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RE: Earth georeactor - recent publications



Dale,



I think you're right that neutrinos from the beta decay of the neutron are

not an issue, because there aren't any D-D reactions in the sun.

In his seminal book "Principles of Stellar Evolution and Nucleosynthesis,"

Donald Clayton writes concerning p-p fusion that the weak nuclear

interaction is so exceedingly rare, that the deuterium (D)  that has been

formed never actually encounters another D.

As Clayton explains, "after the deuterium has been formed [in the p-p

fusion], one could imagine that He-4 might be produced by the reaction D +

D --> He-4 + ?. This reaction, however, suffers from..... the fact that the

deuterium abundance is kept very small by its interaction with protons [in

the reaction D + p --> He-3 + ?, following which the helium nuclei fuse

according to He-3 + He-3 --> He-4 + p + p ].

.....That these are the major reactions comes about because..... D can build

up only to a very small abundance." [ie. two Ds never bump into each other

in the sea of protons....]



According to

http://www.shef.ac.uk/uni/academic/N-Q/phys/people/vdhillon/teaching/phy213/

phy213_fusion3.html , "This [p-p] reaction occurs via the weak nuclear force

and the average proton in the Sun will undergo such a reaction approximately

once in the lifetime of the Sun, i.e. once every 10 billion years" (the

sun's life) ...this in spite of the fact that the protons undergo

approximately 10 billion collisions per second with other protons in the

solar interior.



Additional reference :

http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/theory/weakinteract.html

Beta Decay: The First Known Weak Interaction

The weak interaction was first recognized in cataloging the types of nuclear

radioactive decay chains, as alpha, beta, and gamma. decays. Alpha and gamma

decays can be understood in terms of other known interactions (residual

strong and electromagnetic, respectively). But, to explain beta decay

required the introduction of an additional rare type of interaction --

called the weak interaction.

Beta decay is a process in which a neutron (two down quarks and one up)

disappears and is replaced by a proton (two up quarks and one down), an

electron, and an anti-electron neutrino. According to the Standard Model, a

down quark disappears in this process and an up quark and a virtual W boson

is produced.. The W boson then decays to produce an electron and an

anti-electron type neutrino.



I can't answer your second question properly right now, since I'm not that

familiar with neutrino detectors (scintillators).

But the articles I've seen so far - including the ones I referenced in the

initial posting - don't seem too concerned about the solar neutrino

background.

Part of it is no doubt because the detectors used are directional (ie.

neutrinos coming from above can be discounted) and part of it seems to be

taken into account with the typical statement, "The signal can be tagged by

the signal produced after several tens of microseconds by the thermalised

neutron captured by hydrogen in the aromatic organic liquid scintillator.

The delayed coincidences suppress background enormously and the chance

coincidence rate in a kiloton scintillator mass detector such as installed

at Kamioka, Japan, can be limited to several events/year (Rhagavan, 2002)."

It is this thermalised neutron capture by hydrogen which also allows the

detector to be directional, since " The initial neutron direction vector is

kinematically correlated to the neutrino vector. Despite the thermalization

and diffusion of the neutron, the e+-n spatial displacement vector still

retains the memory of the original neutron direction, thus also the incident

neutrino vector. This major result was demonstrated in a practical liquid

scintillation detector recently in the CHOOZE experiment5 which observed the

`ne spectrum from a 3GW reactor ~1km away. They showed that the data could

point to the known direction of the reactor within a cone of half-angle of

18°. [...] Thus in principle, with reasonably good signal/background and

signal rates, `ne signals from surface power reactors and geo-U.Th could be

unscrambled from those of a georeactor in the center of the earth by their

orthogonal directions of origin even in a liquid scintillation detector."

(Rhagavan, 2002)



Hope this helps -- perhaps someone more knowledgeable can fill us in in

greater detail ?



 Jaro

http://www.cns-snc.ca/branches/quebec/quebec.html



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^





-----Original Message-----

From: owner-radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu

[mailto:owner-radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu]On Behalf Of daleboyce@charter.net

Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 3:10 PM

To: Franta, Jaroslav; Radsafe (E-mail)

Subject: Re: Earth georeactor - recent publications





Franta,



It's an interesting article.  My first reaction was to wonder how they sort

the georeactor signal out from the solar flux.  Most of the solar flux is

neutrinos instead of antineutrinos. Since the main fusion cycle in the sun

doesn't generate any neutrons, the products tend to be neutron deficient.  I

don't have a ready reference, but I would expect there to be some component

that does generate neutrons.  For example D + D -> He3 + n.  The neutrino

from the beta decay of the neutron wouldn't be energetic enough to produce a

positron though.  However it could be captured to form an isotope that does

have a high enough decay energy.  The rate should be small compared to the

neutrino flux, so it may not be an issue.



My other question would be how are they differentiating positrons from

negatrons? It doesn't say anything about looking for the annihilation

gamma-rays, and a positron looks a lot like a negatron in a scintillation

counter.



All this may be well thought through, but it would be interesting to know

how they are making the differentiation.  Ray Davis got a piece of the Nobel

Prize in physics in 2002 for his solar neutrino work that began in 1964.

For years his results that the solar neutrino flux was a factor of 3 lower

than predicted were looked upon as flawed, but he kept up the battle and was

vindicated. The electron neutrino flux was low due to oscillations of

electron neutrinos into other flavors of neutrino, and their energy was too

low to create the inverse reaction into their respective lepton.



If the georeactor detector has a background due to solar neutrinos then

picking the signal out of the background could be difficult.  That's an

understatement since the experiment is very difficult to begin.



Now off to dust off the old E&M book to see if 3TW is enough to generate the

earth's magnetic field.  Small field but big magnet.  Thanks for the post.

It's something to play with for a bit.



Does anyone know more about these experiments?



Dale



----- Original Message -----

From: Franta, Jaroslav

To: Multiple (E-mail) ; Radsafe (E-mail) ; ANS listserv (E-mail)

Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 7:17 AM

Subject: Earth georeactor - recent publications





A couple of publications from Russia's RAS and the Kurchatov Institute, and

one from the Netherlands, are available in pdf format on Marvin Herndon's

web site, nuclearplanet.com

G. Domogatski, V. Kopeikin, L. Milaelyan and V. Sinev, "Neutrino Geophysics

at Baksan I: Possible Detection of Georeactor Antineutrinos" arXiv.org

(January 28, 2004).

http://www.nuclearplanet.com/Neutrino%20Geophysics%20at%20Baksan%20I.pdf

And also arXiv.org (March 17, 2004).

http://www.nuclearplanet.com/0403155.pdf

R. J. de Meijer, E. R. van der Graaf and K. P. Jungmann, "Quest for a

Nuclear Georeactor", arXiv.org (April 8, 2004).

http://www.nuclearplanet.com/0404046.pdf

It appears that interest in this is building world-wide.

Exciting times !

Jaro

http://www.cns-snc.ca/branches/quebec/quebec.html

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^





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