Re: Harmless = p benefit - p harm.

[John Jacobus <crispy_bird@yahoo.com>]

Not a new issue.  Preception of "safe" is the issue. 

I believe that you said that even your wife was not

convinced that low doses of radiation is safe.



You have the advantage as a physician.  You can say to

a patient this will help you.  Do you ever explain the

risks of aspirin?





--- howard long <hflong@pacbell.net> wrote:



> Is aspirin (or Vioxx) "safe" or "harmless"? Of

> course not, in high dose, or for people with stomach

> trouble.

> However, most physicians advise aspirin in small

> dose, <325 mg (= <5 cSv?) to slow clottiing and

> prevent epidemic coronary thrombosis.

>  

> Thus, benefit must be wieghed against harm to

> determine overall risk. The total mortality rate of

> older women taking estrogen/progestin is the same as

> when taking placebo - but much greater among the 50%

> who smoked. So, hormone replacement therapy (or

> <5cSv) seems good for some people, but should be

> avoided in susceptibles, like smokers (or the extra

> radiation in persons with severe burns).

>  

> When will "scientific" physicists start measuring

> risk like "unscientifoc" physicians and economists,

> by weighing the positive with the negative, the

> benefit with the harm?

> It is not enough to say that p harm is small.

> Authorities must also weigh the p benefit!

>  

> Howard Long MD

> 

> Bill Prestwich <prestwic@mcmaster.ca> wrote:

> Once again I think there is a semantic trap here. As

> far as I know there is

> no scientific definition of the word safe-but by

> default many in the

> radiation protection field seem to equate it with

> zero risk. A small but

> finite risk in most activities is considered safe.

> Bill

> 

> "Stabin, Michael" wrote:

> 

> > >The language suggested by NIH is the same weasel

> wording that totally

> > confuses the public in my experience. The public

> has no conception of

> > what "minimal" or "acceptable" means in this

> context.

> >

> > What was nice about this language is that the NIH

> worked for about 18

> > months with a broad spectrum of individuals to get

> language that is

> > technically accurate, but able to be understood

> even by people with

> > limited educational background. Everyone can

> relate to the number of

> > months of simple existence; some do not relate,

> for example, to trips in

> > airplanes, smoking, hang gliding, or other

> risk-related analogies.

> >

> > >Why is it that we cannot say "Low doses are

> safe," in the general sense

> > of the word and let it go at that....There are

> many in the health

> > physics, medical profession, ethicists and others

> who agree that low

> > doses are safe and harmless. Why can't we say so?

> >

> > Ummm, because it is contradicted by a large body

> of reliable scientific

> > evidence? Yes, there are "many" who believe what

> you state. There are

> > "many" who, quite honestly, believe that low

> levels may be associated

> > with some small, but finite risks. Both positions

> can selectively cite

> > the literature that they wish to push their point

> of view, but the issue

> > is far from settled. Representing it otherwise is

> scientifically

> > unjustified and ethically (not to mention legally)

> on shaky ground.

> >

> > Mike

> >

> > Michael G. Stabin, PhD, CHP

> > Assistant Professor of Radiology and Radiological

> Sciences

> > Department of Radiology and Radiological Sciences

> > Vanderbilt University

> > 1161 21st Avenue South

> > Nashville, TN 37232-2675

> > Phone (615) 343-0068

> > Fax (615) 322-3764

> > Pager (615) 835-5153

> > e-mail michael.g.stabin@vanderbilt.edu

> > internet www.doseinfo-radar.com

> >

> >

> >

>

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> 





=====

+++++++++++++++++++

"The real threat to the life of the nation, in the sense of a people living in accordance with its traditional laws and political values, comes not from terrorism but from laws such as these."

LORD HOFFMAN, of Britain's highest court, which ruled against indefinite detention of terror suspects





-- John

John Jacobus, MS

Certified Health Physicist

e-mail:  crispy_bird@yahoo.com





		

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