[ RadSafe ] RE: uranium in the gulf war

Carlos Billings billingsauto at gmail.com
Sat Jun 24 18:53:00 CDT 2006

James, are you an activist or a vet-why do you do this?

How do you know that the birth defects come from uranium and not stuff
like the nerve gas and mustard gas?



On 6/24/06, James Salsman <james at bovik.org> wrote:
> Dear Colonel Daxon:
> I apologize for not completely representing your comments.
> I did not understand some of them because they were so brief.
> What part of my message to Carlos Billings is incorrect?
> In particular, do you disagree with any of the following
> points?  I believe these all are well-supported, and as-yet
> undisputed facts:
> 1.  Uranium combustion from munitions fires such as those
> from 30mm DU rounds occurs above 2500 Kelvin and directly
> produces uranium dioxide (UO2) and trioxide (UO3) gas.
> 2.  Much of both of the uranium oxide gases condense into
> particulate aerosol and dust solids.
> 3.  When UO3 gas condenses, it decomposes into U3O8, which
> comprises 75% of solid uranium combustion product.  (UO2
> particulates comprise the remainder.)
> 4.  Some of the UO3 gas escapes into the air, before it can
> condense with other UO3 molecules to form U3O8.
> 5.  Some of the UO3 plates out on surfaces, e.g., as
> detected in the swabs collected by Salbu et al. (2005).
> 6.  Nobody has ever measured the gas products of uranium
> combustion.  So far, only the solid combustion products have
> been measured.
> 7.  UO3 gas inhalation and U3O8 particulate inhalation will
> both lead to uranyl ion absorption in the bloodstream.
> 8.  Uranyl absorption from UO3 gas inhalation is immediate,
> while absorption from U3O8 particles is much slower, because
> U3O8 is partially soluble and takes months for half of it to
> dissolve in the lungs.
> 9.  The particulate aerosols diffuse through the air at a
> different rate than UO3 gas.  Therefore, UO3 gas exposure
> will not always occur simultaneously with particulate oxide
> exposure.
> 10.  Uranyl ions absorbed by cells from the bloodstream
> soon become undetectable in the urine, as renal elimination
> occurrs with a half-time of less than two weeks.
> 11.  Since UO3 gas may be encountered without particulates,
> urine isotope ratio studies which depend on detecting
> uranium from slowly dissolving uranium oxide particles do
> not necessarily indicate uranium combustion product
> inhalation exposure, or the extent of uranyl poisoning.
> 12.  The toxicological profile of uranyl poisoning is
> dependent on elimination effects, such that a small dose
> occurring quickly (such as from UO3 gas) will have a
> different physiological effect than from a larger dose
> occurring over a longer a period of time (such as from U3O8
> particle dissolution in the lungs.)
> 13.  All uranyl poisoning is genotoxic and teratogenic,
> increasing the probability of chromosome aberrations in
> white blood cells and birth defects in children.
> 14.  Karyotyping measurements of chromosome aberrations will
> proportionally reflect uranyl exposure, in addition to other
> genetic damage.
> 15.  Empirical measurement of the amount of UO3 gas produced
> by uranium combustion is necessary for determining the proper
> medical response to uranium combustion product exposure.
> For those items with which you do disagree, please let me know
> why.  Based on the content of your earlier messages, where
> exactly we disagree is currently a mystery to me.  Thank you.
> Sincerely,
> James Salsman
> > Unfortunately Mr. Salsman did not relate the main thrust of my comments and
> > Dr. Alexander's comments concerning UO3.  I do not agree that UO3 is an
> > issue for reasons that I have already discussed.  DoD did look for and found
> > trace amounts of UO3 as expected.  I have read the references quoted below
> > and they support my conclusions and the findings in the DoD Capstone report.
> >
> > The message conveyed by the remainder of Mr. Salzman's post is incorrect and
> > at odds with what we know about uranium and depleted uranium.  This subject
> > has been studied since the late 1940's.
> >
> > If your friend has concerns about his exposure, the Department of Veterans
> > Affairs and the Department of Defense have programs that can provide
> > information and assistance.  I helped put them together.
> >
> > v/r
> >
> > Eric Daxon, PhD, CHP
> > Colonel, USA(Ret)
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: uranium in the gulf war
> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:57:28 -0700
> From: James Salsman <james at readsay.com>
> To: Carlos Billings <billingsauto at gmail.com>
> CC: radsafe at radlab.nl,  alexandc at battelle.org,  edaxon at satx.rr.com
> References: <e9f470380606230059q6c199f31ie5a6b3b02b4c5c at mail.gmail.com>
> Carlos,
> Thank you for your questions.  What happened to your vet friend?
> All of the combustion products of depleted uranium munitions are
> toxic, including both the uranium dioxide (UO2, which is 25% of
> the aerosol particles produced -- technically not "gas"), and
> more so the triuranium octaoxide (U3O8, 75% of the particles
> produced) because the U3O8 is more soluble.
> I have asked Dr. Alexander and Colonel Daxon about whether there
> is also gas vapor produced.  I think they agree that there must
> be uranium trioxide (UO3, or "uranyl oxide") gas produced from
> the combustion, which condenses to form the U3O8.  The question
> is how much of it remains uncondensed in the air, and for how long.
> There are a reasons to believe that substantial amounts do for a
> while:  Firstly, U3O8 is too large of a molecule to be produced
> directly from a uranium fire, which takes place at a temperature
> of over 2500 Kelvin.  Since it comes from UO3 gas condensation and
> decomposition, some of the UO3 gas must escape before it can
> condense with other UO3 molecules, and remain isolated in the air.
> Also, there is some direct evidence of UO3 film condensation, as
> opposed to particulate condensation which forms U3O8:
>    http://www.bovik.org/du/Salbu-uranyl-detected.pdf
> Please see also:
>    http://www.bovik.org/du/Alexander2005.pdf
>    http://www.bovik.org/du/Wilson61.pdf
> However, nobody in the government, or anyone responsible for the
> health aspects of DU munitions has ever measured the combustion
> products of uranium for their gas products.  This is something of
> a sore spot with me, because I think it represents some pretty
> serious negligence.  If uranium fires do produce UO3 gas, then
> the people treating exposure to the fumes need to know, because
> unlike aerosol particles of U3O8 or UO2, UO3 gas goes directly
> into the bloodstream if inhaled.  That means it has a different
> toxicological profile.  As far as I can tell, so far no medical
> research has even explored this fact.  Because I have spoken out
> against those I feel are responsible, my posts to the radsafe
> list are now moderated, unlike most other people's.  For more
> information:
>    http://www.bovik.org/du/Sutton04.pdf
>    http://www.bovik.org/du/Stradling2000.pdf
> Inhaling any kind of soluble uranium, such as U3O8 or UO3, can
> cause uranium accumulation in gonocytes, which lead to birth
> defects.  The best source for information about this is:
>    http://www.ehjournal.net/content/4/1/17
> There is some pretty convincing evidence that the birth defect
> rates for Gulf War veterans kids has been sharply increasing
> over time.  The Birth and Infant Health Registry at the Naval
> Health Research Center used to release statistics about this,
> but 2000 was the last year they actually did after a sharp
> uptrend in the congenital malformation rate.  See:
> http://www.annalsofepidemiology.org/article/PIIS1047279701002459/abstract
> I have no idea how much uranium the various troops in different
> locations were exposed to.  I think the idea of using urine tests
> to study isotope ratios, which is currently popular, is not a
> good idea, because if some of the exposure was from gas instead
> of particles, that gas will not remain partially undissolved in
> the lungs like the particles do and so it won't show up as much
> in urine many years later.  I recommend that anyone wanting to
> know their exposure to birth defect problems get a "karyotyping"
> test, such as is described in this paper and slides:
>    http://www.bovik.org/du/chromosome-abberations.pdf
>    http://www.bovik.org/du/chromosome-abberations.ppt
> Most of the therapies which work to alleviate uranium exposure
> are really only effective if applied a short time after the
> exposure occurs.  After uranium is absorbed from the blood to
> the organs and tissues, there isn't much that can be done.  I
> recommend these articles on related topics:
>    http://vitw.org/archives/405
>    http://www.cadu.org.uk/news/17.htm#icbuw
>    http://www.factsofwny.org/buff12162004.htm
>    http://villagevoice.com/news/0525,lombardi,65154,5.html
> P.S. Here is the most recent medical research of which I am aware:
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16679544
> Sincerely,
> James Salsman
> Carlos Billings wrote:
>  > A good friend of mine is vet who has some real problems, and some
> questions
>  >
>  > I've been looking the May archive of this radsafe at radlab.nl emailing
>  > list, on the subject "
>  > [ RadSafe ] [Fwd: RE: uranium combustion produces how much     UO3(g)?]"
>  >
>  > I want to know:  What gas, comes from burning uranium,  what does it
>  > do, does it cause birth defect problms,
>  > and how much was the 1st Infantry exposed to from Hafar Al Basin,
>  > Saudi Arabia to Safwan, Iraq to Kuwait City exposed to, and what can
>  > be done about it if they were?
>  >
>  > I'm a subscriber to the email list now, so you can reply to me or you
>  > can reply to this email list
>  >
>  > Thank you!
>  >
>  >
>  > Carlos

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