AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] cancer is the result of defective tissue/immunecontrol
crispy_bird at yahoo.com
Wed Jul 5 14:27:01 CDT 2006
Thanks for the reply. I thought that the theory for
the loss of bone cells and mass due to microgravity
and the lack of stress on the skeleton. I was under
the impression that the problem with immunocompetence
was also due a lack of "stresses," e.g., a lack of
antigens and germs.
--- Rainer.Facius at dlr.de wrote:
> "By the way, why do you think microgravity causes
> immuncompetency? Certainly not the lack of
> radiation. How about the decalcification?"
> Dear John:
> The primary cause of impaired immunocompetence under
> prolonged weightlessness is supposed to be a
> systemic response to internal fluid shifts and
> associated (after an adaptation period persistent)
> changes of the humoral status, salt balance, ... .
> Mechanisms are still mostly hypothetical, e.g.
> regarding kidney involvement, as are putative
> receptors and signal chains already on a cellular
> level. Bone metabolism to my knowledge has not yet
> been causally associated with reduced
> Kind regards, Rainer
> Von: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com]
> Gesendet: Fr 30.06.2006 20:10
> An: Facius, Rainer; radsafe at radlab.nl
> Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] cancer is the result of
> defective tissue/immunecontrol
> I do know what I should reconsider. That the immune
> system does not recognize the tumor as foreign?
> It is apparent that tumors and cancers are
> of old age. One idea is that the cells that make up
> the tumor change do not atrophy as they should, so
> immune system still recognizes the tumors as self.
> The alternative is the immune system is weakened and
> cannot attack the tumor. Of course, in a young
> person, the immune system should be "strong," but
> still the tumor develops. Interesting question,
> you think? COuld it be that there may be more than
> one mechanisms?
> I suggest you ask your friend what he means. I
> remind you that the Kim paper really only considers
> one type on tumor in a non-human model. It may not
> represent the results in other murine tumors, or in
> humans. Biology is not like physics. One equation
> may not fit all cases.
> By the way, why do you think microgravity causes
> immuncompetency? Certainly not the lack of
> How about the decalcification?
> --- Rainer.Facius at dlr.de wrote:
> > John:
> > This very Thursday I was discussing with the head
> > our Institute - a medical Professor holding also
> > chair of Aerospace Medicine of our very
> > University RWTH Aachen - the curriculum for a new
> > Course on Space Medicine in our institute.
> > Among the topics in physiology, the altered
> > immunocompetence in microgravity was assigned to
> > extra lecture. Without thinking about my post I
> > his attention to the fact that - according to
> > recently emerging empirical evidence - such
> > alterations might well affect seriously our space
> > radiation cancer risk estimates, e.g. for planned
> > missions to Mars if indeed - as I surmised -
> > tumourigenesis were significantly controlled
> > by the immune system. In response he looked at me
> > with an expression of astonishment and (in
> > said:
> > "Well, this is really an old hat!"
> > In other words, for him - the Professor of
> > - these exciting observations by Kim et al.
> > just an animal-experimental corroboration of
> > of fact which for man are already established.
> > I in turn was surprised seeing him consider this
> > a matter of course and was not prepared to argue
> > against it. I certainly will pick up this topic on
> > the next occasion with him and you as well might
> > wish to reconsider it.
> > Kind regards, Rainer
> > Dr. Rainer Facius
> > German Aerospace Center
> > Institute of Aerospace Medicine
> > Linder Hoehe
> > 51147 Koeln
> > GERMANY
> > Voice: +49 2203 601 3147 or 3150
> > FAX: +49 2203 61970
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl
> > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag von
> > John Jacobus
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. Juni 2006 23:20
> > An: Facius, Rainer; radsafe at radlab.nl
> > Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] cancer is the result of
> > defective tissue/immunecontrol
> > Rainer,
> > As you note, at least in murine gastrointestinal
> > cancer (sic) this is true. However, I do not
> > you can say this about other cancers. I guess you
> > could, but do you think all cancers are due to
> > defective tissue/immune control? It is a question
> > of recognition of "self," e.g., cancers are
> > recognized as normal tissues, which they are to
> > immune system.
> "You get a lot more authority when the workforce
> doesn't think it's amateur hour on the top floor."
> GEN. MICHAEL V. HAYDEN, President Bush's nominee for
> C.I.A. director.
> -- John
> John Jacobus, MS
> Certified Health Physicist
> e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com
> Do You Yahoo!?
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"You get a lot more authority when the workforce doesn't think it's amateur hour on the top floor."
GEN. MICHAEL V. HAYDEN, President Bush's nominee for C.I.A. director.
John Jacobus, MS
Certified Health Physicist
e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com
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