AW: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] In utero dose "Alara Does Work" ?!!

[John Jacobus]

For what it is worth, the engine compartment of
nuclear powered ship was quite a different environment
from the oil-driven plant in the ship I was based on. 
The job title may care the same set of qualifications,
training and pay, but they do not carry over to
working in a ship build in the 1960 and 1970 to a
newly "minted" nuclear power ship.  

The support ships I was on were built in 1944 and
1945.  

--- Rainer.Facius at dlr.de wrote:

> Floyd:
> 
> Of course, socio-economic status is a known and
> influential (sometimes very much so) confounder for
> all epidemiological health studies. 
> 
> Given however that in all groups of workers the
> individuals were matched also with respect to their
> "Job Titles" and that these are probably a fair
> surrogate for their socio-economic status, I would
> ask for more specific information before pursuing
> that idea further.
> 
> Best regards, Rainer
> 
> Dr. Rainer Facius
> German Aerospace Center
> Institute of Aerospace Medicine
> Linder Hoehe
> 51147 Koeln
> GERMANY
> Voice: +49 2203 601 3147 or 3150
> FAX:   +49 2203 61970
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Flanigan, Floyd
> [mailto:Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com] 
> Gesendet: Montag, 3. Juli 2006 16:43
> An: Bernard Cohen; Facius, Rainer
> Cc: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us; radsafe at radlab.nl
> Betreff: RE: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] In utero dose
> "Alara Does Work" ?!!
> 
> I have a question on this one. I apologize for not
> weighing in sooner but I was on vacation for a while
> there and do not check my email while on sabbatical.
> What other common denominators were taken into
> account when weighing this data? I realize these
> data lend themselves to support of hormesis, but I
> would only want support which is true and clear. Is
> there an effect created by the socio-economic status
> afforded shipyard workers due to the level of
> compensation they received on ratio against the
> average income/level of health care available to the
> average worker in the area over that particular time
> line? I do not have these data so I am asking. The
> ex-shipyard workers I have acquaintance with all say
> they were very well paid and had great health care
> benefits. I would very much like to attribute their
> collective good health and what appears to be a two
> standard deviation improvement, to hormesis, but in
> all fairness, I wonder if we have eliminated all
> other possible contributors.
> 
> Floyd W. Flanigan B.S.Nuc.H.P.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of
> Bernard Cohen
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 9:41 AM
> To: Rainer.Facius at dlr.de
> Cc: Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us; radsafe at radlab.nl
> Subject: Re: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] In utero dose
> "Alara Does Work" ?!!
> 
>  From Matanoski, GM (1991) Health effect of low
> level radiation in shipyard workers, Final report.
> Report No. DOE DE-AC02-79 EV10095; U.S. 
> Dept. of Energy : Comparing Tables 3.6B and 3.6D, t
> he cancer mortality rate for the exposed was only
> 85% of that for the unexposed, a difference of
> nearly two standard deviations
> 
> 
> Rainer.Facius at dlr.de wrote:
> 
> >Dear Jim,
> >
> > 
> >
> >in the data published in Matanoski's final report I
> cannot detect a
> clear cut 'protective' association of occupational
> radiation exposure with cancer(!) mortality. If you
> have not received my PDF file
> (MatanoskiTable3_6excerpts.pdf) with the graphic
> representation of these data I can send them once
> more so that you can point me where to look at in
> these data.
> >
> > 
> >
> >Kind regards, Rainer
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >Von: Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)
> [mailto:Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us]
> >Gesendet: Sa 01.07.2006 23:56
> >An: Facius, Rainer; eic at shaw.ca; radsafe at radlab.nl
> >Betreff: RE: AW: [ RadSafe ] In utero dose "Alara
> Does Work" ?!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Hi Rainer,
> >
> >While I haven't followed this thread in detail, did
> you mean to say
> that the protective effect of radiation did NOT
> effect cancer mortaity?
> IIRC, the study results show statistically
> significant lower cancer mortality.
> >
> >Regards, Jim
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From:   radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of
> Rainer.Facius at dlr.de
> >Sent:   Sat 7/1/2006 4:06 PM
> >To:     eic at shaw.ca; radsafe at radlab.nl
> >Cc:    
> >Subject:        AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] In utero dose
> "Alara Does Work" ?!!
> >
> >Kai:
> >
> >This appears to me as an argument worth studying
> further although I am
> not in a position to do so. Ventilation and dust
> control measures, however, could not have made a
> difference given the identical mortality (within the
> experimental uncertainty) from cancers of the
> respiratory system.
> >
> >Furthermore, the protective effect of radiation
> exposure - if indeed it
> is a causal relation - did not materialize in cancer
> mortality but only in mortality from
> non-malignancies!
> >
> >Best regards, Rainer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >Von: Kai Kaletsch [mailto:eic at shaw.ca]
> >Gesendet: Sa 01.07.2006 19:40
> >An: Facius, Rainer; radsafe at radlab.nl
> >Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] In utero dose "Alara
> Does Work" ?!!
> >
> >
> >
> >Rainer wrote: "other known potent cancerogenic
> agents were identified
> as
> >operating at these workplaces!"
> >
> >Is it possible that work practices, hygiene,
> personal protective
> equipment
> >etc. that was mandated as part of a radiation
> protection program also 
> >protected against the other carcinogens, while the
> control group had no 
> >protection?
> >
> >Ventilation and dust control measures that we use
> in uranium mines to
> limit
> >radon and radioactive dust exposures will also help
> in reducing silica
> and
> >diesel exposures.
> >
> >Best Regards,
> >Kai
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <Rainer.Facius at dlr.de>
> >To: <crispy_bird at yahoo.com>; <hflong at pacbell.net>;
> <jjcohen at prodigy.net>;
> ><mike.bohan at yale.edu>; <radsafe at radlab.nl>
> >Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 11:05 AM
> >Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] In utero dose "Alara
> Does Work" ?!!
> >
> >
> >"The (Navy Shipyard Worker Study) is characterized
> by an unhealthy
> control
> >group, making it one of the very few studies in
> occupational
> 
=== message truncated ===


+++++++++++++++++++
"You get a lot more authority when the workforce doesn't think it's amateur hour on the top floor."
GEN. MICHAEL V. HAYDEN, President Bush's nominee for C.I.A. director.

-- John
John Jacobus, MS
Certified Health Physicist
e-mail:  crispy_bird at yahoo.com

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