[ RadSafe ] Re: radsafe Digest, Vol 7, Issue 7
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> > Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Hospital emergency response and RDD waste
> management
> (alstonchris at netscape.net)
> 2. Re: Hospital emergency response and RDD waste
> managem ent
> (LNMolino at aol.com)
> 3. Re: Hospital emergency response and RDD waste
> managem ent
> (LNMolino at aol.com)
> 4. Re: Hospital emergency response and RDD waste
> management
> (LNMolino at aol.com)
> 5. Hospital emergency response and RDD waste
> management
> (Jose Julio Rozental)
> 6. Re: Hospital emergency response and RDD waste
> managem ent
> (dckosloff at firstenergycorp.com)
> 7. Re: Hospital emergency response and RDD waste
> managem ent
> (LNMolino at aol.com)
> 8. RE: Hospital emergency response and RDD waste
> management
> (Peter.Vernig at med.va.gov)
> 9. California Man Sets Off Nuclear Alert Detector
> (Efforrer at aol.com)
> 10. Re: California Man Sets Off Nuclear Alert
> Detector (Sandy Perle)
> 11. Re: Hospital emergency response and RDD waste
> management
> (mpatterson at canberra.com)
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.1 message/rfc822
> From: alstonchris at netscape.net
> To: Peter.Vernig at med.va.gov, radsafe at radlab.nl
> Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 18:13:56 -0500
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Hospital emergency response and
> RDD waste management
>
> Peter
>
> Put it down the sanitary sewer *please*, not the
> storm drains, unless it's some kind of ultimate
> extremity. For one thing, it's not legal to dispose
> of hazmat (I'm using the term loosely) in the storm
> sewers (one can imagine your finding yourself with
> an EPA citation, on top of everything else).
> Sanitary sewerage is pretty well controlled and
> monitored. It shouldn't be difficult to figure out
> how much is there, even at the treatment plant. The
> storm drains can potentially overflow anywhere
> upstream of the final discharge point.
>
> As an aside, and FYI, Seattle (or maybe King
> County), about ten years ago, seriously contemplated
> requiring hospitals to inform them, prior to a nuc
> med pt's flushing of the toilet. I believe that
> they received some good counselling from the State
> DOH on the issue.
>
> Cheers
> cja
>
> P.S. In some countries, e.g. Canada, I think, they
> are required to hold for decay the effluent from,
> e.g., I-131 inpatients. Our regulatory burden in
> the USA is not always as onerous as it seems.
>
>
> I would run it
> >right into the sewer or storm drain, counting on
> massive dilution to render
> >it innocuous. What else can you do really, when
> you think about it. Most
> >hospitals are not going to have the liquid storage
> capacity. One of the VA
> >hospitals put in about a 2000 gallon (7600 l)
> holding tank, that would be
> >good for about 114 patients/deconees.
>
> >
> >
> >Any opinions in this e-mail are solely those of the
> author, and are not
> >represented as those of the VA Eastern Colorado
> HCS, the Dept. of Veterans
> >Affairs, or the US Government.
> >
> >Peter G. Vernig, Radiation Safety Officer, MS-115,
> VA Eastern Colorado
> >Health Care System, 1055 Clermont St. Denver, CO
> 80220,
> >peter.vernig at med.va.gov, Phone= 303.399.8020 x2447;
> Fax = 303.393.5026,
> >alternate fax, 303.393.5248
> >
> >"...whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever
> is lovely, whatever is
> >admirable, if anything is found to be excellent or
> praiseworthy, let your
> >mind dwell on these things."
> >
> >Paul of Tarsus
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl]On
> >Behalf Of Bradt, Clayton
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 12:27 PM
> >To: Radsafe (radsafe at radlab.nl)
> >Subject: FW: [ RadSafe ] Hospital emergency
> response and RDD waste
> >managem ent
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Any realistic solution to the problem of rad waste
> following an RDD event
> >would be so hateful to the eco-crazies that it
> would be impossible for any
> >government agency to ever make such a plan public
> before the fact. I am
> >unaware of anyone actually working on such a plan.
> I suspect that any
> >decisions on what to do about rad waste will be
> made ad hoc during the
> >crisis when there will be no time for opponents to
> get organized against
> >them.
> >
> >Clayton J. Bradt, CHP
> >Principal Radiophysicist
> >NYS Dept. of Labor
> >phone: (518) 457 1202
> >fax: (518) 485 7406
> >e-mail: clayton.bradt at labor.state.ny.us
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Andrew Lukban [mailto:ALukban at chpnet.org]
> >Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 5:20 PM
> >To: radsafe at radlab.nl
> >Subject: [ RadSafe ] Hospital emergency response
> and RDD waste management
> >
> >
> >I am the RSO in a hospital in New York City. Our
> hospital Emergency
> >Management Committee has been charged with planning
> a procedure of
> >response to emergency situations associated with
> radiation dispersal
> >devices (RDD's or "dirty bombs".) It is rumored
> that the next round of
> >city-wide table-top exercises for emergency
> preparedness are to involve
> >RDD scenarios. There are many things invloved with
> such a scenario which
> >range from detection (portal monitors), isotope
> identification (handheld
> >MCA), determination of internal decontamination
> (swab nostrils and mouth
> >and count), actual decontamination (undress,
> shower), calculation of
> >scheduled quantities in sewage from mass showering
> (close my eyes),
> >treatment (should be teh doc's job), dose
> calculations (call REAC/TS)
> >and... waste management (?).
> >
> >I can almost deal with all the first steps but find
> myself bothered by
> >"waste management". I suppose it is not "waste"
> but, rather, "evidence"
> >if it were involved with an act of terrorism. What
> could be used for an
> >RDD? By nature of it being "dispersed" to cause
> maximum panic, it is
> >also more spread out and less concentrated when
> concerns about
> >contamination are brought up. This is different
> then from a single
> >source planted in one place and resulting in plain
> ol' external exposure
> >because the hospital would not be dealing with
> radiaiton contaminated
> >patients and produce radiation "waste" that I would
> ten have to deal
> >with.
> >
> >Liquid RAM would likely be stolen from a medical
> purpose (likely imaging
> >and not oncology) and is likely the the easiest to
> disperse but is also
> >the shortest lived. Longer lived, higher specific
> activity material have
> >half-lives > 65 days and usually is from a solid
> form and would have to
> >be crushed for dispersal if the mode of dispersal
> is not via explosion.
> >It is interesting to note that regulations prevent
> us from doing
> >decay-in-storage for materials with half-lives >65
> days. I would be
> >requird to return it to the "vendor" - "Hello Mr
> Terrorist, here's your
> >stuff back." No matter. Either way, both short
> lived and long lived RAM
> >"waste" now present at the hospital resulting from
> decon, emesis, feces,
> >etc. would not have been "purchased according to
> our license" and the
> >institution should not be responsible for storing
> or disposing it. We
> >can follow due diligence in preparing for proper
> radiation safety
> >procedure to contain and isolate the stuff, but
> what is the limit of
> >preparation? Should we prepare for storing clothing
> contaminated with
> >therapeutic amounts of powdered Co-60? How many Pb
> lined steel drums is
> >considered OK? What government entity will say that
> the "foreign RAM of
> >extramural origin" is "their problem" and will pick
> it up? Should I be
> >pursuing a memo of understanding with some
> magically appropriate
> >government entity? Real estate is big problem in
> NYC and there is no
> >"spare parking lot" that can be used to contain RAM
> in an emergency
> >scenario.
> >
> >The more I think about it, the more I think that
> the conclusion is that
> >"radioactive waste" from an RDD emergency is NOT
> the hospital's problem
> >in the long term. However, what is considered the
> short
=== message truncated ===
> ATTACHMENT part 3.2 message/rfc822
> From: LNMolino at aol.com
> To: radsafe at radlab.nl
> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:35:25 EST
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hospital emergency response
> and RDD waste managem ent
>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/2/2005 4:26:09 P.M. Central
> Standard Time,
> wilsonr at psns.navy.mil writes:
>
> As a side note, how do biological contaminates
> alter this scenario?
>
> DECON or rather destruction of BIO agents even MIL
> grade is really easy all
> you need is STB and or even off the shelf bleach and
> time. The real problem
> with that is from the evidence standpoint which is
> why many in the LE world
> refer to FD's EDU's or Evidence Destruction Units.
>
>
> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET
> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI
> LNMolino at aol.com
> 979-690-3607 (Home Office)
> 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone)
> 979-458-0795 (TEEX Office)
>
> "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude"
>
> The comments contained in this E-mail are the
> opinions of the author and the
> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for
> any person or
> organization that I am in any way whatsoever
> involved or associated with unless I
> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this
> E-mail is intended only for its
> stated recipient and may contain private and or
> confidential materials
> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed
> in the public domain by the
> original author.
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.3 message/rfc822
> From: LNMolino at aol.com
> To: radsafe at radlab.nl
> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:37:13 EST
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hospital emergency response
> and RDD waste managem ent
>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/2/2005 4:28:41 P.M. Central
> Standard Time,
> Peter.Vernig at med.va.gov writes:
>
> I have the feeling that although we might get
> swamped with contaminated
> people or people who think they are contaminated
> that the actual number of
> contaminated and injured personnel would likely be
> small and contamination not
> great.
>
> I'd agree but add that many of those that "think"
> they are contaminated are
> going to keep thinking that even with monitoring and
> the like and that in and
> of itself presents a problem fro the response and
> medical community.
>
>
> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET
> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI
> LNMolino at aol.com
> 979-690-3607 (Home Office)
> 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone)
> 979-458-0795 (TEEX Office)
>
> "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude"
>
> The comments contained in this E-mail are the
> opinions of the author and the
> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for
> any person or
> organization that I am in any way whatsoever
> involved or associated with unless I
> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this
> E-mail is intended only for its
> stated recipient and may contain private and or
> confidential materials
> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed
> in the public domain by the
> original author.
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.4 message/rfc822
> From: LNMolino at aol.com
> To: radsafe at radlab.nl
> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:46:50 EST
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hospital emergency response
> and RDD waste management
>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/2/2005 5:19:28 P.M. Central
> Standard Time,
> alstonchris at netscape.net writes:
>
> Put it down the sanitary sewer *please*, not the
> storm drains, unless it's
> some kind of ultimate extremity. For one thing,
> it's not legal to dispose of
> hazmat (I'm using the term loosely) in the storm
> sewers (one can imagine your
> finding yourself with an EPA citation, on top of
> everything else).
> Sanitary sewerage is pretty well controlled and
> monitored. It shouldn't be
> difficult to figure out how much is there, even at
> the treatment plant. The storm
> drains can potentially overflow anywhere upstream of
> the final discharge point.
>
> The NUKE issues aside (most of you are much more
> well versed in that arena
> than I will ever be) the legal ability of an
> Incident Commander to "create" a
> run off situation where he or she is in the process
> of saving life and limb is
> well documented and goes all the way back to the
> days of the "Old Domestic
> Preparedness Program" (AKA the 120 Cities Program).
>
> At that time (1996 or 97 time frame) the leader of
> the US Army Chemical Team
> for the DPP asked for a formal interpretation from
> EPA on the topic related
> to chemical waste run off, more specifically that
> run off that may well be
> generated in a mass DECON scenario post a chemical
> release (remember this is a
> few years out from the Tokyo Subway Sarin Incident
> in 1995) and the EPA in a
> letter that has not ever been rescinded or really
> challenged said at that time
> in a nutshell that the IC of HAZMAT incident could
> create a run off
> situation with no fear of federal liability per
> SARA and CERCLA as long as they were
> due diligent in their reporting of the run off
> situation via normal HAZMAT
> spill reporting channels. While it was aimed at
> chemical incidents at the time
> most everyone I have spoken to regarding this in
> the past 10 years has felt
> that the letter was broad based enough to cover all
> CBRNE type events.
>
> Of course they (EPA) could change their minds
> seemingly on a whim at any
> moment?
>
> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET
> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI
> LNMolino at aol.com
> 979-690-3607 (Home Office)
> 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone)
> 979-458-0795 (TEEX Office)
>
> "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude"
>
> The comments contained in this E-mail are the
> opinions of the author and the
> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for
> any person or
> organization that I am in any way whatsoever
> involved or associated with unless I
> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this
> E-mail is intended only for its
> stated recipient and may contain private and or
> confidential materials
> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed
> in the public domain by the
> original author.
>
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.5 message/rfc822
> From: Jose Julio Rozental
> <joseroze at netvision.net.il>
> To: radsafe at radlab.nl
> Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 08:22:55 +0300
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Hospital emergency response and
> RDD waste management
>
>
> About Response to emergency today there are two
> possibilities
> a) Non Malevolent intent, as error, mishap, fire,
> damage, etc - You can
> project and planning the response, you know about
> sources, scenarios,
> sources activities, every detail that responders
> must put into action.
>
> b) Malevolent intent, as RDD - In this case it is
> very complex to prepare
> the scenario.
> We, in Goiania, have to be face with many situations
> that we never found
> before in any literature about Emergency Planning
> and Preparedness, and you
> have to deal with.
>
> For this reason the last US Secretary of Energy S.
> Abraham, (bellow
> reference), said:
>
> "We know from experience with accidental releases of
> radiological sources
> that they can cause widespread panic, economic
> hardship and significant
> health concerns. Remember Brazil, in 1987. Urban
> scavengers found a medical
> teletherapy machine left in an abandoned building.
> They removed the
> radioactive source from its shielding, ruptured it
> and distributed the
> beautiful blue, glowing powder they found inside to
> their friends, neighbors
> and relatives. The powder was 137Cs. Four people
> died. More than 110 000
> people were monitored for radiation exposure at the
> city's sports stadium.
> Scores of buildings were evacuated and some were
> even demolished. Cleanup
> costs were enormous. The incident generated about
> 3500 cubic meters of
> radioactive waste. Actual fatalities were relatively
> light in the Brazil
> incident, but panic was widespread. I can only
> imagine how much worse the
> situation would have been had terrorists dispersed
> the toxic material rather
> than innocent, uninformed people."
>
http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub1165_web.pdf
> "International Conference on Promoting the Security
> of Radiological
> Materials" To Expand World Framework For Tackling
> the Problems Posed by
> "Dirty Bombs 2003, VIENNA,10-13 MARCH 2003
> REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE CONFERENCE, page 9
> THE UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF ENERGY S. Abraham
>
> At the moment I am writing a paper "Radiological
> Accident in Goiania x RDD,
> similarities and differences" to be presented in any
> future conference on
> Security and one of the topic refers to waste that
> we have to manage,
> including in the middle of the street, one case in
> Goiania, about 50m. from
> a Super Market. Can one imagines this situation? --
> To those that want to
> look this picture send me an e-mail. Let's try to
> understand better taking a
> look in the Radiological Accident in Goiania, IAEA
> publication, 1988 or in
> HP Special Issue, Volume 60, Number 1, January 1991
> - Look my paper "The
> Radiological Accident in Goiania: The initial
> remedial actions"
>
> Jose Julio Rozental
> joseroze at netvision.net.il
> Israel
>
>
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.6 message/rfc822
> From: dckosloff at firstenergycorp.com
> CC: radsafe at radlab.nl, radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl
> To: LNMolino at aol.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 08:44:37 -0500
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hospital emergency response
> and RDD waste managem ent
>
> Perhaps it is t;ime to start telling the general
> population the truth about
> the abundance of radioactive materials in the
> environment and in their own
> bodies. Like potassium 40 and carbon 14. Also it
> may be time for
> individuals (eg, authors of chemistry and
> environmental "science"
> textbooks) and organizations to be more aggressive
> in exposing the liars
> among the anti-nukes. Some (certainly not all)
> government agencies could
> even become responsible government agencies. Hey,
> it could happen.
>
> The Consumers Union did a little of this indirectly
> in its June 1991
> "Consumer Reports On Health" newsletter in an
> article called "Fear of
> Flying: Cosmic Radiation". But that was in response
> to the sale of an
> "Anti-Radiation Kit for Air Travelers". The
> article did point out that
> Americans, on average, receive about 40 mrem per
> year from food and water.
> Permission to reprint the article for non-commercial
> purposes may be
> requested from Permissions, Consumers Union, 101
> Truman Ave., YONKERS NY
> 10703-1057.
>
> In the interim it might be advisable for all
> potential decontamination
> sites to have small sealed containers of sodium-free
> salt similar to the
> salt substitute packages that are sold in grocery
> stores. These are
> generally small blue cylinders about 3 inches high
> with a diameter of about
> one inch. They are generally located on the store
> shelves next to the
> regular salt. It would be easy to show that a
> decontaminated or
> never-contaminated person showed a smaller meter
> response than some salt
> substitute intended for human consumption.
> Potassium dietary supplements
> might also work, but I don't know about those
> because I have never checked
> them with a meter.
>
> It might also be helpful if nuclear power plant
> training departments
> stopped trying to scare radiation workers with
> disinformation. For
> example, a radworker training course that I once
> attended emphasized the
> assertion that ALL of the radium dial painters who
> tongue tipped their
> brushes died prematurely from cancer.
>
> Don Kosloff
> Perry OH and Shippingport PA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> LNMolino at aol.com
>
>
> Sent by: To:
> radsafe at radlab.nl
>
> radsafe-bounces at r cc:
>
>
> adlab.nl
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hospital emergency
> response and RDD waste managem ent
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 03/02/2005 08:37
>
>
> PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <SNIP>
> many of those that "think" they are contaminated are
> going to keep thinking that even with monitoring and
> the like and that in
> and
> of itself presents a problem for the response and
> medical community.
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> The information contained in this message is
> intended only for the personal
> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named
> above. If the reader of this
> message is not the intended recipient or an agent
> responsible for
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>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.7 message/rfc822
> From: LNMolino at aol.com
> To: radsafe at radlab.nl
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 09:31:00 EST
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hospital emergency response
> and RDD waste managem ent
>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/3/2005 07:45:38 Central
> Standard Time,
> dckosloff at firstenergycorp.com writes:
>
> Perhaps it is time to start telling the general
> population the truth about
> the abundance of radioactive materials in the
> environment and in their own
> bodies.
>
> It already has been taught, in every 8th grade
> science classroom in the
> country dare I say. It's the "post" education"
> education that is given by way of
> bad media and anti-nukes etc that cause both the
> issues that you in the RAD
> industry face as well as those same issues I face in
> emergency services!
>
>
> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET
> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI
> LNMolino at aol.com
> 979-690-3607 (Home Office)
> 979-412-0890 (Cell Phone)
> 979-458-0795 (TEEX Office)
>
> "A Texan with a Jersey Attitude"
>
> The comments contained in this E-mail are the
> opinions of the author and the
> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for
> any person or
> organization that I am in any way whatsoever
> involved or associated with unless I
> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this
> E-mail is intended only for its
> stated recipient and may contain private and or
> confidential materials
> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed
> in the public domain by the
> original author.
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.8 message/rfc822
> From: Peter.Vernig at med.va.gov
> To: alstonchris at netscape.net,
> Peter.Vernig at med.va.gov, radsafe at radlab.nl
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 09:03:49 -0600
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Hospital emergency response
> and RDD waste management
>
> Chris,
>
> Alright after thinking about it I think you are
> right although I don't have
> as much angst about it going into a storm drain as
> you appear to. My
> feeling is that in the vast majority of scenarios
> you are talking a large
> volume of mildly contaminated water [rad or chem
> contamination] But because
> storm drains drain to uncontrolled areas, rivers,
> canals and such it would
> be better to have it contained. My biggest concern
> would be in areas like
> this [Denver] where we have lots of streams that are
> seasonal and dry up so
> it could flow out into a dry bed and soak in instead
> of flow on and get
> further diluted. Over flow could happen but that
> would mean lots of water
> and lots of dilution.
>
> I have some small concern that a chemical
> contaminant might interfere with
> the water treatment plant but I don't really know
> how they operate and my
> feeling is that the massive dilution should take
> care of that.
>
> So I will amend my suggestion. Put the run off in
> the sanitary sewer.
>
> Any opinions in this e-mail are solely those of the
> author, and are not
> represented as those of the VA Eastern Colorado HCS,
> the Dept. of Veterans
> Affairs, or the US Government.
>
> Peter G. Vernig, Radiation Safety Officer, MS-115,
> VA Eastern Colorado
> Health Care System, 1055 Clermont St. Denver, CO
> 80220,
> peter.vernig at med.va.gov, Phone= 303.399.8020 x2447;
> Fax = 303.393.5026,
> alternate fax, 303.393.5248
>
> "...whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is
> lovely, whatever is
> admirable, if anything is found to be excellent or
> praiseworthy, let your
> mind dwell on these things."
>
> Paul of Tarsus
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alstonchris at netscape.net
> [mailto:alstonchris at netscape.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 4:14 PM
> To: Peter.Vernig at med.va.gov; radsafe at radlab.nl
> Subject: Hospital emergency response and RDD waste
> management
>
>
> Peter
>
> Put it down the sanitary sewer *please*, not the
> storm drains, unless it's
> some kind of ultimate extremity. For one thing,
> it's not legal to dispose
> of hazmat (I'm using the term loosely) in the storm
> sewers (one can imagine
> your finding yourself with an EPA citation, on top
> of everything else).
> Sanitary sewerage is pretty well controlled and
> monitored. It shouldn't be
> difficult to figure out how much is there, even at
> the treatment plant. The
> storm drains can potentially overflow anywhere
> upstream of the final
> discharge point.
>
> As an aside, and FYI, Seattle (or maybe King
> County), about ten years ago,
> seriously contemplated requiring hospitals to inform
> them, prior to a nuc
> med pt's flushing of the toilet. I believe that
> they received some good
> counselling from the State DOH on the issue.
>
> Cheers
> cja
>
> P.S. In some countries, e.g. Canada, I think, they
> are required to hold for
> decay the effluent from, e.g., I-131 inpatients.
> Our regulatory burden in
> the USA is not always as onerous as it seems.
>
>
> I would run it
> >right into the sewer or storm drain, counting on
> massive dilution to render
> >it innocuous. What else can you do really, when
> you think about it. Most
> >hospitals are not going to have the liquid storage
> capacity. One of the VA
> >hospitals put in about a 2000 gallon (7600 l)
> holding tank, that would be
> >good for about 114 patients/deconees.
>
> >
> >
> >Any opinions in this e-mail are solely those of the
> author, and are not
> >represented as those of the VA Eastern Colorado
> HCS, the Dept. of Veterans
> >Affairs, or the US Government.
> >
> >Peter G. Vernig, Radiation Safety Officer, MS-115,
> VA Eastern Colorado
> >Health Care System, 1055 Clermont St. Denver, CO
> 80220,
> >peter.vernig at med.va.gov, Phone= 303.399.8020 x2447;
> Fax = 303.393.5026,
> >alternate fax, 303.393.5248
> >
> >"...whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever
> is lovely, whatever is
> >admirable, if anything is found to be excellent or
> praiseworthy, let your
> >mind dwell on these things."
> >
> >Paul of Tarsus
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl]On
> >Behalf Of Bradt, Clayton
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 12:27 PM
> >To: Radsafe (radsafe at radlab.nl)
> >Subject: FW: [ RadSafe ] Hospital emergency
> response and RDD waste
> >managem ent
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Any realistic solution to the problem of rad waste
> following an RDD event
> >would be so hateful to the eco-crazies that it
> would be impossible for any
> >government agency to ever make such a plan public
> before the fact. I am
> >unaware of anyone actually working on such a plan.
> I suspect that any
> >decisions on what to do about rad waste will be
> made ad hoc during the
> >crisis when there will be no time for opponents to
> get organized against
> >them.
> >
> >Clayton J. Bradt, CHP
> >Principal Radiophysicist
> >NYS Dept. of Labor
> >phone: (518) 457 1202
> >fax: (518) 485 7406
> >e-mail: clayton.bradt at labor.state.ny.us
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Andrew Lukban [mailto:ALukban at chpnet.org]
> >Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 5:20 PM
> >To: radsafe at radlab.nl
> >Subject: [ RadSafe ] Hospital emergency response
> and RDD waste management
> >
> >
> >I am the RSO in a hospital in New York City. Our
> hospital Emergency
> >Management Committee has been charged with planning
> a procedure of
> >response to emergency situations associated with
> radiation dispersal
> >devices (RDD's or "dirty bombs".) It is rumored
> that the next round of
> >city-wide table-top exercises for emergency
> preparedness are to involve
> >RDD scenarios. There are many things invloved with
> such a scenario which
> >range from detection (portal monitors), isotope
> identification (handheld
> >MCA), determination of internal decontamination
> (swab nostrils and mouth
> >and count), actual decontamination (undress,
> shower), calculation of
> >scheduled quantities in sewage from mass showering
> (close my eyes),
> >treatment (should be teh doc's job), dose
> calculations (call REAC/TS)
> >and... waste management (?).
>
=== message truncated ===
> ATTACHMENT part 3.9 message/rfc822
> From: Efforrer at aol.com
> To: radsafe at radlab.nl
> Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:09:29 -0500
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] California Man Sets Off Nuclear
> Alert Detector
>
> ESCONDIDO, Calif. (AP) - A man who recently had
> received radiation treatment for a medical condition
> set off a nuclear alert detector on a fire engine,
> prompting police to close down a roadway in
> Escondido while authorities searched for a nuclear
> weapon.
>
> The Rancho Santa Fe Fire Protection District engine
> crew's radiation monitor sounded Tuesday when the
> man and his friend walked past the crew on their way
> to fill a gas can.
>
> The Nuke Alert monitor sounded again as the men
> walked back to their vehicle.
>
> Firefighters notified the San Diego County Sheriff's
> Department after they drove by the men's vehicle and
> the monitor sounded a third time.
>
> Sheriff's deputies pulled over the driver and
> detained him and his passenger for about one hour
> while they confirmed that the man was not carrying a
> nuclear weapon and that he had received radiation
> treatment, according to Sgt. Robert Healey.
>
> The man was described as a Valley Center resident in
> his late 40s or early 50s. His name and medical
> condition were not released.
>
> The radiation monitor was purchased with Homeland
> Defense Department grant money and is used 24 hours
> a day on each fire truck in the Rancho Santa Fe Fire
> Protection District, according to Capt. Dale Mosby.
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.10 message/rfc822
> From: "Sandy Perle" <sandyfl at earthlink.net>
> To: Efforrer at aol.com, radsafe at radlab.nl
> Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:26:20 -0800
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] California Man Sets Off
> Nuclear Alert Detector
>
> This is the future ... Why TRAINING is so critical!
> Just think
> what's going to happen when every Tom, Dick and
> Harry has a radiation
> detector!!!!
>
> -------------------------------------
> Sandy Perle
> Senior Vice President, Technical Operations
> Global Dosimetry Solutions, Inc.
> 2652 McGaw Avenue
> Irvine, CA 92614
>
> Tel: (949) 296-2306 / (888) 437-1714 Extension 2306
> Fax:(949) 296-1902
>
> E-Mail: sperle at dosimetry.com
> E-Mail: sandyfl at earthlink.net
>
> Global Dosimetry Website: http://www.dosimetry.com/
> Personal Website: http://sandy-travels.com/
>
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.11 message/rfc822
> From: mpatterson at canberra.com
> CC: radsafe at radlab.nl, radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl
> To: Jose Julio Rozental <joseroze at netvision.net.il>
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 10:40:30 -0500
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hospital emergency response
> and RDD waste management
>
> Jose,
>
> I have read some of your papers. I look forward to
> seeing your next
> paper.
>
> Your experiences and the current concerns over the
> use of radioactive
> materials by terrorist have caused me to spend a
> little time thinking
> about how to respond to such an event. I have
> thought some about the
> incident or accident contamination issues for the
> last year or so. I
> believe that public panic will be one of the biggest
> issues that
> responders including people at hospitals will have
> to deal with. I also
> believe, as many others do, that only a fraction of
> those in the incident
> area will actually be contaminated. Unfortunately
> all those in the area
> will need to be screened in order to find the
> contaminated individuals,
> prevent the unnecessary spread of contamination and
> calm those that are
> not contaminated.
>
> Because of my work, I know that there are many
> monitoring and measurement
> tools that can help. These measurement systems were
> developed for and are
> currently in use by the nuclear industry. I work
> for Canberra and we
> manufacture systems to quickly screen people for
> both external and
> internal contamination. We also make handhelds,
> portals, and waste
> systems. I hope this is not too commercial. It is
> not my intent to use
> this site to advertise our products. I just thought
> that in this case
> perhaps I could provide some helpful information to
> the group. I am
> referencing our products because those are the ones
> that I know most
> about.
>
> Our Argos Whole Body Contamination Monitors can
> detect external alpha,
> beta and gamma contamination in only a matter of
> seconds. Our FASTSCAN
> and ACCUSCAN Bed systems can detect internal
> contamination in the lungs,
> thyroid, GI Tract or Whole body in only a few
> minutes.
>
> Here are my ideas for screening:
>
> 1. Screen for external contamination using a whole
> body contamination
> monitor.
>
> I think you'd find lots of people that are not
> contaminated. These people
> could be treated for medical issues as needed and
> many could be sent home.
> Note , the systems I am suggesting even tells
> people that they are not
> contaminated.
>
> If contamination is found, this system will provide
> an indication of its
> location. If the contamination is only on the shoes
> or pants, then you
> could consider taking those articles of clothing.
> If the shoes are made
> of leather or some non-permeable material and the
> contamination is only on
> the shoes, then you might even try a quick wipe and
> retest of the shoes
> with a hand held contamination monitor or just put
> the person back on the
> WBM. Then just dispose of the wipes in the
> contaminated trash.
>
> If clothing is contaminated you will probably need
> to remove it and take
> possession of it. The good news is that clothing is
> not heavy and
> compacts. This will however mean that you need to
> give that person
> something to wear. If they are being admitted no
> problem give them a
> gown. If you are going to discharge them then
> perhaps you'd be better off
> to give them scrubs or a paper jumpsuit. There are
> even laundry monitors
> and companies that clean radioactive clothing. Once
> things settle down
> there would be options for dealing with clothing.
> There are also standard
> systems for counting waste materials.
>
> If contamination is indicated in the face then nasal
> and mouth swabs
> should be taken. If its in the hair, then you
> probably need to wash it,
> unless injuries prevent washing. In this case you
> may be shaving the hair
> anyway so then the hair becomes waste, possibly
> biological, chemical and
> radiological.
>
> If facial contamination is found and nasal or mouth
> swabs confirm possible
> internal contamination then you need to check for
> internal contamination.
>
> 2. Internal Contamination Screening using a
> spectroscopy based whole body
> counting system.
>
> If the person is able to stand up then our FASTSCAN
> can be used and with a
> simple 1 minute count you can detect, identify and
> quantify even very
> small amounts of radioactive material inside the
> human body. If you don't
> find any you can show the report to the person being
> monitored so they
> won't be afraid of the radiation and other
> appropriate treatments can be
> dispensed as appropriate. If you do find something,
> you know what it is
> and how much is there. Now you can make informed
> decisions about
> chelating treatments as appropriate. If you are
> concerned about people
> being ambulatory then perhaps the ACCUSCAN Bed
> System would be more
> appropriate. With this system you need a little
> more counting time to
> achieve reasonable detection limits, the nuclear
> industry typically uses
> something in the 5 to 8 minute range for counting
> times.
>
> These are just some thoughts about how we might cope
> with potential mass
> contamination issues. Hopefully they can help
> people begin to formulate
> complete solutions for their needs.
>
> Melissa Patterson
> In Vivo Systems Product Manager
> Canberra Industries
>
>
>
>
>
> Jose Julio Rozental <joseroze at netvision.net.il>
> Sent by: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl
> 03/03/2005 12:22 AM
>
> To: radsafe at radlab.nl
> cc:
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Hospital
> emergency response and RDD waste management
>
>
>
>
>
>
> About Response to emergency today there are two
> possibilities
> a) Non Malevolent intent, as error, mishap, fire,
> damage, etc - You can
> project and planning the response, you know about
> sources, scenarios,
> sources activities, every detail that responders
> must put into action.
>
> b) Malevolent intent, as RDD - In this case it is
> very complex to prepare
> the scenario.
> We, in Goiania, have to be face with many situations
> that we never found
> before in any literature about Emergency Planning
> and Preparedness, and
> you
> have to deal with.
>
> For this reason the last US Secretary of Energy S.
> Abraham, (bellow
> reference), said:
>
> "We know from experience with accidental releases of
> radiological sources
>
=== message truncated ===>
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