[ RadSafe ] RE: radsafe Digest, Vol 186, Issue 2
Stewart Smith
ssmith at energysolutions.com
Fri Feb 27 12:23:21 CST 2009
By the way, if the data presented in the article is as accurate as its statement that Utah disposal site is "near" to the Nevada Test Site, there would be a lot of variance in any dose modeling it would present. There are ~360 miles between the two sites North-South.
SR Smith
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Subject: radsafe Digest, Vol 186, Issue 2
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_______________________________________________
Today's Topics:
1. RE: " Jordan's fossil water source has high radiationlevels "
(Brennan, Mike (DOH))
2. Re: Fallout "preserved" in concrete (welch at jlab.org)
3. RE: Re: Fallout "preserved" in concrete (Arvic Harms)
4. RE: Radioactive Waste: The San Onofre File : Indybay
(Bjorn Cedervall)
5. REP Instrumentation (Stephen Stasolla)
6. RE: Re: Fallout "preserved" in concrete (Brennan, Mike (DOH))
7. RE: Radioactive Waste: The San Onofre File : Indybay
(Brennan, Mike (DOH))
8. Tritium in Concrete (Alston, Chris)
9. Re: [GeigerCounterEnthusiasts] alleged dirty bomber killed by
wife (Roger Helbig)
10. Free irradiators (Victor Goretsky)
11. RE: Re: [GeigerCounterEnthusiasts] alleged dirty bomberkilled
by wife (Brennan, Mike (DOH))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:43:37 -0800
From: "Brennan, Mike (DOH)" <Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV>
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] " Jordan's fossil water source has high
radiationlevels "
To: "RADSAFE" <radsafe at radlab.nl>
Message-ID:
<37C41083D3480E4BBB478317773B845D0148EE6F at dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
What I get out of this is that this source has been mostly untapped before now. It could be an interesting problem getting rid of all the radium. A couple hundred pCi/l (or whatever) times billions of liters per month leads to non-trivial levels of activity.
I am surprised that Jordan doesn't have a place where they could use solar heating to evaporate and water from a couple hundred feet down as a heat sink as a way of producing potable water.
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of Jaro
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 3:27 PM
To: multiple cdn; RADSAFE
Subject: [ RadSafe ] " Jordan's fossil water source has high radiationlevels "
Another Ramsar, Kerala, or Guarapari ?
Jaro
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.physorg.com/news154714642.html
Jordan's fossil water source has high radiation levels February 24th,
2009 in Space & Earth science / Environment
Ancient groundwater being tapped by Jordan, one of the 10 most water-deprived nations in the world, has been found to contain twenty times the radiation considered safe for drinking water in a new study by an international team of researchers.
"The combined activities of 228 radium and 226 radium - the two long-lived isotopes of radium - in the groundwater we tested are up to 2000 percent higher than international drinking standards," said Avner Vengosh, associate professor of earth and ocean sciences in the Nicholas School of the Environment at Duke University.
Making the water safe for long-term human consumption is possible, he said, but it will require extra steps to reduce its radioactivity.
{{....so it was unsafe until now ? ....is there anyone left alive in Jordan ? }}
Vengosh and his research team, made up of scientists from Jordan, Palestine, Israel and the United States, published their findings Feb.
19 in a paper in the peer-reviewed journal Environmental Science & Technology.
Jordan's annual water use exceeds the natural replenishment of its major river, the Yarmouk, and its local aquifers that are becoming salinized as a result of over-pumping.
In 2007, the Jordanian government announced plans for a $600-million project to pump low-saline fossil groundwater from the Disi aquifer, located along the nation's remote southern border with Saudi Arabia, and pipe it 250 kilometers north to the capital, Amman, a city of 3.1 million people, and other population centers.
Fossil groundwater is a nonrenewable supply of water trapped underground in aquifers. In recent years, policymakers in countries facing chronic water shortages have increasingly viewed low-saline supplies of fossil groundwater as an important potential source of water for human and agricultural use.
Libya and Saudi Arabia, for example, have relied extensively on fossil groundwater from Nubian sandstone aquifers similar to the Disi to meet their water needs in recent decades.
Most fossil groundwater resources in North Africa and the Middle East are characterized by high-quality water with low salinity. "The assumption has been that unsafe radioactive levels occur primarily in high-saline groundwater, so low-saline sources, such as water from a Nubian sandstone aquifer, are relatively safe resources just waiting to be tapped," Vengosh said.
To test that hypothesis, Vengosh and his colleagues investigated water from
37 pumping wells in the Disi aquifer's Rum Group, where low-saline groundwater is extracted from Cambro-Ordovician sandstone, and from wells in the Khreim Group, where saltier water is extracted from an aquifer containing larger amounts of clay minerals and oxides. All samples were analyzed for major and trace elements and for four radium isotopes. For comparative purposes, sandstone rocks from the Disi aquifer, along with Nubian sandstone rocks from the nearby Negev Desert in Israel, were also measured for radium.
"We found a lack of correlation between salinity and radioactivity,"
Vengosh said. "Instead, our findings suggest that an aquifer's geological properties may be a much more significant factor."
Vengosh and his group hypothesize that an aquifer with a higher content of clay minerals and oxides provides more adsorption sites for radium, and this results in lower radionuclide levels in the water itself.
Sandstone aquifers, on the other hand, offer fewer adsorption sites, and, as a result, generate radium-rich groundwater.
"Given that most of the aquifers in the region that contain fossil water are composed of Nubian sandstone and are characterized by low-saline groundwater, similar to that in the Disi aquifer, we suggest that high-radioactive groundwater may also exist in these basins. This could pose health risks for a large population," Vengosh said. Groundwater from the Disi aquifer is already used for drinking water in parts of Jordan and, more extensively, in Saudi Arabia, where it is known as the Saq aquifer.
"Making groundwater from the Disi aquifer and similar sandstone basins in the region safe for long-term human use will require a significant reduction of radionuclide levels," Vengosh said.
Health officials could reduce radioactivity to safe levels by diluting radium-rich water with low-radium water from other sources, he said, or by treating it with ion exchange, reverse osmosis desalination or lime softening. Each of these three treatment technologies does a good job of removing radium, Vengosh noted, but each produces solid and liquid residues that would have to be handled and disposed of as low-level radioactive waste.
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) classifies radium as a Group-A carcinogenic material, which means exposure to it could cause cancer.
More information: The paper is online at http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es802969r.
Source: Duke University
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:31:20 -0500 (EST)
From: welch at jlab.org
Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Fallout "preserved" in concrete
To: radsafe at radlab.nl
Message-ID: <2516.98.166.64.42.1235539880.squirrel at webmail.jlab.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Thank you all for the ideas and information regarding radioactivity in concrete. Because I did not give a lot of detail in asking the question, several of you have mentioned things that we have of course thought about and assessed. We have done gamma analysis on core samples of the blocks, and we have a fair idea of the inventory of gamma emitters. What was a little puzzling to us was that we detected tritium at considerably higher levels than the gamma emitters (it seemed high even considering half-life differences), and the tritium was in every block, even the ones that have no detectable gamma emitters. There also appears to be a lack of the expected depth profile (the expectation is that the tritium concentration should simply be proportional to the neutron flux at a given depth. But, we have not done an exhaustive study (number of samples is relatively small), and there's some question as to the reliability of the analysis technique. Also, we should probably not expect an idealized distribution, given variations in neutron fields and geometrical factors in the actual exposure conditions.
There's also the possibility of an interfering agent (radiological or not) in the material that is causing "false positive" tritium results. That was the impetus for my original post - the idea that there is interference from fallout (since the blocks were made in the early sixties). But, since we're not seeing any Cs137 in the blocks, the possibility that other fallout nuclides are causing a problem seems remote. We're trying a few things to evaluate other interferences (sampling concrete from the building in areas where there should not have been any activation), and looking at sending our samples out for alternative analysis techniques. I will keep you posted as to what we find out. Again, thank you for your ideas, suggestions and reference materials offered. We will follow up on all of them.
Best regards,
Keith
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:31:02 -0000
From: "Arvic Harms" <Arvic.Harms at npl.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: Fallout "preserved" in concrete
To: <welch at jlab.org>, <radsafe at radlab.nl>
Message-ID:
<A77B33D816BA6B4DB6BDA65A08DF8B99979395 at exchsvr2.npl.ad.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Keith,
The excellent paper below gives more information on tritium in concrete. Some of the tritium is mobile which will affect the depth profile.
Tritium Speciation in Nuclear Reactor Bioshield Concrete and its Impact on Accurate Analysis
Dae Ji Kim, Phillip E. Warwick and Ian W. Croudace (GAU-Radioanalytical, Southampton UK)
Analytical Chemistry, 2008, 80 (14), pp 5476-5480
Kind regards,
Arvic Harms
National Physical Laboratory
Teddington, UK
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl]On
> Behalf Of welch at jlab.org
> Sent: 25 February 2009 05:31
> To: radsafe at radlab.nl
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Fallout "preserved" in concrete
>
>
> Thank you all for the ideas and information regarding radioactivity in
> concrete. Because I did not give a lot of detail in asking the
> question, several of you have mentioned things that we have of course
> thought about and assessed. We have done gamma analysis on core
> samples of the blocks, and we have a fair idea of the inventory of
> gamma emitters.
> What was a
> little puzzling to us was that we detected tritium at considerably
> higher levels than the gamma emitters (it seemed high even considering
> half-life differences), and the tritium was in every block, even the
> ones that have no detectable gamma emitters. There also appears to be
> a lack of the expected depth profile (the expectation is that the
> tritium concentration should simply be proportional to the neutron
> flux at a given depth. But, we have not done an exhaustive study
> (number of samples is relatively small), and there's some question as
> to the reliability of the analysis technique. Also, we should
> probably not expect an idealized distribution, given variations in
> neutron fields and geometrical factors in the actual exposure
> conditions.
>
> There's also the possibility of an interfering agent (radiological or
> not) in the material that is causing "false positive" tritium results.
> That was the impetus for my original post - the idea that there is
> interference from fallout (since the blocks were made in the early
> sixties). But, since we're not seeing any Cs137 in the blocks, the
> possibility that other fallout nuclides are causing a problem seems
> remote. We're trying a few things to evaluate other interferences
> (sampling concrete from the building in areas where there should not
> have been any activation), and looking at sending our samples out for
> alternative analysis techniques. I will keep you posted as to what we
> find out. Again, thank you for your ideas, suggestions and reference
> materials offered. We will follow up on all of them.
>
> Best regards,
> Keith
>
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:47:57 +0000
From: Bjorn Cedervall <bcradsafers at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Radioactive Waste: The San Onofre File :
Indybay
To: Dutch Radsafers <radsafe at radlab.nl>
Message-ID: <SNT107-W62BADC00773042FA6D5157A9AC0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
:-(
My personal reflections appear as a comment after the article,
Bjorn Cedervall
----------------------------------------------------------------
> "Interesting" article:
>
> Radioactive Waste: The San Onofre File : Indybay
> (http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/02/22/18572644.php)
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™: Discover 10 secrets about the new Windows Live.
http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!7540.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_ugc_post_022009
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:26:22 -0500
From: Stephen Stasolla <stasolla at comcast.net>
Subject: [ RadSafe ] REP Instrumentation
To: radsafe at radlab.nl
Message-ID: <49A5712E.3040609 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
We are looking at options for replacing our existing REP sample counting
instrumentation. Does anyone have an opinion or experience with newer
instrumentation that we should consider for iodine & particulate sample
counting?
Thanks,
Steve Stasolla
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:55:24 -0800
From: "Brennan, Mike (DOH)" <Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV>
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: Fallout "preserved" in concrete
To: <welch at jlab.org>, <radsafe at radlab.nl>
Message-ID:
<37C41083D3480E4BBB478317773B845D0148EE71 at dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This is well outside of my area of expertise, but would it be possible
to break these samples all the way down and do mass spec on them? If
you get something with an atomic weight of 3, then you know you have
tritium. If you don't get any, then the false positive comes to the
fore.
Also, is the supposed tritium causing some problem with disposal?
Because it is really, really difficult to develop viable exposure
pathways. In fact, at one time I proposed that some water contaminated
with tritium at the hundreds of thousands or pCi/l be disposed of by
making concrete with it, and using the concrete in highway barriers and
bridge abutments. The scenario put forward as to why this was not
acceptable was, "What if a child chips pieces of concrete off and eats
them?" I contended that if that was happening there were parenting
issues that posed greater risk than tritium, and perhaps they shouldn't
let their children play on the freeway and eat rocks.
They don't send me to public meetings so much anymore.
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On
Behalf Of welch at jlab.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 9:31 PM
To: radsafe at radlab.nl
Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Fallout "preserved" in concrete
Thank you all for the ideas and information regarding radioactivity in
concrete. Because I did not give a lot of detail in asking the
question, several of you have mentioned things that we have of course
thought about and assessed. We have done gamma analysis on core samples
of the blocks, and we have a fair idea of the inventory of gamma
emitters. What was a little puzzling to us was that we detected tritium
at considerably higher levels than the gamma emitters (it seemed high
even considering half-life differences), and the tritium was in every
block, even the ones that have no detectable gamma emitters. There also
appears to be a lack of the expected depth profile (the expectation is
that the tritium concentration should simply be proportional to the
neutron flux at a given depth. But, we have not done an exhaustive
study (number of samples is relatively small), and there's some question
as to the reliability of the analysis technique. Also, we should
probably not expect an idealized distribution, given variations in
neutron fields and geometrical factors in the actual exposure
conditions.
There's also the possibility of an interfering agent (radiological or
not) in the material that is causing "false positive" tritium results.
That was the impetus for my original post - the idea that there is
interference from fallout (since the blocks were made in the early
sixties). But, since we're not seeing any Cs137 in the blocks, the
possibility that other fallout nuclides are causing a problem seems
remote. We're trying a few things to evaluate other interferences
(sampling concrete from the building in areas where there should not
have been any activation), and looking at sending our samples out for
alternative analysis techniques. I will keep you posted as to what we
find out. Again, thank you for your ideas, suggestions and reference
materials offered. We will follow up on all of them.
Best regards,
Keith
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:04:49 -0800
From: "Brennan, Mike (DOH)" <Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV>
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Radioactive Waste: The San Onofre File :
Indybay
To: "Dutch Radsafers" <radsafe at radlab.nl>
Message-ID:
<37C41083D3480E4BBB478317773B845D0148EE72 at dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There are so many errors of fact in the article it would be difficult to
list them. They are, however, outnumbered by the misstatement of facts
in order to lead people to incorrect conclusions.
It this is the best this paper can do, it deserves to go under. On the
bright side, no journalists would be harmed in the event.
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On
Behalf Of Bjorn Cedervall
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 2:48 AM
To: Dutch Radsafers
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Radioactive Waste: The San Onofre File :
Indybay
:-(
My personal reflections appear as a comment after the article,
Bjorn Cedervall
----------------------------------------------------------------
> "Interesting" article:
>
> Radioactive Waste: The San Onofre File : Indybay
> (http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/02/22/18572644.php)
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Discover 10 secrets about the new Windows Live.
http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cn
s!550F681DAD532637!7540.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_ugc_post_022009______
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:26:29 -0500
From: "Alston, Chris" <ALSTONCJ at gunet.georgetown.edu>
Subject: [ RadSafe ] Tritium in Concrete
To: "radsafe at radlab.nl" <radsafe at radlab.nl>
Message-ID:
<01B8BCD959FB2541B9D5506488E9859D39B3FEA230 at WODEXCH07.MEDSTAR.AD.MEDSTAR.NET>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Keith
Concrete has a great deal of H20 in it, you know. Wasn't it likely activated by primary or secondary neutrons from the cyclotron?
Cheer
cja
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:46:12 -0800
From: Roger Helbig <rwhelbig at gmail.com>
Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: [GeigerCounterEnthusiasts] alleged dirty
bomber killed by wife
To: GeigerCounterEnthusiasts at yahoogroups.com
Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl
Message-ID:
<7f90ec870902261846r5cf8a26euf0e3f022b0e37af7 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I would like those of you who know about what a Radiological Dispersal
Device, popularly known as a dirty bomb, really is should write their papers
and get the record corrected. The false story starts with an apparent FBI
report headed that he had Dirty Bomb Components - when in fact he had
explosives and some radiological material, but nothing suitable to make a
dirty bomb. I just got one website that caters to the security industry
Security Management Magazine to post a retraction. I have written
Associated Press (I even called their San Francisco office) and Bangor Daily
News, but neither of them replied. Here is where the correction is posted -
it has link to the Argonne National Laboratory fact sheet on RDDs -
Slain Neo-Nazi Wanted to Build a "Dirty
Bomb"<http://www.securitymanagement.com/news/slain-neo-nazi-wanted-build-dirty-bomb-005238>
Feb
25, 2009 - A Maine man who was shot and killed by his wife last December had
some of the components and instructions to build a dirty bomb, according to
a leaked Washington, DC, law enforcement intelligence report.
*(Correction)*
Roger Helbig
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Aaron Muderick <aaron at muderick.com> wrote:
> http://bangornews.com/detail/99263.html
>
> The detailed report indicates that he possessed 4 jars of depleted uranium
> metal and one one jar of thorium metal. That leads me to suspect he bought
> it at United Nuclear. That also means that he possessed say, less than 20
> grams of material. I guess that allows the lead of the story to say that he
> "had a cache of radioactive materials in his home suitable for building a
> “dirty bomb.â€
>
> Oh well. He's dead now. Sounds like he was a real scum bag and probably
> also an idiot.
>
> Aaron
> __._,_.___
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:03:27 -0600
From: Victor Goretsky <vgore03 at gmail.com>
Subject: [ RadSafe ] Free irradiators
To: radsafe at radlab.nl
Message-ID:
<68aa51450902270703n37d20bb6rcae75fefedc79e9b at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Two irradiators are looking for a new home.
US Nuclear model GR-4 Self-Shielded Cs-137 Irradiator.
Approximate 4pi irradiation volume for cells and small samples 20-30 ml.
Total activity is 225 Ci on January 1, 2009.
Co-60 "Open Pit Lead Mine" self-shielded cavity irradiator with Co-60 disk
source. Total activity is 10.8 Ci on January 1, 2009.
If you are licensed and interested in these units please contact me by email
vgoretsky at fpm.wisc.edu
.
Thank you,
Victor Goretsky
Radiation Safety Officer
UW- Madison
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:43:51 -0800
From: "Brennan, Mike (DOH)" <Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV>
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: [GeigerCounterEnthusiasts] alleged dirty
bomberkilled by wife
To: <GeigerCounterEnthusiasts at yahoogroups.com>
Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl
Message-ID:
<37C41083D3480E4BBB478317773B845D0148EE76 at dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>From the information in the article, I think he probably was at least
toying with the idea of trying to build a RDD. If, indeed, he was
dumping all the chemicals they listed in the article into the same jars
the most likely outcome had he actually tried was that he would have
killed himself with fire or fumes or premature detonation. He clearly
wasn't nice, and he didn't sound very smart, either.
While an explosion that scattered DU would be no more destructive or
dangerous than the same explosion without DU, the media response and the
public reaction would almost certainly be much larger.
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On
Behalf Of Roger Helbig
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 6:46 PM
To: GeigerCounterEnthusiasts at yahoogroups.com
Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl
Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: [GeigerCounterEnthusiasts] alleged dirty
bomberkilled by wife
I would like those of you who know about what a Radiological Dispersal
Device, popularly known as a dirty bomb, really is should write their
papers and get the record corrected. The false story starts with an
apparent FBI report headed that he had Dirty Bomb Components - when in
fact he had explosives and some radiological material, but nothing
suitable to make a dirty bomb. I just got one website that caters to
the security industry Security Management Magazine to post a retraction.
I have written Associated Press (I even called their San Francisco
office) and Bangor Daily News, but neither of them replied. Here is
where the correction is posted - it has link to the Argonne National
Laboratory fact sheet on RDDs - Slain Neo-Nazi Wanted to Build a "Dirty
Bomb"<http://www.securitymanagement.com/news/slain-neo-nazi-wanted-build
-dirty-bomb-005238>
Feb
25, 2009 - A Maine man who was shot and killed by his wife last December
had some of the components and instructions to build a dirty bomb,
according to a leaked Washington, DC, law enforcement intelligence
report.
*(Correction)*
Roger Helbig
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Aaron Muderick <aaron at muderick.com>
wrote:
> http://bangornews.com/detail/99263.html
>
> The detailed report indicates that he possessed 4 jars of depleted
> uranium metal and one one jar of thorium metal. That leads me to
> suspect he bought it at United Nuclear. That also means that he
> possessed say, less than 20 grams of material. I guess that allows
> the lead of the story to say that he "had a cache of radioactive
> materials in his home suitable for building a "dirty bomb."
>
> Oh well. He's dead now. Sounds like he was a real scum bag and
> probably also an idiot.
>
> Aaron
> __._,_.___
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