[ RadSafe ] Re: NYC Bans Geiger counters!!!

[parthasarathy k s]

Dear Stewart,
Thank you for the interesting story. I ma reminded of the pioneering work of Prof Bill Spiers ( who was my mentor) and his colleagues using high pressure ionization chambers in the granitic regions of Scotland.

Regards
K.S.Parthasarathy

----- Original Message ----
From: stewart farber <radproject at sbcglobal.net>
To: radsafe at radlab.nl; "Vernig, Peter G." <Peter.Vernig at va.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January, 2008 11:40:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Re: NYC Bans Geiger counters!!!

This 
thread 
made 
me 
think 
of 
a 
funny 
happening. 
True 
story.

"Long 
ago 
[1975!!]  
in 
a 
land 
far 
away" 
I 
was 
doing 
an 
informal, 
extracurricular 
radiation 
survey 
around 
Boston 
with 
a 
buddy 
from 
Boston 
Edison. 
We 
were 
using 
a 
high 
pressure 
ionization 
chamber 
[10" 
diameter 
sphere 
under 
high 
pressure 
Ar 
gas 
fill]. 
This 
unit 
was 
used 
routinely 
in 
my 
work 
in 
environmental 
rad 
measurements 
at 
the 
time 
around 
nuclear 
plants.

This  
unit 
was 
very 
sensitive 
to 
slight 
variations 
in 
gross 
gamma 
at 
background 
rates. 
Easy 
to 
document 
differences 
of 
a 
few 
tenths 
of 
a 
microR 
per 
hour 
between 
locations.

Unit 
sort 
of 
like 
the 
old 
RSS-111 
from 
Reuter 
Stokes 
--drawn 
aluminum 
boxes 
about 
1 
foot 
square, 
a 
bit 
more 
than 
a 
foot 
high 
--connected 
by 
a 
cable. 
My 
friend 
and 
I 
had 
gone 
to 
a 
bunch 
of 
spots 
around 
Boston 
one 
early 
evening 
which 
we 
knew 
would 
have 
elevated 
background 
due 
to 
granite 
used 
in 
their 
fabrication 
or 
construction: 
Bunker 
Hill 
Monument 
[it 
was 
after 
normal 
visiting 
hours 
and 
closed 
so 
we 
had 
to 
climb 
a 
short 
fence 
to 
get 
inside 
the 
stairs 
leading 
up 
it: 
don't 
try 
anything 
this 
in 
NYCity 
soon], 
the 
Christian 
Science 
Church, 
a 
granite 
sarcophagus 
from 
an 
ancient 
Egyptian 
princess 
on 
display 
in 
front 
of 
the 
Boston 
Museum 
of 
Science, 
steps 
of 
the 
Mass. 
Statehouse, 
etc. 
Just  
a 
bunch 
of 
interesting 
spots 
around 
Boston 
, 
measured 
for 
our 
amusement.

We 
then 
decided 
to 
make 
a 
measurement 
at 
ground 
level 
near 
the 
Prudential 
Tower 
[the 
central 
offices 
for 
Boston 
Edison 
were 
there 
at 
the 
time] 
and 
a 
second 
reading 
at 
"The 
top 
of 
the 
Hub" 
-- 
a 
very 
neat 
glass 
walled 
bar 
looking 
out 
over 
Boston 
on 
all 
four 
sides 
[it 
was 
dark 
so 
the 
view 
was 
quite 
nice] 
50 
or 
so 
stories 
above 
street 
level. 
To 
get 
to 
the 
top 
floor 
we 
had 
to 
board 
an 
elevator 
in 
the 
lobby 
carrying 
the 
two 
aluminum 
boxes 
for 
the 
rad 
monitoring 
system 
connected 
by 
the 
cable 
from 
the 
ionization 
chamber 
box 
box 
to 
the 
main 
electronics 
& 
stripchart 
[at 
the 
time] 
recorder 
box.

As 
we 
boarded 
the 
elevator 
--it 
was 
evening, 
and 
not 
many 
people 
were 
around, 
a 
security 
guard 
rushed 
over 
to 
sternly 
ask 
us 
what 
we 
were 
doing 
and 
what 
was 
in 
the 
suspicious 
looking 
boxes.  
The 
two 
boxes 
were 
connected 
by 
a 
3/8"or 
so 
diameter 
cable, 
with 
metal 
carrying 
handles 
on 
top 
that 
looked 
a 
LOT 
like 
the 
plungers 
on 
the 
devices 
used 
on 
boxes 
in 
old 
movies 
to 
generate 
a 
current 
to 
blow 
up 
dynamite 
charges.

I 
told 
the 
guard, 
without 
hesitating, 
and 
quite 
accurately 
that  
the 
device 
we 
were 
carrying 
was 
"A 
high-pressure 
ionization 
chamber".

He 
looked 
at 
my 
friend 
and 
I 
with 
a 
strangely 
puzzled 
look 
on 
his 
face, 
and 
said 
OK 
you 
can 
go 
up. 
He 
never 
asked 
for 
ID 
or 
any 
explanation 
of 
what 
we 
were 
going 
to 
do 
with 
this 
surveydevice. 
My 
friend 
and 
I 
had 
a 
good 
laugh 
on 
the 
elevator 
about 
the 
guard 
taking 
it 
on 
faith 
that 
a 
"high 
pressure 
ionization 
chamber" 
was 
not 
something 
we 
might 
blow 
up 
or 
release 
spreading 
"ionization" 
all 
over 
the 
place 
like 
some 
kind 
of 
weapon.

For 
what 
it's 
worth, 
after 
making 
good 
stable 
measurements 
at 
a 
dozen 
locations 
all 
over 
Boston 
[all 
showing 
doubling, 
tripling 
and 
more 
of 
normal 
background 
due 
to 
the 
use 
of 
granite 
in 
construction], 
the 
recorder 
was 
jumping 
all 
over 
the 
place 
at 
the 
Top 
of 
the 
Hub 
restaurant 
and 
bar. 
We 
could 
not 
make 
a 
stable 
reading 
there.

Later 
discussions 
with 
the 
maker 
of 
the 
unit 
[not 
Reuter 
Stokes, 
but 
a 
company 
I 
had 
hired 
to 
make 
several 
units 
with 
special 
features 
[including 
one 
with 
a 
magnetic 
tape 
data 
recorder 
in 
one 
unit 
to 
measure 
annual 
turbine 
shine 
dose 
at 
the 
boundary 
of 
Vermont 
Yankee 
documenting 
that 
the 
plant 
did 
not 
exceed 
a 
VT 
State 
limit 
of 
5 
mR 
per 
year 
incremental 
exposure] 
led 
to 
the 
realization 
that 
these 
units 
at 
the 
time 
had 
magnetic 
reed 
switches. 
The 
top 
of 
the 
Prudential 
building, 
a 
few 
dozen 
feet 
above 
the 
restaurant,  
was 
covered 
with 
microwave 
relay 
dishes. 
The 
scatter 
off 
the 
microwave 
dishes 
was 
tripping 
the 
magnetic 
reed 
switches 
in 
our 
instrument, 
and 
making 
it 
impossible 
to 
make 
a 
reading 
of 
background 
radiation. 
The 
most 
interesting 
thing 
from 
a 
radiation 
protection 
point 
of 
view 
at 
the 
Top 
of 
the 
Hub 
would 
be 
what 
kind 
of 
microwave 
exposure 
workers 
and 
the 
public 
were 
receiving 
there. 
Maybe 
someone 
has 
some 
non-ionizing 
survey 
equipment 
they 
could 
take 
there 
if 
they 
are 
visiting 
Boston. 
Great 
place 
to 
go 
for 
a 
drink 
and 
the 
view.

Stewart 
Farber, 
MS 
Public 
Health

Farber 
Medical 
Solutions, 
LLC
Linac, 
Medical, 
& 
HP 
Instrument 
Brokerage
[203] 
441-8433 
[Office]
[203] 
522-2817 
[Cell]
[203] 
367-0791 
[Fax]
email: 
radproject at sbcglobal.net
website: 
www.farber-medical.com

=================================


----- 
Original 
Message 
----- 
From: 
"Vernig, 
Peter 
G." 
<Peter.Vernig at va.gov>
To: 
"Mark 
Sonter" 
<sontermj at tpg.com.au>; 
<radsafe at radlab.nl>
Sent: 
Wednesday, 
January 
30, 
2008 
9:49 
AM
Subject: 
RE: 
[ 
RadSafe 
] 
Re: 
NYC 
Bans 
Geiger 
counters!!!


Many 
moons 
ago, 
long 
before 
9/11 
I 
had 
to 
do 
an 
installation 
and 
fly
with 
an 
ion 
chamber.  
I 
also 
had 
a 
few 
hand 
tools, 
nothing 
exciting, 
no
box 
cutter.  
Pliers, 
crescent, 
wrench, 
screw 
drivers, 
that 
sort 
of
thing.  
I 
took 
I 
it 
in 
carry 
on 
so 
I 
could 
explain 
not 
wanting 
it 
to 
get
stopped 
and 
not 
put 
on 
the 
plane 
if 
it 
worried 
them.  
Security 
guy 
did
not 
even 
bat 
an 
eye 
at 
the 
ion 
chamber 
but 
was 
very 
concerned 
about 
the
tools.

Know 
what 
made 
him 
happy?  
A 
business 
card........................... 

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