[ RadSafe ] RE: Who is using Radiation Producing Machines?:KI[sic] KCl ice melt

Tue Feb 20 13:33:24 CST 2007

Hi Stu,

On your dose rate at the center of an infinite sphere, what's the effect
on dose rate if you put yourself at the center of "hole" in the KCl
around you a few meters in diameter?  You would be exposed to much
greater surface area of KCl with only air shielding instead of KCl
(self-)shielding.  (Unless we pull  a vacuum on the hole, but then you
might not care much about the dose rate. :-)

Regards, Jim 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl 
>[mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf Of stewart farber
>Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 1:52 PM
>To: radsafe at radlab.nl; Pete_Bailey at fpl.com; Flanigan, Floyd
>Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] RE: Who is using Radiation Producing 
>Machines?:KI[sic] KCl ice melt
>
>About 15 years ago, I sent 3 samples of dried commercial grade 
>ice melt KCl 
>through an environmental lab for quantitative gamma spec 
>analysis as blind 
>QA samples to test results against lab precision criteria [ 
>+/-15% which was 
>easily realized on analyzing a sample with approximately a calculated 
>450,000 picoCi of K-40 per kg of KCl salt ].  --- [Sorry for 
>all the non-SI 
>units in this post -pleeeease don't flame me all my international list 
>members].
>
>Interesting that these KCl ice melt sample analyses also would 
>have met the 
>calculated K-40 activity of 450 nanoCi/kg of salt within 
>accuracy criteria 
>of 10% assuming the calculated activity was indeed the actual 
>K-40 content 
>indicating the KCl salt being sold for ice melt was 
>essentially pure KCl. So 
>a kg of KCl ice melt salt contains 450 nCi and Floyd's 50 
>pound sack will 
>contain about 10,200 nanoCi of K-40 per 50 pound [22.7kg]  bag of salt.
>
>As far as the dose rate from a huge pile of KCl ice melt, the 
>dose rate will 
>max out, even at the center of an infinite sphere of KCl salt due to 
>shielding of the K-40 photons by the KCl between the 
>detector/receptor and 
>the rest of the mass of material. I had one of my staff Monte Carlo 
>shielding specialists do a quick back of the envelope 
>calculation 15 years 
>ago and the dose to a person at the center of an infinite 
>sphere of KCl  was 
>less than 1 mrem/hour --about 0.5 mr/hr if I recall. 
>Interesting, but not 
>anoutrageous dose rate.
>
>If does make an interesting point however.  When I purchased a 
>5 gallon 
>container of KCl at my local BJ's Wholesale Club box store 
>[each container 
>weighed at least 40 pounds], the store had them piled up on a 
>palette [about 
>5 wide x 8 deep x 4 high -- no less than 6,400 pounds of KCl 
>on the palette] 
>near  each cash register line. I took a great photo of mothers 
>with their 
>little children sitting in shopping carts backed  up in line 
>between two 
>palettes of KCl ice melt waiting to check out.
>
>What I found interesting at the time was the thought that 
>mines are being 
>excavated to extract KCl which is being packaged and sold for 
>various uses 
>like ice-melt [resulting in incremental doses far above 
>background]. At the 
>same time various anti-nuclear groups protest the burying of 
>nuclear wastes 
>in  underground tunnels, a practice that has no potential in 
>reality to 
>result in any member of the public ever receiving an 
>incremental dose in 
>excess of that due to use of the salts [with half lifes like 
>K-40 of 1.3 
>billion years] extracted from the earth in forming the tunnels 
>initially. 
>What's wrong with this picture?? Bizarre.
>
>Stewart Farber, MS Public Health
>Consulting Scientist
>Farber Technical Services
>1285 Wood Ave.
>Bridgeport, CT 06604
>[203] 441-8433 [office]
>email: radproject at sbcglobal.net
>
>================================
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Flanigan, Floyd" <Floyd.Flanigan at nmcco.com>
>To: <Pete_Bailey at fpl.com>; <radsafe at radlab.nl>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:16 AM
>Subject: [ RadSafe ] RE: Who is using Radiation Producing Machines?: KI
>
>
>Well ... I ran a little test yesterday. I took a 50 pound bag of Ice
>Melt brand ice melting compound which contains Potassium Chloride,
>through a Gamma 60 portal monitor just for fun. It lit up 
>every detector
>like a Christmas tree. Now ... if 50 pounds of the stuff won't pass a
>Gamma 60 set @ 45nCi ... what kind of background dose rate could be
>expected in the vicinity of a 20,000 ton pile of the stuff?
>
>Floyd W. Flanigan B.S.Nuc.H.P.
>Sr. H.P. Analyst
>Prairie Island
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Pete_Bailey at fpl.com [mailto:Pete_Bailey at fpl.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 10:11 AM
>To: radsafe at radlab.nl
>Cc: Flanigan, Floyd
>Subject: re: Who is using Radiation Producing Machines?: KI
>
>
>>  Machines aside, is anyone handling the stock-piles of
>> Potassium Chloride for ice remediation by State DOTs?
>
>
>ummm, why,,,do ya need more ?
>
>Florida has lots of KI, not too much ice on the road  :-)
>
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