Tue Mar 20 03:47:31 2007 From: frank.helk at nis-ingenieure.de (Frank Helk) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:47:31 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: <015401c76a39$4b942a70$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: Hi Kai, On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:14:31 -0600, Kai Kaletsch wrote: >I was wondering why all the data presented stopped in the 1980s. It turns >out that was when the data sets were discredited. It turns out that neither >solar activity or CO2 do a very good job of explaining the cooling observed >after 1940 [ see http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/aerosol.gif ]. One >hypothesis is that pollution was blocking the sun. --- So much for the >assertion that we puny humans can't possibly affect the climate. I have taken a deep look at the mentioned image ... and the conclusion is relative clear. As far as I remeber the atmospheric nuclear weapons tests took place from the early 40's to about the mid 70's, and definitely ended about 1980. The period of retarded warming perfectly fits into that period, which could strongly explain that period as a mild "nuclear winter". The other source in the picture comment , "industrial pollution" seems to be not that important, because the pollutants don't reach that high atmospheric levels that the aerosols from nukes do, and as far as I remember are aerosols the more effective the higher they are. That leads me to a somewhat speculative theory: If all the politicians fail to induce a significant drop in CO2 emission to stop gobal warming within about the next 15 years, experts said that the effect could get self-sustaining by causing the oceans to release CO2 due to higher water temperature. In that case, maybe an intended "nuclear winter" could be the "last line of defense" against such an effect ? Greetings Frank From CONTEDU at hsph.harvard.edu Tue Mar 20 09:18:19 2007 From: CONTEDU at hsph.harvard.edu (Harvard Health Professional Training) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:18:19 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Occupational and Environmental Radiation Protection Message-ID: <45FFB4EA.FEF5.004B.0@hsph.harvard.edu> The Harvard School of Public Health will be holding the following event on April 23-26, 2007, which will help in meeting the Federal and State requirements for radiation safety and licensing requirements. Occupational and Environmental Radiation Protection: Principles and Practices of Radiation Safety April 23-26, 2007 Boston, Massachusetts Upon Completion Of This Program You Will Be Able To ? Identify and meet regulatory requirements from both a technical and an administrative point of view ? Develop effective methods for meeting your information needs, through both published and online resources ? Apply the principles of radiation safety protection in an effective manner to problems you will encounter in your work ? Ensure that any doses received by you, your coworkers, and the public will be as low as reasonably achievable ? Provide your professional associates as well as public groups with perspective on the importance of various radiation sources and the effectiveness of control methods in the workplace and the environment For complete details and registration please visit, http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/ccpe/programs/OERP.shtml Also please refer to your reference code: OERP 07- LIST07 From jjcohen at prodigy.net Tue Mar 20 13:47:21 2007 From: jjcohen at prodigy.net (jjcohen at prodigy.net) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:47:21 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The sky is falling! Message-ID: <002d01c76b20$329fafc0$c2f3e245@domainnotset.invalid> As I recall from a childhood tale, Henny Penny found it difficult to convince others that the sky was falling, but Henny Penny may have been correct. Just because the sky has not fallen yet doesn't mean that it may not happen at some future time. Those who warn of a global warming catastrophe, may be facing the same fate as Henny Penny, but if we wait for a long enough time, something terrible is bound to occur. Perhaps it is merely of academic interest, but I wonder whether the polar ice caps will melt before or after the sky falls ;-) Jerry Cohen From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Tue Mar 20 12:58:53 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:58:53 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle References: Message-ID: Kai Kaletsch and Frank Helk wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Frank Helk Sent: Tue 3/20/2007 1:47 AM To: Kai Kaletsch Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle Hi Kai, On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:14:31 -0600, Kai Kaletsch wrote: >I was wondering why all the data presented stopped in the 1980s. It turns >out that was when the data sets were discredited. It turns out that neither >solar activity or CO2 do a very good job of explaining the cooling observed >after 1940 [ see http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/aerosol.gif ]. One >hypothesis is that pollution was blocking the sun. --- So much for the >assertion that we puny humans can't possibly affect the climate. I have taken a deep look at the mentioned image ... and the conclusion is relative clear. As far as I remeber the atmospheric nuclear weapons tests took place from the early 40's to about the mid 70's, and definitely ended about 1980. The period of retarded warming perfectly fits into that period, which could strongly explain that period as a mild "nuclear winter". ======================= A number of years ago, I read the suggestion that atmospheric testing was related to the 1940-1970 cooling because of the impact on stratospheric chemistry of the injection of K-85 from the explosions into the stratosphere -- note: a radiation connection. The proposed mechanism was ionization caused by K-85 decay. I was/am not able, at the time or now, to evaluate how realistic this suggestion is. The other suggestion, which seems pretty reasonable, is that the cooling was caused by wartime and post-war tropospheric aerosols and that the clean air movement began removing aerosols and their cooling effect from the troposphere in the 60s, allowing the increasing concentrations of CO2 and other greenhouse gases incontested warming influence. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. From eic at shaw.ca Tue Mar 20 13:11:11 2007 From: eic at shaw.ca (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:11:11 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Ah, yes... I forgot about the Great Age of Volcanism from 1940 to 1970, which blocked the sun, blew the trees off Easter Island and caused acid rain. The puny humans had nothing to do with any of that. And besides, it is a well known fact that acid rain does not pollute lakes, all the dead fish do. Maybe we can teach this to kids in history class, to 'counterbalance' seeing An Inconvenient Truth that they were shown a few minutes earlier in science class. All joking aside, I am not a fan of trying to counterbalance nutty statements from one side of the political spectrum with even nuttier statements from the other side of the spectrum. This is not a healthy way for society to make decisions. Eventually, we are left to choose between 2 extreme lunatic positions. I think we have a duty to point out inaccurate and misleading statements, even if they support our political positions. When I go out looking for information about the effect CO2 has on climate, I don't appreciate being mislead about the cause and effect relationship between CO2 and warming that the ice core data presents and I don't appreciate being lied to about the correlation between solar activity and global cooling. To me, it is absolutely insane that anyone can support this stuff. Regards, Kai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dapra" To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:18 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle > March 19 > > If we are to believe the Independent it looks like someone is > playing fast and loose with the truth. (Did anyone note the pro forma use > of the pejorative "right-wing" Washington think-tank to describe the > George C Marshall Institute?) I have no views either way on the GCM > Institute. > > Pollution blocking the sun -- well it's only a hypothesis. How > much pollution is produced by volcanoes and forest fires as compared to > that of humans? We humans could well be more puny than we like to think > we are. > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > > At 09:14 AM 3/19/07 -0600, Kai Kaletsch wrote: >>Friends, >> >>it looks like the film The Great Global Warming Swindle [see >>http://video.google.com:80/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831 ] may >>itself be a fraudumentary [ see for example >>http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2355956.ece >>] >> >>I was wondering why all the data presented stopped in the 1980s. It turns >>out that was when the data sets were discredited. It turns out that >>neither solar activity or CO2 do a very good job of explaining the cooling >>observed after 1940 [ see >>http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/aerosol.gif ]. One hypothesis is >>that pollution was blocking the sun. --- So much for the assertion that we >>puny humans can't possibly affect the climate. >> >>Regards, >>Kai > > [edit] > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com Tue Mar 20 13:50:13 2007 From: Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com (Flanigan, Floyd) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 13:50:13 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The sky is falling! In-Reply-To: <002d01c76b20$329fafc0$c2f3e245@domainnotset.invalid> Message-ID: <7A9B2084CC9CEC45828E829CBF20D638013AB17A@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> There is, of course, something to be said for being fore-warned but, it is the motive of those doling out the warnings which interests me the most. Are they truly trying to be helpful or just to be 'right'? I could sit back and predict that every conceivable event will happen tomorrow. Without question, in at least some instances each day, I would be right. Every day, at least some percentage of my predictions would come true. If one is to become the world's greatest prognosticator, one has only to predict everything will happen ... eventually. Personally, I choose to ignore the present data-set on weather. We have a sampling consisting of 100 years give or take. The weather has been in constant flux for say ... several billion years. That would be like polling the body temperature of the family of 6 that lives next door and claiming that I have established the baseline by which all other humans on the planet should have their body temperature weighed against. There is nowhere near enough data points collected to establish any meaningful trends to establish if there is or is not global warming. Just my take on it. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before ... once ... I think it was on a Wednesday ...... :-) Floyd W. Flanigan B.S.Nuc.H.P. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of jjcohen at prodigy.net Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:47 PM To: radsafe Subject: [ RadSafe ] The sky is falling! As I recall from a childhood tale, Henny Penny found it difficult to convince others that the sky was falling, but Henny Penny may have been correct. Just because the sky has not fallen yet doesn't mean that it may not happen at some future time. Those who warn of a global warming catastrophe, may be facing the same fate as Henny Penny, but if we wait for a long enough time, something terrible is bound to occur. Perhaps it is merely of academic interest, but I wonder whether the polar ice caps will melt before or after the sky falls ;-) Jerry Cohen _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From brian.riely at ngc.com Tue Mar 20 15:12:50 2007 From: brian.riely at ngc.com (Riely, Brian P.) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:12:50 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com><45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com><5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: Informative article: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html Some statement from the above: If we are in a global warming crisis today, even the most aggressive and costly proposals for limiting industrial carbon dioxide emissions would have a negligible effect on global climate! Of the 186 billion tons of CO2 that enter earth's atmosphere each year from all sources, only 6 billion tons are from human activity. Approximately 90 billion tons come from biologic activity in earth's oceans and another 90 billion tons from such sources as volcanoes and decaying land plants. At 368 parts per million CO2 is a minor constituent of earth's atmosphere-- less than 4/100ths of 1% of all gases present. Compared to former geologic times, earth's current atmosphere is CO2- impoverished During the last 100 years there have been two general cycles of warming and cooling recorded in the U.S. We are currently in the second warming cycle. Overall, U.S. temperatures show no significant warming trend over the last 100 years (1). This has been well - established but not well - publicized In the 1970s concerned environmentalists like Stephen Schneider of the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado feared a return to another ice age due to manmade atmospheric pollution blocking out the sun. Incidentally, earth's temperature and CO2 levels today have reached levels similar to a previous interglacial cycle of 120,000 - 140,000 years ago. From beginning to end this cycle lasted about 20,000 years. This is known as the Eemian Interglacial Period and the earth returned to a full-fledged ice age immediately afterward. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Kai Kaletsch Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:11 PM To: Steven Dapra; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle Ah, yes... I forgot about the Great Age of Volcanism from 1940 to 1970, which blocked the sun, blew the trees off Easter Island and caused acid rain. The puny humans had nothing to do with any of that. And besides, it is a well known fact that acid rain does not pollute lakes, all the dead fish do. Maybe we can teach this to kids in history class, to 'counterbalance' seeing An Inconvenient Truth that they were shown a few minutes earlier in science class. All joking aside, I am not a fan of trying to counterbalance nutty statements from one side of the political spectrum with even nuttier statements from the other side of the spectrum. This is not a healthy way for society to make decisions. Eventually, we are left to choose between 2 extreme lunatic positions. I think we have a duty to point out inaccurate and misleading statements, even if they support our political positions. When I go out looking for information about the effect CO2 has on climate, I don't appreciate being mislead about the cause and effect relationship between CO2 and warming that the ice core data presents and I don't appreciate being lied to about the correlation between solar activity and global cooling. To me, it is absolutely insane that anyone can support this stuff. Regards, Kai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dapra" To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:18 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle > March 19 > > If we are to believe the Independent it looks like someone is > playing fast and loose with the truth. (Did anyone note the pro forma use > of the pejorative "right-wing" Washington think-tank to describe the > George C Marshall Institute?) I have no views either way on the GCM > Institute. > > Pollution blocking the sun -- well it's only a hypothesis. How > much pollution is produced by volcanoes and forest fires as compared to > that of humans? We humans could well be more puny than we like to think > we are. > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > > At 09:14 AM 3/19/07 -0600, Kai Kaletsch wrote: >>Friends, >> >>it looks like the film The Great Global Warming Swindle [see >>http://video.google.com:80/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831 ] may >>itself be a fraudumentary [ see for example >>http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article235595 6.ece >>] >> >>I was wondering why all the data presented stopped in the 1980s. It turns >>out that was when the data sets were discredited. It turns out that >>neither solar activity or CO2 do a very good job of explaining the cooling >>observed after 1940 [ see >>http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/aerosol.gif ]. One hypothesis is >>that pollution was blocking the sun. --- So much for the assertion that we >>puny humans can't possibly affect the climate. >> >>Regards, >>Kai > > [edit] > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From radproject at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 20 15:54:35 2007 From: radproject at sbcglobal.net (stewart farber) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:54:35 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New from ISIS -- Further Construction at Arak 40 MW Heavy Water Reactor in Iran Message-ID: <00b301c76b31$fec39ab0$0202a8c0@YOUR7C60552B9E> Hello all, On the subject of proliferation and "new reactor construction" some may be interested in the following email from The Institute for Science and International Security [ISIS] along with a link to the full report. Sounds vaguely familiar. Advanced research reactors, hot cells, Pu extraction, Iran [vs. Iraq circa 1981]. The email below notes: "Iranian officials have stated that the reactor is scheduled to be completed in 2009, although this schedule could be delayed for a few years due to problems in building and starting up such a reactor." Shades of Osirak in 1981? Iraq's earlier plans to bring its Osirak advanced "research" reactor [which was supplied to Iraq by the French government in the late 1970s in a deal brokered by Jacques Chirac for 900 million $US and oil concessions] into operation, and to begin to extract similar amounts of Pu each year [using hot cells supplied and approved by Germany at the time] ran into a "start-up" problem of sorts when it was destroyed by a precision F-16 bombing raid [ just before the unit began operations] by Israel using laser guided bombs. Will the past be prologue? Not likely. If anyone is interested in the history of the Osirak reactor, the politics, and the planning and execution of its destruction by Israel see the book: "First Strike--The exclusive story of how Israel foiled Iraq's attempt to get the bomb", Shelomoh Nakdimon, Summit Books, 1987; ISBN: 0-671-63871-8 Most analysts today feel Israel would not act unilaterally in the present case. The situation is different in regards to the dispersed Iranian nuclear program and the fact several superpowers are already involved in substantial initiatives to stop Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. For example, from the Christian Science Monitor: http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0818/p06s01-wome.html Stewart Farber, MS Public Health Consulting Scientist Farber Technical Services 1285 Wood Ave. Bridgeport, CT 06604 [203] 441-8433 [office] [203] 522-2817 [cell] email: radproject at sbcglobal.net =============================== EMAIL FROM ISIS: ----- Original Message ----- From: ISIS Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:46 PM Subject: New from ISIS -- Further Construction at Arak 40 MW Heavy Water Reactor ISIS Imagery Brief: Further Construction at Arak 40 MW Heavy Water Reactor by David Albright and Paul Brannan March 20, 2007 The Institute for Science and International Security ISIS has obtained recent commercial imagery from GeoEye's OrbView-3 satellite of the Arak heavy water reactor and adjacent heavy water production plant in Iran. The imagery from February 25, 2007 shows further construction of buildings adjacent to the reactor vessel. Iran continues to build the 40 MW heavy water reactor at Arak, despite repeated international requests that Iran discontinue this project. Iranian officials have stated that the reactor is scheduled to be completed in 2009, although this schedule could be delayed for a few years due to problems in building and starting up such a reactor. When fully operational, the reactor is estimated to be able to produce about 9 kilograms of weapon-grade plutonium per year, enough for one or two nuclear weapons per year. Iran has told the IAEA that it does not intend to build reprocessing facilities to separate plutonium from this reactor. It did state that it was planning to build hot cells to separate "long-lived radioisotopes," but said that it was having problems obtaining the necessary manipulators and lead glass windows. IAEA investigations into Iran's past reprocessing activities continue, despite decreased cooperation from Iran. View the Full Report at http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iran/ArakConstruction20March2007.pdf For more information contact Paul Brannan or David Albright at 202-547-3633 with any comments or questions. _________________________ Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS) 236 Massachusetts Ave. NE Suite 500 Washington, DC 20002 To unsubscribe/change profile: click here To subscribe: click here -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email list management powered by http://MailerMailer.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.15/728 - Release Date: 3/20/2007 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.15/728 - Release Date: 3/20/2007 From maurysis at peoplepc.com Tue Mar 20 17:59:57 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:59:57 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The sky is falling! In-Reply-To: <7A9B2084CC9CEC45828E829CBF20D638013AB17A@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> References: <7A9B2084CC9CEC45828E829CBF20D638013AB17A@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> Message-ID: <4600676D.5020605@peoplepc.com> Amen, Sir! The sky fell here last Thursday after I made a mistake on Wednesday. I'm taking a series of "observations" from my model (airplane) behavior in order to formulate scientific conclusions about the bees in my backyard and their effects on local climate. Please wait with your breath baited; later you might use the baited breath bubbles for a fishing trip! Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) _____________ Remain watchful: Dew is formed on leaves when the sun shines down on them and makes them perspire. ========================== Flanigan, Floyd wrote: >There is, of course, something to be said for being fore-warned but, it >is the motive of those doling out the warnings which interests me the >most. Are they truly trying to be helpful or just to be 'right'? I could >sit back and predict that every c > ----------------snipped-------------- From sjd at swcp.com Tue Mar 20 21:39:40 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:39:40 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: References: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> March 20 This is a very informative website with a lot of useful and equally informative links. My thanks to Brian Riely for posting this link. It is beginning to look like man-made "global warming" is a fraud and a hoax. It would seem that the earth is in a cycle of warming, and that man-made chemicals have nothing to do with the current warming trend. When you find that the peddlers of global warming are covering up or ignoring the role of water vapor (which is 95% of the gases that cause warming) you can't help but be skeptical -- both of man-made global warming, and skeptical of the honesty of the people pushing it. No flames, please. It's warm enough already. (Har, har.) Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 04:12 PM 3/20/07 -0400, Riely, Brian P. wrote: >Informative article: > >http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html > >Some statement from the above: > >If we are in a global warming crisis today, even the most aggressive and >costly proposals for limiting industrial carbon dioxide emissions would >have a negligible effect on global climate! > >Of the 186 billion tons of CO2 that enter earth's atmosphere each year >from all sources, only 6 billion tons are from human activity. >Approximately 90 billion tons come from biologic activity in earth's >oceans and another 90 billion tons from such sources as volcanoes and >decaying land plants. > >At 368 parts per million CO2 is a minor constituent of earth's >atmosphere-- less than 4/100ths of 1% of all gases present. Compared to >former geologic times, earth's current atmosphere is CO2- impoverished > >During the last 100 years there have been two general cycles of warming >and cooling recorded in the U.S. We are currently in the second warming >cycle. Overall, U.S. temperatures show no significant warming trend over >the last 100 years (1). This has been well - established but not well - >publicized > >In the 1970s concerned environmentalists like Stephen Schneider of the >National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado feared a >return to another ice age due to manmade atmospheric pollution blocking >out the sun. > >Incidentally, earth's temperature and CO2 levels today have reached >levels similar to a previous interglacial cycle of 120,000 - 140,000 >years ago. From beginning to end this cycle lasted about 20,000 years. >This is known as the Eemian Interglacial Period and the earth returned >to a full-fledged ice age immediately afterward. [EDIT] From jk5554 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 21:27:34 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <453309.23615.qm@web32509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This list has become host to extremist "all-or-nothing" viewpoints that paint climate scientists as environmental extremists. I am quite disappointed about this, in light of the fact that, today, in my state of North Carolina, Duke Energy has just passed a milestone on its way to possible new nuclear power construction, and has, in fact, cited limitation of carbon dioxide emissions as one (but not the only) justification for possible new nuclear build. http://www.duke-energy.com/news/releases/2007032001.asp In its news release, Duke Energy said, "The commission ruled that it is appropriate for the utility to pursue the development of the project to preserve nuclear generation as an option for customers. The commission offered its general assurance that such activities are appropriate. "While we continue to review the full order to understand its implications, we are pleased with the ruling and view it as an important show of support for new nuclear generation to meet the growing needs of customers in the Carolinas," said Ellen Ruff, president of Duke Energy Carolinas. Nuclear generation has zero greenhouse gas emissions and is a key part of Duke Energy Carolinas? plan to reduce the carbon footprint of our generation portfolio. .. "We also look forward to continuing to work with the commission and lawmakers in both Carolinas to facilitate construction of this important clean energy source," she said." In addition, in a completely separate story, Anne Lauvergeon of Electricite de France and former CIA director John Deutch have said that the United States should act to cap emissions of greenhouse gases or risk losing global leadership. http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/19/business/green.php .... But here on the list, these utility CEOs and leaders are seen as just a bunch of people "duped" into believing in a "hoax" perpetrated by "left-wing" climatologists like MIT hurricane scientist Dr. Kerry Emanuel: http://bostonreview.net/BR32.1/emanuel.html Dr. Emanuel criticizes the "Green" extremists for their anti-nuclear views. It seems there is no room on this list for a centrist, independent viewpoint between the extremes of the anti-technology, anti-everything viewpoint of Greenpeace (on the Left) and the "let's release_unlimited_CO2_" viewpoint of Sen. James Inhofe (on the Right). A political climate is dangerous when it allows no room between extremes. ~Ruth Sponsler http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather From gary at pageturners.com Tue Mar 20 22:09:10 2007 From: gary at pageturners.com (Gary Damschen) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:09:10 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Solar Activity and Arctic Temperatures Message-ID: <000401c76b66$52c2c1c0$f8484540$@com> All, Since I was treated to a series of polemics, pro and con, the last time I asked about the science behind anthropogenic global warming claims, I have refrained from further posts. However, with the recent warming threads, I would like to ask for comment regarding the theory posited at http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm I would appreciate it if we could refrain from ad hominem attacks on Dr. Spencer and/or his theory this time, particularly attacks on his education, funding sources, level of dis/belief in anthropogenic causes of warming, etc. If his theory and data are credible, I don't see that any of those things matter, anyway. So, I'm hoping for well-reasoned responses regarding the potential validity of his theory and his presented data, particularly with respect to how well it does or doesn't support his position regarding the claimed "settled"ness of climate change research and where he thinks research should be focused. Thanks, Gary From maurysis at peoplepc.com Wed Mar 21 02:33:54 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 01:33:54 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <453309.23615.qm@web32509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <453309.23615.qm@web32509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4600DFE2.9040508@peoplepc.com> Hi Ruth, I cannot agree that this List "...paints climate scientists as environmental extremists" Many of us do so paint climate scientists who insist that the science of AGW is closed, no longer open to debate, and no longer amenable to contrary evidence and who laugh at our supposed ignorance. There was great enjoyment reading your post by Dr Emanuel to encourage moderation until reaching the latter portion which included a gratuitous cheap shot at Inhofe as being a scientific illiterate. Perhaps Inhofe is, but it is only with greatest difficulty that most of us can debate without someplace expressing feelings. Emanuel showed himself to be no exception. Most professional politicians are, in my opinion, not well informed about science. I regard a few of them to be notable exceptions such as Inhofe and Domenici. I'm well aware that others do not share my impression of Inhofe. These two politicians at least make some effort to listen and learn; which is more than can be said for most members of the House and the Senate. Look at Gore's movie product of his so-called study of the issues. I feel that Dr. Emanuel fails an attempt to promote moderation. If you would have the most serious, complete, and most scholarly scientific work that I have encountered yet regarding anthropogenic global warming, please see: EIRScience CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc. If you read this synthesis of available data. you will see that Dr. Jaworowski did not lightly reach the title of this paper. It is an extraordinarily thorough scientific document. If you would have moderation, see the Jaworowski paper. Best regards, Maury&Dog (Maury Siskel, maurysis at peoplepc.com) ======================= Ruth Sponsler wrote: >This list has become host to extremist >"all-or-nothing" viewpoints that paint climate >scientists as environmental extremists. > >I am quite disappointed about this, in light of the >fact that, today, in my state of North Carolina, Duke >Energy has just passed a milestone on its way to >possible new nuclear power construction, and has, in >fact, cited limitation of carbon dioxide emissions as >one (but not the only) justification for possible new >nuclear build. > >http://www.duke-energy.com/news/releases/2007032001.asp > >In its news release, Duke Energy said, >"The commission ruled that it is appropriate for the >utility to pursue the development of the project to >preserve nuclear generation as an option for >customers. The commission offered its general >assurance that such activities are appropriate. > >"While we continue to review the full order to >understand its implications, we are pleased with the >ruling and view it as an important show of support for >new nuclear generation to meet the growing needs of >customers in the Carolinas," said Ellen Ruff, >president of Duke Energy Carolinas. > >Nuclear generation has zero greenhouse gas emissions >and is a key part of Duke Energy Carolinas? plan to >reduce the carbon footprint of our generation >portfolio. > >.. "We also look forward to continuing to work with >the commission and lawmakers in both Carolinas to >facilitate construction of this important clean energy >source," she said." > >In addition, in a completely separate story, Anne >Lauvergeon of Electricite de France and former CIA >director John Deutch have said that the United States >should act to cap emissions of greenhouse gases or >risk losing global leadership. > >http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/19/business/green.php >.... > >But here on the list, these utility CEOs and leaders >are seen as just a bunch of people "duped" into >believing in a "hoax" perpetrated by "left-wing" >climatologists like MIT hurricane scientist Dr. Kerry >Emanuel: > >http://bostonreview.net/BR32.1/emanuel.html > >Dr. Emanuel criticizes the "Green" extremists for >their anti-nuclear views. > >It seems there is no room on this list for a centrist, >independent viewpoint between the extremes of the >anti-technology, anti-everything viewpoint of >Greenpeace (on the Left) and the "let's >release_unlimited_CO2_" viewpoint of Sen. James Inhofe >(on the Right). > >A political climate is dangerous when it allows no >room between extremes. > > >~Ruth Sponsler >http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast >with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. >http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > > From maurysis at peoplepc.com Wed Mar 21 05:39:16 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 04:39:16 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] 'Bacterial radioresistance' Message-ID: <46010B54.6050301@peoplepc.com> March 21, 2007 Researchers Uncover Protection Mechanism Of Radiation-resistant Bacterium Science Daily ? Results of a recent study titled ?Protein Oxidation Implicated as the Primary Determinant of Bacterial Radioresistance,? will be published in the March 20 edition of PLoS Biology. The study, headed by Michael J. Daly, Ph.D., associate professor at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences (USU), Department of Pathology, shows that the ability of the bacterium Deinococcus radiodurans to endure and survive enormous levels of ionizing radiation (X-rays and gamma-rays) relies on a powerful mechanism that protects proteins from oxidative damage during irradiation. Citation: Daly MJ, Gaidamakova EK, Matrosova VY, Vasilenko A, Zhai M, et al. (2007) Protein oxidation implicated as the primary determinant of bacterial radioresistance. PLoS Biol 5(4): e92. doi:10.1371/journal.pbio.0050092. From Andrew.Scott at amedd.army.mil Tue Mar 20 13:25:39 2007 From: Andrew.Scott at amedd.army.mil (Scott, Andrew L MAJ WRAMC-Wash DC) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:25:39 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Patient Dose during Lymphoscintigraphy using Tc-99m sulfur colloid Message-ID: <81F2F1043B799F47B6A4EFCF6F88F82A019C4538@AMEDMLNARMC134> ALL, Has anyone performed, and would be willing to share, a dose calculation for patients undergoing lymphoscintigraphy for rectal/colorectal cancer to localize the sentinal lymph node using Tc-99m sulfur colloid? I have information pertaining to breast cancer studies. Thanks for any relevant information. Andrew L. Scott Chief, Operations Branch Health Physics Office, WRAMC Office: 202-356-0061 DSN: 642-0061 Fax: 202-356-0086 From Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com Wed Mar 21 07:14:32 2007 From: Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com (Flanigan, Floyd) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:14:32 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <453309.23615.qm@web32509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7A9B2084CC9CEC45828E829CBF20D638013AB17B@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> Ruth, I am sorry to hear that we have come across as such. The issue, however, is not an all or nothing. It is truth. The truth is the truth. When someone tries to garner support from the scientific community (us) to support anything which can be clearly exposed as untrue, we respond accordingly. Although part and parcel of our employment is, in many cases, based on regulatory limit enforcement, the majority on this list have posted at one time or another that the limits for exposure are set far too low. This is, in its self, professional suicide in the long run for some, but it's the TRUTH. So on the subject of global warming, we may appear to be taking an extreme point of view, but in reality, we are simply supporting the truth. Building new nuclear power plants is a good idea with or without the carbon dioxide piece. Cost per kwhr alone supports it not to mention the hydrogen production which will be put to good use in the near future. Please don't lose faith in us Ruth. We are whiney, crotchety, silly and at times cruel ... but the one thing you can count on is that we will seek the right thing over self promotion on almost every occasion. Floyd W. Flanigan B.S.Nuc.H.P. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Ruth Sponsler Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:28 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism This list has become host to extremist "all-or-nothing" viewpoints that paint climate scientists as environmental extremists. I am quite disappointed about this, in light of the fact that, today, in my state of North Carolina, Duke Energy has just passed a milestone on its way to possible new nuclear power construction, and has, in fact, cited limitation of carbon dioxide emissions as one (but not the only) justification for possible new nuclear build. http://www.duke-energy.com/news/releases/2007032001.asp In its news release, Duke Energy said, "The commission ruled that it is appropriate for the utility to pursue the development of the project to preserve nuclear generation as an option for customers. The commission offered its general assurance that such activities are appropriate. "While we continue to review the full order to understand its implications, we are pleased with the ruling and view it as an important show of support for new nuclear generation to meet the growing needs of customers in the Carolinas," said Ellen Ruff, president of Duke Energy Carolinas. Nuclear generation has zero greenhouse gas emissions and is a key part of Duke Energy Carolinas' plan to reduce the carbon footprint of our generation portfolio. .. "We also look forward to continuing to work with the commission and lawmakers in both Carolinas to facilitate construction of this important clean energy source," she said." In addition, in a completely separate story, Anne Lauvergeon of Electricite de France and former CIA director John Deutch have said that the United States should act to cap emissions of greenhouse gases or risk losing global leadership. http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/19/business/green.php .... But here on the list, these utility CEOs and leaders are seen as just a bunch of people "duped" into believing in a "hoax" perpetrated by "left-wing" climatologists like MIT hurricane scientist Dr. Kerry Emanuel: http://bostonreview.net/BR32.1/emanuel.html Dr. Emanuel criticizes the "Green" extremists for their anti-nuclear views. It seems there is no room on this list for a centrist, independent viewpoint between the extremes of the anti-technology, anti-everything viewpoint of Greenpeace (on the Left) and the "let's release_unlimited_CO2_" viewpoint of Sen. James Inhofe (on the Right). A political climate is dangerous when it allows no room between extremes. ~Ruth Sponsler http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com Wed Mar 21 08:20:52 2007 From: Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com (Flanigan, Floyd) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 08:20:52 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The sky is falling! In-Reply-To: <4600676D.5020605@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <7A9B2084CC9CEC45828E829CBF20D638013AB17D@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> The sky fell here as well a couple of weeks ago in the form of 23 inches of snow. I've no idea why they refer to this as the 'Midwest'. The northern border of my state touches Canada for crying out loud. I took a few snow days. Not because I couldn't make it in to the office. That would have been easy. I just decided to take advantage of the chance to participate in it all rather than observing for a change. I, my Wife and our Jack Russell Terrier (Odd Job the eight pound fury) took several walks while the snow fell, out to the park and around the town and its many beautiful parks. The wind was near calm and the temperature was quite bearable and under these conditions, the whole of it all was refreshing. All things which normally stand out became muted by the alabaster blanket and the things which normally go unnoticed became wondrous and majestic. I was, in a word, recharged. I hope both of you have had a chance to do similar things of late. If not, I hope the opportunity presents its self soon. When it does, my advice would be, join in. I had forgotten why I do all I do. You get wrapped up thinking it's for the cars and the houses and the toys and the prestige. Then you realize you got into this line because you believed in something and you wanted to watch over it ... watch it grow ... ensure it was around for your kids to enjoy. Yup ... The sky falls now and again. But it's people like us who tell people why it fell. And then we figure out how to put it back. It's amazing ... when you get to the truth of the matter ... a great number of us on this line are environmentalists at heart. We've seen the strip mines and oil fields and we support a better way. And yet we are the ones the self-proclaimed 'tree huggers' focus on more often than not. Isn't it ironic? So ... keep your chin tucked and your left jab out there and keep fighting the good fight. I know I will. And let truth dictate direction. Floyd ________________________________ From: Maury Siskel [mailto:maurysis at peoplepc.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:00 PM To: Flanigan, Floyd Cc: jjcohen at prodigy.net; radsafe Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The sky is falling! Amen, Sir! The sky fell here last Thursday after I made a mistake on Wednesday. I'm taking a series of "observations" from my model (airplane) behavior in order to formulate scientific conclusions about the bees in my backyard and their effects on local climate. Please wait with your breath baited; later you might use the baited breath bubbles for a fishing trip! Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) _____________ Remain watchful: Dew is formed on leaves when the sun shines down on them and makes them perspire. ========================== Flanigan, Floyd wrote: There is, of course, something to be said for being fore-warned but, it is the motive of those doling out the warnings which interests me the most. Are they truly trying to be helpful or just to be 'right'? I could sit back and predict that every c ----------------snipped-------------- From jk5554 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 08:24:10 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 06:24:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <4600DFE2.9040508@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <567454.11815.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have enough general education from college to know about "evaluating sources," "EIR Review" in which this article is published is associated with Lyndon LaRouche, who is on the fringe of politics. http://www.larouchepub.com/ I really like Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski's articles on ionizing radiation and nuclear energy. However, there is a much better outlet for these articles than LaRouche Publications. Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a climatologist. I am not either. I tend to respect the opinions of climatologists like Dr. Kerry Emanuel, whom I cited in another mail. Let me make a note on another climatologist in the news lately. I believe that Dr. James Hansen has gone to extremes on the Left in his testimony before Congress. I can't support James Hansen's ideas and accusations. There is a difference between believing that certain climatologists like Hansen have strayed too far to the left...and believing in sites like http://www.larouchepub.com/ or http://www.junkscience.com/ Going back to choosing sources - I believe it's very important to note what legitimate, science-directed agencies like NOAA and the European Space Agency are finding in their research: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2007/feb/feb07.html http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM1DUQ08ZE_index_1.html#subhead1 As I've said before, it's important to be careful about extremes. The climate situation has certainly brought out the extremes both on the Left and the Right. ~Ruth Sponsler ===== > If you would have the most serious, complete, and > most scholarly > scientific work that I have encountered yet > regarding anthropogenic > global warming, please see: > > EIRScience > CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time > by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc. > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From lboing at anl.gov Wed Mar 21 10:59:24 2007 From: lboing at anl.gov (Boing, Lawrence E.) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:59:24 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Training requirements for Decommissioning Message-ID: <637FE1FE13221C4F8BFC590A42B8478946ED99@NE-EXCH.ne.anl.gov> Looking for any other 'equivalents' of the DOE "Decommissioning Competencies" requirement standard - in this case its DOE-STD-1166-2003 - that others are using out there in decommissioning space to ensure staff are properly qualified to oversee decommissioning work. Thanks. Larry Boing lboing at anl.gov Lawrence E. (Larry) Boing Argonne National Laboratory 9700 South Cass Avenue Argonne, IL 60439 http://www.dd.anl.gov/ http://www.orau.gov/ddsc/ From maurysis at peoplepc.com Wed Mar 21 12:31:10 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:31:10 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <567454.11815.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <567454.11815.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46016BDE.5000507@peoplepc.com> Sadly we retreat once more into the abyss of who funded or published the research and so on irrespective of the content of the paper. Perhaps for some, it is more important to be published in Science, Nature, or the NYTimes than to be concerned about the validity of content and the past soiled editorial records of these esteemed journals. The premier concerns of scientific research remain what problem(s) were put, how the research was done, how the data were analyzed, and what conclusions were drawn. I don't know what genre of scientist Jaworowski might be. One can judge for themselves from the bio below assuming (as I have) that it is not a fabrication. Even disregarding the defining work that he did on the health effects of Chernobyl, this referenced paper will speak for itself if one reviews it. The content of the paper, however, along with past work of the man should say much more than labels and other scarcely relevant political characteristics. Jaworowski bio furnished with the paper: "Zbigniew Jaworowski is a multidisciplinary scientist, now a senior advisor at the Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection in Warsaw. In the winter of 1957-58, he measured the concentration of CO2 in the atmospheric air at Spitsbergen. From 1972 to 1991, he investigated the history of the pollution of the global atmosphere, measuring the dust preserved in 17 glaciers: in the Tatra Mountains in Poland, in the Arctic, Antarctic, Alaska, Norway, the Alps, the Himalayas, the Ruwenzori Mountains in Uganda, and the Peruvian Andes. He has published many papers on climate, most of them concerning the CO2 measurements in ice cores. Two of his papers on climate appear on the website of 21st Century Science & Technology magazine, www.21stcenturysciencetech.com." Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) =================================== Ruth Sponsler wrote: > I have enough general education from college to know > about "evaluating sources," > > "EIR Review" in which this article is published is > associated with Lyndon LaRouche, who is on the fringe > of politics. > > http://www.larouchepub.com/ > > I really like Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski's articles on > ionizing radiation and nuclear energy. > > However, there is a much better outlet for these articles than > LaRouche Publications. > > Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a climatologist. I am not either. > > I tend to respect the opinions of climatologists like Dr. Kerry > Emanuel, whom I cited in another mail. > > Let me make a note on another climatologist in the news lately. I > believe that Dr. James Hansen has gone to extremes on the Left in his > testimony before Congress. I can't support James Hansen's ideas and > accusations. > > There is a difference between believing that certain > climatologists like Hansen have strayed too far to the left...and > believing in sites like > http://www.larouchepub.com/ or > http://www.junkscience.com/ > > Going back to choosing sources - I believe it's very important to note > what legitimate, science-directed > agencies like NOAA and the European Space Agency are finding in their > research: > > http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2007/feb/feb07.html > > http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM1DUQ08ZE_index_1.html#subhead1 > > As I've said before, it's important to be careful about extremes. The > climate situation has certainly > brought out the extremes both on the Left and the Right. > > ~Ruth Sponsler > > ===== > >> If you would have the most serious, complete, and most scholarly >> scientific work that I have encountered yet regarding anthropogenic >> global warming, please see: >> >> EIRScience >> CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time >> by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc. > From chaosforthefuture at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 11:32:32 2007 From: chaosforthefuture at yahoo.com (Peter Collopy) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards Message-ID: <914629.79151.qm@web61213.mail.yahoo.com> Here at RPI some enterprizing students are engaged in a design project to provide an interlock for access to our accelerator's target room. In an effort to resolve one issue with the design I am looking to identify any ANSI standard or similar standard that specifically addresses the design/safety components of any interlock used for accelerators, multicurie irradiation facilties, etc.. So any info is appreciated If you wish to reply to me directly use my RPI address at collop at rpi.edu Thanks in advance Pete C. Peter Collopy, CIH, CHP, CSP Director, Entropy Control Chaos for the Future 154 Third Street Troy, NY 12180 518.271.1420 --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. From sandyfl at cox.net Wed Mar 21 12:08:32 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:08:32 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards In-Reply-To: <914629.79151.qm@web61213.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6B9@gdses.corp.gds.com> Pete, This may be of use: N43.1 Radiological Safety in the Design & Operations of Particle Accelerators (Standard is under development.) Working Group Chair: Scott Walker, James Liu N43.3 General Radiation Safety Standard for Installations Using Non-Medical X-ray and Sealed Gamma Ray Sources, Energies up to 10 MeV (Standard under revision.) Working Group Chair: Scott Schwahn ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Peter Collopy Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:33 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards Here at RPI some enterprizing students are engaged in a design project to provide an interlock for access to our accelerator's target room. In an effort to resolve one issue with the design I am looking to identify any ANSI standard or similar standard that specifically addresses the design/safety components of any interlock used for accelerators, multicurie irradiation facilties, etc.. So any info is appreciated If you wish to reply to me directly use my RPI address at collop at rpi.edu Thanks in advance Pete C. Peter Collopy, CIH, CHP, CSP Director, Entropy Control Chaos for the Future 154 Third Street Troy, NY 12180 518.271.1420 --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jk5554 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 12:42:49 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <46016BDE.5000507@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <20070321174249.39347.qmail@web32512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dr. Jaworowski has 17 papers listed on a PubMed search. All of those papers concern measurement of radiation, radiation protection, and related topics. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed Only one paper is remotely relevant to climatology. It concerns 226Ra in contemporary and fossil snow. Given the pubs I found, I consider Dr. Jaworowski to be an authority on topics concerning radiation, Chernobyl etc., but I do not consider him an authority on climate. I am sort of wondering why Dr. Jaworowski decided to write a controversial article on climate change after writing some pretty decent papers in the area of his expertise, radiation. On the other side of the spectrum, Al Gore is showing his weakness in the area, by supporting Amory Lovins' silly ideas, rather than large-scale sources of CO2-free energy. Al Gore certainly isn't a climatologist. There are excellent critiques of Al Gore from fellow bloggers at NEI Nuclear Notes: http://neinuclearnotes.blogspot.com/search/label/Al%20Gore Sincerely - Ruth Sponsler --- Maury Siskel wrote: > Sadly we retreat once more into the abyss of who > funded or published the > research and so on irrespective of the content of > the paper. > > Perhaps for some, it is more important to be > published in Science, > Nature, or the NYTimes than to be concerned about > the validity of > content and the past soiled editorial records of > these esteemed > journals. The premier concerns of scientific > research remain what > problem(s) were put, how the research was done, how > the data were > analyzed, and what conclusions were drawn. > > I don't know what genre of scientist Jaworowski > might be. One can judge > for themselves from the bio below assuming (as I > have) that it is not a > fabrication. Even disregarding the defining work > that he did on the > health effects of Chernobyl, this referenced paper > will speak for itself > if one reviews it. The content of the paper, > however, along with past > work of the man should say much more than labels and > other scarcely > relevant political characteristics. > > Jaworowski bio furnished with the paper: > > "Zbigniew Jaworowski is a multidisciplinary > scientist, > now a senior advisor at the Central Laboratory for > Radiological Protection in Warsaw. In the winter of > 1957-58, he measured the concentration of CO2 in the > atmospheric air at Spitsbergen. From 1972 to 1991, > he > investigated the history of the pollution of the > global > atmosphere, measuring the dust preserved in 17 > glaciers: > in the Tatra Mountains in Poland, in the Arctic, > Antarctic, Alaska, Norway, the Alps, the Himalayas, > the Ruwenzori Mountains in Uganda, and the Peruvian > Andes. He has published many papers on climate, most > of them concerning the CO2 measurements in ice > cores. > Two of his papers on climate appear on the website > of > 21st Century Science & Technology magazine, > www.21stcenturysciencetech.com." > > Best, > Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) > =================================== > > Ruth Sponsler wrote: > > > I have enough general education from college to > know > > about "evaluating sources," > > > > "EIR Review" in which this article is published is > > associated with Lyndon LaRouche, who is on the > fringe > > of politics. > > > > http://www.larouchepub.com/ > > > > I really like Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski's articles > on > > ionizing radiation and nuclear energy. > > > > However, there is a much better outlet for these > articles than > > LaRouche Publications. > > > > Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a climatologist. I > am not either. > > > > I tend to respect the opinions of climatologists > like Dr. Kerry > > Emanuel, whom I cited in another mail. > > > > Let me make a note on another climatologist in the > news lately. I > > believe that Dr. James Hansen has gone to extremes > on the Left in his > > testimony before Congress. I can't support James > Hansen's ideas and > > accusations. > > > > There is a difference between believing that > certain > > climatologists like Hansen have strayed too far to > the left...and > > believing in sites like > > http://www.larouchepub.com/ or > > http://www.junkscience.com/ > > > > Going back to choosing sources - I believe it's > very important to note > > what legitimate, science-directed > > agencies like NOAA and the European Space Agency > are finding in their > > research: > > > > > http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2007/feb/feb07.html > > > > > http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM1DUQ08ZE_index_1.html#subhead1 > > > > As I've said before, it's important to be careful > about extremes. The > > climate situation has certainly > > brought out the extremes both on the Left and the > Right. > > > > ~Ruth Sponsler > > > > ===== > > > >> If you would have the most serious, complete, and > most scholarly > >> scientific work that I have encountered yet > regarding anthropogenic > >> global warming, please see: > >> > >> EIRScience > >> CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time > >> by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 From sandyfl at cox.net Wed Mar 21 12:54:25 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:54:25 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards In-Reply-To: <914629.79151.qm@web61213.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6BB@gdses.corp.gds.com> Pete, Some additional references that may be helpful (many of those in working group process are revisions to existing standards). N43.5 Radiation Safety for the Design of Radiographic & Radioscopic Industrial X-ray Equipment (Standard published 2005) K. Dieter Markert , John Taschner N43.7 Safe Design & Use of Self-contained, Dry Source Storage Gamma Irradiators (Category I) (Standard is under development.) Eric Beers N43.9 Radiological Safety for the Design & Construction of Apparatus for Gamma Radiography (Standard is under development.) R. D. (Donny) Dicharry N43.10 Safe Design & Use of Panoramic, Wet Source Storage Gamma Irradiators (Category IV) and Panoramic, Dry Source Storage Gamma Irradiators (Category II) (Standard distributed with a July 2001 HPS Newsletter as ANSI/HPS N43.10-2001.) Eric Beers, Vincent Foerst N43.11 Safe Operating Practice for Industrial X-ray Radiographic Equipment (Standard is under development.) William Morris, Maj. William Hoak ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Peter Collopy Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:33 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards Here at RPI some enterprizing students are engaged in a design project to provide an interlock for access to our accelerator's target room. In an effort to resolve one issue with the design I am looking to identify any ANSI standard or similar standard that specifically addresses the design/safety components of any interlock used for accelerators, multicurie irradiation facilties, etc.. So any info is appreciated If you wish to reply to me directly use my RPI address at collop at rpi.edu Thanks in advance Pete C. Peter Collopy, CIH, CHP, CSP Director, Entropy Control Chaos for the Future 154 Third Street Troy, NY 12180 518.271.1420 --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From hflong at pacbell.net Wed Mar 21 13:09:45 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] 'Bacterial radioresistance' In-Reply-To: <46010B54.6050301@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <20070321180945.51166.qmail@web83502.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> If biologic radiation defenses could be stimulated by some supplement (medicine) as it is by low dose radiation (~ 10 rem) it could be most valuable. Pollycove and Feinendigan have shown better longevity and cancer resistance with radiation hormesis. They attribute it to stimulation of biologic defenses. These bacteria seem to have developed it better, suggesting research for a mutation-muting radiation antioxidant. More exact detail of the mechanism should be forthcoming from this line of inquiry. Howard Long Maury Siskel wrote: March 21, 2007 Researchers Uncover Protection Mechanism Of Radiation-resistant Bacterium Science Daily ? Results of a recent study titled ?Protein Oxidation Implicated as the Primary Determinant of Bacterial Radioresistance,? will be published in the March 20 edition of PLoS Biology. The study, headed by Michael J. Daly, Ph.D., associate professor at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences (USU), Department of Pathology, shows that the ability of the bacterium Deinococcus radiodurans to endure and survive enormous levels of ionizing radiation (X-rays and gamma-rays) relies on a powerful mechanism that protects proteins from oxidative damage during irradiation. Citation: Daly MJ, Gaidamakova EK, Matrosova VY, Vasilenko A, Zhai M, et al. (2007) Protein oxidation implicated as the primary determinant of bacterial radioresistance. PLoS Biol 5(4): e92. doi:10.1371/journal.pbio.0050092. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From ronningen at nscl.msu.edu Wed Mar 21 14:14:50 2007 From: ronningen at nscl.msu.edu (Reg Ronningen) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:14:50 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards Message-ID: Pete, For those interested in this topic, please note there is a course titled "System Safety and Safety Systems for Accelerators" on the program of the next US Particle Accelerator School (the second week of June 4 - 15, 2007, Lansing, MI). The instructor is Kelly Mahoney (Jefferson Lab). For details, please see http://uspas.fnal.gov/ Reg Reginald M. Ronningen, Ph.D. Senior Physicist/Senior Liaison Physicist National Superconducting Cyclotron Laboratory Michigan State University N104 1 Cyclotron East Lansing, MI 48824-1321 USA Internet: Ronningen at nscl.msu.edu Telephone: (517) 333-6378 Fax: (517) 353-5967 -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Peter Collopy Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:33 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards Here at RPI some enterprizing students are engaged in a design project to provide an interlock for access to our accelerator's target room. In an effort to resolve one issue with the design I am looking to identify any ANSI standard or similar standard that specifically addresses the design/safety components of any interlock used for accelerators, multicurie irradiation facilties, etc.. So any info is appreciated If you wish to reply to me directly use my RPI address at collop at rpi.edu Thanks in advance Pete C. Peter Collopy, CIH, CHP, CSP Director, Entropy Control Chaos for the Future 154 Third Street Troy, NY 12180 518.271.1420 From terryj at iit.edu Wed Mar 21 14:44:03 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 14:44:03 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott Message-ID: Hi All, Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? Thanks, Jeff From ryoss at mcw.edu Wed Mar 21 15:05:03 2007 From: ryoss at mcw.edu (Yoss, Robert) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:05:03 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Authorities want to survey city radiation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3261933EB7678946A50C0314A1AAC07B0D91A21C@MCWMAIL.mcwcorp.net> Authorities want to survey city radiation By Mimi Hall, USA TODAY Homeland Security and Energy department leaders urge cities vulnerable to terrorism to undergo an inventory of all radioactive material within city limits, so authorities can detect "dirty bombs" terrorists might plant. Maps of each city would be created by a Department of Energy team that uses helicopters, small planes and ultrasensitive radiation detectors to pinpoint areas where radioactive materials are legitimately stored, such as hospitals and laboratories. With a baseline survey in hand, authorities could quickly check for new sources of radiation if intelligence suggests a terrorist is assembling a dirty bomb, in which radioactive material is mixed with explosives. Any new radiation blips on the survey could be flagged as potential rogues and investigated. Baseline surveys also could be used to guide cleanup crews to heavily radiated areas if a bomb is set off. The effort to convince dozens of cities to use federal anti-terrorism grant money to pay for the surveys will begin Thursday when officials from Homeland Security and the Energy Department's National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) travel to Illinois to meet with emergency responders from Chicago and Springfield. "We think this is a good idea" for all high-risk cities, says Vayl Oxford, head of Homeland Security's Domestic Nuclear Detection Office. So far, only New York City has decided to pay for a survey. That survey, done in 2005, cost $800,000. Last September, the Government Accountability Office took Homeland Security and Energy to task for failing to take responsibility for letting other cities know the surveys could be done. "There are significant benefits to conducting aerial background radiation surveys of U.S. cities," the GAO reported to Congress. The report found that neither Energy, which has the technical expertise and equipment to conduct the surveys, nor Homeland Security, which is responsible for protecting against terrorist attacks, accepted responsibility for getting the job done. Officials from both departments say they are now working together on the project. Debbie Wilber, director of the NNSA's Office of Emergency Response, says the survey team has helicopters and small planes outfitted with detectors. The team also uses handheld and backpack detectors and other mobile detectors that can be placed in cars and vans. The detectors are so sensitive that they can pick up small traces of radioactive iodine ingested by people being treated for thyroid cancer. Such minute traces can be filtered out if necessary. There are potential public health benefits to the surveys as well. In 2005, the New York survey found 80 unexpected "hot spots." Most posed no danger, but a public park on Staten Island that once was the site of an industrial plant had soil contaminated with "large quantities of radium," the GAO reported. The New York Police Department closed the park. Find this article at: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-03-15-radiation_N.htm?csp=34 Bob Yoss Radiation Safety Coordinator FMLH/MCW From ograabe at ucdavis.edu Wed Mar 21 16:08:07 2007 From: ograabe at ucdavis.edu (Otto G. Raabe) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:08:07 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200703212008.l2LK8UKL007517@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> At 11:44 AM 3/21/2007, Jeff Terry wrote: >Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? ***************************************************** March 21, 2007 Helen Caldicott, whom I have met personally and heard speak at an antinuclear event, has dedicated her life to attacking all nuclear technology. In her autobiography ("A Desperate Passion"), which I have read, she says she was frightened by a book called "On the Beach" by Neville Shute which she read when a teenager, and her whole career has been an extension that experience. Although she obtained a medical degree in Australia in her youth, she only attempted to practice medicine for a short time before embarking on her personal lifetime career to rid the world of all things nuclear. (She is about 70 years old.) She will twist any issue and exaggerate any risk to accomplish her purpose. But she has no training in and only very limited knowledge of radiobiology, radiation safety, nuclear physics, radiochemistry, or environmental biology. She claims that radiation risk is a medical issue and she can speak about it because she has a medical degree. I believe that HER REAL PURPOSE IS TO GET ATTENTION FOR HER ANTI-NUCLEAR CAUSE BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE! She will go to any extreme, make any scary claim, and pretend any authority of knowledge to accomplish her purpose. I do not believe that she is a reliable source of information about radiation risks or the possible medical effects of radiation. Otto ********************************************** Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP Center for Health & the Environment University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 *********************************************** From terryj at iit.edu Wed Mar 21 15:22:18 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:22:18 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: <200703212008.l2LK8UKL007517@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> References: <200703212008.l2LK8UKL007517@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Message-ID: <77C31CC0-AC4E-43C9-9640-C6149A020E16@iit.edu> Hi Otto, Thanks, I was going to be on a TV show with her in Chicago but they changed the segment so it will just be her with no counterpoint. So unfortunately, I won't have a chance to rebut what she has to say. Thanks, Jeff On Mar 21, 2007, at 4:08 PM, Otto G. Raabe wrote: > At 11:44 AM 3/21/2007, Jeff Terry wrote: >> Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? > ***************************************************** > March 21, 2007 > > Helen Caldicott, whom I have met personally and heard speak at an > antinuclear event, has dedicated her life to attacking all nuclear > technology. In her autobiography ("A Desperate Passion"), which I > have read, she says she was frightened by a book called "On the > Beach" by Neville Shute which she read when a teenager, and her > whole career has been an extension that experience. Although she > obtained a medical degree in Australia in her youth, she only > attempted to practice medicine for a short time before embarking on > her personal lifetime career to rid the world of all things > nuclear. (She is about 70 years old.) She will twist any issue and > exaggerate any risk to accomplish her purpose. But she has no > training in and only very limited knowledge of radiobiology, > radiation safety, nuclear physics, radiochemistry, or environmental > biology. She claims that radiation risk is a medical issue and she > can speak about it because she has a medical degree. I believe that > HER REAL PURPOSE IS TO GET ATTENTION FOR HER ANTI-NUCLEAR CAUSE BY > ANY MEANS POSSIBLE! She will go to any extreme, make any scary > claim, and pretend any authority of knowledge to accomplish her > purpose. I do not believe that she is a reliable source of > information about radiation risks or the possible medical effects > of radiation. > > Otto > > ********************************************** > Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP > Center for Health & the Environment > University of California > One Shields Avenue > Davis, CA 95616 > E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu > Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 > *********************************************** From maurysis at peoplepc.com Wed Mar 21 16:54:41 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:54:41 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Authorities want to survey city radiation In-Reply-To: <3261933EB7678946A50C0314A1AAC07B0D91A21C@MCWMAIL.mcwcorp.net> References: <3261933EB7678946A50C0314A1AAC07B0D91A21C@MCWMAIL.mcwcorp.net> Message-ID: <4601A9A1.2070400@peoplepc.com> 'Waste not -- want not': The motto of absolutely no government agency whatsoever. Sigh ........... Maury&Dog ============================== Yoss, Robert wrote: >Authorities want to survey city radiation > >By Mimi Hall, USA TODAY > >Homeland Security and Energy department leaders urge cities vulnerable to terrorism to undergo an inventory of all radioactive material within city limits, so authorities can detect "dirty bombs" terrorists might >plant. > >Maps of each city would be created by a Department of Energy team that uses helicopters, small planes and ultrasensitive radiation detectors to >-----------------snipped------------ > From jk5554 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 17:18:05 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: <77C31CC0-AC4E-43C9-9640-C6149A020E16@iit.edu> Message-ID: <70510.18400.qm@web32507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Jeff - There is a good set of rebuttals of Helen Caldicott at this link: http://search.blogger.com/?q=helen+caldicott+blogurl%3Aneinuclearnotes.blogspot.com&btnG=Search+Blogs&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&x=55&y=4&ui=blg I believe that you have a case to request an equal-time rebuttal. The fact that the show intends to feature *only* Helen Caldicott, with *no* counterpoint demonstrates anti-nuclear bias on the part of the media. ~Ruth Sponsler http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/ --- Jeff Terry wrote: > Hi Otto, > > Thanks, > > I was going to be on a TV show with her in Chicago > but they changed > the segment so it will just be her with no > counterpoint. So > unfortunately, I won't have a chance to rebut what > she has to say. > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > On Mar 21, 2007, at 4:08 PM, Otto G. Raabe wrote: > > > At 11:44 AM 3/21/2007, Jeff Terry wrote: > >> Could someone give me some background information > on Helen Caldicott? > > > ***************************************************** > > March 21, 2007 > > > > Helen Caldicott, whom I have met personally and > heard speak at an > > antinuclear event, has dedicated her life to > attacking all nuclear > > technology. In her autobiography ("A Desperate > Passion"), which I > > have read, she says she was frightened by a book > called "On the > > Beach" by Neville Shute which she read when a > teenager, and her > > whole career has been an extension that > experience. Although she > > obtained a medical degree in Australia in her > youth, she only > > attempted to practice medicine for a short time > before embarking on > > her personal lifetime career to rid the world of > all things > > nuclear. (She is about 70 years old.) She will > twist any issue and > > exaggerate any risk to accomplish her purpose. But > she has no > > training in and only very limited knowledge of > radiobiology, > > radiation safety, nuclear physics, radiochemistry, > or environmental > > biology. She claims that radiation risk is a > medical issue and she > > can speak about it because she has a medical > degree. I believe that > > HER REAL PURPOSE IS TO GET ATTENTION FOR HER > ANTI-NUCLEAR CAUSE BY > > ANY MEANS POSSIBLE! She will go to any extreme, > make any scary > > claim, and pretend any authority of knowledge to > accomplish her > > purpose. I do not believe that she is a reliable > source of > > information about radiation risks or the possible > medical effects > > of radiation. > > > > Otto > > > > ********************************************** > > Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP > > Center for Health & the Environment > > University of California > > One Shields Avenue > > Davis, CA 95616 > > E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu > > Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 > > *********************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front From terryj at iit.edu Wed Mar 21 18:10:44 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:10:44 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: <70510.18400.qm@web32507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <70510.18400.qm@web32507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Ruth, I will pester them. The Public Broadcasting Service is usually better in that regard. I think that it was more about timing rather than bias in this case. Whenever a Chicago station wants a speaker, they start with the usual cast of characters. The usual players don't have nuclear groups so couldn't provide anyone. By the time that they got around to IIT is was Tuesday. On Tuesday, I was in D. C. at the University NERI meeting. I should learn not to turn off my phone in those meetings. Wow, was that an interesting meeting as an aside. The TV people finally contacted me today so I started preparing and was just leaving for the studio when they called and cancelled saying that it was too late to get me on. Maybe next time. Jeff On Mar 21, 2007, at 5:18 PM, Ruth Sponsler wrote: > Hello Jeff - > > There is a good set of rebuttals of Helen Caldicott at > this link: > > http://search.blogger.com/?q=helen+caldicott+blogurl% > 3Aneinuclearnotes.blogspot.com&btnG=Search > +Blogs&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&x=55&y=4&ui=blg > > I believe that you have a case to request an > equal-time rebuttal. > > The fact that the show intends to feature *only* Helen > Caldicott, with *no* counterpoint demonstrates > anti-nuclear bias on the part of the media. > > ~Ruth Sponsler > http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/ > From radproject at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 21 18:34:49 2007 From: radproject at sbcglobal.net (stewart farber) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:34:49 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott [ Ombudsman access ] References: <70510.18400.qm@web32507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007101c76c11$8486f770$0202a8c0@YOUR7C60552B9E> Hi Jeff [and others wanting to attempt to ensure balanced coverage of any issue], Keep in mind that every "news" outlet has someone on staff designated by their organization to serve as their "ombudsman". Don't be reluctant to call and discuss your concerns with this individual. I have found such a discussion often results in the opportunity to express an alternate point of view as with space for an "op-ed" column for print media, or other reply possibilities for broadcast media such as TV or radio. If any particular media outlet regulated by the FCC fails to correct errors of fact or emphasis, or to provide balanced coverage, this failing can be brought up at the annual review of its license by the FCC of a TV or radio station being allowed to broadcast [at least that was how it was handled some years ago] when it solicits public input on the stations performance during the previous period of its operation. Stewart Farber, MS Public Health Consulting Scientist Farber Technical Services 1285 Wood Ave. Bridgeport, CT 06604 [203] 441-8433 [office] email: radproject at sbcglobal.net ===================================== Jeff Terry wrote: Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott > Hi Ruth, > > I will pester them. The Public Broadcasting Service is usually better in > that regard. I think that it was more about timing rather than bias in > this case. > > Whenever a Chicago station wants a speaker, they start with the usual > cast of characters. The usual players don't have nuclear groups so > couldn't provide anyone. By the time that they got around to IIT is was > Tuesday. > > On Tuesday, I was in D. C. at the University NERI meeting. I should learn > not to turn off my phone in those meetings. Wow, was that an interesting > meeting as an aside. > > The TV people finally contacted me today so I started preparing and was > just leaving for the studio when they called and cancelled saying that it > was too late to get me on. > > Maybe next time. > > Jeff > > On Mar 21, 2007, at 5:18 PM, Ruth Sponsler wrote: > >> Hello Jeff - >> >> There is a good set of rebuttals of Helen Caldicott at >> this link: >> >> http://search.blogger.com/?q=helen+caldicott+blogurl% >> 3Aneinuclearnotes.blogspot.com&btnG=Search >> +Blogs&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&x=55&y=4&ui=blg >> >> I believe that you have a case to request an >> equal-time rebuttal. >> >> The fact that the show intends to feature *only* Helen >> Caldicott, with *no* counterpoint demonstrates >> anti-nuclear bias on the part of the media. >> >> ~Ruth Sponsler >> http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 3/21/2007 From tom.odou at unlv.edu Wed Mar 21 18:46:10 2007 From: tom.odou at unlv.edu (tom.odou at unlv.edu) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:46:10 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RANDAM Scintillation counter In-Reply-To: <007101c76c11$8486f770$0202a8c0@YOUR7C60552B9E> Message-ID: We have a RANDAM scintillation counter model 918-4, it also has some writing on top (SC-4). Does anyone have a manual for this device? Thanks, Thomas J. O'Dou, CHP Radiation Laboratory Director Harry Reid Center for Environmental Studies University of Nevada Las Vegas 702-895-5540 702-985-5547 (cell) From hise at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 21 18:48:43 2007 From: hise at sbcglobal.net (Ed Hiserodt) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:48:43 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <027701c76c13$763cc120$6420a8c0@pumpconbsflye1> Hello Jeff -- If you like John Gofman, you'll love Helen Caldicott. She was one of Petr Beckmann's most unfavorite persons. In fact he mentions her over 100 times in Access to Energy while he was still alive. She wrote "Nuclear Madness" and was the founder of Physicians for Social Responsibility. As a member of the US Peace Council she visited the USSR on several occasions where there was much mutual fawning. Some of the quotes Beckmann attributes to her include: "The difference between nuclear reactors and bombs is mostly psychological." "The Russians are OK to work with...the US has many military bases around the world whereas Russia does not." "Uranium is thalidomide forever." And my personal favorite: "The nuclear arms race is a case of missile envy stemming from an inadequate male sexual complex on the part of world leaders." Don't think I'd want a "counterpoint" if I were her. Ed Hiserodt -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Jeff Terry Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:44 PM To: radsafe Radsafe Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott Hi All, Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? Thanks, Jeff _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 19:14:09 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] MIT: Lack of fuel may limit US nuclear power expansion Message-ID: <387932.92572.qm@web81606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Public release date: 21-Mar-2007 Contact: Elizabeth Thomson thomson at mit.edu 617-258-5402 Massachusetts Institute of Technology MIT: Lack of fuel may limit US nuclear power expansion CAMBRIDGE, Mass.--Limited supplies of fuel for nuclear power plants may thwart the renewed and growing interest in nuclear energy in the United States and other nations, says an MIT expert on the industry. Over the past 20 years, safety concerns dampened all aspects of development of nuclear energy: No new reactors were ordered and there was investment neither in new uranium mines nor in building facilities to produce fuel for existing reactors. Instead, the industry lived off commercial and government inventories, which are now nearly gone. worldwide, uranium production meets only about 65 percent of current reactor requirements. That shortage of uranium and of processing facilities worldwide leaves a gap between the potential increase in demand for nuclear energy and the ability to supply fuel for it, said Dr. Thomas Neff, a research affiliate at MIT's Center for International Studies. ?Just as large numbers of new reactors are being planned, we are only starting to emerge from 20 years of underinvestment in the production capacity for the nuclear fuel to operate them. There has been a nuclear industry myopia; they didn't take a long-term view,? Neff said. For example, only a few years ago uranium inventories were being sold at $10 per pound; the current price is $85 per pound. Neff has been giving a series of talks at industry meetings and investment conferences around the world about the nature of the fuel supply problem and its implications for the so-called ?nuclear renaissance,? pointing out both the sharply rising cost of nuclear fuel and the lack of capacity to produce it. Currently, much of the uranium used by the United States is coming from mines in such countries as Australia, Canada, Namibia, and, most recently, Kazakhstan. Small amounts are mined in the western United States, but the United States is largely reliant on overseas supplies. The United States also relies for half its fuel on Russia under a ?swords to ploughshares? deal that Neff originated in 1991. This deal is converting about 20,000 Russian nuclear weapons to fuel for U.S. nuclear power plants, but it ends in 2013, leaving a substantial supply gap for the United States. Further, China, India, and even Russia have plans for massive deployments of nuclear power and are trying to lock up supplies from countries on which the United States has traditionally relied. As a result, the United States could be the ?last one to buy, and it could pay the highest prices, if it can get uranium at all,? Neff said. ?The take-home message is that if we're going to increase use of nuclear power, we need massive new investments in capacity to mine uranium and facilities to process it.? Mined uranium comes in several forms, or isotopes. For starting a nuclear chain reaction in a reactor, the only important isotope is uranium-235, which accounts for JUST 7 out of 1000 atoms in the mined product. To fuel a nuclear reactor, the concentration of uranium-235 has to be increased to 40 to 50 out of 1000 atoms. This is done by separating isotopes in an enrichment plant to achieve the higher concentration. As Neff points out, reactor operators could increase the amount of fuel made from a given amount of natural uranium by buying more enrichment services to recover more uranium-235 atoms. Current enrichment capacity is enough to recover only about 4 out of 7 uranium-235 atoms. Limited uranium supplies could be stretched if industry could recover 5 or 6 of these atoms, but there is not enough processing capacity worldwide to do so. ### --------------------------------- --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. From jaro-10kbq at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 21 19:22:34 2007 From: jaro-10kbq at sympatico.ca (Jaro) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:22:34 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] MIT: Lack of fuel may limit US nuclear power expansion In-Reply-To: <387932.92572.qm@web81606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Further on this subject..... http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/business/story.html?id=553ebd57-1 cc0-49b7-b059-c15c70a34da4 Uranium is a hot commodity survey: Expenditures UP. More than 350 projects under way across Canada LYNN MOORE, The Gazette, Tuesday, March 20, 2007 Uranium is re-emerging as a star mineral commodity, according to the latest survey of mineral exploration and mine development expenditures compiled by Natural Resources Canada. Uranium-related expenditures doubled from 2005, reaching $190 million in 2006, with more than 350 projects under way across Canada, according to the survey. And indications are that exploration expenditures for all mineral and metal commodities will approach $2 billion in 2007. The Survey of Mineral Exploration, Deposit Appraisal and Mine Complex Development Expenditures reviewed 2006 preliminary estimates and 2007 spending intentions of about 734 project operators. In 2006, total expenditures reached $1.7 billion, up 32 per cent from $1.3 billion in 2005. Sustained high commodity prices and a favourable investment climate contributed to those total expenditures surpassing $1 billion for four consecutive years, the report said. Nickel prices increased by more than 150 per cent in 2006, zinc by more than 125 per cent and uranium by nearly 100 per cent. Gold and silver were up by nearly 20 per cent and 43 per cent, respectively. Spending intentions for operations in Quebec during 2007 are pegged at just over $293 million. Preliminary estimates for 2006 spending is about $260 million, up from $205 million in 2005. Junior exploration companies continue to be a major force in the sector, the survey found. Total expenditures for junior project operators have increased from $14 million in 1999 to $1.1 billion in 2006. And juniors are now responsible for more than 60 per cent of the total exploration and deposit appraisal expenditures. Expenditures for each commodity group, except coal, increased over 2005. In 2006, all jurisdictions, except Manitoba, saw increases in expenditures, with the largest gains being experienced in Saskatchewan - the leading jurisdiction for uranium expenditures - British Columbia and Quebec. lmoore at thegazette.canwest.com ===================================== -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl]On Behalf Of ROY HERREN Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:14 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] MIT: Lack of fuel may limit US nuclear power expansion Public release date: 21-Mar-2007 Contact: Elizabeth Thomson thomson at mit.edu 617-258-5402 Massachusetts Institute of Technology MIT: Lack of fuel may limit US nuclear power expansion CAMBRIDGE, Mass.--Limited supplies of fuel for nuclear power plants may thwart the renewed and growing interest in nuclear energy in the United States and other nations, says an MIT expert on the industry. Over the past 20 years, safety concerns dampened all aspects of development of nuclear energy: No new reactors were ordered and there was investment neither in new uranium mines nor in building facilities to produce fuel for existing reactors. Instead, the industry lived off commercial and government inventories, which are now nearly gone. worldwide, uranium production meets only about 65 percent of current reactor requirements. That shortage of uranium and of processing facilities worldwide leaves a gap between the potential increase in demand for nuclear energy and the ability to supply fuel for it, said Dr. Thomas Neff, a research affiliate at MIT's Center for International Studies. ?Just as large numbers of new reactors are being planned, we are only starting to emerge from 20 years of underinvestment in the production capacity for the nuclear fuel to operate them. There has been a nuclear industry myopia; they didn't take a long-term view,? Neff said. For example, only a few years ago uranium inventories were being sold at $10 per pound; the current price is $85 per pound. Neff has been giving a series of talks at industry meetings and investment conferences around the world about the nature of the fuel supply problem and its implications for the so-called ?nuclear renaissance,? pointing out both the sharply rising cost of nuclear fuel and the lack of capacity to produce it. Currently, much of the uranium used by the United States is coming from mines in such countries as Australia, Canada, Namibia, and, most recently, Kazakhstan. Small amounts are mined in the western United States, but the United States is largely reliant on overseas supplies. The United States also relies for half its fuel on Russia under a ?swords to ploughshares? deal that Neff originated in 1991. This deal is converting about 20,000 Russian nuclear weapons to fuel for U.S. nuclear power plants, but it ends in 2013, leaving a substantial supply gap for the United States. Further, China, India, and even Russia have plans for massive deployments of nuclear power and are trying to lock up supplies from countries on which the United States has traditionally relied. As a result, the United States could be the ?last one to buy, and it could pay the highest prices, if it can get uranium at all,? Neff said. ?The take-home message is that if we're going to increase use of nuclear power, we need massive new investments in capacity to mine uranium and facilities to process it.? Mined uranium comes in several forms, or isotopes. For starting a nuclear chain reaction in a reactor, the only important isotope is uranium-235, which accounts for JUST 7 out of 1000 atoms in the mined product. To fuel a nuclear reactor, the concentration of uranium-235 has to be increased to 40 to 50 out of 1000 atoms. This is done by separating isotopes in an enrichment plant to achieve the higher concentration. As Neff points out, reactor operators could increase the amount of fuel made from a given amount of natural uranium by buying more enrichment services to recover more uranium-235 atoms. Current enrichment capacity is enough to recover only about 4 out of 7 uranium-235 atoms. Limited uranium supplies could be stretched if industry could recover 5 or 6 of these atoms, but there is not enough processing capacity worldwide to do so. ### --------------------------------- --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 3/21/2007 7:52 AM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 3/21/2007 7:52 AM From sjd at swcp.com Wed Mar 21 21:48:58 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:48:58 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <453309.23615.qm@web32509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070321194426.009fee30@mail.swcp.com> March 21 Ruth Sponsler wrote: "This list has become host to extremist 'all-or-nothing' viewpoints that paint climate scientists as environmental extremists." Also (referring to Duke Energy and two other parties): "But here on the list, these utility CEOs and leaders are seen as just a bunch of people 'duped' into believing in a 'hoax' perpetrated by 'left-wing' climatologists like MIT hurricane scientist Dr. Kerry Emanuel: http://bostonreview.net/BR32.1/emanuel.html Dr. Emanuel criticizes the 'Green' extremists for their anti-nuclear views. "It seems there is no room on this list for a centrist, independent viewpoint between the extremes of the anti-technology, anti-everything viewpoint of Greenpeace (on the Left) and the 'let's release_unlimited_CO2_' viewpoint of Sen. James Inhofe (on the Right). A political climate is dangerous when it allows no room between extremes." (Did Sen. Inhofe actually say this, or is this the hyperbole of one of his detractors?) In another posting, Ruth wrote: "As I've said before, it's important to be careful about extremes. The climate situation has certainly brought out the extremes both on the Left and the Right." I think I have read all the messages in these global warming threads and I don't see anyone painting climate scientists as extremists. Regardless of who has said what about whom, since you Ruth think RADSAFE has become host to a bunch of 'extremist viewpoints,' what do you think is a non-extremist viewpoint? Or, to use your expression, what is a "centrist, independent viewpoint"? And "independent" of what? Industrialists? Greens? Democrats? Republicans? Orthodox science? Un-orthodox science? Independent of data? "Independent" of what? Please justify your position from both the scientific and philosophical perspective. As far as labeling people is concerned, I don't recall hearing that anyone had been 'duped' into anything, nor do I recall anyone being called a 'left-wing' climatologist. I can recall Dr. Kerry Emanuel calling Sen. Inhofe a scientific illiterate, though. Isn't waving around the labels right and left wing a waste of time anyway? It proves nothing and accomplishes nothing (unless someone thinks being divisive is salutary, and I certainly hope no one here thinks divisiveness is salutary). Instead of trying to decide who is on what wing, let's talk about the science, and about what is known to be true. This link < http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html> was posted yesterday. According to the material on this page (or links within it), the role of water vapor has been utterly ignored by global warming proponents (GWPs). This is despite the fact that water vapor accounts for some 95% of greenhouse gases, and that only about one percent of water vapor is anthropogenic. At the same time, GWPs are moaning and groaning about CO2. According to the above link, 186 billion tons of CO2 are produced every year. Six billion of these tons are man-made a mere three percent. The other 97% comes from natural biological processes in the ocean, and from decaying plant matter. As can plainly be seen, the human contribution to greenhouse gases is insignificant. In light of all this, would it be correct to say that blaming global warming on man-made greenhouse gases is an "extremist" position? What do you think? Ruth? Anyone? As far as being "careful about extremes" is concerned, what is this supposed to mean? As a hypothetical proposal, let's assume it is eventually and conclusively shown that humans can do nothing either way to influence global warming. Would that be an extreme position, and if so, how would we go about being careful about it? Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com From sjd at swcp.com Wed Mar 21 22:01:17 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:01:17 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070321195914.009f6a50@mail.swcp.com> March 21 Obtain a copy of "The War Against the Atom" by Samuel McCracken (Basic Books) and check the index for page numbers. McCracken has quite a bit to say about Caldicott, based on his having observed her in action. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 02:44 PM 3/21/07 -0500, Jeff Terry wrote: >Hi All, > >Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? > >Thanks, > >Jeff From HHedge at GeoSyntec.com Wed Mar 21 21:26:19 2007 From: HHedge at GeoSyntec.com (HHedge at GeoSyntec.com) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 22:26:19 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A15A863AF0A494E83F66199C7D1ECF32BDB25@exchange-01.GeoSyntec.net> The IAEA has also published some relevant documents on interlocks. Radiation Protection in the Design of Radiotherapy Facilities, Safety Reports Series No. 47 Radiological Safety Aspects of the Operation of Proton Accelerators, Technical Reports Series No. 283 Radiological Safety Aspects of the Operation of Electron Linear Accelerators, Technical Reports Series No. 188 Unfortunately, their website only has Safety Reports Series No. 47 available online. Harold Hedge, RRPT Radiological Laboratory Manager GSM Consultancy (M) Sdn. Bhd. Tel: +60 5 3233137 From sjd at swcp.com Wed Mar 21 22:45:15 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:45:15 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <453309.23615.qm@web32509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070321204335.009f3aa0@mail.swcp.com> March 21 Ruth Sponsler wrote: "In addition, in a completely separate story, Anne Lauvergeon of Electricite de France and former CIA director John Deutch have said that the United States should act to cap emissions of greenhouse gases or risk losing global leadership. http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/19/business/green.php ...." She also appeared to scoff at Jaworowski for not being a climatologist ("Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a climatologist."). What are Deutch's credentials as a climatologist? The above linked article (from the International Herald Tribune) calls Deutch an "energy specialist" who is now a professor at MIT. WHAT is an "energy specialist" and why did the IHT conveniently forget to tell us what Deutch is professing? The article also says, "Deutch advocated an additional tax of about $1 a gallon, or 26 cents a liter, on gasoline, diesel fuel and other petroleum products in the United States, coupled with a tightening of fuel economy standards for U.S. car manufacturers, to encourage fuel efficiency and damp demand, while recognizing that such a move would be politically difficult." Note that he only wants to beat up on US taxpayers and US car manufacturers. What's with that? No one else in the world drives cars or manufactures them? Furthermore, Anne Lauvergeon of Electricite de France did not endorse capping emissions, nor did she peddle that nonsense about the US "losing global leadership." That was all from the "energy specialist." Tacked on at the end of the article we read this: "While Deutch placed great expectations on carbon capture and sequestration technology to reduce emissions from coal-fired power stations, notably in China, a parallel report to the Trilateral Commission by a French energy executive, Anne Lauvergeon, cast doubt on that solution. "Lauvergeon, chief executive of Areva, which builds nuclear power stations, said the capture and storage of carbon emitted through the burning of fossil fuels was too often presented as a miracle solution. "This technology would 'not play a significant role in the limitation of carbon emissions for half a century,' she wrote." If anything, Lauvergeon is opposing Deutch's proposals. (Is she an extremist too, or is Deutch the extremist for only wanting to tax US citizens and only wanting to push around US auto manufacturers?) Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com From jk5554 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 22:19:16 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070321204335.009f3aa0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <414605.6594.qm@web32504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Correction. It was lowly ol' me who wrote that "Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a > climatologist." Something got lost in the quotations. --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 21 > > Ruth Sponsler wrote: > > "In addition, in a completely separate story, Anne > Lauvergeon of > Electricite de France and former CIA director John > Deutch have said that > the United States should act to cap emissions of > greenhouse gases or risk > losing global > leadership. > http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/19/business/green.php > ...." > > She also appeared to scoff at Jaworowski > for not being a > climatologist ("Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a > climatologist."). > > What are Deutch's credentials as a > climatologist? > > The above linked article (from the > International Herald Tribune) > calls Deutch an "energy specialist" who is now a > professor at MIT. WHAT is > an "energy specialist" and why did the IHT > conveniently forget to tell us > what Deutch is professing? > > The article also says, "Deutch advocated an > additional tax of > about $1 a gallon, or 26 cents a liter, on gasoline, > diesel fuel and other > petroleum products in the United States, coupled > with a tightening of fuel > economy standards for U.S. car manufacturers, to > encourage fuel efficiency > and damp demand, while recognizing that such a move > would be politically > difficult." > > Note that he only wants to beat up on US > taxpayers and US car > manufacturers. What's with that? No one else in > the world drives cars or > manufactures them? > > Furthermore, Anne Lauvergeon of Electricite > de France did not > endorse capping emissions, nor did she peddle that > nonsense about the US > "losing global leadership." That was all from the > "energy specialist." > > Tacked on at the end of the article we read > this: > > "While Deutch placed great expectations on > carbon capture and > sequestration technology to reduce emissions from > coal-fired power > stations, notably in China, a parallel report to the > Trilateral Commission > by a French energy executive, Anne Lauvergeon, cast > doubt on that solution. > > "Lauvergeon, chief executive of Areva, which builds > nuclear power stations, > said the capture and storage of carbon emitted > through the burning of > fossil fuels was too often presented as a miracle > solution. > > "This technology would 'not play a significant role > in the limitation of > carbon emissions for half a century,' she wrote." > > If anything, Lauvergeon is opposing > Deutch's proposals. (Is she > an extremist too, or is Deutch the extremist for > only wanting to tax US > citizens and only wanting to push around US auto > manufacturers?) > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From jk5554 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 22:43:06 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070321204335.009f3aa0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <456220.95637.qm@web32515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Anne Lauvergeon is a person whom I respect. I tried to communicate my respect for her but obviously did not do that very well. I agree with Anne Lauvergeon that carbon sequestration is an unproven technology. John Deutch is a former director of the U.S. CIA. The level of rhetoric on this list has become so intolerable that I have about *had it.* People are tied to a belief that the climate scientists who are doing work relating to AGW have a hidden anti-industrial agenda. I repeatedly emphasized Dr. Kerry Emanuel's endorsement of nuclear energfy in "Phaeton's Reins" in an _attempt to disprove this notion_, at least among the more considerate and intelligent climatologists. In fact, it is the Amory Lovins's and Greenpeaces of the world who have hijacked the work of climate scientists to promote their windmill/solar pabnel agenda. Al Gore is not helping because he is tying himself to Amory Lovins' agenda. Yet, instead of acknowledging ANY of my criticisms of Al Gore and the "environmental movement," there is nothing but criticism. It's obvious that my "ideological purity" isn't good enough for this list because I have not endorsed "global warming skeptic" articles that appear at sites like http://www.junkscience.com and http://www.larouchepub.com rather than at mainstream science sites like http://www.noaa.gov/ . As a result, I'm unsubscribing from Radsafe. Sincerely, Ruth Sponsler ============================================== Once again, here are Dr. Kerry Emanuel's words on the politics of climate change (mentioning nuclear energy): ===== QUOTE "Especially in the United States, the political debate about global climate change became polarized along the conservative?liberal axis some decades ago. Although we take this for granted now, it is not entirely obvious why the chips fell the way they did. One can easily imagine conservatives embracing the notion of climate change in support of actions they might like to see anyway. Conservatives have usually been strong supporters of nuclear power, and few can be happy about our current dependence on foreign oil. The United States is renowned for its technological innovation and should be at an advantage in making money from any global sea change in energy-producing technology: consider the prospect of selling new means of powering vehicles and electrical generation to China?s rapidly expanding economy. But none of this has happened. Paradoxes abound on the political left as well. A meaningful reduction in greenhouse-gas emissions will require a shift in the means of producing energy, as well as conservation measures. But such alternatives as nuclear and wind power are viewed with deep ambivalence by the left. Senator Kennedy, by most measures our most liberal senator, is strongly opposed to a project to develop wind energy near his home in Hyannis, and environmentalists have only just begun to rethink their visceral opposition to nuclear power. Had it not been for green opposition, the United States today might derive most of its electricity from nuclear power, as does France; thus the environmentalists must accept a large measure of responsibility for today?s most critical environmental problem. There are other obstacles to taking a sensible approach to the climate problem. We have preciously few representatives in Congress with a background or interest in science, and some of them display an active contempt for the subject. As long as we continue to elect scientific illiterates like James Inhofe, who believes global warming to be a hoax, we will lack the ability to engage in intelligent debate. Scientists are most effective when they provide sound, impartial advice, but their reputation for impartiality is severely compromised by the shocking lack of political diversity among American academics, who suffer from the kind of group-think that develops in cloistered cultures. Until this profound and well documented intellectual homogeneity changes, scientists will be suspected of constituting a leftist think tank. " END QUOTE ========================== --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 21 > > Ruth Sponsler wrote: > > "In addition, in a completely separate story, Anne > Lauvergeon of > Electricite de France and former CIA director John > Deutch have said that > the United States should act to cap emissions of > greenhouse gases or risk > losing global > leadership. > http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/19/business/green.php > ...." > > She also appeared to scoff at Jaworowski > for not being a > climatologist ("Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a > climatologist."). > > What are Deutch's credentials as a > climatologist? > > The above linked article (from the > International Herald Tribune) > calls Deutch an "energy specialist" who is now a > professor at MIT. WHAT is > an "energy specialist" and why did the IHT > conveniently forget to tell us > what Deutch is professing? > > The article also says, "Deutch advocated an > additional tax of > about $1 a gallon, or 26 cents a liter, on gasoline, > diesel fuel and other > petroleum products in the United States, coupled > with a tightening of fuel > economy standards for U.S. car manufacturers, to > encourage fuel efficiency > and damp demand, while recognizing that such a move > would be politically > difficult." > > Note that he only wants to beat up on US > taxpayers and US car > manufacturers. What's with that? No one else in > the world drives cars or > manufactures them? > > Furthermore, Anne Lauvergeon of Electricite > de France did not > endorse capping emissions, nor did she peddle that > nonsense about the US > "losing global leadership." That was all from the > "energy specialist." > > Tacked on at the end of the article we read > this: > > "While Deutch placed great expectations on > carbon capture and > sequestration technology to reduce emissions from > coal-fired power > stations, notably in China, a parallel report to the > Trilateral Commission > by a French energy executive, Anne Lauvergeon, cast > doubt on that solution. > > "Lauvergeon, chief executive of Areva, which builds > nuclear power stations, > said the capture and storage of carbon emitted > through the burning of > fossil fuels was too often presented as a miracle > solution. > > "This technology would 'not play a significant role > in the limitation of > carbon emissions for half a century,' she wrote." > > If anything, Lauvergeon is opposing > Deutch's proposals. (Is she > an extremist too, or is Deutch the extremist for > only wanting to tax US > citizens and only wanting to push around US auto > manufacturers?) > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html From wwebber2004 at comcast.net Thu Mar 22 02:04:19 2007 From: wwebber2004 at comcast.net (Bill) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 03:04:19 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46022A73.7050006@comcast.net> You can find information on just about anyone in the public eye on the wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Caldicott If you don't agree with the data you can correct it. Jeff Terry wrote: > Hi All, > > Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From rhelbig at california.com Thu Mar 22 03:23:43 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:23:43 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott References: <46022A73.7050006@comcast.net> Message-ID: <005e01c76c5e$cce788c0$18435142@roger1> Be careful of the Wikipedia, though, it is not scrupulously accurate ... and yes, you can correct it; I wrote a new Rokke bio and posted it and it disappeared a couple of times and I put it back .. what was there last time was substantially the bio I wrote for him. I doubt that they would let Otto Raabe's incisive comments on Caldicott stand though. They were not neutral. Roger Helbig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" To: "Jeff Terry" Cc: "radsafe Radsafe" Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott You can find information on just about anyone in the public eye on the wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Caldicott If you don't agree with the data you can correct it. Jeff Terry wrote: > Hi All, > > Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? > > Thanks, > > Jeff From llowe at senes.ca Thu Mar 22 10:42:31 2007 From: llowe at senes.ca (Leo M. Lowe) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:42:31 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] U.S. NRC Report (Jan 1979) NUREG/DR-0530 - Solubility Classification of Airborne Products from Uranium Ores and Tailings Piles - D. Kalkwarf Message-ID: <200703221543.l2MFhLuA010015@mail99c9.megamailservers.com> Hello, Does anyone know where I can access the above report (or obtain a copy)? Regards, Leo M. Lowe, Ph.D., P.Phys. SENES Consultants Limited llowe at senes.ca www.senes.ca Tel: 905-764-9380 Fax: 905-764-9386 This transmission is intended only for the addressee and may contain PRIVILEGED or CONFIDENTIAL information. Any unauthorized disclosure, use or retention is strictly prohibited. SENES does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in contents or attachments. Information is provided for use "as is" by the addressee. Revised documents must not be represented as SENES work product, without express, written permission of a SENES Director. From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 22 10:53:02 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 08:53:02 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] U.S. NRC Report (Jan 1979) NUREG/DR-0530 - Solubility Classification of Airborne Products from Uranium Ores and Tailings Piles - D. Kalkwarf In-Reply-To: <200703221543.l2MFhLuA010015@mail99c9.megamailservers.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6D7@gdses.corp.gds.com> Leo, Here's a start with a search on the subject: http://gate.kins.re.kr/plsql/nextgen/pk_croref_nav.pr_docu_tgan0?p_uniq_seqn =2000000575&p_srch_word= http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6417974 Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Leo M. Lowe Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:43 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] U.S. NRC Report (Jan 1979) NUREG/DR-0530 - Solubility Classification of Airborne Products from Uranium Ores and Tailings Piles - D. Kalkwarf Hello, Does anyone know where I can access the above report (or obtain a copy)? Regards, Leo M. Lowe, Ph.D., P.Phys. SENES Consultants Limited llowe at senes.ca www.senes.ca Tel: 905-764-9380 Fax: 905-764-9386 This transmission is intended only for the addressee and may contain PRIVILEGED or CONFIDENTIAL information. Any unauthorized disclosure, use or retention is strictly prohibited. SENES does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in contents or attachments. Information is provided for use "as is" by the addressee. Revised documents must not be represented as SENES work product, without express, written permission of a SENES Director. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Thu Mar 22 10:59:47 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:59:47 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <46016BDE.5000507@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE7A980D@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Friends, Zbigniew Jaworowski is one of the relatively few true scientists in the world today. He describes his background in this 2004 statement for Senate hearings. Note also that his ref 1 is to: Jaworowski, Z., Stable lead in fossil ice and bones. Nature, 1968. 217: p. 152-153. His '90s papers on ice records for climate significance include: Jaworowski, Z., T.V. Segalstad, and N. Ono, Do glaciers tell a true atmospheric CO2 story? The Science of the Total Environment, 1992. 114: p. 227-284. and Jaworowski, Z., Ancient atmosphere - validity of ice records. Environ. Sci. & Pollut. Res., 1994. 1(3): p. 161-171. You can see the statement and other refs at http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/ (you can see some of his radiobiology papers on our Rad Sci Health site: http://radscihealth.org/rsh/docs Regards, Jim ============= Statement written for the Hearing before the US Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation Climate Change: Incorrect information on pre-industrial CO2 March 19, 2004 Statement of Prof. Zbigniew Jaworowski Chairman, Scientific Council of Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection Warsaw, Poland "I am a Professor at the Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection (CLOR) in Warsaw, Poland, a governmental institution, involved in environmental studies. CLOR has a "Special Liaison" relationship with the US National Council on Radiological Protection and Measurements (NCRP). In the past, for about ten years, CLOR closely cooperated with the US Environmental Protection Agency, in research on the influence of industry and nuclear explosions on pollution of the global environment and population. I published about 280 scientific papers, among them about 20 on climatic problems. I am the representative of Poland in the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR), and in 1980 - 1982 I was the chairman of this Committee. "For the past 40 years I was involved in glacier studies, using snow and ice as a matrix for reconstruction of history of man-made pollution of the global atmosphere. A part of these studies was related to the climatic issues. Ice core records of CO2 have been widely used as a proof that, due to man's activity the current atmospheric level of CO2 is about 25% higher than in the pre-industrial period. These records became the basic input parameters in the models of the global carbon cycle and a cornerstone of the man-made climatic warming hypothesis. These records do not represent the atmospheric reality, as I will try to demonstrate in my statement. "Relevant Background "In order to study the history of industrial pollution of the global atmosphere, between 1972 and 1980, I organized 11 glacier expeditions, which measured natural and man-made pollutants in contemporary and ancient precipitation, preserved in 17 glaciers in Arctic, Antarctic, Alaska, Norway, the Alps, the Himalayas, the Ruwenzori Mountains in Uganda, the Peruvian Andes and in Tatra Mountains in Poland. I also measured long-term changes of dust in the troposphere and stratosphere, and the lead content in humans living in Europe and elsewhere during the past 5000 years. In 1968 I published the first paper on lead content in glacier ice[1]. Later I demonstrated that in pre-industrial period the total flux of lead into the global atmosphere was higher than in the 20th century, that the atmospheric content of lead is dominated by natural sources, and that the lead level in humans in Medieval Ages was 10 to 100 times higher than in the 20th century. In the 1990s I was working in the Norwegian Polar Research Institute in Oslo, and in the Japanese National Institute of Polar Research in Tokyo. In this period I studied the effects of climatic change on polar regions, and the reliability of glacier studies for estimation of CO2 concentration in the ancient atmosphere." (continued) >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl >[mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Maury Siskel >Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:31 PM >To: Ruth Sponsler >Cc: radsafe >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] extremism > >Sadly we retreat once more into the abyss of who funded or >published the >research and so on irrespective of the content of the paper. > >Perhaps for some, it is more important to be published in Science, >Nature, or the NYTimes than to be concerned about the validity of >content and the past soiled editorial records of these esteemed >journals. The premier concerns of scientific research remain what >problem(s) were put, how the research was done, how the data were >analyzed, and what conclusions were drawn. > >I don't know what genre of scientist Jaworowski might be. One >can judge >for themselves from the bio below assuming (as I have) that it >is not a >fabrication. Even disregarding the defining work that he did on the >health effects of Chernobyl, this referenced paper will speak >for itself >if one reviews it. The content of the paper, however, along with past >work of the man should say much more than labels and other scarcely >relevant political characteristics. > >Jaworowski bio furnished with the paper: > >"Zbigniew Jaworowski is a multidisciplinary scientist, >now a senior advisor at the Central Laboratory for >Radiological Protection in Warsaw. In the winter of >1957-58, he measured the concentration of CO2 in the >atmospheric air at Spitsbergen. From 1972 to 1991, he >investigated the history of the pollution of the global >atmosphere, measuring the dust preserved in 17 glaciers: >in the Tatra Mountains in Poland, in the Arctic, >Antarctic, Alaska, Norway, the Alps, the Himalayas, >the Ruwenzori Mountains in Uganda, and the Peruvian >Andes. He has published many papers on climate, most >of them concerning the CO2 measurements in ice cores. >Two of his papers on climate appear on the website of >21st Century Science & Technology magazine, >www.21stcenturysciencetech.com." > >Best, >Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) >=================================== > >Ruth Sponsler wrote: > >> I have enough general education from college to know >> about "evaluating sources," >> >> "EIR Review" in which this article is published is >> associated with Lyndon LaRouche, who is on the fringe >> of politics. >> >> http://www.larouchepub.com/ >> >> I really like Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski's articles on >> ionizing radiation and nuclear energy. >> >> However, there is a much better outlet for these articles than >> LaRouche Publications. >> >> Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a climatologist. I am not either. >> >> I tend to respect the opinions of climatologists like Dr. Kerry >> Emanuel, whom I cited in another mail. >> >> Let me make a note on another climatologist in the news lately. I >> believe that Dr. James Hansen has gone to extremes on the >Left in his >> testimony before Congress. I can't support James Hansen's ideas and >> accusations. >> >> There is a difference between believing that certain >> climatologists like Hansen have strayed too far to the left...and >> believing in sites like >> http://www.larouchepub.com/ or >> http://www.junkscience.com/ >> >> Going back to choosing sources - I believe it's very >important to note >> what legitimate, science-directed >> agencies like NOAA and the European Space Agency are finding >in their >> research: >> >> http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2007/feb/feb07.html >> >> http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM1DUQ08ZE_index_1.html#subhead1 >> >> As I've said before, it's important to be careful about >extremes. The >> climate situation has certainly >> brought out the extremes both on the Left and the Right. >> >> ~Ruth Sponsler >> >> ===== >> >>> If you would have the most serious, complete, and most scholarly >>> scientific work that I have encountered yet regarding anthropogenic >>> global warming, please see: >>> >>> EIRScience >>> CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time >>> by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc. >> >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and >understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other >settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > From Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk Thu Mar 22 10:10:20 2007 From: Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk (Dawson, Fred Mr) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:10:20 -0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LLRC Radioactive times Message-ID: List members might be interested in the latest Edition of the Radioactive Times from the LLRC http://www.llrc.org/rat/subrat/ratpage2.htm "Radioactive Times for December 2006 is now on the web as a PDF. Look for the Radioactive Times button on the left of the http://www.llrc.org home page. It's largely about Uranium weapons - what we used to call "Depleted Uranium" until the military hit on the idea of concealing the tell-tale isotopic ratio of DU by using natural Uranium. As we now see in this issue, Enriched Uranium is part of the mix now. There is a description of Photoelectron Enhancement of dose - a mechanism which provides a possible explanation of why Uranium appears to be so dangerous despite its low level of radioactivity. It's based on two known characteristics of Uranium - its propensity to bind to DNA and its huge capacity to absorb background gamma rays and re-emit their energy to local tissue. Does this solve the conundrum of why heavy metals are toxic? Will it get its originator a Nobel Prize? Don't hold your breath. Other stories are about * Chernobyl health effects, * CoRWM the Louche, * the equally louche son of CoRWM, * how to detect Uranium in the environment, * how Uranium from Gulf War 2 turned up in air filters near the Atomic Weapons Establishment near London, * philosophical problems with science advice, access to cancer data, * official attacks on ICRP's risk model, * and Chris Busby's Science Wars combat manual, Wolves of Water, which is getting rave reviews from those who have already bought it. This is the story of my life, too!! ; I am all but 30 pages from the end of the book. It is GOOD! ; This is a story that just HAD to be told. " Fred Dawson From Daren.Perrero at illinois.gov Wed Mar 21 17:50:33 2007 From: Daren.Perrero at illinois.gov (Perrero, Daren) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:50:33 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Patient Dose during Lymphoscintigraphy using Tc-99msulfur colloid References: <81F2F1043B799F47B6A4EFCF6F88F82A019C4538@AMEDMLNARMC134> Message-ID: <730E743AFAA26146A2F74AC52A2BEAEA0A3D7F@BEAR.iema.state.il.us> I would appreciate any information you might acquire on this topic as well. If possible would you be willing to summarize any responses you receive for the group? Daren Perrero daren.perrero(a)illinois.gov I'm with the government, I'm here to help you.... the opinions expresses are mine, all mine ________________________________ From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Scott, Andrew L MAJ WRAMC-Wash DC Sent: Tue 3/20/2007 1:25 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Patient Dose during Lymphoscintigraphy using Tc-99msulfur colloid ALL, Has anyone performed, and would be willing to share, a dose calculation for patients undergoing lymphoscintigraphy for rectal/colorectal cancer to localize the sentinal lymph node using Tc-99m sulfur colloid? I have information pertaining to breast cancer studies. Thanks for any relevant information. Andrew L. Scott Chief, Operations Branch Health Physics Office, WRAMC Office: 202-356-0061 DSN: 642-0061 Fax: 202-356-0086 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Rick.Greene at shawgrp.com Thu Mar 22 09:50:07 2007 From: Rick.Greene at shawgrp.com (Greene, Rick) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:50:07 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] I-125 bioassay Message-ID: <87F8E8E2C0DE4840A3C3EB7E6AC5A9620EAE3A@entbtrxmb03.shawgrp.com> I need to set up a thyroid bioassay program for I-125. I'm having trouble finding a neck/thyroid phantom and calibration sources. Any help is appreciated. Rick Rick Greene, CHP Manager, EH&S Shaw Environmental & Infrastructure Technology Applications Group/TDL 304 Directors Drive Knoxville, TN 37923 (865) 694-7313 phone (865) 694-9573 fax www.shawgrp.com ----------------------------------------- ****Internet Email Confidentiality Footer**** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliverthis message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this messageand notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of The Shaw Group Inc. or its subsidiaries shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ______________________________________ The Shaw Group Inc. http://www.shawgrp.com From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Thu Mar 22 11:57:43 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <3C6C89A78A164D9C9427C4B98CC236F5@JohnPC> Message-ID: <585690.64249.qm@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> John, Yes, I am aware that we need potassium. My question is do we need K-40 as some believe. --- John R Johnson wrote: > John > > It has nothing to do with K-40. We all need > potassium to live, as I pointed > out recently on Radsafe. > > John > *************** > John R Johnson, PhD > CEO, IDIAS, Inc. > Vancouver, B. C. > Canada > (604) 222-9840 > idias at interchange.ubc.ca > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Jacobus" > To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > ; "John R Johnson" > ; "Jeff Terry" > ; "radsafe" > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:02 PM > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida > pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > > > > Jim, > > Beyond cells, is there any proof to your statement > > regarding K-40? A citation or two would be nice. > > > > --- "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > > wrote: > > > >> Amen John, > >> > >> Not only would you die without potassium, it is > >> fairly well homeostatically controlled. > >> > >> We even know that with just K-39, removing the > K-40, > >> and shielding from external radiation, cells and > >> organisms cease to function. > >> > >> Regards, Jim > >> > >> > >> +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Thu Mar 22 12:11:09 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:11:09 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <585690.64249.qm@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE7A9810@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> John, note that I referred to an experiment in which the low-dose deficiency without K-40 was compensated for with either providing K-40, natural potassium, OR external radiation (I understood that it was thorium sand). It's not the K-40 itself, but K-40 provides a baseline of 0.25-0.40 mSv of 24/365 1/4 radiation, plus cosmic of course, and generally U/Rn and decay products, to provide a minimal level to maintain health (although we do know that people in the lowest-dose natural background areas are less healthy than people in average or natural high-dose areas). That is, K-40 depletion itself isn't detrimental as long as there is sufficient radiation from other sources! Regards, Jim >-----Original Message----- >From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:58 PM >To: John R Johnson; Muckerheide, Jim (CDA); Jeff Terry; radsafe >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida >pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > >John, >Yes, I am aware that we need potassium. My question >is do we need K-40 as some believe. > >--- John R Johnson wrote: > >> John >> >> It has nothing to do with K-40. We all need >> potassium to live, as I pointed >> out recently on Radsafe. >> >> John >> *************** >> John R Johnson, PhD >> CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >> Vancouver, B. C. >> Canada >> (604) 222-9840 >> idias at interchange.ubc.ca >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Jacobus" >> To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" >> ; "John R Johnson" >> ; "Jeff Terry" >> ; "radsafe" >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:02 PM >> Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida >> pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> > Jim, >> > Beyond cells, is there any proof to your statement >> > regarding K-40? A citation or two would be nice. >> > >> > --- "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Amen John, >> >> >> >> Not only would you die without potassium, it is >> >> fairly well homeostatically controlled. >> >> >> >> We even know that with just K-39, removing the >> K-40, >> >> and shielding from external radiation, cells and >> >> organisms cease to function. >> >> >> >> Regards, Jim >> >> >> >> >> >> > >+++++++++++++++++++ >"We must face the fact that the United States is neither >omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the >world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the >other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong >or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an >American solution to every world problem." >-- John F. Kennedy > >-- John >John Jacobus, MS >Certified Health Physicist >e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >_____________________ >Be a PS3 game guru. >Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at >Yahoo! Games. >http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 > > From joel.baumbaugh at navy.mil Thu Mar 22 12:20:13 2007 From: joel.baumbaugh at navy.mil (Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:20:13 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Message-ID: <7DB6DF83D2CD9140ADA0622B1A05BF2F048EAA3F@nawespscez02> Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. First a short introduction: My current employer appears to be mandating/authorizing the use of Geiger Mueller (GM) detectors to measure dose rates in Roentgens (the meters read "capital" R, not "r") . As many of you know, a given instrument intended for performing quantitative measurements will respond differently to various energies of a given radiation, and a GM tube's response is quite energy dependent. As the GM's are calibrated with Cs-137 the response to other x-ray/gamma sources (of other energies/strength) can be quite different than what one would measure with an ion chamber - i.e. the energy dependence of the instrument must be known and accounted for in order to make accurate quantitative measurements. A short Discussion: I'm not sure that my employer realizes that by utilizing a GM for measurement of (a wide energy-range of) gamma/x-rays they are creating the potential for overexposure conditions (where in some/many cases one should be utilizing an ion chamber). Exposure vs dose, Bragg-Gray and kerma considerations put aside for now, I was taught to always utilize an Ion Chamber if I REALLY wanted to know the dose-rates (I use a pressurized ion-chamber myself for a wider range of energy response). After all, last I knew, "exposure" was still defined in terms of the amount of ionization charge created in AIR - and I believe that the fundamental SI unit of exposure still corresponds to that amount of x-or gamma radiation who's associated secondary electrons create an ionization charge of on coulomb per kilogram of dry air at STP. Anyone know of a GM that utilizes 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen for a counting gas? So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh Std. Disclaimer... The thoughts, discussion and opinion(s) above are mine and mine only, not that of my employer and, of course, I am in no way asserting/suggesting that my employer is doing anything wrong. This is only a topic for a philosophical Health Physics discussion and I would value your opinion(s) on the matter. From mpatterson at canberra.com Thu Mar 22 12:32:16 2007 From: mpatterson at canberra.com (PATTERSON Melissa) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:32:16 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] I-125 bioassay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rick, I am the In Vivo Systems Product Manager for Canberra. While we don't sell a standalone thyroid phantom, our 2257 and 2257A phantom assemblies include a thyroid position. In fact the neck portion of these phantoms is identical to the front half of the ANSI N44.3 neck phantom. Our phantoms are designed to use a 20 ml liquid scintillation vial source. We offer a mixed gamma calibration source as a standard product. I hope this helps. Please feel free to call me if you have any questions. Sincerely, Melissa Patterson In Vivo Systems Product Manager CANBERRA an AREVA Company 800 Research Parkway Meriden, CT 06450 203 639-2261 -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Greene, Rick Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:50 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] I-125 bioassay I need to set up a thyroid bioassay program for I-125. I'm having trouble finding a neck/thyroid phantom and calibration sources. Any help is appreciated. Rick Rick Greene, CHP Manager, EH&S Shaw Environmental & Infrastructure Technology Applications Group/TDL 304 Directors Drive Knoxville, TN 37923 (865) 694-7313 phone (865) 694-9573 fax www.shawgrp.com ----------------------------------------- ****Internet Email Confidentiality Footer**** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliverthis message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this messageand notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of The Shaw Group Inc. or its subsidiaries shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ______________________________________ The Shaw Group Inc. http://www.shawgrp.com _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Kjell.Johansen at nmcco.com Thu Mar 22 12:50:45 2007 From: Kjell.Johansen at nmcco.com (Johansen, Kjell) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:50:45 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Message-ID: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> In his reply to Ruth Sponsler, Steve Dapra talks about the need to concentrate on the science and not on positions taken by extremists. Steve, next, mentions the lack of focus on water vapor, which he quotes from a website as being the major Greenhouse gas. It is my understanding from meteorology classes that while water vapor acts as a green house gas, the amount of water vapor in the air depends upon the temprature. Increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere traps more heat which in turn generates the water vapor by evaporating liquids. Long story short, without the driving force of carbon dioxide, and other gases such as methane (which has about 16x more forcing power than CO2), there would not be much water vapor to ta act as a greenhouse gas. So, to answer the question " would it be correct to say that blaming global warming on man-made greenhouse gases is an "extremist" position? " I would say NO!!! I find that the climate scientists are doing a pretty good job of describing the cause and effect of global warming. It is a form of reverse hubris to think that humanity can not effect global climate change. The biogeochemical cycles of this planet have some selfcorrecting mechanisms which flow naturally from well known chemical and physical processes. To suddenly (200 years is sudden on the geological time scale) dump large amounts of carbon which has been sequesterd in the earth for millions of years into the atmosphere and expect that the earth's biogeochemical cycles will not be upset is not logical. Try pouring 10 gallons of water into a 1 gallon bucket with only a few holes in it. If you pour fast enough, the flux into the bucket will exceed the flux out of the bucket and the water level will rise. The gas concentrations from the ice cores show tha over a very long time span, higher temperatures are associated with higher CO2 and CH4 concentrations. The models predict higher temperatures in the future. To claim that the models may be wrong and that nothing has to be done ignores the fact that they could be wrong in that they are underestimating the consequences. Therefore, I conclude that the extremist position is the one taken by the person who sits around wanting more conclusive proof before taking any action to lower the consequences of global climate change. Kjell Johansen Whitefish Bay, WI The opinions expressed are my own and are not in any way attributable to my employment. From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 22 13:09:36 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:09:36 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C037E317E@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6E0@gdses.corp.gds.com> Joel, I am in 100% agreement with you and your comments. I assume the "employer" has their reasons for not simply utilizing an ion chamber (you can reply privately). Regards, Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:20 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 22 13:25:42 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:25:42 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C037E31A3@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6E3@gdses.corp.gds.com> Kyell, Interesting article today. Southern Ocean current faces slowdown threat By Michael Byrnes Thu Mar 22, 2:03 AM ET HOBART (Reuters) - The impact of global warming on the vast Southern Ocean around Antarctica is starting to pose a threat to ocean currents that distribute heat around the world, Australian scientists say, citing new deep-water data. Melting ice-sheets and glaciers in Antarctica are releasing fresh water, interfering with the formation of dense "bottom water," which sinks 4-5 kilometers to the ocean floor and helps drive the world's ocean circulation system. A slowdown in the system known as "overturning circulation" would affect the way the ocean, which absorbs 85 percent of atmospheric heat, carries heat around the globe. "If the water gets fresh enough ... then it won't matter how much ice we form, we won't be able to make this water cold and salty enough to sink," said Steve Rintoul, a senior scientist at the Australian government-funded CSIRO Marine Science. "Changes would be felt ... around the globe," said Rintoul, who recently led a multinational team of scientists on an expedition to sample deep-basin water south of Western Australia to the Antarctic. Water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor is formed in polar regions by surface water freezing, which concentrates salt in very cold water beneath the ice. The dense water then sinks. Only a few places around Antarctica and in the northern Atlantic create water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor, making Antarctic "bottom water" crucial to global ocean currents. But the freshening of Antarctic deep water was a sign that the "overturning circulation" system in the world's oceans might be slowing down, Rintoul said, and similar trends are occurring in the North Atlantic. For the so-called Atlantic Conveyor, the surface warm water current meets the Greenland ice sheet then cools and sinks, heading south again and driving the conveyor belt process. But researchers fear increased melting of the Greenland ice sheet risks disrupting the conveyor. If it stops, temperatures in northern Europe would plunge. Rintoul, who has led teams tracking water density around the Antarctic through decades of readings, said his findings add to concerns about a "strangling" of the Southern Ocean by greenhouse gases and global warming. Australian scientists warned last month that waters surrounding Antarctica were also becoming more acidic as they absorbed more carbon dioxide produced by nations burning fossil fuels. Acidification of the ocean is affecting the ability of plankton -- microscopic marine plants, animals and bacteria -- to absorb carbon dioxide, reducing the ocean's ability to sink greenhouse gases to the bottom of the sea. Rintoul said that global warming was also changing wind patterns in the Antarctic region, drawing them south away from the Australian mainland and causing declining rainfall in western and possibly eastern coastal areas. This was contributing to drought in Australia, one of the world's top agricultural producers, he said. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Johansen, Kjell Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:51 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Therefore, I conclude that the extremist position is the one taken by the person who sits around wanting more conclusive proof before taking any action to lower the consequences of global climate change. Kjell Johansen Whitefish Bay, WI From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 22 13:33:05 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:33:05 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Williston-Elin In-Reply-To: <51F5591FCBAC7447BC3BBEF5FEFFBF7B0938C5BF@dohsmailhq07.doh.ad.state.fl.us> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6E4@gdses.corp.gds.com> Reno, You can try contacting the company and they can provide the current service representative: Tel : (011) 702-2227 (011) 702-2228 (011) 702-2229 Fax : (011) 702-1507 Email : williston at jhbmail.co.za Company Profile. Electronic Equipment & Components, Engineers - Electronic Postal Address : P.O. Box 491 Bramley Sandton 2018 Physical Address : 101 Garden Rd Blue Hills Midrand 1685 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Reno_Fabii at doh.state.fl.us Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 7:09 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Williston-Elin We have a Williston-Elin irradiator in need of repair and support. Does anyone know of a US company that will provide service support? Does anyone have a copy of the complete technical manual for the unit? Reno J. Fabii Environmental Specialist II Florida Dept. of Health Bureau of Radiation Control Phone: (407) 297-2096 Ext. 240 Fax: (407) 297-2085 reno_fabii at doh.state.fl.us _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From caspar at aecom.yu.edu Thu Mar 22 13:57:59 2007 From: caspar at aecom.yu.edu (Bob Casparius) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:57:59 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.n et> References: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20070322143838.033d3768@pop.aecom.yu.edu> The National Climate Data Center even says that any increase in water vapor in the atmosphere is due to increases in atmospheric temperature. Therefore, the increased atmospheric temperature must be due to something other than increased water vapor. And if there is increased water vapor in the atmosphere it is due to increased atmospheric temp. The following is from http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html "Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, which is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its concentration is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet is still fairly poorly measured and understood. As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated from ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is warmer, the relative humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is able to 'hold' more water when its warmer), leading to more water vapor in the atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water vapor is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then hold more water vapor and so on and so on. This is referred to as a 'positive feedback loop'. However, huge scientific uncertainty exists in defining the extent and importance of this feedback loop. As water vapor increases in the atmosphere, more of it will eventually also condense into clouds, which are more able to reflect incoming solar radiation (thus allowing less energy to reach the Earth's surface and heat it up). The future monitoring of atmospheric processes involving water vapor will be critical to fully understand the feedbacks in the climate system leading to global climate change. As yet, though the basics of the hydrological cycle are fairly well understood, we have very little comprehension of the complexity of the feedback loops. Also, while we have good atmospheric measurements of other key greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide and methane, we have poor measurements of global water vapor, so it is not certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in recent decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined with balloon data and some in-situ ground measurements indicate generally positive trends in global water vapor." The website: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html That Steven Dapra sites appears to be promoting coal as an energy source, which is another source of CO2 when burned. This makes you wonder if they are not bias in their presentation of global warming. Check out the discussion of strip mining: http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/StripMiner.html Bob At 01:50 PM 3/22/2007, Johansen, Kjell wrote: >In his reply to Ruth Sponsler, Steve Dapra talks about the need to >concentrate on the science and not on positions taken by extremists. >Steve, next, mentions the lack of focus on water vapor, which he quotes >from a website as being the major Greenhouse gas. It is my >understanding from meteorology classes that while water vapor acts as a >green house gas, the amount of water vapor in the air depends upon the >temprature. Increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere traps more heat >which in turn generates the water vapor by evaporating liquids. Long >story short, without the driving force of carbon dioxide, and other >gases such as methane (which has about 16x more forcing power than CO2), >there would not be much water vapor to ta act as a greenhouse gas. So, >to answer the question > >" would it be correct to say that blaming global warming on man-made >greenhouse gases is an "extremist" position? " >I would say NO!!! > >I find that the climate scientists are doing a pretty good job of >describing the cause and effect of global warming. It is a form of >reverse hubris to think that humanity can not effect global climate >change. The biogeochemical cycles of this planet have some >selfcorrecting mechanisms which flow naturally from well known chemical >and physical processes. To suddenly (200 years is sudden on the >geological time scale) dump large amounts of carbon which has been >sequesterd in the earth for millions of years into the atmosphere and >expect that the earth's biogeochemical cycles will not be upset is not >logical. Try pouring 10 gallons of water into a 1 gallon bucket with >only a few holes in it. If you pour fast enough, the flux into the >bucket will exceed the flux out of the bucket and the water level will >rise. The gas concentrations from the ice cores show tha over a very >long time span, higher temperatures are associated with higher CO2 and >CH4 concentrations. The models predict higher temperatures in the >future. To claim that the models may be wrong and that nothing has to >be done ignores the fact that they could be wrong in that they are >underestimating the consequences. > >Therefore, I conclude that the extremist position is the one taken by >the person who sits around wanting more conclusive proof before taking >any action to lower the consequences of global climate change. > >Kjell Johansen >Whitefish Bay, WI > >The opinions expressed are my own and are not in any way attributable to >my employment. >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From FloodJR at nv.doe.gov Thu Mar 22 14:29:35 2007 From: FloodJR at nv.doe.gov (Flood, John) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:29:35 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6E3@gdses.corp.gds.com> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C037E31A3@gdses.corp.gds.com> <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6E3@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <3F9210628ADD1D44949E7FD0841A6B2B6CE1CD@NTS-VPO1-WS.NTS.OPS> Interesting that this phenomenon was just "discovered" - the influence of fresh water from melting glaciers on the three-dimensional large scale ocean currents was a topic covered in a climatology class I took in college. And I won't be admitting how many decades ago that was. The example used in class was to show how large scale melting of the northern hemisphere ice cap would probably move the Gulf Stream enough to turn England into something more like Iceland. John R. (Bob) Flood Acting Manager Radiological Health Nevada Test Site (702) 295-2514 -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:26 AM To: 'Johansen, Kjell'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) Kyell, Interesting article today. Southern Ocean current faces slowdown threat By Michael Byrnes Thu Mar 22, 2:03 AM ET HOBART (Reuters) - The impact of global warming on the vast Southern Ocean around Antarctica is starting to pose a threat to ocean currents that distribute heat around the world, Australian scientists say, citing new deep-water data. Melting ice-sheets and glaciers in Antarctica are releasing fresh water, interfering with the formation of dense "bottom water," which sinks 4-5 kilometers to the ocean floor and helps drive the world's ocean circulation system. A slowdown in the system known as "overturning circulation" would affect the way the ocean, which absorbs 85 percent of atmospheric heat, carries heat around the globe. "If the water gets fresh enough ... then it won't matter how much ice we form, we won't be able to make this water cold and salty enough to sink," said Steve Rintoul, a senior scientist at the Australian government-funded CSIRO Marine Science. "Changes would be felt ... around the globe," said Rintoul, who recently led a multinational team of scientists on an expedition to sample deep-basin water south of Western Australia to the Antarctic. Water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor is formed in polar regions by surface water freezing, which concentrates salt in very cold water beneath the ice. The dense water then sinks. Only a few places around Antarctica and in the northern Atlantic create water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor, making Antarctic "bottom water" crucial to global ocean currents. But the freshening of Antarctic deep water was a sign that the "overturning circulation" system in the world's oceans might be slowing down, Rintoul said, and similar trends are occurring in the North Atlantic. For the so-called Atlantic Conveyor, the surface warm water current meets the Greenland ice sheet then cools and sinks, heading south again and driving the conveyor belt process. But researchers fear increased melting of the Greenland ice sheet risks disrupting the conveyor. If it stops, temperatures in northern Europe would plunge. Rintoul, who has led teams tracking water density around the Antarctic through decades of readings, said his findings add to concerns about a "strangling" of the Southern Ocean by greenhouse gases and global warming. Australian scientists warned last month that waters surrounding Antarctica were also becoming more acidic as they absorbed more carbon dioxide produced by nations burning fossil fuels. Acidification of the ocean is affecting the ability of plankton -- microscopic marine plants, animals and bacteria -- to absorb carbon dioxide, reducing the ocean's ability to sink greenhouse gases to the bottom of the sea. Rintoul said that global warming was also changing wind patterns in the Antarctic region, drawing them south away from the Australian mainland and causing declining rainfall in western and possibly eastern coastal areas. This was contributing to drought in Australia, one of the world's top agricultural producers, he said. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Johansen, Kjell Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:51 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Therefore, I conclude that the extremist position is the one taken by the person who sits around wanting more conclusive proof before taking any action to lower the consequences of global climate change. Kjell Johansen Whitefish Bay, WI _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Thu Mar 22 15:43:20 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:43:20 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com><45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com><5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com><01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: Brian P. Riely wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Riely, Brian P. Sent: Tue 3/20/2007 1:12 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle Informative article: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html ========================= Radsafe readers can find a detail rebuttal of the cherry-picked arguments in the cited web page at the web page info-pollution.com/chill.html Further, the web page Brian Riely cites is put together by Monte and Harrison Hieb. Monte Hieb works, apparently as an engineer, with the West Virginia Office of Miners Health Safety and Training, in the Oak Hill Regional Office. The MHST web site includes the information that WV had 27 miner fatalities and 1547 injuries in 2006, among either 20,600 or 36,000 people employed in the industry (the web page's information here is ambiguous). The Hieb's web site is primarily devoted to WV plant fossil paleontology. Their global warming pages are primarily disinformation. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland WA jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 22 15:44:54 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:44:54 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Japan's TEPCO admits 1978 nuclear criticality Message-ID: <46028856.2407.59C9235@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: Japan's TEPCO admits 1978 nuclear criticality Germany can abandon nuclear power and cut CO2: Greenpeace Vietnam wants nuclear power Fluor Forms Nuclear Power Business 2 UK sailors killed in nuclear submarine accident Ireland Unions call for nuclear energy debate Rate-setters look at rules for possible nuclear plant --------------------------------------------------------------------- Japan's TEPCO admits 1978 nuclear criticality TOKYO, March 22 (Reuters) - Japan's largest utility, Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) , said on Thursday there was a "criticality" incident at one of its nuclear power plants in 1978 that could have lasted for up to 7-?? hours. TEPCO's admission came a week after another Japanese utility said it had concealed a similar incident in 1999. There were no records of the incident at the No.3 unit at TEPCO's Fukushima Daiichi plant in Fukushima, northern Japan. It came to light during interviews with two former workers at the plant, both now aged around 70, a news briefing was told by Nagao Suzuki, general manager at TEPCO's nuclear power plant management unit. TEPCO said it was still investigating but was unaware of any injuries or radiation leak as a result of the incident. "One of them had a quite clear memory about the incident. He took it quite seriously," Suzuki said. ADVERTISEMENT Fuel rods fell in a reactor core and may have caused self-sustaining nuclear fission, or criticality. It took about 7 ?? hours to place the rods into the proper positions, he said. Technical data which should have recorded the incident was abandoned after 10 years in line with regulations that governed nuclear power plant management in the 1970s. Toshiba Corp. ., the maker of the unit, provided some data to back up what the worker said about the incident, Suzuki said. It was unclear if the workers had intended to conceal the incident, he said. TEPCO has found five past cases of mishandling of fuel rods, including the one at the Fukushima plant. The other four, which did not lead to criticality, also involved Toshiba units. Utilities are now reporting such incidents to the government after the Trade Ministry ordered them in November to investigate power plant records and report the findings by the end of March, a process the ministry said would help improve the industry's safety controls. TEPCO's admission comes after Hokuriku Electric Power Co. said last week it had covered up an incident in 1999 that caused criticality that lasted for 15 minutes. ------------------ Germany can abandon nuclear power and cut CO2: Greenpeace BERLIN (AFP) - Germany could abandon nuclear energy more quickly than planned and still achieve a 40-percent cut in carbon dioxide emissions, environmental group Greenpeace said on Thursday. If all nuclear power stations were closed by 2015, instead of the planned date of 2020, Germany could still reduce its CO2 emissions by 40 percent, according to a study prepared for Greenpeace by the EUtech institute, based in the western German city of Aachen. Germany has the resources and the technology available to achieve both goals, the report said. "There can be no more excuses, a 40-percent cut by 2020 is achievable," said Greenpeace Germany's energy expert Andree Boehling. Shutting down the country's nuclear plants would indirectly have a positive effect on emissions by encouraging the energy industry to develop new technology, Boehling said. Germany, which currently holds the rotating presidency of the European Union, helped broker an agreement this month under which the 27 member states will reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 20 percent from 1990 levels over the next 13 years. But the Greenpeace-backed report, entitled "Climate protection: Plan B," says Germany could achieve a greater reduction by using renewable energy to generate one fifth of its heating needs and one third of its electricity by 2020, according to the report "The German government's Plan A has failed," Boehling said, referring to a slight rise in CO2 emissions in Germany since 2006. Germany has agreed to phase out nuclear power by around 2020, but France relies on atomic energy for around 40 percent of its needs and has pushed for it to be classed as a renewable form of energy when the EU deal is firmed up. ----------------- Vietnam wants nuclear power SINGAPORE, March 22 (UPI) -- Vietnam intends to build nuclear power plants to diversify sources for its increasing energy demand, moving away from traditional hydropower. "Maybe in 15 years, we hope to have a plant in operation," said Ta Van Huong, director general of the Vietnamese Ministry of Industry's Department of Energy and Petroleum. "Nothing is confirmed yet." Huong, talking at the 10th Asia Power and Energy Congress in Singapore, said he hopes the government will approve nuclear power so his department can begin feasibility studies, Thanhnien News reports. Iranian PressTV reports Huong plans to build a 2,000 megawatt nuclear plant by 2015, which will come online by 2020. The Energy Information Administration, the data arm of the U.S. Department of Energy, says Vietnam will increase its electricity demand by 15 percent a year over the next three years. More than half is supplied by hydropower. ------------------ Fluor Forms Nuclear Power Business Fluor Forms New Unit to Focus on Engineering and Construction Services for Nuclear Industry IRVING, Texas (AP) -- Engineering and construction services provider Fluor Corp. on Thursday said it has formed a new business to focus on the nuclear power market. Nuclear power generation has gained new favor amid government officials' increasing concerns about global warming. Proponents consider nuclear power an alternative to coal-fired plants, which are blamed for contributing to air pollution. Nationwide, U.S. utilities are pursuing plans for some 30 new reactors. Fluor named Ron Pitts to head its nuclear business, which will fall under the umbrella of its power group. David Constable, president of Fluor's power group, will lead the nuclear business development efforts. The new unit will be headquartered in Greenville, S.C. President Bush advocated the use of nuclear power in his State of the Union address earlier this year, as part of a plan to diversify the nation's energy supply. No new nuclear reactors have been ordered in the United States since a 1979 accident at the Three Mile Island plant in Pennsylvania raised public ire about nuclear power ------------------- 2 UK sailors killed in nuclear submarine accident ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) -- Two British sailors were killed in an explosion aboard a Royal Navy nuclear-powered submarine in the Arctic Ocean, and an injured crew member was evacuated to a hospital in Anchorage, officials said Wednesday. The explosion occurred late Tuesday aboard the HMS Tireless, which was submerged under an ice cap about 170 miles north of Deadhorse, Alaska. The submarine was conducting a joint exercise with the U.S. Navy when its air purification system malfunctioned, British defense officials said. According to the U.S. Navy, a self-contained oxygen generation candle exploded. The attack submarine surfaced quickly through the ice and its nuclear reactor was not affected, according to the British Ministry of Defense. The Tireless does not carry nuclear missiles. The injured sailor, whose name was not released, was transported by the Alaska Air National Guard from Deadhorse, in northern Alaska's Prudhoe Bay, to Kulis Air National Guard Base in Anchorage, 625 miles away, where an ambulance took him to a local hospital. He was then taken to Alaska Regional Hospital, where he was in stable condition, said hospital spokeswoman Kjerstin Lastufka. "He was initially reported to have some burns," said Kalei Brooks, spokeswoman for the Alaska Air National Guard. The Tireless was operating with the USS Alexandria in a joint operation to test submarine operability and tactical development in Arctic waters. The submarine's forward compartment was damaged in the explosion. The equipment that failed had a 100 percent safety record, according to a Ministry of Defense spokesman. The piece of air-purification equipment was fitted to the submarine as part of an update in 2001. "I am deeply saddened at the loss of the crew members from the Tireless," said U.S. Navy Vice Adm. Jay Donnelly, commander of the Submarine Force. "We stand by to assist in any way we can." Since 1986, every Arctic tactical exercise has involved both U.S. Navy and Royal Navy submarines. Lt. Col. Andy Price, spokesman for the Royal Navy, said the submarine, while fully functional, will be evaluated over the next 12 hours to determine whether it will continue to be part of the joint exercises or return to the United Kingdom. Two weeks of exercises are scheduled to end March 30. ----------------- Ireland Unions call for nuclear energy debate The Irish Congress of Trade Unions has called for a national debate on nuclear power as a way of providing enough energy for Ireland's growing population. Speaking at the launch of a congress policy document on sustainable energy, General Secretary David Begg said that he was not 'cheerleading' for nuclear power. However, he said that within five years it must be acknowledged that some energy imported from the UK would undoubtedly be generated by nuclear means. AdvertisementHe accused the Government of a lack of 'joined-up thinking' in its formulation of energy policy. Congress has also called for the establishment of a National Energy Agency. It said the energy issue is too serious to be left in the hands of politicians engaging in 'electoral gimmickry'. --------------- Rate-setters look at rules for possible nuclear plant Consumers could be charged before any facility is built Measures designed to encourage the development of new nuclear plants in the state -- created with "significant deference" to Entergy -- were postponed by a month on Wednesday so the Louisiana Public Service Commission can consider additional protections for the state's electric customers. The proposed rules would turn the traditional regulatory process on its head by allowing a utility to earn money on a nuclear plant before it is in operation. The rules would also require the PSC to approve of the need for a nuclear plant before it is built and again at the beginning of each of three phases. The PSC would annually review the construction costs and, in the case the plant is never completed, would allow a utility to collect its costs from its customer. The rules were requested by Commissioner Jay Blossman last year. Other states, including Florida, Georgia and Indiana, have adopted similar rules to encourage the development of nuclear plants. "I wanted Louisiana to have an aggressive rule," Blossman said Wednesday. "We may decide in two years that we really don't think it's a smart idea. I just hope we would have the chance." In crafting the rule, the Louisiana Public Service Commission staff gave "significant deference" to Entergy and its position, PSC staff attorney Ann Hill said. Entergy is the only company that has expressed an interest in building a nuclear plant in the state. Entergy Nuclear, a subsidiary of Entergy Corp., has said it is considering a new nuclear unit at its Riverbend facility in St. Francisville. It plans to apply for a license for such a plant next year. It also intends to apply for a license to build a new unit at Grand Gulf, in Port Gibson, Miss. Mike Twomey, vice president of regulatory affairs for Entergy Louisiana, has said the company may build only one unit, and could chose between Louisiana and Mississippi, depending on which state offers the best environment. Louisiana needs to adopt rules that provide the company certainty it will recover its costs for a nuclear plant, he said. When companies built the last generation of nuclear plants in the 1980s, many utilities were not allowed to collect all of their costs because public service commissions found them to be imprudent. Twomey has said that such regulations discourage development of new nuclear plants. The rules presented on Wednesday take positions on issues favorable to Entergy that the staff opposed. The commissioners seemed inclined to adopt at least one of the staff's recommendations -- to remove language from the rule that would make all costs involved with the construction of a nuclear plant "presumptively valid." "We have to make sure they are prudent," said Commissioner Foster Campbell. "As a safety net, you have to leave it in there." The staff also recommended the utility not be guaranteed the right to earn money from customers before a nuclear plant is completed. That staff recommended that earnings be granted if the utility can demonstrate that they would be in the public interest, which a company could do when it came before the commission for approval of the project. "We're not suggesting we're for or against (collection of earnings), but it should be done in the certification process," when the commission can look at all of the facts of a particular proposal, said David Dismukes, a consultant to the PSC who helped draft the rules. Dismukes said collecting earnings can be good for the public because they lessen the eventual rate shock of paying for a nuclear plant and can keep the company in good financial standing. Some commissioners agreed. "I don't feel comfortable at all saying that they can collect this without" proving it's necessary, Commissioner Jimmy Fields said. Even without the guarantee, the rule goes far in changing the way such earnings were handled in the past, Dismukes said. In the 1970s and '80s, utilities that were constructing nuclear plants were allowed to earn money on their work in progress only if they could prove to the commission that they were in financial distress, he said. "This company is not in financial distress," Campbell said. "I don't have a problem with looking a nuclear. My dilemma is making a sweetheart or handsome deal with a company that is flush." The commission postponed adopting the rules after Commissioner Lambert C. Boissiere III asked to amend them to make sure that if Entergy stopped construction of a nuclear plant for its own reasons, that the company would not be able to collect its costs from Louisiana customers. Boissiere later said such a provision is necessary because Louisiana is competing with Mississippi for the nuclear plant. Mississippi could offer Entergy a better deal after construction begins in Louisiana. In that case, Entergy shouldn't be able to move the project and charge Louisiana customers for the unfinished plant here, he said. After the meeting, Twomey said he has no problems with Boissiere's amendment or the staff's recommendation to take out the language saying the costs would be presumptively prudent. But, he said that not including the guarantee on earnings doesn't provide the incentives needed to attract nuclear to the state. "I don't think it provides the same positive message," he said. Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Thu Mar 22 16:00:13 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:00:13 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle References: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com><45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com><5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com><01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: Steven Dapra wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Steven Dapra Sent: Tue 3/20/2007 7:39 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle March 20 This is a very informative website with a lot of useful and equally informative links. My thanks to Brian Riely for posting this link. It is beginning to look like man-made "global warming" is a fraud and a hoax. It would seem that the earth is in a cycle of warming, and that man-made chemicals have nothing to do with the current warming trend. When you find that the peddlers of global warming are covering up or ignoring the role of water vapor (which is 95% of the gases that cause warming) you can't help but be skeptical -- both of man-made global warming, and skeptical of the honesty of the people pushing it. No flames, please. It's warm enough already. (Har, har.) Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com ======================= There are two technical terms for the argument that Steven Dapra is advancing here. One is "straw man". You create a fictitious argument that none your debating opponents actually believes and then proceed to burn it down (up?). No educated climate scientist anywhere in the world is not aware that water vapor is responsible for most of the greenhouse gas warming effect that makes the earth's surface roughly 33 deg C warmer than it would be if we didn't have an atmosphere that contained greenhouse gases. Every general circulation model incorporates the greenhouse gas effect of water vapor. In fact, the warming predicted by GCM's is roughly twice what would be expected from the anthropogenic emission CO2, CH4, nitrous oxide, and CFCs, specifically because the warming that those gases produce will result in more water vapor in the atmosphere -- see the Clausius-Clapeyron equation. The second technical term for the argument is "lie". I assume that Steven Dapra is just ignorantly passing along this particular lie being propagated by right-wing disinformationists that are well aware that it is a lie. More generally, many contributors to this discussion have said something on the order of "I don't know much (or anything) about climate science, but I know who I am ideologically comfortable believing". Almost everyone reading and contributing to RADSAFE is capable of informing themselves about the the facts of climate scientists so that they can make informed choices of what policies to support. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or the U.S. Department of Energy. From brian.riely at ngc.com Thu Mar 22 17:16:03 2007 From: brian.riely at ngc.com (Riely, Brian P.) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:16:03 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: References: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com><45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com><5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com><01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: Jim Dukelow Wow! I can not believe you used the term, "right-wing disinformationists." I originally thought you were trying to have a rational and informed debate. Disappointed Brian Riely -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Dukelow, James S Jr Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:00 PM To: Steven Dapra; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle Steven Dapra wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Steven Dapra Sent: Tue 3/20/2007 7:39 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle March 20 This is a very informative website with a lot of useful and equally informative links. My thanks to Brian Riely for posting this link. It is beginning to look like man-made "global warming" is a fraud and a hoax. It would seem that the earth is in a cycle of warming, and that man-made chemicals have nothing to do with the current warming trend. When you find that the peddlers of global warming are covering up or ignoring the role of water vapor (which is 95% of the gases that cause warming) you can't help but be skeptical -- both of man-made global warming, and skeptical of the honesty of the people pushing it. No flames, please. It's warm enough already. (Har, har.) Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com ======================= There are two technical terms for the argument that Steven Dapra is advancing here. One is "straw man". You create a fictitious argument that none your debating opponents actually believes and then proceed to burn it down (up?). No educated climate scientist anywhere in the world is not aware that water vapor is responsible for most of the greenhouse gas warming effect that makes the earth's surface roughly 33 deg C warmer than it would be if we didn't have an atmosphere that contained greenhouse gases. Every general circulation model incorporates the greenhouse gas effect of water vapor. In fact, the warming predicted by GCM's is roughly twice what would be expected from the anthropogenic emission CO2, CH4, nitrous oxide, and CFCs, specifically because the warming that those gases produce will result in more water vapor in the atmosphere -- see the Clausius-Clapeyron equation. The second technical term for the argument is "lie". I assume that Steven Dapra is just ignorantly passing along this particular lie being propagated by right-wing disinformationists that are well aware that it is a lie. More generally, many contributors to this discussion have said something on the order of "I don't know much (or anything) about climate science, but I know who I am ideologically comfortable believing". Almost everyone reading and contributing to RADSAFE is capable of informing themselves about the the facts of climate scientists so that they can make informed choices of what policies to support. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or the U.S. Department of Energy. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Thu Mar 22 17:49:34 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:49:34 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle References: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com><45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com><5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com><01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: Brian Riely wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Riely, Brian P. Sent: Thu 3/22/2007 3:16 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle Jim Dukelow Wow! I can not believe you used the term, "right-wing disinformationists." I originally thought you were trying to have a rational and informed debate. Disappointed Brian Riely =========================== I am. When would you like to start? One way to be rational and informed is to recognize disinformation and its sources and name both. Please visit the web site I posted and then we can discuss details of where the truth is found. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. From hflong at pacbell.net Thu Mar 22 18:55:21 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 16:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) In-Reply-To: <3F9210628ADD1D44949E7FD0841A6B2B6CE1CD@NTS-VPO1-WS.NTS.OPS> Message-ID: <20070322235521.1952.qmail@web83512.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> When there WAS "global warming" a thousand years ago (when Greenland was green), was England "like Greenland' (frozen?) or like Robin Hood stories of life in Sherwood Forest? Theory vs History. Howard Long "Flood, John" wrote: Interesting that this phenomenon was just "discovered" - the influence of fresh water from melting glaciers on the three-dimensional large scale ocean currents was a topic covered in a climatology class I took in college. And I won't be admitting how many decades ago that was. The example used in class was to show how large scale melting of the northern hemisphere ice cap would probably move the Gulf Stream enough to turn England into something more like Iceland. John R. (Bob) Flood Acting Manager Radiological Health Nevada Test Site (702) 295-2514 -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:26 AM To: 'Johansen, Kjell'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) Kyell, Interesting article today. Southern Ocean current faces slowdown threat By Michael Byrnes Thu Mar 22, 2:03 AM ET HOBART (Reuters) - The impact of global warming on the vast Southern Ocean around Antarctica is starting to pose a threat to ocean currents that distribute heat around the world, Australian scientists say, citing new deep-water data. Melting ice-sheets and glaciers in Antarctica are releasing fresh water, interfering with the formation of dense "bottom water," which sinks 4-5 kilometers to the ocean floor and helps drive the world's ocean circulation system. A slowdown in the system known as "overturning circulation" would affect the way the ocean, which absorbs 85 percent of atmospheric heat, carries heat around the globe. "If the water gets fresh enough ... then it won't matter how much ice we form, we won't be able to make this water cold and salty enough to sink," said Steve Rintoul, a senior scientist at the Australian government-funded CSIRO Marine Science. "Changes would be felt ... around the globe," said Rintoul, who recently led a multinational team of scientists on an expedition to sample deep-basin water south of Western Australia to the Antarctic. Water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor is formed in polar regions by surface water freezing, which concentrates salt in very cold water beneath the ice. The dense water then sinks. Only a few places around Antarctica and in the northern Atlantic create water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor, making Antarctic "bottom water" crucial to global ocean currents. But the freshening of Antarctic deep water was a sign that the "overturning circulation" system in the world's oceans might be slowing down, Rintoul said, and similar trends are occurring in the North Atlantic. For the so-called Atlantic Conveyor, the surface warm water current meets the Greenland ice sheet then cools and sinks, heading south again and driving the conveyor belt process. But researchers fear increased melting of the Greenland ice sheet risks disrupting the conveyor. If it stops, temperatures in northern Europe would plunge. Rintoul, who has led teams tracking water density around the Antarctic through decades of readings, said his findings add to concerns about a "strangling" of the Southern Ocean by greenhouse gases and global warming. Australian scientists warned last month that waters surrounding Antarctica were also becoming more acidic as they absorbed more carbon dioxide produced by nations burning fossil fuels. Acidification of the ocean is affecting the ability of plankton -- microscopic marine plants, animals and bacteria -- to absorb carbon dioxide, reducing the ocean's ability to sink greenhouse gases to the bottom of the sea. Rintoul said that global warming was also changing wind patterns in the Antarctic region, drawing them south away from the Australian mainland and causing declining rainfall in western and possibly eastern coastal areas. This was contributing to drought in Australia, one of the world's top agricultural producers, he said. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Johansen, Kjell Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:51 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Therefore, I conclude that the extremist position is the one taken by the person who sits around wanting more conclusive proof before taking any action to lower the consequences of global climate change. Kjell Johansen Whitefish Bay, WI _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sjd at swcp.com Thu Mar 22 20:59:33 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:59:33 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.n et> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322181057.009e8380@mail.swcp.com> March 22 In reply to Ruth Sponsler I (Steven Dapra [SD]) wrote: At the same time, global warming proponents are moaning and groaning about CO2. According to the above link, [< http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html>] 186 billion tons of CO2 are produced every year. Six billion of these tons are man-made a mere three percent. The other 97% comes from natural biological processes in the ocean, and from decaying plant matter. As can plainly be seen, the human contribution to greenhouse gases is insignificant. Kjell Johansen replied to me, saying: "It is my understanding from meteorology classes that while water vapor acts as a green house gas, the amount of water vapor in the air depends upon the temprature. Increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere traps more heat which in turn generates the water vapor by evaporating liquids. Long story short, without the driving force of carbon dioxide, and other gases such as methane (which has about 16x more forcing power than CO2), there would not be much water vapor to ta act as a greenhouse gas." SD: I have never taken a meteorology class. What you say sounds plausible. How did you manage to overlook what I said, to wit, only three percent (3%) of CO2 is man-made? Are you saying that this 3% from humans is the sole (or major) cause of evaporation? As a corollary of this, are you also saying the naturally produced 97% of CO2, that we humans can not control, has nothing to do with any alleged global warming? It will be futile to drag out methane and its 16x forcing power. There is even less man-made methane than there is man-made CO2, so even with its 16x forcing power it still can't even begin to approach the influence of the 97% CO2 that occurs naturally. Kjell also wrote: "To suddenly (200 years is sudden on the geological time scale) dump large amounts of carbon which has been sequesterd in the earth for millions of years into the atmosphere and expect that the earth's biogeochemical cycles will not be upset is not logical." SD Approximately how much CO2 has been dumped into the atmosphere in the preceding 200 y, and how does that amount compare in actual tonnage, and in percentage, to the amount that has been dumped by natural processes during the same period? You wrote, Kjell, "It is a form of reverse hubris to think that humanity can not effect [sic] global climate change." I would say it is a form of stupendous arrogance and vast, un-warranted self-assurance to say that humanity *can* affect the earth's biogeochemical cycles. A mere foot of snow will paralyze most cities in the United States. Six inches of rain causes everyone to go into a panic about how the dams or the levees will break and wash everyone and everything away. What makes us humans think we can do so much, or that we can have any influence at all on nature. A simple windstorm will tear a roof off a multi-million dollar building. Who do we think we're fooling? Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com From sjd at swcp.com Thu Mar 22 20:26:40 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:26:40 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20070322143838.033d3768@pop.aecom.yu.edu> References: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.n et> <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322181504.009e8380@mail.swcp.com> March 22 My thanks to Bob Casparius for posting this very clear NCDC explanation of the role of water vapor, accompanied by the explanation of what we *do not* know. So there is no confusion or uncertainty on anyone's part, that link I offered was not to my site, nor do I necessarily accept everything that was said on the site. (See the end of Bob's posting.) I do not know if the site was promoting coal or not and can't comment on that. Bob suggested that the site might be biased in its discussion of global warming and his suggestion may well be true, I don't know. It cannot be said often enough that *everyone* has a bias, and we might do well to keep that in mind. With respect to strip mining, it may not be a pretty sight, however it has nothing to do with global warming. The UMTRA project left us with some rather large tailings piles. I know some of that is from bomb production, however some of it is from reactor fuel too -- at least I assume it is. I could stand to be corrected on that point. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 02:57 PM 3/22/07 -0400, Bob Casparius wrote: >The National Climate Data Center [NCDC] even says that any increase in >water vapor in the atmosphere is due to increases in atmospheric >temperature. Therefore, the increased atmospheric temperature must be due >to something other than increased water vapor. And if there is increased >water vapor in the atmosphere it is due to increased atmospheric temp. > >The following is from http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html > >"Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, which >is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its concentration >is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the >warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of >industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is >critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet is >still fairly poorly measured and understood. > >As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated from >ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is >warmer, the relative humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is able >to 'hold' more water when its warmer), leading to more water vapor in the >atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water vapor >is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, >thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then hold >more water vapor and so on and so on. This is referred to as a 'positive >feedback loop'. However, huge scientific uncertainty exists in defining >the extent and importance of this feedback loop. As water vapor increases >in the atmosphere, more of it will eventually also condense into clouds, >which are more able to reflect incoming solar radiation (thus allowing >less energy to reach the Earth's surface and heat it up). The future >monitoring of atmospheric processes involving water vapor will be critical >to fully understand the feedbacks in the climate system leading to global >climate change. As yet, though the basics of the hydrological cycle are >fairly well understood, we have very little comprehension of the >complexity of the feedback loops. Also, while we have good atmospheric >measurements of other key greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide and >methane, we have poor measurements of global water vapor, so it is not >certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in recent >decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined with balloon >data and some in-situ ground measurements indicate generally positive >trends in global water vapor." > >The website: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html > >That Steven Dapra sites appears to be promoting coal as an energy source, >which is another source of CO2 when burned. This makes you wonder if they >are not bias in their presentation of global warming. Check out the >discussion of strip mining: > >http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/StripMiner.html > >Bob [edit] From sjd at swcp.com Thu Mar 22 20:35:49 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:35:49 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322182917.009fadd0@mail.swcp.com> March 22 Where did you get this stuff about Monte and Harrison Hieb? You provided no source. More to the point, what do coal mining injuries and fatalities have to do with global warming, CO2, and so forth? In another posting you accused me of making a straw man argument and of passing along a lie. It seems to me you are dragging around a red herring. Or is this guilt by association? WV has a lot of mining fatalities so what the Hiebs say about global warming is false. If the Hieb's page is "primarily disinformation," why couldn't you take the time to give us even one example? Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 01:43 PM 3/22/07 -0700, Dukelow, James S Jr wrote: >Brian P. Riely wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Riely, Brian P. >Sent: Tue 3/20/2007 1:12 PM >To: radsafe at radlab.nl >Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle > >Informative article: > >http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html > > > >========================= > >Radsafe readers can find a detail rebuttal of the cherry-picked arguments >in the cited web page at >the web page > >info-pollution.com/chill.html > >Further, the web page Brian Riely cites is put together by Monte and >Harrison Hieb. Monte Hieb works, apparently as an engineer, with the West >Virginia Office of Miners Health Safety and Training, in the Oak Hill >Regional Office. The MHST web site includes the information that WV had >27 miner fatalities and 1547 injuries in 2006, among either 20,600 or >36,000 people employed in the industry (the web page's information here is >ambiguous). > >The Hieb's web site is primarily devoted to WV plant fossil >paleontology. Their global warming pages are primarily disinformation. > >Best regards. > >Jim Dukelow >Pacific Northwest National Laboratory >Richland WA >jim.dukelow at pnl.gov > >These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my >management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. From sjd at swcp.com Thu Mar 22 21:01:45 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 19:01:45 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: References: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322185513.009fadd0@mail.swcp.com> March 22 On March 20 Steven Dapra (SD) wrote: "This is a very informative website with a lot of useful and equally informative links. My thanks to Brian Riely for posting this link. It is beginning to look like man-made "global warming" is a fraud and a hoax. It would seem that the earth is in a cycle of warming, and that man-made chemicals have nothing to do with the current warming trend. When you find that the peddlers of global warming are covering up or ignoring the role of water vapor (which is 95% of the gases that cause warming) you can't help but be skeptical -- both of man-made global warming, and skeptical of the honesty of the people pushing it." Jim Dukelow wrote: "There are two technical terms for the argument that Steven Dapra is advancing here. One is "straw man". You create a fictitious argument that none your debating opponents actually believes and then proceed to burn it down (up?). No educated climate scientist anywhere in the world is not aware that water vapor is responsible for most of the greenhouse gas warming effect that makes the earth's surface roughly 33 deg C warmer than it would be if we didn't have an atmosphere that contained greenhouse gases. Every general circulation model incorporates the greenhouse gas effect of water vapor. In fact, the warming predicted by GCM's is roughly twice what would be expected from the anthropogenic emission CO2, CH4, nitrous oxide, and CFCs, specifically because the warming that those gases produce will result in more water vapor in the atmosphere -- see the Clausius-Clapeyron equation. SD I am not advancing a straw man argument. I did not know water vapor was a greenhouse gas until I began reading this thread and some of the linked material. The popular press seems to have largely covered that up, or ignored it. My comments about global warming have little to do with 'educated climate scientists,' they are about the deceitful way in which it is presented to the general public. (I am not creating any "fictitious argument" about 'educated climate scientists'.) Jim Dukelow: "The second technical term for the argument is "lie". I assume that Steven Dapra is just ignorantly passing along this particular lie being propagated by right-wing disinformationists that are well aware that it is a lie. SD I did not knowingly pass along a lie. All you have done so far, Jim, is accuse the Hiebs of propounding claims that are "primarily disinformation," and claim that some argument is a "lie." You have given no examples. True, you have a link replying to some cherry-picked arguments. Why don't you say something specific? Why are you saying these alleged "disinformationists" are on the right-wing? How do you know what wing they occupy? Thus far your allegation seems to be baseless. Do you hope to accomplish any constructive end by hurling objurgations? Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com From GELSG at aol.com Thu Mar 22 20:13:44 2007 From: GELSG at aol.com (GELSG at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:13:44 EDT Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle Message-ID: Jim: Many years ago, a professor of mine gave us all excellent advice: "A wise man is one who knows what he does not know." Since then, I have learned many times that a person who does not know his/her limitations is (or has the potential to be) very dangerous in a scientific discussion. I agree with your comments. Jerry Gels In a message dated 3/22/2007 5:13:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jim.dukelow at pnl.gov writes: More generally, many contributors to this discussion have said something on the order of "I don't know much (or anything) about climate science, but I know who I am ideologically comfortable believing". Almost everyone reading and contributing to RADSAFE is capable of informing themselves about the the facts of climate scientists so that they can make informed choices of what policies to support. Best regards. Jim Dukelow ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From robert.atkinson at genetix.com Fri Mar 23 03:13:25 2007 From: robert.atkinson at genetix.com (Robert Atkinson) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:13:25 -0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6E0@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <260B27D627B0C84E864BAC459B702555061BFA@exch01.GENETIX.LOCAL> Hi. There is one other issue to consider, what exact model and type of GM probe/meter is being mandated. There are energy compensated GM tubes (fitted with filters to attenuate the lower energy gammas that cause the GM tube to over-respond). While some are better than others it is possible to get an accurate dose response from a properly designed and calibrated meter with the matching probe. Many use fixed tubes so that a non compensated tube cannot be used in error. Robert -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: 22 March 2007 18:10 To: 'Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Joel, I am in 100% agreement with you and your comments. I assume the "employer" has their reasons for not simply utilizing an ion chamber (you can reply privately). Regards, Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:20 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ -------------------------------------------------------- Genetix Limited - Queensway, New Milton, Hampshire, BH25 5NN Registered in England No. 2660050 www.genetix.com Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily Genetix Ltd (Genetix) or any company associated with it. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify Genetix by telephone on +44 (0)1425 624600. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. This mail and any attachments have been scanned for viruses prior to leaving Genetix network. Genetix will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages as a result of any virus being passed on, or arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party. -------------------------------------------------------- From A.vanderKooij at TUDelft.nl Fri Mar 23 03:40:29 2007 From: A.vanderKooij at TUDelft.nl (Aad van der Kooij) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 09:40:29 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement In-Reply-To: <7DB6DF83D2CD9140ADA0622B1A05BF2F048EAA3F@nawespscez02> Message-ID: <000b01c76d26$e9a2bd90$9dc8a182@Irisbq> Well, by the time I received this message it was Friday ... The response of a GM tube can be tuned by using filters around (parts of)the tube. For example: http://www.hps.org/hpspublications/articles/allard.html And yes, you are right about questioning what is going on! Dose rates are expressed per unit of time and(TGIF)dose in Sv so: Sv.h-1 -) Enjoy your weekend! Aad van der Kooij RPO TU Delft (NL) -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:20 To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. First a short introduction: My current employer appears to be mandating/authorizing the use of Geiger Mueller (GM) detectors to measure dose rates in Roentgens (the meters read "capital" R, not "r") . As many of you know, a given instrument intended for performing quantitative measurements will respond differently to various energies of a given radiation, and a GM tube's response is quite energy dependent. As the GM's are calibrated with Cs-137 the response to other x-ray/gamma sources (of other energies/strength) can be quite different than what one would measure with an ion chamber - i.e. the energy dependence of the instrument must be known and accounted for in order to make accurate quantitative measurements. A short Discussion: I'm not sure that my employer realizes that by utilizing a GM for measurement of (a wide energy-range of) gamma/x-rays they are creating the potential for overexposure conditions (where in some/many cases one should be utilizing an ion chamber). Exposure vs dose, Bragg-Gray and kerma considerations put aside for now, I was taught to always utilize an Ion Chamber if I REALLY wanted to know the dose-rates (I use a pressurized ion-chamber myself for a wider range of energy response). After all, last I knew, "exposure" was still defined in terms of the amount of ionization charge created in AIR - and I believe that the fundamental SI unit of exposure still corresponds to that amount of x-or gamma radiation who's associated secondary electrons create an ionization charge of on coulomb per kilogram of dry air at STP. Anyone know of a GM that utilizes 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen for a counting gas? So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh Std. Disclaimer... The thoughts, discussion and opinion(s) above are mine and mine only, not that of my employer and, of course, I am in no way asserting/suggesting that my employer is doing anything wrong. This is only a topic for a philosophical Health Physics discussion and I would value your opinion(s) on the matter. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk Fri Mar 23 03:51:33 2007 From: Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk (Dawson, Fred Mr) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:51:33 -0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Armour-piercing ice cream a replacement for DU? Message-ID: New Scientist reports: http://www.newscientist.com/backpage.ns?id=mg19325952.900 "Armour-piercing ice cream ONE of the unwritten rules of public relations is that friendly images can make nasty things seem less so. However, this example from Ames Laboratory in Iowa leaves Feedback's head echoing with cognitive dissonance: "Armour-piercing projectiles made of depleted uranium have caused concern among soldiers storing and using them. Now, scientists at the US Department of Energy's Ames Laboratory are close to developing a new composite with an internal structure resembling fudge-ripple ice cream that is actually comprised of environmentally safe materials to do the job even better." Environmentally safe armour-piercing fudge-ripple ice cream? How nice" Fred Dawson . From maurysis at peoplepc.com Fri Mar 23 05:10:12 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 04:10:12 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Armour-piercing ice cream a replacement for DU? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4603A784.3000703@peoplepc.com> Perhaps we could stop tanks by attacking them with dry ice peanuts. They could be stored and delivered more easily than ice cream .... An admitted drawback is the added global warming by releasing the peanuts in open air ..... Cheers, Maury&Dog (Maury Siskel maurysis at peoplepc.com) ========================== Dawson, Fred Mr wrote: > New Scientist reports: > http://www.newscientist.com/backpage.ns?id=mg19325952.900 > "Armour-piercing ice cream ONE of the unwritten rules of public > relations is that friendly images can make nasty things seem less so. > However, this example from Ames Laboratory in Iowa leaves Feedback's > head echoing with cognitive dissonance: "Armour-piercing projectiles > made of depleted uranium have caused concern among soldiers storing > and using them. Now, scientists at the US Department of Energy's Ames > Laboratory are close to developing a > new composite with an internal structure resembling fudge-ripple ice > cream that is actually comprised of environmentally safe materials to > do the job even better." > Environmentally safe armour-piercing fudge-ripple ice cream? How nice" > > Fred Dawson > . > From maurysis at peoplepc.com Fri Mar 23 06:45:55 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 05:45:55 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322185513.009fadd0@mail.swcp.com> References: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070322185513.009fadd0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <4603BDF3.5000801@peoplepc.com> And TO other interested participants ..... This thing is beginning to take on some depressing aspects even though (I'm confident) none of the participants intended any such outcome. I have never previously heard lies or straw men referred to as technical terms and no one wished a participant to unsubscribe to the List. This controversy is serious science and engineering to most concerned because it bears heavily on the potential utility of nuclear power. I'd like to see explicit disagreements with the article by the Hieb's. And as more exchanges take place, I wonder more and more why there has not been a peep out of opposing teams about the paper (the content, not the irrelevant "problems" over where it appeared, and so on) by Z. Jaworowski: which (again) can be seen at: http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2007/2007_10-19/2007-11/pdf/38_711_science.pdf That paper is by a widely recognized scientist who has worked and published in realms of climatology. Agree or not, the contents of that paper are assembled very well and are extremely well documented. Aside from my limited impressions, I hope some will read the darn thing and stop the concern over why it happened to be published where it was. Given the unfortunate history of some esteemed western journals, I suggest that there might be some eastern Europeans who wonder why people publish in them. That simply is usually a very minor scientific issue, no matter how great it might seem to 'great' universities, government agencies, and large industries. Science welcomes information and data whether or not scientists do so. The content and reliability of the data are what count. Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc com) ==================== Steven Dapra wrote: > March 22 > > On March 20 Steven Dapra (SD) wrote: > > "This is a very informative website with a lot of useful and equally > informative links. My thanks to Brian Riely for posting this link. It > is beginning to look like man-made "global warming" is a fraud and a > hoax. It would seem that the earth is in a cycle of warming, and that > man-made chemicals have nothing to do with -------------------snipped----------- From zfrexon at yahoo.com Fri Mar 23 00:54:39 2007 From: zfrexon at yahoo.com (Zaid Farukhi) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Williston-Elin Irradiator Repair Message-ID: <54286.89938.qm@web56602.mail.re3.yahoo.com> We are a US company that refurbishes any manufacturers' Dosimetry, Scintillation Detectors, and Electronic equipment. We can help in the repair of irradiators and other dosimetry equipment. We will provide you a diagnosis on the irradiator free of charge. All you would be responsible for is Shipping/Handling to our factory and back to your facility. Rexon TLD Systems also manufactures and designs our line of irradiators as well. Please contact us at: Zaid Farukhi Rexon TLD Systems, Inc. 24500 Highpoint Rd Beachwood, OH 44122 Phone: 216-292-7373 Fax: 216-292-7714 www.rexon.com email: zfrexon at yahoo.com, sales at rexon.com ------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:08:30 -0400 From: Subject: [ RadSafe ] Williston-Elin To: Message-ID: <51F5591FCBAC7447BC3BBEF5FEFFBF7B0938C5BF at dohsmailhq07.doh.ad.state.fl.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We have a Williston-Elin irradiator in need of repair and support. Does anyone know of a US company that will provide service support? Does anyone have a copy of the complete technical manual for the unit? Reno J. Fabii Environmental Specialist II Florida Dept. of Health Bureau of Radiation Control Phone: (407) 297-2096 Ext. 240 Fax: (407) 297-2085 reno_fabii at doh.state.fl.us radsafe-request at radlab.nl wrote: Send radsafe mailing list submissions to radsafe at radlab.nl To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.radlab.nl/mailman/listinfo/radsafe or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to radsafe-request at radlab.nl You can reach the person managing the list at radsafe-owner at radlab.nl When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of radsafe digest..." Important! To keep threads/discussions more easily readible please observe the following guideline when replying to a message or digest: When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of radsafe digest ... and - rather than enclose an entire article that you quote only the germane sentence to which you're responding". _______________________________________________ Today's Topics: 1. Re: Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine (John Jacobus) 2. Re: IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine (John Jacobus) 3. AW: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine (Rainer.Facius at dlr.de) 4. Williston-Elin (Reno_Fabii at doh.state.fl.us) 5. LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise ("Yellow cake") (John Jacobus) 6. RE: LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise("Yellow cake") (Conklin, Al (DOH)) 7. Radiation Safety Training at Harvard (Harvard Health Professional Training) 8. FYI (LNMolino at aol.com) 9. Re: Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine (Michael McNaughton) 10. RCT Salary Survey (Keith Welch) 11. RE: Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine (Emer, Dudley) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:28:40 -0700 (PDT) From: John Jacobus Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine To: Diane Griffiths , Steven Dapra , radsafe at radlab.nl Message-ID: <305841.91118.qm at web54306.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Diane, You may have to accept that fact that they may not want you accept ANY evidence that you present to them. This appears to be a statistical cluster when rare event, two technologist out of xx get breast cancer. Statistically, it can happen, like winning the lottery. But, now many times this CAN happen is rare. You might want to ask them how many of their friends or relative who have not worked around radiation have breast cancer. They are probably both in their late 40s and early 50s, so the natural incidences of breast cancer should be evident. My wife made that comment that several of her friends had breast cancer. After looking at the issue from the natural incidence rate, it be came clear that this was to be expected. I wish you luck on this. You are dealing with emotions that these technologists feel. --- Diane Griffiths wrote: > Thanks y'all, you are giving me some more ideas to > try and more areas to research. > > I gave them an extensive training packet with their > yearly training last October that explained > background radiation, natural radiation, even > explained that K40 in the body is radioactive. I > also gave them yearly background averages, as well > as medical procedure averages. Told them about > biological effects, and at what exposures they > occured (and said it was XX times their exposures). > In addition, I told them about time, distance, > shielding. (To which they made me show that the > Angio suite IS shielded by placing sources in there > and demonstrating the geiger counter readings). I > had a few articles on breast cancer risk to Nuclear > Medicine techs and some of the studies some of you > mentioned. (Then they tell me last week that they > have never been trained. And argued that fact with > me until I showed them the sign in sheet and > training packet and then they all of a sudden > remembered.) > > They told me they wanted specific examples of if > females in other hospitals working with radiation > got breast cancer. (Even though the two female > Nuclear Medicine techs have had no problems and have > been in the field for 24 years each). At that point > I compared their exposures to the Nuc Med techs. > They said that they understood what I was telling > them, but they were still scared. (Then after the > meeting they told the Nuclear tech that my meeting > with them did not help at all.) > > One nurse said it is like if two people got run over > by a car on the same street and location. It is not > the fact that the street is not safe, but they would > be scared to cross at the same location cause they > would probably get hurt at that location also. > > So what they told me they wanted was specific > examples from other hospitals that less than 20% got > breast cancer from working around radiation and they > might feel better about it. They wanted me to call > all the hospitals in town and get information on how > many of the female techs got breast cancer. > > So any of you in hospitals have any female techs > that got breast cancer, or didn't? Any numbers out > there? > > Diane > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:31:55 -0700 (PDT) From: John Jacobus Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine To: Jerry Cuttler , "Muckerheide, Jim \(CDA\)" , Patricia Lewis , Barbra Erickson , RAD-SCI-L Cc: "Scott, Bobby" , Ted Rockwell , Edward Calabrese , Ron Mitchel , Jodi.Strzelczyk at UCHSC.edu, TD Luckey , Myron Pollycove , Ludwig Feinendegen , radsafe at radlab.nl, Peter Deetjen , Christoph K?stinger , "M Vogel @MSU" , "Robert J. Cihak" Message-ID: <286560.410.qm at web54310.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 And what does this have to do with radon? Or radon mines? Or ranges of motion? --- Jerry Cuttler wrote: > Here's one that used x-rays. > There are many more ... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Jacobus" > To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > ; "Patricia Lewis" > ; "Barbra Erickson" > ; "RAD-SCI-L" > > Cc: "Scott, Bobby" ; "Christoph > K?stinger" > ; "Ted Rockwell" > ; > "Edward Calabrese" ; > "Ron Mitchel" > ; "Jerry Cuttler" > ; "Myron > Pollycove" ; "Ludwig > Feinendegen" > ; "Peter Deetjen" > ; "M Vogel > @MSU" ; "TD Luckey" > ; "Robert J. > Cihak" ; > ; > > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 4:12 PM > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of > Motion assessment at > radonmine > > > > Jim, > > Yes, it should be subjective. > > > > Rather than larger studies, physiological > parameters > > should be measured. Are you aware of any radon > > studies that evaluated such factors as antibodies, > > lymphocytes? > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:47:47 +0100 From: Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine To: , , , Message-ID: <1B5EBED4E01074419C07EEF9D3802FDA0134E02E at exbe02.intra.dlr.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Very well said, John; also your preceding comment regarding the proper sources to consult. Kind regards, Rainer -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von John Jacobus Gesendet: Montag, 12. M?rz 2007 14:29 An: Diane Griffiths; Steven Dapra; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk,and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine Diane, You may have to accept that fact that they may not want you accept ANY evidence that you present to them. This appears to be a statistical cluster when rare event, two technologist out of xx get breast cancer. Statistically, it can happen, like winning the lottery. But, now many times this CAN happen is rare. You might want to ask them how many of their friends or relative who have not worked around radiation have breast cancer. They are probably both in their late 40s and early 50s, so the natural incidences of breast cancer should be evident. My wife made that comment that several of her friends had breast cancer. After looking at the issue from the natural incidence rate, it be came clear that this was to be expected. I wish you luck on this. You are dealing with emotions that these technologists feel. --- Diane Griffiths wrote: > Thanks y'all, you are giving me some more ideas to try and more areas > to research. > > I gave them an extensive training packet with their yearly training > last October that explained background radiation, natural radiation, > even explained that K40 in the body is radioactive. I also gave them > yearly background averages, as well as medical procedure averages. > Told them about biological effects, and at what exposures they occured > (and said it was XX times their exposures). > In addition, I told them about time, distance, shielding. (To which > they made me show that the Angio suite IS shielded by placing sources > in there and demonstrating the geiger counter readings). I had a few > articles on breast cancer risk to Nuclear Medicine techs and some of > the studies some of you mentioned. (Then they tell me last week that > they have never been trained. And argued that fact with me until I > showed them the sign in sheet and training packet and then they all of > a sudden > remembered.) > > They told me they wanted specific examples of if females in other > hospitals working with radiation got breast cancer. (Even though the > two female Nuclear Medicine techs have had no problems and have been > in the field for 24 years each). At that point I compared their > exposures to the Nuc Med techs. > They said that they understood what I was telling them, but they were > still scared. (Then after the meeting they told the Nuclear tech that > my meeting with them did not help at all.) > > One nurse said it is like if two people got run over by a car on the > same street and location. It is not the fact that the street is not > safe, but they would be scared to cross at the same location cause > they would probably get hurt at that location also. > > So what they told me they wanted was specific examples from other > hospitals that less than 20% got breast cancer from working around > radiation and they might feel better about it. They wanted me to call > all the hospitals in town and get information on how many of the > female techs got breast cancer. > > So any of you in hospitals have any female techs that got breast > cancer, or didn't? Any numbers out there? > > Diane > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:08:30 -0400 From: Subject: [ RadSafe ] Williston-Elin To: Message-ID: <51F5591FCBAC7447BC3BBEF5FEFFBF7B0938C5BF at dohsmailhq07.doh.ad.state.fl.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We have a Williston-Elin irradiator in need of repair and support. Does anyone know of a US company that will provide service support? Does anyone have a copy of the complete technical manual for the unit? Reno J. Fabii Environmental Specialist II Florida Dept. of Health Bureau of Radiation Control Phone: (407) 297-2096 Ext. 240 Fax: (407) 297-2085 reno_fabii at doh.state.fl.us ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) From: John Jacobus Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise ("Yellow cake") To: radsafe , know_nukes at yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <540143.12297.qm at web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-uranium12mar12,1,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an estate sale. By Stephen Hudak Orlando Sentinel March 12, 2007 BELLEVIEW, FLA. ? Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's junk and tchotchkes. His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an estate sale," Cafaro said. "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? I think that's illegal.' " Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic security task force. They focused on a container the size of a soup can. Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or enriched for weapons. In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro said. The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for disposal. Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not pose a serious threat in small quantities. "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially dangerous. +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:44:44 -0700 From: "Conklin, Al \(DOH\)" Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise("Yellow cake") To: "John Jacobus" , "radsafe" , Message-ID: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF at dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my office; "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John Jacobus Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive === message truncated === --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. From sam_iverstine at yahoo.com Fri Mar 23 07:34:37 2007 From: sam_iverstine at yahoo.com (Sam Iverstine) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 05:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement In-Reply-To: <000b01c76d26$e9a2bd90$9dc8a182@Irisbq> Message-ID: <281217.43791.qm@web50106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Great topic. Great link to energy response curves. One's employer could spend less on an ion chamber than the two days of your time and large errors associated with applying curves and filters, in my opinion. But it might be fun to overcome the challenge. This brings me to my question for radsafe: What is the best hand held ion chamber to purchase for mainly radiology uses? The best I can find are the 450 and 451P's by Victoreen. Sometimes these meters give erratic readings due to temperature or mechanical agitation (dropping). They do have a good response rate and accurate digital readout over all energies of interest. The plastic case is water-resistant and filters fewer low energy photons (than a metallic encased meter). But there must be something better in this millennia? Thanks for any response. Sam Iverstine, MS, CHP Aad van der Kooij wrote: Well, by the time I received this message it was Friday ... The response of a GM tube can be tuned by using filters around (parts of)the tube. For example: http://www.hps.org/hpspublications/articles/allard.html And yes, you are right about questioning what is going on! Dose rates are expressed per unit of time and(TGIF)dose in Sv so: Sv.h-1 -) Enjoy your weekend! Aad van der Kooij RPO TU Delft (NL) -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:20 To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. First a short introduction: My current employer appears to be mandating/authorizing the use of Geiger Mueller (GM) detectors to measure dose rates in Roentgens (the meters read "capital" R, not "r") . As many of you know, a given instrument intended for performing quantitative measurements will respond differently to various energies of a given radiation, and a GM tube's response is quite energy dependent. As the GM's are calibrated with Cs-137 the response to other x-ray/gamma sources (of other energies/strength) can be quite different than what one would measure with an ion chamber - i.e. the energy dependence of the instrument must be known and accounted for in order to make accurate quantitative measurements. A short Discussion: I'm not sure that my employer realizes that by utilizing a GM for measurement of (a wide energy-range of) gamma/x-rays they are creating the potential for overexposure conditions (where in some/many cases one should be utilizing an ion chamber). Exposure vs dose, Bragg-Gray and kerma considerations put aside for now, I was taught to always utilize an Ion Chamber if I REALLY wanted to know the dose-rates (I use a pressurized ion-chamber myself for a wider range of energy response). After all, last I knew, "exposure" was still defined in terms of the amount of ionization charge created in AIR - and I believe that the fundamental SI unit of exposure still corresponds to that amount of x-or gamma radiation who's associated secondary electrons create an ionization charge of on coulomb per kilogram of dry air at STP. Anyone know of a GM that utilizes 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen for a counting gas? So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh Std. Disclaimer... The thoughts, discussion and opinion(s) above are mine and mine only, not that of my employer and, of course, I am in no way asserting/suggesting that my employer is doing anything wrong. This is only a topic for a philosophical Health Physics discussion and I would value your opinion(s) on the matter. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. From Jim_Hardeman at dnr.state.ga.us Fri Mar 23 08:28:09 2007 From: Jim_Hardeman at dnr.state.ga.us (Jim Hardeman) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 09:28:09 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Article: Radiation Myths Harming Public Health Message-ID: Colleagues -- This article is a review by Dr. Jay Lehr of "Underexposed: What if Radiation is Actually Good for You?" by Ed Hiserodt. URL = http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=20823 Jim Hardeman, Manager Environmental Radiation Program Environmental Protection Division Georgia Department of Natural Resources 4220 International Parkway, Suite 100 Atlanta, GA 30354 (404) 362-2675 Fax: (404) 362-2653 E-mail: Jim_Hardeman at dnr.state.ga.us From caspar at aecom.yu.edu Fri Mar 23 08:53:32 2007 From: caspar at aecom.yu.edu (Bob Casparius) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 09:53:32 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322181504.009e8380@mail.swcp.com> References: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.n et> <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> <5.2.1.1.1.20070322181504.009e8380@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20070323092657.03538888@pop.aecom.yu.edu> Steven, What they are saying is that they do not have a significant understanding of "by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in recent decades or centuries". They clearly understand that water vapor needs warmer atmospheric temperatures in order to increase in concentration. So it is not the water vapor that is causing the rise in temperatures. It is the increase in temperature that may be causing the increase in water vapor. Which brings us back to CO2 causing the increase in atmospheric temps. causing an increase in the amount of water vapor, which as we agree is a greenhouse gas. So maybe it is contributing to the problem. But only because it is a by-product of the original problem man-made CO2 being dumped into the atmosphere. Bob At 09:26 PM 3/22/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: >March 22 > > My thanks to Bob Casparius for posting this very clear NCDC > explanation of the role of water vapor, accompanied by the explanation of > what we *do not* know. > > So there is no confusion or uncertainty on anyone's part, that > link I offered was not to my site, nor do I necessarily accept everything > that was said on the site. (See the end of Bob's posting.) I do not > know if the site was promoting coal or not and can't comment on > that. Bob suggested that the site might be biased in its discussion of > global warming and his suggestion may well be true, I don't know. It > cannot be said often enough that *everyone* has a bias, and we might do > well to keep that in mind. With respect to strip mining, it may not be a > pretty sight, however it has nothing to do with global warming. The > UMTRA project left us with some rather large tailings piles. I know some > of that is from bomb production, however some of it is from reactor fuel > too -- at least I assume it is. I could stand to be corrected on that point. > >Steven Dapra >sjd at swcp.com > > > >At 02:57 PM 3/22/07 -0400, Bob Casparius wrote: >>The National Climate Data Center [NCDC] even says that any increase in >>water vapor in the atmosphere is due to increases in atmospheric >>temperature. Therefore, the increased atmospheric temperature must be due >>to something other than increased water vapor. And if there is increased >>water vapor in the atmosphere it is due to increased atmospheric temp. >> >>The following is from http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html >> >>"Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, which >>is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its concentration >>is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the >>warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of >>industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is >>critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet is >>still fairly poorly measured and understood. >> >>As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated from >>ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is >>warmer, the relative humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is able >>to 'hold' more water when its warmer), leading to more water vapor in the >>atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water vapor >>is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, >>thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then hold >>more water vapor and so on and so on. This is referred to as a 'positive >>feedback loop'. However, huge scientific uncertainty exists in defining >>the extent and importance of this feedback loop. As water vapor increases >>in the atmosphere, more of it will eventually also condense into clouds, >>which are more able to reflect incoming solar radiation (thus allowing >>less energy to reach the Earth's surface and heat it up). The future >>monitoring of atmospheric processes involving water vapor will be >>critical to fully understand the feedbacks in the climate system leading >>to global climate change. As yet, though the basics of the hydrological >>cycle are fairly well understood, we have very little comprehension of >>the complexity of the feedback loops. Also, while we have good >>atmospheric measurements of other key greenhouse gases such as carbon >>dioxide and methane, we have poor measurements of global water vapor, so >>it is not certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in >>recent decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined with >>balloon data and some in-situ ground measurements indicate generally >>positive trends in global water vapor." >> >>The website: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html >> >>That Steven Dapra sites appears to be promoting coal as an energy source, >>which is another source of CO2 when burned. This makes you wonder if they >>are not bias in their presentation of global warming. Check out the >>discussion of strip mining: >> >>http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/StripMiner.html >> >>Bob > >[edit] > > > >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Robert Casparius Radiation Safety Officer AECOM Department of Environmental Health & Safety x2243 http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ehs/Secondary%20Sites/AE_Radiation.htm From caspar at aecom.yu.edu Fri Mar 23 09:03:41 2007 From: caspar at aecom.yu.edu (Bob Casparius) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:03:41 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322181504.009e8380@mail.swcp.com> References: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.n et> <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> <5.2.1.1.1.20070322181504.009e8380@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20070323095950.034a8010@pop.aecom.yu.edu> Steven, This is from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas and accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect. Water vapor concentrations fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not directly affect water vapor concentrations except at very local scales. In climate models an increase in atmospheric temperature caused by the greenhouse effect due to anthropogenic gases will in turn lead to an increase in the water vapor content of the troposphere, with approximately constant relative humidity. The increased water vapor in turn leads to an increase in the greenhouse effect and thus a further increase in temperature; the increase in temperature leads to still further increase in atmospheric water vapor; and the feedback cycle continues until equilibrium is reached. Thus water vapor acts as a positive feedback to the forcing provided by human-released greenhouse gases such as CO2[9] (but has never, so far, acted on Earth as part of a runaway feedback). Changes in water vapor may also have indirect effects via cloud formation. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) IPCC Third Assessment Report chapter lead author Michael Mann considers citing "the role of water vapor as a greenhouse gas" to be "extremely misleading" as water vapor can not be controlled by humans.[10][11][12] The IPCC report has discussed water vapor feedback in more detail.[13] Bob At 09:26 PM 3/22/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: >March 22 > > My thanks to Bob Casparius for posting this very clear NCDC > explanation of the role of water vapor, accompanied by the explanation of > what we *do not* know. > > So there is no confusion or uncertainty on anyone's part, that > link I offered was not to my site, nor do I necessarily accept everything > that was said on the site. (See the end of Bob's posting.) I do not > know if the site was promoting coal or not and can't comment on > that. Bob suggested that the site might be biased in its discussion of > global warming and his suggestion may well be true, I don't know. It > cannot be said often enough that *everyone* has a bias, and we might do > well to keep that in mind. With respect to strip mining, it may not be a > pretty sight, however it has nothing to do with global warming. The > UMTRA project left us with some rather large tailings piles. I know some > of that is from bomb production, however some of it is from reactor fuel > too -- at least I assume it is. I could stand to be corrected on that point. > >Steven Dapra >sjd at swcp.com > > > >At 02:57 PM 3/22/07 -0400, Bob Casparius wrote: >>The National Climate Data Center [NCDC] even says that any increase in >>water vapor in the atmosphere is due to increases in atmospheric >>temperature. Therefore, the increased atmospheric temperature must be due >>to something other than increased water vapor. And if there is increased >>water vapor in the atmosphere it is due to increased atmospheric temp. >> >>The following is from http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html >> >>"Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, which >>is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its concentration >>is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the >>warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of >>industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is >>critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet is >>still fairly poorly measured and understood. >> >>As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated from >>ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is >>warmer, the relative humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is able >>to 'hold' more water when its warmer), leading to more water vapor in the >>atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water vapor >>is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, >>thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then hold >>more water vapor and so on and so on. This is referred to as a 'positive >>feedback loop'. However, huge scientific uncertainty exists in defining >>the extent and importance of this feedback loop. As water vapor increases >>in the atmosphere, more of it will eventually also condense into clouds, >>which are more able to reflect incoming solar radiation (thus allowing >>less energy to reach the Earth's surface and heat it up). The future >>monitoring of atmospheric processes involving water vapor will be >>critical to fully understand the feedbacks in the climate system leading >>to global climate change. As yet, though the basics of the hydrological >>cycle are fairly well understood, we have very little comprehension of >>the complexity of the feedback loops. Also, while we have good >>atmospheric measurements of other key greenhouse gases such as carbon >>dioxide and methane, we have poor measurements of global water vapor, so >>it is not certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in >>recent decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined with >>balloon data and some in-situ ground measurements indicate generally >>positive trends in global water vapor." >> >>The website: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html >> >>That Steven Dapra sites appears to be promoting coal as an energy source, >>which is another source of CO2 when burned. This makes you wonder if they >>are not bias in their presentation of global warming. Check out the >>discussion of strip mining: >> >>http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/StripMiner.html >> >>Bob > >[edit] > > > >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Robert Casparius Radiation Safety Officer AECOM Department of Environmental Health & Safety x2243 http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ehs/Secondary%20Sites/AE_Radiation.htm From mborisky at arl.army.mil Fri Mar 23 09:40:57 2007 From: mborisky at arl.army.mil (Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:40:57 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: <281217.43791.qm@web50106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <000b01c76d26$e9a2bd90$9dc8a182@Irisbq> <281217.43791.qm@web50106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Doesn't anyone appreciate the energy response virtues and senstivity of the tissue equivalent microrem/hr meter? Mike Borisky Army Research Lab -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sam Iverstine Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 8:35 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Great topic. Great link to energy response curves. One's employer could spend less on an ion chamber than the two days of your time and large errors associated with applying curves and filters, in my opinion. But it might be fun to overcome the challenge. This brings me to my question for radsafe: What is the best hand held ion chamber to purchase for mainly radiology uses? The best I can find are the 450 and 451P's by Victoreen. Sometimes these meters give erratic readings due to temperature or mechanical agitation (dropping). They do have a good response rate and accurate digital readout over all energies of interest. The plastic case is water-resistant and filters fewer low energy photons (than a metallic encased meter). But there must be something better in this millennia? Thanks for any response. Sam Iverstine, MS, CHP Aad van der Kooij wrote: Well, by the time I received this message it was Friday ... The response of a GM tube can be tuned by using filters around (parts of)the tube. For example: http://www.hps.org/hpspublications/articles/allard.html And yes, you are right about questioning what is going on! Dose rates are expressed per unit of time and(TGIF)dose in Sv so: Sv.h-1 -) Enjoy your weekend! Aad van der Kooij RPO TU Delft (NL) -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:20 To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. First a short introduction: My current employer appears to be mandating/authorizing the use of Geiger Mueller (GM) detectors to measure dose rates in Roentgens (the meters read "capital" R, not "r") . As many of you know, a given instrument intended for performing quantitative measurements will respond differently to various energies of a given radiation, and a GM tube's response is quite energy dependent. As the GM's are calibrated with Cs-137 the response to other x-ray/gamma sources (of other energies/strength) can be quite different than what one would measure with an ion chamber - i.e. the energy dependence of the instrument must be known and accounted for in order to make accurate quantitative measurements. A short Discussion: I'm not sure that my employer realizes that by utilizing a GM for measurement of (a wide energy-range of) gamma/x-rays they are creating the potential for overexposure conditions (where in some/many cases one should be utilizing an ion chamber). Exposure vs dose, Bragg-Gray and kerma considerations put aside for now, I was taught to always utilize an Ion Chamber if I REALLY wanted to know the dose-rates (I use a pressurized ion-chamber myself for a wider range of energy response). After all, last I knew, "exposure" was still defined in terms of the amount of ionization charge created in AIR - and I believe that the fundamental SI unit of exposure still corresponds to that amount of x-or gamma radiation who's associated secondary electrons create an ionization charge of on coulomb per kilogram of dry air at STP. Anyone know of a GM that utilizes 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen for a counting gas? So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh Std. Disclaimer... The thoughts, discussion and opinion(s) above are mine and mine only, not that of my employer and, of course, I am in no way asserting/suggesting that my employer is doing anything wrong. This is only a topic for a philosophical Health Physics discussion and I would value your opinion(s) on the matter. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE From Tom_Johnston at nymc.edu Fri Mar 23 11:22:07 2007 From: Tom_Johnston at nymc.edu (Johnston, Thomas) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:22:07 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20070323095950.034a8010@pop.aecom.yu.edu> Message-ID: <70C50B8807B54A429AC206E83A3BA6BC160D3DAE@mail.nymc.edu> There was an interesting segment on national network news about several major colleges prohibiting the use of Wikipedia as a reference for any college work. Just a note to pass along. Buyer, er, Reader Beware. But I am sure most of you know not to trust all online sources already... Tom -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Bob Casparius Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:04 AM To: Steven Dapra; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Steven, This is from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas and accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect. Water vapor concentrations fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not directly affect water vapor concentrations except at very local scales. In climate models an increase in atmospheric temperature caused by the greenhouse effect due to anthropogenic gases will in turn lead to an increase in the water vapor content of the troposphere, with approximately constant relative humidity. The increased water vapor in turn leads to an increase in the greenhouse effect and thus a further increase in temperature; the increase in temperature leads to still further increase in atmospheric water vapor; and the feedback cycle continues until equilibrium is reached. Thus water vapor acts as a positive feedback to the forcing provided by human-released greenhouse gases such as CO2[9] (but has never, so far, acted on Earth as part of a runaway feedback). Changes in water vapor may also have indirect effects via cloud formation. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) IPCC Third Assessment Report chapter lead author Michael Mann considers citing "the role of water vapor as a greenhouse gas" to be "extremely misleading" as water vapor can not be controlled by humans.[10][11][12] The IPCC report has discussed water vapor feedback in more detail.[13] Bob At 09:26 PM 3/22/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: >March 22 > > My thanks to Bob Casparius for posting this very clear NCDC > explanation of the role of water vapor, accompanied by the explanation of > what we *do not* know. > > So there is no confusion or uncertainty on anyone's part, that > link I offered was not to my site, nor do I necessarily accept everything > that was said on the site. (See the end of Bob's posting.) I do not > know if the site was promoting coal or not and can't comment on > that. Bob suggested that the site might be biased in its discussion of > global warming and his suggestion may well be true, I don't know. It > cannot be said often enough that *everyone* has a bias, and we might do > well to keep that in mind. With respect to strip mining, it may not be a > pretty sight, however it has nothing to do with global warming. The > UMTRA project left us with some rather large tailings piles. I know some > of that is from bomb production, however some of it is from reactor fuel > too -- at least I assume it is. I could stand to be corrected on that point. > >Steven Dapra >sjd at swcp.com > > > >At 02:57 PM 3/22/07 -0400, Bob Casparius wrote: >>The National Climate Data Center [NCDC] even says that any increase in >>water vapor in the atmosphere is due to increases in atmospheric >>temperature. Therefore, the increased atmospheric temperature must be due >>to something other than increased water vapor. And if there is increased >>water vapor in the atmosphere it is due to increased atmospheric temp. >> >>The following is from http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html >> >>"Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, which >>is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its concentration >>is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the >>warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of >>industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is >>critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet is >>still fairly poorly measured and understood. >> >>As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated from >>ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is >>warmer, the relative humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is able >>to 'hold' more water when its warmer), leading to more water vapor in the >>atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water vapor >>is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, >>thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then hold >>more water vapor and so on and so on. This is referred to as a 'positive >>feedback loop'. However, huge scientific uncertainty exists in defining >>the extent and importance of this feedback loop. As water vapor increases >>in the atmosphere, more of it will eventually also condense into clouds, >>which are more able to reflect incoming solar radiation (thus allowing >>less energy to reach the Earth's surface and heat it up). The future >>monitoring of atmospheric processes involving water vapor will be >>critical to fully understand the feedbacks in the climate system leading >>to global climate change. As yet, though the basics of the hydrological >>cycle are fairly well understood, we have very little comprehension of >>the complexity of the feedback loops. Also, while we have good >>atmospheric measurements of other key greenhouse gases such as carbon >>dioxide and methane, we have poor measurements of global water vapor, so >>it is not certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in >>recent decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined with >>balloon data and some in-situ ground measurements indicate generally >>positive trends in global water vapor." >> >>The website: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html >> >>That Steven Dapra sites appears to be promoting coal as an energy source, >>which is another source of CO2 when burned. This makes you wonder if they >>are not bias in their presentation of global warming. Check out the >>discussion of strip mining: >> >>http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/StripMiner.html >> >>Bob > >[edit] > > > >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Robert Casparius Radiation Safety Officer AECOM Department of Environmental Health & Safety x2243 http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ehs/Secondary%20Sites/AE_Radiation.htm _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From cary_rdsfe at pacbell.net Fri Mar 23 12:37:21 2007 From: cary_rdsfe at pacbell.net (Cary Renquist) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <54289.47671.qm@web82410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The tissue equivalent urem is useful, but... Caveat Emptor: The tissue equivalent microrem/h meter is still a pulse mode device -- like a GM. Like a GM -- it tends to overestimate the dose from lower energy sources (it is probably much better than a NaI microrem meter, but not better than an ion chamber). Measuring Gd-153 (two ~100 keV photons) with a tissue equivalent microrem will give a reading ~50% higher than an ion chamber (ion chamber and microrem both calibrated to Cs-137). Also, there are safety issues for not using pulse-mode dose rate meters -- I'm not going to grab a GM-based dose rate meter or a pulse-mode urem if I am checking out potentially high dose rate fields. A person with one type of dose rate meter is always sure of their exposure, a person with two is never quite sure. Best regards, Cary -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO) Sent: Friday, 23 March, 2007 06:41 To: Sam Iverstine; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement (UNCLASSIFIED) Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Doesn't anyone appreciate the energy response virtues and senstivity of the tissue equivalent microrem/hr meter? Mike Borisky Army Research Lab -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sam Iverstine Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 8:35 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Great topic. Great link to energy response curves. One's employer could spend less on an ion chamber than the two days of your time and large errors associated with applying curves and filters, in my opinion. But it might be fun to overcome the challenge. This brings me to my question for radsafe: What is the best hand held ion chamber to purchase for mainly radiology uses? The best I can find are the 450 and 451P's by Victoreen. Sometimes these meters give erratic readings due to temperature or mechanical agitation (dropping). They do have a good response rate and accurate digital readout over all energies of interest. The plastic case is water-resistant and filters fewer low energy photons (than a metallic encased meter). But there must be something better in this millennia? Thanks for any response. Sam Iverstine, MS, CHP Aad van der Kooij wrote: Well, by the time I received this message it was Friday ... The response of a GM tube can be tuned by using filters around (parts of)the tube. For example: http://www.hps.org/hpspublications/articles/allard.html And yes, you are right about questioning what is going on! Dose rates are expressed per unit of time and(TGIF)dose in Sv so: Sv.h-1 -) Enjoy your weekend! Aad van der Kooij RPO TU Delft (NL) -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:20 To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. First a short introduction: My current employer appears to be mandating/authorizing the use of Geiger Mueller (GM) detectors to measure dose rates in Roentgens (the meters read "capital" R, not "r") . As many of you know, a given instrument intended for performing quantitative measurements will respond differently to various energies of a given radiation, and a GM tube's response is quite energy dependent. As the GM's are calibrated with Cs-137 the response to other x-ray/gamma sources (of other energies/strength) can be quite different than what one would measure with an ion chamber - i.e. the energy dependence of the instrument must be known and accounted for in order to make accurate quantitative measurements. A short Discussion: I'm not sure that my employer realizes that by utilizing a GM for measurement of (a wide energy-range of) gamma/x-rays they are creating the potential for overexposure conditions (where in some/many cases one should be utilizing an ion chamber). Exposure vs dose, Bragg-Gray and kerma considerations put aside for now, I was taught to always utilize an Ion Chamber if I REALLY wanted to know the dose-rates (I use a pressurized ion-chamber myself for a wider range of energy response). After all, last I knew, "exposure" was still defined in terms of the amount of ionization charge created in AIR - and I believe that the fundamental SI unit of exposure still corresponds to that amount of x-or gamma radiation who's associated secondary electrons create an ionization charge of on coulomb per kilogram of dry air at STP. Anyone know of a GM that utilizes 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen for a counting gas? So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh Std. Disclaimer... The thoughts, discussion and opinion(s) above are mine and mine only, not that of my employer and, of course, I am in no way asserting/suggesting that my employer is doing anything wrong. This is only a topic for a philosophical Health Physics discussion and I would value your opinion(s) on the matter. From caspar at aecom.yu.edu Fri Mar 23 12:40:56 2007 From: caspar at aecom.yu.edu (Bob Casparius) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:40:56 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <70C50B8807B54A429AC206E83A3BA6BC160D3DAE@mail.nymc.edu> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20070323095950.034a8010@pop.aecom.yu.edu> <70C50B8807B54A429AC206E83A3BA6BC160D3DAE@mail.nymc.edu> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20070323124844.033a9e88@pop.aecom.yu.edu> Yes, I was hesitant about using it as a source. However, it does look impressive and you can always have some skepticism regarding the source. Compare this to geocraft.com which Steven Dapra submitted as a reference with no info on the purpose or explanation of the website. However since then I found the following: http://www.nsc.org/EHC/climate/ccucla6.htm http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/296/5568/665 http://usasearch.gov/search?input-form=simple-firstgov&v%3Aproject=firstgov&query=water+vapor+global+warming&affiliate=noaa.gov Bob At 12:22 PM 3/23/2007, Johnston, Thomas wrote: >There was an interesting segment on national network news about several >major colleges prohibiting the use of Wikipedia as a reference for any >college work. Just a note to pass along. Buyer, er, Reader Beware. >But I am sure most of you know not to trust all online sources >already... > >Tom > >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >Behalf Of Bob Casparius >Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:04 AM >To: Steven Dapra; radsafe at radlab.nl >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism > >Steven, > >This is from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas > >Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas and accounts for the > >largest percentage of the greenhouse effect. Water vapor concentrations >fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not directly affect water >vapor concentrations except at very local scales. > >In climate models an >increase in atmospheric temperature caused by the greenhouse effect due >to >anthropogenic gases will in turn lead to an increase in the water vapor >content of the troposphere, with approximately constant >relative humidity. > >The increased water vapor in turn leads to an increase in the greenhouse > >effect and thus a further increase in temperature; the increase in >temperature leads to still further increase in atmospheric water vapor; >and >the feedback cycle continues until equilibrium is reached. Thus water >vapor >acts as a positive feedback to the forcing provided by human-released >greenhouse gases such as CO2[9] >(but >has never, so far, acted on Earth as part of a runaway feedback). >Changes >in water vapor may also have indirect effects via cloud formation. > >hange>Intergovernmental >Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) >IPCC >Third >Assessment Report chapter lead author >Michael > >Mann considers citing "the role of water vapor as a greenhouse gas" to >be >"extremely misleading" as water vapor can not be controlled by >humans.[10]rg/wiki/#_note-9>[11][12] >The IPCC report has discussed water vapor feedback in more >detail.[13] > >Bob > > >At 09:26 PM 3/22/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: > >March 22 > > > > My thanks to Bob Casparius for posting this very clear NCDC > > explanation of the role of water vapor, accompanied by the explanation >of > > what we *do not* know. > > > > So there is no confusion or uncertainty on anyone's part, that > > > link I offered was not to my site, nor do I necessarily accept >everything > > that was said on the site. (See the end of Bob's posting.) I do >not > > know if the site was promoting coal or not and can't comment on > > that. Bob suggested that the site might be biased in its discussion >of > > global warming and his suggestion may well be true, I don't know. It > > cannot be said often enough that *everyone* has a bias, and we might >do > > well to keep that in mind. With respect to strip mining, it may not >be a > > pretty sight, however it has nothing to do with global warming. The > > UMTRA project left us with some rather large tailings piles. I know >some > > of that is from bomb production, however some of it is from reactor >fuel > > too -- at least I assume it is. I could stand to be corrected on that >point. > > > >Steven Dapra > >sjd at swcp.com > > > > > > > >At 02:57 PM 3/22/07 -0400, Bob Casparius wrote: > >>The National Climate Data Center [NCDC] even says that any increase in > > >>water vapor in the atmosphere is due to increases in atmospheric > >>temperature. Therefore, the increased atmospheric temperature must be >due > >>to something other than increased water vapor. And if there is >increased > >>water vapor in the atmosphere it is due to increased atmospheric temp. > >> > >>The following is from http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html > >> > >>"Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, >which > >>is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its >concentration > >>is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the > >>warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of > >>industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is > >>critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet >is > >>still fairly poorly measured and understood. > >> > >>As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated >from > >>ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is > >>warmer, the relative humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is >able > >>to 'hold' more water when its warmer), leading to more water vapor in >the > >>atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water >vapor > >>is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, > > >>thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then >hold > >>more water vapor and so on and so on. This is referred to as a >'positive > >>feedback loop'. However, huge scientific uncertainty exists in >defining > >>the extent and importance of this feedback loop. As water vapor >increases > >>in the atmosphere, more of it will eventually also condense into >clouds, > >>which are more able to reflect incoming solar radiation (thus allowing > > >>less energy to reach the Earth's surface and heat it up). The future > >>monitoring of atmospheric processes involving water vapor will be > >>critical to fully understand the feedbacks in the climate system >leading > >>to global climate change. As yet, though the basics of the >hydrological > >>cycle are fairly well understood, we have very little comprehension of > > >>the complexity of the feedback loops. Also, while we have good > >>atmospheric measurements of other key greenhouse gases such as carbon > >>dioxide and methane, we have poor measurements of global water vapor, >so > >>it is not certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in > > >>recent decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined >with > >>balloon data and some in-situ ground measurements indicate generally > >>positive trends in global water vapor." > >> > >>The website: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html > >> > >>That Steven Dapra sites appears to be promoting coal as an energy >source, > >>which is another source of CO2 when burned. This makes you wonder if >they > >>are not bias in their presentation of global warming. Check out the > >>discussion of strip mining: > >> > >>http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/StripMiner.html > >> > >>Bob > > > >[edit] > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > > >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > >Robert Casparius >Radiation Safety Officer >AECOM >Department of Environmental Health & Safety >x2243 > >http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ehs/Secondary%20Sites/AE_Radiation.htm >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Robert Casparius Radiation Safety Officer AECOM Department of Environmental Health & Safety x2243 http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ehs/Secondary%20Sites/AE_Radiation.htm From Kjell.Johansen at nmcco.com Fri Mar 23 13:58:20 2007 From: Kjell.Johansen at nmcco.com (Johansen, Kjell) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:58:20 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) In-Reply-To: <20070322235521.1952.qmail@web83512.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657B0@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> That warming period is not exactly applicable to today's situation. The CO2 concentrations then were at about 50-70% of what they are now. So, until we can understand the reason for the warming in terms of the operable parameters when it occurred, we will not know how to properly devise a mechanism to explain it. If we postulate that the brief warming period were due to increased solar output, then the warming effect would be greater this time around due to the higher atmospheric CO2 concentration. Another consideration is the effect of "freshening" the ocean with glacial water. Changing the currents due to an influx of fresh water could lead to erosion of oceanic sediments off the East Coast. There are tons of methane trapped in the sediments there. Also, warming the Arctic can release the vast amount of methane stored in the 'frozen tundra." With CH4 having 16x the greenhouse forcing of CO2, this global warming feedback looks really bad. As they used to say on Star Trek, the weather will be "going where no man has gone before." Kjell Johansen Point Beach All opinions express are absolutely my own and my not be those of my employer. ________________________________ From: howard long [mailto:hflong at pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 6:55 PM To: Flood, John; Sandy Perle; Johansen, Kjell; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) When there WAS "global warming" a thousand years ago (when Greenland was green), was England "like Greenland' (frozen?) or like Robin Hood stories of life in Sherwood Forest? Theory vs History. Howard Long "Flood, John" wrote: Interesting that this phenomenon was just "discovered" - the influence of fresh water from melting glaciers on the three-dimensional large scale ocean currents was a topic covered in a climatology class I took in college. And I won't be admitting how many decades ago that was. The example used in class was to show how large scale melting of the northern hemisphere ice cap would probably move the Gulf Stream enough to turn England into something more like Iceland. John R. (Bob) Flood Acting Manager Radiological Health Nevada Test Site (702) 295-2514 -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:26 AM To: 'Johansen, Kjell'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) Kyell, Interesting article today. Southern Ocean current faces slowdown threat By Michael Byrnes Thu Mar 22, 2:03 AM ET HOBART (Reuters) - The impact of global warming on the vast Southern Ocean around Antarctica is starting to pose a threat to ocean currents that distribute heat around the world, Australian scientists say, citing new deep-water data. Melting ice-sheets and glaciers in Antarctica are releasing fresh water, interfering with the formation of dense "bottom water," which sinks 4-5 kilometers to the ocean floor and helps drive the world's ocean circulation system. A slowdown in the system known as "overturning circulation" would affect the way the ocean, which absorbs 85 percent of atmospheric heat, carries heat around the globe. "If the water gets fresh enough ... then it won't matter how much ice we form, we won't be able to make this water cold and salty enough to sink," said Steve Rintoul, a senior scientist at the Australian government-funded CSIRO Marine Science. "Changes would be felt ... around the globe," said Rintoul, who recently led a multinational team of scientists on an expedition to sample deep-basin water south of Western Australia to the Antarctic. Water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor is formed in polar regions by surface water freezing, which concentrates salt in very cold water beneath the ice. The dense water then sinks. Only a few places around Antarctica and in the northern Atlantic create water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor, making Antarctic "bottom water" crucial to global ocean currents. But the freshening of Antarctic deep water was a sign that the "overturning circulation" system in the world's oceans might be slowing down, Rintoul said, and similar trends are occurring in the North Atlantic. For the so-called Atlantic Conveyor, the surface warm water current meets the Greenland ice sheet then cools and sinks, heading south again and driving the conveyor belt process. But researchers fear increased melting of the Greenland ice sheet risks disrupting the conveyor. If it stops, temperatures in northern Europe would plunge. Rintoul, who has led teams tracking water density around the Antarctic through decades of readings, said his findings add to concerns about a "strangling" of the Southern Ocean by greenhouse gases and global warming. Australian scientists warned last month that waters surrounding Antarctica were also becoming more acidic as they absorbed more carbon dioxide produced by nations burning fossil fuels. Acidification of the ocean is affecting the ability of plankton -- microscopic marine plants, animals and bacteria -- to absorb carbon dioxide, reducing the ocean's ability to sink greenhouse gases to the bottom of the sea. Rintoul said that global warming was also changing wind patterns in the Antarctic region, drawing them south away from the Australian mainland and causing declining rainfall in western and possibly eastern coastal areas. This was contributing to drought in Australia, one of the world's top agricultural producers, he said. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Johansen, Kjell Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:51 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Therefore, I conclude that the extremist position is the one taken by the person who sits around wanting more conclusive proof before taking any action to lower the consequences of global climate change. Kjell Johansen Whitefish Bay, WI _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From rhelbig at california.com Sat Mar 24 04:28:34 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:28:34 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] HB1046 Bill Status Message-ID: <009301c76df7$0e637fe0$16435142@roger1> The preamble of this bill is loaded with false information .. Generated on 3/23/2007 10:01:06 PM Measure Title: RELATING TO HEALTH. Report Title: Depleted Uranium; Health Effects; Environmental Impact ($) Description: Provides access for all returning veterans to a health screening test for exposure to depleted uranium. Establishes a task force to study the health effects of depleted uranium exposure. Requires an environmental impact study on storage and disposal of depleted uranium munitions on Oahu. Package: None Companion: SB1708 Introducer(s): CARROLL, TAKUMI, TSUJI, YAMASHITA, Brower, Hanohano, Lee, Sonson, Tokioka Current Referral: PSM/HLT, EEP, FIN Date Status Text 1/22/2007 H Pending introduction. 1/24/2007 H Introduced and Pass First Reading. 1/24/2007 H Referred to PSM/HLT, EEP, FIN, referral sheet 4 $ = Appropriation measure ConAm = Constitutional Amendment http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/docs/getstatus2.asp?billno=HB1046 From gary at pageturners.com Sat Mar 24 21:16:52 2007 From: gary at pageturners.com (Gary Damschen) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 22:16:52 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Message-ID: <003b01c76e83$a7c4eb60$f74ec220$@com> I haven't seen any response to my earlier request for comments on the theory presented at http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm by Dr. Roy Spencer. Since it deals directly with the current topic of this thread, I'm reposting the request. On his site, Dr. Spencer argues that the hard data (actual satellite measurements) do not support the generally accepted hydrologic cycle with respect to the behavior of water vapor in response to warming. He makes the case that precipitation (not evaporation) controls atmospheric water vapor concentrations and temperatures, not the other way around. He also argues that the dismissal of the poorly understood role of precipitation processes in regulating global temperatures may be leading us to false conclusions about the effects of anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions on the climate and that the climate models being used to forecast global warming have the effects of water vapor backwards - that observation of actual water vapor behavior indicates that it provides *negative* feedback to increased temperatures, not the positive feedback used in the models. Now, I know this flies in the face of GW orthodoxy, but it seems to me he makes a plausible case. And if his case is plausible, then it seems like we need to focus on understanding the effects of precipitation cycles on global climate a LOT better before we spend any more time researching and/or proposing shooting millions of tiny mirrors into the atmosphere to reflect sunlight back into space, or creating giant CO2 sequestration systems, or any of the other wild ideas that seem to be floating about these days. Please understand that I am not saying that conservation is a bad thing. I think that it is prudent to make the best use we can of the resources we have to make life better for as many people as possible. However, banning incandescent light bulbs and mandating fluorescents with resultant mercury disposal problems, or mandating higher CAFE standards with resultant traffic fatality increases because of lighter vehicle construction, or refusing loans to third world countries if they won't use "green" power sources that won't meet their needs are the wrong answers to the problems. I've tried to keep an open mind as I have researched the evidence for and against anthropogenic global warming (AGW). From what I can see, there are enough things we do not know about how the Earth's climate is regulated, enough instances where observed climate behavior does not match model predictions, that if we are really honest about what we do and don't know, we have to admit we are nowhere near being able to conclusively state that the warming observed over the last 20 years or so is man-caused. At best, this appears to still be a belief issue, like a heliocentric solar system, or bacterial causes for ulcers, or plate tectonics were until experimentation and observation provided sufficient evidence to back the theories that they became accepted as fact. What bothers me is that somehow current AGW theory has become the "unquestionable truth" - all dissent is disallowed and all dissenters must be publicly humiliated and punished. Don't buy into the theory? Your professional credentials should be revoked, your funding sources questioned, and your personal integrity impugned. What happened to continuously testing hypotheses, constantly trying to falsify theories as Einstein did with his own theories? Now, it seems that if the data don't fit the model, toss the nonconforming data as "outliers" and ridicule anyone with the audacity to point out the discrepancies. Sorry for the rant, I may have gotten cranky as I've gotten older. I'm just saddened that Science, which I dearly love, seems to be losing its reasonableness on this issue. -Gary [snip] ... They clearly understand that water vapor needs warmer atmospheric temperatures in order to increase in concentration. So it is not the water vapor that is causing the rise in temperatures. It is the increase in temperature that may be causing the increase in water vapor. Which brings us back to CO2 causing the increase in atmospheric temps. causing an increase in the amount of water vapor, which as we agree is a greenhouse gas. So maybe it is contributing to the problem. But only because it is a by-product of the original problem man-made CO2 being dumped into the atmosphere. [/snip] From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Sat Mar 24 23:41:30 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 21:41:30 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism References: <003b01c76e83$a7c4eb60$f74ec220$@com> Message-ID: Gary Damschen wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Gary Damschen Sent: Sat 3/24/2007 7:16 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism I haven't seen any response to my earlier request for comments on the theory presented at http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm by Dr. Roy Spencer. Since it deals directly with the current topic of this thread, I'm reposting the request. ================= I am putting together a response. Unlike most people writing on the sceptic/denialist side, Roy Spencer is a serious scientist and deserves a serious response. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. From wesvanpelt at verizon.net Sun Mar 25 08:46:18 2007 From: wesvanpelt at verizon.net (WesVanPelt) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 09:46:18 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement In-Reply-To: <281217.43791.qm@web50106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <000b01c76d26$e9a2bd90$9dc8a182@Irisbq> <281217.43791.qm@web50106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008101c76ee3$f7df0c10$2f01a8c0@D7XYRT61> Radsafers, I have used the Victoreen 450 for years. It has good and bad features, but overall is a good dose rate instrument. One "feature" that may mislead when measuring low dose rates is this. The digital display will not show a negative dose rate. Why is this an issue? If the instrument drifts out of calibration and reads less than zero, it shows a positive number. In other words -0.015 mrem/h will display as +0.015 mrem/h. I have slowly moved a source closer to the instrument and watched the display drop to zero and then go up again. I mentioned this problem to Victoreen many times, but they never had any interest in correcting it. Does anyone know if the current ion chamber ratemeter models show this "feature"? PS. I know that Victoreen is out of business, but I forget who now owns their ion chamber ratemeter product line. Wes New email: wesvanpelt at verizon.net Wesley R. Van Pelt, PhD, CIH, CHP Radiation Safety & Environmental Radioactivity Wesley R. Van Pelt Associates, Inc. ...... This brings me to my question for radsafe: What is the best hand held ion chamber to purchase for mainly radiology uses? The best I can find are the 450 and 451P's by Victoreen. Sometimes these meters give erratic readings due to temperature or mechanical agitation (dropping). They do have a good response rate and accurate digital readout over all energies of interest. The plastic case is water-resistant and filters fewer low energy photons (than a metallic encased meter). But there must be something better in this millennia? ...... From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Sun Mar 25 10:04:00 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:04:00 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radon regulations Message-ID: <73AF777F83C84E9DA45CF8F8A03880AF@JohnPC> Radsafers Does anyone have a list of radon regulations in the European Union countries and other non-North American countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Japan, etc? I am comparing regulations in British Colombia to those used elsewhere. Thanks in advance John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca From theo at richel.org Sun Mar 25 15:31:17 2007 From: theo at richel.org (Theo Richel) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 22:31:17 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Feinendegen piece searched In-Reply-To: <73AF777F83C84E9DA45CF8F8A03880AF@JohnPC> Message-ID: <011101c76f1c$8acf7e50$0c00a8c0@stationsstr43.richel.org> Would anyone have the following piece available as a pdf? A copy would be much appreciated. Exp Hematol. 2007 Apr;35(4 Suppl 1):37-46. Whole-body responses to low-level radiation exposure: New concepts in mammalian radiobiology. Feinendegen LE, Pollycove M, Neumann RD. Thanks, Theo Richel Stationsstraat 43 4421 AK Kapelle theo at richel.org Tel. +31 (0)113330030 Fax +31 (0)113330031 http://www.richel.org/resume http://www.groenerekenkamer.nl http://www.huiselijkgeweld.info e/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 25 15:42:01 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:42:01 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Feinendegen piece searched In-Reply-To: <011101c76f1c$8acf7e50$0c00a8c0@stationsstr43.richel.org> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB72B@gdses.corp.gds.com> Theo, This is the abstract as found on the PubMed.gov site... stating that the article should be published in April 2007. Perhaps one of the authors will send you a copy (some do read Radsafe). Whole-body responses to low-level radiation exposure: New concepts in mammalian radiobiology. Feinendegen LE, Pollycove M, Neumann RD. Department of Nuclear Medicine, Heinrich-Heine University, Dusseldorf, Germany; and Medical Department, Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY, USA. This review of low dose-induced whole-body effects, especially cancer, shows: 1) Biological systems appear in hierarchy levels of organization, from atoms to molecules, to cells, to tissues and organs, to the whole system; 2) System responses to low-level exposures depend on: quality and number of energy depositions in tissue micromasses (microdoses) being potential triggers to damage and protection; time interval between two microdose events per exposed micromass, that determines cellular responses to the preceding microdose; and responses to microdose events in the system being the target, with the balance between damage and benefit determining the net effect; 3) System responses to acute or chronic low-level exposures evolve from damage to the basic molecular level, mainly to DNA of stem cells, and from adaptive responses that may occur in the whole body. Damage may propagate to successive higher levels of organization, meeting protective barriers which may become upregulated by adaptive responses. The balance between damage and protection at each level per individual depends on tissue dose. At single tissue doses below congruent with 0.1 Gy net benefit tends to outweigh detriment. Thus, progression of damage to clinical disease is not linear; 4) Quality and extent of system responses are under genetic control. Thus, system net responses expectedly vary among individuals; 5) The balance between health risk and benefit of low-level exposure for a given individual may become predictable by gene-expression profiles in control and irradiated cells of this individual; and 6) Clinical trials applying individualized low-level irradiation are justified. PMID: 17379086 [PubMed - in process] ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Theo Richel Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 1:31 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Feinendegen piece searched Would anyone have the following piece available as a pdf? A copy would be much appreciated. Exp Hematol. 2007 Apr;35(4 Suppl 1):37-46. Whole-body responses to low-level radiation exposure: New concepts in mammalian radiobiology. Feinendegen LE, Pollycove M, Neumann RD. Thanks, Theo Richel Stationsstraat 43 4421 AK Kapelle theo at richel.org Tel. +31 (0)113330030 Fax +31 (0)113330031 http://www.richel.org/resume http://www.groenerekenkamer.nl http://www.huiselijkgeweld.info e/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 25 16:44:45 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 14:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Meat and two neutrons -- the key to a longer life... Message-ID: <211286.34640.qm@web81607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Public release date: 25-Mar-2007 Contact: SCI Press Office press at soci.org 44-079-313-15077 Society of Chemical Industry Meat and two neutrons -- the key to a longer life Long-life isotopes of a different variety Indulging in an isotope-enhanced steak or chicken fillet every now and again could add as much as 10 years to your life. Scientists have shown for the first time that food enriched with natural isotopes builds bodily components that are more resistant to the processes of ageing. The concept has been demonstrated in worms and researchers hope that the same concept can help extend human life and reduce the risk of cancer and other diseases of ageing, reports Marina Murphy in Chemistry & Industry, the magazine of the SCI. A team led by Mikhail Shchepinov, formerly of Oxford University, fed nematode worms nutrients reinforced with natural isotopes (naturally occurring atomic variations of elements). In initial experiments, worms' life spans were extended by 10%, which, with humans expected to routinely coast close to the centenary, could add a further 10 years to human life. Food enhanced with isotopes is thought to produce bodily constituents and DNA more resistant to detrimental processes, like free radical attack. The isotopes replace atoms in susceptible bonds making these bonds stronger. 'Because these bonds are so much more stable, it should be possible to slow down the process of oxidation and ageing,' Shchepinov says. The isotopes could be used in animal feed so that humans could get the "age-defying" isotopes indirectly in steaks or chicken fillets, for example, rather than eating chemically enhanced products themselves. Shchepinov says an occasional top-up would be sufficient to have a beneficial effect. Ageing experts are impressed with the isotopic approach. Aubrey de Grey, the Cambridge-based gerontologist, says it could be very relevant to the rates of several chemical and enzymatic processes relevant to ageing 'It is a highly novel idea,' he says. 'But it remains to be seen whether it can be the source of practicable therapies, but it is a prospect that certainly cannot be ruled out.' Charles Cantor, a professor of biomechanical engineering at Boston University, said: 'Preliminary data indicates that this approach can potentially increase lifespan without adverse side effects. If this is borne out by further experiments the implications are profound.' Isotopes could also be used in pet food or as a means to protect workers or soldiers from radiation. Deuterium, a natural isotope of hydrogen (with 2 protons rather than one) could be used routinely. Previous successes in extending lifespan have involved withdrawing food to the point of near starvation, a process called caloric restriction. ### Please acknowledge Chemistry & Industry as the source of these items. If publishing online, please include a hyperlink to http://www.chemind.org Please note Chemistry & Industry uses '&' in its title, please do not correct to 'and'. Chemistry & Industry magazine from SCI delivers news and comment from the interface between science and business. As well as covering industry and science, it focuses on developments that will be of significant commercial interest in five- to ten-years time. Published twice-monthly and free to SCI Members, it also carries authoritative features and reviews. Opinion-formers worldwide respect Chemistry & Industry for its independent insight. SCI is a unique international forum where science meets business on independent, impartial ground. Anyone can join, and the Society offers a chance to share information between sectors as diverse as food and agriculture, pharmaceuticals, biotechnology, environmental science and safety. As well as publishing new research and running events, SCI has a growing database of member specialists who can give background information on a wide range of scientific issues. Originally established in 1881, SCI is a registered charity with members in over 70 countries. --------------------------------- Roy Herren --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. From Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk Mon Mar 26 01:42:08 2007 From: Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk (Dawson, Fred Mr) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 07:42:08 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Bacterium can survive doses of ionising radiation thousands of times stronger than would kill a human Message-ID: New Scientist reports:- Nicknamed Conan the Bacterium, Deinococcus radiodurans can survive doses of ionising radiation thousands of times stronger than would kill a human. So how does it do it? http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11447-tough-bug-reveals-key-to-rad iation-resistance.html Fred Dawson Fwp_dawson at hotmail.com From nicolas.brisson at irsn.fr Mon Mar 26 02:47:28 2007 From: nicolas.brisson at irsn.fr (BRISSON Nicolas) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:47:28 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radon regulations Message-ID: <98387DEB21286C479D2E9D157120E3FA0B032F@vmess101.proton.intra.irsn.fr> I can provide anyone interested with the French regulation regarding radon, but it is only available in French. This regulation only concerns buildings that receive people from the public (hospitals, schools, spas,...) and only in some parts of France. There has been a wide radon survey in buildings all over France during the 1990s and only the regions where radon concentrations over 1000 Bq/m3 were measured are truly concerned with the regulation. I can make a summary of our regulation in English for those who need it, just send me a private mail. Regards, Nicolas Brisson IRSN/DEI/SIAR 31, rue de l'Ecluse 78116 LE VESINET tel : 01-30-15-42-75 -----Message d'origine----- De?: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] De la part de John R Johnson Envoy??: dimanche 25 mars 2007 17:04 ??: radsafe at radlab.nl Objet?: [ RadSafe ] Radon regulations Radsafers Does anyone have a list of radon regulations in the European Union countries and other non-North American countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Japan, etc? I am comparing regulations in British Colombia to those used elsewhere. Thanks in advance John From jc.mora at ciemat.es Mon Mar 26 04:30:03 2007 From: jc.mora at ciemat.es (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mora_Ca=F1adas_Juan_Carlos?=) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 11:30:03 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radon regulations In-Reply-To: <73AF777F83C84E9DA45CF8F8A03880AF@JohnPC> Message-ID: <323CC54378D32E4FA54281642EF8A2EE01253C77@STR.ciemat.es> Good morning. You may find something on european recommendations related with radon at: http://ec.europa.eu/energy/nuclear/radioprotection/publication/doc/112_en.pdf For construction materials, and http://ec.europa.eu/energy/nuclear/radioprotection/doc/legislation/90143_en.pdf For indoor radon. Usually these recommendations are literally transposed to national laws. __________________________________________________________________ Juan Carlos Mora Ca?adas Unidad de Protecci?n Radiol?gica del P?blico y del Medio Ambiente CIEMAT - Edificio 3, Planta 0, Despacho 18. Avda. Complutense, 22 28040 Madrid Tlf. 91.346.66.83 Fax. 91.346.61.21 __________________________________________________________________ -----Mensaje original----- De: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] En nombre de John R Johnson Enviado el: domingo, 25 de marzo de 2007 17:04 Para: radsafe at radlab.nl Asunto: [ RadSafe ] Radon regulations Radsafers Does anyone have a list of radon regulations in the European Union countries and other non-North American countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Japan, etc? I am comparing regulations in British Colombia to those used elsewhere. Thanks in advance John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From WesVanPelt at Verizon.net Mon Mar 26 08:11:42 2007 From: WesVanPelt at Verizon.net (Wes) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:11:42 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] EMF and brain tumors in animals In-Reply-To: <011101c76f1c$8acf7e50$0c00a8c0@stationsstr43.richel.org> References: <73AF777F83C84E9DA45CF8F8A03880AF@JohnPC> <011101c76f1c$8acf7e50$0c00a8c0@stationsstr43.richel.org> Message-ID: <00c701c76fa8$4e5fab70$2e01a8c0@DDHMVM11> Radsafers, Here is an article that claims that 95 per cent of animals exposed to electromagnetic radiation within the safe limits as per international standards may develop brain tumours. http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=1&theme=&usrsess=1&id=150944 At first I thought it was some really fringe stuff, but the author, Prof Jitendra Behari, seems very capable. A quick PubMed search (see below) shows some impressive research articles. Is anyone aware of this research? Best regards, Wes Wesley R. Van Pelt, PhD, CIH, CHP Wesley R. Van Pelt Associates, Inc. Some papers published by J Behari: 1: Behari J, Zeng G, Otruba W, Thompson MD, Muller P, Micsenyi A, Sekhon SS, Leoni L, Monga SP. Related Articles, Links Abstract R-Etodolac decreases beta-catenin levels along with survival and proliferation of hepatoma cells. J Hepatol. 2006 Dec 21; [Epub ahead of print] PMID: 17275129 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher] 2: Behari J, Paulraj R. Related Articles, Links Abstract Biomarkers of induced electromagnetic field and cancer. Indian J Exp Biol. 2007 Jan;45(1):77-85. Review. PMID: 17249331 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 3: Tan X, Behari J, Cieply B, Michalopoulos GK, Monga SP. Related Articles, Links Abstract Conditional deletion of beta-catenin reveals its role in liver growth and regeneration. Gastroenterology. 2006 Nov;131(5):1561-72. PMID: 17101329 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 4: Paulraj R, Behari J. Related Articles, Links Abstract Protein kinase C activity in developing rat brain cells exposed to 2.45 GHz radiation. Electromagn Biol Med. 2006;25(1):61-70. PMID: 16595335 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 5: Paulraj R, Behari J. Related Articles, Links Abstract Single strand DNA breaks in rat brain cells exposed to microwave radiation. Mutat Res. 2006 Apr 11;596(1-2):76-80. Epub 2006 Feb 2. PMID: 16458332 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 6: Behari J, Schoen RE, Blodgett TM, Federle MP. Related Articles, Links No abstract Functional imaging of a colon polyp. Gastrointest Endosc. 2005 May;61(6):733. No abstract available. PMID: 15855982 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 7: Jayanand, Behari J, Lochan R. Related Articles, Links Abstract Effects of low level pulsed radio frequency fields on induced osteoporosis in rat bone. Indian J Exp Biol. 2003 Jun;41(6):581-6. PMID: 15266903 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 8: Paulraj R, Behari J. Related Articles, Links Abstract Radio frequency radiation effects on protein kinase C activity in rats' brain. Mutat Res. 2004 Jan 12;545(1-2):127-30. PMID: 14698422 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 9: Behari J, Stagon L, Calderwood SB. Related Articles, Links Free in PMC pepA, a gene mediating pH regulation of virulence genes in Vibrio cholerae. J Bacteriol. 2001 Jan;183(1):178-88. PMID: 11114915 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 10: Behari J. Related Articles, Links Abstract Issues in electromagnetic field-biointeractions. Indian J Biochem Biophys. 1999 Oct;36(5):352-60. Review. PMID: 10844988 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 11: Paulraj R, Behari J, Rao AR. Related Articles, Links Abstract Effect of amplitude modulated RF radiation on calcium ion efflux and ODC activity in chronically exposed rat brain. Indian J Biochem Biophys. 1999 Oct;36(5):337-40. PMID: 10844985 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] From gary at pageturners.com Mon Mar 26 10:04:54 2007 From: gary at pageturners.com (Gary Damschen) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 11:04:54 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia Message-ID: <00c801c76fb8$1cc11530$56433f90$@com> This story confuses me. The ice sheets are melting, assumedly because the temps are increasing. I thought that increased temps were supposed to *reduce* CO2 levels in the ocean, causing an increase in atmospheric CO2 that further warmed the ocean and released more CO2, creating a positive feedback loop. Yet this article seems to indicate that the increasing temperature is resulting in *increased* CO2 levels. What am I missing here? -Gary [snip] Melting ice-sheets and glaciers in Antarctica are releasing fresh water, interfering with the formation of dense "bottom water," which sinks 4-5 kilometers to the ocean floor and helps drive the world's ocean circulation system. A slowdown in the system known as "overturning circulation" would affect the way the ocean, which absorbs 85 percent of atmospheric heat, carries heat around the globe... Australian scientists warned last month that waters surrounding Antarctica were also becoming more acidic as they absorbed more carbon dioxide produced by nations burning fossil fuels. [/snip] From Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk Tue Mar 27 04:35:02 2007 From: Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk (Dawson, Fred Mr) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:35:02 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Government Policy on Low Level Radioactive Policy Message-ID: Government Policy on Low Level Radioactive policy The policy statement covers all aspects of the generation, management and regulation of solid LLW and applies to the following organisations: those responsible for the production and management of wastes (waste producers and managers); the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority (NDA); the regulatory bodies; the Food Standards Agency (FSA); waste disposal facility operators; and regional planning bodies; and planning authorities. http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/radioactivity/waste/pdf/llw-policyst atement070326.pdf Fred Dawson Fwp-dawson at hotmail.com From rhelbig at california.com Mon Mar 26 05:37:29 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 02:37:29 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Dr Mohammed Kobeissi's final DU Report Message-ID: <000201c77028$2939b900$57435142@roger1> From: "Mohammed Kobeissi" To: Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:31 AM Subject: DU I received this in a cordial communication from Dr Kobeissi today and decided to share it with the RADSAFE list. One of my concerns is that Dr Kobeissi may have received guidance from Doug Rokke and that certainly may have tainted the analysis. Roger Helbig "To make sure that I do collect the right samples I called a former US Army expert on missiles equipped with DU, describing to him the appearance of the craters soils and asking him for advice on which soil samples are appropriate to be taken as a sample for the investigation" I have asked Dr Kobeissi if this Army expert is Doug Rokke. Since Rokke wrote about the use of DU in Lebanon, I strongly suspect that Rokke is this "former US Army expert on missiles equipped with DU". From blainehoward at yahoo.com Tue Mar 27 21:21:18 2007 From: blainehoward at yahoo.com (Blaine Howard) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Dr Mohammed Kobeissi's final DU Report In-Reply-To: <000201c77028$2939b900$57435142@roger1> Message-ID: <20070328022118.84112.qmail@web50605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Roger, I have gone over the report by Dr. Mohammed Kobeissi and checked his calculations. I have experience in gamma spectroscopy and can confirm his results. I believe this to be reliable laboratory work. I also noted that the radium-226 content of the samples appear to be correct for normal soils. The uranium concentrations also appear reasonable for normal soils. It should be pointed out that there is a measurable amount of uranium in natural soil and that this does not constitute a health problem. The standard man from the Radiological Health Handbook contains 0.7 mg of uranium (700 times what Ms. Moret calls "lethal"). Uranium is a fact of life and the quantities Dr. Durakovic and Ms. Moret call dangerous are just normal healthy conditions. Sincerely, Blaine N. Howard, Health Physicist --- Roger Helbig wrote: > From: "Mohammed Kobeissi" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:31 AM > Subject: DU > > I received this in a cordial communication from Dr > Kobeissi today and decided to share it with the > RADSAFE list. One of my concerns is that Dr > Kobeissi may have received guidance from Doug Rokke > and that certainly may have tainted the analysis. > > Roger Helbig > > "To make sure that I do collect the right samples I > called a former US Army expert on missiles equipped > with DU, describing to him the appearance of the > craters soils and asking him for advice on which > soil samples are appropriate to be taken as a sample > for the investigation" > > I have asked Dr Kobeissi if this Army expert is Doug > Rokke. Since Rokke wrote about the use of DU in > Lebanon, I strongly suspect that Rokke is this > "former US Army expert on missiles equipped with > DU". > > From mso at forsmark.vattenfall.se Wed Mar 28 02:20:36 2007 From: mso at forsmark.vattenfall.se (Olsson Mattias :MSO) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:20:36 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The use of K-40 Message-ID: <6DB2631F05FDEF4D9F6F633E2FC8C7CF0A3000DD@PMSX1M.fka.forsmark.vattenfall.se> There was some talk about potassium on the list recently and I know that K-40 is sometimes used to verify the stability of on-line gamma monitors for for example stack emissions from power plants. It is usually argued that it gives a single, nice peak at such an energy (1,46 MeV) that it is not disturbed by background; neither does it cause much background since the source can be kept very small. (This concerns a shielded detector, of course.) I don't feel any need to question the past experiences of this nuclide as a verification sample but what I do wonder is: 1) How is K-40 manufactured (if it is...). Separation from K-39? Sounds expensive. 2) If K-40 is manufactured as a reasonably enriched product, who sells it? 3) Is this sort of use of K-40 a common practice? Have a good day, folks! -- PhD Mattias Olsson, FTKS Forsmarks Kraftgrupp AB SE-742 03 ?sthammar Sweden t. +46(0)173-81952 m. +46(0)705-801952 e. mso at forsmark.vattenfall.se From rhelbig at california.com Wed Mar 28 03:27:41 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 00:27:41 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Wikipedia article on "alpha decay" Message-ID: <018901c77113$e3bed440$f8425142@roger1> Radsafe members, here is a disturbing new effort by very active anti-DU crusaders on the net, rewrite the Wikipedia that many netziens use to learn about many things .. here are Bob Nichols, self-described journalist (he even went so far as to call himself a war correspondent even though he never left San Francisco area to report on the war!) comments on the accuracy of the Wikipedia information on Alpha decay and his suggestion that anti-DU activists rewrite it to better "inform" the public. Nichols, by the way is considered a "science guru" of this list and his sole experience is being the mouthpiece for Rokke and Moret This conversation is publicly available in AmericanDUST (DU Study Team) in the health section of Yahoo Groups - it can be accessed by Google among other things .. no dissenting information, that is information by anyone with any modicum of actual scientific knowledge, is permitted on this tightly monitored moderated list. Bob Nichols replies What an Excellent question, Romi! Let's see what we can put together. Certainly anything written by Leuren Moret, Doug Rokke, Dennis Kyne or Karen Parker. Also Upsilquitch, Asaf Durakovich, Tedd Weymann, Chris Busby, Rosalie Bertell, Marion Fulk, and Ernest Sternglass and myself, Bob Nichols. Who do you suggest? I would include the files on: AmericanDust, mindfully.org llrc.org UMRC.net I'll add more as I think of them. Any suggestions? Romi Elnagar of Baton Rouge, Louisiana asks Bob, What sources ARE good? I have been assuming that anything in print must not be good, since it would have to go through too many hoops to get published. So, what is left is information on the Net. Are there any sources of information that we CAN trust, and if so, where are they? Subject: Re: [AmericanDUST] Wikipedia article on "alpha decay" Romi, All, Yes, Wikipeda does their dead level best to slant their nuclear weapons derivatives articles and entries to favor the DOD/CIA/DOE stand on the perpetual use of radiation weapons. For that reason alone I encourage everyone to boycott Wikipedia and use alternative services. To give you but one example in these simple entries on Alpha radiation. All forms of Uranium are Alpha emitters. A milligram of uranium gives off about 1,251,000 powerful little Alpha "bullets" a day. Wiki-Lies says this in their careful whitewash of Uranium "Alpha particles have a typical kinetic energy of 5 MeV " What on earth is a 5 MeV you might ask? It means 5 Million Electron Volts. What does that mean you might ask? What is there to compare to it? Ha! The person or Committee who very carefully wrote this article to minimize the effect of Uranium radiation did Not mention that the Force measured in Electron Volts that holds the cells of our bodies together is about 10 Electron Volts. Not 10 Million! Just plain old 10 Electron Volts. Now what on earth do you think happens to a poor little old 10 eV cell in our bodies when it is hit with one 5 Million electron Volt Helium "bullet" after another? Don't be shy or timid, folks, speak up. What do you think happens? Bob On 3/27/07, Romi Elnagar wrote: While trying to understand the complexities of depleted uranium, I came across a suggestion to read the Wikipedia article on "alpha decay," specifically the section on "toxicity." For the benefit of you on this list who may also be mystified by the science of depleted uranium, here is that article. I have to caution you, however, that Wikipedia articles evidently are not entirely trustworthy. Perhaps when our science gurus have time, they can discover any flaws in this particular piece. Hajja Romi Alpha decay From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Alpha decay is a form of radioactive decay in which an atomic nucleus ejects an alpha particle through electromagnetic force and transforms into a nucleus with mass number 4 less and atomic number 2 less. For example: although this is usually written as: (The second form is also preferred because, to the casual observer, the first form appears electrically unbalanced. Fundamentally, the recoiling nucleus is soon stripped of two electrons to neutralize the hungry helium cation.) An alpha particle is a helium nucleus, and both mass number and atomic number are conserved. Alpha decay can essentially be thought of as nuclear fission where the parent nucleus splits into two daughter nuclei. Alpha decay is fundamentally a quantum tunneling process. Unlike beta decay, alpha decay is governed by the strong nuclear force . Alpha particles have a typical kinetic energy of 5 MeV (that is ??0.13% of their total energy, i.e. 110 TJ/kg) and a speed of 15,000 km/s. This corresponds to a velocity of around 0.05c. Even so, they are often absorbed within a few centimetres of air. Because of alpha decay, virtually all of the helium produced on Earth comes from trapped underground deposits associated with minerals containing uranium or thorium, and brought to the surface as a by-product of natural gas production. [ edit] History By 1928, George Gamow had solved the theory of the alpha decay via tunneling. The alpha particle is trapped in a potential well by the nucleus. Classically, it is forbidden to escape, but according to the then newly discovered principles of Quantum mechanics, it has a tiny (but non-zero) probability of "tunneling" through the barrier and appearing on the other side to escape the nucleus. [ edit] Toxicity As any heavy charged particle, alpha particles lose their energy within a very short distance in dense media, causing significant damage to surrounding biomolecules. Generally, external alpha irradiation is not harmful because alpha particles are completely absorbed by the thin layer of dead skin cells in the outermost layer of the skin as well as by a few centimeters of air. However, if a substance radiating alpha particles is ingested, inhaled by, injected into, or introduced through the skin (shrapnel, corrosive chemicals) into an organism it may become a risk, potentially inflicting very serious cellular damage. One common source of alpha radiation is radon, a naturally occurring, radioactive gas found in soil, rock and sometimes groundwater. When radon gas is inhaled, some of the radon gas and its associated decay particles stick to the inner lining of the lung. The decay particles that remain after the air is exhaled will continue to decay over time, damaging the lung's sensitive tissue. [1] Shrapnel from depleted uranium poses another such risk of alpha-emitters. The death of Marie Curie was caused by leukemia from exposure to alpha emitters such as radium during her years of work. The 2006 death of Russian dissident Alexander Litvinenko is thought to be due to his being poisoned with polonium-210 , an active alpha emitter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_decay From burcin.okyar at taek.gov.tr Wed Mar 28 06:14:52 2007 From: burcin.okyar at taek.gov.tr (H.Burcin OKYAR) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:14:52 +0300 Subject: [ RadSafe ] =?iso-8859-9?q?E-posta_g=F6nderiliyor=3A_ICRP=5Fappr?= =?iso-8859-9?q?oves=5Fnew=5Ffundamental=5FRecommendations?= Message-ID: <000f01c7712a$4e87b470$c169a8c0@Burcin> And finally new recommendations from ICRP. The announcement from ICRP web site is given below. For your information Burcin OKYAR TAEA ?leti, a?a??daki dosya veya ba?lant? eki ile g?nderilmeye haz?r: K?sayol: http://www.icrp.org/docs/ICRP_approves_new_fundamental_Recommendations.pdf Not: Bilgisayar vir?slerine kar?? korumak i?in, e-posta programlar? belirli dosya t?rlerini g?nderme ve almay? engelleyebilir. Eklerin nas?l i?lendi?ini g?rmek i?in e-posta g?venlik ayarlar?n?z? denetleyin. From loc at icx.net Wed Mar 28 11:01:39 2007 From: loc at icx.net (Susan Gawarecki) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 11:01:39 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] DOE Issues $14 Million in Funding Opportunity Announcements to U.S. Universities for Nuclear Research Message-ID: <460A9163.2040405@icx.net> Department of Energy Issues $14 Million in Funding Opportunity Announcements to U.S. Universities for Nuclear Research WASHINGTON, DC ? The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) today announced two new Funding Opportunity Announcements (FOA), valued up to $14 million to better integrate the United States? universities into DOE?s nuclear research and development (R&D) programs; and contribute to assuring a new generation of engineers and scientists necessary for pursuing nuclear power - a safe, reliable, affordable and emissions-free source of energy. These FOAs support the Global Nuclear Energy Partnership (GNEP) University Readiness and the Nuclear Energy Research Initiative for Consortia (NERI-C). These new awards will bring total Fiscal Year (FY) 2007 funding to universities that support nuclear energy programs to over $54 million. ?These Funding Opportunity Announcements demonstrate our commitment to pursuing nuclear research, and we are eager for our next generation of scientists and engineers to make scientific breakthroughs that will help diversify our nation?s energy sources,? Assistant Secretary for Nuclear Energy Dennis Spurgeon said. ?Supporting education and training is critical to developing secure, competitive and environmentally responsible nuclear technologies to serve the United States? present and future energy needs.? For the GNEP University Readiness FOA, DOE seeks applications from universities for capability expansion that will directly support GNEP R&D programs. Capability expansion includes laboratory upgrades; faculty support; graduate fellowships; reactor improvements; equipment purchases or upgrades; curriculum development and enhancement; and international student exchange or other similar activities that directly impact a university?s ability to compete in future GNEP R&D solicitations. Estimated funding for the one-time GNEP University Readiness awards total $4 million, with a maximum of $100,000 per award. DOE?s Funding Opportunity Announcement for NERI-C seeks applications from university consortia for R&D that will directly support a broad range of programs in the Office of Nuclear Energy; including: the Advanced Fuel Cycle R&D Program, the Generation IV Nuclear Energy Systems Initiative, and the Nuclear Hydrogen Initiative. Estimated funding for the NERI-C awards totals $10 million. This will be the first year funding for multi-year research grants that could receive total funding of about $30 million. Additional university grants are planned in subsequent years, subject to program requirements and congressional appropriations. Applications for the NERI-C announcement are due May 23, 2007. Applications for the GNEP University Readiness announcement are due by June 7, 2007. DOE anticipates announcing the selection later this year. Applications must be submitted through www.grants.gov to be considered for award. For additional information on this announcement, GNEP and nuclear R&D programs, visit: www.nuclear.gov. NEWS MEDIA CONTACT: Craig Stevens, (202) 586-4940 Wednesday, March 28, 2007 -DOE- From GRAHNk at comcast.net Wed Mar 28 10:33:35 2007 From: GRAHNk at comcast.net (GRAHNk at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:33:35 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Easy Fix for Damaged Ludlum Shields Message-ID: <032820071533.18618.460A8ACF000CD111000048BA221559341405B2B8BEADB9@comcast.net> For soil remediation purposes, we use a number of Ludlum 44-10 2x2 NaI probes equipped with 6" lead shield/colimators. Over time, these become damaged (bumped and banged) or the rim gets bent, or worst case the shield is dropped and is no longer round, so we end up buying new ones. Since these are over $100, we also have administrative issues associated with inventory tracking and such...overall, a big hassle. Recently we discovered that a large tailpipe expander can be used to slightly expand the shield and restore the entire cylindrical space to a round shape. The one we purchased was on sale for $10.99 at the local cheap tool store, but they could probably be picked up at an auto parts store as well. This is the item we bought, not the sale price http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37354 Kelly Grahn Illinois Emergency Management Agency, Division of Nuclear Safety From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Wed Mar 28 10:44:58 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 11:44:58 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The use of K-40 In-Reply-To: <6DB2631F05FDEF4D9F6F633E2FC8C7CF0A3000DD@PMSX1M.fka.forsmark.vattenfall.se> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE7A9828@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> 1. In the U.S. K-39 was separated from K-40/K-41 in the Oak Ridge calutrons (WWII centrifuges) before they were shut down. 2. Yes. Oak Ridge recovered K-39 used in experiments because it was costly. I was informed that, around 1982-84, Argonne ordered a small quantity (one day's production) of K-39 for about $75,000. 3. It was more for the use of K with K-40 removed (K-39). This would be much easier than trying to get "pure" K-40 (which would include K-41) with the carry-over of a lot of K-39. Regards, Jim Muckerheide ========================= >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl >[mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Olsson Mattias :MSO >Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 3:21 AM >To: radsafe at radlab.nl >Subject: [ RadSafe ] The use of K-40 > >There was some talk about potassium on the list recently and I >know that K-40 is sometimes used to verify the stability of >on-line gamma monitors for for example stack emissions from >power plants. It is usually argued that it gives a single, >nice peak at such an energy (1,46 MeV) that it is not >disturbed by background; neither does it cause much background >since the source can be kept very small. (This concerns a >shielded detector, of course.) > >I don't feel any need to question the past experiences of this >nuclide as a verification sample but what I do wonder is: > >1) How is K-40 manufactured (if it is...). Separation from >K-39? Sounds expensive. >2) If K-40 is manufactured as a reasonably enriched product, >who sells it? >3) Is this sort of use of K-40 a common practice? > >Have a good day, folks! > >-- >PhD Mattias Olsson, FTKS >Forsmarks Kraftgrupp AB >SE-742 03 ?sthammar >Sweden > >t. +46(0)173-81952 >m. +46(0)705-801952 >e. mso at forsmark.vattenfall.se > >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and >understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other >settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > From joseroze at netvision.net.il Wed Mar 28 11:49:48 2007 From: joseroze at netvision.net.il (Jose Julio Rozental) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:49:48 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. Message-ID: <01f601c77159$195753d0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Dear colleagues, especially from France, Who can comment about the subject Jose Julio Rozental joseroze at netvision.net.il Israel One dead, 13 injured in X-ray blunder at French hospital http://www.qldcancer.com.au/pdf/November.pdf AFP via Yahoo! News - 12-Oct-06 Agence France-Presse reported that one person died and 13 others fell sick after they were exposed to excessive doses of X-rays as they were being scanned for prostate cancer at Epinal Hospital near Strasbourg in eastern France. The accidents occurred between May-04 and May-05, where staff misused a new software programme that had been installed in the X-ray unit. The Lorraine Regional Hospital Agency said that 23 patients received excessive doses of radiation, and the 13 who fell ill suffered from rectal inflammation and needed surgery to fit an artificial anus. The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. From hflong at pacbell.net Wed Mar 28 13:55:41 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 11:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. In-Reply-To: <01f601c77159$195753d0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Message-ID: <20070328185541.43821.qmail@web83509.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Software! "To REALLY screw up, it takes a computer." Howard Long Jose Julio Rozental wrote: Dear colleagues, especially from France, Who can comment about the subject Jose Julio Rozental joseroze at netvision.net.il Israel One dead, 13 injured in X-ray blunder at French hospital http://www.qldcancer.com.au/pdf/November.pdf AFP via Yahoo! News - 12-Oct-06 Agence France-Presse reported that one person died and 13 others fell sick after they were exposed to excessive doses of X-rays as they were being scanned for prostate cancer at Epinal Hospital near Strasbourg in eastern France. The accidents occurred between May-04 and May-05, where staff misused a new software programme that had been installed in the X-ray unit. The Lorraine Regional Hospital Agency said that 23 patients received excessive doses of radiation, and the 13 who fell ill suffered from rectal inflammation and needed surgery to fit an artificial anus. The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From ryoss at mcw.edu Wed Mar 28 15:03:38 2007 From: ryoss at mcw.edu (Yoss, Robert) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:03:38 -0500 Subject: FW: [ RadSafe ] EMF and brain tumors in animals Message-ID: <3261933EB7678946A50C0314A1AAC07B0D91A27E@MCWMAIL.mcwcorp.net> Posted for Dr. Moulder. -----Original Message----- From: Moulder, John Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:33 PM To: Yoss, Robert Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] EMF and brain tumors in animals You might want to post my comments > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > Behalf Of Wes > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:12 AM > To: radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: [ RadSafe ] EMF and brain tumors in animals > > Radsafers, > > Here is an article that claims that 95 per cent of animals exposed to > electromagnetic radiation within the safe limits as per international > standards may develop brain tumours. > > http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=1&theme=&usrsess=1&id=150 > 944 > > > > At first I thought it was some really fringe stuff, but the author, Prof > Jitendra Behari, seems very capable. A quick PubMed search (see below) > shows > some impressive research articles. Nothing Behari has published to date supports such a statement. Such a statement is also contradicted for both RF and ELF by a substantial number of published peer-reviewed studies. Of course, X-rays are also electromagnetic radiation and X-rays will cause brain cancer in rodents. But even X-rays would not get you a 95% incidence rate. ----------------- John Moulder (jmoulder at mcw.edu) Professor of Radiation Oncology Director, Center for Medical Countermeasures Against Radiological Terrorism Medical College of Wisconsin From mcmahankl at ornl.gov Wed Mar 28 15:57:18 2007 From: mcmahankl at ornl.gov (McMahan, Kimberly L.) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:57:18 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. In-Reply-To: <01f601c77159$195753d0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Message-ID: <71FDA9EBE5133A48BCCFE0200C9B1D9004EFD33D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov> The IRSN investigative report, in French, can be found at: http://www.irsn.org/document/files/File/Internet/Actualites/synthese_mis sion_radiotherapie_epinal.pdf Unless I mis-read the document (definitely a possibility), the software was not the direct cause, and these were not diagnostic "scans," they were conformational radiotherapy treatments. Treatment planning decisions were made by the medical staff at that hospital to deliver higher doses in order to control the prostate cancers. The typical protocol calls for a dose to the prostate of 70-74 Gy, while for these patients the decision was made to deliver 78 Gy. This higher dose over-exposed the nearby rectal tissue, with severe consequences. There is some discussion in the report about the decision to effectively engage in a clinical trial, and without informing the patients of increased risks. Kim McMAHAN ORNL External Dosimetry -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Jose Julio Rozental Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:50 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. Dear colleagues, especially from France, Who can comment about the subject Jose Julio Rozental joseroze at netvision.net.il Israel One dead, 13 injured in X-ray blunder at French hospital http://www.qldcancer.com.au/pdf/November.pdf AFP via Yahoo! News - 12-Oct-06 Agence France-Presse reported that one person died and 13 others fell sick after they were exposed to excessive doses of X-rays as they were being scanned for prostate cancer at Epinal Hospital near Strasbourg in eastern France. The accidents occurred between May-04 and May-05, where staff misused a new software programme that had been installed in the X-ray unit. The Lorraine Regional Hospital Agency said that 23 patients received excessive doses of radiation, and the 13 who fell ill suffered from rectal inflammation and needed surgery to fit an artificial anus. The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From joseroze at netvision.net.il Thu Mar 29 08:07:29 2007 From: joseroze at netvision.net.il (Jose Julio Rozental) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:07:29 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. References: <71FDA9EBE5133A48BCCFE0200C9B1D9004EFD33D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov> Message-ID: <00ac01c77203$34e9e2c0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Dear Kim, Thank you for your input, I'll study the site and also I'll ask for more details about - I hope more imputs from colleagues will be arrive meanwhile. Only to inform about doses - I was submitted to radiotherapy to prostate treatment in Israel, last year, April 2006 - 80 Gy, 40 fraction, 2 Gy per fraction. Jose Julio Rozental joseroze at netvision.net.il Israel ----- Original Message ----- From: "McMahan, Kimberly L." To: "Jose Julio Rozental" ; Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:57 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. > The IRSN investigative report, in French, can be found at: > http://www.irsn.org/document/files/File/Internet/Actualites/synthese_mis > sion_radiotherapie_epinal.pdf > > Unless I mis-read the document (definitely a possibility), the software > was not the direct cause, and these were not diagnostic "scans," they > were conformational radiotherapy treatments. Treatment planning > decisions were made by the medical staff at that hospital to deliver > higher doses in order to control the prostate cancers. The typical > protocol calls for a dose to the prostate of 70-74 Gy, while for these > patients the decision was made to deliver 78 Gy. This higher dose > over-exposed the nearby rectal tissue, with severe consequences. There > is some discussion in the report about the decision to effectively > engage in a clinical trial, and without informing the patients of > increased risks. > > Kim McMAHAN ORNL External Dosimetry > > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > Behalf Of Jose Julio Rozental > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:50 PM > To: radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > independent inquiry into the affair. > > Dear colleagues, especially from France, > > Who can comment about the subject > > Jose Julio Rozental > joseroze at netvision.net.il > Israel > > One dead, 13 injured in X-ray blunder at French hospital > http://www.qldcancer.com.au/pdf/November.pdf > > AFP via Yahoo! News - 12-Oct-06 > > Agence France-Presse reported that one person died and 13 others fell > sick after they were exposed to excessive doses of X-rays as they were > being scanned for prostate cancer at Epinal Hospital near Strasbourg in > eastern France. > > The accidents occurred between May-04 and May-05, where staff misused a > new software programme that had been installed in the X-ray unit. The > Lorraine Regional Hospital Agency said that 23 patients received > excessive doses of radiation, and the 13 who fell ill suffered from > rectal inflammation and needed surgery to fit an artificial anus. > > The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the > affair. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 29 09:50:18 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 07:50:18 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The 2007 Dosimetry & Records Symposium Message-ID: <460B6FBA.3131.560D3F4@sandyfl.cox.net> The 2007 Dosimetry & Records Symposium -- co sponsored by Global Dosimetry Solutions, Landauer and Panasonic -- cordially invites you to the 26th International Dosimetry & Records Symposium AGENDA and other details: http://www.dosimetryresources.com/2007%20Meeting%20Main.htm As in 2006, this will be a joint symposium for Dosimetry and Records - with common plus parallel track sessions. Topics planned are "Nuclear Renaissance" ; Nuclear Cycle ; Homeland Security ; Emergency Response ; Regulatory changes and updates ;Litigation ; Environmental ; Confidentiality ; Dose Reconstruction ; EPD ; Establishing a Program for Accreditation etc Special sessions are also planned for " Hands On" equipment training and panel discussions on open issues REGISTRATION: Attendees $350 Guests (over12) $175 On Line Registration --link below https://www.SignUp4.net/Public/ap.aspx?EID=ANNU23E DATES: Arrival on Sunday, June 3, 2007 Sessions from Monday, June 4 (8:00am) to Friday, June 8, 2007 (5:00pm) Depart on Saturday, June 9 at your leisure VENUE: Portland Marriott at Sable Oaks 200 Sable Oaks Drive South Portland Maine 04106 USA (207) 871 8000 (800) 752 8810 http://marriott.com/property/propertypage/PWMAP HOTEL ROOM RESERVATION Please contact the Portland Marriott at Sable Oaks directly at (800) 752 8810 and identify yourself as an attendee of the "Dosimetry & Records Symposium June 3 -9; 2007" to avail yourself of the special negotiated rates: Single or Double Guestroom @ $ 149 plus 7% tax Gov?t Rate @ $ 82 plus 7% tax (Applicable only to active U.S. Gov?t/DOD/DOE employees - Valid ID required) AIRPORT: Portland ; Maine (PWM) http://www.portlandjetport.org/ Other nearby airports are Boston Logan (BOS) approx 2 hours by car and Manchester (MHT) approx 1 1/2 hours by car. GROUND TRANSPORTATION: Hotel provides complimentary transportation from and to Portland , Maine (PWM) airport Looking forward to your participation Thank you, 2007 Dosimetry & Records Symposium Task Force Inid Deneau Landauer Chairperson Sandy Perle Global Dosimetry Solutions Co-Chairperson Bruce Dicey Consultant Dante Wells Savannah River Company Deborah O?Connor TXU/Comanche Peak Isabelle McCabe Radiation Safety and Control Services Pam Heckman Energy Solutions Richard Cadogan Argonne National Labs Ash Chabra Panasonic Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From edmok at mphysics.com Thu Mar 29 17:22:45 2007 From: edmok at mphysics.com (Ed Mok) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:22:45 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independentinquiry into the affair. In-Reply-To: <00ac01c77203$34e9e2c0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Message-ID: <00dc01c77250$c6fe1940$192e41ab@corp.stanfordmed.org> Is this the same incidents? http://www.playfuls.com/news_10_17575-Translation-Error-Said-To-Have-Led-To- Hospital-Deaths.html Ed Mok Stanford Cancer Center > >-----Original Message----- > >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > >Behalf Of Jose Julio Rozental > >Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:07 AM > >To: McMahan, Kimberly L.; radsafe at radlab.nl > >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > >independentinquiry into the affair. > > > >Dear Kim, > > > >Thank you for your input, > > > > > > > >I'll study the site and also I'll ask for more details about - I hope > >more > >imputs from colleagues will be arrive meanwhile. > > > >Only to inform about doses - I was submitted to radiotherapy to prostate > >treatment in Israel, last year, April 2006 - 80 Gy, 40 fraction, 2 Gy per > >fraction. > > > > > > > >Jose Julio Rozental > > > >joseroze at netvision.net.il > > > >Israel > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "McMahan, Kimberly L." > >To: "Jose Julio Rozental" ; > > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:57 PM > >Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > >independent inquiry into the affair. > > > > > >> The IRSN investigative report, in French, can be found at: > >> > >http://www.irsn.org/document/files/File/Internet/Actualites/synthese_mis > >> sion_radiotherapie_epinal.pdf > >> > >> Unless I mis-read the document (definitely a possibility), the software > >> was not the direct cause, and these were not diagnostic "scans," they > >> were conformational radiotherapy treatments. Treatment planning > >> decisions were made by the medical staff at that hospital to deliver > >> higher doses in order to control the prostate cancers. The typical > >> protocol calls for a dose to the prostate of 70-74 Gy, while for these > >> patients the decision was made to deliver 78 Gy. This higher dose > >> over-exposed the nearby rectal tissue, with severe consequences. There > >> is some discussion in the report about the decision to effectively > >> engage in a clinical trial, and without informing the patients of > >> increased risks. > >> > >> Kim McMAHAN ORNL External Dosimetry > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > >> Behalf Of Jose Julio Rozental > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:50 PM > >> To: radsafe at radlab.nl > >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > >> independent inquiry into the affair. > >> > >> Dear colleagues, especially from France, > >> > >> Who can comment about the subject > >> > >> Jose Julio Rozental > >> joseroze at netvision.net.il > >> Israel > >> > >> One dead, 13 injured in X-ray blunder at French hospital > >> http://www.qldcancer.com.au/pdf/November.pdf > >> > >> AFP via Yahoo! News - 12-Oct-06 > >> > >> Agence France-Presse reported that one person died and 13 others fell > >> sick after they were exposed to excessive doses of X-rays as they were > >> being scanned for prostate cancer at Epinal Hospital near Strasbourg in > >> eastern France. > >> > >> The accidents occurred between May-04 and May-05, where staff misused a > >> new software programme that had been installed in the X-ray unit. The > >> Lorraine Regional Hospital Agency said that 23 patients received > >> excessive doses of radiation, and the 13 who fell ill suffered from > >> rectal inflammation and needed surgery to fit an artificial anus. > >> > >> The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the > >> affair. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >> > >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >> > >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Lee_M_Livesey at RL.gov Thu Mar 29 17:38:09 2007 From: Lee_M_Livesey at RL.gov (Livesey, Lee M) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:38:09 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radiological Containments Message-ID: <4A768AAF28C241448F8DE92A505E799901ACFF29@EX01-1.rl.gov> I am interested in benchmarking our radiological containment design, specifications, manufacture, and inspection against other facilities. Does anyone have references other than the American Glovebox Society publication that I might review? Thanks, Lee Livesey CH2MHILL, Hanford From Peter.Thomas at arpansa.gov.au Thu Mar 29 18:23:28 2007 From: Peter.Thomas at arpansa.gov.au (Peter Thomas) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:23:28 +1000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered anindependent inquiry into the affair. [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Message-ID: Ed, Yes it is the same incident. There were preliminary reports in October last year which were discussed on Radsafe and a press release at the time suggested full reports would be available by the end of 2006. The recent press surrounding the incident seems to be the result of the delivery of these more detailed reports. I've downloaded the PDF of the IRSN report that Kim McMahan mentioned. My French is non-existent so I've submitted it to the Google translator and am now in the process of trying to recast the resulting Franglais into something that makes sense to me yet hopefully is still true to the original. The IRSN report seems to take a much wider aim than simply the overdoses. There's also stuff about record-keeping, informed choice, training and so on. Peter Thomas Medical Physics Section ARPANSA -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Ed Mok Sent: Friday, 30 March 2007 8:23 AM To: 'McMahan, Kimberly L.'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered anindependentinquiry into the affair. Is this the same incidents? http://www.playfuls.com/news_10_17575-Translation-Error-Said-To-Have-Led -To- Hospital-Deaths.html Ed Mok Stanford Cancer Center > >-----Original Message----- > >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > >Behalf Of Jose Julio Rozental > >Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:07 AM > >To: McMahan, Kimberly L.; radsafe at radlab.nl > >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > >independentinquiry into the affair. > > > >Dear Kim, > > > >Thank you for your input, > > > > > > > >I'll study the site and also I'll ask for more details about - I hope > >more imputs from colleagues will be arrive meanwhile. > > > >Only to inform about doses - I was submitted to radiotherapy to > >prostate treatment in Israel, last year, April 2006 - 80 Gy, 40 > >fraction, 2 Gy per fraction. > > > > > > > >Jose Julio Rozental > > > >joseroze at netvision.net.il > > > >Israel > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "McMahan, Kimberly L." > >To: "Jose Julio Rozental" ; > > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:57 PM > >Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > >independent inquiry into the affair. > > > > > >> The IRSN investigative report, in French, can be found at: > >> > >http://www.irsn.org/document/files/File/Internet/Actualites/synthese_ > >mis > >> sion_radiotherapie_epinal.pdf > >> > >> Unless I mis-read the document (definitely a possibility), the > >> software was not the direct cause, and these were not diagnostic > >> "scans," they were conformational radiotherapy treatments. > >> Treatment planning decisions were made by the medical staff at that > >> hospital to deliver higher doses in order to control the prostate > >> cancers. The typical protocol calls for a dose to the prostate of > >> 70-74 Gy, while for these patients the decision was made to deliver > >> 78 Gy. This higher dose over-exposed the nearby rectal tissue, with > >> severe consequences. There is some discussion in the report about > >> the decision to effectively engage in a clinical trial, and without > >> informing the patients of increased risks. > >> > >> Kim McMAHAN ORNL External Dosimetry > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] > >> On Behalf Of Jose Julio Rozental > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:50 PM > >> To: radsafe at radlab.nl > >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > >> independent inquiry into the affair. > >> > >> Dear colleagues, especially from France, > >> > >> Who can comment about the subject > >> > >> Jose Julio Rozental > >> joseroze at netvision.net.il > >> Israel > >> > >> One dead, 13 injured in X-ray blunder at French hospital > >> http://www.qldcancer.com.au/pdf/November.pdf > >> > >> AFP via Yahoo! News - 12-Oct-06 > >> > >> Agence France-Presse reported that one person died and 13 others > >> fell sick after they were exposed to excessive doses of X-rays as > >> they were being scanned for prostate cancer at Epinal Hospital near > >> Strasbourg in eastern France. > >> > >> The accidents occurred between May-04 and May-05, where staff > >> misused a new software programme that had been installed in the > >> X-ray unit. The Lorraine Regional Hospital Agency said that 23 > >> patients received excessive doses of radiation, and the 13 who fell > >> ill suffered from rectal inflammation and needed surgery to fit an > >> artificial anus. > >> > >> The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into > >> the affair. _______________________________________________ > >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >> > >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > >> understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >> > >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other > >> settings > >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > >understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ *********************************************************************************** Important: This email (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain confidential and / or privileged information. If you are not the intended addressee, you are prohibited from relaying on, distributing, disclosing, copying or in any other way using any information in this email. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and erase all copies. Any opinions expressed in this email are not necessarily held or authorised by Australian Radiation Protection And Nuclear Safety Agency (ARPANSA). Whilst ARPANSA has taken all reasonable steps to ensure this is email is virus free, it accepts no responsibility and makes no warranty. The recipient should take its own steps to ensure there is no virus and bears full responsibility for any use. Australian Radiation Protection And Nuclear Safety Agency *********************************************************************************** From rhelbig at california.com Fri Mar 30 04:23:47 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 01:23:47 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Addressing Wikipedia Articles Message-ID: <02e901c772af$42e510a0$41425142@roger1> Wow! I'm impressed, John! Way to go, guy! Does anybody want to join in with John to start the re-do, or whatever it is called, of Wiki? Tis is certainly a long overdue project, John.Thank so much for the :"can-do" attitude. Go check out what John has underway, folks. You Will Like It! Bob Nichols On 3/28/07, edivorce2000 < edivorce2000 at yahoo.com> wrote: I created a "sandbox" page on Wikipedia in which we can work on changes to articles. I also wrote some comments under the "discussion" tab. I placed a link to the "alpha decay" page that concerns where expressed about. Maybe a good way to start is make a list of links to articles we need to address. Here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Edivorce/DUsandbox John From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 1 09:51:06 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 07:51:06 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Message-ID: <45E685EA.18418.28340D@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Garrett wants MPs to reveal stance on nuclear plant location Radioactive leak at Czech plant Thai Min: No Delay In Pwr Plant Bidding; Mulls Nuclear Plant Lawmakers tour landfill for low-level nuclear waste TEPCO finds more nuclear lapses, no shutdowns now Agreement to Provide Four AP1000 Nuclear Power Plants in China Diablo gets assessment timeline OSHA Seeks Information From Stakeholders on Ionizing Radiation ------------------------------------------------- Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Pioneer Sun News Mar 1 - You may not have heard too much lately about that planned nuclear power plant in southern Levy County S but that doesn't mean plans have stopped. Two representatives from Progress Energy spoke to the Williston Rotary Club on Tuesday and brought the group up to date on work being undertaken to possibly get the power plant built. "We haven't made a final decision to build," said Gail T. Simpson, manager of Public Policy and Constituency Relations for the company. "We haven't purchased the land. There are still more tests to be done." Rosemary Fagler, Community Relations Manager for the region, described the needs of consumers and how growth has affected the company. "New homes are so much larger now," she said, noting that more space required more energy to heat and cool, there were more appliances today than in earlier years and computers were in most homes, many running on a 24/7 basis. Simpson pointed out that within 50 years the "population is expected to double in the state of Florida." The speakers commented that Progress Energy has to start thinking about that now, even though its needs might be 10 or 20 years away. Simpson answered the question of why Levy was chosen. "There are limited locations in Florida. A lot of hot water is required, and there are very few places that using that much water would not have an impact." The Levy County site would draw water from the Gulf. "We also needed a couple thousand acres in a rural area. "The Levy County location is a preferred site for a lot of technical and other reasons." The company still has a lot of processes and permitting to go through, including the state, the Public Service Commission, the Department of Environmental Protection and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. "We'll file an application with the NRC by the end of next year," Simpson said. "They require all sorts of information," including weather data and soil borings. Fagler spoke about the economic benefits, including property taxes, 1,000 to 2,000 construction jobs, 500 permanent jobs and increased local investment. She also said the plant would be environmentally friendly with no greenhouse gas emissions. When asked by the Pioneer whether they would ask for tax breaks, which many industries do as they move into an area, they said things like that hadn't been considered as yet. "We hope to have a good relationship with the county," Simpson added. ----------------- Garrett wants MPs to reveal stance on nuclear plant location Opposition environment spokesman Peter Garrett has tried to make all Lower House MPs reveal whether they would be happy to have a nuclear power plant built in their electorates. The Opposition has been pressuring the Government to say where nuclear reactors might be located if a nuclear industry is developed in Australia. Many Coalition MPs have already said they would not want a nuclear plant in their seat. Mr Garrett attempted to have all MPs explain their stance on the issue in Parliament. "[I] noted the stated opposition outside the house of a growing number of members to the location of a nuclear power plant in their electorate, [I'm] providing all members with an opportunity to come into the house and declare their opposition to the location of a nuclear power plant in their electorates," he said. Mr Garrett's motion was defeated by the Government. Meanwhile the Greens want the owners of any future nuclear power stations in Australia to be legally responsible for any damage that might be caused to private property in Australia. Greens Senator Christine Milne says there is a standard nuclear exclusion clause in every insurance policy, which leaves home owners liable for any costs resulting from an accident at a nuclear facility. Senator Milne is calling on the Government to back a Greens' Bill to force a change. The Greens will be moving a private member's Bill which will make it very clear that nuclear facilities bear absolute liability for any damage to property surrounding that facility," she said. "Now if the Government doesn't support that then it will be leaving all Australians vulnerable." ------------------- Radioactive leak at Czech plant Prague - About 2 000 liters of radioactive water leaked at the Czech Republic's Temelin nuclear power plant, but did not contaminate the environment, an official said on Thursday. The water leaked early on Tuesday at the plant's first unit, which is currently shut down for fuel replacement, plant spokesperson Milan Nebesar said. "The water went to a special tank through a special sewage system and none of it leaked to the environment," Nebesar said. He said that an open valve caused the leak. The plant's second unit was running at full capacity. Nebesar said the plant's management has informed Czech and Austrian authorities about the leak. The Czech Republic and Austria have been at odds for years over the plant. Environmentalists in Austria have demanded that the plant, located only 60 kilometres from the Austrian border, be closed because of security concerns. Czech authorities insist it is safe. Construction of the plant's two 1 000-megawatt units, based on Russian designs, started in the 1980s. The reactors were later upgraded with US technology, but have remained controversial because of frequent malfunctions. ---------------- Thai Min: No Delay In Pwr Plant Bidding; Mulls Nuclear Plant BANGKOK -(Dow Jones)- Thai Energy Minister Piyasvasti Amranand reiterated Thursday that bidding for new power plants will go ahead in April as planned. The Thai government plans to open bidding for new power plants to increase the country's installed capacity by 3,000-4,000 megawatts from the current 26,430 MW. The new power plants will come onstream in 2011-2013 to meet the country's increasing power demand. The ministry will also look into the possibility of building a nuclear power plant to meet Thailand's electricity demand, which is expected to increase around 5%-6% in the next decade, Piyasvasti told a group of foreign reporters. The ministry will consider all types of fuel for the power plants that are up for bidding to minimize dependency on natural gas, Piyasvasti said. Natural gas accounts for nearly 70% of fuel for power generation in Thailand. "We can't rule out any specific type of fuel. We have to consider all available options including natural gas, coal, hydropower and nuclear energy," Piyasvasti said. "There will be no requirement on sources of fuel. Participants in the new bidding can propose to build power plants by using any fuel they prefer," he said. Piyasvasti had earlier said he would like to see coal-fired power plants account for 40% of new capacity to reduce dependency on natural gas. His softer stance comes after villagers from the western province of Prachuab Khiri Khan protested against coal-fired power plants and nuclear power plants in their province. The villagers' protest also led to the cancellation of a public hearing earlier this month on the Energy Ministry's draft version of a 15-year power development plan. In March, the Energy Ministry will also open a separate bidding for small power plants or alternative fuel power plants, for a total installed capacity of 1,700 MW, said Piyasvasti. Nuclear Power Plant Likely To Start In 13-15 Yrs Thailand needs to consider building a nuclear power plant, given the limited supply of conventional fuel such as natural gas and oil, Piyasvasti said. A feasibility study on the proposed nuclear power plant will be undertaken soon, he said, adding that the plant could come onstream "maybe in the next 13- 15 years," he added. Thailand had planned to build a nuclear power plant in the mid-1970s in the eastern province of Chonburi, but abandoned the plan when it discovered natural gas in the Gulf of Thailand and the Andaman Sea. Even though the investment cost for building a nuclear power plant would be three to four times higher than a conventional power plant, the fuel cost would be a lot cheaper than for other fuel types, said Piyasvasti. "We want to bring the data (on the nuclear power plant) to the public and debate rationally, not emotionally," said Kurujit Nakornthap, deputy permanent secretary of the Energy Ministry. Under the draft power development plan for 2007-2021, nuclear power plants with a combined capacity of 5,000 megawatts would be built to supply electricity starting 2020 and 2021. Other new power plants would use coal and natural gas as fuel. ------------------- Lawmakers tour landfill for low-level nuclear waste SNELLING (Charleston Post & Courier) Mar 1 - About 60 people, including more than a dozen lawmakers, learned how low-level nuclear waste is disposed of during a tour Wednesday at a low-level radioactive waste landfill in rural Barnwell County. Rep. Joan Brady was surprised to learn the trenches where the waste is buried aren't very deep so they don't interfere with the underground aquifers. "It's very valuable to see what the trenches look like. They're very different than what I thought," said Brady, R-Columbia. The lawmaker and others wanted to see the 235-acre Chem-Nuclear site firsthand as legislators decide whether to change a decision to close the landfill next year to all but three states: South Carolina, New Jersey and Connecticut. The 36-year-old landfill currently accepts nuclear power plant debris and items such as radioactive hospital clothing from 34 states, where it is buried, said Michael Benjamin, a manager at Chem-Nuclear. A bill by Rep. Billy Witherspoon, R-Conway, would allow the facility to continue accepting the material through 2023, but some environmentalists oppose the plan. Witherspoon leads the House agriculture and environmental committee that will consider the bill. EnergySolutions, a Utah-based company that operates the site owned by the state, invited an 18-member House committee to tour the facility Wednesday. At first, the company denied a request by an environmentalist to attend, which raised questions about whether the trip violated the state's Freedom of Information Act. Eventually it was opened to the public. About 60 people, including 15 of the 18 legislators on Witherspoon's committee, toured the site. Rep. Laurie Funderburk, D-Camden, said she was surprised by how much room was left at the landfill. She also found it interesting only grass could be planted on top of trenches because tree roots could be a problem growing into where the waste is buried. The site, among the county's biggest employers, is financially important to the local economy and surrounding schools. The site's contributions make up roughly 10 percent of Barnwell County's overall budget, and supply $1 million split among the county's three school districts. "If it closes, we're in deep trouble," said County Council member Lowell Jowers. "This is a vital part of this county." --------------- TEPCO finds more nuclear lapses, no shutdowns now TOKYO, March 1 (Reuters) - Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) has found more past data falsifications at its nuclear power plants in addition to nearly 200 improper modifications of technical data discovered in January, the utility and the government said on Thursday. But the latest discoveries are unlikely, at least for now, to spark a scandal like one in 2003 that closed all of TEPCO's nuclear power generators for inspections, the government and industry analysts said. An official with the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, a unit of Japan's Trade Ministry, who was asked if the government would order TEPCO to shut any nuclear units, said it had given the company a month to finish going over its records. "The government has told (TEPCO) to continue to inspect past records of all of its power generation facilities for such inappropriate matters as data falsifications, and to report results by the end of March," he said. "Then we will make the final decision. But the reported falsifications are not happening now and they do not threaten operational safety. Many of them are old and are past the statute of limitations." TEPCO said it had found lapses at six of its 17 nuclear units as well as other thermal and hydro power plants. The utility reported them to the government on Thursday. TEPCO had failed to report unplanned shutdowns at its Kashiwazaki Kariwa nuclear plant, the world's largest, in 1992 and its Fukushima Daini plant in 1985, even though utilities are required to report such closures to regulators immediately, the Safety Agency official said. Both plants are located in northern Japan. TEPCO said in January it had discovered 199 improper data modifications made from 1977 to 2002 at three nuclear power plants and two thermal plants. A spate of recent discoveries of data modifications have spurred public concern that Tokyo may again face the risk of a blackout as it did after TEPCO's cover-ups of safety blunders in 2003. However, industry analyst Shigeki Matsumoto with Nomura Securities Co. said the scandal was unlikely to repeat itself. "The possibility is not entirely zero, as the complete results are due in March and something may come out. But chances are slim," he said. "Previously, TEPCO covered up cracks at nuclear reactor cores. But the most recent inspections have not found such a bad practice, which can threaten operational safety," he said. TEPCO Managing Director Ichiro Takekuro, who also serves as chief nuclear officer, told a news briefing the utility had checked substantial parts of its facilities. TEPCO runs 17 of Japan's 55 nuclear power units, providing Tokyo and the surrounding area with electricity equivalent to the entire demand of Britain. In 2002, the utility admitted it had falsified nuclear safety data for more than a decade. Public objections and the government instructions forced TEPCO to shut each unit for inspections. All of them were briefly shut at the same time in 2003, prompting TEPCO to ask the public to save electricity in order to avoid a blackout. ---------------- Westinghouse, Shaw Group Ink Framework Agreement to Provide Four AP1000 Nuclear Power Plants in China BEIJING, March 1 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Westinghouse Electric Company and its consortium partner, The Shaw Group, Inc., (NYSE: SGR - News) announced they have successfully negotiated a framework agreement with China's State Nuclear Power Technology Company (SNPTC) to provide four AP1000 nuclear power plants in China. For the media and press, a formal signing of the framework agreement was held on March 1 with senior Chinese government officials in attendance. The framework agreement confirms the basic requirements and obligations of all parties involved and includes significant funding for long lead materials and early engineering. The agreement follows the selection of the Westinghouse Consortium as the technology partner for the next generation of nuclear power plants that was announced 10 weeks ago. The selection of the Westinghouse consortium by SNPTC was the result of an extensive and rigorous two-year competitive bidding process. Final contracts for the four plants, to be constructed at the Sanmen and Haiyang sites, will be finalized by mid year. Construction is expected to begin in 2009, with the first plant becoming operational in 2013. Jim Fici, Sr. Vice President of Customer Relations and Sales, signed the framework agreement for Westinghouse: "This is a very significant milestone in the process that will result in the introduction of the Westinghouse AP1000 to China," he said. "More importantly, reaching the framework agreement in such a timely manner demonstrates the positive and growing relationships between SNPTC and the Westinghouse consortium. It also proves the commitment of all parties to bring these first four plants on line in a timely and efficient manner." Westinghouse, a group company of Toshiba Corporation, is the world's pioneering nuclear power company and is a leading supplier of nuclear plant products and technologies to utilities throughout the world. Westinghouse, with Shaw, supplied the world's first PWR in 1957 in Shippingport, Pa. Today, Westinghouse technology is the basis for approximately one-half of the world's operating nuclear plants, including 60 percent of those in the United States. ------------------ Diablo gets assessment timeline Responding to a federal court order, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission on Feb. 26 ordered its staff to prepare a new assessment of the potential environmental effects of a terrorist attack on Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant's dry cask storage project. The staff has 90 days to complete the study, which will explore the likelihood of such an attack and possible consequences. The order comes as a result of a lawsuit filed by watchdog group San Luis Obispo Mothers for Peace. In the lawsuit, the group said the NRC hadn't taken an attack into account when it licensed power company PG&E to construct the casks, which will hold Diablo Canyon's spent fuel rods. The plant's current in-plant storage facilities are nearing capacity. "We will be watching to be sure the resulting study is done thoroughly and in accordance with federal law and the Ninth Circuit Court ruling," Mothers for Peace spokeswoman Jane Swanson said in a statement. ------------ OSHA Seeks Information From Stakeholders on Ionizing Radiation WASHINGTON, Feb. 27 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is inviting the public to participate in informal stakeholder meetings on Occupational Exposure to Ionizing Radiation. These planned meetings will continue OSHA's information collection efforts and will add to the information obtained in the Request for Information published on May 5, 2005. "These meetings are an exceptional opportunity for us to hear from stakeholders and exchange data, share ideas and varying points of view," said Assistant Secretary of Labor for OSHA, Edwin G. Foulke, Jr. The first stakeholder meeting will be held March 16, 2007, at the Department of Labor, Frances Perkins Building, 200 Constitution Ave. N.W., Washington, D.C. 20210. The meeting will cover the uses of ionizing radiation in the healing arts (including medicine, dentistry, chiropractor service, veterinary service, etc.). The second stakeholder meeting will be held in conjunction with the American Society for Nondestructive Testing's Annual Research Symposium in Orlando, Fla., March 26, 2007. All meetings will begin at 8:30 a.m. and will end by 4:30 p.m. OSHA requests the public be prepared to discuss the following issues regarding occupational exposure to ionizing radiation in their industry/occupation: uses of ionizing radiation, controls utilized to minimize exposure and available exposure data and training. Those who wish to participate in a stakeholder meeting must notify OSHA by e-mail at navas.liset at dol.gov, FAX at (202) 693-1678, or by mail to Liset Navas, Directorate of Standards and Guidance, Occupational Safety and Health Administration, U.S. Department of Labor, Room N3718, 200 Constitution Ave., N.W., Washington, D.C. 20210 no later than March 9, 2007. Under the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970, employers are responsible for providing a safe and healthful workplace for their employees. OSHA's role is to assure the safety and health of America's working men and women by setting and enforcing standards; providing training, outreach, and education; establishing partnerships; and encouraging continual process improvement in workplace safety and health. For more information, visit http://www.osha.gov/. This news release text is on the Internet at http://www.osha.gov/. Information on this release will be made available to sensory impaired individuals upon request. Voice phone: (202) 693-1999. ------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From frantaj at aecl.ca Thu Mar 1 10:23:01 2007 From: frantaj at aecl.ca (Franta, Jaroslav) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 11:23:01 -0500 Subject: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nu clear plant planning moves ahead Message-ID: <0F8BD87EE693D411A1A500508BAC86F70B4F5B0B@sps13.aecl.ca> I can see the great newsworthiness of this story..... "About 2 000 liters of radioactive water leaked.... to a special tank through a special sewage system.... an open valve caused the leak." But I think that even with my amateurish journalistic talents, I could easily top that: "Tens of thousands of liters of radioactive water leaked for days.... from the reactor to a special steam generator through a special piping system.... an open pipe caused the leak." Jaro ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl]On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: March 1, 2007 10:51 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl; powernet at hps1.org Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Index: Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Garrett wants MPs to reveal stance on nuclear plant location Radioactive leak at Czech plant Thai Min: No Delay In Pwr Plant Bidding; Mulls Nuclear Plant Lawmakers tour landfill for low-level nuclear waste TEPCO finds more nuclear lapses, no shutdowns now Agreement to Provide Four AP1000 Nuclear Power Plants in China Diablo gets assessment timeline OSHA Seeks Information From Stakeholders on Ionizing Radiation ------------------------------------------------- Radioactive leak at Czech plant Prague - About 2 000 liters of radioactive water leaked at the Czech Republic's Temelin nuclear power plant, but did not contaminate the environment, an official said on Thursday. The water leaked early on Tuesday at the plant's first unit, which is currently shut down for fuel replacement, plant spokesperson Milan Nebesar said. "The water went to a special tank through a special sewage system and none of it leaked to the environment," Nebesar said. He said that an open valve caused the leak. The plant's second unit was running at full capacity. Nebesar said the plant's management has informed Czech and Austrian authorities about the leak. The Czech Republic and Austria have been at odds for years over the plant. Environmentalists in Austria have demanded that the plant, located only 60 kilometres from the Austrian border, be closed because of security concerns. Czech authorities insist it is safe. Construction of the plant's two 1 000-megawatt units, based on Russian designs, started in the 1980s. The reactors were later upgraded with US technology, but have remained controversial because of frequent malfunctions. ---------------- CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVILEGED INFORMATION NOTICE This e-mail, and any attachments, may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright, or exempt from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, disclosure, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or reliance on this information may be unlawful and is strictly prohibited. AVIS D'INFORMATION CONFIDENTIELLE ET PRIVIL?GI?E Le pr?sent courriel, et toute pi?ce jointe, peut contenir de l'information qui est confidentielle, r?gie par les droits d'auteur, ou interdite de divulgation. Tout examen, divulgation, retransmission, diffusion ou autres utilisations non autoris?es de l'information ou d?pendance non autoris?e envers celle-ci peut ?tre ill?gale et est strictement interdite. From maurysis at peoplepc.com Thu Mar 1 13:38:09 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 13:38:09 -0600 Subject: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nu clear plant planning moves ahead In-Reply-To: <0F8BD87EE693D411A1A500508BAC86F70B4F5B0B@sps13.aecl.ca> References: <0F8BD87EE693D411A1A500508BAC86F70B4F5B0B@sps13.aecl.ca> Message-ID: <45E72BA1.7090604@peoplepc.com> Awwright young man, you had better watch these embellishments or the atomic tooth fairy will smite thee with a blinding blue flash!!!! And they might impound thy keyboard! Your behavior is being surveiled .... Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) ===================== Franta, Jaroslav wrote: >I can see the great newsworthiness of this story..... > >"About 2 000 liters of radioactive water leaked.... to a special tank >through a special sewage system.... an open valve caused the leak." > >But I think that even with my amateurish journalistic talents, I could >easily top that: > >"Tens of thousands of liters of radioactive water leaked for days.... from >the reactor to a special steam > -----------------snipped------------- From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Thu Mar 1 16:00:22 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 14:00:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <1919271803-1172354824-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1400038289-@bxe056-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <431142.26825.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Of course, there is no indication that this equipment will prevent terrorist from blowing up aircraft. They read the news and are very adaptable. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > ALARA means what it says, as low as reasonably > achievable. This does not mean zero dose. Evaluation > of the task and supportt for or against the dose > determines if the dose to be received is warranted. > I suspect that a majority of travelers worldwide > would accept this small dose for the peace and mind > of knowing that the risk of a catastrophy has been > reduced, even if the risk has not been entirely > eliminated. > > Sandy Perle > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: Franz Sch?nhofer > Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:38:27 > To:,"'stewart farber'" > , > Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > ALARA!!!!!! > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > MinRat i.R. > Habicherg. 31/7 > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > AUSTRIA > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] > Gesendet: Samstag, 24. Februar 2007 22:29 > An: Franz Sch?nhofer; 'stewart farber'; > radsafe at radlab.nl > Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > ALARA is alive and well in USA, to an extreme > extent. > > In this case, the extra dose, estimated to be 10 > microrem is almost > non-radiation dose. The privacy aspects is an issue > and has to be evaluated > against the risks trying to be mitigated. The > article and Stu,s 0comments > are about the dose received, the doctor's comments, > and had nothing to do > about the image resolution considerations. > > I would be surprised that anyone considers this 10 > microrem dose to be an > issue. > > Sandy Perle > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 1 16:18:48 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 14:18:48 -0800 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <431142.26825.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB58E@gdses.corp.gds.com> John, Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in anything except taxes and death! However, where technology can offer enhanced security and peace of mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as appropriate for the circumstances at hand. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John Jacobus Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 2:00 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Of course, there is no indication that this equipment will prevent terrorist from blowing up aircraft. They read the news and are very adaptable. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > ALARA means what it says, as low as reasonably > achievable. This does not mean zero dose. Evaluation > of the task and supportt for or against the dose > determines if the dose to be received is warranted. > I suspect that a majority of travelers worldwide > would accept this small dose for the peace and mind > of knowing that the risk of a catastrophy has been > reduced, even if the risk has not been entirely > eliminated. > > Sandy Perle > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: Franz Sch?nhofer > Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:38:27 > To:,"'stewart farber'" > , > Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > ALARA!!!!!! > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > MinRat i.R. > Habicherg. 31/7 > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > AUSTRIA > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] > Gesendet: Samstag, 24. Februar 2007 22:29 > An: Franz Sch?nhofer; 'stewart farber'; > radsafe at radlab.nl > Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > ALARA is alive and well in USA, to an extreme > extent. > > In this case, the extra dose, estimated to be 10 > microrem is almost > non-radiation dose. The privacy aspects is an issue > and has to be evaluated > against the risks trying to be mitigated. The > article and Stu,s 0comments > are about the dose received, the doctor's comments, > and had nothing to do > about the image resolution considerations. > > I would be surprised that anyone considers this 10 > microrem dose to be an > issue. > > Sandy Perle > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jsalsman at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 17:34:30 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 15:34:30 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] ethics in research question In-Reply-To: <45E61A82.8000500@peoplepc.com> References: <45E61A82.8000500@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: On 2/28/07, Maury Siskel wrote: > ... the attribution to Dr. Kang is correct. But that remains far from a > complete view of the situation. Follows several quotes regarding other > studies (preponderance of evidence?) of this subject. The point is that the earlier studies all had lower rates, meaning that the rates are increasing. I think they are increasing way too rapidly. Here's a graph that explains it: http://www.bovik.org/du/gwbd.jpg Complaining about this problem and trying to get it fixed helps our troops, their families, and our ability to recruit. Tungsten might cause cancer, but it doesn't damage gonocytes, which are, after all, our future. Sincerely, James Salsman From sjd at swcp.com Thu Mar 1 20:39:38 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 19:39:38 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] ethics in research question In-Reply-To: References: <45E61A82.8000500@peoplepc.com> <45E61A82.8000500@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070301193627.009f94f0@mail.swcp.com> March 1, 2007 This graph proves nothing. It's so silly and so ill-supported it should be an embarrassment.. According to Salsman and bovik.org, the graph is based on the 2001 Kang et al. paper in the Annals of Epidemiology about pregnancy outcomes among Gulf War vets. I have already discussed that paper on RADSAFE and it does nothing to substantiate any of Salsman's claims. The graph is also based on the Gulf War Review question and answer article that I discussed yesterday on RADSAFE. You will recall that the Q&A article had a footnote that mentioned some research by Kang wherein he claimed to have found that the rate of birth defects in children of Gulf War deployed male veterans was 2.2 times the rate of birth defects in non-deployed GW vets. According to this 2003 Gulf War Review Q&A, Kang's research was undergoing peer review. In plain English, this graph doesn't explain anything --- at least not about the incidence rate of birth defects. It might explain something about James Salsman's scholarship, however I will refrain from making any comments on *that*. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 03:34 PM 3/1/07 -0800, James Salsman wrote: >On 2/28/07, Maury Siskel wrote: > >>... the attribution to Dr. Kang is correct. But that remains far from a >>complete view of the situation. Follows several quotes regarding other >>studies (preponderance of evidence?) of this subject. > >The point is that the earlier studies all had lower rates, meaning that >the rates are increasing. I think they are increasing way too rapidly. > >Here's a graph that explains it: > http://www.bovik.org/du/gwbd.jpg > >Complaining about this problem and trying to get it fixed helps our >troops, their families, and our ability to recruit. Tungsten might cause >cancer, but it doesn't damage gonocytes, which are, after all, our future. > >Sincerely, >James Salsman From Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk Fri Mar 2 05:54:51 2007 From: Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk (Dawson, Fred Mr) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:54:51 -0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] 'Safety stand-down' ordered for US Navy's submarine force Message-ID: Safety stand-down ordered for Navy's submarine force http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=41741&archive=true http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=117428&ran=182798&tref=p o The Navy on Thursday ordered a safety review of its entire submarine force worldwide because of recent accidents at sea involving Norfolk-based subs. Fred Dawson From jsalsman at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 07:30:55 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 05:30:55 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] ethics in research question Message-ID: Steve, Thank you for your comments. What does your scholarship tell you the 95% confidence interval is? If you look at the way the Araneta and earlier papers developed over time, it closely follows the data being reported out of Basra: http://www.bovik.org/du/basrah.gif -- earlier message -- From: Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com This graph proves nothing. It's so silly and so ill-supported it should be an embarrassment.. According to Salsman and bovik.org, the graph is based on the 2001 Kang et al. paper in the Annals of Epidemiology about pregnancy outcomes among Gulf War vets. I have already discussed that paper on RADSAFE and it does nothing to substantiate any of Salsman's claims. The graph is also based on the Gulf War Review question and answer article that I discussed yesterday on RADSAFE. You will recall that the Q&A article had a footnote that mentioned some research by Kang wherein he claimed to have found that the rate of birth defects in children of Gulf War deployed male veterans was 2.2 times the rate of birth defects in non-deployed GW vets. According to this 2003 Gulf War Review Q&A, Kang's research was undergoing peer review. In plain English, this graph doesn't explain anything --- at least not about the incidence rate of birth defects. It might explain something about James Salsman's scholarship, however I will refrain from making any comments on *that*. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 03:34 PM 3/1/07 -0800, James Salsman wrote: >On 2/28/07, Maury Siskel wrote: > >>... the attribution to Dr. Kang is correct. But that remains far from a >>complete view of the situation. Follows several quotes regarding other >>studies (preponderance of evidence?) of this subject. > >The point is that the earlier studies all had lower rates, meaning that >the rates are increasing. I think they are increasing way too rapidly. > >Here's a graph that explains it: > http://www.bovik.org/du/gwbd.jpg > >Complaining about this problem and trying to get it fixed helps our >troops, their families, and our ability to recruit. Tungsten might cause >cancer, but it doesn't damage gonocytes, which are, after all, our future. > >Sincerely, >James Salsman From sjd at swcp.com Fri Mar 2 08:39:23 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:39:23 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] ethics in research question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070302072646.009fab70@mail.swcp.com> March 2 The bovik/basra link below is to another of bovik/Salsman's worthless graphs. This one has its "y' axis labeled with increments, however there is no explanation of what the increments are. To reiterate, the graph is worthless. My "scholarship" tells me the 95% confidence interval is irrelevant and immaterial. The point under consideration is whether or not Kang's claim of a 2.2 greater risk of birth defects has any merit. Has that claim passed peer review, and has it been published? If it has, let's have a citation to the journal wherein it was published. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 05:30 AM 3/2/07 -0800, James Salsman wrote: >Steve, > >Thank you for your comments. > >What does your scholarship tell you the 95% confidence interval is? > >If you look at the way the Araneta and earlier papers developed over >time, it closely follows the data being reported out of Basra: > http://www.bovik.org/du/basrah.gif > >-- earlier message -- >From: Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com > > This graph proves nothing. It's so silly and so ill-supported it >should be an embarrassment.. [edit] From jsalsman at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 10:26:01 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 08:26:01 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] revised 1991 war birth defects graph Message-ID: I have revised http://www.bovik.org/du/gwbd.jpg From sjd at swcp.com Fri Mar 2 11:51:11 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:51:11 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] revised 1991 war birth defects graph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070302104000.009f9850@mail.swcp.com> March 2 The revised graph (link below) is still worthless. The revised "y" axis is not labeled, just as the original "y" axis was not labeled. The original graph had a citation to Kang's 2001 paper in Annals of Epidemiology, but this graph has no citation to any literature. We don't know the source of the data points, nor do we know who developed them. Each of the graphs invokes a "Gompertz extrapolation," however neither of them explains who or what Gompertz is. Has Kang published his 2.2 increased risk factor claims? If so give us a citation. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 08:26 AM 3/2/07 -0800, James Salsman wrote: >I have revised http://www.bovik.org/du/gwbd.jpg From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 12:23:23 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB58E@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <729055.67128.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb that cannot get around this type of technology? In the 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. Is there a lesson here? Low technology works well. We are amoured with machines and technology, without looking at what works best. Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are forcing us to spend countless funds on equipment to give us the sense of security. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > anything except taxes and > death! However, where technology can offer enhanced > security and peace of > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as > appropriate for the > circumstances at hand. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf > Of John Jacobus > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 2:00 PM > To: radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > Of course, there is no indication that this > equipment > will prevent terrorist from blowing up aircraft. > They > read the news and are very adaptable. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > ALARA means what it says, as low as reasonably > > achievable. This does not mean zero dose. > Evaluation > > of the task and supportt for or against the dose > > determines if the dose to be received is > warranted. > > I suspect that a majority of travelers worldwide > > would accept this small dose for the peace and > mind > > of knowing that the risk of a catastrophy has been > > reduced, even if the risk has not been entirely > > eliminated. > > > > Sandy Perle > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Franz Sch?nhofer > > > Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:38:27 > > To:,"'stewart farber'" > > , > > Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan > > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > ALARA!!!!!! > > > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > > MinRat i.R. > > Habicherg. 31/7 > > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > > AUSTRIA > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] > > Gesendet: Samstag, 24. Februar 2007 22:29 > > An: Franz Sch?nhofer; 'stewart farber'; > > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan > > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > ALARA is alive and well in USA, to an extreme > > extent. > > > > In this case, the extra dose, estimated to be 10 > > microrem is almost > > non-radiation dose. The privacy aspects is an > issue > > and has to be evaluated > > against the risks trying to be mitigated. The > > article and Stu,s 0comments > > are about the dose received, the doctor's > comments, > > and had nothing to do > > about the image resolution considerations. > > > > I would be surprised that anyone considers this 10 > > microrem dose to be an > > issue. > > > > Sandy Perle > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe > mailing > > list > > > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to > have > > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can > be > > found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > > and other settings visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or > omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the > world?s population; that we > cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot > right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and > therefore there cannot be > an American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ________ > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at > www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it > now. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the > RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 12:39:43 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 18:39:43 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <729055.67128.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB58E@gdses.corp.gds.com> <729055.67128.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <460003351-1172860773-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1095729478-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> John, So, what is your bottom line point? Don't increase security, no profiling, no electronic checks, no hands-on checking, no body scan. What are you really trying to say? If your point is don't do anything, a very dangerous prospect. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb that cannot get around this type of technology? In the 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. Is there a lesson here? Low technology works well. We are amoured with machines and technology, without looking at what works best. Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are forcing us to spend countless funds on equipment to give us the sense of security. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > anything except taxes and > death! However, where technology can offer enhanced > security and peace of > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as > appropriate for the > circumstances at hand. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf > Of John Jacobus > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 2:00 PM > To: radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > Of course, there is no indication that this > equipment > will prevent terrorist from blowing up aircraft. > They > read the news and are very adaptable. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > ALARA means what it says, as low as reasonably > > achievable. This does not mean zero dose. > Evaluation > > of the task and supportt for or against the dose > > determines if the dose to be received is > warranted. > > I suspect that a majority of travelers worldwide > > would accept this small dose for the peace and > mind > > of knowing that the risk of a catastrophy has been > > reduced, even if the risk has not been entirely > > eliminated. > > > > Sandy Perle > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Franz Sch?nhofer > > > Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:38:27 > > To:,"'stewart farber'" > > , > > Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan > > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > ALARA!!!!!! > > > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > > MinRat i.R. > > Habicherg. 31/7 > > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > > AUSTRIA > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] > > Gesendet: Samstag, 24. Februar 2007 22:29 > > An: Franz Sch?nhofer; 'stewart farber'; > > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan > > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > ALARA is alive and well in USA, to an extreme > > extent. > > > > In this case, the extra dose, estimated to be 10 > > microrem is almost > > non-radiation dose. The privacy aspects is an > issue > > and has to be evaluated > > against the risks trying to be mitigated. The > > article and Stu,s 0comments > > are about the dose received, the doctor's > comments, > > and had nothing to do > > about the image resolution considerations. > > > > I would be surprised that anyone considers this 10 > > microrem dose to be an > > issue. > > > > Sandy Perle > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe > mailing > > list > > > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to > have > > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can > be > > found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > > and other settings visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or > omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the > world?s population; that we > cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot > right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and > therefore there cannot be > an American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ________ > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at > www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it > now. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the > RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 12:51:05 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:51:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] 'Safety stand-down' ordered for US Navy's submarine force In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <640095.57102.qm@web54305.mail.yahoo.com> Only two of the latest. http://www.prop1.org/2000/accident/1989/890712a1.htm That is why they need windows. --- "Dawson, Fred Mr" wrote: > Safety stand-down ordered for Navy's submarine force > > http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=41741&archive=true > > http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=117428&ran=182798&tref=p > o > > The Navy on Thursday ordered a safety review of its > entire submarine > force worldwide because of recent accidents at sea > involving > Norfolk-based subs. > > > Fred Dawson > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 13:05:12 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:05:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <460003351-1172860773-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1095729478-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <244284.68970.qm@web54309.mail.yahoo.com> I am saying that this is probably a waste of money. Obviously, you did not understand my comments on the use of sky marshalls. Would any of the programs have prevented Timothy McVeigh? Do you think the terrorist of Sept. 11 would have found away around these systems? Terrorism is not new, all of these devices are flashy and high-tech, but they do not address the root causes of why radical people commit terrorist acts. This is where our resources should be put, not sending armies all over the world, and tell the public this new gadget will make us safer. We have low paid people operating high-tech equipment. I certainly do not feel any safer. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > So, what is your bottom line point? Don't increase > security, no profiling, no electronic checks, no > hands-on checking, no body scan. What are you really > trying to say? If your point is don't do anything, a > very dangerous prospect. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb that > cannot get around this type of technology? In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well. We > are amoured with machines and technology, without > looking at what works best. > > Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the > Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are forcing > us > to spend countless funds on equipment to give us the > sense of security. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > > anything except taxes and > > death! However, where technology can offer > enhanced > > security and peace of > > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as > > appropriate for the > > circumstances at hand. > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 13:25:34 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:25:34 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <244284.68970.qm@web54309.mail.yahoo.com> References: <460003351-1172860773-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1095729478-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <244284.68970.qm@web54309.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <185542802-1172863514-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-708495020-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> So your position is to throw up your hands and say that nothing can improve security. I have repaetedly said there is never a 100 percent conclusion. That doesn't mean to give up. If you don't believe the body scan is better than current ridiculous detection, then we'll just disagree. I fly a lot, an awful lot, and I would like every bag to be inspected and every person scanned. I want to reduce the human error. My life and others are within their control. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:05:12 To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags I am saying that this is probably a waste of money. Obviously, you did not understand my comments on the use of sky marshalls. Would any of the programs have prevented Timothy McVeigh? Do you think the terrorist of Sept. 11 would have found away around these systems? Terrorism is not new, all of these devices are flashy and high-tech, but they do not address the root causes of why radical people commit terrorist acts. This is where our resources should be put, not sending armies all over the world, and tell the public this new gadget will make us safer. We have low paid people operating high-tech equipment. I certainly do not feel any safer. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > So, what is your bottom line point? Don't increase > security, no profiling, no electronic checks, no > hands-on checking, no body scan. What are you really > trying to say? If your point is don't do anything, a > very dangerous prospect. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb that > cannot get around this type of technology? In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well. We > are amoured with machines and technology, without > looking at what works best. > > Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the > Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are forcing > us > to spend countless funds on equipment to give us the > sense of security. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > > anything except taxes and > > death! However, where technology can offer > enhanced > > security and peace of > > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as > > appropriate for the > > circumstances at hand. > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 13:47:20 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:47:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <185542802-1172863514-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-708495020-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <334394.16846.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> There may not be any 100% security, but there are wasys to waste 100% of your money and resources. I am saying that this system will probably do little to make us safer. I would feel safer with sky marshalls. I guess you keep missing that part of my message. Of course, if you are in the business of selling the government equipment, the more the better. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > So your position is to throw up your hands and say > that nothing can improve security. I have repaetedly > said there is never a 100 percent conclusion. That > doesn't mean to give up. If you don't believe the > body scan is better than current ridiculous > detection, then we'll just disagree. I fly a lot, an > awful lot, and I would like every bag to be > inspected and every person scanned. I want to reduce > the human error. My life and others are within their > control. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:05:12 > To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > I am saying that this is probably a waste of money. > Obviously, you did not understand my comments on the > use of sky marshalls. Would any of the programs > have > prevented Timothy McVeigh? Do you think the > terrorist > of Sept. 11 would have found away around these > systems? > > Terrorism is not new, all of these devices are > flashy > and high-tech, but they do not address the root > causes > of why radical people commit terrorist acts. This > is > where our resources should be put, not sending > armies > all over the world, and tell the public this new > gadget will make us safer. > > We have low paid people operating high-tech > equipment. > I certainly do not feel any safer. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > So, what is your bottom line point? Don't increase > > security, no profiling, no electronic checks, no > > hands-on checking, no body scan. What are you > really > > trying to say? If your point is don't do anything, > a > > very dangerous prospect. > > > > Sandy > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus > > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 > > To:Sandy Perle , > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb > that > > cannot get around this type of technology? In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > > > Is > > there a lesson here? Low technology works well. > We > > are amoured with machines and technology, without > > looking at what works best. > > > > Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the > > Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are > forcing > > us > > to spend countless funds on equipment to give us > the > > sense of security. > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > > > anything except taxes and > > > death! However, where technology can offer > > enhanced > > > security and peace of > > > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as > > > appropriate for the > > > circumstances at hand. > > > > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 14:10:18 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 20:10:18 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <334394.16846.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <185542802-1172863514-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-708495020-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <334394.16846.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1441446283-1172866199-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1240715368-@bxe029-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Sky Marshalls in addition to technology. Sky Marshalls are downstream, and we need upstream detection. A Sky Marshall may be viable if a weapon is brandished, but would be uiseless with detonation of a passive device. We need to correlate all opportunities. For protection. If you talk with people in the UK, Tokyo or Madrid, as well as other areas, I think you'll hear a cry for more technology in security used, and not simply rely on human security (which often is minimal in results. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:47:20 To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags There may not be any 100% security, but there are wasys to waste 100% of your money and resources. I am saying that this system will probably do little to make us safer. I would feel safer with sky marshalls. I guess you keep missing that part of my message. Of course, if you are in the business of selling the government equipment, the more the better. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > So your position is to throw up your hands and say > that nothing can improve security. I have repaetedly > said there is never a 100 percent conclusion. That > doesn't mean to give up. If you don't believe the > body scan is better than current ridiculous > detection, then we'll just disagree. I fly a lot, an > awful lot, and I would like every bag to be > inspected and every person scanned. I want to reduce > the human error. My life and others are within their > control. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:05:12 > To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > I am saying that this is probably a waste of money. > Obviously, you did not understand my comments on the > use of sky marshalls. Would any of the programs > have > prevented Timothy McVeigh? Do you think the > terrorist > of Sept. 11 would have found away around these > systems? > > Terrorism is not new, all of these devices are > flashy > and high-tech, but they do not address the root > causes > of why radical people commit terrorist acts. This > is > where our resources should be put, not sending > armies > all over the world, and tell the public this new > gadget will make us safer. > > We have low paid people operating high-tech > equipment. > I certainly do not feel any safer. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > So, what is your bottom line point? Don't increase > > security, no profiling, no electronic checks, no > > hands-on checking, no body scan. What are you > really > > trying to say? If your point is don't do anything, > a > > very dangerous prospect. > > > > Sandy > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus > > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 > > To:Sandy Perle , > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb > that > > cannot get around this type of technology? In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > > > Is > > there a lesson here? Low technology works well. > We > > are amoured with machines and technology, without > > looking at what works best. > > > > Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the > > Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are > forcing > > us > > to spend countless funds on equipment to give us > the > > sense of security. > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > > > anything except taxes and > > > death! However, where technology can offer > > enhanced > > > security and peace of > > > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted as > > > appropriate for the > > > circumstances at hand. > > > > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 14:47:24 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:47:24 -0800 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <729055.67128.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59C@gdses.corp.gds.com> John, One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and x-ray checking of carry-on. Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare apples and oranges. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In the 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. Is there a lesson here? Low technology works well From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 15:44:10 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:44:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <1441446283-1172866199-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1240715368-@bxe029-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <33218.41339.qm@web54313.mail.yahoo.com> The problem is that this system will not detect contraband if the person wants to smuggle a weapon aboard a plane. How do you think people smuggle things into jails? They put them up their rectum. Backscatter x-rays don't penetrate that deep. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > Sky Marshalls in addition to technology. Sky > Marshalls are downstream, and we need upstream > detection. A Sky Marshall may be viable if a weapon > is brandished, but would be uiseless with detonation > of a passive device. We need to correlate all > opportunities. For protection. If you talk with > people in the UK, Tokyo or Madrid, as well as other > areas, I think you'll hear a cry for more technology > in security used, and not simply rely on human > security (which often is minimal in results. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:47:20 > To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > There may not be any 100% security, but there are > wasys to waste 100% of your money and resources. > > I am saying that this system will probably do little > to make us safer. I would feel safer with sky > marshalls. I guess you keep missing that part of my > message. > > Of course, if you are in the business of selling the > government equipment, the more the better. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > So your position is to throw up your hands and say > > that nothing can improve security. I have > repaetedly > > said there is never a 100 percent conclusion. That > > doesn't mean to give up. If you don't believe the > > body scan is better than current ridiculous > > detection, then we'll just disagree. I fly a lot, > an > > awful lot, and I would like every bag to be > > inspected and every person scanned. I want to > reduce > > the human error. My life and others are within > their > > control. > > > > Sandy > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus > > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:05:12 > > To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > I am saying that this is probably a waste of > money. > > Obviously, you did not understand my comments on > the > > use of sky marshalls. Would any of the programs > > have > > prevented Timothy McVeigh? Do you think the > > terrorist > > of Sept. 11 would have found away around these > > systems? > > > > Terrorism is not new, all of these devices are > > flashy > > and high-tech, but they do not address the root > > causes > > of why radical people commit terrorist acts. This > > is > > where our resources should be put, not sending > > armies > > all over the world, and tell the public this new > > gadget will make us safer. > > > > We have low paid people operating high-tech > > equipment. > > I certainly do not feel any safer. > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > > > So, what is your bottom line point? Don't > increase > > > security, no profiling, no electronic checks, no > > > hands-on checking, no body scan. What are you > > really > > > trying to say? If your point is don't do > anything, > > a > > > very dangerous prospect. > > > > > > Sandy > > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: John Jacobus > > > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 10:23:23 > > > To:Sandy Perle , > > radsafe at radlab.nl > > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > > X-Rays > > > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > > > What enhanced security? Terrorist are so dumb > > that > > > cannot get around this type of technology? In > the > > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > > > > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSecurity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > > > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to > Cuba. > > > > > Is > > > there a lesson here? Low technology works well. > > > We > > > are amoured with machines and technology, > without > > > looking at what works best. > > > > > > Yes, the terrorist have won. As we outspent the > > > Soviet Union and won the Cold War, they are > > forcing > > > us > > > to spend countless funds on equipment to give us > > the > > > sense of security. > > > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > > > Agreed. There is never a 100% probability in > > > > anything except taxes and > > > > death! However, where technology can offer > > > enhanced > > > > security and peace of > > > > mind, then it should be evaluated and adapted > as > > > > appropriate for the > > > > circumstances at hand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are > only > > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we > cannot > > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or > reverse > > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > > American solution to every world problem.? > > -- John F. Kennedy > > > > -- John > > John Jacobus, MS > > Certified Health Physicist > > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > === message truncated === +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. From LNMolino at aol.com Fri Mar 2 15:46:36 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:46:36 EST Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Message-ID: In a message dated 3/2/2007 1:14:18 P.M. Central Standard Time, crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: We have low paid people operating high-tech equipment. I certainly do not feel any safer. As a frequent flyer and a "terrorism" consultant (I work only for the "good guys") I tend to agree with that statement. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 15:56:56 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59C@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <758532.48226.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a plane > with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It wasn't until much > later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves > .. and that reason was > also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred > to die along with the > thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't > compare apples and > oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 16:18:08 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 22:18:08 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <758532.48226.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59C@gdses.corp.gds.com> <758532.48226.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a plane > with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It wasn't until much > later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves > .. and that reason was > also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred > to die along with the > thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't > compare apples and > oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From stanford at stanforddosimetry.com Fri Mar 2 16:48:57 2007 From: stanford at stanforddosimetry.com (Neill Stanford) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 14:48:57 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59C@gdses.corp.gds.com><758532.48226.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: None of the new technologies make me feel safer. Every new one inspires me to think of how easily motivated people could get around them. We remove our laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one checks the piles of electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, battery packs, chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz bottles of liquid or gel but what is to stop a group from combining them once on board? These systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, clever bad guys know how to get around them. What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the detailed personal interview at the gate that many European airports have implemented for flights to the USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. Well-trained interviewers asking questions designed to catch you off guard, and observing reactions. Much more effective than the parroted "were you in possession of the bags since..." Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From sjd at swcp.com Fri Mar 2 16:55:32 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:55:32 -0700 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454 -@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <758532.48226.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59C@gdses.corp.gds.com> <758532.48226.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070302155247.009ed920@mail.swcp.com> March 2 They were humans. They were *morally depraved* humans. (Yes, I used the "m" word.) Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 10:18 PM 3/2/07 +0000, Sandy Perle wrote: >John, > >Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are >in my opinion.. > >Sandy > >Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 17:20:56 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:20:56 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59E@gdses.corp.gds.com> Hi Neill, The interviews are a good practice. However I look at each technique as complimentary to another technique. Recall that Richard Reed walked through the interview process, and if he had tried to use a lighter instead of a match, that AA flight would have been blown to pieces over the Atlantic. We need multiple layers of security, recognizing that we will never stop a dedicated well-trained group from finally succeeding in implementing their reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because something won't stop 100% of the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential use. The body scanners will detect most weapons, but not all. The interview may catch many, but not all. We need better technology, but nothing will be full-proof. While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour flight, I can assure you that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and better than I did 5 years ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from now. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to develop and implement new technologies to approach 100%, even though we will never get there. There will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Neill Stanford [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags None of the new technologies make me feel safer. Every new one inspires me to think of how easily motivated people could get around them. We remove our laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one checks the piles of electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, battery packs, chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz bottles of liquid or gel but what is to stop a group from combining them once on board? These systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, clever bad guys know how to get around them. What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the detailed personal interview at the gate that many European airports have implemented for flights to the USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. Well-trained interviewers asking questions designed to catch you off guard, and observing reactions. Much more effective than the parroted "were you in possession of the bags since..." Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 17:24:17 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:24:17 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The 2007 Dosimetry & Records Symposium -- co sponsored by Global Dosimetry Solutions ; Landauer and Panasonic -- In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070302155247.009ed920@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59F@gdses.corp.gds.com> The 2007 Dosimetry & Records Symposium -- co sponsored by Global Dosimetry Solutions ; Landauer and Panasonic -- cordially invites you to the 26th International Dosimetry & Records Symposium AGENDA and other details: http://www.dosimetryresources.com from there, click on the tab for the 2007 Symposium As in 2006, this will be a joint symposium for Dosimetry and Records - with common plus parallel track sessions Topics planned are "Nuclear Renaissance" ; Nuclear Cycle ; Homeland Security ; Emergency Response ; Regulatory changes and updates ;Litigation ; Environmental ; Confidentiality ; Dose Reconstruction ; EPD ; Establishing a Program for Accreditation etc Special sessions are also planned for " Hands On" equipment training and panel discussions on open issues REGISTRATION: Attendees $350 Guests ( over12) $175 On Line Registration --link below https://www.SignUp4.net/Public/ap.aspx?EID=ANNU23E DATES: Arrival on Sunday, June 3, 2007 Sessions from Monday, June 4 (8:00am) to Friday, June 8, 2007 (5:00pm) Depart on Saturday, June 9 at your leisure VENUE: Portland Marriott at Sable Oaks 200 Sable Oaks Drive South Portland Maine 04106 USA (207) 871 8000 (800) 752 8810 http://marriott.com/property/propertypage/PWMAP HOTEL ROOM RESERVATION Please contact the Portland Marriott at Sable Oaks directly at (800) 752 8810 and identify yourself as an attendee of the "Dosimetry & Records Symposium June 3 -9; 2007 " to avail yourself of the special negotiated rates: Single or Double Guestroom @ $ 149 plus 7% tax Gov't Rate @ $ 82 plus 7% tax (Applicable only to active U.S. Gov't/DOD/DOE employees - Valid ID required) AIRPORT: Portland ; Maine (PWM) http://www.portlandjetport.org/ Other nearby aiports are Boston Logan (BOS) approx 2 hours by car and Manchester (MHT) approx 1 1/2 hours by car. GROUND TRANSPORTATION: Hotel provides complimentary transportation from and to Portland , Maine (PWM) airport Looking forward to your participation Thank you, 2007 Dosimetry & Records Symposium Task Force Inid Deneau Landauer Chairperson Sandy Perle Global Dosimetry Solutions Co-Chairperson Bruce Dicey Consultant Dante Wells Savannah River Company Deborah O'Connor TXU/Comanche Peak Isabelle McCabe Radiation Safety and Control Services Pam Heckman Energy Solutions Richard Cadogan Argonne National Labs Ash Chabra Panasonic From stanford at stanforddosimetry.com Fri Mar 2 17:52:17 2007 From: stanford at stanforddosimetry.com (Neill Stanford) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:52:17 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59E@gdses.corp.gds.com> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59E@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: Hey Sandy, But Richard Reed was 1) flying on AA, 2) flying in 2001. I am talking about the interview process used for decades by El Al and recently (I noticed it in Amsterdam last Nov) for EU to USA flights. I'm all for effective technology, but shudder when I think of the cost benefit analysis of the measures put in place over the past 5 years. [But then, I also think the instructions and equipment dealing with a "ditch over water" are a big waste of time.] My point was that in this country we rely almost solely on machines. Machines operated by under-paid and under-trained people. While other countries put more emphasis on better-trained better-paid individuals. Very subjectively, I feel a lot safer going through that process than I ever have flying from a US airport. Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:21 PM To: 'Neill Stanford'; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Hi Neill, The interviews are a good practice. However I look at each technique as complimentary to another technique. Recall that Richard Reed walked through the interview process, and if he had tried to use a lighter instead of a match, that AA flight would have been blown to pieces over the Atlantic. We need multiple layers of security, recognizing that we will never stop a dedicated well-trained group from finally succeeding in implementing their reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because something won't stop 100% of the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential use. The body scanners will detect most weapons, but not all. The interview may catch many, but not all. We need better technology, but nothing will be full-proof. While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour flight, I can assure you that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and better than I did 5 years ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from now. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to develop and implement new technologies to approach 100%, even though we will never get there. There will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Neill Stanford [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags None of the new technologies make me feel safer. Every new one inspires me to think of how easily motivated people could get around them. We remove our laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one checks the piles of electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, battery packs, chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz bottles of liquid or gel but what is to stop a group from combining them once on board? These systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, clever bad guys know how to get around them. What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the detailed personal interview at the gate that many European airports have implemented for flights to the USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. Well-trained interviewers asking questions designed to catch you off guard, and observing reactions. Much more effective than the parroted "were you in possession of the bags since..." Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Fri Mar 2 17:54:37 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 00:54:37 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak In-Reply-To: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> Since I got tired of the subject I have not reacted to any message on that subject since a long time, but what I yesterday read in the discussion between John and Mr. Perle motivated me to plan to react tomorrow, because what is distributed by Mr. Perle is just hairraising. But his two last messages are so unacceptable that I write this comment now. All attempts to intimitate me and ridicule me are in vain, because such a character like Mr. Perle cannot insult me. John, you know that I always have esteemed your contributions I understand (I do not understand questions of epidemiology and similar ones). Now I have to congratulate you, because until now you are obviously the only US-citizen on RADSAFE to speak out clearly against this paranoid "safety thinking", which seems to be only used to intimitade people, subject them to humiliation (been shown naked on screens) and to undermine the human rights and of course to raise the profit of quite a few companies claiming that they manufacture instruments and devices for "safety". I know more than well, that these are not only my thoughts, but these are the thoughts of many million US-citizens and influential groups. Practically all of my US-friends and collegues are among them. So much now, but the main reason that I have not waited until tomorrow, is, that Mr. Perle used the expression "sub-human" before and even insisted on these words in his latest contribution. This is clearly Nazi-Speak - in German "Untermenschen", a label given by Nazi-Germany to non-arian people like all Slavs, including Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Czech, Slovenians, Serbs, Montenegrinians etc. etc., the Romas (gypsies), Arabs and especially Jews. (It is intersting that the Romas are genuine Arians.) I do not expect that Mr. Perle has ever been to Auschwitz or Majdanek or any of the other Nazi-extinction camps, where "sub-humans" were killed daily by the thousands or rather tens of thousands like insects by using hydrogen cyanide. I have been there and therefore I am more than allergic for such words. Now I ask whether RADSAFE is the right place to use Nazi-speak. Another US citizen has been banned many years ago from the list, because he was calling an international organisation for "Gestapo". It seems that this expression throws a light on Mr. Perles character. More light I'll shed on him and his queer opinions tomorrow (like "he" wants to be safe on flights and therefore everybody else has to undergo humiliating procedures, not raising at all safety and security). It is half past midnight and again I will go to sleep. The most recent attempt to insult me by Mr. Perle on 15 Feb. is ridiculous: I will not take an aspirin, because I take it everyday in the morning according to my doctors advice. I do not take something called "Luvox". I do not even know what it is, but this only confirms that Mr. Perle is of the opinion that everybody in this world should know US-brandnames and in a broader view succumb to any US interest and request. Since I might concede that Mr. Perle might be aware, that an Austrian does not know "Luvox" I take the alternative conclusion that he was writing this for the US-market of his company. Again, John, my deepest respect. Mr. Perle, please never adress me personally again. Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Sandy Perle Gesendet: Freitag, 02. M?rz 2007 23:18 An: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a plane > with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It wasn't until much > later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves > .. and that reason was > also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred > to die along with the > thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't > compare apples and > oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 18:05:23 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:05:23 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak In-Reply-To: <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A1@gdses.corp.gds.com> Franz, For someone who has absolutely nothing to say, you say it so often. And you equate me to a Nazi. If I recall, Hitler was from Austria. Where are you from, Franz!!!! From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 18:07:47 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:07:47 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] if you want to talk about Nazism... In-Reply-To: <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A2@gdses.corp.gds.com> Franz, so, you've visited Auschwitz. I'm impressed. You've visited this death camp. I've lost relatives there. So keep your opinions to yourself! From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 18:13:08 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:13:08 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A3@gdses.corp.gds.com> Neill, I agree we need better trained and higher paid TSA personnel. Reminds me of my days I the power plant where the lowest paid person on the site was the one carrying the semi-automatic weapons! I still contend that we need a balanced security plan, using well trained personnel, high degree of instrument sophistication, and behavioral profiling to determine which traveler requires additional scrutiny. And for Franz, who continues to insinuate that my comments are facilitating company profits, far from it. My company is not in the business of marketing these instruments, period. Not that Franz deserves a comment. He certainly doesn't. I just enjoy wait9ing because I know that after any of my postings, within a day or so, there will be Franz. He's like a magnet. He just doesn't fall off! Sandy -----Original Message----- From: Neill Stanford [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:52 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Hey Sandy, But Richard Reed was 1) flying on AA, 2) flying in 2001. I am talking about the interview process used for decades by El Al and recently (I noticed it in Amsterdam last Nov) for EU to USA flights. I'm all for effective technology, but shudder when I think of the cost benefit analysis of the measures put in place over the past 5 years. [But then, I also think the instructions and equipment dealing with a "ditch over water" are a big waste of time.] My point was that in this country we rely almost solely on machines. Machines operated by under-paid and under-trained people. While other countries put more emphasis on better-trained better-paid individuals. Very subjectively, I feel a lot safer going through that process than I ever have flying from a US airport. Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:21 PM To: 'Neill Stanford'; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Hi Neill, The interviews are a good practice. However I look at each technique as complimentary to another technique. Recall that Richard Reed walked through the interview process, and if he had tried to use a lighter instead of a match, that AA flight would have been blown to pieces over the Atlantic. We need multiple layers of security, recognizing that we will never stop a dedicated well-trained group from finally succeeding in implementing their reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because something won't stop 100% of the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential use. The body scanners will detect most weapons, but not all. The interview may catch many, but not all. We need better technology, but nothing will be full-proof. While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour flight, I can assure you that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and better than I did 5 years ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from now. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to develop and implement new technologies to approach 100%, even though we will never get there. There will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Neill Stanford [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags None of the new technologies make me feel safer. Every new one inspires me to think of how easily motivated people could get around them. We remove our laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one checks the piles of electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, battery packs, chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz bottles of liquid or gel but what is to stop a group from combining them once on board? These systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, clever bad guys know how to get around them. What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the detailed personal interview at the gate that many European airports have implemented for flights to the USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. Well-trained interviewers asking questions designed to catch you off guard, and observing reactions. Much more effective than the parroted "were you in possession of the bags since..." Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Fri Mar 2 18:22:22 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 01:22:22 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] AW: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A1@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <000001c75d2a$0c1c9d80$49197254@pc1> Shut up! Or do you more and more want to show your ignorance? I am not responsible for Mr. Hitler having been born in Braunau. My family has been in big troubles during the second world war. I have not equated you to a Nazi, but I categorized your words as Nazi-speak and so it is. Two other US citizen have already critizised your wording of "sub-humans" - flame them if you want to get rid of your aggressions. You know more than well, that I am from Austria - or did you forget our appointment in Vienna? This has nothing to do with any US-aversion - this is directed to just a single persons conduct. Refrain from sending any more intended insults to me, even more to send them to RADSAFE, because I will from now on not answer any single one. Did you understand, Mr. Perle? And don't call me "Franz" anymore, in our European culture first names are a privilege - sometime it seems that this is the case in certain parts of the USA as well. With all disrespect Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 03. M?rz 2007 01:05 An: 'Franz Sch?nhofer'; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Betreff: RE: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Franz, For someone who has absolutely nothing to say, you say it so often. And you equate me to a Nazi. If I recall, Hitler was from Austria. Where are you from, Franz!!!! From sjd at swcp.com Fri Mar 2 18:27:16 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 17:27:16 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A1@gdses.corp.gds.co m> References: <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070302172605.009f7cb0@mail.swcp.com> March 2 Knock it off, you two. This is getting us nowhere. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 04:05 PM 3/2/07 -0800, Sandy Perle wrote: >Franz, > >For someone who has absolutely nothing to say, you say it so often. And you >equate me to a Nazi. If I recall, Hitler was from Austria. Where are you >from, Franz!!!! From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 18:27:44 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:27:44 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak In-Reply-To: <000001c75d2a$0c1c9d80$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A5@gdses.corp.gds.com> Franz, You continue to say that you don't want to hear from me, nor will you address me. Now is a good time to start. Don't pick and chose your needling comments, your agenda of personal attacks, and you won't hear from me. I'll continue to post to Radsafe, and if you don't like what I write, learn to use a filter and it will be a very simple function for my posts to disappear. If you can't figure that out, then just hit the delete button. I am now finished with you as well. There are others on Radsafe who have more important opinions to have a dialogue with. You are not amongst them. -----Original Message----- From: Franz Sch?nhofer [mailto:franz.schoenhofer at chello.at] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 4:22 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Subject: AW: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Shut up! Or do you more and more want to show your ignorance? I am not responsible for Mr. Hitler having been born in Braunau. My family has been in big troubles during the second world war. I have not equated you to a Nazi, but I categorized your words as Nazi-speak and so it is. Two other US citizen have already critizised your wording of "sub-humans" - flame them if you want to get rid of your aggressions. You know more than well, that I am from Austria - or did you forget our appointment in Vienna? This has nothing to do with any US-aversion - this is directed to just a single persons conduct. Refrain from sending any more intended insults to me, even more to send them to RADSAFE, because I will from now on not answer any single one. Did you understand, Mr. Perle? And don't call me "Franz" anymore, in our European culture first names are a privilege - sometime it seems that this is the case in certain parts of the USA as well. With all disrespect Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 03. M?rz 2007 01:05 An: 'Franz Sch?nhofer'; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Betreff: RE: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Franz, For someone who has absolutely nothing to say, you say it so often. And you equate me to a Nazi. If I recall, Hitler was from Austria. Where are you from, Franz!!!! From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 18:46:15 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:46:15 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Poland signs on to Baltic nuclear plant Message-ID: <45E854D7.25095.244D7BA7@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: Poland signs on to Baltic nuclear plant Thai Energy Council OKs Setting Up Nuclear Pwr Plant Committe Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Czech Nuclear Plant Leak Deemed Harmless Nuclear Lab Develops Powerful Dust Rag Hundreds hear proposal for nuclear power plant CFE orders plant modification S.C. county fights for nuclear landfill Britain gets nuclear waste warning from energy chiefs Wayne Co. Residents Can Get KI Pills Earthlife Anti-Nuclear In Energy Debate Monroeville-based Westinghouse to begin work on 4 nuclear plants Salazar Wants Compensate Ex-Rocky Flats Workers ----------------------------------------------- Poland signs on to Baltic nuclear plant Poland and Lithuania have signed an agreement to build a new nuclear power station in Lithuania. It will replace the ageing Ignalina power station in eastern Lithuania. Ignalina is the last Chernobyl-style reactor still in use in the European Union. Lithuania will have a 34 percent stake in the project. Its three partner countries - Estonia, Latvia and Poland - will hold 22 percent each. the replacement facility is not due to be commissioned before 2015, leaving a six- year gap between the closure of the old plant and the inauguration of the new. --------------- Thai Energy Council OKs Setting Up Nuclear Pwr Plant Committe BANGKOK -(Dow Jones)- Thailand's National Energy Policy Council Friday approved the formation of a committee to study the possibility of setting up a nuclear power plant, Energy Minister Piyasvasti Amranand said. The committee, to be formed soon, would take about seven years to study the issue and decide whether Thailand should have a nuclear power plant or not, Piyasvasti told reporters after the meeting of the National Energy Policy Council. He didn't give details on the composition of the committee. Thailand will need to consider nuclear energy as an alternative to fuel power generation in the future due to the limited supply and rising prices of conventional fuel, such as natural gas and oil, he said. Piyasvasti said the average construction and fuel cost of a nuclear power plant is THB1.6 a kilowatt-hour, while that for natural gas- fired and coal-fired power plants is THB2/kWh. Among the options under the draft power development plan for 2007- 2021 is building nuclear power plants with a combined capacity of 5,000 megawatts to supply electricity starting 2020 and 2021. Other new power plants would use coal and natural gas as fuel. The National Energy Policy Council also approved in principle the draft energy business act, a new law governing electricity and natural gas businesses and which will enhance transparency in the energy sector, said Piyasvasti. Under the new law, a group of seven regulators will be formed to supervize the energy sector and ensure fairness to consumers. The Council of State will review the law before it is forwarded to the Cabinet for approval and the National Legislative Assembly for final approval. ------------- Nuclear plant planning moves ahead You may not have heard too much lately about that planned nuclear power plant in southern Levy County S but that doesn't mean plans have stopped. Two representatives from Progress Energy spoke to the Williston Rotary Club on Tuesday and brought the group up to date on work being undertaken to possibly get the power plant built. "We haven't made a final decision to build," said Gail T. Simpson, manager of Public Policy and Constituency Relations for the company. "We haven't purchased the land. There are still more tests to be done." Rosemary Fagler, Community Relations Manager for the region, described the needs of consumers and how growth has affected the company. "New homes are so much larger now," she said, noting that more space required more energy to heat and cool, there were more appliances today than in earlier years and computers were in most homes, many running on a 24/7 basis. Simpson pointed out that within 50 years the "population is expected to double in the state of Florida." The speakers commented that Progress Energy has to start thinking about that now, even though its needs might be 10 or 20 years away. Simpson answered the question of why Levy was chosen. "There are limited locations in Florida. A lot of hot water is required, and there are very few places that using that much water would not have an impact." The Levy County site would draw water from the Gulf. "We also needed a couple thousand acres in a rural area. "The Levy County location is a preferred site for a lot of technical and other reasons." The company still has a lot of processes and permitting to go through, including the state, the Public Service Commission, the Department of Environmental Protection and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. "We'll file an application with the NRC by the end of next year," Simpson said. "They require all sorts of information," including weather data and soil borings. Fagler spoke about the economic benefits, including property taxes, 1,000 to 2,000 construction jobs, 500 permanent jobs and increased local investment. She also said the plant would be environmentally friendly with no greenhouse gas emissions. When asked by the Pioneer whether they would ask for tax breaks, which many industries do as they move into an area, they said things like that hadn't been considered as yet. "We hope to have a good relationship with the county," Simpson added. ----------------- Czech Nuclear Plant Leak Deemed Harmless PRAGUE, Czech Republic - More than 500 gallons of radioactive water leaked at a nuclear power plant, but did not contaminate the environment, an official said Thursday. The water leaked early Tuesday at the Temelin plant's first unit, which is currently shut down for fuel replacement, plant spokesman Milan Nebesar said. "The water went to a special tank through a special ... system and none of it leaked to the environment," Nebesar said. He said that an open valve caused the leak. The plant's second unit was running at full capacity. Nebesar said the plant's management has informed Czech and Austrian authorities about the leak. Austrian officials expressed surprise and anger over the delay in getting word of the mishap, which occurred while Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer was on an official visit to Prague. Environment Minister Josef Proell lodged a formal protest with his Czech counterparts Thursday, insisting the Czech government explain "why it took more than 50 hours before Austria was informed" of the accident, said his spokesman, Daniel Kapp. The Czech Republic and Austria have been at odds for years over the plant, located only 35 miles from the Austrian border. Austrian environmentalists have demanded the plant closed because of security concerns. Czech authorities insist it is safe. Construction of the plant's two 1,000-megawatt units, based on Russian designs, started in the 1980s. The reactors were later upgraded with U.S. technology, but have remained controversial because of frequent malfunctions. -------------- Nuclear Lab Develops Powerful Dust Rag (AP) OAK RIDGE, Tenn. This is one cleaning that could pass anybody's white-glove test. A high-tech dust rag developed by a research chemist at a nuclear weapons plant can pick up potentially deadly beryllium particles that are 20 times smaller than what can be seen with the naked eye. Its inventor, Ron Simandl, says it could be used to mop up industrial accidents or wipe down semiconductor "clean rooms." And look out Swiffer dusters: The "Negligible-Residue Non-tacky Tack Cloth" could be bound for the consumer market, albeit with a catchier name. Simandl, who is used to working in a secretive environment at the Y- 12 nuclear weapons plant, isn't saying much about the ingredients in his special cloth-coating formula. The patent-pending treatment, which could work on any rag, has been tested on cheesecloth for six months with great success, he said. Metal, ceramic, plastic, fibers, radiological contaminants all have been picked up. "There is a good, but not necessarily obvious reason why they work," he said. "My cloths were thoroughly tested before I submitted the patent application." Marilyn Giles, technology transfer director for Y-12's managing contractor, is shopping the treatment around. "We will need a technical champion before we can find a business champion because it is kind of hard to comprehend that it can actually do what he says it can do," Giles said. "But it would not be a very expensive process to put in place for a company who already does this." The Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology, an industry group that is involved in setting clean room standards, sounded intrigued. "The product is interesting, but there are a number of questions ... that many professionals would have," institute spokeswoman Heather Dvorak said in an e-mail. Beryllium is a light but strong metal that is used in bicycle frames and golf clubs, X-ray machines and nuclear weapons. Exposure can lead to chronic respiratory problems and cancer. The Y-12 plant, which has been making nuclear bomb parts since World War II, doesn't take beryllium lightly. The government has paid out millions to compensate sick nuclear plant workers, including about 140 past and present Y-12 workers identified with beryllium sensitivity, an early stage of the illness. Commercial cleaners and wipes failed to pick up all the beryllium and left a residue. "I have been thinking about this for 30 years," Simandl said. "Other people have to, and it has just evaded us. It is just a real difficult problem. You are trying to clean up invisible stuff, but it's at levels that industrial hygiene people say is harmful." The organic solvent-based cloth treatment that Simandl and partner Scott Hollenbeck came up with yields a dry coating that doesn't feel tacky to the touch "yet retains very high tackiness on the microscopic level" and leaves no trace. "The physics of tackiness is very complex," Simandl said. The dust rag may work like a dirt magnet, but "magnetism is not involved," he adds. "That is just allegory or poetic license." Simandl also tried out the cloths at home. Using his simple instructions "Use dry, rub hard," Simandl dry-buffed the alloy wheels on his car. "The stubborn brake and road dirt came right off and left the wheels bright and showroom-shiny," he said. "You could even polish your titanium golf clubs with them." ---------------- Hundreds hear proposal for nuclear power plant ROSWELL -- Roswell's mayor says that relying on foreign oil is dangerous and that the nation needs nuclear power. Sam LaGrone spoke Tuesday night to several hundred people attending a U.S. Department of Energy hearing on the possibility of a nuclear waste reprocessing center near Roswell. The owners of a hazardous waste site between Roswell and Tatum, Gandy- Marley Inc., in partnership with EnergySolutions, are receiving $1.1 million to study the site for a spent fuel recycling center. A site near Hobbs, proposed by Eddy Lea Energy Alliance, was awarded $1.5 million for a similar study. That money was part of more than $10 million awarded by the Department of Energy for detailed site studies on 11 areas nationwide for so-called integrated spent fuel recycling facilities, which the department said would allow the nation to recycle spent nuclear fuel safely. Studies are due by May 30. The recycling centers are part of President Bush's proposed Global Nuclear Energy Partnership, which seeks to reduce U.S. dependence on imported oil. ------------- CFE orders plant modification Alstom and consortium partner Iberdrola have signed a contract with Mexico?s state-owned utility Comision Federal de Electricidad (CFE) to modernise the Laguna Verde nuclear power plant. The total order value is estimated at approximately EUR470m, of which Alstom?s share is around EUR150m. Alstom?s scope of supply is for the full retrofit of two steam turbines, each with one high pressure and two low pressure cylinders, and the supply of new generators. Consortium leader Iberinco, the engineering and construction business of the Iberdrola Group, will supply the balance of plant. According to Alstom, the project will increase the current installed capacity of the plant by 20%, from 1,350 to 1,634 MW. The work will begin immediately and is scheduled for completion by 2010. Laguna Verde is Mexico?s only nuclear power plant, and the refurbishment work is part of CFE?s strategy of optimising all its energy resources and maintaining a diversified and independent energy supply in the country. ---------------- S.C. county fights for nuclear landfill SNELLING, S.C. - In this rural county beset by high unemployment, the soon-to-arrive day when the local nuclear-waste landfill closes its doors to nearly all debris is no cause for celebration. Chem-Nuclear, a disposal site for low-level radioactive waste from hospitals and power plants around the nation, offers some of the county's few high-paying jobs, provides roughly 10 percent of its overall budget and pumps $1 million a year into local schools. It has also handed out college scholarships and bought equipment for police and paramedics. The landfill has long been under attack from environmentalists, and a 2000 state law says that starting next year, it can accept waste only from South Carolina and two other states. But now, as that date draws near, lawmakers are considering extending the deadline to 2023. Locals say that changing the law is vital and that outsiders just don't understand how important the landfill is. "It's been in Barnwell so long, it's part of who we are," said Berley Lindler, a jewelry shop owner in the nearby town of Barnwell. "It's good for the economy. They're our friends." About 23,300 people live in Barnwell County, about 55 miles from Columbia in the southwestern part of South Carolina, near the Georgia state line. The county has no rail lines or interstate-highway access, and unemployment stands at 10 percent. In the past few years, hundreds of jobs in the county have vanished with the closing of a gas-grill maker and a window manufacturer. The biggest employer, the Dixie-Narco vending machine company, has cut about 1,400 jobs over the past several years and was bought out last year, said Keith Sloan, chairman of the County Council. "We've really taken some hits," he said. Nuclear power plant debris and radioactive hospital clothing have been buried here since 1971 atop aquifers that run to the Savannah River. In its heyday from 1980 to the early 1990s, Chem-Nuclear employed hundreds of people. In 1980, it collected 2.4 million cubic feet of the solid, radioactive waste, which is stored in steel containers that are put in concrete vaults and then buried in long trenches. Bought last year by Utah-based EnergySolutions, it is now one of three landfills in the nation for low-level radioactive waste. Utah and Washington have the others. The landfill was last cited by state environmental regulators in 1983, for improperly unloading a shipment. In 1999, tritium, a radioactive isotope of hydrogen, was found on the grounds of a church next to the landfill. The levels were below those accepted by regulators, but the company dug up and replaced the contaminated soil. A year later, then-Gov. Jim Hodges led a campaign to wean South Carolina off radioactive waste. From about 120 miles away, residents of wealthier Beaufort and Hilton Head, which get drinking water from the Savannah River, added to the outcry. State lawmakers passed a measure to slowly choke off the amount of waste that could be sent to the landfill. This year, the cap is 40,000 cubic feet of waste, or enough to cover a baseball infield to a depth of 5 feet. Plant manager Jim Lathan said restricting the waste to South Carolina, Connecticut and New Jersey means the landfill will run a deficit and will probably have to lay off some of the 51 workers who are left since the state law was passed. Environmentalists say none of the changes should be a surprise. Ann Timberlake, executive director of the Conservation Voters of South Carolina, said the county should have used the $2 million it has received yearly since 2000 to prepare itself. "Everyone knew the volume would go down," she said. "We've established a fair roadmap, and we need to stick to it." State officials test the soil, air, surface and ground water four times a year, inspect shipments daily and show up unannounced for semiannual inspections. While tritium has been found in groundwater, it has been far below regulatory limits, said Michael Moore, the state's environmental manager for infectious and radioactive waste management. But environmentalists still worry about the trucks carrying waste to Chem-Nuclear that pass through other counties, and the underground water that makes its way into the river. They worry, too, about the state's image. "One county should not decide for South Carolina whether we should be the nation's dump," Timberlake said. Locals point out that the site has paid $430 million in fees to the state Education Department since 1995, provides jobs that pay an average of $49,500 a year, and has been a good corporate citizen in other respects. Plaques thanking Chem-Nuclear for paying for various projects pepper the walls of buildings and parks. "I don't disagree we knew this was coming," Sloan said. "But you know, one day you're going to die, too. How are you going to prepare for it when you don't have alternatives available?" Without Chem-Nuclear, residents, officials and educators fear rising property taxes, teacher layoffs and other troubles. "We'd be devastated without it," said Barnwell schools Superintendent Carolyne Williams. "We would have leaky roofs. We wouldn't have proper air conditioning." --------------- Britain gets nuclear waste warning from energy chiefs Britain must not go ahead with a new generation of nuclear power stations until it has a "clear and robust" plan in place for dealing with the twin problems of decommissioning and waste treatment, the world's leading energy body warned yesterday. The International Energy Agency also said that any new nuclear programme must be funded entirely from the private sector, without any government subsidy or market intervention. In its latest review of UK energy policy, the agency said that it supported the building of new nuclear stations as an important part of the country's future energy mix. However, it added that the Government's current proposals for dealing with issues such as planning and construction, long-term waste management and guidance for potential financial backers were "too vague to provide the required certainty". Ministers have pledged to address this in the forthcoming energy White Paper. The document had been due to be published in the next fortnight but has been delayed until May after the environmental campaign group Greenpeace succeeded in a High Court action claiming that the Government had failed to consult properly last year on the twin issues of financing a new nuclear programme and waste management. Introducing the IEA report, Claude Mandil, the agency's executive director, said: "The spent-fuel issue is the most critical one for nuclear. It will not develop if there is not a credible and satisfactory answer to the management of spent fuel and one which is convincing for the public." At present, most low-level waste is disposed of at the state-owned Drigg depository in Cumbria while intermediate-level waste is stored on site. But the report says that Britain must move rapidly to select and implement a comprehensive national policy for radioactive waste disposal. To this end, it is "essential" that the Government puts in place schemes to ensure that adequate funds are available to cover decommissioning and waste disposal. These funds should come from either the industry itself or electricity consumers. Mr Mandil said the agency was against any form of subsidy to enable new nuclear stations to be built because it increased uncertainty. But he said he was in favour of the idea of nuclear plant developers agreeing long-term supply contracts to ensure that their costs were covered, as was now happening with the construction of new capacity in Finland. Lord Truscott, the UK energy minister, said there would be no subsidy, levy, nuclear obligation or market intervention to help launch a new nuclear programme. "Our position is unchanged. New nuclear will have to stand on its own feet. It will be for private business to make its own decisions on investing and for industry to decide whether it is viable. It will operate within the market as it stands." Despite the minister's insistence that there will be no government intervention, many energy experts believe there will need to be some form of aid or guarantee to kick-start a new nuclear programme. Some observers even believe there will have to be some form of indemnity given to station builders to underwrite their costs should a future government reverse nuclear policy. Elsewhere, the agency largely gave the UK a glowing report, saying its policies for supporting investment in new plant and energy efficiency were working well. However, it sounded a note of caution about the UK's growing dependence on gas, saying options should be kept open for the use of other fuels. -------------- Wayne Co. Residents Can Get KI Pills (Wayne Co., N.Y.) - People who live near the Ginna Nuclear Power Plant can get potassium iodide (KI) starting this week. The current pills are set to expire this month. The medication was given out to be used in the event of an accident or terror attack that might lead to a radiation leak. The medication can be picked up in several town offices in Wayne County. --------------- Earthlife Anti-Nuclear In Energy Debate IT is laudable that Namibians engage in public debates on nuclear energy, triggered off by the statement recently made by the Permanent Secretary of Mines and Energy, Mr Joseph Iitha, that nuclear energy is considered as one of the many options to generate power. It is of course right to make a decision after all options have been investigated. I for my part am quite sure that Government will come up with a responsible choice and this will not be generation of nuclear power in Namibia. The article "Namibia opts for nuclear power" featured in The Namibian on 11th January 2007 challenged Earthlife Namibia to start an e-mail discussion encouraging Namibians to express their view on the issue. We received very interesting comments which I want to share with the interested reader. This letter is a compilation of the debate. For easier reading I separate the comments with bullets, whereby the order is purely by chance. However, some comments we received don't feature here because of repetition. Especially renewable energy and the unsolved problem of nuclear waste disposal was mentioned many times. * Having uranium ore is hardly an argument in favour of nuclear energy production. It would probably damage Namibia's "pristine" environmental image too which would have to be incorporated into any cost benefit analysis. * From a perspective of human's lack of commitment into renewable energy, the only alternative to fossil fuels will be nuclear. Considering greed etc. I do not foresee humans living on re-energy before all (including uranium) the earth has is depleted. Would it not be in everybody's interest to do as much research into nuclear energy and safety as possible? Just imagine that we run out of fossil fuels and then all the industrial nations switch over to the old unsafe nuclear power stations. * The raw material uranium is mined in Namibia by foreign mining companies having contracts of delivery with foreign customers. In general the calculated lifetime of local uranium mines is 15 years. It takes long to get the infrastructure for uranium enrichment in place, build the nuclear power plant and train the right people. By the time all this has been achieved Namibia needs to import uranium oxide for a high price. * What would be worse: nuclear power generation or Epupa? * Namibia needs an energy strategic plan into which role players can feed their input. It seems as if the decision makers are handling things a bit ad hoc at the moment. * The uranium boom is temporary. When all the new production starts up globally, there will be an excess in the market, prices will start dropping and the marginal mines will start closing again. Namibia has a chance of becoming an African leader in wave, wind and solar, which it can never do with nuclear, because even if it imports a reactor it will become dependent on foreign technicians, loans and companies like Eskom - which means that the problem complained of, dependency on SA, will not necessary go away. * It's scary but I'm not surprised given what is happening in South Africa and the assumption about expanded markets for uranium. We have to keep reminding the government that Namibia has abundant sun and wind!...and keep educating the public and publishing the figures on costs and benefits of renewable energy and the dangers of nuclear energy. * Nuclear power requires such high technological capacity and skills that it is extremely doubtful if Namibia would ever be in a position to mobilize the manpower to operate and maintain a nuclear power plant. I am of the opinion that the decision by Government is indeed a long term vision, but the decision at least creates the opportunity for Namibia to start developing its assets towards achieving such a vision. The decision is therefore a step in the right direction, provided that the thrust to create human capacity is directed properly. * The bottom line for all these options is the economy of scale and the cost of the energy. It is a pity the article does not state what power is costing the Namibian consumer at present in order to compare costs. Any power supplied at 35c/kWh plus is very expensive and not really affordable. The Namibian demand is small and the units cost is therefore understandable very high. To produce and sell more units, the unit cost can be reduced, but Namibia would need a large anchor consumer like the RSA that requires thousands of MW (presently 40 000 MW in the RSA) and not a measly 500 MW like Namibia. Economics and capacity would therefore dictate any future outcomes of whatever is contemplated. * All forms of power generation and distribution create environmental problems to a greater or lesser extent. Many of the forms of power generation that seem to cause the lowest impact are unreliable, inefficient, expensive and new - the technologies have not yet been fully tested under production conditions. One of the worst forms of power generation under present global conditions is the suite of generators that contribute to climate change - undoubtedly one of the most serious environmental issues that this planet has ever faced. I don't believe that it is in the interests of the environment for environmental organizations to adopt positions of being either pro or anti nuclear energy. I believe that the situation will differ from country to country, depending on the options that different countries have. Within this context, I further believe that a rational assessment of the pros and cons of all the available options should be carried out in Namibia, in an open and transparent way, taking into account all the important variables, both socio-economic and environmental. * Great - despite the refuse it is still one of the environmentally cleanest sources of high-output power, with no contribution to global warming, which affects especially our rangelands and thus farmers and thousands of poor rural people as well! Look at the broader picture and its benefits! * Technological expertise is the most important issue in nuclear energy production. Namibia could deal with the technology of renewable energy, a good example is Gobabeb. But technology for a nuclear power plant is a different story. * The Wildlife Society of Namibia (WLSN) supports sustainable development and the sustainable utilisation of resources, including the sustainable generation and use of energy. The WLSN can not support either uranium mining or nuclear power generation, because the environmental damages and inherent risks involved (some of which are extremely long-lasting) outweigh the short-term benefits of power supply. Most especially the created nuclear waste poses an extremely high risk which remains undiminished for periods of time far beyond human planning capabilities. The only other major use of uranium, for the creation of weapons, can not be supported in any way either. The WLSN therefore does not support any utilisation of uranium. I do not want to comment on the above, it speaks for itself. Only one small remark: please dear reader, while making up your own opinion regarding nuclear power generation in Namibia (YES or NO), weigh up the short-term benefits against the long-term consequences and think about the many future generations burdened with the nuclear waste. Bertchen Kohrs Earthlife Namibia --------------- Monroeville-based Westinghouse to begin work on 4 nuclear plants Westinghouse Electric Co. said it signed an accord in Beijing on Thursday that begins procurement on the $5.3 billion nuclear power deal announced with the Chinese government in December. Monroeville-based Westinghouse and its consortium partner, The Shaw Group, of Baton Rouge, signed a framework agreement with China's State Nuclear Power Technology Co. for four of Westinghouse's new AP1000 reactors. That design can bring power to more than 880,000 homes -- important to an energy-hungry nation of 1.3 billion people that hopes to build more than two dozen nuclear power plants by 2020. Westinghouse spokesman Vaughn Gilbert said the accord provides funding for Westinghouse and Shaw to begin procuring equipment for the reactors. Further contracts on the plants will be finalized later this year, with construction to begin in 2009 and the first plant to begin operating in 2013. "This is a significant milestone because it's actually funding for the project," Gilbert said. He declined to put a dollar figure on the amount conveyed to the consortium yesterday. Two of Westinghouse's plants will be built in Sanmen, in Zhejiang province on China's eastern coast near Shanghai, as announced in December. The two others are to be built in Haiyang, Shandong province, near the Yellow Sea, in a refiguring made last month to accommodate France's Areva SA. In February, Beijing unexpectedly awarded two plant locations previously considered for Westinghouse -- in Yangjiang, in southeastern Guangdong province near Hong Kong -- to Areva in a $5 billion, two-reactor deal with that company. Many observers saw it as a way to preserve China's 20-year nuclear-power relationship with France after bestowing the long-awaited contract upon Westinghouse two months earlier. Gilbert said about 50 percent of the work for the project will come from the Westinghouse-Shaw consortium's U.S. facilities, with a significant portion of that coming from Western Pennsylvania. The design and project management will come from Westinghouse's Monroeville facilities, as will the assembly of the nuclear power plants' instrumentation and control equipment, he said. Fuel rods will be manufactured at the firm's location in Blairsville, Indiana County. Shaw will provide engineering, procurement and commissioning, as well as project and information management on the Chinese project. A renewed interest -- domestically and abroad -- in nuclear energy as a cleaner burning alternative to coal-fueled power plants has prompted brisk hiring by Westinghouse. In the past two years it has hired 1,700 people companywide, and plans to add between 1,000 to 2,000 nuclear engineers in the Pittsburgh area over the next decade. About 3,000 of the firm's more than 9,000 workers are based in the region, including about 1,800 in Monroeville and 700 at the Waltz Mill maintenance facility in Madison, Westmoreland County. Still to be determined is where many of the local staffers will work. Westinghouse is continuing to weigh whether to expand its headquarters along Northern Pike in Monroeville, or to build a new facility on more than 300 acres along Route 228 in Cranberry, Butler County, which would, over the next few years, house all of its Monroeville operations. A decision is expected by March 15. ---------------- Salazar Wants Compensate Ex-Rocky Flats Workers (AP) DENVER Sen. Ken Salazar, D-Colo., reintroduced a bill Thursday that would give benefits to Rocky Flats employees who became ill after working at the former nuclear weapons plant. About 10,000 people who worked at the former nuclear weapons plant between Denver and Boulder want to be classified under a program that makes workers at a Department of Energy site immediately and automatically eligible for medical coverage and compensation. Workers wouldn't have to file individual health claims. For the past two years, the employees have been seeking a designation that would make them eligible for benefits if they suffer from a cancer linked to exposure to radiation. Salazar said that the employees are victims of inadequate or missing records and bureaucratic red tape. "Across five decades, the patriotic men and women of Rocky Flats served their country producing plutonium, one of the most dangerous substances in the world, and crafting it into the triggers for America's nuclear arsenal," Salazar said. Rep. Mark Udall, D-Colo., has introduced a similar bill in the House Rep. Ed Perlmutter, D-Colo., is a co-sponsor. In 2002, Congress approved the Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation Program Act to expedite financial and medical benefits for the country's Cold War-era veterans. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health recommended against the petition filed by Rocky Flats workers. The agency said it's feasible to determine in individual cases whether an employee's exposure to radioactive materials can be tied to an illness. The United Steelworkers of America, the union that represented Rocky Flats workers, has said the records can't adequately establish those connections. Rocky Flats made plutonium triggers for nuclear warheads until 1992, when it was shut down because of safety concerns. The $7 billion cleanup of the 6,420-acre site was declared complete last fall. Energy Department officials have said the site is ready for conversion to a national wildlife refuge, expected by 2008. --------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Fri Mar 2 18:49:51 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 01:49:51 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c75d2d$dfb6d040$49197254@pc1> Neil, You are obviously a US citizen, I wonder whether you will receive any such hateful and ridiculous reply from Mr. Perle which I did....... I think we had in Europe rather good safety procedures, which could of course not prevent single events like the Lockerbie case. BTW I flew the same day from the USA to London and after having checked in to my hotel and according to the habit acquired after two months USA I turned on the TV and immediately got the news about this catastrophe. Well, I did not feel, that I had probably escaped a similar fate and of course I continued my flight next day to Vienna. I mentioned already that I flew a few days after September 11 to Brussels and a week later back. I flew together with my younger son a few weeks later to Honolulu and again a few weeks later back to Vienna. I think that somebody who is all the time using probabilities to contract cancer from radionuclide exposure should apply the principle of probability in his personal life. I do it, but obviously many others don't do it at RADSAFE. Sorry to say, I do not regard my own life, nor of others as being worth to spend billions of USD for questionable safety features. The latest story about the liquids attempted to produce explosives on the airplane as published in Great Britain has since led to some chaos at European airports, of which I was many times affected last year. Women had to discard their very expensive perfumes, children had to discard their Coke, tooth paste, hand moisturing cremes etc. etc. had to be discarded. After the control, big signs advertised, that all parfumes, beverages, tooth pastes, cremes etc. could be paid at the shops in this area...... I was joking, when I was forced to take off my shoes and my belt at the check in, that the next step will be that we have to take off our clothes - I knew then already about the US attempts. O.k., now we have it. On a cost/benefit basis, these measures are not justified. I wait for an analysis of this, but I suppose that nobody in the USA will dare to do it, because this would so obviously contradict the political intentions of the government. I wish you happy flights in the future! Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Neill Stanford Gesendet: Samstag, 03. M?rz 2007 00:52 An: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Hey Sandy, But Richard Reed was 1) flying on AA, 2) flying in 2001. I am talking about the interview process used for decades by El Al and recently (I noticed it in Amsterdam last Nov) for EU to USA flights. I'm all for effective technology, but shudder when I think of the cost benefit analysis of the measures put in place over the past 5 years. [But then, I also think the instructions and equipment dealing with a "ditch over water" are a big waste of time.] My point was that in this country we rely almost solely on machines. Machines operated by under-paid and under-trained people. While other countries put more emphasis on better-trained better-paid individuals. Very subjectively, I feel a lot safer going through that process than I ever have flying from a US airport. Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:21 PM To: 'Neill Stanford'; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Hi Neill, The interviews are a good practice. However I look at each technique as complimentary to another technique. Recall that Richard Reed walked through the interview process, and if he had tried to use a lighter instead of a match, that AA flight would have been blown to pieces over the Atlantic. We need multiple layers of security, recognizing that we will never stop a dedicated well-trained group from finally succeeding in implementing their reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because something won't stop 100% of the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential use. The body scanners will detect most weapons, but not all. The interview may catch many, but not all. We need better technology, but nothing will be full-proof. While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour flight, I can assure you that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and better than I did 5 years ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from now. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to develop and implement new technologies to approach 100%, even though we will never get there. There will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Neill Stanford [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags None of the new technologies make me feel safer. Every new one inspires me to think of how easily motivated people could get around them. We remove our laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one checks the piles of electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, battery packs, chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz bottles of liquid or gel but what is to stop a group from combining them once on board? These systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, clever bad guys know how to get around them. What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the detailed personal interview at the gate that many European airports have implemented for flights to the USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. Well-trained interviewers asking questions designed to catch you off guard, and observing reactions. Much more effective than the parroted "were you in possession of the bags since..." Neill Stanford, CHP Stanford Dosimetry, LLC ------------------------------------------ (360) 527 2627 (360) 715 1982 (fax) (360) 770 7778 (cell) www.stanforddosimetry.com ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 19:09:47 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 17:09:47 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] an Apology to Franz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5AB@gdses.corp.gds.com> I apologize to Franz for any comments that implied that he either was, is, or sympathized with the Nazis and their philosophy. The comment was uncalled for. Sandy Perle From syd.levine at mindspring.com Fri Mar 2 19:29:44 2007 From: syd.levine at mindspring.com (Syd H. Levine) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 20:29:44 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] if you want to talk about Nazism... References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A2@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <000801c75d33$6edbc3c0$0100a8c0@House> I also lost relatives at in the death camps. I find Franz's invocation offensive and disingenuous. Further, I am sick and tired of the politically correct trashing of the US he constantly engages in. I humorously reminded Franz that he would be speaking German but for US involvement in WWII, but that little joke was lost on him. But the truth of the matter is that Europeans owe the US everything, and ought to own up to it. Syd H. Levine AnaLog Services, Inc. Phone: (270) 276-5671 Telefax: (270) 276-5588 E-mail: analog at logwell.com Web URL: www.logwell.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Perle" To: "'Franz Sch?nhofer'" ; "'John Jacobus'" ; ; "'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)'" Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] if you want to talk about Nazism... > Franz, so, you've visited Auschwitz. I'm impressed. You've visited this > death camp. I've lost relatives there. So keep your opinions to yourself! > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From LNMolino at aol.com Fri Mar 2 19:34:33 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 20:34:33 EST Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Message-ID: In a message dated 3/2/2007 7:22:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, franz.schoenhofer at chello.at writes: The latest story about the liquids attempted to produce explosives on the airplane as published in Great Britain has since led to some chaos at European airports, of which I was many times affected last year. Women had to discard their very expensive perfumes, children had to discard their Coke, tooth paste, hand moisturing cremes etc. etc. had to be discarded. After the control, big signs advertised, that all parfumes, beverages, tooth pastes, cremes etc. could be paid at the shops in this area...... Mr. Schoenhofer (as you seemingly would prefer to be address I hope I spelled it right and that you are acceptable to this salutation?) In respect to the above comment I'd like to know YOUR qualifications in the area of binary (or more) chemical explosives? Thank you. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From Efforrer at aol.com Fri Mar 2 19:41:49 2007 From: Efforrer at aol.com (Efforrer at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 20:41:49 EST Subject: [ RadSafe ] Anyone know who this is? Message-ID: I got a for you only not the list email regarding my views on privacy rights during certain situations. It was not signed and the writer equated my views with those Hitler and his SS would have espoused. While I agree that everyone is entitled their opinion it bothers me when people do it from the shadows. the email was _tdc at xrayted.com_ (mailto:tdc at xrayted.com) . Just curious who it was. Gene Forrer


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Fri Mar 2 19:57:42 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 02:57:42 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] if you want to talk about Nazism... In-Reply-To: <000801c75d33$6edbc3c0$0100a8c0@House> Message-ID: <000c01c75d37$59b4e400$49197254@pc1> Syd, you are late to respond. If you find my "invocation offensive and disingenuous" I can only answer that I find recently more than enough "offensive and disingenuous" messages on RADSAFE, which seem to be "justified" by political propaganda. What you call "politically correct trashing of the USA" seems to be a process, which is backed not only by more than half of this worlds governments, but even according to US standards by probably more than half of the US population. Your reference to your "humorously reminding me that I would speak German, but for US involvement in WWII" I answered as far as I remember that I speak German as rougly estimated 95% of Austrians do. This was not a little joke but an offence - ignored by me. If you did not understand this answer, blame it on your lack of knowledge. Especially regarding Auschwitz it is well known, that the Allies knew about this annihilation camp ("death camp" is in my opinion a "politically correct" belittlement). No, no more discussion on that. Get back to Radiation Protection and RADSAFE topics - if you want to discuss on the Nazi history, send mails to my private mail. Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Syd H. Levine [mailto:syd.levine at mindspring.com] Gesendet: Samstag, 03. M?rz 2007 02:30 An: sandyfl at cox.net; 'Franz Sch?nhofer'; 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] if you want to talk about Nazism... I also lost relatives at in the death camps. I find Franz's invocation offensive and disingenuous. Further, I am sick and tired of the politically correct trashing of the US he constantly engages in. I humorously reminded Franz that he would be speaking German but for US involvement in WWII, but that little joke was lost on him. But the truth of the matter is that Europeans owe the US everything, and ought to own up to it. Syd H. Levine AnaLog Services, Inc. Phone: (270) 276-5671 Telefax: (270) 276-5588 E-mail: analog at logwell.com Web URL: www.logwell.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Perle" To: "'Franz Sch?nhofer'" ; "'John Jacobus'" ; ; "'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)'" Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] if you want to talk about Nazism... > Franz, so, you've visited Auschwitz. I'm impressed. You've visited this > death camp. I've lost relatives there. So keep your opinions to yourself! > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 2 21:32:52 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:32:52 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Canada sees possible nuclear renaissance Message-ID: <45E87BE4.7967.24E606EC@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: Canada sees possible nuclear renaissance Radiation monitors will screen goods nationwide Milky Way black hole may be colossal 'particle accelerator' Veto nuclear waste bill Feds ill-prepared to deal with nuke terror, report says Los Alamos lab holds debate on nuclear fuel recycling Nevada panel warned about effort to license nuclear dump Westinghouse takes next step in China nuclear plant deal ---------------------------------------------------- Canada sees possible nuclear renaissance OTTAWA (Reuters) - Concern over global warming has breathed new life into Canada's nuclear industry, which is eyeing the possibility of its first new plants in the country in a quarter century, industry officials said on Thursday. "The climate change driver is so compelling a case that the nuclear file becomes a critical part of the solution," Duncan Hawthorne, chairman of the Canadian Nuclear Association and chief executive of Bruce Power, told Reuters. Though atomic energy always raises the question of what to do with nuclear waste, its attraction in terms of the climate change debate is that it emits none of the greenhouse gases that are blamed for global warming. Officials said Canada's "nuclear renaissance" had created a challenge for companies and regulators to hire enough qualified workers, particularly as the workforce ages. Bruce Power as well as Ontario Power Generation, which is owned by the Ontario government, have begun the applications process or new power plants on separate sites in Ontario. The head of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, Linda Keen, told a nuclear conference on Thursday that her regulatory body had accepted Bruce Power's project description in just five months, at the end of January, and was now looking at a way of speeding up its environmental assessment. Keen said she would recommend to federal Environment Minister John Baird that the project go straight to a public panel rather than first going through an eight-month process to determine if an environmental assessment panel was necessary. She said the Ontario Power Generation project description, for a new site at Darlington, about 70 km (45 miles) east of Toronto, should also be dealt with expeditiously. In addition, the federal government and the private firm Energy Alberta are promoting the idea of using nuclear energy to develop Alberta's massive oil sands reserves. "If you're going to tackle climate change, you've got to do everything," Hawthorne said. "That includes energy efficiency and conservation, but it also includes a pretty significant investment in nuclear." He said that as Canada's government moves to limit greenhouse gas emissions, industries which want to continue to grow will have a natural incentive to turn to nuclear energy. In the case of Alberta's oil sands, he envisaged industry using a combination of carbon sequestration, whereby carbon dioxide is buried, and nuclear energy. Bruce Power operates six nuclear reactors on Lake Huron, about 250 km (155 miles) northwest of Toronto, and is refurbishing two more, which are due to come on line in 2009. Bruce will then have more than 6,000 megawatts of capacity. The major partners in the operation are uranium miner Cameco Corp. and pipeline company TransCanada Corp.. The power plants are divided into Bruce A and Bruce B stations, with four reactors each. All four Bruce B units and one in Bruce A will need to be refurbished or replaced between 2015 and 2020. Hawthorne said it was possible, if Ontario authorities call for more power, for the company to both refurbish the Bruce B reactors as well as build the new units for which it has started seeking regulatory approval. However, Bruce is limited by transmission capacity to get its power to market. Transmission upgrades are planned at least to take the extra electricity that will be made by the two refurbished Bruce A units starting in 2009. The company hopes that if it does decide to build some or all of the new 1,000-MW units it will start within three years and finish five years later -- by 2015 or 2016 -- just as the first Bruce B units are due to be retired or refurbished. --------------- Radiation monitors will screen goods nationwide (Richmond Times-Dispatch) Mar 2- U.S. Customs and Border Protection is installing radiation portal monitors nationwide -- at seaports, borders, rail crossings and international airports. The goal is to screen all incoming goods, people and vehicles for radiation. According to the agency's Web site, "Nuclear and radiological materials are of particular concern because of their potential to harm large numbers of people and disrupt the U.S. economy." No nuclear or radioactive devices have been found, but the agency reports investigating more than 800,000 alarms since 2002. Radiation detection portals -- permanent and mobile -- have been in place at Virginia Port Authority facilities in Hampton Roads for more than five years. They scan an average of 5,000 vehicles a day, including cars and trucks of port employees, according to the authority. The portable radiation trucks were put in use at the port in Richmond in January because it was not high on the government's priority list for potential terrorist attacks, the Customs and Border Protection agency said. ------------- Milky Way black hole may be colossal 'particle accelerator' (UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA NEWS RELEASE) Mar 2 - Scientists were startled when they discovered in 2004 that the center of our galaxy is emitting gamma rays with energies in the tens of trillions of electronvolts. Now astrophysicists at The University of Arizona, Los Alamos National Laboratory and the University of Adelaide (Australia) have discovered a mechanism that might produce these high-energy gamma rays. The black hole at the center of our Milky Way could be working like a cosmic particle accelerator, revving up protons that smash at incredible speeds into lower energy protons and creating high-energy gamma rays, they report. "It's similar to the same kind of particle physics experiments that the Large Hadron Collider being built at CERN will perform," UA astrophysicist David Ballantyne said. When complete, the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland will be able to accelerate protons to seven trillion electronvolts. Our galaxy's black hole whips protons to energies as much as 100 trillion electrovolts, according to the team's new study. That's all the more impressive because "Our black hole is pretty inactive compared to massive black holes sitting in other galaxies," Ballantyne noted. Ballantyne collaborated with UA astrophysics Professor Fulvio Melia in the new study published in Astrophysical Journal Letters. For the last several years, Melia has been developing a theory of what may be going on very close to the Milky Way's black hole. Melia and his group find that powerful, chaotic magnetic fields accelerate protons and other particles near the black hole to extremely high energies. "Our galaxy's central supermassive object has been a constant source of surprise ever since it's discovery some 30 years ago," Melia said. "Slowly but surely it has become the best studied and most compelling black hole in the universe. Now we're even finding that its apparent quietness over much of the spectrum belies the real power it generates a mere breath above its event horizon---the point of no return." Melia said that the Milky Way black hole "is one of the most energetic particle accelerators in the galaxy, but it does this by proxy, by cajoling the magnetized plasma haplessly trapped within its clutches into slinging protons to unearthly speeds." Ballantyne used detailed, realistic maps of interstellar gas extending 10 light years beyond the black hole in modeling whether accelerated protons launched from the galactic center would produce gamma rays. "We calculated very exactly how the protons would travel in this medium, taking into account specifically the magnetic force that changes the protons' trajectories," he said. The team calculated 222,000 proton trajectories for a statistically solid study. Even though the protons move close to the speed of light, their motion is so random that it takes several thousand years for the particles to travel beyond 10 light years of the black hole. After the high-energy protons escape the black hole environment, they fly off into the interstellar medium, where they collide with low-energy protons (hydrogen gas) in a smash-up so energetic that particles called 'pions' form. These particles of matter quickly decay into high-energy gamma rays that, like other radiation, travel in all directions. Ballantyne, Melia and and their colleagues found that this process can explain the energy spectrum and brightness of gamma-ray emission that astronomers observe. Researchers detect the high-energy gamma- ray emission with ground-based telescopes at Namibia, Africa, at Whipple Observatory in southeastern Arizona, and elsewhere. Only 31 percent of the 222,000 proton trajectories in their sample produced gamma rays within 10 light years of the black hole, Ballantyne said. The other 69 percent escape to greater distances, where presumably they, too, will interact in gamma ray-generating collisions. "Astronomers do, indeed, observe a glow of very-high energy gamma- rays from the inner regions of the galaxy," Ballantyne said. "It's possible that this emission is also caused by protons accelerated close to the central black hole." "Ironically, even though our galaxy's central black hole does not itself abundantly eject hyper-relativistic plasma into the surrounding medium, this discovery may indirectly explain how the most powerful black holes in the universe, including quasars, produce their enormous jets extending over intergalactic proportions. The same particle slinging almost certainly occurs in all black-hole systems, though with much greater power earlier in the universe," Melia said. Ballantyne holds UA's Theoretical Astrophysics Program Prize Postdoctoral Fellowship. The university's Theoretical Astrophysics Program, organized in 1985, is an interdisciplinary program of the UA departments of physics, astronomy and planetary sciences. A National Science Foundation grant funded this research. -------------- Veto nuclear waste bill (Daily Herald) Feb 27 - One of the bills sitting on Gov. Huntsman's desk is arguably the worst to emerge from this year's Legislature. It involves the way radioactive waste is approved or denied in Utah. For the sake of all Utahns, Hunstman should veto Senate Bill 155 and preserve the current system of oversight of elected officials when it comes to the expansion of a radioactive waste dump. The bill, sponsored by Nephi Republican Sen. Darrin Peterson, is nothing but a cheap way for the Legislature and governor to avoid a political hot potato -- a potato that it's their duty to handle. The bill would take elected officers out of the loop and allow state regulators to approve expansion requests that do not exceed a dump's original footprint. EnergySolutions under this scheme could find it much easier to win approval for doubling the height of its dump in Clive. All it would need is a simple OK from the state's Radiation Control Board instead of approval through the people's representatives -- the Legislature and the governor. It is no surprise that EnergySolutions would like to see elected officials taken out of the loop. The former Envirocare's last attempt to expand its waste operation was scuttled when Huntsman announced that he would not approve it. So SB 155 creates an end-run. Lower- level approval from regulators would mean that decision-making is taken away from the most important stakeholders -- ultimately the citizens of Utah. This bill is simply not in the public's best interest. More radioactive waste destined for EnergySolutions means more radioactive waste shipped by rail or truck through our communities. While EnergySolutions maintains that the material it stores is far safer than spent nuclear fuel rods proposed for Skull Valley, it is not harmless. It is dangerous enough that the EnergySolutions goes to great lengths to check its employees for radiation exposure. It is dangerous enough that two people who crashed through the dump's fence in a stolen car recently, and two Utah Highway Patrol troopers who responded to the accident, needed to be screened for radiation exposure. Do we really want more of this stuff out there, seeping into our soil and water? No. Nor do we want to be fending off proposal after proposal to increase the storage volume or the level of radiation accepted. When business sees a profit to be made, it is relentless. The history of nuclear waste storage in Utah provides a classic example of how big money nibbles away at political resolve. Utahns want to see their state marketed as a healthy, wholesome place to do business and raise a family. They do not desire a reputation as a radioactive dumping ground. Making it easier to dump this poison is not the best way to promote Utah to the world. The two most important reasons to keep the Legislature and the governor in the loop are to keep the process accountable to the people and to maintain integrity in the permitting process. EnergySolutions, in its life as Envirocare, was involved in an ugly incident in which then-owner Khosrow Semnani was accused of bribing the state director of radiation control to get approval to operate the dump. Semnani claimed that Larry Anderson demanded money in return for granting Envirocare the necessary approvals. Semnani paid a fine for not reporting the payments on his income tax while Anderson went to jail for tax evasion. Do we really want to create a climate that could increase such temptations for businesses and officials? Do we want them cutting ethical corners to advance a project? No. Yet that is the prospect if the governor signs SB 155. He must not do it. The Legislature and the governor should stand accountable to the people on this vital issue. They should not shrink from their duty. ------------ Feds ill-prepared to deal with nuke terror, report says WASHINGTON (McClatchy Newspapers) Mar 2 -- Although the Bush administration has warned repeatedly about the threat of a terrorist nuclear attack and spent more than $300 billion to protect the homeland, the government remains ill-prepared to respond to a nuclear catastrophe. Experts and federal documents suggest that, absent a major preparedness push, the U.S. response to a mushroom cloud could be worse than the Hurricane Katrina debacle, possibly contributing to civil disorder and costing thousands of lives. "The United States is unprepared to mitigate the consequences of a nuclear attack," Pentagon analyst John Brinkerhoff concluded in a July 31, 2005, draft of a confidential memo to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. "We were unable to find any group or office with a coherent approach to this very important aspect of homeland security. ... "This is a bad situation. The threat of a nuclear attack is real, and action is needed now to learn how to deal with one." Col. Jill Morgenthaler, Illinois' director of homeland security, said there was a "disconnect" between President Bush's and Vice President Dick Cheney's nuclear threat talk and the administration's actions. "I don't see money being focused on actual response and mitigation to a nuclear threat," she said. Interviews by McClatchy Newspapers with more than 15 radiation and emergency preparedness experts and a review of internal documents revealed: The government has yet to launch an educational program, akin to the Cold War-era civil defense campaign promoting fallout shelters, to teach Americans how to shield themselves from radiation, especially from the fallout plume, which could deposit deadly particles as far as 100 miles from Ground Zero. Analysts estimate that as many as 300,000 emergency workers would be needed after a nuclear attack, but predict that the radiation would scare many of them away from the disaster. Hospital emergency rooms wouldn't be able to handle the surge of people who were irradiated, or the many more who feared that they were. Medical teams would have to improvise to treat what could be tens of thousands of burn victims because most cities have only one or two available burn-unit beds. Cham Dallas, director of the University of Georgia's Center for Mass Destruction Defense, called the predicament "the worst link in our health care wall." Several drugs are in development, and one is especially promising, but the government hasn't acquired any significant new medicine to counteract radiation's devastating effects on victims' blood-forming bone marrow. Over the past three years, several federal agencies have taken some nuclear disaster planning steps. The Department of Health and Human Services has drawn up "playbooks" for a range of attack scenarios and created a Web site to instruct emergency responders in treating radiation victims. The Energy Department's Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory is geared to use real-time weather data, within minutes of a bombing, to create a computer model that charts the likely path of a radioactive fallout plume, so the government can warn affected people to take shelter or evacuate. The government also has modeled likely effects in blast zones. Capt. Ann Knebel, the U.S. Public Health Service's deputy preparedness chief, said her agency is using the models to understand how many people in different zones would suffer from blast injuries, burns or radiation sickness, "and to begin to match our resources to the types of injuries." The government's National Planning Scenario, which isn't public, projects that a relatively small, improvised 10-kiloton bomb could kill hundreds of thousands in a medium-sized city and cause hundreds of billions of dollars in economic losses. The document, last updated in April 2005, projects that a bomb detonated at ground level in Washington, D.C., would kill as many as 204,600 people, including many government officials, and would injure or sicken 90,800. Another 24,580 victims would die of radiation- related cancer in ensuing years. Radioactive debris would contaminate a 3,000-square-mile area, requiring years-long cleanup, it said. Mr. Brinkerhoff, author of the confidential memo for the Joint Chiefs, estimated that nearly 300,000 National Guardsmen, military reservists and civil emergency personnel would be needed to rescue, decontaminate, process and manage the 1.5 million evacuees. The job would include cordoning off the blast zone and manning a 200-mile perimeter around the fallout area to process and decontaminate victims, turn others away from the danger and maintain order. Mr. Brinkerhoff estimated that the military would need to provide 140,000 of the 300,000 responders, but doubted that the Pentagon would have that many. The Public Health Service's Capt. Knebel cited studies suggesting that the "fear factor" would reduce civil emergency responders by more than 30 percent. The U.S. intelligence community considers it a "fairly remote" possibility that terrorists will obtain weapons-grade plutonium or highly enriched uranium, which is more accessible, to build a nuclear weapon, said a senior intelligence official, who requested anonymity because of the information's sensitivity. The official said intelligence agencies worry mainly about a makeshift, radioactive "dirty bomb" that would kill, at most, a few hundred people, contaminate part of a city and spread panic. But concerns about a larger nuclear attack are increasing as North Korea is testing atomic arms and Iran is believed to be pursuing them. Al-Qaida's worldwide terrorist network also reportedly has been reconstituted. -------------- Los Alamos lab holds debate on nuclear fuel recycling LOS ALAMOS, N.M. Some retired Los Alamos National Laboratory scientists are praising a Bush administration plan to expand worldwide nuclear energy production. Other former Los Alamos scientists are calling the plan unworkable. The U-S Department of Energy initiative could bring nuclear facilities to three New Mexico locations, including Los Alamos where a public hearing was held yesterday. Los Alamos is being considered for a research facility under the plan. Roswell and Hobbs are in the running for a recycling center and reactor. The federal government wants to recycle spent nuclear fuel and reduce the amount of waste requiring permanent disposal. The government plans to release a draft report of environmental impacts this summer. Public comments are being accepted through April Fourth. -------------- Nevada panel warned about effort to license nuclear dump CARSON CITY, Nev Feb 28 - A Nevada panel fighting a proposed Yucca Mountain dump for nuclear waste was told Wednesday that project backers face big obstacles but are still seeking approval of the dump and of rail shipping routes - including one through downtown Reno and Sparks. The warning to the Nevada Commission on Nuclear Projects prompted its chairman, Richard Bryan, a former state governor and U.S. senator, to say, ``This is no time to sit back and assume everything will unfold ... in our favor.'' Bob Halstead, a transportation adviser to the commission, said rail shipments through the Reno-Sparks area would have a huge impact on commercial and residential properties near the route - possibly lowering their combined value by well over $1 billion. Asked after the commission meeting why Nevada must press its fight against the dump, Halstead said, ``We've driven a stake through this vampire's heart three or four times - and each time he stands up and says, 'Yucca Mountain.''' Halstead added that while U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D- Nev., has promised to block the Department of Energy's Yucca Mountain project, which already has cost at least $9 billion, Nevada remains the No. 1 target because no other states want to take high-level radioactive waste. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman said Feb. 5 that the DOE will prepare an application to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for a license for the dump, about 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas, by June 2008. President Bush has asked Congress for nearly $500 million to allow completion of the application. Originally scheduled to open in 1998, the dump has been set back repeatedly by lawsuits, money shortfalls and scientific controversies. The DOE's current best-case opening date for the dump, which would hold 77,000 tons of waste, is 2017. In his remarks to the commission, Halstead said some trains from waste-producing power plants would run on tracks parallel to Interstate 80 in northern Nevada, coming from the east and the west. Trains from the west would run through downtown Reno and Sparks. The trains would then run south to Yucca Mountain along a route near U.S. 95, which goes through several rural towns including Schurz, Hawthorne, Mina, Tonopah and Goldfield. Halstead said the DOE's estimated cost of upgrading rail routes and laying new track is $1.6 billion - but he termed that ``a made-up number.'' Also speaking at the commission meeting was Sparks City Manager Shaun Carey, who said the DOE rejected a request for a hearing on the rail route. He said the route is of particular concern for his city, since it's home to a major rail operations yard. Bob Loux, head of the state's Agency for Nuclear Projects, said it looks like the DOE wants to ``deliberately keep people in northern Nevada out of the process.'' DOE spokesman Allen Benson said a preliminary hearing on rail routes was held at the University of Nevada, Reno in late November, adding, ``I don't know much closer we could get to Sparks City Hall.'' He said additional hearings will be held in northern Nevada in the future. ``We're years away from routes,'' he added. ``We haven't settled on any routes. Our focus is on completing and submitting the licensing application.'' Benson also said the federal government has been hauling nuclear waste by truck for half a century with no problems. --------------- Westinghouse takes next step in China nuclear plant deal Westinghouse Electric Co.Mar 1 signed an agreement with officials in China Thursday that is the latest significant contractual step in the company's quest to build four nuclear power plants in that country. Neither the company nor officials in China are reporting the value of the deal, but analysts place the value of the deal for delivery of four Westinghouse AP1000 reactors at between $5 billion and $8 billion. The framework agreement signed in Beijing was with officers of China's state Nuclear Power Technology Company, officials with Westinghouse and their U.S. partner on the project, the Baton Rouge, La.-based Shaw Group Inc. The framework agreement provides such things as funding for long lead materials and early engineering. Final contracts on the four plants are scheduled to be finalized by mid-year. Over the next 25 to 30 years, Westinghouse expects to play a significant role in the construction of as many as 26 additional nuclear power plants in China. Along with the Chinese contract, Westinghouse has been selected to build as many as 12 nuclear power plants by energy consortiums in the Southeast. Westinghouse's plans are good news for local employment numbers, as the company is on pace to house as many as 2,000 new engineers in Southwestern Pennsylvania over the next five years. The company is currently deliberating between sites in Monroeville and Cranberry for a new engineering campus. Spokesman Vaughn Gilbert said Thursday that the company will be making an announcement on its site selection in the next two weeks. --------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Fri Mar 2 23:18:06 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 00:18:06 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Anyone know who this is? References: Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F26A@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> It's Ted de Castro. He's top notch technically. He's pretty blunt on social "science" and policy "foibles." I suspect he expects that most people know him, so he's really not trying to hide himself. :-) Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Efforrer at aol.com Sent: Fri 3/2/2007 8:41 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Anyone know who this is? I got a for you only not the list email regarding my views on privacy rights during certain situations. It was not signed and the writer equated my views with those Hitler and his SS would have espoused. While I agree that everyone is entitled their opinion it bothers me when people do it from the shadows. the email was _tdc at xrayted.com_ (mailto:tdc at xrayted.com) . Just curious who it was. Gene Forrer


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sat Mar 3 10:43:42 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 08:43:42 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Radiation studies to be expanded around Indian Point Message-ID: <45E9353E.18145.27BA0D53@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: Radiation studies to be expanded around Indian Point Coal-fired and nuclear power necessary, says Energy Ministry EDF's nuclear internationalization plans likely to succeed What if Every Nuclear Power Plant in the U.S. was Shut Down McCain tells Utahns he backs nuclear storage Nevada panel warned about effort to license nuclear dump Exelon, taxing bodies spar over valuation of Clinton Power Station ------------------------------------------------ Radiation studies to be expanded around Indian Point PLEASANTVILLE (THE JOURNAL NEWS) Mar 3 - State environmental regulators plan to broaden their scientific studies of fish and other wildlife in the vicinity of Indian Point, to better determine how radiation leaks at the Buchanan nuclear plants are affecting the Hudson River's ecosystem. A group of state health and environment officials announced the expanded studies yesterday, while participating in a Pace University roundtable discussion of tritium and strontium 90 leaks at Indian Point. The first leak was discovered in August 2005, and Indian Point engineers are still trying to determine the source and extent of radiated water that is seeping into the ground at the site. "We're going to sample more locations and more fish species, and we're going to analyze the flesh and the bone of the fish," said Barbara Youngberg, director of state's Department of Environmental Radiation Bureau. "We're probably going to start taking those in the spring and summer." Youngberg spoke, along with state health and environmental conservation officials, as part of a program sponsored by the Hudson River Sloop Clearwater, Pace's Academy for the Environment and the Indian Point Safe Energy Coalition. In mid-January, the owner of the nuclear plants, Entergy Nuclear Northeast, found traces of strontium 90 in four of 12 fish sampled as part of the company's required fish testing. The fish were caught during the summer of 2006 in two areas of the Hudson River, around the plant itself and near the Newburgh-Beacon Bridge. At the time, federal regulators said no other radioactive isotopes were found in the fish. Within days, state Department of Environmental Conservation officials said the amounts of the radioactive isotopes were "background levels" that could be found in fish in any part of the river. Yesterday's four-hour seminar covered the leaks from a variety of angles, including how water moves underground and which state and federal agencies should have jurisdiction over the pollution. Federal, state and county elected officials participated, and representatives of local municipalities were in the audience. Representatives of Indian Point, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency were invited to attend, but did not participate. The federal agencies sent observers, but Entergy, which owns the two working nuclear reactors, declined, saying the nongovernment participants were avowed opponents of the plant and the nuclear industry. Based on the applause for various statements made, it appeared that most of the 100-plus people in the audience of the Willcox Gymnasium were opponents as well. Ward Stone, a wildlife pathologist for the state Department of Environmental Conservation, said he would expand the examination of wildlife in the area to include snapping turtles, frogs and deer, as Assemblyman Richard Brodsky, D-Greenburgh, requested during his remarks. "The turtles and frogs stay around," Stone said during a break. He added that one test he was interested in doing was to cage and monitor fish in certain areas of the river, to "see what they pick up." Youngberg said the radiation levels that have been found in the Hudson River by the state so far are a tiny fraction of what is allowed. "It is in concentrations of less than 1 percent of the limit that we would apply for any facility discharging strontium 90 or tritium," she said. "There are no significant impacts offsite whatsoever." She said her agency will continue to monitor the leaks' impact on the environment. The NRC, the state Department of Health and Entergy have all agreed to participate in the additional sampling. Assemblywoman Ellen Jaffee, D-Suffern, who has called for closing Indian Point, said the extra studies were needed. Tim Rice, a DEC researcher who has been working on the Indian Point leaks almost since they were discovered, said the agency will continue to use the Newburgh-Beacon area as a control site, but will expand the specimen collection as far north as Catskill, N.Y., a distance of about 90 miles. Rice said taking fish from so far away should help determine if fish and blue crabs that will be tested are absorbing radiation from the atmosphere or from the reactors. He estimated that some results of the sampling should be available by the fall. -------------- Coal-fired and nuclear power necessary, says Energy Ministry BANGKOK, March 3 (TNA) - It will be difficult for Thailand to avoid counting on coal-fired and nuclear power plants in the future since natural gas is rarely found and in limited supply, according to the kingdom's Ministry of Energy. Deputy Permanent Secretary for Energy Nokun Sitthiphong said the ministry had recently organised a forum where around 80 academics and representatives of non-governmental organisations participated to discuss and exchange views on consumption of alternative energy such as natural gas, coal, and nuclear in the future, and a power development plan proposed by NGOs. The meeting found Thailand might experience a power shortage if it adhered to the power development plan (PDP). Under the plan prepared by NGOs last year, the country's power demand per month is expected to peak at 18,000 megawatts. But according to reliable information from other sources, the actual maximum demand considerably higher at 21,064 megawatts. Even in February, which is Thailand's 'winter' period (meaning that there is less demand for air-conditioning than in hotter months), the demand increased to 20,592 megawatts and is expected to peak at 22,567 megawatts. Because of this, it is difficult for Thailand to avoid relying on coal and nuclear energy for power generation because it is too risky to count solely on natural gas. According to data provided by Thailand's oil and gas conglomerate PTT Plc, natural gas supplies from the Gulf of Thailand and joint petroleum development areas with neighbouring countries could be supplied at 4 billion cubic feet per day while consumption is 2.1 billion. At the same time, the country purchases 1 billion cubic feet of natural gas from Myanmar. So, should Thailand need to consume more natural gas, it must import liquefied natural gas (LPG). However, since imports are probably limited to 10 million tonnees per year, it is worrying that the supply would not be enough for a new power plant. "Natural gas is very unlikely to be sufficient for a new power plant. So, nuclear power is one of the alternative choices. Equally important, consumption of nuclear power can help relieve the problem of a warmer global climate," he said. (TNA)-E005 ------------ EDF's nuclear internationalization plans likely to succeed EDF's plans to invest and partner in new build nuclear capacity projects around the world are a judicious move given its status as one of the world's leading nuclear power players. However, the attractions and prospects in its four target markets vary considerably. 'Content EDF has stated its intention to become a world leader in the development of nuclear power projects. The plans, which emerged at the company's recent annual financial briefing, involve focusing on project developments in four key markets. The exact form the development of these plans will take is yet to be defined, but the company has stated that it is likely to be based on both construction and operation partnerships, as well as direct investment. Aside from a desire to harness its expertise in nuclear power to create further revenue streams, the decision to seek a greater role in plant development is likely to be part of EDF's response to the impact of the Power Directive. While EDF has done well in holding onto the bulk of its market share in the wake of the first phase of market opening arising from the Electricity Directive, it is certain to be seeking ways to mitigate the revenue loss resulting from new entrants to the French market. This is becoming increasingly important given that full market opening will take place in July 2007. The four markets EDF is targeting - China, South Africa, the UK and the US - each have their own specific attractions to EDF, although present differing challenges. Development of nuclear capacity in China is a particularly sound strategy given the rapid and continued demand growth for energy in the country. Over the past five years, primary energy demand in China has grown at an annualized rate of around 10%, far ahead of the global average of 2.6%. Within this context, electricity demand has shown similarly rapid expansion. With strong economic growth set to continue, the rapid growth in power demand seen in recent years is unlikely to diminish. The attractions of China for EDF also lie in the fact that nuclear capacity makes up a very small proportion of the generation mix. Fossil fuels, particularly coal, make up the vast majority of currently installed capacity with hydro also playing a key role. The combination of rapid demand growth, growing environmental-related disincentives to burn coal and a resultant need for new capacity mean that new build nuclear capacity in China has significant potential to be highly lucrative for EDF. In the US, nuclear capacity is already well established and accounts for around 21% of installed capacity. Given that the US accounts for around 22% of all the energy used in the world, yet just 4.6% of the world's population, the potential market size is significant. However, despite this, developing nuclear projects in the US is unlikely to be as easy as some of EDF's other target markets. New build nuclear capacity has undergone something of a hiatus in recent years, with fossil fuels higher up the political agenda. Meanwhile, with just one installed nuclear facility, the 1,800MW Koeberg plant, nuclear power is very much on the fringes in South Africa. Instead, the country's vast coal reserves dominate the generation mix. However, the prospects for new build capacity remain significant given the demand growth, albeit steady rather than dramatic growth, and the need to diversify the generation mix away from coal. Finally, with a well established place for nuclear technology in the energy mix, a pressing need to construct new capacity and a recent statement by British Energy that it is seeking partners for new build capacity, the UK would appear to be a key target for EDF's nuclear plans. However, the situation is clouded by the considerable uncertainty that exists with regard to UK nuclear policy. Decommissioning issues and the guarantees investors are keen to see from the government remain opaque, meaning that EDF, or indeed other investors, are unlikely to be willing to make large-scale investments until these issues are clarified. EDF's expertise and experience in nuclear capacity derive from its long history as a nuclear power producer in its home market and the highly established nature of nuclear technology in France. As such, it is particularly well placed to exploit the commercial opportunities in nuclear technology not only in the four markets it has expressed an interest in, but also further afield. ------------- Stunning New Novel Explores What Would Happen if Every Nuclear Power Plant in the U.S. was Shut Down A zealot creates an energy crisis that puts the country in turmoil in Peter A. Thonet's timely thriller, Magnum Opus. San Francisco, CA (PRWEB) March 3, 2007 -- Magnum Opus, Peter A. Thonet's thrilling new novel, tackles a terrifying scenario: all nuclear power plants in the America have stopped working, the military is at a loss to help, and even the president must yield to a new kind of unimaginable terror. Magnum Opus, a provocative and relevant novel by Peter A. Thonet, imagines the next terrifying step in the energy crisis currently plaguing the United States. Disgusted with the ease in which politicians ignore the future of energy, Thonet's protagonist is determined to set things right. But he doesn't expect a formidable new adversary: a young San Franciscan sugar cane heir, who fights him at every turn. Written with probing intelligence in clear, lucid prose, Magnum Opus is a fictional story grounded in truth. Thrillingly told, the book offers not just a terrific page-turning read, but a warning: unless the energy question is addressed, and soon, the United States will walk headfirst into unavoidable disaster. ------------- McCain tells Utahns he backs nuclear storage (Deseret Morning News) - Arizona Sen. John McCain said Friday he supports high-level nuclear waste storage in Nevada - even though Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. praised McCain as the only GOP presidential candidate who understands Western issues. Laura Seitz, Deseret Morning NewsArizona Sen. John McCain speaks to the media in Salt Lake City on Friday. "I believe we can transport waste safely," he said. Huntsman, along with most elected officials and voters in the West, opposes the proposed Yucca Mountain facility, citing concerns about radioactive waste being transported through Utah and other states on its way to the site. But McCain mocked a question about the dangers of transporting nuclear waste while speaking with Utah reporters. "Oh, you have to travel through states ... I am for Yucca Mountain. I'm for storage facilities. It's a lot better than sitting outside power plants all over America," he said, then added, "I don't mean to be sarcastic. I apologize. But I believe we can transport waste safely." McCain said other countries including France have shown nuclear power can be generated "safely, economically and their greenhouse gas emissions are dramatically reduced. I worry a lot more about climate change than I do about transporting nuclear waste." Huntsman introduced McCain at the mid-morning press conference held at the Grand America Hotel as the "quintessentially Western candidate ... he understands our issues and our values and that's very, very important." Afterward, Huntsman acknowledged he disagrees with McCain on transporting nuclear waste. "When it goes through your back yard I would probably reflect the concern that a lot of people have," the governor said. Huntsman is supporting McCain's presidential bid despite the popularity in Utah of another GOP candidate, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, who headed the successful 2002 Winter Olympics and is a Mormon like the majority of the state's residents. Utah's governor said McCain "has an unparalleled world view ... he understands how to put the pieces back together again." Still, Huntsman said, within the next year, "we're all going to get around whoever the Republican nominee is." McCain's overnight visit came just over a week after Romney raised more than $1 million in Salt Lake City and St. George. The current frontrunner for the Republican nomination, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, is expected in the state soon. Huntsman said the visits are a result of Utah's participation in the Western-states primary set for Feb. 5, 2008. Utah is participating at a cost of some $3.5 million, in the hopes of attracting campaign spending and candidate attention. McCain called Utah "a battleground state among Republicans" but said he didn't like so many early primaries. Spacing out the contests gives the public more time to consider the candidates, he said, adding that now, "it's pretty much over by the beginning of February." Huntsman was scheduled to appear with McCain Friday evening at a major fund-raiser in the Phoenix Convention Center that costs as much as $2,300 a person to attend. McCain arrived in Utah Thursday morning and spent time with Huntsman before attending a fund-raiser at a private Federal Heights home where he raised more than $150,000. Thursday evening, McCain headed to Deer Valley to address a group of executives from JPMorgan Chase, a global financial services firm. McCain held private meetings with a number of local supporters, reportedly collecting additional contributions. The senator responded to recent reports that some of his supporters have made anonymous, critical comments about Romney's membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, calling such actions "despicable." McCain said if that was indeed happening, he wanted to know who was responsible. "I would immediately condemn them. I would immediately make sure they had nothing to do with my campaign. It's disgraceful and dishonorable," he said. Laura Seitz, Deseret Morning NewsGov. Jon Huntsman and Sen. John McCain prepare for the press on Friday. Huntsman said McCain "has an unparalleled world view." Asked if he were trying to appeal to Mormon voters, McCain said he was trying to appeal to everybody "but not on the basis of religion, but on the basis of how I can best give them and their children a better future." ---------------- Nevada panel warned about effort to license nuclear dump CARSON CITY, Nev.(AP) Feb 28 - A Nevada panel fighting a proposed Yucca Mountain dump for nuclear waste was told Wednesday that project backers face big obstacles but are still seeking approval of the dump and of rail shipping routes - including one through downtown Reno and Sparks. The warning to the Nevada Commission on Nuclear Projects prompted its chairman, Richard Bryan, a former state governor and U.S. senator, to say, ``This is no time to sit back and assume everything will unfold ... in our favor.'' Bob Halstead, a transportation adviser to the commission, said rail shipments through the Reno-Sparks area would have a huge impact on commercial and residential properties near the route - possibly lowering their combined value by well over $1 billion. Asked after the commission meeting why Nevada must press its fight against the dump, Halstead said, ``We've driven a stake through this vampire's heart three or four times - and each time he stands up and says, 'Yucca Mountain.''' Halstead added that while U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D- Nev., has promised to block the Department of Energy's Yucca Mountain project, which already has cost at least $9 billion, Nevada remains the No. 1 target because no other states want to take high-level radioactive waste. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman said Feb. 5 that the DOE will prepare an application to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for a license for the dump, about 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas, by June 2008. President Bush has asked Congress for nearly $500 million to allow completion of the application. Originally scheduled to open in 1998, the dump has been set back repeatedly by lawsuits, money shortfalls and scientific controversies. The DOE's current best-case opening date for the dump, which would hold 77,000 tons of waste, is 2017. In his remarks to the commission, Halstead said some trains from waste-producing power plants would run on tracks parallel to Interstate 80 in northern Nevada, coming from the east and the west. Trains from the west would run through downtown Reno and Sparks. The trains would then run south to Yucca Mountain along a route near U.S. 95, which goes through several rural towns including Schurz, Hawthorne, Mina, Tonopah and Goldfield. Halstead said the DOE's estimated cost of upgrading rail routes and laying new track is $1.6 billion - but he termed that ``a made-up number.'' Also speaking at the commission meeting was Sparks City Manager Shaun Carey, who said the DOE rejected a request for a hearing on the rail route. He said the route is of particular concern for his city, since it's home to a major rail operations yard. Bob Loux, head of the state's Agency for Nuclear Projects, said it looks like the DOE wants to ``deliberately keep people in northern Nevada out of the process.'' DOE spokesman Allen Benson said a preliminary hearing on rail routes was held at the University of Nevada, Reno in late November, adding, ``I don't know much closer we could get to Sparks City Hall.'' He said additional hearings will be held in northern Nevada in the future. ``We're years away from routes,'' he added. ``We haven't settled on any routes. Our focus is on completing and submitting the licensing application.'' Benson also said the federal government has been hauling nuclear waste by truck for half a century with no problems. -------------- Exelon, taxing bodies spar over valuation of Clinton Power Station CLINTON - The taxable value of the Clinton Power Station should not include its future potential to produce power, representatives of Exelon Energy Co. told a DeWitt County tax review board Thursday. Attorneys for the utility differed with a lawyer for seven taxing bodies in the county on how the nuclear plant should be assessed. At stake is millions of dollars in tax money for local schools and other government bodies. The DeWitt County Board of Review met to hear opinions from Exelon and the taxing bodies on the most recent assessment of the plant. DeWitt County Supervisor of Assessments Sandy Moody recently placed a taxable value of $200 million on the plant. Exelon's estimates place the equalized assessed value at $168 million, but the taxing bodies estimate the value at about $202 million. The taxable value of the plant now is $100 million. Exelon's attorney, Terry Moritz, objected to the county's inclusion of a permit for a possible second reactor unit as part of the plant's value. The federal Nuclear Regulatory Commission has made no decision on the permit, which would allow the plant to add a power-generating unit in the future. "The Early Site Permit has no meaningful value to this facility," said Moritz. The potential for a second unit makes the plant more valuable to buyers, if Exelon decides to sell in the future, according to Moody. Fred Lane, attorney for the taxing bodies, told the three-member review panel that his appraiser used "the real-life approach" in arriving at the plant's taxable value. The income produced by the plant was a factor in assessing the plant's value, said Lane. He said calculations did not take into consideration the $4 billion it cost to build the Clinton plant. Exelon said Wednesday that the company has no objections to paying its fair share of property taxes in DeWitt County. Exelon's appraisal would result in a tax bill of $7.7 million, and the county's estimates would mean a tax bill of $8.5 million, according to Exelon data. Exelon spokesman Bruce Paulsen said the company is interested in a new, multiyear agreement with taxing districts. A five-year agreement expired last year, and the plant's equalized assessed value decreased to $100 million. Clinton school Superintendent Jeff Holmes attended the review hearing. The district has planned its budget around the $200 million figure. The difference between the two sides would cost the school district about $400,000, according to district estimates. The taxing board will issue its ruling on the Exelon appeal within seven days. ------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From Efforrer at aol.com Sat Mar 3 13:57:08 2007 From: Efforrer at aol.com (Efforrer at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 14:57:08 EST Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re:Anyone know who this is? Message-ID: Ted did email and explain he figured everyone knew who he was and that he indeed was not making snide comments from the shadows. On one hand I feel that if you cannot make comparisons to an opinion and Nazism in the light of the public forum you shouldn't make them. However on the other hand, which I feel is the bigger hand, I have to applaud him for keeping the social commentary off the list intended to discuss radiological issues. Others could probably learn from his example and keep their sniping at each others opinions and politics on private emails. Thank you Ted for clarifying your position. Just my 2 cents worth. Gene Forrer


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 20:26:51 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:26:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Well, I guess that proves what they think about Americans. Arrogant, self-centered, etc. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > be > like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? > > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our > solution has certainly not changed the risks we > face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers > of > Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the > problem > with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle > East and other areas. They many not have shared > your > beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the > U.S.'s > view of the Japanese during WWII. They were > subhuman > also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > > person simply got on a plane > > with a gun where there was no security check > > performed. It wasn't until much > > later that metal detectors were implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves > > .. and that reason was > > also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred > > to die along with the > > thousands of innocents that they murdered. You > can't > > compare apples and > > oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ > > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > > > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > > > Is > > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail > beta. > http://new.mail.yahoo.com > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 20:37:05 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:37:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59E@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <55840.15684.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Sandy, And do you care how much these "layers" cost? How much for the next layer are you willing to pay, not that you are one who really is bearing the cost? In time, this terrorism with pass, and what legacy will we leave the world? Fortress America? --- Sandy Perle wrote: > Hi Neill, > > The interviews are a good practice. However I look > at each technique as > complimentary to another technique. Recall that > Richard Reed walked through > the interview process, and if he had tried to use a > lighter instead of a > match, that AA flight would have been blown to > pieces over the Atlantic. We > need multiple layers of security, recognizing that > we will never stop a > dedicated well-trained group from finally succeeding > in implementing their > reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because > something won't stop 100% of > the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential use. > The body scanners will > detect most weapons, but not all. The interview may > catch many, but not all. > We need better technology, but nothing will be > full-proof. > > While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour > flight, I can assure you > that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and > better than I did 5 years > ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from now. > Let's not throw the > baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to > develop and implement new > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > never get there. There > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Neill Stanford > [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM > To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; > radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > None of the new technologies make me feel safer. > Every new one inspires me > to think of how easily motivated people could get > around them. We remove our > laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one > checks the piles of > electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, > battery packs, > chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz > bottles of liquid or > gel but what is to stop a group from combining them > once on board? These > systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, > clever bad guys know > how to get around them. > > What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the > detailed personal interview > at the gate that many European airports have > implemented for flights to the > USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. > Well-trained interviewers > asking questions designed to catch you off guard, > and observing reactions. > Much more effective than the parroted "were you in > possession of the bags > since..." > > > Neill Stanford, CHP > Stanford Dosimetry, LLC > ------------------------------------------ > (360) 527 2627 > (360) 715 1982 (fax) > (360) 770 7778 (cell) > www.stanforddosimetry.com > ------------------------------------------ > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf > Of Sandy Perle > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM > To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > sub-human. They still are > in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > be like kidnapping the > plane to fly to another country? > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > round of terrorist is > unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not > changed the risks we > face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers > of Sept 11 were not > subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans > looking at the problems > in the Middle East and other areas. They many not > have shared your beliefs, > but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of > the Japanese during > WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a > > plane with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It > > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were > implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves .. and that reason > > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred to die along > > with the thousands of innocents that they > murdered. You can't compare > > apples and oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global > Dosimetry > > Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > > Just Bags > > > > In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > === message truncated === +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 From sandyfl at cox.net Sat Mar 3 20:47:38 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 02:47:38 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <538226226-1172976440-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1534337609-@bxe059-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> John, Your comment regarding the 9/11 murders, questioning an American who believes that this type of a person, not a Nationality or condemnation of a group, but a statement of fact that any individual who can murder thousands of innocent individuals, is simply amazing. Your comment is akin to blaming society for this murderous act. Instead of making statements that imply acceptance of this despicable act, as well as every suicide attack, wherever it occurs, you should condem them, and accept the fact that anyone who can do this in the name of whatever God they think condones their mass murder, that they are sub-human, without a soul, period. Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:26:51 To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Well, I guess that proves what they think about Americans. Arrogant, self-centered, etc. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > be > like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? > > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our > solution has certainly not changed the risks we > face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers > of > Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the > problem > with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle > East and other areas. They many not have shared > your > beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the > U.S.'s > view of the Japanese during WWII. They were > subhuman > also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > > person simply got on a plane > > with a gun where there was no security check > > performed. It wasn't until much > > later that metal detectors were implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves > > .. and that reason was > > also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred > > to die along with the > > thousands of innocents that they murdered. You > can't > > compare apples and > > oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ > > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > > > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > > > Is > > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail > beta. > http://new.mail.yahoo.com > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sat Mar 3 20:50:41 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 02:50:41 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <55840.15684.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB59E@gdses.corp.gds.com> <55840.15684.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <697284240-1172976623-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-647024906-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> John, we do pay the bill. I have no problem paying a little more on every ticket I purchase. We disagree on how much protection is provided. I accept the new systems as being a positive step. Let's just say we disagree and leave it at that. We can debate more when we're at NCRP next month. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:37:05 To:radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Sandy, And do you care how much these "layers" cost? How much for the next layer are you willing to pay, not that you are one who really is bearing the cost? In time, this terrorism with pass, and what legacy will we leave the world? Fortress America? --- Sandy Perle wrote: > Hi Neill, > > The interviews are a good practice. However I look > at each technique as > complimentary to another technique. Recall that > Richard Reed walked through > the interview process, and if he had tried to use a > lighter instead of a > match, that AA flight would have been blown to > pieces over the Atlantic. We > need multiple layers of security, recognizing that > we will never stop a > dedicated well-trained group from finally succeeding > in implementing their > reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because > something won't stop 100% of > the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential use. > The body scanners will > detect most weapons, but not all. The interview may > catch many, but not all. > We need better technology, but nothing will be > full-proof. > > While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour > flight, I can assure you > that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and > better than I did 5 years > ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from now. > Let's not throw the > baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to > develop and implement new > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > never get there. There > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Neill Stanford > [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM > To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; > radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > None of the new technologies make me feel safer. > Every new one inspires me > to think of how easily motivated people could get > around them. We remove our > laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one > checks the piles of > electronic stuff that many of us travel with: PDA's, > battery packs, > chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 oz > bottles of liquid or > gel but what is to stop a group from combining them > once on board? These > systems are all well-publicized and well-understood, > clever bad guys know > how to get around them. > > What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the > detailed personal interview > at the gate that many European airports have > implemented for flights to the > USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. > Well-trained interviewers > asking questions designed to catch you off guard, > and observing reactions. > Much more effective than the parroted "were you in > possession of the bags > since..." > > > Neill Stanford, CHP > Stanford Dosimetry, LLC > ------------------------------------------ > (360) 527 2627 > (360) 715 1982 (fax) > (360) 770 7778 (cell) > www.stanforddosimetry.com > ------------------------------------------ > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf > Of Sandy Perle > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM > To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > sub-human. They still are > in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > be like kidnapping the > plane to fly to another country? > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > round of terrorist is > unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not > changed the risks we > face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers > of Sept 11 were not > subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans > looking at the problems > in the Middle East and other areas. They many not > have shared your beliefs, > but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of > the Japanese during > WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a > > plane with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It > > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were > implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves .. and that reason > > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred to die along > > with the thousands of innocents that they > murdered. You can't compare > > apples and oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global > Dosimetry > > Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > > Just Bags > > > > In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > === message truncated === +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sat Mar 3 21:02:52 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 03:02:52 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <675047163-1172977354-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1669028771-@bxe014-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> John, My last comment on this thread is as follows. I grieve for every individual who is a victim of any group that kills indiscriminately. Any individual, no matter their nationality, religion, or other belief system, who kills for the pure pleasure of killing, is a sub-human, without a soul, and is worse than an animal. An animal does what comes naturally. Killing innocents is not a natural or acceptable event. Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:26:51 To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Well, I guess that proves what they think about Americans. Arrogant, self-centered, etc. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > be > like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? > > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our > solution has certainly not changed the risks we > face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers > of > Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the > problem > with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle > East and other areas. They many not have shared > your > beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the > U.S.'s > view of the Japanese during WWII. They were > subhuman > also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > > person simply got on a plane > > with a gun where there was no security check > > performed. It wasn't until much > > later that metal detectors were implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves > > .. and that reason was > > also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred > > to die along with the > > thousands of innocents that they murdered. You > can't > > compare apples and > > oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ > > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > In the > > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > > > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > > > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > > > Is > > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > ?We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only > 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot > impose our will upon the other 94 percent of > mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse > each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an > American solution to every world problem.? > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail > beta. > http://new.mail.yahoo.com > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 21:51:30 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 19:51:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <538226226-1172976440-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1534337609-@bxe059-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <339064.22578.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Sandy, The terrorists of Sept 11 were murderers, but they were not sub-human. They were educated, and were human like us. I do not know if they had souls, but apparently you do. I certainly do not condone their actions, but as an American, I can certainly question what you say, and what our country/government does. Flammatory retoric may impress some people, but distracts from the real issue of why they did what they did. Maybe if we understood their motivation, we could prevent future acts of terrorism. You certainly not the sole decider of what is posted on this list server. While you cannot accept the fact that others may disagree with you, some of us do. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > Your comment regarding the 9/11 murders, questioning > an American who believes that this type of a person, > not a Nationality or condemnation of a group, but a > statement of fact that any individual who can murder > thousands of innocent individuals, is simply > amazing. Your comment is akin to blaming society for > this murderous act. Instead of making statements > that imply acceptance of this despicable act, as > well as every suicide attack, wherever it occurs, > you should condem them, and accept the fact that > anyone who can do this in the name of whatever God > they think condones their mass murder, that they are > sub-human, without a soul, period. > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:26:51 > To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Well, I guess that proves what they think about > Americans. Arrogant, self-centered, etc. > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. > > > > Sandy > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Sat Mar 3 21:55:49 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 19:55:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <697284240-1172976623-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-647024906-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <140323.43273.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Sandy, And what additional protection does this system provide? It is a one airport, and not used by every passenger or flight crew member. It is a big PR stunt to try and impress the public that the government is doing something useful. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, we do pay the bill. I have no problem paying a > little more on every ticket I purchase. We disagree > on how much protection is provided. I accept the new > systems as being a positive step. Let's just say we > disagree and leave it at that. > > We can debate more when we're at NCRP next month. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:37:05 > To:radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Sandy, > And do you care how much these "layers" cost? How > much for the next layer are you willing to pay, not > that you are one who really is bearing the cost? > > In time, this terrorism with pass, and what legacy > will we leave the world? Fortress America? > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > Hi Neill, > > > > The interviews are a good practice. However I look > > at each technique as > > complimentary to another technique. Recall that > > Richard Reed walked through > > the interview process, and if he had tried to use > a > > lighter instead of a > > match, that AA flight would have been blown to > > pieces over the Atlantic. We > > need multiple layers of security, recognizing that > > we will never stop a > > dedicated well-trained group from finally > succeeding > > in implementing their > > reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because > > something won't stop 100% of > > the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential > use. > > The body scanners will > > detect most weapons, but not all. The interview > may > > catch many, but not all. > > We need better technology, but nothing will be > > full-proof. > > > > While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour > > flight, I can assure you > > that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and > > better than I did 5 years > > ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from > now. > > Let's not throw the > > baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to > > develop and implement new > > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > > never get there. There > > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing > it. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ > > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Neill Stanford > > [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM > > To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; > > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > None of the new technologies make me feel safer. > > Every new one inspires me > > to think of how easily motivated people could get > > around them. We remove our > > laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one > > checks the piles of > > electronic stuff that many of us travel with: > PDA's, > > battery packs, > > chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 > oz > > bottles of liquid or > > gel but what is to stop a group from combining > them > > once on board? These > > systems are all well-publicized and > well-understood, > > clever bad guys know > > how to get around them. > > > > What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the > > detailed personal interview > > at the gate that many European airports have > > implemented for flights to the > > USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. > > Well-trained interviewers > > asking questions designed to catch you off guard, > > and observing reactions. > > Much more effective than the parroted "were you in > > possession of the bags > > since..." > > > > > > Neill Stanford, CHP > > Stanford Dosimetry, LLC > > ------------------------------------------ > > (360) 527 2627 > > (360) 715 1982 (fax) > > (360) 770 7778 (cell) > > www.stanforddosimetry.com > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf > > Of Sandy Perle > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM > > To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > John, > > > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > > sub-human. They still are > > in my opinion.. > > > > Sandy > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus > > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > > To:Sandy Perle , > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > > be like kidnapping the > > plane to fly to another country? > > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > > round of terrorist is > > unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly > not > > changed the risks we > > face. > > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > > > I would add that your comment that the 19 > hijackers > > of Sept 11 were not > > subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with > Americans > > looking at the problems > > in the Middle East and other areas. They many not > > have shared your beliefs, > > but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view > of > > the Japanese during > > WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > === message truncated === +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front From sandyfl at cox.net Sat Mar 3 22:02:30 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 20:02:30 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <140323.43273.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5B6@gdses.corp.gds.com> John, This system at Phoenix is a pilot program. If it is successful, it will be put to use in other airports. You're correct in stating that it is not used on every individual. Currently only those individuals selected for an additional search are given the option on using the new system, or, having a hands-on pat down. The majority of individuals selected have accepted the scan instead of the pat down. How successful this system will be, I don't know. I don't consider this to be simply a PR stunt. Time will tell. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 7:56 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Sandy, And what additional protection does this system provide? It is a one airport, and not used by every passenger or flight crew member. It is a big PR stunt to try and impress the public that the government is doing something useful. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, we do pay the bill. I have no problem paying a > little more on every ticket I purchase. We disagree > on how much protection is provided. I accept the new > systems as being a positive step. Let's just say we > disagree and leave it at that. > > We can debate more when we're at NCRP next month. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:37:05 > To:radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Sandy, > And do you care how much these "layers" cost? How > much for the next layer are you willing to pay, not > that you are one who really is bearing the cost? > > In time, this terrorism with pass, and what legacy > will we leave the world? Fortress America? > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > Hi Neill, > > > > The interviews are a good practice. However I look > > at each technique as > > complimentary to another technique. Recall that > > Richard Reed walked through > > the interview process, and if he had tried to use > a > > lighter instead of a > > match, that AA flight would have been blown to > > pieces over the Atlantic. We > > need multiple layers of security, recognizing that > > we will never stop a > > dedicated well-trained group from finally > succeeding > > in implementing their > > reign of terror. That doesn't mean that because > > something won't stop 100% of > > the attempts, that we eliminate it's potential > use. > > The body scanners will > > detect most weapons, but not all. The interview > may > > catch many, but not all. > > We need better technology, but nothing will be > > full-proof. > > > > While I don't feel 100% safe getting on a 12 hour > > flight, I can assure you > > that I feel safer than I did 10 years ago, and > > better than I did 5 years > > ago. I hope to feel a lot safer in 5 years from > now. > > Let's not throw the > > baby out with the bathwater. Let's continue to > > develop and implement new > > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > > never get there. There > > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing > it. > > > > Sandy > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sandy Perle > > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations > > Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. > > 2652 McGaw Avenue > > Irvine, CA 92614 > > > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension > 2306 > > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > > > Global Dosimetry Website: > http://www.dosimetry.com/ > > Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Neill Stanford > > [mailto:stanford at stanforddosimetry.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:49 PM > > To: sandyfl at cox.net; 'John Jacobus'; > > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan > > Bodies, Not Just Bags > > > > None of the new technologies make me feel safer. > > Every new one inspires me > > to think of how easily motivated people could get > > around them. We remove our > > laptops but don't turn them on anymore. No one > > checks the piles of > > electronic stuff that many of us travel with: > PDA's, > > battery packs, > > chargers, bags of dosimeters. We are limited to 3 > oz > > bottles of liquid or > > gel but what is to stop a group from combining > them > > once on board? These > > systems are all well-publicized and > well-understood, > > clever bad guys know > > how to get around them. > > > > What does make me feel safer, much safer, is the > > detailed personal interview > > at the gate that many European airports have > > implemented for flights to the > > USA. Similar to El Al's time tested techniques. > > Well-trained interviewers > > asking questions designed to catch you off guard, > > and observing reactions. > > Much more effective than the parroted "were you in > > possession of the bags > > since..." > > > > > > Neill Stanford, CHP > > Stanford Dosimetry, LLC > > ------------------------------------------ > > (360) 527 2627 > > (360) 715 1982 (fax) > > (360) 770 7778 (cell) > > www.stanforddosimetry.com > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf > > Of Sandy Perle > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:18 PM > > To: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > John, > > > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > > sub-human. They still are > > in my opinion.. > > > > Sandy > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Jacobus > > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > > To:Sandy Perle , > radsafe at radlab.nl > > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > > Scan Bodies, Not Just > > Bags > > > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > > be like kidnapping the > > plane to fly to another country? > > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > > round of terrorist is > > unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly > not > > changed the risks we > > face. > > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > > > I would add that your comment that the 19 > hijackers > > of Sept 11 were not > > subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with > Americans > > looking at the problems > > in the Middle East and other areas. They many not > > have shared your beliefs, > > but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view > of > > the Japanese during > > WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > > > John, > > > > === message truncated === +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front From LNMolino at aol.com Sat Mar 3 22:09:05 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 23:09:05 EST Subject: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan) Message-ID: In a message dated 3/3/2007 8:40:32 P.M. Central Standard Time, crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: In time, this terrorism with pass, Please tell me you're not serious? "this terrorism" will likely be with us for millenniums as it has in other parts of the world. We are in a world where one can get from any point on the planet to another point in mere hours if not days. The spread of the threat is very real and will not just be gone and it IS a RAD issue as some would seek to take the power of the atom to do evil deeds with and they would not hesitates in dying to do so hence WE should be concerned about it. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 00:13:33 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 23:13:33 -0700 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <538226226-1172976440-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1534337609- @bxe059-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <693288.87244.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070303231043.009f14e0@mail.swcp.com> March 3 The September 11 terrorists were not sub-human. They were humans --- morally depraved humans. (Yes, I used the "m" word.) Steven Dapra At 02:47 AM 3/4/07 +0000, Sandy Perle wrote: >John, > >Your comment regarding the 9/11 murders, questioning an American who >believes that this type of a person, not a Nationality or condemnation of >a group, but a statement of fact that any individual who can murder >thousands of innocent individuals, is simply amazing. Your comment is akin >to blaming society for this murderous act. Instead of making statements >that imply acceptance of this despicable act, as well as every suicide >attack, wherever it occurs, you should condem them, and accept the fact >that anyone who can do this in the name of whatever God they think >condones their mass murder, that they are sub-human, without a soul, period. > > >Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless [edit] From syd.levine at mindspring.com Sun Mar 4 01:14:40 2007 From: syd.levine at mindspring.com (Syd H. Levine) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 02:14:40 -0500 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags References: <339064.22578.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005701c75e2c$c8196d30$0200a8c0@Shop> John: You wanted to know what I meant in my earlier email (which email did not reach the list since I was on a different account), well you just stated it succinctly. "Maybe if we understood their motivation, we could prevent future acts of terrorism." Can you understand the killing of innocents no matter how oppressed the offenders argue they may be? I hope you cannot. Subhuman is a figure of speech of course, but if anything is subhuman behavior, it is terrorism. Would you have argued we needed to understand motivation at Nuremburg? Syd H. Levine AnaLog Services, Inc. Phone: 270-276-5671 Telefax: 270-276-5588 E-mail: analog at logwell.com URL: www.logwell.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jacobus" To: ; Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 10:51 PM Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > Sandy, > The terrorists of Sept 11 were murderers, but they > were not sub-human. They were educated, and were > human like us. I do not know if they had souls, but > apparently you do. > > I certainly do not condone their actions, but as an > American, I can certainly question what you say, and > what our country/government does. Flammatory retoric > may impress some people, but distracts from the real > issue of why they did what they did. Maybe if we > understood their motivation, we could prevent future > acts of terrorism. > > You certainly not the sole decider of what is posted > on this list server. While you cannot accept the fact > that others may disagree with you, some of us do. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > >> John, >> >> Your comment regarding the 9/11 murders, questioning >> an American who believes that this type of a person, >> not a Nationality or condemnation of a group, but a >> statement of fact that any individual who can murder >> thousands of innocent individuals, is simply >> amazing. Your comment is akin to blaming society for >> this murderous act. Instead of making statements >> that imply acceptance of this despicable act, as >> well as every suicide attack, wherever it occurs, >> you should condem them, and accept the fact that >> anyone who can do this in the name of whatever God >> they think condones their mass murder, that they are >> sub-human, without a soul, period. >> >> >> Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John Jacobus >> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:26:51 >> To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl >> Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays >> Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags >> >> Well, I guess that proves what they think about >> Americans. Arrogant, self-centered, etc. >> >> --- Sandy Perle wrote: >> >> > John, >> > >> > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were >> > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. >> > >> > Sandy >> > >> > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless >> > >> > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or > omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we > cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we > cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there > cannot be an American solution to every world problem." > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 09:54:44 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 07:54:44 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Polish government to back investors in Lithuania nuclear plant Message-ID: <45EA7B44.2074.2CB393AA@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: Polish government to back investors in Lithuania nuclear plant German coalition split on nuclear energy withdrawal India planning to supply low-cost nuclear reactors to other countries Locals speak up for nuclear landfill The Issue: Florida Energy Fears over Torness safety Austria wants to assess possible suit over Temelin Czech nuke Entergy seeking leeway on new reactor --------------------------------------------------------------- Polish government to back investors in Lithuania nuclear plant 03 Mar 2007 (Bloomberg) bbj.hu - The Polish government agreed to support domestic companies willing to join a nuclear-power project in Lithuania to help diversify the region's energy sources and reduce dependence on Russia. Polish Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski and Lithuanian Prime Minister Gediminas Kirkilas signed an agreement in Warsaw last night which officially "expresses the political will" to build a nuclear power plant at Ignalina, Lithuania, the Polish government's press office said in a statement. The accord "gives the full support of the governments for companies planning to joint the project," the press office said. "This should also encourage our partners from Latvia and Estonia to give their go-ahead." Under the agreement drafted in December, Poland will take a 22% stake in the project, matched by Latvia and Estonia, while Lithuania will hold 34%. The EUR4 billion ($5.3 billion) power plant at Ignalina will have a capacity of as much as 1,600 megawatts. The new plant would be the biggest nuclear- power project in eastern Europe since the Czech Republic built a plant at Temelin, which began operating four years ago. Polskie Sieci Elektroenergetyczne SA, Poland's national power grid, plans to join the project, according to the company's December 8 statement. The Polish company will work on the project with Lithuania's AB Lietuvos Energija, Latvia's Latvenergo and Estonia's Eesti Energia. Poland is also still considering building its own nuclear plant, Kaczynski has said. -------------- German coalition split on nuclear energy withdrawal BERLIN (Reuters) Mar 4 - A split within Germany?s ruling coalition over the nation?s withdrawal from nuclear energy flared again on Sunday ahead of a European Union summit this week due to address climate change. Conservative Chancellor Angela Merkel, who will host the meeting in Brussels, favours extending the life of Germany?s nuclear plants, which account for a third of the country?s electricity supply. But she agreed in the coalition pact with the Social Democrats (SPD) in 2005 not to renege on a nuclear phase-out sealed under her predecessor, SPD Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. Conservative Economy Minister Michael Glos on Sunday sharply criticised a decision by SPD Environment Minister Sigmar Gabriel to prevent utility RWE RWEG.DE from extending the life of one of its nuclear plants. `With his attitude Environment Minister Gabriel is showing that leftist anti-nuclear ideology is more important to him than climate protection,? Glos was quoted as saying by the Bild am Sonntag newspaper. Glos has said nuclear power could help Germany reduce its dependence on energy imports from politically unstable regions and cut emissions of carbon dioxide blamed for climate change. A spokesman for Gabriel told Sunday?s Der Tagesspiegel newspaper: `We would find it helpful in the climate change discussion if all members of the cabinet stuck to an appropriate level of debate.? RWE wants to keep its Biblis A nuclear plant, Germany?s oldest, running until 2011, three years longer than agreed under the terms of the withdrawal. An RWE spokesman said on Friday the company had heard nothing about the government?s decision and an Environment Ministry spokesman said it would be communicated to the firm in the next two weeks. Former Chancellor Schroeder said on Sunday nuclear power was a dangerous and expensive energy source that caused long-term environmental damage and it should be quickly phased out. `It will not make any decisive contribution to solving our energy problems,? Schroeder wrote in a guest article for Swiss newspaper SonntagsBlick. Long-term strategy EU leaders are due to meet in Brussels on March 8-9 to agree a long- term energy strategy for the bloc. As holder of the EU?s rotating six- month presidency, Merkel will lead the talks. In a speech to the lower house of parliament last week, Merkel voiced support for European Commission proposals to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the 27-nation bloc by 20 percent by 2020 and by 30 percent if other big industrial nations join in. Merkel is hoping an environmental agreement within the EU can set the stage for a broader international consensus on combating climate change at a Group of Eight (G8) summit she will host in the Baltic resort town of Heiligendamm in June. However, France opposes a proposal to set a binding target for renewable energy sources, setting up a potential clash with Germany at the Brussels meeting. ------------- India planning to supply low-cost nuclear reactors to other countries by joining the NSG Mar 4 - India has not only stepped up its diplomacy with the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) countries to allow it to access civil nuclear technology and fuel but may also become a supplier of low-cost nuclear reactors to other countries by joining the NSG. India's nuclear establishment is riding high after the Kaiga 3 nuclear power reactor in Karnataka, developed by Indian engineers, achieved criticality early this week. The 220 MW pressurized heavy water reactor (PHWR) will start delivering power at the end of this month. Glowing in the success of this venture, Anil Kakodkar, chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission, has said that completing the nuclear power plant, along with low costs, in five years has set an international benchmark. Given the low costs - Rs 984 ($22.33) per installed KW - Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL) is now eyeing the export market for nuclear reactors. India is confident of exporting the design to countries like Cambodia, Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam for just Rs 1,200 ($27.24) per KW, which is substantially less than the international average of $1,500 per KW, a senior NPCIL official told IANS over the phone from Mumbai. ------------- Locals speak up for nuclear landfill Site provides funds for workers, schools SNELLING (AP) - In this rural county beset by high unemployment, the soon-to-arrive day when the local nuclear-waste landfill closes its doors to nearly all debris is no cause for celebration. Chem-Nuclear, a disposal site for low-level radioactive waste from hospitals and power plants around the nation, offers some of the county's few high-paying jobs, provides roughly 10 percent of its overall budget and pumps $1 million a year into local schools. It has also handed out college scholarships and bought equipment for police and paramedics. The landfill has long been under attack from environmentalists, and a 2000 state law says that starting next year it can accept waste only from South Carolina and two other states. But now, as that date draws near, lawmakers are considering extending the deadline to 2023. Locals say it is vital to change the law and that outsiders don't understand how important the landfill is. "It's been in Barnwell so long, it's part of who we are," said Berley Lindler, a jewelry shop owner in the nearby town of Barnwell. "It's good for the economy. They're our friends." About 23,300 people live in Barnwell County, about 55 miles from Columbia in the southwestern part of South Carolina, near the Georgia state line. The county has no rail lines or interstate access. Unemployment stands at 10 percent. In the past few years, hundreds of jobs in the county have vanished with the closing of a gas-grill maker and a window manufacturer. The biggest employer, the Dixie-Narco vending machine company, has cut about 1,400 jobs over the past several years and was bought out last year, said Keith Sloan, chairman of the County Council. "We've really taken some hits," he said. Nuclear power plant debris and radioactive hospital clothing have been buried here since 1971 atop aquifers that run to the Savannah River. In its heyday from 1980 to the early 1990s, Chem-Nuclear employed hundreds of people. In 1980, it collected 2.4 million cubic feet of the solid, radioactive waste, which is stored in steel containers that are put in concrete vaults and then buried in long trenches. Bought last year by Utah-based EnergySolutions, it is now one of three landfills in the nation for low-level radioactive waste. Utah and Washington have the others. The landfill was last cited by state environmental regulators in 1983 for improperly unloading a shipment. In 1999, tritium, a radioactive isotope of hydrogen, was found on the grounds of a church next to the landfill. The levels were below those accepted by regulators, but the company dug up and replaced the contaminated soil. A year later, then-Gov. Jim Hodges led a campaign to wean South Carolina off radioactive waste. From about 120 miles away, residents of wealthier Beaufort and Hilton Head, which get drinking water from the Savannah River, added to the outcry. State lawmakers passed a measure to slowly choke off the amount of waste that could be sent to the landfill. This year, the cap is 40,000 cubic feet of waste, or enough to cover a baseball infield to a depth of 5 feet. Plant manager Jim Lathan said restricting the waste to South Carolina, Connecticut and New Jersey means the landfill will run a deficit and will probably have to lay off some of the 51 workers who are left. Local impact What | A House subcommittee will begin hearings on a proposal by Rep. Billy Witherspoon, R-Conway, to allow the low-level nuclear waste facility at Barnwell to take refuse from all states for another 15 years. It was to close to all but South Carolina, New Jersey and Connecticut next year. When | Hearing will be at 2:30 p.m. Tuesday in Room 410, Blatt Building. ------------ The Issue: Florida Energy Issue: Florida's power needs are growing faster than its population. One of the most ominous indicators is a proposal by Florida Power & Light to build a $5.7 billion Glades Power Park, a coal-fired power plant in rural Glades County near Lake Okeechobee by 2012. Also in the works are other coal plants and even a nuclear-power plant. Led by Gov. Charlie Crist, lawmakers are pushing to develop alternative power sources to make Florida more energy independent. A special commission will propose new policies by the end of the year. Proposal: The Legislature this year plans to double the size of a $15 million alternative-energy grant program that was a prominent feature of the 2006 Energy Act, one that drew more than $200 million in requests for money to develop everything from exotic solar chips to electric generators spun by the Gulf Stream. Much of the $67 million in alternative-energy spending Crist has proposed would go for developing "biomass" fuels, turning agricultural products into fuel for cars and trucks. The House is also expected to propose a sweeping mandate to use bio-diesel fuel in government fleet vehicles. Environmentalists want more money invested in energy-saving programs. Outlook: The Legislature will put more money this year into alternative-energy programs, but with a budget squeeze, is not likely to fund all of the proposals. --------------- Fears over Torness safety MORE THAN 30 safety incidents were investigated at Torness nuclear power station in 2005, sparking fears about the reliability of the East Lothian plant. The list included four emergency shutdowns; plus incidents involving damaged or faulty safety equipment, and a "transformer fire". According to experts, some of the events had the potential to cause a radiation leak. A list of 33 incidents was released to Alan Beith, the Liberal Democrat MP for Berwick-upon-Tweed, last week. It coincides with a prolonged shutdown of Scotland's other nuclear power station at Hunterston in North Ayrshire due to boiler defects. advertisement"It's worrying," Beith said of the list. "You want the incidents to be reported and not covered up, but many people will be surprised to discovered that there were so many." According to independent nuclear engineer John Large, some of the incidents could have been serious. If undetected, they might have caused injury to workers or, in the worst circumstances, triggered a radiation release, he claimed. The list was provided by the UK trade and industry minister, Margaret Hodge, in response to a parliamentary question from Beith. But a spokeswoman for British Energy, the company that runs Torness, insisted that the incidents were all minor. She added: "As a nuclear operator aiming for high standards of safety, we have an open and transparent reporting culture." ---------------- Austria wants to assess possible suit over Temelin Czech nuke Linz- The Austrian government wants experts to assess the possibility to bring a lawsuit against the neighbouring Czech Republic over the alleged violation of the Melk agreements on the safety of the Temelin Czech nuclear power plant that Czech representatives have repeatedly dismissed, APA Austrian news agency reported today. Austrian Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer said that it is still open whether Austria would sue the Czech Republic or not. In the Melk agreement from 2000 the Czech Republic pledged to upgrade Temelin's safety in exchange for Austria's not blocking its then EU accession negotiations and preventing further blockades of borders by anti-atom opponents. The Austrian government today also supported the establishment of the Austrian-Czech parliamentary commission on Temelin, on which Gusenbauer agreed with Czech PM Mirek Topolanek during his visit to Prague last Tuesday, at a closed meeting in Linz today. Gusenbauer said that in his opinion the commission could make the debate on Temelin more constructive. APA writes that Gusenbauer criticised the blockades of Austrian-Czech border organised by the Austrian anti-atom association Atomstopp. Such blockades are a controversial step with regard to the fact that the border checks between both countries will disappear after the Czech Republic joins the Schengen area at the end the year, he added. Atomstopp announced in a press release today that if only an intra- parliamentary commission on Temelin were set up, the border blockades would continue. The activists will release more details on them next week. In the past few weeks, Austrian Temelin opponents gradually blocked one, two and three Czech-Austrian border crossings for one hour every Wednesday. They plan to block a total of four border crossings next week. Situated 60 kilometres from the borders of Austria and Bavaria, Temelin is sharply criticised by activists in Austria, Bavaria as well as the Czech Republic who say it is not safe because it combines Soviet design and western fuel and safety technology. These doubts were repeatedly dismissed by the Czech Republic. ------------- Entergy seeking leeway on new reactor Early ratepayer fees, limited reviews pushed At the urging of two Entergy subsidiaries, Louisiana's Public Service Commission may flip the regulatory process upside down to attract a $4 billion-plus nuclear reactor to the state. Under a rule that will be debated later this month by the PSC, Entergy Louisiana and Entergy Gulf States would start collecting millions of dollars from customers years before the reactor ever powers its first lightbulb. Entergy is also pushing the PSC to limit how much power the commission would have to review the plant's costs after it is built, thus limiting the ability of regulators to spot inappropriate costs that the utility might be trying to pass off on its customers. The changes, if approved, would be a drastic departure from regulatory practices in the 1980s that cost utilities building reactors billions of dollars in disallowed expenses. No company will build a reactor in Louisiana if the rules aren't changed, said Mike Twomey, vice president of regulatory affairs for Entergy Louisiana, which wants the reactor to go alongside the River Bend reactor at St. Francisville. The company, which also is considering a Mississippi site beside the Grand Gulf reactor at Port Gibson, will decide whether and where to build based, in large part, on which state comes up with the most favorable changes in the regulatory rules, Twomey said. "We're just asking that the Louisiana Public Service Commission . . . put Louisiana in the best position to attract investment in a nuclear power plant," Twomey said. "It's a little bit of a beauty pageant" between Mississippi and Louisiana. A group of large industrial energy users, including Occidental Chemical, opposes some of the regulatory changes Entergy wants. "Stripped of its linguistic trappings, Entergy's position is that the ratepayers' interest is served by having a new nuclear generating facility, regardless of whether the ultimate cost of such facility was reasonable," Occidental writes in its filings with the PSC. Filling a growing need Twomey said Entergy will have no problem meeting the first criterion of any regulatory process: establishing a need for the reactor. Electricity demand is growing in Louisiana, and Entergy must find a source to fill it. And nuclear power is usually the cheapest source of electricity, especially as plants age and building costs are paid off. Commissioners, in fact, wanted to explore the prospect of nuclear power to help reduce customer cost. "Louisiana has to do what it can do to explore new fuels," said Commissioner Lambert C. Boissiere III. "Nuclear looks like a very viable option." Assuming the PSC greenlights the project, Entergy would have to provide cost estimates for the plant during each of three phases: siting and licensing, design and development, and construction. Under the proposed rule, the PSC would have to agree to those costs estimates at the beginning of each phase and would periodically review them. After each phase, the PSC also would have the authority to conduct a prudency review, auditing Entergy's expenditures to determine whether they are fair and should be borne by customers. The reviews can be deeply expensive for a utility found to be imposing unfair charges on ratepayers. The first River Bend unit, built by Gulf States and later purchased by Entergy, was supposed to cost $307 million. By the time the plant started operating in 1985, the cost was $4.4 billion. The Public Service Commission, in a review, decided that Gulf States should have stopped building River Bend after the Three Mile Island accident and refused to allow Gulf States to charge its customers for $1.4 billion of the plant's cost. That scenario, Entergy argues, places too much risk on a utility and discourages development of a new nuclear plant. Limited reviews sought Entergy wants a prudency review to kick in only if there are cost overruns. "If we say we're going to build it for $4 billion, and we build it for $4 billion, we would recommend that the PSC not revisit" the plant costs, Twomey said. Opening up the review would create "too much opportunity for mischief by critics of the plant," he said. If the PSC does not limit a prudency review to cost overruns, Twomey said, the company would be hesitant to build a reactor in the state. "These rules as they currently stand do not send the proper signal," Twomey said. But Occidental and the Louisiana Energy Users Group, a consortium of industrial power users, insist that the PSC retain the right to do a full post-mortem on Entergy's costs, especially because no one has a firm grasp on how much a nuclear plant would cost. "We'll be working off estimates of things that haven't been built in 20 years. It's kind of the equivalent of a blank check, it just seems unreasonable," said Joe Marone, Occidental's director of power purchasing and chairman of the energy users group. At this point, commissioners don't appear inclined to give ground on their ability to conduct a prudency review. "The Constitution gives us that right, and we're not giving that away," said Commissioner Jay Blossman. The PSC staff is working with Entergy to tweak the language to make the company more comfortable with any review that would be done, he said. Customers pay upfront The rule would change the typical regulatory process in another big way: A company building a nuclear plant could collect money from customers before the plant is built. Usually, a company pays for the expenses upfront. Only after a prudency review would the PSC allow the company to pass on approved costs to customers. Under the rule being considered by the PSC, Entergy would be able to collect interest on the money it is spending on the project while the reactor is being built. Such an interest payment would be equivalent to the profit a company gets to tack onto all of its allowed expenses -- usually about 10 percent. It would amount to pennies a month for the typical customer during the licensing and design phases, but it could be several dollars a month per customer during the more expensive construction phase. Advertisement Prepayment of interest would benefit customers, Entergy says, because the revenue stream would be a signal to financial markets that the company is financially stable. That raises the utility's bond rating and keeps the cost of borrowing money in check. The bottom line: lower overall costs for customers, Twomey said. The prepayment also phases in the increase that will have to be paid once the plant is operating, said Lawrence "Tubby" St. Blanc, executive secretary of the PSC. "The rate shock is mitigated," he said. Entergy's need questioned Public Service Commissioner Foster Campbell said he doesn't think Entergy needs to start recovering costs before the plant is built. "They are a big company, they have great credit, they can borrow the money," he said. "Why don't they pay for it, get it built, and then we'll pay them back?" Fields also questioned whether Entergy needs to collect interest on its capital investment to maintain its credit status. "This is a very old problem," said Ken Rose, a senior fellow at the Institute of Public Utilities at Michigan State University. "There have always been large investments to build large power plants. It's an old issue how to handle those costs." Rose said such arrangements can be beneficial to customers, but the regulating body needs to keep a close watch on the plant's progress. The PSC set up a pre-collection mechanism for Cleco as it builds a $1 billion solid-fuel plant in Prairieville. The company is charging its customers about $5 a month for interest on the money it is using, said Robin Cooper, a spokeswoman for Cleco. In Cleco's case, such a structure was necessary to help the company balance its financial risk and keep down the cost of borrowing money. What's best for state? Twomey said his efforts are not just on Entergy's behalf. He sees himself as a "cheerleader" for Louisiana by pushing rules that will give Entergy the incentive to build the state's first new nuclear plant in 20 years. Other states, including Florida, Georgia and Indiana, have adopted similar rules to attract nuclear plants. While Entergy's application for a license to build a new reactor is further along for the Port Gibson site, Mississippi has not considered changing its regulatory process for cost recovery and won't do so this year. A new nuclear plant in Louisiana would mean an investment of $3 billion to $4 billion, 1,200 to 1,500 construction jobs and about 500 permanent jobs, Twomey said. But Marone said it wouldn't be a bad thing if Entergy chose Mississippi over Louisiana's St. Francisville site. "It may be better overall for Louisiana ratepayers. Mississippi ratepayers get all the risk, and Louisiana still gets most of any potential savings via the system agreement. It could be the best of both worlds for Louisiana," Marone said. Setig said setting out the rules will let the company and its customers know upfront what they are facing if Entergy decides to build in Louisiana. "If they chose to build their plant somewhere else maybe because the rules are too tough in Louisiana," he said, "that's fine." Blossman said he simply wants the commission to be able to choose whether a new nuclear plant would be a good investment for Louisiana. "Voting on the rule doesn't mean we're going to have a nuclear plant," Blossman said. "Voting on the rule just keeps us in the game." ---------------- There's change in the air at Drax Europe's biggest producer of coal-fired power is out to prove that it can clean up its act By Tim Webb Published: 04 March 2007 The politics of energy are shifting. Nuclear power companies used to be prime targets of the environmental lobby. But that was before the world began worrying about carbon emissions. Now, green protesters have turned their ire on the coal industry. Drax, the FTSE 100 company that owns the coal-fired power station of the same name in North Yorkshire, is very much at the top of their blacklist. It is the UK's largest power station of any kind, producing about 7 per cent of our electricity. It is also Europe's largest coal plant and the single biggest emitter of carbon dioxide in this country. Hundreds of eco-protesters converged on the power station in August to try to shut it down, the first large-scale action against the coal industry in Britain. At the time, a spokesman for the energy companies called them "daft, dangerous and misguided". But beyond that, the industry - traditionally publicity averse - made little response and was happy to let police deal with the matter. But now, in her first big interview since the protest, Dorothy Thompson, the only British woman serving as chief executive of a FTSE 100 company, explains how Drax is trying to clean up its image. She admits the coal industry has, in the past, been poor at communicating, particularly on green issues. "We think that probably we need to be a little more open about who we are and what we do." Thompson, 46, hits out at the protesters and environmentalists who want the UK's coal plants - which provide about 40 per cent of the country's electricity - closed down. "There are people who disapprove of me or other people in Drax because we work in coal generation. I struggle with that very strongly. I have problems with them attacking someone because they are providing what has been proved to be an essential service." And she reveals why last summer's protest - much to its organisers' chagrin - may have ended up doing the company a favour. Drax reports annual results this week. Analysts predict earnings of around ?580m, against ?239m in the previous year, thanks largely to the surge in power prices. Aside from strong numbers, Thompson will also announce Drax's ambitious target of sourcing 10 per cent of its fuel from biomass by 2009. Biomass can come from specially grown energy crops such as miscanthus (a tall grass), oil palms, willow and poplar trees or from bio-wastes such as sewage sludge or the mush left when olives are crushed to make olive oil. Drax is proposing to "co-fire" these biomass fuels with coal. To meet its 10 per cent target, it will require an estimated 1.5 million tons of biomass each year, says Thompson. The two types of biomass reduce carbon emissions in different ways. Energy crops remove as much carbon from the atmosphere while they're growing as they release when they're burnt, so their net contribution to atmospheric carbon is zero. Bio-wastes release their carbon into the air anyway when they biodegrade, so burning them instead produces extra energy at no extra carbon cost. In both cases, the amount of coal that has to be burned to get the same amount of energy is reduced. Drax estimates that if biomass were fully used by all Britain's modern coal plants, 21.5 million tons of carbon dioxide would be saved a year, or half the savings demanded from the power sector under the first phase of the EU emissions trading scheme. Biomass is already burnt in relatively small quantities by 16 coal- powered plants in the UK, including Drax. But co-firing has its drawbacks. Currently, the maximum amount of biomass that can be used in the fuel mix is 20 per cent. Beyond that, the plants become too clogged with ash. Depending on coal prices and the kind of biomass used, co-firing is two to three times more expensive than conventional coal-powered energy and needs government subsidy to make it viable. As with biofuels - energy crops mixed with petrol or diesel - there are concerns about the energy needed to grow, transport and manufacture the biomass. A recent report commissioned by the Government found that most biomass burnt in Britain is imported bio- waste rather than energy crops. Much of this waste comes from palm- oil plantations in Indonesia and Malaysia, involving the clearance of vast tracts of rainforest. Thompson, who has held the top job at Drax since the autumn of 2005, joining from fellow power generator InterGen, acknowledges these concerns but rules out making a commitment to buy biomass only from the UK, where its sustainability can be verified. Where possible, Drax will source its biomass at home, she says. But according to the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution, if wood chips, say, provided all the biomass needed for Britain's coal plants, seven million out of a total of 17 million hectares of agricultural land would be required to grow enough poplars and willows. Drax is still working out which type of biomass to use and where to get it from, Thompson admits. "I don't want to give everyone our secrets. We are more nervous about that than you think." Drax is spending ?100m installing more efficient blades on its turbines and is looking at whether the carbon released during generation can be captured and stored in nearby coal mines. But environmental campaigners are less than impressed with such efforts. They point out that, even if Drax uses 20 per cent biomass, it will still emit more carbon than modern gas plants. "Co-firing will just prolong the life of the coal industry," a Greenpeace spokesman says. Yet Thompson seems genuinely concerned about climate change. She was moved by Al Gore's eco-horror documentary, An Inconvenient Truth. "Who would have thought a movie about climate change would get two Oscars? You should see it." She concedes that coal is dirtier than any other form of power generation. But with old nuclear reactors coming to the end of their lives, it is hardly practical to close down Drax as the campaigners wish. Lakis Athanasiou, an analyst from Collins Stewart, says: "It's a bit daft of protesters to try to shut down the most efficient coal plant in the UK because it would result in much less efficient coal plants being used more to make up the shortfall." In fact, Thompson reckons, last summer's protest helped Drax to lobby for government support for co-firing and carbon capture and storage. "People's concerns with climate change echo our concern. Yes, they did us a favour in a back-handed way." She is astute enough to realise the protest is unlikely to be a one- off: "Whether they'll choose Drax as a venue [again] I don't know." Asked if she thinks that communicating with the public will make the company less of a target in the future, she concludes: "One can but hope." ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 11:23:11 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 10:23:11 -0700 Subject: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304095246.009fb9b0@mail.swcp.com> March 4 May I recommend "Dying to Win The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism," by Robert A. Pape (Random House, 2005). According to the dust jacket, "Every suicide terrorist campaign has had a clear goal that is secular and political: to compel a modern democracy to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland." Pape makes a strong case for this being true, (and not only among Islamic terrorists). On p. 243 he notes the increasing Muslim dislike of the United States, and on p. 244 says, "The underlying reason is not discontent with Western political or economic values, which are supported by majorities or near majorities in these [three] countries. Rather, the taproot is American military policy. Overwhelming majorities across a range of Muslim countries believe that the United States conquered Iraq to control its oil or to help Israel rather than to end terrorism or promote democracy, and fear that their country might be next." Pape provides survey data to support these assertions. See also p. 316, fn. 4 for a book Pape recommends that gives an "extensive evaluation of the growing resentment of American policies in numerous areas around the world." (I have only read Pape, not the book he recommends.) The solution is not more people snooping through travelers' luggage, not more Homeland "Security"/TSA goon squads, and not more x-ray scanners operated by higher-paid inspectors. It is to quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business. Don't we have enough problems at home to keep us busy? Please read Pape's book before you start flaming me. Thank you. If you don't have time to read it, please read five or more of the 38 reviews on Amazon.com, where it received 4 1/2 stars. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 11:09 PM 3/3/07 -0500, LNMolino at aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 3/3/2007 8:40:32 P.M. Central Standard Time, >crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: > >In time, this terrorism with pass, > >Please tell me you're not serious? "this terrorism" will likely be with us >for millenniums as it has in other parts of the world. We are in a >world where >one can get from any point on the planet to another point in mere hours if >not days. The spread of the threat is very real and will not just be gone and >it IS a RAD issue as some would seek to take the power of the atom to do >evil >deeds with and they would not hesitates in dying to do so hence WE should be >concerned about it. > >Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 11:27:47 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 10:27:47 -0700 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <005701c75e2c$c8196d30$0200a8c0@Shop> References: <339064.22578.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> March 4 Yes, we need to understand motive. If we don't understand motive we will never be able to devise an intellectually rigorous and philosophically sound solution. I believe it is known elsewhere as root cause analysis. Steven Dapra At 02:14 AM 3/4/07 -0500, Syd H. Levine wrote: >John: > >You wanted to know what I meant in my earlier email (which email did not >reach the list since I was on a different account), well you just stated >it succinctly. > >"Maybe if we understood their motivation, we could prevent future acts of >terrorism." > >Can you understand the killing of innocents no matter how oppressed the >offenders argue they may be? I hope you cannot. Subhuman is a figure of >speech of course, but if anything is subhuman behavior, it is terrorism. >Would you have argued we needed to understand motivation at Nuremburg? [edit] From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Sun Mar 4 12:45:57 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 19:45:57 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <000001c75e8d$5f7a2ab0$49197254@pc1> RADSAFErs, What has been during the last days and partly during the last weeks distributed on RADSAFE is not only unbelievable to a European with ties all over the world, but it is unacceptable to any person trying to promote international understanding, like I do and what in my opinion one of the not openly promoted goals of RADSAFE should be. I do not explicitely refer to the Nazi speak, which obviously continues, but I have recently several times stated that this list is an international one, but obviously some US hardliners still regard it as "their own", which can be clearly observed by the fact that postings, not fitting to their preconceived opinion are flamed. Therefore I am extremely grateful that (unfortunately only a few) scientists have found clear words against this fearmongering about hypothetical terrorist attacks which allows one country to treat airline passengers by the tens or hundreds of thousands or even millions like potential criminals and finally now "forcing" them to pose naked at check-in. ALARA is in this context a rather small point compared with the intrusion of the private sphere. We have had at RADSAFE during many years a large amount of contributions dealing with the extremely low probability of harm by DU, other discharges etc. I accept them all without any restriction. But then I may be allowed to ask about the probability of becoming a victim at an aeroplane, which has not checked passengers "parading" naked before boarding. ALARA means "as low as reasonably achievable" - many have obviously forgotten this meaning. Reasonably achievable is to prohibit any radiation application which does not pose any reasonable advantage - and the airport X-ray screening is in this category. Best regards, Franz (for all except Mr. Perle) Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA From lnmolino at aol.com Sun Mar 4 13:05:09 2007 From: lnmolino at aol.com (lnmolino at aol.com) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:05:09 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site Message-ID: <8C92CA729BBC1A2-12AC-AD85@WEBMAIL-MC14.sysops.aol.com> An interesting site but how accurate it is is a guess on my part. http://www.roadtechs.com/rpchron.htm -- Lou Molino, Sr. FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI >From the road some where ;) ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 13:12:27 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 11:12:27 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] A drug to fend off radiation Message-ID: <45EAA99B.16433.2D6899D3@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: A drug to fend off radiation Despite Bush warnings, U.S. ill-prepared for nuclear attack Fortunes rebound for Europe's last uranium mine Guv plans to cut off N-waste expansion Yucca Issue Presents Dilemma for Democrats ----------------------------------------- A drug to fend off radiation New Scientist news service Mar 4 - Emergency workers attending the scene of a "dirty" bomb or nuclear blast could soon have a drug to help protect them. People exposed to radioactive material often die weeks later of acute radiation syndrome, as blood cells vital to clotting and fighting infection die off, and bone marrow cells killed by radiation cannot replace them. There is currently no preventive treatment. Hollis-Eden Pharmaceuticals of San Diego, California, now reports that 5-androstenediol (AED), an adrenal gland hormone that stimulates marrow-cell growth, cuts the death rate among monkeys exposed to 6 grays of radiation - usually enough to kill 32 per cent of them - to 12 per cent, mainly by boosting blood platelets (International Immunopharmacology, vol 7, p 500). The 40 monkeys were given intramuscular injections of AED 4 hours after exposure and then once daily for five days. Hollis-Eden stressed no other treatments, such as blood transfusions - which are unlikely to be widely available after a mass-casualty attack - were administered. The results suggest AED, which has already passed initial safety tests in people, may even protect victims of a blast if administered quickly enough after exposure. Amid growing fears of terrorist attacks with radioactive materials, the US government plans to award a contract for the treatment for acute radiation syndrome later this month under its revamped BioShield fund for civilian defences against chemical, biological and nuclear threats. -------------- Despite Bush warnings, U.S. ill-prepared for nuclear attack WASHINGTON (McClatchy Washington Bureau) Mar 4 - Although the Bush administration has warned repeatedly about the threat of a terrorist nuclear attack and spent more than $300 billin to protect the homeland, the government remains ill-prepared to respond to a nuclear catastrophe. Experts and government documents suggest that, absent a major preparedness push, the U.S. response to a mushroom cloud could be worse than the debacle after Hurricane Katrina, possibly contributing to civil disorder and costing thousands of lives. ``The United States is unprepared to mitigate the consequences of a nuclear attack,'' Pentagon analyst John Brinkerhoff concluded in a July 31, 2005, draft of a confidential memo to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. ``We were unable to find any group or office with a coherent approach to this very important aspect of homeland security. ``This is a bad situation. The threat of a nuclear attack is real, and action is needed now to learn how to deal with one.'' Col. Jill Morgenthaler, Illinois' director of homeland security, said there's a ``disconnect'' between President Bush's and Vice President Dick Cheney's nuclear threat talk and the administration's actions. ``I don't see money being focused on actual response and mitigation to a nuclear threat,'' she said. Interviews by McClatchy Newspapers with more than 15 radiation and emergency preparedness experts and a review of internal documents revealed: o The government has yet to launch an educational program, akin to the Cold War-era civil defense campaign promoting fallout shelters, to teach Americans how to shield themselves from radiation, especially from the fallout plume, which could deposit deadly particles up to 100 miles from ground zero. o Analysts estimate that as many as 300,000 emergency workers would be needed after a nuclear attack, but predict that the radiation would scare many of them away from the disaster site. o Hospital emergency rooms wouldn't be able to handle the surge of people who were irradiated or the many more who feared they were. o Medical teams would have to improvise to treat what could be tens of thousands of burn victims because most cities have only one or two available burn-unit beds. Cham Dallas, director of the University of Georgia's Center for Mass Destruction Defense, called the predicament ``the worst link in our health care wall.'' o Several drugs are in development and one is especially promising, but the government hasn't acquired any significant new medicine to counteract radiation's devastating effects on victims' blood-forming bone marrow. Over the past three years, several federal agencies have taken some steps in nuclear disaster planning. The Department of Health and Human Services has drawn up ``playbooks'' for a range of attack scenarios and created a Web site to instruct emergency responders in treating radiation victims. The Energy Department's Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory is geared to use real-time weather data, within minutes of a bombing, to create a computer model that charts the likely path of a radioactive fallout plume so that the government can warn affected people to take shelter or evacuate. The government also has modeled likely effects in blast zones. Capt. Ann Knebel, the U.S. Public Health Service's deputy preparedness chief, said her agency is using the models to understand how many people in different zones would suffer from blast injuries, burns or radiation sickness ``and to begin to match our resources to the types of injuries.'' No matter how great the government's response, a nuclear bomb's toll would be staggering. The government's National Planning Scenario, which isn't public, projects that a relatively small, improvised 10-kiloton bomb could kill hundreds of thousands of people in a medium-sized city and cause hundreds of billions of dollars in economic losses. The document, last updated in April 2005, projects that a bomb detonated at ground level in Washington, D.C., would kill as many as 204,600 people, including many government officials, and would injure or sicken 90,800. Another 24,580 victims would die of radiation- related cancer in ensuing years. Radioactive debris would contaminate a 3,000-square-mile area, requiring years-long cleanup, it said. Brinkerhoff, author of the confidential memo for the Joint Chiefs, estimated that nearly 300,000 National Guard members, military reservists and civil emergency personnel would be needed to rescue, decontaminate, process and manage the 1.5 million evacuees. The job would include cordoning off the blast zone and manning a 200- mile perimeter around the fallout area to process and decontaminate victims, to turn others away from the danger and to maintain order. Brinkerhoff estimated that the military would need to provide 140,000 of the 300,000 responders, but doubted that the Pentagon would have that many. And the Public Health Service's Knebel cited studies suggesting that the ``fear factor'' would reduce civil emergency responders by more than 30 percent. Planning for an attack seems to evoke a sense of resignation among some officials. ``We are concerned about the catastrophic threats and are trying to improve our abilities for disasters,'' said Gerald Parker, a deputy assistant secretary in Health and Human Services' new Office of Preparedness and Response. ``But you have to look at what's pragmatic as well.'' Dr. Andrew Garrett, of Columbia University's National Center for Disaster Preparedness, put it this way: ``People are just very intimidated to take on the problem'' because ``there may not be apparent solutions right now.'' The U.S. intelligence community considers it a ``fairly remote'' possibility that terrorists will obtain weapons-grade plutonium or highly enriched uranium, which is more accessible, to build a nuclear weapon, said a senior intelligence official who requested anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information. The official said intelligence agencies worry mainly about a makeshift, radioactive ``dirty bomb'' that would kill at most a few hundred people, contaminate part of a city and spread panic. But concerns about a larger nuclear attack are increasing at a time when North Korea is testing atomic weapons and Iran is believed to be pursuing them. Al-Qaida's worldwide network of terrorists also reportedly has been reconstituted. The Sept. 11 commission's 2004 report rated a nuclear bombing as the most consequential threat facing the nation. ``We called for a maximum effort against the threat,'' Lee Hamilton, the panel's vice chairman, told McClatchy Newspapers. ``My impression is that we've got a long ways to go. . . . I just think it would overwhelm us.'' Dr. Ira Helfand, a Massachusetts emergency care doctor who co- authored a report on nuclear preparedness last year by the Physicians for Social Responsibility, chided the administration for trying ``to create a climate of fear rather than to identify a problem and address it.'' The doctors' group found the government ``dangerously unprepared'' for a nuclear attack. Government officials say they have drafted playbooks for every sort of radioactive attack, from a ``dirty bomb'' to a large, sophisticated device. But radiation experts and government memos emphasize the chaos that a bigger bomb could create. Emergency responders could face power outages, leaking gas lines, buckled bridges and tunnels, disrupted communications from the blast's electromagnetic pulse and streets clogged by vehicle crashes because motorists could be blinded by the bright flash accompanying detonation. No equipment exists to shield rescue teams from radiation, and survivors would face similar risks if they tried to walk to safety. Defense analyst Brinkerhoff proposed having troops gradually tighten the ring around the blast zone as the radiation diminished, but warned that the government lacks the hundreds of radiation meters needed to ensure that they wouldn't endanger themselves. He said those making rescue forays would need dosimeters to monitor their exposure. Emergency teams would have no quick test to determine the extent of survivors' radiation exposure. They would have to rely on tests for white blood cell declines or quiz people about their whereabouts during the blast and whether they had vomited. For those with potentially lethal acute radiation sickness, only limited medication is available, said Richard Hatchett, who is overseeing nearly $100 million in research on radiation countermeasures for the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases. The Department of Health and Human Services might commit to a limited purchase of one promising drug as early as this month. But currently, federal health officials plan to fly victims of acute radiation sickness to hospitals across the country for bone marrow transplants. The National Planning Scenario expressed concern that uninformed survivors of an attack could be lethally exposed to radiation because they failed to seek shelter, preferably in a sealed basement, for three to four days while radioactive debris decayed. Another big problem: Only a small percentage of Americans store bottled water, canned food and other essentials for an ordeal in a shelter. Helfand said it would be too late to help most people near the blast, but that advance education could save many people in the path of the fallout. Education is critical, he said, because attempting to evacuate could ``put you on a crowded freeway where you'll be stuck in traffic and get the maximum radiation exposure.'' California's emergency services chief, Henry Renteria, said it might be time ``to re-establish an urban area radiation shelter program.'' Brinkerhoff wrote that people could build their own radiation-proof shelters if the government engaged in ``large-scale civil defense planning'' and gave them meters and dosimeters to monitor the radiation. Since there hasn't been ``any enthusiasm to address this kind of preparedness,'' Brinkerhoff concluded, the only choice for most people would be to flee. ---------------- Fortunes rebound for Europe's last uranium mine DOLNI ROZINKA, Czech Republic (AFP) - Everything from the faded blue overalls donned by the miners to the bone-jolting trains and primitive extraction methods seem to cry out for Europe's last operating uranium mine to be turned into a museum. The Czech government would probably have closed the state-owned Rozna mine in 2004 if it had not been for the around 1,000 jobs at stake in the small towns and villages nestled in the hills of this relatively undeveloped south-east corner of the country. But last week, industry minister Martin Riman rejected a 640-million koruna (22.5-million euro) bid by Australian uranium mining company Uran Limited for a 50 percent stake in exploitation of current and future uranium reserves. And he held out the prospect of a new lease of life for the mine if research uncovers fresh reserves of the now coveted resource. "Uran's bid is interesting but we can mine and survey for reserves on our own," the minister announced. The Rozna mine has seen its fortunes improve as the price for uranium, used to feed nuclear reactors, soars on concerns about global warming and the cost and security of fossil fuel supplies, such as coal and oil. The price hit record highs in February after an eightfold increase over the last three years. It had barely budged during the previous decade. As a result, Rozna's previously loss-making annual production of around 300 tonnes of uranium now turns a profit. "There is about 0.25 percent of uranium in every tonne extracted compared with about 0.10 percent for similar operations in India. It is a very respectable quality," boasted chief engineer Petr Kriz. He admits conditions below ground for the 115 miners - the rest of the workforce are support staff and employed in processing and cleaning operations - appear primitive. Wire netting and rusting corrugated iron panels and air ducts cover the network of tunnels of the 24-floor complex. Engineers cut timber supports at the cramped faces where small teams of miners will work with the aid of hammer drills and a mechanical claw to pull rocks towards waiting wagons. The Australian company claimed modernisation could boost production and profits at Rozna but Kriz argued: "There is not much space, it is difficult to use other methods." The mine was opened in 1958 not for profit, but as part of the Cold War uranium mining boom when communist Czechoslovakia was one of the main suppliers of the Soviet military-industrial complex. It was one of half a dozen major uranium mines dotted across the country which sent 96,600 tonnes of uranium, currently valued at more than 470 billion koruna (16.7 billion euros), to the Soviet Union between 1945 and 1989. "At today's prices we can clearly realise what a fortune was sent by socialist Czechoslovakia almost free of charge to the Soviet Union," Riman commented dryly. In the early years of the Czechoslovak industry, the price of uranium mining was primarily human. German prisoners of war were used at first for the dangerous, radiation-exposed work. The communist regime, which seized power in 1948, later sent its political prisoners down the mines. Over 45,000 people were employed in uranium mining in 1954 with output and deliveries to the Soviet Union peaking at around 3,000 tonnes in 1961, just before the Cold War threatened to turn into a nuclear conflagration. In Rozna's drab offices, pictures charting the mine's achievements are written in both Czech and Russian, harking back to the brothers- in-arms production era. Today's managers stress that political prisoners were a feature of the earlier post-war mines, but not theirs. In the 1960's, the environment was mining's main casualty as heavily polluting chemical extraction methods were used at some locations. The massive, multi-billion koruna clean-up is likely to last another 40 years. When the Cold War ended, so did much of the exports. "The armaments race stopped and fuel for power plants started to be prepared from nuclear warheads with enormous reserves of this in Russia," recalls Jiri Jez, the head of state company Diamo, which runs Rozna. In the early 1990's, Czech mining plummeted to 20 percent of its average over the previous decade, Jez added. The 65-year-old, who has worked with the firm ever since starting out as a 17-year-old milling machine operator, now sees a uranium revival beckoning not only for Rozna but for other sites in the north and east of the country. -------------- Guv plans to cut off N-waste expansion Huntsman may bypass new legislation and ask regulatory group to cap material coming to Utah SNELLING, S.C. (The Salt Lake Tribune) Mar 4 - l debris is no cause for celebration. Chem-Nuclear, - In this rural county beset by high unemployment, the soon-to-arrive day when the local nuclear-waste landfill closes its doors to nearly ala disposal site for low-level radioactive waste from hospitals and power plants around the nation, offers some of the county's few high-paying jobs, provides roughly 10 percent of its overall budget and pumps $1 million a year into local schools. It has also handed out college scholarships and bought equipment for police and paramedics. The landfill has long been under attack from environmentalists, and a 2000 state law says that starting next year, it can accept waste only from South Carolina and two other states. But now, as that date draws near, lawmakers are considering extending the deadline to 2023. Locals say that changing the law is vital and that outsiders just don't understand how important the landfill is. In its heyday from 1980 to the early 1990s, Chem-Nuclear employed hundreds of people. In 1980, it collected 2.4 million cubic feet of the solid, radioactive waste, which is stored in steel containers that are put in concrete vaults and then buried in long trenches. Bought last year by Utah-based EnergySolutions, it is now one of three landfills in the nation for low-level radioactive waste. Utah and Washington have the others. Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. took blow after blow last week over his decision on a radioactive-waste oversight bill. Partisans on both sides used words like "wimp" and "coward" after he let SB155 go into law without his signature. Nuclear-waste company EnergySolutions congratulated itself and its friends in the Legislature for winning the latest round of Utah's waste wars. They had rolled the wildly popular governor and cleared the way for an expansion Huntsman vowed to block. Nuclear-waste opponents, revved by Huntsman's successful face-off over the federal government's Divine Strake, were bitterly disappointed he did not use a veto to make it clear, as he has said throughout his term, "our state will not become the dumping ground for other states' nuclear waste." Around 1,000 of them urged the governor to veto the bill. But, now that the fog of the 2007 Legislature has started to clear, it looks like Huntsman landed a sucker punch. He tucked a few lines in his SB155 announcement that basically say he will use another tool to rein in the nuclear-waste company. And, if he succeeds at capping waste coming to the company's mile-square landfill in Tooele County, EnergySolutions won't be open another 30 years, but maybe only a few. The move has the potential to ripple across a nation that has come to rely on Utah for affordable nuclear-waste disposal and to cripple a company built on 20-year contracts. "If Huntsman's good on his word," said Vanessa Pierce, executive director of the Healthy Environment Alliance of Utah, or HEAL, "then this is going to be a fight to determine who has the real power when it comes to nuclear waste: the governor or EnergySolutions." Neither the Governor's Office nor EnergySolutions is willing to publicly admit as much. Huntsman's regulatory and legal team is drafting a promised letter to the Northwest Interstate Compact on Low-level Radioactive Waste to seek its help in capping the waste allowed at the Utah site. In effect, he is using his role as a member of the federally established waste-control group to say "no" to further EnergySolutions expansion. Mike Mower, the governor's spokesman, declined to reveal what the letter will say or to predict how well the strategy would work. All Mower would say is, "Governor Huntsman is committed to keeping additional waste out of our state." EnergySolutions, the nation's largest nuclear-waste company, also had little to add. Greg Hopkins, vice president for public relations at the company, insists the company got what it wanted with the enactment of SB155. The bill protects his company from what other waste companies describe as an "intimidation provision," a section of Utah law that requires companies to receive the approval of local elected officials, the Legislature and the governor if they want to establish or greatly expand a waste site. "We're focused on maintaining our business and maintaining the path we've been on," said Hopkins, who used to be Huntsman's lead political fundraiser. Hopkins would not comment on whether EnergySolutions recognizes the cap Huntsman announced Tuesday. "We're not angry about it because we don't know what it means," he said. An answer to that could come in the next three months, when members of the Northwest Compact have their next meeting. The Northwest Compact is a radioactive-waste club with 11 member states, including Utah. Low-level radioactive waste produced within those states - in industry, medicine and research - all has a place to go, a disposal site in Richland, Wash. Commercial waste from outside the states is not allowed in. Congress set up this system in 1980 because the three states with disposal sites - Washington, South Carolina and Nevada - complained they had become the nation's radioactive-waste dumping grounds and they were tired of it. Although Congress carved up the states into 10 regions, only three regions established sites for their low-level radioactive waste. Nevada's site began leaking, and it was closed. But no new disposal was then built - until EnergySolutions, then called Envirocare of Utah, came along. In November 1991, Envirocare President Khosrow Semnani joined state Radiation Control Bureau Chief Larry Anderson in petitioning the Northwest Compact for permission to open the gates to Envirocare. And ever since, the Utah site has taken all but the hottest waste from outside the Northwest Compact. A few years later, Anderson and Semnani would be embroiled in a public extortion-bribery scandal that resulted in tax charges and fines for both and more than a year in federal prison for the retired regulator. And former Gov. Norm Bangerter, who was in office when Utah opened the gates for low-level waste, would repay a $65,000 personal loan that Semnani made to him shortly after he had left office. But Utah's oversight system for radioactive waste had been established. And, state regulators would grant more than 80 license changes at the site in its 19 years. The result: EnergySolutions has become the nation's biggest site, accepting all but a small fraction of the nation's low-level waste. More than 16.6 million cubic feet flowed to the Utah site last year through the Northwest Compact, including radiation-tainted dirt from government cleanups and commercial waste. Envirocare joined with lawmakers and the governor two years ago to ban the hotter Class B and C radioactive waste. But when the company announced plans to expand onto acreage adjoining its mile-square site, Huntsman said "no." The company's friends in the Legislature, determined to help a generous campaign contributor, passed a bill to take away the requirement that the governor approve new waste sites and expansions. But Huntsman vetoed the bill, and the veto held up. This year, with SB155, a veto-proof majority of the Legislature and the company insisted that political leaders need no say over what happens at the Tooele County site as long as it stays within current boundaries and as long as it takes only Class A waste. But, with one sentence in his SB155 announcement Tuesday, Huntsman asserted executive branch authority. Michael Garner, executive director of the Northwest Compact, would not predict what might happen when member-states consider Huntsman's request at their upcoming meeting. Pierce, the HEAL director, wondered aloud whether EnergySolutions would acknowledge the compact's authority and whether lawmakers would force the governor to let expansion continue at the Tooele County site without his interference. Her group has struggled, sometimes against the Huntsman administration's radiation regulators, to stanch the flow of waste to Utah. "We are cautiously hopeful that the governor is going to use every power at his disposal to limit the waste going" to the Utah site, she said. "If that sticks in the long term, it is more than we could have ever hoped for, but there are so many legal and political obstacles in the way." EnergySolutions could fight in court. Or it could take the fight all the way to Congress, where congressional representatives from 36 states might kill the compact system altogether to protect their access to nuclear disposal in Utah. "We could be gearing up," said Pierce, "to see a really nasty battle between EnergySolutions and the state." ---------------- Yucca Issue Presents Dilemma for Democrats: Candidates Can't Please Nevadans and S.C. Residents at Same Mar. 4--Democratic candidates need more than quarters to play the political slot machine that is Nevada's January 2008 caucus. They need to oppose opening a nuclear waste repository in the state. While pulling that lever might be a winner in Nevada, it's a clunker in South Carolina. Palmetto State residents and nuclear power officials long have expected to send tons of high-level waste from South Carolina to a site near Las Vegas. Next year's Democratic caucus in far-away Nevada -- the second of three critical, early tests of a candidate's strength -- increases the possibility that high-level nuclear waste currently being stored in South Carolina will remain here longer than planned. Most Nevadans are strongly opposed to a plan to open a national repository for waste at Yucca Mountain, a hollowed-out ridge about 100 miles northwest of Las Vegas. No Democratic candidate seems eager to tell Nevada voters Yucca should serve as a national repository. All have either voted against it or voiced concerns about the project. One candidate, former U.S. Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., recently changed his position on Yucca. He voted to move forward with the project five years ago but now says he opposes Yucca and believes waste should be stored at the facilities where it is produced. Half of the Republican candidates -- who don't face caucus voters in Nevada -- support opening Yucca and have voted to do so. A couple -- former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney -- would not say if they would open Yucca. The response of the Romney campaign to a pair of questions about Yucca and nuclear waste storage did not even include the word "Yucca." Without a national repository or some other means of handling high- level waste from spent fuel, hundreds of tons of waste, stored at various nuclear facilities in South Carolina, would remain here and would not be shipped to Yucca, as energy officials here have long expected. Skeptics wonder if Yucca ever will open, noting the project has endured nearly 30 years of study and stalls. holding on Nuclear facilities across the Palmetto State long have had to store their own waste. It is not known precisely how much is stored here. Officials have said the amounts are significant. --Savannah River Site, the state's most visible nuclear facility, has 36 million gallons of waste, said Julie Petersen, a spokeswoman for the Department of Energy. --A Jenkinsville nuclear facility operated by South Carolina Electric & Gas produces about 26 tons of waste every 18 months, said Robert Yanity, a public affairs official at SCANA, SCE&G's parent. --Progress Energy's nuclear plant in Hartsville has stored 194 metric tons of waste, according to Andy Cole, a communications specialist for the company. --Officials at Duke Energy, which operates five nuclear facilities in York and Oconee counties, cited security concerns in not revealing how much waste is stored at their plants. And as nuclear facilities here continue to run, they continue to produce more waste. Some nuclear power companies want to expand their facilities to meet what they believe will be a growing demand for energy that does not contribute to global warming. More nuclear power means more waste, however. Nuclear officials say waste in South Carolina is stored safely and their facilities have the capacity to continue storing waste for the short term. But they won't define "short term." A report last year from the U.S. Senate's Committee on Environment and Public Works estimated waste stored at nuclear plants across the country can be safely held there for 100 years. The problem is the federal government is breaking a promise to the nuclear industry and its bill-paying customers, said Progress spokesman Cole. Power companies and customers have paid hundreds of millions of dollars in fees to the federal government as part of a 1982 agreement that called for the construction of a national repository. Progress Energy's Hartsville plant has paid about $150 million over the past 25 years, Cole said. Power companies have sued the federal government over its failure to open a site. Some have settled claims for millions. However, the Senate report, compiled when Republicans held a majority, estimated the government's liability could reach $56 billion. "It costs us a lot of money to store spent fuel, and that cost is passed on to our customers," Cole said. "It's like paying your mortgage and renting your house at the same time." taking a risk Opponents of Yucca, however, question whether waste can be stored there safely. "As Energy secretary, I saw no convincing scientific evidence that Yucca Mountain was an appropriate site for high-level nuclear waste," said New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, the Democratic presidential candidate who was Energy Department secretary during the Clinton administration. "We learned rainwater travels from the surface down to the level where the waste would be stored much faster than anyone expected. That poses a risk that radiation could escape from Yucca Mountain and reach the aquifer below." While Richardson said he opposes Yucca, he did not kill the project when he was head of the Energy Department, a fact he will have to explain to Nevada voters. Yucca is a front-burner issue in Nevada, one of the first things candidates are asked about when they campaign in the state. Nuclear storage, though, does not generate the same passion in South Carolina. Some government officials in the state want to continue accepting low- level waste because it brings in revenue. But they and others want the high-level waste moved to Yucca. Nevadans remain fiercely opposed to having their state serve as, in their words, "the nation's nuclear dumping ground." Dina Titus, minority leader of Nevada's state senate, said Democratic presidential candidates have no chance of winning the Nevada caucus if they don't oppose Yucca. "You need to be able to do that for two reasons," said Titus, a Democrat who has taught political science at the University of Nevada- Las Vegas for 30 years. "First, there's popular opinion. Secondly, no leading political figures would endorse you if you don't oppose Yucca Mountain." Titus said caucus voters tend to be the most active members of their party -- and the most strongly opposed to Yucca. Still, supporting Yucca is apparently not a deathblow in a statewide general election in Nevada. Over the vociferous opposition of the state's political leadership, President George W. Bush signed a law in 2002 designating Yucca as a national repository. Two years later, he carried Nevada on his way to re-election. Democrats looking to win Nevada's caucus next year -- and grab momentum toward their party's nomination -- must grapple with the challenge of keeping voters in Nevada and South Carolina happy when many want a different outcome on the same issue. Edwards' change of heart on the issue illustrates the difficulty of that challenge. He is counting on success in his native state's primary, which follows Nevada by a week. Edwards has attempted to keep himself balanced on the political high wire stretching from the Palmetto State to Nevada. "To the extent possible, the waste should be stored where it's created and neither Nevada nor South Carolina should serve as the nation's dumping grounds," he said in a statement issued by his campaign. "Waste can be safely stored where it is produced while we develop a long-term solution that will not put anyone's health or safety at risk." ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From WesVanPelt at verizon.net Sun Mar 4 13:35:39 2007 From: WesVanPelt at verizon.net (Wes Van Pelt) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 14:35:39 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Radiation Detector Design In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F26A@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> References: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F26A@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <000c01c75e94$4b5438d0$e1fcaa70$@net> Radsafers, The article pasted below claims to announce a new type of radiation detector. Does anyone know the details? Wes New email address: ?WesVanPelt at verizon.net Best regards, Wes Wesley R. Van Pelt, PhD, CIH, CHP Wesley R. Van Pelt Associates, Inc. ? Positron Corporation (OTCBB: POSC) (the Company), a developer and manufacturer of Positron Emission Tomography (PET) medical devices, announced today that through its subsidiary developed intellectual property in the field of solid state photo detection and its applications. The Company has four patents pending covering the design and construction of medical diagnostic molecular imaging scanners and radiation detection scanners for homeland security with its new class of solid state photodetectors. The compact, low-cost photodetectors have increased sensitivity that can detect a single quantum of light and may significantly reduce the cost of future PET scanners while improving spatial resolution and portability. Solid state photodetectors are the key component in the development of compact organ-specific PET scanners and effective radiation detection devices for monitoring of radiation proliferation by parties unfriendly to national security interests. The Company's research and development projects were conducted at facilities across North America with the participation of a team of collaborating scientists directed by Dr. Irving Weinberg. Dr. Weinberg is Chief Scientific Officer of the Positron research and development subsidiary. The miniaturization afforded with this solid state photodetector technology is designed as the evolution of positron emission technologies that will enable the development of the next generation of efficient and economical full-body scanning devices, integrated PET/MRI scanners and the development of a single-use organ specific low-cost camera that can be disposed of after a single medical procedure. The homeland security application is based on the ability to build a small transportable device using the compact solid state technology to detect very low levels of radiation emitted by illicit radioactive materials from a distance. Dr. Irving Weinberg stated: "The solid state photodetectors will allow us to build radiation detection systems with high sensitivity. In new medical diagnostic nuclear imaging systems it will allow reduced patient radiation exposure because of lower radiopharmaceutical dosage, while in the homeland security application, a small radiation event can be detected from a substantial distance". From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 13:38:44 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 11:38:44 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site In-Reply-To: <8C92CA729BBC1A2-12AC-AD85@WEBMAIL-MC14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5B7@gdses.corp.gds.com> Louis, Looks like an excellent site for not only the roadtech, but also those interested in other radiation related topics. Another site that you may be interested in is http://www.nukeworker.com/ Regards, Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of lnmolino at aol.com Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 11:05 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site An interesting site but how accurate it is is a guess on my part. http://www.roadtechs.com/rpchron.htm -- Lou Molino, Sr. FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI >From the road some where ;) ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 15:01:05 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:01:05 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304095246.009fb9b0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5BC@gdses.corp.gds.com> Steven, Thank you for your references. I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we need to "quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business." Our government has done that way too often, attempting to instill our way of life on others, who will never do so. Cultures are different, history is different, and it's time our elected politicians follow the will of the people instead of trying to make a name for themselves, or, providing the very lobbyists and financial supporters who helped get them into office, wealthy and more powerful. The only disagreement I have with you and others who have stated that there is no need for additional security measures, that there is a paranoia about security, is to say that many of the terrorist groups have continued to state their fascination with terror through the use of airlines. This comes from their own documents and statements. The many terrorist groups are well funded, they individuals are well educated, they have demonstrated that they can plan extremely complicated plots, and, they have unbelievable patience. Yes, they will find kinks in the amour, but that doesn't mean that we should give up trying to outsmart them. The last factor is the human factor. When an individual is willing to give up their life for a cause that they strongly believe in, the task of thwarting their efforts is even more difficult. The so-called paranoia is also not just a USA delusion. Many of the European airports (and I am not talking just about terminals and gates that ultimately funnel passengers to the USA) each have their own x-ray scanning equipment at each gate in addition to the general security check-points. These are terminals and gates that only transport individuals within the EU for example, and throughout the orient as well. As far as the new body scanners, that too will not just be a USA option. Other countries will also be evaluating the pilot testing here, and will be installing these units their airports as well. We don't drive that, their concerns do. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- The solution is not more people snooping through travelers' luggage, not more Homeland "Security"/TSA goon squads, and not more x-ray scanners operated by higher-paid inspectors. It is to quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business. Don't we have enough problems at home to keep us busy? From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 15:26:37 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:26:37 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <000001c75e8d$5f7a2ab0$49197254@pc1> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> March 4 You are correct, Franz, in stating that "this list is an international one". I would like to hear something from Austria. Why don't you present a short discussion and assessment of the current state of ALARA in Austria. (I do not know how widespread ALARA is, and am assuming it is used in Austria.) You could tell us how Austrian regulators interpret and apply ALARA. You could explain what the nuclear industry thinks of the regulators, and of ALARA, and how the industry copes with both. That would be a good place to start. After that has been thrashed out, we could move on to ALARA in other European countries, and in the Scandanavian countries. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 15:40:38 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:40:38 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site In-Reply-To: <8C92CA729BBC1A2-12AC-AD85@WEBMAIL-MC14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304143703.009f60d0@mail.swcp.com> March 4 An interesting site, too be sure. How would one track down any of the claims? The compiler gives source material that is not connected with any specific claim. And how about this one: "1784 William Morgan unknowingly produces X-rays in experiment witnessed by Ben Franklin." X-rays with no electricity? Did Ben harness a bolt of lightning? Is this a joke? Inquiring minds want to know (heh, heh.) Steven Dapra At 02:05 PM 3/4/07 -0500, lnmolino at aol.com wrote: >An interesting site but how accurate it is is a guess on my part. > >http://www.roadtechs.com/rpchron.htm > >-- >Lou Molino, Sr. >FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > >>From the road some where ;) From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 15:59:43 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:59:43 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interesting site In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304143703.009f60d0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5BD@gdses.corp.gds.com> Good point! Perhaps a communication with Mr. Weaver would provide a basis and source of his information. >From the website: For an updated version contact the author at JEW1 at PGE.COM or phone (805) 545-3029 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- An interesting site, too be sure. How would one track down any of the claims? The compiler gives source material that is not connected with any specific claim. And how about this one: "1784 William Morgan unknowingly produces X-rays in experiment witnessed by Ben Franklin." X-rays with no electricity? Did Ben harness a bolt of lightning? Is this a joke? Inquiring minds want to know (heh, heh.) Steven Dapra From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 16:01:52 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 14:01:52 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site - sources In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304143703.009f60d0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5BE@gdses.corp.gds.com> Umm.. at he bottom of the website Mr. Weaver does provide a list of sources he used. However, to determine which source was used for which claim would be difficult at best, without some initial assistance from Mr. Weaver. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Steven Dapra Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 1:41 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site March 4 An interesting site, too be sure. How would one track down any of the claims? The compiler gives source material that is not connected with any specific claim. And how about this one: "1784 William Morgan unknowingly produces X-rays in experiment witnessed by Ben Franklin." X-rays with no electricity? Did Ben harness a bolt of lightning? Is this a joke? Inquiring minds want to know (heh, heh.) Steven Dapra At 02:05 PM 3/4/07 -0500, lnmolino at aol.com wrote: >An interesting site but how accurate it is is a guess on my part. > >http://www.roadtechs.com/rpchron.htm > >-- >Lou Molino, Sr. >FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > >>From the road some where ;) _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Sun Mar 4 16:03:39 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:03:39 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <1154CFFA1D5F4CF6B115D25C076D3F67@JohnPC> Steven, Franz and other "radsafers" Don't forget Canada John John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dapra" To: "Franz Sch?nhofer" ; Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE > March 4 > > You are correct, Franz, in stating that "this list is an > international one". I would like to hear something from Austria. Why > don't you present a short discussion and assessment of the current state > of ALARA in Austria. (I do not know how widespread ALARA is, and am > assuming it is used in Austria.) You could tell us how Austrian > regulators interpret and apply ALARA. You could explain what the nuclear > industry thinks of the regulators, and of ALARA, and how the industry > copes with both. That would be a good place to start. After that has > been thrashed out, we could move on to ALARA in other European countries, > and in the Scandanavian countries. > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 16:31:42 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:31:42 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE Message-ID: <1784313166-1173047486-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1419129115-@bxe002-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Hi John, Canada has a lot to offer. I communicate regularly with the CNSC and the NDR, and our annual dosimetry symposium has had the pleasure of their staff presenting on the accreditation process and the National Dose Registry. I hope to see more topics posted in response to Steve's excellent comments and request. Regards, Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 16:47:48 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:47:48 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <1154CFFA1D5F4CF6B115D25C076D3F67@JohnPC> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> March 4 Canada? What's that? (Har, har.) Okay, John, jump in. What's going in Canada (or at least in British Columbia) with ALARA? India? Pakistan? South Africa? Brazil? Mexico? This is an international list. Let's hear from everyone. (South Pole?) Steven Dapra At 02:03 PM 3/4/07 -0800, John R Johnson wrote: >Steven, Franz and other "radsafers" > >Don't forget Canada > >John > >John R Johnson >CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >(604) 222-9840 >idias at interchange.ubc.ca > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dapra" >To: "Franz Sch?nhofer" ; >Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 1:26 PM >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE > > >>March 4 >> >> You are correct, Franz, in stating that "this list is an >> international one". I would like to hear something from Austria. Why >> don't you present a short discussion and assessment of the current state >> of ALARA in Austria. (I do not know how widespread ALARA is, and am >> assuming it is used in Austria.) You could tell us how Austrian >> regulators interpret and apply ALARA. You could explain what the >> nuclear industry thinks of the regulators, and of ALARA, and how the >> industry copes with both. That would be a good place to start. After >> that has been thrashed out, we could move on to ALARA in other European >> countries, and in the Scandanavian countries. >> >>Steven Dapra >>sjd at swcp.com >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >>Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >>the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >>http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >>For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >>visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From srh at esper.com Sun Mar 4 17:45:28 2007 From: srh at esper.com (Shawn Hughes (Road2)) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 18:45:28 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Terror in the US & world at large Message-ID: <000001c75eb7$35e1e010$b8a290c6@LAPTOP2> "Security"/TSA goon squads" As a person peripherially in the Homeland Security Field, I have tried to stay clear of this discussion. I find it interesting that many of the professionals on this board grow quickly incensed when others outside of their profession start offering opinons on their field. Yet, many of you are doing the exact same thing right now to security professionals. In fact, to some of you we are no more than 'goons'. Are we goons when we find things capable of taking YOUR flight out of the sky? Are we goons when we develop new technology, maybe not THE answer, but at least showing we are making an effort to do something? Those of you that think "leaving them alone abroad" or similar pap are very, very ignorant of the past 100 years of terrorism. So that you can't say noone knowledgeable told you, there is a slowly coalescing group of people who want to kill you (yes, *you* ) based on no more than where your passport was issued. Remaining silent and impartial about events in SouthWest Asia makes as much sense as the US staying out of WWII. I realize this is a worldwide list. I assume by the responses there are few radiation professionals in Ireland and Botswana, because those people would tell you volumes about sticking your head in the sand as long as terrorism isn't affecting you on a personal level. I am disappointed by the lack of interest in security on this forum. All of you should understand, painfully, what happens when you have weak security and someone takes advantage of it. I'll return to lurking, because occasionally there is data here important to what I do. I remain, -Shawn +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Shawn R. Hughes Special Projects Consultant near Oak Ridge, Tennessee [suppressed] telephone srh at esper.com primary email [suppressed] fledgling webpage WARNING AND NOTICE: This email may contain privileged information. If it is not addressed to you by me, you do not have the right to read or use it. If you do not get a prompt reply to your email from me, it is because I have set filtering very high due to the age of my account. Please try an alternate form of messaging. UNCLASSIFIED END TEXT From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Sun Mar 4 17:56:58 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:56:58 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <0A3DA9AAD84543D380A3A82277A10F73@JohnPC> Steven The best place to find ALARA requirements in Canada is in G-129 Revision 1, 2004. It can be found at http://www.nuclearsafety.gc.ca/pubs_catalogue/uploads/G129rev1_e.pdf I looked in an old Worksafe BC requirement (from when they were called the WCB) called Part 7 that I have on my computer but could not find a reference to ALARA. My information was taken from http://www2.worksafebc.com/Publications/OHSRegulation/GuidelinePart7.asp#SectionNumber:G7.20(1)-1 Guidelines Part 7 - Division 3 - Radiation Exposure; downloaded on 03/02/06. I think that ALARA has been commonly considered in Canada, even when it was call ALAP, but did find that this was the case in the US when I worked there from 1988 to 1999. John John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Dapra To: John R Johnson ; radsafe at radlab.nl Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE March 4 Canada? What's that? (Har, har.) Okay, John, jump in. What's going in Canada (or at least in British Columbia) with ALARA? India? Pakistan? South Africa? Brazil? Mexico? This is an international list. Let's hear from everyone. (South Pole?) Steven Dapra At 02:03 PM 3/4/07 -0800, John R Johnson wrote: Steven, Franz and other "radsafers" Don't forget Canada John John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dapra" To: "Franz Sch?nhofer" ; Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE March 4 You are correct, Franz, in stating that "this list is an international one". I would like to hear something from Austria. Why don't you present a short discussion and assessment of the current state of ALARA in Austria. (I do not know how widespread ALARA is, and am assuming it is used in Austria.) You could tell us how Austrian regulators interpret and apply ALARA. You could explain what the nuclear industry thinks of the regulators, and of ALARA, and how the industry copes with both. That would be a good place to start. After that has been thrashed out, we could move on to ALARA in other European countries, and in the Scandanavian countries. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From syd.levine at mindspring.com Sun Mar 4 17:58:23 2007 From: syd.levine at mindspring.com (Syd H. Levine) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 18:58:23 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5BC@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> Somebody needs to stick their nose into a few folks' business. Are we proud we exercised restraint and allowed millions to be murdered by the Nazis before we decided to mind their business? What about Pol Pot; we sat idly by while millions were murdered because after Vietnam, it certainly was not politically expedient to get involved in that part of the world. Pol Pot appears to be second only to Hitler in the extermination of innocents. I suspect that someday, our involvement in the middle east right now may be viewed in a different light, whatever our ungrateful European friends may presently think. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Perle" To: "'Steven Dapra'" ; Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large Steven, Thank you for your references. I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we need to "quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business." Our government has done that way too often, attempting to instill our way of life on others, who will never do so. Cultures are different, history is different, and it's time our elected politicians follow the will of the people instead of trying to make a name for themselves, or, providing the very lobbyists and financial supporters who helped get them into office, wealthy and more powerful. The only disagreement I have with you and others who have stated that there is no need for additional security measures, that there is a paranoia about security, is to say that many of the terrorist groups have continued to state their fascination with terror through the use of airlines. This comes from their own documents and statements. The many terrorist groups are well funded, they individuals are well educated, they have demonstrated that they can plan extremely complicated plots, and, they have unbelievable patience. Yes, they will find kinks in the amour, but that doesn't mean that we should give up trying to outsmart them. The last factor is the human factor. When an individual is willing to give up their life for a cause that they strongly believe in, the task of thwarting their efforts is even more difficult. The so-called paranoia is also not just a USA delusion. Many of the European airports (and I am not talking just about terminals and gates that ultimately funnel passengers to the USA) each have their own x-ray scanning equipment at each gate in addition to the general security check-points. These are terminals and gates that only transport individuals within the EU for example, and throughout the orient as well. As far as the new body scanners, that too will not just be a USA option. Other countries will also be evaluating the pilot testing here, and will be installing these units their airports as well. We don't drive that, their concerns do. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- The solution is not more people snooping through travelers' luggage, not more Homeland "Security"/TSA goon squads, and not more x-ray scanners operated by higher-paid inspectors. It is to quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business. Don't we have enough problems at home to keep us busy? _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 4 18:35:40 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 00:35:40 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5BC@gdses.corp.gds.com> <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> Message-ID: <1964152151-1173054923-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-2004450991-@bxe056-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> The interventions Syd mentions were warranted. The USA should intervene where there is ethnic cleansing and genocide. We should be expending $$ to feed and defend those in Darfur and where others are suffering, including those here at home. Intervening in areas where we have observed faulty intelligence, and then adding other geographical areas based on the same "intelligence engine" is just not very smart. Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: "Syd H. Levine" Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 18:58:23 To:,"'Steven Dapra'" , Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large Somebody needs to stick their nose into a few folks' business. Are we proud we exercised restraint and allowed millions to be murdered by the Nazis before we decided to mind their business? What about Pol Pot; we sat idly by while millions were murdered because after Vietnam, it certainly was not politically expedient to get involved in that part of the world. Pol Pot appears to be second only to Hitler in the extermination of innocents. I suspect that someday, our involvement in the middle east right now may be viewed in a different light, whatever our ungrateful European friends may presently think. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Perle" To: "'Steven Dapra'" ; Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large Steven, Thank you for your references. I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we need to "quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business." Our government has done that way too often, attempting to instill our way of life on others, who will never do so. Cultures are different, history is different, and it's time our elected politicians follow the will of the people instead of trying to make a name for themselves, or, providing the very lobbyists and financial supporters who helped get them into office, wealthy and more powerful. The only disagreement I have with you and others who have stated that there is no need for additional security measures, that there is a paranoia about security, is to say that many of the terrorist groups have continued to state their fascination with terror through the use of airlines. This comes from their own documents and statements. The many terrorist groups are well funded, they individuals are well educated, they have demonstrated that they can plan extremely complicated plots, and, they have unbelievable patience. Yes, they will find kinks in the amour, but that doesn't mean that we should give up trying to outsmart them. The last factor is the human factor. When an individual is willing to give up their life for a cause that they strongly believe in, the task of thwarting their efforts is even more difficult. The so-called paranoia is also not just a USA delusion. Many of the European airports (and I am not talking just about terminals and gates that ultimately funnel passengers to the USA) each have their own x-ray scanning equipment at each gate in addition to the general security check-points. These are terminals and gates that only transport individuals within the EU for example, and throughout the orient as well. As far as the new body scanners, that too will not just be a USA option. Other countries will also be evaluating the pilot testing here, and will be installing these units their airports as well. We don't drive that, their concerns do. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- The solution is not more people snooping through travelers' luggage, not more Homeland "Security"/TSA goon squads, and not more x-ray scanners operated by higher-paid inspectors. It is to quit sticking our national nose into everyone else's business. Don't we have enough problems at home to keep us busy? _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From maurysis at peoplepc.com Sun Mar 4 18:39:37 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 18:39:37 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <45EB66C9.1080909@peoplepc.com> Having given the matter serious consideration (interrupted by 2.7 blizzards, the South Pole weekly mean, SD=0.3) and three conference calls with Dog, the Polar Bear & Penguin Association has elected to refrain from participating in this flap. They are apprehensive about Austria and Kashmir foreign service interventions to impose new ALARA interpretations. Tuvalu update will follow. Best wishes to all Nations, Dog&Maury (maurysis at peoplepc.com) _________________ Visit the South Pole; nary a tsunami in 3,456 years! ========================= Steven Dapra wrote: > March 4 > > Canada? What's that? (Har, har.) > > Okay, John, jump in. What's going in Canada (or at least in > British Columbia) with ALARA? > > India? Pakistan? South Africa? Brazil? Mexico? This is an > international list. Let's hear from everyone. (South Pole?) > > Steven Dapra -----------------snipped------------ From jk5554 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 4 20:14:31 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 18:14:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> Message-ID: <20070305021431.57129.qmail@web32510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What if, by some crazy fluke, the French nationalist Jean-Marie LePen were elected on April 22nd and he decided to stick his nose into *our* business? What if France finally got tired of being labeled as "ungrateful" and started standing up very strongly for itself - - and the target was the U.S.? Just a hypothesis that is hardly based on reality... If the U.S. wants to stick its nose into others' business too often, others will want to peek into our tent too. Sometimes, as in WWII, foreign intervention on the part of our country is necessary, but I think it's gone too far lately. I'd like to see our country reach out to at least the conservative parties in Europe like the CDU/CSU in Germany and the UMP in France. For the last few years, U.S. politicians have been bashing 'em all as "ungrateful" or as "socialists" -- with no recognition of the political spectrum that exists in Europe. Granted, the Socialist parties in Europe are pretty leftist, anti-business, and anti-nuclear. These guys do not represent the entirety of European public opinion. There are plenty of business-friendly politicians in Europe who would happily work with the U.S. if we stopped the Europe-bashing. However, the United States must acknowledge that hardly *any* Europeans, even on the Right, supported the Iraq war. ======== Context: I support French conservative Nicolas Sarkozy because he is a potential friend to Europe as well as the U.S., he supports of the French nuclear energy program, and because he's "tough on crime." The other French candidates including Socialist Segolene Royal and Rightist J.M. LePen are basically a joke because they're too extreme on the Left (Segolene Royal) or on the Right (J.M. LePen). ~Ruth http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/ --- "Syd H. Levine" wrote: > Somebody needs to stick their nose into a few folks' > business. Are we proud > we exercised restraint and allowed millions to be > murdered by the Nazis > before we decided to mind their business? What > about Pol Pot; we sat idly > by while millions were murdered because after > Vietnam, it certainly was not > politically expedient to get involved in that part > of the world. Pol Pot > appears to be second only to Hitler in the > extermination of innocents. I > suspect that someday, our involvement in the middle > east right now may be > viewed in a different light, whatever our ungrateful > European friends may > presently think. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandy Perle" > To: "'Steven Dapra'" ; > > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 4:01 PM > Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at > large > > > Steven, > > Thank you for your references. > > I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we > need to "quit sticking our > national nose into everyone else's business." Our > government has done that > way too often, attempting to instill our way of life > on others, who will > never do so. ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news From edaxon at satx.rr.com Sun Mar 4 20:26:39 2007 From: edaxon at satx.rr.com (Eric D) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 20:26:39 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <000001c75e8d$5f7a2ab0$49197254@pc1> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> <000001c75e8d$5f7a2ab0$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <002501c75ecd$b5200670$0b00a8c0@D8RSR871> Franz, I enjoy your perspective. The same argument is going on in the US. Is the tradeoff between personal privacy and reduction in terrorist threat worth it? Many in the US agree with your opinion. Respectfully, I do not. My wife agrees with you by the way. Here is my perspective. First, at this point the x-ray screening is done when the walk-through alarms. At this point the passenger is asked if they want a pat-down or to use the x-ray. This may change. Second, I believe the threat is real. I base this upon 9/11 and the recent publicized, defeated attempts to bomb planes with US passengers. I can only assume that others were stopped that are not read about and others were deterred because of the difficulty. The terrorist organization responsible for 9/11 has been at war with the US since the mid 80's. Third, in my opinion, this new technology is worth it from a privacy and ALARA perspective. I believe this because the evidence in my opinion still points to terrorists trying new methods to defeat our screening systems to bomb planes with US citizens aboard. This system is meant to fill a gap. Good thing about living in democratic societies, as most do, we can vote the "buggers" out of office who do not agree with us. I am interested in your perspective on the probability of terrorist threats. If you Email me directly. I would appreciate it. Eric Daxon -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Franz Sch?nhofer Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 12:46 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE RADSAFErs, What has been during the last days and partly during the last weeks distributed on RADSAFE is not only unbelievable to a European with ties all over the world, but it is unacceptable to any person trying to promote international understanding, like I do and what in my opinion one of the not openly promoted goals of RADSAFE should be. I do not explicitely refer to the Nazi speak, which obviously continues, but I have recently several times stated that this list is an international one, but obviously some US hardliners still regard it as "their own", which can be clearly observed by the fact that postings, not fitting to their preconceived opinion are flamed. Therefore I am extremely grateful that (unfortunately only a few) scientists have found clear words against this fearmongering about hypothetical terrorist attacks which allows one country to treat airline passengers by the tens or hundreds of thousands or even millions like potential criminals and finally now "forcing" them to pose naked at check-in. ALARA is in this context a rather small point compared with the intrusion of the private sphere. We have had at RADSAFE during many years a large amount of contributions dealing with the extremely low probability of harm by DU, other discharges etc. I accept them all without any restriction. But then I may be allowed to ask about the probability of becoming a victim at an aeroplane, which has not checked passengers "parading" naked before boarding. ALARA means "as low as reasonably achievable" - many have obviously forgotten this meaning. Reasonably achievable is to prohibit any radiation application which does not pose any reasonable advantage - and the airport X-ray screening is in this category. Best regards, Franz (for all except Mr. Perle) Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jk5554 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 4 21:06:07 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 19:06:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <002501c75ecd$b5200670$0b00a8c0@D8RSR871> Message-ID: <581557.35151.qm@web32504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I believe the 50 microrems or whatever it is from the x-ray screening is truly insignificant, especially when compared to normal variations in natural background. If I were that concerned about ALARA, I'd rush out of my mountain home to live in New Orleans - - until hurricane season! :-) ALARA should be interpreted *reasonably* using natural background variations for comparison. There is a difference of several tens of millirem/y between Denver and New Orleans or between Innsbruck and Hamburg because of terrain (granitic rock) and altitude. I am somewhat concerned about the privacy implications of the use of the x-ray because it "sees under clothes." However, I would much rather have the x-ray screening than a pat-down because the pat-down is more invasive and involves physical contact between screener and passenger. In my last message I expressed my opinion that U.S. intervention in Iraq has gone too far. However, I believe that there is definitely a threat from terrorism that is exacerbated by religious extremism, coupled with lack of economic opportunities in some parts of the Muslim world (cf. Sudan). The large oil revenues that have flowed from the U.S. and Europe to countries like Saudi Arabia have helped to fund Waha'abism, which is the strict branch of Islam of which some extremist sects have branched off to espouse jihad. Anything the West can do to secure energy independence will help it in the fight against terrorism. I mentioned Nicolas Sarkozy in my last email. I like his policies because he both supports France's nuclear energy program (as opposed to fossil fuel imports) and because he would be strict on illegal immigration into France (largely from Muslim countries). I believe that a policy of energy independence and control of one's own borders on the part of Europe and the United States is far more effective against terrorism than military aggression. That being said, there are times when measures like the "x-ray that sees under clothes" are necessary. ~Ruth --- Eric D wrote: > Franz, > > I enjoy your perspective. The same argument is > going on in the US. Is the > tradeoff between personal privacy and reduction in > terrorist threat worth > it? Many in the US agree with your opinion. > Respectfully, I do not. My > wife agrees with you by the way. > > Here is my perspective. First, at this point the > x-ray screening is done > when the walk-through alarms. At this point the > passenger is asked if they > want a pat-down or to use the x-ray. This may > change. >> .... Franz Schoenhofer wrote: > ALARA means "as low as reasonably achievable" - many > have obviously > forgotten this meaning. Reasonably achievable is to > prohibit any radiation > application which does not pose any reasonable > advantage - and the airport > X-ray screening is in this category. > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 21:30:48 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 20:30:48 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <000001c75eb7$35e1e010$b8a290c6@LAPTOP2> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304181828.009fb690@mail.swcp.com> March 4 Since the inception of Homeland Security/TSA I have read many stories in the popular press about their heavy-handed and tyrannical behavior, their bullying of passengers, pawing the heads of six-year-old girls (feeling for shoe bombs I suppose), and so forth. The aged and wheel-chair-bound mother-in-law of a personal friend of mine has been forced to partially undress by HS/TSA "inspectors" (or whatever sanitized label someone wants to use) before she is allowed on an airplane. I read a report of a passenger with metal in his body from surgical repairs who took x-rays with him to the airport and tried to show the "inspectors" the x-rays. The "inspectors" REFUSED to look at them. It's a long list of bad behavior. Shawn Hughes (SH) (see his complete message below) wrote: "Those of you that think 'leaving them alone abroad' or similar pap are very, very ignorant of the past 100 years of terrorism." This is false. I am not thinking "pap" and I am not "very, very ignorant" of 100 years of terrorism. (SH:) "Remaining silent and impartial about events in SouthWest Asia makes as much sense as the US staying out of WWII." You appear to be "very, very ignorant" of events leading up to US entry into WWII. Even establishment historians agree that the Roosevelt administration diligently tried to induce the Third Reich to attack the United States. They also acknowledge that FDR hounded and badgered Japan, behavior that led to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt's foreign policy got the US into World War II. SW Asia is well outside of our sphere of interest, plus our meddling is the cause of many of the "events" there. Since you are so hot to meddle, did you remain "silent and impartial" when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1979? The reason this "slowly coalescing group of people" wants to kill us is because we keep sticking our national nose in their business. If we go around sticking our nose in their business long enough we are going to get punched it that nose, and that is what happened on September 11. (Try reading Pape's book like I suggested.) Ireland and Botswana (and all other nations) are best qualified to solve their internal problems. We can't even stop drunk drivers, child molesters, and drug dealers in the US of A. What business do we have telling anyone else what to do? I don't think there is any "lack of interest in security on this forum" (i.e. RADSAFE). There are some differences about how to provide security, as well as some differences about the underlying reasons for our current predicament with airplane hijackers, explosive-laden human bombers, and suicide truck bombers. I reiterate emphatically that minding everyone's business but our own is guaranteed to get us more of the same. I'll go further and say people who believe in night stick, Taser, and gun barrel security are getting, (or already have) a case of tunnel vision that says security consists of bully-ragging people, ignoring their x-rays, threatening them, or dragging them off in handcuffs. A lot of this so-called security consists of shoving people around, and of treating the symptoms instead of the disease. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com Shawn Hughes wrote: As a person peripherially in the Homeland Security Field, I have tried to stay clear of this discussion. I find it interesting that many of the professionals on this board grow quickly incensed when others outside of their profession start offering opinons on their field. Yet, many of you are doing the exact same thing right now to security professionals. In fact, to some of you we are no more than 'goons'. Are we goons when we find things capable of taking YOUR flight out of the sky? Are we goons when we develop new technology, maybe not THE answer, but at least showing we are making an effort to do something? Those of you that think "leaving them alone abroad" or similar pap are very, very ignorant of the past 100 years of terrorism. So that you can't say noone knowledgeable told you, there is a slowly coalescing group of people who want to kill you (yes, *you* ) based on no more than where your passport was issued. Remaining silent and impartial about events in SouthWest Asia makes as much sense as the US staying out of WWII. I realize this is a worldwide list. I assume by the responses there are few radiation professionals in Ireland and Botswana, because those people would tell you volumes about sticking your head in the sand as long as terrorism isn't affecting you on a personal level. I am disappointed by the lack of interest in security on this forum. All of you should understand, painfully, what happens when you have weak security and someone takes advantage of it. I'll return to lurking, because occasionally there is data here important to what I do. I remain, -Shawn +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Shawn R. Hughes Special Projects Consultant near Oak Ridge, Tennessee [suppressed] telephone srh at esper.com primary email [suppressed] fledgling webpage WARNING AND NOTICE: This email may contain privileged information. If it is not addressed to you by me, you do not have the right to read or use it. If you do not get a prompt reply to your email from me, it is because I have set filtering very high due to the age of my account. Please try an alternate form of messaging. UNCLASSIFIED END TEXT From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 20:25:26 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 19:25:26 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <0A3DA9AAD84543D380A3A82277A10F73@JohnPC> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304102415.009ff0f0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070304154724.009f8080@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304191824.009f1550@mail.swcp.com> March 4 John: Thank you for posting these links. I was looking for descriptions of day-to-day activity on the ALARA front, such as how industry, hospitals, and commercial users cope with regulators. I am sure accounts of the public perception of regulators, regulations, and rad users would also be welcome to all. Steven At 03:56 PM 3/4/07 -0800, John R Johnson wrote: >Steven > >The best place to find ALARA requirements in Canada is in G-129 Revision >1, 2004. It can be found at >http://www.nuclearsafety.gc.ca/pubs_catalogue/uploads/G129rev1_e.pdf > >I looked in an old Worksafe BC requirement (from when they were called the >WCB) called Part 7 that I have on my computer but could not find a >reference to ALARA. My information was taken >from >http://www2.worksafebc.com/Publications/OHSRegulation/GuidelinePart7.asp#SectionNumber:G7.20(1)1 > > >Guidelines Part 7 - Division 3 - Radiation Exposure; downloaded on 03/02/06. > >I think that ALARA has been commonly considered in Canada, even when it >was call ALAP, but did find that this was the case in the US when I worked >there from 1988 to 1999. > >John > >John R Johnson >CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >Vancouver, B. C. >Canada >(604) 222-9840 >idias at interchange.ubc.ca [edit] From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 4 21:11:36 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 20:11:36 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5BC@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304192538.009ed130@mail.swcp.com> March 4 Are we proud we exercised restraint and allowed tens of millions to be killed by Communism in the USSR and Red China? No. Instead Roosevelt fawned and simpered over Stalin and FDR shoved through diplomatic relations with "Uncle Joe." Stalin's mass homicides and his show trials in the 1930s didn't interfere with FDR's love affair with Stalin, nor did they interfere with the same love affair of domestic left-wing extremists (who were so violently anti-fascist). In order of death toll, Mao Tse-tung was worst, followed by Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, and (probably) Pol Pot. Funny isn't it, how we continue to maintain diplomatic relations withour "ungrateful European friends." Steven Dapra At 06:58 PM 3/4/07 -0500, Syd H. Levine wrote: >Somebody needs to stick their nose into a few folks' business. Are we >proud we exercised restraint and allowed millions to be murdered by the >Nazis before we decided to mind their business? What about Pol Pot; we >sat idly by while millions were murdered because after Vietnam, it >certainly was not politically expedient to get involved in that part of >the world. Pol Pot appears to be second only to Hitler in the >extermination of innocents. I suspect that someday, our involvement in >the middle east right now may be viewed in a different light, whatever our >ungrateful European friends may presently think. > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Perle" >To: "'Steven Dapra'" ; >Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 4:01 PM >Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large > > >Steven, > >Thank you for your references. > >I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we need to "quit sticking our >national nose into everyone else's business." Our government has done that >way too often, attempting to instill our way of life on others, who will >never do so. Cultures are different, history is different, and it's time our >elected politicians follow the will of the people instead of trying to make >a name for themselves, or, providing the very lobbyists and financial >supporters who helped get them into office, wealthy and more powerful. [edit] From Pete_Bailey at fpl.com Mon Mar 5 07:51:50 2007 From: Pete_Bailey at fpl.com (Pete_Bailey at fpl.com) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:51:50 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Airport X-rays.... Message-ID: > Let's continue to > develop and implement new > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > never get there. There > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Ya know, the above phrase like the "anti-nukes" push against nuclear power . . . Spend lots of resources reducing an ever decreasing risk.... Oh, as for "I have no problem paying a little more on every ticket I purchase." With all due respects,,,"you" purchase or "the company you work for purchases"? you don't need to answer.... As a 'common consumer' , the gradual increase in cost of everything is narrowing my world of non-essential spending.... OK, gots to get back to Rad stuff.... From mborisky at arl.army.mil Mon Mar 5 08:13:37 2007 From: mborisky at arl.army.mil (Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:13:37 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> References: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Franz, I request once again that you "knock it off". You are in my opinion the only person on this list serve that makes inappropriate postings and creates problems. You seem to thrive on and enjoy conflict, and you use subtle and obvious techniques to generate it. Seems you are constantly looking for opportunities to make postings with obvious or subtle anti-US sentiments. I can assure you there are other quiet RADSAF members besides me that recognize your strategies and motives and don't appreciate it. I would recommend that you eliminate your kind sign offs with any reference to "kind regards" or "respect" as I, and venture to say others, see them as completely disingenuous. "Be nice" or please take your conflict elsewhere. And please leave Sandy and everyone else alone and don't instigate them into your arena of conflict and negativity. I am actually surprised that the moderator allows you to continue posting. Mike Borisky Army Research Lab -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Franz Sch?nhofer Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:55 PM To: 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental) Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Since I got tired of the subject I have not reacted to any message on that subject since a long time, but what I yesterday read in the discussion between John and Mr. Perle motivated me to plan to react tomorrow, because what is distributed by Mr. Perle is just hairraising. But his two last messages are so unacceptable that I write this comment now. All attempts to intimitate me and ridicule me are in vain, because such a character like Mr. Perle cannot insult me. John, you know that I always have esteemed your contributions I understand (I do not understand questions of epidemiology and similar ones). Now I have to congratulate you, because until now you are obviously the only US-citizen on RADSAFE to speak out clearly against this paranoid "safety thinking", which seems to be only used to intimitade people, subject them to humiliation (been shown naked on screens) and to undermine the human rights and of course to raise the profit of quite a few companies claiming that they manufacture instruments and devices for "safety". I know more than well, that these are not only my thoughts, but these are the thoughts of many million US-citizens and influential groups. Practically all of my US-friends and collegues are among them. So much now, but the main reason that I have not waited until tomorrow, is, that Mr. Perle used the expression "sub-human" before and even insisted on these words in his latest contribution. This is clearly Nazi-Speak - in German "Untermenschen", a label given by Nazi-Germany to non-arian people like all Slavs, including Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Czech, Slovenians, Serbs, Montenegrinians etc. etc., the Romas (gypsies), Arabs and especially Jews. (It is intersting that the Romas are genuine Arians.) I do not expect that Mr. Perle has ever been to Auschwitz or Majdanek or any of the other Nazi-extinction camps, where "sub-humans" were killed daily by the thousands or rather tens of thousands like insects by using hydrogen cyanide. I have been there and therefore I am more than allergic for such words. Now I ask whether RADSAFE is the right place to use Nazi-speak. Another US citizen has been banned many years ago from the list, because he was calling an international organisation for "Gestapo". It seems that this expression throws a light on Mr. Perles character. More light I'll shed on him and his queer opinions tomorrow (like "he" wants to be safe on flights and therefore everybody else has to undergo humiliating procedures, not raising at all safety and security). It is half past midnight and again I will go to sleep. The most recent attempt to insult me by Mr. Perle on 15 Feb. is ridiculous: I will not take an aspirin, because I take it everyday in the morning according to my doctors advice. I do not take something called "Luvox". I do not even know what it is, but this only confirms that Mr. Perle is of the opinion that everybody in this world should know US-brandnames and in a broader view succumb to any US interest and request. Since I might concede that Mr. Perle might be aware, that an Austrian does not know "Luvox" I take the alternative conclusion that he was writing this for the US-market of his company. Again, John, my deepest respect. Mr. Perle, please never adress me personally again. Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Sandy Perle Gesendet: Freitag, 02. M?rz 2007 23:18 An: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE From frantaj at aecl.ca Mon Mar 5 09:30:20 2007 From: frantaj at aecl.ca (Franta, Jaroslav) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:30:20 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] radiation fear strikes again ? Message-ID: <0F8BD87EE693D411A1A500508BAC86F70B4F5B27@sps13.aecl.ca> Pluto Team Practices at Jupiter Aviation Week & Space Technology, 03/05/2007, page 31 Frank Morring, Jr., Columbia, Md. Lessons from last week's encounter are already being applied as the 1,000-lb. nuclear-powered spacecraft hurtles down Jupiter's magnetotail, the leeward stream of charged solar-wind particles escaping the planet's magnetic field. Minutes after contollers at The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) here confirmed that New Horizons had passed its closest approach to the planet Feb. 28 without apparent radiation damage, they began resetting the automatic-safeing parameters on one instrument to higher radiation levels. The ultraviolet imaging spectrometer--Alice--kicked off needlessly during the approach to the planet, costing star-occultation data on the atmospheres of some of Jupiter's moons. "We should never have trip wires and set points for safety lower than they need to be," says New Horizons Principal Investigator Alan Stern. "We sort of stubbed our toe by not thinking it through well enough." http://www.aviationweek.com/media/images/awst_images/large/AW_03_05_2007_104 6_L.jpg Closeup of Jupiter's "Little Red Spot" from the New Horizons spacecraft, which used a Feb. 28 flyby to practice for its 2015 encounter with Pluto.Credit: NASA/APL/SwRI CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVILEGED INFORMATION NOTICE This e-mail, and any attachments, may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright, or exempt from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, disclosure, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or reliance on this information may be unlawful and is strictly prohibited. AVIS D'INFORMATION CONFIDENTIELLE ET PRIVIL?GI?E Le pr?sent courriel, et toute pi?ce jointe, peut contenir de l'information qui est confidentielle, r?gie par les droits d'auteur, ou interdite de divulgation. Tout examen, divulgation, retransmission, diffusion ou autres utilisations non autoris?es de l'information ou d?pendance non autoris?e envers celle-ci peut ?tre ill?gale et est strictement interdite. From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 09:39:57 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 07:39:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <719258.1767.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Louis, You are correct. I should have said that "this new wave of terrorism will pass and be replace by another." At the beginnning of the 20th century, Anarchism was the new terrorism. It will be replaced by a new one. One can even argue that the treat of nuclear warfare was a form of terrorism, which is why it was called MAD. http://www.state.de.us/cjc/terrorism/history.shtml --- LNMolino at aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/3/2007 8:40:32 P.M. Central > Standard Time, > crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: > > In time, this terrorism with pass, > > > Please tell me you're not serious? "this terrorism" > will likely be with us > for millenniums as it has in other parts of the > world. We are in a world where > one can get from any point on the planet to another > point in mere hours if > not days. The spread of the threat is very real and > will not just be gone and > it IS a RAD issue as some would seek to take the > power of the atom to do evil > deeds with and they would not hesitates in dying to > do so hence WE should be > concerned about it. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire > Protection Consultant > LNMolino at aol.com > > 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) > 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) > 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) > > "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" > > "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss > events; Small minds > discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & > reformer (1884 - 1962) > > The comments contained in this E-mail are the > opinions of the author and the > author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for > any person or > organization that I am in any way whatsoever > involved or associated with unless I > specifically state that I am doing so. Further this > E-mail is intended only for its > stated recipient and may contain private and or > confidential materials > retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed > in the public domain by the > original author. +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 09:59:27 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:59:27 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power Message-ID: <45EBCDDF.29309.33F573@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power Aussies embrace nuclear power: poll Switkowski appointment shows Govt's nuclear plans: Greenpeace 'Dirty bomb' danger very real Report: Nuclear workers radiation claims panel beset by conflicts China signs agreement on nuclear island purchase Shanghai NTPC board approves foray into nuclear power Vilnius signs nuclear plant agreement with Warsaw ---------------------------------------------------------- EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power BRUSSELS -(Dow Jones) Mar 5 - Concerns about possible accidents and radioactive waste have pushed 61% of European Union citizens to say they want the bloc to use less nuclear power, an E.U. survey showed Monday. At the same time, a majority of survey respondents said they were concerned about climate change, which they attribute to the consumption of fossil fuels. Nuclear power is a contentious issue in Europe. While E.U. officials acknowledge it is one of the cheapest sources of low carbon energy, they are unwilling to push for more reactors. Finland and France are unabashedly pro-nuclear and building new reactors. Other countries, such as Austria and Germany, oppose nuclear energy. Instead of turning to nuclear power, E.U. officials are pushing fuel sources such as wind turbines and solar panels. Clean coal technology is also slated to be installed in the E.U. by 2020. ---------------- Aussies embrace nuclear power: poll (Daily Telegraph) Mar 6 - CONCERNS about climate change have swung Australian opinion in favour of nuclear power for the first time, a poll shows. A Newspoll published in today's The Australian newspaper reveals support for nuclear power has surged 10 percentage points to 45 per cent in four months, outstripping opposition, which has plummeted 10 points to 40 per cent. But a vast majority - 66 per cent - are against having a nuclear power station in their local area. The key to the shift appears to have been Prime Minister John Howard's repeatedly linking nuclear power to strategies for the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, the newspaper reports. The survey asked whether respondents supported the development of nuclear power industry in Australia as one of a range of energy solutions to help reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and whether they would personally be in favour or against a nuclear power station being built in your local area. ---------------- Switkowski appointment shows Govt's nuclear plans: Greenpeace Greenpeace says the appointment of Ziggy Switkowski as the chairman of the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation (ANSTO) confirms that the Federal Government plans to introduce nuclear power. Dr Switkowski was appointed to the board of ANSTO last year, but stood aside after he became the head of the Prime Minister's inquiry into the viability of nuclear energy. Dr Switkowski told ABC radio today ANSTO is well advanced in research into all aspects of the nuclear cycle. Greenpeace's energy adviser Paul Cleary says that backs up his assessment. "It's essentially the only place of nuclear expertise in Australia," he said. "It claims that it is only there to produce medical isotopes, but in fact ANSTO is actually doing a lot more than that. "It's already producing the silex technology which can basically be used for making backyard weapons if it falls into the wrong hands." Dr Switkowski says the introduction of nuclear power will be not be integral to his role at ANSTO. "There's no doubt that coming out of the nuclear review that one does form opinions about the applicability of nuclear power in Australia's strategic thinking," he said. "Particularly in a future where greenhouse gas abatement is going to be a bit of a priority. "But that doesn't translate into an agenda, and my personal goal will be to facilitate informed debate." ---------------- 'Dirty bomb' danger very real (South Bend Tribune) OUR OPINION Mar 5 - Radioactive "dirty bombs" are nightmares that haven't come true. But they could. The raw material to make dirty bombs is abundant. The price is right. And, disturbingly, not nearly enough is being done to keep potential bomb components out of the hands of terrorists. We hope that with increased awareness that will change. A story in the Feb. 15 Chicago Tribune by foreign correspondent Alex Rodriguez explained the threat in chilling detail. Dirty bombs use conventional explosives, such as dynamite, to spread radioactive material over a small area, perhaps several city blocks. Where would the radioactive material come from? It exists throughout the former Soviet Union republics in abundance, most often in forms not intended for use in weapons. Obtaining it can be as easy as picking it up and walking away with it. Radioactive substances often are kept in unsecured places. Much has been accomplished in the continuing effort to dismantle nuclear weapons in the former Soviet republics. Credit is due Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and former Sen. Sam Nunn, D-Ga., for the Cooperative Threat Reduction Act. It has led to the elimination of more than 6,000 nuclear warheads. Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan are nuclear weapon-free because of the effort. The dirty bomb threat is a different problem -- but one that needs to be approached with the same determination. According to the Chicago Tribune report, from 1993 to 2004 there were 662 confirmed cases of radioactive materials smuggling worldwide, more than 400 of them involving materials suitable for use in dirty bombs. And those are just the ones officials know about. The materials of concern usually are plutonium and uranium waste, strontium-90 and cesium-137. Where are they found? In Russia alone, according to the report, strontium-90 powers more than 600 radioisotope thermoelectric generators, or RTGs. There are RTGs in dozens of lighthouses situated along the Barent Sea -- many of them not protected by so much as a chainlink fence. Each RTG contains enough strontium-90 to make about 40 dirty bombs. The nation of Kazakhstan has used more than $20 million provided by the United States to seal up tunnels in which Soviet nuclear weapons tests once were conducted. The concrete seals haven't kept out scrap metal hunters who use homemade explosives to enter the tunnels. Inside, along with iron, are huge quantities of cesium, plutonium, uranium and strontium waste from 458 Cold War-era nuclear tests. Then, the Chicago Tribune report continues, there are the canisters of cesium-137 that frequently are found at abandoned former Soviet military bases in Georgia. And let's not forget the physics institute in Abkhazia, with its storehouse of plutonium, uranium and other radioactive substances. It fell into the hands of Abkhaz separatists when they drove the Georgian military out during a 1992 civil war. Georgian authorities don't know what has become of the deadly substances. So far, the United States has spent $178 million to provide radiation detection equipment to other countries -- many of them the former Soviet republics. The aim is to prevent smuggling. The republics' governments, by and large, are cooperative with efforts to remove, secure or intercept dangerous materials. But in environments of poverty and corruption, the problem is far from solved. Meanwhile, here at home, the Government Accountability Office predicts that the Department of Homeland Security will miss by about five years its 2009 deadline to install 3,000 radiation detection units at key U.S. entry points. The dirty bomb threat ought to be a very high priority for the United States and our allies. The goals -- to help other countries clean up radioactive materials, and to keep them out of this country -- are clear. Dirty bombs are a real, low-tech, highly dangerous threat. Detection equipment at entry points, and a trained, well-equipped reaction force, should be a high priority. We urge our congressional delegation to support legislation to make it so. ---------------- Report: Nuclear workers radiation claims panel beset by conflicts Feb 26 - A government watchdog says a panel set up to review payments to ailing nuclear weapons workers lacks credibility and is beset by conflicts of interest. That's what the head of the Nuclear Oversight Program for the Government Accountability Project is telling the Las Vegas Review- Journal. He says panelists on the Advisory Board on Radiation and Worker Health have too many ties to past employers and associates at the Energy Department. A proposal by Democratic Senator Harry Reid could correct some problems by giving claimants so-called "Special Cohort Status" and lowering their burden of proof to collect payments. Reid introduced a bill this month to expand coverage to everyone who worked at the Nevada Test Site between 1951 and 1993 -- regardless of how many days or hours they were there. -------------- China signs agreement on nuclear island purchase Shanghai March 5. INTERFAX-CHINA - China's State Nuclear Power Technology Corporation signed an agreement with Westinghouse on the purchase of nuclear island technology, the official Xinhua news agency reported. The two parties reached consensus on the construction period, equipment to be supplied and price. As a result, Westinghouse's AP1000 reactors will likely be applied in two new nuclear power plants in Sanmen of Zhejiang Province and Haiyang of Shandong Province. China started bidding for the third-generation of nuclear power technology since 2003, and China and the US signed an MOU last December on the transfer of pressure water reactor technology. The two companies estimate that an official contract will be signed before the end of this May. --------------- NTPC board approves foray into nuclear power MUMBAI: (Hindu Business) Mar 5 NTPC Ltd, the country's largest power utility, on Monday said its board of directors has approved a proposal to enable the company to foray into the nuclear power generation business. The board has given its clearance to the amendment of the object clause of the memorandum of association, NTPC informed the Bombay Stock Exchange. The company's shareholders would consider the proposal at a later date, it said. NTPC envisages generating 2,000 MW from atomic power by the end of 2017. At present, state-run Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd is the only company in the sector. The state-owned company has also appointed former Atomic Energy Commission secretary Mr S Rajgopal and former executive director of NPCIL Mr V K Kaushik as consultants to prepare a strategy for its proposed foray. India has an installed nuclear power capacity of about 3,200 MW, less than three per cent of the total generation capacity. The Government plans to add fresh capacity of 3,100 MW nuclear energy by the end of the 11th plan (2011-12), which will be further increased during the 12th plan. - PTI ----------------- Vilnius signs nuclear plant agreement with Warsaw (Baltic Times) Mar 5 - The prime ministers of Lithuania and Poland have signed a political agreement on the building of new nuclear reactors in Lithuania. The government leaders, Gediminas Kirkilas and Jaroslaw Kaczynski, also agreed to explore the possibilities of connecting their gas transportation grids, and urged Germany to develop a uniform European Union energy policy. The agreement highlights the significance of cooperation between Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia to build a new nuclear plant, which will now also involve the Polish power company Polskie Sieci Elektroenergetyczne (PSE). Lithuania and Poland also confirmed their intentions to speed up the building of bilateral power bridge and invited Estonia's and Latvia's energy companies to join the project. Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 10:24:18 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:24:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags In-Reply-To: <005701c75e2c$c8196d30$0200a8c0@Shop> Message-ID: <341167.18767.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Syd, The nature of terrorism requires the taking of innocent lives. I am sure that you heard that the terrorist of Sept 11 were indoctrinated into accepting that any American was their enemy. But why did they believe so? Can we change their attitudes to us? Can we change our attitudes toward that part of the world? During WWII it was the policies of the Allies to destroy industries and cities where workers lived to instill fear in the civilians. Were the children killed innocent? By Nuremberg, I assume that you are referring to the Nuremberg Code. The basis was racism and eugenics, which was not only practices by the Nazises, but the Japanses and in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics --- "Syd H. Levine" wrote: > John: > > You wanted to know what I meant in my earlier email > (which email did not > reach the list since I was on a different account), > well you just stated it > succinctly. > > "Maybe if we understood their motivation, we could > prevent future acts of > terrorism." > > Can you understand the killing of innocents no > matter how oppressed the > offenders argue they may be? I hope you cannot. > Subhuman is a figure of > speech of course, but if anything is subhuman > behavior, it is terrorism. > Would you have argued we needed to understand > motivation at Nuremburg? > > Syd H. Levine > AnaLog Services, Inc. > Phone: 270-276-5671 > Telefax: 270-276-5588 > E-mail: analog at logwell.com > URL: www.logwell.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Jacobus" > To: ; > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 10:51 PM > Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just > Bags > > > > Sandy, > > The terrorists of Sept 11 were murderers, but they > > were not sub-human. They were educated, and were > > human like us. I do not know if they had souls, > but > > apparently you do. > > > > I certainly do not condone their actions, but as > an > > American, I can certainly question what you say, > and > > what our country/government does. Flammatory > retoric > > may impress some people, but distracts from the > real > > issue of why they did what they did. Maybe if we > > understood their motivation, we could prevent > future > > acts of terrorism. > > > > You certainly not the sole decider of what is > posted > > on this list server. While you cannot accept the > fact > > that others may disagree with you, some of us do. > > > > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > >> John, > >> > >> Your comment regarding the 9/11 murders, > questioning > >> an American who believes that this type of a > person, > >> not a Nationality or condemnation of a group, but > a > >> statement of fact that any individual who can > murder > >> thousands of innocent individuals, is simply > >> amazing. Your comment is akin to blaming society > for > >> this murderous act. Instead of making statements > >> that imply acceptance of this despicable act, as > >> well as every suicide attack, wherever it occurs, > >> you should condem them, and accept the fact that > >> anyone who can do this in the name of whatever > God > >> they think condones their mass murder, that they > are > >> sub-human, without a soul, period. > >> > >> > >> Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: John Jacobus > >> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:26:51 > >> To:sandyfl at cox.net, radsafe at radlab.nl > >> Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport > X-Rays > >> Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > >> > >> Well, I guess that proves what they think about > >> Americans. Arrogant, self-centered, etc. > >> > >> --- Sandy Perle wrote: > >> > >> > John, > >> > > >> > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 > were > >> > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. > >> > > >> > Sandy > >> > > >> > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > >> > > >> > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > > "We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or > > omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the > world's population; that we > > cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent > of mankind; that we > > cannot right every wrong or reverse each > adversity; and therefore there > > cannot be an American solution to every world > problem." > > -- John F. Kennedy > > > > -- John > > John Jacobus, MS > > Certified Health Physicist > > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > > > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 > > _______________________________________________ > > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe > mailing list > > > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to > have read and understood > > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings > > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 10:41:59 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:41:59 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Salazar reintroduces bill to compensate ex-Rocky Flat workers Message-ID: <45EBD7D7.23322.5AEA5A@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: *Salazar reintroduces bill to compensate ex-Rocky Flat workers *China close to deal on French reactors *Agencies To Conduct Briefing on Radiological Exercise *TXU makes commitments, and environmentalists regard them warily *India's plan to sell low-cost N-reactors ------------------------------------ Salazar reintroduces bill to compensate ex-Rocky Flat workers DENVER (AP) Mar 5 - Sen. Ken Salazar, D-Colo., reintroduced a bill Thursday that would give benefits to Rocky Flats employees who became ill after working at the former nuclear weapons plant. About 10,000 people who worked at the former nuclear weapons plant between Denver and Boulder want to be classified under a program that makes workers at a Department of Energy site immediately and automatically eligible for medical coverage and compensation. Workers wouldn't have to file individual health claims. A similar bill covering Rocky Flats worker co-sponsored by Sen. Wayne Allard, R-Colo., died in the Senate in 2005. For the past two years, the employees have been seeking a designation that would make them eligible for benefits if they suffer from a cancer linked to exposure to radiation. Salazar said that the employees are victims of inadequate or missing records and bureaucratic red tape. "Across five decades, the patriotic men and women of Rocky Flats served their country producing plutonium, one of the most dangerous substances in the world, and crafting it into the triggers for America's nuclear arsenal," Salazar said. Rep. Mark Udall, D-Colo., has introduced a similar bill in the House Rep. Ed Perlmutter, D-Colo., is a co-sponsor. In 2002, Congress approved the Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation Program Act to expedite financial and medical benefits for the country's Cold War-era veterans. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health recommended against the petition filed by Rocky Flats workers. The agency said it's feasible to determine in individual cases whether an employee's exposure to radioactive materials can be tied to an illness. The United Steelworkers of America, the union that represented Rocky Flats workers, has said the records can't adequately establish those connections. Rocky Flats made plutonium triggers for nuclear warheads until 1992, when it was shut down because of safety concerns. The $7 billion cleanup of the 6,420-acre site was declared complete last fall. Energy Department officials have said the site is ready for conversion to a national wildlife refuge, expected by 2008. -------------- China close to deal on French reactors Nation turns to atomic energy to cut pollution and reliance on oil BEIJING (Bloomberg): China will award a contract to build two nuclear reactors in southeastern China to Areva of France, a Chinese official said Monday. The two sides are working on a final accord to build the reactors at Yangjiang in Guangdong Province, Qian Jihui, a senior adviser at China National Nuclear, the country's top nuclear reactor builder, said in Beijing. The contract was originally awarded to Toshiba's Westinghouse Electric, which will instead get an agreement for two other reactors in Shandong Province. China needs to add two reactors a year to meet a 2020 target of getting 4 percent of its power from nuclear energy, against about 2.3 percent now. Areva and Westinghouse are competing to build as many as 26 more reactors by 2020 as China turns to atomic energy to cut pollution and reliance on oil. "Awarding the contracts to two companies will give China more room in later negotiations," said Yan Shi, a Shanghai-based analyst with Core Pacific Yamaichi International. The parties will sign a final agreement "very soon," Qian said at the National People's Congress, without giving specific reasons for the decision to award the contract to build the reactors to Areva instead of Westinghouse. Westinghouse originally won a $5.3 billion agreement on Dec. 16 to build reactors at Yangjiang and Sanmen, after outbidding Areva and Russia following almost two years of negotiation and lobbying. President Jacques Chirac of France promoted Areva's bid when he met with his Chinese counterpart, Hu Jintao, during a visit to Beijing in October. China plans to import uranium from Australia, Canada, South Africa and Kazakhstan to fuel its expanding nuclear power capacity, Qian said. China has nine reactors operating in Zhejiang and Guangdong. Six are under construction in Jiangsu in the east and in Guangdong. These projects have a combined capacity of about 12,000 megawatts. Beijing plans to use Russian technology for two reactors at the Tianwan nuclear plant in the eastern coastal province of Jiangsu, Qian said. "China and Russia have a close relationship," he said. "Awarding nuclear reactors could be a deal boosted by political ties." Xu Damao, a senior consultant to the project operator China Guangdong Nuclear Power Holding, said Feb. 13 that the Paris-based Areva might build the Yangjiang reactors, among four originally earmarked for Westinghouse, which instead gets a contract for the two reactors at Haiyang in Shandong. Westinghouse, based in Monroeville, Pennsylvania, will provide technology for reactors at Haiyang and Sanmen, Yu Zhuoping, a senior official at State Nuclear Power Technology, a company designated by the government to hold talks with overseas reactor builders, said last week. China is the third-biggest nuclear energy user in Asia, after Japan and South Korea, according to the 2006 BP Statistical Review of World Energy. ------------------ Agencies To Conduct Briefing on Radiological Exercise Submitted by Oswego County FULTON, NY - Hundreds of emergency workers from county and state agencies and Entergy Nuclear-Northeast will participate Wednesday in an exercise to test on-site and off-site emergency preparedness plans in Oswego County. The exercise will involve a simulated event at the James A. FitzPatrick Nuclear Power Plant in Scriba. Representatives of the Department of Homeland Security Radiological Emergency Preparedness Program (formerly under the Federal Emergency Management Agency) and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) will conduct a public briefing at the Joint Information Center, next to the Oswego County Airport on County Route 176 northeast of Fulton, at 11 a.m. Friday, March 9. The purpose of this briefing is to inform the public of the agencies' preliminary findings in their evaluation of the March 7 exercise. ---------------- TXU makes commitments, and environmentalists regard them warily More wind and nuclear seem to be on the way. Over the past year, Gov. Rick Perry and Dallas utility TXU Corp. hammered at the need for more coal-fired power plants to serve a fast- growing population. Then, suddenly, TXU became the object of a $45 billion takeover deal late last month, and the company suspended plans to build eight of 11 coal-fired power plants to appease some environmental groups. The reduction would prevent the annual release of 56 million tons of carbon dioxide, the same amount released by about 7 million sport- utility vehicles, which contributes to global climate change. But even as the company says it will encourage energy efficiency and buy more wind energy, officials have said they will also try to build nuclear power plants and press forward with some coal-fired power plants. The deal leaves environmental- ists warily trying to figure out where TXU's energy is going to come from and how clean it will be. Environmental groups say the key to meeting the state's energy appetite is not ordering up more power plants but essentially putting the state on a diet. Groups have applauded TXU's new commitment to invest $400 million in energy efficiency programs, such as paying for weatherizing homes and replacing standard incandescent light bulbs with those that use less energy. Along the same lines, environmental groups have said they support rules proposed by state Sen. Kip Averitt, R-Waco, that would make appliances and new buildings more energy-efficient. The company, which says it is already the largest purchaser of wind energy in Texas, has said it would more than double its purchase to 1,500 megawatts, or enough to power about 330,000 homes. But wind makes up only about 2 percent of the company's entire portfolio. Last fall, TXU said it would double its renewable portfolio by 2011, a commitment that is more or less in keeping with statewide goals set by the Legislature. Meanwhile, TXU is not out of the coal-fired power plant business. It still plans to build three: one in Rockdale, about 60 miles northeast of Austin, and two others near Franklin, about 30 miles north of Bryan, which will be known as Oak Grove. The plants will emit close to 22 million tons of carbon dioxide a year. Austin environmental groups say the plants will sully air quality in Central Texas. "While the deal with TXU (to reduce the number of plants) was a great deal for the environment and a stunning victory in the battle over climate change, we're still be heavily threatened by the Oak Grove plant to the north and east of us," said Tom "Smitty" Smith, head of the Texas Office of Public Citizen. "That plant alone could threaten air safety in Austin enough to perhaps push us over federal limits." The eight other coal-fired power plants are not totally off the table. If the buyout deal falls through, TXU could revive them, and environmental groups and the company could resume butting heads. Environmental Defense, for one, a national group that approved of the buyout, said it is unsure whether to pull down its stoptxu.com Web site. Finally, TXU has said it will file paperwork for nuclear plants at one to three sites. Nuclear power plants do not emit the greenhouse gases that contribute to climate change - the top issue for many environmental groups - but activists say nuclear power raises problems of radioactive waste disposal and suffers from historically high capital cost overruns that often are subsidized by the government. "It worries me a great deal that there might be a shift toward emphasis on nuclear power," said Ken Kramer, head of the Lone Star chapter of the Sierra Club. "It's somewhat like a shell game the industry can play by putting out a lot of different ideas, many of them bad, and then pulling back on some of them and hoping others go through." ------------------- India's plan to sell low-cost N-reactors NEW DELHI - India has not only stepped up its diplomacy with the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) countries to allow it to access civil nuclear technology and fuel but may also become a supplier of low- cost nuclear reactors to other countries by joining the NSG. India?s nuclear establishment is riding high after the Kaiga 3 nuclear power reactor in Karnataka, developed by Indian engineers, achieved criticality early this week. The 220 MW pressurised heavy water reactor (PHWR) will start delivering power at the end of this month. Glowing in the success of this venture, Anil Kakodkar, chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission, has said that completing the nuclear power plant, along with low costs, in five years has set an international benchmark. Given the low costs - Rs984 ($22.33) per installed KW - Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL) is now eyeing the export market for nuclear reactors. India is confident of exporting the design to countries like Cambodia, Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam for just Rs1,200 ($27.24) per KW, which is substantially less than the international average of $1,500 per KW, a senior NPCIL official told IANS over the phone from Mumbai. With the lucrative export market for low-cost nuclear reactors in mind and its new international standing driven by its growing economy and a defining civil nuclear deal with the US, India also plans to make a pitch for joining the NSG at an appropriate time, reliable sources told IANS. But before India, a non-signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, actually starts exporting nuclear reactors, it must first win support of the 45-nation NSG that controls global trade in nuclear technology and fuel for the India-US civil nuclear deal. The NSG will, however, take a call on India?s case only after New Delhi and Washington have finalised a bilateral civil nuclear cooperation agreement. The US and Russia have already announced that they would use their clout in the NSG to amend the cartel?s guidelines in favour of nuclear commerce with India. ----------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From joseroze at netvision.net.il Mon Mar 5 10:42:30 2007 From: joseroze at netvision.net.il (Jose Julio Rozental) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:42:30 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] radioactive penalty Message-ID: <00a501c75f45$446859a0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Interesting topic to discuss in a list like this Jose Julio Rozental joseroze at netvision.net.il Israel Video - Radioactive Penalty AEA fined ?250,000 for HSE breach Published: 20 Feb 2006 By: Darshna Soni AEA Technology admitted breaching health and safety and radioactive material regulations and was fined ?250,000. Special video report at http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=1782 More details page 3.4 Regulatory Issues page 8 at http://www.aeat.co.uk/documents/2005-06_SHE_Report.pdf Action by Regulators The Health and Safety Executive and the Department for Transport took AEA Technology to court following their investigation of an incident at Cookridge Hospital, Leeds in March 2002. In the incident, a team from the Safeguard International Business of AEA used an incorrectly assembled transport container to move a large radioactive source. In preparing the container for transport, their radiation monitoring was inadequate and they failed to detect a narrow beam of radiation that was emitted from the base of the container. AEA Technology pleaded guilty to six charges at the Leeds Crown Court in February 2006, and was fined ?250,000 and ordered to pay ?151,000 costs [AEA Technology sold Safeguard International to Coller Capital in October 2005]. From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 10:56:08 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:56:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan) In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304095246.009fb9b0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <143698.26401.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Steve, Thanks for the information. I would recommend "Jihad vs. McWorld: How Globalism and Tribalism Are Reshaping the World," (1996). http://www.amazon.com/Jihad-vs-McWorld-Globalism-Tribalism/dp/0345383044/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-3822871-6040738?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173113505&sr=8-2 --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 4 > > May I recommend "Dying to Win The Strategic > Logic of Suicide > Terrorism," by Robert A. Pape (Random House, 2005). > > According to the dust jacket, "Every > suicide terrorist campaign > has had a clear goal that is secular and political: > to compel a modern > democracy to withdraw military forces from the > territory that the > terrorists view as their homeland." > > Pape makes a strong case for this being > true, (and not only among > Islamic terrorists). On p. 243 he notes the > increasing Muslim dislike of > the United States, and on p. 244 says, "The > underlying reason is not > discontent with Western political or economic > values, which are supported > by majorities or near majorities in these [three] > countries. Rather, the > taproot is American military policy. Overwhelming > majorities across a > range of Muslim countries believe that the United > States conquered Iraq to > control its oil or to help Israel rather than to end > terrorism or promote > democracy, and fear that their country might be > next." Pape provides > survey data to support these assertions. > > See also p. 316, fn. 4 for a book Pape > recommends that gives an > "extensive evaluation of the growing resentment of > American policies in > numerous areas around the world." (I have only read > Pape, not the book he > recommends.) > > The solution is not more people snooping > through travelers' > luggage, not more Homeland "Security"/TSA goon > squads, and not more x-ray > scanners operated by higher-paid inspectors. It is > to quit sticking our > national nose into everyone else's business. Don't > we have enough problems > at home to keep us busy? > > Please read Pape's book before you start > flaming me. Thank > you. If you don't have time to read it, please read > five or more of the 38 > reviews on Amazon.com, where it received 4 1/2 > stars. > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 11:04:59 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:04:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Intersting site In-Reply-To: <8C92CA729BBC1A2-12AC-AD85@WEBMAIL-MC14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <656788.25415.qm@web54305.mail.yahoo.com> Well, for one thing, Pierre Curie won the Nobel Prize in 1903 not 1905. --- lnmolino at aol.com wrote: > An interesting site but how accurate it is is a > guess on my part. > > http://www.roadtechs.com/rpchron.htm > > -- > Lou Molino, Sr. > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > >From the road some where ;) > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out > more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 11:26:56 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:26:56 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: [QUESTION] EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power In-Reply-To: <45EBCE59.30568.35D55F@sandyfl.cox.net> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5D5@gdses.corp.gds.com> Based on the survey below, several questions are obvious: (1) Other than France and Finland, what is the current capacity of generation power and demand in those countries who are opposed to nuclear generation? (2) If the current demand can not be met, where are they purchasing the additional required electrical generation? (3) How does the above change considering that many of these countries are stating that they will shutdown their nuclear plants over a specific time period? (4) How realistic is a policy that focuses on wind and solar, and not until 2020, to meet the increasing electricity demands? (5) What are the economics for the wind and solar generation compared to nuclear? What will "clean coal fired plants" cost compared to current technology, including nuclear. (6) How will political environment potentially change the above? ----------------------- EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power BRUSSELS -(Dow Jones) Mar 5 - Concerns about possible accidents and radioactive waste have pushed 61% of European Union citizens to say they want the bloc to use less nuclear power, an E.U. survey showed Monday. At the same time, a majority of survey respondents said they were concerned about climate change, which they attribute to the consumption of fossil fuels. Nuclear power is a contentious issue in Europe. While E.U. officials acknowledge it is one of the cheapest sources of low carbon energy, they are unwilling to push for more reactors. Finland and France are unabashedly pro-nuclear and building new reactors. Other countries, such as Austria and Germany, oppose nuclear energy. Instead of turning to nuclear power, E.U. officials are pushing fuel sources such as wind turbines and solar panels. Clean coal technology is also slated to be installed in the E.U. by 2020. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From jmarshall.reber at comcast.net Mon Mar 5 11:39:33 2007 From: jmarshall.reber at comcast.net (J. Marshall Reber) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:39:33 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era Message-ID: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. Throw out your little screwdrivers - - - future instrument adjustment and calibrations will all be done by Windows program interaction. Digitize your thought processes or become out-of-date! All analog circuitry will be done by digital emulation. People replaced by robots - - - where will it end? Oh the humanity, the humanity!!! From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 11:48:53 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:48:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304192538.009ed130@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <223925.87069.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Steve, I don't think there was any "love affair" between FDR and Stalin. After WWI there was a powerful isolationist movement in this country. Our entry into WWII was delayed by the "America First" movement, a member of which was the American hero Charles Lindbergh. http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/americafirst.html Also, there was fear of the rise Communism. And who better to fight the Communist that the Facists? Even before the US entered the European front, we had arrangements with Britain, e.g., Lend-Lease policy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease At the outset of our involvement, Stalin pushed for a second front. Instead the US and Britain push through North Africa, into the Mediterranian. Basically, the Soviet Union breed the Nazis with their own soldiers and citizens until we finally invaded Normandy. --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 4 > > Are we proud we exercised restraint and > allowed tens of millions > to be killed by Communism in the USSR and Red China? > No. Instead > Roosevelt fawned and simpered over Stalin and FDR > shoved through diplomatic > relations with "Uncle Joe." Stalin's mass homicides > and his show trials in > the 1930s didn't interfere with FDR's love affair > with Stalin, nor did they > interfere with the same love affair of domestic > left-wing extremists (who > were so violently anti-fascist). > > In order of death toll, Mao Tse-tung was > worst, followed by > Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, and (probably) Pol Pot. > > Funny isn't it, how we continue to maintain > diplomatic relations > withour "ungrateful European friends." > > Steven Dapra > > > At 06:58 PM 3/4/07 -0500, Syd H. Levine wrote: > >Somebody needs to stick their nose into a few > folks' business. Are we > >proud we exercised restraint and allowed millions > to be murdered by the > >Nazis before we decided to mind their business? > What about Pol Pot; we > >sat idly by while millions were murdered because > after Vietnam, it > >certainly was not politically expedient to get > involved in that part of > >the world. Pol Pot appears to be second only to > Hitler in the > >extermination of innocents. I suspect that > someday, our involvement in > >the middle east right now may be viewed in a > different light, whatever our > >ungrateful European friends may presently think. > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Perle" > > >To: "'Steven Dapra'" ; > > >Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 4:01 PM > >Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world > at large > > > > > >Steven, > > > >Thank you for your references. > > > >I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we > need to "quit sticking our > >national nose into everyone else's business." Our > government has done that > >way too often, attempting to instill our way of > life on others, who will > >never do so. Cultures are different, history is > different, and it's time our > >elected politicians follow the will of the people > instead of trying to make > >a name for themselves, or, providing the very > lobbyists and financial > >supporters who helped get them into office, wealthy > and more powerful. > > [edit] > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From hflong at pacbell.net Mon Mar 5 11:48:53 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:48:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Nuclear technology will overcome opposition. Autos and fire did In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070305174853.1187.qmail@web83506.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I like this positive persistence for nuclear technology. Autos and fire also had strong opposition. Howard Long Pete_Bailey at fpl.com wrote: > Let's continue to > develop and implement new > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > never get there. There > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Ya know, the above phrase like the "anti-nukes" push against nuclear power . . . Spend lots of resources reducing an ever decreasing risk.... Oh, as for "I have no problem paying a little more on every ticket I purchase." With all due respects,,,"you" purchase or "the company you work for purchases"? you don't need to answer.... As a 'common consumer' , the gradual increase in cost of everything is narrowing my world of non-essential spending.... OK, gots to get back to Rad stuff.... _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 11:56:46 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:56:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <425961.49313.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Mike, If you have any problems with Freanz's posting I suggest you correspond with him, or use the delete key. Only the List-owner can refuse to let individuals post on this list server. We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree. --- "Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)" wrote: > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > Franz, > > I request once again that you "knock it off". You > are in my opinion the only person on this list serve > that makes inappropriate postings and creates > problems. You seem to thrive on and enjoy conflict, > and you use subtle and obvious techniques to > generate it. Seems you are constantly looking for > opportunities to make postings with obvious or > subtle anti-US sentiments. I can assure you there > are other quiet RADSAF members besides me that > recognize your strategies and motives and don't > appreciate it. I would recommend that you eliminate > your kind sign offs with any reference to "kind > regards" or "respect" as I, and venture to say > others, see them as completely disingenuous. "Be > nice" or please take your conflict elsewhere. And > please leave Sandy and everyone else alone and don't > instigate them into your arena of conflict and > negativity. I am actually surprised that the > moderator allows you to continue posting. > > Mike Borisky > Army Research Lab > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of > Franz Sch?nhofer > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:55 PM > To: 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. > Rozental (J. J. Rozental) > Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles > Nazi speak > > Since I got tired of the subject I have not reacted > to any message on that subject since a long time, > but what I yesterday read in the discussion between > John and Mr. Perle motivated me to plan to react > tomorrow, because what is distributed by Mr. Perle > is just hairraising. But his two last messages are > so unacceptable that I write this comment now. All > attempts to intimitate me and ridicule me are in > vain, because such a character like Mr. > Perle cannot insult me. John, you know that I always > have esteemed your contributions I understand (I do > not understand questions of epidemiology and similar > ones). Now I have to congratulate you, because until > now you are obviously the only US-citizen on RADSAFE > to speak out clearly against this paranoid "safety > thinking", which seems to be only used to intimitade > people, subject them to humiliation (been shown > naked on screens) and to undermine the human rights > and of course to raise the profit of quite a few > companies claiming that they manufacture instruments > and devices for "safety". I know more than well, > that these are not only my thoughts, but these are > the thoughts of many million US-citizens and > influential groups. > Practically all of my US-friends and collegues are > among them. > > So much now, but the main reason that I have not > waited until tomorrow, is, that Mr. Perle used the > expression "sub-human" before and even insisted on > these words in his latest contribution. This is > clearly Nazi-Speak - in German "Untermenschen", a > label given by Nazi-Germany to non-arian people like > all Slavs, including Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, > Czech, Slovenians, Serbs, Montenegrinians etc. etc., > the Romas (gypsies), Arabs and especially Jews. (It > is intersting that the Romas are genuine Arians.) I > do not expect that Mr. Perle has ever been to > Auschwitz or Majdanek or any of the other > Nazi-extinction camps, where "sub-humans" were > killed daily by the thousands or rather tens of > thousands like insects by using hydrogen cyanide. I > have been there and therefore I am more than > allergic for such words. > > Now I ask whether RADSAFE is the right place to use > Nazi-speak. Another US citizen has been banned many > years ago from the list, because he was calling an > international organisation for "Gestapo". It seems > that this expression throws a light on Mr. Perles > character. More light I'll shed on him and his queer > opinions tomorrow (like "he" wants to be safe on > flights and therefore everybody else has to undergo > humiliating procedures, not raising at all safety > and security). > > It is half past midnight and again I will go to > sleep. The most recent attempt to insult me by Mr. > Perle on 15 Feb. is ridiculous: I will not take an > aspirin, because I take it everyday in the morning > according to my doctors advice. I do not take > something called "Luvox". I do not even know what it > is, but this only confirms that Mr. Perle is of the > opinion that everybody in this world should know > US-brandnames and in a broader view succumb to any > US interest and request. Since I might concede that > Mr. Perle might be aware, that an Austrian does not > know "Luvox" I take the alternative conclusion that > he was writing this for the US-market of his > company. > > Again, John, my deepest respect. Mr. Perle, please > never adress me personally again. > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > MinRat i.R. > Habicherg. 31/7 > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > AUSTRIA > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von > Sandy Perle > Gesendet: Freitag, 02. M?rz 2007 23:18 > An: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were > sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays > Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to > be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another > country? > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current > round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our > solution has certainly not changed the risks we > face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers > of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the > problem with Americans looking at the problems in > the Middle East and other areas. They many not have > shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me > of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. > They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a > > plane with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It > > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were > implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves .. and that reason > > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred to die along > > with the thousands of innocents that they > murdered. You can't compare > > apples and oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 11:57:17 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 09:57:17 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [QUESTION] EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power Message-ID: <45EBE97D.17624.9FDCED@sandyfl.cox.net> Re-eending this request for information. The original sent 30 minutes ago has not received confirmation. ------------- Based on the survey below, several questions are obvious: (1) Other than France and Finland, what is the current capacity of generation power and demand in those countries who are opposed to nuclear generation? (2) If the current demand can not be met, where are they purchasing the additional required electrical generation? (3) How does the above change considering that many of these countries are stating that they will shutdown their nuclear plants over a specific time period? (4) How realistic is a policy that focuses on wind and solar, and not until 2020, to meet the increasing electricity demands? (5) What are the economics for the wind and solar generation compared to nuclear? What will "clean coal fired plants" cost compared to current technology, including nuclear. (6) How will political environment potentially change the above? ----------------------- EU Survey Shows 61% Of Citizens Want Less Nuclear Power BRUSSELS -(Dow Jones) Mar 5 - Concerns about possible accidents and radioactive waste have pushed 61% of European Union citizens to say they want the bloc to use less nuclear power, an E.U. survey showed Monday. At the same time, a majority of survey respondents said they were concerned about climate change, which they attribute to the consumption of fossil fuels. Nuclear power is a contentious issue in Europe. While E.U. officials acknowledge it is one of the cheapest sources of low carbon energy, they are unwilling to push for more reactors. Finland and France are unabashedly pro-nuclear and building new reactors. Other countries, such as Austria and Germany, oppose nuclear energy. Instead of turning to nuclear power, E.U. officials are pushing fuel sources such as wind turbines and solar panels. Clean coal technology is also slated to be installed in the E.U. by 2020. Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From srh at esper.com Mon Mar 5 12:10:56 2007 From: srh at esper.com (Shawn Hughes (Road2)) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 13:10:56 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Stephen Dapra's Comments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003e01c75f51$a11de870$d5a290c6@LAPTOP2> Stephen; I'm not going to play 'cut and paste' commando with you. You seem passionate about foisting your opinion, no matter how liberal or revisionistic it may be upon the rest of us. I, and many others like me disagree. For instance: "Since the inception of Homeland Security/TSA I have read many stories in the popular press about their heavy-handed and tyrannical Behavior" I am trying to recall.... What do we call those that label a race or group of people after making a snap judgement using a few observations? Oh - and 'many stories'. How many is many? Especially considering over 600 MILLION people flew in just US domestic flights last year. But, I am certain you'll have many witty anecdotes that perfectly dovetail your position to refute anything I say. Bravo! Anyway, you are welcome to keep your position and point of view. Absolutely none of this has to do with radiation protection. I have zero interest in turning this list into alt.theorys.speculation.world.politics because I have been very tired of hearing the others argue, so it seems wrong of me to perpetuate it. I responded only because I didn't want you to think your blinding insight silenced me. ;) -Shawn +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Shawn R. Hughes Special Projects Consultant near Oak Ridge, Tennessee [suppressed] telelphone srh at esper.com primary email [suppressed] fledgling webpage WARNING AND NOTICE: This email may contain privileged information. If it is not addressed to you by me, you do not have the right to read or use it. If you do not get a prompt reply to your email from me, it is because I have set filtering very high due to the age of my account. Please try an alternate form of messaging. UNCLASSIFIED END TEXT From hflong at pacbell.net Mon Mar 5 12:15:33 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:15:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Terror Motive ? In-Reply-To: <143698.26401.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070305181533.87274.qmail@web83504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Steve, John, and Radsafers, Taped on the mirror in front of my desk is this quote from a Nat. Geog article by an American woman journalist in Isfahan, Iran. "What do you see as America's greatest threat to your country?" I ask him. He doesn't need to think about it. "America's poor morality," he says immediately. Not bombs. Not planes flying into buildings. Morality. "We don't want to be like you in the west," Majid insists. The tyrannical covering of female features to relieve male need to control libido, especially imposed with religious fervor on conflicted adolescents already struggling with hormonal impuses, drives them to suggested suicidal absolution. Does this underlie an otherwise incomprehendable threat? Would the Caliphate use an A bomb on nearby San Francisco, Sin City? Howard Long John Jacobus wrote: Steve, Thanks for the information. I would recommend "Jihad vs. McWorld: How Globalism and Tribalism Are Reshaping the World," (1996). http://www.amazon.com/Jihad-vs-McWorld-Globalism-Tribalism/dp/0345383044/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-3822871-6040738?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173113505&sr=8-2 --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 4 > > May I recommend "Dying to Win The Strategic > Logic of Suicide > Terrorism," by Robert A. Pape (Random House, 2005). > > According to the dust jacket, "Every > suicide terrorist campaign > has had a clear goal that is secular and political: > to compel a modern > democracy to withdraw military forces from the > territory that the > terrorists view as their homeland." > > Pape makes a strong case for this being > true, (and not only among > Islamic terrorists). On p. 243 he notes the > increasing Muslim dislike of > the United States, and on p. 244 says, "The > underlying reason is not > discontent with Western political or economic > values, which are supported > by majorities or near majorities in these [three] > countries. Rather, the > taproot is American military policy. Overwhelming > majorities across a > range of Muslim countries believe that the United > States conquered Iraq to > control its oil or to help Israel rather than to end > terrorism or promote > democracy, and fear that their country might be > next." Pape provides > survey data to support these assertions. > > See also p. 316, fn. 4 for a book Pape > recommends that gives an > "extensive evaluation of the growing resentment of > American policies in > numerous areas around the world." (I have only read > Pape, not the book he > recommends.) > > The solution is not more people snooping > through travelers' > luggage, not more Homeland "Security"/TSA goon > squads, and not more x-ray > scanners operated by higher-paid inspectors. It is > to quit sticking our > national nose into everyone else's business. Don't > we have enough problems > at home to keep us busy? > > Please read Pape's book before you start > flaming me. Thank > you. If you don't have time to read it, please read > five or more of the 38 > reviews on Amazon.com, where it received 4 1/2 > stars. > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From mborisky at arl.army.mil Mon Mar 5 12:39:28 2007 From: mborisky at arl.army.mil (Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 13:39:28 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: <425961.49313.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <425961.49313.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE John, Thanks! In my view, this is an extreme case. I didn't expect to have to endure political insults and needling on RADSAF. I consider us a family of professionals, and I don't like seeing my colleagues insulted and instigated into unnecessary conflict. List-owner please help. Mike -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 12:57 PM To: Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO); Franz "Sch?nhofer; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental) Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Mike, If you have any problems with Freanz's posting I suggest you correspond with him, or use the delete key. Only the List-owner can refuse to let individuals post on this list server. We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree. --- "Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)" wrote: > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > Franz, > > I request once again that you "knock it off". You are in my opinion > the only person on this list serve that makes inappropriate postings > and creates problems. You seem to thrive on and enjoy conflict, and > you use subtle and obvious techniques to > generate it. Seems you are constantly looking for > opportunities to make postings with obvious or subtle anti-US > sentiments. I can assure you there are other quiet RADSAF members > besides me that recognize your strategies and motives and don't > appreciate it. I would recommend that you eliminate your kind sign > offs with any reference to "kind regards" or "respect" as I, and > venture to say others, see them as completely disingenuous. "Be nice" > or please take your conflict elsewhere. And please leave Sandy and > everyone else alone and don't instigate them into your arena of > conflict and negativity. I am actually surprised that the moderator > allows you to continue posting. > > Mike Borisky > Army Research Lab > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Franz Sch?nhofer > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:55 PM > To: 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. > Rozental (J. J. Rozental) > Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak > > Since I got tired of the subject I have not reacted to any message on > that subject since a long time, but what I yesterday read in the > discussion between John and Mr. Perle motivated me to plan to react > tomorrow, because what is distributed by Mr. Perle is just > hairraising. But his two last messages are so unacceptable that I > write this comment now. All attempts to intimitate me and ridicule me > are in vain, because such a character like Mr. > Perle cannot insult me. John, you know that I always have esteemed > your contributions I understand (I do not understand questions of > epidemiology and similar ones). Now I have to congratulate you, > because until now you are obviously the only US-citizen on RADSAFE to > speak out clearly against this paranoid "safety thinking", which seems > to be only used to intimitade people, subject them to humiliation > (been shown naked on screens) and to undermine the human rights and of > course to raise the profit of quite a few companies claiming that they > manufacture instruments and devices for "safety". I know more than > well, that these are not only my thoughts, but these are the thoughts > of many million US-citizens and influential groups. > Practically all of my US-friends and collegues are among them. > > So much now, but the main reason that I have not waited until > tomorrow, is, that Mr. Perle used the expression "sub-human" before > and even insisted on these words in his latest contribution. This is > clearly Nazi-Speak - in German "Untermenschen", a label given by > Nazi-Germany to non-arian people like all Slavs, including Russians, > Ukrainians, Poles, Czech, Slovenians, Serbs, Montenegrinians etc. > etc., the Romas (gypsies), Arabs and especially Jews. (It is > intersting that the Romas are genuine Arians.) I do not expect that > Mr. Perle has ever been to Auschwitz or Majdanek or any of the other > Nazi-extinction camps, where "sub-humans" were killed daily by the > thousands or rather tens of thousands like insects by using hydrogen > cyanide. I have been there and therefore I am more than allergic for > such words. > > Now I ask whether RADSAFE is the right place to use Nazi-speak. > Another US citizen has been banned many years ago from the list, > because he was calling an international organisation for "Gestapo". It > seems that this expression throws a light on Mr. Perles character. > More light I'll shed on him and his queer opinions tomorrow (like "he" > wants to be safe on flights and therefore everybody else has to > undergo humiliating procedures, not raising at all safety and > security). > > It is half past midnight and again I will go to sleep. The most recent > attempt to insult me by Mr. > Perle on 15 Feb. is ridiculous: I will not take an aspirin, because I > take it everyday in the morning according to my doctors advice. I do > not take something called "Luvox". I do not even know what it is, but > this only confirms that Mr. Perle is of the opinion that everybody in > this world should know US-brandnames and in a broader view succumb to > any US interest and request. Since I might concede that Mr. Perle > might be aware, that an Austrian does not know "Luvox" I take the > alternative conclusion that he was writing this for the US-market of > his company. > > Again, John, my deepest respect. Mr. Perle, please never adress me > personally again. > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > MinRat i.R. > Habicherg. 31/7 > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > AUSTRIA > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Sandy Perle > Gesendet: Freitag, 02. M?rz 2007 23:18 > An: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still > are in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping > the plane to fly to another country? > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist > is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the > risks we face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were > not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the > problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have > shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view > of the Japanese during WWII. > They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a > > plane with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It > > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were > implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves .. and that reason > > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred to die along > > with the thousands of innocents that they > murdered. You can't compare > > apples and oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE From terryj at iit.edu Mon Mar 5 12:53:18 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:53:18 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <47122ED5-B5B6-4946-B76C-01E05428444D@iit.edu> Actually, this really is a shame. I hope that some of them make the move down to Ludlum. This has been in the works for some time now. If anyone needs backup manuals for older instruments, the time to ask is now. I hate Windows programs. I wish that scientific instrument manufacturers would provide linux software at a minimum. I guess that loss on knowledge is one of dangers of selling out to large multinational corporations. Jeff On Mar 5, 2007, at 11:39 AM, J. Marshall Reber wrote: > I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their > Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and > service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more > than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, > repair service will all be done in South Carolina. > > Throw out your little screwdrivers - - - future instrument > adjustment and calibrations will all be done by Windows program > interaction. Digitize your thought processes or become out-of- > date! All analog circuitry will be done by digital emulation. > People replaced by robots - - - where will it end? Oh the > humanity, the humanity!!! > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// > radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other > settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From nssihou at aol.com Mon Mar 5 13:05:57 2007 From: nssihou at aol.com (nssihou at aol.com) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:05:57 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: References: <2133344169-1172873868-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1054819454-@bxe032-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <000001c75d26$33979120$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <8C92D7070B4DE43-138C-18A6@WEBMAIL-RA05.sysops.aol.com> I have suggested many times before that members of RADSAFE should simply ignore the cooks who seem to spend their entire lifetime criticizing others on RADSAFE for their views or their spelling. I makes you wonder who pays these persons for the time they spend. Each time I suggest ignoring these persons, someone indicates that there is a need to refute what the person says. It would appear that some people are just looking for an excuse to argue. When I note that the author of the comment is by one of these troublemakers, I simply delete the comment as I would any other recognizable garbage on line. I would suggest a similar approach by others Bob Gallagher NSSI -----Original Message----- From: mborisky at arl.army.mil To: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at; crispy_bird at yahoo.com; radsafe at radlab.nl; joseroze at netvision.net.il Sent: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 8:13 AM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Franz, I request once again that you "knock it off". You are in my opinion the only person on this list serve that makes inappropriate postings and creates problems. You seem to thrive on and enjoy conflict, and you use subtle and obvious techniques to generate it. Seems you are constantly looking for opportunities to make postings with obvious or subtle anti-US sentiments. I can assure you there are other quiet RADSAF members besides me that recognize your strategies and motives and don't appreciate it. I would recommend that you eliminate your kind sign offs with any reference to "kind regards" or "respect" as I, and venture to say others, see them as completely disingenuous. "Be nice" or please take your conflict elsewhere. And please leave Sandy and everyone else alone and don't instigate them into your arena of conflict and negativity. I am actually surprised that the moderator allows you to continue posting. Mike Borisky Army Research Lab -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Franz Sch?nhofer Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:55 PM To: 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental) Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Since I got tired of the subject I have not reacted to any message on that subject since a long time, but what I yesterday read in the discussion between John and Mr. Perle motivated me to plan to react tomorrow, because what is distributed by Mr. Perle is just hairraising. But his two last messages are so unacceptable that I write this comment now. All attempts to intimitate me and ridicule me are in vain, because such a character like Mr. Perle cannot insult me. John, you know that I always have esteemed your contributions I understand (I do not understand questions of epidemiology and similar ones). Now I have to congratulate you, because until now you are obviously the only US-citizen on RADSAFE to speak out clearly against this paranoid "safety thinking", which seems to be only used to intimitade people, subject them to humiliation (been shown naked on screens) and to undermine the human rights and of course to raise the profit of quite a few companies claiming that they manufacture instruments and devices for "safety". I know more than well, that these are not only my thoughts, but these are the thoughts of many million US-citizens and influential groups. Practically all of my US-friends and collegues are among them. So much now, but the main reason that I have not waited until tomorrow, is, that Mr. Perle used the expression "sub-human" before and even insisted on these words in his latest contribution. This is clearly Nazi-Speak - in German "Untermenschen", a label given by Nazi-Germany to non-arian people like all Slavs, including Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Czech, Slovenians, Serbs, Montenegrinians etc. etc., the Romas (gypsies), Arabs and especially Jews. (It is intersting that the Romas are genuine Arians.) I do not expect that Mr. Perle has ever been to Auschwitz or Majdanek or any of the other Nazi-extinction camps, where "sub-humans" were killed daily by the thousands or rather tens of thousands like insects by using hydrogen cyanide. I have been there and therefore I am more than allergic for such words. Now I ask whether RADSAFE is the right place to use Nazi-speak. Another US citizen has been banned many years ago from the list, because he was calling an international organisation for "Gestapo". It seems that this expression throws a light on Mr. Perles character. More light I'll shed on him and his queer opinions tomorrow (like "he" wants to be safe on flights and therefore everybody else has to undergo humiliating procedures, not raising at all safety and security). It is half past midnight and again I will go to sleep. The most recent attempt to insult me by Mr. Perle on 15 Feb. is ridiculous: I will not take an aspirin, because I take it everyday in the morning according to my doctors advice. I do not take something called "Luvox". I do not even know what it is, but this only confirms that Mr. Perle is of the opinion that everybody in this world should know US-brandnames and in a broader view succumb to any US interest and request. Since I might concede that Mr. Perle might be aware, that an Austrian does not know "Luvox" I take the alternative conclusion that he was writing this for the US-market of his company. Again, John, my deepest respect. Mr. Perle, please never adress me personally again. Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Sandy Perle Gesendet: Freitag, 02. M?rz 2007 23:18 An: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags John, Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still are in my opinion.. Sandy Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not Just Bags Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping the plane to fly to another country? Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the risks we face. We are just trying to build higher fences. I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view of the Japanese during WWII. They were subhuman also. Times change. --- Sandy Perle wrote: > John, > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a person simply got on a > plane with a gun where there was no security check performed. It > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were implemented and > x-ray checking of carry-on. > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags were X-rayed. The > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill themselves .. and that reason > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans preferred to die along > with the thousands of innocents that they murdered. You can't compare > apples and oranges. > > Sandy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Sandy Perle > Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry > Solutions, Inc. > 2652 McGaw Avenue > Irvine, CA 92614 > > Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 > Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 > Fax:(949) 296-1144 > > Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: > http://sandy-travels.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 10:23 AM > To: Sandy Perle; radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > In the > 1970s and 1980s we had sky marshalls. > http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_Military/JSC_PrivateSe > curity/JOB_FederalAirMarshall/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1 > That seemed to stop planes being hijacked to Cuba. > Is > there a lesson here? Low technology works well > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From LNMolino at aol.com Mon Mar 5 13:11:42 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:11:42 EST Subject: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Ray... Message-ID: In a message dated 3/5/2007 9:40:15 A.M. Central Standard Time, crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: Louis, You are correct. I should have said that "this new wave of terrorism will pass and be replace by another." At the beginning of the 20th century, Anarchism was the new terrorism. It will be replaced by a new one. One can even argue that the treat of nuclear warfare was a form of terrorism, which is why it was called MAD. http://www.state.de.us/cjc/terrorism/history.shtml I can fully agree with that statement above. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From garyi at trinityphysics.com Mon Mar 5 13:40:20 2007 From: garyi at trinityphysics.com (garyi at trinityphysics.com) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:40:20 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <20070305021431.57129.qmail@web32510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House>, <20070305021431.57129.qmail@web32510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45EC1DC4.9691.1EC9BBB1@garyi.trinityphysics.com> We stick our nose into things that threaten our survival or the survival of our "progeny". When nutters try to clean up the local gene pool with a dose of ethnic cleansing, we also stick our noses in, if we have the resources and the moral will to do so. Either situation justifies some level of military butt kicking, and we extend that wilingness to use force for the protection of our allies. Radical Islamic terrorism is a threat to our survival, and even more of a threat to the survival of our progeny. Demographically, the Europeans who were our good friends back in the 1940s and 50s are dying out. Their population is decreasing with a half-life of around 20 to 40 years, because they do not choose to reproduce. They are being replaced by a rapid influx of Muslims, who reproduce with vigor. So the problem for the US is that at some point in the future, many if not most European nations will be Muslim. If radical Islamic terrorism is sufficiently alive and well at that time, it will seek control of the government, the military, and the nuclear weapons of those countries. What will happen then? Why, it is quite simple. We will have a go at destroying each other, of course. And it is important to remember that this will not simply be Cold War: Round 2. No, this new enemy has no instinct for self- preservation, and is perfectly happy to die as long as you, unbeliever, will die also. Mutually Assured Destruction would not be a deterent, it would be a goal. How can the US prevent this? The only course of action with any apparent hope of success is to eliminate terrorism, especially the radical Islamic type. So when we find terrorists or countries that sponsor terrorists, we need to step on them as hard as we can. That is why we are in Iraq. For America, 911 was the kitchen light switched on in the middle night, revealing an infestation that we, till then, knew of only remotely and vaguely. It was a horrifying sight, because these vermin were determined to have the corpses of our friends and family members, instead of last night's pizza crumbs. The vision crystallized our resolve, and we squashed the most obvious and blatant roach that we saw: Saddam Hussein. Unfortunately, his fellow vermin have gone to ground and are campaigning to get the light switched off again. Christianity sponsored the Inquisition at one point. Aren't you glad that it didn't have nuclear weapons then! Modern Christians shudder at the memory of the Inquisition. In the same way, I hope that all Muslims will one day shudder at the memory of the innocent blood spilled in the name of Islam. Regards, Gary Isenhower From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 13:44:00 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 11:44:00 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: <425961.49313.qm@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5E0@gdses.corp.gds.com> John, Yes, I agree with your comment "We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree." I am a firm believer in the USA 1st amendment providing for "reasonable" freedom of speech. We can't stifle speech at the same time we try to promote freedom elsewhere in the world. The 1st amendment is meaningless unless it protects the most egregious speech. As far as Radsafe, it is a monitored list, and if Marcel believes there is an issue with anyone's conduct and/or comments, then he would deal with it as best as possible, as did Mike Stabin previously. I simply delete the posts from those individuals whom I no longer wish to have a dialogue with. Each member can do the same. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:57 AM Mike, If you have any problems with Freanz's posting I suggest you correspond with him, or use the delete key. Only the List-owner can refuse to let individuals post on this list server. We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree. From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 13:46:24 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 11:46:24 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: [RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Message-ID: <45EC0310.11911.103FD9E@sandyfl.cox.net> John, Yes, I agree with your comment "We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree." I am a firm believer in the USA 1st amendment providing for "reasonable" freedom of speech. We can't stifle speech at the same time we try to promote freedom elsewhere in the world. The 1st amendment is meaningless unless it protects the most egregious speech. As far as Radsafe, it is a monitored list, and if Marcel believes there is an issue with anyone's conduct and/or comments, then he would deal with it as best as possible, as did Mike Stabin previously. I simply delete the posts from those individuals whom I no longer wish to have a dialogue with. Each member can do the same. Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:57 AM Mike, If you have any problems with Freanz's posting I suggest you correspond with him, or use the delete key. Only the List-owner can refuse to let individuals post on this list server. We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree. Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From WesVanPelt at verizon.net Mon Mar 5 13:52:06 2007 From: WesVanPelt at verizon.net (Wes Van Pelt) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:52:06 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001501c75f5f$c1a052f0$44e0f8d0$@net> Of course, there is still Ludlum. Wes Best regards, Wes Wesley R. Van Pelt, PhD, CIH, CHP Wesley R. Van Pelt Associates, Inc. ? I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 14:00:05 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 12:00:05 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: [Radsafe] Airport X-rays Message-ID: <45EC0645.3206.1108B6C@sandyfl.cox.net> The following is from the Washington Post's Mensa Invitational seems appropriate when one considers a philosophy that demands that technology not be pursued unless there is a zero tolerance capability and must meet 100% of a stated need. Bozone: The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future. --------------------------------------------- Pete Bailey stated the following > Let's continue to > develop and implement new > technologies to approach 100%, even though we will > never get there. There > will always be some risk. Let's keep minimizing it. Ya know, the above phrase like the "anti-nukes" push against nuclear power . . . Spend lots of resources reducing an ever decreasing risk.... Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From jmarshall.reber at comcast.net Mon Mar 5 14:05:11 2007 From: jmarshall.reber at comcast.net (J. Marshall Reber) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 15:05:11 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <001501c75f5f$c1a052f0$44e0f8d0$@net> References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> <001501c75f5f$c1a052f0$44e0f8d0$@net> Message-ID: <3BFBB2AA-2F6E-43CC-B31D-2F8780A9B5AC@comcast.net> On Mar 5, 2007, at 2:52 PM, Wes Van Pelt wrote: > Of course, there is still Ludlum. Thank goodness, a First Rate company!! From dlawrencenewyork at aol.com Mon Mar 5 14:23:36 2007 From: dlawrencenewyork at aol.com (dlawrencenewyork at aol.com) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 15:23:36 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8C92D7B49DFDF44-1C24-211E@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> RIP E.I.C. RTID -----Original Message----- From: jmarshall.reber at comcast.net To: radsafe at radlab.nl Sent: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:39 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. Throw out your little screwdrivers - - - future instrument adjustment and calibrations will all be done by Windows program interaction. Digitize your thought processes or become out-of-date! All analog circuitry will be done by digital emulation. People replaced by robots - - - where will it end? Oh the humanity, the humanity!!! _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From jjcohen at prodigy.net Mon Mar 5 15:13:03 2007 From: jjcohen at prodigy.net (jjcohen at prodigy.net) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 13:13:03 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001b01c75f6b$10f6d620$7eefe245@domainnotset.invalid> Not much new here--- I believe those in the buggy whip industry expressed similar sentiments when the internal combustion engine became popular. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Marshall Reber" To: "radsafelist" Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:39 AM Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era > I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their > Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and > service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than > 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair > service will all be done in South Carolina. > > Throw out your little screwdrivers - - - future instrument adjustment > and calibrations will all be done by Windows program interaction. > Digitize your thought processes or become out-of-date! All analog > circuitry will be done by digital emulation. People replaced by > robots - - - where will it end? Oh the humanity, the humanity!!! > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 15:08:36 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 13:08:36 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5E4@gdses.corp.gds.com> Are you sure that these operations aren't being consolidated in their new manufacturing facility located in Oakbrook, OH? Thermo employees do monitor this list, so we might get some more details regarding this. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of J. Marshall Reber Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:40 AM To: radsafelist Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. From jsalsman at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 15:59:41 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 13:59:41 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Terror Motive ? Message-ID: Howard Long wrote: > Would the Caliphate use an A bomb on nearby San Francisco, Sin City? The San Francisco Bar Area, by virtue perhaps of its great weather, has become the permanent or part-year home of large segments of the world's ultra-rich, including immigrants and foreign nationals from Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc. Many of the world's very wealthy who live here are not constrained by strict religious mores derived from Bronze Age myths unlike leaders in Riyadh, Tehran, and Washington D.C. who must give extensive lip-service to their subjects' myths in order to remain in power. However, many of the most powerful people in Iran, Saudi Arabi, Jordan, and even Syria, have extensive family in the San Francisco Bay Area. Our multinational heritage is a source of great economic and social strength in our community. If an A-bomb attack were to occur in the Western US, I think it would be much more likely in San Diego, with it's large and easily accessible military harbor area, or Las Vegas, which actually is called "sin city" unlike San Francisco. However, if an anti-US terrorist group obtained one or a few A-bombs, then I think it is much more likely that they would try to detonate from the tall residential buildings just North of the FBI building in Washington, DC. I don't think it is a question of "if," but "when." Putting full body x-ray scanners in the airports isn't going to help this. We need to get the diplomacy of State Department promoted above the war-making functions of the Defense Department. For too long diplomacy has been relativly ignored in the US. Things could have been so much better, and they still can be. Sincerely, James Salsman From jdaitken at sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com Mon Mar 5 16:19:04 2007 From: jdaitken at sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com (Doug Aitken) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 16:19:04 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <45EC1DC4.9691.1EC9BBB1@garyi.trinityphysics.com> References: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> <20070305021431.57129.qmail@web32510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <45EC1DC4.9691.1EC9BBB1@garyi.trinityphysics.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20070305161500.06dda140@us1061-pop3.mail.slb.com> At 01:40 PM 3/5/2007, garyi at trinityphysics.com wrote: >We stick our nose into things that threaten our survival or the survival >of our "progeny"........ Can we please get back to discussing the hazards of DU? At least, that has a tenuous relation to Radiation Safety.......... Or just get back to keeping quiet unless there is a real topic of real interest to Health Physics people..... Regards Doug Doug Aitken Office Phone Use Cell phone! QHSE Advisor Home Phone 713 797-0919 D&M Operations Support Cell Phone 713 562-8585 Schlumberger Technology Corporation From terryj at iit.edu Mon Mar 5 16:24:31 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 16:24:31 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <45EC1DC4.9691.1EC9BBB1@garyi.trinityphysics.com> References: <005e01c75eb9$00746fe0$0100a8c0@House> <20070305021431.57129.qmail@web32510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <45EC1DC4.9691.1EC9BBB1@garyi.trinityphysics.com> Message-ID: <77DCA1DA-6E56-422F-B745-F15AF0291250@iit.edu> I hate to argue but ... On Mar 5, 2007, at 1:40 PM, garyi at trinityphysics.com wrote: > That is why > we are in Iraq. For America, 911 was the kitchen light switched on > in the middle night, > revealing an infestation that we, till then, knew of only remotely > and vaguely. It was a > horrifying sight, because these vermin were determined to have the > corpses of our friends > and family members, instead of last night's pizza crumbs. I believe that only a minority of Americans have had this light switched on. It is an event that I won't forget any time soon. However, the U. S. media decided to censor the bodies exploding upon impact with light posts, etc. The absence of these images certainly made it more difficult for many U. S. citizens (greater than 50% but close to 50%) to have this illuminated for them. > The vision crystallized our resolve, I believe that many of my countrymen have not had their resolve crystallized, again around 50% would be my guess. One could certainly argue that they should have been awaken to this threat of terrorism. That said I still don't believe that the scanners will make much of an impact on flight security at all. I think that is a red herring to the actually argument that will need to be made in the U. S. Jeff From LNMolino at aol.com Mon Mar 5 16:30:04 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 17:30:04 EST Subject: AW: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] NewAirport X-... Message-ID: Comments in-line: LNM In a message dated 3/5/2007 4:18:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, franz.schoenhofer at chello.at writes: Louis, You might remember that especially in the 80's and early 90's hijacking was a kind of everyday event. This did not only include Muslims, but to a much higher extent all from Russians to escape to the West, Cubans forcing deviation to Cuba, members of the German RAF to liberate imprisoned members, etc. etc. This terror has declined to zero as far as I know. For one simple reason as I see (this answer applies to US based high jacking only). Prior to 9/11 if say a flight from Cuba was high jacked wanting to go to Miami it was likely a Cuban seeking political asylum etc. No doubt the plane would divert and the situation resolved with no real fanfare BUT then 19 Me too 4 planes (likely more in the offing) and intentionally slammed into buildings. no demands, no ransoms, nothing just murders in excess of 3500 including 343 members of the FDNY and over 70 law enforcement officers from PAPD and NYPD. Now as a "typical" red blooded American male here's my response to the Pre 9/11 high jacking if I am on the plane. I am made as it's cutting into my life, I understand this Cuban wanting off that island for a variety of reasons but he's taking MY time. On the day I fly for the first time in a post 9/11 world my attitude is really simple, if some SOB stands up with a weapon he's not gonna have a good day at least I'll try to be like those in United flight 93. No way is ANYONE taking this plane while I'm on it is my motto. Other forms of terror have involved, but this seems to be a shortlived one - do not claim it to enhanced "security". My personal opinion then and also nowadays: If the mass media would not have covered these events and especially the politically motivated ones to such an event no terrorists would have any more used this potential blackmail. Well on that I would tend to agree with you. Let's talk about Spain. They bailed out of Iraq not long after their trains were bombed in Madrid yes? Since they left has there been any other acts well as a matter of fact several. So those terrorists got what they wanted then wanted some more. The US has a ling held policy to not negotiate with terrorists, the day we do is the day we begin to die. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From jsalsman at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 16:48:01 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:48:01 -0800 Subject: AW: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-... Message-ID: > The US has a long-held policy to not negotiate with terrorists.... On the contrary: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070305fa_fact_hersh http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/25/hersh-qaeda/ We don't negotiate with them, we just go ahead and fund and arm them. All this benefits is the arms manufacturers, and it makes huge national embarrassments like Iran-Contra and now this Al Qaeda crap. Sincerely, James Salsman From terryj at iit.edu Mon Mar 5 17:00:40 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 17:00:40 -0600 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <000701c75f76$9eb63770$49197254@pc1> References: <000701c75f76$9eb63770$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <16B2090F-CBCF-4FFC-A23F-1CE431736E0D@iit.edu> I agree that this is one of the typical results of globalization, hence the reason that I mentioned it. U. S. companies have suffered from this for many years. Most of the steel industry that I grew up with is now closed or owned by multinational corporations. Of course, it is always easy to forget that their are hardships faced in other areas. My concern is the loss of knowledge, working at a university with many older pieces of equipment. It was nice to be able to call up Santa Fe and speak to someone who actually had seen one of these devices before. I doubt that many of the Santa Fe'ers will up and move to Germany. People are always replaceable over the long term, it is only in the short term that there loss is irreplaceable. Jeff On Mar 5, 2007, at 4:35 PM, Franz Sch?nhofer wrote: > Jeff, > > please forgive the "holes" in my memory: Didn't Eberline purchase a > German > company a few decades ago? People there were very unhappy about > this. I have > even bought a few instruments of both the original and the new > company. Now > it seems more profitable to have R&D being done in Germany. That's > one of > the typical results of globalisation. All around the world > companies are > suffering from that - why not an US company? - O.k. I am now > according to > some other RADSAFErs sending an anti-US comment. Let it be. > > Best regards, > > Franz > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > MinRat i.R. > Habicherg. 31/7 > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > AUSTRIA > > From didi at tgi-sci.com Mon Mar 5 17:41:15 2007 From: didi at tgi-sci.com (Dimiter Popoff) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 1:41:15 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: End of an Era Message-ID: <45ECC737-11-9D8AFEC7@mail.tgi-sci.com> > I hate Windows programs. I wish that scientific instrument > manufacturers would provide linux software at a minimum. Not many do, it is so easy to make some software under windows which _looks_ like a decent instrument without having (to pay for) much expertise. By the moment the user finds out how cumbersome any windows based device is (how long it takes to boot, how often windows goes out for lunch with the hard disk etc.) it is too late, they have bought it. In todays world, users expect transparent internet access to their equipment; making this independently (i.e. without having a PC, windows or linux based) takes more resources than most equipment manufacturers have. And how many can deliver a device not only networkable, but usable without needing a wintel PC, with its own OS and everything... I can count up to 1 so far :-). Dimiter ------------------------------------------------------ Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments http://www.tgi-sci.com ------------------------------------------------------ > From: Jeff Terry > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era > Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:53:18 -0600 > To: radsafelist > > Actually, this really is a shame. I hope that some of them make the > move down to Ludlum. This has been in the works for some time now. If > anyone needs backup manuals for older instruments, the time to ask is > now. > > I hate Windows programs. I wish that scientific instrument > manufacturers would provide linux software at a minimum. > > I guess that loss on knowledge is one of dangers of selling out to > large multinational corporations. > > Jeff > > On Mar 5, 2007, at 11:39 AM, J. Marshall Reber wrote: > > > I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their > > Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and > > service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more > > than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, > > repair service will all be done in South Carolina. > > > > Throw out your little screwdrivers - - - future instrument > > adjustment and calibrations will all be done by Windows program > > interaction. Digitize your thought processes or become out-of- > > date! All analog circuitry will be done by digital emulation. > > People replaced by robots - - - where will it end? Oh the > > humanity, the humanity!!! > > > > _______________________________________________ > > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// > > radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other > > settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Mon Mar 5 17:47:48 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 18:47:48 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] radiation fear strikes again ? References: <0F8BD87EE693D411A1A500508BAC86F70B4F5B27@sps13.aecl.ca> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F26B@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> -----Original Message----- From: Franta, Jaroslav Sent: Mon 3/5/2007 10:30 AM To: Radsafe (E-mail) The ultraviolet imaging spectrometer--Alice--kicked off needlessly during the approach to the planet, costing star-occultation data on the atmospheres of some of Jupiter's moons. "We should never have trip wires and set points for safety lower than they need to be," says New Horizons Principal Investigator Alan Stern. "We sort of stubbed our toe by not thinking it through well enough." Right Jaro, The "radiation fear" paradigm all over. "Radiation protection" continues to do it by orders of magnitude. :-) Regards, Jim From FloodJR at nv.doe.gov Mon Mar 5 18:20:01 2007 From: FloodJR at nv.doe.gov (Flood, John) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 16:20:01 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5E4@gdses.corp.gds.com> References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net> <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5E4@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <3F9210628ADD1D44949E7FD0841A6B2B6CE16E@NTS-VPO1-WS.NTS.OPS> It is my understanding that much design and manufacturing is moving from Santa Fe to Ohio, while calibration and repair will go to South Carolina as stated earlier. Some of the instruments come from the German part of the Thermo empire, which has its own design & production, and that will continue. How many of the Santa Fe workforce will end up with a Thermo job elsewhere, and how many will be laid off I couldn't even guess. Bob Flood Nevada Test Site -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 1:09 PM To: 'J. Marshall Reber'; 'radsafelist' Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era Are you sure that these operations aren't being consolidated in their new manufacturing facility located in Oakbrook, OH? Thermo employees do monitor this list, so we might get some more details regarding this. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of J. Marshall Reber Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:40 AM To: radsafelist Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From ray2hoover at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 18:20:52 2007 From: ray2hoover at yahoo.com (Raymond A Hoover) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 16:20:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <223925.87069.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <995653.77922.qm@web60217.mail.yahoo.com> Actually, Roosevelt had a number of Soviet agents on his staff (the U.S. didn't know it at the time of course). In point of fact Rossevelt's chief adviser at the Malta conference was a Soviet agent. Stalin knew more about the Manhatten Project than Truman did when he took over from Roosevelt. Let me also point out that the Soviets and the Nazis (bet you didn't know that Nazi is an acronym for National Socialst, i.e. the Nazis were socialists) had more than one agreement during the inter war period. The Soviets provided training areas for the German army in exchange for advanced training, the Ribbentrop-Molotov agreement that partitioned Poland are two examples). While it is true that Stalin was constantly asking for a second front, the West hadn't abandoned him. The U.S. provided a great deal of assistance the Soviets that allowed them to continue fighting. As one example when I was in Kiev I toured a War Museum. In one corner of the museum there sat a DC-3. The sign on the walkway said it was a Soviet plane. It was either a copy of some of the U.S. support. The U.S. gave the Soviets lots of infrastructure support (vehicles, food, medicine, etc). most of which was never aknowledged by the Soviets. None of this is related to adiation stuff of course. John Jacobus wrote: Steve, I don't think there was any "love affair" between FDR and Stalin. After WWI there was a powerful isolationist movement in this country. Our entry into WWII was delayed by the "America First" movement, a member of which was the American hero Charles Lindbergh. http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/americafirst.html Also, there was fear of the rise Communism. And who better to fight the Communist that the Facists? Even before the US entered the European front, we had arrangements with Britain, e.g., Lend-Lease policy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease At the outset of our involvement, Stalin pushed for a second front. Instead the US and Britain push through North Africa, into the Mediterranian. Basically, the Soviet Union breed the Nazis with their own soldiers and citizens until we finally invaded Normandy. --- Steven Dapra wrote: Rest deleted. --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. From LNMolino at aol.com Mon Mar 5 20:08:23 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 21:08:23 EST Subject: [ RadSafe ] Record-Low Production Costs, Near-Record Output Mark Stellar Year for U.S. Message-ID: Record-Low Production Costs, Near-Record Output Mark Stellar Year for U.S. Nuclear Power Plants WASHINGTON, D.C., Feb. 20, 2007?U.S. nuclear power plants in 2006 supplied the second-highest amount of electricity in the industry?s history while achieving record-low production costs, according to preliminary figures released today by the Nuclear Energy Institute. The 103 commercial nuclear plants operating in 31 states generated 787.6 billion kilowatt-hours (kwh) of electricity last year, second only to the record-high of 788.5 billion kwh of electricity produced in 2004. Nuclear energy supplies electricity to one of every five homes and businesses. It also supplies nearly 75 percent of the electricity that comes from sources, including renewable technologies and hydroelectric power plants, that do not emit controlled pollutants or greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. [Ummm. The NEI could do better than that. Let's be honest. Nukes emit CO2 on par with wind, but in contrast can provide power nearly 24/7. They also release trivial amounts of radioisotopes, technically pollutants. - JH] The industry?s average production costs?encompassing expenses for uranium fuel and operations and maintenance?were an all-time low of 1.66 cents/kwh in 2006, according to preliminary figures. Average production costs have been below 2 cents/kwh for the past eight years, making nuclear power plants highly cost competitive with other electricity sources, particularly those that are capable of reliably producing large amounts of electricity. [Add about 2 cents per kWh for capital, and 3 cents per kWh for transmission. IMO. - JH] ?The consistent safe, high performance and efficient operation of the nation?s nuclear plants provides overwhelming evidence that our business model is working and buttresses the case for building a new generation of advanced-design plants to help America meet its energy needs,? said Frank L. (Skip) Bowman, NEI president and chief executive officer. Electricity production at nuclear power plants has increased 36 percent since 1990, adding the equivalent of more than 26 large power plants to the electrical grid and preventing the emission of massive amounts of controlled air pollutants and greenhouse gases if that increase in baseload, or around-the-clock, electricity production instead had been met by fossil-fired power plants. Amid concerns about future energy security and the threat of global climate change, and with the nation?s electricity needs projected to increase 40 percent over the next 25 years, a growing chorus of supporters?spanning policymakers, leading environmentalists, business leaders and the public at large?is advocating the construction of new nuclear power plants. The Energy Policy Act of 2005 included incentives for a limited number of advanced-design nuclear plants among its provisions encouraging improved energy efficiency and the construction of renewable energy sources and cleaner fossil-fired power plants. The average production cost dropped to a record-low even though prices for uranium fuel have increased considerably over the past three years. Production costs are a key measure of an electricity source?s competitiveness in the market because generating companies typically dispatch their low-cost electricity to the grid first. Even when expenses for taxes, decommissioning and yearly capital additions are added to production costs to yield a total electricity cost, nuclear-generated electricity typically clears the market for less than 2.5 cents/kwh. By comparison, production costs alone for natural gas-fired power plants averaged 7.5 cents/kwh in 2005, according to Global Energy Decisions data. [New plants slightly more expensive, but still looking good. - JH] The industry?s average capacity factor?a measure of efficiency?was 89.9 percent last year, according to preliminary figures. That is slightly higher than 2005?s 89.3 percent; the industry?s record-high of 90.3 percent was set in 2002. ?It?s going to take a collaborative effort of all forms of electricity generation, as well as much-improved efficiency, to meet the sizable energy needs that our nation faces,? Bowman said. ?Still, the exceptional performance achieved at U.S. nuclear power plants in 2006 shows that the nation?s future energy security hinges in part upon increased reliance on clean, safe and affordable nuclear energy.? Final figures on the industry?s 2006 performance are expected within about two months. ### http://www.nei.org/index.asp?catnum=4&catid=1014 Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From sandyfl at cox.net Mon Mar 5 20:28:21 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:28:21 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Slovaks and Czechs among the biggest nuclear energy supporters in EU Message-ID: <45EC6145.5132.5DAA8EB@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: *Slovaks and Czechs among the biggest nuclear energy supporters in EU *Firm aims to reopen nuclear plant *State flags referendum on nuclear power *GCC has right to pursue nuclear energy: Saudi *Nuclear power not the only thing Alternate Energy has in mind --------------------------------------------------------------------- Slovaks and Czechs among the biggest nuclear energy supporters in EU - Eurobarometer poll PRAGUE (Inertrfax) MARCH 5. INTERFAX CENTRAL EUROPE - Citizens of Slovakia and the Czech Republic - both new European Union member states which have nuclear power plants - are among the biggest supporters of nuclear energy within the EU, according to a Eurobarometer poll released Monday. "Sweden tops the ranking (27%), followed by Finland, Slovakia and Bulgaria (all 24%)," the Eurobarometer poll said. "In these countries the share nuclear energy represents in total electricity production ranges from about a third in Finland to 56% in Slovakia." The survey noted two factors appear to have an effect on public opinion at country level: whether a country has nuclear power plants (NPP) in operation and, to a certain extent, the share of nuclear energy in total electricity generation in each country. The highest proportions of EU citizens who say that the share of nuclear energy should be increased are found in countries where there are functional NPPs, according to Eurobarometer. "High numbers of respondents who would like to keep the proportion of nuclear energy the same are also found in countries where [plants] are in operation, namely the Czech Republic (51%), Hungary (50%), Finland (47%), Slovenia and Slovakia (both 46%)," the poll found. Fifteen EU states have nuclear power plants: Belgium, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Lithuania, Spain, the Netherlands, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Sweden, the United Kingdom. The twelve EU states that do not have nuclear power plants are Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Luxembourg, Malta, Poland and Portugal. ----------------- Firm aims to reopen nuclear plant Hinkley Point B is due to be decommissioned in 2011 British Energy has applied for permission to reopen Hinkley B nuclear power station in Somerset, after six months of repair work. The station was closed in September last year for repairs to cracked pipes in the boiler system. The Stop Hinkley Campaign Group says it is not safe and British Energy will be taking a huge chance by operating it. The power station, which costs about ?1m a day to run, is due to be decommissioned in 2011. Campaign group spokesperson Jim Duffy said: "We're already passed the effective life of this nuclear reactor and what's happening is that Hinkley are acting on a string and a prayer." He said the fact that it took three months longer than expected to complete the repairs meant it was not safe. However, Nigel Cann director of Hinkley B section, said if the units were not in a position to start up safely, then they would not. "Our responsibility to the safety of the public and our staff members is always our number one priority," he said. The Nuclear Installations Inspectorate is expected to make its decision by the end of the month. -------------- State flags referendum on nuclear power SOUTH Australian Premier Mike Rann says he will call a referendum on nuclear power if the Federal Government moves to override state bans on such a power plant in SA. Mr Rann today said he would introduce legislation to parliament that would trigger the referendum if the Commonwealth pushed the issue. "It now appears the Prime Minister is becoming a champion of domestic nuclear power generation and his government is actively promoting the idea of overturning laws to allow their establishment in Australia," Mr Rann said. "I believe this is an issue of such significance and controversy that the people should be given a direct say in whether they want nuclear power plants built in South Australia." Mr Rann said his position was clear and his government would always oppose nuclear power because it was financially irresponsible, economically unviable and would massively force up the price of power. But he said if the community wanted to debate the pros and cons of nuclear power then a referendum would provide a platform to help people make an informed judgment. "If the Federal Government is so sure that nuclear power stations are a good idea, then it should welcome the opportunity for the people of South Australia to have a say," the Premier said. ------------- GCC has right to pursue nuclear energy: Saudi (The Peninsula) Mar 6 - The First Deputy Premier and Foreign Minister H E Sheikh Hamad bin Jassem bin Jabor Al Thani attending the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) meeting in Riyadh yesterday. Gulf nations warn against attack on Iran Riyadh o Saudi Arabia said yesterday that Iran?s nuclear programme was an extra burden on a region already fraught with challenges, but that Gulf allies had the right to their own peaceful atomic ambitions. Foreign Ministers of the six-member Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states were meeting in the Saudi capital to discuss progress in their plans for a joint civil atomic programme that has raised fears of a nuclear race with Iran. They agreed at a summit in December to study the feasibility of developing nuclear energy. "The nuclear crisis in the region has become an extra burden to challenges that are already facing us," Saudi Foreign Affairs Minister Prince Saud Al Faisal told the meeting. "This urges us to deal with the new challenge with full responsibility ... and adopt diplomatic solutions in a way that would preserve the right of countries in the region for their own nuclear energy for peaceful purposes." Prince Saud also criticised Israel, which is widely believed to have the Middle East?s only nuclear arsenal. "The International Atomic Energy Agency standards and measures should apply to all countries in the region without exceptions, including Israel." Earlier, GCC Secretary-General Abdul-Rahman Al Attiyah, who visited the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) last month, said he would brief the meeting about plans to cooperate with the UN nuclear watchdog. In Abu Dhabi, meanwhile, Al Attiyah said the GCC states oppose any attack on Iran over its nuclear programme. "We reject any escalation of the crisis relative to this dossier (that could) lead to a military confrontation that could have negative consequences and lead to catastrophe," the GCC Secretary-General said. "A political solution to the crisis over the Iranian nuclear dossier still has a chance," he said at the start of a conference on Gulf security in Abu Dhabi. GCC member states have in the past voiced concern about an eventual air strike on Iran?s nuclear facilities and the potentially catastrophic environmental consequences. The GCC?s decision to pursue a nuclear programme has raised concerns that Arab states may want to protect themselves if Iran acquires nuclear weapons. Gulf states have expressed concern over Iran?s nuclear programme which the United States says could be aimed at making bombs. Tehran says its programme is peaceful. Gulf states say their nuclear programme will be used for power generation. ------------- Nuclear power not the only thing Alternate Energy has in mind (News Advance) Mar 5 - Its critics call Alternate Energy Holdings Inc. inexperienced. After all, the small Thaxton-based firm has never built a nuclear power plant. The start-up alternative energy firm in Bedford County put a 4,000- acre tract in Idaho under contract in February for $20 million - and plans to build a nuclear power plant there. It also has entered into negotiations with AREVA NP to use its "next- generation" nuclear reactor at the Idaho site. When talking about this, company president and chief executive officer Don Gillispie just sits back and smiles. He realizes his company?s ambitions might seem comparable to a child with big dreams to an outsider. He said his company may be new, it may be small, but it has the skills. The company may not have the experience, he said, but its board does. "I think if you count amongst our board members we?ve built 12 (nuclear) plants," Gillispie said. Former senior executives in the utilities and investment industries founded the alternative energy company. Its current board members include a former vice president of the Nuclear Energy Institute (NEI), a former executive director for operations of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and several former board members of nuclear utility regulator Institute of Nuclear Power Operations. If its ambitious plan succeeds, the firm?s Idaho project would be the first nuclear-generating plant in the United States since the 1970s. According to a company news release, "The proposed plant was originally requested by the Rural River Co-op to assist with local farmers? irrigation needs. "Subject to regulatory approval, AEHI is considering further involvement in the Idaho agricultural community, primarily by using surplus heat from the plant to lower the high cost of producing bioethanol from locally grown grain." Alternate Energy?s board is not alone in its way of thinking. NEI spokesman Mitchell Singer said 19 companies have announced their intention to build a nuclear plant, including Alternate Energy and Amarillo Power in Texas. "If everything moves ahead as we it expect it will, construction on a new plant will start 2012," Singer said. Amarillo Power is the brain child of Amarillo, Texas, developer George Chapman, who is attempting to bring an estimated $5 billion nuclear power plant to that part of the country. Attempts to contact Chapman were unsuccessful. Like Alternate Energy, Amarillo Power has never built a nuclear power plant. Stephanie Coffin, branch manager for the NRC Office of New Reactors, said Amarillo Power is the only company to file with the NRC that isn?t currently operating a nuclear power plant. Alternate Energy is awaiting the geologists report on the Idaho property before it files. `Shocking? alternatives Alternate Energy?s big ideas don?t stop with nuclear power. Like any company, Gillispie said, Alternate Energy has to look at supply and demand. He said utility companies usually have to worry about the supply side. His firm not only wants to make energy available, but efficient as well. The firm has a few projects in the works to make that possible, including lightning harvesting, a fuel additive, a new system to remove carbon dioxide at power plants and a system to convert coal into synthetic natural gas. Benjamin Franklin is credited with harnessing electricity with a kite and a key in a lightning storm. Alternate Energy currently has a patent to do something similar, without its five employees standing in a thunderstorm. Gillispie said a pole with an electric charge will attract currents in the air. It will sit on about 50-acres of open land. The currents would travel down the pole into a series of ground wires where it would be converted into electricity and stored. The average lightning bolt contains approximately one million kilowatts of electrical energy. According to the Department of Energy?s Web site, its not conducting research on the viability of lightning-generated power. Gillispie said he was approached by Israeli native Steve LeRoy about the project. LeRoy had worked on the lightning-harvesting project for 22 years. Gillispie said the Department of Defense offered to purchase the project, but LeRoy turned it down because he thought the department would use the technology as a weapon. Alternate Energy has had success with the prototype on a smaller scale. It even got into a bit of trouble with the Federal Communications Commission because the electrical currents going into the prototype were messing with neighbors? TV reception. "Our plan is to try to get it built (to scale) by this summer," Gillispie said. Another idea in the works is mini reactors. Mini reactors are actually an old concept, Gillispie said. The reactors are just what they sound like - small nuclear reactors that are used to power boats, airplanes and maybe one day the space shuttle. Gillispie said the project is in the preliminary phases right now. His firm is currently working on a container that will hold the mini reactors. --------------- NUCLEAR RACE Incentives, global warming concerns have power companies scrambling to plan new reactors (The Times-Picayune) Mar 4 - At River Bend nuclear power plant in St. Francisville, a crater about the size of two football fields was originally supposed to house the site's second nuclear reactor. The abandoned crater is representative of more than 60 nuclear reactors throughout the United States that were canceled in the 1970s and 1980s because of rising construction costs, a slowdown in energy demand and changing regulations because of a nuclear accident at Three Mile Island near Hershey, Pa. Since then, the nation's 103 nuclear plants have been supplying about 17 percent of the nation's energy. Not a single new reactor has broken ground. But spurred by more than $12 billion in federal incentives, a growing concern about global warming and rising demand for energy, the nuclear industry is undergoing a gold rush of sorts, as companies jockey to be first in line to build a new plant. "We are looking to finance the first movers," said Craig Stevens, press secretary for the federal Department of Energy. "We want to create an environment where nuclear reactors can be built." About 15 companies, including Entergy Nuclear, have announced they are considering building as many as 33 new reactors -- including at Entergy's River Bend plant and its Grand Gulf plant in Port Gibson, Miss., according to the Nuclear Energy Institute. Entergy says such a new plant could be operating in 2015 at the soonest. The companies say nuclear power could bring more fuel diversity to the nation and provide the only large-scale emission free power. "It's critical that nuclear be a part of the climate change calculus," said Jim Owen, a spokesman for the Edison Electric Institute, an electric company trade group. But as the prospect of more nuclear plants comes closer to reality, environmentalists are questioning the economics of building such expensive plants and the rationale of supplanting pollution from fossil fuels with the problems associated with nuclear fuel production and waste. "The environmental footprint of nuclear is phenomenal. It far exceeds any other form of energy generation," said Geoff Fettus, an attorney at the Natural Resources Defense Council. "And putting all of that aside, the economics don't work. We could be doing a lot better things with our money." Because no plants have been built for so long, there is no reliable estimate of how much a new plant will cost, according to the Energy Information Agency. Estimates range from $2.5 billion to more than $8 billion per unit. Spiraling costs As the last round of nuclear plants was being built in the late 1970s and early 1980s, several events came together and ended the development of new nuclear plants for decades. First, initial construction costs for many of the proposed plants were underestimated. Then, following the accident at Three Mile Island in Pennsylvania, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission tightened regulations and standards for nuclear plants, creating even more cost overruns. Advertisement Plants that were initially expected to cost a few hundred million dollars ended up costing a few billion. River Bend was estimated to cost $307 million in 1971. By the time it was finished in 1985, the plant cost $4.4 billion. Additionally, high interest rates doomed some projects. "In the 1970s when construction ended, the most expensive component was the interest on the loan," Stevens said. And predictions of rising demand for electricity turned out to be false, limiting the need for new sources. Those financial and regulatory obstacles had to be overcome to encourage the development of new nuclear plants. The Department of Energy tackled one of those issues in 2003 when it offered to pay 50 percent of the $50 million to $90 million cost of licensing to groups that were willing to try out the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's new, streamlined licensing process. Previously, companies had to apply to the commission for a license to construct a plant. When construction was completed, they had to return to the commission to obtain a license to operate the plant. The two-phase licensing gave critics more opportunity to oppose the project, ultimately slowing it down, Stevens said. A consortium of companies called NuStart Energy, whose members include Entergy Nuclear, Exelon Generation, FP&L, General Electric and Westinghouse, took advantage of the Energy Department's offer and are applying to obtain combined construction and operating licenses for new reactors at Grand Gulf in Mississippi and at Bellefonte in Alabama, which is owned by the Tennessee Valley Authority. NuStart plans to submit its construction and operating licenses this year. Once the licenses are obtained, NuStart will turn the process over to the reactor's owners. Entergy says it hasn't made a decision on whether it will build a plant, but it wants to have the option to do so, said Randy Hutchinson, senior vice president of development for Entergy Nuclear Inc. "It's a serious phase to preserve the nuclear option," he said. The Department of Energy also has offered risk insurance to the first six nuclear reactors to break ground. The first two companies to start construction will be eligible for as much as $500 million in insurance to hedge against bureaucratic and legal delays, and the next four will receive $250 million. The first six companies will also receive tax credits of as much as 1.6 cents per hour for new power generation. The government is also offering loan guarantees to companies that apply for them. Nuclear industry critics say if nuclear were a good investment, the companies would be building the plants on their own, without taxpayer underwriting. "This is an astronomical amount of money that is being used to subsidize a mature polluting industry," Fettus said. A spokeswoman for the Nuclear Energy Institute said the industry is asking help to get the new plants off the ground. "What the industry seeks from Congress is limited investment in a limited number of new plants for a limited time," Melanie Lyons said. Uniform construction In addition to the incentives and regulatory changes, the way the reactors will be designed and built has changed dramatically, company executives said. For instance, during the last generation of nuclear plants, reactors were designed as they were constructed, and each was unique. The new generation of nuclear plants will be standard throughout the industry and will be largely designed before construction begins, Hutchinson said. Those designs also will contain fewer pieces of equipment and will be "passive safe," meaning that they will be safer to operate and maintain and will automatically shut down in case of an accident, said Garry Young, who is handling the licensing process for the proposed reactor at River Bend. Paul Gunter of the Reactor Watchdog Project said that in the companies' efforts to reduce costs, the new round of plants will be less safe, and "profit margins are pitted against safety and security." Experts in the field Entergy would try to avoid cost overruns by putting one contractor, General Electric, in charge of the project. Previously, the company managed several different contractors. We'll sign one contract. We will be dealing with one person with accountability to get the job done on budget and on schedule," Hutchinson said. Another advantage comes into play for Entergy: its experience in the nuclear field. The company is the second-largest nuclear operator in the nation behind Exelon. The company had reactors in Louisiana, Arkansas and Mississippi in 1998, when it decided to expand its reach and make nuclear a "core" business. "At that time, when most utilities wanted to divest their nuclear units, Entergy Nuclear knew that the 103 nuclear plants across the nation had unrealized value and potential that could be tapped by a knowledgeable, experienced nuclear operator," said Diane Park, a spokeswoman for Entergy's nuclear business development unit. Since then, Entergy has acquired five more reactors. It is preparing to close on a sixth reactor in Michigan. It also operates a plant in Nebraska. "It's a very big part of our business today, and we see that more and more going forward," Hutchinson said. Nuclear amounts to 30 percent of Entergy's power capacity but closer to 50 percent of its actual generation, he said. The company's experience in the nuclear field allows the company to operate plants more efficiently and with economies of scale, Park said. Lately, the nuclear division has proven to be a strong revenue stream as the demand for nuclear power has risen because of higher fossil fuel prices. In 2006, Entergy Nuclear earned $309.5 million, compared to $282.6 million in 2005, largely because of higher contract pricing and higher generation, according to the company. No greenhouse gases Nuclear power has come to the forefront in recent years as a potential solution to global warming. Demand for power is growing, as is pressure on the energy industry to reduce carbon dioxide emissions. "Nuclear is the only large base-load power supply that doesn't emit greenhouse gases," Hutchinson said. The industry has even adopted the slogan "Go Nuclear: Because you care about the air." If Congress taxes carbon dioxide-producing fossil fuels, nuclear power, which wouldn't be taxed, could become a very affordable option for electricity. "Such a tax would further encourage nuclear development from a cost standpoint," Hutchinson said. Based on the long time and expense it takes to build a nuclear plant, Fettus said, Congress should be encouraging other forms of emission- free energy, such as wind and solar. "Nuclear has the longest cost and the longest time frame," Fettus said. "We have a short and limited time frame" in which to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Waste concerns Although many of the stumbling blocks for new nuclear plants have been overcome with new incentives and changes in regulations, the question of what to do with the nuclear fuel once it's used is still problematic. "There is the long-term cost of nuclear waste," Gunter said. "The future generation won't get one watt but will have to deal with this waste." Federal law requires that the Department of Energy locate and operate a repository for nuclear waste, and in 2002, 20 years after the law was passed, Congress agreed that Yucca Mountain in Nevada would be that site. The Energy Department has said it will open the repository in 2017. But questions about the site's suitability persist. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has said he will continue to work to block completion of the project. He told United Press International in December that "Yucca Mountain is dead. It'll never happen." Until Yucca Mountain or another repository begins taking the nuclear waste, companies must store the nuclear waste on-site. At River Bend, huge concrete casks are being built to store nuclear waste. Each cask costs $2 million to $3 million each, said Randy King, director of nuclear safety assurance at River Bend. Those costs are passed on to customers. Future unclear It's anyone's guess as to how many new nuclear reactors will be built or when. The Nuclear Energy Institute says it's too early to even speculate. Entergy hasn't decided whether it will build any reactors, including the two it has proposed. "We clearly have not made a decision to build at this time," Hutchinson said. "It's clear that we are going to have to add base load. It's clear that it will be nuclear or coal or clean coal." Hutchinson and Owen of the Edison Electric Institute say that even if new nuclear plants are built, it won't be the only new source of electricity needed. James Hewlett, an analyst at the Department of Energy's Energy Information Agency, has been watching the nuclear industry for 20 years. He said the resurgence of nuclear should have been anticipated. "Once you had an administration that is pro-nuclear -- combine that with global warming and it's not surprising. I'm just surprised it's happened this quick." ---------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From sjd at swcp.com Mon Mar 5 19:52:23 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:52:23 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <223925.87069.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304192538.009ed130@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070305183224.009f1120@mail.swcp.com> March 5 John -- With respect to the love affair, I believe historians would say that FDR had a rather high view of Stalin. "Love affair" might be a bit hyperbolic. One of my favorite expressions is "words only mean what they are defined to mean." How does one define "isolationism"? I believe this word is a pejorative, and I prefer to use the phrase "minding our own business." I'm certain there was plenty of trade and travel between the US and the European countries after WWI, and I would not call that isolationism. Someone once made the trenchant observation that there would be peace on earth when the governments of the world had as little to do with each other as possible, and the people of the world had as much to do with each other as they freely chose to have. One of the chief difference between Communism and Fascism/Nazism is that the former has always been an explicitly international movement and the latter have always been national movements. We can easily dispense with Mussolini by pointing out that all he wanted was to be in charge in Italy and have one or two African colonies as a way of impressing someone -- perhaps merely himself. According to the historiography I have read about Hitler, he had some grandiose schemes about conquering the USSR, however his plans for what to do with it were vague at best. Even his alliance with Japan is suspect, for it seems that AH viewed the Japanese as being something less than human. They certainly were not Aryans. In general terms I am familiar with Lend-Lease, and before the US declared war on the Axis Powers L-L was a means of fighting the Reich by proxy. Stalin wanted a second front to relieve the pressure from the West. Nazi Germany never attacked the US despite Roosevelt's provocations, and I cannot justify our waging war against it. Of course the link, or justification, was the Japanese treaty with Germany, but I think that is a rather weak rationale for going to war with a nation that posed no threat to us. Historians tell us that AH knew he could never beat the US, and that is why he never took FDR up on his provocations. Steve At 09:48 AM 3/5/07 -0800, John Jacobus wrote: >Steve, >I don't think there was any "love affair" between FDR >and Stalin. After WWI there was a powerful >isolationist movement in this country. Our entry into >WWII was delayed by the "America First" movement, a >member of which was the American hero Charles >Lindbergh. >http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/americafirst.html > >Also, there was fear of the rise Communism. And who >better to fight the Communist that the Facists? > >Even before the US entered the European front, we had >arrangements with Britain, e.g., Lend-Lease policy. >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease > >At the outset of our involvement, Stalin pushed for a >second front. Instead the US and Britain push through >North Africa, into the Mediterranian. Basically, the >Soviet Union breed the Nazis with their own soldiers >and citizens until we finally invaded Normandy. > >--- Steven Dapra wrote: > > > March 4 > > > > Are we proud we exercised restraint and > > allowed tens of millions > > to be killed by Communism in the USSR and Red China? > > No. Instead > > Roosevelt fawned and simpered over Stalin and FDR > > shoved through diplomatic > > relations with "Uncle Joe." Stalin's mass homicides > > and his show trials in > > the 1930s didn't interfere with FDR's love affair > > with Stalin, nor did they > > interfere with the same love affair of domestic > > left-wing extremists (who > > were so violently anti-fascist). > > > > In order of death toll, Mao Tse-tung was > > worst, followed by > > Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, and (probably) Pol Pot. > > > > Funny isn't it, how we continue to maintain > > diplomatic relations > > withour "ungrateful European friends." > > > > Steven Dapra [edit] From sjd at swcp.com Mon Mar 5 21:18:32 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 20:18:32 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Stephen Dapra's Comments In-Reply-To: <003e01c75f51$a11de870$d5a290c6@LAPTOP2> References: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070305192831.009f09f0@mail.swcp.com> March 5 At 01:10 PM 3/5/07 -0500, Shawn Hughes \(Road2\) wrote: Stephen; [sic] I'm not going to play 'cut and paste' commando with you. You seem passionate about foisting your opinion, no matter how liberal or revisionistic it may be upon the rest of us. <> I, and many others like me disagree. <> For instance: "Since the inception of Homeland Security/TSA I have read many stories in the popular press about their heavy-handed and tyrannical Behavior" I am trying to recall.... What do we call those that label a race or group of people after making a snap judgement using a few observations? Oh - and 'many stories'. How many is many? Especially considering over 600 MILLION people flew in just US domestic flights last year. But, I am certain you'll have many witty anecdotes that perfectly dovetail your position to refute anything I say. Bravo! <> Anyway, you are welcome to keep your position and point of view. Absolutely none of this has to do with radiation protection. I have zero interest in turning this list into alt.theorys.speculation.world.politics because I have been very tired of hearing the others argue, so it seems wrong of me to perpetuate it. I responded only because I didn't want you to think your blinding insight silenced me. ;) -Shawn <> May I point out that you made no attempt to address any of the factual claims I made in my message below? All you did was hurl insults and objurgations. In your initial message you described yourself as "a person peripherially [sic] in the Homeland Security Field". If you have this much anger and defensiveness as someone on the periphery, I would hate to meet someone who is in the middle of homeland security. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com Steven Dapra wrote: March 4 Since the inception of Homeland Security/TSA I have read many stories in the popular press about their heavy-handed and tyrannical behavior, their bullying of passengers, pawing the heads of six-year-old girls (feeling for shoe bombs I suppose), and so forth. The aged and wheel-chair-bound mother-in-law of a personal friend of mine has been forced to partially undress by HS/TSA "inspectors" (or whatever sanitized label someone wants to use) before she is allowed on an airplane. I read a report of a passenger with metal in his body from surgical repairs who took x-rays with him to the airport and tried to show the "inspectors" the x-rays. The "inspectors" REFUSED to look at them. It's a long list of bad behavior. Shawn Hughes (SH) (see his complete message below) wrote: "Those of you that think 'leaving them alone abroad' or similar pap are very, very ignorant of the past 100 years of terrorism." This is false. I am not thinking "pap" and I am not "very, very ignorant" of 100 years of terrorism. (SH:) "Remaining silent and impartial about events in SouthWest Asia makes as much sense as the US staying out of WWII." You appear to be "very, very ignorant" of events leading up to US entry into WWII. Even establishment historians agree that the Roosevelt administration diligently tried to induce the Third Reich to attack the United States. They also acknowledge that FDR hounded and badgered Japan, behavior that led to the attack on Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt's foreign policy got the US into World War II. SW Asia is well outside of our sphere of interest, plus our meddling is the cause of many of the "events" there. Since you are so hot to meddle, did you remain "silent and impartial" when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1979? The reason this "slowly coalescing group of people" wants to kill us is because we keep sticking our national nose in their business. If we go around sticking our nose in their business long enough we are going to get punched it that nose, and that is what happened on September 11. (Try reading Pape's book like I suggested.) Ireland and Botswana (and all other nations) are best qualified to solve their internal problems. We can't even stop drunk drivers, child molesters, and drug dealers in the US of A. What business do we have telling anyone else what to do? I don't think there is any "lack of interest in security on this forum" (i.e. RADSAFE). There are some differences about how to provide security, as well as some differences about the underlying reasons for our current predicament with airplane hijackers, explosive-laden human bombers, and suicide truck bombers. I reiterate emphatically that minding everyone's business but our own is guaranteed to get us more of the same. I'll go further and say people who believe in night stick, Taser, and gun barrel security are getting, (or already have) a case of tunnel vision that says security consists of bully-ragging people, ignoring their x-rays, threatening them, or dragging them off in handcuffs. A lot of this so-called security consists of shoving people around, and of treating the symptoms instead of the disease. END From sjd at swcp.com Mon Mar 5 21:19:22 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 20:19:22 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <995653.77922.qm@web60217.mail.yahoo.com> References: <223925.87069.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070305194222.009faca0@mail.swcp.com> March 5 Who was the Soviet agent at Malta -- oops -- did you mean Yalta? I knew about the National Socialist acronym. That "Soviet" DC-3 may have been one that was reverse engineered from some US planes that were forced to land in Siberia. (Forced by bad weather and lack of fuel for the return trip to a US-controlled base.) Stalin refused to return the planes -- in effect he stole them. I don't know what happened to the crews. I also cannot remember where I read about this. Steven Dapra At 04:20 PM 3/5/07 -0800, Raymond A Hoover wrote: >Actually, Roosevelt had a number of Soviet agents on his staff (the U.S. >didn't know it at the time of course). In point of fact Rossevelt's chief >adviser at the Malta conference was a Soviet agent. Stalin knew more >about the Manhatten Project than Truman did when he took over from Roosevelt. > >Let me also point out that the Soviets and the Nazis (bet you didn't know >that Nazi is an acronym for National Socialst, i.e. the Nazis were >socialists) had more than one agreement during the inter war period. The >Soviets provided training areas for the German army in exchange for >advanced training, the Ribbentrop-Molotov agreement that partitioned >Poland are two examples). > >While it is true that Stalin was constantly asking for a second front, the >West hadn't abandoned him. The U.S. provided a great deal of assistance >the Soviets that allowed them to continue fighting. As one example when I >was in Kiev I toured a War Museum. In one corner of the museum there sat >a DC-3. The sign on the walkway said it was a Soviet plane. It was >either a copy of some of the U.S. support. The U.S. gave the Soviets lots >of infrastructure support (vehicles, food, medicine, etc). most of which >was never aknowledged by the Soviets. > >None of this is related to adiation stuff of course. > >John Jacobus wrote: >Steve, >I don't think there was any "love affair" between FDR >and Stalin. After WWI there was a powerful >isolationist movement in this country. Our entry into >WWII was delayed by the "America First" movement, a >member of which was the American hero Charles >Lindbergh. >http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/americafirst.html >Also, there was fear of the rise Communism. And who >better to fight the Communist that the Facists? >Even before the US entered the European front, we had >arrangements with Britain, e.g., Lend-Lease policy. >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease >At the outset of our involvement, Stalin pushed for a >second front. Instead the US and Britain push through >North Africa, into the Mediterranian. Basically, the >Soviet Union breed the Nazis with their own soldiers >and citizens until we finally invaded Normandy. >--- Steven Dapra wrote: >Rest deleted. > > >Want to start your own business? Learn how on >Yahoo! >Small Business. From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 6 00:16:00 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 22:16:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Nonsense title, but an interesting article... Message-ID: <125560.64819.qm@web81611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Public release date: 6-Mar-2007 Contact: Dr. Douglas Tincello dgt4 at le.ac.uk 1-162-588-391 University of Leicester Pioneering research into health benefits of beauty treatment A test recently used by the UK government?s Independent Depleted Uranium Oversight Board to detect exposure to UK troops by depleted uranium (DU) during the 1991 Gulf Conflict was developed by a team led by a University of Leicester geologist. Randall Parrish, Professor of Isotope Geology, developed the test with Postdoctoral Fellow Dr Axel Gerdes, who now works at the University of Frankfurt, Germany, and his colleague Matt Horstwood at the British Geological Survey, using advanced mass spectrometry. Prof Parrish?s team has tested more than 350 individuals as part of the programme, with the result that none so far tested had any demonstrable DU exposure resulting from their participation in the 1991 Gulf Conflict, though the extent of actual initial exposure of tested individuals to DU is unknown. Depleted uranium (DU) is a by-product from the manufacture of enriched uranium, used for fuel in nuclear reactors or in weapons. It is 60 per cent as radioactive as natural uranium. Because of its hardness, it has been used in engineering projects, as well as in the construction of military tanks and anti-tank weapons, such as those used in the 1991 Gulf War, in Bosnia in 1994-5, Kosovo in 1999 and in the latest conflict in Iraq. While DU weapons can reduce casualties amongst the forces using them, there may be long-term risks to the health of those exposed to them, either through shrapnel wounds or inhalation, and risks, also, to the environment. The test was designed to detect after 15 years even a modest exposure to DU, on the basis of accepted knowledge about the retention and solubility of DU in the human body. The test is applicable even to those who excrete extremely low levels of uranium in urine. Professor Parrish?s and his colleagues? work, undertaken to help in the planning of the UK DU testing programme, explored the sensitivity and accuracy of urine tests to measure uranium concentrations and isotope ratios. The testing programme was set up in 2001, to investigate concerns amongst UK Service personnel from the Balkans and the 1991 Gulf War, following media coverage about Depleted Uranium. Professor Parrish commented: ?Dr Gerdes and I continue to collaborate on this test, which is by far the most sensitive and accurate of all uranium isotope test for urine worldwide. It uses multiple isotopes to ascertain the extent of contamination. ?Our facility has used this test in the monitoring of more than 400 UK veterans of the 1991 Gulf War, under the testing programme administered by the Depleted Uranium Oversight Board over the past two and a half years ? a testing programme that is nearly finished.? ### --------------------------------- Roy Herren --------------------------------- Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 6 00:18:51 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 22:18:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Apparently the same article from a day earlier with a title that make sense Message-ID: <838953.71614.qm@web81610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Public release date: 5-Mar-2007 Contact: Randall Parrish rrp at nigl.nerc.ac.uk 01-159-363-427 University of Leicester Tests to reveal levels of depleted uranium in Army personnel A test recently used by the UK government?s Independent Depleted Uranium Oversight Board to detect exposure to UK troops by depleted uranium (DU) during the 1991 Gulf Conflict was developed by a team led by a University of Leicester geologist. Randall Parrish, Professor of Isotope Geology, developed the test with Postdoctoral Fellow Dr Axel Gerdes, who now works at the University of Frankfurt, Germany, and his colleague Matt Horstwood at the British Geological Survey, using advanced mass spectrometry. Prof Parrish?s team has tested more than 350 individuals as part of the programme, with the result that none so far tested had any demonstrable DU exposure resulting from their participation in the 1991 Gulf Conflict, though the extent of actual initial exposure of tested individuals to DU is unknown. Depleted uranium (DU) is a by-product from the manufacture of enriched uranium, used for fuel in nuclear reactors or in weapons. It is 60 per cent as radioactive as natural uranium. Because of its hardness, it has been used in engineering projects, as well as in the construction of military tanks and anti-tank weapons, such as those used in the 1991 Gulf War, in Bosnia in 1994-5, Kosovo in 1999 and in the latest conflict in Iraq. While DU weapons can reduce casualties amongst the forces using them, there may be long-term risks to the health of those exposed to them, either through shrapnel wounds or inhalation, and risks, also, to the environment. The test was designed to detect after 15 years even a modest exposure to DU, on the basis of accepted knowledge about the retention and solubility of DU in the human body. The test is applicable even to those who excrete extremely low levels of uranium in urine. Professor Parrish?s and his colleagues? work, undertaken to help in the planning of the UK DU testing programme, explored the sensitivity and accuracy of urine tests to measure uranium concentrations and isotope ratios. The testing programme was set up in 2001, to investigate concerns amongst UK Service personnel from the Balkans and the 1991 Gulf War, following media coverage about Depleted Uranium. Professor Parrish commented: "Dr Gerdes and I continue to collaborate on this test, which is by far the most sensitive and accurate of all uranium isotope test for urine worldwide. It uses multiple isotopes to ascertain the extent of contamination. "Our facility has used this test in the monitoring of more than 400 UK veterans of the 1991 Gulf War, under the testing programme administered by the Depleted Uranium Oversight Board over the past two and a half years ? a testing programme that is nearly finished." ### --------------------------------- Roy Herren --------------------------------- Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. From robert.atkinson at genetix.com Tue Mar 6 03:04:48 2007 From: robert.atkinson at genetix.com (Robert Atkinson) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 09:04:48 -0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era References: <82DF2703-764B-4914-9276-F24FE3853BE4@comcast.net><2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5E4@gdses.corp.gds.com> <3F9210628ADD1D44949E7FD0841A6B2B6CE16E@NTS-VPO1-WS.NTS.OPS> Message-ID: <260B27D627B0C84E864BAC459B702555061BBE@exch01.GENETIX.LOCAL> Hi, The lack of knowledge and support for older equipment is a concern. The bean counters would like to think that the customer has to buy one of their new instruments if they stop supporting the old ones. In actual fact a lot of users may not have funds immediately available to do this and struggle on. Come the time when they do have the budget for new equipment they may remember the support (or lack of it) and go elsewhere. I had a case with a "Thermo" instrument (non nuclear), made before the original manufacturer was bought out, last year. Thermo were happy to quote for a service call but inquiries indicated that they actually knew nothing abut this particular model and would not have been able to fix it. It looks identical to the current model (same model number) but the internals are completely different. They were happy to suggest we bought a new controller even though they did not have any firmware for it! An inadvertent command up its RS232 port had upset its firmware. Fortunately a bit of detective work located some old utility's (non Windoze) for a different instrument that used the same controller. Some work with these sorted the problem. Some companies are trying to improve the situation. Agilent (formerly Hewlett Packard) are actively making manuals and documentation for older instruments available. This includes putting them on their own website and allowing other websites to freely distribute information on older units. Ludlum are a great company with well engineered products and good support. Let's hope they don't get bought up by Thermo or another big group. Robert. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Flood, John Sent: 06 March 2007 00:20 To: Sandy Perle; J. Marshall Reber; radsafelist Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era It is my understanding that much design and manufacturing is moving from Santa Fe to Ohio, while calibration and repair will go to South Carolina as stated earlier. Some of the instruments come from the German part of the Thermo empire, which has its own design & production, and that will continue. How many of the Santa Fe workforce will end up with a Thermo job elsewhere, and how many will be laid off I couldn't even guess. Bob Flood Nevada Test Site -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 1:09 PM To: 'J. Marshall Reber'; 'radsafelist' Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era Are you sure that these operations aren't being consolidated in their new manufacturing facility located in Oakbrook, OH? Thermo employees do monitor this list, so we might get some more details regarding this. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of J. Marshall Reber Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:40 AM To: radsafelist Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ -------------------------------------------------------- Genetix Limited - Queensway, New Milton, Hampshire, BH25 5NN Registered in England No. 2660050 www.genetix.com Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily Genetix Ltd (Genetix) or any company associated with it. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify Genetix by telephone on +44 (0)1425 624600. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. This mail and any attachments have been scanned for viruses prior to leaving Genetix network. Genetix will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages as a result of any virus being passed on, or arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party. -------------------------------------------------------- From Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk Tue Mar 6 05:27:24 2007 From: Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk (Dawson, Fred Mr) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 11:27:24 -0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] HPA PRESS RELEASE Polonium-210 as a Poison Message-ID: >From the HPA:- For your information the following Press Release will be published on our website this morning. Press Office (Centre for Radiation, Chemical and Environmental Hazards) Health Protection Agency Chilton Didcot Oxfordshire OX11 0RQ Telephone: (01235) 822744/5 Fax: (01235) 822746 Email: chilton.pressoffice at hpa.org.uk Website: http://www.hpa.org.uk PRESS RELEASE Polonium-210 as a Poison The Health Protection Agency's radiation protection experts together with colleagues from research laboratories in the USA have published a paper in the Journal of Radiological Protection1 on how polonium-210 acts as a poison in the body. Although the unfortunate death of Mr Litvinenko in London last year stimulated this work, the paper does not examine the particular circumstances of his death. Instead the authors review published scientific evidence accumulated over decades about the biological behaviour of polonium-210 and its deleterious effects at high doses, and they estimate how much would have to be consumed to give a lethal dose. The authors conclude that polonium-210 ingestion of 1-3 GBq or more is likely to lead to death within a few weeks, assuming 10% absorption to blood (0.1 - 0.3 GBq). On reaching the bloodstream, it would be rapidly deposited in major organs and tissues including the liver, kidneys and bone marrow. The intense alpha radiation within these tissues would result in massive destruction of living cells, leading to a rapid decline in health. Anyone receiving such doses would show symptoms of acute radiation sickness syndrome, and death would eventually result from multiple organ failure. Remedial medical treatment strategies are unlikely to be successful once significant amounts of polonium-210 have entered the blood stream and deposited in tissues, within a few hours of ingestion. This conclusion arises primarily from an expert assessment of available experimental data, supported by human data on the biological behaviour of polonium-210 and on effects of external radiation. There is only limited information on effects of polonium-210 in humans; the data from the Litvinenko case are not currently available because they are part of a criminal investigation. Dr Roger Cox, Director of the Agency's Centre for Radiation, Chemical and Environmental Hazards said, "The tragic death of Mr Litvinenko in London brought the attention of the world to polonium-210. Although it is widespread in the environment in minute quantities and is familiar to most radiation scientists, the use of polonium-210 as a poison is unprecedented in our experience. This paper is an expert review of the available scientific data on polonium-210 and estimates what is a lethal quantity". Press enquiries: telephone (01235) 822744, (01235) 822745 or (01235) 822737 Reference 1 J Harrison, R Leggett, D Lloyd, A Phipps and B Scott (2007). Polonium-210 as a Poison. J. Radiol. Prot. 27 pp 17-40. Abstract available on line at http://www.iop..org/EJ/abstract/0952-4746/27/1/001 Notes for Editors 1. The paper is accompanied by an editorial entitled, "The Polonium-210 Poisoning in London" by Dr John Stather, a Deputy Director of CRCE. This describes some of the public health and radiation protection measures that had to be instigated by the Health Protection Agency following the discovery that Mr Litvinenko's death was due to Po-210 poisoning http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0952-4746/27/1/E02. For more information on the measures taken see the updates on the HPA website at http://www.hpa.org.uk 2. The Journal of Radiological Protection is published by Institute of Physics Publishing (see http://www.iop.org/) and is the house journal of the UK's Society for Radiological Protection (see http://www.srp-uk.org/). The SRP was founded in 1963 and is the Scientific Society in the UK that covers the whole field of radiological protection. It has nearly 2000 national and international members, who are professionally concerned with safety aspects of the use of ionising and non-ionising radiation in education, central and local government, industry, medicine and research. 3. The Institute of Physics is a scientific membership organisation devoted to increasing the understanding and application of physics. It has an extensive worldwide membership (currently over 35,000) and is a leading communicator of physics with all audiences from specialists through government to the general public. Its publishing company, IOP Publishing, is a world leader in scientific publishing and the electronic dissemination of physics. Fred Dawson Fwp_dawsonathotmail.com From maurysis at peoplepc.com Tue Mar 6 06:16:38 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 06:16:38 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] DU Study; Serious Health Risks Not Found Message-ID: <45ED5BA6.1090602@peoplepc.com> Source: Sandia National Laboratories Date: July 24, 2005 More on: Weapons Technology , Nuclear Energy , Physics , Vehicles , Biometric , Nanotechnology Sandia Completes Depleted Uranium Study; Serious Health Risks Not Found Science Daily ? ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- Sandia National Laboratories has completed a two-year study of the potential health effects associated with accidental exposure to depleted uranium (DU) during the 1991 Gulf War. The study, "An Analysis of Uranium Dispersal and Health Effects Using a Gulf War Case Study," performed by Sandia scientist Al Marshall, employs analytical capabilities used by Sandia's National Security Studies Department and examines health risks associated with uranium handling. U.S. and British forces used DU in armor-piercing penetrator bullets to disable enemy tanks during the Gulf and Balkan wars. DU is a byproduct of the process used to enrich uranium for use in nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons. During the enrichment process, the fraction of one type of uranium (uranium-235) is increased relative to the fraction found in natural uranium. As a consequence, the uranium left over after the enrichment process (mostly uranium-238) is depleted in uranium-235 and is called depleted uranium. The high density, low cost, and other properties of DU make it an attractive choice as an anti-tank weapon. However, on impact, DU particulate is dispersed in the surrounding air both within and outside the targeted vehicle and suspended particulate may be inhaled or ingested. Concerns have been raised that exposure to uranium particulate could have serious health problems including leukemia, cancers, and neurocognitive effects, as well as birth defects in the progeny of exposed veterans and civilians. Marshall's study concluded that the reports of serious health risks from DU exposure are not supported by veteran medical statistics nor supported by his analysis. Only a few U.S. veterans in vehicles accidentally struck by DU munitions are predicted to have inhaled sufficient quantities of DU particulate to incur any significant health risk. For these individuals, DU-related risks include the possibility of temporary kidney damage and about a 1 percent chance of fatal cancer. Several earlier studies were carried out by the U.S. Department of Defense, by University Professors Fetter (University of Maryland) and von Hippel (Princeton), and by an Army sponsored team from Pacific Northwest National Laboratories and Los Alamos National Laboratory. The conclusions from the Sandia study are consistent with these earlier studies. The Sandia study, however, also includes an analysis of potential health effects of DU fragments embedded as shrapnel in the bodies of some U.S. veterans. The Sandia study also looked at civilian exposures in greater detail, examined the potential risk of DU-induced birth defects in the children of exposed individuals, and provided a more detailed analysis of the dispersion of DU following impact with a number of targeted vehicles. ### For a full copy of the report, download the following pdf file from http://www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-releases/2005/def-nonprolif-sec/snl-dusand.pdf : "An Analysis of Uranium Dispersal and Health Effects Using a Gulf War Case Study" Sandia is a multiprogram laboratory operated by Sandia Corporation, a Lockheed Martin company, for the U.S. Department of Energy's National Nuclear Security Administration. With main facilities in Albuquerque, N.M., and Livermore, Calif., Sandia has major R&D responsibilities in national security, energy and environmental technologies, and economic competitiveness. Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by Sandia National Laboratories. From sandyfl at cox.net Tue Mar 6 10:33:18 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 08:33:18 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Poll to decide nuclear Message-ID: Index: *Poll to decide nuclear *Translation error said to have led to hospital deaths *Toshiba in talks on power plant business in India *Rann wants state referendum on nuclear power *Duke Energy and Government - Agreement on Used Nuclear Fuel Storage Costs *Nuclear Council Presents Recommendations to DOE *Thorium Power Reaches Major Milestone in Testing of Its Proprietary Nuclear Fuel *Next Austrian-Czech border blockade over Temelin on March 14 *U.S. working to develop new nuke detectors *Gamma Ray Blast May Help Huntington's Disease Therapy ------------------------------------------ Poll to decide nuclear (Adelaide Now) Mar 7 - ANY plans to build a nuclear power plant in South Australia will automatically go to a state referendum under laws planned by the State Government. Premier Mike Rann told Parliament yesterday the referendum would be triggered automatically should any federal government try to override SA's ban on nuclear power plants. To save costs, the referendum would be held in conjunction with the state election which fell closest to any federal move. "I believe this is an issue of such significance and controversy that the people should be given a direct say in whether they want them built in SA," Mr Rann said. "At present, federal laws prevent nuclear power stations being built in Australia. We are currently looking at the feasibility of backing that up with SA legislation." Mr Rann said Prime Minister John Howard was becoming a champion of domestic nuclear power generation and his government was actively promoting the idea of overturning laws to allow their establishment in Australia. It was revealed late last month that a consortium headed by former Economic Development Board chairman Robert Champion de Crespigny, former Western Mining chief Hugh Morgan, and businessman Ron Walker was examining options for nuclear power generation in Australia. The move sparked an uproar in federal Parliament and outrage at a state level. ------------------------ Translation error said to have led to hospital deaths Nancy, France Mar 6 - An error in translating English instructions for the use of software probably led to the deaths by an overdose of X-ray radiation of four patients at a French hospital, the head of the Regional Agency for Hospitalization in the region of Lorraine said Tuesday. "The problem did not originate with the technicians or with the software, but with the interpretation and the transmission of the software," Antoine Perrin told journalists in the eastern French city of Nancy after a French government report severely criticized staff at the hospital at Epinal. On Tuesday, French Health Minister Xavier Bertrand said action would be taken against individuals as a result of the errors, which occurred between May 6, 2004, and August 1, 2005, in the treatment of 23 men suffering from prostate cancer. The deaths of three of the four patients who passed away were linked to the error, Bertrand said. According to the government report, the other 19 patients suffered complications of varying severity as a result of the overdose. ---------------- Toshiba in talks on power plant business in India TOKYO (AFP) - Japanese giant Toshiba Corp. said Tuesday it was in talks with India's Larsen and Toubro Ltd. to enter the coal-fired power plant business in the growing South Asian economy. The proposed venture would jointly produce and sell equipment for the plants. "We are in negotiations with L and T to form a joint venture to launch coal-fired power plant businesses in India," said Toshiba spokeswoman Hiroko Mochida. "If concluded, it will be our company's first step to begin such businesses in the country," Mochida said, adding that further details of the project are still under negotiations. The Nikkei business daily said Larsen and Toubro would likely take a majority stake in the joint venture, which will spend some 20 billion yen (173 million dollars) to build plants for steam turbines and power generators. The new venture aims at annual sales of 20 billion yen in five years, the newspaper said. Toshiba, best known internationally for its electronics, has been expanding its power business. Last year it acquired US nuclear power plant maker Westinghouse for 5.4 billion dollars in one of the biggest Japanese acquisitions overseas in years. ------------------ Rann wants state referendum on nuclear power The South Australian Premier, Mike Rann, wants a state referendum on nuclear power if the Federal Government moves to override state bans on nuclear power plants. He says the state needs legislation to trigger a referendum because the Federal Government is promoting the idea of allowing nuclear power plants to be built in Australia. Mr Rann says federal laws currently ban nuclear power plants being built in Australia, and he says state legislation is needed to reinforce the ban in South Australia. The Greens say they will introduce legislation in an effort to end any uncertainty over the possibility of a nuclear power plant being built in South Australia. Greens MLC Mark Parnell says the Mr Rann has done a backflip by announcing he wants a referendum on the issue. Last week Mr Rann ruled out a nuclear plant ever being built in South Australia under a Labor Government or while he was Premier. Mr Parnell says the Premier's choice for a referendum has raised doubt and uncertainty over his previous pledge. -------------- Duke Energy and Federal Government Reach Agreement on Used Nuclear Fuel Storage Costs CHARLOTTE, N.C., March 6 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Duke Energy (Nachrichten) Carolinas and the U.S. Department of Justice have reached a settlement resolving Duke Energy's used nuclear fuel litigation against the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE). The agreement provides for an initial payment to Duke Energy of approximately $56 million for certain storage costs incurred through July 31, 2005, with additional amounts reimbursed annually for future storage costs. In 1983, Duke Energy entered into a contract with the DOE which provided for the removal of used fuel from nuclear power reactor sites beginning in 1998. Because the federal government did not begin used fuel removal in 1998, Duke Energy has incurred higher used fuel storage costs at the Duke Energy- operated Oconee, McGuire and Catawba nuclear stations. Under this settlement, the government will reimburse Duke Energy for qualifying storage costs from the U.S. Treasury's Judgment Fund. "This agreement is an important positive step for our company and the federal government," said Brew Barron, Duke Energy chief nuclear officer. "It clarifies specific costs the DOE will pay associated with the delay in meeting its obligation for used fuel disposal. This ensures our ratepayers and shareholders do not bear the full financial burden of these delays." In the near-term, Duke Energy will continue the safe and secure storage of used fuel at these nuclear plant sites. As a longer-term solution, Duke Energy continues to support the government's efforts to fulfill its obligation to accept used nuclear fuel. Duke Energy Corp., one of the largest electric power companies in the United States, supplies and delivers energy to approximately 3.9 million U.S. customers. The company has nearly 37,000 megawatts of electric generating capacity in the Midwest and the Carolinas, and natural gas distribution services in Ohio and Kentucky. In addition, Duke Energy has more than 4,000 megawatts of electric generation in Latin America, and is a joint-venture partner in a U.S. real estate company. Duke Energy's Carolinas operations include nuclear, coal-fired, natural gas and hydroelectric generation. That diverse fuel mix provides nearly 21,000 megawatts of safe, reliable and competitively priced electricity to more than 2.2 million electric customers in a 22,000-square-mile service area of North Carolina and South Carolina. ----------------- Nuclear Council Presents Recommendations to DOE WASHINGTON, March 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Industry leaders representing the American Council on Global Nuclear Competitiveness met with U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) Secretary Samuel W. Bodman to discuss a series of recommendations that would restore America as a leader in nuclear energy design, manufacturing, service and supply. Companies represented at the meeting included ATK, ConverDyn, EnergySolutions, General Atomics, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, USEC Inc. and Westinghouse. Council representatives commended DOE and the administration for their ongoing commitment to nuclear energy and urged them to take steps to restore the competitive position of the U.S. nuclear design, manufacturing, service and supply industry. "As our need for energy will increase, so too does our need for nuclear power, and the Energy Department has a strong set of nuclear programs that we believe can create an environment for a nuclear renaissance," Secretary of Energy Bodman said. Among the recommendations presented, the Council asked that DOE seriously consider the health of U.S. industry when deciding how to allocate funding for nuclear energy programs, notably for the Global Nuclear Energy Partnership, Nuclear Power 2010 and the Next Generation Nuclear Plant. Westinghouse CEO Steve Tritch said, "Under the leadership of President Bush and Secretary Bodman, DOE has established a strong set of nuclear energy programs that will help ensure U.S. technological leadership and growing U.S. employment in this vital field. Today we presented recommendations to help build upon the strong foundation that has been built in recent years." Council representatives stressed that it is essential, for both national security and economic reasons that a reinvigorated U.S. industry is able to compete in the global market from the dominant, preferred-supplier position. "The commitment to nuclear energy by our nation's leaders highlights its economic and environmental importance to the U.S. This step in the right direction has set the stage for near-term plant construction," said General Atomics Vice Chairman Linden Blue. "In order to rebuild a vital, domestic nuclear industry, we encourage DOE to mirror the Department of Defense's example of stewardship by ensuring that government procurement decisions benefit American taxpayers and contribute to the growth of U.S. industry." The Council recommended that DOE expedite the completion of the loan guarantee rules for nuclear energy projects and ensure the rules cover projects beyond new reactors that will restore the domestic nuclear energy design, manufacturing, service and supply industry. "The loan guarantee provisions of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 have served as a catalyst for the construction of new nuclear power plants in the U.S.," said EnergySolutions CEO Steve Creamer. "By ensuring these provisions cover other aspects of our domestic nuclear-energy infrastructure, we can start building new U.S. facilities and creating new U.S. jobs." On the international front, the Council supported the administration's efforts to secure agreements for nuclear energy cooperation with countries such as Russia and India, but cautioned that these agreements must not inadvertently undermine the resurrection of the U.S. nuclear industry. "Cooperation with other nations is an essential part of our nuclear energy future," said USEC Inc. CEO John Welch. "However, in negotiating such agreements, we must remember that the presence of a vibrant U.S. nuclear energy manufacturing and supply infrastructure is essential if we are to successfully influence nuclear energy and nonproliferation policies in other countries." Formed in 2005, the American Council on Global Nuclear Competitiveness is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization that seeks the return of American nuclear leadership to the world through the emergence of an U.S.-led global nuclear enterprise. The Council educates key audiences on the policies and technologies of an American nuclear renaissance, and summons public and private sector leadership to organize and promote such a transformation. For more information, visit http://www.nuclearcompetitiveness.org --------------- Thorium Power Reaches Major Milestone in Testing of Its Proprietary Nuclear Fuel Company Announces Successful Test of Scaled Up Nuclear Fuel for Commercial Reactors McLEAN, Va., March 6 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Thorium Power Ltd. (OTC Bulletin Board: THPW - News), the leading developer of low waste, non- proliferative nuclear fuel technology for existing and future reactors, today announced the successful completion of thermal-hydraulic experiments, a key step in the validation process of its thorium-based nuclear fuel designs. The work was performed at the thermal-hydraulic facilities of OKBM, the leading nuclear design bureau in Russia. The recently completed testing consisted of two experiments simulating emergency pressure and temperature conditions inside the core of commercial reactors: The first included a one-meter long complete seed and blanket assembly compatible with the VVER-1000 reactor design. The second experiment simulated conditions in Western PWR reactor designs, and was performed on a one-meter long partial seed fuel assembly consisting of 25 rods. Thorium Power's CEO Seth Grae said: "This is a breakthrough result for Thorium Power. It confirms that our thorium-based fuel designs are scalable and can meet the pressure and temperature performance standards for commercial light water reactors. We are on track for the full scale validation of our fuel in a commercial reactor." Dr. Andrey Mushakov, Thorium Power's Executive Vice President- International Nuclear Operations, added: "Over the last three years we have successfully demonstrated the promise of our fuel designs on a small-scale basis by fabricating fuel samples for irradiation testing in the IR-8 research reactor. We have now successfully scaled up our designs - by more than a factor of three - to fuel rods of a full meter. The final step will be to increase the scale of the rods to the size used in commercial reactors - approximately three and a half meters. Further, while our initial thermal- hydraulic testing involved separate seed rods and blanket rods, the new tests combined the seed and blanket bundles in a single fuel assembly - the exact configuration we will use in full scale commercial VVER-1000 reactors. Thorium Power's Technical Advisory Board, comprised of nuclear industry experts with long track records of designing and selling new fuels and reactors worldwide, met from February 28th to March 2nd and reviewed these results in the course of developing plans to accelerate the technology demonstration and commercialization schedule." Mr. Grae continued: "Going forward, the company will execute fuel product validation steps leading to demonstration of our fuel (so-called lead test assemblies, LTAs) in a VVER-1000 nuclear power plant powering over one million households. These validation steps include: -- Scaling up the fuel fabrication process to full length (10 feet) rods used in commercial VVER-1000 reactors -- Validating thermal hydraulic performance of full size (10 feet) seed and blanket fuel assembly -- Completing ampoule irradiation testing and perform post-irradiation examination to confirm fuel performance -- Obtaining final regulatory approvals for insertion of fuel in VVER-1000 commercial reactors." ------------- Next Austrian-Czech border blockade over Temelin on March 14 Linz- Austrian opponents of South Bohemian nuclear power plant Temelin will organise the next blockade of Austrian-Czech border crossings on March 14, Manfred Doppler, spokesman for the Upper Austrian group Atomstopp, told CTK today. The activists will block four crossings - Wullowitz/Dolni Dvoriste, Weigetschlag/Studanky, Guglwald/Predni Vyton and Gmund/Ceske Velenice - from 10:00 to 12:00 next Wednesday. Originally, the blockade was held every Wednesday. Doppler said that the Austrian government is discussing possible steps to be taken against Temelin. Doppler said that the blockade would take place even if Austria lodged an international complaint against the Czech Republic over Temelin. "It is the most important for us that the Czechs implement in the plant the safety measures we require," he pointed out. He repeatedly said that according to Atomstopp, the Czech Republic violated the bilateral Austrian-Czech agreement from Melk by allowing the full operation of the plant in 2003. "Border blockades will continue and Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer can blame only himself for it," Doppler said. The anti-nuclear activists criticise the Austrian government for its allegedly passive stance on Temelin. Atomstopp and the Lower Austrian platform Stopp Temelin said earlier that possible international diplomatic problems caused by the blockade were Gusenbauer's fault. --------------- U.S. working to develop new nuke detectors WASHINGTON Mar 6 - At a busy border crossing, a truck passing through a radiation scanner sets off an alarm. It could be a nuclear device, but it's far more likely to be kitty litter, ceramic tile or a load of bananas. The machines, first installed after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, measure gamma radiation, but cannot distinguish between low levels of gamma rays that occur naturally in innocent materials, and the makings for weapons that terrorists might use. So the inspectors must pull the truck or container aside for a second inspection with a hand-held scanner, which, at the nation's busiest ports or border crossings, can lead to backed-up lines that anger drivers and slow commerce. That's the dilemma of protecting the United States from nuclear terrorism ? a trade-off among accuracy, inconvenience and the expense to taxpayers. About 600 scanners have been installed at ports and border crossings around the U.S. Government officials are working with several companies to develop new nuclear detectors that won't waste time and that can actually differentiate the potassium in a banana from that in highly enriched uranium. Tests being conducted in Nevada this month pit new detectors against the older ones, to determine whether the higher accuracy claimed by the makers of the new machines is enough to justify their higher cost ? around $377,000 each, more than six times the cost of the older models. Later this spring, the new machines will undergo a real-world test on the New York waterfront so Customs officers can judge for themselves if they're an improvement. They're also to be used in similar tests along roads leading to the city as part of an effort to set up a protective perimeter starting in 2008. Some investigators question whether cutting the time wasted by false alarms might actually increase the deadly possibility of nuclear material slipping by an inspector. Last October, the congressional Government Accountability Office reported that the new machines, touted as having fewer false alarms, showed a frightening incidence of "false negatives" ? meaning the scanner either misidentified the material as nonthreatening, or failed to detect it at all. That danger is particularly high if the nuclear material is placed beside a nonthreatening substance such as kitty litter, the report said. It's no idle worry. Al-Qaida and like-minded terrorists have shown a desire both to obtain nuclear materials and to produce mass casualties. "Criminals and terrorists can obtain a key component for producing nuclear weapons and smuggle it undetected through the airports of countries on high alert against terrorist threats," concluded a report published in February by the EastWest Institute, a think tank that studies global security issues. In a 2006 report, the U.N. International Atomic Energy Agency listed 16 confirmed incidents of trafficking in highly enriched uranium or plutonium globally from 1993 to 2005. Concerns about terrorists obtaining nuclear material increased dramatically after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, but the Bush administration's efforts to deal with the issue were scattered across different agencies. As early as 2002, the GAO lamented the lack of any government-wide plan to guide U.S. efforts to combat nuclear smuggling. It said "some programs were duplicative, and coordination among U.S. agencies was not effective." It was not until April 2005 that the Domestic Nuclear Detection Office was created in the Homeland Security Department to coordinate the government's development of technology to detect nuclear materials. Later that year, at the Nevada test site just north of Las Vegas where the military once tested atomic weapons, the nuclear office began testing new machines, using sophisticated technology that can distinguish among different types of radioactive material. The older machines currently in use at ports and border crossings measure whether there is an elevated amount of radiation, but cannot identify its source. To test the new machines, the nuclear office sent trucks carrying radiological materials on 7,000 runs down a row of scanners developed by 10 companies. They chose three finalists whose models are still under evaluation. The newer models use crystals that absorb radioactive wavelengths to suggest what the material is. The operator analyzes the emissions using the machine's sophisticated software. "We don't expect this to be 100 percent perfect immediately, but we will continue to refine it," said Vayl Oxford, head of the nuclear office. Oxford will recommend to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff following this month's tests whether the machines should be certified for use. The agency plans to spend $80 million this year to buy 104 of the advanced models, and ultimately wants to put them at 380 border sites. Congress has said that can't happen until the machines are proven effective. Some critics have raised concerns about both performance and cost of the new technology. They worry that the crystals are too delicate for the new devices to be deployed in the real world, where sand or salt water can interfere with their performance. In a 2005 report, the GAO said, "Environmental conditions at many ports, such as the existence of high winds and sea spray, can affect radiation detection equipment's performance and sustainability." Oxford has acknowledged that the crystals used by the newer models are delicate and require more maintenance than the older ones. Also, the advanced model made by one company requires cool temperatures to operate effectively. In its October report, the GAO questioned the nuclear office's decisions about moving forward with the new models and concluded the agency did not justify its initial $1.2 billion contract with the three companies for their prototypes. And to judge the costs and benefits of the newer models, the agency relied on assumptions about the new machines' anticipated performance rather than considering actual test results, the GAO said. The report said the new scanners could not meet the nuclear office's standard of correctly identifying highly enriched uranium 95 percent of the time. Rather, the three finalists could recognize the uranium only 70 percent to 88 percent of the time, and could identify uranium masked by another substance such as kitty litter just 17 percent to 53 percent of the time. Oxford acknowledged that "some misunderstandings and/or disagreements remain" between his office and GAO, but promised that the testing this month in Nevada and later in New York would support the validity of his assumptions. He said he stood behind the basic conclusion that the new program is a "sound investment" for the government. --------------- Gamma Ray Blast May Help Huntington's Disease Therapy A powerful gamma ray source built to help the U.S. Army calibrate radiation safety equipment might also help scientists decipher a debilitating disease. UAH researchers are searching for clues that might lead to new therapies for Huntington's disease. Newswise ? A powerful gamma ray source built to help the U.S. Army calibrate radiation safety equipment might also help scientists decipher a debilitating disease. UAH students and faculty are working with the Army's Primary Standards Laboratory at Redstone Arsenal and several tiny worms (who didn't always glow in the dark) to search for clues that might lead to new therapies for Huntington's disease. "This line of research is definitely worth pursuing," said Dr. Lynn Boyd, an associate professor of biology at UAH. "It's still too early to say whether anything therapeutic might come from this, but it is ? promising." Using generations of tiny C. elegans nematode worms descended from ancestors who were genetically tagged in the Army's gamma ray chamber, Boyd and her student assistants are trying to learn what effects different enzymes have on clumps of amino acids associated with Huntington's disease. It isn't known whether these aggregates of polyglutamine are good or bad. Although the clumps are large compared to the cells ? proportionally, they can take up as much space in a cell as a seven-inch tumor in an average man ? some scientists believe they might be a cell's way of taking bad amino acids out of circulation by collecting them in one place. Good or bad, the UAH team has found some enzymes that make the clumps bigger and some that make them smaller. They study the enzymes, which are found naturally in the clumps, by tagging the worm's chromosomes with proteins or enzymes attached to glowing proteins (which are harvested from jellyfish and other fluorescent beasties). They inject the dye-tagged genetic material into the worms before they are zapped by powerful radiation. At just the right level of radiation, the DNA strands in the worms' unfertilized eggs snap and the dye-tagged material slips into the chromosomes while the worm isn't looking. The glowing protein is then reproduced in the worm's offspring. If the target material concentrates in clumps it creates glowing spots, giving the UAH researchers a tool for tracking what happens when specific enzymes are suppressed. In a recent trip to the Army's radiation lab, the UAH team hoped to tag individual strains of worms for seven specific enzymes. "One of the best things about the Army lab is that they are so meticulous," said Boyd. "We always get exactly the right dose of radiation, which might be why we've had a one hundred percent success rate so far." Boyd and her team think they might have had another successful zapping in February, although they can't be sure until they see the great-grand eggs of the worms that were irradiated. That should happen any time now, since C. elegans goes from hatching to parenthood in about three days. "It's always interesting when Lynn brings her worms out," said Steve Rogers, a senior physicist in the Wynn center's nucleonics lab. "We appreciate the opportunity to contribute to a research project like this one." Using human cells grown in a culture, Boyd found that suppressing the human enzymes that corresponded to the worm enzymes had the same effects on polyglutamine aggregates. Now she is talking to colleagues at The University of Alabama at Birmingham about taking this research to the next level. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From sandyfl at cox.net Tue Mar 6 10:42:12 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 08:42:12 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Laszlo Toro - Your current E-Mail address? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB601@gdses.corp.gds.com> Hello Laszlo, It appears that your E-Mail address is no longer working. If you read this, please send me your current E-Mail address or let me know that this is simply a server issue. Thanks! Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From sandyfl at cox.net Tue Mar 6 11:23:50 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 09:23:50 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] I have Laszlo Toro's E-Mail In-Reply-To: <2250270315753C4E95BD2184F631B04C808AF2@gamma.mgpi.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB606@gdses.corp.gds.com> No need to respond. Thanks you. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From don.mercado at lmco.com Tue Mar 6 11:53:25 2007 From: don.mercado at lmco.com (Mercado, Don) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:53:25 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] AW: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak In-Reply-To: <000001c75d2a$0c1c9d80$49197254@pc1> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB5A1@gdses.corp.gds.com> <000001c75d2a$0c1c9d80$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <3D92CA467E530B4E8295214868F840FE4643E2@emss01m12.us.lmco.com> Would you two ass hats quit. PLEASE! -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Franz Sch?nhofer Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 4:22 PM To: sandyfl at cox.net; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Subject: [ RadSafe ] AW: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Shut up! Or do you more and more want to show your ignorance? I am not responsible for Mr. Hitler having been born in Braunau. My family has been in big troubles during the second world war. I have not equated you to a Nazi, but I categorized your words as Nazi-speak and so it is. Two other US citizen have already critizised your wording of "sub-humans" - flame them if you want to get rid of your aggressions. You know more than well, that I am from Austria - or did you forget our appointment in Vienna? This has nothing to do with any US-aversion - this is directed to just a single persons conduct. Refrain from sending any more intended insults to me, even more to send them to RADSAFE, because I will from now on not answer any single one. Did you understand, Mr. Perle? And don't call me "Franz" anymore, in our European culture first names are a privilege - sometime it seems that this is the case in certain parts of the USA as well. With all disrespect Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Sandy Perle [mailto:sandyfl at cox.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 03. M?rz 2007 01:05 An: 'Franz Sch?nhofer'; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Betreff: RE: X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak Franz, For someone who has absolutely nothing to say, you say it so often. And you equate me to a Nazi. If I recall, Hitler was from Austria. Where are you from, Franz!!!! _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From hflong at pacbell.net Tue Mar 6 13:20:31 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 11:20:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <20070305021431.57129.qmail@web32510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070306192031.4561.qmail@web83505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> "Georges, do you really support what the American and coalition forces did when they came to Iraq and turned your world upside down?" "Yes, of course I do. - God only knows what evil Saddam would eventually have done." " - al-Assad, please turn over these weapons. - Let the United Nations take them away." Saddam had used his scientists' capacity to memorize detail of A bomb plans, preparing for its rapid development while UN continued "inspections". By General Georges Sada, Saddam's Vice Air Marshall, Assyrian Christian, currently President of Iraqi Council of Churches. In Saddam's Secrets, Integrity Publishers 2006. He asked to lead the 40,000 Iraq Air Force in restoring order, but fear of Baathist methods kept Bremmer from accepting. "Hell Is Over- voices of the Kurds after Saddam" by Mike Tucker, 2004, Lyons Press reports, " I have listened to survivors of massacres during Saddam's murderous campaign--. Their joy is palpable and contagious --even in these uncertain times of increased terrorism and insurgent attacks." TV reports selectively bad news. Statistical weighing of benefit, as with radiation, is needed for accurate risk analysis. We must stop the Caliphate where it is sponsored, since it has declared it will eliminate infidels, America especially, and has on 9/11 shown that its threats are not empty. USSR leaders did not risk atomic retaliation. Would these death-wishers? Howard Long Ruth Sponsler wrote: What if, by some crazy fluke, the French nationalist Jean-Marie LePen were elected on April 22nd and he decided to stick his nose into *our* business? What if France finally got tired of being labeled as "ungrateful" and started standing up very strongly for itself - - and the target was the U.S.? Just a hypothesis that is hardly based on reality... If the U.S. wants to stick its nose into others' business too often, others will want to peek into our tent too. Sometimes, as in WWII, foreign intervention on the part of our country is necessary, but I think it's gone too far lately. I'd like to see our country reach out to at least the conservative parties in Europe like the CDU/CSU in Germany and the UMP in France. For the last few years, U.S. politicians have been bashing 'em all as "ungrateful" or as "socialists" -- with no recognition of the political spectrum that exists in Europe. Granted, the Socialist parties in Europe are pretty leftist, anti-business, and anti-nuclear. These guys do not represent the entirety of European public opinion. There are plenty of business-friendly politicians in Europe who would happily work with the U.S. if we stopped the Europe-bashing. However, the United States must acknowledge that hardly *any* Europeans, even on the Right, supported the Iraq war. ======== Context: I support French conservative Nicolas Sarkozy because he is a potential friend to Europe as well as the U.S., he supports of the French nuclear energy program, and because he's "tough on crime." The other French candidates including Socialist Segolene Royal and Rightist J.M. LePen are basically a joke because they're too extreme on the Left (Segolene Royal) or on the Right (J.M. LePen). ~Ruth http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/ --- "Syd H. Levine" wrote: > Somebody needs to stick their nose into a few folks' > business. Are we proud > we exercised restraint and allowed millions to be > murdered by the Nazis > before we decided to mind their business? What > about Pol Pot; we sat idly > by while millions were murdered because after > Vietnam, it certainly was not > politically expedient to get involved in that part > of the world. Pol Pot > appears to be second only to Hitler in the > extermination of innocents. I > suspect that someday, our involvement in the middle > east right now may be > viewed in a different light, whatever our ungrateful > European friends may > presently think. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandy Perle" > To: "'Steven Dapra'" ; > > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 4:01 PM > Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at > large > > > Steven, > > Thank you for your references. > > I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that we > need to "quit sticking our > national nose into everyone else's business." Our > government has done that > way too often, attempting to instill our way of life > on others, who will > never do so. ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jsalsman at gmail.com Tue Mar 6 13:35:15 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 11:35:15 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] DU Study; Serious Health Risks Not Found Message-ID: Maury, Marshall's Lockheed-managed Sandia study is two years old, and Marshall himself admitted that he never considered immunological or reproductive toxicity: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_mediation/Depleted_uranium_and_related_articles&diff=prev&oldid=65849277 He didn't really answer many of my questions that I posted here on RADSAFE when his study first came out, either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Physbang Sincerely, James Salsman From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Tue Mar 6 15:42:40 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 13:42:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070305194222.009faca0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <635382.34640.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Was the plane a DC-3 or the military equivalent, the C-47. >From "Lend-lease: Aircraft Deliveries to the Soviet Union" at http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/geust/aircraft_deliveries.htm "Some American aircraft types were simply irreplaceable and very highly appreciated on all levels during the war, e.g. P-39 Airacobra fighters, A-20 Boston and B-25 Mitchell bombers and C-47 transport aircraft." As noted at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-3 "During World War II, many civilian DC-3s were drafted for the war effort and nearly 10,000 military versions of the DC-3 were built, under the designations C-47, C-53, R4D and Dakota." --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 5 > > Who was the Soviet agent at Malta -- oops > -- did you mean > Yalta? I knew about the National Socialist acronym. > > That "Soviet" DC-3 may have been one that > was reverse engineered > from some US planes that were forced to land in > Siberia. (Forced by bad > weather and lack of fuel for the return trip to a > US-controlled > base.) Stalin refused to return the planes -- in > effect he stole them. I > don't know what happened to the crews. I also > cannot remember where I read > about this. > > Steven Dapra > > > At 04:20 PM 3/5/07 -0800, Raymond A Hoover wrote: > >Actually, Roosevelt had a number of Soviet agents > on his staff (the U.S. > >didn't know it at the time of course). In point of > fact Rossevelt's chief > >adviser at the Malta conference was a Soviet agent. > Stalin knew more > >about the Manhatten Project than Truman did when he > took over from Roosevelt. > > > >Let me also point out that the Soviets and the > Nazis (bet you didn't know > >that Nazi is an acronym for National Socialst, i.e. > the Nazis were > >socialists) had more than one agreement during the > inter war period. The > >Soviets provided training areas for the German army > in exchange for > >advanced training, the Ribbentrop-Molotov agreement > that partitioned > >Poland are two examples). > > > >While it is true that Stalin was constantly asking > for a second front, the > >West hadn't abandoned him. The U.S. provided a > great deal of assistance > >the Soviets that allowed them to continue fighting. > As one example when I > >was in Kiev I toured a War Museum. In one corner > of the museum there sat > >a DC-3. The sign on the walkway said it was a > Soviet plane. It was > >either a copy of some of the U.S. support. The > U.S. gave the Soviets lots > >of infrastructure support (vehicles, food, > medicine, etc). most of which > >was never aknowledged by the Soviets. > > > >None of this is related to adiation stuff of > course. > > > >John Jacobus wrote: > >Steve, > >I don't think there was any "love affair" between > FDR > >and Stalin. After WWI there was a powerful > >isolationist movement in this country. Our entry > into > >WWII was delayed by the "America First" movement, a > >member of which was the American hero Charles > >Lindbergh. > >http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/americafirst.html > >Also, there was fear of the rise Communism. And who > >better to fight the Communist that the Facists? > >Even before the US entered the European front, we > had > >arrangements with Britain, e.g., Lend-Lease policy. > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease > >At the outset of our involvement, Stalin pushed for > a > >second front. Instead the US and Britain push > through > >North Africa, into the Mediterranian. Basically, > the > >Soviet Union breed the Nazis with their own > soldiers > >and citizens until we finally invaded Normandy. > >--- Steven Dapra wrote: > >Rest deleted. > > > > > >Want to start your own business? Learn how on > >Yahoo! > > >Small Business. > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 From sandyfl at cox.net Tue Mar 6 16:22:34 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:22:34 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] GREEN LIGHT FOR FRENCH NUCLEAR REACTOR IN NORMANDY Message-ID: <45ED792A.25041.19813E5@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: *GREEN LIGHT FOR FRENCH NUCLEAR REACTOR IN NORMANDY *Officials push for Yucca nuclear dump *Romania to increase use of nuclear power *Bodman: Nuclear Power To Be Key Topic In India *Dominion could pursue nuclear plant *Pilgrim operator asked about 4 matters related to safety *Border Radiation Detection Devices Not Practical ------------------------------------------------ GREEN LIGHT FOR FRENCH NUCLEAR REACTOR IN NORMANDY PARIS, March 6, 2007 (AFP) - France's nuclear safety commission gave a green light Tuesday for the construction of a 3.3-billion euro (4.3- billion dollar) nuclear reactor in Normandy near the English Channel. Commission president Andre-Claude Lacoste told journalists he had forwarded "a favourable recommendation" on the 1600-megawatt reactor to relevant ministers. Construction of the so-called "third-generation" European Pressurized Water Reactor (EPR), located near the town of Flamanville, is slated to begin by the end of the year. France derives around three-quarters of its electricity from nuclear power, the highest ratio of any country in the world, and many of its reactors are approaching obsolescence. Opponents of nuclear energy, including several minor presidential candidates, have called for protest rallies to be held in five French cities on March 17. Lacoste said that the Flamanville reactor has "been the object of a much broader and deeper evaluation that other French electricity- generation nuclear plants at the safety report stage." The EPR design was developed in the 1990s by Germany's Siemens and France's Framatome-ANP, which is part of the state-owned nuclear energy group Areva. It reportedly uses 17 percent less fuel than the types of reactor currently operating in France, and is designed to generate power for 60 years. The 58 reactors currently in service -- built under a vast programme launched 30 years ago during the first oil crisis -- will begin to age out of operation beginning in 2015. -------------- Officials push for Yucca nuclear dump WASHINGTON - The Energy Department unveiled legislation Tuesday to spur construction of a national nuclear waste dump in Nevada and increase its capacity. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (news, bio, voting record), D-Nev., immediately vowed to block the bill. That could spell more problems for the troubled Yucca Mountain nuclear waste dump, already years behind schedule. The Energy Department official who heads the project warned that without new funding that's part of the bill, a 2017 goal for opening the dump 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas could not be met. "If we don't have that we are certainly not going to be able to maintain the 2017 date," said Edward F. "Ward" Sproat, director of the Energy Department's Office of Civilian Radioactive Waste Management. Sproat also said that if the Yucca Mountain's capacity isn't increased from the current limit of 77,000 tons, as the bill proposes, he would have to recommend to Congress next year that a second nuclear waste dump be built. That would be a hard sell, as few states would want to host a nuclear waste dump. Sproat indicated that the prospect of a second nuclear waste dump could help convince Congress of the need to move forward with Yucca Mountain and approve the department's legislation. "It's part of what I would call the congressional education process," Sproat told reporters at a briefing organized by The Energy Daily. The new bill is similar to legislation the Energy Department offered last year that didn't advance. The political environment is even tougher for the measure this year now that Reid, an ardent Yucca Mountain opponent, is in charge of the Senate. "This is just the department's latest attempt to breathe life into this dying beast and it will fail," Reid said. "I will continue to leverage my leadership position to prevent the dump from ever being built." The bill doesn't specify how much more than 77,000 tons of nuclear waste should be allowed in Yucca Mountain, though federal environmental impact studies have estimated the dump could safely hold at least 132,000 tons. There's already more than 50,000 tons of nuclear waste piling up at nuclear power plants in 31 states with nowhere to go, something that's threatening taxpayers with mounting liability costs since the federal government was contractually obligated to begin storing nuclear utilities' waste starting in 1998. Reid's solution is to leave the nuclear waste at the sites where it already is, put it in dry cask storage units and allow the Energy Department to take ownership of it onsite to eliminate the problem of liability to utilities. He and Sen. John Ensign (news, bio, voting record), R-Nev., introduced their own legislation Tuesday to make those changes. In recent years Reid has also succeeded in cutting President Bush's budget request for Yucca. The project's 2007 budget, at $405 million, is nearly $150 million less than the administration wanted, which Sproat said is forcing project managers to put various initiatives on hold, including work on a rail line to transport the waste. The Energy Department's bill would ensure that annual revenues in a special nuclear waste fund paid for by utilities would be dedicated to Yucca Mountain outside the overall federal budgeting process, so that Yucca wouldn't have to compete with other programs for funding. This would guarantee Yucca Mountain dedicated funding of at least $750 million per year. ---------------- Romania to increase use of nuclear power BUCHAREST, Romania (AP) - Romanian Prime Minister Calin Popescu Tariceanu called Tuesday for the building of two more nuclear reactors to be speeded up. "Due to the world energy crisis and rising prices, nuclear energy is being reconsidered," said Tariceanu, adding that Romania's economy was growing rapidly and needed to diversify its energy resources. Romania has a functioning Canadian-design nuclear reactor in Cernavoda and a second one is scheduled to become operational later this year. The working plant provides about 10% of Romania's energy needs. The two new reactors in Cernavoda, about 90 miles east of Bucharest, are expected to be operational in 2012 or 2013, with construction estimated to cost $2.6 billion. -------------- Bodman: Nuclear Power To Be Key Topic In India WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- Nuclear power will be a primary topic of discussion while U.S. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman is visiting with energy officials in India later this month, the secretary told reporters Tuesday. A central issue will be "cooperation on civil nuclear energy," Bodman said. In addition, Bodman said he plans to discuss any plans India might have to create a strategic oil reserve. "If they are moving along, we'll talk about how you use it, what it's for," Bodman said. DOE officials have said India, China and other countries that are building up new strategic petroleum reserves should use those stockpiles only in the event of supply disruptions and not to manipulate global oil prices. Bodman said he planned to be in India three or four days. Under the pact, the U.S. has agreed to help India advance nuclear technology as long as the fast-growing developing country commits to certain nonproliferation principles that limit the spread of dangerous nuclear materials. U.S. officials say the agreement will help energy-hungry India - the fifth- largest oil consuming nation in the world in 2006 - diversify its energy sector away from a reliance on fossil fuels to emission- free nuclear power for electricity generation. Over the objections of some critics on Capitol Hill, the U.S. Congress approved the civilian nuclear deal for India late last year. The action made way for U.S. companies like General Electric Co. (GE) and Westinghouse Electric Co. to sell nuclear technology to India for the first time. India's sole nuclear generator is state-run Nuclear Power Corp. of India Ltd, and the country currently doesn't allow private investment in nuclear power generation. But with the civilian nuclear energy deal in play, India is looking to open up the sector. While in New Delhi, the secretary is scheduled to speak at a March 20- 21 conference sponsored by the U.S. Energy Association about investment opportunities in the South Asian power markets. Representatives from India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Singapore and other countries are slated to speak as well. Additionally, Bodman said he might discuss with Indian officials any plans the country might have to create a strategic oil reserve. "If they are moving along, we'll talk about how you use it, what it's for," he said. DOE officials have said India, China and other countries that are building new strategic petroleum reserves should use those stockpiles only in the event of supply disruptions and not to manipulate global oil prices. Bodman said he planned to be in India three or four days. -------------- Dominion could pursue nuclear plant The massive re-write of Virginia's utility laws that is awaiting Gov. Timothy Kaine's signature would help push Dominion Virginia Power closer to being the first company to order a new nuclear power plant since the 1970s. Dominion has repeatedly said that the legislation must be passed this year to get a new nuclear plant built. The Richmond-based utility was already in the front of the pack of companies moving through the long government approval process to get a plant approved. Besides meeting various federal standards, any utility that wants to build a plant must raise billions of dollars. That's where the Virginia bill helps. It guarantees higher profits for a nuclear plant, and allows Dominion to start passing the cost to its customers during construction. Where and when does Dominion want to build a nuclear plant? Who else is as far along as Dominion so far? What's next after a site is approved? Why has Dominion said the Virginia bill must pass this year to get a plant built? ------------------ NRC wants more info from nuclear plant: Pilgrim operator asked about 4 matters related to safety PLYMOUTH (The Patriot Ledger) Mar 6 - As they review the Pilgrim nuclear power plant?s bid to operate for 20 additional years, nuclear regulators are asking the plant operator to look more closely at four safety items. Those items must be addressed if the plant is to receive a license to operate through 2032 - two decades past the original license expiration date. Pilgrim officials said they expect to be able to satisfy regulators. ``We will work on developing responses,?? plant spokesman David Tarantino said. ``(Regulators) need some further clarification and information, and we will provide that information.?? Some of the issues were discussed in January during a public meeting in Plymouth. At that meeting, regulators unveiled findings of a major inspection related to the relicensing effort. One such concern was water found on the floor of chambers surrounding the bottom of the plant?s dry well. The dry well is a containment vessel that surrounds the plant?s reactor core and is the first line of defense in an accident. Officials from the federal Nuclear Regulatory Commission want Entergy Corp., Pilgrim?s owner, to show that the water did not come from the reactor and that it has not harmed bolts that hold down steel plates used on stabilizers for the reactor. Tarantino said plant officials are still analyzing the water to make sure that it is not radioactive. Plant personnel do not believe it could have come from the reactor; pH studies of the water indicate that it is groundwater, he said. ``The question really is: Has this water caused a corrosion of those bolts that would impair their ability to function,?? Tarantino said. NRC officials also want Entergy to: -Provide more information about how it plans to inspect seals in the plant?s fire prevention system. -Provide more information about a diesel generator in the plant?s security system. -Change the calculation the plant has used to determine the rate at which nuclear reaction in the reactor core is causing the metal to become more brittle. --------------- Border Radiation Detection Devices Not Practical, Homeland Security Official Says WASHINGTON - At a busy border crossing, a truck passing through a radiation scanner sets off an alarm. It could be a nuclear device, but it's far more likely to be kitty litter, ceramic tile or a load of bananas. "Nuclear materials such as uranium and plutonium are not the only materials that emit radiation," Vayl Oxford, who directs the Homeland Security Department's nuclear office, told a House Appropriations panel Tuesday. The machines, first installed after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, measure gamma radiation, but cannot distinguish between low levels of gamma rays that occur naturally in innocent materials, and the makings for weapons that terrorists might use. So the inspectors must pull the truck or container aside for a second inspection with a hand-held scanner, which, at the nation's busiest ports or border crossings, can lead to backed-up lines that anger drivers and slow commerce. "Naturally occurring radioactive materials ... place an enormous burden on our customs offices, who must respond to all radiation alarms, including those caused by innocent goods," Oxford told the Appropriations subcommittee for homeland security. He explained that distance, dense materials like steel and lead, and the speed at which trucks carrying cargo move - about 5 mph - all affect the scanners' effectiveness. That's the dilemma of protecting the United States from nuclear terrorism - a trade-off among accuracy, inconvenience and the expense to taxpayers. "The 11 million containers that transit the ports every year (are) an enormous moving haystack that could conceal a deadly needle," said Rep. Hal Rogers, R-Ky. Government agencies need "to find this proverbial needle in the haystack and prevent it from causing real harm in a way that does not bring the American economic engine to a grinding halt," Rogers said. About 600 scanners have been installed at ports and border crossings around the U.S. Government officials are working with several companies to develop new nuclear detectors that won't waste time and that can actually differentiate the potassium in a banana from that in highly enriched uranium. Tests being conducted in Nevada this month pit new detectors against the older ones, to determine whether the higher accuracy claimed by the makers of the new machines is enough to justify their higher cost - around $377,000 each, more than six times the cost of the older models. Later this spring, the new machines will undergo a real-world test on the New York waterfront so Customs officers can judge for themselves if they're an improvement. They're also to be used in similar tests along roads leading to the city as part of an effort to set up a protective perimeter starting in 2008. Some investigators question whether cutting the time wasted by false alarms might actually increase the deadly possibility of nuclear material slipping by an inspector. Last October, the congressional Government Accountability Office reported that the new machines, touted as having fewer false alarms, showed a frightening incidence of "false negatives" - meaning the scanner either misidentified the material as nonthreatening, or failed to detect it at all. That danger is particularly high if the nuclear material is placed beside a nonthreatening substance such as kitty litter, the report said. It's no idle worry. Al-Qaida and like-minded terrorists have shown a desire both to obtain nuclear materials and to produce mass casualties. "Criminals and terrorists can obtain a key component for producing nuclear weapons and smuggle it undetected through the airports of countries on high alert against terrorist threats," concluded a report published in February by the EastWest Institute, a think tank that studies global security issues. In a 2006 report, the U.N. International Atomic Energy Agency listed 16 confirmed incidents of trafficking in highly enriched uranium or plutonium globally from 1993 to 2005. Concerns about terrorists obtaining nuclear material increased dramatically after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, but the Bush administration's efforts to deal with the issue were scattered across different agencies. As early as 2002, the GAO lamented the lack of any government-wide plan to guide U.S. efforts to combat nuclear smuggling. It said "some programs were duplicative, and coordination among U.S. agencies was not effective." It was not until April 2005 that the Domestic Nuclear Detection Office, which Oxford heads, was created in the Homeland Security Department to coordinate the government's development of technology to detect nuclear materials. Later that year, at the Nevada test site just north of Las Vegas where the military once tested atomic weapons, the nuclear office began testing new machines, using sophisticated technology that can distinguish among different types of radioactive material. The older machines currently in use at ports and border crossings measure whether there is an elevated amount of radiation, but cannot identify its source. To test the new machines, the nuclear office sent trucks carrying radiological materials on 7,000 runs down a row of scanners developed by 10 companies. They chose three finalists whose models are still under evaluation. Oxford will recommend to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff following this month's tests whether the machines should be certified for use. The agency plans to spend $80 million this year to buy 104 of the advanced models, and ultimately wants to put them at 380 border sites. Congress has said that can't happen until the machines are proven effective. Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From zfrexon at yahoo.com Tue Mar 6 19:11:15 2007 From: zfrexon at yahoo.com (Zaid Farukhi) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 17:11:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era Message-ID: <81669.62572.qm@web56601.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hello, Rexon Components, Inc. repairs all vendors' detectors and instruments (Bicron, Thermo, Eberline, Fluke, Harshaw, Teledyne, Ludlum, etc.). Rexon Components, Inc. also manufactures new products on a private label basis. Rexon has been around for 24 years. The website does not contain all the products since we constantly are custom-designing many of our products. Rexon TLD Systems, Inc. has in addition to their own line of Rexon / Teledyne readers has serviced other vendors TLD readers (Harshaw) in the past. The site is www.rexon.com. Their email is sales at rexon.com. Thank You, Zaid Farukhi Rexon Components, Inc. 24500 Highpoint Road Beachwood, OH 44122 Off: 216-292-7373 24 hr/7 days: 440-585-7086 Fax: 216-292-7714 Site: www.rexon.com Email: sales at rexon.com, zfrexon at yahoo.com -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of J. Marshall Reber Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 9:40 AM To: radsafelist Subject: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, repair service will all be done in South Carolina. --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. From sjd at swcp.com Tue Mar 6 19:17:08 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 18:17:08 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <635382.34640.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070305194222.009faca0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070306181602.009f6ec0@mail.swcp.com> March 6 This was my mistake. I received a private e-mail advising me that the airplane was a B-29. My apologies for the error. Steven Dapra At 01:42 PM 3/6/07 -0800, John Jacobus wrote: >Was the plane a DC-3 or the military equivalent, the >C-47. From sjd at swcp.com Tue Mar 6 20:25:56 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 19:25:56 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] DU Study; Serious Health Risks Not Found In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070306192315.009f1240@mail.swcp.com> March 6 James -- why don't you answer *my* question about Han Kang's alleged 2.2 increased risk? Remember? The one he made in Gulf War Review. See my e-mail to RADSAFE of Feb. 28. Did his claim ever pass peer review, was it published, and if so, what is the citation? Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 11:35 AM 3/6/07 -0800, James Salsman wrote: >Maury, > >Marshall's Lockheed-managed Sandia study is two years old, and >Marshall himself admitted that he never considered immunological or >reproductive toxicity: > >http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_mediation/Depleted_uranium_and_related_articles&diff=prev&oldid=65849277 > >He didn't really answer many of my questions that I posted here on >RADSAFE when his study first came out, either: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Physbang > >Sincerely, >James Salsman From jsalsman at gmail.com Tue Mar 6 22:29:55 2007 From: jsalsman at gmail.com (James Salsman) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 20:29:55 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Han Kang's epidemiology Message-ID: Steven Dapra wrote: > James -- why don't you answer *my* question about Han Kang's > alleged 2.2 increased risk? Remember? The one he made in Gulf War > Review. See my e-mail to RADSAFE of Feb. 28. Did his claim ever > pass peer review, was it published, and if so, what is the citation? Think about it: Kang publishes a 1.8 risk ratio (2.8 for children of female 1991 combat-deployed troops) in Annals of Epidemiology in 2001, and critics say that the self-reported surveys must have been mistaken -- our fighting men and women, the critics say, must have been lying about their own kids health. Dr. Margaret Ryan, whose DoD Birth and Infant Health Registry at the Naval Health Research Center is charged with publication of the reproductive health records which Kang and Araneta had been summarizing independently of each other, abruptly stops publishing tabulated statistics in 2001, writes a letter in response to Araneta's article (which echoed Kang's claims), saying that Araneta's methodology was flawed without saying why, and then co-authors a whitewash with Pat Doyle -- who detected the same increase, by the way, but discounted it as "reporting error" in her own paper -- calling the 80% increase in birth defects "modest." So Dr. Kang goes back and reviews 700+ medical records, and finds that the number of birth defects has increased 20%. He publishes that in his agency newsletter. Then Eric Daxon lies that Kang actually found a decrease after medical records review, not an increase. I spoke to Dr. Kang not too long ago, and yes, he is seeking publication of his most recent findings in the peer reviewed medical literature. Please phone him yourself and ask about it if you are curious. His telephone number is 202-745-8249. Sincerely, James Salsman From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Mon Mar 5 16:17:26 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 23:17:26 +0100 Subject: AW: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] NewAirport X-Ray... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c75f74$15115150$49197254@pc1> Louis, You might remember that especially in the 80's and early 90's hijacking was a kind of everyday event. This did not only include Muslims, but to a much higher extent all from Russians to escape to the West, Cubans forcing deviation to Cuba, members of the German RAF to liberate imprisoned members, etc. etc. This terror has declined to zero as far as I know. Other forms of terror have involved, but this seems to be a shortlived one - do not claim it to enhanced "security". My personal opinion then and also nowadays: If the mass media would not have covered these events and especially the politically motivated ones to such an event no terrorists would have any more used this potential blackmail. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von LNMolino at aol.com Gesendet: Montag, 05. M?rz 2007 20:12 An: crispy_bird at yahoo.com; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: Terror in the US & world at large (WAS: Re: [ RadSafe ] NewAirport X-Ray... In a message dated 3/5/2007 9:40:15 A.M. Central Standard Time, crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: Louis, You are correct. I should have said that "this new wave of terrorism will pass and be replace by another." At the beginning of the 20th century, Anarchism was the new terrorism. It will be replaced by a new one. One can even argue that the treat of nuclear warfare was a form of terrorism, which is why it was called MAD. http://www.state.de.us/cjc/terrorism/history.shtml I can fully agree with that statement above. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Mon Mar 5 16:35:36 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 23:35:36 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era In-Reply-To: <47122ED5-B5B6-4946-B76C-01E05428444D@iit.edu> Message-ID: <000701c75f76$9eb63770$49197254@pc1> Jeff, please forgive the "holes" in my memory: Didn't Eberline purchase a German company a few decades ago? People there were very unhappy about this. I have even bought a few instruments of both the original and the new company. Now it seems more profitable to have R&D being done in Germany. That's one of the typical results of globalisation. All around the world companies are suffering from that - why not an US company? - O.k. I am now according to some other RADSAFErs sending an anti-US comment. Let it be. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Jeff Terry Gesendet: Montag, 05. M?rz 2007 19:53 An: radsafelist Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] End of an Era Actually, this really is a shame. I hope that some of them make the move down to Ludlum. This has been in the works for some time now. If anyone needs backup manuals for older instruments, the time to ask is now. I hate Windows programs. I wish that scientific instrument manufacturers would provide linux software at a minimum. I guess that loss on knowledge is one of dangers of selling out to large multinational corporations. Jeff On Mar 5, 2007, at 11:39 AM, J. Marshall Reber wrote: > I've just heard that Thermo Electron (Eberline) is closing their > Santa Fe operations. All design, production, repair parts and > service personnel there are being let go, many experts with more > than 30 years of service will disappear. R&D will move to Germany, > repair service will all be done in South Carolina. > > Throw out your little screwdrivers - - - future instrument > adjustment and calibrations will all be done by Windows program > interaction. Digitize your thought processes or become out-of- > date! All analog circuitry will be done by digital emulation. > People replaced by robots - - - where will it end? Oh the > humanity, the humanity!!! > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// > radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other > settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Mon Mar 5 17:31:09 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 00:31:09 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304141339.009f2ae0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <000c01c75f7e$613dda30$49197254@pc1> Dear Steven, I did not expect that anybody on this list would be really interested in the situation of radiation protection and even less on our application of ALARA in Austria. Sorry for that misconception! Before I retired about three years ago I have been forced to spend about five years at the Department of Radiation Protection at the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry, Environmental Protection and Water Management. I was practically not allowed to do anything reasonable, but though I drafted a ? in my opinion reasonable ? proposal for an ordinance on naturally occurring radioactive material (NORM) it has more than seven years after not been implemented yet. Though my collegues from other European countries urged me to participate in the relevant European Union meetings I was never sent to any of them. Anyway you might regard me as an (unsuccesful) ?regulator?. I refrain from boring RADSAFErs by internals from the Austrian government, but I proceed to what you are obviously interested in ? ALARA. Austria has adopted the relevant EU directive into national law, with some small reservations. So any regulations in the context of the EU Directive is ? hopefully ? in compliance with an ALARA concept. We have in Austria a very simple and most effective method of restricting use and discharge of radioactive material: Any company or institution, which wants to use radiioactive material and would discharge any of it has to have a license. This licence has to be granted by the relevant authority. The companies have to apply for the licence producing an expertise by a specialist who is acknowledged by the authorities. The authorities decide about the application and they put forwardfor instance conditions like the concentration and the amount of radionuclides to be emitted through stacks of waste water. Though I am one of the foremost to critizise Austrias policy against nuclear power and the politically motivated anti-Czech actions I think that this system is very effective and helpful. I do not know of any complaints by companies involved, but only of positive reactions. Steven, I hope this helps ? though it is really unspectacular. In case you receive any other messages from other countries I hope you forward them to RADSAFE. Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Steven Dapra [mailto:sjd at swcp.com] Gesendet: Sonntag, 04. M?rz 2007 22:27 An: Franz Sch?nhofer; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] unbelievable and unacceptable messages on RADSAFE March 4 You are correct, Franz, in stating that "this list is an international one". I would like to hear something from Austria. Why don't you present a short discussion and assessment of the current state of ALARA in Austria. (I do not know how widespread ALARA is, and am assuming it is used in Austria.) You could tell us how Austrian regulators interpret and apply ALARA. You could explain what the nuclear industry thinks of the regulators, and of ALARA, and how the industry copes with both. That would be a good place to start. After that has been thrashed out, we could move on to ALARA in other European countries, and in the Scandanavian countries. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com From torolaszlo at yahoo.com Wed Mar 7 02:07:57 2007 From: torolaszlo at yahoo.com (Toro Laszlo) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 00:07:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Po-210 as a poison Message-ID: <287188.70774.qm@web39208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Colegues, There is an interesting paper regarding the dosimetry of Po-210: http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0952-4746/27/1/001 the full text (pdf file) at http://www.iop.org/EJ/S/UNREG/SbXzc41HEJ88ZV,ez4dovA/article/0952-4746/27/1/001/jrp7_1_001.pdf yours, Laszlo Toro ====================================================================== Laszlo Toro PhD senior scientist CNCAN certified expert Institute of Public Health Timisoara Radiation Hygiene Dept. RO 300226 Timisoara Bd. V. Babes 16-18 Romania ph. +40 256 492101 ext 34 fax +40 256 492101 e-mail toro at ispt.ro torolaszlo at yahoo.com ====================================================================== ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 From m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl Wed Mar 7 06:26:23 2007 From: m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl (Marcel Schouwenburg) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 13:26:23 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large: Thread closed! In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070305183224.009f1120@mail.swcp.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070304192538.009ed130@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070305183224.009f1120@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <45EEAF6F.2040000@tudelft.nl> Dear RadSafers, In a renewed attempt to keep the list on the Health Physics track I hereby issue a general announcement to the whole list (besides several individual messages to some subscribers) regarding the below mentioned thread (and some others): RE: Terror in the US & world at large: Thread closed! I will start using these kinds of announcements frow now on whenever I see the list getting out of track. I expect RadSafe list members to stop sending message regarding closed threads to the list since I'm not intending to make the list pre-moderated. Pre-moderating the list will only take the dynamics out of RadSafe and will create an extra threshold for members intending to send a message. This is definitely not something I prefer since I don't like to punish the mass for the behaviour of a few members. However, it might become necessary in the (near) future to start pre-moderating if messages, similar to those posted recently, keep appearing on the list. As a reminder I resend the link to the RadSafe rules: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html Finally, remember you can use the delete button or use an e-mail filter (as indicated before by several RadSafers). With kind regards, Marcel Schouwenburg Head / Lecturer Training Centre Delft, Health Physicist, expert level 2 RadSafe Moderator & Listowner National Centre for Radiation Protection (Dutch abbr. NCSV) Delft University of Technology Faculty of Applied Sciences / Reactor Institute Delft Mekelweg 15 NL - 2629 JB DELFT The Netherlands T: +31 (0)15 27 86575 F: +31 (0)15 27 81717 M: +31 (0)6 419 83 145 E: m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl From Kotsch.Jeffrey at dol.gov Wed Mar 7 07:53:40 2007 From: Kotsch.Jeffrey at dol.gov (Kotsch, Jeffrey - ESA) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:53:40 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Federal Job Posting - Senior Health Physicist Message-ID: <49AE43260FD9C443B007FD0E0B675F73EA5945@esafpbmb04.esa.dir.labor.gov> The Department of Labor, Division of Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation, in Washington, DC, is looking to hire another Senior Health Physicist. Currently there are a Senior HP and HP on staff. The employee will serve as an expert with respect to providing advice and guidance on dose reconstructions in the proper adjudication of EEOICP claims. It is a GS-14 level position (salary range of $93,822 to 121,967). All of the details of the job and application instructions are in the vacancy announcements, which can be found at www.opm.gov . There are two announcement numbers. ESA-EE-07-54-MS is for all current or former federal employees with competitive/reinstatement eligibility, ICTAP/CTAP eligibles in the local commuting area and Veteran Employment Opportunity Act (VEOA) eligibles. ESA-EE-07-54-DEU is for non-status applicants. Both vacancy announcements close on April 6, 2007. If you would like to ask any questions of me, my contact information is below. Jeff Jeffrey L. Kotsch, CHP Senior Health Physicist U.S. Department of Labor Division of Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation Phone: 202/693-0188 Fax: 202/693-1465 kotsch.jeffrey at dol.gov From sandyfl at cox.net Wed Mar 7 09:11:50 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:11:50 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] U.S. to Owe Billions for Delays in Nuclear Dump, Official Says Message-ID: <45EE65B6.3932.533D363@sandyfl.cox.net> NOTE: I am traveling weswtward across the Pacific. Therefore, the next news posting will most likely occur on about March 21. I will respond to individual Radsafe or Powernet posts from my Blackberry ..... Index: *U.S. to Owe Billions for Delays in Nuclear Dump, Official Says *Reid vows to block nuclear waste bill *US pushes ahead on mountain nuclear dump *Accused caught at nuclear site *Barnwell site draws support *UK Faces Energy Gap, Needs Quick Nuclear Decision *Australians will accept nuclear power: Switkowski *Czechs, Slovaks urge EU to debate nuclear energy ----------------------------------------------------------------- U.S. to Owe Billions for Delays in Nuclear Dump, Official Says WASHINGTON, March 6 - The federal government will owe $7 billion in damages for delays in opening a nuclear waste dump if the repository opens in 2017 - the earliest date now possible - and any further delay will raise the price half a billion dollars a year, the head of the radioactive waste program said Tuesday. The money would reimburse current and former nuclear plant operators who signed contracts under which the federal government agreed to begin accepting their wastes in 1998. The official, Edward F. Sproat III, director of the Office of Civilian Radioactive Waste Management, said progress toward opening a waste repository at Yucca Mountain, Nev., near Las Vegas, had been slowed by lack of money, despite a $19.5 billion fund financed by a fee on each kilowatt-hour of electricity generated by reactors. He said the administration would ask Congress on Wednesday for easier access to the money. But he also acknowledged that the schedule had been hurt by problems in his office and with its contractors; 60 percent of the work his office is doing this year involves reanalyzing data that was rejected earlier because of signs of fraud. The administration will also request that the site be permitted to store more than the 70,000 metric tons originally set by Congress. That limit was set with the idea that the Energy Department would look for a second site, but it has made small progress toward opening the first one. Mr. Sproat spoke at a breakfast sponsored by The Energy Daily, a trade publication, and Areva, a reactor vendor. The nuclear waste issue has become more acute because for the first time since the 1970s, companies want to build new reactors, according to Mr. Sproat and others. But Mr. Sproat said investors would not lend money for construction unless the Energy Department resumed offering contracts to the utilities for waste disposal. --------------------- Reid vows to block nuclear waste bill WASHINGTON - The Energy Department unveiled legislation Tuesday to spur construction of a national nuclear waste dump in Nevada and increase its capacity. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (news, bio, voting record), D-Nev., immediately vowed to block the bill. That could spell more problems for the troubled Yucca Mountain nuclear waste dump, already years behind schedule. The Energy Department official who heads the project warned that without new funding that's part of the bill, a 2017 goal for opening the dump 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas could not be met. "If we don't have that we are certainly not going to be able to maintain the 2017 date," said Edward F. "Ward" Sproat, director of the Energy Department's Office of Civilian Radioactive Waste Management. Sproat also said that if the Yucca Mountain's capacity isn't increased from the current limit of 77,000 tons, as the bill proposes, he would have to recommend to Congress next year that a second nuclear waste dump be built. That would be a hard sell, as few states would want to host a nuclear waste dump. Sproat indicated that the prospect of a second nuclear waste dump could help convince Congress of the need to move forward with Yucca Mountain and approve the department's legislation. "It's part of what I would call the congressional education process," Sproat told reporters at a briefing organized by The Energy Daily. The new bill is similar to legislation the Energy Department offered last year that didn't advance. The political environment is even tougher for the measure this year now that Reid, an ardent Yucca Mountain opponent, is in charge of the Senate. "This is just the department's latest attempt to breathe life into this dying beast and it will fail," Reid said. "I will continue to leverage my leadership position to prevent the dump from ever being built." The bill doesn't specify how much more than 77,000 tons of nuclear waste should be allowed in Yucca Mountain, though federal environmental impact studies have estimated the dump could safely hold at least 132,000 tons. There's already more than 50,000 tons of nuclear waste piling up at nuclear power plants in 31 states with nowhere to go, something that's threatening taxpayers with mounting liability costs since the federal government was contractually obligated to begin storing nuclear utilities' waste starting in 1998. Reid's solution is to leave the nuclear waste at the sites where it already is, put it in dry cask storage units and allow the Energy Department to take ownership of it onsite to eliminate the problem of liability to utilities. He and Sen. John Ensign (news, bio, voting record), R-Nev., introduced their own legislation Tuesday to make those changes. In recent years Reid has also succeeded in cutting President Bush's budget request for Yucca. The project's 2007 budget, at $405 million, is nearly $150 million less than the administration wanted, which Sproat said is forcing project managers to put various initiatives on hold, including work on a rail line to transport the waste. The Energy Department's bill would ensure that annual revenues in a special nuclear waste fund paid for by utilities would be dedicated to Yucca Mountain outside the overall federal budgeting process, so that Yucca wouldn't have to compete with other programs for funding. This would guarantee Yucca Mountain dedicated funding of at least $750 million per year. ---------------- US pushes ahead on mountain nuclear dump Washington looks set for a political battle after the US Department of Energy presented plans to fast track a high-grade nuclear waste dump in the mountains of Nevada, stressing the need for an urgent resolution. The rugged mountains of Nevada are being presented as the best site for America's nuclear waste Energy Secretary, Samuel Bodman, has asked congressmen to vote the proposals through adding that there is no other plan on the table and that there is a pressing need for the US to improve its ability to manage and dispose of spent fuel from nuclear facilities and high- level radioactive waste from nuclear weapons. But Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid announced he would do everything in his power to block the bill when it reaches the upper house. "This legislative proposal reflects the Administration's strong commitment to advancing the development of the Yucca Mountain repository, while seeking to provide stability, clarity and predictability in moving the project forward," Secretary Bodman said. The Yucca Mountain repository is critical to the nation's current and future energy and national security needs, and I look forward to working with the Congress on developing a bill that can be passed by Congress and signed by the President." The proposed legislation would pave the way for a repository for the waste deep underground 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas and would also place permanent restrictions on land use in the surrounding area, effectively sealing off public access to the mountain forever. But Washington faces the same problems as other national governments keen to find suitable sites for burying nuclear waste - nobody wants to play host to a facility which will blight the region for perpetuity. The case is made harder to sell as the proposed legislation scraps the 70,000 tonne cap previously put forward for the site, 'in order to allow maximum use of the mountain's true technical capacity'. Those in favour of the dump argue that this would mean a single site could cope with the entire nation's nuclear waste for the foreseeable future. "We have a legal and moral obligation to get Yucca Mountain opened and operating," said Ward Sproat, director of the Office of Civilian Radioactive Waste Management. "Currently 55,000 metric tons of commercial spent nuclear fuel and defense high-level waste is being stored at more than 100 above- ground sites in 39 states, and that number grows by about 2,000 metric tons annually. "By entombing it deep in Yucca Mountain - a safe and secure permanent geologic repository - we can ensure public safety for thousands of generations." Yucca Mountain was approved by the Congress and the President as the site for the nation's first permanent spent nuclear fuel and high- level radioactive waste geologic repository in 2002 but the project has been plagued by delays and is already several years behind schedule. The chosen site is close to the Nevada Nuclear Testing Facility, open in the early 1950s and used as recently as 1992. It has the dubious claim to fame of having hosted the highest number of nuclear weapon detonations in the USA ------------------ Accused caught at nuclear site AT least two of the nine men accused of plotting a terrorist attack in Sydney were caught at the Lucas Heights nuclear plant, a court heard yesterday. In a document tendered to Penrith Local Court, police said Mazen Touma was questioned by an officer from the Counter Terrorist Command after he was seen riding a motorcycle at Lucas Heights on December 28, 2004. Touma was allegedly there with co-accused Abdul Rakib Hasan and another man named Mohammed. Counter Terrorism Command Detective Sergeant Garry Low questioned Touma on December 29 that year at his Bankstown home and was allegedly told by Touma that Mohammed wanted to buy the 125cc trail bike for his 12-year-old son and had asked to test-drive it. "I met them at Wangee Rd mosque at 4.30pm where we prayed and then they dropped their cars at my place and we went in my van to Lucas Heights," Touma allegedly told police. "When we got there we had problems so we didn't ride it for long, only a couple of hours. "As we were leaving the police drove past and I saw them start to follow us before they pulled us over and searched my van." Although Crown prosecutor Wendy Abraham QC did not specifically name the target for the alleged terrorist act in court, Lucas Heights has been listed as a possible target. During day three of the committal hearing for Touma, Hasan and their co-accused Bradley Umar Sariff Baladjam, Khaled and Moustafa Cheikho, Mohamed Ali Elomar, Mohammed Omar Jamal, Mirsad Mulahalilovic and Khaled Sharrouf, police told of their surveillance of the group, which involved listening devices, telephone intercepts and physical surveillance from July 8, 2004, until their arrests on November 8, 2005 ------------------ Barnwell site draws support Barnwell County?s love affair with a nuclear waste dump spilled into the Legislature during a hearing Tuesday on the future of a landfill that contributes to the county?s economy. Wearing "I support Barnwell" stickers and saying they need the more than $1 million the landfill produces each year for the community, county residents urged a panel of lawmakers not to close the dump to the nation next year as scheduled. But opponents of the 36-year-old landfill said a vote to keep the site open should not be based on Barnwell County?s economic desires. The low-level waste landfill has leaked, and other parts of South Carolina are vulnerable to contamination that could wash down the Savannah River, critics said. Communities in Beaufort County draw drinking water from the river or plan to in the near future, and the landfill needs to be closed, critics said. Barnwell County is "addicted" to the modest revenues generated by the landfill, and "we are paying the price," said former state Rep. Harriet Keyserling, who drove from Beaufort County to speak at Tuesday?s public hearing. "We ... are concerned about the Savannah River." Rep. Bill Herbkersman, R-Beaufort, said the state Legislature agreed in 2000 to close the landfill to the nation and that the Legislature shouldn?t pass a bill nullifying that law. This year?s bill, backed by landfill operator Chem-Nuclear, would allow the dump to remain open to the nation through 2023. It is the only commercial low-level site in the U.S. to take the most potent types of atomic refuse from any state. Current law restricts use of the landfill to South Carolina, Connecticut and New Jersey after next year. "We made a deal; let?s keep our end of the bargain," Herbkersman said. Columbia environmental lawyer Bob Guild, a Sierra Club official, told the committee the landfill has leaked on two different occasions: once in the mid-1970s and another time in the late 1990s, when a spill of radioactive waste flowed onto a nearby church?s land. Landfill operators say the spills have had little environmental impact. Tuesday?s hearing attracted more than 200 people and featured about 20 speakers. All told, more than 120 Barnwell landfill supporters showed up for the four-hour hearing. The session was so crowded legislators adjourned to a bigger room to accommodate the crowd, which had spilled into the hallway of a cramped meeting room. A subcommittee of the House Agriculture, Natural Resources and Environmental Affairs Committee, which held the hearing, is expected to vote in about two weeks whether to send the bill to the full committee. Landfill supporters praised Chem-Nuclear?s safety record and operation of the landfill, calling the company a good neighbor and a vital economic partner. The landfill contributes $1 million to $2 million annually to the county. "The economic future of Barnwell County and its 24,000 citizens who live there is in your hands," said Barnwell County Council chairman Keith Sloan, calling opponents of the measure "extreme" environmentalists. Sally Rogers, a lobbyist representing Chem-Nuclear, said the landfill will operate at a $3.6 million deficit if it closes to the nation next year as scheduled. She and a utility company representative said that with only South Carolina, Connecticut and New Jersey using the site, it could cause utility rates to rise to offset the losses. ---------------- UK Faces Energy Gap, Needs Quick Nuclear Decision LONDON -(Dow Jones)- The U.K. government needs to make a quick decision over a new generation of nuclear power plants or face a growing power generation gap and severe security of supply issues, according to a report from the U.K. Major Energy Users Council, or MEUC, released Wednesday. "If nuclear capacity cannot be built here perhaps we should build another plant in another European country with a trade link to access capacity," the report said. The MEUC, which represents major industrial, commercial, retail and public sector users of energy in the U.K., said the new generation of nuclear plants should be privately funded and backed up with long- term contracts with large power consumers. In July 2006, the U.K. government published its energy review, following a 12- week consultation, which confirmed its support for nuclear power. Environmental group Greenpeace last month won a legal challenge against this decision, which the judge said had been reached without the "fullest public consultation". Their victory could delay the construction of any potential new nuclear reactors in the country. MEUC also said U.K. gas prices weren't responding adequately to fundamentals of supply and demand due to a lack of liquidity and price transparency and called for further unbundling of utilities that have both supply and production businesses. The level of gas storage in the U.K. is also a concern, it added. The European carbon dioxide emissions trading system is an effective mechanism, the group said: "but Europe must hold back from higher taxes or tighter emissions standards until China and the U.S. follow suit by cutting their emissions." ------------------ Australians will accept nuclear power: Switkowski The head of the Prime Minister's nuclear task force, Dr Ziggy Switkowski, has predicted that Australians will accept uranium enrichment and nuclear power generation as part of action to curb greenhouse emissions. He has told a Sydney business lunch that he believes the Labor Party will take the first step by lifting policy bans on expanding uranium mining and exports. "When the ALP have their national convention in April this year, the leadership have foreshadowed for some time that they will be revisiting the ALP objections to this with a view to reversing their position on this," he said. "It may well be that this is the first aspect of the nuclear fuel cycle which sees bipartisan support for lifting restrictions on uranium mining in Australia." ----------------- Czechs, Slovaks urge EU to debate nuclear energy BRUSSELS - The Czech Republic and Slovakia will use the European Union?s summit this week to try to revive a debate on the merits of nuclear energy, diplomats said on Wednesday. The two EU newcomers believe countries that shun atom energy should reconsider their stance, as investing in nuclear power plants would help the bloc to achieve its goal of cutting carbon dioxide emissions to fight global warming. `The atmosphere around nuclear energy is changing. It?s the right time to start a debate on its merits,? said Jan Kohout, the Czech ambassador to the EU. A Slovak diplomat said: `We should start to discuss nuclear energy more openly. It is time to get rid of this taboo.? The diplomat, who asked not to be named, said the EU should set up a `Nuclear Energy Forum?, or a small body facilitating the exchange of information and joint actions. He suggested the Slovak capital of Bratislava host the organisation. France, which produces the majority of its electricity from nuclear power plants, tacitly supports giving atomic power more prominence in the bloc?s long-term energy plans, another EU diplomat said. Many EU members, led by Austria, oppose nuclear power as dangerous, expensive and leaving harmful waste, with memories still fresh of a nuclear reactor accident in Chernobyl, Ukraine in 1986. The executive European Commission did not take sides on the issue in its proposal for the EU?s long-term energy programme due to be discussed at the summit on Thursday and Friday. But analysts say nuclear energy is making a slow comeback in Europe as a result of high oil prices, safer technologies, fears of dependence on Russian oil and gas, and because it produces no `greenhouse gases? blamed for climate change. Finland has become the first of the `old? EU members in a decade to decide on building a nuclear power plant and German Chancellor Angela Merkel has called for extending the life of the country?s nuclear plants despite a deal to phase them out. Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland have recently launched talks on building a large nuclear facility by 2015, partly to become less dependent on Russian energy. Both Czech and Slovak diplomats said their countries would oppose setting a binding target for the EU to produce 20 percent of its energy from renewable sources. They said that unlike many EU member states their countries have little sun for solar energy, limited prospects for hydro-power and no sea coast, so winds tend to be weak. ------------------ Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From jdaitken at sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com Wed Mar 7 10:37:18 2007 From: jdaitken at sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com (Doug Aitken) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:37:18 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear Waste DUMP.... In-Reply-To: <45ED792A.25041.19813E5@sandyfl.cox.net> References: <45ED792A.25041.19813E5@sandyfl.cox.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20070307103257.04527370@us1061-pop3.mail.slb.com> At 04:22 PM 3/6/2007, Sandy Perle wrote: >............... >Officials push for Yucca nuclear dump > >WASHINGTON - The Energy Department unveiled legislation Tuesday to >spur construction of a national nuclear waste dump in Nevada Interesting to see the "subliminal" spin by the use of the term "dump"........ (inferring that the material will just be "dumped" on Yucca Mountain rather than carefully contained........) Once again, the press does it's duty to inform the public....... ;~) Doug Doug Aitken Office Phone Use Cell phone! QHSE Advisor Home Phone 713 797-0919 D&M Operations Support Cell Phone 713 562-8585 Schlumberger Technology Corporation From chemitech at chemitech.com Wed Mar 7 10:51:10 2007 From: chemitech at chemitech.com (Marco Caceci) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 17:51:10 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Neutron sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01f501c760d8$cf02d420$4001a8c0@acer> Being in the business of making neutron detectors now... I suppose, but I'd rather check, that one cannot buy "exempt" neutron sources in the US or in NL for that matter. So what would happen if I cook a few uCi Am and Li pills in the kitchen? Do I get to visit Guantanamo on an "exempt" US govnmt flight? How about pulsed neutron sources? Are there restrictions also on the D-D tubes? The experts' advise would be highly appreciated.... Marco Marco Caceci LQC sl www.radal.com From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 7 11:12:14 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:12:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] From Russia with love...Thallium Poisons U.S. Mother, Daughter in Moscow Message-ID: <345305.21213.qm@web81602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aAxLbT1odwEA&refer=us_ Thallium Poisons U.S. Mother, Daughter in Moscow (Update3) By Bradley Cook and Henry Meyer March 6 (Bloomberg) -- A mother and daughter from the U.S. have been hospitalized in Moscow after being poisoned with thallium, Russian officials said. The U.S. Embassy confirmed that the two are in a hospital. Embassy officials are in contact with the family of Marina and Yana Kovoletsky and are providing assistance, an embassy spokeswoman said today by telephone. She declined to give her name, citing government policy. The women were taken Feb. 24 to the Sklifosovsky clinic, where it took doctors four days to determine they had been poisoned with thallium, said the Moscow branch of the sanitary inspection agency, Rospotrebnadzor. Thallium is a highly toxic metallic element used in products ranging from photocells to rat poison. Moscow police are tracing the women's movements before they were hospitalized and testing people they came into contact with, the Interfax news agency said. Investigators said the women, who were born in the Soviet Union in 1958 and 1981 and emigrated to the U.S. in 1989, could have been poisoned before entering Russia and may seek the help of U.S. law enforcement officials, the news service said. Only a small circle of people would be capable of getting their hands on thallium, said Lev Fyodorov, head of the Union for Chemical Safety, a Russian nongovernmental organization. He added that the case deserved close attention. The radioactive isotope thallium-201 was used in 2003 to assassinate Russian lawmaker and journalist Yuri Shchekochikhin, who wrote about organized crime and corruption in Moscow. Condition Serious The women are in ``moderately serious'' condition, Rospotrebnadzor said. In November last year, Alexander Litvinenko, a Kremlin critic who had worked in Russia's FSB intelligence agency, died in a London hospital after exposure to a rare radioactive substance, polonium-210. The British doctors treating him initially suspected thallium poisoning. In a deathbed statement, Litvinenko accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of ordering his murder, an accusation the Kremlin later called ``absurd.'' To contact the reporters on this story: Bradley Cook in Moscow at bcook7 at bloomberg.net ; Henry Meyer in Moscow at hmeyer4 at bloomberg.net Last Updated: March 6, 2007 11:52 EST Roy Herren --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Wed Mar 7 14:46:34 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 12:46:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Terror in the US & world at large In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070306181602.009f6ec0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <327232.63976.qm@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> Yes, that would make sense. I remember that story about the missing B-29. --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 6 > > This was my mistake. I received a private > e-mail advising me that > the airplane was a B-29. My apologies for the > error. > > Steven Dapra > > > At 01:42 PM 3/6/07 -0800, John Jacobus wrote: > >Was the plane a DC-3 or the military equivalent, > the > >C-47. > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Wed Mar 7 14:54:54 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 12:54:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear Waste DUMP.... In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20070307103257.04527370@us1061-pop3.mail.slb.com> Message-ID: <126189.61935.qm@web54309.mail.yahoo.com> I always thought that Northern New Jersey around the Bayway refinery was a dump. --- Doug Aitken wrote: > At 04:22 PM 3/6/2007, Sandy Perle wrote: > >............... > >Officials push for Yucca nuclear dump > > > >WASHINGTON - The Energy Department unveiled > legislation Tuesday to > >spur construction of a national nuclear waste dump > in Nevada > > Interesting to see the "subliminal" spin by the use > of the term "dump"........ > > (inferring that the material will just be "dumped" > on Yucca Mountain rather > than carefully contained........) > > Once again, the press does it's duty to inform the > public....... > ;~) > Doug > > > Doug Aitken Office Phone Use > Cell phone! > QHSE Advisor Home Phone 713 > 797-0919 > D&M Operations Support Cell Phone 713 562-8585 > Schlumberger Technology Corporation > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From edaxon at satx.rr.com Wed Mar 7 19:41:59 2007 From: edaxon at satx.rr.com (Eric D) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 19:41:59 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Exempt Quantities and Sources Below Regulatory Concern Message-ID: <003101c76122$f6c3adf0$0b00a8c0@D8RSR871> This Email was sparked by a comment Franz Sch?nhofer made in an earlier post. I am curious about how other nations handle the issue of sources that are either exempt from regulation or are so low that they are below regulatory concern. Any and all information would be appreciated. Eric Daxon From sjd at swcp.com Wed Mar 7 21:38:55 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:38:55 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Han Kang's epidemiology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070307203444.009f15c0@mail.swcp.com> March 7, 2007 Steven Dapra wrote: James -- why don't you answer *my* question about Han Kang's alleged 2.2 increased risk? Remember? The one he made in Gulf War Review. See my e-mail to RADSAFE of Feb. 28. Did his claim ever pass peer review, was it published, and if so, what is the citation? My reply, paragraphy by paragraph, Salsman, then Dapra. JS (James Salsman): Think about it: Kang publishes a 1.8 risk ratio (2.8 for children of female 1991 combat-deployed troops) in Annals of Epidemiology in 2001, and critics say that the self-reported surveys must have been mistaken -- our fighting men and women, the critics say, must have been lying about their own kids health. SD (Steven Dapra) This is another example of James Salsman's resounding dishonesty. Kang et al. reported a 1.80 crude Odds Ratio for moderate to severe adverse outcomes among liveborn infants to male Gulf War veterans. He reported a 2.80 adjusted Odds Ratio for moderate to severe adverse outcomes among liveborn infants to female Gulf War veterans. Why is JS playing pick-and-choose? Could it be because these are the highest Odds Ratios in the moderate to severe category? What's the matter, James? Have you no sense of decency at long last? Self-reported studies must be verified by examining medical records. NOBODY is accusing anybody of lying about anyone's health. JS Dr. Margaret Ryan, whose DoD Birth and Infant Health Registry at the Naval Health Research Center is charged with publication of the reproductive health records which Kang and Araneta had been summarizing independently of each other, abruptly stops publishing tabulated statistics in 2001, writes a letter in response to Araneta's article (which echoed Kang's claims), saying that Araneta's methodology was flawed without saying why, and then co-authors a whitewash with Pat Doyle -- who detected the same increase, by the way, but discounted it as "reporting error" in her own paper -- calling the 80% increase in birth defects "modest." SD Where was Ryan's letter published? Please give a citation, and a citation to the germane article by Araneta. Give the citation to the paper by Doyle that you call "her own paper." The Ryan-Doyle "whitewash" paper appears to be "Reproductive health of Gulf War veterans" (Doyle et al. 2006). On p. 574, Doyle et al. refer to the paper by Kang et al. in Annals of Epidemiology, and to a 2004 paper by Doyle et al. Continuing on p. 574, Doyle et al. then write, "Both reported some evidence of a modest increase in risk of birth defect for male veterans' offspring born after the war, although cautious interpretations were offered because of concern about reporting bias." I can't comment directly on your (JS's) "80% increase" claim because as far as I have not read that paper. However, Doyle, Ryan, and their co-author wrote that there was a modest increase in "risk," NOT an increase in actual birth defects. JS So Dr. Kang goes back and reviews 700+ medical records, and finds that the number of birth defects has increased 20%. He publishes that in his agency newsletter. SD According to "Gulf War Review," (GWR) (Nov. 2003, p. 7), Kang is a "VA researcher." I think it's stretching things a little to call GWR Kang's "agency newsletter." By the way, above you said someone (I can't tell who) reported an "80% increase" in birth defects. Now, you (JS), are waving around Kang and his mere 20%. Are you going to fulminate about an 80% increase, or about a 20% increase? Why don't you get your story straight, or at least decide what will be the object of your blustering. Furthermore, Kang did not publish any 20% increase in GWR, at least not in the Nov. 2003 issue. According to a footnote to an article with no byline, " . . . Dr. Kang and his colleagues concluded that the risk of birth defects in children of deployed male veterans still was about 2.2 times that of non-deployed veterans." (p.10) To reiterate, Kang did not publish anything. And now you (JS), have gone from Kang's 2.2 increased risk to saying he found "the number of birth defects has increased 20%." What are you doing, James? Is this Modern Math? Are you reading any of this stuff before you write about it? Do you proofread what you write? Or are you so confused you don't know what you are doing? Finally, what is the basis for your claim that Kang reviewed "700+ medical records"? JS Then Eric Daxon lies that Kang actually found a decrease after medical records review, not an increase. SD Can't you do anything but call people liars? JS I spoke to Dr. Kang not too long ago, and yes, he is seeking publication of his most recent findings in the peer reviewed medical literature. Please phone him yourself and ask about it if you are curious. His telephone number is 202-745-8249. SD It has been over three years since the footnote said Kang concluded there was a 2.2 increase in risk. According to GWR (Nov. 2003), his research was "currently undergoing peer review." Kang's Annals paper took seven months to make it into print, Araneta in Birth Defects Research took eight months, and Penman in Military Medicine took five months. If Kang can't get his 2.2 (or 20%) published in three years, perhaps his claim has no merit. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com REFERENCE Doyle, P., Maconochie, N., and Ryan, M. Reproductive health of Gulf War Veterans. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B (2006); 361, 571-584. At 08:29 PM 3/6/07 -0800, James Salsman wrote: >Steven Dapra wrote: > >>James -- why don't you answer *my* question about Han Kang's >>alleged 2.2 increased risk? Remember? The one he made in Gulf War >>Review. See my e-mail to RADSAFE of Feb. 28. Did his claim ever >>pass peer review, was it published, and if so, what is the citation? [edit] From LNMolino at aol.com Wed Mar 7 22:42:23 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 23:42:23 EST Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear Waste DUMP.... Message-ID: In a message dated 3/7/2007 3:08:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, crispy_bird at yahoo.com writes: I always thought that Northern New Jersey around the Bayway refinery was a dump. it is I ought to know as 37 year (former) resident of NJ. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From luke.mccormick at dhs.gov Thu Mar 8 05:08:58 2007 From: luke.mccormick at dhs.gov (Mccormick, Luke I) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 06:08:58 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Neutron sources Message-ID: If you are working with D-D neutron generators, you would fall under OSHA regulations in 29 CFR 1096. Additionally depending on which State you are in you may have additonal State regulations and licensing requirements. ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: [ RadSafe ] Neutron sources Author: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl Date: 3/7/2007 11:51 AM Being in the business of making neutron detectors now... I suppose, but I'd rather check, that one cannot buy "exempt" neutron sources in the US or in NL for that matter. So what would happen if I cook a few uCi Am and Li pills in the kitchen? Do I get to visit Guantanamo on an "exempt" US govnmt flight? How about pulsed neutron sources? Are there restrictions also on the D-D tubes? The experts' advise would be highly appreciated.... Marco Marco Caceci LQC sl www.radal.com _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jrvollm at sbcglobal.net Thu Mar 8 07:55:03 2007 From: jrvollm at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Vollmer) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 05:55:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Electronic Personal Neutron Dosimeters Message-ID: <20070308135503.21452.qmail@web83607.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am interested in other list users experiences with Neutron EPDs. We are evaluating implementing them for use. Jeffrey S. Vollmer, CHP From yravello at ipen.gob.pe Thu Mar 8 08:30:06 2007 From: yravello at ipen.gob.pe (Yuri Ravello) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:30:06 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Exempt Quantities and Sources Below Regulatory Concern In-Reply-To: <003101c76122$f6c3adf0$0b00a8c0@D8RSR871> Message-ID: <001b01c7618e$45c95060$080c0a0a@IPEN.GOB.PE> Dear Eric, In Peru (South America Country), the National Authority has a legal norm the use the recommendations from IAEA BSS-115 to exempt sources. My best regards, Lic. Yuri Ravello Evaluador-Inspector Oficina T?cnica de la Autoridad Nacional Instituto Peruano de Energ?a Nuclear Calle Justo Vigil 456 - Magdalena del Mar Tel?fono: +51.1.4631170 o +51.1.4631171 Fax: +51.1.4631166 "Este mensaje electr?nico y sus documentos adjuntos, s?lo son para conocimiento y uso de la persona(s) y/o instituci?n a quien va dirigido. Si usted no es el destinatario(s), agradeceremos se abstenga de copiarlos, divulgarlos o usarlos, as? como agradeceremos comunique este error a la siguiente direcci?n ipen at ipen.gob.pe y borre de su equipo este mensaje y los documentos adjuntos en caso contenga alguno. La lectura de este mensaje presupone que usted comprende y acepta los t?rminos de este aviso" -----Mensaje original----- De: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] En nombre de Eric D Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 07 de marzo de 2007 20:42 Para: radsafe at radlab.nl Asunto: [ RadSafe ] Exempt Quantities and Sources Below Regulatory Concern This Email was sparked by a comment Franz Sch?nhofer made in an earlier post. I am curious about how other nations handle the issue of sources that are either exempt from regulation or are so low that they are below regulatory concern. Any and all information would be appreciated. Eric Daxon _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Este mensaje electr?nico y sus documentos adjuntos, s?lo son para conocimiento y uso de la persona(s) y/o Instituci?n a quien va dirigido. Si usted no es el destinatario(s), agradeceremos se abstenga de copiarlos, divulgarlos o usarlos, as? como agradeceremos comunique este error a la siguiente direcci?n postmaster at ipen.gob.pe y borre de su equipo este mensaje y los documentos adjuntos en caso contenga alguno. La lectura de este mensaje presupone que usted comprende y acepta los t?rminos de este aviso From mborisky at arl.army.mil Thu Mar 8 14:23:43 2007 From: mborisky at arl.army.mil (Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:23:43 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: <000101c761b4$7ddfe060$49197254@pc1> References: <000101c761b4$7ddfe060$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Franz, Instead of calming down? I though we were done with this discussion. And I moved it off-line so the rest of RADSAF would not be subjected to it. It appears you moved it back on-line. I hope this is our last exchange, and if not, the last one on-line. My apologies to the RADSAF community. Anyway, I of course disagee with what you have written below or I never would have entered this dialogue with you. But if you are so innocent as you say you are, then you will have no difficulty meeting my challenge to you to communicate with us all on RADSAF for 1 year without making any personal insults or political jabs. We will be watching, and I sincerely hope you succeed. But you are already off to a bad start. Your stating in the message below on a public forum that "very few of James Salsman's comments are interesting" is a mild example of the kind of unprovoked personal jabs I am talking about. It achieve nothing constructive, and only poisions the waters. Mike A word is dead when it is said, some say. I say, it just begins to live that day. Emily Dickenson -----Original Message----- From: Franz Sch?nhofer [mailto:franz.schoenhofer at chello.at] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 2:04 PM To: Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO); RADSAFE Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Mr. Borisky, Instead of calming down you obviously intend to escalate this discussion. Sorry I will not satisfy your claim for escalation. I think I have never started any controversial discussion - if so, please provide evidence. I have (not) always reacted to insults and provocations from outside, but I think this is my right to do so. I am not the center of every conflict on RADSAFE. I have since long refrained to participate in the discussion on the messages of Howard Long, though I sometimes send him a friendly message, nor James Salsman - though I hope that he does not get to much frustrated, because only a few (really only a very few!) of his comments are interesting. What you call "conflict" is in my opinion "discussion". If you dislike my comments, you are cordially asked to take the most simple countermeasure - namely to block messages from me. Marcel has suggested it in his message. I am happy about Marcels decision to stop this incredible discussion. Though: Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO) [mailto:mborisky at arl.army.mil] Gesendet: Dienstag, 06. M?rz 2007 14:16 An: Franz Sch?nhofer Betreff: RE: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Franz, You provide more of the same, as I expected. Only you would introduce terms like "hateful" and "banning" and "personal non grata" into this discussion - uncalled for escalation and drama. If you saw the error of your ways, then you would have stopped your insults and provocation long ago and not be the center of every conflict on RADSAF. With your knowledge of statistics, ask yourself how likely it is that you are at the center of nearly all RADSAF conflicts, and then ask yourself how likely this is due to chance. Think about it. It is you Franz, what you say, and how you say it. BE NICE! I have a challenge for you, see if you can communicate with us on RADSAF for 1 year without making any personal insults or political jabs. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Franz Sch?nhofer [mailto:franz.schoenhofer at chello.at] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 4:58 PM To: Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO); 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; 'J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental)' Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Mike, or Mr. Borisky or Mr. Civ.ARL/ADLO, Your first message seemed to me to be a polite one and therefore I had intended to give a detailed answer. Excuse that in the meantime I took advantage of the sunny weather to walk outside. Now I have found two messages I can only classify as hateful. So I answer only very short to your points, without any unnecessary politeness. I only react to messages on RADSAFE, I never raise any "hateful" comments myself. I do not endorse banning somebody from the list, though in my opinion one could consider it for a person using Nazi-speak, who insists on using it again and again. From his recent posts I could draw the conclusion that he uses the term of "Uebermenschen" for another countries population. Your claim that I raise conflicts and use tactics (??) and spread obvious and subtle anti-US sentiments is ridiculous like everything you write in this context - do you yourself believe in it? My comments on Mr. Perle have been well founded and in context with the most recent discussion I have clearly declared that he is a persona non grata for me and that I will not react any more to his insults. You are a good example of US persons neglecting anything which occurs outside the USA - and in the context of opposition to wars even neglecting the US public opinion. Believe me, that there is to my knowledge no country in Europe, not to talk about other parts of the world, which would mentally support the Iraq war. Whether you like my comments after I have been rather more than less being provocated is your personal opinion. But to claim "in the name of ....." that I should be banned from the list is probably understandable from the point of view that you are a member of the US military. I have been very happy to receive via RADSAFE the opinions of other RADSAFErs, which clearly support my opinion. Even more I have been happy about the many messages received by me personally, though it is not a good sign that people seem not to dare to expose their opinion openly. I still have excellent contacts to my US friends and collegues. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO) [mailto:mborisky at arl.army.mil] Gesendet: Montag, 05. M?rz 2007 19:39 An: John Jacobus; Franz "Sch?nhofer; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental) Betreff: RE: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE John, Thanks! In my view, this is an extreme case. I didn't expect to have to endure political insults and needling on RADSAF. I consider us a family of professionals, and I don't like seeing my colleagues insulted and instigated into unnecessary conflict. List-owner please help. Mike -----Original Message----- From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 12:57 PM To: Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO); Franz "Sch?nhofer; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. Rozental (J. J. Rozental) Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak (UNCLASSIFIED) Mike, If you have any problems with Freanz's posting I suggest you correspond with him, or use the delete key. Only the List-owner can refuse to let individuals post on this list server. We have been down this road before, and will probably come up again. Censorship is only imposed in extreme cases. I hope even Sandy would agree. --- "Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)" wrote: > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > Franz, > > I request once again that you "knock it off". You are in my opinion > the only person on this list serve that makes inappropriate postings > and creates problems. You seem to thrive on and enjoy conflict, and > you use subtle and obvious techniques to > generate it. Seems you are constantly looking for > opportunities to make postings with obvious or subtle anti-US > sentiments. I can assure you there are other quiet RADSAF members > besides me that recognize your strategies and motives and don't > appreciate it. I would recommend that you eliminate your kind sign > offs with any reference to "kind regards" or "respect" as I, and > venture to say others, see them as completely disingenuous. "Be nice" > or please take your conflict elsewhere. And please leave Sandy and > everyone else alone and don't instigate them into your arena of > conflict and negativity. I am actually surprised that the moderator > allows you to continue posting. > > Mike Borisky > Army Research Lab > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Franz Sch?nhofer > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:55 PM > To: 'John Jacobus'; radsafe at radlab.nl; J. J. > Rozental (J. J. Rozental) > Subject: [ RadSafe ] X-Rays Scan Bodies, Mr. Perles Nazi speak > > Since I got tired of the subject I have not reacted to any message on > that subject since a long time, but what I yesterday read in the > discussion between John and Mr. Perle motivated me to plan to react > tomorrow, because what is distributed by Mr. Perle is just > hairraising. But his two last messages are so unacceptable that I > write this comment now. All attempts to intimitate me and ridicule me > are in vain, because such a character like Mr. > Perle cannot insult me. John, you know that I always have esteemed > your contributions I understand (I do not understand questions of > epidemiology and similar ones). Now I have to congratulate you, > because until now you are obviously the only US-citizen on RADSAFE to > speak out clearly against this paranoid "safety thinking", which seems > to be only used to intimitade people, subject them to humiliation > (been shown naked on screens) and to undermine the human rights and of > course to raise the profit of quite a few companies claiming that they > manufacture instruments and devices for "safety". I know more than > well, that these are not only my thoughts, but these are the thoughts > of many million US-citizens and influential groups. > Practically all of my US-friends and collegues are among them. > > So much now, but the main reason that I have not waited until > tomorrow, is, that Mr. Perle used the expression "sub-human" before > and even insisted on these words in his latest contribution. This is > clearly Nazi-Speak - in German "Untermenschen", a label given by > Nazi-Germany to non-arian people like all Slavs, including Russians, > Ukrainians, Poles, Czech, Slovenians, Serbs, Montenegrinians etc. > etc., the Romas (gypsies), Arabs and especially Jews. (It is > intersting that the Romas are genuine Arians.) I do not expect that > Mr. Perle has ever been to Auschwitz or Majdanek or any of the other > Nazi-extinction camps, where "sub-humans" were killed daily by the > thousands or rather tens of thousands like insects by using hydrogen > cyanide. I have been there and therefore I am more than allergic for > such words. > > Now I ask whether RADSAFE is the right place to use Nazi-speak. > Another US citizen has been banned many years ago from the list, > because he was calling an international organisation for "Gestapo". It > seems that this expression throws a light on Mr. Perles character. > More light I'll shed on him and his queer opinions tomorrow (like "he" > wants to be safe on flights and therefore everybody else has to > undergo humiliating procedures, not raising at all safety and > security). > > It is half past midnight and again I will go to sleep. The most recent > attempt to insult me by Mr. > Perle on 15 Feb. is ridiculous: I will not take an aspirin, because I > take it everyday in the morning according to my doctors advice. I do > not take something called "Luvox". I do not even know what it is, but > this only confirms that Mr. Perle is of the opinion that everybody in > this world should know US-brandnames and in a broader view succumb to > any US interest and request. Since I might concede that Mr. Perle > might be aware, that an Austrian does not know "Luvox" I take the > alternative conclusion that he was writing this for the US-market of > his company. > > Again, John, my deepest respect. Mr. Perle, please never adress me > personally again. > > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD > MinRat i.R. > Habicherg. 31/7 > A-1160 Wien/Vienna > AUSTRIA > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Sandy Perle > Gesendet: Freitag, 02. M?rz 2007 23:18 > An: John Jacobus; radsafe at radlab.nl > Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > John, > > Re-read my comment ... I said that the 9/11 were sub-human. They still > are in my opinion.. > > Sandy > > Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Jacobus > Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:56 > To:Sandy Perle , radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] New Airport X-Rays Scan Bodies, Not > Just Bags > > Wasn't the hijackings on Sept. 11 first thought to be like kidnapping > the plane to fly to another country? > Again, you are framing the issue as if our current round of terrorist > is unique. It is not. Our solution has certainly not changed the > risks we face. > We are just trying to build higher fences. > > I would add that your comment that the 19 hijackers of Sept 11 were > not subhuman. Maybe that is the problem with Americans looking at the > problems in the Middle East and other areas. They many not have > shared your beliefs, but your comments do remind me of the U.S.'s view > of the Japanese during WWII. > They were subhuman also. Times change. > > > --- Sandy Perle wrote: > > > John, > > > > One can't compare terrorism to the 60s where a > person simply got on a > > plane with a gun where there was no security check > performed. It > > wasn't until much later that metal detectors were > implemented and > > x-ray checking of carry-on. > > Heck, wasn't that long ago that that checked bags > were X-rayed. The > > terrorist of the 60s didn't want to kill > themselves .. and that reason > > was also blown up on 9/11 where 19 sub-humans > preferred to die along > > with the thousands of innocents that they > murdered. You can't compare > > apples and oranges. > > > > Sandy > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE From lewis at radonmine.com Thu Mar 8 09:57:46 2007 From: lewis at radonmine.com (Patricia Lewis) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 08:57:46 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine Message-ID: <003201c7619a$8e0c3110$6501a8c0@HOME> I apologize for duplicate mailings on this paper. Follow up with author if interested. Best, Patricia Lewis Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine http://www.radonmine.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IJLR Final vol 3 no 4 2006.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 63100 bytes Desc: not available URL: From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Thu Mar 8 11:47:54 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 18:47:54 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] From Russia with love...Thallium Poisons U.S. Mother, Daughter in Moscow In-Reply-To: <345305.21213.qm@web81602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c761a9$edbb9790$49197254@pc1> Roy, There was a similar thread after the first news came, that Mr. Litwinenko was poisoned by Thallium, alternatively Tl-201. Both is nonsense, because both nonradioactive Tl and Tl-201 can be detected in urine within a few minutes. The same is btw true for Po-210 using LSC methods, if it has been adminstered in lethal concentrations. Therefore I cannot understand, why doctors of Litwinenko suspected a Tl poisoning - which could have been excluded as mentioned within a few minutes. I as well as millions of other people have been subjected to so called "stress tests" in cardiological investigations. The amount of Tl-201 used would in no way produce any health consequences, the amount of "poisonous" elemental or rather ionic poisonous Tl is ridiculously low. I mentioned that some time ago on RADSAFE. Cui bono? To what advantage? Answer: to the massmedia distributing these sensations in order to raise their sale of newspapers and their "impact factor" and therefore income from advertising. Thank you anyway for forwarding these news! Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von ROY HERREN Gesendet: Mittwoch, 07. M?rz 2007 18:12 An: radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: [ RadSafe ] From Russia with love...Thallium Poisons U.S. Mother,Daughter in Moscow http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aAxLbT1odwEA&refer=us_ Thallium Poisons U.S. Mother, Daughter in Moscow (Update3) By Bradley Cook and Henry Meyer March 6 (Bloomberg) -- A mother and daughter from the U.S. have been hospitalized in Moscow after being poisoned with thallium, Russian officials said. The U.S. Embassy confirmed that the two are in a hospital. Embassy officials are in contact with the family of Marina and Yana Kovoletsky and are providing assistance, an embassy spokeswoman said today by telephone. She declined to give her name, citing government policy. The women were taken Feb. 24 to the Sklifosovsky clinic, where it took doctors four days to determine they had been poisoned with thallium, said the Moscow branch of the sanitary inspection agency, Rospotrebnadzor. Thallium is a highly toxic metallic element used in products ranging from photocells to rat poison. Moscow police are tracing the women's movements before they were hospitalized and testing people they came into contact with, the Interfax news agency said. Investigators said the women, who were born in the Soviet Union in 1958 and 1981 and emigrated to the U.S. in 1989, could have been poisoned before entering Russia and may seek the help of U.S. law enforcement officials, the news service said. Only a small circle of people would be capable of getting their hands on thallium, said Lev Fyodorov, head of the Union for Chemical Safety, a Russian nongovernmental organization. He added that the case deserved close attention. The radioactive isotope thallium-201 was used in 2003 to assassinate Russian lawmaker and journalist Yuri Shchekochikhin, who wrote about organized crime and corruption in Moscow. Condition Serious The women are in ``moderately serious'' condition, Rospotrebnadzor said. In November last year, Alexander Litvinenko, a Kremlin critic who had worked in Russia's FSB intelligence agency, died in a London hospital after exposure to a rare radioactive substance, polonium-210. The British doctors treating him initially suspected thallium poisoning. In a deathbed statement, Litvinenko accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of ordering his murder, an accusation the Kremlin later called ``absurd.'' To contact the reporters on this story: Bradley Cook in Moscow at bcook7 at bloomberg.net ; Henry Meyer in Moscow at hmeyer4 at bloomberg.net Last Updated: March 6, 2007 11:52 EST Roy Herren --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Thu Mar 8 17:07:36 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 15:07:36 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine In-Reply-To: <003201c7619a$8e0c3110$6501a8c0@HOME> References: <003201c7619a$8e0c3110$6501a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: Patrica This is an interesting subject as any good things about radiation dose always is! FYI, when I worked for Gordon Stewart and Doug Simpson (ex ICRP people) at AECL, CRNL, one of the items of interest in the Bioassay Lab. was a radium "belt". I was told that it had belonged to the first Director of the Lab, who (I as told) slept with it because "radiation was good". John John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Lewis" To: "Barbra Erickson" ; "RAD-SCI-L" Cc: "Scott, Bobby" ; "Ted Rockwell" ; "Edward Calabrese" ; "Ron Mitchel" ; "Jerry Cuttler" ; ; "TD Luckey" ; "M Vogel @MSU" ; "Myron Pollycove" ; "Ludwig Feinendegen" ; ; "Peter Deetjen" ; "Christoph K?stinger" ; "Robert J. Cihak" ; "Jim Muckerheide" Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:57 AM Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine >I apologize for duplicate mailings on this paper. Follow up with author if >interested. > > Best, > Patricia Lewis > Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine > http://www.radonmine.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From edaxon at satx.rr.com Thu Mar 8 20:06:52 2007 From: edaxon at satx.rr.com (Eric D) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 20:06:52 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Exempt Quantities and Sources Below Regulatory Concern In-Reply-To: <000001c76195$c8a311e0$49197254@pc1> References: <003101c76122$f6c3adf0$0b00a8c0@D8RSR871> <000001c76195$c8a311e0$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <003001c761ef$9b28aa40$0b00a8c0@D8RSR871> Franz Sch?nhofer wrote >> Though I speak and much better read at least a few languages of the European Union (German, English, French, Swedish, Danish, Spanish, Italian) this comparison of legislation would be worth a PhD-thesis!<< I don't know about a PhD thesis, but I am going to compile a comparison of the various regulations and make it available to RADSAFE. I am curious to compare the degree of autonomy given to local states, provinces (etc.) with respect to radiation regulations, the basis for the regulations, and how low-level and natural sources are handled. I am somewhat familiar with EU regulations (and will be more so after reading the EU regs) but know relatively little about any other regulations. If anyone wants to assist, please contact me separately. Eric Daxon -----Original Message----- From: Franz Sch?nhofer [mailto:franz.schoenhofer at chello.at] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 9:24 AM To: 'Eric D'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Exempt Quantities and Sources Below Regulatory Concern Eric and RADSAFErs interested in this topic, Also to this question we have in Austria a very practicable and simple solution. Those who know me and my heavy criticism against (especially Austrian) bureaucracy might be surprised by the above statement!) The European Union Radiation Protection Directive contains regulations for radionuclide concentrations and quantities exempt from the provisions of the Directive. The address of it is http://ec.europa.eu/energy/nuclear/radioprotection/dfoc/legislation/9629.en. pdf. Look at Annex I. I hope I copied the address correctly, otherwise it can be found on google using the keyword "96/29/Euratom". The text on this address is in English, it is of course available in all other languages of the member states of the European Union by replacing the "en" by the appropriate abbreviation of the other language. These exempt quantities have been implemented into Austrian law (if I remember correctly with one or two unimportant exceptions). To draw the legal conclusion: Any quantity or concentration being below these levels are in Austria not considered to be radioactive - therefore no license is necessary and no application to the authorities is necessary. The same is true for the discharge of such substances. Austria is by history and law a federal state. The "states" ("Bundesl?nder") are really small and have survived since the middle ages to some extent even in the constitution of 1920 (?) after the Habsburg empire had previously broken down. Certain tasks are the duty of the "states", but most are duties of the federal government. The federal government can delegate certain duties to the provincial government. Many decades ago it was fortunately decided by the highest court, that radiation protection is a matter of health and therefore the responsibility of the federal government. If this would not have been stated, we otherwise would have now in Austria for a population of 8 million inhabitants 9 different radiation protection laws, different for each "state". This does not change the fact, that for some duties the provincial governments are responsible. They are very eager to harmonize their procedures, when there is for instance the question of handling cases like new x-ray-systems, computer tomographs, shielding of application rooms of radiopharmaceuticals etc. etc. For this purpose there is once a year a meeting of all those authorites - both on federal and provincial level - involved in licensing. Since I do not participate any more, because I am retired, I know from my previous involvement and the reports of my collegues, that they had always been and still are held in perfect harmony, contrary to almost all political meetings. Almost all use the German word "Du" (you) instead of the usual formal "Sie" (in English probably "thou"). There are not different federal authorities with different conditions for licenses. I could imagine after having read at RADSAFE thousands of complaints and questions searching for advice in the jungle of licensing and referring to the pitfalls of US legislation, that such a system might be a heaven for a license applicant in the USA. Well, Eric, so much about Austria. Now let us talk about other countries in the EU: The Directive is a kind of a guideline. Very important is the freedom in some of the recommendations given to member states to deviate either to higher or lower values from the recommended ones or to implement their own regulations on topics like exposure to natural sources, including Naturally Occurring Radioactive Material or exposure of airline personal. Similar conclusions are valid for the Drinking Water Directive as to the Indicative Dose of Radioactive Contaminants. National legislation has been issued by several member states. Though I speak and much better read at least a few languages of the European Union (German, English, French, Swedish, Danish, Spanish, Italian) this comparison of legislation would be worth a PhD-thesis! I hope you receive a lot of replies on RADSAFE. But you should be aware, that the attitude of some US hardliners to ridicule everything which comes from outside might belittle these information. In case I could be of help for you or other RADSAFErs, please contact me again. Do not expect me to solve all your commercial problems for sending or receiving radionuclides. Best regards. Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Eric D Gesendet: Donnerstag, 08. M?rz 2007 02:42 An: radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: [ RadSafe ] Exempt Quantities and Sources Below Regulatory Concern This Email was sparked by a comment Franz Sch?nhofer made in an earlier post. I am curious about how other nations handle the issue of sources that are either exempt from regulation or are so low that they are below regulatory concern. Any and all information would be appreciated. Eric Daxon _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Thu Mar 8 16:47:53 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 23:47:53 +0100 Subject: AW: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear plant planning moves ahead In-Reply-To: <45E72BA1.7090604@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <000001c761d3$d9b9e1a0$49197254@pc1> Hi, everyone on RADSAFE, Unfortunately the original message by Jaro has been lost on my computer. Nevertheless I can confirm that according to our extremely anti-nuclear mass media in Austria it was distributed, that 2000L of cooling water were according to Czech authorities liberated by an open valve and were easily collected in the recipient which had been provided to cover this case. According to the Czech authorities and repeated by Austrian authorities and mass media, no radioactivity was liberated. The first one to claim radioactive contamination would in my opinion have been the Austrian mass media, but it obviously was not the case. I wonder, how obviously US mass media got the "radioactive contamination" from. I do not blame Mr. Perle, because he simply copies mass media messages. However it was distributed in Austrian mass media today, that a second release of cooling water to the extent of 1 m3 occurred. But the coverage of this alleged release is very weak. The agreement (also called the "Melk protocol" for the beautiful place of Melk with a great monastary above the Danube river) made between Austria and the Czech Republic states that any "relevant event" in and around the Temelin Nuclear Power Plant has to be notified for the Austrian authorities within 72 (seventy two!) hours. This recent incident was only notified after 50 (fifty!) hours. The question is whether this incident would have been to be notified at all according to the Melk Protocol. However: There seems to have no radioactive material been liberated. Nobody was put at risk. However some groups had their propaganda. I have read that some blockage of the transit stations between Austria and the Czech Republic occured. I saw one picture on the internet, about 15 to 20 people blocking a road in such a way, that any car could go across. I did not see any declared anti-nuclear greens nor anybody from the multi-national concern Greenpeace or the several Austrian counterparts like Global 2000 and other ones. These are the facts, contrary to the various mass media. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Maury Siskel Gesendet: Donnerstag, 01. M?rz 2007 20:38 An: Franta, Jaroslav Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Awwright young man, you had better watch these embellishments or the atomic tooth fairy will smite thee with a blinding blue flash!!!! And they might impound thy keyboard! Your behavior is being surveiled .... Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) ===================== Franta, Jaroslav wrote: >I can see the great newsworthiness of this story..... > >"About 2 000 liters of radioactive water leaked.... to a special tank >through a special sewage system.... an open valve caused the leak." > >But I think that even with my amateurish journalistic talents, I could >easily top that: > >"Tens of thousands of liters of radioactive water leaked for days.... from >the reactor to a special steam > -----------------snipped------------- _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From baine at kenyon.edu Fri Mar 9 07:58:38 2007 From: baine at kenyon.edu (Emily Bain) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:58:38 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Department of Health and Human Services Online Toolkit: Medical Response to Radiation Emergencies Message-ID: <45F1680E.2060208@kenyon.edu> Good morning, FYI United States Department of Health and Human Services new tool: radiation emergency medical response tool (please refer to the following note). Best regards, Emily Bain Date: March 8, 2007 For Release: Immediately Contact: HHS Press Office (202) 690-6343 Headline: HHS LAUNCHES NEW ONLINE TOOLKIT FOR MEDICAL RESPONSES TO RADIATION EMERGENCIES HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt today announced the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has developed a new downloadable online diagnostic and treatment toolkit designed for health care providers, primarily physicians, who may have to provide medical care during a radiation incident. The new information package includes easy-to-follow procedures for diagnosis and management of radiation contamination and exposure, guidance for the use of radiation medical countermeasures, and a variety of other features to facilitate medical responses. All of this is now available on the Radiation Event Medical Management (REMM) Web site (http://REMM.NLM.GOV). "The REMM toolkit is part of our effort to improve public health emergency preparedness and response," Secretary Leavitt said. "It reflects the department's commitment to help instill a spirit of preparedness throughout our nation." Guidance on diagnosis and treatment will help health care providers by describing: * types of radiation emergencies they may face * initial medical actions at the incident site and or medical facility * key steps in patient care Critical information is presented in a format that will quickly and efficiently orient and guide health care providers during a mass casualty radiation event. In addition to online access, federal, state and local medical response teams will be able to download REMM information on laptop computers for quick access when they are deployed to a radiation incident or for training sessions. Users can also register for automatic e-mail updates whenever information is changed or added to the REMM Web site. Future plans include formatting the REMM material for use on Personal Digital Assistant (PDA) devices, additional multimedia graphics, and more topic areas, such as follow-up patient care of radiation's chronic effects. A team of subject matter experts from the HHS' Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response, the National Institutes of Health's National Cancer Institute and National Library of Medicine and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention collaborated on the development and design of the REMM tool. -- Emily Bain Office of Environmental Health and Safety Kenyon College 101 Allen House Gambier, OH 43022-9623 T 740/ 427-5575 F 740/ 427-5427 From sandyfl at cox.net Fri Mar 9 10:45:27 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (=?UTF-8?B?U2FuZHkgUGVybGU=?=) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 16:45:27 +0000 Subject: AW: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News]Nuclear plant planning moves ahead In-Reply-To: <000001c761d3$d9b9e1a0$49197254@pc1> References: <45E72BA1.7090604@peoplepc.com> <000001c761d3$d9b9e1a0$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <1907269780-1173458732-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-1903903004-@bxe035-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Some of the sources for the various news posting regarding Czech plant were found on EU wire serviefs as well as other international wire services. Of course once a story hits the wires, others pick up the feed and post it under their company name, AP, Reuters or Kyodo, for example. In the past all US postings regarding nuclear power were focused on the negative. It's nice to see a change of direction. Traveling in the Pacific, but still reading Radsafe, keeping up-to-date on happenings. Sandy Perle Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -----Original Message----- From: Franz Sch?nhofer Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 23:47:53 To:"'Maury Siskel'" ,"'Franta, Jaroslav'" Cc:radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: AW: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Hi, everyone on RADSAFE, Unfortunately the original message by Jaro has been lost on my computer. Nevertheless I can confirm that according to our extremely anti-nuclear mass media in Austria it was distributed, that 2000L of cooling water were according to Czech authorities liberated by an open valve and were easily collected in the recipient which had been provided to cover this case. According to the Czech authorities and repeated by Austrian authorities and mass media, no radioactivity was liberated. The first one to claim radioactive contamination would in my opinion have been the Austrian mass media, but it obviously was not the case. I wonder, how obviously US mass media got the "radioactive contamination" from. I do not blame Mr. Perle, because he simply copies mass media messages. However it was distributed in Austrian mass media today, that a second release of cooling water to the extent of 1 m3 occurred. But the coverage of this alleged release is very weak. The agreement (also called the "Melk protocol" for the beautiful place of Melk with a great monastary above the Danube river) made between Austria and the Czech Republic states that any "relevant event" in and around the Temelin Nuclear Power Plant has to be notified for the Austrian authorities within 72 (seventy two!) hours. This recent incident was only notified after 50 (fifty!) hours. The question is whether this incident would have been to be notified at all according to the Melk Protocol. However: There seems to have no radioactive material been liberated. Nobody was put at risk. However some groups had their propaganda. I have read that some blockage of the transit stations between Austria and the Czech Republic occured. I saw one picture on the internet, about 15 to 20 people blocking a road in such a way, that any car could go across. I did not see any declared anti-nuclear greens nor anybody from the multi-national concern Greenpeace or the several Austrian counterparts like Global 2000 and other ones. These are the facts, contrary to the various mass media. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von Maury Siskel Gesendet: Donnerstag, 01. M?rz 2007 20:38 An: Franta, Jaroslav Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: Radioactive leak at Czech plant [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Nuclear plant planning moves ahead Awwright young man, you had better watch these embellishments or the atomic tooth fairy will smite thee with a blinding blue flash!!!! And they might impound thy keyboard! Your behavior is being surveiled .... Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) ===================== Franta, Jaroslav wrote: >I can see the great newsworthiness of this story..... > >"About 2 000 liters of radioactive water leaked.... to a special tank >through a special sewage system.... an open valve caused the leak." > >But I think that even with my amateurish journalistic talents, I could >easily top that: > >"Tens of thousands of liters of radioactive water leaked for days.... from >the reactor to a special steam > -----------------snipped------------- _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From joseroze at netvision.net.il Fri Mar 9 10:59:24 2007 From: joseroze at netvision.net.il (Jose Julio Rozental) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 18:59:24 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Department of Health and Human Services Online Toolkit: Medical Response to Radiation Emergencies References: <45F1680E.2060208@kenyon.edu> Message-ID: <01b601c7626c$4ac4ccf0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Thank you After recent high level dialogue, we have received now a very important site. I would like also to add some IAEA's publications on this subject Jose Julio Rozental joseroze at netvision.net.il Israel GENERIC PROCEDURES FOR MEDICAL RESPONSE DURING A NUCLEAR OR RADIOLOGICAL EMERGENCY, IAEA, VIENNA, 2005 http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/EPR-MEDICAL-2005_web.pdf Medical Preparedness and Response - Educational Material http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/eprmedt/Start.pdf http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/eprmedt/Day_1/Day_1-2.pps Planning the Medical Response to Radiological Accidents Safety Reports Series No. 4 http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub1055_web.pdf Dosimetric and Medical Aspects of the Radiological Accident in Goi?nia in 1997 IAEA TECDOC Series No. 1009 http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/te_1009_prn.pdf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emily Bain" To: Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 3:58 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] Department of Health and Human Services Online Toolkit: Medical Response to Radiation Emergencies > Good morning, > FYI United States Department of Health and Human Services new tool: > radiation emergency medical response tool (please refer to the following > note). Best regards, > Emily Bain > > Date: March 8, 2007 > For Release: Immediately > Contact: HHS Press Office > (202) 690-6343 > > Headline: HHS LAUNCHES NEW ONLINE TOOLKIT FOR MEDICAL RESPONSES TO > RADIATION EMERGENCIES > > HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt today announced the Department of Health and > Human Services (HHS) has developed a new downloadable online diagnostic > and treatment toolkit designed for health care providers, primarily > physicians, who may have to provide medical care during a radiation > incident. > The new information package includes easy-to-follow procedures for > diagnosis and management of radiation contamination and exposure, > guidance for the use of radiation medical countermeasures, and a variety > of other features to facilitate medical responses. All of this is now > available on the Radiation Event Medical Management (REMM) Web site > (http://REMM.NLM.GOV). > "The REMM toolkit is part of our effort to improve public health > emergency preparedness and response," Secretary Leavitt said. "It > reflects the department's commitment to help instill a spirit of > preparedness throughout our nation." > > Guidance on diagnosis and treatment will help health care providers by > describing: > * types of radiation emergencies they may face > * initial medical actions at the incident site and or medical > facility > * key steps in patient care > Critical information is presented in a format that will quickly and > efficiently orient and guide health care providers during a mass > casualty radiation event. In addition to online access, federal, state > and local medical response teams will be able to download REMM > information on laptop computers for quick access when they are deployed > to a radiation incident or for training sessions. Users can also > register for automatic e-mail updates whenever information is changed or > added to the REMM Web site. > > Future plans include formatting the REMM material for use on Personal > Digital Assistant (PDA) devices, additional multimedia graphics, and > more topic areas, such as follow-up patient care of radiation's chronic > effects. A team of subject matter experts from the HHS' Office of the > Assistant > Secretary for Preparedness and Response, the National Institutes of > Health's National Cancer Institute and National Library of Medicine and > the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention collaborated on the > development and design of the REMM tool. > > -- > Emily Bain > Office of Environmental Health and Safety > Kenyon College > 101 Allen House > Gambier, OH 43022-9623 > T 740/ 427-5575 > F 740/ 427-5427 > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 9 13:24:27 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 11:24:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine In-Reply-To: <003201c7619a$8e0c3110$6501a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <664081.80188.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Interesting but not very conclusive. Pain is subjective, so the results are ancedotal. And there was no attempt to rule out a placebo effect. That being said, it the patient or client feels better, than that is a positive response. I expect that the patients or clients will return, and I wish them well. --- Patricia Lewis wrote: > I apologize for duplicate mailings on this paper. > Follow up with author if interested. > > Best, > Patricia Lewis > Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine > http://www.radonmine.com > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Fri Mar 9 13:55:53 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 14:55:53 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine In-Reply-To: <664081.80188.qm@web54311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08BC5C@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Hi John, In the science literature, you'll find that pain research produces results that are, scientifically, neither "subjective" nor "anecdotal." And this paper addresses range of motion. As stated in the paper, larger studies are needed; and perhaps in a larger potential population there could be stricter criteria for subject inclusion for subject comparisons. Regards, Jim Muckerheide >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl >[mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John Jacobus >Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:24 PM >To: Patricia Lewis; Barbra Erickson; RAD-SCI-L >Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott at mmp-mitc-1.state.ma.us; _Bobby?=; >Christoph K?stinger; Ted Rockwell; Edward Calabrese; Ron >Mitchel; =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jodi.Strzelczyk at UCHSC.edu?=; Jerry >Cuttler; Myron Pollycove; Ludwig Feinendegen; >=?ISO-8859-1?Q?radsafe at radlab.nl?=; Peter Deetjen; M Vogel >@MSU; TD Luckey; Robert J. Cihak; Jim Muckerheide >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion >assessment at radonmine > >Interesting but not very conclusive. Pain is >subjective, so the results are ancedotal. And there >was no attempt to rule out a placebo effect. > >That being said, it the patient or client feels >better, than that is a positive response. I expect >that the patients or clients will return, and I wish >them well. > >--- Patricia Lewis wrote: > >> I apologize for duplicate mailings on this paper. >> Follow up with author if interested. >> >> Best, >> Patricia Lewis >> Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine >> http://www.radonmine.com >> > _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing >> list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have >> read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be >> found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe >> and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >> > > > >+++++++++++++++++++ >"We must face the fact that the United States is neither >omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the >world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the >other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong >or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an >American solution to every world problem." >-- John F. Kennedy > >-- John >John Jacobus, MS >Certified Health Physicist >e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >_____________________ >Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate >in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. >http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and >understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other >settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > From lewis at radonmine.com Fri Mar 9 14:21:53 2007 From: lewis at radonmine.com (Patricia Lewis) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 13:21:53 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - References: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08BC5C@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <001101c76288$94897860$6501a8c0@HOME> Thanks Jim, For helping me emphasize that this paper addresses only Range of Motion (I took a moment to reread it). And Barbra and I are taking the investigation one step further to see if there is any blood response (SED, CRP, etc.) that goes along with the mobility improvements. You know I've been talking about a project like this for years. We'll be doing that this summer with the help of a local physician - and as our meager personal funds allow (funding from Pat and Barbra)! pat. Patricia Lewis Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine Boulder MT USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 12:55 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine Hi John, In the science literature, you'll find that pain research produces results that are, scientifically, neither "subjective" nor "anecdotal." And this paper addresses range of motion. As stated in the paper, larger studies are needed; and perhaps in a larger potential population there could be stricter criteria for subject inclusion for subject comparisons. Regards, Jim Muckerheide From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 9 15:12:07 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 13:12:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08BC5C@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <306335.17755.qm@web54301.mail.yahoo.com> Jim, Yes, it should be subjective. Rather than larger studies, physiological parameters should be measured. Are you aware of any radon studies that evaluated such factors as antibodies, lymphocytes? --- "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" wrote: > Hi John, > > In the science literature, you'll find that pain > research produces results that are, scientifically, > neither "subjective" nor "anecdotal." And this > paper addresses range of motion. > > As stated in the paper, larger studies are needed; > and perhaps in a larger potential population there > could be stricter criteria for subject inclusion for > subject comparisons. > > Regards, Jim Muckerheide > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > >[mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of > John Jacobus > >Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:24 PM > >To: Patricia Lewis; Barbra Erickson; RAD-SCI-L > >Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Scott at mmp-mitc-1.state.ma.us; > _Bobby?=; > >Christoph K?stinger; Ted Rockwell; Edward > Calabrese; Ron > >Mitchel; > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jodi.Strzelczyk at UCHSC.edu?=; Jerry > >Cuttler; Myron Pollycove; Ludwig Feinendegen; > >=?ISO-8859-1?Q?radsafe at radlab.nl?=; Peter Deetjen; > M Vogel > >@MSU; TD Luckey; Robert J. Cihak; Jim Muckerheide > >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of > Motion > >assessment at radonmine > > > >Interesting but not very conclusive. Pain is > >subjective, so the results are ancedotal. And > there > >was no attempt to rule out a placebo effect. > > > >That being said, it the patient or client feels > >better, than that is a positive response. I expect > >that the patients or clients will return, and I > wish > >them well. > > > >--- Patricia Lewis wrote: > > > >> I apologize for duplicate mailings on this paper. > > >> Follow up with author if interested. > >> > >> Best, > >> Patricia Lewis > >> Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine > >> http://www.radonmine.com > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe > mailing > >> list > >> > >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to > have > >> read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can > be > >> found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >> > >> For information on how to subscribe or > unsubscribe > >> and other settings visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > >> > > > > > > > >+++++++++++++++++++ > >"We must face the fact that the United States is > neither > >omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 > percent of the > >world's population; that we cannot impose our will > upon the > >other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right > every wrong > >or reverse each adversity; and therefore there > cannot be an > >American solution to every world problem." > >-- John F. Kennedy > > > >-- John > >John Jacobus, MS > >Certified Health Physicist > >e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________ > >_____________________ > >Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > >in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. > >http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 > >_______________________________________________ > >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and > >understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found > at: > >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other > >settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Fri Mar 9 15:20:24 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 13:20:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] =?iso-8859-1?q?Announcement=3A__NRC_ISSUES_ANNUAL_AS?= =?iso-8859-1?q?SESSMENTS_FOR_NATION=92S_NUCLEAR_PLANTS?= Message-ID: <938458.56613.qm@web54305.mail.yahoo.com> >From NRC News release No. 07-030 of March 6, 2007 NRC ISSUES ANNUAL ASSESSMENTS FOR NATION?S NUCLEAR PLANTS The Nuclear Regulatory Commission has issued annual assessment letters to the nation?s 103 operating commercial nuclear power plants. All the plants continue to operate safely. ?NRC?s assessments of nuclear power plant performance are central to the agency?s mission of protecting people and the environment,? said Elmo E. Collins, director of the Division of Inspection and Regional Support in the NRC?s Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation. ?These annual assessments report the results of NRC?s reviews and give the public an overview of how each plant has performed.? Later this spring, the NRC will meet publicly with the operators of every plant in nearby locations to discuss plant performance. A separate announcement will be issued for each plant meeting. In addition to the annual assessment letters, plants also receive an NRC inspection plan for the coming year. Updated information on plant performance is posted to the NRC Web site every quarter. The plants also receive a mid-cycle assessment letter during the year; the next mid-cycle letters will be issued in September. The assessment letters sent to each licensee are available on the NRC Web site at: http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/index.html and through ADAMS, the Agencywide Documents Access and Management System. Help in using ADAMS is available from the NRC Public Document Room by calling (301) 415-4737 or (800) 397-4209. ### News releases are available through a free list serve subscription at the following Web address: http://www.nrc.gov/public-involve/listserver.html . The NRC homepage at www.nrc.gov also offers a SUBSCRIBE link. E-mail notifications are sent to subscribers when news releases are posted to NRC's Web site. +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php From dianegriffiths at comcast.net Fri Mar 9 16:38:41 2007 From: dianegriffiths at comcast.net (Diane Griffiths) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 17:38:41 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine Message-ID: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> I have some nurses that work in Angiography, Cardiac Cath, and Nuclear Medicine cardiology that are convinced their jobs are causing Breast Cancer. Out of 10 nurses that work in these areas, 2 of them recently were diagnosed with breast cancer. I have had multiple meetings with them in the last month, and no matter what I tell them they are still freaked out. I have found some articles that show that the incidence of breast cancer from working in these departments is very low. They don't believe the studies and information I have provided them. Their average exposure for these nurses is approximately 100 mRem per year. (Some of these nurses have been employed since 2002) They asked me to check with various hospitals to see what percentage of females working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine are being diagnosed with breast cancer and how long they have been working around radiation. Can anyone help me with some information from your experiences that may help me calm down these nurses? I don't want them afraid to work in these areas so I would appreciate any information that will help them. They insist that the information I have provided them is not real world information, thus them wanting me to check with other hospitals. Diane From jk5554 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 9 21:00:17 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 19:00:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine In-Reply-To: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> Message-ID: <325037.63260.qm@web32511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In addition to information from other hospitals, it would help their understanding to know about variations in natural background levels scross the USA - to see the variations from the generic 360 mrem/y. Perhaps some list-members who have *data particular to their location* could share their various natural background levels. I apologize, but I don't have access to the correct instrumentation for an accurate reading in my area. Of note, however, is high life expectancy in Colorado - and relatively high natural background levels in that state. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1534241,00.html This helps to put 100 mrem/y into perspective as a rather low amount. I gather that you have provided them with the studies of British http://bjr.birjournals.org/cgi/content/full/74/882/507 and American http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15375227&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16639729 radiologists. The varying results demonstrate varying study methodology and statistical variation. If I took 100 samples of 20 people living in the same city and of the same age, gender, and race distribution, not exposed to any particular variable, and assessed the samples for cancer - some would be below average and some above. I know that's probably not very comforting, but statistical variation is why epidemiology is far from an exact science. I think it's important to understand that 100 mrem/y is within natural background variability here in the U.S. I would probably get that much extra just by moving from New Orleans (very low background) to Denver - and more if I chose Vail or Leadville. The reasons that natural background is higher in, say, Vail Colorado, than, say, Savannah Georgia are: 1 - Rocks and soil. K-40 is a naturally-occurring isotope of potassium, which is a component of feldspars (a common rock in rocky areas). Also, uranium and its decay series are present in trace quantities in granitic and certain other rocks. The amounts are low on the Gulf and South Atlantic coastal plains but a little bit higher in the Appalachian corridor and the Western states. 2 - Cosmic ray dose goes up with elevation. 3. Radon is variable. Radon is quite low on the Gulf Coast and relatively high in Iowa, southern Minnesota, the eastern Dakotas, parts of the Rocky Mountains, and the Reading Prong of Pennsylvania. It's kind of intermediate elsewhere. Ruth Sponsler http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/ --- Diane Griffiths wrote: > > I have some nurses that work in Angiography, Cardiac > Cath, and Nuclear > Medicine cardiology that are convinced their jobs > are causing Breast Cancer. > Out of 10 nurses that work in these areas, 2 of them > recently were diagnosed > with breast cancer. I have had multiple meetings > with them in the last > month, and no matter what I tell them they are still > freaked out. I have > found some articles that show that the incidence of > breast cancer from > working in these departments is very low. They don't > believe the studies and > information I have provided them. Their average > exposure for these nurses is > approximately 100 mRem per year. (Some of these > nurses have been employed > since 2002) > > They asked me to check with various hospitals to see > what percentage of > females working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine are > being diagnosed with > breast cancer and how long they have been working > around radiation. Can > anyone help me with some information from your > experiences that may help me > calm down these nurses? > > I don't want them afraid to work in these areas so I > would appreciate any > information that will help them. They insist that > the information I have > provided them is not real world information, thus > them wanting me to check > with other hospitals. > > Diane > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From dianegriffiths at comcast.net Fri Mar 9 21:49:47 2007 From: dianegriffiths at comcast.net (Diane Griffiths) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 22:49:47 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070309192516.009ea0c0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <00f701c762c7$2beec230$0800a8c0@ws200> Thanks y'all, you are giving me some more ideas to try and more areas to research. I gave them an extensive training packet with their yearly training last October that explained background radiation, natural radiation, even explained that K40 in the body is radioactive. I also gave them yearly background averages, as well as medical procedure averages. Told them about biological effects, and at what exposures they occured (and said it was XX times their exposures). In addition, I told them about time, distance, shielding. (To which they made me show that the Angio suite IS shielded by placing sources in there and demonstrating the geiger counter readings). I had a few articles on breast cancer risk to Nuclear Medicine techs and some of the studies some of you mentioned. (Then they tell me last week that they have never been trained. And argued that fact with me until I showed them the sign in sheet and training packet and then they all of a sudden remembered.) They told me they wanted specific examples of if females in other hospitals working with radiation got breast cancer. (Even though the two female Nuclear Medicine techs have had no problems and have been in the field for 24 years each). At that point I compared their exposures to the Nuc Med techs. They said that they understood what I was telling them, but they were still scared. (Then after the meeting they told the Nuclear tech that my meeting with them did not help at all.) One nurse said it is like if two people got run over by a car on the same street and location. It is not the fact that the street is not safe, but they would be scared to cross at the same location cause they would probably get hurt at that location also. So what they told me they wanted was specific examples from other hospitals that less than 20% got breast cancer from working around radiation and they might feel better about it. They wanted me to call all the hospitals in town and get information on how many of the female techs got breast cancer. So any of you in hospitals have any female techs that got breast cancer, or didn't? Any numbers out there? Diane From dianegriffiths at comcast.net Fri Mar 9 22:00:36 2007 From: dianegriffiths at comcast.net (Diane Griffiths) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 23:00:36 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine Message-ID: <002a01c762c8$a92453e0$0800a8c0@ws200> Thanks y'all, you are giving me some more ideas to try and more areas to research. I gave them an extensive training packet with their yearly training last October that explained background radiation, natural radiation, even explained that K40 in the body is radioactive. I also gave them yearly background averages, as well as medical procedure averages. Told them about biological effects, and at what exposures they occured (and said it was XX times their exposures). In addition, I told them about time, distance, shielding. (To which they made me show that the Angio suite IS shielded by placing sources in there and demonstrating the geiger counter readings). I had a few articles on breast cancer risk to Nuclear Medicine techs and some of the studies some of you mentioned. (Then they tell me last week that they have never been trained. And argued that fact with me until I showed them the sign in sheet and training packet and then they all of a sudden remembered.) They told me they wanted specific examples of if females in other hospitals working with radiation got breast cancer. (Even though the two female Nuclear Medicine techs have had no problems and have been in the field for 24 years each). At that point I compared their exposures to the Nuc Med techs. They said that they understood what I was telling them, but they were still scared. (Then after the meeting they told the Nuclear tech that my meeting with them did not help at all.) One nurse said it is like if two people got run over by a car on the same street and location. It is not the fact that the street is not safe, but they would be scared to cross at the same location cause they would probably get hurt at that location also. So what they told me they wanted was specific examples from other hospitals that less than 20% got breast cancer from working around radiation and they might feel better about it. They wanted me to call all the hospitals in town and get information on how many of the female techs got breast cancer. So any of you in hospitals have any female techs that got breast cancer, or didn't? Any numbers out there? Diane From Rainer.Facius at dlr.de Sat Mar 10 05:05:52 2007 From: Rainer.Facius at dlr.de (Rainer.Facius at dlr.de) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 12:05:52 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine References: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> Message-ID: <1B5EBED4E01074419C07EEF9D3802FDAF73CA3@exbe02.intra.dlr.de> Diane, the most comprehensive analysis of the most extensive data base for "real world information" concerning the association between ionizing radiation and breast cancer has been presented by a team of distinguished expert authors, Preston et al. 2002. Among the eight populations studied, only two were exposed chronically at low dose rates and hence are relevant for radiation protection. The observed breast cancer incidence rate as a function of radiation exposure in the low dose range - i.e. the range that is relevant for occupational radiation protection - is shown in the attached graph which displays the results given in table 4 of Preston et al. 2002. I wonder whether your colleagues will be able to properly evaluate this "real world information", e.g. that it pertains to a population which usually is considered to constitute the most vulnerable fraction. Of course, at higher doses the expected detrimental effect of radiation exposure is observed as reflected by the citation from the original investigators: "It was the contribution of subjects with breast doses > 1.0 Gy that produced a positive association between dose and the subsequent breast cancer risk." I hope that helps, Rainer Dr. Rainer Facius German Aerospace Center Institute of Aerospace Medicine Linder Hoehe 51147 Koeln GERMANY Voice: +49 2203 601 3147 or 3150 FAX: +49 2203 61970 Source: Preston D L, Mattson A, Holmberg E, Shore R, Hildreth N G, Boice Jr. J D. Radiation effects on breast cancer risk: a pooled analysis of eight cohorts. Radiation Research 158(2002)220-235 ________________________________ Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl im Auftrag von Diane Griffiths Gesendet: Fr 09.03.2007 23:38 An: radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk,and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine I have some nurses that work in Angiography, Cardiac Cath, and Nuclear Medicine cardiology that are convinced their jobs are causing Breast Cancer. Out of 10 nurses that work in these areas, 2 of them recently were diagnosed with breast cancer. I have had multiple meetings with them in the last month, and no matter what I tell them they are still freaked out. I have found some articles that show that the incidence of breast cancer from working in these departments is very low. They don't believe the studies and information I have provided them. Their average exposure for these nurses is approximately 100 mRem per year. (Some of these nurses have been employed since 2002) They asked me to check with various hospitals to see what percentage of females working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine are being diagnosed with breast cancer and how long they have been working around radiation. Can anyone help me with some information from your experiences that may help me calm down these nurses? I don't want them afraid to work in these areas so I would appreciate any information that will help them. They insist that the information I have provided them is not real world information, thus them wanting me to check with other hospitals. Diane _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Preston2002Graph9.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 10462 bytes Desc: Preston2002Graph9.pdf URL: From TGaglierd at achd.net Sat Mar 10 20:39:22 2007 From: TGaglierd at achd.net (Gaglierd, Tony) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:39:22 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radiation Events Medical Management Site Message-ID: <35C8F741E1C45847B3CDC0456FC4461E39FFCF@HDEX1.achd.net> Great Site. Much Good information collected in one easy to access and use place. Must have taken a great deal of time and effort. Having been in this game for many years, and having been around when the game was called Civil Defense and being a Radiological Defense Officer, the Nuclear Weapons Section looks like the old Cold War, Civil Defense Radiological Training material with 21's Century Spin on it. Instead of talking about Droping the Bomb Now it's Dirty Bomb, and Terrorist Improvised Nuclear Device. A prompet criticality device is still a promptet criticality device. In stead of Megaton weapons there talking about kiloton devices. Same effects, smaller circules. I used to do this, draw the effect circles on a map figure out the damge and the dead. The only thing the site lackd is a section for Bert the Turtle. Duck and Cover is the Top Down loaded video on the web. The more things change the more they stay the same. From Rainer.Facius at dlr.de Sat Mar 10 20:59:40 2007 From: Rainer.Facius at dlr.de (Rainer.Facius at dlr.de) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 03:59:40 +0100 Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine References: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> <1B5EBED4E01074419C07EEF9D3802FDAF73CA3@exbe02.intra.dlr.de> <45F356A5.7050606@chartertn.net> Message-ID: <1B5EBED4E01074419C07EEF9D3802FDAF73CA7@exbe02.intra.dlr.de> John, of course you are right - in the context of a scientific exchange that would have been mandatory. In the given context I considered that additional detail as potentially bewildering and hence counterproductive. Just in case that this might not be the case, I add the requested information in the attached graph. As far as the exposure levels of the nurses are concerned that additional detail does alter the message by not one bit. HTH and best regards, Rainer ________________________________ Von: John Andrews [mailto:andrewsjp at chartertn.net] Gesendet: So 11.03.2007 02:08 An: Facius, Rainer Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine Rainer, to be useful, that graph need the error bars of the line. John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee Rainer.Facius at dlr.de wrote: > Diane, > > the most comprehensive analysis of the most extensive data base for "real world information" concerning the association between ionizing radiation and breast cancer has been presented by a team of distinguished expert authors, Preston et al. 2002. Among the eight populations studied, only two were exposed chronically at low dose rates and hence are relevant for radiation protection. The observed breast cancer incidence rate as a function of radiation exposure in the low dose range - i.e. the range that is relevant for occupational radiation protection - is shown in the attached graph which displays the results given in table 4 of Preston et al. 2002. I wonder whether your colleagues will be able to properly evaluate this "real world information", e.g. that it pertains to a population which usually is considered to constitute the most vulnerable fraction. Of course, at higher doses the expected detrimental effect of radiation exposure is observed as reflected by the citation from the original investigators: > > "It was the contribution of subjects with breast doses > 1.0 Gy that produced a positive association between dose and the subsequent breast cancer risk." > > I hope that helps, Rainer > > > Dr. Rainer Facius > German Aerospace Center > Institute of Aerospace Medicine > Linder Hoehe > 51147 Koeln > GERMANY > Voice: +49 2203 601 3147 or 3150 > FAX: +49 2203 61970 > > > Source: Preston D L, Mattson A, Holmberg E, Shore R, Hildreth N G, Boice Jr. J D. > Radiation effects on breast cancer risk: a pooled analysis of eight cohorts. > Radiation Research 158(2002)220-235 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Graph9err.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 16554 bytes Desc: Graph9err.pdf URL: From terryj at iit.edu Sun Mar 11 15:53:40 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:53:40 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radiation Events Medical Management Site In-Reply-To: <35C8F741E1C45847B3CDC0456FC4461E39FFCF@HDEX1.achd.net> References: <35C8F741E1C45847B3CDC0456FC4461E39FFCF@HDEX1.achd.net> Message-ID: <78DFF3E8-F16F-443E-B6E7-CEF6BC10D17C@iit.edu> That's ok, My friend Bert is still around. His video is at: http://www.archive.org/details/DuckandC1951 It was named in 2004 as a historically significant film. and of course there is the wiki site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_and_Cover_(film) Jeff On Mar 10, 2007, at 8:39 PM, Gaglierd, Tony wrote: > > The only thing the site lackd is a section for Bert the Turtle. > > Duck and Cover is the Top Down loaded video on the web. > > The more things change the more they stay the same. > From jerrycuttler at rogers.com Fri Mar 9 20:25:45 2007 From: jerrycuttler at rogers.com (Jerry Cuttler) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 21:25:45 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radon arthritis remedy; Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine; Re: " Half-million exposed to high radon in homes " Message-ID: <003801c762bb$68bbe820$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> Jaro, You and others will be interested in the following message and the attachment. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Patricia Lewis To: Barbra Erickson ; RAD-SCI-L Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl ; Edward Calabrese ; Robert J. Cihak ; Jerry Cuttler ; Peter Deetjen ; Philippe Duport ; Ludwig Feinendegen ; Jodi.Strzelczyk at UCHSC.edu ; Christoph K?stinger ; Howard Long ; TD Luckey ; Ron Mitchel ; Jim Muckerheide ; Myron Pollycove ; Ted Rockwell ; Scott, Bobby ; Fritz A. Seiler ; M Vogel @MSU Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:57 AM Subject: IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine Follow up with author if interested. Best, Patricia Lewis Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine http://www.radonmine.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Cuttler" To: "RADSAFE" ; "multiple cdn" Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:26 AM Subject: " Half-million exposed to high radon in homes " > Jaro, > > It seems that Health Canada is using the LNT hypothesis of radiation > carcinogenesis to predict lung cancer risk. Unfortunately, they are using > a > positive slope instead of the observed negative slope (see attached slide > 1 > pCi/L = 37 Bq/m^3). It seems Health Canada got the wrong answer. > > When Vera and I were at the Free Enterprise uranium mine in Montana a few > years ago, we stayed in 1650 pCi/L of radon for at least 30 hours. I > think > this exposure is about one working level month that uranium miners are > allowed each month. > > Jerry > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Erickson, Radon, IJLR Vol3 No4 2006.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 67271 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrycuttler at rogers.com Fri Mar 9 21:58:26 2007 From: jerrycuttler at rogers.com (Jerry Cuttler) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 22:58:26 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine References: <306335.17755.qm@web54301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <014b01c762c8$5b7d0650$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> Here's one that used x-rays. There are many more ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jacobus" To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" ; "Patricia Lewis" ; "Barbra Erickson" ; "RAD-SCI-L" Cc: "Scott, Bobby" ; "Christoph K?stinger" ; "Ted Rockwell" ; "Edward Calabrese" ; "Ron Mitchel" ; "Jerry Cuttler" ; "Myron Pollycove" ; "Ludwig Feinendegen" ; "Peter Deetjen" ; "M Vogel @MSU" ; "TD Luckey" ; "Robert J. Cihak" ; ; Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 4:12 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine > Jim, > Yes, it should be subjective. > > Rather than larger studies, physiological parameters > should be measured. Are you aware of any radon > studies that evaluated such factors as antibodies, > lymphocytes? > > --- "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > wrote: > >> Hi John, >> >> In the science literature, you'll find that pain >> research produces results that are, scientifically, >> neither "subjective" nor "anecdotal." And this >> paper addresses range of motion. >> >> As stated in the paper, larger studies are needed; >> and perhaps in a larger potential population there >> could be stricter criteria for subject inclusion for >> subject comparisons. >> >> Regards, Jim Muckerheide >> >> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Liu_PBNC_DoseResponse.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 94915 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ncohen12 at comcast.net Fri Mar 9 19:48:08 2007 From: ncohen12 at comcast.net (Norm Cohen) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 20:48:08 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] FW: [RegulatoryPost] DHHS Medical Care Guidelines during Radiation Mass Casualty Incident Message-ID: <023101c762b6$27f11770$0b00a8c0@office> fyi Coalition for Peace and Justice; UNPLUG Salem Campaign, 321 Barr Ave, Linwood; NJ08221; 609-601-8583; Cell Phone - 609-335-8176 _____ From: RegulatoryPost at yahoogroups.com [mailto:RegulatoryPost at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of regulatorymavin Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:22 PM To: RegulatoryPost at yahoogroups.com Subject: [RegulatoryPost] DHHS Medical Care Guidelines during Radiation Mass Casualty Incident The Department of Health and Human Services has developed its first comprehensive web site to assist health care professionals, primarily physicians, who may have to provide medical care during a radiation mass casualty incident. http://www.hhs. gov/news/press/2007pres/20070308.html Radiation Event Medical Management (REMM) (http://remm. nlm.gov) provides easy to follow algorithms for diagnosis and management of radiation contamination and exposure, guidance for the use of radiation countermeasures, and a variety of other features to facilitate medical responses. Guidance on diagnosis and treatment will help health care providers by describing: types of radiation emergencies they may face initial medical actions at the incident site and or medical facility specific issues that apply to care in radiation mass casualty events. Critical information is presented in a format that will quickly and efficiently orient and guide health care providers during a potential mass casualty radiation event. Federal, state and local medical response teams will be able to download REMM files to computers so that the documents are available without internet access. Users can also register for automatic e-mail updates whenever key material is changed or added to REMM. Future plans include formatting REMM for use on Personal Digital Assistant (PDA) devices, additional multimedia graphics, and more topic areas such as follow-up patient care. Subject matter experts from the HHS Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response (ASPR), the National Institutes of Health's National Cancer Institute (NCI), the National Library of Medicine (NLM), and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) collaborated on the content for REMM. HHS teamed with NLM's Division of Specialized Information Services to develop the site. __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group SPONSORED LINKS * New jersey dwi * New jersey lawyer * New jersey dwi attorney * New jersey auto insurance * New jersey dwi lawyer 2008 Election For President Who are the contenders? Yahoo! Sports Tournament Pick Em Pick the winners Beat your friends Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball Draft your players. Build your team. . __,_._,___ From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 10 13:28:16 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:28:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Portable, Palm-Size Radiation Detectors Message-ID: <20070310192816.45837.qmail@web81603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/18275/ Wednesday, March 07, 2007 Portable, Palm-Size Radiation Detectors A new device, with sensors the size of human cells, can measure, record, and assess the risk of radiation emissions in real time. By Brittany Sauser Researchers at the National Space Biomedical Research Institute (NSBRI) and the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA) have developed a novel radiation detector to be used during space missions, particularly those to the Moon and Mars, where energy levels are dangerous and approximate doses are estimated. The device, called a microdosimeter, is small and low-powered, and it can measure atmospheric radiation levels in real time. "We are really taking existing technology and pushing it to new limits so that we can apply it where it has never really been applied before," says Vince Pisacane, a researcher on the NSBRI Technology Development Team, a professor of aerospace engineering at the USNA, and the principal investigator on this project. By using a silicon device of his team's own making as a basic sensor, Pisacane hopes to achieve the type of accuracy needed to make estimates of the radiation exposure of humans in space. "It is really critical [to human health that] it be as precise as possible," he says. Since the Apollo missions, NASA has flown a variety of radiation detectors on every mission; most of these detectors have been based on one piece of hardware: a dosimeter. This device, still the most accurate instrument used by people regularly exposed to radiation in their work, measures the total accumulated amount of radiation exposure and can take the form of a badge, a pen-size tube, or a digital readout. But the device, while very durable and portable, provides measurements of radiation exposure only after the fact, so the doses of radiation that astronauts are receiving while in space aren't known until they return to Earth. To the degree that space exploration involves manned missions, the need for better radiation detection is acute. In just a day or two on the lunar surface, astronauts can receive up to 600 times the amount of radiation a person on Earth receives in a year, explains Ann Kennedy, Richard Chamberlain Professor of Research Oncology and a professor in the Department of Radiation Oncology, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. "Of most concern is a solar-flare or solar-particle event that can occur without warning from the sun emitting particles at high volume, leading to high doses for astronauts," she explains. The effects of exposure to extreme radiation can be severe: vomiting, erythema (skin reddening), cancer, leukemia, and even death. To build a tool that can help astronauts avoid such effects, Pisacane's team used the central idea of a dosimeter--that is, measuring the total amount of radiation exposure--but it's measuring not just the cumulative amount of radiation that the body receives: it's also measuring the cumulative amount that each cell in the body receives. By studying radiation on a microscopic scale, the researchers hope to better understand the cellular effects of radiation. The microdosimeter, which is about the size of a package of cigarettes, contains an array of cells made out of silicon, each one typically the size of a red blood cell and arranged on an electronic board like the squares on a checkerboard. Each cell continuously records the amount of small energy particles being deposited. Some particles will deposit more energy and different types than others. From looking at this data, researchers can create an energy spectrum that will allow them to gauge the range of energies and the values that could be deposited within the human body. Furthermore, the system is what Pisacane calls "active" and can take real-time measurements of radiation levels, alerting astronauts immediately if they are at risk. Spacesuits and spacecraft equipped with the microdosimeter sensors could help enable astronauts to take protective action at the onset of enhanced radiation. But before the device is ready for manned missions, it will be tested on numerous satellites over the course of about five years. Pisacane hopes that with each trip, the device--which is powered by AA batteries and already uses only one watt of power when continuously collecting data--will become even smaller, using less power with increased reliability. The microdosimeter will make its first trip to space on March 8, when it will go up on STP-1, the launch vehicle, as an experiment on the MidSTAR satellite built by the USNA. The satellite will contain three microdosimeter sensors, one outside and two inside, one of which will be coated with polyethylene, a substance whose permeability is similar to that of human tissue, and thus can simulate the effects of radiation on the human body. All three sensors will be connected to an electronic output module that will collect and store data for transmission to the ground. The central challenge in creating one of these devices is to make it accurate. "There are a lot of elements that go into making it work," says Pisacane, "and all this has to be designed, parts have to be manufactured, we have to identify electrical components and get them on the board--some of them are so small you can hardly see them." Indeed, the things you have to do in order to develop very small, low-mass, and low-power-consumption devices for space flight are exceptionally tricky, explains Cary Zeitlin, a staff scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and former principal investigator of the Martian Radiation Environment Experiment (MARIE). The MARIE project, which was funded by NASA, built a particle telescope to measure radiation levels on Mars and was sent aboard the Odyssey for testing in 2001. Although the technology suffered from hardware difficulties after a large solar event, it was able to gather dosage information and was a beginning step in detection efforts on Mars. "Pisacane's group is doing a variation on the standard type of dosimeter, and it's a new way of measuring radiation doses that I think is a novel application," says Zeitlin. While extremely important to manned space missions, the microdosimeter is meant to have Earth-based applications as well. It can help people who work with nuclear power, with nuclear compounds, in medical and industrial applications, and in those areas in which it is important to know the levels of radiation, says Jay Buckey, team lead for the NSBRI Technology Development Team and professor of medicine at Dartmouth Medical School. "This technology is an excellent and very worthwhile way to track radiation exposure and an improvement of what we have now," he says. 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Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. From rhelbig at california.com Fri Mar 9 22:56:47 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 20:56:47 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Herbert Reed - NY National Guard on Anti-DU tour in New Mexico Message-ID: <006901c762d0$8f59dfe0$33425142@roger1> Radsafers in New Mexico, you might like to confront Mr Reed. He seems to profiting handsomely off of his alleged DU exposure, trip to Japan, trip to Costa Rica, trip to New Mexico and wherever else. Someone might like to ask him why it is that the only person who determine that he had DU is Durakovic with the help of Dr Gerdes in Germany. Someone might also like to ask "how exactly did you get exposed to DU"? Roger Helbig From chemitech at chemitech.com Mon Mar 12 04:12:41 2007 From: chemitech at chemitech.com (Marco Caceci) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:12:41 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Exempt neutron sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <014801c76486$980491a0$4001a8c0@acer> Thanks to all who commented on my previous post, expecially Franz who pointed to the relevant EU regulations. A working link is http://ec.europa.eu/energy/nuclear/radioprotection/doc/legislation/9629_ en.pdf I understand that indeed one can 'easily' move, for example, 10.000 bequerels of Cf252 in this continent, this quantity being exempt. That much Cf would shoot some 300 neutrons per second, which would be enough for my purposes and probably further extend my lifespan (being myself living proof that hormesis works). I would imagine no other <10^4 Bq alpha-Be source would produce neutrons with >3% efficiency, maybe somebody can correct me there. Next obvious question: anybody in Europe or elsewhere (excepting The Source, thank you, who doesn't understand my English) capable or willing to provide exempt Cf sources? Maybe I should call in my karma chips on this: in my academic past I used to liberally gave away free Am and Cm sources I used to make myself by the time-tested "dip a needle and burn it on a flame" method, in particular to poor high school teachers who could so do experiments that probably would now land them on the front page on the NY Times. So, anybody in this or any vicinity can loan me a free exempt Cf sample for evaluation purposes? Thank you all again and have a great week Marco Marco Caceci LQC sl The Hague The Netherlands From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 07:17:32 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 05:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] NYT Op-Ed: Where Those Reactors and Centrifuges Came From Message-ID: <803248.70751.qm@web54303.mail.yahoo.com> I thought this is an interesting piece, and thought I would pass it along. It is at http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/10/opinion/10bernstein.html?_r=1&th=&emc=th&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin ------------ March 10, 2007 Op-Ed Contributor Where Those Reactors and Centrifuges Came From By JEREMY BERNSTEIN Aspen, Colo. THE six-party agreement signed with North Korea last month should certainly be applauded as a necessary first step in improving relations with the United States. While a good deal of the North Korean program is shrouded in mystery ? just this week the United States again urged the North Koreans to disclose any uranium-enrichment activities ? there are some things we do know, including the nature and status of the country?s reactors. North Korea?s one functioning reactor, at Yongbyon, uses natural uranium for fuel and graphite as its moderator (the substance that slows the neutrons and enhances the fission reaction). These are the same ingredients used in the first reactor ever designed, which was tested by Enrico Fermi at the University of Chicago in 1942. The best estimate is that Yongbyon has produced about 100 pounds of plutonium since it went into full operation in 1990. This is enough for six to eight nuclear bombs, depending on their design. (The North Koreans might have used about six kilograms in their Oct. 9 test.) The construction of the larger reactors North Korea was building was apparently already suspended, for various technical reasons, before the agreement. The North Koreans have been fairly transparent about their reactor program but almost totally opaque about their program to make natural uranium suitable for nuclear weapons by using centrifuges. We know that there is such a program, but we do not know where it is or how much, if any, uranium it has enriched. Centrifuges are much easier to hide than reactors. The provenance of the North Korean centrifuge program is a useful lesson in nuclear proliferation. One can trace it back to the spring of 1945, when the Russians were overrunning Germany. Along with the army came a cadre of atomic and nuclear physicists who were looking for both German physicists and metallic uranium. The latter had been made in large quantities ? tons ? by the Auer company, a subsidiary of the Degussa chemical company, in part by using slave labor from the concentration camps. The Soviets were able to take home about 300 tons of processed uranium. Thanks to espionage, the Soviets knew where to look and whom to look for. (The United States had a similar program, called Alsos, that competed for many of the same people.) The Soviets collected a talented inventor of electronic devices named Manfred von Ardenne. He had made a great deal of money and had a large estate outside Berlin. On it he had a laboratory with a nuclear program financed by the German Post Office. In May 1945 the Soviets shipped Dr. von Ardenne east with some of his colleagues and equipment from his laboratory. By June he had set up a laboratory, Institute A, in Sukhumi on the Black Sea in Georgia. Nearby, another laboratory, Institute G, had been set up by Gustav Hertz, a German physicist of Jewish ancestry who had shared the 1925 Nobel Prize in Physics. Dr. Hertz had been working out of sight at the Siemens company during the Nazi period. The Sukhumi scientists were ordered to find methods of separating uranium isotopes. Dr. Hertz chose to study gaseous diffusion. Uranium hexafluoride gas is forced through tiny pores in a membrane to separate out the lighter isotope, uranium 235, which is needed for weapons. Dr. von Ardenne tried separation by using electromagnetic fields, a technique also used in the American uranium separation program at Oak Ridge, Tenn. A third group, headed by a physicist named Max Steenbeck, investigated the centrifuge. Dr. Steenbeck, who had been arrested by the Soviets and put in a concentration camp in Poland, had previously been in charge of research for the division of Siemens that dealt with aircraft. While in captivity he wrote a letter to the Soviet secret police, the N.K.V.D., explaining his scientific background; he also ended up in Sukhumi. Dr. Steenbeck began with a small group and some antiquated Soviet centrifuges that certainly could not have been used to separate uranium isotopes. In the summer of 1946 they were joined by an Austrian physicist named Gernot Zippe. Dr. Zippe had been in the Luftwaffe during the war and, after having been taken prisoner in the summer of 1946, he went from a prison camp to the relative luxury of Sukhumi, thanks to the initiative of Dr. von Ardenne. Neither Dr. Zippe nor Dr. Steenbeck had ever worked on centrifuges, but within two years they created the best centrifuge in the world ? although at the time they did not know it. (To give some idea of its capacity, a typical laboratory centrifuge makes a few thousand rotations a minute. The Zippe centrifuge ? this is the common name, although Dr. Zippe himself refers to it as the ?Russian centrifuge? ? can do 90,000 rotations a minute.) In 1956, Dr. Zippe was allowed to return to Germany. Although he was not permitted to take any documents with him, he was able to reconstruct his work, and began consulting for various companies interested in centrifuges, including Degussa. The private German companies, including the part of Degussa that was doing centrifuges, became nationalized in 1964. But in 1970 these national companies became part of an international consortium called Urenco. The Dutch had a branch in Almelo and, in 1972, a Pakistani metallurgist named Abdul Qadeer Khan joined it. Fluent in both Dutch and German, he was given the job of translating the German centrifuge plans into Dutch. He became familiar with both the German and Dutch versions of the Zippe centrifuge. In 1974, India successfully tested a nuclear device, and Pakistan?s president, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, put out a call to all the scientists in the Pakistani diaspora to return home and help make a bomb. Dr. Khan was one who answered and he brought with him the stolen plans for the Zippe centrifuge. This is not the place to go into the details of Dr. Khan?s activities, which in the end involved a variety of countries from Libya to China ? to say nothing of Iran, whose centrifuges also have a Pakistani origin. By the 1990s Dr. Khan was exchanging weapons information with the North Koreans for similar information about their long-range rockets. We know he gave them plans for the centrifuge and probably sample centrifuges. We do not know whether he gave them plans for a nuclear weapon, as he had done for the Libyans. We also do not know to what extent the government of Pakistan was complicit in this. The army certainly was, and military aircraft were used to transport material. Pakistan has denied any involvement; Dr. Khan is under house arrest and no foreign intelligence representatives have been allowed to interview him. The North Koreans have reluctantly admitted that they have a centrifuge program but have not let any foreign observers see it. Such a program, if limited, would have been allowed by the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. But the North Koreans would have had to declare it to the International Atomic Energy Agency, which then would have had the right to inspect it. This they did not do. Perhaps they enjoy the ambiguity. My own guess is that if they have an active program it is relatively small. And while so far the agreement we have made with them does not say anything about this program, clearly we must eventually insist on knowing its extent. The route that led from Soviet prisoners of war to the centrifuges in North Korea is so implausible that if one put it in a novel, no one would believe it. Jeremy Bernstein is the author of the forthcoming ?Plutonium: A History of the World?s Most Dangerous Element.? +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 07:37:00 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 05:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine In-Reply-To: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> Message-ID: <760292.49974.qm@web54313.mail.yahoo.com> I think soliciting information for other medical facilities is not a good idea. I would suggest citing professional groups that have reviewed this information. I would suggest-- http://hps.org/documents/risk_ps010-1.pdf Another source is the paper -- Shinji Yoshinaga, PhD, Kiyohiko Mabuchi, MD, DrPH, Alice J. Sigurdson, PhD, Michele Morin Doody, MS and Elaine Ron, PhD "Cancer Risks among Radiologists and Radiologic Technologists: Review of Epidemiologic Studies," Radiology 2004;233:313-321 Abstract: Radiologists and radiologic technologists were among the earliest occupational groups exposed to ionizing radiation and represent a large segment of the working population exposed to radiation from human-made sources. The authors reviewed epidemiologic data on cancer risks from eight cohorts of over 270 000 radiologists and technologists in various countries. The most consistent finding was increased mortality due to leukemia among early workers employed before 1950, when radiation exposures were high. This, together with an increasing risk of leukemia with increasing duration of work in the early years, provided evidence of an excess risk of leukemia associated with occupational radiation exposure in that period. While findings on several types of solid cancers were less consistent, several studies provided evidence of a radiation effect for breast cancer and skin cancer. To date, there is no clear evidence of an increased cancer risk in medical radiation workers exposed to current levels of radiation doses. However, given a relatively short period of time for which the most recent workers have been followed up and in view of the increasing uses of radiation in modern medical practices, it is important to continue to monitor the health status of medical radiation workers. (I have been doing this for many years, and will probably continue to in the future.) --- Diane Griffiths wrote: > > I have some nurses that work in Angiography, Cardiac > Cath, and Nuclear > Medicine cardiology that are convinced their jobs > are causing Breast Cancer. > Out of 10 nurses that work in these areas, 2 of them > recently were diagnosed > with breast cancer. I have had multiple meetings > with them in the last > month, and no matter what I tell them they are still > freaked out. I have > found some articles that show that the incidence of > breast cancer from > working in these departments is very low. They don't > believe the studies and > information I have provided them. Their average > exposure for these nurses is > approximately 100 mRem per year. (Some of these > nurses have been employed > since 2002) > > They asked me to check with various hospitals to see > what percentage of > females working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine are > being diagnosed with > breast cancer and how long they have been working > around radiation. Can > anyone help me with some information from your > experiences that may help me > calm down these nurses? > > I don't want them afraid to work in these areas so I > would appreciate any > information that will help them. They insist that > the information I have > provided them is not real world information, thus > them wanting me to check > with other hospitals. > > Diane > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 From bcradsafers at hotmail.com Mon Mar 12 08:05:20 2007 From: bcradsafers at hotmail.com (Bjorn Cedervall) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:05:20 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Statistics - evaluation of digital images In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear RadSafers, I recently ran into a question related to comparison of different X-ray techniques. Various reference images where given a zero (0) value and then different digital image processing techniques where used whereafter some radiologists were asked about the quality (clinical value for diagnostic purposees) of the new (processed) images - ranking the pictures by giving them a subjective value on a five-stepscale: -2, -1, 0, +1, +2. The outcome of a "typical" test for five radiologists could then look like the following: Radiologist Score 1 +1 2 0 (image of about the same clinical value as the reference) 3 +2 (much better image than the reference) 4 -1 (image of less quality than the reference) 5 +1 (Average: 3/5 = +0,60) The reference is always zero so these five scores could be seen as paired comparisons: 0, +1 0, 0 0, +2 0, -1 0, +1 Reasonably a distribution like this has no tails as there is a lower and an upper bound. Now, I want to test if various paired rankings of this kind are statistically different. My question is what a distribution of this kind is called (contrasting gaussian and other types of distributions) and what the appropriate statistical test would be (some kind of paired t-test??). I apologize for this question being somewhat outside the core of radiology but it is related to efforts to lower diagnostic doses. Any help will be greatly appreciated, Bjorn Cedervall bcradsafers at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few simple tips. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 08:28:40 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine In-Reply-To: <00f701c762c7$2beec230$0800a8c0@ws200> Message-ID: <305841.91118.qm@web54306.mail.yahoo.com> Diane, You may have to accept that fact that they may not want you accept ANY evidence that you present to them. This appears to be a statistical cluster when rare event, two technologist out of xx get breast cancer. Statistically, it can happen, like winning the lottery. But, now many times this CAN happen is rare. You might want to ask them how many of their friends or relative who have not worked around radiation have breast cancer. They are probably both in their late 40s and early 50s, so the natural incidences of breast cancer should be evident. My wife made that comment that several of her friends had breast cancer. After looking at the issue from the natural incidence rate, it be came clear that this was to be expected. I wish you luck on this. You are dealing with emotions that these technologists feel. --- Diane Griffiths wrote: > Thanks y'all, you are giving me some more ideas to > try and more areas to research. > > I gave them an extensive training packet with their > yearly training last October that explained > background radiation, natural radiation, even > explained that K40 in the body is radioactive. I > also gave them yearly background averages, as well > as medical procedure averages. Told them about > biological effects, and at what exposures they > occured (and said it was XX times their exposures). > In addition, I told them about time, distance, > shielding. (To which they made me show that the > Angio suite IS shielded by placing sources in there > and demonstrating the geiger counter readings). I > had a few articles on breast cancer risk to Nuclear > Medicine techs and some of the studies some of you > mentioned. (Then they tell me last week that they > have never been trained. And argued that fact with > me until I showed them the sign in sheet and > training packet and then they all of a sudden > remembered.) > > They told me they wanted specific examples of if > females in other hospitals working with radiation > got breast cancer. (Even though the two female > Nuclear Medicine techs have had no problems and have > been in the field for 24 years each). At that point > I compared their exposures to the Nuc Med techs. > They said that they understood what I was telling > them, but they were still scared. (Then after the > meeting they told the Nuclear tech that my meeting > with them did not help at all.) > > One nurse said it is like if two people got run over > by a car on the same street and location. It is not > the fact that the street is not safe, but they would > be scared to cross at the same location cause they > would probably get hurt at that location also. > > So what they told me they wanted was specific > examples from other hospitals that less than 20% got > breast cancer from working around radiation and they > might feel better about it. They wanted me to call > all the hospitals in town and get information on how > many of the female techs got breast cancer. > > So any of you in hospitals have any female techs > that got breast cancer, or didn't? Any numbers out > there? > > Diane > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 08:31:55 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine In-Reply-To: <014b01c762c8$5b7d0650$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> Message-ID: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> And what does this have to do with radon? Or radon mines? Or ranges of motion? --- Jerry Cuttler wrote: > Here's one that used x-rays. > There are many more ... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Jacobus" > To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > ; "Patricia Lewis" > ; "Barbra Erickson" > ; "RAD-SCI-L" > > Cc: "Scott, Bobby" ; "Christoph > K?stinger" > ; "Ted Rockwell" > ; > "Edward Calabrese" ; > "Ron Mitchel" > ; "Jerry Cuttler" > ; "Myron > Pollycove" ; "Ludwig > Feinendegen" > ; "Peter Deetjen" > ; "M Vogel > @MSU" ; "TD Luckey" > ; "Robert J. > Cihak" ; > ; > > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 4:12 PM > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of > Motion assessment at > radonmine > > > > Jim, > > Yes, it should be subjective. > > > > Rather than larger studies, physiological > parameters > > should be measured. Are you aware of any radon > > studies that evaluated such factors as antibodies, > > lymphocytes? > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php From Rainer.Facius at dlr.de Mon Mar 12 08:47:47 2007 From: Rainer.Facius at dlr.de (Rainer.Facius at dlr.de) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:47:47 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine In-Reply-To: <305841.91118.qm@web54306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <00f701c762c7$2beec230$0800a8c0@ws200> <305841.91118.qm@web54306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1B5EBED4E01074419C07EEF9D3802FDA0134E02E@exbe02.intra.dlr.de> Very well said, John; also your preceding comment regarding the proper sources to consult. Kind regards, Rainer -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von John Jacobus Gesendet: Montag, 12. M?rz 2007 14:29 An: Diane Griffiths; Steven Dapra; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk,and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine Diane, You may have to accept that fact that they may not want you accept ANY evidence that you present to them. This appears to be a statistical cluster when rare event, two technologist out of xx get breast cancer. Statistically, it can happen, like winning the lottery. But, now many times this CAN happen is rare. You might want to ask them how many of their friends or relative who have not worked around radiation have breast cancer. They are probably both in their late 40s and early 50s, so the natural incidences of breast cancer should be evident. My wife made that comment that several of her friends had breast cancer. After looking at the issue from the natural incidence rate, it be came clear that this was to be expected. I wish you luck on this. You are dealing with emotions that these technologists feel. --- Diane Griffiths wrote: > Thanks y'all, you are giving me some more ideas to try and more areas > to research. > > I gave them an extensive training packet with their yearly training > last October that explained background radiation, natural radiation, > even explained that K40 in the body is radioactive. I also gave them > yearly background averages, as well as medical procedure averages. > Told them about biological effects, and at what exposures they occured > (and said it was XX times their exposures). > In addition, I told them about time, distance, shielding. (To which > they made me show that the Angio suite IS shielded by placing sources > in there and demonstrating the geiger counter readings). I had a few > articles on breast cancer risk to Nuclear Medicine techs and some of > the studies some of you mentioned. (Then they tell me last week that > they have never been trained. And argued that fact with me until I > showed them the sign in sheet and training packet and then they all of > a sudden > remembered.) > > They told me they wanted specific examples of if females in other > hospitals working with radiation got breast cancer. (Even though the > two female Nuclear Medicine techs have had no problems and have been > in the field for 24 years each). At that point I compared their > exposures to the Nuc Med techs. > They said that they understood what I was telling them, but they were > still scared. (Then after the meeting they told the Nuclear tech that > my meeting with them did not help at all.) > > One nurse said it is like if two people got run over by a car on the > same street and location. It is not the fact that the street is not > safe, but they would be scared to cross at the same location cause > they would probably get hurt at that location also. > > So what they told me they wanted was specific examples from other > hospitals that less than 20% got breast cancer from working around > radiation and they might feel better about it. They wanted me to call > all the hospitals in town and get information on how many of the > female techs got breast cancer. > > So any of you in hospitals have any female techs that got breast > cancer, or didn't? Any numbers out there? > > Diane > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Reno_Fabii at doh.state.fl.us Mon Mar 12 09:08:30 2007 From: Reno_Fabii at doh.state.fl.us (Reno_Fabii at doh.state.fl.us) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:08:30 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Williston-Elin Message-ID: <51F5591FCBAC7447BC3BBEF5FEFFBF7B0938C5BF@dohsmailhq07.doh.ad.state.fl.us> We have a Williston-Elin irradiator in need of repair and support. Does anyone know of a US company that will provide service support? Does anyone have a copy of the complete technical manual for the unit? Reno J. Fabii Environmental Specialist II Florida Dept. of Health Bureau of Radiation Control Phone: (407) 297-2096 Ext. 240 Fax: (407) 297-2085 reno_fabii at doh.state.fl.us From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 11:15:17 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise ("Yellow cake") Message-ID: <540143.12297.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-uranium12mar12,1,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an estate sale. By Stephen Hudak Orlando Sentinel March 12, 2007 BELLEVIEW, FLA. ? Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's junk and tchotchkes. His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an estate sale," Cafaro said. "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? I think that's illegal.' " Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic security task force. They focused on a container the size of a soup can. Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or enriched for weapons. In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro said. The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for disposal. Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not pose a serious threat in small quantities. "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially dangerous. +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front From Al.Conklin at DOH.WA.GOV Mon Mar 12 11:44:44 2007 From: Al.Conklin at DOH.WA.GOV (Conklin, Al (DOH)) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:44:44 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <540143.12297.qm@web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my office; "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John Jacobus Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise("Yellow cake") http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-uranium12mar12,1 ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an estate sale. By Stephen Hudak Orlando Sentinel March 12, 2007 BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's junk and tchotchkes. His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an estate sale," Cafaro said. "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? I think that's illegal.' " Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic security task force. They focused on a container the size of a soup can. Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or enriched for weapons. In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro said. The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for disposal. Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not pose a serious threat in small quantities. "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially dangerous. +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From CONTEDU at hsph.harvard.edu Mon Mar 12 13:40:25 2007 From: CONTEDU at hsph.harvard.edu (Harvard Health Professional Training) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:40:25 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radiation Safety Training at Harvard Message-ID: <45F56658.FEF5.004B.0@hsph.harvard.edu> Let the experts at the Harvard School of Public Health ease your worries and answer your radiation protection questions during this upcoming training program. Occupational and Environmental Radiation Protection April 23 - 26, 2007 Harvard School of Public Health Boston, MA For complete details or to register, visit: www.hsph.harvard.edu/ccpe/programs/OERP.shtml Environmental health experts and master teachers, Dr. Dade Moeller and Dr. Jacob Shapiro, help you face new and ongoing radiation protection challenges through this in-depth and lively program. In this course, the basic principles and practices of radiation safety are imparted through a combination of teaching tools, including lectures, laboratory demonstrations and panel discussions. Earn continuing education credits with the following organizations: ABIH Industrial Hygiene (4 CM Points) Harvard School of Public Health (3.2 CEUs) American Academy of Health Physics (credit amount pending) NRRPT registration maintenance program To register or for more information, visit www.hsph.harvard.edu/ccpe, call 617-384-8692, or email contedu at hsph.harvard.edu. Please be sure to mention your Reference Code: OERP07-LIST02 From LNMolino at aol.com Mon Mar 12 14:16:42 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:16:42 EDT Subject: [ RadSafe ] FYI Message-ID: Source: (USA) Federal Register: March 5, 2007 (Volume 72, Number 42)] 29 CFR Part 1910 Announcement of Stakeholder Meetings on Occupational Exposure to Ionizing Radiation AGENCY: Occupational Safety and Health Administration, Labor. --------------------------------------------------------------- SUMMARY: The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) invites interested parties to participate in informal stakeholder meetings on Occupational Exposure to Ionizing Radiation. These meetings are a continuation of OSHA's information collection efforts on ionizing radiation. DATES: Stakeholder meetings: The stakeholder meeting dates are: 1. 8:30 a.m.-4:30 p.m., March 16, 2007, Washington, DC. 2. 8:30 a.m.-4:30 p.m., March 26, 2007, Orlando, FL. Notice of intention to attend a stakeholder meeting: You must submit a notice of intention to attend the Washington, DC, or Orlando, FL, stakeholder meeting by March 9, 2007. ADDRESSES: Stakeholder meetings: The stakeholder meeting locations are: 1. Frances Perkins Building, U.S. Department of Labor, 200 Constitution Avenue, NW., Washington, DC 20210. 2. For the location of the Orlando, FL, stakeholder meeting, contact Liset Navas at (202) 693-1950. Notices of intention to attend a stakeholder meeting: You may submit your notice of intention to attend a stakeholder meeting by any of the following methods: Electronic: OSHA encourages you to submit your notice of intention to attend to navas.liset at dol.gov. Facsimile: You may fax your notice of intention to attend to (202) 693-1678. Regular mail. SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION: Background The use of ionizing radiation has increased significantly in recent years. Today, ionizing radiation is used in a wide variety of workplaces and operations, including security operations, hospitals and medical offices, dental offices, manufacturing worksites, research facilities, forestry and other agricultural worksites, and wastewater treatment plants. In 2005, OSHA initiated information collection efforts to obtain data, information, and comment on the increased workplace use of ionizing radiation and other related issues. These efforts started with the publication of a Request for Information (RFI) on May 3, 2005 (70 FR 22828). OSHA received 51 comments in response to the RFI. To supplement this information, OSHA is inviting interested parties to attend informal stakeholder meetings on the Occupational Exposure to Ionizing Radiation. OSHA will use the data and materials obtained through these information collections efforts to determine, in conjunction with other Federal agencies, whether regulatory action is necessary to protect employees from ionizing radiation exposure. OSHA's existing standard on Ionizing Radiation (29 CFR 1910.1096) was adopted in 1971 pursuant to section 6(a) of the Act (29 U.S.C. 655). The standard has remained largely unchanged since that time. OSHA's Ionizing Radiation standard applies to all workplaces except agricultural operations and those workplaces exempted from OSHA jurisdiction under section 4(b)(1) of the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 (the Act) (29 U.S.C. 653). Section 4(b)(1) states: Nothing in this Act shall apply to working conditions of employees with respect to which other Federal agencies, and State agencies acting under section 274 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended (42 U.S.C. 2021), exercise statutory authority to prescribe or enforce standards or regulations affecting occupational safety and health. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has statutory authority for licensing and regulating nuclear facilities and materials as mandated by the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (as amended)(42 U.S.C. 2011 et seq.), the Energy Reorganization Act of 1974 (as amended), the Nuclear Nonproliferation Act of 1978, and other applicable statutes. Specifically, the NRC has the authority to regulate source, byproduct and certain special nuclear materials (e.g., nuclear reactor fuel). This authority covers radiation hazards in NRC-licensed nuclear facilities produced by radioactive materials and plant conditions that affect the safety of radioactive materials and thus present an increased radiation hazard to workers. In 1988, OSHA and NRC signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) delineating the general areas of responsibility of each agency (CPL 2.86, December 22, 1989). The MOU specifies that at NRC-licensed facilities OSHA has authority to regulate occupational ionizing radiation sources not regulated by NRC (CPL 2.86). Examples of non-NRC regulated radiation sources include X-ray equipment, accelerators, electron microscopes, betatrons, and some naturally occurring radiation sources (CPL 2.86). (See the Ionizing Radiation RFI (70 FR 22828) for additional information on sources of ionizing radiation exposure, workplace uses of ionizing radiation, and health effects of ionizing radiation exposure.) Most recently, the Energy Policy Act of 2005 authorized NRC to regulate material made radioactive by accelerators by adding ``accelerator-produced material'' to the definition of ``byproduct material'' that NRC is authorized to license and regulate. The Energy Policy Act directed NRC to issue licensing and compliance oversight regulations to carry out the legislation. Until NRC issues and begins enforcing those regulations, OSHA retains authority over both accelerators and the materials they produce. See FR for complete notice. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From mcnaught at lanl.gov Mon Mar 12 15:26:12 2007 From: mcnaught at lanl.gov (Michael McNaughton) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:26:12 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine In-Reply-To: <325037.63260.qm@web32511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> <325037.63260.qm@web32511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20070312141907.026ddda0@esh-mail.lanl.gov> For natural background in northern New Mexico, look at http://newnet.lanl.gov/stabyloc.asp and select one of the stations. (I am sorry about the ancient units; they are a result of ancient history.) mike At 09:00 PM 03/09/2007, Ruth Sponsler wrote: > it would help their understanding to know about >variations in natural background levels scross the USA Mike McNaughton Los Alamos National Lab. email: mcnaught at LANL.gov or mcnaughton at LANL.gov phone: 505-667-6130; page: 505-664-7733 From welch at jlab.org Mon Mar 12 16:54:49 2007 From: welch at jlab.org (Keith Welch) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:54:49 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RCT Salary Survey Message-ID: <45F5CC29.6000900@jlab.org> Can anyone point me to some reasonably recent data on HP Tech salaries? I've got the HPS salary survey for 2005, and it contains a category for technician, but it has a relatively small number of responders (the '06 survey doesn't have a category for techs). Thanks much. Keith Welch welch at jlab.org From EMERDF at nv.doe.gov Mon Mar 12 17:41:59 2007 From: EMERDF at nv.doe.gov (Emer, Dudley) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:41:59 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20070312141907.026ddda0@esh-mail.lanl.gov> References: <00b601c7629b$bd8d5e80$0800a8c0@ws200> <325037.63260.qm@web32511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20070312141907.026ddda0@esh-mail.lanl.gov> Message-ID: For natural background around the Nevada Test Site look at http://www.cemp.dri.edu/cemp/ and select one of the stations (no apology for the ancient units, I am ancient) Dudley Emer National Security Technologies Nevada Test Site 702-295-7808 office 702-794-5824 pager 702-521-8577 cell -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Michael McNaughton Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 1:26 PM To: Ruth Sponsler; Diane Griffiths; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine For natural background in northern New Mexico, look at http://newnet.lanl.gov/stabyloc.asp and select one of the stations. (I am sorry about the ancient units; they are a result of ancient history.) mike At 09:00 PM 03/09/2007, Ruth Sponsler wrote: > it would help their understanding to know about >variations in natural background levels scross the USA Mike McNaughton Los Alamos National Lab. email: mcnaught at LANL.gov or mcnaughton at LANL.gov phone: 505-667-6130; page: 505-664-7733 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jaro-10kbq at sympatico.ca Mon Mar 12 17:49:32 2007 From: jaro-10kbq at sympatico.ca (Jaro) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:49:32 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] a radioactive "hot start model" Message-ID: http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/press-release-details.cfm?newsID=729 A Hot Start Might Explain Geysers on Enceladus March 12, 2007 (Source: Jet Propulsion Laboratory) A hot start billions of years ago might have set into motion the forces that power geysers on Saturn's moon Enceladus. "Deep inside Enceladus, our model indicates we've got an organic brew, a heat source and liquid water, all key ingredients for life," said Dr. Dennis Matson, Cassini project scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "And while no one is claiming that we have found life by any means, we probably have evidence for a place that might be hospitable to life." Since NASA's Voyager spacecraft first returned images of the moon's snowy white surface, scientists have suspected Enceladus had to have something unusual happening within that shell. Cameras on NASA's Cassini orbiter seemed to confirm that suspicion in 2005 when they spotted geysers on Enceladus ejecting water vapor and ice crystals from its south polar region. The challenge for researchers has been to figure out how this small ice ball could produce the levels of heat needed to fuel such eruptions. A new model suggests the rapid decay of radioactive elements within Enceladus shortly after it formed may have jump-started the long-term heating of the moon's interior that continues today. The model provides support for another recent, related finding, which indicates that Enceladus' icy plumes contain molecules that require elevated temperatures to form. "Enceladus is a very small body, and it's made almost entirely of ice and rock. The puzzle is how the moon developed a warm core," said Dr. Julie Castillo, the lead scientist developing the new model at JPL. "The only way to achieve such high temperatures at Enceladus is through the very rapid decay of some radioactive species." The hot start model suggests Enceladus began as a mixed-up ball of ice and rock that contained rapidly decaying radioactive isotopes of aluminum and iron. The decomposition of those isotopes -- over a period of about 7 million years -- would produce enormous amounts of heat. [[ ...somehow this is viewed as being more plausible than a 'georeactor' ??]] This would result in the consolidation of rocky material at the core surrounded by a shell of ice. According to the theory, the remaining, more slowly decaying radioactivity in the core could continue to warm and melt the moon's interior for billions of years, along with tidal forces from Saturn's gravitational tug. Scientists have also found the model helpful in explaining how Enceladus might have produced the chemicals in the plume, as measured by Cassini's ion and neutral mass spectrometer. Matson is lead author of a new study of the plume's composition, which appears in the April issue of the journal Icarus. Although the plume is predominantly made up of water vapor, the spectrometer also detected within the plume minor amounts of gaseous nitrogen, methane, carbon dioxide, propane and acetylene. Scientists were particularly surprised by the nitrogen because they don't think it could have been part of Enceladus' original makeup. Instead, Matson's team suggests it is the product of the decomposition of ammonia deep within the moon, where the warm core and surrounding liquid water meet. The thermal decomposition of ammonia would require temperatures as high as 577 degrees Celsius (1070 degrees Fahrenheit), depending on whether catalysts such as clay minerals are present. And while the long-term decay of radioactive species and current tidal forces alone cannot account for such high temperatures, with the help of the hot start model, they can. The scalding conditions are also favorable for the formation of simple hydrocarbon chains, basic building blocks of life, which Cassini's spectrometer detected in small amounts within Enceladus' plume. The team concludes that so far, all the findings and the hot start model indicate that a warm, organic-rich mixture was produced below the surface of Enceladus and might still be present today, making the moon a promising kitchen for the cooking of primordial soup. To gather more information about the chemistry within Enceladus, the team plans to directly measure the gas emanating from the plume during a flyby scheduled for March 2008. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.10/720 - Release Date: 3/12/2007 7:19 PM From wwebber2004 at comcast.net Mon Mar 12 18:56:06 2007 From: wwebber2004 at comcast.net (Bill) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:56:06 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Exempt neutron sources In-Reply-To: <014801c76486$980491a0$4001a8c0@acer> References: <014801c76486$980491a0$4001a8c0@acer> Message-ID: <45F5E896.9090409@comcast.net> Philo T. Farnsworth: Inventor of the modern Television and the tabletop fusion reactor. You can build your own fusion reactor for $1000 in parts. It produces up to 1,000,000 neutrons/sec. Just thought you might like to know about another source of neutrons. These are available on the net. Marco Caceci wrote: > Thanks to all who commented on my previous post, expecially Franz who > pointed to the relevant EU regulations. A working link is > http://ec.europa.eu/energy/nuclear/radioprotection/doc/legislation/9629_ > en.pdf > > I understand that indeed one can 'easily' move, for example, 10.000 > bequerels of Cf252 in this continent, this quantity being exempt. That > much Cf would shoot some 300 neutrons per second, which would be enough > for my purposes and probably further extend my lifespan (being myself > living proof that hormesis works). I would imagine no other <10^4 Bq > alpha-Be source would produce neutrons with >3% efficiency, maybe > somebody can correct me there. > > Next obvious question: anybody in Europe or elsewhere (excepting The > Source, thank you, who doesn't understand my English) capable or willing > to provide exempt Cf sources? > > Maybe I should call in my karma chips on this: in my academic past I > used to liberally gave away free Am and Cm sources I used to make myself > by the time-tested "dip a needle and burn it on a flame" method, in > particular to poor high school teachers who could so do experiments that > probably would now land them on the front page on the NY Times. So, > anybody in this or any vicinity can loan me a free exempt Cf sample > for evaluation purposes? > > Thank you all again and have a great week > > Marco > > Marco Caceci > LQC sl > > The Hague > The Netherlands > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > From cobdw at tds.net Mon Mar 12 18:59:06 2007 From: cobdw at tds.net (cobdw at tds.net) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:59:06 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] U 238 BKG in US Message-ID: <20070312185906.84SWL.58672.root@webfep12> To all, I am in need of some information for a survey plan that I am developing. Can anyone point me in the right direction to determine the average background for U-238 in the southern California area? Specific area would be San Clemente. Additionally, can anyone point me in the right direction to obtain the cpm to microRem/hr ratio for a 3x3 NaI detector for the U-238 prodigy gamma emitters? Thanks in advance, D. Coble From terryj at iit.edu Mon Mar 12 20:55:39 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:55:39 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> Message-ID: Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few years ago. We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I think that she thought we were a bit disjointed. Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so about 24 mg was K-40. We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could observe a peak. The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with those "hot" bananas. Jeff On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) wrote: > It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my > office; > "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about > three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium > dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. > When I > go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear > nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > Behalf Of John Jacobus > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM > To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com > Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive > surprise("Yellow cake") > > > http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- > uranium12mar12,1 > ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section > > Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise > > A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an > estate sale. > > By Stephen Hudak > Orlando Sentinel > > March 12, 2007 > > BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and > pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an > estate's > junk and tchotchkes. > > His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. > > "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an > estate sale," Cafaro said. > "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. > Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? > Uranium? > I think that's illegal.' " > > Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three > dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a > hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office > domestic > security task force. > > They focused on a container the size of a soup can. > Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that > held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral > that, in > larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or > enriched for weapons. > > In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in > part, > on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi > President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, > presumably > to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. > > "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," > Cafaro > said. > > The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 > years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for > disposal. > > Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a > weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics > department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not > pose a serious threat in small quantities. > > "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. > "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." > > Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law > Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the > agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially > dangerous. > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or > omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; > that > we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; > that we > cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore > there > cannot be an American solution to every world problem." > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ____________ > Bored stiff? Loosen up... > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. > http://games.yahoo.com/games/front > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// > radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other > settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Mon Mar 12 21:30:02 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:30:02 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> Message-ID: <97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> Jerry et al K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole body counting, and I used it to insure may counter was working properly. If the peack at 1.46 MeV was not present, the counter was assumed to be not working correctly. John *************** John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Terry" To: "radsafe" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few > years ago. > > We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the > store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I think > that she thought we were a bit disjointed. > > Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so about > 24 mg was K-40. > > We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could > observe a peak. > > The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with > those "hot" bananas. > > Jeff > > > > On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) wrote: > >> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my office; >> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about >> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium >> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I >> go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear >> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >> Behalf Of John Jacobus >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM >> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive >> surprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- uranium12mar12,1 >> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section >> >> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise >> >> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an >> estate sale. >> >> By Stephen Hudak >> Orlando Sentinel >> >> March 12, 2007 >> >> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and >> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's >> junk and tchotchkes. >> >> His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. >> >> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an >> estate sale," Cafaro said. >> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. >> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? >> I think that's illegal.' " >> >> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three >> dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a >> hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic >> security task force. >> >> They focused on a container the size of a soup can. >> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that >> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in >> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or >> enriched for weapons. >> >> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, >> on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi >> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably >> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. >> >> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro >> said. >> >> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 >> years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for >> disposal. >> >> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a >> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics >> department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not >> pose a serious threat in small quantities. >> >> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. >> "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." >> >> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law >> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the >> agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially >> dangerous. >> >> >> +++++++++++++++++++ >> "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or >> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that >> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we >> cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there >> cannot be an American solution to every world problem." >> -- John F. Kennedy >> -- John >> John Jacobus, MS >> Certified Health Physicist >> e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ __ >> ____________ >> Bored stiff? Loosen up... >> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. >> http://games.yahoo.com/games/front >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// >> radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Tue Mar 13 02:38:20 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:38:20 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine References: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> <008a01c76516$e13b1520$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F287@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Jerry and friends, Not only "eventually," it's been done. See, e.g.,: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15133294 Not only is this an experiment identifying biological/physiological responses to radon therapy by our friend Yamaoka (who moved from very successful laboratory work that was being ignored by the drug-surgery committed medical community, to the Misasa Spa Hospital to treat patients), and this is a CLINICAL TRIAL, which ties these responses directly to clinical results in actual patients! If the abstract isn't sufficient, this is an OPEN ACCESS paper. Download it; read it. (I've sent this before.) Now, also click on "Related Articles" on the right. Read these. I've distributed some of these before also. See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands to the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 You can also go in this direction: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16810484 See also the papers of our friend Dr. Falkenbach, the former attending physician at Heilstollen, which you can also see at: http://www.radscihealth.org:9000/rsh/dd3/searchResult2.jsp?keyword4=2.2.2.4+Radon+treatments (If you get a broken link, if it is to a doc at "cnts.wpi.edu," you can replace that with "radscihealth.org.") Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Cuttler [mailto:jerrycuttler at rogers.com] Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:25 PM To: John Jacobus; Muckerheide, Jim (CDA); Patricia Lewis; Barbra Erickson; RAD-SCI-L Cc: Scott, Bobby; Christoph K?stinger; Ted Rockwell; Edward Calabrese; Ron Mitchel; Myron Pollycove; Ludwig Feinendegen; Peter Deetjen; M Vogel @MSU; TD Luckey; Robert J. Cihak; Jodi.Strzelczyk at UCHSC.edu; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine X-rays and radon are both ionizing and they affect the whole organism. X-ray studies are easier to do than radon studies, but similar studies with radon will be done eventually. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jacobus" To: "Jerry Cuttler" ; "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" ; "Patricia Lewis" ; "Barbra Erickson" ; "RAD-SCI-L" Cc: "Scott, Bobby" ; "Christoph K?stinger" ; "Ted Rockwell" ; "Edward Calabrese" ; "Ron Mitchel" ; "Myron Pollycove" ; "Ludwig Feinendegen" ; "Peter Deetjen" ; "M Vogel @MSU" ; "TD Luckey" ; "Robert J. Cihak" ; ; Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine > And what does this have to do with radon? Or radon > mines? Or ranges of motion? > > --- Jerry Cuttler wrote: > >> Here's one that used x-rays. >> There are many more ... >> From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Tue Mar 13 02:45:42 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:45:42 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> <97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Amen John, Not only would you die without potassium, it is fairly well homeostatically controlled. We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, and shielding from external radiation, cells and organisms cease to function. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R Johnson Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM To: Jeff Terry; radsafe Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") Jerry et al K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole body counting, and I used it to insure may counter was working properly. If the peack at 1.46 MeV was not present, the counter was assumed to be not working correctly. John *************** John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Terry" To: "radsafe" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few > years ago. > > We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the > store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I think > that she thought we were a bit disjointed. > > Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so about > 24 mg was K-40. > > We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could > observe a peak. > > The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with > those "hot" bananas. > > Jeff > > > > On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) wrote: > >> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my office; >> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about >> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium >> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I >> go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear >> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >> Behalf Of John Jacobus >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM >> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive >> surprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- uranium12mar12,1 >> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section >> >> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise >> >> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an >> estate sale. >> >> By Stephen Hudak >> Orlando Sentinel >> >> March 12, 2007 >> >> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and >> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's >> junk and tchotchkes. >> >> His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. >> >> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an >> estate sale," Cafaro said. >> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. >> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? >> I think that's illegal.' " >> >> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three >> dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a >> hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic >> security task force. >> >> They focused on a container the size of a soup can. >> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that >> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in >> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or >> enriched for weapons. >> >> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, >> on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi >> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably >> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. >> >> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro >> said. >> >> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 >> years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for >> disposal. >> >> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a >> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics >> department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not >> pose a serious threat in small quantities. >> >> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. >> "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." >> >> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law >> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the >> agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially >> dangerous. >> >> >> +++++++++++++++++++ >> "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or >> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that >> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we >> cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there >> cannot be an American solution to every world problem." >> -- John F. Kennedy >> -- John >> John Jacobus, MS >> Certified Health Physicist >> e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ __ >> ____________ >> Bored stiff? Loosen up... >> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. >> http://games.yahoo.com/games/front >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// >> radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From bcradsafers at hotmail.com Tue Mar 13 04:32:26 2007 From: bcradsafers at hotmail.com (Bjorn Cedervall) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:32:26 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range.../Heilstollen, Arthritis & Rheum. In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F287@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: >See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands to >the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 I was not able to find this volume via my library. The journal has volume 44 and 46 but not 45. Anyone who could explain? Bjorn Cedervall bcradsafers at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18226&moid=7581 From rhelbig at california.com Tue Mar 13 05:54:30 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 02:54:30 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fw: New Mexico DU bill needs vets to testify Message-ID: <022e01c7655d$fcce7060$29425142@roger1> This is how the DU testing legislation has spread from state to state - and eventually, they will convince the world that using it to kill tanks a few years ago was a war crime - this probably explains Herbert Reed's speaking tour to New Mexico Sheree wrote: To: "Ward Reilly LOUISIANA" , "Thinkcivic OKLAHOMA" , "Sue Dayton New Mexico?" , "SteveLeeperGA 1.06new" , "Stephen Lendman" , "Sakura SF Bay" , , "Romi Elnagar" , "Phil OREGON VetDueProc" , "New Peace CALIFORNIA" , "Mele from Hawaii" , "MargaretDUTex. new em" , "Leuren Moret" , "Karl W B Schwarz" , "Karen Parker" , "Joan Walker NY" , "Gretl Munroe MASS Grass" , "Doug R" , "dennis kyne" , "Bill OKLAHOMA Bryant" , "Angela Morano NY" From: "Sheree" Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:23:14 -0400 Subject: [NoMoreDU] Fw: New Mexico DU bill needs vets to testify ----- Original Message ----- From: Maui Peace Action To: Maui Peace Action Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 12:31 PM Subject: New Mexico DU bill needs vets to testify TO: those interested in state-level DU testing bills re: new bill in New Mexico, NM area vets to testify This was sent to a member of Maui Peace Action. The contact name below is a Taos Peace Action member. Please contact her if you can help them connect with veterans. Thanks. Mele Stokesberry A member of Taos Peace Action has written legislation to get all returning vets from Iraq (Gulf War and current one) into a voluntary pilot program for depleted uranium testing. It looks like it has good sponsorship in both house and senate, both major parties represented. We went down and leafletted at the State Capitol building, talked to some legislators, etc. last Weds. If you and Arnie know any Iraq vets (in some kind of connection to the book, I guess) who might be close enough to us geographically to be invited to testify when the bill gets to committee, please contact them with my number or me with theirs--whichever seems more respectful or suitable. Susann McCarthy susann at taosnet.com 505-758-4035 From rhelbig at california.com Tue Mar 13 06:09:18 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:09:18 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fw: [NoMoreDU] FW: Speaking Event at El Museo--Herbert Reed Message-ID: <066d01c76560$134986c0$29425142@roger1> For any of you Radsafers in New Mexico .. Herbert Reed, Staff Sergeant, Army National Guard (ret) and former Corrections Officer for City of New York, now the latest poster boy for the anti-depleted uranium crusade is speaking in Santa Fe, Socorro and Taos this week. Atch is the poster. While Reed may be ill, he is not ill due to exposure to DU and he is just milking the claim, which he and six other National Guardsmen, after being tested to raise circulation for a New York tabloid, have made in Federal District Court in New York. He deserves to have some people in the audience who ask some hard questions, not just the soft balls he will get from an adoring crowd. Herbert Reed, Iraq War veteran tested positive for depleted uranium poisoning, will also appear in Taos, Wed, March 14, 6:30 pm, Kit Carson Boardroom, 118 Cruz Alta Rd., and in Socorro, Fri., March 16, 7 pm, Socorro Public Library. You can read his story at: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14321787. Please forward this news of his important appearances to your friends and mailing lists. Thanks! Marilyn for DUST, 776-8903 Thank you. Roger Helbig DUST claims to be Depleted Uranium Study Team .. study is not something that they really do! *Herbert Reed * wrote: To: Anthony Phillip , "dean.meminger at ny1news.com" , David Liebowitz , dennis kyne , florence gold , florence gold , ellie Ommanie , ellie Ommanie , Katsumi Furitsu , KAZASHI MISS , Kazuko Ito , Kesha Reed From: Herbert Reed Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 00:28:48 -0500 Subject: [NoMoreDU] FW: Speaking Event at El Museo--Herbert Reed Attached is a copy of the flyer. New Mexico and then off to Costa Rica, San Jose. to speak about Depleted Uranium/ health issues/ medical treatment at the VA. Ret SSG Herbert R. Reed United States Army Military Police Investigator ------------------------------ From: marigayl at netzero.net Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 05:10:45 +0000 To: mail at abqPeaceAndJustice.org; Vargasan at taosnet.com; annabryson9 at hotmail.com; painter at unm.edu; berylls at taosnet.com; bwhaley at newmex.com; telebill at kitcarson.net; billy at newmex.com; citizen at comcast.net; parulapete at yahoo.com; bkorman at newmex.com; SUNKINGNM at yahoo.com; contactus at cardnm.org; cathiesullivan at att.net; ccns at nuclearactive.org; bain at newmex.com; energy at culturalenergy.org; damacio2010 at yahoo.com; domdanc at yahoo.com; tocino at cnsp.com; vailmountainchild at msn.com; link at cybermesa.com; desibrown at comcast.net; dianegledhill at earthlink.net; ellenbro at laplaza.org; peace4colombia at gmail.com; herbert_reed at msn.com; habeaumont at aol.com; jllustig at aol.com; innerlight52 at hotmail.com; jimwilliams at kunm.org; jofo at laplaza.org; mobalsamo at hotmail.com; jrackertaos at yahoo.com; jarends at nuclearactive.org; khf at hncc.org; lapaz at zianet.com; kpquinn at kitcarson.net; lvpeacecenter at desertgate.com Subject: Fw: Speaking Event at El Museo--Herbert Reed Herbert Reed, Iraq War veteran tested positive for depleted uranium poisoning, will also appear in Taos, Wed, March 14, 6:30 pm, Kit Carson Boardroom, 118 Cruz Alta Rd., and in Socorro, Fri., March 16, 7 pm, Socorro Public Library. You can read his story at: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14321787. Please forward this news of his important appearances to your friends and mailing lists. Thanks! Marilyn for DUST, 776-8903 Please note: forwarded message attached Dear all: In a limited transformation of self, we the coalition of groups listed below offer the opportunity to hear and speak with a veteran of 2 wars and 10 year veteran of the NYPD. Please distribute widely among your mailing lists. Dissident Peace TEO p.s. high res images of flyer can be made available for reprinting. From rhelbig at california.com Tue Mar 13 06:17:17 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:17:17 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Mexico DU Bill Message-ID: <067501c76561$2b4c4400$29425142@roger1> Looks pretty innocuous until you realize who is behind it and what their ultimate goal is - now, how can any legislator be against such an innocuous bill that is "for the troops" HOUSE BILL 736 48th legislature - STATE OF NEW MEXICO - first session, 2007 INTRODUCED BY Thomas A. Anderson AN ACT RELATING TO VETERANS' AFFAIRS; PROVIDING FOR ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING RELATED TO DEPLETED URANIUM. BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO: Section 1. DEPLETED URANIUM EXPOSURE--ASSISTANCE TO VETERANS--REPORT TO LEGISLATURE.-- A. As used in this section: (1) "eligible member" means a member of the New Mexico national guard who served in the Persian Gulf war, as defined in 38 USC 101, or in an area designated as a combat zone by the president of the United States during Operation Enduring Freedom or Operation Iraqi Freedom; (2) "depleted uranium" means uranium containing less uranium-235 than the naturally occurring distribution of uranium isotopes; (3) "military physician" includes a physician who is under contract with the United States department of defense to provide physician services to members of the armed forces; and (4) "veteran" means a veteran as defined in Subsection C of Section 9-22-3 NMSA 1978 who served as an eligible member. B. On and after the effective date of this 2007 act, the adjutant general and the secretary of veterans' services shall assist any eligible member who has been assigned a risk level I, II or III for depleted uranium exposure by the eligible member or veteran's branch of service, is referred by a military physician or has reason to believe that the eligible member or veteran was exposed to depleted uranium during such service, in obtaining federal treatment services, including a best practice health screening test for exposure to depleted uranium using a bioassay procedure involving sensitive methods capable of detecting depleted uranium at low levels and the use of equipment with the capacity to discriminate between different radioisotopes in naturally occurring levels of uranium and the characteristic ratio and marker for depleted uranium. No state funds shall be used to pay for such tests or such other federal treatment services. C. On or before November 1, 2007, the adjutant general shall submit a report to the appropriate interim committee of the legislature on the scope and adequacy of training received by members of the New Mexico national guard on detecting whether their service as eligible members is likely to entail, or to have entailed, exposure to depleted uranium. The report shall include an assessment of the feasibility and cost of adding pre-deployment training concerning potential exposure to depleted uranium and other toxic chemical substances and the precautions recommended under combat and noncombat conditions while in a combat zone. From rhelbig at california.com Tue Mar 13 06:20:10 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:20:10 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New Mexico Legislature List of Members Message-ID: <067d01c76561$92531520$29425142@roger1> they reconvene just in time for Herbert Reed's blitz which starts in Santa Fe! http://legis.state.nm.us/lcs/lcsdocs/HouseMailingList.PDF From ksparth at yahoo.co.uk Tue Mar 13 06:18:14 2007 From: ksparth at yahoo.co.uk (parthasarathy k s) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:18:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Disposal of contaminated whiskey Message-ID: <598804.55889.qm@web23111.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Friends, Soon after the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power station took place, the Atomic Energy Regulatory Board initiated a monitoring programme for food especially milk products imported in bulk quantities. Many other items were also tested. A consumer organisation wanted to test choccolates. A few eyebrows were raised when the laboratory asked a for a few kilogramme of the stuff! At least in one country there was a debate on the disposal of contaminated food stuff. They did not realize that the food is active enough as food but innocuous as radioactive material It was rumoured that those in our lab were keen to test a few bottles of choicest whiskey; disposal of it may not have been a serious issue! Funds collected by the lab through food monitoring was a substantial part of the revenue for a few years immediately following the reactor accident! I have used a packet of radium-containing fertilizer as a source in our lab. We made an instrument containing a row of Geiger Mueller counters to demonstrate the presence of radioactivity.The output pulses from the counters were made to trigger a bulb; there was also an audio circruit which made crackling sounds when a box of beach sands( monazite) was brought near the counters. Regards K.S.Parthasarathy Regards K.S.Parthasarathy ----- Original Message ---- From: Jeff Terry To: radsafe Sent: Tuesday, 13 March, 2007 7:25:39 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise("Yellow cake") Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few years ago. We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I think that she thought we were a bit disjointed. Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so about 24 mg was K-40. We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could observe a peak. The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with those "hot" bananas. Jeff ___________________________________________________________ All New Yahoo! Mail ? Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html From m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl Tue Mar 13 07:12:02 2007 From: m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl (Marcel Schouwenburg) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:12:02 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> <97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <45F69512.70306@tudelft.nl> Jim, To be complete and make threads more usefull, please provide at least one or more references in your postings. This is not specifically a remark to only your postings but does apply to all messages being send to RadSafe. Please provide at least references in a way that is e.g. also used in Health Physics magazine, include internet links or, if possible and allowed, attach the article(s) in the form of pdf-files to a message. With kind regards, Marcel Schouwenburg Head / Lecturer Training Centre Delft, Health Physicist, expert level 2 RadSafe Moderator & Listowner National Centre for Radiation Protection (Dutch abbr. NCSV) Delft University of Technology Faculty of Applied Sciences / Reactor Institute Delft Mekelweg 15 NL - 2629 JB DELFT The Netherlands T: +31 (0)15 27 86575 F: +31 (0)15 27 81717 M: +31 (0)6 419 83 145 E: m.schouwenburg at tudelft.nl Muckerheide, Jim (CDA) wrote: >Amen John, > >Not only would you die without potassium, it is fairly well homeostatically controlled. > >We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, and shielding from external radiation, cells and organisms cease to function. > >Regards, Jim > > >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R Johnson >Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM >To: Jeff Terry; radsafe >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > >Jerry et al > >K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole body counting, and I used >it to insure may counter was working properly. If the peack at 1.46 MeV was >not present, the counter was assumed to be not working correctly. > >John >*************** >John R Johnson >CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >Vancouver, B. C. >Canada >(604) 222-9840 >idias at interchange.ubc.ca > > > > From jerrycuttler at rogers.com Mon Mar 12 21:25:33 2007 From: jerrycuttler at rogers.com (Jerry Cuttler) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 22:25:33 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine References: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008a01c76516$e13b1520$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> X-rays and radon are both ionizing and they affect the whole organism. X-ray studies are easier to do than radon studies, but similar studies with radon will be done eventually. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jacobus" To: "Jerry Cuttler" ; "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" ; "Patricia Lewis" ; "Barbra Erickson" ; "RAD-SCI-L" Cc: "Scott, Bobby" ; "Christoph K?stinger" ; "Ted Rockwell" ; "Edward Calabrese" ; "Ron Mitchel" ; "Myron Pollycove" ; "Ludwig Feinendegen" ; "Peter Deetjen" ; "M Vogel @MSU" ; "TD Luckey" ; "Robert J. Cihak" ; ; Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine > And what does this have to do with radon? Or radon > mines? Or ranges of motion? > > --- Jerry Cuttler wrote: > >> Here's one that used x-rays. >> There are many more ... >> From TG68 at gmx.net Mon Mar 12 20:36:04 2007 From: TG68 at gmx.net (Heike) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:36:04 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Statistics-evaluation of digital images Message-ID: <45F60004.2020304@gmx.net> Dear Mr. Cedervall; For a rating method with no interval scaled values (meaning that equally spaced intervals on the scale can not be compared in a meaningful manner or e.g. is an A average twice as good as a C average?) and a small sample size , I would suggest using a distribution free method ( non-parametric test) like the Wilcoxon- Mann Whitney test . This test should be available in any kind of statistical software package like systat , spss or etc. Hope this information was helpful. Regards; Heike Ringeling Stanford Dosimetry, LLC From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Tue Mar 13 09:37:14 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:37:14 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range.../Heilstollen, Arthritis & Rheum. References: Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F289@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Hi Bjorn, In case you can't get it, you can retrieve the full paper from: radscihealth.org/rsh/papers/VanTubergen02ArthRheu-SpaTherRCTforAS.pdf You can also click on her name on the PubMed abstract. She has several related papers, one of which is co-authored with Falkenbach. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Bjorn Cedervall Sent: Tue 3/13/2007 5:32 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range.../Heilstollen,Arthritis & Rheum. >See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands to >the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 I was not able to find this volume via my library. The journal has volume 44 and 46 but not 45. Anyone who could explain? Bjorn Cedervall bcradsafers at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18226&moid=7581 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From lewis at radonmine.com Tue Mar 13 10:03:14 2007 From: lewis at radonmine.com (Patricia Lewis) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:03:14 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] assessment at radonmine References: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> <008a01c76516$e13b1520$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> Message-ID: <003501c76580$bccefed0$6501a8c0@HOME> That x-ray studies "are easier to do" is not the point. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Cuttler" Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine | X-rays and radon are both ionizing and they affect the whole organism. | X-ray studies are easier to do than radon studies, but similar studies with | radon will be done eventually. From lewis at radonmine.com Tue Mar 13 10:29:51 2007 From: lewis at radonmine.com (Patricia Lewis) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:29:51 -0600 Subject: [SPAM] RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine References: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> <008a01c76516$e13b1520$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F287@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <004101c76584$72ac6e60$6501a8c0@HOME> Friends, And, thus, the delimma. No one wants to look past their front doors and comfort zones. Our international friends have been there and have done their work very well. American medicine - mainstream and alternative - will always have difficulty with the radon therapy subject. Our goal is to simply document the findings of the radon experience at the Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine at Boulder Montana USA. It is our responsibility to do so, in so much as we can. The challenge is in that the Free Enterprise is the only one in the entire American continent who has a stake in the conversation - unless you think, like we do, that the success of radon therapy could support the success of future very low dose x-radiation therapy; and the understanding of exposures to other LDR sources. We wouldn't be this far if we hadn't snagged Barbra's efforts some years ago. And as noted by Jim - the work has been done. We just need to bring that information to a broader (American) public. I appreciate everyone's interest in following this subject. pat. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" Jerry and friends, Not only "eventually," it's been done. See, e.g.,: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15133294 Not only is this an experiment identifying biological/physiological responses to radon therapy by our friend Yamaoka (who moved from very successful laboratory work that was being ignored by the drug-surgery committed medical community, to the Misasa Spa Hospital to treat patients), and this is a CLINICAL TRIAL, which ties these responses directly to clinical results in actual patients! If the abstract isn't sufficient, this is an OPEN ACCESS paper. Download it; read it. (I've sent this before.) Now, also click on "Related Articles" on the right. Read these. I've distributed some of these before also. See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands to the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 You can also go in this direction: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16810484 See also the papers of our friend Dr. Falkenbach, the former attending physician at Heilstollen, which you can also see at: http://www.radscihealth.org:9000/rsh/dd3/searchResult2.jsp?keyword4=2.2.2.4+Radon+treatments (If you get a broken link, if it is to a doc at "cnts.wpi.edu," you can replace that with "radscihealth.org.") Regards, Jim From LNMolino at aol.com Tue Mar 13 11:00:20 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:00:20 EDT Subject: [ RadSafe ] Federal Agency Creates Web Site for Treating Victims of Dirty Bombs Message-ID: Federal Agency Creates Web Site for Treating Victims of Dirty Bombs and Other Forms of Radioactive Terrorism By DAN CHILDS ABC News Medical Unit March 12, 2007 - - An explosion rocks a local high school. Minutes later, casualties flood into a hospital emergency room. Only after the first wave of wounded arrive is the hospital informed that the explosion was a result of a dirty bomb -- a weapon designed to scatter radioactive material throughout its blast radius. And one by one, weaknesses in the system take their toll on emergency efforts. Hospital administrators call their local radiation safety officer, but he is on vacation and can't be reached. Health workers search for but cannot locate radiation meters that could help them determine which patients suffered the highest degree of contamination. Confusion builds as medical professionals wonder about the appropriate way to deal with so many patients as radioactive patients lay waiting for appropriate treatment, possibly contaminating other patients and health professionals. At the climax of the disaster, the emergency bays of the hospital close down. The system of medical treatment grinds to a halt. All that remains now is a slim hope that casualties and contamination can somehow be kept to a minimum. Fortunately, the above was just a drill -- one of many conducted in communities across the country since the 9/11 attacks. But the scenario was frighteningly realistic. And the ways in which the situation was mishandled exposed the weak spots in the medical system of one county when it came to a possible radiological disaster. "They flubbed it terribly," says Dr. John Moulder, professor of radiation oncology at the Medical College of Wisconsin in Milwaukee. Moulder, who did not reveal the location of the scenario described above, says the missteps in the response could have happened anywhere else in the country. It is a nightmarish scenario. But federal officials hope a new online tool could help health professionals cope with such an episode more effectively. Preparing for Impending Disaster The words "dirty bomb" have been on the lips of health and law enforcement officials since the terrorist attacks of 2001. But even now, a surefire solution for dealing with such a catastrophe has been elusive. Moulder was part of the team that developed a new resource -- a Web site conceived by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services -- that provides a readily accessible plan of action. "The need for this resource was first discussed within a couple of months of 9/11," Moulder says. "It has taken this long to develop because it is a federal document." The need for such a resource is clear, he says. "Most medical professionals do not know how to deal with radiation injuries," Moulder says. "And since they will probably never see one, they have little incentive to spend days learning the material." Other health experts in the field of radiation treatment say the Web site, which includes detailed guidelines for triage and treatment of patients, is a welcome resource. "I must admit I am very impressed by this Web site," says Dr. Jack Little, professor of radiobiology at the Harvard School of Public Health. "In the best of all possible worlds, one would never need to consult it. However, having it there and widely available on the Internet is, to my mind, a great service." But before the algorithms and guidelines of the site can be applied, health professionals must first be familiar with the site. If they are not, the Web site may not be the first stop for useful information. Web Site May Frighten Public But while the Web site may represent a boon for health workers, for the public, it may give a terrifying peek into the difficult decisions that would have to be made in the event of a radioactive disaster. The site is laced with euphemisms. "Expectant" patients are those "who are seriously injured and in whom survivability is poor &" Recommended treatment: "Provide comfort care." Numerous flowcharts branch downward into frightening conclusions. Treatment of survivors. Management of the deceased. Follow the link of the latter possibility, and receive this guidance: "If an autopsy is necessary, refrigerate the decedent and defer the procedure until a health physicist can assist in planning." For this reason, Moulder says, the site may be best left to health professionals. "Scattered within the site is stuff at the lay consumer level, but most of the resources in there assume some knowledge of medicine," he says. Other health experts agree. "I am not sure it is meant for lay people. It is pretty specialized and detailed," says Dr. Ziad Kazzi, medical toxicologist at the University of Alabama department of emergency medicine in Birmingham. "Radiation is not user-friendly, in general," he adds. Bobby Scott, senior scientist at the Lovelace Respiratory Research Institute in Albuquerque, N.M., says public worries at the idea of measures that would have to be taken after such an event are to be expected. "The very thought of having to prepare for the possibility of a nuclear- or radiological-weapon-associated mass casualty event in the U.S. is likely to frighten many members of the public," he says. But he adds that certain features of the site are not likely to leave lay readers with a feeling of warm reassurance. "The public may also find somewhat disconcerting the disclaimer statement 'Neither the U.S. government nor any agency thereof, nor any of their employees, make any warranty, express or implied, or assumes any legal responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information disclosed,'" Scott says. Are We Prepared? Moulder says the Web site is a step in the right direction, but he believes there is still a long way to go before health workers and the government are fully prepared for the unthinkable. "It's better than anything else we've had before, but I don't think it's good enough yet," he says. "We are not currently equipped to deal with radiation mass casualties. "Let's hope it's always scenarios and never the real thing." To visit the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services' Radiation Event Medical Management site, click here _http://remm.nlm.gov/_ (http://remm.nlm.gov/) Copyright C 2007 ABC News Internet Ventures SOURCE: _http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2939106&page=1_ (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2939106&page=1) Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From bcradsafers at hotmail.com Tue Mar 13 11:01:05 2007 From: bcradsafers at hotmail.com (Bjorn Cedervall) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:01:05 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range.../Heilstollen, Arthritis & Rheum. In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F289@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: Thank you Jim, Obviously the year as well as the volume were wrong in the first link (to PubMed). Bjorn Cedervall bcradsafers at hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- >In case you can't get it, you can retrieve the full paper from: >radscihealth.org/rsh/papers/VanTubergen02ArthRheu-SpaTherRCTforAS.pdf > >You can also click on her name on the PubMed abstract. She has several >related papers, one of which is co-authored with Falkenbach. > >Regards, Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Bjorn Cedervall >Sent: Tue 3/13/2007 5:32 AM >To: radsafe at radlab.nl >Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range.../Heilstollen,Arthritis & >Rheum. > > > >See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands >to > >the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: > >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 > >I was not able to find this volume via my library. The journal has volume >44 >and 46 but not 45. >Anyone who could explain? > >Bjorn Cedervall bcradsafers at hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more?.then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 From hflong at pacbell.net Tue Mar 13 11:53:03 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Societal Cost vs Patient Power for Pain Relief with Radon Spa . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070313165303.83007.qmail@web83514.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> This study of very painful, rigid spine from rheumatic inflammation (AS) does not mention pain and patient choice, as if unimportant where "societal cost" is the main interest! In order for the Dutch subjects to have gone to work more (one objective measure of pain) thay must have felt much better and would have chosen to use some of their own money, as in the portion of the premium kept by Americans with Health Savings Accounts, for the obviously great relief and pleasure of the radon spa. Why do we have to read this between the lines? This article should be circulated among Americans with AS by the Health Mine. Howard Long Bjorn Cedervall wrote: Thank you Jim, Obviously the year as well as the volume were wrong in the first link (to PubMed). Bjorn Cedervall bcradsafers at hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- >In case you can't get it, you can retrieve the full paper from: >radscihealth.org/rsh/papers/VanTubergen02ArthRheu-SpaTherRCTforAS.pdf From jjcohen at prodigy.net Tue Mar 13 13:31:02 2007 From: jjcohen at prodigy.net (jjcohen at prodigy.net) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:31:02 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Floridapawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl><97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <000601c7659d$d5fac200$b3f1e245@domainnotset.invalid> Jim, Several years ago, Don Luckey tried to obtain research funding to determine the effects of raising animals on K-40 free diets (i.e. all potassium consumed bring K-139). As I recall, he did not receive support from DoE or any other agency for the purpose. What's the evidence showing indicating adverse effects from K-40 deficiency? Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" To: "John R Johnson" ; "Jeff Terry" ; "radsafe" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:45 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Floridapawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") Amen John, Not only would you die without potassium, it is fairly well homeostatically controlled. We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, and shielding from external radiation, cells and organisms cease to function. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R Johnson Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM To: Jeff Terry; radsafe Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") Jerry et al K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole body counting, and I used it to insure may counter was working properly. If the peack at 1.46 MeV was not present, the counter was assumed to be not working correctly. John *************** John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Terry" To: "radsafe" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few > years ago. > > We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the > store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I think > that she thought we were a bit disjointed. > > Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so about > 24 mg was K-40. > > We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could > observe a peak. > > The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with > those "hot" bananas. > > Jeff > > > > On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) wrote: > >> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my office; >> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about >> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium >> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I >> go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear >> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >> Behalf Of John Jacobus >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM >> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive >> surprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- uranium12mar12,1 >> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section >> >> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise >> >> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an >> estate sale. >> >> By Stephen Hudak >> Orlando Sentinel >> >> March 12, 2007 >> >> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and >> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's >> junk and tchotchkes. >> >> His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. >> >> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an >> estate sale," Cafaro said. >> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. >> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? >> I think that's illegal.' " >> >> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three >> dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a >> hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic >> security task force. >> >> They focused on a container the size of a soup can. >> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that >> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in >> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or >> enriched for weapons. >> >> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, >> on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi >> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably >> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. >> >> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro >> said. >> >> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 >> years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for >> disposal. >> >> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a >> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics >> department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not >> pose a serious threat in small quantities. >> >> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. >> "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." >> >> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law >> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the >> agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially >> dangerous. >> >> >> +++++++++++++++++++ >> "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or >> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that >> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we >> cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there >> cannot be an American solution to every world problem." >> -- John F. Kennedy >> -- John >> John Jacobus, MS >> Certified Health Physicist >> e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ __ >> ____________ >> Bored stiff? Loosen up... >> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. >> http://games.yahoo.com/games/front >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// >> radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Tue Mar 13 12:46:46 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:46:46 -0400 Subject: [SPAM] RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine References: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> <008a01c76516$e13b1520$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F287@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> <004101c76584$72ac6e60$6501a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F28A@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Good point Pat. Even your Montana mine friends have limited interest. And, in addition to the many closed facilities, the open ones, like Saratoga Springs NY, no longer include the fact that they get radon and radium in the baths and the waters. About 10+ years ago, you could get the radium data on the various springs in the region. Now, the word radium has been expunged from the literature, including the various web sites, not limited to the "official" NY state web sites. You can also see some of the sources at: http://www.radscihealth.org/rsh/docs/Radon/RnTherapiesIndex.htm There are other more recent (than 2002) papers on PubMed. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Lewis [mailto:lewis at radonmine.com] Sent: Tue 3/13/2007 11:29 AM To: Muckerheide, Jim (CDA); Jerry Cuttler; John Jacobus; Barbra Erickson; RAD-SCI-L Cc: Scott, Bobby; Christoph K?stinger; Ted Rockwell; Edward Calabrese; Ron Mitchel; Myron Pollycove; Ludwig Feinendegen; Peter Deetjen; M Vogel @MSU; TD Luckey; Robert J. Cihak; Jodi.Strzelczyk at UCHSC.edu; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine Friends, And, thus, the delimma. No one wants to look past their front doors and comfort zones. Our international friends have been there and have done their work very well. American medicine - mainstream and alternative - will always have difficulty with the radon therapy subject. Our goal is to simply document the findings of the radon experience at the Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine at Boulder Montana USA. It is our responsibility to do so, in so much as we can. The challenge is in that the Free Enterprise is the only one in the entire American continent who has a stake in the conversation - unless you think, like we do, that the success of radon therapy could support the success of future very low dose x-radiation therapy; and the understanding of exposures to other LDR sources. We wouldn't be this far if we hadn't snagged Barbra's efforts some years ago. And as noted by Jim - the work has been done. We just need to bring that information to a broader (American) public. I appreciate everyone's interest in following this subject. pat. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" Jerry and friends, Not only "eventually," it's been done. See, e.g.,: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15133294 Not only is this an experiment identifying biological/physiological responses to radon therapy by our friend Yamaoka (who moved from very successful laboratory work that was being ignored by the drug-surgery committed medical community, to the Misasa Spa Hospital to treat patients), and this is a CLINICAL TRIAL, which ties these responses directly to clinical results in actual patients! If the abstract isn't sufficient, this is an OPEN ACCESS paper. Download it; read it. (I've sent this before.) Now, also click on "Related Articles" on the right. Read these. I've distributed some of these before also. See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands to the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 You can also go in this direction: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16810484 See also the papers of our friend Dr. Falkenbach, the former attending physician at Heilstollen, which you can also see at: http://www.radscihealth.org:9000/rsh/dd3/searchResult2.jsp?keyword4=2.2.2.4+Radon+treatments (If you get a broken link, if it is to a doc at "cnts.wpi.edu," you can replace that with "radscihealth.org.") Regards, Jim From Jerry.Falo at us.army.mil Tue Mar 13 13:00:55 2007 From: Jerry.Falo at us.army.mil (Falo, Gerald A Dr KADIX) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:00:55 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] FW: Wolves of Water - a handbook for fighting in the Science Wars (UNCLASSIFIED) Message-ID: <10ACCA92BC30C84F8D61A1EFE74ADE1702D8E253@AMEDMLNARMC135.amed.ds.army.mil> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE All, Dr. Busby's published his latest book. Jerry -----Original Message----- From: Richard Bramhall [mailto:bramhall at llrc.org] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:09 PM To: info llrc Subject: Wolves of Water - a handbook for fighting in the Science Wars Chris Busby has published Wolves of Water, the sequel to his 1995 book Wings of Death. Wolves of Water tells the story of the last 12 years of our campaign on radioactive pollution and health in a way that is both scientific and highly personal. Indispensable for anyone involved in confronting the lies, the control and the cover-ups that characterise the Science Wars. Www.llrc.org has the detail ? a flyer and how to buy your copy (unbeatable value at ?12, or $20/?20). Online content at www.llrc.org includes an index allowing the heroes to check whether they've been acknowledged, and the guilty to check whether they've been nailed. It also lists 86 ways to conceal the truth. We have sent you this email circular because you are on our database of people who are concerned about low level radiation and health. This message has been sent to our UK list and our global list. If you do not want to receive information from us please reply, putting ?remove from LLRC? in the subject line. Low Level Radiation Campaign www.llrc.org bramhall at llrc.org Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Tue Mar 13 15:04:41 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:04:41 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Floridapawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <000601c7659d$d5fac200$b3f1e245@domainnotset.invalid> References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> <97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> <000601c7659d$d5fac200$b3f1e245@domainnotset.invalid> Message-ID: Jerry I don't know if this is the evidence you want but I found this on the www. AHA Recommendation Potassium is an element (and an electrolyte) that's essential for the body's growth and maintenance. It's necessary to keep a normal water balance between the cells and body fluids. Potassium also plays an essential role in the response of nerves to stimulation and in the contraction of muscles. Cellular enzymes need potassium to work properly. I think they are saying that a body does not work correctly unless potassium is present. John *************** John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" ; "John R Johnson" ; "Jeff Terry" ; "radsafe" Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Floridapawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > Jim, > Several years ago, Don Luckey tried to obtain research funding to > determine the effects of raising animals on K-40 free diets (i.e. all > potassium consumed bring K-139). As I recall, he did not receive support > from DoE or any other agency for the purpose. What's the evidence showing > indicating adverse effects from K-40 deficiency? > Jerry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > To: "John R Johnson" ; "Jeff Terry" > ; "radsafe" > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:45 PM > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: > Floridapawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > > > Amen John, > > Not only would you die without potassium, it is fairly well > homeostatically > controlled. > > We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, and shielding from > external radiation, cells and organisms cease to function. > > Regards, Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R Johnson > Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM > To: Jeff Terry; radsafe > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida > pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > > Jerry et al > > K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole body counting, and I used > it to insure may counter was working properly. If the peack at 1.46 MeV > was > not present, the counter was assumed to be not working correctly. > > John > *************** > John R Johnson > CEO, IDIAS, Inc. > Vancouver, B. C. > Canada > (604) 222-9840 > idias at interchange.ubc.ca > > > . > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Terry" > To: "radsafe" > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's > radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > > >> Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few >> years ago. >> >> We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the >> store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I >> think > >> that she thought we were a bit disjointed. >> >> Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so >> about >> 24 mg was K-40. >> >> We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could >> observe a peak. >> >> The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with >> those "hot" bananas. >> >> Jeff >> >> >> >> On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) wrote: >> >>> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my >>> office; >>> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about >>> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium >>> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I >>> go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear >>> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >>> Behalf Of John Jacobus >>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM >>> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive >>> surprise("Yellow cake") >>> >>> >>> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- >>> uranium12mar12,1 >>> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section >>> >>> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise >>> >>> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an >>> estate sale. >>> >>> By Stephen Hudak >>> Orlando Sentinel >>> >>> March 12, 2007 >>> >>> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and >>> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an >>> estate's >>> junk and tchotchkes. >>> >>> His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. >>> >>> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an >>> estate sale," Cafaro said. >>> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. >>> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? >>> I think that's illegal.' " >>> >>> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three >>> dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a >>> hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office >>> domestic >>> security task force. >>> >>> They focused on a container the size of a soup can. >>> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that >>> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in >>> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or >>> enriched for weapons. >>> >>> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, >>> on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi >>> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, >>> presumably >>> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. >>> >>> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro >>> said. >>> >>> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 >>> years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for >>> disposal. >>> >>> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a >>> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics >>> department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not >>> pose a serious threat in small quantities. >>> >>> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. >>> "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." >>> >>> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law >>> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the >>> agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially >>> dangerous. >>> >>> >>> +++++++++++++++++++ >>> "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or >>> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that >>> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we >>> cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there > >>> cannot be an American solution to every world problem." >>> -- John F. Kennedy >>> -- John >>> John Jacobus, MS >>> Certified Health Physicist >>> e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> __ >>> ____________ >>> Bored stiff? Loosen up... >>> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. >>> http://games.yahoo.com/games/front >>> _______________________________________________ >>> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >>> >>> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >>> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >>> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >>> >>> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >>> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >>> >>> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >>> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// >>> radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >>> >>> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >>> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the > RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the > RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From terryj at iit.edu Tue Mar 13 15:27:20 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:27:20 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> <97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <80F13C62-45BE-4F29-846F-92E178AE5193@iit.edu> Hi Jim, Do you have a reference for the ceasing to function if K-40 is removed? Thanks, Jeff On Mar 13, 2007, at 2:45 AM, Muckerheide, Jim (CDA) wrote: > > We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, and shielding > from external radiation, cells and organisms cease to function. > > Regards, Jim > From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Tue Mar 13 17:05:57 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:05:57 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Correction References: <286560.410.qm@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> <008a01c76516$e13b1520$0402a8c0@0620d78c1a7e4b9> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F287@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F28C@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Friends, I sent a link to a different paper on my site than the one by Van Tubergen I had originally listed as a PubMed link below. The Vol 45(5) of Arthritis Rheum. (and odd-numbered volumes since 43) exists as a companion journal in 2001, titled "Arthritis Care and Research." See: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/85515153/ABSTRACT If you can retrieve this paper as a PDF, I'd appreciate a copy for review. :-) Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: Muckerheide, Jim (CDA) [mailto:Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us] Sent: Tue 3/13/2007 3:38 AM See also this paper, one of another clinical trial, from the Netherlands to the Heilstollen Radon Therapy Hospital at Bad Hofgastein, Austria: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Citation&list_uids=11642642 From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Tue Mar 13 20:31:46 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:31:46 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Ref to "denatured-potassium" studies References: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF@dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> <97A160FC4E9F461C9BC5171026A0BAA9@JohnPC> <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F28D@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Friends, These refs show the biological effects of potassium from which the K-40 has been removed (in an otherwise low-background condition - external radiation can cover for the loss of K-40 radiation). Note that the 1950s-'60s Oak Ridge work wasn't published, as Charlie Willis also stated at a joint ACRS/ACNW meeting in March 1996; and I heard from a senior AEC Biology and Medicine research official and senior Oak Ridge official following a meeting on low level radiation health effects in 1972 (I worked for a recently-retired AEC official and we were addressing developing industry policies following the Appeals Court "Calvert Cliffs decision" effects of normal operation radiation releases and Appendix I and Appendix D rulemakings). See, e.g., Don Luckey?s 1986 paper/abstract at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3097750 See some data from Luckey?s paper at: http://radscihealth.org/RSH/Data_Docs/1-3/2/1321lu86.html See also an Alexander Kuzin paper at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8148982 I have seen the abstract of one Russian paper that did similar work, but did not see an effect. I did not get a response to an inquiry about its significance before Kuzin passed away in '91. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: Muckerheide, Jim (CDA) Sent: Tue 3/13/2007 3:45 AM To: John R Johnson; Jeff Terry; radsafe Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") Amen John, Not only would you die without potassium, it is fairly well homeostatically controlled. We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, and shielding from external radiation, cells and organisms cease to function. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R Johnson Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM To: Jeff Terry; radsafe Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") Jerry et al K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole body counting, and I used it to insure may counter was working properly. If the peack at 1.46 MeV was not present, the counter was assumed to be not working correctly. John *************** John R Johnson CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Terry" To: "radsafe" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class that I taught a few > years ago. > > We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate the potassium. Did the > store clerk every give us a dirty look when we were checking out. I think > that she thought we were a bit disjointed. > > Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 kg of bananas so about > 24 mg was K-40. > > We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low efficiency but could > observe a peak. > > The students really liked that experiment. You need to be careful with > those "hot" bananas. > > Jeff > > > > On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) wrote: > >> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my office; >> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about >> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium >> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I >> go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear >> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >> Behalf Of John Jacobus >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM >> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive >> surprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- uranium12mar12,1 >> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section >> >> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise >> >> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an >> estate sale. >> >> By Stephen Hudak >> Orlando Sentinel >> >> March 12, 2007 >> >> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and >> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's >> junk and tchotchkes. >> >> His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. >> >> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an >> estate sale," Cafaro said. >> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. >> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? >> I think that's illegal.' " >> >> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three >> dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a >> hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic >> security task force. >> >> They focused on a container the size of a soup can. >> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that >> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in >> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or >> enriched for weapons. >> >> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, >> on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi >> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably >> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. >> >> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro >> said. >> >> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 >> years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for >> disposal. >> >> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a >> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics >> department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not >> pose a serious threat in small quantities. >> >> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. >> "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." >> >> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law >> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the >> agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially >> dangerous. >> >> >> +++++++++++++++++++ >> "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or >> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that >> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we >> cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there >> cannot be an American solution to every world problem." >> -- John F. Kennedy >> -- John >> John Jacobus, MS >> Certified Health Physicist >> e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ __ >> ____________ >> Bored stiff? Loosen up... >> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. >> http://games.yahoo.com/games/front >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http:// >> radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From franz.schoenhofer at chello.at Wed Mar 14 04:38:23 2007 From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Franz_Sch=F6nhofer?=) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:38:23 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] WG: Proficiency in nuclear field Meeting Message-ID: <000201c7661c$88b502b0$49197254@pc1> Dear collegues, I forward this message for your information. For more information please visit the website given. Best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: activa-n at nipne.ro [mailto:activa-n at nipne.ro] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. M?rz 2007 08:44 An: christophe.bobin at cea.fr; rainer.dersch at ptb.de; hardy at comp.tamu.edu; arvic.harms at npl.co.uk; trevor.hatt at ametek-online.com; jdh at ns.ph.liv.ac.uk; ed.holden at ametek-online.com; mikael.hult at irmm.jrc.be; p.jachs at metrology.at; napol25 at hotmail.com; lena.johansson at npl.co.uk; pletessier at eichrom.com; bjorn.lind at nrpa.no; jm.losarcos at ciemat.es; amartin at rpii.ie; amcgarry at rpii.ie; cmichotte at bipm.org; danmon at mindspring.com; peter.haycocks at npl.co.uk; stuart.clarkson at med.ge.com; akp at npl.co.uk; johann.plagnard at cea.fr; gratel at bipm.org; wringer at balulinz.gv.at; franz.schoenhofer at chello.at; svec at smu.gov.sk; raf.van-ammel at irmm.jrc.be; vanin at if.usp.br; branko.vodenik at ijs.si Betreff: Proficiency in nuclear field Meeting This message is a Call for Papers (!) adressed to people involved in the Nuclear field and interested in Performance ! "Horia Hulubei" National Institute for Physics and Nuclear Engineering { IFIN - HH} Bucharest - Romania, is organizing the International Workshop on : "Proficiency Testing in applications of the Nuclear Analytical Techniques and Ionizing Radiation {Nuclear PT-2007} in October 2007. For general informations and other details, you are kindly invited to visit the website : http://nuclearpt-2007.nipne.ro Waiting for your participation, please, also, forward this e-mail to any collegues that might be interested in this event. With high consideration, On behalf of the Scientific and Organizing Committees Dr. Mike Woods - President Dr. Em. Cincu - Workshop Director From ncohen12 at comcast.net Wed Mar 14 07:45:35 2007 From: ncohen12 at comcast.net (Norm Cohen) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:45:35 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] FW: [NukeNet] Poison DUst -- D.U. video link Message-ID: <008401c76636$a9667600$0b00a8c0@office> fyi Coalition for Peace and Justice; UNPLUG Salem Campaign, 321 Barr Ave, Linwood; NJ08221; 609-601-8583; Cell Phone - 609-335-8176 _____ From: nukenet-bounces at energyjustice.net [mailto:nukenet-bounces at energyjustice.net] On Behalf Of Daisy Anders Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:35 PM To: BPAC Cc: nukenet at energyjustice.net; studentsnowar at yahoogroups.com Subject: [NukeNet] Poison DUst -- D.U. video link Poison DUst Poison DUst tells the story of young soldiers who thought they came home safely from the war, but didn't. Of a veteran's young daughter whose birth defect is strikingly similar to birth defects suffered by many Iraqi children. Of thousands of young vets who are suffering from the symptoms of uranium poisoning, and the thousands more who are likely to find themselves with these ailments in the years to come. Of a government unwilling to admit there might be a problem here. Filmmaker Sue Harris skillfully weaves the stories of these young veterans with scientific explanations of the nature of "DU" and its dangers, including interviews with former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, New York Daily News reporter Juan Gonzalez, noted physicist Michio Kaku, Dr. Rosalie Bertell, Dr. Helen Caldicott and Major Doug Rokke- the former U.S. Army DU Project head. Every American who cares about our troops should watch this film. Everyone who cares about the innocent civilians who live in the countries where these weapons are used should watch this film. And everyone who cares about the hatred of Americans that may result from the effects of our government's actions in using these weapons, should watch this film. Is there a cover-up? http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17249.htm click on link to see Poison DUst video or to make or view comments -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ATT00719.txt URL: From rorthen at cecinc.com Wed Mar 14 08:26:30 2007 From: rorthen at cecinc.com (Orthen, Rick) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:26:30 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] TXU Corp. First to Commit to New Domestic Nuclear Capacity? Message-ID: <1A8FD75BC4E45D47BF001408F6B55F1231785A@exchange-pitt.cecinc.com> First, there was this story: 03.01.07 TXU Halts Efforts To Obtain Permits for Eight Coal-Fueled Units DALLAS, TX - TXU announced today it has officially suspended efforts to obtain permits for eight coal-fueled power units in Texas. A Motion to Stay was filed yesterday with the State Office of Administrative Hearings (SOAH) for seven coal-fueled power units that are under consideration in contested proceedings before SOAH. The company also has suspended permitting activities related to an eighth permit, which was not a part of the contested proceedings. The stay request is for a period of up to six months upon approval. Upon closing of the merger agreement with Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. (KKR) and Texas Pacific Group (TPG) announced earlier this week, TXU plans to formally withdraw the eight pending air permit applications. ?This is an important step in fulfilling TXU?s commitment, made in connection with the recently announced merger, to immediately seek to suspend the permit application process for the eight units announced last year,? said Mike McCall, chief executive officer, TXU Wholesale. ?Further, upon closing the merger agreement, TXU does not intend to apply or reapply for permits to build additional coal units utilizing current pulverized coal-fuel technology.? Then this one: March 14, 2007 - TOKYO: Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. said Wednesday it has received an order for two nuclear reactors from TXU Corp. of the United States, the first export deal of equipment made by a Japanese company. Mitsubishi Heavy will provide two US-APWRs, its new pressurized water reactor with 1,700 megawatt-hours of generation capacity each, for TXU's nuclear power plant in the suburbs of Dallas, the Japanese manufacturer said in a statement. This marks the first time for a Japanese company to receive an order from abroad for a nuclear power reactor made in Japan, said MHI spokesman Kengo Tatsukawa. Tatsukawa said the company could not disclose the amount of the deal because of "confidentiality rule" with the client. The Nikkei business newspaper said the combined value is estimated at 600 billion yen (US$5.17 billion; ?3.91 billion). TXU, the largest power operator in Texas, formally notified its reactor selection to the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission on Friday, the statement said. The U.S. power operator plans to start commercial operations at the plant with new reactors starting from 2015 to 2020, it said. Tokyo-based Mitsubish Heavy, Japan's largest heavy machinery maker, is scheduled to apply to the NRC its formal application for the reactor's design certification by the end of this year. Mitsubishi estimates that "a few dozen" nuclear plants will be built in the U.S. by around 2030. Richard F. Orthen Senior Project Manager Civil & Environmental Consultants, Inc. Export, PA www.cecinc.com From joel.baumbaugh at navy.mil Wed Mar 14 10:07:50 2007 From: joel.baumbaugh at navy.mil (Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 08:07:50 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Don't forget, its "Pi" day... Message-ID: <7DB6DF83D2CD9140ADA0622B1A05BF2F048EA95A@nawespscez02> RADSAFERS, I know its not Friday afternoon, but... its "Pi" day... I can remember 11 digits w/out looking it up on google, but just in case you wanted to know... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi ...Joel Baumbaugh (joel.baumbaugh at navy.mil) SSC-SD... From hflong at pacbell.net Wed Mar 14 14:08:55 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Societal Cost vs Patient Power for Pain Relief withRadon Spa . In-Reply-To: <000001c765a5$9fbad7e0$49197254@pc1> Message-ID: <20070314190856.78113.qmail@web83510.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Therapeutic radiation exposure (as in the USA Health Mine, Dutch spa, etc), when by choice, does have greater placebo effect than when ordered, I believe. Franz is correct that if the physiotherapy or other confounders were different, scientific study would require equalization. Heat and movement are famously effective, in relieving the pain and immobility of rheumatic joint inflammation, as he describes. While studying radiation hormesis, I am convinced so far of its value that I dream up ideas to utilize sources like used power plant rods aged and diluted in house foundations, to improve the public health, when the evidence becomes indisputable. But even then, I believe in applying ALARA for those who do not choose that treatment, as with any other in a relatively free society. Howard Long Franz Sch?nhofer wrote: Dear Howard, You know, that I am not a fan of your theories..... On the other side you never have been deeply offended, when I sent something that might have been regarded harsh as a reply to your messages. Thank you! Other RADSAFERs do not exercise such a patience, but are very eager to accuse one of being anti-US and reminding that somebody (A.H.) was borne in Austria (no excuse) etc. Now to your mail: I am not at all experienced in this kind of treatment. Since the Boeckstein tunnel, the radium (radon) water cures, and all of the Bad Gastein and Hof Gastein area is well known - obviously worldwide - as a spa and in winter additionally as a famous skiing resort (where obviously sick people will not ski down at the steep slopes....) are a very important part in the economy of this region. I have never been there, but I would like to draw your attention to the fact, that patients going there might be treated by so-called radon baths (using water with enhanced radon concentration), some are even drinking water with enhanced radon and Ra-226 concentrations. I have never been interested in this part of medical science, so I cannot give any exact numbers. What I experienced about ten or fifteen years ago, when I had terrible problems with my knees, was that physico-therapeutical measures not only improved my problems, but simply let them disappear without any radon. Regarding Bad Gastein I know from good friends and even my own mother, that all those therapeutical measures mentioned include "radon therapy" and are applied simultaneously. I do not know, how to distinguish the different effects. I do not know of any "double blind" tests, but probably these have been avoided in order to claim the health effects of "radon therapy". I am open to any arguments proving the contrary. Since my mailings are monitored obviously on request by some US-American hardliners, one of which did not even bother to "accuse" me (!!!) that Adolf Hitler was born in Austria you might face some delay in reaching this message to RADSAFE. With my best regards, Franz Franz Schoenhofer, PhD MinRat i.R. Habicherg. 31/7 A-1160 Wien/Vienna AUSTRIA From blc+ at pitt.edu Thu Mar 15 12:57:12 2007 From: blc+ at pitt.edu (Bernard L. Cohen) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:57:12 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus Message-ID: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> With so much talk and discussion of what is the scientific consensus on global warming, it would be interesting to discuss the scientific consensus on whether nuclear power is much less harmful to human health than burning fossil fuels to generate electricity. I am sure there would be a much stronger scientific consensus on the nuclear power issue, but the media and the public assume the contrary.. How could we document the scientific consensus on nuclear power? We could compile endorsements from scientific societies -- does anyone have such a compilation? We could take a poll of "knowledgeable scientists" -- how best to define that group? Would University employed members of Health Physics Society be credible? Is there some other Society with more credibility whose members could be polled? Would the National Academy of Engineering be appropriate? I would like to poll energy specialists on University faculties -- is there a clean way to define these? If people would make suggestions on these matters, I would be happy to carry out the poll, or be a member of a group that does this or oversees it. Better yet, could we get some media people, or well recognized pollsters, involved? If a good program could be devised, I believe I could find the money to finance it. Since the world has discovered the meaning of "scientific consensus", maybe we could take advantage of it. Your suggestions would be most helpful. -- ?????? From ward.brunkow at wipp.ws Thu Mar 15 13:26:35 2007 From: ward.brunkow at wipp.ws (Brunkow, Ward) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:26:35 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus In-Reply-To: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> References: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> Message-ID: <9DDE7474CFC2D748A8A6AB732311741A017CB831@field.wipp.carlsbad.nm.us> Bernard, You bring up some very good issues. As a consultant with 20 years of Nuclear Power experience working for (11) U.S. Utilities before going to DOE arena, I always knew that nuclear energy was the answer just like our dear former President and Supreme Commander Ike Eisenhower did, but felt like a Vietnam Vet coming home from the war the way people reacted to our industry and the treatment I received at times from the public, especially in the early days. We once had a babysitter in California who refused to keep my son when she found out I worked at San Onofre because she thought he probably had radiation in him. My point is that we are decades behind yet in this country educating people in this field. France as an example is not and it remains a mystery to me why our politicians and leaders won't look at the energy dependence success of a countries like France or Japan...and take a hint. In addition, Hollywood will give Al Gore (ALGOR) an oscar for his phony work on global warming, and in his case of course you have people following someone who has no expertise whatsoever in a highly technical field. He did invent the internet though and we must remember and appreciate that..... Regarding the last part of your question, I have been a member of ANS for 25 years. Belonging to other professional organizations in my career to include military officer organizations, I find ANS to be one of the most professional societies I've had the pleasure of being affiliated with. They have impressive membership rolls also of scientists and engineers. They just need to be larger yet, and have larger funding and would help to promote this agenda. You will notice also that most of their agenda these days is the nuclear power generator industry. In my lifetime in this country I have found most of the time that Americans are much like cattle trying to stay out front of a storm. They won't react until it gets pretty bleak...and in some cases will stand there and get struck by lightning. I am afraid it will probably stay that way for awhile. Meanwhile, our energy dependence could be dramatically impacted and interrupted at any time, any hour. We could wake up most any morning and find our way of life totally upside down. Anything I can do to head this off, I will always help. For now, I will continue to write my politicians and promote clean, safe nuclear energy. W. G. (Ward) Brunkow U.S. DOE WIPP Site - Radiological Engineering Washington TRU Solutions - Carlsbad, NM 88220 ward.brunkow at wipp.ws / MS-452/06, PO Bx 2078 505-234-8018 Off/ 6062 Fx/ 703-929-1280 Cell -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Bernard L. Cohen Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:57 AM To: RadiatSafety; ANS listserv (E-mail) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus With so much talk and discussion of what is the scientific consensus on global warming, it would be interesting to discuss the scientific consensus on whether nuclear power is much less harmful to human health than burning fossil fuels to generate electricity. I am sure there would be a much stronger scientific consensus on the nuclear power issue, but the media and the public assume the contrary.. How could we document the scientific consensus on nuclear power? We could compile endorsements from scientific societies -- does anyone have such a compilation? We could take a poll of "knowledgeable scientists" -- how best to define that group? Would University employed members of Health Physics Society be credible? Is there some other Society with more credibility whose members could be polled? Would the National Academy of Engineering be appropriate? I would like to poll energy specialists on University faculties -- is there a clean way to define these? If people would make suggestions on these matters, I would be happy to carry out the poll, or be a member of a group that does this or oversees it. Better yet, could we get some media people, or well recognized pollsters, involved? If a good program could be devised, I believe I could find the money to finance it. Since the world has discovered the meaning of "scientific consensus", maybe we could take advantage of it. Your suggestions would be most helpful. -- ?????? _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From ograabe at ucdavis.edu Thu Mar 15 15:32:36 2007 From: ograabe at ucdavis.edu (Otto G. Raabe) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:32:36 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus In-Reply-To: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> References: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> Message-ID: <200703151932.l2FJWnKJ013232@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> At 09:57 AM 3/15/2007, Bernard L. Cohen wrote: >How could we document the scientific consensus on nuclear power? We >could compile endorsements from scientific societies -- does anyone >have such a compilation? We could take a poll of "knowledgeable scientists" *********************************************** March 15, 2007 I think the term "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron. If there must be a vote, there must not be definitive scientific information, so there is no basis for being certain. Although I cannot speak for the Health Physics Society, as a Past President I can guess about the Society's position. Unfortunately, the issue of nuclear power is mostly a political rather than a scientific issue. The safety of nuclear power plants and methods for the safe disposal of radioactive waste are well established but the person on the street (or in Congress or at the Sierra Club) will always ask, "But what are we going to do with the waste?" and "What about Chenobyl?". The Society will avoid taking a public position on the development of nuclear power because that might compromise the Society's image as an impartial health and safety organization and result in loss of credibility. On the other hand, the Society does take positions that relate to specific radiation safety issues. Otto ********************************************** Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP Center for Health & the Environment University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 *********************************************** From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Thu Mar 15 16:02:08 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F288@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Message-ID: <51580.55303.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Jim, Beyond cells, is there any proof to your statement regarding K-40? A citation or two would be nice. --- "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" wrote: > Amen John, > > Not only would you die without potassium, it is > fairly well homeostatically controlled. > > We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, > and shielding from external radiation, cells and > organisms cease to function. > > Regards, Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R > Johnson > Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM > To: Jeff Terry; radsafe > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida > pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > > Jerry et al > > K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole > body counting, and I used > it to insure may counter was working properly. If > the peack at 1.46 MeV was > not present, the counter was assumed to be not > working correctly. > > John > *************** > John R Johnson > CEO, IDIAS, Inc. > Vancouver, B. C. > Canada > (604) 222-9840 > idias at interchange.ubc.ca > > > . > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Terry" > To: "radsafe" > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida > pawnshop's > radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > > > > Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class > that I taught a few > > years ago. > > > > We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate > the potassium. Did the > > store clerk every give us a dirty look when we > were checking out. I think > > that she thought we were a bit disjointed. > > > > Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 > kg of bananas so about > > 24 mg was K-40. > > > > We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low > efficiency but could > > observe a peak. > > > > The students really liked that experiment. You > need to be careful with > > those "hot" bananas. > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) > wrote: > > > >> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got > buried around my office; > >> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" > autonite crystals, about > >> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life > threatening" radium > >> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" > salt substitute. When I > >> go out to do training, and take along my props, > I'm a walking nuclear > >> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for > my lunch. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > >> Behalf Of John Jacobus > >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM > >> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida > pawnshop's radioactive > >> surprise("Yellow cake") > >> > >> > >> > http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- > uranium12mar12,1 > >> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section > >> > >> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise > >> > >> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is > discovered among rocks from an > >> estate sale. > >> > >> By Stephen Hudak > >> Orlando Sentinel > >> > >> March 12, 2007 > >> > >> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, > collectibles dealer and > >> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a > buried gem among an estate's > >> junk and tchotchkes. > >> > >> His latest find was so alarming he called > firefighters. > >> > >> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this > box of rocks from an > >> estate sale," Cafaro said. > >> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. > Topaz. > >> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's > that last one? Uranium? > >> I think that's illegal.' " > >> > >> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last > week with about three > >> dozen emergency workers, including > Geiger-counter-waving members of a > >> hazardous materials team and the Marion County > Sheriff's Office domestic > >> security task force. > >> > >> They focused on a container the size of a soup > can. > >> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container > protected a vial that > >> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a > processed mineral that, in > >> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for > nuclear reactors or > >> enriched for weapons. > >> > >> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to > invade Iraq, in part, > >> on a now-discredited intelligence report that > claimed former Iraqi > >> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of > yellowcake, presumably > >> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. > >> > >> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible > this stuff was," Cafaro > >> said. > >> > >> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate > sale in Miami about 10 > >> years ago, was turned over to the Florida > Department of Health for > >> disposal. > >> > >> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far > from being a > >> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, > chairman of the physics > >> department at the University of Central Florida. > She said it did not > >> pose a serious threat in small quantities. > >> > >> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman > said. > >> "It has to be processed to be converted into > something dangerous." > >> > >> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida > Department of Law > >> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake > were reported to the > >> agency "on a regular basis" and were not > considered especially > >> dangerous. > >> > >> > >> +++++++++++++++++++ > >> "We must face the fact that the United States is > neither omnipotent or > >> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the > world's population; that > >> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 > percent of mankind; that we > === message truncated === +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From maurysis at peoplepc.com Thu Mar 15 18:05:53 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 17:05:53 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus In-Reply-To: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> References: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> Message-ID: <45F9D151.20606@peoplepc.com> Bernie, from a long retired scientist, admirer of your work, and admirer of Radsafe, I'm really an outsider to HP. First reaction, however, to your post was, 'what a great idea'! Even did a search on professional organizations thinking that if most would agree to a position statement, that would be a great start. As the thought train chugged down the tracks it progressed along the same lines as Otto and Ward. Regrettably, they have summarized reality very well. It remains true that public policy is a result of politics, not of science. Correctly said: "Demagoguery beats data in the making of public policy". Probably our only hopeful course favoring NP is to maintain public pressure (letters, calls, and votes) on congressional and other governmental bodies. The outcome is not assured; Ward has described these very well. And you know well EPA's continued promotion of the dire dangers of radon! But the crucial need is to sustain hope and the concept of try and try harder. As an Army parachutist in a past life, I learned the true meaning of: the concept: "try"! We will not lose the NP issue until and unless we agree that we have been done in .... Sincerely, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) PS; note that a simple phone call to a congressman's local office (not even a toll call to Wash.DC) probably is more influential than a single dinky vote every two years! ______________ "We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex -- but Congress can." ======================== Bernard L. Cohen wrote: > With so much talk and discussion of what is the scientific > consensus on global warming, it would be interesting to discuss the > scientific consensus on whether nuclear power is much less harmful to > human health than burning fossil fuels to generate electricity. I am > sure there would be a much stronger scientific consensus on the > nuclear power issue, but the media and the public assume the contrary.. > How could we document the scientific consensus on nuclear power? We > could compile endorsements from scientific societies -- does anyone > have such a compilation? We could take a poll of "knowledgeable > scientists" -- how best to define that group? Would University > employed members of Health Physics Society be credible? Is there some > other Society with more credibility whose members could be polled? > Would the National Academy of Engineering be appropriate? I would like > to poll energy specialists on University faculties -- is there a clean > way to define these? > If people would make suggestions on these matters, I would be happy > to carry out the poll, or be a member of a group that does this or > oversees it. Better yet, could we get some media people, or well > recognized pollsters, involved? If a good program could be devised, I > believe I could find the money to finance it. > Since the world has discovered the meaning of "scientific > consensus", maybe we could take advantage of it. Your suggestions > would be most helpful. From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Thu Mar 15 19:26:45 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 17:26:45 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <51580.55303.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> References: <51580.55303.qm@web54312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C6C89A78A164D9C9427C4B98CC236F5@JohnPC> John It has nothing to do with K-40. We all need potassium to live, as I pointed out recently on Radsafe. John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jacobus" To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" ; "John R Johnson" ; "Jeff Terry" ; "radsafe" Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:02 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > Jim, > Beyond cells, is there any proof to your statement > regarding K-40? A citation or two would be nice. > > --- "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > wrote: > >> Amen John, >> >> Not only would you die without potassium, it is >> fairly well homeostatically controlled. >> >> We even know that with just K-39, removing the K-40, >> and shielding from external radiation, cells and >> organisms cease to function. >> >> Regards, Jim >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of John R >> Johnson >> Sent: Mon 3/12/2007 10:30 PM >> To: Jeff Terry; radsafe >> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida >> pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") >> >> Jerry et al >> >> K-40 is one of the isotopes always seen in whole >> body counting, and I used >> it to insure may counter was working properly. If >> the peack at 1.46 MeV was >> not present, the counter was assumed to be not >> working correctly. >> >> John >> *************** >> John R Johnson >> CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >> Vancouver, B. C. >> Canada >> (604) 222-9840 >> idias at interchange.ubc.ca >> >> >> . >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jeff Terry" >> To: "radsafe" >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida >> pawnshop's >> radioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> > Reminds me of an experiment that I did in a class >> that I taught a few >> > years ago. >> > >> > We ashed 100 pounds (45 kg) of bananas to isolate >> the potassium. Did the >> > store clerk every give us a dirty look when we >> were checking out. I think >> > that she thought we were a bit disjointed. >> > >> > Anyway, we isolated 200 g of potassium from the 45 >> kg of bananas so about >> > 24 mg was K-40. >> > >> > We counted it with a low energy Ge detector, low >> efficiency but could >> > observe a peak. >> > >> > The students really liked that experiment. You >> need to be careful with >> > those "hot" bananas. >> > >> > Jeff >> > >> > >> > >> > On Mar 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Conklin, Al (DOH) >> wrote: >> > >> >> It's a good thing they don't know what I've got >> buried around my office; >> >> "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" >> autonite crystals, about >> >> three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life >> threatening" radium >> >> dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" >> salt substitute. When I >> >> go out to do training, and take along my props, >> I'm a walking nuclear >> >> nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for >> my lunch. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl >> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >> >> Behalf Of John Jacobus >> >> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM >> >> To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com >> >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida >> pawnshop's radioactive >> >> surprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na- >> uranium12mar12,1 >> >> ,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section >> >> >> >> Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise >> >> >> >> A small amount of yellowcake uranium is >> discovered among rocks from an >> >> estate sale. >> >> >> >> By Stephen Hudak >> >> Orlando Sentinel >> >> >> >> March 12, 2007 >> >> >> >> BELLEVIEW, FLA. - Every blue moon or so, >> collectibles dealer and >> >> pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a >> buried gem among an estate's >> >> junk and tchotchkes. >> >> >> >> His latest find was so alarming he called >> firefighters. >> >> >> >> "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this >> box of rocks from an >> >> estate sale," Cafaro said. >> >> "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. >> Topaz. >> >> Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's >> that last one? Uranium? >> >> I think that's illegal.' " >> >> >> >> Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last >> week with about three >> >> dozen emergency workers, including >> Geiger-counter-waving members of a >> >> hazardous materials team and the Marion County >> Sheriff's Office domestic >> >> security task force. >> >> >> >> They focused on a container the size of a soup >> can. >> >> Labeled with radioactive markings, the container >> protected a vial that >> >> held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a >> processed mineral that, in >> >> larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for >> nuclear reactors or >> >> enriched for weapons. >> >> >> >> In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to >> invade Iraq, in part, >> >> on a now-discredited intelligence report that >> claimed former Iraqi >> >> President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of >> yellowcake, presumably >> >> to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. >> >> >> >> "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible >> this stuff was," Cafaro >> >> said. >> >> >> >> The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate >> sale in Miami about 10 >> >> years ago, was turned over to the Florida >> Department of Health for >> >> disposal. >> >> >> >> Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far >> from being a >> >> weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, >> chairman of the physics >> >> department at the University of Central Florida. >> She said it did not >> >> pose a serious threat in small quantities. >> >> >> >> "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman >> said. >> >> "It has to be processed to be converted into >> something dangerous." >> >> >> >> Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida >> Department of Law >> >> Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake >> were reported to the >> >> agency "on a regular basis" and were not >> considered especially >> >> dangerous. >> >> >> >> >> >> +++++++++++++++++++ >> >> "We must face the fact that the United States is >> neither omnipotent or >> >> omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the >> world's population; that >> >> we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 >> percent of mankind; that we >> > === message truncated === > > > +++++++++++++++++++ > "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or > omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we > cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we > cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there > cannot be an American solution to every world problem." > -- John F. Kennedy > > -- John > John Jacobus, MS > Certified Health Physicist > e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > It's here! Your new message! > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From rhelbig at california.com Fri Mar 16 02:40:35 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 23:40:35 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fw: [DU-WATCH] Hamid Bahmani interview Message-ID: <014f01c7679e$85b258a0$01425142@roger1> the source is Press TV in Iran PRESS TV 25, East 2nd St., Farhang Blvd., Saadat Abad, 19977-66411 Tehran, I.R Iran Phone: +98 21 23011130 Fax: +98 21 23011139 Once you get past the interesting beginning they really get into anti-DU mode But Mr. Bahmani is not reporting any more. He is one of the million victims of depleted uranium bombs dropped on Iraqi soil by allied forces. He has lost sight in both eyes and recently his health deteriorated further, targeting his lungs, making breathing a strenuous job for him. According to Deborah Hastings, AP National Writer, an estimated 286 tons of depleted uranium munitions were fired by the U.S. in Iraq and Kuwait in 1991. Another 130 tons were dropped while toppling Saddam Hussein. And still fifteen years after it was first used in Iraq, there is only one U.S. government study monitoring veterans exposed to depleted uranium. Despite all the hardship he endures, Hamid Bahmani welcomed Press TV into his home, and with the help of his loving and caring wife gave an account of his experiences in war-torn Iraq. TG: What made you change from filming sports to recording a war? HB: I had been a cameraman during wars in Afghanistan and Bosnia. In my profession I was known as "portable," because of my strong arms. I could carry a camera weighing 20 kilograms attached to 250 meters of cable for several hours, without ever getting tired. I had the physical ability then, I was fit and I knew the region. I was familiar with the customs and traditions and I had some knowledge of the language. I guess these were the reasons I was chosen to go to Iraq as part of the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB) press team. TG: Are journalists aware of dangers they face in wars? HB: Journalists are brave people. Every journalist loves his work. Those who write love their pen and paper; a photographer loves his camera. TG: What makes cameramen reporting a war different from their colleagues? HB: A cameraman who goes to report a war knows he has to be ready to take care of his camera as if it were his own child. He has to know his camera well and be able to repair it when needed. In a war zone, there is no one to help you with that. TG: What do you love about your job? HB: I love the feeling of belonging to people, not just my own countrymen but I belong to the entire world. Anyone working in broadcast journalism belongs to the entire world. Networks are mostly global now. The job we have chosen has dangerous routes. There is the possibility of injury or death. I want to let my films play and allow people to make judgments for themselves. I hope the world would more strongly condemn wars, in particular the use of chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction. TG: What are some of your most famous images from the Iraq war? HB: One showed American soldiers kicking and opening a door to a house and a frightened Iraqi woman inside rushing to protect her child. In another one American troops were beating a hand-cuffed man in the back with their guns. There are many more. TG: Where were you when you were hit by the bombing? HB: I was in Basra. The house I was in was destroyed and everyone else in it got killed. After the bombing my face became very hot. I was taken to a hospital. My sight and my hearing were affected but the extent of the damage was not immediately apparent. My medical reports are my evidence. TG: What bombs were used in that region? HB: They were American Dirty Bombs, which contained depleted uranium. The Pentagon itself announced that they had used tons of such bombs there. International environmental agencies confirmed the use. Children as well as adults have been the victims of these weapons. Even the American and British troops themselves were affected, but they were not aware of the harm they had received until later. They did not realize that they were also being experimented on. These bombs affect all organs and cause injuries to the eyes and lungs. They slowly hinder the function of other organs and severely damage the body. Uranium passes through the body within 3 to 5 days, but its effects on soil and air will last thousands of years. The region is still contaminated. These bombs wage a never-ending war. TG: Are you receiving any compensation? Who pays for your treatment? HB: I have received a loan from IRIB and the monthly installments are deducted from my salary. Since December 2006 I have been able to use IRIB's insurance scheme. Before that I paid all my own expenses. TG: Have you asked for support from any organization? HB: No, because I do not seek financial support. I have been able to cover my expenses even before the help I received from IRIB. But I expected the members of Majlis (Iranian parliament), especially the MP from my native Mazandaran, to follow up my story off camera. I was injured while reporting for my people. I just wonder why people who have been dedicated to their work and their people are so easily forgotten. TG: If you were told beforehand that you would suffer such injuries, would you still have gone to Iraq? HB: Yes. I assure you that even if I only had 0.5% sight in even one eye today I would still go again, to film and to report. I promise you. TG: Have you ever considered another career? HB: No, Never. I love this job. I have not bid farewell to my camera, my career and I never will. TG/BG E-mail this to a friend Printable version Count of view : 123 http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=2612?ionid=3510302 ? Press TV 2007. All rights reserved. dominouglias wrote: To: du-watch at yahoogroups.com From: "dominouglias" Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:02:28 -0000 Subject: [DU-WATCH] Hamid Bahmani interview Zoom on Hamid Bahmani, life has no playbacks Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:54:25 Touria Ghaffari Press TV In spring 2007 Iranian journalism will get the spotlight with Jahangir Razmi finally claiming his Pulitzer Prize for a photo he took 28 years ago. The Pulitzer which was awarded to "an unnamed photographer of United Press International" back in 1979 marks the only time the Prize has been awarded to an anonymous recipient. Iranian journalists, like many others from the world over, have had their fair share of brutal fate. Many died while reporting in the 8 year Iraq-imposed war in the 1980s, others while on assignments for foreign media. In 1990 Farzad Bazoft, 31, an Iranian-born freelance journalist working for the London based newspaper, The Observer, was executed by hanging in Iraq. He was charged for spying after a one-day trial behind closed doors which lacked any conclusive evidence of his guilt. Bazoft was a reporter doing a story, investigating a mysterious explosion at Al Iskandaria military complex, linked to secret missile developments and storage of chemical weapons Saddam received from the West to use against his own people and Iranian soldiers defending their homeland. The British government, fearing the efforts would tarnish diplomatic relations, did not pressure Saddam Hussein hard enough, allowing the young journalist to be sent to the gallows. According to Guardian Unlimited, the execution of Farzad Bazoft provides one more illustration of the failure of the British government's appeasement policy. In 2003, Kaveh Golestan, well known Iranian photographer and filmmaker working for the BBC in northern Iraq, was killed instantly after stepping on a landmine. The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) reported that in 2006, fifty-five journalists were killed worldwide, an increase over the 47 in the previous year. The New York-based non-partisan international organization stated that Iraq was the deadliest place for journalists with 32 killings, followed by Afghanistan and the Philippines, with three deaths each. Hamid Bahmani, 43, is an Iranian cameraman who was in Iraq at the time coalition forces invaded the country in 2003. His images for Al Alam, filmed while riding on an American tank, were the first live accounts of the Iraq war, relayed by CNN and other networks, giving the then newly established Arabic language channel a reputation for daring reports and a prominent place among its rivals. But Mr. Bahmani is not reporting any more. He is one of the million victims of depleted uranium bombs dropped on Iraqi soil by allied forces. He has lost sight in both eyes and recently his health deteriorated further, targeting his lungs, making breathing a strenuous job for him. According to Deborah Hastings, AP National Writer, an estimated 286 tons of depleted uranium munitions were fired by the U.S. in Iraq and Kuwait in 1991. Another 130 tons were dropped while toppling Saddam Hussein. And still fifteen years after it was first used in Iraq, there is only one U.S. government study monitoring veterans exposed to depleted uranium. Despite all the hardship he endures, Hamid Bahmani welcomed Press TV into his home, and with the help of his loving and caring wife gave an account of his experiences in war-torn Iraq. TG: What made you change from filming sports to recording a war? HB: I had been a cameraman during wars in Afghanistan and Bosnia. In my profession I was known as "portable," because of my strong arms. I could carry a camera weighing 20 kilograms attached to 250 meters of cable for several hours, without ever getting tired. I had the physical ability then, I was fit and I knew the region. I was familiar with the customs and traditions and I had some knowledge of the language. I guess these were the reasons I was chosen to go to Iraq as part of the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB) press team. TG: Are journalists aware of dangers they face in wars? HB: Journalists are brave people. Every journalist loves his work. Those who write love their pen and paper; a photographer loves his camera. TG: What makes cameramen reporting a war different from their colleagues? HB: A cameraman who goes to report a war knows he has to be ready to take care of his camera as if it were his own child. He has to know his camera well and be able to repair it when needed. In a war zone, there is no one to help you with that. TG: What do you love about your job? HB: I love the feeling of belonging to people, not just my own countrymen but I belong to the entire world. Anyone working in broadcast journalism belongs to the entire world. Networks are mostly global now. The job we have chosen has dangerous routes. There is the possibility of injury or death. I want to let my films play and allow people to make judgments for themselves. I hope the world would more strongly condemn wars, in particular the use of chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction. TG: What are some of your most famous images from the Iraq war? HB: One showed American soldiers kicking and opening a door to a house and a frightened Iraqi woman inside rushing to protect her child. In another one American troops were beating a hand-cuffed man in the back with their guns. There are many more. TG: Where were you when you were hit by the bombing? HB: I was in Basra. The house I was in was destroyed and everyone else in it got killed. After the bombing my face became very hot. I was taken to a hospital. My sight and my hearing were affected but the extent of the damage was not immediately apparent. My medical reports are my evidence. TG: What bombs were used in that region? HB: They were American Dirty Bombs, which contained depleted uranium. The Pentagon itself announced that they had used tons of such bombs there. International environmental agencies confirmed the use. Children as well as adults have been the victims of these weapons. Even the American and British troops themselves were affected, but they were not aware of the harm they had received until later. They did not realize that they were also being experimented on. These bombs affect all organs and cause injuries to the eyes and lungs. They slowly hinder the function of other organs and severely damage the body. Uranium passes through the body within 3 to 5 days, but its effects on soil and air will last thousands of years. The region is still contaminated. These bombs wage a never-ending war. TG: Are you receiving any compensation? Who pays for your treatment? HB: I have received a loan from IRIB and the monthly installments are deducted from my salary. Since December 2006 I have been able to use IRIB's insurance scheme. Before that I paid all my own expenses. TG: Have you asked for support from any organization? HB: No, because I do not seek financial support. I have been able to cover my expenses even before the help I received from IRIB. But I expected the members of Majlis (Iranian parliament), especially the MP from my native Mazandaran, to follow up my story off camera. I was injured while reporting for my people. I just wonder why people who have been dedicated to their work and their people are so easily forgotten. TG: If you were told beforehand that you would suffer such injuries, would you still have gone to Iraq? HB: Yes. I assure you that even if I only had 0.5% sight in even one eye today I would still go again, to film and to report. I promise you. TG: Have you ever considered another career? HB: No, Never. I love this job. I have not bid farewell to my camera, my career and I never will. TG/BG E-mail this to a friend Printable version Count of view : 123 http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=2612?ionid=3510302 ? Press TV 2007. All rights reserved. From blc+ at pitt.edu Fri Mar 16 09:27:29 2007 From: blc+ at pitt.edu (Bernard L. Cohen) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 09:27:29 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus In-Reply-To: <200703151932.l2FJWnKJ013232@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> References: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> <200703151932.l2FJWnKJ013232@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Message-ID: <45FAA951.8090500@pitt.edu> Otto G. Raabe wrote: > > March 15, 2007 > > I think the term "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron. If there must > be a vote, there must not be definitive scientific information, so > there is no basis for being certain. ---Whether or not "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron, the global warming people have sold it to the media and to the public as though it is the truth. I am suggesting that we take advantage of their successful "sell". If the media and thr public now believe that the scientific consensus is close to "the truth", that could be a powerful tool for us. From LNMolino at aol.com Fri Mar 16 09:42:03 2007 From: LNMolino at aol.com (LNMolino at aol.com) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:42:03 EDT Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus Message-ID: In a message dated 3/16/2007 9:01:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time, blc+ at pitt.edu writes: ---Whether or not "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron, the global warming people have sold it to the media and to the public as though it is the truth. I am suggesting that we take advantage of their successful "sell". If the media and thr public now believe that the scientific consensus is close to "the truth", that could be a powerful tool for us. Yes true BUT is this different in some moral way than what the anti nuke folks do with the "public perception of radiation? Science should take the road at all times yes? I used to be of the mind set that was in total agreement of what you said but I've come to decide that I as an individual won't stoop to the level of my enemy. My overall take on "global warming" is that of course the growth of man has an impact on the planet it is after all an ecosystem hence all things in that system affects the operations of that system, we DO and have sent a lot of bad things out into the environment and there at some point has got to be a balancing act by Mother Nature and she can for want of a better term be one hell of a bitch. I however do not buy that in 20 years and the like all life will end and so fourth as some ultra extreme eco types will purport. I agree that they sold it to the public at large for the most part and if you look at advertising by say the big oil guys you see they see that they have bought in to it as well. I however won't exploit those "fears" for the purpose of nuclear energy. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino at aol.com 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) 979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) 979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Fri Mar 16 10:25:17 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:25:17 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08BC6B@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> What you say is true, but it doesn't really address Bernie's proposal. I don't see that he is proposing to follow the use of 'global warming fear tactics' here. He seems to be just proposing to document the concurrence of those (of us) who "support nuclear power" to produce a large, broad, "scientific consensus." OTOH, the 17,000 signatures of "scientists" (and others) who challenged global warming has not rejected the premise of "scientific consensus." Unfortunately, the "Sci Con" that has developed is more a product of the premise that the formal IPCC and other funded (by governments) scientists and their publications support the premise that anthropogenic carbon is causing global warming. There is no open forum. There is no such accumulation of orchestrated formal review processes to push media response to document and support nuclear power. Each professional society (beyond ANS and HPS, e.g., ASME, IEEE, APS, ACS, etc.) does, or should, produce support documents. Those position statements should be collected, with documents of the number of members. This could also include the unions and other interests, like NAM. (We could even try to get positive statements from some oil, gas and coal interests.) Of course, we could start this by starting with those we know are already on the record! Regards, Jim >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl >[mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of LNMolino at aol.com >Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:42 AM >To: radsafe at radlab.nl >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus > > > >In a message dated 3/16/2007 9:01:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time, >blc+ at pitt.edu writes: > >---Whether or not "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron, the >global warming >people have sold it to the media and to the public as though >it is the truth. >I am suggesting that we take advantage of their successful >"sell". If the >media and thr public now believe that the scientific consensus >is close to "the >truth", that could be a powerful tool for us. > > >Yes true BUT is this different in some moral way than what the >anti nuke >folks do with the "public perception of radiation? > >Science should take the road at all times yes? > >I used to be of the mind set that was in total agreement of >what you said >but I've come to decide that I as an individual won't stoop to >the level of my >enemy. > >My overall take on "global warming" is that of course the >growth of man has >an impact on the planet it is after all an ecosystem hence all >things in that >system affects the operations of that system, we DO and have >sent a lot of >bad things out into the environment and there at some point >has got to be a >balancing act by Mother Nature and she can for want of a >better term be one hell > of a bitch. I however do not buy that in 20 years and the >like all life will >end and so fourth as some ultra extreme eco types will >purport. I agree that >they sold it to the public at large for the most part and if >you look at >advertising by say the big oil guys you see they see that >they have bought in to >it as well. I however won't exploit those "fears" for the >purpose of nuclear >energy. > >Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET >FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI >Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire >Protection Consultant >LNMolino at aol.com > >979-412-0890 (Cell Phone) >979-690-7559 (IFW/TFW/FSS Office) >979-690-7562 (IFW/TFW/FSS Fax) > >"A Texan with a Jersey Attitude" > >"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds >discuss people" Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer >(1884 - 1962) > >The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the >author and the >author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or >organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or >associated with unless I >specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is >intended only for its >stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential >materials >retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the >public domain by the >original author. > > > >************************************** AOL now offers free >email to everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and >understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other >settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > From blc+ at pitt.edu Fri Mar 16 12:51:42 2007 From: blc+ at pitt.edu (Bernard L. Cohen) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:51:42 -0500 Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45FAD92E.1030902@pitt.edu> RuthWeiner at aol.com wrote: > . Forcing a state like New Mexico to get a fraction of electricity > from "renewables" (including biomass which produces more CO2 per BTU, > not less, than coal) does nothing except make electricity more > expensive. And so on. > ---Burning biomass does not add any net CO2 to the Earth's atmosphere, because the CO2 it emits was originally removed from the atmosphere in growing the biomass. From hflong at pacbell.net Fri Mar 16 18:30:50 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Renewables In-Reply-To: <45FAD92E.1030902@pitt.edu> Message-ID: <20070316233050.53726.qmail@web83509.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> If coal is fossil fuel it is biomass, formed from plants that took up CO2 from the atmosphere. Burning coal (or corn ethanol or sugarcane or waste paper) does not then add to atmospheric CO2 in the long run. Correct? However, "Deep in the earth, pressure is forming hydrocarbons faster than we can use them, from limestone - abiogenic oil." (Penner -- DDP meeting '07) Anyone skeptical of global warming - carbon tax "certainty" and "consensus"? Howard Long "Bernard L. Cohen" wrote: RuthWeiner at aol.com wrote: > . Forcing a state like New Mexico to get a fraction of electricity > from "renewables" (including biomass which produces more CO2 per BTU, > not less, than coal) does nothing except make electricity more > expensive. And so on. > ---Burning biomass does not add any net CO2 to the Earth's atmosphere, because the CO2 it emits was originally removed from the atmosphere in growing the biomass. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From DonJordan at ramservicesinc.com Fri Mar 16 19:35:25 2007 From: DonJordan at ramservicesinc.com (Don Jordan) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:35:25 -0600 Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus References: <45FAD92E.1030902@pitt.edu> Message-ID: <001a01c7682c$27daaa00$4501a8c0@RAMSERVICE1> This may not be strictly true because: (a) If the biomass is not replaced, then there is a net increase in the CO2 and also a decrease in the sink (i.e., rain forest). (b) the chemical and biological kinetics of the new growth may lag behind the production rate for a while. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernard L. Cohen" To: Cc: ; ; Sent: 16 March, 2007 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus > > > RuthWeiner at aol.com wrote: > > > . Forcing a state like New Mexico to get a fraction of electricity > > from "renewables" (including biomass which produces more CO2 per BTU, > > not less, than coal) does nothing except make electricity more > > expensive. And so on. > > > > ---Burning biomass does not add any net CO2 to the Earth's > atmosphere, because the CO2 it emits was originally removed from the > atmosphere in growing the biomass. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Fri Mar 16 23:28:18 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:28:18 -0400 Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus References: <45FAD92E.1030902@pitt.edu> <001a01c7682c$27daaa00$4501a8c0@RAMSERVICE1> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE08F29D@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> As you appreciate, there is little effect for a continuous process with lags of a few months or even years. It makes more sense to tuen it around. What the corn sucks up this summer, is being burned/released in a few weeks or months. There's no net carbon on the time scales of interest. Coal OTOH, is introducing CO2 that was "sequestered" (in the current vernacular :-) millions of years ago. We've burned enough coal, oil and gas to have substantially diluted the secular equilibrium (balance between production rate and decay/removal rate) of the C-14 in the atmosphere, releasing the "old" carbon in which the C-14 has been depleted. Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Don Jordan Sent: Fri 3/16/2007 8:35 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus This may not be strictly true because: (a) If the biomass is not replaced, then there is a net increase in the CO2 and also a decrease in the sink (i.e., rain forest). (b) the chemical and biological kinetics of the new growth may lag behind the production rate for a while. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernard L. Cohen" To: Cc: ; ; Sent: 16 March, 2007 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus > > > RuthWeiner at aol.com wrote: > > > . Forcing a state like New Mexico to get a fraction of electricity > > from "renewables" (including biomass which produces more CO2 per BTU, > > not less, than coal) does nothing except make electricity more > > expensive. And so on. > > > > ---Burning biomass does not add any net CO2 to the Earth's > atmosphere, because the CO2 it emits was originally removed from the > atmosphere in growing the biomass. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From eic at shaw.ca Sat Mar 17 13:44:52 2007 From: eic at shaw.ca (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 12:44:52 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle References: <45FAD92E.1030902@pitt.edu> <001a01c7682c$27daaa00$4501a8c0@RAMSERVICE1> Message-ID: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Friends, Some of you may be interested in this documentary: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831 . It makes some good points about how funding, publishing, and media attention affect 'scientific consensus'. For the purists on the list, 'nuclear' is mentioned about 37 minutes into the film. As the title suggests, the film is skeptical about global warming. The scientists argue that other factors, such as solar activity, are more important in driving our climate than human CO2 emissions. To me, that is a nice academic question, but it is really fairly irrelevant. I think we all agree that if the sun were to turn off, it would get pretty cold. So what? It is not likely that the sun will be turned off any time soon and even if it was, there is not much I can do about it. The relevant question is: How much warming can be expected as a result of x% increase in CO2 levels? If that increase is something to worry about, then we should worry it and try to do something about it. It doesn't matter if the sun or volcanoes have a bigger effect. The global warming skeptics are saying that the climate models are bad, without offering better models. They are offering nice climate models that examine the effect of sun spots on climate. Unfortunately, these are completely irrelevant to the question of the effect of CO2 on the climate. I think it is established that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. So, it would only make sense that adding CO2 will have some effect on the climate. The question is: In what direction and by how much? I think the global warming skeptics need to come up with their own estimates, before we can have any type of debate. I know there are a bunch of unknowns, that's why we have error bars. If the error bars fall into the region of negligibly trivial changes, then the debate should be about who's model is wrong. If the error bars fall between the regions of no effect and global disaster, then we should be looking at reducing the error bars and, in the meantime, also look at ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Kai From hshaffer3 at verizon.net Fri Mar 16 10:50:30 2007 From: hshaffer3 at verizon.net (Howard Shaffer) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:50:30 -0400 Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus References: <45F988F7.1000106@pitt.edu> <200703151932.l2FJWnKJ013232@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> <45FAA951.8090500@pitt.edu> Message-ID: <003501c767e2$d3c32580$2f01a8c0@HCShafferTnkpd> Colleagues: Scientific Consensus is in two parts: What the science (and engineering as applied science) shows, and the INDIVIDUALS Personal JUDGMENT on the risk/cost -benefit, and social/political worth. It appears that Scientists are not taught to make this distinction, and I know Engineers are not (I am an Engineer.) In 2001 I had the privilege of being the ANS's AAAS Congressional Fellow. As a Democrat I sold myself to Republicans and served on the House Committee on Science's Energy Subcommittee. The Committee and Subcommittee were chaired by Republicans. I said "Science and Engineering, when done right, yield the same answer for everyone. It is in the next step, of making VALUE JUDGMENTS that the Parties (and people) differ. I found that in the end all political issues come down to value judgments, which is why they are hard, and controversial. In the debate over nuclear power, which is tied to radiation safety and energy policy and global warming, there are a few scientists whose personal value judgments differ from the majority of scientists. In Radiation Safety, I believe there is no dispute over what the science shows. Profs Goffman and Tamplin make the personal value judgment that the possible effects are not acceptable for society. Prof Cohen and most of us acknowledge that even one alpha emitting particle, or one exposure to sunlight for one minute COULD (theoretically) cause a fatal cancer, BUT we go the next step and evaluate the PROBABILITY of these effects AND compare them to the risk/benefit of alternatives. We then find the risk acceptable for ourselves, our families, and our children. I suggest we poll the Scientific and Technical communities that uses radiation in any form - the medical profession, all the disciplines that use radioactive tracers etc, engineers and operators of nuclear power plants, X-ray technicians, and of course Health Physicists. Present the question in the two parts: What the science shows, and your personal value judgment on the risk/benefit. If we present the results to the public and press this way it may help cleanup the mess. In the Global Warming debate, the results of the science are still incomplete, BUT the POLICY implications are so large that may of the scientists involved have jumped to the personal value judgment and recommended POLICY initiatives. They must admit that the science is still incomplete. Nay Sayers of global warming must admit that they do not want to have the policy decisions made until the science is more complete. The answer to the question of "When do you make a policy decision on incomplete science?" depends on the personal value judgments of the decision makers of the risks of waiting versus the risks of going ahead and being wrong. Senator Lieberman framed the issue this way, during the 2000 Presidential campaign: If there is Global Warming then we want to have policies for: energy efficiency, conservation, alternative energies, and getting off oil, natural gas, and coal. If there is no Global Warming, then what about atmospheric pollution? Then the policies are......the same as for Global Warming. If there is no atmospheric pollution, then what about running out of oil, gas, and coal? Then the policies are ....the same as for Global Warming. If there is no atmospheric pollution then what about National Security and dependence outside energy sources? Then the policies are......the same as for Global Warming. If there is no National Security then what about economic security-balance of payments, national debt, and consumer debt? Then the policies are.....the same as for Global Warming. The question remains of HOW LONG we have and HOW to we do we implement policies while keeping the economy strong and providing for a population that is growing and the impoverished who want and deserve to have better lives. Howard Shaffer PE The attached essay of mine may help. Don't be thrown off by the title. It's what the law students asked for, and they liked it and published it. ---------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bernard L. Cohen" To: "Otto G. Raabe" Cc: "RadiatSafety" ; "ANS listserv (E-mail)" Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:27 AM Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus > > > Otto G. Raabe wrote: > >> >> March 15, 2007 >> >> I think the term "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron. If there must be >> a vote, there must not be definitive scientific information, so there is >> no basis for being certain. > > ---Whether or not "scientific consensus" is an oxymoron, the global > warming people have sold it to the media and to the public as though it is > the truth. I am suggesting that we take advantage of their successful > "sell". If the media and thr public now believe that the scientific > consensus is close to "the truth", that could be a powerful tool for us. > > _______________________________________________ > MbrExchange mailing list > MbrExchange at list.ans.org > From RuthWeiner at aol.com Fri Mar 16 11:25:39 2007 From: RuthWeiner at aol.com (RuthWeiner at aol.com) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:25:39 EDT Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus Message-ID: Professor Hank Jenkins-Smith (Texas A&M) gave a first-rate talk at Sandia a couple of weeks ago (I know Hank quite well and in my opinion he is the only social scientist who does it right when investigating attitudes toward nukes). Hank made several interesting points: 1. His surveys (and he does them right) show that the public estimates of the risks of nuclear power have not changed significantly in the last 15 or so years, but the public assessment of the benefits of nukes is becoming increasingly favorable. The reason seems to be not only global climate change but brownouts, oil and natural gas prices, and similar stresses. People do a sort of intuitive cost benefit analysis and as the benefits (or perception of them) increases, attitudes change. 2. For the hard core enviros. being anti-nuke appears to be a core tenet of a semi-religion, and we are not going to change these folks. I came away with three thoughts: 1. We (including the NRC) are somewhat wasting our time tryng to convince people that the risks are insignificant and spend our time explaining (but not promoting!!) the benefits. 2. The environmental leadership created the enviro religion, with all its "core beliefs" and I believe did it cynically, deliberately, and in full knowledge that it would become the "opiate of the masses." I have little respect for Patrick Moore and Stewart Brand; had they been honest, they would have quit 20 years ago when I did. Instead they spent those decades (!) promoting the religion and now are jumping ship. 3. PLEASE let us not make a religion out of global climate change! Once it is a belief system, there is no way to ask questions any more, and there are still plenty of questions. As you all know, I believe that "nukes are good, coal is bad" is a sure loser. I don't believe the deaths from coal burning any more than I believe the deaths from low-level radiation. Coal plants are a whole lot cleaner than they were 30 years ago, and mine safety has hugely improved (it's still extremely dangerous, but then, so is working with very radioactive material if you aren't careful). Moreover, let's face it, we are going to burn coal, or gasify it, or do solvent extraction and burn the products. So let's manage the environmental effects. Emissions trading doesn't reduce anything, but makes good money for the traders. Forcing a state like New Mexico to get a fraction of electricity from "renewables" (including biomass which produces more CO2 per BTU, not less, than coal) does nothing except make electricity more expensive. And so on. End of rant Ruth Ruth F. Weiner, Ph. D. ruthweiner at aol.com 7336 Lew Wallace NE Albquerque, NM 87109 505-284-8406 (o) 505-856-5011 (h) ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From wonuc.secretary at orange.fr Thu Mar 15 18:56:18 2007 From: wonuc.secretary at orange.fr (wonuc) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 00:56:18 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Marie Curie Prize Message-ID: <00d901c7675d$8bb06080$0901a8c0@pc> Dear Colleague, In the context of the "Marie Curie Prize" assignment procedure, I would be grateful should you designate five persons from the international scientific community whose work has significantly advanced our knowledge on the effects of low and very low doses of ionizing radiation on human health and biotopes. You must not have any family or professional links to the persons designated. You will find attached the rules of procedure of the "Marie Curie prize" Please justify your recommendation in a short note (100 words maximum) and indicate the surname, first name(s), electronic address, professional address, and the most recent positions occupied by your candidates for the Marie Curie Prize. The final choice will be made by the Honorary Board of the International Journal of Low Radiation. The Prize will be award during the next 6th LOWRAD International Conference, "The effects of low and very low doses of ionizing radiation on human health and biotopes" 18, 19, 20 October 2007, Budapest, Hungary (www.wonuc.org/lowrad/lowrad2007-01.doc) Many thanks for your support Warm regards Andre Ma?sseu Professor Andr? MA?SSEU IJLR Editor in chief WONUC, President 49, rue Lauriston, 75116 Paris, France tel. +33 (0)6 08 21 32 87 e-mail: a.maisseu at wonuc.org web: http://www.wonuc.org From blainehoward at yahoo.com Sat Mar 17 14:47:35 2007 From: blainehoward at yahoo.com (Blaine Howard) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 12:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Kai, I read your comments about ?The Great Global Warming Swindle ? with interest. I wondered how you missed the whole point of the video. The main points are: FIRST AND FOREMOST, CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. Man made emissions are trivial and CO2 concentrations do not drive global warming. It is not a cause and effect relationship, so x% increase in CO2 will have no effect on global warming. The great oceans are a tremendous reservoir for CO2 which buffers the effect of current emissions, spreading it over hundreds of years. The primary factors for global warming (and cooling) are the SUN and the CLOUDS (water vapor). These are factors over which we have absolutely no control. So to limit the underdeveloped countries to not using the energy sources available to them and asking them to get there electricity from solar and wind generators is ridiculous and cruel to the poor people of those countries. The earth has a tremendous capacity for temperature control since it was designed by the ultimate expert. So we need to back off from trying to control the uncontrollable and develop the energy sources He has made available to us for the benefit of all mankind. Sincerely, Blaine N. Howard From ograabe at ucdavis.edu Sat Mar 17 16:23:37 2007 From: ograabe at ucdavis.edu (Otto G. Raabe) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 13:23:37 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200703172023.l2HKNuKJ000944@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> >March 17, 2007 According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. Otto ********************************************** Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP Center for Health & the Environment University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 *********************************************** From jk5554 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 17 16:08:46 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 14:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070317210846.15085.qmail@web32512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> So.... If the release of huge amounts of CO2 is risk-free and without consequence... Should TXU have stuck with its plan for 8 or 11 coal-fired power plants in Texas?? Did "He" ordain these coal plants and their particulate/CO2 emissions (particulate emissions are a hazard to human health)? Or has "He" endowed us with the capability of learning, science, and the ability to do things a better way? Did TXU make a mistake when it consulted with insurance companies and professional risk managers ...and cancelled most of the coal plants...and instead ordered two 1700MW nuclear reactors? You might wish to update by checking out http://neinuclearnotes.blogspot.com/ or http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/search/label/Texas%20coal Much skepticism about climate change is driven, I believe, by the fact that the anti-nuclear, anti-everything "environmental crowd" has jumped onto the "global warming" bandwagon. As most here know, these folks believe that people should go back to riding bicycles and using the energy eqivalent of one or two lightbulbs. They completely ignore technological solutions to problems. Unfortunately, (I have criticized him numerous times at my blog for this), Al Gore panders to these people. Al Gore should know MUCH better. His father was a big supporter of Oak Ridge. Oak Ridge's late Dr. Alvin Weinberg helped establish the science that led to the Keeling atmospheric CO2 curve. I might like to close with an excellent comment from MIT hurricane scientist Kerry Emanuel, no skeptic of climate change. In the concluding paragraphs of the article linked below, he writes: http://bostonreview.net/BR32.1/emanuel.html "Had it not been for green opposition, the United States today might derive most of its electricity from nuclear power, as does France; thus the environmentalists must accept a large measure of responsibility for today?s most critical environmental problem." === Why is it that insightful pieces like the one authored by Kerry Emanuel receive so little attention at Radsafe. As a community of scientifically-trained people, we should be open to discussions about points like the ones that Dr. Emanuel brings up. I recommend those on this list interested in the climate issue to read Kerry Emanuel's article and closely consider it rather than resort to the siren song of kneejerk "global warming skepticism." We need to give thought and a science-oriented mindset to this climate issue. While there are extremists who are exagerrating the consequences of increased atmospheric CO2, Kai Kaletsch's assessment was thoughtful. I do not believe that pumping large amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere is risk-free. Many on Radsafe are involved in a technology that is key to addressing the climate situation....unless by mistake I somehow wound up on the Coal Combustion Operators' Group List. :-) ~Ruth (for critique of Al Gore, see) http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/search?q=Al+Gore --- Blaine Howard wrote: > Dear Kai, > I read your comments about ?The Great Global > Warming > Swindle ? with interest. I wondered how you missed > the whole point of the video. > The main points are: > FIRST AND FOREMOST, CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL > WARMING. > > Man made emissions are trivial and CO2 > concentrations > do not drive global warming. It is not a cause and > effect relationship, so x% increase in CO2 will have > no effect on global warming. > The great oceans are a tremendous reservoir for CO2 > which buffers the effect of current emissions, > spreading it over hundreds of years. > The primary factors for global warming (and cooling) > are the SUN and the CLOUDS (water vapor). > These are factors over which we have absolutely no > control. So to limit the underdeveloped countries > to > not using the energy sources available to them and > asking them to get there electricity from solar and > wind generators is ridiculous and cruel to the poor > people of those countries. > The earth has a tremendous capacity for temperature > control since it was designed by the ultimate > expert. > So we need to back off from trying to control the > uncontrollable and develop the energy sources He has > made available to us for the benefit of all mankind. > > Sincerely, > Blaine N. Howard > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From eic at shaw.ca Sat Mar 17 16:06:51 2007 From: eic at shaw.ca (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:06:51 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Message-ID: <006f01c768d8$2f0db2c0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> oops, sent this from the wrong address. > Hi Blaine, > > Yes, I understand that the program was trying to make the first point that > CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. To me, that is an irrelevant point. > Maybe, solar activity has more effect than CO2. That does not necessarily > mean we don't have to worry about the perturbations that CO2 causes, above > what is caused by solar activity. In fact, when they present the graph of > solar activity vs temperature, there is pretty good agreement, until you > get to the last 30 years. Both lines go in the same direction, but by > completely different magnitudes. So, it looks like something changed (i.e. > a perturbation was introduced) in the solar activity vs climate > relationship. (They don't leave that graph on the screen very long. They > take their time following the curves as they get drawn for the last few > hundred years, where they agree very well, and then take the graph off > very quickly after the last 30 years are drawn and one line shows a slight > kink upwards and the other one seems to go off the chart.) > > Now, it looks like I indeed missed your second point that "...x% increase > in CO2 will have no effect on global warming." Where exactly was that > point made? In fact, I got the complete opposite impression: Near the end > of the show, one of the skeptics argues that the global warming proponents > are using bigger CO2 emissions than there actually are and he goes on to > say something like NO WONDER they are predicting high temperature > increases. > > I don't understand how that statement is compatible with your assertion > that x% increase in CO2 will have no effect on global warming. That > skeptic seems to say that, obviously, CO2 causes global warming, but we > overestimate the effect because we overestimate the source term. > > Best Regards, > > Kai > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Blaine Howard" > To: "Kai Kaletsch" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:47 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > > >> Dear Kai, >> I read your comments about "The Great Global Warming >> Swindle " with interest. I wondered how you missed >> the whole point of the video. >> The main points are: >> FIRST AND FOREMOST, CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. >> >> Man made emissions are trivial and CO2 concentrations >> do not drive global warming. It is not a cause and >> effect relationship, so x% increase in CO2 will have >> no effect on global warming. >> The great oceans are a tremendous reservoir for CO2 >> which buffers the effect of current emissions, >> spreading it over hundreds of years. >> The primary factors for global warming (and cooling) >> are the SUN and the CLOUDS (water vapor). >> These are factors over which we have absolutely no >> control. So to limit the underdeveloped countries to >> not using the energy sources available to them and >> asking them to get there electricity from solar and >> wind generators is ridiculous and cruel to the poor >> people of those countries. >> The earth has a tremendous capacity for temperature >> control since it was designed by the ultimate expert. >> So we need to back off from trying to control the >> uncontrollable and develop the energy sources He has >> made available to us for the benefit of all mankind. >> >> Sincerely, >> Blaine N. Howard >> >> > From sjd at swcp.com Sat Mar 17 18:49:28 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:49:28 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <200703172023.l2HKNuKJ000944@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> References: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> March 17 Otto: Where were Prof. Lindzen's comments published? Has the correlation of sunspot activity been published in a journal that is readily accessible to the layman, and if so which journal and what is the citation? Thank you for your assistance. Steven Dapra At 01:23 PM 3/17/07 -0800, Otto G. Raabe wrote: >>March 17, 2007 > >According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research >Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our >primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the >science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global >mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; >(2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two >centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase >is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we >are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to >carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." > >Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the >UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly >known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth >temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is >unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with >the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 >degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. > >Otto From sjd at swcp.com Sat Mar 17 18:51:23 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:51:23 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> March 17 Blaine: Where would be the best place to read about the role of sun and clouds in global warming? Thank you for your assistance. Steven Dapra At 12:47 PM 3/17/07 -0700, Blaine Howard wrote: >Dear Kai, > I read your comments about "The Great Global Warming >Swindle " with interest. I wondered how you missed >the whole point of the video. > The main points are: >FIRST AND FOREMOST, CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. > >Man made emissions are trivial and CO2 concentrations >do not drive global warming. It is not a cause and >effect relationship, so x% increase in CO2 will have >no effect on global warming. >The great oceans are a tremendous reservoir for CO2 >which buffers the effect of current emissions, >spreading it over hundreds of years. >The primary factors for global warming (and cooling) >are the SUN and the CLOUDS (water vapor). >These are factors over which we have absolutely no >control. So to limit the underdeveloped countries to >not using the energy sources available to them and >asking them to get there electricity from solar and >wind generators is ridiculous and cruel to the poor >people of those countries. >The earth has a tremendous capacity for temperature >control since it was designed by the ultimate expert. >So we need to back off from trying to control the >uncontrollable and develop the energy sources He has >made available to us for the benefit of all mankind. > >Sincerely, >Blaine N. Howard From maurysis at peoplepc.com Sat Mar 17 19:57:06 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:57:06 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> References: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <45FC8E62.70005@peoplepc.com> Dear Steve, Otto, et al Below are sources in response to your requests. I have extracted these items from Fred Singer's distribution of : The Week That Was (March 17, 2007)?Brought to you by SEPP Best regards, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.cpm) ============================== Steven Dapra wrote: > March 17 > > Otto: > > Where were Prof. Lindzen's comments published? Has the correlation of > sunspot activity been published in a journal that is readily > accessible to the layman, and if so which journal and what is the > citation? > > Thank you for your assistance. > > Steven Dapra > _________________ > At 01:23 PM 3/17/07 -0800, Otto G. Raabe wrote: > >>> March 17, 2007 >> >> According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National >> Research Council global warming > ------------snipped----------- ========================== The long-awaited reply to Al Gore?s An Inconvenient Truth? -- in the form of the British documentary ?The Great Global Warming Swindle.? After almost 4 million views on Google, see it now on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Wr1hcIp2U. We [TWTW by Singer] will announce its availability as a DVD on TWTW. Another significant event: The skeptics win an important debate (ITEM #3). Here is the transcript of the NY global warming debate featuring Lindzen and Crichton: http://ff.org/centers/csspp/pdf/20070316_notcrisis.pdf =========================== From eic at shaw.ca Sat Mar 17 20:27:42 2007 From: eic at shaw.ca (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:27:42 -0600 Subject: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus References: <45FAD92E.1030902@pitt.edu> <001a01c7682c$27daaa00$4501a8c0@RAMSERVICE1> Message-ID: <00a701c768fc$9fdc9830$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Hi Don, I think that, in most cases, biomass means straw, sawdust, branches etc that would otherwise be left to rot or burned, releasing CO2 without recovering any BTUs. You are correct that the source of the material needs to be considered. If forests are cut down in order to burn the wood, then there is a temporary increase in CO2 release. If trees are planted on grazing or unused land (because they now have economic value) then there will be a temporary net absorption of CO2. In any case, unqualified statements like: burning biomass produces more CO2 than coal, are misleading. Kai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Jordan" To: Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus > This may not be strictly true because: > > (a) If the biomass is not replaced, then there is a net increase in the > CO2 > and also a decrease in the sink (i.e., rain forest). > > (b) the chemical and biological kinetics of the new growth may lag behind > the production rate for a while. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bernard L. Cohen" > To: > Cc: ; ; > > Sent: 16 March, 2007 11:51 AM > Subject: Re: [MbrExchange] Re: [ RadSafe ] Scientific Consensus > > >> >> >> RuthWeiner at aol.com wrote: >> >> > . Forcing a state like New Mexico to get a fraction of electricity >> > from "renewables" (including biomass which produces more CO2 per BTU, >> > not less, than coal) does nothing except make electricity more >> > expensive. And so on. >> > >> >> ---Burning biomass does not add any net CO2 to the Earth's >> atmosphere, because the CO2 it emits was originally removed from the >> atmosphere in growing the biomass. >> _______________________________________________ >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list >> >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html >> >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From maurysis at peoplepc.com Sat Mar 17 22:55:17 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:55:17 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <45FCB825.4060903@peoplepc.com> Here is an extensive paper concerned with solar influence ... http://www.john-daly.com/solar/solar.htm Correlation is not causality, but a number of requirements for inferring causality are met by papers in this search. Enjoy! Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) =================== Steven Dapra wrote: > March 17 > > Blaine: > > Where would be the best place to read about the role of sun > and clouds in global warming? > > Thank you for your assistance. > > Steven Dapra > ______________________ > At 12:47 PM 3/17/07 -0700, Blaine Howard wrote: Dear Kai, I read your comments about "The Great Global Warming Swindle " with interest. I wondered how you missed the whole point of the video. The main points are: FIRST AND FOREMOST, CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. Man made emissions are trivial and CO2 concentrations do not drive global warming. It is not a cause and effect relationship, so x% increase in CO2 will have no effect on global warming. The great oceans are a tremendous reservoir for CO2 which buffers the effect of current emissions, spreading it over hundreds of years. The primary factors for global warming (and cooling) are the SUN and the CLOUDS (water vapor). These are factors over which we have absolutely no control. So to limit the underdeveloped countries to not using the energy sources available to them and asking them to get there electricity from solar and wind generators is ridiculous and cruel to the poor people of those countries. The earth has a tremendous capacity for temperature control since it was designed by the ultimate expert. So we need to back off from trying to control the uncontrollable and develop the energy sources He has made available to us for the benefit of all mankind. Sincerely, Blaine N. Howard From maurysis at peoplepc.com Sat Mar 17 23:07:40 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 22:07:40 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> Dang, meant to include this with last posting -- a search on teoma.com using the phrase: [sunspot correlation with global temperature] will yield extensive data references. Maury&Dog maurysis at peoplepc.com ===================== Steven Dapra wrote: > March 17 > > Blaine: > > Where would be the best place to read about the role of sun > and clouds in global warming? > > Thank you for your assistance. > > Steven Dapra > > > At 12:47 PM 3/17/07 -0700, Blaine Howard wrote: > >> Dear Kai, >> I read your comments about "The Great Global Warming > --------------snipped---------- From ograabe at ucdavis.edu Sun Mar 18 01:50:46 2007 From: ograabe at ucdavis.edu (Otto G. Raabe) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 22:50:46 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> References: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <200703180556.l2I5uAKJ016896@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> At 03:49 PM 3/17/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: >Where were Prof. Lindzen's comments published? Has the correlation >of sunspot activity been published in a journal that is readily >accessible to the layman, and if so which journal and what is the citation? ******************************* I found the Lindzen statements at the Web Site of Professor Walter E. Williams (WalterEWILLIams.com). The solar data and earth temperature comparison is from the Danish Meteorological Institute as presented on page A12, March 14, Investors Business Daily. Otto ********************************************** Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP Center for Health & the Environment University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 *********************************************** From kai at eic.nu Sat Mar 17 16:01:16 2007 From: kai at eic.nu (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:01:16 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle References: <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005f01c768d7$6792cdc0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Hi Blaine, Yes, I understand that the program was trying to make the first point that CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. To me, that is an irrelevant point. Maybe, solar activity has more effect than CO2. That does not necessarily mean we don't have to worry about the perturbations that CO2 causes, above what is caused by solar activity. In fact, when they present the graph of solar activity vs temperature, there is pretty good agreement, until you get to the last 30 years. Both lines go in the same direction, but by completely different magnitudes. So, it looks like something changed (i.e. a perturbation was introduced) in the solar activity vs climate relationship. (They don't leave that graph on the screen very long. They take their time following the curves as they get drawn for the last few hundred years, where they agree very well, and then take the graph off very quickly after the last 30 years are drawn and one line shows a slight kink upwards and the other one seems to go off the chart.) Now, it looks like I indeed missed your second point that "...x% increase in CO2 will have no effect on global warming." Where exactly was that point made? In fact, I got the complete opposite impression: Near the end of the show, one of the skeptics argues that the global warming proponents are using bigger CO2 emissions than there actually are and he goes on to say something like NO WONDER they are predicting high temperature increases. I don't understand how that statement is compatible with your assertion that x% increase in CO2 will have no effect on global warming. That skeptic seems to say that, obviously, CO2 causes global warming, but we overestimate the effect because we overestimate the source term. Best Regards, Kai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blaine Howard" To: "Kai Kaletsch" Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > Dear Kai, > I read your comments about "The Great Global Warming > Swindle " with interest. I wondered how you missed > the whole point of the video. > The main points are: > FIRST AND FOREMOST, CO2 DOESN'T DRIVE GLOBAL WARMING. > > Man made emissions are trivial and CO2 concentrations > do not drive global warming. It is not a cause and > effect relationship, so x% increase in CO2 will have > no effect on global warming. > The great oceans are a tremendous reservoir for CO2 > which buffers the effect of current emissions, > spreading it over hundreds of years. > The primary factors for global warming (and cooling) > are the SUN and the CLOUDS (water vapor). > These are factors over which we have absolutely no > control. So to limit the underdeveloped countries to > not using the energy sources available to them and > asking them to get there electricity from solar and > wind generators is ridiculous and cruel to the poor > people of those countries. > The earth has a tremendous capacity for temperature > control since it was designed by the ultimate expert. > So we need to back off from trying to control the > uncontrollable and develop the energy sources He has > made available to us for the benefit of all mankind. > > Sincerely, > Blaine N. Howard > > From eic at shaw.ca Sun Mar 18 13:08:20 2007 From: eic at shaw.ca (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 12:08:20 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200703172023.l2HKNuKJ000944@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Message-ID: <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> I agree with what Otto said and I'm not particularly alarmed about global warming. Living in Canada, its a bit of a stretch to try to convince me that shorter, warmer winters are a bad thing. However, given that we all agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, I think it is a fair question to ask: How much would the temperature increase if we keep increasing our CO2 output at the current rate (assuming no change in solar activity etc)? Unfortunately, the global warming skeptics have not provided a quantitative answer. If the answer depends on inputs that we don't know, then give me a range of possibilities (and, if possible, probabilities). I don't like questions like: How much of our 0.2C temperature increase since 1940 is due to industrial CO2 releases? To some people, this implies that all individual contributing factors have to be less than 0.2C. Of course, this does not follow logically. You could have a 2.2C warming due to CO2, offset by a 0.2C cooling because of reduced solar activity (please correct me if I'm wrong, but, if I remember the graph correctly, the current level of solar activity is still less than the 1940 peak, while the current temperatures are higher) and a 1.8C cooling due to emissions that block sunlight. (For most of the time since the industrial revolution, we have emitted fairly little CO2 and lots of other pollution, like SO2 and particulate. In the west, we have only recently started to reduce these. Other places in the world are still emitting a lot of that stuff.) Regards, Kai ----- Original Message ----- From: Otto G. Raabe To: Blaine Howard ; Kai Kaletsch Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle March 17, 2007 According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. Otto ********************************************** Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP Center for Health & the Environment University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 *********************************************** From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Sun Mar 18 13:34:23 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:34:23 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200703172023.l2HKNuKJ000944@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: <2865DE8C18B74375A2A46CA5F5646A34@JohnPC> Kai I live in Canada also, and am concerned about global warming and the melting of the polar "ice caps". Our house is over 100 m above sea level but houses below us in Vancouver and in other cities on the three coasts are concerned because they will be under water. John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kai Kaletsch" To: "Otto G. Raabe" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle >I agree with what Otto said and I'm not particularly alarmed about global >warming. Living in Canada, its a bit of a stretch to try to convince me >that shorter, warmer winters are a bad thing. > > However, given that we all agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, I think it > is a fair question to ask: How much would the temperature increase if we > keep increasing our CO2 output at the current rate (assuming no change in > solar activity etc)? Unfortunately, the global warming skeptics have not > provided a quantitative answer. If the answer depends on inputs that we > don't know, then give me a range of possibilities (and, if possible, > probabilities). > > I don't like questions like: How much of our 0.2C temperature increase > since 1940 is due to industrial CO2 releases? > > To some people, this implies that all individual contributing factors have > to be less than 0.2C. Of course, this does not follow logically. You could > have a 2.2C warming due to CO2, offset by a 0.2C cooling because of > reduced solar activity (please correct me if I'm wrong, but, if I remember > the graph correctly, the current level of solar activity is still less > than the 1940 peak, while the current temperatures are higher) and a 1.8C > cooling due to emissions that block sunlight. (For most of the time since > the industrial revolution, we have emitted fairly little CO2 and lots of > other pollution, like SO2 and particulate. In the west, we have only > recently started to reduce these. Other places in the world are still > emitting a lot of that stuff.) > > Regards, > Kai > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Otto G. Raabe > To: Blaine Howard ; Kai Kaletsch > Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 3:23 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > > > March 17, 2007 > > According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research > Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our > primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the > science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global > mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; > (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two > centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase > is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we > are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to > carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." > > Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the > UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly > known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth > temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is > unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with > the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 > degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. > > Otto > > > ********************************************** > Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP > Center for Health & the Environment > University of California > One Shields Avenue > Davis, CA 95616 > E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu > Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 > *********************************************** > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From kaleissa at kacst.edu.sa Sun Mar 18 15:07:47 2007 From: kaleissa at kacst.edu.sa (Dr. Khalid Aleissa) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 23:07:47 +0300 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <2865DE8C18B74375A2A46CA5F5646A34@JohnPC> Message-ID: <20070318200647.6D9BADF22E@ns.kacst.edu.sa> Although the topic is interesting but, I do not see any real relationship between global warming and radiation protection? Khalid -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John R Johnson Sent: 18 March, 2007 09:34 ? To: Kai Kaletsch; Otto G. Raabe Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Kai I live in Canada also, and am concerned about global warming and the melting of the polar "ice caps". Our house is over 100 m above sea level but houses below us in Vancouver and in other cities on the three coasts are concerned because they will be under water. John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kai Kaletsch" To: "Otto G. Raabe" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle >I agree with what Otto said and I'm not particularly alarmed about global >warming. Living in Canada, its a bit of a stretch to try to convince me >that shorter, warmer winters are a bad thing. > > However, given that we all agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, I think it > is a fair question to ask: How much would the temperature increase if we > keep increasing our CO2 output at the current rate (assuming no change in > solar activity etc)? Unfortunately, the global warming skeptics have not > provided a quantitative answer. If the answer depends on inputs that we > don't know, then give me a range of possibilities (and, if possible, > probabilities). > > I don't like questions like: How much of our 0.2C temperature increase > since 1940 is due to industrial CO2 releases? > > To some people, this implies that all individual contributing factors have > to be less than 0.2C. Of course, this does not follow logically. You could > have a 2.2C warming due to CO2, offset by a 0.2C cooling because of > reduced solar activity (please correct me if I'm wrong, but, if I remember > the graph correctly, the current level of solar activity is still less > than the 1940 peak, while the current temperatures are higher) and a 1.8C > cooling due to emissions that block sunlight. (For most of the time since > the industrial revolution, we have emitted fairly little CO2 and lots of > other pollution, like SO2 and particulate. In the west, we have only > recently started to reduce these. Other places in the world are still > emitting a lot of that stuff.) > > Regards, > Kai > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Otto G. Raabe > To: Blaine Howard ; Kai Kaletsch > Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 3:23 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > > > March 17, 2007 > > According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research > Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our > primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the > science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global > mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; > (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two > centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase > is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we > are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to > carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." > > Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the > UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly > known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth > temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is > unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with > the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 > degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. > > Otto > > > ********************************************** > Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP > Center for Health & the Environment > University of California > One Shields Avenue > Davis, CA 95616 > E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu > Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 > *********************************************** > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Sun Mar 18 15:14:36 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 13:14:36 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <20070318200647.6D9BADF22E@ns.kacst.edu.sa> References: <20070318200647.6D9BADF22E@ns.kacst.edu.sa> Message-ID: <224937F2C50D4570941B2F7B5E4161EA@JohnPC> Khalid It is because global warming is causing the ocean levels to rise. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Khalid Aleissa" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 1:07 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Although the topic is interesting but, I do not see any real relationship between global warming and radiation protection? Khalid -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John R Johnson Sent: 18 March, 2007 09:34 ? To: Kai Kaletsch; Otto G. Raabe Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Kai I live in Canada also, and am concerned about global warming and the melting of the polar "ice caps". Our house is over 100 m above sea level but houses below us in Vancouver and in other cities on the three coasts are concerned because they will be under water. John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kai Kaletsch" To: "Otto G. Raabe" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle >I agree with what Otto said and I'm not particularly alarmed about global >warming. Living in Canada, its a bit of a stretch to try to convince me >that shorter, warmer winters are a bad thing. > > However, given that we all agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, I think it > is a fair question to ask: How much would the temperature increase if we > keep increasing our CO2 output at the current rate (assuming no change in > solar activity etc)? Unfortunately, the global warming skeptics have not > provided a quantitative answer. If the answer depends on inputs that we > don't know, then give me a range of possibilities (and, if possible, > probabilities). > > I don't like questions like: How much of our 0.2C temperature increase > since 1940 is due to industrial CO2 releases? > > To some people, this implies that all individual contributing factors have > to be less than 0.2C. Of course, this does not follow logically. You could > have a 2.2C warming due to CO2, offset by a 0.2C cooling because of > reduced solar activity (please correct me if I'm wrong, but, if I remember > the graph correctly, the current level of solar activity is still less > than the 1940 peak, while the current temperatures are higher) and a 1.8C > cooling due to emissions that block sunlight. (For most of the time since > the industrial revolution, we have emitted fairly little CO2 and lots of > other pollution, like SO2 and particulate. In the west, we have only > recently started to reduce these. Other places in the world are still > emitting a lot of that stuff.) > > Regards, > Kai > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Otto G. Raabe > To: Blaine Howard ; Kai Kaletsch > Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 3:23 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > > > March 17, 2007 > > According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research > Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our > primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the > science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global > mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; > (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two > centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase > is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we > are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to > carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." > > Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the > UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly > known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth > temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is > unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with > the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 > degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. > > Otto > > > ********************************************** > Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP > Center for Health & the Environment > University of California > One Shields Avenue > Davis, CA 95616 > E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu > Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 > *********************************************** > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 18 20:28:34 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:28:34 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <2865DE8C18B74375A2A46CA5F5646A34@JohnPC> References: <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200703172023.l2HKNuKJ000944@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070318182209.009f3d70@mail.swcp.com> March 18 What's to keep the water from that melted ice from running back into the opening left by the ice that has melted? How much of the polar ice cap is above water? Since water expands when it freezes, the volume of liquid water will be smaller than the volume of frozen water (won't it?), and some of that ice cap will run into the excess volume left after the ice melts -- won't it? Am I missing something here with cities allegedly being under water? Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 11:34 AM 3/18/07 -0700, John R Johnson wrote: >Kai > >I live in Canada also, and am concerned about global warming and the >melting of the polar "ice caps". Our house is over 100 m above sea level >but houses below us in Vancouver and in other cities on the three coasts >are concerned because they will be under water. > >John >*************** >John R Johnson, PhD >CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >Vancouver, B. C. >Canada >(604) 222-9840 >idias at interchange.ubc.ca > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Kai Kaletsch" >To: "Otto G. Raabe" >Cc: >Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:08 AM >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > > >>I agree with what Otto said and I'm not particularly alarmed about global >>warming. Living in Canada, its a bit of a stretch to try to convince me >>that shorter, warmer winters are a bad thing. [edit] >>Regards, >>Kai From sjd at swcp.com Sun Mar 18 20:28:43 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:28:43 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <200703180556.l2I5uAKJ016896@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317164647.009f2e40@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070318180807.009edd50@mail.swcp.com> March 18 I thank Dr. Raabe for sending the link to Walter Williams' web site. I sent Prof. Williams an e-mail asking for the primary source to Lindzen's statements about global warming. He wasn't certain of the source, and sent me this link to Lindzen's portion of the MIT website: . Entering this portion of the URL takes one to a directory of Lindzen's global warming testimonies in 1991, 1996, 1997, and the 2001 testimony in the link above. All of them are well worth reading, and the '91 and '97 testimonies have references. Entering this portion of the URL takes one to a directory of Lindzen's papers and other of his material. Within this is a link to Lindzen's review of "Laboratory Earth: The Planetary Gamble We Can't Afford to Lose" by Stephen H. Schneider (1997). It's also worth reading, and was published in "Regulation," Spring 1998 (Cato Institute). Lindzen takes a decidedly dim view of Schneider's book. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 10:50 PM 3/17/07 -0800, Otto G. Raabe wrote: >At 03:49 PM 3/17/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: >>Where were Prof. Lindzen's comments published? Has the correlation of >>sunspot activity been published in a journal that is readily accessible >>to the layman, and if so which journal and what is the citation? >******************************* >I found the Lindzen statements at the Web Site of Professor Walter E. >Williams (WalterEWILLIams.com). The solar data and earth temperature >comparison is from the Danish Meteorological Institute as presented on >page A12, March 14, Investors Business Daily. > >Otto > >********************************************** >Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP >Center for Health & the Environment >University of California >One Shields Avenue >Davis, CA 95616 >E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu >Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 >*********************************************** From hflong at pacbell.net Sun Mar 18 19:32:59 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <224937F2C50D4570941B2F7B5E4161EA@JohnPC> Message-ID: <20070319003259.99991.qmail@web83504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Nuclear power SHOULD be promoted by believers that coal plants cause sea level rise, That is the radsafe pertinence. Actually, the antartic ice cap is thickening and any artic ice melt won't change sea levels, since it is floating (test that with ice cubes in a glass of water). Howard Long John R Johnson wrote: Khalid It is because global warming is causing the ocean levels to rise. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Khalid Aleissa" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 1:07 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Although the topic is interesting but, I do not see any real relationship between global warming and radiation protection? Khalid -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John R Johnson Sent: 18 March, 2007 09:34 ? To: Kai Kaletsch; Otto G. Raabe Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Kai I live in Canada also, and am concerned about global warming and the melting of the polar "ice caps". Our house is over 100 m above sea level but houses below us in Vancouver and in other cities on the three coasts are concerned because they will be under water. John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kai Kaletsch" To: "Otto G. Raabe" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle >I agree with what Otto said and I'm not particularly alarmed about global >warming. Living in Canada, its a bit of a stretch to try to convince me >that shorter, warmer winters are a bad thing. > > However, given that we all agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, I think it > is a fair question to ask: How much would the temperature increase if we > keep increasing our CO2 output at the current rate (assuming no change in > solar activity etc)? Unfortunately, the global warming skeptics have not > provided a quantitative answer. If the answer depends on inputs that we > don't know, then give me a range of possibilities (and, if possible, > probabilities). > > I don't like questions like: How much of our 0.2C temperature increase > since 1940 is due to industrial CO2 releases? > > To some people, this implies that all individual contributing factors have > to be less than 0.2C. Of course, this does not follow logically. You could > have a 2.2C warming due to CO2, offset by a 0.2C cooling because of > reduced solar activity (please correct me if I'm wrong, but, if I remember > the graph correctly, the current level of solar activity is still less > than the 1940 peak, while the current temperatures are higher) and a 1.8C > cooling due to emissions that block sunlight. (For most of the time since > the industrial revolution, we have emitted fairly little CO2 and lots of > other pollution, like SO2 and particulate. In the west, we have only > recently started to reduce these. Other places in the world are still > emitting a lot of that stuff.) > > Regards, > Kai > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Otto G. Raabe > To: Blaine Howard ; Kai Kaletsch > Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 3:23 PM > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > > > March 17, 2007 > > According to MIT Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the National Research > Council global warming panelist and lead author on the new UN report: "Our > primary conclusion was that despite some knowledge and some agreement, the > science is by no means settled. We are quite confident (1) that global > mean temperature is about 0.5 degrees Celsius higher than a century ago; > (2) that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have risen over the past two > centuries; and (3) that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas whose increase > is likely to warm the earth. But-- and I cannot stress this enough -- we > are NOT in a position to confidently attribute past climate change to > carbon dioxide or to forecast what the climate will be in the future." > > Unfortunately the press and those who wrote so-called "summaries" of the > UN report did not understand or wanted to ignore how little is truly > known! Sunspot activity does correlate almost perfectly with mean earth > temperatures over the last 150 years, so it seems clear that it is > unlikely that there is a meaningful anthropomorphic factor associated with > the average temperature of the earth. Also, an increase of only 0.5 > degrees Celsius in 100 years is not alarming. > > Otto > > > ********************************************** > Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP > Center for Health & the Environment > University of California > One Shields Avenue > Davis, CA 95616 > E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu > Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 > *********************************************** > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From hflong at pacbell.net Sun Mar 18 19:55:34 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] "Solar Activity and Arctic Temperatures" In-Reply-To: <200703180556.l2I5uAKJ016896@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Message-ID: <20070319005535.94959.qmail@web83513.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> "Solar Activity and Arctic Temperatures" graph of Dr Willie Soon is on p 225 of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming (CCHorner, Regnery Pub.) and has been presented by Dr Soon at several DDP meetings, with voluminous other original data. Howard Long "Otto G. Raabe" wrote: At 03:49 PM 3/17/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: >Where were Prof. Lindzen's comments published? Has the correlation >of sunspot activity been published in a journal that is readily >accessible to the layman, and if so which journal and what is the citation? ******************************* I found the Lindzen statements at the Web Site of Professor Walter E. Williams (WalterEWILLIams.com). The solar data and earth temperature comparison is from the Danish Meteorological Institute as presented on page A12, March 14, Investors Business Daily. Otto ********************************************** Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP Center for Health & the Environment University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 *********************************************** _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jk5554 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 18 21:33:12 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070318182209.009f3d70@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <844592.37143.qm@web32504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm not sure that my message yesterday went through properly to the list. (Yahoo spam filter...) In brief, please see "Phaeton's Reins" by MIT climatologist Dr. Kerry Emanuel. Dr. Emanuel is a hurricane scientist and he believes that 'global warming' is indeed occurring. He breaks through a lot of the "party line" polarization on the climate issue. Read the last few paragraphs of the article. http://bostonreview.net/BR32.1/emanuel.html Dr. Emanuel also supports nuclear energy, which is the topic of this list. A proper approach to CO2 mitigation could be very good (money, jobs...) for nuclear energy. I hope everyone here knows that a few (thousand) windmills don't generate enough CO2-free energy for modern civilization. But...we don't have to have coal either.... The two "party line" poles on the climate issue obscure the science and the creativity needed to find solutions. What I mean by "party lines" is the skeptic/Sen. Inhofe crowd on the one side and the "Al Gore/wind power/oh-but-we-don't-want-nukes" crowd on the other side. I would like to see more insight and fewer "party lines" on this list. ~Ruth Sponsler http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/2007/02/climate-scientist-speaks-on-nuclear.html ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 From maurysis at peoplepc.com Sun Mar 18 22:58:45 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:58:45 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Authors, 2007 SPM Message-ID: <45FE0A75.7080104@peoplepc.com> The assertion has been made often that the IPCC SPM was prepared by politicians or policy people as contrasted with scientific folks. I finally got this thing converted -- follows a list of the authors. Does anyone know the educational backgrounds of these writers? Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) PS. I have the full 18 pages as a txt (vs pdf) file if anyone wants it. =================== Climate Change 2007: The Physical Science Basis. Summary for Policymakers Drafting Authors: Richard Aley, Terje Berntsen, NathanielL Bindof, Zhenlin Chen, Amnat Chidthaisong, Piere Friedlingstein, Jonathan Gregory, Gabriele Hegerl, Martin Heimann, Bruce Hewitson, Brian Hoskins, Fortunat Joos, Jean Jouzel, Vladimir Katsov, UlrikeLohmann, Martin Manning, Taroh Matsuno, Mario Molina, Nevile Nichols, Jonathan Overpeck, Dahe Qin, Graciela Raga, Venkatachalam Ramaswamy, Jiawen Ren, Matilde Rusticucci, Susan Solomon, Richard Somervile, Thomas F.Stocker, Peter Stot, Ronald J. Stoufer, Penny Wheton, Richard A.Wood, David Wrat Draft Contributing Authors: Julie Arblaster, Guy Braseur, Jens Heselbjerg Christensen, Kenneth Denman, David W.Fahey, Piers Forster, Eystein Jansen, Philip D.Jones, Reto Knuti, Herv? LeTreut, Peter Lemke, Gerald Mehl, Philip Mote, David Randal, D?ith? A. Stone, Kevin E. Trenberth, J?rgen Wilebrand, Francis Zwiers From andrewsjp at chartertn.net Mon Mar 19 09:19:58 2007 From: andrewsjp at chartertn.net (John Andrews) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:19:58 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070318182209.009f3d70@mail.swcp.com> References: <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <109674.93949.qm@web50604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200703172023.l2HKNuKJ000944@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> <00f201c76988$69915770$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070318182209.009f3d70@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <45FE9C0E.1040009@chartertn.net> Steven Dapra wrote: > March 18 > > What's to keep the water from that melted ice from running > back into the opening left by the ice that has melted? How much of > the polar ice cap is above water? Since water expands when it > freezes, the volume of liquid water will be smaller than the volume of > frozen water (won't it?), and some of that ice cap will run into the > excess volume left after the ice melts -- won't it? > > Am I missing something here with cities allegedly being under > water? > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > > At 11:34 AM 3/18/07 -0700, John R Johnson wrote: >> Kai >> >> I live in Canada also, and am concerned about global warming and the >> melting of the polar "ice caps". Our house is over 100 m above sea >> level but houses below us in Vancouver and in other cities on the >> three coasts are concerned because they will be under water. >> >> John >> *************** >> John R Johnson, PhD >> CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >> Vancouver, B. C. >> Canada >> (604) 222-9840 >> idias at interchange.ubc.ca snip Stephen, the thing is that water contracts as it cools until just above freezing, then begins to expand again. So, the net result is that when the ice warms, then melts it is contracting, then when it begins to warm as water it expands. Interestingly, there is a current report of a huge eddy in the ocean off Australia that is so big, so deep, and so cold that it causes a one meter depression in the surface of the ocean. Of course this can only occur in deep water, not near the coastline. But, think about it, if the entire oceans warm even a little, the water expands and the oceans get deeper. Hint, sell your beach property now! The average depth of the oceans is 3720 meters. The density of pure water at 60 deg C is 0.985. Using this number it appears that a one degree C rise in the overall ocean temperature would be about 1 meter increase in sea level, approximately. Of course it takes a lot longer for the ocean to warm than it does for the atmosphere. But you get the picture. John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee From blc+ at pitt.edu Mon Mar 19 09:59:01 2007 From: blc+ at pitt.edu (Bernard L. Cohen) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:59:01 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Renewables In-Reply-To: <20070316233050.53726.qmail@web83509.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <20070316233050.53726.qmail@web83509.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45FEA535.6020507@pitt.edu> howard long wrote: > If coal is fossil fuel it is biomass, formed from plants that took up > CO2 from the atmosphere. Burning coal (or corn ethanol or sugarcane > or waste paper) does not then add to atmospheric CO2 in the long run. > Correct? ---The coal took CO2 out of the atmosphere hundreds of millions of years ago and life on Earth has adapted to this reduced atmospheric CO2 since then. It would therefore be risky to return that CO2 to the atmosphere. However growing biomass is taking CO2 out of the atmosphere in the present era so returning it to the atmosphere now does not change the situation in the present era. From eic at shaw.ca Mon Mar 19 10:14:31 2007 From: eic at shaw.ca (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:14:31 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <015401c76a39$4b942a70$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Friends, it looks like the film The Great Global Warming Swindle [see http://video.google.com:80/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831 ] may itself be a fraudumentary [ see for example http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2355956.ece ] I was wondering why all the data presented stopped in the 1980s. It turns out that was when the data sets were discredited. It turns out that neither solar activity or CO2 do a very good job of explaining the cooling observed after 1940 [ see http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/aerosol.gif ]. One hypothesis is that pollution was blocking the sun. --- So much for the assertion that we puny humans can't possibly affect the climate. Regards, Kai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maury Siskel" To: "Steven Dapra" Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle > Dang, meant to include this with last posting -- a search on teoma.com > using the phrase: [sunspot correlation with global temperature] will yield > extensive data references. > Maury&Dog maurysis at peoplepc.com > > ===================== > Steven Dapra wrote: > >> March 17 >> >> Blaine: >> >> Where would be the best place to read about the role of sun and >> clouds in global warming? >> >> Thank you for your assistance. >> >> Steven Dapra >> >> >> At 12:47 PM 3/17/07 -0700, Blaine Howard wrote: >> >>> Dear Kai, >>> I read your comments about "The Great Global Warming >> > --------------snipped---------- > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Mon Mar 19 18:33:52 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:33:52 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Authors, 2007 SPM In-Reply-To: <45FE0A75.7080104@peoplepc.com> References: <45FE0A75.7080104@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: There is no one in the list of Drafting Authors and Contributing Authors that is recognizably a politician. Richard Alley (not Aley) is a prominent specialist in glaciers and icecaps. Gabriele Hegerl, Fortunat Joos, Jonathon Overpeck, Venkatachalam Ramaswamy, Susan Solomon, Richard Somerville, Thomas Stocker, Peter Stott (not Stot), Phillip Jones, Gerald Mehl (Meehl?), and Kevin Trenberth are all prominent climate scientists. Francis Zwiers literally wrote the book (with von Storch) on the use of statistics in climate research. Mario Molina shared a Nobel prize with Sherry Rowland and a German whose name escapes me at the moment for working out the effect of CFCs on stratospheric ozone. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA Jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Maury Siskel Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 8:59 PM To: radsafe Subject: [ RadSafe ] Authors, 2007 SPM The assertion has been made often that the IPCC SPM was prepared by politicians or policy people as contrasted with scientific folks. I finally got this thing converted -- follows a list of the authors. Does anyone know the educational backgrounds of these writers? Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) PS. I have the full 18 pages as a txt (vs pdf) file if anyone wants it. =================== Climate Change 2007: The Physical Science Basis. Summary for Policymakers Drafting Authors: Richard Aley, Terje Berntsen, NathanielL Bindof, Zhenlin Chen, Amnat Chidthaisong, Piere Friedlingstein, Jonathan Gregory, Gabriele Hegerl, Martin Heimann, Bruce Hewitson, Brian Hoskins, Fortunat Joos, Jean Jouzel, Vladimir Katsov, UlrikeLohmann, Martin Manning, Taroh Matsuno, Mario Molina, Nevile Nichols, Jonathan Overpeck, Dahe Qin, Graciela Raga, Venkatachalam Ramaswamy, Jiawen Ren, Matilde Rusticucci, Susan Solomon, Richard Somervile, Thomas F.Stocker, Peter Stot, Ronald J. Stoufer, Penny Wheton, Richard A.Wood, David Wrat Draft Contributing Authors: Julie Arblaster, Guy Braseur, Jens Heselbjerg Christensen, Kenneth Denman, David W.Fahey, Piers Forster, Eystein Jansen, Philip D.Jones, Reto Knuti, Herv? LeTreut, Peter Lemke, Gerald Mehl, Philip Mote, David Randal, D?ith? A. Stone, Kevin E. Trenberth, J?rgen Wilebrand, Francis Zwiers _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Mon Mar 19 18:50:40 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:50:40 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <20070318200647.6D9BADF22E@ns.kacst.edu.sa> References: <2865DE8C18B74375A2A46CA5F5646A34@JohnPC> <20070318200647.6D9BADF22E@ns.kacst.edu.sa> Message-ID: Dr. Khalid Aleissa wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Dr. Khalid Aleissa Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 1:08 PM Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Although the topic is interesting but, I do not see any real relationship between global warming and radiation protection? Khalid ====================== One connection is that nuclear power is a prominent option for moving toward a low-carbon or non-carbon economy. Interestingly, on the climate blog, www.realclimate.org , a continuing argument between environmental "purists" and those of us more pragmatically inclined, is whether nuclear power is allowable as part of the mix for replacing carbon-based energy. RealClimate, by the way, is the best source I am aware of for sound information from climate scientists about climate science aimed at a technically educated, but not climate-specialist audience. In particular, it has a lot to say about the Global Warming Swindle swindle-video and about William Broad's recent NYTimes piece, both of them introduced to RADSAFE. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA Jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. From blainehoward at yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 19:28:31 2007 From: blainehoward at yahoo.com (Blaine Howard) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle In-Reply-To: <20070319012007.4120.qmail@web83515.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070320002831.53723.qmail@web50605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Dr. Long, I appreciate your note. I have enjoyed reading your comments on important radiation matters and know you express sound judgment. In considering the effects of CO2 on Global Warming, I think that it is wise to be cautious. I used to tell those I trained for radiation work at a low level waste site, ?If the health effects of low dose radiation is so small that the experts can't agree whether it is harmful, beneficial or zero, then it is too small to worry about. Worry has its own negative health effects.? This also reminds me of EPA's actions concerning radon in homes. They sent video's to state radiation control programs flashing ?danger? and skull and cross-bones in an attempt to alarm the public. They wanted them to be passed on the the local TV stations, but I refused to cooperate in their scare tactics. They treated the radon and lung cancer as an emergency situation, when there is a latent period of about 30 years for lung cancer. When Dr. Cohen's study showed a clear negative correlation between radon concentrations and lung cancer mortality, they refused to accept the results and are still refusing after more than 10 years have failed to explain their dilemma. Now, the IPCC and Al Gore are trying to treat Global Warming as an emergency, when the temperature has risen only half a degree in a hundred years. The US government spends many years to study a topic to death before making a decision. Why can't we spend a little time studying Global Warming and make sure our response, if required, is in the right direction. After all, EPA's radon remediation program may be producing more cancer not less, if radon actually helps prevent lung cancer. If we act to reduce industrial development and curtail development in underdeveloped countries, this could have a massive negative effect on civilization and be extremely inhumane. And, if, at the same time, we are not having any effect of global warming, what a catastrophe that would be. The issue is much more complex than I first thought and really does merit extensive study. I appreciate all the help from RadSafe members in finding url's for more information. Sincerely, Blaine N. Howard, Health Physicist (retired) Hyrum, Utah Phone: 435-245-4336 --- howard long wrote: > Well stated, Blaine. > > God bless. > > Howard Long > From sjd at swcp.com Mon Mar 19 21:18:59 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:18:59 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: <015401c76a39$4b942a70$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> March 19 If we are to believe the Independent it looks like someone is playing fast and loose with the truth. (Did anyone note the pro forma use of the pejorative "right-wing" Washington think-tank to describe the George C Marshall Institute?) I have no views either way on the GCM Institute. Pollution blocking the sun -- well it's only a hypothesis. How much pollution is produced by volcanoes and forest fires as compared to that of humans? We humans could well be more puny than we like to think we are. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 09:14 AM 3/19/07 -0600, Kai Kaletsch wrote: >Friends, > >it looks like the film The Great Global Warming Swindle [see >http://video.google.com:80/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831 ] may >itself be a fraudumentary [ see for example >http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2355956.ece >] > >I was wondering why all the data presented stopped in the 1980s. It turns >out that was when the data sets were discredited. It turns out that >neither solar activity or CO2 do a very good job of explaining the cooling >observed after 1940 [ see >http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/aerosol.gif ]. One hypothesis is >that pollution was blocking the sun. --- So much for the assertion that we >puny humans can't possibly affect the climate. > >Regards, >Kai [edit] From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 23:44:18 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Mechanism explains how the most energetic form of light can be produced in areas dominated by bright, young stars Message-ID: <209308.76411.qm@web81613.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.vanderbilt.edu/exploration/stories/cosmicrays.html Mechanism explains how the most energetic form of light can be produced in areas dominated by bright, young stars n 2002, when astronomers first detected cosmic gamma rays ? the most energetic form of light known ? coming from the constellation Cygnus they were surprised and perplexed. The region lacked the extreme electromagnetic fields that they thought were required to produce such energetic rays. But now a team of theoretical physicists propose a mechanism that can explain this mystery and may also help account for another type of cosmic ray, the high-energy nuclei that rain down on Earth in the billions. See the above web address for the remainder of the story and photographs. --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. From Rainer.Facius at dlr.de Tue Mar 20 03:13:44 2007 From: Rainer.Facius at dlr.de (Rainer.Facius at dlr.de) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:13:44 +0100 Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Authors, 2007 SPM References: <45FE0A75.7080104@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <1B5EBED4E01074419C07EEF9D3802FDAF73CAE@exbe02.intra.dlr.de> "... a German whose name escapes me at the moment " Paul Josef Crutzen, Dutch scientist born Dec. 3rd 1933 in Amsterdam 1980-2000 Director Max-Planck-Institut fuer Chemie, Mainz, Germany Nobel Prize for Chemistry 1995 together with Mario J. Molina and Frank Sherwood Rowland RF ________________________________ Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl im Auftrag von Dukelow, James S Jr Gesendet: Di 20.03.2007 00:33 An: Maury Siskel; radsafe Betreff: RE: [ RadSafe ] Authors, 2007 SPM There is no one in the list of Drafting Authors and Contributing Authors that is recognizably a politician. Richard Alley (not Aley) is a prominent specialist in glaciers and icecaps. Gabriele Hegerl, Fortunat Joos, Jonathon Overpeck, Venkatachalam Ramaswamy, Susan Solomon, Richard Somerville, Thomas Stocker, Peter Stott (not Stot), Phillip Jones, Gerald Mehl (Meehl?), and Kevin Trenberth are all prominent climate scientists. Francis Zwiers literally wrote the book (with von Storch) on the use of statistics in climate research. Mario Molina shared a Nobel prize with Sherry Rowland and a German whose name escapes me at the moment for working out the effect of CFCs on stratospheric ozone. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA Jim.dukelow at pnl.gov From frank.helk at nis-ingenieure.de Tue Mar 20 03:47:31 2007 From: frank.helk at nis-ingenieure.de (Frank Helk) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:47:31 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: <015401c76a39$4b942a70$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: Hi Kai, On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:14:31 -0600, Kai Kaletsch wrote: >I was wondering why all the data presented stopped in the 1980s. It turns >out that was when the data sets were discredited. It turns out that neither >solar activity or CO2 do a very good job of explaining the cooling observed >after 1940 [ see http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/aerosol.gif ]. One >hypothesis is that pollution was blocking the sun. --- So much for the >assertion that we puny humans can't possibly affect the climate. I have taken a deep look at the mentioned image ... and the conclusion is relative clear. As far as I remeber the atmospheric nuclear weapons tests took place from the early 40's to about the mid 70's, and definitely ended about 1980. The period of retarded warming perfectly fits into that period, which could strongly explain that period as a mild "nuclear winter". The other source in the picture comment , "industrial pollution" seems to be not that important, because the pollutants don't reach that high atmospheric levels that the aerosols from nukes do, and as far as I remember are aerosols the more effective the higher they are. That leads me to a somewhat speculative theory: If all the politicians fail to induce a significant drop in CO2 emission to stop gobal warming within about the next 15 years, experts said that the effect could get self-sustaining by causing the oceans to release CO2 due to higher water temperature. In that case, maybe an intended "nuclear winter" could be the "last line of defense" against such an effect ? Greetings Frank From CONTEDU at hsph.harvard.edu Tue Mar 20 09:18:19 2007 From: CONTEDU at hsph.harvard.edu (Harvard Health Professional Training) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:18:19 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Occupational and Environmental Radiation Protection Message-ID: <45FFB4EA.FEF5.004B.0@hsph.harvard.edu> The Harvard School of Public Health will be holding the following event on April 23-26, 2007, which will help in meeting the Federal and State requirements for radiation safety and licensing requirements. Occupational and Environmental Radiation Protection: Principles and Practices of Radiation Safety April 23-26, 2007 Boston, Massachusetts Upon Completion Of This Program You Will Be Able To ? Identify and meet regulatory requirements from both a technical and an administrative point of view ? Develop effective methods for meeting your information needs, through both published and online resources ? Apply the principles of radiation safety protection in an effective manner to problems you will encounter in your work ? Ensure that any doses received by you, your coworkers, and the public will be as low as reasonably achievable ? Provide your professional associates as well as public groups with perspective on the importance of various radiation sources and the effectiveness of control methods in the workplace and the environment For complete details and registration please visit, http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/ccpe/programs/OERP.shtml Also please refer to your reference code: OERP 07- LIST07 From jjcohen at prodigy.net Tue Mar 20 13:47:21 2007 From: jjcohen at prodigy.net (jjcohen at prodigy.net) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:47:21 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The sky is falling! Message-ID: <002d01c76b20$329fafc0$c2f3e245@domainnotset.invalid> As I recall from a childhood tale, Henny Penny found it difficult to convince others that the sky was falling, but Henny Penny may have been correct. Just because the sky has not fallen yet doesn't mean that it may not happen at some future time. Those who warn of a global warming catastrophe, may be facing the same fate as Henny Penny, but if we wait for a long enough time, something terrible is bound to occur. Perhaps it is merely of academic interest, but I wonder whether the polar ice caps will melt before or after the sky falls ;-) Jerry Cohen From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Tue Mar 20 12:58:53 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:58:53 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle References: Message-ID: Kai Kaletsch and Frank Helk wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Frank Helk Sent: Tue 3/20/2007 1:47 AM To: Kai Kaletsch Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle Hi Kai, On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:14:31 -0600, Kai Kaletsch wrote: >I was wondering why all the data presented stopped in the 1980s. It turns >out that was when the data sets were discredited. It turns out that neither >solar activity or CO2 do a very good job of explaining the cooling observed >after 1940 [ see http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/aerosol.gif ]. One >hypothesis is that pollution was blocking the sun. --- So much for the >assertion that we puny humans can't possibly affect the climate. I have taken a deep look at the mentioned image ... and the conclusion is relative clear. As far as I remeber the atmospheric nuclear weapons tests took place from the early 40's to about the mid 70's, and definitely ended about 1980. The period of retarded warming perfectly fits into that period, which could strongly explain that period as a mild "nuclear winter". ======================= A number of years ago, I read the suggestion that atmospheric testing was related to the 1940-1970 cooling because of the impact on stratospheric chemistry of the injection of K-85 from the explosions into the stratosphere -- note: a radiation connection. The proposed mechanism was ionization caused by K-85 decay. I was/am not able, at the time or now, to evaluate how realistic this suggestion is. The other suggestion, which seems pretty reasonable, is that the cooling was caused by wartime and post-war tropospheric aerosols and that the clean air movement began removing aerosols and their cooling effect from the troposphere in the 60s, allowing the increasing concentrations of CO2 and other greenhouse gases incontested warming influence. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. From eic at shaw.ca Tue Mar 20 13:11:11 2007 From: eic at shaw.ca (Kai Kaletsch) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:11:11 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Ah, yes... I forgot about the Great Age of Volcanism from 1940 to 1970, which blocked the sun, blew the trees off Easter Island and caused acid rain. The puny humans had nothing to do with any of that. And besides, it is a well known fact that acid rain does not pollute lakes, all the dead fish do. Maybe we can teach this to kids in history class, to 'counterbalance' seeing An Inconvenient Truth that they were shown a few minutes earlier in science class. All joking aside, I am not a fan of trying to counterbalance nutty statements from one side of the political spectrum with even nuttier statements from the other side of the spectrum. This is not a healthy way for society to make decisions. Eventually, we are left to choose between 2 extreme lunatic positions. I think we have a duty to point out inaccurate and misleading statements, even if they support our political positions. When I go out looking for information about the effect CO2 has on climate, I don't appreciate being mislead about the cause and effect relationship between CO2 and warming that the ice core data presents and I don't appreciate being lied to about the correlation between solar activity and global cooling. To me, it is absolutely insane that anyone can support this stuff. Regards, Kai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dapra" To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:18 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle > March 19 > > If we are to believe the Independent it looks like someone is > playing fast and loose with the truth. (Did anyone note the pro forma use > of the pejorative "right-wing" Washington think-tank to describe the > George C Marshall Institute?) I have no views either way on the GCM > Institute. > > Pollution blocking the sun -- well it's only a hypothesis. How > much pollution is produced by volcanoes and forest fires as compared to > that of humans? We humans could well be more puny than we like to think > we are. > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > > At 09:14 AM 3/19/07 -0600, Kai Kaletsch wrote: >>Friends, >> >>it looks like the film The Great Global Warming Swindle [see >>http://video.google.com:80/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831 ] may >>itself be a fraudumentary [ see for example >>http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2355956.ece >>] >> >>I was wondering why all the data presented stopped in the 1980s. It turns >>out that was when the data sets were discredited. It turns out that >>neither solar activity or CO2 do a very good job of explaining the cooling >>observed after 1940 [ see >>http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/aerosol.gif ]. One hypothesis is >>that pollution was blocking the sun. --- So much for the assertion that we >>puny humans can't possibly affect the climate. >> >>Regards, >>Kai > > [edit] > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com Tue Mar 20 13:50:13 2007 From: Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com (Flanigan, Floyd) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 13:50:13 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The sky is falling! In-Reply-To: <002d01c76b20$329fafc0$c2f3e245@domainnotset.invalid> Message-ID: <7A9B2084CC9CEC45828E829CBF20D638013AB17A@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> There is, of course, something to be said for being fore-warned but, it is the motive of those doling out the warnings which interests me the most. Are they truly trying to be helpful or just to be 'right'? I could sit back and predict that every conceivable event will happen tomorrow. Without question, in at least some instances each day, I would be right. Every day, at least some percentage of my predictions would come true. If one is to become the world's greatest prognosticator, one has only to predict everything will happen ... eventually. Personally, I choose to ignore the present data-set on weather. We have a sampling consisting of 100 years give or take. The weather has been in constant flux for say ... several billion years. That would be like polling the body temperature of the family of 6 that lives next door and claiming that I have established the baseline by which all other humans on the planet should have their body temperature weighed against. There is nowhere near enough data points collected to establish any meaningful trends to establish if there is or is not global warming. Just my take on it. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before ... once ... I think it was on a Wednesday ...... :-) Floyd W. Flanigan B.S.Nuc.H.P. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of jjcohen at prodigy.net Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:47 PM To: radsafe Subject: [ RadSafe ] The sky is falling! As I recall from a childhood tale, Henny Penny found it difficult to convince others that the sky was falling, but Henny Penny may have been correct. Just because the sky has not fallen yet doesn't mean that it may not happen at some future time. Those who warn of a global warming catastrophe, may be facing the same fate as Henny Penny, but if we wait for a long enough time, something terrible is bound to occur. Perhaps it is merely of academic interest, but I wonder whether the polar ice caps will melt before or after the sky falls ;-) Jerry Cohen _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From brian.riely at ngc.com Tue Mar 20 15:12:50 2007 From: brian.riely at ngc.com (Riely, Brian P.) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:12:50 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com><45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com><5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: Informative article: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html Some statement from the above: If we are in a global warming crisis today, even the most aggressive and costly proposals for limiting industrial carbon dioxide emissions would have a negligible effect on global climate! Of the 186 billion tons of CO2 that enter earth's atmosphere each year from all sources, only 6 billion tons are from human activity. Approximately 90 billion tons come from biologic activity in earth's oceans and another 90 billion tons from such sources as volcanoes and decaying land plants. At 368 parts per million CO2 is a minor constituent of earth's atmosphere-- less than 4/100ths of 1% of all gases present. Compared to former geologic times, earth's current atmosphere is CO2- impoverished During the last 100 years there have been two general cycles of warming and cooling recorded in the U.S. We are currently in the second warming cycle. Overall, U.S. temperatures show no significant warming trend over the last 100 years (1). This has been well - established but not well - publicized In the 1970s concerned environmentalists like Stephen Schneider of the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado feared a return to another ice age due to manmade atmospheric pollution blocking out the sun. Incidentally, earth's temperature and CO2 levels today have reached levels similar to a previous interglacial cycle of 120,000 - 140,000 years ago. From beginning to end this cycle lasted about 20,000 years. This is known as the Eemian Interglacial Period and the earth returned to a full-fledged ice age immediately afterward. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Kai Kaletsch Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:11 PM To: Steven Dapra; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle Ah, yes... I forgot about the Great Age of Volcanism from 1940 to 1970, which blocked the sun, blew the trees off Easter Island and caused acid rain. The puny humans had nothing to do with any of that. And besides, it is a well known fact that acid rain does not pollute lakes, all the dead fish do. Maybe we can teach this to kids in history class, to 'counterbalance' seeing An Inconvenient Truth that they were shown a few minutes earlier in science class. All joking aside, I am not a fan of trying to counterbalance nutty statements from one side of the political spectrum with even nuttier statements from the other side of the spectrum. This is not a healthy way for society to make decisions. Eventually, we are left to choose between 2 extreme lunatic positions. I think we have a duty to point out inaccurate and misleading statements, even if they support our political positions. When I go out looking for information about the effect CO2 has on climate, I don't appreciate being mislead about the cause and effect relationship between CO2 and warming that the ice core data presents and I don't appreciate being lied to about the correlation between solar activity and global cooling. To me, it is absolutely insane that anyone can support this stuff. Regards, Kai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dapra" To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:18 PM Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle > March 19 > > If we are to believe the Independent it looks like someone is > playing fast and loose with the truth. (Did anyone note the pro forma use > of the pejorative "right-wing" Washington think-tank to describe the > George C Marshall Institute?) I have no views either way on the GCM > Institute. > > Pollution blocking the sun -- well it's only a hypothesis. How > much pollution is produced by volcanoes and forest fires as compared to > that of humans? We humans could well be more puny than we like to think > we are. > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > > At 09:14 AM 3/19/07 -0600, Kai Kaletsch wrote: >>Friends, >> >>it looks like the film The Great Global Warming Swindle [see >>http://video.google.com:80/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831 ] may >>itself be a fraudumentary [ see for example >>http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article235595 6.ece >>] >> >>I was wondering why all the data presented stopped in the 1980s. It turns >>out that was when the data sets were discredited. It turns out that >>neither solar activity or CO2 do a very good job of explaining the cooling >>observed after 1940 [ see >>http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/aerosol.gif ]. One hypothesis is >>that pollution was blocking the sun. --- So much for the assertion that we >>puny humans can't possibly affect the climate. >> >>Regards, >>Kai > > [edit] > > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From radproject at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 20 15:54:35 2007 From: radproject at sbcglobal.net (stewart farber) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:54:35 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] New from ISIS -- Further Construction at Arak 40 MW Heavy Water Reactor in Iran Message-ID: <00b301c76b31$fec39ab0$0202a8c0@YOUR7C60552B9E> Hello all, On the subject of proliferation and "new reactor construction" some may be interested in the following email from The Institute for Science and International Security [ISIS] along with a link to the full report. Sounds vaguely familiar. Advanced research reactors, hot cells, Pu extraction, Iran [vs. Iraq circa 1981]. The email below notes: "Iranian officials have stated that the reactor is scheduled to be completed in 2009, although this schedule could be delayed for a few years due to problems in building and starting up such a reactor." Shades of Osirak in 1981? Iraq's earlier plans to bring its Osirak advanced "research" reactor [which was supplied to Iraq by the French government in the late 1970s in a deal brokered by Jacques Chirac for 900 million $US and oil concessions] into operation, and to begin to extract similar amounts of Pu each year [using hot cells supplied and approved by Germany at the time] ran into a "start-up" problem of sorts when it was destroyed by a precision F-16 bombing raid [ just before the unit began operations] by Israel using laser guided bombs. Will the past be prologue? Not likely. If anyone is interested in the history of the Osirak reactor, the politics, and the planning and execution of its destruction by Israel see the book: "First Strike--The exclusive story of how Israel foiled Iraq's attempt to get the bomb", Shelomoh Nakdimon, Summit Books, 1987; ISBN: 0-671-63871-8 Most analysts today feel Israel would not act unilaterally in the present case. The situation is different in regards to the dispersed Iranian nuclear program and the fact several superpowers are already involved in substantial initiatives to stop Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. For example, from the Christian Science Monitor: http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0818/p06s01-wome.html Stewart Farber, MS Public Health Consulting Scientist Farber Technical Services 1285 Wood Ave. Bridgeport, CT 06604 [203] 441-8433 [office] [203] 522-2817 [cell] email: radproject at sbcglobal.net =============================== EMAIL FROM ISIS: ----- Original Message ----- From: ISIS Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:46 PM Subject: New from ISIS -- Further Construction at Arak 40 MW Heavy Water Reactor ISIS Imagery Brief: Further Construction at Arak 40 MW Heavy Water Reactor by David Albright and Paul Brannan March 20, 2007 The Institute for Science and International Security ISIS has obtained recent commercial imagery from GeoEye's OrbView-3 satellite of the Arak heavy water reactor and adjacent heavy water production plant in Iran. The imagery from February 25, 2007 shows further construction of buildings adjacent to the reactor vessel. Iran continues to build the 40 MW heavy water reactor at Arak, despite repeated international requests that Iran discontinue this project. Iranian officials have stated that the reactor is scheduled to be completed in 2009, although this schedule could be delayed for a few years due to problems in building and starting up such a reactor. When fully operational, the reactor is estimated to be able to produce about 9 kilograms of weapon-grade plutonium per year, enough for one or two nuclear weapons per year. Iran has told the IAEA that it does not intend to build reprocessing facilities to separate plutonium from this reactor. It did state that it was planning to build hot cells to separate "long-lived radioisotopes," but said that it was having problems obtaining the necessary manipulators and lead glass windows. IAEA investigations into Iran's past reprocessing activities continue, despite decreased cooperation from Iran. View the Full Report at http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iran/ArakConstruction20March2007.pdf For more information contact Paul Brannan or David Albright at 202-547-3633 with any comments or questions. _________________________ Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS) 236 Massachusetts Ave. NE Suite 500 Washington, DC 20002 To unsubscribe/change profile: click here To subscribe: click here -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email list management powered by http://MailerMailer.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.15/728 - Release Date: 3/20/2007 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.15/728 - Release Date: 3/20/2007 From maurysis at peoplepc.com Tue Mar 20 17:59:57 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:59:57 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The sky is falling! In-Reply-To: <7A9B2084CC9CEC45828E829CBF20D638013AB17A@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> References: <7A9B2084CC9CEC45828E829CBF20D638013AB17A@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> Message-ID: <4600676D.5020605@peoplepc.com> Amen, Sir! The sky fell here last Thursday after I made a mistake on Wednesday. I'm taking a series of "observations" from my model (airplane) behavior in order to formulate scientific conclusions about the bees in my backyard and their effects on local climate. Please wait with your breath baited; later you might use the baited breath bubbles for a fishing trip! Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) _____________ Remain watchful: Dew is formed on leaves when the sun shines down on them and makes them perspire. ========================== Flanigan, Floyd wrote: >There is, of course, something to be said for being fore-warned but, it >is the motive of those doling out the warnings which interests me the >most. Are they truly trying to be helpful or just to be 'right'? I could >sit back and predict that every c > ----------------snipped-------------- From sjd at swcp.com Tue Mar 20 21:39:40 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:39:40 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: References: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> March 20 This is a very informative website with a lot of useful and equally informative links. My thanks to Brian Riely for posting this link. It is beginning to look like man-made "global warming" is a fraud and a hoax. It would seem that the earth is in a cycle of warming, and that man-made chemicals have nothing to do with the current warming trend. When you find that the peddlers of global warming are covering up or ignoring the role of water vapor (which is 95% of the gases that cause warming) you can't help but be skeptical -- both of man-made global warming, and skeptical of the honesty of the people pushing it. No flames, please. It's warm enough already. (Har, har.) Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 04:12 PM 3/20/07 -0400, Riely, Brian P. wrote: >Informative article: > >http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html > >Some statement from the above: > >If we are in a global warming crisis today, even the most aggressive and >costly proposals for limiting industrial carbon dioxide emissions would >have a negligible effect on global climate! > >Of the 186 billion tons of CO2 that enter earth's atmosphere each year >from all sources, only 6 billion tons are from human activity. >Approximately 90 billion tons come from biologic activity in earth's >oceans and another 90 billion tons from such sources as volcanoes and >decaying land plants. > >At 368 parts per million CO2 is a minor constituent of earth's >atmosphere-- less than 4/100ths of 1% of all gases present. Compared to >former geologic times, earth's current atmosphere is CO2- impoverished > >During the last 100 years there have been two general cycles of warming >and cooling recorded in the U.S. We are currently in the second warming >cycle. Overall, U.S. temperatures show no significant warming trend over >the last 100 years (1). This has been well - established but not well - >publicized > >In the 1970s concerned environmentalists like Stephen Schneider of the >National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado feared a >return to another ice age due to manmade atmospheric pollution blocking >out the sun. > >Incidentally, earth's temperature and CO2 levels today have reached >levels similar to a previous interglacial cycle of 120,000 - 140,000 >years ago. From beginning to end this cycle lasted about 20,000 years. >This is known as the Eemian Interglacial Period and the earth returned >to a full-fledged ice age immediately afterward. [EDIT] From jk5554 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 21:27:34 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <453309.23615.qm@web32509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This list has become host to extremist "all-or-nothing" viewpoints that paint climate scientists as environmental extremists. I am quite disappointed about this, in light of the fact that, today, in my state of North Carolina, Duke Energy has just passed a milestone on its way to possible new nuclear power construction, and has, in fact, cited limitation of carbon dioxide emissions as one (but not the only) justification for possible new nuclear build. http://www.duke-energy.com/news/releases/2007032001.asp In its news release, Duke Energy said, "The commission ruled that it is appropriate for the utility to pursue the development of the project to preserve nuclear generation as an option for customers. The commission offered its general assurance that such activities are appropriate. "While we continue to review the full order to understand its implications, we are pleased with the ruling and view it as an important show of support for new nuclear generation to meet the growing needs of customers in the Carolinas," said Ellen Ruff, president of Duke Energy Carolinas. Nuclear generation has zero greenhouse gas emissions and is a key part of Duke Energy Carolinas? plan to reduce the carbon footprint of our generation portfolio. .. "We also look forward to continuing to work with the commission and lawmakers in both Carolinas to facilitate construction of this important clean energy source," she said." In addition, in a completely separate story, Anne Lauvergeon of Electricite de France and former CIA director John Deutch have said that the United States should act to cap emissions of greenhouse gases or risk losing global leadership. http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/19/business/green.php .... But here on the list, these utility CEOs and leaders are seen as just a bunch of people "duped" into believing in a "hoax" perpetrated by "left-wing" climatologists like MIT hurricane scientist Dr. Kerry Emanuel: http://bostonreview.net/BR32.1/emanuel.html Dr. Emanuel criticizes the "Green" extremists for their anti-nuclear views. It seems there is no room on this list for a centrist, independent viewpoint between the extremes of the anti-technology, anti-everything viewpoint of Greenpeace (on the Left) and the "let's release_unlimited_CO2_" viewpoint of Sen. James Inhofe (on the Right). A political climate is dangerous when it allows no room between extremes. ~Ruth Sponsler http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather From gary at pageturners.com Tue Mar 20 22:09:10 2007 From: gary at pageturners.com (Gary Damschen) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:09:10 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Solar Activity and Arctic Temperatures Message-ID: <000401c76b66$52c2c1c0$f8484540$@com> All, Since I was treated to a series of polemics, pro and con, the last time I asked about the science behind anthropogenic global warming claims, I have refrained from further posts. However, with the recent warming threads, I would like to ask for comment regarding the theory posited at http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm I would appreciate it if we could refrain from ad hominem attacks on Dr. Spencer and/or his theory this time, particularly attacks on his education, funding sources, level of dis/belief in anthropogenic causes of warming, etc. If his theory and data are credible, I don't see that any of those things matter, anyway. So, I'm hoping for well-reasoned responses regarding the potential validity of his theory and his presented data, particularly with respect to how well it does or doesn't support his position regarding the claimed "settled"ness of climate change research and where he thinks research should be focused. Thanks, Gary From maurysis at peoplepc.com Wed Mar 21 02:33:54 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 01:33:54 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <453309.23615.qm@web32509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <453309.23615.qm@web32509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4600DFE2.9040508@peoplepc.com> Hi Ruth, I cannot agree that this List "...paints climate scientists as environmental extremists" Many of us do so paint climate scientists who insist that the science of AGW is closed, no longer open to debate, and no longer amenable to contrary evidence and who laugh at our supposed ignorance. There was great enjoyment reading your post by Dr Emanuel to encourage moderation until reaching the latter portion which included a gratuitous cheap shot at Inhofe as being a scientific illiterate. Perhaps Inhofe is, but it is only with greatest difficulty that most of us can debate without someplace expressing feelings. Emanuel showed himself to be no exception. Most professional politicians are, in my opinion, not well informed about science. I regard a few of them to be notable exceptions such as Inhofe and Domenici. I'm well aware that others do not share my impression of Inhofe. These two politicians at least make some effort to listen and learn; which is more than can be said for most members of the House and the Senate. Look at Gore's movie product of his so-called study of the issues. I feel that Dr. Emanuel fails an attempt to promote moderation. If you would have the most serious, complete, and most scholarly scientific work that I have encountered yet regarding anthropogenic global warming, please see: EIRScience CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc. If you read this synthesis of available data. you will see that Dr. Jaworowski did not lightly reach the title of this paper. It is an extraordinarily thorough scientific document. If you would have moderation, see the Jaworowski paper. Best regards, Maury&Dog (Maury Siskel, maurysis at peoplepc.com) ======================= Ruth Sponsler wrote: >This list has become host to extremist >"all-or-nothing" viewpoints that paint climate >scientists as environmental extremists. > >I am quite disappointed about this, in light of the >fact that, today, in my state of North Carolina, Duke >Energy has just passed a milestone on its way to >possible new nuclear power construction, and has, in >fact, cited limitation of carbon dioxide emissions as >one (but not the only) justification for possible new >nuclear build. > >http://www.duke-energy.com/news/releases/2007032001.asp > >In its news release, Duke Energy said, >"The commission ruled that it is appropriate for the >utility to pursue the development of the project to >preserve nuclear generation as an option for >customers. The commission offered its general >assurance that such activities are appropriate. > >"While we continue to review the full order to >understand its implications, we are pleased with the >ruling and view it as an important show of support for >new nuclear generation to meet the growing needs of >customers in the Carolinas," said Ellen Ruff, >president of Duke Energy Carolinas. > >Nuclear generation has zero greenhouse gas emissions >and is a key part of Duke Energy Carolinas? plan to >reduce the carbon footprint of our generation >portfolio. > >.. "We also look forward to continuing to work with >the commission and lawmakers in both Carolinas to >facilitate construction of this important clean energy >source," she said." > >In addition, in a completely separate story, Anne >Lauvergeon of Electricite de France and former CIA >director John Deutch have said that the United States >should act to cap emissions of greenhouse gases or >risk losing global leadership. > >http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/19/business/green.php >.... > >But here on the list, these utility CEOs and leaders >are seen as just a bunch of people "duped" into >believing in a "hoax" perpetrated by "left-wing" >climatologists like MIT hurricane scientist Dr. Kerry >Emanuel: > >http://bostonreview.net/BR32.1/emanuel.html > >Dr. Emanuel criticizes the "Green" extremists for >their anti-nuclear views. > >It seems there is no room on this list for a centrist, >independent viewpoint between the extremes of the >anti-technology, anti-everything viewpoint of >Greenpeace (on the Left) and the "let's >release_unlimited_CO2_" viewpoint of Sen. James Inhofe >(on the Right). > >A political climate is dangerous when it allows no >room between extremes. > > >~Ruth Sponsler >http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast >with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. >http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > > From maurysis at peoplepc.com Wed Mar 21 05:39:16 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 04:39:16 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] 'Bacterial radioresistance' Message-ID: <46010B54.6050301@peoplepc.com> March 21, 2007 Researchers Uncover Protection Mechanism Of Radiation-resistant Bacterium Science Daily ? Results of a recent study titled ?Protein Oxidation Implicated as the Primary Determinant of Bacterial Radioresistance,? will be published in the March 20 edition of PLoS Biology. The study, headed by Michael J. Daly, Ph.D., associate professor at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences (USU), Department of Pathology, shows that the ability of the bacterium Deinococcus radiodurans to endure and survive enormous levels of ionizing radiation (X-rays and gamma-rays) relies on a powerful mechanism that protects proteins from oxidative damage during irradiation. Citation: Daly MJ, Gaidamakova EK, Matrosova VY, Vasilenko A, Zhai M, et al. (2007) Protein oxidation implicated as the primary determinant of bacterial radioresistance. PLoS Biol 5(4): e92. doi:10.1371/journal.pbio.0050092. From Andrew.Scott at amedd.army.mil Tue Mar 20 13:25:39 2007 From: Andrew.Scott at amedd.army.mil (Scott, Andrew L MAJ WRAMC-Wash DC) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:25:39 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Patient Dose during Lymphoscintigraphy using Tc-99m sulfur colloid Message-ID: <81F2F1043B799F47B6A4EFCF6F88F82A019C4538@AMEDMLNARMC134> ALL, Has anyone performed, and would be willing to share, a dose calculation for patients undergoing lymphoscintigraphy for rectal/colorectal cancer to localize the sentinal lymph node using Tc-99m sulfur colloid? I have information pertaining to breast cancer studies. Thanks for any relevant information. Andrew L. Scott Chief, Operations Branch Health Physics Office, WRAMC Office: 202-356-0061 DSN: 642-0061 Fax: 202-356-0086 From Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com Wed Mar 21 07:14:32 2007 From: Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com (Flanigan, Floyd) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:14:32 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <453309.23615.qm@web32509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7A9B2084CC9CEC45828E829CBF20D638013AB17B@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> Ruth, I am sorry to hear that we have come across as such. The issue, however, is not an all or nothing. It is truth. The truth is the truth. When someone tries to garner support from the scientific community (us) to support anything which can be clearly exposed as untrue, we respond accordingly. Although part and parcel of our employment is, in many cases, based on regulatory limit enforcement, the majority on this list have posted at one time or another that the limits for exposure are set far too low. This is, in its self, professional suicide in the long run for some, but it's the TRUTH. So on the subject of global warming, we may appear to be taking an extreme point of view, but in reality, we are simply supporting the truth. Building new nuclear power plants is a good idea with or without the carbon dioxide piece. Cost per kwhr alone supports it not to mention the hydrogen production which will be put to good use in the near future. Please don't lose faith in us Ruth. We are whiney, crotchety, silly and at times cruel ... but the one thing you can count on is that we will seek the right thing over self promotion on almost every occasion. Floyd W. Flanigan B.S.Nuc.H.P. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Ruth Sponsler Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:28 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism This list has become host to extremist "all-or-nothing" viewpoints that paint climate scientists as environmental extremists. I am quite disappointed about this, in light of the fact that, today, in my state of North Carolina, Duke Energy has just passed a milestone on its way to possible new nuclear power construction, and has, in fact, cited limitation of carbon dioxide emissions as one (but not the only) justification for possible new nuclear build. http://www.duke-energy.com/news/releases/2007032001.asp In its news release, Duke Energy said, "The commission ruled that it is appropriate for the utility to pursue the development of the project to preserve nuclear generation as an option for customers. The commission offered its general assurance that such activities are appropriate. "While we continue to review the full order to understand its implications, we are pleased with the ruling and view it as an important show of support for new nuclear generation to meet the growing needs of customers in the Carolinas," said Ellen Ruff, president of Duke Energy Carolinas. Nuclear generation has zero greenhouse gas emissions and is a key part of Duke Energy Carolinas' plan to reduce the carbon footprint of our generation portfolio. .. "We also look forward to continuing to work with the commission and lawmakers in both Carolinas to facilitate construction of this important clean energy source," she said." In addition, in a completely separate story, Anne Lauvergeon of Electricite de France and former CIA director John Deutch have said that the United States should act to cap emissions of greenhouse gases or risk losing global leadership. http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/19/business/green.php .... But here on the list, these utility CEOs and leaders are seen as just a bunch of people "duped" into believing in a "hoax" perpetrated by "left-wing" climatologists like MIT hurricane scientist Dr. Kerry Emanuel: http://bostonreview.net/BR32.1/emanuel.html Dr. Emanuel criticizes the "Green" extremists for their anti-nuclear views. It seems there is no room on this list for a centrist, independent viewpoint between the extremes of the anti-technology, anti-everything viewpoint of Greenpeace (on the Left) and the "let's release_unlimited_CO2_" viewpoint of Sen. James Inhofe (on the Right). A political climate is dangerous when it allows no room between extremes. ~Ruth Sponsler http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com Wed Mar 21 08:20:52 2007 From: Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com (Flanigan, Floyd) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 08:20:52 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The sky is falling! In-Reply-To: <4600676D.5020605@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <7A9B2084CC9CEC45828E829CBF20D638013AB17D@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> The sky fell here as well a couple of weeks ago in the form of 23 inches of snow. I've no idea why they refer to this as the 'Midwest'. The northern border of my state touches Canada for crying out loud. I took a few snow days. Not because I couldn't make it in to the office. That would have been easy. I just decided to take advantage of the chance to participate in it all rather than observing for a change. I, my Wife and our Jack Russell Terrier (Odd Job the eight pound fury) took several walks while the snow fell, out to the park and around the town and its many beautiful parks. The wind was near calm and the temperature was quite bearable and under these conditions, the whole of it all was refreshing. All things which normally stand out became muted by the alabaster blanket and the things which normally go unnoticed became wondrous and majestic. I was, in a word, recharged. I hope both of you have had a chance to do similar things of late. If not, I hope the opportunity presents its self soon. When it does, my advice would be, join in. I had forgotten why I do all I do. You get wrapped up thinking it's for the cars and the houses and the toys and the prestige. Then you realize you got into this line because you believed in something and you wanted to watch over it ... watch it grow ... ensure it was around for your kids to enjoy. Yup ... The sky falls now and again. But it's people like us who tell people why it fell. And then we figure out how to put it back. It's amazing ... when you get to the truth of the matter ... a great number of us on this line are environmentalists at heart. We've seen the strip mines and oil fields and we support a better way. And yet we are the ones the self-proclaimed 'tree huggers' focus on more often than not. Isn't it ironic? So ... keep your chin tucked and your left jab out there and keep fighting the good fight. I know I will. And let truth dictate direction. Floyd ________________________________ From: Maury Siskel [mailto:maurysis at peoplepc.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:00 PM To: Flanigan, Floyd Cc: jjcohen at prodigy.net; radsafe Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The sky is falling! Amen, Sir! The sky fell here last Thursday after I made a mistake on Wednesday. I'm taking a series of "observations" from my model (airplane) behavior in order to formulate scientific conclusions about the bees in my backyard and their effects on local climate. Please wait with your breath baited; later you might use the baited breath bubbles for a fishing trip! Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) _____________ Remain watchful: Dew is formed on leaves when the sun shines down on them and makes them perspire. ========================== Flanigan, Floyd wrote: There is, of course, something to be said for being fore-warned but, it is the motive of those doling out the warnings which interests me the most. Are they truly trying to be helpful or just to be 'right'? I could sit back and predict that every c ----------------snipped-------------- From jk5554 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 08:24:10 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 06:24:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <4600DFE2.9040508@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <567454.11815.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have enough general education from college to know about "evaluating sources," "EIR Review" in which this article is published is associated with Lyndon LaRouche, who is on the fringe of politics. http://www.larouchepub.com/ I really like Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski's articles on ionizing radiation and nuclear energy. However, there is a much better outlet for these articles than LaRouche Publications. Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a climatologist. I am not either. I tend to respect the opinions of climatologists like Dr. Kerry Emanuel, whom I cited in another mail. Let me make a note on another climatologist in the news lately. I believe that Dr. James Hansen has gone to extremes on the Left in his testimony before Congress. I can't support James Hansen's ideas and accusations. There is a difference between believing that certain climatologists like Hansen have strayed too far to the left...and believing in sites like http://www.larouchepub.com/ or http://www.junkscience.com/ Going back to choosing sources - I believe it's very important to note what legitimate, science-directed agencies like NOAA and the European Space Agency are finding in their research: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2007/feb/feb07.html http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM1DUQ08ZE_index_1.html#subhead1 As I've said before, it's important to be careful about extremes. The climate situation has certainly brought out the extremes both on the Left and the Right. ~Ruth Sponsler ===== > If you would have the most serious, complete, and > most scholarly > scientific work that I have encountered yet > regarding anthropogenic > global warming, please see: > > EIRScience > CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time > by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc. > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From lboing at anl.gov Wed Mar 21 10:59:24 2007 From: lboing at anl.gov (Boing, Lawrence E.) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:59:24 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Training requirements for Decommissioning Message-ID: <637FE1FE13221C4F8BFC590A42B8478946ED99@NE-EXCH.ne.anl.gov> Looking for any other 'equivalents' of the DOE "Decommissioning Competencies" requirement standard - in this case its DOE-STD-1166-2003 - that others are using out there in decommissioning space to ensure staff are properly qualified to oversee decommissioning work. Thanks. Larry Boing lboing at anl.gov Lawrence E. (Larry) Boing Argonne National Laboratory 9700 South Cass Avenue Argonne, IL 60439 http://www.dd.anl.gov/ http://www.orau.gov/ddsc/ From maurysis at peoplepc.com Wed Mar 21 12:31:10 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:31:10 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <567454.11815.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <567454.11815.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46016BDE.5000507@peoplepc.com> Sadly we retreat once more into the abyss of who funded or published the research and so on irrespective of the content of the paper. Perhaps for some, it is more important to be published in Science, Nature, or the NYTimes than to be concerned about the validity of content and the past soiled editorial records of these esteemed journals. The premier concerns of scientific research remain what problem(s) were put, how the research was done, how the data were analyzed, and what conclusions were drawn. I don't know what genre of scientist Jaworowski might be. One can judge for themselves from the bio below assuming (as I have) that it is not a fabrication. Even disregarding the defining work that he did on the health effects of Chernobyl, this referenced paper will speak for itself if one reviews it. The content of the paper, however, along with past work of the man should say much more than labels and other scarcely relevant political characteristics. Jaworowski bio furnished with the paper: "Zbigniew Jaworowski is a multidisciplinary scientist, now a senior advisor at the Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection in Warsaw. In the winter of 1957-58, he measured the concentration of CO2 in the atmospheric air at Spitsbergen. From 1972 to 1991, he investigated the history of the pollution of the global atmosphere, measuring the dust preserved in 17 glaciers: in the Tatra Mountains in Poland, in the Arctic, Antarctic, Alaska, Norway, the Alps, the Himalayas, the Ruwenzori Mountains in Uganda, and the Peruvian Andes. He has published many papers on climate, most of them concerning the CO2 measurements in ice cores. Two of his papers on climate appear on the website of 21st Century Science & Technology magazine, www.21stcenturysciencetech.com." Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) =================================== Ruth Sponsler wrote: > I have enough general education from college to know > about "evaluating sources," > > "EIR Review" in which this article is published is > associated with Lyndon LaRouche, who is on the fringe > of politics. > > http://www.larouchepub.com/ > > I really like Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski's articles on > ionizing radiation and nuclear energy. > > However, there is a much better outlet for these articles than > LaRouche Publications. > > Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a climatologist. I am not either. > > I tend to respect the opinions of climatologists like Dr. Kerry > Emanuel, whom I cited in another mail. > > Let me make a note on another climatologist in the news lately. I > believe that Dr. James Hansen has gone to extremes on the Left in his > testimony before Congress. I can't support James Hansen's ideas and > accusations. > > There is a difference between believing that certain > climatologists like Hansen have strayed too far to the left...and > believing in sites like > http://www.larouchepub.com/ or > http://www.junkscience.com/ > > Going back to choosing sources - I believe it's very important to note > what legitimate, science-directed > agencies like NOAA and the European Space Agency are finding in their > research: > > http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2007/feb/feb07.html > > http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM1DUQ08ZE_index_1.html#subhead1 > > As I've said before, it's important to be careful about extremes. The > climate situation has certainly > brought out the extremes both on the Left and the Right. > > ~Ruth Sponsler > > ===== > >> If you would have the most serious, complete, and most scholarly >> scientific work that I have encountered yet regarding anthropogenic >> global warming, please see: >> >> EIRScience >> CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time >> by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc. > From chaosforthefuture at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 11:32:32 2007 From: chaosforthefuture at yahoo.com (Peter Collopy) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards Message-ID: <914629.79151.qm@web61213.mail.yahoo.com> Here at RPI some enterprizing students are engaged in a design project to provide an interlock for access to our accelerator's target room. In an effort to resolve one issue with the design I am looking to identify any ANSI standard or similar standard that specifically addresses the design/safety components of any interlock used for accelerators, multicurie irradiation facilties, etc.. So any info is appreciated If you wish to reply to me directly use my RPI address at collop at rpi.edu Thanks in advance Pete C. Peter Collopy, CIH, CHP, CSP Director, Entropy Control Chaos for the Future 154 Third Street Troy, NY 12180 518.271.1420 --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. From sandyfl at cox.net Wed Mar 21 12:08:32 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:08:32 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards In-Reply-To: <914629.79151.qm@web61213.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6B9@gdses.corp.gds.com> Pete, This may be of use: N43.1 Radiological Safety in the Design & Operations of Particle Accelerators (Standard is under development.) Working Group Chair: Scott Walker, James Liu N43.3 General Radiation Safety Standard for Installations Using Non-Medical X-ray and Sealed Gamma Ray Sources, Energies up to 10 MeV (Standard under revision.) Working Group Chair: Scott Schwahn ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Peter Collopy Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:33 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards Here at RPI some enterprizing students are engaged in a design project to provide an interlock for access to our accelerator's target room. In an effort to resolve one issue with the design I am looking to identify any ANSI standard or similar standard that specifically addresses the design/safety components of any interlock used for accelerators, multicurie irradiation facilties, etc.. So any info is appreciated If you wish to reply to me directly use my RPI address at collop at rpi.edu Thanks in advance Pete C. Peter Collopy, CIH, CHP, CSP Director, Entropy Control Chaos for the Future 154 Third Street Troy, NY 12180 518.271.1420 --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jk5554 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 12:42:49 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <46016BDE.5000507@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <20070321174249.39347.qmail@web32512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dr. Jaworowski has 17 papers listed on a PubMed search. All of those papers concern measurement of radiation, radiation protection, and related topics. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed Only one paper is remotely relevant to climatology. It concerns 226Ra in contemporary and fossil snow. Given the pubs I found, I consider Dr. Jaworowski to be an authority on topics concerning radiation, Chernobyl etc., but I do not consider him an authority on climate. I am sort of wondering why Dr. Jaworowski decided to write a controversial article on climate change after writing some pretty decent papers in the area of his expertise, radiation. On the other side of the spectrum, Al Gore is showing his weakness in the area, by supporting Amory Lovins' silly ideas, rather than large-scale sources of CO2-free energy. Al Gore certainly isn't a climatologist. There are excellent critiques of Al Gore from fellow bloggers at NEI Nuclear Notes: http://neinuclearnotes.blogspot.com/search/label/Al%20Gore Sincerely - Ruth Sponsler --- Maury Siskel wrote: > Sadly we retreat once more into the abyss of who > funded or published the > research and so on irrespective of the content of > the paper. > > Perhaps for some, it is more important to be > published in Science, > Nature, or the NYTimes than to be concerned about > the validity of > content and the past soiled editorial records of > these esteemed > journals. The premier concerns of scientific > research remain what > problem(s) were put, how the research was done, how > the data were > analyzed, and what conclusions were drawn. > > I don't know what genre of scientist Jaworowski > might be. One can judge > for themselves from the bio below assuming (as I > have) that it is not a > fabrication. Even disregarding the defining work > that he did on the > health effects of Chernobyl, this referenced paper > will speak for itself > if one reviews it. The content of the paper, > however, along with past > work of the man should say much more than labels and > other scarcely > relevant political characteristics. > > Jaworowski bio furnished with the paper: > > "Zbigniew Jaworowski is a multidisciplinary > scientist, > now a senior advisor at the Central Laboratory for > Radiological Protection in Warsaw. In the winter of > 1957-58, he measured the concentration of CO2 in the > atmospheric air at Spitsbergen. From 1972 to 1991, > he > investigated the history of the pollution of the > global > atmosphere, measuring the dust preserved in 17 > glaciers: > in the Tatra Mountains in Poland, in the Arctic, > Antarctic, Alaska, Norway, the Alps, the Himalayas, > the Ruwenzori Mountains in Uganda, and the Peruvian > Andes. He has published many papers on climate, most > of them concerning the CO2 measurements in ice > cores. > Two of his papers on climate appear on the website > of > 21st Century Science & Technology magazine, > www.21stcenturysciencetech.com." > > Best, > Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) > =================================== > > Ruth Sponsler wrote: > > > I have enough general education from college to > know > > about "evaluating sources," > > > > "EIR Review" in which this article is published is > > associated with Lyndon LaRouche, who is on the > fringe > > of politics. > > > > http://www.larouchepub.com/ > > > > I really like Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski's articles > on > > ionizing radiation and nuclear energy. > > > > However, there is a much better outlet for these > articles than > > LaRouche Publications. > > > > Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a climatologist. I > am not either. > > > > I tend to respect the opinions of climatologists > like Dr. Kerry > > Emanuel, whom I cited in another mail. > > > > Let me make a note on another climatologist in the > news lately. I > > believe that Dr. James Hansen has gone to extremes > on the Left in his > > testimony before Congress. I can't support James > Hansen's ideas and > > accusations. > > > > There is a difference between believing that > certain > > climatologists like Hansen have strayed too far to > the left...and > > believing in sites like > > http://www.larouchepub.com/ or > > http://www.junkscience.com/ > > > > Going back to choosing sources - I believe it's > very important to note > > what legitimate, science-directed > > agencies like NOAA and the European Space Agency > are finding in their > > research: > > > > > http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2007/feb/feb07.html > > > > > http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM1DUQ08ZE_index_1.html#subhead1 > > > > As I've said before, it's important to be careful > about extremes. The > > climate situation has certainly > > brought out the extremes both on the Left and the > Right. > > > > ~Ruth Sponsler > > > > ===== > > > >> If you would have the most serious, complete, and > most scholarly > >> scientific work that I have encountered yet > regarding anthropogenic > >> global warming, please see: > >> > >> EIRScience > >> CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time > >> by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 From sandyfl at cox.net Wed Mar 21 12:54:25 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:54:25 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards In-Reply-To: <914629.79151.qm@web61213.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6BB@gdses.corp.gds.com> Pete, Some additional references that may be helpful (many of those in working group process are revisions to existing standards). N43.5 Radiation Safety for the Design of Radiographic & Radioscopic Industrial X-ray Equipment (Standard published 2005) K. Dieter Markert , John Taschner N43.7 Safe Design & Use of Self-contained, Dry Source Storage Gamma Irradiators (Category I) (Standard is under development.) Eric Beers N43.9 Radiological Safety for the Design & Construction of Apparatus for Gamma Radiography (Standard is under development.) R. D. (Donny) Dicharry N43.10 Safe Design & Use of Panoramic, Wet Source Storage Gamma Irradiators (Category IV) and Panoramic, Dry Source Storage Gamma Irradiators (Category II) (Standard distributed with a July 2001 HPS Newsletter as ANSI/HPS N43.10-2001.) Eric Beers, Vincent Foerst N43.11 Safe Operating Practice for Industrial X-ray Radiographic Equipment (Standard is under development.) William Morris, Maj. William Hoak ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Peter Collopy Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:33 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards Here at RPI some enterprizing students are engaged in a design project to provide an interlock for access to our accelerator's target room. In an effort to resolve one issue with the design I am looking to identify any ANSI standard or similar standard that specifically addresses the design/safety components of any interlock used for accelerators, multicurie irradiation facilties, etc.. So any info is appreciated If you wish to reply to me directly use my RPI address at collop at rpi.edu Thanks in advance Pete C. Peter Collopy, CIH, CHP, CSP Director, Entropy Control Chaos for the Future 154 Third Street Troy, NY 12180 518.271.1420 --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From hflong at pacbell.net Wed Mar 21 13:09:45 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] 'Bacterial radioresistance' In-Reply-To: <46010B54.6050301@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <20070321180945.51166.qmail@web83502.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> If biologic radiation defenses could be stimulated by some supplement (medicine) as it is by low dose radiation (~ 10 rem) it could be most valuable. Pollycove and Feinendigan have shown better longevity and cancer resistance with radiation hormesis. They attribute it to stimulation of biologic defenses. These bacteria seem to have developed it better, suggesting research for a mutation-muting radiation antioxidant. More exact detail of the mechanism should be forthcoming from this line of inquiry. Howard Long Maury Siskel wrote: March 21, 2007 Researchers Uncover Protection Mechanism Of Radiation-resistant Bacterium Science Daily ? Results of a recent study titled ?Protein Oxidation Implicated as the Primary Determinant of Bacterial Radioresistance,? will be published in the March 20 edition of PLoS Biology. The study, headed by Michael J. Daly, Ph.D., associate professor at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences (USU), Department of Pathology, shows that the ability of the bacterium Deinococcus radiodurans to endure and survive enormous levels of ionizing radiation (X-rays and gamma-rays) relies on a powerful mechanism that protects proteins from oxidative damage during irradiation. Citation: Daly MJ, Gaidamakova EK, Matrosova VY, Vasilenko A, Zhai M, et al. (2007) Protein oxidation implicated as the primary determinant of bacterial radioresistance. PLoS Biol 5(4): e92. doi:10.1371/journal.pbio.0050092. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From ronningen at nscl.msu.edu Wed Mar 21 14:14:50 2007 From: ronningen at nscl.msu.edu (Reg Ronningen) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:14:50 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards Message-ID: Pete, For those interested in this topic, please note there is a course titled "System Safety and Safety Systems for Accelerators" on the program of the next US Particle Accelerator School (the second week of June 4 - 15, 2007, Lansing, MI). The instructor is Kelly Mahoney (Jefferson Lab). For details, please see http://uspas.fnal.gov/ Reg Reginald M. Ronningen, Ph.D. Senior Physicist/Senior Liaison Physicist National Superconducting Cyclotron Laboratory Michigan State University N104 1 Cyclotron East Lansing, MI 48824-1321 USA Internet: Ronningen at nscl.msu.edu Telephone: (517) 333-6378 Fax: (517) 353-5967 -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Peter Collopy Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:33 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards Here at RPI some enterprizing students are engaged in a design project to provide an interlock for access to our accelerator's target room. In an effort to resolve one issue with the design I am looking to identify any ANSI standard or similar standard that specifically addresses the design/safety components of any interlock used for accelerators, multicurie irradiation facilties, etc.. So any info is appreciated If you wish to reply to me directly use my RPI address at collop at rpi.edu Thanks in advance Pete C. Peter Collopy, CIH, CHP, CSP Director, Entropy Control Chaos for the Future 154 Third Street Troy, NY 12180 518.271.1420 From terryj at iit.edu Wed Mar 21 14:44:03 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 14:44:03 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott Message-ID: Hi All, Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? Thanks, Jeff From ryoss at mcw.edu Wed Mar 21 15:05:03 2007 From: ryoss at mcw.edu (Yoss, Robert) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:05:03 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Authorities want to survey city radiation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3261933EB7678946A50C0314A1AAC07B0D91A21C@MCWMAIL.mcwcorp.net> Authorities want to survey city radiation By Mimi Hall, USA TODAY Homeland Security and Energy department leaders urge cities vulnerable to terrorism to undergo an inventory of all radioactive material within city limits, so authorities can detect "dirty bombs" terrorists might plant. Maps of each city would be created by a Department of Energy team that uses helicopters, small planes and ultrasensitive radiation detectors to pinpoint areas where radioactive materials are legitimately stored, such as hospitals and laboratories. With a baseline survey in hand, authorities could quickly check for new sources of radiation if intelligence suggests a terrorist is assembling a dirty bomb, in which radioactive material is mixed with explosives. Any new radiation blips on the survey could be flagged as potential rogues and investigated. Baseline surveys also could be used to guide cleanup crews to heavily radiated areas if a bomb is set off. The effort to convince dozens of cities to use federal anti-terrorism grant money to pay for the surveys will begin Thursday when officials from Homeland Security and the Energy Department's National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) travel to Illinois to meet with emergency responders from Chicago and Springfield. "We think this is a good idea" for all high-risk cities, says Vayl Oxford, head of Homeland Security's Domestic Nuclear Detection Office. So far, only New York City has decided to pay for a survey. That survey, done in 2005, cost $800,000. Last September, the Government Accountability Office took Homeland Security and Energy to task for failing to take responsibility for letting other cities know the surveys could be done. "There are significant benefits to conducting aerial background radiation surveys of U.S. cities," the GAO reported to Congress. The report found that neither Energy, which has the technical expertise and equipment to conduct the surveys, nor Homeland Security, which is responsible for protecting against terrorist attacks, accepted responsibility for getting the job done. Officials from both departments say they are now working together on the project. Debbie Wilber, director of the NNSA's Office of Emergency Response, says the survey team has helicopters and small planes outfitted with detectors. The team also uses handheld and backpack detectors and other mobile detectors that can be placed in cars and vans. The detectors are so sensitive that they can pick up small traces of radioactive iodine ingested by people being treated for thyroid cancer. Such minute traces can be filtered out if necessary. There are potential public health benefits to the surveys as well. In 2005, the New York survey found 80 unexpected "hot spots." Most posed no danger, but a public park on Staten Island that once was the site of an industrial plant had soil contaminated with "large quantities of radium," the GAO reported. The New York Police Department closed the park. Find this article at: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-03-15-radiation_N.htm?csp=34 Bob Yoss Radiation Safety Coordinator FMLH/MCW From ograabe at ucdavis.edu Wed Mar 21 16:08:07 2007 From: ograabe at ucdavis.edu (Otto G. Raabe) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:08:07 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200703212008.l2LK8UKL007517@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> At 11:44 AM 3/21/2007, Jeff Terry wrote: >Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? ***************************************************** March 21, 2007 Helen Caldicott, whom I have met personally and heard speak at an antinuclear event, has dedicated her life to attacking all nuclear technology. In her autobiography ("A Desperate Passion"), which I have read, she says she was frightened by a book called "On the Beach" by Neville Shute which she read when a teenager, and her whole career has been an extension that experience. Although she obtained a medical degree in Australia in her youth, she only attempted to practice medicine for a short time before embarking on her personal lifetime career to rid the world of all things nuclear. (She is about 70 years old.) She will twist any issue and exaggerate any risk to accomplish her purpose. But she has no training in and only very limited knowledge of radiobiology, radiation safety, nuclear physics, radiochemistry, or environmental biology. She claims that radiation risk is a medical issue and she can speak about it because she has a medical degree. I believe that HER REAL PURPOSE IS TO GET ATTENTION FOR HER ANTI-NUCLEAR CAUSE BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE! She will go to any extreme, make any scary claim, and pretend any authority of knowledge to accomplish her purpose. I do not believe that she is a reliable source of information about radiation risks or the possible medical effects of radiation. Otto ********************************************** Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP Center for Health & the Environment University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 *********************************************** From terryj at iit.edu Wed Mar 21 15:22:18 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:22:18 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: <200703212008.l2LK8UKL007517@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> References: <200703212008.l2LK8UKL007517@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Message-ID: <77C31CC0-AC4E-43C9-9640-C6149A020E16@iit.edu> Hi Otto, Thanks, I was going to be on a TV show with her in Chicago but they changed the segment so it will just be her with no counterpoint. So unfortunately, I won't have a chance to rebut what she has to say. Thanks, Jeff On Mar 21, 2007, at 4:08 PM, Otto G. Raabe wrote: > At 11:44 AM 3/21/2007, Jeff Terry wrote: >> Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? > ***************************************************** > March 21, 2007 > > Helen Caldicott, whom I have met personally and heard speak at an > antinuclear event, has dedicated her life to attacking all nuclear > technology. In her autobiography ("A Desperate Passion"), which I > have read, she says she was frightened by a book called "On the > Beach" by Neville Shute which she read when a teenager, and her > whole career has been an extension that experience. Although she > obtained a medical degree in Australia in her youth, she only > attempted to practice medicine for a short time before embarking on > her personal lifetime career to rid the world of all things > nuclear. (She is about 70 years old.) She will twist any issue and > exaggerate any risk to accomplish her purpose. But she has no > training in and only very limited knowledge of radiobiology, > radiation safety, nuclear physics, radiochemistry, or environmental > biology. She claims that radiation risk is a medical issue and she > can speak about it because she has a medical degree. I believe that > HER REAL PURPOSE IS TO GET ATTENTION FOR HER ANTI-NUCLEAR CAUSE BY > ANY MEANS POSSIBLE! She will go to any extreme, make any scary > claim, and pretend any authority of knowledge to accomplish her > purpose. I do not believe that she is a reliable source of > information about radiation risks or the possible medical effects > of radiation. > > Otto > > ********************************************** > Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP > Center for Health & the Environment > University of California > One Shields Avenue > Davis, CA 95616 > E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu > Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 > *********************************************** From maurysis at peoplepc.com Wed Mar 21 16:54:41 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:54:41 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Authorities want to survey city radiation In-Reply-To: <3261933EB7678946A50C0314A1AAC07B0D91A21C@MCWMAIL.mcwcorp.net> References: <3261933EB7678946A50C0314A1AAC07B0D91A21C@MCWMAIL.mcwcorp.net> Message-ID: <4601A9A1.2070400@peoplepc.com> 'Waste not -- want not': The motto of absolutely no government agency whatsoever. Sigh ........... Maury&Dog ============================== Yoss, Robert wrote: >Authorities want to survey city radiation > >By Mimi Hall, USA TODAY > >Homeland Security and Energy department leaders urge cities vulnerable to terrorism to undergo an inventory of all radioactive material within city limits, so authorities can detect "dirty bombs" terrorists might >plant. > >Maps of each city would be created by a Department of Energy team that uses helicopters, small planes and ultrasensitive radiation detectors to >-----------------snipped------------ > From jk5554 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 17:18:05 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: <77C31CC0-AC4E-43C9-9640-C6149A020E16@iit.edu> Message-ID: <70510.18400.qm@web32507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Jeff - There is a good set of rebuttals of Helen Caldicott at this link: http://search.blogger.com/?q=helen+caldicott+blogurl%3Aneinuclearnotes.blogspot.com&btnG=Search+Blogs&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&x=55&y=4&ui=blg I believe that you have a case to request an equal-time rebuttal. The fact that the show intends to feature *only* Helen Caldicott, with *no* counterpoint demonstrates anti-nuclear bias on the part of the media. ~Ruth Sponsler http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/ --- Jeff Terry wrote: > Hi Otto, > > Thanks, > > I was going to be on a TV show with her in Chicago > but they changed > the segment so it will just be her with no > counterpoint. So > unfortunately, I won't have a chance to rebut what > she has to say. > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > On Mar 21, 2007, at 4:08 PM, Otto G. Raabe wrote: > > > At 11:44 AM 3/21/2007, Jeff Terry wrote: > >> Could someone give me some background information > on Helen Caldicott? > > > ***************************************************** > > March 21, 2007 > > > > Helen Caldicott, whom I have met personally and > heard speak at an > > antinuclear event, has dedicated her life to > attacking all nuclear > > technology. In her autobiography ("A Desperate > Passion"), which I > > have read, she says she was frightened by a book > called "On the > > Beach" by Neville Shute which she read when a > teenager, and her > > whole career has been an extension that > experience. Although she > > obtained a medical degree in Australia in her > youth, she only > > attempted to practice medicine for a short time > before embarking on > > her personal lifetime career to rid the world of > all things > > nuclear. (She is about 70 years old.) She will > twist any issue and > > exaggerate any risk to accomplish her purpose. But > she has no > > training in and only very limited knowledge of > radiobiology, > > radiation safety, nuclear physics, radiochemistry, > or environmental > > biology. She claims that radiation risk is a > medical issue and she > > can speak about it because she has a medical > degree. I believe that > > HER REAL PURPOSE IS TO GET ATTENTION FOR HER > ANTI-NUCLEAR CAUSE BY > > ANY MEANS POSSIBLE! She will go to any extreme, > make any scary > > claim, and pretend any authority of knowledge to > accomplish her > > purpose. I do not believe that she is a reliable > source of > > information about radiation risks or the possible > medical effects > > of radiation. > > > > Otto > > > > ********************************************** > > Prof. Otto G. Raabe, Ph.D., CHP > > Center for Health & the Environment > > University of California > > One Shields Avenue > > Davis, CA 95616 > > E-Mail: ograabe at ucdavis.edu > > Phone: (530) 752-7754 FAX: (530) 758-6140 > > *********************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front From terryj at iit.edu Wed Mar 21 18:10:44 2007 From: terryj at iit.edu (Jeff Terry) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:10:44 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: <70510.18400.qm@web32507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <70510.18400.qm@web32507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Ruth, I will pester them. The Public Broadcasting Service is usually better in that regard. I think that it was more about timing rather than bias in this case. Whenever a Chicago station wants a speaker, they start with the usual cast of characters. The usual players don't have nuclear groups so couldn't provide anyone. By the time that they got around to IIT is was Tuesday. On Tuesday, I was in D. C. at the University NERI meeting. I should learn not to turn off my phone in those meetings. Wow, was that an interesting meeting as an aside. The TV people finally contacted me today so I started preparing and was just leaving for the studio when they called and cancelled saying that it was too late to get me on. Maybe next time. Jeff On Mar 21, 2007, at 5:18 PM, Ruth Sponsler wrote: > Hello Jeff - > > There is a good set of rebuttals of Helen Caldicott at > this link: > > http://search.blogger.com/?q=helen+caldicott+blogurl% > 3Aneinuclearnotes.blogspot.com&btnG=Search > +Blogs&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&x=55&y=4&ui=blg > > I believe that you have a case to request an > equal-time rebuttal. > > The fact that the show intends to feature *only* Helen > Caldicott, with *no* counterpoint demonstrates > anti-nuclear bias on the part of the media. > > ~Ruth Sponsler > http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/ > From radproject at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 21 18:34:49 2007 From: radproject at sbcglobal.net (stewart farber) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:34:49 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott [ Ombudsman access ] References: <70510.18400.qm@web32507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007101c76c11$8486f770$0202a8c0@YOUR7C60552B9E> Hi Jeff [and others wanting to attempt to ensure balanced coverage of any issue], Keep in mind that every "news" outlet has someone on staff designated by their organization to serve as their "ombudsman". Don't be reluctant to call and discuss your concerns with this individual. I have found such a discussion often results in the opportunity to express an alternate point of view as with space for an "op-ed" column for print media, or other reply possibilities for broadcast media such as TV or radio. If any particular media outlet regulated by the FCC fails to correct errors of fact or emphasis, or to provide balanced coverage, this failing can be brought up at the annual review of its license by the FCC of a TV or radio station being allowed to broadcast [at least that was how it was handled some years ago] when it solicits public input on the stations performance during the previous period of its operation. Stewart Farber, MS Public Health Consulting Scientist Farber Technical Services 1285 Wood Ave. Bridgeport, CT 06604 [203] 441-8433 [office] email: radproject at sbcglobal.net ===================================== Jeff Terry wrote: Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott > Hi Ruth, > > I will pester them. The Public Broadcasting Service is usually better in > that regard. I think that it was more about timing rather than bias in > this case. > > Whenever a Chicago station wants a speaker, they start with the usual > cast of characters. The usual players don't have nuclear groups so > couldn't provide anyone. By the time that they got around to IIT is was > Tuesday. > > On Tuesday, I was in D. C. at the University NERI meeting. I should learn > not to turn off my phone in those meetings. Wow, was that an interesting > meeting as an aside. > > The TV people finally contacted me today so I started preparing and was > just leaving for the studio when they called and cancelled saying that it > was too late to get me on. > > Maybe next time. > > Jeff > > On Mar 21, 2007, at 5:18 PM, Ruth Sponsler wrote: > >> Hello Jeff - >> >> There is a good set of rebuttals of Helen Caldicott at >> this link: >> >> http://search.blogger.com/?q=helen+caldicott+blogurl% >> 3Aneinuclearnotes.blogspot.com&btnG=Search >> +Blogs&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&x=55&y=4&ui=blg >> >> I believe that you have a case to request an >> equal-time rebuttal. >> >> The fact that the show intends to feature *only* Helen >> Caldicott, with *no* counterpoint demonstrates >> anti-nuclear bias on the part of the media. >> >> ~Ruth Sponsler >> http://wesupportlee.blogspot.com/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 3/21/2007 From tom.odou at unlv.edu Wed Mar 21 18:46:10 2007 From: tom.odou at unlv.edu (tom.odou at unlv.edu) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:46:10 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RANDAM Scintillation counter In-Reply-To: <007101c76c11$8486f770$0202a8c0@YOUR7C60552B9E> Message-ID: We have a RANDAM scintillation counter model 918-4, it also has some writing on top (SC-4). Does anyone have a manual for this device? Thanks, Thomas J. O'Dou, CHP Radiation Laboratory Director Harry Reid Center for Environmental Studies University of Nevada Las Vegas 702-895-5540 702-985-5547 (cell) From hise at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 21 18:48:43 2007 From: hise at sbcglobal.net (Ed Hiserodt) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:48:43 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <027701c76c13$763cc120$6420a8c0@pumpconbsflye1> Hello Jeff -- If you like John Gofman, you'll love Helen Caldicott. She was one of Petr Beckmann's most unfavorite persons. In fact he mentions her over 100 times in Access to Energy while he was still alive. She wrote "Nuclear Madness" and was the founder of Physicians for Social Responsibility. As a member of the US Peace Council she visited the USSR on several occasions where there was much mutual fawning. Some of the quotes Beckmann attributes to her include: "The difference between nuclear reactors and bombs is mostly psychological." "The Russians are OK to work with...the US has many military bases around the world whereas Russia does not." "Uranium is thalidomide forever." And my personal favorite: "The nuclear arms race is a case of missile envy stemming from an inadequate male sexual complex on the part of world leaders." Don't think I'd want a "counterpoint" if I were her. Ed Hiserodt -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Jeff Terry Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:44 PM To: radsafe Radsafe Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott Hi All, Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? Thanks, Jeff _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 19:14:09 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] MIT: Lack of fuel may limit US nuclear power expansion Message-ID: <387932.92572.qm@web81606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Public release date: 21-Mar-2007 Contact: Elizabeth Thomson thomson at mit.edu 617-258-5402 Massachusetts Institute of Technology MIT: Lack of fuel may limit US nuclear power expansion CAMBRIDGE, Mass.--Limited supplies of fuel for nuclear power plants may thwart the renewed and growing interest in nuclear energy in the United States and other nations, says an MIT expert on the industry. Over the past 20 years, safety concerns dampened all aspects of development of nuclear energy: No new reactors were ordered and there was investment neither in new uranium mines nor in building facilities to produce fuel for existing reactors. Instead, the industry lived off commercial and government inventories, which are now nearly gone. worldwide, uranium production meets only about 65 percent of current reactor requirements. That shortage of uranium and of processing facilities worldwide leaves a gap between the potential increase in demand for nuclear energy and the ability to supply fuel for it, said Dr. Thomas Neff, a research affiliate at MIT's Center for International Studies. ?Just as large numbers of new reactors are being planned, we are only starting to emerge from 20 years of underinvestment in the production capacity for the nuclear fuel to operate them. There has been a nuclear industry myopia; they didn't take a long-term view,? Neff said. For example, only a few years ago uranium inventories were being sold at $10 per pound; the current price is $85 per pound. Neff has been giving a series of talks at industry meetings and investment conferences around the world about the nature of the fuel supply problem and its implications for the so-called ?nuclear renaissance,? pointing out both the sharply rising cost of nuclear fuel and the lack of capacity to produce it. Currently, much of the uranium used by the United States is coming from mines in such countries as Australia, Canada, Namibia, and, most recently, Kazakhstan. Small amounts are mined in the western United States, but the United States is largely reliant on overseas supplies. The United States also relies for half its fuel on Russia under a ?swords to ploughshares? deal that Neff originated in 1991. This deal is converting about 20,000 Russian nuclear weapons to fuel for U.S. nuclear power plants, but it ends in 2013, leaving a substantial supply gap for the United States. Further, China, India, and even Russia have plans for massive deployments of nuclear power and are trying to lock up supplies from countries on which the United States has traditionally relied. As a result, the United States could be the ?last one to buy, and it could pay the highest prices, if it can get uranium at all,? Neff said. ?The take-home message is that if we're going to increase use of nuclear power, we need massive new investments in capacity to mine uranium and facilities to process it.? Mined uranium comes in several forms, or isotopes. For starting a nuclear chain reaction in a reactor, the only important isotope is uranium-235, which accounts for JUST 7 out of 1000 atoms in the mined product. To fuel a nuclear reactor, the concentration of uranium-235 has to be increased to 40 to 50 out of 1000 atoms. This is done by separating isotopes in an enrichment plant to achieve the higher concentration. As Neff points out, reactor operators could increase the amount of fuel made from a given amount of natural uranium by buying more enrichment services to recover more uranium-235 atoms. Current enrichment capacity is enough to recover only about 4 out of 7 uranium-235 atoms. Limited uranium supplies could be stretched if industry could recover 5 or 6 of these atoms, but there is not enough processing capacity worldwide to do so. ### --------------------------------- --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. From jaro-10kbq at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 21 19:22:34 2007 From: jaro-10kbq at sympatico.ca (Jaro) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:22:34 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] MIT: Lack of fuel may limit US nuclear power expansion In-Reply-To: <387932.92572.qm@web81606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Further on this subject..... http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/business/story.html?id=553ebd57-1 cc0-49b7-b059-c15c70a34da4 Uranium is a hot commodity survey: Expenditures UP. More than 350 projects under way across Canada LYNN MOORE, The Gazette, Tuesday, March 20, 2007 Uranium is re-emerging as a star mineral commodity, according to the latest survey of mineral exploration and mine development expenditures compiled by Natural Resources Canada. Uranium-related expenditures doubled from 2005, reaching $190 million in 2006, with more than 350 projects under way across Canada, according to the survey. And indications are that exploration expenditures for all mineral and metal commodities will approach $2 billion in 2007. The Survey of Mineral Exploration, Deposit Appraisal and Mine Complex Development Expenditures reviewed 2006 preliminary estimates and 2007 spending intentions of about 734 project operators. In 2006, total expenditures reached $1.7 billion, up 32 per cent from $1.3 billion in 2005. Sustained high commodity prices and a favourable investment climate contributed to those total expenditures surpassing $1 billion for four consecutive years, the report said. Nickel prices increased by more than 150 per cent in 2006, zinc by more than 125 per cent and uranium by nearly 100 per cent. Gold and silver were up by nearly 20 per cent and 43 per cent, respectively. Spending intentions for operations in Quebec during 2007 are pegged at just over $293 million. Preliminary estimates for 2006 spending is about $260 million, up from $205 million in 2005. Junior exploration companies continue to be a major force in the sector, the survey found. Total expenditures for junior project operators have increased from $14 million in 1999 to $1.1 billion in 2006. And juniors are now responsible for more than 60 per cent of the total exploration and deposit appraisal expenditures. Expenditures for each commodity group, except coal, increased over 2005. In 2006, all jurisdictions, except Manitoba, saw increases in expenditures, with the largest gains being experienced in Saskatchewan - the leading jurisdiction for uranium expenditures - British Columbia and Quebec. lmoore at thegazette.canwest.com ===================================== -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl]On Behalf Of ROY HERREN Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:14 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] MIT: Lack of fuel may limit US nuclear power expansion Public release date: 21-Mar-2007 Contact: Elizabeth Thomson thomson at mit.edu 617-258-5402 Massachusetts Institute of Technology MIT: Lack of fuel may limit US nuclear power expansion CAMBRIDGE, Mass.--Limited supplies of fuel for nuclear power plants may thwart the renewed and growing interest in nuclear energy in the United States and other nations, says an MIT expert on the industry. Over the past 20 years, safety concerns dampened all aspects of development of nuclear energy: No new reactors were ordered and there was investment neither in new uranium mines nor in building facilities to produce fuel for existing reactors. Instead, the industry lived off commercial and government inventories, which are now nearly gone. worldwide, uranium production meets only about 65 percent of current reactor requirements. That shortage of uranium and of processing facilities worldwide leaves a gap between the potential increase in demand for nuclear energy and the ability to supply fuel for it, said Dr. Thomas Neff, a research affiliate at MIT's Center for International Studies. ?Just as large numbers of new reactors are being planned, we are only starting to emerge from 20 years of underinvestment in the production capacity for the nuclear fuel to operate them. There has been a nuclear industry myopia; they didn't take a long-term view,? Neff said. For example, only a few years ago uranium inventories were being sold at $10 per pound; the current price is $85 per pound. Neff has been giving a series of talks at industry meetings and investment conferences around the world about the nature of the fuel supply problem and its implications for the so-called ?nuclear renaissance,? pointing out both the sharply rising cost of nuclear fuel and the lack of capacity to produce it. Currently, much of the uranium used by the United States is coming from mines in such countries as Australia, Canada, Namibia, and, most recently, Kazakhstan. Small amounts are mined in the western United States, but the United States is largely reliant on overseas supplies. The United States also relies for half its fuel on Russia under a ?swords to ploughshares? deal that Neff originated in 1991. This deal is converting about 20,000 Russian nuclear weapons to fuel for U.S. nuclear power plants, but it ends in 2013, leaving a substantial supply gap for the United States. Further, China, India, and even Russia have plans for massive deployments of nuclear power and are trying to lock up supplies from countries on which the United States has traditionally relied. As a result, the United States could be the ?last one to buy, and it could pay the highest prices, if it can get uranium at all,? Neff said. ?The take-home message is that if we're going to increase use of nuclear power, we need massive new investments in capacity to mine uranium and facilities to process it.? Mined uranium comes in several forms, or isotopes. For starting a nuclear chain reaction in a reactor, the only important isotope is uranium-235, which accounts for JUST 7 out of 1000 atoms in the mined product. To fuel a nuclear reactor, the concentration of uranium-235 has to be increased to 40 to 50 out of 1000 atoms. This is done by separating isotopes in an enrichment plant to achieve the higher concentration. As Neff points out, reactor operators could increase the amount of fuel made from a given amount of natural uranium by buying more enrichment services to recover more uranium-235 atoms. Current enrichment capacity is enough to recover only about 4 out of 7 uranium-235 atoms. Limited uranium supplies could be stretched if industry could recover 5 or 6 of these atoms, but there is not enough processing capacity worldwide to do so. ### --------------------------------- --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 3/21/2007 7:52 AM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.16/729 - Release Date: 3/21/2007 7:52 AM From sjd at swcp.com Wed Mar 21 21:48:58 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:48:58 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <453309.23615.qm@web32509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070321194426.009fee30@mail.swcp.com> March 21 Ruth Sponsler wrote: "This list has become host to extremist 'all-or-nothing' viewpoints that paint climate scientists as environmental extremists." Also (referring to Duke Energy and two other parties): "But here on the list, these utility CEOs and leaders are seen as just a bunch of people 'duped' into believing in a 'hoax' perpetrated by 'left-wing' climatologists like MIT hurricane scientist Dr. Kerry Emanuel: http://bostonreview.net/BR32.1/emanuel.html Dr. Emanuel criticizes the 'Green' extremists for their anti-nuclear views. "It seems there is no room on this list for a centrist, independent viewpoint between the extremes of the anti-technology, anti-everything viewpoint of Greenpeace (on the Left) and the 'let's release_unlimited_CO2_' viewpoint of Sen. James Inhofe (on the Right). A political climate is dangerous when it allows no room between extremes." (Did Sen. Inhofe actually say this, or is this the hyperbole of one of his detractors?) In another posting, Ruth wrote: "As I've said before, it's important to be careful about extremes. The climate situation has certainly brought out the extremes both on the Left and the Right." I think I have read all the messages in these global warming threads and I don't see anyone painting climate scientists as extremists. Regardless of who has said what about whom, since you Ruth think RADSAFE has become host to a bunch of 'extremist viewpoints,' what do you think is a non-extremist viewpoint? Or, to use your expression, what is a "centrist, independent viewpoint"? And "independent" of what? Industrialists? Greens? Democrats? Republicans? Orthodox science? Un-orthodox science? Independent of data? "Independent" of what? Please justify your position from both the scientific and philosophical perspective. As far as labeling people is concerned, I don't recall hearing that anyone had been 'duped' into anything, nor do I recall anyone being called a 'left-wing' climatologist. I can recall Dr. Kerry Emanuel calling Sen. Inhofe a scientific illiterate, though. Isn't waving around the labels right and left wing a waste of time anyway? It proves nothing and accomplishes nothing (unless someone thinks being divisive is salutary, and I certainly hope no one here thinks divisiveness is salutary). Instead of trying to decide who is on what wing, let's talk about the science, and about what is known to be true. This link < http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html> was posted yesterday. According to the material on this page (or links within it), the role of water vapor has been utterly ignored by global warming proponents (GWPs). This is despite the fact that water vapor accounts for some 95% of greenhouse gases, and that only about one percent of water vapor is anthropogenic. At the same time, GWPs are moaning and groaning about CO2. According to the above link, 186 billion tons of CO2 are produced every year. Six billion of these tons are man-made a mere three percent. The other 97% comes from natural biological processes in the ocean, and from decaying plant matter. As can plainly be seen, the human contribution to greenhouse gases is insignificant. In light of all this, would it be correct to say that blaming global warming on man-made greenhouse gases is an "extremist" position? What do you think? Ruth? Anyone? As far as being "careful about extremes" is concerned, what is this supposed to mean? As a hypothetical proposal, let's assume it is eventually and conclusively shown that humans can do nothing either way to influence global warming. Would that be an extreme position, and if so, how would we go about being careful about it? Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com From sjd at swcp.com Wed Mar 21 22:01:17 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:01:17 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070321195914.009f6a50@mail.swcp.com> March 21 Obtain a copy of "The War Against the Atom" by Samuel McCracken (Basic Books) and check the index for page numbers. McCracken has quite a bit to say about Caldicott, based on his having observed her in action. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 02:44 PM 3/21/07 -0500, Jeff Terry wrote: >Hi All, > >Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? > >Thanks, > >Jeff From HHedge at GeoSyntec.com Wed Mar 21 21:26:19 2007 From: HHedge at GeoSyntec.com (HHedge at GeoSyntec.com) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 22:26:19 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Interlocks - Any relevant ANSI Standards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A15A863AF0A494E83F66199C7D1ECF32BDB25@exchange-01.GeoSyntec.net> The IAEA has also published some relevant documents on interlocks. Radiation Protection in the Design of Radiotherapy Facilities, Safety Reports Series No. 47 Radiological Safety Aspects of the Operation of Proton Accelerators, Technical Reports Series No. 283 Radiological Safety Aspects of the Operation of Electron Linear Accelerators, Technical Reports Series No. 188 Unfortunately, their website only has Safety Reports Series No. 47 available online. Harold Hedge, RRPT Radiological Laboratory Manager GSM Consultancy (M) Sdn. Bhd. Tel: +60 5 3233137 From sjd at swcp.com Wed Mar 21 22:45:15 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:45:15 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <453309.23615.qm@web32509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070321204335.009f3aa0@mail.swcp.com> March 21 Ruth Sponsler wrote: "In addition, in a completely separate story, Anne Lauvergeon of Electricite de France and former CIA director John Deutch have said that the United States should act to cap emissions of greenhouse gases or risk losing global leadership. http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/19/business/green.php ...." She also appeared to scoff at Jaworowski for not being a climatologist ("Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a climatologist."). What are Deutch's credentials as a climatologist? The above linked article (from the International Herald Tribune) calls Deutch an "energy specialist" who is now a professor at MIT. WHAT is an "energy specialist" and why did the IHT conveniently forget to tell us what Deutch is professing? The article also says, "Deutch advocated an additional tax of about $1 a gallon, or 26 cents a liter, on gasoline, diesel fuel and other petroleum products in the United States, coupled with a tightening of fuel economy standards for U.S. car manufacturers, to encourage fuel efficiency and damp demand, while recognizing that such a move would be politically difficult." Note that he only wants to beat up on US taxpayers and US car manufacturers. What's with that? No one else in the world drives cars or manufactures them? Furthermore, Anne Lauvergeon of Electricite de France did not endorse capping emissions, nor did she peddle that nonsense about the US "losing global leadership." That was all from the "energy specialist." Tacked on at the end of the article we read this: "While Deutch placed great expectations on carbon capture and sequestration technology to reduce emissions from coal-fired power stations, notably in China, a parallel report to the Trilateral Commission by a French energy executive, Anne Lauvergeon, cast doubt on that solution. "Lauvergeon, chief executive of Areva, which builds nuclear power stations, said the capture and storage of carbon emitted through the burning of fossil fuels was too often presented as a miracle solution. "This technology would 'not play a significant role in the limitation of carbon emissions for half a century,' she wrote." If anything, Lauvergeon is opposing Deutch's proposals. (Is she an extremist too, or is Deutch the extremist for only wanting to tax US citizens and only wanting to push around US auto manufacturers?) Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com From jk5554 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 22:19:16 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070321204335.009f3aa0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <414605.6594.qm@web32504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Correction. It was lowly ol' me who wrote that "Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a > climatologist." Something got lost in the quotations. --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 21 > > Ruth Sponsler wrote: > > "In addition, in a completely separate story, Anne > Lauvergeon of > Electricite de France and former CIA director John > Deutch have said that > the United States should act to cap emissions of > greenhouse gases or risk > losing global > leadership. > http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/19/business/green.php > ...." > > She also appeared to scoff at Jaworowski > for not being a > climatologist ("Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a > climatologist."). > > What are Deutch's credentials as a > climatologist? > > The above linked article (from the > International Herald Tribune) > calls Deutch an "energy specialist" who is now a > professor at MIT. WHAT is > an "energy specialist" and why did the IHT > conveniently forget to tell us > what Deutch is professing? > > The article also says, "Deutch advocated an > additional tax of > about $1 a gallon, or 26 cents a liter, on gasoline, > diesel fuel and other > petroleum products in the United States, coupled > with a tightening of fuel > economy standards for U.S. car manufacturers, to > encourage fuel efficiency > and damp demand, while recognizing that such a move > would be politically > difficult." > > Note that he only wants to beat up on US > taxpayers and US car > manufacturers. What's with that? No one else in > the world drives cars or > manufactures them? > > Furthermore, Anne Lauvergeon of Electricite > de France did not > endorse capping emissions, nor did she peddle that > nonsense about the US > "losing global leadership." That was all from the > "energy specialist." > > Tacked on at the end of the article we read > this: > > "While Deutch placed great expectations on > carbon capture and > sequestration technology to reduce emissions from > coal-fired power > stations, notably in China, a parallel report to the > Trilateral Commission > by a French energy executive, Anne Lauvergeon, cast > doubt on that solution. > > "Lauvergeon, chief executive of Areva, which builds > nuclear power stations, > said the capture and storage of carbon emitted > through the burning of > fossil fuels was too often presented as a miracle > solution. > > "This technology would 'not play a significant role > in the limitation of > carbon emissions for half a century,' she wrote." > > If anything, Lauvergeon is opposing > Deutch's proposals. (Is she > an extremist too, or is Deutch the extremist for > only wanting to tax US > citizens and only wanting to push around US auto > manufacturers?) > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From jk5554 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 22:43:06 2007 From: jk5554 at yahoo.com (Ruth Sponsler) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070321204335.009f3aa0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <456220.95637.qm@web32515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Anne Lauvergeon is a person whom I respect. I tried to communicate my respect for her but obviously did not do that very well. I agree with Anne Lauvergeon that carbon sequestration is an unproven technology. John Deutch is a former director of the U.S. CIA. The level of rhetoric on this list has become so intolerable that I have about *had it.* People are tied to a belief that the climate scientists who are doing work relating to AGW have a hidden anti-industrial agenda. I repeatedly emphasized Dr. Kerry Emanuel's endorsement of nuclear energfy in "Phaeton's Reins" in an _attempt to disprove this notion_, at least among the more considerate and intelligent climatologists. In fact, it is the Amory Lovins's and Greenpeaces of the world who have hijacked the work of climate scientists to promote their windmill/solar pabnel agenda. Al Gore is not helping because he is tying himself to Amory Lovins' agenda. Yet, instead of acknowledging ANY of my criticisms of Al Gore and the "environmental movement," there is nothing but criticism. It's obvious that my "ideological purity" isn't good enough for this list because I have not endorsed "global warming skeptic" articles that appear at sites like http://www.junkscience.com and http://www.larouchepub.com rather than at mainstream science sites like http://www.noaa.gov/ . As a result, I'm unsubscribing from Radsafe. Sincerely, Ruth Sponsler ============================================== Once again, here are Dr. Kerry Emanuel's words on the politics of climate change (mentioning nuclear energy): ===== QUOTE "Especially in the United States, the political debate about global climate change became polarized along the conservative?liberal axis some decades ago. Although we take this for granted now, it is not entirely obvious why the chips fell the way they did. One can easily imagine conservatives embracing the notion of climate change in support of actions they might like to see anyway. Conservatives have usually been strong supporters of nuclear power, and few can be happy about our current dependence on foreign oil. The United States is renowned for its technological innovation and should be at an advantage in making money from any global sea change in energy-producing technology: consider the prospect of selling new means of powering vehicles and electrical generation to China?s rapidly expanding economy. But none of this has happened. Paradoxes abound on the political left as well. A meaningful reduction in greenhouse-gas emissions will require a shift in the means of producing energy, as well as conservation measures. But such alternatives as nuclear and wind power are viewed with deep ambivalence by the left. Senator Kennedy, by most measures our most liberal senator, is strongly opposed to a project to develop wind energy near his home in Hyannis, and environmentalists have only just begun to rethink their visceral opposition to nuclear power. Had it not been for green opposition, the United States today might derive most of its electricity from nuclear power, as does France; thus the environmentalists must accept a large measure of responsibility for today?s most critical environmental problem. There are other obstacles to taking a sensible approach to the climate problem. We have preciously few representatives in Congress with a background or interest in science, and some of them display an active contempt for the subject. As long as we continue to elect scientific illiterates like James Inhofe, who believes global warming to be a hoax, we will lack the ability to engage in intelligent debate. Scientists are most effective when they provide sound, impartial advice, but their reputation for impartiality is severely compromised by the shocking lack of political diversity among American academics, who suffer from the kind of group-think that develops in cloistered cultures. Until this profound and well documented intellectual homogeneity changes, scientists will be suspected of constituting a leftist think tank. " END QUOTE ========================== --- Steven Dapra wrote: > March 21 > > Ruth Sponsler wrote: > > "In addition, in a completely separate story, Anne > Lauvergeon of > Electricite de France and former CIA director John > Deutch have said that > the United States should act to cap emissions of > greenhouse gases or risk > losing global > leadership. > http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/19/business/green.php > ...." > > She also appeared to scoff at Jaworowski > for not being a > climatologist ("Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a > climatologist."). > > What are Deutch's credentials as a > climatologist? > > The above linked article (from the > International Herald Tribune) > calls Deutch an "energy specialist" who is now a > professor at MIT. WHAT is > an "energy specialist" and why did the IHT > conveniently forget to tell us > what Deutch is professing? > > The article also says, "Deutch advocated an > additional tax of > about $1 a gallon, or 26 cents a liter, on gasoline, > diesel fuel and other > petroleum products in the United States, coupled > with a tightening of fuel > economy standards for U.S. car manufacturers, to > encourage fuel efficiency > and damp demand, while recognizing that such a move > would be politically > difficult." > > Note that he only wants to beat up on US > taxpayers and US car > manufacturers. What's with that? No one else in > the world drives cars or > manufactures them? > > Furthermore, Anne Lauvergeon of Electricite > de France did not > endorse capping emissions, nor did she peddle that > nonsense about the US > "losing global leadership." That was all from the > "energy specialist." > > Tacked on at the end of the article we read > this: > > "While Deutch placed great expectations on > carbon capture and > sequestration technology to reduce emissions from > coal-fired power > stations, notably in China, a parallel report to the > Trilateral Commission > by a French energy executive, Anne Lauvergeon, cast > doubt on that solution. > > "Lauvergeon, chief executive of Areva, which builds > nuclear power stations, > said the capture and storage of carbon emitted > through the burning of > fossil fuels was too often presented as a miracle > solution. > > "This technology would 'not play a significant role > in the limitation of > carbon emissions for half a century,' she wrote." > > If anything, Lauvergeon is opposing > Deutch's proposals. (Is she > an extremist too, or is Deutch the extremist for > only wanting to tax US > citizens and only wanting to push around US auto > manufacturers?) > > Steven Dapra > sjd at swcp.com > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html From wwebber2004 at comcast.net Thu Mar 22 02:04:19 2007 From: wwebber2004 at comcast.net (Bill) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 03:04:19 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46022A73.7050006@comcast.net> You can find information on just about anyone in the public eye on the wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Caldicott If you don't agree with the data you can correct it. Jeff Terry wrote: > Hi All, > > Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From rhelbig at california.com Thu Mar 22 03:23:43 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:23:43 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott References: <46022A73.7050006@comcast.net> Message-ID: <005e01c76c5e$cce788c0$18435142@roger1> Be careful of the Wikipedia, though, it is not scrupulously accurate ... and yes, you can correct it; I wrote a new Rokke bio and posted it and it disappeared a couple of times and I put it back .. what was there last time was substantially the bio I wrote for him. I doubt that they would let Otto Raabe's incisive comments on Caldicott stand though. They were not neutral. Roger Helbig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" To: "Jeff Terry" Cc: "radsafe Radsafe" Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Helen Caldicott You can find information on just about anyone in the public eye on the wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Caldicott If you don't agree with the data you can correct it. Jeff Terry wrote: > Hi All, > > Could someone give me some background information on Helen Caldicott? > > Thanks, > > Jeff From llowe at senes.ca Thu Mar 22 10:42:31 2007 From: llowe at senes.ca (Leo M. Lowe) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:42:31 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] U.S. NRC Report (Jan 1979) NUREG/DR-0530 - Solubility Classification of Airborne Products from Uranium Ores and Tailings Piles - D. Kalkwarf Message-ID: <200703221543.l2MFhLuA010015@mail99c9.megamailservers.com> Hello, Does anyone know where I can access the above report (or obtain a copy)? Regards, Leo M. Lowe, Ph.D., P.Phys. SENES Consultants Limited llowe at senes.ca www.senes.ca Tel: 905-764-9380 Fax: 905-764-9386 This transmission is intended only for the addressee and may contain PRIVILEGED or CONFIDENTIAL information. Any unauthorized disclosure, use or retention is strictly prohibited. SENES does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in contents or attachments. Information is provided for use "as is" by the addressee. Revised documents must not be represented as SENES work product, without express, written permission of a SENES Director. From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 22 10:53:02 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 08:53:02 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] U.S. NRC Report (Jan 1979) NUREG/DR-0530 - Solubility Classification of Airborne Products from Uranium Ores and Tailings Piles - D. Kalkwarf In-Reply-To: <200703221543.l2MFhLuA010015@mail99c9.megamailservers.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6D7@gdses.corp.gds.com> Leo, Here's a start with a search on the subject: http://gate.kins.re.kr/plsql/nextgen/pk_croref_nav.pr_docu_tgan0?p_uniq_seqn =2000000575&p_srch_word= http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6417974 Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Leo M. Lowe Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:43 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] U.S. NRC Report (Jan 1979) NUREG/DR-0530 - Solubility Classification of Airborne Products from Uranium Ores and Tailings Piles - D. Kalkwarf Hello, Does anyone know where I can access the above report (or obtain a copy)? Regards, Leo M. Lowe, Ph.D., P.Phys. SENES Consultants Limited llowe at senes.ca www.senes.ca Tel: 905-764-9380 Fax: 905-764-9386 This transmission is intended only for the addressee and may contain PRIVILEGED or CONFIDENTIAL information. Any unauthorized disclosure, use or retention is strictly prohibited. SENES does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in contents or attachments. Information is provided for use "as is" by the addressee. Revised documents must not be represented as SENES work product, without express, written permission of a SENES Director. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Thu Mar 22 10:59:47 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:59:47 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] extremism In-Reply-To: <46016BDE.5000507@peoplepc.com> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE7A980D@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> Friends, Zbigniew Jaworowski is one of the relatively few true scientists in the world today. He describes his background in this 2004 statement for Senate hearings. Note also that his ref 1 is to: Jaworowski, Z., Stable lead in fossil ice and bones. Nature, 1968. 217: p. 152-153. His '90s papers on ice records for climate significance include: Jaworowski, Z., T.V. Segalstad, and N. Ono, Do glaciers tell a true atmospheric CO2 story? The Science of the Total Environment, 1992. 114: p. 227-284. and Jaworowski, Z., Ancient atmosphere - validity of ice records. Environ. Sci. & Pollut. Res., 1994. 1(3): p. 161-171. You can see the statement and other refs at http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/ (you can see some of his radiobiology papers on our Rad Sci Health site: http://radscihealth.org/rsh/docs Regards, Jim ============= Statement written for the Hearing before the US Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation Climate Change: Incorrect information on pre-industrial CO2 March 19, 2004 Statement of Prof. Zbigniew Jaworowski Chairman, Scientific Council of Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection Warsaw, Poland "I am a Professor at the Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection (CLOR) in Warsaw, Poland, a governmental institution, involved in environmental studies. CLOR has a "Special Liaison" relationship with the US National Council on Radiological Protection and Measurements (NCRP). In the past, for about ten years, CLOR closely cooperated with the US Environmental Protection Agency, in research on the influence of industry and nuclear explosions on pollution of the global environment and population. I published about 280 scientific papers, among them about 20 on climatic problems. I am the representative of Poland in the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR), and in 1980 - 1982 I was the chairman of this Committee. "For the past 40 years I was involved in glacier studies, using snow and ice as a matrix for reconstruction of history of man-made pollution of the global atmosphere. A part of these studies was related to the climatic issues. Ice core records of CO2 have been widely used as a proof that, due to man's activity the current atmospheric level of CO2 is about 25% higher than in the pre-industrial period. These records became the basic input parameters in the models of the global carbon cycle and a cornerstone of the man-made climatic warming hypothesis. These records do not represent the atmospheric reality, as I will try to demonstrate in my statement. "Relevant Background "In order to study the history of industrial pollution of the global atmosphere, between 1972 and 1980, I organized 11 glacier expeditions, which measured natural and man-made pollutants in contemporary and ancient precipitation, preserved in 17 glaciers in Arctic, Antarctic, Alaska, Norway, the Alps, the Himalayas, the Ruwenzori Mountains in Uganda, the Peruvian Andes and in Tatra Mountains in Poland. I also measured long-term changes of dust in the troposphere and stratosphere, and the lead content in humans living in Europe and elsewhere during the past 5000 years. In 1968 I published the first paper on lead content in glacier ice[1]. Later I demonstrated that in pre-industrial period the total flux of lead into the global atmosphere was higher than in the 20th century, that the atmospheric content of lead is dominated by natural sources, and that the lead level in humans in Medieval Ages was 10 to 100 times higher than in the 20th century. In the 1990s I was working in the Norwegian Polar Research Institute in Oslo, and in the Japanese National Institute of Polar Research in Tokyo. In this period I studied the effects of climatic change on polar regions, and the reliability of glacier studies for estimation of CO2 concentration in the ancient atmosphere." (continued) >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl >[mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Maury Siskel >Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:31 PM >To: Ruth Sponsler >Cc: radsafe >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] extremism > >Sadly we retreat once more into the abyss of who funded or >published the >research and so on irrespective of the content of the paper. > >Perhaps for some, it is more important to be published in Science, >Nature, or the NYTimes than to be concerned about the validity of >content and the past soiled editorial records of these esteemed >journals. The premier concerns of scientific research remain what >problem(s) were put, how the research was done, how the data were >analyzed, and what conclusions were drawn. > >I don't know what genre of scientist Jaworowski might be. One >can judge >for themselves from the bio below assuming (as I have) that it >is not a >fabrication. Even disregarding the defining work that he did on the >health effects of Chernobyl, this referenced paper will speak >for itself >if one reviews it. The content of the paper, however, along with past >work of the man should say much more than labels and other scarcely >relevant political characteristics. > >Jaworowski bio furnished with the paper: > >"Zbigniew Jaworowski is a multidisciplinary scientist, >now a senior advisor at the Central Laboratory for >Radiological Protection in Warsaw. In the winter of >1957-58, he measured the concentration of CO2 in the >atmospheric air at Spitsbergen. From 1972 to 1991, he >investigated the history of the pollution of the global >atmosphere, measuring the dust preserved in 17 glaciers: >in the Tatra Mountains in Poland, in the Arctic, >Antarctic, Alaska, Norway, the Alps, the Himalayas, >the Ruwenzori Mountains in Uganda, and the Peruvian >Andes. He has published many papers on climate, most >of them concerning the CO2 measurements in ice cores. >Two of his papers on climate appear on the website of >21st Century Science & Technology magazine, >www.21stcenturysciencetech.com." > >Best, >Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc.com) >=================================== > >Ruth Sponsler wrote: > >> I have enough general education from college to know >> about "evaluating sources," >> >> "EIR Review" in which this article is published is >> associated with Lyndon LaRouche, who is on the fringe >> of politics. >> >> http://www.larouchepub.com/ >> >> I really like Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski's articles on >> ionizing radiation and nuclear energy. >> >> However, there is a much better outlet for these articles than >> LaRouche Publications. >> >> Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski is not a climatologist. I am not either. >> >> I tend to respect the opinions of climatologists like Dr. Kerry >> Emanuel, whom I cited in another mail. >> >> Let me make a note on another climatologist in the news lately. I >> believe that Dr. James Hansen has gone to extremes on the >Left in his >> testimony before Congress. I can't support James Hansen's ideas and >> accusations. >> >> There is a difference between believing that certain >> climatologists like Hansen have strayed too far to the left...and >> believing in sites like >> http://www.larouchepub.com/ or >> http://www.junkscience.com/ >> >> Going back to choosing sources - I believe it's very >important to note >> what legitimate, science-directed >> agencies like NOAA and the European Space Agency are finding >in their >> research: >> >> http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2007/feb/feb07.html >> >> http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM1DUQ08ZE_index_1.html#subhead1 >> >> As I've said before, it's important to be careful about >extremes. The >> climate situation has certainly >> brought out the extremes both on the Left and the Right. >> >> ~Ruth Sponsler >> >> ===== >> >>> If you would have the most serious, complete, and most scholarly >>> scientific work that I have encountered yet regarding anthropogenic >>> global warming, please see: >>> >>> EIRScience >>> CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time >>> by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc. >> >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and >understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other >settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > From Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk Thu Mar 22 10:10:20 2007 From: Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk (Dawson, Fred Mr) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:10:20 -0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LLRC Radioactive times Message-ID: List members might be interested in the latest Edition of the Radioactive Times from the LLRC http://www.llrc.org/rat/subrat/ratpage2.htm "Radioactive Times for December 2006 is now on the web as a PDF. Look for the Radioactive Times button on the left of the http://www.llrc.org home page. It's largely about Uranium weapons - what we used to call "Depleted Uranium" until the military hit on the idea of concealing the tell-tale isotopic ratio of DU by using natural Uranium. As we now see in this issue, Enriched Uranium is part of the mix now. There is a description of Photoelectron Enhancement of dose - a mechanism which provides a possible explanation of why Uranium appears to be so dangerous despite its low level of radioactivity. It's based on two known characteristics of Uranium - its propensity to bind to DNA and its huge capacity to absorb background gamma rays and re-emit their energy to local tissue. Does this solve the conundrum of why heavy metals are toxic? Will it get its originator a Nobel Prize? Don't hold your breath. Other stories are about * Chernobyl health effects, * CoRWM the Louche, * the equally louche son of CoRWM, * how to detect Uranium in the environment, * how Uranium from Gulf War 2 turned up in air filters near the Atomic Weapons Establishment near London, * philosophical problems with science advice, access to cancer data, * official attacks on ICRP's risk model, * and Chris Busby's Science Wars combat manual, Wolves of Water, which is getting rave reviews from those who have already bought it. This is the story of my life, too!! ; I am all but 30 pages from the end of the book. It is GOOD! ; This is a story that just HAD to be told. " Fred Dawson From Daren.Perrero at illinois.gov Wed Mar 21 17:50:33 2007 From: Daren.Perrero at illinois.gov (Perrero, Daren) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:50:33 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Patient Dose during Lymphoscintigraphy using Tc-99msulfur colloid References: <81F2F1043B799F47B6A4EFCF6F88F82A019C4538@AMEDMLNARMC134> Message-ID: <730E743AFAA26146A2F74AC52A2BEAEA0A3D7F@BEAR.iema.state.il.us> I would appreciate any information you might acquire on this topic as well. If possible would you be willing to summarize any responses you receive for the group? Daren Perrero daren.perrero(a)illinois.gov I'm with the government, I'm here to help you.... the opinions expresses are mine, all mine ________________________________ From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Scott, Andrew L MAJ WRAMC-Wash DC Sent: Tue 3/20/2007 1:25 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Patient Dose during Lymphoscintigraphy using Tc-99msulfur colloid ALL, Has anyone performed, and would be willing to share, a dose calculation for patients undergoing lymphoscintigraphy for rectal/colorectal cancer to localize the sentinal lymph node using Tc-99m sulfur colloid? I have information pertaining to breast cancer studies. Thanks for any relevant information. Andrew L. Scott Chief, Operations Branch Health Physics Office, WRAMC Office: 202-356-0061 DSN: 642-0061 Fax: 202-356-0086 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Rick.Greene at shawgrp.com Thu Mar 22 09:50:07 2007 From: Rick.Greene at shawgrp.com (Greene, Rick) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:50:07 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] I-125 bioassay Message-ID: <87F8E8E2C0DE4840A3C3EB7E6AC5A9620EAE3A@entbtrxmb03.shawgrp.com> I need to set up a thyroid bioassay program for I-125. I'm having trouble finding a neck/thyroid phantom and calibration sources. Any help is appreciated. Rick Rick Greene, CHP Manager, EH&S Shaw Environmental & Infrastructure Technology Applications Group/TDL 304 Directors Drive Knoxville, TN 37923 (865) 694-7313 phone (865) 694-9573 fax www.shawgrp.com ----------------------------------------- ****Internet Email Confidentiality Footer**** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliverthis message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this messageand notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of The Shaw Group Inc. or its subsidiaries shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ______________________________________ The Shaw Group Inc. http://www.shawgrp.com From crispy_bird at yahoo.com Thu Mar 22 11:57:43 2007 From: crispy_bird at yahoo.com (John Jacobus) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <3C6C89A78A164D9C9427C4B98CC236F5@JohnPC> Message-ID: <585690.64249.qm@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> John, Yes, I am aware that we need potassium. My question is do we need K-40 as some believe. --- John R Johnson wrote: > John > > It has nothing to do with K-40. We all need > potassium to live, as I pointed > out recently on Radsafe. > > John > *************** > John R Johnson, PhD > CEO, IDIAS, Inc. > Vancouver, B. C. > Canada > (604) 222-9840 > idias at interchange.ubc.ca > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Jacobus" > To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > ; "John R Johnson" > ; "Jeff Terry" > ; "radsafe" > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:02 PM > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida > pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > > > > Jim, > > Beyond cells, is there any proof to your statement > > regarding K-40? A citation or two would be nice. > > > > --- "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > > wrote: > > > >> Amen John, > >> > >> Not only would you die without potassium, it is > >> fairly well homeostatically controlled. > >> > >> We even know that with just K-39, removing the > K-40, > >> and shielding from external radiation, cells and > >> organisms cease to function. > >> > >> Regards, Jim > >> > >> > >> +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Thu Mar 22 12:11:09 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:11:09 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") In-Reply-To: <585690.64249.qm@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE7A9810@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> John, note that I referred to an experiment in which the low-dose deficiency without K-40 was compensated for with either providing K-40, natural potassium, OR external radiation (I understood that it was thorium sand). It's not the K-40 itself, but K-40 provides a baseline of 0.25-0.40 mSv of 24/365 1/4 radiation, plus cosmic of course, and generally U/Rn and decay products, to provide a minimal level to maintain health (although we do know that people in the lowest-dose natural background areas are less healthy than people in average or natural high-dose areas). That is, K-40 depletion itself isn't detrimental as long as there is sufficient radiation from other sources! Regards, Jim >-----Original Message----- >From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:58 PM >To: John R Johnson; Muckerheide, Jim (CDA); Jeff Terry; radsafe >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida >pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") > >John, >Yes, I am aware that we need potassium. My question >is do we need K-40 as some believe. > >--- John R Johnson wrote: > >> John >> >> It has nothing to do with K-40. We all need >> potassium to live, as I pointed >> out recently on Radsafe. >> >> John >> *************** >> John R Johnson, PhD >> CEO, IDIAS, Inc. >> Vancouver, B. C. >> Canada >> (604) 222-9840 >> idias at interchange.ubc.ca >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Jacobus" >> To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" >> ; "John R Johnson" >> ; "Jeff Terry" >> ; "radsafe" >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:02 PM >> Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida >> pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake") >> >> >> > Jim, >> > Beyond cells, is there any proof to your statement >> > regarding K-40? A citation or two would be nice. >> > >> > --- "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Amen John, >> >> >> >> Not only would you die without potassium, it is >> >> fairly well homeostatically controlled. >> >> >> >> We even know that with just K-39, removing the >> K-40, >> >> and shielding from external radiation, cells and >> >> organisms cease to function. >> >> >> >> Regards, Jim >> >> >> >> >> >> > >+++++++++++++++++++ >"We must face the fact that the United States is neither >omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the >world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the >other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong >or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an >American solution to every world problem." >-- John F. Kennedy > >-- John >John Jacobus, MS >Certified Health Physicist >e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >_____________________ >Be a PS3 game guru. >Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at >Yahoo! Games. >http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 > > From joel.baumbaugh at navy.mil Thu Mar 22 12:20:13 2007 From: joel.baumbaugh at navy.mil (Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:20:13 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Message-ID: <7DB6DF83D2CD9140ADA0622B1A05BF2F048EAA3F@nawespscez02> Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. First a short introduction: My current employer appears to be mandating/authorizing the use of Geiger Mueller (GM) detectors to measure dose rates in Roentgens (the meters read "capital" R, not "r") . As many of you know, a given instrument intended for performing quantitative measurements will respond differently to various energies of a given radiation, and a GM tube's response is quite energy dependent. As the GM's are calibrated with Cs-137 the response to other x-ray/gamma sources (of other energies/strength) can be quite different than what one would measure with an ion chamber - i.e. the energy dependence of the instrument must be known and accounted for in order to make accurate quantitative measurements. A short Discussion: I'm not sure that my employer realizes that by utilizing a GM for measurement of (a wide energy-range of) gamma/x-rays they are creating the potential for overexposure conditions (where in some/many cases one should be utilizing an ion chamber). Exposure vs dose, Bragg-Gray and kerma considerations put aside for now, I was taught to always utilize an Ion Chamber if I REALLY wanted to know the dose-rates (I use a pressurized ion-chamber myself for a wider range of energy response). After all, last I knew, "exposure" was still defined in terms of the amount of ionization charge created in AIR - and I believe that the fundamental SI unit of exposure still corresponds to that amount of x-or gamma radiation who's associated secondary electrons create an ionization charge of on coulomb per kilogram of dry air at STP. Anyone know of a GM that utilizes 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen for a counting gas? So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh Std. Disclaimer... The thoughts, discussion and opinion(s) above are mine and mine only, not that of my employer and, of course, I am in no way asserting/suggesting that my employer is doing anything wrong. This is only a topic for a philosophical Health Physics discussion and I would value your opinion(s) on the matter. From mpatterson at canberra.com Thu Mar 22 12:32:16 2007 From: mpatterson at canberra.com (PATTERSON Melissa) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:32:16 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] I-125 bioassay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rick, I am the In Vivo Systems Product Manager for Canberra. While we don't sell a standalone thyroid phantom, our 2257 and 2257A phantom assemblies include a thyroid position. In fact the neck portion of these phantoms is identical to the front half of the ANSI N44.3 neck phantom. Our phantoms are designed to use a 20 ml liquid scintillation vial source. We offer a mixed gamma calibration source as a standard product. I hope this helps. Please feel free to call me if you have any questions. Sincerely, Melissa Patterson In Vivo Systems Product Manager CANBERRA an AREVA Company 800 Research Parkway Meriden, CT 06450 203 639-2261 -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Greene, Rick Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:50 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] I-125 bioassay I need to set up a thyroid bioassay program for I-125. I'm having trouble finding a neck/thyroid phantom and calibration sources. Any help is appreciated. Rick Rick Greene, CHP Manager, EH&S Shaw Environmental & Infrastructure Technology Applications Group/TDL 304 Directors Drive Knoxville, TN 37923 (865) 694-7313 phone (865) 694-9573 fax www.shawgrp.com ----------------------------------------- ****Internet Email Confidentiality Footer**** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliverthis message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this messageand notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of The Shaw Group Inc. or its subsidiaries shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ______________________________________ The Shaw Group Inc. http://www.shawgrp.com _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Kjell.Johansen at nmcco.com Thu Mar 22 12:50:45 2007 From: Kjell.Johansen at nmcco.com (Johansen, Kjell) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:50:45 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Message-ID: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> In his reply to Ruth Sponsler, Steve Dapra talks about the need to concentrate on the science and not on positions taken by extremists. Steve, next, mentions the lack of focus on water vapor, which he quotes from a website as being the major Greenhouse gas. It is my understanding from meteorology classes that while water vapor acts as a green house gas, the amount of water vapor in the air depends upon the temprature. Increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere traps more heat which in turn generates the water vapor by evaporating liquids. Long story short, without the driving force of carbon dioxide, and other gases such as methane (which has about 16x more forcing power than CO2), there would not be much water vapor to ta act as a greenhouse gas. So, to answer the question " would it be correct to say that blaming global warming on man-made greenhouse gases is an "extremist" position? " I would say NO!!! I find that the climate scientists are doing a pretty good job of describing the cause and effect of global warming. It is a form of reverse hubris to think that humanity can not effect global climate change. The biogeochemical cycles of this planet have some selfcorrecting mechanisms which flow naturally from well known chemical and physical processes. To suddenly (200 years is sudden on the geological time scale) dump large amounts of carbon which has been sequesterd in the earth for millions of years into the atmosphere and expect that the earth's biogeochemical cycles will not be upset is not logical. Try pouring 10 gallons of water into a 1 gallon bucket with only a few holes in it. If you pour fast enough, the flux into the bucket will exceed the flux out of the bucket and the water level will rise. The gas concentrations from the ice cores show tha over a very long time span, higher temperatures are associated with higher CO2 and CH4 concentrations. The models predict higher temperatures in the future. To claim that the models may be wrong and that nothing has to be done ignores the fact that they could be wrong in that they are underestimating the consequences. Therefore, I conclude that the extremist position is the one taken by the person who sits around wanting more conclusive proof before taking any action to lower the consequences of global climate change. Kjell Johansen Whitefish Bay, WI The opinions expressed are my own and are not in any way attributable to my employment. From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 22 13:09:36 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:09:36 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C037E317E@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6E0@gdses.corp.gds.com> Joel, I am in 100% agreement with you and your comments. I assume the "employer" has their reasons for not simply utilizing an ion chamber (you can reply privately). Regards, Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:20 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 22 13:25:42 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:25:42 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C037E31A3@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6E3@gdses.corp.gds.com> Kyell, Interesting article today. Southern Ocean current faces slowdown threat By Michael Byrnes Thu Mar 22, 2:03 AM ET HOBART (Reuters) - The impact of global warming on the vast Southern Ocean around Antarctica is starting to pose a threat to ocean currents that distribute heat around the world, Australian scientists say, citing new deep-water data. Melting ice-sheets and glaciers in Antarctica are releasing fresh water, interfering with the formation of dense "bottom water," which sinks 4-5 kilometers to the ocean floor and helps drive the world's ocean circulation system. A slowdown in the system known as "overturning circulation" would affect the way the ocean, which absorbs 85 percent of atmospheric heat, carries heat around the globe. "If the water gets fresh enough ... then it won't matter how much ice we form, we won't be able to make this water cold and salty enough to sink," said Steve Rintoul, a senior scientist at the Australian government-funded CSIRO Marine Science. "Changes would be felt ... around the globe," said Rintoul, who recently led a multinational team of scientists on an expedition to sample deep-basin water south of Western Australia to the Antarctic. Water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor is formed in polar regions by surface water freezing, which concentrates salt in very cold water beneath the ice. The dense water then sinks. Only a few places around Antarctica and in the northern Atlantic create water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor, making Antarctic "bottom water" crucial to global ocean currents. But the freshening of Antarctic deep water was a sign that the "overturning circulation" system in the world's oceans might be slowing down, Rintoul said, and similar trends are occurring in the North Atlantic. For the so-called Atlantic Conveyor, the surface warm water current meets the Greenland ice sheet then cools and sinks, heading south again and driving the conveyor belt process. But researchers fear increased melting of the Greenland ice sheet risks disrupting the conveyor. If it stops, temperatures in northern Europe would plunge. Rintoul, who has led teams tracking water density around the Antarctic through decades of readings, said his findings add to concerns about a "strangling" of the Southern Ocean by greenhouse gases and global warming. Australian scientists warned last month that waters surrounding Antarctica were also becoming more acidic as they absorbed more carbon dioxide produced by nations burning fossil fuels. Acidification of the ocean is affecting the ability of plankton -- microscopic marine plants, animals and bacteria -- to absorb carbon dioxide, reducing the ocean's ability to sink greenhouse gases to the bottom of the sea. Rintoul said that global warming was also changing wind patterns in the Antarctic region, drawing them south away from the Australian mainland and causing declining rainfall in western and possibly eastern coastal areas. This was contributing to drought in Australia, one of the world's top agricultural producers, he said. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Johansen, Kjell Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:51 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Therefore, I conclude that the extremist position is the one taken by the person who sits around wanting more conclusive proof before taking any action to lower the consequences of global climate change. Kjell Johansen Whitefish Bay, WI From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 22 13:33:05 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:33:05 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Williston-Elin In-Reply-To: <51F5591FCBAC7447BC3BBEF5FEFFBF7B0938C5BF@dohsmailhq07.doh.ad.state.fl.us> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6E4@gdses.corp.gds.com> Reno, You can try contacting the company and they can provide the current service representative: Tel : (011) 702-2227 (011) 702-2228 (011) 702-2229 Fax : (011) 702-1507 Email : williston at jhbmail.co.za Company Profile. Electronic Equipment & Components, Engineers - Electronic Postal Address : P.O. Box 491 Bramley Sandton 2018 Physical Address : 101 Garden Rd Blue Hills Midrand 1685 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Reno_Fabii at doh.state.fl.us Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 7:09 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Williston-Elin We have a Williston-Elin irradiator in need of repair and support. Does anyone know of a US company that will provide service support? Does anyone have a copy of the complete technical manual for the unit? Reno J. Fabii Environmental Specialist II Florida Dept. of Health Bureau of Radiation Control Phone: (407) 297-2096 Ext. 240 Fax: (407) 297-2085 reno_fabii at doh.state.fl.us _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From caspar at aecom.yu.edu Thu Mar 22 13:57:59 2007 From: caspar at aecom.yu.edu (Bob Casparius) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:57:59 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.n et> References: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20070322143838.033d3768@pop.aecom.yu.edu> The National Climate Data Center even says that any increase in water vapor in the atmosphere is due to increases in atmospheric temperature. Therefore, the increased atmospheric temperature must be due to something other than increased water vapor. And if there is increased water vapor in the atmosphere it is due to increased atmospheric temp. The following is from http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html "Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, which is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its concentration is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet is still fairly poorly measured and understood. As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated from ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is warmer, the relative humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is able to 'hold' more water when its warmer), leading to more water vapor in the atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water vapor is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then hold more water vapor and so on and so on. This is referred to as a 'positive feedback loop'. However, huge scientific uncertainty exists in defining the extent and importance of this feedback loop. As water vapor increases in the atmosphere, more of it will eventually also condense into clouds, which are more able to reflect incoming solar radiation (thus allowing less energy to reach the Earth's surface and heat it up). The future monitoring of atmospheric processes involving water vapor will be critical to fully understand the feedbacks in the climate system leading to global climate change. As yet, though the basics of the hydrological cycle are fairly well understood, we have very little comprehension of the complexity of the feedback loops. Also, while we have good atmospheric measurements of other key greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide and methane, we have poor measurements of global water vapor, so it is not certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in recent decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined with balloon data and some in-situ ground measurements indicate generally positive trends in global water vapor." The website: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html That Steven Dapra sites appears to be promoting coal as an energy source, which is another source of CO2 when burned. This makes you wonder if they are not bias in their presentation of global warming. Check out the discussion of strip mining: http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/StripMiner.html Bob At 01:50 PM 3/22/2007, Johansen, Kjell wrote: >In his reply to Ruth Sponsler, Steve Dapra talks about the need to >concentrate on the science and not on positions taken by extremists. >Steve, next, mentions the lack of focus on water vapor, which he quotes >from a website as being the major Greenhouse gas. It is my >understanding from meteorology classes that while water vapor acts as a >green house gas, the amount of water vapor in the air depends upon the >temprature. Increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere traps more heat >which in turn generates the water vapor by evaporating liquids. Long >story short, without the driving force of carbon dioxide, and other >gases such as methane (which has about 16x more forcing power than CO2), >there would not be much water vapor to ta act as a greenhouse gas. So, >to answer the question > >" would it be correct to say that blaming global warming on man-made >greenhouse gases is an "extremist" position? " >I would say NO!!! > >I find that the climate scientists are doing a pretty good job of >describing the cause and effect of global warming. It is a form of >reverse hubris to think that humanity can not effect global climate >change. The biogeochemical cycles of this planet have some >selfcorrecting mechanisms which flow naturally from well known chemical >and physical processes. To suddenly (200 years is sudden on the >geological time scale) dump large amounts of carbon which has been >sequesterd in the earth for millions of years into the atmosphere and >expect that the earth's biogeochemical cycles will not be upset is not >logical. Try pouring 10 gallons of water into a 1 gallon bucket with >only a few holes in it. If you pour fast enough, the flux into the >bucket will exceed the flux out of the bucket and the water level will >rise. The gas concentrations from the ice cores show tha over a very >long time span, higher temperatures are associated with higher CO2 and >CH4 concentrations. The models predict higher temperatures in the >future. To claim that the models may be wrong and that nothing has to >be done ignores the fact that they could be wrong in that they are >underestimating the consequences. > >Therefore, I conclude that the extremist position is the one taken by >the person who sits around wanting more conclusive proof before taking >any action to lower the consequences of global climate change. > >Kjell Johansen >Whitefish Bay, WI > >The opinions expressed are my own and are not in any way attributable to >my employment. >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From FloodJR at nv.doe.gov Thu Mar 22 14:29:35 2007 From: FloodJR at nv.doe.gov (Flood, John) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:29:35 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) In-Reply-To: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6E3@gdses.corp.gds.com> References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C037E31A3@gdses.corp.gds.com> <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6E3@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <3F9210628ADD1D44949E7FD0841A6B2B6CE1CD@NTS-VPO1-WS.NTS.OPS> Interesting that this phenomenon was just "discovered" - the influence of fresh water from melting glaciers on the three-dimensional large scale ocean currents was a topic covered in a climatology class I took in college. And I won't be admitting how many decades ago that was. The example used in class was to show how large scale melting of the northern hemisphere ice cap would probably move the Gulf Stream enough to turn England into something more like Iceland. John R. (Bob) Flood Acting Manager Radiological Health Nevada Test Site (702) 295-2514 -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:26 AM To: 'Johansen, Kjell'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) Kyell, Interesting article today. Southern Ocean current faces slowdown threat By Michael Byrnes Thu Mar 22, 2:03 AM ET HOBART (Reuters) - The impact of global warming on the vast Southern Ocean around Antarctica is starting to pose a threat to ocean currents that distribute heat around the world, Australian scientists say, citing new deep-water data. Melting ice-sheets and glaciers in Antarctica are releasing fresh water, interfering with the formation of dense "bottom water," which sinks 4-5 kilometers to the ocean floor and helps drive the world's ocean circulation system. A slowdown in the system known as "overturning circulation" would affect the way the ocean, which absorbs 85 percent of atmospheric heat, carries heat around the globe. "If the water gets fresh enough ... then it won't matter how much ice we form, we won't be able to make this water cold and salty enough to sink," said Steve Rintoul, a senior scientist at the Australian government-funded CSIRO Marine Science. "Changes would be felt ... around the globe," said Rintoul, who recently led a multinational team of scientists on an expedition to sample deep-basin water south of Western Australia to the Antarctic. Water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor is formed in polar regions by surface water freezing, which concentrates salt in very cold water beneath the ice. The dense water then sinks. Only a few places around Antarctica and in the northern Atlantic create water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor, making Antarctic "bottom water" crucial to global ocean currents. But the freshening of Antarctic deep water was a sign that the "overturning circulation" system in the world's oceans might be slowing down, Rintoul said, and similar trends are occurring in the North Atlantic. For the so-called Atlantic Conveyor, the surface warm water current meets the Greenland ice sheet then cools and sinks, heading south again and driving the conveyor belt process. But researchers fear increased melting of the Greenland ice sheet risks disrupting the conveyor. If it stops, temperatures in northern Europe would plunge. Rintoul, who has led teams tracking water density around the Antarctic through decades of readings, said his findings add to concerns about a "strangling" of the Southern Ocean by greenhouse gases and global warming. Australian scientists warned last month that waters surrounding Antarctica were also becoming more acidic as they absorbed more carbon dioxide produced by nations burning fossil fuels. Acidification of the ocean is affecting the ability of plankton -- microscopic marine plants, animals and bacteria -- to absorb carbon dioxide, reducing the ocean's ability to sink greenhouse gases to the bottom of the sea. Rintoul said that global warming was also changing wind patterns in the Antarctic region, drawing them south away from the Australian mainland and causing declining rainfall in western and possibly eastern coastal areas. This was contributing to drought in Australia, one of the world's top agricultural producers, he said. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Johansen, Kjell Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:51 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Therefore, I conclude that the extremist position is the one taken by the person who sits around wanting more conclusive proof before taking any action to lower the consequences of global climate change. Kjell Johansen Whitefish Bay, WI _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Thu Mar 22 15:43:20 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:43:20 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com><45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com><5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com><01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: Brian P. Riely wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Riely, Brian P. Sent: Tue 3/20/2007 1:12 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle Informative article: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html ========================= Radsafe readers can find a detail rebuttal of the cherry-picked arguments in the cited web page at the web page info-pollution.com/chill.html Further, the web page Brian Riely cites is put together by Monte and Harrison Hieb. Monte Hieb works, apparently as an engineer, with the West Virginia Office of Miners Health Safety and Training, in the Oak Hill Regional Office. The MHST web site includes the information that WV had 27 miner fatalities and 1547 injuries in 2006, among either 20,600 or 36,000 people employed in the industry (the web page's information here is ambiguous). The Hieb's web site is primarily devoted to WV plant fossil paleontology. Their global warming pages are primarily disinformation. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland WA jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 22 15:44:54 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:44:54 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] [Nuclear News] Japan's TEPCO admits 1978 nuclear criticality Message-ID: <46028856.2407.59C9235@sandyfl.cox.net> Index: Japan's TEPCO admits 1978 nuclear criticality Germany can abandon nuclear power and cut CO2: Greenpeace Vietnam wants nuclear power Fluor Forms Nuclear Power Business 2 UK sailors killed in nuclear submarine accident Ireland Unions call for nuclear energy debate Rate-setters look at rules for possible nuclear plant --------------------------------------------------------------------- Japan's TEPCO admits 1978 nuclear criticality TOKYO, March 22 (Reuters) - Japan's largest utility, Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) , said on Thursday there was a "criticality" incident at one of its nuclear power plants in 1978 that could have lasted for up to 7-?? hours. TEPCO's admission came a week after another Japanese utility said it had concealed a similar incident in 1999. There were no records of the incident at the No.3 unit at TEPCO's Fukushima Daiichi plant in Fukushima, northern Japan. It came to light during interviews with two former workers at the plant, both now aged around 70, a news briefing was told by Nagao Suzuki, general manager at TEPCO's nuclear power plant management unit. TEPCO said it was still investigating but was unaware of any injuries or radiation leak as a result of the incident. "One of them had a quite clear memory about the incident. He took it quite seriously," Suzuki said. ADVERTISEMENT Fuel rods fell in a reactor core and may have caused self-sustaining nuclear fission, or criticality. It took about 7 ?? hours to place the rods into the proper positions, he said. Technical data which should have recorded the incident was abandoned after 10 years in line with regulations that governed nuclear power plant management in the 1970s. Toshiba Corp. ., the maker of the unit, provided some data to back up what the worker said about the incident, Suzuki said. It was unclear if the workers had intended to conceal the incident, he said. TEPCO has found five past cases of mishandling of fuel rods, including the one at the Fukushima plant. The other four, which did not lead to criticality, also involved Toshiba units. Utilities are now reporting such incidents to the government after the Trade Ministry ordered them in November to investigate power plant records and report the findings by the end of March, a process the ministry said would help improve the industry's safety controls. TEPCO's admission comes after Hokuriku Electric Power Co. said last week it had covered up an incident in 1999 that caused criticality that lasted for 15 minutes. ------------------ Germany can abandon nuclear power and cut CO2: Greenpeace BERLIN (AFP) - Germany could abandon nuclear energy more quickly than planned and still achieve a 40-percent cut in carbon dioxide emissions, environmental group Greenpeace said on Thursday. If all nuclear power stations were closed by 2015, instead of the planned date of 2020, Germany could still reduce its CO2 emissions by 40 percent, according to a study prepared for Greenpeace by the EUtech institute, based in the western German city of Aachen. Germany has the resources and the technology available to achieve both goals, the report said. "There can be no more excuses, a 40-percent cut by 2020 is achievable," said Greenpeace Germany's energy expert Andree Boehling. Shutting down the country's nuclear plants would indirectly have a positive effect on emissions by encouraging the energy industry to develop new technology, Boehling said. Germany, which currently holds the rotating presidency of the European Union, helped broker an agreement this month under which the 27 member states will reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 20 percent from 1990 levels over the next 13 years. But the Greenpeace-backed report, entitled "Climate protection: Plan B," says Germany could achieve a greater reduction by using renewable energy to generate one fifth of its heating needs and one third of its electricity by 2020, according to the report "The German government's Plan A has failed," Boehling said, referring to a slight rise in CO2 emissions in Germany since 2006. Germany has agreed to phase out nuclear power by around 2020, but France relies on atomic energy for around 40 percent of its needs and has pushed for it to be classed as a renewable form of energy when the EU deal is firmed up. ----------------- Vietnam wants nuclear power SINGAPORE, March 22 (UPI) -- Vietnam intends to build nuclear power plants to diversify sources for its increasing energy demand, moving away from traditional hydropower. "Maybe in 15 years, we hope to have a plant in operation," said Ta Van Huong, director general of the Vietnamese Ministry of Industry's Department of Energy and Petroleum. "Nothing is confirmed yet." Huong, talking at the 10th Asia Power and Energy Congress in Singapore, said he hopes the government will approve nuclear power so his department can begin feasibility studies, Thanhnien News reports. Iranian PressTV reports Huong plans to build a 2,000 megawatt nuclear plant by 2015, which will come online by 2020. The Energy Information Administration, the data arm of the U.S. Department of Energy, says Vietnam will increase its electricity demand by 15 percent a year over the next three years. More than half is supplied by hydropower. ------------------ Fluor Forms Nuclear Power Business Fluor Forms New Unit to Focus on Engineering and Construction Services for Nuclear Industry IRVING, Texas (AP) -- Engineering and construction services provider Fluor Corp. on Thursday said it has formed a new business to focus on the nuclear power market. Nuclear power generation has gained new favor amid government officials' increasing concerns about global warming. Proponents consider nuclear power an alternative to coal-fired plants, which are blamed for contributing to air pollution. Nationwide, U.S. utilities are pursuing plans for some 30 new reactors. Fluor named Ron Pitts to head its nuclear business, which will fall under the umbrella of its power group. David Constable, president of Fluor's power group, will lead the nuclear business development efforts. The new unit will be headquartered in Greenville, S.C. President Bush advocated the use of nuclear power in his State of the Union address earlier this year, as part of a plan to diversify the nation's energy supply. No new nuclear reactors have been ordered in the United States since a 1979 accident at the Three Mile Island plant in Pennsylvania raised public ire about nuclear power ------------------- 2 UK sailors killed in nuclear submarine accident ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) -- Two British sailors were killed in an explosion aboard a Royal Navy nuclear-powered submarine in the Arctic Ocean, and an injured crew member was evacuated to a hospital in Anchorage, officials said Wednesday. The explosion occurred late Tuesday aboard the HMS Tireless, which was submerged under an ice cap about 170 miles north of Deadhorse, Alaska. The submarine was conducting a joint exercise with the U.S. Navy when its air purification system malfunctioned, British defense officials said. According to the U.S. Navy, a self-contained oxygen generation candle exploded. The attack submarine surfaced quickly through the ice and its nuclear reactor was not affected, according to the British Ministry of Defense. The Tireless does not carry nuclear missiles. The injured sailor, whose name was not released, was transported by the Alaska Air National Guard from Deadhorse, in northern Alaska's Prudhoe Bay, to Kulis Air National Guard Base in Anchorage, 625 miles away, where an ambulance took him to a local hospital. He was then taken to Alaska Regional Hospital, where he was in stable condition, said hospital spokeswoman Kjerstin Lastufka. "He was initially reported to have some burns," said Kalei Brooks, spokeswoman for the Alaska Air National Guard. The Tireless was operating with the USS Alexandria in a joint operation to test submarine operability and tactical development in Arctic waters. The submarine's forward compartment was damaged in the explosion. The equipment that failed had a 100 percent safety record, according to a Ministry of Defense spokesman. The piece of air-purification equipment was fitted to the submarine as part of an update in 2001. "I am deeply saddened at the loss of the crew members from the Tireless," said U.S. Navy Vice Adm. Jay Donnelly, commander of the Submarine Force. "We stand by to assist in any way we can." Since 1986, every Arctic tactical exercise has involved both U.S. Navy and Royal Navy submarines. Lt. Col. Andy Price, spokesman for the Royal Navy, said the submarine, while fully functional, will be evaluated over the next 12 hours to determine whether it will continue to be part of the joint exercises or return to the United Kingdom. Two weeks of exercises are scheduled to end March 30. ----------------- Ireland Unions call for nuclear energy debate The Irish Congress of Trade Unions has called for a national debate on nuclear power as a way of providing enough energy for Ireland's growing population. Speaking at the launch of a congress policy document on sustainable energy, General Secretary David Begg said that he was not 'cheerleading' for nuclear power. However, he said that within five years it must be acknowledged that some energy imported from the UK would undoubtedly be generated by nuclear means. AdvertisementHe accused the Government of a lack of 'joined-up thinking' in its formulation of energy policy. Congress has also called for the establishment of a National Energy Agency. It said the energy issue is too serious to be left in the hands of politicians engaging in 'electoral gimmickry'. --------------- Rate-setters look at rules for possible nuclear plant Consumers could be charged before any facility is built Measures designed to encourage the development of new nuclear plants in the state -- created with "significant deference" to Entergy -- were postponed by a month on Wednesday so the Louisiana Public Service Commission can consider additional protections for the state's electric customers. The proposed rules would turn the traditional regulatory process on its head by allowing a utility to earn money on a nuclear plant before it is in operation. The rules would also require the PSC to approve of the need for a nuclear plant before it is built and again at the beginning of each of three phases. The PSC would annually review the construction costs and, in the case the plant is never completed, would allow a utility to collect its costs from its customer. The rules were requested by Commissioner Jay Blossman last year. Other states, including Florida, Georgia and Indiana, have adopted similar rules to encourage the development of nuclear plants. "I wanted Louisiana to have an aggressive rule," Blossman said Wednesday. "We may decide in two years that we really don't think it's a smart idea. I just hope we would have the chance." In crafting the rule, the Louisiana Public Service Commission staff gave "significant deference" to Entergy and its position, PSC staff attorney Ann Hill said. Entergy is the only company that has expressed an interest in building a nuclear plant in the state. Entergy Nuclear, a subsidiary of Entergy Corp., has said it is considering a new nuclear unit at its Riverbend facility in St. Francisville. It plans to apply for a license for such a plant next year. It also intends to apply for a license to build a new unit at Grand Gulf, in Port Gibson, Miss. Mike Twomey, vice president of regulatory affairs for Entergy Louisiana, has said the company may build only one unit, and could chose between Louisiana and Mississippi, depending on which state offers the best environment. Louisiana needs to adopt rules that provide the company certainty it will recover its costs for a nuclear plant, he said. When companies built the last generation of nuclear plants in the 1980s, many utilities were not allowed to collect all of their costs because public service commissions found them to be imprudent. Twomey has said that such regulations discourage development of new nuclear plants. The rules presented on Wednesday take positions on issues favorable to Entergy that the staff opposed. The commissioners seemed inclined to adopt at least one of the staff's recommendations -- to remove language from the rule that would make all costs involved with the construction of a nuclear plant "presumptively valid." "We have to make sure they are prudent," said Commissioner Foster Campbell. "As a safety net, you have to leave it in there." The staff also recommended the utility not be guaranteed the right to earn money from customers before a nuclear plant is completed. That staff recommended that earnings be granted if the utility can demonstrate that they would be in the public interest, which a company could do when it came before the commission for approval of the project. "We're not suggesting we're for or against (collection of earnings), but it should be done in the certification process," when the commission can look at all of the facts of a particular proposal, said David Dismukes, a consultant to the PSC who helped draft the rules. Dismukes said collecting earnings can be good for the public because they lessen the eventual rate shock of paying for a nuclear plant and can keep the company in good financial standing. Some commissioners agreed. "I don't feel comfortable at all saying that they can collect this without" proving it's necessary, Commissioner Jimmy Fields said. Even without the guarantee, the rule goes far in changing the way such earnings were handled in the past, Dismukes said. In the 1970s and '80s, utilities that were constructing nuclear plants were allowed to earn money on their work in progress only if they could prove to the commission that they were in financial distress, he said. "This company is not in financial distress," Campbell said. "I don't have a problem with looking a nuclear. My dilemma is making a sweetheart or handsome deal with a company that is flush." The commission postponed adopting the rules after Commissioner Lambert C. Boissiere III asked to amend them to make sure that if Entergy stopped construction of a nuclear plant for its own reasons, that the company would not be able to collect its costs from Louisiana customers. Boissiere later said such a provision is necessary because Louisiana is competing with Mississippi for the nuclear plant. Mississippi could offer Entergy a better deal after construction begins in Louisiana. In that case, Entergy shouldn't be able to move the project and charge Louisiana customers for the unfinished plant here, he said. After the meeting, Twomey said he has no problems with Boissiere's amendment or the staff's recommendation to take out the language saying the costs would be presumptively prudent. But, he said that not including the guarantee on earnings doesn't provide the incentives needed to attract nuclear to the state. "I don't think it provides the same positive message," he said. Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Thu Mar 22 16:00:13 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:00:13 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle References: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com><45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com><5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com><01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: Steven Dapra wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Steven Dapra Sent: Tue 3/20/2007 7:39 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle March 20 This is a very informative website with a lot of useful and equally informative links. My thanks to Brian Riely for posting this link. It is beginning to look like man-made "global warming" is a fraud and a hoax. It would seem that the earth is in a cycle of warming, and that man-made chemicals have nothing to do with the current warming trend. When you find that the peddlers of global warming are covering up or ignoring the role of water vapor (which is 95% of the gases that cause warming) you can't help but be skeptical -- both of man-made global warming, and skeptical of the honesty of the people pushing it. No flames, please. It's warm enough already. (Har, har.) Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com ======================= There are two technical terms for the argument that Steven Dapra is advancing here. One is "straw man". You create a fictitious argument that none your debating opponents actually believes and then proceed to burn it down (up?). No educated climate scientist anywhere in the world is not aware that water vapor is responsible for most of the greenhouse gas warming effect that makes the earth's surface roughly 33 deg C warmer than it would be if we didn't have an atmosphere that contained greenhouse gases. Every general circulation model incorporates the greenhouse gas effect of water vapor. In fact, the warming predicted by GCM's is roughly twice what would be expected from the anthropogenic emission CO2, CH4, nitrous oxide, and CFCs, specifically because the warming that those gases produce will result in more water vapor in the atmosphere -- see the Clausius-Clapeyron equation. The second technical term for the argument is "lie". I assume that Steven Dapra is just ignorantly passing along this particular lie being propagated by right-wing disinformationists that are well aware that it is a lie. More generally, many contributors to this discussion have said something on the order of "I don't know much (or anything) about climate science, but I know who I am ideologically comfortable believing". Almost everyone reading and contributing to RADSAFE is capable of informing themselves about the the facts of climate scientists so that they can make informed choices of what policies to support. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or the U.S. Department of Energy. From brian.riely at ngc.com Thu Mar 22 17:16:03 2007 From: brian.riely at ngc.com (Riely, Brian P.) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:16:03 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: References: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com><45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com><5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com><01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: Jim Dukelow Wow! I can not believe you used the term, "right-wing disinformationists." I originally thought you were trying to have a rational and informed debate. Disappointed Brian Riely -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Dukelow, James S Jr Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:00 PM To: Steven Dapra; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle Steven Dapra wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Steven Dapra Sent: Tue 3/20/2007 7:39 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle March 20 This is a very informative website with a lot of useful and equally informative links. My thanks to Brian Riely for posting this link. It is beginning to look like man-made "global warming" is a fraud and a hoax. It would seem that the earth is in a cycle of warming, and that man-made chemicals have nothing to do with the current warming trend. When you find that the peddlers of global warming are covering up or ignoring the role of water vapor (which is 95% of the gases that cause warming) you can't help but be skeptical -- both of man-made global warming, and skeptical of the honesty of the people pushing it. No flames, please. It's warm enough already. (Har, har.) Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com ======================= There are two technical terms for the argument that Steven Dapra is advancing here. One is "straw man". You create a fictitious argument that none your debating opponents actually believes and then proceed to burn it down (up?). No educated climate scientist anywhere in the world is not aware that water vapor is responsible for most of the greenhouse gas warming effect that makes the earth's surface roughly 33 deg C warmer than it would be if we didn't have an atmosphere that contained greenhouse gases. Every general circulation model incorporates the greenhouse gas effect of water vapor. In fact, the warming predicted by GCM's is roughly twice what would be expected from the anthropogenic emission CO2, CH4, nitrous oxide, and CFCs, specifically because the warming that those gases produce will result in more water vapor in the atmosphere -- see the Clausius-Clapeyron equation. The second technical term for the argument is "lie". I assume that Steven Dapra is just ignorantly passing along this particular lie being propagated by right-wing disinformationists that are well aware that it is a lie. More generally, many contributors to this discussion have said something on the order of "I don't know much (or anything) about climate science, but I know who I am ideologically comfortable believing". Almost everyone reading and contributing to RADSAFE is capable of informing themselves about the the facts of climate scientists so that they can make informed choices of what policies to support. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or the U.S. Department of Energy. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Thu Mar 22 17:49:34 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:49:34 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle References: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com><45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com><5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com><01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f><5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: Brian Riely wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Riely, Brian P. Sent: Thu 3/22/2007 3:16 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle Jim Dukelow Wow! I can not believe you used the term, "right-wing disinformationists." I originally thought you were trying to have a rational and informed debate. Disappointed Brian Riely =========================== I am. When would you like to start? One way to be rational and informed is to recognize disinformation and its sources and name both. Please visit the web site I posted and then we can discuss details of where the truth is found. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. From hflong at pacbell.net Thu Mar 22 18:55:21 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 16:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) In-Reply-To: <3F9210628ADD1D44949E7FD0841A6B2B6CE1CD@NTS-VPO1-WS.NTS.OPS> Message-ID: <20070322235521.1952.qmail@web83512.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> When there WAS "global warming" a thousand years ago (when Greenland was green), was England "like Greenland' (frozen?) or like Robin Hood stories of life in Sherwood Forest? Theory vs History. Howard Long "Flood, John" wrote: Interesting that this phenomenon was just "discovered" - the influence of fresh water from melting glaciers on the three-dimensional large scale ocean currents was a topic covered in a climatology class I took in college. And I won't be admitting how many decades ago that was. The example used in class was to show how large scale melting of the northern hemisphere ice cap would probably move the Gulf Stream enough to turn England into something more like Iceland. John R. (Bob) Flood Acting Manager Radiological Health Nevada Test Site (702) 295-2514 -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:26 AM To: 'Johansen, Kjell'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) Kyell, Interesting article today. Southern Ocean current faces slowdown threat By Michael Byrnes Thu Mar 22, 2:03 AM ET HOBART (Reuters) - The impact of global warming on the vast Southern Ocean around Antarctica is starting to pose a threat to ocean currents that distribute heat around the world, Australian scientists say, citing new deep-water data. Melting ice-sheets and glaciers in Antarctica are releasing fresh water, interfering with the formation of dense "bottom water," which sinks 4-5 kilometers to the ocean floor and helps drive the world's ocean circulation system. A slowdown in the system known as "overturning circulation" would affect the way the ocean, which absorbs 85 percent of atmospheric heat, carries heat around the globe. "If the water gets fresh enough ... then it won't matter how much ice we form, we won't be able to make this water cold and salty enough to sink," said Steve Rintoul, a senior scientist at the Australian government-funded CSIRO Marine Science. "Changes would be felt ... around the globe," said Rintoul, who recently led a multinational team of scientists on an expedition to sample deep-basin water south of Western Australia to the Antarctic. Water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor is formed in polar regions by surface water freezing, which concentrates salt in very cold water beneath the ice. The dense water then sinks. Only a few places around Antarctica and in the northern Atlantic create water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor, making Antarctic "bottom water" crucial to global ocean currents. But the freshening of Antarctic deep water was a sign that the "overturning circulation" system in the world's oceans might be slowing down, Rintoul said, and similar trends are occurring in the North Atlantic. For the so-called Atlantic Conveyor, the surface warm water current meets the Greenland ice sheet then cools and sinks, heading south again and driving the conveyor belt process. But researchers fear increased melting of the Greenland ice sheet risks disrupting the conveyor. If it stops, temperatures in northern Europe would plunge. Rintoul, who has led teams tracking water density around the Antarctic through decades of readings, said his findings add to concerns about a "strangling" of the Southern Ocean by greenhouse gases and global warming. Australian scientists warned last month that waters surrounding Antarctica were also becoming more acidic as they absorbed more carbon dioxide produced by nations burning fossil fuels. Acidification of the ocean is affecting the ability of plankton -- microscopic marine plants, animals and bacteria -- to absorb carbon dioxide, reducing the ocean's ability to sink greenhouse gases to the bottom of the sea. Rintoul said that global warming was also changing wind patterns in the Antarctic region, drawing them south away from the Australian mainland and causing declining rainfall in western and possibly eastern coastal areas. This was contributing to drought in Australia, one of the world's top agricultural producers, he said. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Johansen, Kjell Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:51 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Therefore, I conclude that the extremist position is the one taken by the person who sits around wanting more conclusive proof before taking any action to lower the consequences of global climate change. Kjell Johansen Whitefish Bay, WI _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From sjd at swcp.com Thu Mar 22 20:59:33 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:59:33 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.n et> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322181057.009e8380@mail.swcp.com> March 22 In reply to Ruth Sponsler I (Steven Dapra [SD]) wrote: At the same time, global warming proponents are moaning and groaning about CO2. According to the above link, [< http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html>] 186 billion tons of CO2 are produced every year. Six billion of these tons are man-made a mere three percent. The other 97% comes from natural biological processes in the ocean, and from decaying plant matter. As can plainly be seen, the human contribution to greenhouse gases is insignificant. Kjell Johansen replied to me, saying: "It is my understanding from meteorology classes that while water vapor acts as a green house gas, the amount of water vapor in the air depends upon the temprature. Increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere traps more heat which in turn generates the water vapor by evaporating liquids. Long story short, without the driving force of carbon dioxide, and other gases such as methane (which has about 16x more forcing power than CO2), there would not be much water vapor to ta act as a greenhouse gas." SD: I have never taken a meteorology class. What you say sounds plausible. How did you manage to overlook what I said, to wit, only three percent (3%) of CO2 is man-made? Are you saying that this 3% from humans is the sole (or major) cause of evaporation? As a corollary of this, are you also saying the naturally produced 97% of CO2, that we humans can not control, has nothing to do with any alleged global warming? It will be futile to drag out methane and its 16x forcing power. There is even less man-made methane than there is man-made CO2, so even with its 16x forcing power it still can't even begin to approach the influence of the 97% CO2 that occurs naturally. Kjell also wrote: "To suddenly (200 years is sudden on the geological time scale) dump large amounts of carbon which has been sequesterd in the earth for millions of years into the atmosphere and expect that the earth's biogeochemical cycles will not be upset is not logical." SD Approximately how much CO2 has been dumped into the atmosphere in the preceding 200 y, and how does that amount compare in actual tonnage, and in percentage, to the amount that has been dumped by natural processes during the same period? You wrote, Kjell, "It is a form of reverse hubris to think that humanity can not effect [sic] global climate change." I would say it is a form of stupendous arrogance and vast, un-warranted self-assurance to say that humanity *can* affect the earth's biogeochemical cycles. A mere foot of snow will paralyze most cities in the United States. Six inches of rain causes everyone to go into a panic about how the dams or the levees will break and wash everyone and everything away. What makes us humans think we can do so much, or that we can have any influence at all on nature. A simple windstorm will tear a roof off a multi-million dollar building. Who do we think we're fooling? Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com From sjd at swcp.com Thu Mar 22 20:26:40 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:26:40 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20070322143838.033d3768@pop.aecom.yu.edu> References: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.n et> <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322181504.009e8380@mail.swcp.com> March 22 My thanks to Bob Casparius for posting this very clear NCDC explanation of the role of water vapor, accompanied by the explanation of what we *do not* know. So there is no confusion or uncertainty on anyone's part, that link I offered was not to my site, nor do I necessarily accept everything that was said on the site. (See the end of Bob's posting.) I do not know if the site was promoting coal or not and can't comment on that. Bob suggested that the site might be biased in its discussion of global warming and his suggestion may well be true, I don't know. It cannot be said often enough that *everyone* has a bias, and we might do well to keep that in mind. With respect to strip mining, it may not be a pretty sight, however it has nothing to do with global warming. The UMTRA project left us with some rather large tailings piles. I know some of that is from bomb production, however some of it is from reactor fuel too -- at least I assume it is. I could stand to be corrected on that point. Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 02:57 PM 3/22/07 -0400, Bob Casparius wrote: >The National Climate Data Center [NCDC] even says that any increase in >water vapor in the atmosphere is due to increases in atmospheric >temperature. Therefore, the increased atmospheric temperature must be due >to something other than increased water vapor. And if there is increased >water vapor in the atmosphere it is due to increased atmospheric temp. > >The following is from http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html > >"Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, which >is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its concentration >is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the >warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of >industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is >critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet is >still fairly poorly measured and understood. > >As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated from >ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is >warmer, the relative humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is able >to 'hold' more water when its warmer), leading to more water vapor in the >atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water vapor >is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, >thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then hold >more water vapor and so on and so on. This is referred to as a 'positive >feedback loop'. However, huge scientific uncertainty exists in defining >the extent and importance of this feedback loop. As water vapor increases >in the atmosphere, more of it will eventually also condense into clouds, >which are more able to reflect incoming solar radiation (thus allowing >less energy to reach the Earth's surface and heat it up). The future >monitoring of atmospheric processes involving water vapor will be critical >to fully understand the feedbacks in the climate system leading to global >climate change. As yet, though the basics of the hydrological cycle are >fairly well understood, we have very little comprehension of the >complexity of the feedback loops. Also, while we have good atmospheric >measurements of other key greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide and >methane, we have poor measurements of global water vapor, so it is not >certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in recent >decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined with balloon >data and some in-situ ground measurements indicate generally positive >trends in global water vapor." > >The website: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html > >That Steven Dapra sites appears to be promoting coal as an energy source, >which is another source of CO2 when burned. This makes you wonder if they >are not bias in their presentation of global warming. Check out the >discussion of strip mining: > >http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/StripMiner.html > >Bob [edit] From sjd at swcp.com Thu Mar 22 20:35:49 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:35:49 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: References: <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322182917.009fadd0@mail.swcp.com> March 22 Where did you get this stuff about Monte and Harrison Hieb? You provided no source. More to the point, what do coal mining injuries and fatalities have to do with global warming, CO2, and so forth? In another posting you accused me of making a straw man argument and of passing along a lie. It seems to me you are dragging around a red herring. Or is this guilt by association? WV has a lot of mining fatalities so what the Hiebs say about global warming is false. If the Hieb's page is "primarily disinformation," why couldn't you take the time to give us even one example? Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com At 01:43 PM 3/22/07 -0700, Dukelow, James S Jr wrote: >Brian P. Riely wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Riely, Brian P. >Sent: Tue 3/20/2007 1:12 PM >To: radsafe at radlab.nl >Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle > >Informative article: > >http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html > > > >========================= > >Radsafe readers can find a detail rebuttal of the cherry-picked arguments >in the cited web page at >the web page > >info-pollution.com/chill.html > >Further, the web page Brian Riely cites is put together by Monte and >Harrison Hieb. Monte Hieb works, apparently as an engineer, with the West >Virginia Office of Miners Health Safety and Training, in the Oak Hill >Regional Office. The MHST web site includes the information that WV had >27 miner fatalities and 1547 injuries in 2006, among either 20,600 or >36,000 people employed in the industry (the web page's information here is >ambiguous). > >The Hieb's web site is primarily devoted to WV plant fossil >paleontology. Their global warming pages are primarily disinformation. > >Best regards. > >Jim Dukelow >Pacific Northwest National Laboratory >Richland WA >jim.dukelow at pnl.gov > >These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my >management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. From sjd at swcp.com Thu Mar 22 21:01:45 2007 From: sjd at swcp.com (Steven Dapra) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 19:01:45 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: References: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322185513.009fadd0@mail.swcp.com> March 22 On March 20 Steven Dapra (SD) wrote: "This is a very informative website with a lot of useful and equally informative links. My thanks to Brian Riely for posting this link. It is beginning to look like man-made "global warming" is a fraud and a hoax. It would seem that the earth is in a cycle of warming, and that man-made chemicals have nothing to do with the current warming trend. When you find that the peddlers of global warming are covering up or ignoring the role of water vapor (which is 95% of the gases that cause warming) you can't help but be skeptical -- both of man-made global warming, and skeptical of the honesty of the people pushing it." Jim Dukelow wrote: "There are two technical terms for the argument that Steven Dapra is advancing here. One is "straw man". You create a fictitious argument that none your debating opponents actually believes and then proceed to burn it down (up?). No educated climate scientist anywhere in the world is not aware that water vapor is responsible for most of the greenhouse gas warming effect that makes the earth's surface roughly 33 deg C warmer than it would be if we didn't have an atmosphere that contained greenhouse gases. Every general circulation model incorporates the greenhouse gas effect of water vapor. In fact, the warming predicted by GCM's is roughly twice what would be expected from the anthropogenic emission CO2, CH4, nitrous oxide, and CFCs, specifically because the warming that those gases produce will result in more water vapor in the atmosphere -- see the Clausius-Clapeyron equation. SD I am not advancing a straw man argument. I did not know water vapor was a greenhouse gas until I began reading this thread and some of the linked material. The popular press seems to have largely covered that up, or ignored it. My comments about global warming have little to do with 'educated climate scientists,' they are about the deceitful way in which it is presented to the general public. (I am not creating any "fictitious argument" about 'educated climate scientists'.) Jim Dukelow: "The second technical term for the argument is "lie". I assume that Steven Dapra is just ignorantly passing along this particular lie being propagated by right-wing disinformationists that are well aware that it is a lie. SD I did not knowingly pass along a lie. All you have done so far, Jim, is accuse the Hiebs of propounding claims that are "primarily disinformation," and claim that some argument is a "lie." You have given no examples. True, you have a link replying to some cherry-picked arguments. Why don't you say something specific? Why are you saying these alleged "disinformationists" are on the right-wing? How do you know what wing they occupy? Thus far your allegation seems to be baseless. Do you hope to accomplish any constructive end by hurling objurgations? Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com From GELSG at aol.com Thu Mar 22 20:13:44 2007 From: GELSG at aol.com (GELSG at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:13:44 EDT Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle Message-ID: Jim: Many years ago, a professor of mine gave us all excellent advice: "A wise man is one who knows what he does not know." Since then, I have learned many times that a person who does not know his/her limitations is (or has the potential to be) very dangerous in a scientific discussion. I agree with your comments. Jerry Gels In a message dated 3/22/2007 5:13:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jim.dukelow at pnl.gov writes: More generally, many contributors to this discussion have said something on the order of "I don't know much (or anything) about climate science, but I know who I am ideologically comfortable believing". Almost everyone reading and contributing to RADSAFE is capable of informing themselves about the the facts of climate scientists so that they can make informed choices of what policies to support. Best regards. Jim Dukelow ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. From robert.atkinson at genetix.com Fri Mar 23 03:13:25 2007 From: robert.atkinson at genetix.com (Robert Atkinson) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:13:25 -0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement References: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB6E0@gdses.corp.gds.com> Message-ID: <260B27D627B0C84E864BAC459B702555061BFA@exch01.GENETIX.LOCAL> Hi. There is one other issue to consider, what exact model and type of GM probe/meter is being mandated. There are energy compensated GM tubes (fitted with filters to attenuate the lower energy gammas that cause the GM tube to over-respond). While some are better than others it is possible to get an accurate dose response from a properly designed and calibrated meter with the matching probe. Many use fixed tubes so that a non compensated tube cannot be used in error. Robert -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: 22 March 2007 18:10 To: 'Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Joel, I am in 100% agreement with you and your comments. I assume the "employer" has their reasons for not simply utilizing an ion chamber (you can reply privately). Regards, Sandy ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:20 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ -------------------------------------------------------- Genetix Limited - Queensway, New Milton, Hampshire, BH25 5NN Registered in England No. 2660050 www.genetix.com Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily Genetix Ltd (Genetix) or any company associated with it. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify Genetix by telephone on +44 (0)1425 624600. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. This mail and any attachments have been scanned for viruses prior to leaving Genetix network. Genetix will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages as a result of any virus being passed on, or arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party. -------------------------------------------------------- From A.vanderKooij at TUDelft.nl Fri Mar 23 03:40:29 2007 From: A.vanderKooij at TUDelft.nl (Aad van der Kooij) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 09:40:29 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement In-Reply-To: <7DB6DF83D2CD9140ADA0622B1A05BF2F048EAA3F@nawespscez02> Message-ID: <000b01c76d26$e9a2bd90$9dc8a182@Irisbq> Well, by the time I received this message it was Friday ... The response of a GM tube can be tuned by using filters around (parts of)the tube. For example: http://www.hps.org/hpspublications/articles/allard.html And yes, you are right about questioning what is going on! Dose rates are expressed per unit of time and(TGIF)dose in Sv so: Sv.h-1 -) Enjoy your weekend! Aad van der Kooij RPO TU Delft (NL) -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:20 To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. First a short introduction: My current employer appears to be mandating/authorizing the use of Geiger Mueller (GM) detectors to measure dose rates in Roentgens (the meters read "capital" R, not "r") . As many of you know, a given instrument intended for performing quantitative measurements will respond differently to various energies of a given radiation, and a GM tube's response is quite energy dependent. As the GM's are calibrated with Cs-137 the response to other x-ray/gamma sources (of other energies/strength) can be quite different than what one would measure with an ion chamber - i.e. the energy dependence of the instrument must be known and accounted for in order to make accurate quantitative measurements. A short Discussion: I'm not sure that my employer realizes that by utilizing a GM for measurement of (a wide energy-range of) gamma/x-rays they are creating the potential for overexposure conditions (where in some/many cases one should be utilizing an ion chamber). Exposure vs dose, Bragg-Gray and kerma considerations put aside for now, I was taught to always utilize an Ion Chamber if I REALLY wanted to know the dose-rates (I use a pressurized ion-chamber myself for a wider range of energy response). After all, last I knew, "exposure" was still defined in terms of the amount of ionization charge created in AIR - and I believe that the fundamental SI unit of exposure still corresponds to that amount of x-or gamma radiation who's associated secondary electrons create an ionization charge of on coulomb per kilogram of dry air at STP. Anyone know of a GM that utilizes 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen for a counting gas? So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh Std. Disclaimer... The thoughts, discussion and opinion(s) above are mine and mine only, not that of my employer and, of course, I am in no way asserting/suggesting that my employer is doing anything wrong. This is only a topic for a philosophical Health Physics discussion and I would value your opinion(s) on the matter. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk Fri Mar 23 03:51:33 2007 From: Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk (Dawson, Fred Mr) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:51:33 -0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Armour-piercing ice cream a replacement for DU? Message-ID: New Scientist reports: http://www.newscientist.com/backpage.ns?id=mg19325952.900 "Armour-piercing ice cream ONE of the unwritten rules of public relations is that friendly images can make nasty things seem less so. However, this example from Ames Laboratory in Iowa leaves Feedback's head echoing with cognitive dissonance: "Armour-piercing projectiles made of depleted uranium have caused concern among soldiers storing and using them. Now, scientists at the US Department of Energy's Ames Laboratory are close to developing a new composite with an internal structure resembling fudge-ripple ice cream that is actually comprised of environmentally safe materials to do the job even better." Environmentally safe armour-piercing fudge-ripple ice cream? How nice" Fred Dawson . From maurysis at peoplepc.com Fri Mar 23 05:10:12 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 04:10:12 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Armour-piercing ice cream a replacement for DU? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4603A784.3000703@peoplepc.com> Perhaps we could stop tanks by attacking them with dry ice peanuts. They could be stored and delivered more easily than ice cream .... An admitted drawback is the added global warming by releasing the peanuts in open air ..... Cheers, Maury&Dog (Maury Siskel maurysis at peoplepc.com) ========================== Dawson, Fred Mr wrote: > New Scientist reports: > http://www.newscientist.com/backpage.ns?id=mg19325952.900 > "Armour-piercing ice cream ONE of the unwritten rules of public > relations is that friendly images can make nasty things seem less so. > However, this example from Ames Laboratory in Iowa leaves Feedback's > head echoing with cognitive dissonance: "Armour-piercing projectiles > made of depleted uranium have caused concern among soldiers storing > and using them. Now, scientists at the US Department of Energy's Ames > Laboratory are close to developing a > new composite with an internal structure resembling fudge-ripple ice > cream that is actually comprised of environmentally safe materials to > do the job even better." > Environmentally safe armour-piercing fudge-ripple ice cream? How nice" > > Fred Dawson > . > From maurysis at peoplepc.com Fri Mar 23 06:45:55 2007 From: maurysis at peoplepc.com (Maury Siskel) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 05:45:55 -0600 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322185513.009fadd0@mail.swcp.com> References: <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <004601c768c4$59f055b0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070317165005.009edb20@mail.swcp.com> <45FCBB0C.1080409@peoplepc.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070319191052.009f4e10@mail.swcp.com> <01fa01c76b1b$24027ba0$0200a8c0@userf94bb99e2f> <5.2.1.1.1.20070320193058.009f6dc0@mail.swcp.com> <5.2.1.1.1.20070322185513.009fadd0@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <4603BDF3.5000801@peoplepc.com> And TO other interested participants ..... This thing is beginning to take on some depressing aspects even though (I'm confident) none of the participants intended any such outcome. I have never previously heard lies or straw men referred to as technical terms and no one wished a participant to unsubscribe to the List. This controversy is serious science and engineering to most concerned because it bears heavily on the potential utility of nuclear power. I'd like to see explicit disagreements with the article by the Hieb's. And as more exchanges take place, I wonder more and more why there has not been a peep out of opposing teams about the paper (the content, not the irrelevant "problems" over where it appeared, and so on) by Z. Jaworowski: which (again) can be seen at: http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2007/2007_10-19/2007-11/pdf/38_711_science.pdf That paper is by a widely recognized scientist who has worked and published in realms of climatology. Agree or not, the contents of that paper are assembled very well and are extremely well documented. Aside from my limited impressions, I hope some will read the darn thing and stop the concern over why it happened to be published where it was. Given the unfortunate history of some esteemed western journals, I suggest that there might be some eastern Europeans who wonder why people publish in them. That simply is usually a very minor scientific issue, no matter how great it might seem to 'great' universities, government agencies, and large industries. Science welcomes information and data whether or not scientists do so. The content and reliability of the data are what count. Best, Maury&Dog (maurysis at peoplepc com) ==================== Steven Dapra wrote: > March 22 > > On March 20 Steven Dapra (SD) wrote: > > "This is a very informative website with a lot of useful and equally > informative links. My thanks to Brian Riely for posting this link. It > is beginning to look like man-made "global warming" is a fraud and a > hoax. It would seem that the earth is in a cycle of warming, and that > man-made chemicals have nothing to do with -------------------snipped----------- From zfrexon at yahoo.com Fri Mar 23 00:54:39 2007 From: zfrexon at yahoo.com (Zaid Farukhi) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Williston-Elin Irradiator Repair Message-ID: <54286.89938.qm@web56602.mail.re3.yahoo.com> We are a US company that refurbishes any manufacturers' Dosimetry, Scintillation Detectors, and Electronic equipment. We can help in the repair of irradiators and other dosimetry equipment. We will provide you a diagnosis on the irradiator free of charge. All you would be responsible for is Shipping/Handling to our factory and back to your facility. Rexon TLD Systems also manufactures and designs our line of irradiators as well. Please contact us at: Zaid Farukhi Rexon TLD Systems, Inc. 24500 Highpoint Rd Beachwood, OH 44122 Phone: 216-292-7373 Fax: 216-292-7714 www.rexon.com email: zfrexon at yahoo.com, sales at rexon.com ------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:08:30 -0400 From: Subject: [ RadSafe ] Williston-Elin To: Message-ID: <51F5591FCBAC7447BC3BBEF5FEFFBF7B0938C5BF at dohsmailhq07.doh.ad.state.fl.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We have a Williston-Elin irradiator in need of repair and support. Does anyone know of a US company that will provide service support? Does anyone have a copy of the complete technical manual for the unit? Reno J. Fabii Environmental Specialist II Florida Dept. of Health Bureau of Radiation Control Phone: (407) 297-2096 Ext. 240 Fax: (407) 297-2085 reno_fabii at doh.state.fl.us radsafe-request at radlab.nl wrote: Send radsafe mailing list submissions to radsafe at radlab.nl To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.radlab.nl/mailman/listinfo/radsafe or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to radsafe-request at radlab.nl You can reach the person managing the list at radsafe-owner at radlab.nl When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of radsafe digest..." Important! To keep threads/discussions more easily readible please observe the following guideline when replying to a message or digest: When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of radsafe digest ... and - rather than enclose an entire article that you quote only the germane sentence to which you're responding". _______________________________________________ Today's Topics: 1. Re: Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine (John Jacobus) 2. Re: IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine (John Jacobus) 3. AW: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine (Rainer.Facius at dlr.de) 4. Williston-Elin (Reno_Fabii at doh.state.fl.us) 5. LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise ("Yellow cake") (John Jacobus) 6. RE: LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise("Yellow cake") (Conklin, Al (DOH)) 7. Radiation Safety Training at Harvard (Harvard Health Professional Training) 8. FYI (LNMolino at aol.com) 9. Re: Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine (Michael McNaughton) 10. RCT Salary Survey (Keith Welch) 11. RE: Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine (Emer, Dudley) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:28:40 -0700 (PDT) From: John Jacobus Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine To: Diane Griffiths , Steven Dapra , radsafe at radlab.nl Message-ID: <305841.91118.qm at web54306.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Diane, You may have to accept that fact that they may not want you accept ANY evidence that you present to them. This appears to be a statistical cluster when rare event, two technologist out of xx get breast cancer. Statistically, it can happen, like winning the lottery. But, now many times this CAN happen is rare. You might want to ask them how many of their friends or relative who have not worked around radiation have breast cancer. They are probably both in their late 40s and early 50s, so the natural incidences of breast cancer should be evident. My wife made that comment that several of her friends had breast cancer. After looking at the issue from the natural incidence rate, it be came clear that this was to be expected. I wish you luck on this. You are dealing with emotions that these technologists feel. --- Diane Griffiths wrote: > Thanks y'all, you are giving me some more ideas to > try and more areas to research. > > I gave them an extensive training packet with their > yearly training last October that explained > background radiation, natural radiation, even > explained that K40 in the body is radioactive. I > also gave them yearly background averages, as well > as medical procedure averages. Told them about > biological effects, and at what exposures they > occured (and said it was XX times their exposures). > In addition, I told them about time, distance, > shielding. (To which they made me show that the > Angio suite IS shielded by placing sources in there > and demonstrating the geiger counter readings). I > had a few articles on breast cancer risk to Nuclear > Medicine techs and some of the studies some of you > mentioned. (Then they tell me last week that they > have never been trained. And argued that fact with > me until I showed them the sign in sheet and > training packet and then they all of a sudden > remembered.) > > They told me they wanted specific examples of if > females in other hospitals working with radiation > got breast cancer. (Even though the two female > Nuclear Medicine techs have had no problems and have > been in the field for 24 years each). At that point > I compared their exposures to the Nuc Med techs. > They said that they understood what I was telling > them, but they were still scared. (Then after the > meeting they told the Nuclear tech that my meeting > with them did not help at all.) > > One nurse said it is like if two people got run over > by a car on the same street and location. It is not > the fact that the street is not safe, but they would > be scared to cross at the same location cause they > would probably get hurt at that location also. > > So what they told me they wanted was specific > examples from other hospitals that less than 20% got > breast cancer from working around radiation and they > might feel better about it. They wanted me to call > all the hospitals in town and get information on how > many of the female techs got breast cancer. > > So any of you in hospitals have any female techs > that got breast cancer, or didn't? Any numbers out > there? > > Diane > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing > list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have > read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be > found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe > and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:31:55 -0700 (PDT) From: John Jacobus Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of Motion assessment at radonmine To: Jerry Cuttler , "Muckerheide, Jim \(CDA\)" , Patricia Lewis , Barbra Erickson , RAD-SCI-L Cc: "Scott, Bobby" , Ted Rockwell , Edward Calabrese , Ron Mitchel , Jodi.Strzelczyk at UCHSC.edu, TD Luckey , Myron Pollycove , Ludwig Feinendegen , radsafe at radlab.nl, Peter Deetjen , Christoph K?stinger , "M Vogel @MSU" , "Robert J. Cihak" Message-ID: <286560.410.qm at web54310.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 And what does this have to do with radon? Or radon mines? Or ranges of motion? --- Jerry Cuttler wrote: > Here's one that used x-rays. > There are many more ... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Jacobus" > To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)" > ; "Patricia Lewis" > ; "Barbra Erickson" > ; "RAD-SCI-L" > > Cc: "Scott, Bobby" ; "Christoph > K?stinger" > ; "Ted Rockwell" > ; > "Edward Calabrese" ; > "Ron Mitchel" > ; "Jerry Cuttler" > ; "Myron > Pollycove" ; "Ludwig > Feinendegen" > ; "Peter Deetjen" > ; "M Vogel > @MSU" ; "TD Luckey" > ; "Robert J. > Cihak" ; > ; > > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 4:12 PM > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] IJLR - Erickson - Range of > Motion assessment at > radonmine > > > > Jim, > > Yes, it should be subjective. > > > > Rather than larger studies, physiological > parameters > > should be measured. Are you aware of any radon > > studies that evaluated such factors as antibodies, > > lymphocytes? > > > > +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:47:47 +0100 From: Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk, and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine To: , , , Message-ID: <1B5EBED4E01074419C07EEF9D3802FDA0134E02E at exbe02.intra.dlr.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Very well said, John; also your preceding comment regarding the proper sources to consult. Kind regards, Rainer -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von John Jacobus Gesendet: Montag, 12. M?rz 2007 14:29 An: Diane Griffiths; Steven Dapra; radsafe at radlab.nl Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] Breast Cancer Risk,and working in Radiology / Nuclear Medicine Diane, You may have to accept that fact that they may not want you accept ANY evidence that you present to them. This appears to be a statistical cluster when rare event, two technologist out of xx get breast cancer. Statistically, it can happen, like winning the lottery. But, now many times this CAN happen is rare. You might want to ask them how many of their friends or relative who have not worked around radiation have breast cancer. They are probably both in their late 40s and early 50s, so the natural incidences of breast cancer should be evident. My wife made that comment that several of her friends had breast cancer. After looking at the issue from the natural incidence rate, it be came clear that this was to be expected. I wish you luck on this. You are dealing with emotions that these technologists feel. --- Diane Griffiths wrote: > Thanks y'all, you are giving me some more ideas to try and more areas > to research. > > I gave them an extensive training packet with their yearly training > last October that explained background radiation, natural radiation, > even explained that K40 in the body is radioactive. I also gave them > yearly background averages, as well as medical procedure averages. > Told them about biological effects, and at what exposures they occured > (and said it was XX times their exposures). > In addition, I told them about time, distance, shielding. (To which > they made me show that the Angio suite IS shielded by placing sources > in there and demonstrating the geiger counter readings). I had a few > articles on breast cancer risk to Nuclear Medicine techs and some of > the studies some of you mentioned. (Then they tell me last week that > they have never been trained. And argued that fact with me until I > showed them the sign in sheet and training packet and then they all of > a sudden > remembered.) > > They told me they wanted specific examples of if females in other > hospitals working with radiation got breast cancer. (Even though the > two female Nuclear Medicine techs have had no problems and have been > in the field for 24 years each). At that point I compared their > exposures to the Nuc Med techs. > They said that they understood what I was telling them, but they were > still scared. (Then after the meeting they told the Nuclear tech that > my meeting with them did not help at all.) > > One nurse said it is like if two people got run over by a car on the > same street and location. It is not the fact that the street is not > safe, but they would be scared to cross at the same location cause > they would probably get hurt at that location also. > > So what they told me they wanted was specific examples from other > hospitals that less than 20% got breast cancer from working around > radiation and they might feel better about it. They wanted me to call > all the hospitals in town and get information on how many of the > female techs got breast cancer. > > So any of you in hospitals have any female techs that got breast > cancer, or didn't? Any numbers out there? > > Diane > > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > +++++++++++++++++++ "We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem." -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:08:30 -0400 From: Subject: [ RadSafe ] Williston-Elin To: Message-ID: <51F5591FCBAC7447BC3BBEF5FEFFBF7B0938C5BF at dohsmailhq07.doh.ad.state.fl.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We have a Williston-Elin irradiator in need of repair and support. Does anyone know of a US company that will provide service support? Does anyone have a copy of the complete technical manual for the unit? Reno J. Fabii Environmental Specialist II Florida Dept. of Health Bureau of Radiation Control Phone: (407) 297-2096 Ext. 240 Fax: (407) 297-2085 reno_fabii at doh.state.fl.us ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) From: John Jacobus Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise ("Yellow cake") To: radsafe , know_nukes at yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <540143.12297.qm at web54315.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-uranium12mar12,1,2145801.story?coll=la-news-a_section Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise A small amount of yellowcake uranium is discovered among rocks from an estate sale. By Stephen Hudak Orlando Sentinel March 12, 2007 BELLEVIEW, FLA. ? Every blue moon or so, collectibles dealer and pawnshop owner Frank Cafaro stumbles upon a buried gem among an estate's junk and tchotchkes. His latest find was so alarming he called firefighters. "We were in the warehouse and we pulled out this box of rocks from an estate sale," Cafaro said. "Everything was individually labeled. Amethyst. Topaz. Uranium. The guy I'm working with says, 'What's that last one? Uranium? I think that's illegal.' " Within an hour, Gold Mine Pawn was swarming last week with about three dozen emergency workers, including Geiger-counter-waving members of a hazardous materials team and the Marion County Sheriff's Office domestic security task force. They focused on a container the size of a soup can. Labeled with radioactive markings, the container protected a vial that held about an ounce of yellowcake uranium, a processed mineral that, in larger quantities, could be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors or enriched for weapons. In 2003, President Bush justified the decision to invade Iraq, in part, on a now-discredited intelligence report that claimed former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had tried to buy tons of yellowcake, presumably to manufacture weapons of mass destruction. "It was kind of scary when I heard how terrible this stuff was," Cafaro said. The mineral, which Cafaro traced to an estate sale in Miami about 10 years ago, was turned over to the Florida Department of Health for disposal. Yellowcake, also known as uranium oxide, is far from being a weapons-grade material, said Talat Rahman, chairman of the physics department at the University of Central Florida. She said it did not pose a serious threat in small quantities. "Yellowcake by itself is not dangerous," Rahman said. "It has to be processed to be converted into something dangerous." Sharon Gogerty, a spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, said small amounts of yellowcake were reported to the agency "on a regular basis" and were not considered especially dangerous. +++++++++++++++++++ ?We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient ? that we are only 6 percent of the world?s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.? -- John F. Kennedy -- John John Jacobus, MS Certified Health Physicist e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:44:44 -0700 From: "Conklin, Al \(DOH\)" Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive surprise("Yellow cake") To: "John Jacobus" , "radsafe" , Message-ID: <46C89C7B1C707349B7EF750C6847622C0518C2EF at dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It's a good thing they don't know what I've got buried around my office; "deadly" red fiesta ware, several "nuclear" autonite crystals, about three dozen "dangerous" lantern mantles, a "life threatening" radium dial clock and a compass, a can of "horrifying" salt substitute. When I go out to do training, and take along my props, I'm a walking nuclear nightmare. I might even take a "hot" banana for my lunch. -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of John Jacobus Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:15 AM To: radsafe; know_nukes at yahoogroups.com Subject: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop's radioactive === message truncated === --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. From sam_iverstine at yahoo.com Fri Mar 23 07:34:37 2007 From: sam_iverstine at yahoo.com (Sam Iverstine) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 05:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement In-Reply-To: <000b01c76d26$e9a2bd90$9dc8a182@Irisbq> Message-ID: <281217.43791.qm@web50106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Great topic. Great link to energy response curves. One's employer could spend less on an ion chamber than the two days of your time and large errors associated with applying curves and filters, in my opinion. But it might be fun to overcome the challenge. This brings me to my question for radsafe: What is the best hand held ion chamber to purchase for mainly radiology uses? The best I can find are the 450 and 451P's by Victoreen. Sometimes these meters give erratic readings due to temperature or mechanical agitation (dropping). They do have a good response rate and accurate digital readout over all energies of interest. The plastic case is water-resistant and filters fewer low energy photons (than a metallic encased meter). But there must be something better in this millennia? Thanks for any response. Sam Iverstine, MS, CHP Aad van der Kooij wrote: Well, by the time I received this message it was Friday ... The response of a GM tube can be tuned by using filters around (parts of)the tube. For example: http://www.hps.org/hpspublications/articles/allard.html And yes, you are right about questioning what is going on! Dose rates are expressed per unit of time and(TGIF)dose in Sv so: Sv.h-1 -) Enjoy your weekend! Aad van der Kooij RPO TU Delft (NL) -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:20 To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. First a short introduction: My current employer appears to be mandating/authorizing the use of Geiger Mueller (GM) detectors to measure dose rates in Roentgens (the meters read "capital" R, not "r") . As many of you know, a given instrument intended for performing quantitative measurements will respond differently to various energies of a given radiation, and a GM tube's response is quite energy dependent. As the GM's are calibrated with Cs-137 the response to other x-ray/gamma sources (of other energies/strength) can be quite different than what one would measure with an ion chamber - i.e. the energy dependence of the instrument must be known and accounted for in order to make accurate quantitative measurements. A short Discussion: I'm not sure that my employer realizes that by utilizing a GM for measurement of (a wide energy-range of) gamma/x-rays they are creating the potential for overexposure conditions (where in some/many cases one should be utilizing an ion chamber). Exposure vs dose, Bragg-Gray and kerma considerations put aside for now, I was taught to always utilize an Ion Chamber if I REALLY wanted to know the dose-rates (I use a pressurized ion-chamber myself for a wider range of energy response). After all, last I knew, "exposure" was still defined in terms of the amount of ionization charge created in AIR - and I believe that the fundamental SI unit of exposure still corresponds to that amount of x-or gamma radiation who's associated secondary electrons create an ionization charge of on coulomb per kilogram of dry air at STP. Anyone know of a GM that utilizes 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen for a counting gas? So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh Std. Disclaimer... The thoughts, discussion and opinion(s) above are mine and mine only, not that of my employer and, of course, I am in no way asserting/suggesting that my employer is doing anything wrong. This is only a topic for a philosophical Health Physics discussion and I would value your opinion(s) on the matter. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. From Jim_Hardeman at dnr.state.ga.us Fri Mar 23 08:28:09 2007 From: Jim_Hardeman at dnr.state.ga.us (Jim Hardeman) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 09:28:09 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Article: Radiation Myths Harming Public Health Message-ID: Colleagues -- This article is a review by Dr. Jay Lehr of "Underexposed: What if Radiation is Actually Good for You?" by Ed Hiserodt. URL = http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=20823 Jim Hardeman, Manager Environmental Radiation Program Environmental Protection Division Georgia Department of Natural Resources 4220 International Parkway, Suite 100 Atlanta, GA 30354 (404) 362-2675 Fax: (404) 362-2653 E-mail: Jim_Hardeman at dnr.state.ga.us From caspar at aecom.yu.edu Fri Mar 23 08:53:32 2007 From: caspar at aecom.yu.edu (Bob Casparius) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 09:53:32 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322181504.009e8380@mail.swcp.com> References: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.n et> <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> <5.2.1.1.1.20070322181504.009e8380@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20070323092657.03538888@pop.aecom.yu.edu> Steven, What they are saying is that they do not have a significant understanding of "by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in recent decades or centuries". They clearly understand that water vapor needs warmer atmospheric temperatures in order to increase in concentration. So it is not the water vapor that is causing the rise in temperatures. It is the increase in temperature that may be causing the increase in water vapor. Which brings us back to CO2 causing the increase in atmospheric temps. causing an increase in the amount of water vapor, which as we agree is a greenhouse gas. So maybe it is contributing to the problem. But only because it is a by-product of the original problem man-made CO2 being dumped into the atmosphere. Bob At 09:26 PM 3/22/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: >March 22 > > My thanks to Bob Casparius for posting this very clear NCDC > explanation of the role of water vapor, accompanied by the explanation of > what we *do not* know. > > So there is no confusion or uncertainty on anyone's part, that > link I offered was not to my site, nor do I necessarily accept everything > that was said on the site. (See the end of Bob's posting.) I do not > know if the site was promoting coal or not and can't comment on > that. Bob suggested that the site might be biased in its discussion of > global warming and his suggestion may well be true, I don't know. It > cannot be said often enough that *everyone* has a bias, and we might do > well to keep that in mind. With respect to strip mining, it may not be a > pretty sight, however it has nothing to do with global warming. The > UMTRA project left us with some rather large tailings piles. I know some > of that is from bomb production, however some of it is from reactor fuel > too -- at least I assume it is. I could stand to be corrected on that point. > >Steven Dapra >sjd at swcp.com > > > >At 02:57 PM 3/22/07 -0400, Bob Casparius wrote: >>The National Climate Data Center [NCDC] even says that any increase in >>water vapor in the atmosphere is due to increases in atmospheric >>temperature. Therefore, the increased atmospheric temperature must be due >>to something other than increased water vapor. And if there is increased >>water vapor in the atmosphere it is due to increased atmospheric temp. >> >>The following is from http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html >> >>"Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, which >>is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its concentration >>is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the >>warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of >>industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is >>critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet is >>still fairly poorly measured and understood. >> >>As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated from >>ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is >>warmer, the relative humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is able >>to 'hold' more water when its warmer), leading to more water vapor in the >>atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water vapor >>is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, >>thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then hold >>more water vapor and so on and so on. This is referred to as a 'positive >>feedback loop'. However, huge scientific uncertainty exists in defining >>the extent and importance of this feedback loop. As water vapor increases >>in the atmosphere, more of it will eventually also condense into clouds, >>which are more able to reflect incoming solar radiation (thus allowing >>less energy to reach the Earth's surface and heat it up). The future >>monitoring of atmospheric processes involving water vapor will be >>critical to fully understand the feedbacks in the climate system leading >>to global climate change. As yet, though the basics of the hydrological >>cycle are fairly well understood, we have very little comprehension of >>the complexity of the feedback loops. Also, while we have good >>atmospheric measurements of other key greenhouse gases such as carbon >>dioxide and methane, we have poor measurements of global water vapor, so >>it is not certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in >>recent decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined with >>balloon data and some in-situ ground measurements indicate generally >>positive trends in global water vapor." >> >>The website: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html >> >>That Steven Dapra sites appears to be promoting coal as an energy source, >>which is another source of CO2 when burned. This makes you wonder if they >>are not bias in their presentation of global warming. Check out the >>discussion of strip mining: >> >>http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/StripMiner.html >> >>Bob > >[edit] > > > >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Robert Casparius Radiation Safety Officer AECOM Department of Environmental Health & Safety x2243 http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ehs/Secondary%20Sites/AE_Radiation.htm From caspar at aecom.yu.edu Fri Mar 23 09:03:41 2007 From: caspar at aecom.yu.edu (Bob Casparius) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:03:41 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20070322181504.009e8380@mail.swcp.com> References: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.n et> <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657A1@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> <5.2.1.1.1.20070322181504.009e8380@mail.swcp.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20070323095950.034a8010@pop.aecom.yu.edu> Steven, This is from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas and accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect. Water vapor concentrations fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not directly affect water vapor concentrations except at very local scales. In climate models an increase in atmospheric temperature caused by the greenhouse effect due to anthropogenic gases will in turn lead to an increase in the water vapor content of the troposphere, with approximately constant relative humidity. The increased water vapor in turn leads to an increase in the greenhouse effect and thus a further increase in temperature; the increase in temperature leads to still further increase in atmospheric water vapor; and the feedback cycle continues until equilibrium is reached. Thus water vapor acts as a positive feedback to the forcing provided by human-released greenhouse gases such as CO2[9] (but has never, so far, acted on Earth as part of a runaway feedback). Changes in water vapor may also have indirect effects via cloud formation. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) IPCC Third Assessment Report chapter lead author Michael Mann considers citing "the role of water vapor as a greenhouse gas" to be "extremely misleading" as water vapor can not be controlled by humans.[10][11][12] The IPCC report has discussed water vapor feedback in more detail.[13] Bob At 09:26 PM 3/22/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: >March 22 > > My thanks to Bob Casparius for posting this very clear NCDC > explanation of the role of water vapor, accompanied by the explanation of > what we *do not* know. > > So there is no confusion or uncertainty on anyone's part, that > link I offered was not to my site, nor do I necessarily accept everything > that was said on the site. (See the end of Bob's posting.) I do not > know if the site was promoting coal or not and can't comment on > that. Bob suggested that the site might be biased in its discussion of > global warming and his suggestion may well be true, I don't know. It > cannot be said often enough that *everyone* has a bias, and we might do > well to keep that in mind. With respect to strip mining, it may not be a > pretty sight, however it has nothing to do with global warming. The > UMTRA project left us with some rather large tailings piles. I know some > of that is from bomb production, however some of it is from reactor fuel > too -- at least I assume it is. I could stand to be corrected on that point. > >Steven Dapra >sjd at swcp.com > > > >At 02:57 PM 3/22/07 -0400, Bob Casparius wrote: >>The National Climate Data Center [NCDC] even says that any increase in >>water vapor in the atmosphere is due to increases in atmospheric >>temperature. Therefore, the increased atmospheric temperature must be due >>to something other than increased water vapor. And if there is increased >>water vapor in the atmosphere it is due to increased atmospheric temp. >> >>The following is from http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html >> >>"Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, which >>is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its concentration >>is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the >>warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of >>industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is >>critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet is >>still fairly poorly measured and understood. >> >>As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated from >>ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is >>warmer, the relative humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is able >>to 'hold' more water when its warmer), leading to more water vapor in the >>atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water vapor >>is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, >>thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then hold >>more water vapor and so on and so on. This is referred to as a 'positive >>feedback loop'. However, huge scientific uncertainty exists in defining >>the extent and importance of this feedback loop. As water vapor increases >>in the atmosphere, more of it will eventually also condense into clouds, >>which are more able to reflect incoming solar radiation (thus allowing >>less energy to reach the Earth's surface and heat it up). The future >>monitoring of atmospheric processes involving water vapor will be >>critical to fully understand the feedbacks in the climate system leading >>to global climate change. As yet, though the basics of the hydrological >>cycle are fairly well understood, we have very little comprehension of >>the complexity of the feedback loops. Also, while we have good >>atmospheric measurements of other key greenhouse gases such as carbon >>dioxide and methane, we have poor measurements of global water vapor, so >>it is not certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in >>recent decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined with >>balloon data and some in-situ ground measurements indicate generally >>positive trends in global water vapor." >> >>The website: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html >> >>That Steven Dapra sites appears to be promoting coal as an energy source, >>which is another source of CO2 when burned. This makes you wonder if they >>are not bias in their presentation of global warming. Check out the >>discussion of strip mining: >> >>http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/StripMiner.html >> >>Bob > >[edit] > > > >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Robert Casparius Radiation Safety Officer AECOM Department of Environmental Health & Safety x2243 http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ehs/Secondary%20Sites/AE_Radiation.htm From mborisky at arl.army.mil Fri Mar 23 09:40:57 2007 From: mborisky at arl.army.mil (Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO)) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:40:57 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: <281217.43791.qm@web50106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <000b01c76d26$e9a2bd90$9dc8a182@Irisbq> <281217.43791.qm@web50106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Doesn't anyone appreciate the energy response virtues and senstivity of the tissue equivalent microrem/hr meter? Mike Borisky Army Research Lab -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sam Iverstine Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 8:35 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Great topic. Great link to energy response curves. One's employer could spend less on an ion chamber than the two days of your time and large errors associated with applying curves and filters, in my opinion. But it might be fun to overcome the challenge. This brings me to my question for radsafe: What is the best hand held ion chamber to purchase for mainly radiology uses? The best I can find are the 450 and 451P's by Victoreen. Sometimes these meters give erratic readings due to temperature or mechanical agitation (dropping). They do have a good response rate and accurate digital readout over all energies of interest. The plastic case is water-resistant and filters fewer low energy photons (than a metallic encased meter). But there must be something better in this millennia? Thanks for any response. Sam Iverstine, MS, CHP Aad van der Kooij wrote: Well, by the time I received this message it was Friday ... The response of a GM tube can be tuned by using filters around (parts of)the tube. For example: http://www.hps.org/hpspublications/articles/allard.html And yes, you are right about questioning what is going on! Dose rates are expressed per unit of time and(TGIF)dose in Sv so: Sv.h-1 -) Enjoy your weekend! Aad van der Kooij RPO TU Delft (NL) -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:20 To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. First a short introduction: My current employer appears to be mandating/authorizing the use of Geiger Mueller (GM) detectors to measure dose rates in Roentgens (the meters read "capital" R, not "r") . As many of you know, a given instrument intended for performing quantitative measurements will respond differently to various energies of a given radiation, and a GM tube's response is quite energy dependent. As the GM's are calibrated with Cs-137 the response to other x-ray/gamma sources (of other energies/strength) can be quite different than what one would measure with an ion chamber - i.e. the energy dependence of the instrument must be known and accounted for in order to make accurate quantitative measurements. A short Discussion: I'm not sure that my employer realizes that by utilizing a GM for measurement of (a wide energy-range of) gamma/x-rays they are creating the potential for overexposure conditions (where in some/many cases one should be utilizing an ion chamber). Exposure vs dose, Bragg-Gray and kerma considerations put aside for now, I was taught to always utilize an Ion Chamber if I REALLY wanted to know the dose-rates (I use a pressurized ion-chamber myself for a wider range of energy response). After all, last I knew, "exposure" was still defined in terms of the amount of ionization charge created in AIR - and I believe that the fundamental SI unit of exposure still corresponds to that amount of x-or gamma radiation who's associated secondary electrons create an ionization charge of on coulomb per kilogram of dry air at STP. Anyone know of a GM that utilizes 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen for a counting gas? So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh Std. Disclaimer... The thoughts, discussion and opinion(s) above are mine and mine only, not that of my employer and, of course, I am in no way asserting/suggesting that my employer is doing anything wrong. This is only a topic for a philosophical Health Physics discussion and I would value your opinion(s) on the matter. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE From Tom_Johnston at nymc.edu Fri Mar 23 11:22:07 2007 From: Tom_Johnston at nymc.edu (Johnston, Thomas) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:22:07 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20070323095950.034a8010@pop.aecom.yu.edu> Message-ID: <70C50B8807B54A429AC206E83A3BA6BC160D3DAE@mail.nymc.edu> There was an interesting segment on national network news about several major colleges prohibiting the use of Wikipedia as a reference for any college work. Just a note to pass along. Buyer, er, Reader Beware. But I am sure most of you know not to trust all online sources already... Tom -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Bob Casparius Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:04 AM To: Steven Dapra; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Steven, This is from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas and accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect. Water vapor concentrations fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not directly affect water vapor concentrations except at very local scales. In climate models an increase in atmospheric temperature caused by the greenhouse effect due to anthropogenic gases will in turn lead to an increase in the water vapor content of the troposphere, with approximately constant relative humidity. The increased water vapor in turn leads to an increase in the greenhouse effect and thus a further increase in temperature; the increase in temperature leads to still further increase in atmospheric water vapor; and the feedback cycle continues until equilibrium is reached. Thus water vapor acts as a positive feedback to the forcing provided by human-released greenhouse gases such as CO2[9] (but has never, so far, acted on Earth as part of a runaway feedback). Changes in water vapor may also have indirect effects via cloud formation. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) IPCC Third Assessment Report chapter lead author Michael Mann considers citing "the role of water vapor as a greenhouse gas" to be "extremely misleading" as water vapor can not be controlled by humans.[10][11][12] The IPCC report has discussed water vapor feedback in more detail.[13] Bob At 09:26 PM 3/22/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: >March 22 > > My thanks to Bob Casparius for posting this very clear NCDC > explanation of the role of water vapor, accompanied by the explanation of > what we *do not* know. > > So there is no confusion or uncertainty on anyone's part, that > link I offered was not to my site, nor do I necessarily accept everything > that was said on the site. (See the end of Bob's posting.) I do not > know if the site was promoting coal or not and can't comment on > that. Bob suggested that the site might be biased in its discussion of > global warming and his suggestion may well be true, I don't know. It > cannot be said often enough that *everyone* has a bias, and we might do > well to keep that in mind. With respect to strip mining, it may not be a > pretty sight, however it has nothing to do with global warming. The > UMTRA project left us with some rather large tailings piles. I know some > of that is from bomb production, however some of it is from reactor fuel > too -- at least I assume it is. I could stand to be corrected on that point. > >Steven Dapra >sjd at swcp.com > > > >At 02:57 PM 3/22/07 -0400, Bob Casparius wrote: >>The National Climate Data Center [NCDC] even says that any increase in >>water vapor in the atmosphere is due to increases in atmospheric >>temperature. Therefore, the increased atmospheric temperature must be due >>to something other than increased water vapor. And if there is increased >>water vapor in the atmosphere it is due to increased atmospheric temp. >> >>The following is from http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html >> >>"Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, which >>is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its concentration >>is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the >>warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of >>industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is >>critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet is >>still fairly poorly measured and understood. >> >>As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated from >>ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is >>warmer, the relative humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is able >>to 'hold' more water when its warmer), leading to more water vapor in the >>atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water vapor >>is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, >>thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then hold >>more water vapor and so on and so on. This is referred to as a 'positive >>feedback loop'. However, huge scientific uncertainty exists in defining >>the extent and importance of this feedback loop. As water vapor increases >>in the atmosphere, more of it will eventually also condense into clouds, >>which are more able to reflect incoming solar radiation (thus allowing >>less energy to reach the Earth's surface and heat it up). The future >>monitoring of atmospheric processes involving water vapor will be >>critical to fully understand the feedbacks in the climate system leading >>to global climate change. As yet, though the basics of the hydrological >>cycle are fairly well understood, we have very little comprehension of >>the complexity of the feedback loops. Also, while we have good >>atmospheric measurements of other key greenhouse gases such as carbon >>dioxide and methane, we have poor measurements of global water vapor, so >>it is not certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in >>recent decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined with >>balloon data and some in-situ ground measurements indicate generally >>positive trends in global water vapor." >> >>The website: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html >> >>That Steven Dapra sites appears to be promoting coal as an energy source, >>which is another source of CO2 when burned. This makes you wonder if they >>are not bias in their presentation of global warming. Check out the >>discussion of strip mining: >> >>http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/StripMiner.html >> >>Bob > >[edit] > > > >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Robert Casparius Radiation Safety Officer AECOM Department of Environmental Health & Safety x2243 http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ehs/Secondary%20Sites/AE_Radiation.htm _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From cary_rdsfe at pacbell.net Fri Mar 23 12:37:21 2007 From: cary_rdsfe at pacbell.net (Cary Renquist) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement (UNCLASSIFIED) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <54289.47671.qm@web82410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The tissue equivalent urem is useful, but... Caveat Emptor: The tissue equivalent microrem/h meter is still a pulse mode device -- like a GM. Like a GM -- it tends to overestimate the dose from lower energy sources (it is probably much better than a NaI microrem meter, but not better than an ion chamber). Measuring Gd-153 (two ~100 keV photons) with a tissue equivalent microrem will give a reading ~50% higher than an ion chamber (ion chamber and microrem both calibrated to Cs-137). Also, there are safety issues for not using pulse-mode dose rate meters -- I'm not going to grab a GM-based dose rate meter or a pulse-mode urem if I am checking out potentially high dose rate fields. A person with one type of dose rate meter is always sure of their exposure, a person with two is never quite sure. Best regards, Cary -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Borisky, Michael (Civ, ARL/ADLO) Sent: Friday, 23 March, 2007 06:41 To: Sam Iverstine; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement (UNCLASSIFIED) Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Doesn't anyone appreciate the energy response virtues and senstivity of the tissue equivalent microrem/hr meter? Mike Borisky Army Research Lab -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sam Iverstine Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 8:35 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Great topic. Great link to energy response curves. One's employer could spend less on an ion chamber than the two days of your time and large errors associated with applying curves and filters, in my opinion. But it might be fun to overcome the challenge. This brings me to my question for radsafe: What is the best hand held ion chamber to purchase for mainly radiology uses? The best I can find are the 450 and 451P's by Victoreen. Sometimes these meters give erratic readings due to temperature or mechanical agitation (dropping). They do have a good response rate and accurate digital readout over all energies of interest. The plastic case is water-resistant and filters fewer low energy photons (than a metallic encased meter). But there must be something better in this millennia? Thanks for any response. Sam Iverstine, MS, CHP Aad van der Kooij wrote: Well, by the time I received this message it was Friday ... The response of a GM tube can be tuned by using filters around (parts of)the tube. For example: http://www.hps.org/hpspublications/articles/allard.html And yes, you are right about questioning what is going on! Dose rates are expressed per unit of time and(TGIF)dose in Sv so: Sv.h-1 -) Enjoy your weekend! Aad van der Kooij RPO TU Delft (NL) -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Baumbaugh, Joel SPAWAR Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:20 To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement Yes, I know this isn't Friday, but I have a philosophical question for the group. First a short introduction: My current employer appears to be mandating/authorizing the use of Geiger Mueller (GM) detectors to measure dose rates in Roentgens (the meters read "capital" R, not "r") . As many of you know, a given instrument intended for performing quantitative measurements will respond differently to various energies of a given radiation, and a GM tube's response is quite energy dependent. As the GM's are calibrated with Cs-137 the response to other x-ray/gamma sources (of other energies/strength) can be quite different than what one would measure with an ion chamber - i.e. the energy dependence of the instrument must be known and accounted for in order to make accurate quantitative measurements. A short Discussion: I'm not sure that my employer realizes that by utilizing a GM for measurement of (a wide energy-range of) gamma/x-rays they are creating the potential for overexposure conditions (where in some/many cases one should be utilizing an ion chamber). Exposure vs dose, Bragg-Gray and kerma considerations put aside for now, I was taught to always utilize an Ion Chamber if I REALLY wanted to know the dose-rates (I use a pressurized ion-chamber myself for a wider range of energy response). After all, last I knew, "exposure" was still defined in terms of the amount of ionization charge created in AIR - and I believe that the fundamental SI unit of exposure still corresponds to that amount of x-or gamma radiation who's associated secondary electrons create an ionization charge of on coulomb per kilogram of dry air at STP. Anyone know of a GM that utilizes 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen for a counting gas? So, in conclusion: Am I wrong to be questioning what's going on here? Is the use of GM's for quantitative/qualitative measurement of gamma/x-ray dose now an accepted protocol? Thanks (ahead of time) for your thoughts. Joel Baumbaugh Std. Disclaimer... The thoughts, discussion and opinion(s) above are mine and mine only, not that of my employer and, of course, I am in no way asserting/suggesting that my employer is doing anything wrong. This is only a topic for a philosophical Health Physics discussion and I would value your opinion(s) on the matter. From caspar at aecom.yu.edu Fri Mar 23 12:40:56 2007 From: caspar at aecom.yu.edu (Bob Casparius) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:40:56 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism In-Reply-To: <70C50B8807B54A429AC206E83A3BA6BC160D3DAE@mail.nymc.edu> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20070323095950.034a8010@pop.aecom.yu.edu> <70C50B8807B54A429AC206E83A3BA6BC160D3DAE@mail.nymc.edu> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20070323124844.033a9e88@pop.aecom.yu.edu> Yes, I was hesitant about using it as a source. However, it does look impressive and you can always have some skepticism regarding the source. Compare this to geocraft.com which Steven Dapra submitted as a reference with no info on the purpose or explanation of the website. However since then I found the following: http://www.nsc.org/EHC/climate/ccucla6.htm http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/296/5568/665 http://usasearch.gov/search?input-form=simple-firstgov&v%3Aproject=firstgov&query=water+vapor+global+warming&affiliate=noaa.gov Bob At 12:22 PM 3/23/2007, Johnston, Thomas wrote: >There was an interesting segment on national network news about several >major colleges prohibiting the use of Wikipedia as a reference for any >college work. Just a note to pass along. Buyer, er, Reader Beware. >But I am sure most of you know not to trust all online sources >already... > >Tom > >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On >Behalf Of Bob Casparius >Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:04 AM >To: Steven Dapra; radsafe at radlab.nl >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism > >Steven, > >This is from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas > >Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas and accounts for the > >largest percentage of the greenhouse effect. Water vapor concentrations >fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not directly affect water >vapor concentrations except at very local scales. > >In climate models an >increase in atmospheric temperature caused by the greenhouse effect due >to >anthropogenic gases will in turn lead to an increase in the water vapor >content of the troposphere, with approximately constant >relative humidity. > >The increased water vapor in turn leads to an increase in the greenhouse > >effect and thus a further increase in temperature; the increase in >temperature leads to still further increase in atmospheric water vapor; >and >the feedback cycle continues until equilibrium is reached. Thus water >vapor >acts as a positive feedback to the forcing provided by human-released >greenhouse gases such as CO2[9] >(but >has never, so far, acted on Earth as part of a runaway feedback). >Changes >in water vapor may also have indirect effects via cloud formation. > >hange>Intergovernmental >Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) >IPCC >Third >Assessment Report chapter lead author >Michael > >Mann considers citing "the role of water vapor as a greenhouse gas" to >be >"extremely misleading" as water vapor can not be controlled by >humans.[10]rg/wiki/#_note-9>[11][12] >The IPCC report has discussed water vapor feedback in more >detail.[13] > >Bob > > >At 09:26 PM 3/22/2007, Steven Dapra wrote: > >March 22 > > > > My thanks to Bob Casparius for posting this very clear NCDC > > explanation of the role of water vapor, accompanied by the explanation >of > > what we *do not* know. > > > > So there is no confusion or uncertainty on anyone's part, that > > > link I offered was not to my site, nor do I necessarily accept >everything > > that was said on the site. (See the end of Bob's posting.) I do >not > > know if the site was promoting coal or not and can't comment on > > that. Bob suggested that the site might be biased in its discussion >of > > global warming and his suggestion may well be true, I don't know. It > > cannot be said often enough that *everyone* has a bias, and we might >do > > well to keep that in mind. With respect to strip mining, it may not >be a > > pretty sight, however it has nothing to do with global warming. The > > UMTRA project left us with some rather large tailings piles. I know >some > > of that is from bomb production, however some of it is from reactor >fuel > > too -- at least I assume it is. I could stand to be corrected on that >point. > > > >Steven Dapra > >sjd at swcp.com > > > > > > > >At 02:57 PM 3/22/07 -0400, Bob Casparius wrote: > >>The National Climate Data Center [NCDC] even says that any increase in > > >>water vapor in the atmosphere is due to increases in atmospheric > >>temperature. Therefore, the increased atmospheric temperature must be >due > >>to something other than increased water vapor. And if there is >increased > >>water vapor in the atmosphere it is due to increased atmospheric temp. > >> > >>The following is from http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html > >> > >>"Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, >which > >>is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its >concentration > >>is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the > >>warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of > >>industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is > >>critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet >is > >>still fairly poorly measured and understood. > >> > >>As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated >from > >>ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is > >>warmer, the relative humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is >able > >>to 'hold' more water when its warmer), leading to more water vapor in >the > >>atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water >vapor > >>is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, > > >>thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then >hold > >>more water vapor and so on and so on. This is referred to as a >'positive > >>feedback loop'. However, huge scientific uncertainty exists in >defining > >>the extent and importance of this feedback loop. As water vapor >increases > >>in the atmosphere, more of it will eventually also condense into >clouds, > >>which are more able to reflect incoming solar radiation (thus allowing > > >>less energy to reach the Earth's surface and heat it up). The future > >>monitoring of atmospheric processes involving water vapor will be > >>critical to fully understand the feedbacks in the climate system >leading > >>to global climate change. As yet, though the basics of the >hydrological > >>cycle are fairly well understood, we have very little comprehension of > > >>the complexity of the feedback loops. Also, while we have good > >>atmospheric measurements of other key greenhouse gases such as carbon > >>dioxide and methane, we have poor measurements of global water vapor, >so > >>it is not certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in > > >>recent decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined >with > >>balloon data and some in-situ ground measurements indicate generally > >>positive trends in global water vapor." > >> > >>The website: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html > >> > >>That Steven Dapra sites appears to be promoting coal as an energy >source, > >>which is another source of CO2 when burned. This makes you wonder if >they > >>are not bias in their presentation of global warming. Check out the > >>discussion of strip mining: > >> > >>http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/StripMiner.html > >> > >>Bob > > > >[edit] > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > > >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > >Robert Casparius >Radiation Safety Officer >AECOM >Department of Environmental Health & Safety >x2243 > >http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ehs/Secondary%20Sites/AE_Radiation.htm >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ Robert Casparius Radiation Safety Officer AECOM Department of Environmental Health & Safety x2243 http://www.aecom.yu.edu/ehs/Secondary%20Sites/AE_Radiation.htm From Kjell.Johansen at nmcco.com Fri Mar 23 13:58:20 2007 From: Kjell.Johansen at nmcco.com (Johansen, Kjell) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:58:20 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) In-Reply-To: <20070322235521.1952.qmail@web83512.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6E999D91381B654185EB8E041550140B013657B0@enex02.ft.nmcco.net> That warming period is not exactly applicable to today's situation. The CO2 concentrations then were at about 50-70% of what they are now. So, until we can understand the reason for the warming in terms of the operable parameters when it occurred, we will not know how to properly devise a mechanism to explain it. If we postulate that the brief warming period were due to increased solar output, then the warming effect would be greater this time around due to the higher atmospheric CO2 concentration. Another consideration is the effect of "freshening" the ocean with glacial water. Changing the currents due to an influx of fresh water could lead to erosion of oceanic sediments off the East Coast. There are tons of methane trapped in the sediments there. Also, warming the Arctic can release the vast amount of methane stored in the 'frozen tundra." With CH4 having 16x the greenhouse forcing of CO2, this global warming feedback looks really bad. As they used to say on Star Trek, the weather will be "going where no man has gone before." Kjell Johansen Point Beach All opinions express are absolutely my own and my not be those of my employer. ________________________________ From: howard long [mailto:hflong at pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 6:55 PM To: Flood, John; Sandy Perle; Johansen, Kjell; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) When there WAS "global warming" a thousand years ago (when Greenland was green), was England "like Greenland' (frozen?) or like Robin Hood stories of life in Sherwood Forest? Theory vs History. Howard Long "Flood, John" wrote: Interesting that this phenomenon was just "discovered" - the influence of fresh water from melting glaciers on the three-dimensional large scale ocean currents was a topic covered in a climatology class I took in college. And I won't be admitting how many decades ago that was. The example used in class was to show how large scale melting of the northern hemisphere ice cap would probably move the Gulf Stream enough to turn England into something more like Iceland. John R. (Bob) Flood Acting Manager Radiological Health Nevada Test Site (702) 295-2514 -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Sandy Perle Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:26 AM To: 'Johansen, Kjell'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism (article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia) Kyell, Interesting article today. Southern Ocean current faces slowdown threat By Michael Byrnes Thu Mar 22, 2:03 AM ET HOBART (Reuters) - The impact of global warming on the vast Southern Ocean around Antarctica is starting to pose a threat to ocean currents that distribute heat around the world, Australian scientists say, citing new deep-water data. Melting ice-sheets and glaciers in Antarctica are releasing fresh water, interfering with the formation of dense "bottom water," which sinks 4-5 kilometers to the ocean floor and helps drive the world's ocean circulation system. A slowdown in the system known as "overturning circulation" would affect the way the ocean, which absorbs 85 percent of atmospheric heat, carries heat around the globe. "If the water gets fresh enough ... then it won't matter how much ice we form, we won't be able to make this water cold and salty enough to sink," said Steve Rintoul, a senior scientist at the Australian government-funded CSIRO Marine Science. "Changes would be felt ... around the globe," said Rintoul, who recently led a multinational team of scientists on an expedition to sample deep-basin water south of Western Australia to the Antarctic. Water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor is formed in polar regions by surface water freezing, which concentrates salt in very cold water beneath the ice. The dense water then sinks. Only a few places around Antarctica and in the northern Atlantic create water dense enough to sink to the ocean floor, making Antarctic "bottom water" crucial to global ocean currents. But the freshening of Antarctic deep water was a sign that the "overturning circulation" system in the world's oceans might be slowing down, Rintoul said, and similar trends are occurring in the North Atlantic. For the so-called Atlantic Conveyor, the surface warm water current meets the Greenland ice sheet then cools and sinks, heading south again and driving the conveyor belt process. But researchers fear increased melting of the Greenland ice sheet risks disrupting the conveyor. If it stops, temperatures in northern Europe would plunge. Rintoul, who has led teams tracking water density around the Antarctic through decades of readings, said his findings add to concerns about a "strangling" of the Southern Ocean by greenhouse gases and global warming. Australian scientists warned last month that waters surrounding Antarctica were also becoming more acidic as they absorbed more carbon dioxide produced by nations burning fossil fuels. Acidification of the ocean is affecting the ability of plankton -- microscopic marine plants, animals and bacteria -- to absorb carbon dioxide, reducing the ocean's ability to sink greenhouse gases to the bottom of the sea. Rintoul said that global warming was also changing wind patterns in the Antarctic region, drawing them south away from the Australian mainland and causing declining rainfall in western and possibly eastern coastal areas. This was contributing to drought in Australia, one of the world's top agricultural producers, he said. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Johansen, Kjell Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:51 AM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Therefore, I conclude that the extremist position is the one taken by the person who sits around wanting more conclusive proof before taking any action to lower the consequences of global climate change. Kjell Johansen Whitefish Bay, WI _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From rhelbig at california.com Sat Mar 24 04:28:34 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:28:34 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] HB1046 Bill Status Message-ID: <009301c76df7$0e637fe0$16435142@roger1> The preamble of this bill is loaded with false information .. Generated on 3/23/2007 10:01:06 PM Measure Title: RELATING TO HEALTH. Report Title: Depleted Uranium; Health Effects; Environmental Impact ($) Description: Provides access for all returning veterans to a health screening test for exposure to depleted uranium. Establishes a task force to study the health effects of depleted uranium exposure. Requires an environmental impact study on storage and disposal of depleted uranium munitions on Oahu. Package: None Companion: SB1708 Introducer(s): CARROLL, TAKUMI, TSUJI, YAMASHITA, Brower, Hanohano, Lee, Sonson, Tokioka Current Referral: PSM/HLT, EEP, FIN Date Status Text 1/22/2007 H Pending introduction. 1/24/2007 H Introduced and Pass First Reading. 1/24/2007 H Referred to PSM/HLT, EEP, FIN, referral sheet 4 $ = Appropriation measure ConAm = Constitutional Amendment http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/docs/getstatus2.asp?billno=HB1046 From gary at pageturners.com Sat Mar 24 21:16:52 2007 From: gary at pageturners.com (Gary Damschen) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 22:16:52 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism Message-ID: <003b01c76e83$a7c4eb60$f74ec220$@com> I haven't seen any response to my earlier request for comments on the theory presented at http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm by Dr. Roy Spencer. Since it deals directly with the current topic of this thread, I'm reposting the request. On his site, Dr. Spencer argues that the hard data (actual satellite measurements) do not support the generally accepted hydrologic cycle with respect to the behavior of water vapor in response to warming. He makes the case that precipitation (not evaporation) controls atmospheric water vapor concentrations and temperatures, not the other way around. He also argues that the dismissal of the poorly understood role of precipitation processes in regulating global temperatures may be leading us to false conclusions about the effects of anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions on the climate and that the climate models being used to forecast global warming have the effects of water vapor backwards - that observation of actual water vapor behavior indicates that it provides *negative* feedback to increased temperatures, not the positive feedback used in the models. Now, I know this flies in the face of GW orthodoxy, but it seems to me he makes a plausible case. And if his case is plausible, then it seems like we need to focus on understanding the effects of precipitation cycles on global climate a LOT better before we spend any more time researching and/or proposing shooting millions of tiny mirrors into the atmosphere to reflect sunlight back into space, or creating giant CO2 sequestration systems, or any of the other wild ideas that seem to be floating about these days. Please understand that I am not saying that conservation is a bad thing. I think that it is prudent to make the best use we can of the resources we have to make life better for as many people as possible. However, banning incandescent light bulbs and mandating fluorescents with resultant mercury disposal problems, or mandating higher CAFE standards with resultant traffic fatality increases because of lighter vehicle construction, or refusing loans to third world countries if they won't use "green" power sources that won't meet their needs are the wrong answers to the problems. I've tried to keep an open mind as I have researched the evidence for and against anthropogenic global warming (AGW). From what I can see, there are enough things we do not know about how the Earth's climate is regulated, enough instances where observed climate behavior does not match model predictions, that if we are really honest about what we do and don't know, we have to admit we are nowhere near being able to conclusively state that the warming observed over the last 20 years or so is man-caused. At best, this appears to still be a belief issue, like a heliocentric solar system, or bacterial causes for ulcers, or plate tectonics were until experimentation and observation provided sufficient evidence to back the theories that they became accepted as fact. What bothers me is that somehow current AGW theory has become the "unquestionable truth" - all dissent is disallowed and all dissenters must be publicly humiliated and punished. Don't buy into the theory? Your professional credentials should be revoked, your funding sources questioned, and your personal integrity impugned. What happened to continuously testing hypotheses, constantly trying to falsify theories as Einstein did with his own theories? Now, it seems that if the data don't fit the model, toss the nonconforming data as "outliers" and ridicule anyone with the audacity to point out the discrepancies. Sorry for the rant, I may have gotten cranky as I've gotten older. I'm just saddened that Science, which I dearly love, seems to be losing its reasonableness on this issue. -Gary [snip] ... They clearly understand that water vapor needs warmer atmospheric temperatures in order to increase in concentration. So it is not the water vapor that is causing the rise in temperatures. It is the increase in temperature that may be causing the increase in water vapor. Which brings us back to CO2 causing the increase in atmospheric temps. causing an increase in the amount of water vapor, which as we agree is a greenhouse gas. So maybe it is contributing to the problem. But only because it is a by-product of the original problem man-made CO2 being dumped into the atmosphere. [/snip] From jim.dukelow at pnl.gov Sat Mar 24 23:41:30 2007 From: jim.dukelow at pnl.gov (Dukelow, James S Jr) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 21:41:30 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism References: <003b01c76e83$a7c4eb60$f74ec220$@com> Message-ID: Gary Damschen wrote: -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of Gary Damschen Sent: Sat 3/24/2007 7:16 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: extremism I haven't seen any response to my earlier request for comments on the theory presented at http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm by Dr. Roy Spencer. Since it deals directly with the current topic of this thread, I'm reposting the request. ================= I am putting together a response. Unlike most people writing on the sceptic/denialist side, Roy Spencer is a serious scientist and deserves a serious response. Best regards. Jim Dukelow Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Richland, WA jim.dukelow at pnl.gov These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my management or by the U.S. Department of Energy. From wesvanpelt at verizon.net Sun Mar 25 08:46:18 2007 From: wesvanpelt at verizon.net (WesVanPelt) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 09:46:18 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] GM vs ion chamber for dose measurement In-Reply-To: <281217.43791.qm@web50106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <000b01c76d26$e9a2bd90$9dc8a182@Irisbq> <281217.43791.qm@web50106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008101c76ee3$f7df0c10$2f01a8c0@D7XYRT61> Radsafers, I have used the Victoreen 450 for years. It has good and bad features, but overall is a good dose rate instrument. One "feature" that may mislead when measuring low dose rates is this. The digital display will not show a negative dose rate. Why is this an issue? If the instrument drifts out of calibration and reads less than zero, it shows a positive number. In other words -0.015 mrem/h will display as +0.015 mrem/h. I have slowly moved a source closer to the instrument and watched the display drop to zero and then go up again. I mentioned this problem to Victoreen many times, but they never had any interest in correcting it. Does anyone know if the current ion chamber ratemeter models show this "feature"? PS. I know that Victoreen is out of business, but I forget who now owns their ion chamber ratemeter product line. Wes New email: wesvanpelt at verizon.net Wesley R. Van Pelt, PhD, CIH, CHP Radiation Safety & Environmental Radioactivity Wesley R. Van Pelt Associates, Inc. ...... This brings me to my question for radsafe: What is the best hand held ion chamber to purchase for mainly radiology uses? The best I can find are the 450 and 451P's by Victoreen. Sometimes these meters give erratic readings due to temperature or mechanical agitation (dropping). They do have a good response rate and accurate digital readout over all energies of interest. The plastic case is water-resistant and filters fewer low energy photons (than a metallic encased meter). But there must be something better in this millennia? ...... From idias at interchange.ubc.ca Sun Mar 25 10:04:00 2007 From: idias at interchange.ubc.ca (John R Johnson) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:04:00 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radon regulations Message-ID: <73AF777F83C84E9DA45CF8F8A03880AF@JohnPC> Radsafers Does anyone have a list of radon regulations in the European Union countries and other non-North American countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Japan, etc? I am comparing regulations in British Colombia to those used elsewhere. Thanks in advance John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca From theo at richel.org Sun Mar 25 15:31:17 2007 From: theo at richel.org (Theo Richel) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 22:31:17 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Feinendegen piece searched In-Reply-To: <73AF777F83C84E9DA45CF8F8A03880AF@JohnPC> Message-ID: <011101c76f1c$8acf7e50$0c00a8c0@stationsstr43.richel.org> Would anyone have the following piece available as a pdf? A copy would be much appreciated. Exp Hematol. 2007 Apr;35(4 Suppl 1):37-46. Whole-body responses to low-level radiation exposure: New concepts in mammalian radiobiology. Feinendegen LE, Pollycove M, Neumann RD. Thanks, Theo Richel Stationsstraat 43 4421 AK Kapelle theo at richel.org Tel. +31 (0)113330030 Fax +31 (0)113330031 http://www.richel.org/resume http://www.groenerekenkamer.nl http://www.huiselijkgeweld.info e/ From sandyfl at cox.net Sun Mar 25 15:42:01 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:42:01 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Feinendegen piece searched In-Reply-To: <011101c76f1c$8acf7e50$0c00a8c0@stationsstr43.richel.org> Message-ID: <2099866F46DCA04E83F1600E6274AA2C036FB72B@gdses.corp.gds.com> Theo, This is the abstract as found on the PubMed.gov site... stating that the article should be published in April 2007. Perhaps one of the authors will send you a copy (some do read Radsafe). Whole-body responses to low-level radiation exposure: New concepts in mammalian radiobiology. Feinendegen LE, Pollycove M, Neumann RD. Department of Nuclear Medicine, Heinrich-Heine University, Dusseldorf, Germany; and Medical Department, Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY, USA. This review of low dose-induced whole-body effects, especially cancer, shows: 1) Biological systems appear in hierarchy levels of organization, from atoms to molecules, to cells, to tissues and organs, to the whole system; 2) System responses to low-level exposures depend on: quality and number of energy depositions in tissue micromasses (microdoses) being potential triggers to damage and protection; time interval between two microdose events per exposed micromass, that determines cellular responses to the preceding microdose; and responses to microdose events in the system being the target, with the balance between damage and benefit determining the net effect; 3) System responses to acute or chronic low-level exposures evolve from damage to the basic molecular level, mainly to DNA of stem cells, and from adaptive responses that may occur in the whole body. Damage may propagate to successive higher levels of organization, meeting protective barriers which may become upregulated by adaptive responses. The balance between damage and protection at each level per individual depends on tissue dose. At single tissue doses below congruent with 0.1 Gy net benefit tends to outweigh detriment. Thus, progression of damage to clinical disease is not linear; 4) Quality and extent of system responses are under genetic control. Thus, system net responses expectedly vary among individuals; 5) The balance between health risk and benefit of low-level exposure for a given individual may become predictable by gene-expression profiles in control and irradiated cells of this individual; and 6) Clinical trials applying individualized low-level irradiation are justified. PMID: 17379086 [PubMed - in process] ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Tel: (949) 419-1000 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Theo Richel Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 1:31 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] Feinendegen piece searched Would anyone have the following piece available as a pdf? A copy would be much appreciated. Exp Hematol. 2007 Apr;35(4 Suppl 1):37-46. Whole-body responses to low-level radiation exposure: New concepts in mammalian radiobiology. Feinendegen LE, Pollycove M, Neumann RD. Thanks, Theo Richel Stationsstraat 43 4421 AK Kapelle theo at richel.org Tel. +31 (0)113330030 Fax +31 (0)113330031 http://www.richel.org/resume http://www.groenerekenkamer.nl http://www.huiselijkgeweld.info e/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From royherren2005 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 25 16:44:45 2007 From: royherren2005 at yahoo.com (ROY HERREN) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 14:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Meat and two neutrons -- the key to a longer life... Message-ID: <211286.34640.qm@web81607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Public release date: 25-Mar-2007 Contact: SCI Press Office press at soci.org 44-079-313-15077 Society of Chemical Industry Meat and two neutrons -- the key to a longer life Long-life isotopes of a different variety Indulging in an isotope-enhanced steak or chicken fillet every now and again could add as much as 10 years to your life. Scientists have shown for the first time that food enriched with natural isotopes builds bodily components that are more resistant to the processes of ageing. The concept has been demonstrated in worms and researchers hope that the same concept can help extend human life and reduce the risk of cancer and other diseases of ageing, reports Marina Murphy in Chemistry & Industry, the magazine of the SCI. A team led by Mikhail Shchepinov, formerly of Oxford University, fed nematode worms nutrients reinforced with natural isotopes (naturally occurring atomic variations of elements). In initial experiments, worms' life spans were extended by 10%, which, with humans expected to routinely coast close to the centenary, could add a further 10 years to human life. Food enhanced with isotopes is thought to produce bodily constituents and DNA more resistant to detrimental processes, like free radical attack. The isotopes replace atoms in susceptible bonds making these bonds stronger. 'Because these bonds are so much more stable, it should be possible to slow down the process of oxidation and ageing,' Shchepinov says. The isotopes could be used in animal feed so that humans could get the "age-defying" isotopes indirectly in steaks or chicken fillets, for example, rather than eating chemically enhanced products themselves. Shchepinov says an occasional top-up would be sufficient to have a beneficial effect. Ageing experts are impressed with the isotopic approach. Aubrey de Grey, the Cambridge-based gerontologist, says it could be very relevant to the rates of several chemical and enzymatic processes relevant to ageing 'It is a highly novel idea,' he says. 'But it remains to be seen whether it can be the source of practicable therapies, but it is a prospect that certainly cannot be ruled out.' Charles Cantor, a professor of biomechanical engineering at Boston University, said: 'Preliminary data indicates that this approach can potentially increase lifespan without adverse side effects. If this is borne out by further experiments the implications are profound.' Isotopes could also be used in pet food or as a means to protect workers or soldiers from radiation. Deuterium, a natural isotope of hydrogen (with 2 protons rather than one) could be used routinely. Previous successes in extending lifespan have involved withdrawing food to the point of near starvation, a process called caloric restriction. ### Please acknowledge Chemistry & Industry as the source of these items. If publishing online, please include a hyperlink to http://www.chemind.org Please note Chemistry & Industry uses '&' in its title, please do not correct to 'and'. Chemistry & Industry magazine from SCI delivers news and comment from the interface between science and business. As well as covering industry and science, it focuses on developments that will be of significant commercial interest in five- to ten-years time. Published twice-monthly and free to SCI Members, it also carries authoritative features and reviews. Opinion-formers worldwide respect Chemistry & Industry for its independent insight. SCI is a unique international forum where science meets business on independent, impartial ground. Anyone can join, and the Society offers a chance to share information between sectors as diverse as food and agriculture, pharmaceuticals, biotechnology, environmental science and safety. As well as publishing new research and running events, SCI has a growing database of member specialists who can give background information on a wide range of scientific issues. Originally established in 1881, SCI is a registered charity with members in over 70 countries. --------------------------------- Roy Herren --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. From Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk Mon Mar 26 01:42:08 2007 From: Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk (Dawson, Fred Mr) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 07:42:08 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Bacterium can survive doses of ionising radiation thousands of times stronger than would kill a human Message-ID: New Scientist reports:- Nicknamed Conan the Bacterium, Deinococcus radiodurans can survive doses of ionising radiation thousands of times stronger than would kill a human. So how does it do it? http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11447-tough-bug-reveals-key-to-rad iation-resistance.html Fred Dawson Fwp_dawson at hotmail.com From nicolas.brisson at irsn.fr Mon Mar 26 02:47:28 2007 From: nicolas.brisson at irsn.fr (BRISSON Nicolas) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:47:28 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radon regulations Message-ID: <98387DEB21286C479D2E9D157120E3FA0B032F@vmess101.proton.intra.irsn.fr> I can provide anyone interested with the French regulation regarding radon, but it is only available in French. This regulation only concerns buildings that receive people from the public (hospitals, schools, spas,...) and only in some parts of France. There has been a wide radon survey in buildings all over France during the 1990s and only the regions where radon concentrations over 1000 Bq/m3 were measured are truly concerned with the regulation. I can make a summary of our regulation in English for those who need it, just send me a private mail. Regards, Nicolas Brisson IRSN/DEI/SIAR 31, rue de l'Ecluse 78116 LE VESINET tel : 01-30-15-42-75 -----Message d'origine----- De?: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] De la part de John R Johnson Envoy??: dimanche 25 mars 2007 17:04 ??: radsafe at radlab.nl Objet?: [ RadSafe ] Radon regulations Radsafers Does anyone have a list of radon regulations in the European Union countries and other non-North American countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Japan, etc? I am comparing regulations in British Colombia to those used elsewhere. Thanks in advance John From jc.mora at ciemat.es Mon Mar 26 04:30:03 2007 From: jc.mora at ciemat.es (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mora_Ca=F1adas_Juan_Carlos?=) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 11:30:03 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radon regulations In-Reply-To: <73AF777F83C84E9DA45CF8F8A03880AF@JohnPC> Message-ID: <323CC54378D32E4FA54281642EF8A2EE01253C77@STR.ciemat.es> Good morning. You may find something on european recommendations related with radon at: http://ec.europa.eu/energy/nuclear/radioprotection/publication/doc/112_en.pdf For construction materials, and http://ec.europa.eu/energy/nuclear/radioprotection/doc/legislation/90143_en.pdf For indoor radon. Usually these recommendations are literally transposed to national laws. __________________________________________________________________ Juan Carlos Mora Ca?adas Unidad de Protecci?n Radiol?gica del P?blico y del Medio Ambiente CIEMAT - Edificio 3, Planta 0, Despacho 18. Avda. Complutense, 22 28040 Madrid Tlf. 91.346.66.83 Fax. 91.346.61.21 __________________________________________________________________ -----Mensaje original----- De: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] En nombre de John R Johnson Enviado el: domingo, 25 de marzo de 2007 17:04 Para: radsafe at radlab.nl Asunto: [ RadSafe ] Radon regulations Radsafers Does anyone have a list of radon regulations in the European Union countries and other non-North American countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Japan, etc? I am comparing regulations in British Colombia to those used elsewhere. Thanks in advance John *************** John R Johnson, PhD CEO, IDIAS, Inc. Vancouver, B. C. Canada (604) 222-9840 idias at interchange.ubc.ca _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From WesVanPelt at Verizon.net Mon Mar 26 08:11:42 2007 From: WesVanPelt at Verizon.net (Wes) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:11:42 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] EMF and brain tumors in animals In-Reply-To: <011101c76f1c$8acf7e50$0c00a8c0@stationsstr43.richel.org> References: <73AF777F83C84E9DA45CF8F8A03880AF@JohnPC> <011101c76f1c$8acf7e50$0c00a8c0@stationsstr43.richel.org> Message-ID: <00c701c76fa8$4e5fab70$2e01a8c0@DDHMVM11> Radsafers, Here is an article that claims that 95 per cent of animals exposed to electromagnetic radiation within the safe limits as per international standards may develop brain tumours. http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=1&theme=&usrsess=1&id=150944 At first I thought it was some really fringe stuff, but the author, Prof Jitendra Behari, seems very capable. A quick PubMed search (see below) shows some impressive research articles. Is anyone aware of this research? Best regards, Wes Wesley R. Van Pelt, PhD, CIH, CHP Wesley R. Van Pelt Associates, Inc. Some papers published by J Behari: 1: Behari J, Zeng G, Otruba W, Thompson MD, Muller P, Micsenyi A, Sekhon SS, Leoni L, Monga SP. Related Articles, Links Abstract R-Etodolac decreases beta-catenin levels along with survival and proliferation of hepatoma cells. J Hepatol. 2006 Dec 21; [Epub ahead of print] PMID: 17275129 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher] 2: Behari J, Paulraj R. Related Articles, Links Abstract Biomarkers of induced electromagnetic field and cancer. Indian J Exp Biol. 2007 Jan;45(1):77-85. Review. PMID: 17249331 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 3: Tan X, Behari J, Cieply B, Michalopoulos GK, Monga SP. Related Articles, Links Abstract Conditional deletion of beta-catenin reveals its role in liver growth and regeneration. Gastroenterology. 2006 Nov;131(5):1561-72. PMID: 17101329 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 4: Paulraj R, Behari J. Related Articles, Links Abstract Protein kinase C activity in developing rat brain cells exposed to 2.45 GHz radiation. Electromagn Biol Med. 2006;25(1):61-70. PMID: 16595335 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 5: Paulraj R, Behari J. Related Articles, Links Abstract Single strand DNA breaks in rat brain cells exposed to microwave radiation. Mutat Res. 2006 Apr 11;596(1-2):76-80. Epub 2006 Feb 2. PMID: 16458332 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 6: Behari J, Schoen RE, Blodgett TM, Federle MP. Related Articles, Links No abstract Functional imaging of a colon polyp. Gastrointest Endosc. 2005 May;61(6):733. No abstract available. PMID: 15855982 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 7: Jayanand, Behari J, Lochan R. Related Articles, Links Abstract Effects of low level pulsed radio frequency fields on induced osteoporosis in rat bone. Indian J Exp Biol. 2003 Jun;41(6):581-6. PMID: 15266903 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 8: Paulraj R, Behari J. Related Articles, Links Abstract Radio frequency radiation effects on protein kinase C activity in rats' brain. Mutat Res. 2004 Jan 12;545(1-2):127-30. PMID: 14698422 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 9: Behari J, Stagon L, Calderwood SB. Related Articles, Links Free in PMC pepA, a gene mediating pH regulation of virulence genes in Vibrio cholerae. J Bacteriol. 2001 Jan;183(1):178-88. PMID: 11114915 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 10: Behari J. Related Articles, Links Abstract Issues in electromagnetic field-biointeractions. Indian J Biochem Biophys. 1999 Oct;36(5):352-60. Review. PMID: 10844988 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 11: Paulraj R, Behari J, Rao AR. Related Articles, Links Abstract Effect of amplitude modulated RF radiation on calcium ion efflux and ODC activity in chronically exposed rat brain. Indian J Biochem Biophys. 1999 Oct;36(5):337-40. PMID: 10844985 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] From gary at pageturners.com Mon Mar 26 10:04:54 2007 From: gary at pageturners.com (Gary Damschen) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 11:04:54 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: article referencing scientists on global warming effect on Australia Message-ID: <00c801c76fb8$1cc11530$56433f90$@com> This story confuses me. The ice sheets are melting, assumedly because the temps are increasing. I thought that increased temps were supposed to *reduce* CO2 levels in the ocean, causing an increase in atmospheric CO2 that further warmed the ocean and released more CO2, creating a positive feedback loop. Yet this article seems to indicate that the increasing temperature is resulting in *increased* CO2 levels. What am I missing here? -Gary [snip] Melting ice-sheets and glaciers in Antarctica are releasing fresh water, interfering with the formation of dense "bottom water," which sinks 4-5 kilometers to the ocean floor and helps drive the world's ocean circulation system. A slowdown in the system known as "overturning circulation" would affect the way the ocean, which absorbs 85 percent of atmospheric heat, carries heat around the globe... Australian scientists warned last month that waters surrounding Antarctica were also becoming more acidic as they absorbed more carbon dioxide produced by nations burning fossil fuels. [/snip] From Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk Tue Mar 27 04:35:02 2007 From: Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk (Dawson, Fred Mr) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:35:02 +0100 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Government Policy on Low Level Radioactive Policy Message-ID: Government Policy on Low Level Radioactive policy The policy statement covers all aspects of the generation, management and regulation of solid LLW and applies to the following organisations: those responsible for the production and management of wastes (waste producers and managers); the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority (NDA); the regulatory bodies; the Food Standards Agency (FSA); waste disposal facility operators; and regional planning bodies; and planning authorities. http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/radioactivity/waste/pdf/llw-policyst atement070326.pdf Fred Dawson Fwp-dawson at hotmail.com From rhelbig at california.com Mon Mar 26 05:37:29 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 02:37:29 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Dr Mohammed Kobeissi's final DU Report Message-ID: <000201c77028$2939b900$57435142@roger1> From: "Mohammed Kobeissi" To: Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:31 AM Subject: DU I received this in a cordial communication from Dr Kobeissi today and decided to share it with the RADSAFE list. One of my concerns is that Dr Kobeissi may have received guidance from Doug Rokke and that certainly may have tainted the analysis. Roger Helbig "To make sure that I do collect the right samples I called a former US Army expert on missiles equipped with DU, describing to him the appearance of the craters soils and asking him for advice on which soil samples are appropriate to be taken as a sample for the investigation" I have asked Dr Kobeissi if this Army expert is Doug Rokke. Since Rokke wrote about the use of DU in Lebanon, I strongly suspect that Rokke is this "former US Army expert on missiles equipped with DU". From blainehoward at yahoo.com Tue Mar 27 21:21:18 2007 From: blainehoward at yahoo.com (Blaine Howard) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Dr Mohammed Kobeissi's final DU Report In-Reply-To: <000201c77028$2939b900$57435142@roger1> Message-ID: <20070328022118.84112.qmail@web50605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Roger, I have gone over the report by Dr. Mohammed Kobeissi and checked his calculations. I have experience in gamma spectroscopy and can confirm his results. I believe this to be reliable laboratory work. I also noted that the radium-226 content of the samples appear to be correct for normal soils. The uranium concentrations also appear reasonable for normal soils. It should be pointed out that there is a measurable amount of uranium in natural soil and that this does not constitute a health problem. The standard man from the Radiological Health Handbook contains 0.7 mg of uranium (700 times what Ms. Moret calls "lethal"). Uranium is a fact of life and the quantities Dr. Durakovic and Ms. Moret call dangerous are just normal healthy conditions. Sincerely, Blaine N. Howard, Health Physicist --- Roger Helbig wrote: > From: "Mohammed Kobeissi" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:31 AM > Subject: DU > > I received this in a cordial communication from Dr > Kobeissi today and decided to share it with the > RADSAFE list. One of my concerns is that Dr > Kobeissi may have received guidance from Doug Rokke > and that certainly may have tainted the analysis. > > Roger Helbig > > "To make sure that I do collect the right samples I > called a former US Army expert on missiles equipped > with DU, describing to him the appearance of the > craters soils and asking him for advice on which > soil samples are appropriate to be taken as a sample > for the investigation" > > I have asked Dr Kobeissi if this Army expert is Doug > Rokke. Since Rokke wrote about the use of DU in > Lebanon, I strongly suspect that Rokke is this > "former US Army expert on missiles equipped with > DU". > > From mso at forsmark.vattenfall.se Wed Mar 28 02:20:36 2007 From: mso at forsmark.vattenfall.se (Olsson Mattias :MSO) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:20:36 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The use of K-40 Message-ID: <6DB2631F05FDEF4D9F6F633E2FC8C7CF0A3000DD@PMSX1M.fka.forsmark.vattenfall.se> There was some talk about potassium on the list recently and I know that K-40 is sometimes used to verify the stability of on-line gamma monitors for for example stack emissions from power plants. It is usually argued that it gives a single, nice peak at such an energy (1,46 MeV) that it is not disturbed by background; neither does it cause much background since the source can be kept very small. (This concerns a shielded detector, of course.) I don't feel any need to question the past experiences of this nuclide as a verification sample but what I do wonder is: 1) How is K-40 manufactured (if it is...). Separation from K-39? Sounds expensive. 2) If K-40 is manufactured as a reasonably enriched product, who sells it? 3) Is this sort of use of K-40 a common practice? Have a good day, folks! -- PhD Mattias Olsson, FTKS Forsmarks Kraftgrupp AB SE-742 03 ?sthammar Sweden t. +46(0)173-81952 m. +46(0)705-801952 e. mso at forsmark.vattenfall.se From rhelbig at california.com Wed Mar 28 03:27:41 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 00:27:41 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Wikipedia article on "alpha decay" Message-ID: <018901c77113$e3bed440$f8425142@roger1> Radsafe members, here is a disturbing new effort by very active anti-DU crusaders on the net, rewrite the Wikipedia that many netziens use to learn about many things .. here are Bob Nichols, self-described journalist (he even went so far as to call himself a war correspondent even though he never left San Francisco area to report on the war!) comments on the accuracy of the Wikipedia information on Alpha decay and his suggestion that anti-DU activists rewrite it to better "inform" the public. Nichols, by the way is considered a "science guru" of this list and his sole experience is being the mouthpiece for Rokke and Moret This conversation is publicly available in AmericanDUST (DU Study Team) in the health section of Yahoo Groups - it can be accessed by Google among other things .. no dissenting information, that is information by anyone with any modicum of actual scientific knowledge, is permitted on this tightly monitored moderated list. Bob Nichols replies What an Excellent question, Romi! Let's see what we can put together. Certainly anything written by Leuren Moret, Doug Rokke, Dennis Kyne or Karen Parker. Also Upsilquitch, Asaf Durakovich, Tedd Weymann, Chris Busby, Rosalie Bertell, Marion Fulk, and Ernest Sternglass and myself, Bob Nichols. Who do you suggest? I would include the files on: AmericanDust, mindfully.org llrc.org UMRC.net I'll add more as I think of them. Any suggestions? Romi Elnagar of Baton Rouge, Louisiana asks Bob, What sources ARE good? I have been assuming that anything in print must not be good, since it would have to go through too many hoops to get published. So, what is left is information on the Net. Are there any sources of information that we CAN trust, and if so, where are they? Subject: Re: [AmericanDUST] Wikipedia article on "alpha decay" Romi, All, Yes, Wikipeda does their dead level best to slant their nuclear weapons derivatives articles and entries to favor the DOD/CIA/DOE stand on the perpetual use of radiation weapons. For that reason alone I encourage everyone to boycott Wikipedia and use alternative services. To give you but one example in these simple entries on Alpha radiation. All forms of Uranium are Alpha emitters. A milligram of uranium gives off about 1,251,000 powerful little Alpha "bullets" a day. Wiki-Lies says this in their careful whitewash of Uranium "Alpha particles have a typical kinetic energy of 5 MeV " What on earth is a 5 MeV you might ask? It means 5 Million Electron Volts. What does that mean you might ask? What is there to compare to it? Ha! The person or Committee who very carefully wrote this article to minimize the effect of Uranium radiation did Not mention that the Force measured in Electron Volts that holds the cells of our bodies together is about 10 Electron Volts. Not 10 Million! Just plain old 10 Electron Volts. Now what on earth do you think happens to a poor little old 10 eV cell in our bodies when it is hit with one 5 Million electron Volt Helium "bullet" after another? Don't be shy or timid, folks, speak up. What do you think happens? Bob On 3/27/07, Romi Elnagar wrote: While trying to understand the complexities of depleted uranium, I came across a suggestion to read the Wikipedia article on "alpha decay," specifically the section on "toxicity." For the benefit of you on this list who may also be mystified by the science of depleted uranium, here is that article. I have to caution you, however, that Wikipedia articles evidently are not entirely trustworthy. Perhaps when our science gurus have time, they can discover any flaws in this particular piece. Hajja Romi Alpha decay From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Alpha decay is a form of radioactive decay in which an atomic nucleus ejects an alpha particle through electromagnetic force and transforms into a nucleus with mass number 4 less and atomic number 2 less. For example: although this is usually written as: (The second form is also preferred because, to the casual observer, the first form appears electrically unbalanced. Fundamentally, the recoiling nucleus is soon stripped of two electrons to neutralize the hungry helium cation.) An alpha particle is a helium nucleus, and both mass number and atomic number are conserved. Alpha decay can essentially be thought of as nuclear fission where the parent nucleus splits into two daughter nuclei. Alpha decay is fundamentally a quantum tunneling process. Unlike beta decay, alpha decay is governed by the strong nuclear force . Alpha particles have a typical kinetic energy of 5 MeV (that is ??0.13% of their total energy, i.e. 110 TJ/kg) and a speed of 15,000 km/s. This corresponds to a velocity of around 0.05c. Even so, they are often absorbed within a few centimetres of air. Because of alpha decay, virtually all of the helium produced on Earth comes from trapped underground deposits associated with minerals containing uranium or thorium, and brought to the surface as a by-product of natural gas production. [ edit] History By 1928, George Gamow had solved the theory of the alpha decay via tunneling. The alpha particle is trapped in a potential well by the nucleus. Classically, it is forbidden to escape, but according to the then newly discovered principles of Quantum mechanics, it has a tiny (but non-zero) probability of "tunneling" through the barrier and appearing on the other side to escape the nucleus. [ edit] Toxicity As any heavy charged particle, alpha particles lose their energy within a very short distance in dense media, causing significant damage to surrounding biomolecules. Generally, external alpha irradiation is not harmful because alpha particles are completely absorbed by the thin layer of dead skin cells in the outermost layer of the skin as well as by a few centimeters of air. However, if a substance radiating alpha particles is ingested, inhaled by, injected into, or introduced through the skin (shrapnel, corrosive chemicals) into an organism it may become a risk, potentially inflicting very serious cellular damage. One common source of alpha radiation is radon, a naturally occurring, radioactive gas found in soil, rock and sometimes groundwater. When radon gas is inhaled, some of the radon gas and its associated decay particles stick to the inner lining of the lung. The decay particles that remain after the air is exhaled will continue to decay over time, damaging the lung's sensitive tissue. [1] Shrapnel from depleted uranium poses another such risk of alpha-emitters. The death of Marie Curie was caused by leukemia from exposure to alpha emitters such as radium during her years of work. The 2006 death of Russian dissident Alexander Litvinenko is thought to be due to his being poisoned with polonium-210 , an active alpha emitter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_decay From burcin.okyar at taek.gov.tr Wed Mar 28 06:14:52 2007 From: burcin.okyar at taek.gov.tr (H.Burcin OKYAR) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:14:52 +0300 Subject: [ RadSafe ] =?iso-8859-9?q?E-posta_g=F6nderiliyor=3A_ICRP=5Fappr?= =?iso-8859-9?q?oves=5Fnew=5Ffundamental=5FRecommendations?= Message-ID: <000f01c7712a$4e87b470$c169a8c0@Burcin> And finally new recommendations from ICRP. The announcement from ICRP web site is given below. For your information Burcin OKYAR TAEA ?leti, a?a??daki dosya veya ba?lant? eki ile g?nderilmeye haz?r: K?sayol: http://www.icrp.org/docs/ICRP_approves_new_fundamental_Recommendations.pdf Not: Bilgisayar vir?slerine kar?? korumak i?in, e-posta programlar? belirli dosya t?rlerini g?nderme ve almay? engelleyebilir. Eklerin nas?l i?lendi?ini g?rmek i?in e-posta g?venlik ayarlar?n?z? denetleyin. From loc at icx.net Wed Mar 28 11:01:39 2007 From: loc at icx.net (Susan Gawarecki) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 11:01:39 -0500 Subject: [ RadSafe ] DOE Issues $14 Million in Funding Opportunity Announcements to U.S. Universities for Nuclear Research Message-ID: <460A9163.2040405@icx.net> Department of Energy Issues $14 Million in Funding Opportunity Announcements to U.S. Universities for Nuclear Research WASHINGTON, DC ? The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) today announced two new Funding Opportunity Announcements (FOA), valued up to $14 million to better integrate the United States? universities into DOE?s nuclear research and development (R&D) programs; and contribute to assuring a new generation of engineers and scientists necessary for pursuing nuclear power - a safe, reliable, affordable and emissions-free source of energy. These FOAs support the Global Nuclear Energy Partnership (GNEP) University Readiness and the Nuclear Energy Research Initiative for Consortia (NERI-C). These new awards will bring total Fiscal Year (FY) 2007 funding to universities that support nuclear energy programs to over $54 million. ?These Funding Opportunity Announcements demonstrate our commitment to pursuing nuclear research, and we are eager for our next generation of scientists and engineers to make scientific breakthroughs that will help diversify our nation?s energy sources,? Assistant Secretary for Nuclear Energy Dennis Spurgeon said. ?Supporting education and training is critical to developing secure, competitive and environmentally responsible nuclear technologies to serve the United States? present and future energy needs.? For the GNEP University Readiness FOA, DOE seeks applications from universities for capability expansion that will directly support GNEP R&D programs. Capability expansion includes laboratory upgrades; faculty support; graduate fellowships; reactor improvements; equipment purchases or upgrades; curriculum development and enhancement; and international student exchange or other similar activities that directly impact a university?s ability to compete in future GNEP R&D solicitations. Estimated funding for the one-time GNEP University Readiness awards total $4 million, with a maximum of $100,000 per award. DOE?s Funding Opportunity Announcement for NERI-C seeks applications from university consortia for R&D that will directly support a broad range of programs in the Office of Nuclear Energy; including: the Advanced Fuel Cycle R&D Program, the Generation IV Nuclear Energy Systems Initiative, and the Nuclear Hydrogen Initiative. Estimated funding for the NERI-C awards totals $10 million. This will be the first year funding for multi-year research grants that could receive total funding of about $30 million. Additional university grants are planned in subsequent years, subject to program requirements and congressional appropriations. Applications for the NERI-C announcement are due May 23, 2007. Applications for the GNEP University Readiness announcement are due by June 7, 2007. DOE anticipates announcing the selection later this year. Applications must be submitted through www.grants.gov to be considered for award. For additional information on this announcement, GNEP and nuclear R&D programs, visit: www.nuclear.gov. NEWS MEDIA CONTACT: Craig Stevens, (202) 586-4940 Wednesday, March 28, 2007 -DOE- From GRAHNk at comcast.net Wed Mar 28 10:33:35 2007 From: GRAHNk at comcast.net (GRAHNk at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:33:35 +0000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Easy Fix for Damaged Ludlum Shields Message-ID: <032820071533.18618.460A8ACF000CD111000048BA221559341405B2B8BEADB9@comcast.net> For soil remediation purposes, we use a number of Ludlum 44-10 2x2 NaI probes equipped with 6" lead shield/colimators. Over time, these become damaged (bumped and banged) or the rim gets bent, or worst case the shield is dropped and is no longer round, so we end up buying new ones. Since these are over $100, we also have administrative issues associated with inventory tracking and such...overall, a big hassle. Recently we discovered that a large tailpipe expander can be used to slightly expand the shield and restore the entire cylindrical space to a round shape. The one we purchased was on sale for $10.99 at the local cheap tool store, but they could probably be picked up at an auto parts store as well. This is the item we bought, not the sale price http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37354 Kelly Grahn Illinois Emergency Management Agency, Division of Nuclear Safety From Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us Wed Mar 28 10:44:58 2007 From: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us (Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 11:44:58 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The use of K-40 In-Reply-To: <6DB2631F05FDEF4D9F6F633E2FC8C7CF0A3000DD@PMSX1M.fka.forsmark.vattenfall.se> Message-ID: <819D4259707E404C934FBF454FF36AEE7A9828@ES-MSG-002.es.govt.state.ma.us> 1. In the U.S. K-39 was separated from K-40/K-41 in the Oak Ridge calutrons (WWII centrifuges) before they were shut down. 2. Yes. Oak Ridge recovered K-39 used in experiments because it was costly. I was informed that, around 1982-84, Argonne ordered a small quantity (one day's production) of K-39 for about $75,000. 3. It was more for the use of K with K-40 removed (K-39). This would be much easier than trying to get "pure" K-40 (which would include K-41) with the carry-over of a lot of K-39. Regards, Jim Muckerheide ========================= >-----Original Message----- >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl >[mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Olsson Mattias :MSO >Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 3:21 AM >To: radsafe at radlab.nl >Subject: [ RadSafe ] The use of K-40 > >There was some talk about potassium on the list recently and I >know that K-40 is sometimes used to verify the stability of >on-line gamma monitors for for example stack emissions from >power plants. It is usually argued that it gives a single, >nice peak at such an energy (1,46 MeV) that it is not >disturbed by background; neither does it cause much background >since the source can be kept very small. (This concerns a >shielded detector, of course.) > >I don't feel any need to question the past experiences of this >nuclide as a verification sample but what I do wonder is: > >1) How is K-40 manufactured (if it is...). Separation from >K-39? Sounds expensive. >2) If K-40 is manufactured as a reasonably enriched product, >who sells it? >3) Is this sort of use of K-40 a common practice? > >Have a good day, folks! > >-- >PhD Mattias Olsson, FTKS >Forsmarks Kraftgrupp AB >SE-742 03 ?sthammar >Sweden > >t. +46(0)173-81952 >m. +46(0)705-801952 >e. mso at forsmark.vattenfall.se > >_______________________________________________ >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and >understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other >settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > > From joseroze at netvision.net.il Wed Mar 28 11:49:48 2007 From: joseroze at netvision.net.il (Jose Julio Rozental) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:49:48 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. Message-ID: <01f601c77159$195753d0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Dear colleagues, especially from France, Who can comment about the subject Jose Julio Rozental joseroze at netvision.net.il Israel One dead, 13 injured in X-ray blunder at French hospital http://www.qldcancer.com.au/pdf/November.pdf AFP via Yahoo! News - 12-Oct-06 Agence France-Presse reported that one person died and 13 others fell sick after they were exposed to excessive doses of X-rays as they were being scanned for prostate cancer at Epinal Hospital near Strasbourg in eastern France. The accidents occurred between May-04 and May-05, where staff misused a new software programme that had been installed in the X-ray unit. The Lorraine Regional Hospital Agency said that 23 patients received excessive doses of radiation, and the 13 who fell ill suffered from rectal inflammation and needed surgery to fit an artificial anus. The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. From hflong at pacbell.net Wed Mar 28 13:55:41 2007 From: hflong at pacbell.net (howard long) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 11:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. In-Reply-To: <01f601c77159$195753d0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Message-ID: <20070328185541.43821.qmail@web83509.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Software! "To REALLY screw up, it takes a computer." Howard Long Jose Julio Rozental wrote: Dear colleagues, especially from France, Who can comment about the subject Jose Julio Rozental joseroze at netvision.net.il Israel One dead, 13 injured in X-ray blunder at French hospital http://www.qldcancer.com.au/pdf/November.pdf AFP via Yahoo! News - 12-Oct-06 Agence France-Presse reported that one person died and 13 others fell sick after they were exposed to excessive doses of X-rays as they were being scanned for prostate cancer at Epinal Hospital near Strasbourg in eastern France. The accidents occurred between May-04 and May-05, where staff misused a new software programme that had been installed in the X-ray unit. The Lorraine Regional Hospital Agency said that 23 patients received excessive doses of radiation, and the 13 who fell ill suffered from rectal inflammation and needed surgery to fit an artificial anus. The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From ryoss at mcw.edu Wed Mar 28 15:03:38 2007 From: ryoss at mcw.edu (Yoss, Robert) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:03:38 -0500 Subject: FW: [ RadSafe ] EMF and brain tumors in animals Message-ID: <3261933EB7678946A50C0314A1AAC07B0D91A27E@MCWMAIL.mcwcorp.net> Posted for Dr. Moulder. -----Original Message----- From: Moulder, John Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:33 PM To: Yoss, Robert Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] EMF and brain tumors in animals You might want to post my comments > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > Behalf Of Wes > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:12 AM > To: radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: [ RadSafe ] EMF and brain tumors in animals > > Radsafers, > > Here is an article that claims that 95 per cent of animals exposed to > electromagnetic radiation within the safe limits as per international > standards may develop brain tumours. > > http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=1&theme=&usrsess=1&id=150 > 944 > > > > At first I thought it was some really fringe stuff, but the author, Prof > Jitendra Behari, seems very capable. A quick PubMed search (see below) > shows > some impressive research articles. Nothing Behari has published to date supports such a statement. Such a statement is also contradicted for both RF and ELF by a substantial number of published peer-reviewed studies. Of course, X-rays are also electromagnetic radiation and X-rays will cause brain cancer in rodents. But even X-rays would not get you a 95% incidence rate. ----------------- John Moulder (jmoulder at mcw.edu) Professor of Radiation Oncology Director, Center for Medical Countermeasures Against Radiological Terrorism Medical College of Wisconsin From mcmahankl at ornl.gov Wed Mar 28 15:57:18 2007 From: mcmahankl at ornl.gov (McMahan, Kimberly L.) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:57:18 -0400 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. In-Reply-To: <01f601c77159$195753d0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Message-ID: <71FDA9EBE5133A48BCCFE0200C9B1D9004EFD33D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov> The IRSN investigative report, in French, can be found at: http://www.irsn.org/document/files/File/Internet/Actualites/synthese_mis sion_radiotherapie_epinal.pdf Unless I mis-read the document (definitely a possibility), the software was not the direct cause, and these were not diagnostic "scans," they were conformational radiotherapy treatments. Treatment planning decisions were made by the medical staff at that hospital to deliver higher doses in order to control the prostate cancers. The typical protocol calls for a dose to the prostate of 70-74 Gy, while for these patients the decision was made to deliver 78 Gy. This higher dose over-exposed the nearby rectal tissue, with severe consequences. There is some discussion in the report about the decision to effectively engage in a clinical trial, and without informing the patients of increased risks. Kim McMAHAN ORNL External Dosimetry -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Jose Julio Rozental Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:50 PM To: radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. Dear colleagues, especially from France, Who can comment about the subject Jose Julio Rozental joseroze at netvision.net.il Israel One dead, 13 injured in X-ray blunder at French hospital http://www.qldcancer.com.au/pdf/November.pdf AFP via Yahoo! News - 12-Oct-06 Agence France-Presse reported that one person died and 13 others fell sick after they were exposed to excessive doses of X-rays as they were being scanned for prostate cancer at Epinal Hospital near Strasbourg in eastern France. The accidents occurred between May-04 and May-05, where staff misused a new software programme that had been installed in the X-ray unit. The Lorraine Regional Hospital Agency said that 23 patients received excessive doses of radiation, and the 13 who fell ill suffered from rectal inflammation and needed surgery to fit an artificial anus. The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From joseroze at netvision.net.il Thu Mar 29 08:07:29 2007 From: joseroze at netvision.net.il (Jose Julio Rozental) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:07:29 +0200 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. References: <71FDA9EBE5133A48BCCFE0200C9B1D9004EFD33D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov> Message-ID: <00ac01c77203$34e9e2c0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Dear Kim, Thank you for your input, I'll study the site and also I'll ask for more details about - I hope more imputs from colleagues will be arrive meanwhile. Only to inform about doses - I was submitted to radiotherapy to prostate treatment in Israel, last year, April 2006 - 80 Gy, 40 fraction, 2 Gy per fraction. Jose Julio Rozental joseroze at netvision.net.il Israel ----- Original Message ----- From: "McMahan, Kimberly L." To: "Jose Julio Rozental" ; Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:57 PM Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the affair. > The IRSN investigative report, in French, can be found at: > http://www.irsn.org/document/files/File/Internet/Actualites/synthese_mis > sion_radiotherapie_epinal.pdf > > Unless I mis-read the document (definitely a possibility), the software > was not the direct cause, and these were not diagnostic "scans," they > were conformational radiotherapy treatments. Treatment planning > decisions were made by the medical staff at that hospital to deliver > higher doses in order to control the prostate cancers. The typical > protocol calls for a dose to the prostate of 70-74 Gy, while for these > patients the decision was made to deliver 78 Gy. This higher dose > over-exposed the nearby rectal tissue, with severe consequences. There > is some discussion in the report about the decision to effectively > engage in a clinical trial, and without informing the patients of > increased risks. > > Kim McMAHAN ORNL External Dosimetry > > > -----Original Message----- > From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > Behalf Of Jose Julio Rozental > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:50 PM > To: radsafe at radlab.nl > Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > independent inquiry into the affair. > > Dear colleagues, especially from France, > > Who can comment about the subject > > Jose Julio Rozental > joseroze at netvision.net.il > Israel > > One dead, 13 injured in X-ray blunder at French hospital > http://www.qldcancer.com.au/pdf/November.pdf > > AFP via Yahoo! News - 12-Oct-06 > > Agence France-Presse reported that one person died and 13 others fell > sick after they were exposed to excessive doses of X-rays as they were > being scanned for prostate cancer at Epinal Hospital near Strasbourg in > eastern France. > > The accidents occurred between May-04 and May-05, where staff misused a > new software programme that had been installed in the X-ray unit. The > Lorraine Regional Hospital Agency said that 23 patients received > excessive doses of radiation, and the 13 who fell ill suffered from > rectal inflammation and needed surgery to fit an artificial anus. > > The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the > affair. > _______________________________________________ > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > From sandyfl at cox.net Thu Mar 29 09:50:18 2007 From: sandyfl at cox.net (Sandy Perle) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 07:50:18 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The 2007 Dosimetry & Records Symposium Message-ID: <460B6FBA.3131.560D3F4@sandyfl.cox.net> The 2007 Dosimetry & Records Symposium -- co sponsored by Global Dosimetry Solutions, Landauer and Panasonic -- cordially invites you to the 26th International Dosimetry & Records Symposium AGENDA and other details: http://www.dosimetryresources.com/2007%20Meeting%20Main.htm As in 2006, this will be a joint symposium for Dosimetry and Records - with common plus parallel track sessions. Topics planned are "Nuclear Renaissance" ; Nuclear Cycle ; Homeland Security ; Emergency Response ; Regulatory changes and updates ;Litigation ; Environmental ; Confidentiality ; Dose Reconstruction ; EPD ; Establishing a Program for Accreditation etc Special sessions are also planned for " Hands On" equipment training and panel discussions on open issues REGISTRATION: Attendees $350 Guests (over12) $175 On Line Registration --link below https://www.SignUp4.net/Public/ap.aspx?EID=ANNU23E DATES: Arrival on Sunday, June 3, 2007 Sessions from Monday, June 4 (8:00am) to Friday, June 8, 2007 (5:00pm) Depart on Saturday, June 9 at your leisure VENUE: Portland Marriott at Sable Oaks 200 Sable Oaks Drive South Portland Maine 04106 USA (207) 871 8000 (800) 752 8810 http://marriott.com/property/propertypage/PWMAP HOTEL ROOM RESERVATION Please contact the Portland Marriott at Sable Oaks directly at (800) 752 8810 and identify yourself as an attendee of the "Dosimetry & Records Symposium June 3 -9; 2007" to avail yourself of the special negotiated rates: Single or Double Guestroom @ $ 149 plus 7% tax Gov?t Rate @ $ 82 plus 7% tax (Applicable only to active U.S. Gov?t/DOD/DOE employees - Valid ID required) AIRPORT: Portland ; Maine (PWM) http://www.portlandjetport.org/ Other nearby airports are Boston Logan (BOS) approx 2 hours by car and Manchester (MHT) approx 1 1/2 hours by car. GROUND TRANSPORTATION: Hotel provides complimentary transportation from and to Portland , Maine (PWM) airport Looking forward to your participation Thank you, 2007 Dosimetry & Records Symposium Task Force Inid Deneau Landauer Chairperson Sandy Perle Global Dosimetry Solutions Co-Chairperson Bruce Dicey Consultant Dante Wells Savannah River Company Deborah O?Connor TXU/Comanche Peak Isabelle McCabe Radiation Safety and Control Services Pam Heckman Energy Solutions Richard Cadogan Argonne National Labs Ash Chabra Panasonic Sandy Perle Senior Vice President, Technical Operations Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc. 2652 McGaw Avenue Irvine, CA 92614 Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306 Fax:(949) 296-1144 E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com E-Mail: sandyfl at cox.net Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/ Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/ From edmok at mphysics.com Thu Mar 29 17:22:45 2007 From: edmok at mphysics.com (Ed Mok) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:22:45 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an independentinquiry into the affair. In-Reply-To: <00ac01c77203$34e9e2c0$9b461bac@user2f1dabe2f3> Message-ID: <00dc01c77250$c6fe1940$192e41ab@corp.stanfordmed.org> Is this the same incidents? http://www.playfuls.com/news_10_17575-Translation-Error-Said-To-Have-Led-To- Hospital-Deaths.html Ed Mok Stanford Cancer Center > >-----Original Message----- > >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > >Behalf Of Jose Julio Rozental > >Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:07 AM > >To: McMahan, Kimberly L.; radsafe at radlab.nl > >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > >independentinquiry into the affair. > > > >Dear Kim, > > > >Thank you for your input, > > > > > > > >I'll study the site and also I'll ask for more details about - I hope > >more > >imputs from colleagues will be arrive meanwhile. > > > >Only to inform about doses - I was submitted to radiotherapy to prostate > >treatment in Israel, last year, April 2006 - 80 Gy, 40 fraction, 2 Gy per > >fraction. > > > > > > > >Jose Julio Rozental > > > >joseroze at netvision.net.il > > > >Israel > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "McMahan, Kimberly L." > >To: "Jose Julio Rozental" ; > > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:57 PM > >Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > >independent inquiry into the affair. > > > > > >> The IRSN investigative report, in French, can be found at: > >> > >http://www.irsn.org/document/files/File/Internet/Actualites/synthese_mis > >> sion_radiotherapie_epinal.pdf > >> > >> Unless I mis-read the document (definitely a possibility), the software > >> was not the direct cause, and these were not diagnostic "scans," they > >> were conformational radiotherapy treatments. Treatment planning > >> decisions were made by the medical staff at that hospital to deliver > >> higher doses in order to control the prostate cancers. The typical > >> protocol calls for a dose to the prostate of 70-74 Gy, while for these > >> patients the decision was made to deliver 78 Gy. This higher dose > >> over-exposed the nearby rectal tissue, with severe consequences. There > >> is some discussion in the report about the decision to effectively > >> engage in a clinical trial, and without informing the patients of > >> increased risks. > >> > >> Kim McMAHAN ORNL External Dosimetry > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > >> Behalf Of Jose Julio Rozental > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:50 PM > >> To: radsafe at radlab.nl > >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > >> independent inquiry into the affair. > >> > >> Dear colleagues, especially from France, > >> > >> Who can comment about the subject > >> > >> Jose Julio Rozental > >> joseroze at netvision.net.il > >> Israel > >> > >> One dead, 13 injured in X-ray blunder at French hospital > >> http://www.qldcancer.com.au/pdf/November.pdf > >> > >> AFP via Yahoo! News - 12-Oct-06 > >> > >> Agence France-Presse reported that one person died and 13 others fell > >> sick after they were exposed to excessive doses of X-rays as they were > >> being scanned for prostate cancer at Epinal Hospital near Strasbourg in > >> eastern France. > >> > >> The accidents occurred between May-04 and May-05, where staff misused a > >> new software programme that had been installed in the X-ray unit. The > >> Lorraine Regional Hospital Agency said that 23 patients received > >> excessive doses of radiation, and the 13 who fell ill suffered from > >> rectal inflammation and needed surgery to fit an artificial anus. > >> > >> The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into the > >> affair. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >> > >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >> > >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood > >the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ From Lee_M_Livesey at RL.gov Thu Mar 29 17:38:09 2007 From: Lee_M_Livesey at RL.gov (Livesey, Lee M) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:38:09 -0700 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radiological Containments Message-ID: <4A768AAF28C241448F8DE92A505E799901ACFF29@EX01-1.rl.gov> I am interested in benchmarking our radiological containment design, specifications, manufacture, and inspection against other facilities. Does anyone have references other than the American Glovebox Society publication that I might review? Thanks, Lee Livesey CH2MHILL, Hanford From Peter.Thomas at arpansa.gov.au Thu Mar 29 18:23:28 2007 From: Peter.Thomas at arpansa.gov.au (Peter Thomas) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:23:28 +1000 Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered anindependent inquiry into the affair. [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Message-ID: Ed, Yes it is the same incident. There were preliminary reports in October last year which were discussed on Radsafe and a press release at the time suggested full reports would be available by the end of 2006. The recent press surrounding the incident seems to be the result of the delivery of these more detailed reports. I've downloaded the PDF of the IRSN report that Kim McMahan mentioned. My French is non-existent so I've submitted it to the Google translator and am now in the process of trying to recast the resulting Franglais into something that makes sense to me yet hopefully is still true to the original. The IRSN report seems to take a much wider aim than simply the overdoses. There's also stuff about record-keeping, informed choice, training and so on. Peter Thomas Medical Physics Section ARPANSA -----Original Message----- From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Ed Mok Sent: Friday, 30 March 2007 8:23 AM To: 'McMahan, Kimberly L.'; radsafe at radlab.nl Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered anindependentinquiry into the affair. Is this the same incidents? http://www.playfuls.com/news_10_17575-Translation-Error-Said-To-Have-Led -To- Hospital-Deaths.html Ed Mok Stanford Cancer Center > >-----Original Message----- > >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On > >Behalf Of Jose Julio Rozental > >Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:07 AM > >To: McMahan, Kimberly L.; radsafe at radlab.nl > >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > >independentinquiry into the affair. > > > >Dear Kim, > > > >Thank you for your input, > > > > > > > >I'll study the site and also I'll ask for more details about - I hope > >more imputs from colleagues will be arrive meanwhile. > > > >Only to inform about doses - I was submitted to radiotherapy to > >prostate treatment in Israel, last year, April 2006 - 80 Gy, 40 > >fraction, 2 Gy per fraction. > > > > > > > >Jose Julio Rozental > > > >joseroze at netvision.net.il > > > >Israel > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "McMahan, Kimberly L." > >To: "Jose Julio Rozental" ; > > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:57 PM > >Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > >independent inquiry into the affair. > > > > > >> The IRSN investigative report, in French, can be found at: > >> > >http://www.irsn.org/document/files/File/Internet/Actualites/synthese_ > >mis > >> sion_radiotherapie_epinal.pdf > >> > >> Unless I mis-read the document (definitely a possibility), the > >> software was not the direct cause, and these were not diagnostic > >> "scans," they were conformational radiotherapy treatments. > >> Treatment planning decisions were made by the medical staff at that > >> hospital to deliver higher doses in order to control the prostate > >> cancers. The typical protocol calls for a dose to the prostate of > >> 70-74 Gy, while for these patients the decision was made to deliver > >> 78 Gy. This higher dose over-exposed the nearby rectal tissue, with > >> severe consequences. There is some discussion in the report about > >> the decision to effectively engage in a clinical trial, and without > >> informing the patients of increased risks. > >> > >> Kim McMAHAN ORNL External Dosimetry > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] > >> On Behalf Of Jose Julio Rozental > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:50 PM > >> To: radsafe at radlab.nl > >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] The French health ministry has ordered an > >> independent inquiry into the affair. > >> > >> Dear colleagues, especially from France, > >> > >> Who can comment about the subject > >> > >> Jose Julio Rozental > >> joseroze at netvision.net.il > >> Israel > >> > >> One dead, 13 injured in X-ray blunder at French hospital > >> http://www.qldcancer.com.au/pdf/November.pdf > >> > >> AFP via Yahoo! News - 12-Oct-06 > >> > >> Agence France-Presse reported that one person died and 13 others > >> fell sick after they were exposed to excessive doses of X-rays as > >> they were being scanned for prostate cancer at Epinal Hospital near > >> Strasbourg in eastern France. > >> > >> The accidents occurred between May-04 and May-05, where staff > >> misused a new software programme that had been installed in the > >> X-ray unit. The Lorraine Regional Hospital Agency said that 23 > >> patients received excessive doses of radiation, and the 13 who fell > >> ill suffered from rectal inflammation and needed surgery to fit an > >> artificial anus. > >> > >> The French health ministry has ordered an independent inquiry into > >> the affair. _______________________________________________ > >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > >> > >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > >> understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > >> http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > >> > >> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other > >> settings > >> visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list > > > >Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and > >understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: > >http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html > > > >For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings > >visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ _______________________________________________ You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/radsaferules.html For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://radlab.nl/radsafe/ *********************************************************************************** Important: This email (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain confidential and / or privileged information. If you are not the intended addressee, you are prohibited from relaying on, distributing, disclosing, copying or in any other way using any information in this email. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and erase all copies. Any opinions expressed in this email are not necessarily held or authorised by Australian Radiation Protection And Nuclear Safety Agency (ARPANSA). Whilst ARPANSA has taken all reasonable steps to ensure this is email is virus free, it accepts no responsibility and makes no warranty. The recipient should take its own steps to ensure there is no virus and bears full responsibility for any use. Australian Radiation Protection And Nuclear Safety Agency *********************************************************************************** From rhelbig at california.com Fri Mar 30 04:23:47 2007 From: rhelbig at california.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 01:23:47 -0800 Subject: [ RadSafe ] Addressing Wikipedia Articles Message-ID: <02e901c772af$42e510a0$41425142@roger1> Wow! I'm impressed, John! Way to go, guy! Does anybody want to join in with John to start the re-do, or whatever it is called, of Wiki? Tis is certainly a long overdue project, John.Thank so much for the :"can-do" attitude. Go check out what John has underway, folks. You Will Like It! Bob Nichols On 3/28/07, edivorce2000 < edivorce2000 at yahoo.com> wrote: I created a "sandbox" page on Wikipedia in which we can work on changes to articles. I also wrote some comments under the "discussion" tab. I placed a link to the "alpha decay" page that concerns where expressed about. Maybe a good way to start is make a list of links to articles we need to address. Here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Edivorce/DUsandbox John