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RE: Radiation Hormesis -- or not



Interesting.  In that case cancer cells have a

distinct advantage in evolution.  They represent an

immortal cell line.  Bummer to the host human.



--- "Flanigan, Floyd" <Floyd.Flanigan@nmcco.com>

wrote:

> In my view, it is not whether the favor falls with

> positive or negative mutation, rather the likelihood

> of the survival of the subject cell, plant or

> organism. If the mutation is an improvement, the

> subject would tend to thrive and reproduce, possibly

> passing on the trait to one or more of its

> offspring. This improves the subject down-line and

> would theoretically make it stronger and more likely

> to survive than any non-mutated subjects of the

> preceeding down-line.

> 

> Floyd W. Flanigan B.S.Nuc.H.P.

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird@YAHOO.COM]

> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 7:37 AM

> To: Neil, David M; Carl Speer;

> radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu

> Subject: RE: Radiation Hormesis -- or not

> 

> 

> That is my point.  ". . . a mutational effect, which

> 

> changes random genes, would produce random

> phenotypes.

>  ." While they are not uniformly superior neither

> are

> they uniformly inferior.  

> 

> I am not a expert in plant genetics, so may be the

> irradiation of seeds is a hormetic effect.  I raised

> the question since it is frequently cited, and I

> have

> not seen any detailed study of genetic changes,

> which

> to me are not hormetic.  I think someone else said

> that chemicals can also cause drastic changes in

> plant

> responses.  This is all well and good, but what is

> the

> implications to humans?

> 

> --- "Neil, David M" <neildm@id.doe.gov> wrote:

> > Why would a genetic mutation favor a negative

> > effect?  Because there are lots more ways to "do

> it

> > wrong" than there are to "do it different but

> > right".  Change as little as one peptide in

> insulin,

> > for example, and you don't survive to breed

> without

> > medical support.

> > 

> > To use your example, proto-primates which could

> grip

> > better (within natural variation) could climb

> > better, and therefore  could escape danger easier

> > and survive to breed, and also had easier access

> to

> > food (either pick-a-fruit or grab-a-bug) and

> > therefore bred more frequently, more successfully

> > and longer.  

> > 

> > As stated, the uniformity of the effect indicates

> > the nature of the effect: a mutational effect,

> which

> > changes random genes, would produce random

> > phenotypes, not uniformly superior phenotypes.

> > 

> > Dave Neil  

> > B.A. Zoology, University of South Florida

> > 

> > 

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird@yahoo.com]

> > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 2:17 PM

> > To: Neil, David M; Carl Speer;

> > radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu

> > Subject: RE: Radiation Hormesis -- or not

> > 

> > 

> > Why would a genetic mutation favor a negative

> > effect? 

> > After all, evolution shows that genetic effects

> are

> > positive since they allow the organism to adapt. 

> > Primates did not get opposed thumbs by willing it

> to

> > happen.  It was genetics.

> > 

> > Again, my statement was that it should have been

> > checked to see if it was a genetic mutation by

> > following the growth pattern of the off-spring. 

> > 

> > <SNIP>

> 

> 

> =====

> +++++++++++++++++++

> "I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal

> hostility against every form of tyranny over the

> mind of man."

> Thomas Jefferson

> 

> -- John

> John Jacobus, MS

> Certified Health Physicist

> e-mail:  crispy_bird@yahoo.com

> 

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=====

+++++++++++++++++++

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

Thomas Jefferson



-- John

John Jacobus, MS

Certified Health Physicist

e-mail:  crispy_bird@yahoo.com



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