[ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake")

Sun Apr 15 12:43:02 CDT 2007

John,
I am sorry if I was not clear. All living system
require energy.  K-40, or photons from thorium
photons, may provide this energy for protozoan's that
are in this isolated system.  The experiment cited was
very different from the natural environment that this
organism lives in, so the usual sources may have
hampered the normal life cycle of the protozoan.

As we all know, cells metabolize compounds to survive.
 Also, cells must obey the second law of
thermodynamics. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolism#Thermodynamics_of_living_organisms
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_thermodynamics

In this often cited experiment, the protozoans are
kept in isolated enclosures (lead caves) that produced
an isolated system that reduced the protozoans ability
to develop.  Without the addition of radiation, in the
form of K-40 photon radiation, chemical processes
slowed or essentially stopped.  A similar situation
was found in bacteria that lived two miles
underground.  ". . . that the source of the hydrogen
needed for their respiration comes from the
decomposition of water by radioactive decay of
uranium, thorium and potassium."
http://www.universetoday.com/2006/10/25/bacteria-found-deep-underground/
 Could the protozoans live without radiation? 
Probably, as there are other sources of energy for
cells to utilize. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolism#Energy_from_organic_compounds

Just suppling basic nutrients are not enough.

Now, what does this mean of humans, or organisms not
in thermodynamic isolation?  Probably not much.  Other
sources of energy exist. We need potassium as it is
involved with many biochemical processes that have
evolved over the development of life.  Do we K-40? 
No, as there are many other oxidative and
thermodynamic processes what cells can use.  

--- John R Johnson <idias at interchange.ubc.ca> wrote:

> John et al
> 
> I don't think the need for potassium is directly
> related to energy. I don't 
> have a medical background but  think potassium is a
> requirement for 
> mammalian life.
> 
> I thought this was in ICRP Pub. 23, but despite all
> the information and 
> references given on page 403 it does not state that
> is is necessary for 
> life.
> 
> John
> ***************
> John R Johnson, PhD
> CEO, IDIAS, Inc.
> Vancouver, B. C.
> Canada
> (604) 222-9840
> idias at interchange.ubc.ca
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Jacobus" <crispy_bird at yahoo.com>
> To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)"
> <Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us>; "John R Johnson" 
> <idias at interchange.ubc.ca>; "Jeff Terry"
> <terryj at iit.edu>; "radsafe" 
> <radsafe at radlab.nl>
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 1:06 PM
> Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida 
> pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake")
> 
> 
> > Jim,
> > I am not sure what "we" really know. Where is the
> data
> > that shows people in low background areas are in
> > poorer health?  If anything, people with better
> health
> > care are healthier.  People who eat better are
> > healthier.
> >
> > What does "but K-40 provides a baseline of
> 0.25-0.40
> > mSv of 24/365 1/4 radiation" mean?
> >
> > My understanding is that life, e.g., protozoans,
> > requires energy.  If you deprive an organism of
> > energy, be it heat or radiation, it will not
> survive.
> > If the organism lacking K-40 is not supplied with
> > external energy, be it thorium sand or a heat
> lamp, it
> > will not survive.  I know that this fit into your
> > philosophy, but you may want to consider the
> > implications, i.e., it is not radiation but energy
> > that makes life.
> >
> > --- "Muckerheide, Jim  (CDA)"
> > <Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us> wrote:
> >
> >> John, note that I referred to an experiment in
> which
> >> the low-dose
> >> deficiency without K-40 was compensated for with
> >> either providing K-40,
> >> natural potassium, OR external radiation (I
> >> understood that it was
> >> thorium sand).  It's not the K-40 itself, but
> K-40
> >> provides a baseline
> >> of 0.25-0.40 mSv of 24/365 1/4 radiation, plus
> >> cosmic of course, and
> >> generally U/Rn and decay products, to provide a
> >> minimal level to
> >> maintain health (although we do know that people
> in
> >> the lowest-dose
> >> natural background areas are less healthy than
> >> people in average or
> >> natural high-dose areas).
> >>
> >> That is, K-40 depletion itself isn't detrimental
> as
> >> long as there is
> >> sufficient radiation from other sources!
> >>
> >> Regards, Jim
> >>
> >>
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >From: John Jacobus
> [mailto:crispy_bird at yahoo.com]
> >> >Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:58 PM
> >> >To: John R Johnson; Muckerheide, Jim (CDA); Jeff
> >> Terry; radsafe
> >> >Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida
> >> >pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake")
> >> >
> >> >John,
> >> >Yes, I am aware that we need potassium.  My
> >> question
> >> >is do we need K-40 as some believe.
> >> >
> >> >--- John R Johnson <idias at interchange.ubc.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> John
> >> >>
> >> >> It has nothing to do with K-40. We all need
> >> >> potassium to live, as I pointed
> >> >> out recently on Radsafe.
> >> >>
> >> >> John
> >> >> ***************
> >> >> John R Johnson, PhD
> >> >> CEO, IDIAS, Inc.
> >> >> Vancouver, B. C.
> >> >> Canada
> >> >> (604) 222-9840
> >> >> idias at interchange.ubc.ca
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >> From: "John Jacobus" <crispy_bird at yahoo.com>
> >> >> To: "Muckerheide, Jim (CDA)"
> >> >> <Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us>; "John R
> Johnson"
> >> >> <idias at interchange.ubc.ca>; "Jeff Terry"
> >> >> <terryj at iit.edu>; "radsafe"
> >> >> <radsafe at radlab.nl>
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:02 PM
> >> >> Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] LAT Article: Florida
> >> >> pawnshop'sradioactivesurprise("Yellow cake")
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Jim,
> >> >> > Beyond cells, is there any proof to your
> >> statement
> >> >> > regarding K-40?  A citation or two would be
> >> nice.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --- "Muckerheide, Jim  (CDA)"
> >> >> > <Jim.Muckerheide at state.ma.us> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Amen John,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Not only would you die without potassium,
> it
> >> is
> >> >> >> fairly well homeostatically controlled.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> We even know that with just K-39, removing
> the
> >> >> K-40,
> >> >> >> and shielding from external radiation,
> cells
> >> and
> >> >> >> organisms cease to function.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Regards, Jim
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >+++++++++++++++++++
> >> >"We must face the fact that the United States is
> >> neither
> >> >omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only 6
> >> percent of the
> >> >world's population; that we cannot impose our
> will
> >> upon the
> >> >other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot
> right
> >> every wrong
> >> >or reverse each adversity; and therefore there
> >> cannot be an
> >> >American solution to every world problem."
> >> >-- John F. Kennedy
> >> >
> >> >-- John
> >> >John Jacobus, MS
> >> >Certified Health Physicist
> >> >e-mail:  crispy_bird at yahoo.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>
>>_______________________________________________________________
> >> >_____________________
> >> >Be a PS3 game guru.
> >> >Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news
> and
> >> previews at
> >> >Yahoo! Games.
> >>
>
>>http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
> 
=== message truncated ===

+++++++++++++++++++
“We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient — that we are only 6 percent of the world’s population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity; and therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.”
-- John F. Kennedy 

-- John
John Jacobus, MS
Certified Health Physicist
e-mail:  crispy_bird at yahoo.com

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