[ RadSafe ] Anti-nuclear zealots over the globe.

Tue Aug 25 13:30:42 CDT 2009

Dan,

Please do not take anything in my post as minimizing the effects, short
or long term, of landmines, as that certainly was not my intention.
Clearly, something that kills and injures immediately has HUGE long term
effects (indeed, I do not discount the impact of fragments of DU in the
bodies of people caught in near-misses, though that is not the focus of
the anti DU crowd).  When someone looses a limb to a mine the effect
echoes through their life, and the lives of any children they may have,
and all who care for them.  In intention was to point out that the
immediate and acute aspects of landmine should make them a higher
priority than DU for anyone who is prioritizing hazards based on risk,
rather than some other criteria (like the US Military can be blamed).

Landmines were bad enough when they were (mostly) restricted to military
organizations using them against other military organization.  For
decades, however, they have been used more and more randomly, often
without apparent interest in what "side" of a conflict the person
eventually sets it off might be on.  I believe that the US should
support the ban on landmines on moral and practical grounds, either of
which is sufficient. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan W McCarn [mailto:hotgreenchile at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:20 AM
To: Brennan, Mike (DOH); radsafe at radlab.nl
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Anti-nuclear zealots over the globe.

Dear Mike:

Anecdotal Experience on Long-term Effects of Mines and IEDs: 

Having had friends die or become re-injured from their wounds 2-3
decades following injury by mines, I would say that the effects are
long-term as well. As shrapnel fragments dislodge from bone, they have a
tendency to re-emerge with resulting injury to soft tissue.  One lost a
leg years later when a bony growth in his femur around a piece of
shrapnel caused it to break. Another died from peritonitis when his
colon was cut by a piece of shrapnel dislodged from his pelvis. Another
was more benign when a fragment emerged from his foot while he was
taking a shower.  All suffered emotional and psychological scarring as a
result of their injuries.

My next-door neighbor in France lost both legs and suffered grievous
bodily injury while attempting to disarm a mine intended only to cause
mayhem among people in a village in Iraq.  He was, of course, wearing
full body armor.
After 15 reconstructive surgeries and 4 years hence, he still faces
significant risks from the several fragments still in his body.  His job
in Iraq as part of the French military presence was to remove mines and
IEDs intended to kill and maim civilians. These devices were set by
Iraqi militias with no regard to the rules of war and intended only as
instruments of terror.

Dan ii

--
Dan W McCarn, Geologist
7 Likely Place
Santa Fe, NM 87508-5938
+33.(0).6.47.86.05.25 (Mobile - France)
+33.(0).9.70.44.04.03 (Skype - France)
+1-505-240-6872 (Skype - New Mexico)
HotGreenChile at gmail.com (Private email)
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On
Behalf Of Brennan, Mike (DOH)
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:18
To: radsafe at radlab.nl
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Anti-nuclear zealots over the globe.

Between landmines and DU, the landmines are clearly the higher risk
issue.  The effects are near term and acute, as opposed to long term and
chronic (discounting the nearly magical claims put forward by the
anti-DU crowd).  DU is either in chunks, which are easy to find and safe
to clean up, or combustion products, which become more dispersed over
time, decreasing in concentration, and hence risk.  Landmines are often
intentionally difficult to find and dangerous to remove.  It is true
that the activity of the DU will remain constant on any timescale useful
for planning, and landmines will decrease in number by being cleared,
set off, and chemical deterioration, but it is entirely possible that
mines will still be killing and maiming people in Iraq 50 years from
now.  

On the other hand, none of the landmines were set by the US Military
(with possible exception around some of the bases, in fields designed to
be removed as part of the eventual pull out).  For many people, this
makes landmines in Iraq of no interest. 

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On
Behalf Of garyi at trinityphysics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:34 AM
To: maurysis at peoplepc.com; radsafe at radlab.nl;
john.gumnick at exeloncorp.com
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Anti-nuclear zealots over the globe.

Hi John,

You are quite right that Maury's referenced article did not support his
claim of zealots avidly blocking new nuclear power plants.  That article
was really an Iranian DU propaganda piece meant to create social guilt
in the US for political leverage.

But Maury's implied claim is nevertheless accurate.  If you need other
articles that do support his claim, I'll be happy to post a few.  

Now that we've tidied up that point, can you please clarify your use of
the phrase "uncontroversial and undeniable".  It seems silly to ask, but
are you in fact refering to the article cited by Maury, the Iranian
propaganda piece?  If so, do you really think the article is
"uncontroversial and undeniable"?

Thanks,
-Gary
--------------------------------
Gary Isenhower, M.S.
Trinity Physics Consulting
713-690-3020

On 25 Aug 2009 at 6:14, john.gumnick at exeloncorp.com wrote:

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] 

Well, I followed the link to see if I could get a look at those avid new
nuclear plant blockers, and I saw exactly nada. Just some relatively old
stuff about how all the DU ordnance loosed on Iraq is still a problem,
with a kicker toward the end noting that Iraq still has a lot of land
mines strewn about.

How, exactly do you make the leap from these uncontroversial and
undeniable points of fact to "avidly blocking new nuclear power plants?"

In fact, there was no connection to nuclear power in the article at all
until you just made one. I'm not sure that helps the cause.

John Gumnick, CHP
RP Tech Manager
Exelon Nuclear LaSalle County Station
Phone: 815-415-2703
john.gumnick at exeloncorp.com

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On
Behalf Of Maury Siskel Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 1:13 AM To:
radsafe Subject: [ RadSafe ] Anti-nuclear zealots over the globe.

If any think anti-nuclear zealotry has diminished or died, rest
assured; they are alive, well, and avidly blocking new nuclear power
plants over the globe. Maury&Dog  (Maury Siskel 
maurysis at peoplepc.com)

===========================
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=104356&sectionid=351020201

"Radioactive US weapons taking toll in Iraq Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:14:18
GMT

Years after the US attacks on Iraq, people in the Persian Gulf state
are suffering form the consequences of radioactive contamination
caused by the use of depleted uranium.

Iraq's Environment Minister, Narmin Othman Hasan, said Monday that
depleted Uranium (DU) weapons used by US-led troops against Iraq
during the1991 Persian Gulf War and the 2003 invasion still blight the
country.

Othman Hasan said the use of super-tough weapons by the US-led forces
had a devastating impact on the nation and has become a serious
environmental challenge since they have contaminated several parts of
the country. ..." ---------------snipped, see link for complete
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