[ RadSafe ] Re: Radiation Hormesis
sjd at swcp.com
Thu Dec 27 22:07:58 CST 2007
Yes, don't we all love those eminent scientists. Okay, enough on
". . . proof that a substance, which had been recognized as
carcinogenic in animals, actually causes cancer in man would require in
most cases extemely complex and lengthy epidemiologic studies. In many
cases, it may be impossible to obtain such proof because of the complexity
of controls that would be needed for a satisfactory
demonstration. Therefore, the only prudent course of action at the present
state of our knowlege is to assume that chemicals which are carcinogenic in
animals could also be so in man, although the direct demonstration in man
The citation is: Umberto Saffiotti, "The Laboratory Approach to
the Identification of Environmental Carcinogens," in Proceedings of the
Ninth Canadian Cancer Research Conference 1971, edited by P. G. Scholefield
(University of Toronto Press, 1972), pp. 23-26; cited in Federal Register
42:192 (October 4, 1977): 54152. I am quoting from "The Apocalyptics
Cancer and the Big Lie," by Edith Efron (Simon and Schuster, 1984). Efron
quotes Saffiotti on p. 87.
Sure, I'll grant you that was 1971 --- 36 years ago and a lot has
changed since then. Or has it? Are we any closer to knowing *for certain*
whether nor not it is possible to extrapolate from carcinogenicity in
animals to carcinogenicity in humans?
To further complicate matters, according to Efron, cats, dogs,
rats, mice, and hamsters get cancer from 2-acetylaminofluorene; but guinea
pigs, lemmings, and the cotton rat do not. And it goes on and on. See pp.
198-190 of Efron for more examples of selective carcinogenicity. She gives
citations for everything, citing to the scientific literature, or to
government reports on carcinogenicity.
At 09:18 PM 12/27/07 -0500, BLHamrick at aol.com wrote:
>And, I'm sure it comes as no surprise that anti-everythings also argue just
>the opposite (of what Floyd noted below) about animal studies when it suits
>Just a couple of weeks ago (December 18, 2007), there was a very sensible
>editorial in the LA Times about the ongoing uproar regarding phthalates in
>plastics ("Stop Scaring Us"). The author was roundly attacked in
>(published December 23, 2007). (One from the eminent scientist Senator
>Feinstein - said with tongue firmly in cheek). And, of course, one of the
>criticisms was that the columnist had dared to suggest that because
>cause cancer in rats, it doesn't necessarily mean it will cause it in humans.
>The letter to the editor stated, "[The columnist] repeats the old saw that
>rats have different metabolism than people. So he'd rather test people?
>testing to predict risks posed to humans by toxic substances is a
>well-established principle that provides the basis for the nation's
>policy and a host of laws seeking to protect us against this deadly disease.
>If a chemical can induce tumors in mice, we are not immune."
>The problem I have with the anti-everythings (aside from the cherry-picking)
>is they seem to be quite willing to make any argument, even to the point
>where they may make two completely inconsistent arguments depending on
>of the week (or the audience), to support their agenda.
>Barbara L. Hamrick
>In a message dated 12/27/2007 11:10:49 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com writes:
>I am a firm supporter of Hormesis but with all of the other
>environmental influences which can mask most true expressions of the
>Hormetic Effect, I fear it will be a very long time before we see such a
>study. I suppose it could be conducted on lab animals, but no matter
>what evidence was produced, the nay-sayers would find their way back to
>the fact that humans have a different physiology than the test subjects.
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