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Re: S. Farber's supposed "libel" of Antinuke Russell Hoffman -CONTINUED
Radsafe:
Last week, I had forwaded "an interesting exchange" of views and facts regarding an antinuclear activist, a Russell "Demon Hot Atom" Hoffman, who has since 9/11 been posting information all over the web about how to sabotage nuclear power plants. As you may recall, another antinuclear activist named Jack Shannon had jumped in to defend Hoffman's honor when I simply questioned Hoffman's claim that commercial nuclear plants exist only to supply plutonium for bomb production.
If you want to see what happens when facts confront dogma read on. Either enjoy or delete, your choice.
Stewart Farber, MS Public Health
Public Health Sciences
email: SAFarberMSPH@cs.com
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LAST EMAIL SENT TO MR. SHANNON, DEFENDER OF RUSSELL HOFFMAN CONCERNING MY QUESTIONING NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS AND PU TO MILITARY FOR BOMB PRODUCTION:
Subj: Re: S. Farber's supposed "libel" of Antinuke Russell Hoffman -Continued
Date: 10/23/01 12:33:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: RadiumProj (Stewart Farber)
To: smirnowb@ix.netcom.com, Jacksha1@aol.com, rstater@pipeline.com, rhoffman@animatedsoftware.com
Dear Mr. Shannon:
Your tantrum in your reply below in response to my pointing out that you ignored the basic facts raised in my initial comment about Mr. Hoffman concerning commercial nuclear power only existing to supply plutonium to the military, which you incorrectly defended as being accurate, is quite amusing. There is no need to take you "to court" as you suggest below since you are so obviously guilty of assault and battery on the truth, and facts don't matter to you. When you and Mr. Hoffman are so clearly willing to ignore scientific and historical facts you go from being an advocate for a position to being a crude propagandist.
Further, I won't be bothering to exchange any factural information with you for as the old saying goes there is no point in getting into a battle of wits with you or Mr. Hoffman, since I refuse to duel with unarmed individuals.
Your willingness to sink into ad hominem attacks while ignoring the technical issues I questioned, clearly shows you don't have any way to defend your statements or those of Mr. Hoffman which you defended so completely as being uniformly accurate.
Your anger is quite understandable since your technical claims and arguments have been found to be so empty and flawed.
Stewart Farber, MS Public Health
Public Health Sciences
Radium Experiment Assessment Project - REAP
Director
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MR. SHANNON'S REPLY TO MY 10/22 EMAIL QUESTIONING HIM IGNORING THE QUESTION AT HAND:
Subj: Re: Stewart Farber's supposed "libel" of Russell Hoffman -Continued
Date: 10/23/01 11:42:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Jacksha1@aol.com
To: RadiumProj, rhoffman@animatedsoftware.com
I really don't have time for any more assholes. Your issue is not whether or not bombs have been made from depleted fuel or not. You are pro nuclear and will stay that way no matter what I say. If you don't like my response take me to court.
The world is full of assholes like you. Guys like Hoffman come along one in a million.
Jack Shannon
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EMAIL TO MR. SHANNON FOLLOWING UP ON OUR EXCHANGE OF VIEWS ON 10/18
Subj: Re: Stewart Farber's supposed "libel" of Russell Hoffman -Continued
Date: 10/22/01 11:13:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: RadiumProj
To: Jacksha1@aol.com, smirnowb@ix.netcom.com, rstater@pipeline.com, rhoffman@animatedsoftware.com
Mr. Shannon:
Your reply below to what you initially termed my "libel" of Russell Hoffman completely skirts the issue that commercial nuclear power plant spent fuel is not now, and has never been reprocessed into weapon's feedstocks for nuclear bomb production.
Your general comments in your 10/18 email below about vague problems with reprocessing in the past [at Hanford and KAPL, which involved plutonium reprocessing from military Pu production reactors or spent Navy nuclear fuel] or general concerns about proliferation have nothing to do with the questions I posed to you about the earlier false claims by Hoffman about commercial nuclear power. Your response of 10/18 studiously ignores the completely erroneous, and irresponsible statements made by Mr. Hoffman which you claim to agree with and which you defend as being accurate related to commercial nuclear power plants existing only because of the military need for plutonium. You write: "I have found him to be consistently correct when he discusses any and all aspects of the Nuclear Industry". Your claim is obviously unsupportable, since Hoffman's absurd claim regarding commercial nuclear energy and bomb production is untrue.
You write:
"The fact is that PU can be extracted from depleted uranium or the natural uranium found in all commercial reactors."
I'm not sure what you mean about extracting Pu from "depleted uranium...in all commercial reactors" but your comment above is irrelevent to the entire period of commercial nuclear power plant operations in the US since the late 1950s. The fact that commercial spent fuel can [as you put it] be extracted ignores the basic reality that commercial spent nuclear fuel is not being reprocessed, no plans exist to reprocess it for plutonium extraction, and when there was some small scale commercial nuclear fuel reprocessing trials in the late 1960s and 1970s plutonium was never being extracted for military purposes.
If you are going to hold yourself out as an expert in nuclear matters and claim that propagandists and scare-mongers like Mr. Hoffman are always right, you should try to stick to relevant facts and not embrace flawed arguments, irrelevant to the question at hand. If you want to be regarded as a responsible technical specialist or scientist you should stick to the issues and not ignore basic logic, scientific facts, and history.
Regards,
Stewart Farber, MS Public Health
Public Health Sciences
Radium Experiment Assessment Project - Director
email: RadiumProj@cs.com
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10/18/01 REPLY TO MY EARLIER EMAIL TO MR. SHANNON:
In a message dated 10/18/01 3:53:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jacksha1@aol.com writes:
Subj:Re: Stewart Farber's supposed "libel" of Russell Hoffman
Date:10/18/01 3:53:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From:Jacksha1@aol.com
To:RadiumProj, smirnowb@ix.netcom.com, rstater@pipeline.com, rhoffman@animatedsoftware.com
Stewart:
PU has been extracted from depleted Uranium at the Knolls Atomic Power Laboratory in Schenectady, NY and at Hanford Washington using the SPRU method which was developed at KAPL. I don't know if it was found to be more cost effective to extract it someplace else or using a somewhat different process.
The fact is that PU can be extracted from depleted uranium or the natural uranium found in all commercial reactors. The PU is therefore available to extract anytime the morons in Washington decide to do so. There are still people in this Country who think we need more, not less, bombs.
Reprocessing and extraction was stopped at Hanford because it was found to be en ecological nightmare. A reprocessing facility is available in Idaho to reprocess Naval Fuel and that is also a disaster. This process was intended to extract the unused U235 from the naval plants but has been shut down for years.
Processing in general as been found to be an ecological disaster every place it has been tried and that is why we have a moratorium on any reprocessing in this Country.
Ecological nightmare or not the process will be used if it is found that the Chinese, or whoever have more bombs than we have. So Russ is correct on his points. The fact that it is not present done does not mean experiments are not now being done and it does not mean the process has not been used in the past.
It is true that one of the purposes of the commercial power plants was to generate "free" energy for America forever. Unfortunately that has been found to be untrue even with government subsidization. As it turns out Nuclear Power can't compete with anything without subsidization from the federal government which means us.
I have no relationship with Mr. Hoffman other than a very common sense guy I met on the web, and no I don't get any money for being anti Nuclear.
I became anti nuclear when I finally came to the conclusion that both of the agencies "regulating" the business cannot be trusted to regulate and they both are corrupt to the core.
Nothing will go to Yucca Mountain or anyplace else because the DOE cannot be trusted to do the job and no one can prove that the waste will not be spread all over hells half acre during transport and/or storage. I wouldn't trust the DOE/NRC to oversee banana peel waste. We do not have the same quality of people in the business that we had even up to 20 years ago. The business is now managed by "professional" government managers who could not manage to come in out of the rain.
I think I mentioned in my first letter that I was removed from KAPL after I exposed a $100,000, 000 asbestos mess at KAPL. Even though they got rid of me they still had to clean up the mess. Somehow they thought I would go away and they would not have to spend the money. Well, I didn't go away and I was able to bring enough pressure to have the asbestos cleaned up in spite of opposition from the DOE, GE and the Navy.
Have a nice day.
And by the way check with the Hanford or any Nuclear Facility now hiring new people by what is meant by "...eating their young...."
Have a nice day
Jack Shannon
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EMAIL FROM STEWART FARBER OF 10/18 TO JACK SHANNON WHICH RESULTED IN REPLY ABOVE:
Subj: Re: Stewart Farber's supposed "libel" of Russell Hoffman
Date: 10/18/01 1:28:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: RadiumProj (Stewart Farber)
To: Jacksha1@aol.comr, hoffman@animatedsoftware.com, rstater@pipeline.com, smirnowb@ix.netcom.com
Mr. Shannon:
Since you have chosen to respond to my email to Mr. Hoffman yesterday, and copied a reply to a large distribution, a few questions of you seem reasonable.
What is your relationship to Mr. Hoffman that you assume the duty of defending his honor against what you term my "libel" of his posting to the DOEWatch list srv concening his being tossed off the Military Toxics Project list srv for making off-topic posts?
Also, I'm intrigued that with all the nuclear qualifications you claim, you agree completely with Mr. Hoffman that civilian nuclear power plants exist only to serve as a source of fissile material for nuclear weapons. Somehow I've been deluded into thinking commercial nuclear plants generate electricity as a major product, and the spent fuel is not being reporcessed because of a large number of factors including anti-nuclear activism since the 1970s by many interests hoping to adversly affect nuclear power economics and shut down all nuclear power plants.
Could you please educate me as to where commercial nuclear fuel is being reprocessed into material for bombs today or any time in the distant past? Why has spent fuel been piling up at nuclear power plant sites all over the US since the 1970s because the US government banned commercial reprocessing under Pres. Carter for a lot of questionable reasons, and has failed to open a repository for spent fuel, a responsibility and perogative assumed under Federal law and for which the nuclear plants have set aside funds to the US Treasury? Is Yucca Mountain going to be receiving unprocessed fuel rods, or is someone reprocessing spent fuel on the sly and diverting plutonium for weapons?
I'd really appreciate your answers to these basic question since you state Mr. Hoffman is always correct and you claim to have so much knowledge of this area.
Thanks for anything you can provide me to correct what must be some confusion on my part about commercial nuclear power plants supplying weapons grade feedstocks for nuclear weapons manufacture.
Also you accuse me of "staying withim " some unspecified organization "that is so corrupt it eats it's young". WOW. Jonathan Swift has nothing on you. What organization am I part of that is busy eating its young? I'm not employed by any organization connected with the nuclear power industry and derive no income from it.
Do you derive any income from opposing nuclear energy issues? Always glad to get such insightful comments from a nuclear expert like yourself.
Have a nice day,
Stewart Farber, MS Public Health
Radium Experiment Assessment Project - REAP
Director
email: RadiumProj@cs.com
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