[ RadSafe ] Do better than John Snow's Work. Medical Ethics?

[Syd H. Levine]

Boy is that a twisted take on the issue.  The skeptics in this case are the 
folks who doubt the almost religious LNT construct.  The notion that the 
anti-nukes are the skeptics is humorous indeed.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Jacobus" <crispy_bird at yahoo.com>
To: "howard long" <hflong at pacbell.net>; "Gerald Nicholls" 
<Gerald.Nicholls at dep.state.nj.us>; <radsafe at radlab.nl>; <rad-sci-1 at wpi.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Do better than John Snow's Work. Medical Ethics?


>I guess the thing that has always bothered me is that
> there is no control matching between the general
> population and the irradiated apartment dwellers.
> Even in this country you see differences in cancer
> distributions between more and less densely populated
> areas, age, sex, etc.  Is it possible most apartment
> dwellers are under 50, which would bias the data?
>
> The numbers seem fast and loose.  Of course, being
> skeptical is not permitted.  You must accept whatever
> is fed to you.
>
> --- howard long <hflong at pacbell.net> wrote:
>> Thank you for this serious response to my tongue in
>> cheek proposal.
>> It deserves a better answer than I can give, so I am
>> including the rad-sci list in hopes that someone
>> like Muckerheide will point out the retrospective
>> studies already done.
>>
>> I do fear that lawsuit for imaginary damage is the
>> main obstacle to a properly controlled study.
>>
>> Howard Long
>>
>> Gerald Nicholls <Gerald.Nicholls at dep.state.nj.us>
>> wrote:
>> Howard Long wrote:
>>
>> "The Taiwan "Study" (J Am Phys & Surg 9:1, pp6-11)
>> is at least as
>> impressive as was John Snow's observation of more
>> disease on one side of
>> a London street than the other having a different
>> water supply.This at
>> least calls for a test, "taking off the pump
>> handle", exposing another
>> population to 0.4 Sv over 10 years, to reproduce
>> very low cancer and
>> fetal abnormality rates..
>>
>> Are ambulance chasers like the TV lawyers soliciting
>> anyone with or
>> without trouble who ever was near a brake lining
>> (asbestos), had heart
>> trouble (aspirin family), etc, ready to block this
>> science?"
>>
>> It seems to me that Snow's work on the spread of
>> cholera in 19th
>> century London is far more scientifically impressive
>> than the Taiwan
>> study. Snow proposed that cholera was transmitted by
>> contaminated water
>> in 1849 (in conflict with the generally then held
>> idea of inhalation of
>> vapors) and was able to prove his theory in 1854
>> during a particularly
>> tragic outbreak of the disease. The authors of the
>> Taiwan study have
>> documented their observations and pointed out the
>> need for further
>> study, but not proved their case. One of
>> recommendations is to design
>> future experiments so that hormetic effects can be
>> studied.
>>
>> You suggest a study in which you would give a
>> population 0.4 Sv over 10
>> years. If the population exposed was 10,000, so as
>> to achieve the 4,000
>> person Sv population dose estimated in the Taiwan
>> study, and you had
>> 10,000 matched controls, the researchers would have
>> to track the health
>> and radiation doses to 20,000 people over 10 years,
>> a difficult and
>> expensive proposition. And, you don't need to
>> envision ambulance
>> chasers and the like seeking to block this
>> "science," you just have to
>> look as far as you nearest review board and its
>> resident medical
>> ethicists.
>>
>> Doing the study retrospectively using available
>> health and demographic
>> data might be possible. It would also avoid the
>> major ethical pitfalls,
>> probably cost less and the results would likely be
>> available in less
>> than 10 years.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Gerald P. Nicholls
>> NJ Dept. of Environmental Protection
>> 609-633-7964
>> gerald.nicholl at dep.state.nj.us
>> _______________________________________________
>> You are currently subscribed to the radsafe mailing
>> list
>> radsafe at radlab.nl
>>
>> For information on how to subscribe/unsubscribe and
>> other settings visit:
>> http://radlab.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/radsafe
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> You are currently subscribed to the radsafe mailing
>> list
>> radsafe at radlab.nl
>>
>> For information on how to subscribe/unsubscribe and
>> other settings visit:
>> http://radlab.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/radsafe
>>
>
> +++++++++++++++++++
> "A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
> enough people to make it worth the effort." Herm Albright
>
> -- John
> John Jacobus, MS
> Certified Health Physicist
> e-mail:  crispy_bird at yahoo.com
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Make Yahoo! your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the radsafe mailing list
> radsafe at radlab.nl
>
> For information on how to subscribe/unsubscribe and other settings visit:
> http://radlab.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/radsafe
>