[ RadSafe ] Insult? I don't think so.

Mon Mar 13 09:34:28 CST 2006

Dear Sandra:

I find lots of interesting reading to occupy my time. But most of it is not to found on radsafe, thankfully, because it has no place here. Certainly, this goes also for insults, gross generalizations and false statements (ascribing immorality and a lack of professionalism, "easy" killing, etc., to military personnel). 

I support free speech and free speech necessarily includes fiction.  Fact, not fiction, is the substance worthy of debate on radsafe. Unnecessary "facts" should be left out of the discussion. That goes doubly so for someone's "feelings" or "opinions" on a subject or towards a person and ditto for one's political inclinations. Please spare the bandwidth; this forum concerns radiological and related technical matters. 

While radsafe graciously supports non-experts in their dealings with radiological subjects, this is not tantamount to a "carte blanche" for non-experts and non-technical authorities (in radiological matters) to spout rhetoric on subjects beyond their area(s) of expertise.

That is, relatively speaking, what I think.

Grant Nixon, Ph.D., P.Phys.
Radiation Physicist
MDS Nordion

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of sandrabenge at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:29 AM
To: radsafe at radlab.nl
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Insult? I don't think so. 

Group-- Just because you don't like what James says doesn't mean his wrong
or misinformed.  I find his words interesting to read.  Just because someone
does not agree with you does not mean that they should be taken out of the
group. You know everyone has a butt and an opinion.  Why not consider some
introspection on your own part to figure out why you are so angered by his
thoughts.

I am not a professional in the radiation field or related fields but I am
here to learn and to listen.  I find diversity of thought something I look
forward to.  What if what he is saying is the truth?  Truth that won't be
given to the general population --much like agent orange in Vietnam-- for
years, decades while victims die or live with what has been done to them by
our government?

How "easy" is it to drop a bomb, never looking into the eyes of the person
you kill or the eyes of the person's life and family you have changed
forever.  Some people have no problem killing people in person either, but
most do and it is that aspect of humanity that I hope that will catch up
with people who are dropping the bombs.  Saying NO to your superiors and
getting other to mutiny against dropping bombs is a good thing.  Talking
about it helps-- gets the word out.  No one really knows if DU is a factor
or not.. I bet is that it is... and the gov't is silencing the people who
speak out about it.. So let people talk about what they feel they know is
relative.  You are not the absolute authority on the truth.

I think that people should talk freely about how they feel and what they
believe they know.  Everything is relative.. many aspects of war are never
discussed, but that does not make the reality for others disappear.
Radiation has been used for many reasons by our gov't whether you want to
acknowledge it or not.  Being angry does not change the need for all views
to be considered.

-- Sandra

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jean-Francois, Stephane" <stephane_jeanfrancois at merck.com>
To: "radsafelist" <radsafe at radlab.nl>
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 8:50 AM
Subject: RE : [ RadSafe ] Insult

Mr. Salsman,

Provocation is never a good tool to carry out your ideas and to convince
people. It is a good tool for TV shows, movies and other public activities
but not on a professionnal list.

And what I have read was indeed provocation. Instead of sending your
accusations directly to the persons concerned, you choose to share them to
this group. Many of us, and I include myself, were ready to hear your ideas
and even respect your opinion on DU, windmills or any other topics for that
matter, as long as they are brought in a a civil discussion. But personnal
attacks based on opinion are not welcomed on this list. I would suggest, to
cool the game here, to present your apologies to the concerned individuals.

Funny, I just had this same discussion this week with my 4 year old
daugther...

Stéphane Jean-François, Eng., CHP
Manager, Environmental and Health Physics services
Merck Frosst Canada
514-428-8695
514-428-8670
stephane_jeanfrancois at merck.com
www.merckfrosst.com

-----Message d'origine-----
De : radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] De la part
de Roger Helbig
Envoyé : Friday, March 03, 2006 4:27 AM
À : radsafelist
Objet : Re: [ RadSafe ] Insult

Salsman has over abused his privilege to taunt your profession; isn't it
time that he is just removed from the list.  I find it really abominable
that he is posting these insults to the DU list on Yahoo Groups which is run
by the Military Toxics Project, which began as a group of people concerned
that bases that were closed were properly cleaned up and has strayed into a
by invitation only list populated by extremists which make Salsman tame by
comparison.  That alone should be a violation of your list rules which makes
Salsman persona non grata here.

Roger Helbig

----- Original Message ----- 
From: James Salsman
To: RadSafeInst at cableone.net
Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Insult

Dear Colonel Battle:

Thank you for your comments:

> you, Mr. James Salsman, crossed the line of professional
> (or even common courtesy) in calling a decorated war hero
> ... a "coward".

I owe no courtesy to the profession of killing humans on
command, as I am no longer any part of it.  Has professional
courtesy become so powerful that it allows gross negligence
to continue unchecked?

I make no apology for asking for a review of the events
leading up to the reasoned choice of a powerful weapon
without fair consideration or disclosure of the drawbacks
which were known at the time.

>... I had a (very) little to do with the Air Force choosing
> a DU anti-armor round for the A-10 GAU-8 gun, and I assure
> you no one there had any inkling of possible "side effects"
> from its use!!

Where have we heard that before?  Nobody could have imagined
that people would use airplanes to attack buildings.  Nobody
could have predicted that storm strength would increase.

For goodness sake, Colonel, uranium was a known teratogen as
far back as 1953, in the authoritative text on the subject.
You should know there was even earlier evidence which you
probably have made a promise not to discuss somewhere along
the line.

You are telling me that the military, with their UCMJ
restrictions on free speech, should be afforded any scientific
authority on these matters?  Hogwash.

How brave do you have to be to sit in an airplane and shoot
DU ordnance?  The only kind of bravery I have seen in evidence
of from the military on this issue is the kind it takes to
pay journalists under the table to print "psychological
operations product."  Shame!

Sincerely,
James Salsman

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