[ RadSafe ] nuclear-powered submarine has collided with a Japanesetanker

[stewart farber]

Hello all,

As my original comment indicated [see below], any reference to a disaster involving radioactivity with the sub/oil tanker bump reported was completely tongue-in-cheek. There was a "smiley face" emoticon after my mention of a radioactive oil spill. I can't conceive of any accident involving a collision between a sub and a surface vessel that could damage a sub to such an extent.

Anyone who knows me appreciates that I enjoy the irony and satire which was evident in my post. Let's keep our sense of humor! I wrote initially:

"If the sub and oil tanker really got damaged in a situation like this, there might have been a large radioactive oil spill in the Gulf's Straits of Hormuz. :-)  Talk about a disaster movie plot. What a cleanup problem. Coming soon to a theatre near you."

Maybe I should just write a script for the above disaster movie plot. If the "Poseidon Adventure" story line can end up as two Hollywood feature films with millions of $ going to the screenwriters, perhaps I'm in the wrong field.

Stewart Farber, MS Public Health
Farber Medical Solutions, LLC
Broker for Linac, Medical Imaging Equipment, and Radiation Instrumentation
[203] 441-8433 [office]
email: radproject at sbcglobal.net


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Brian Rees 
  To: stewart farber ; Dawson, Fred Mr ; radsafe at radlab.nl ; srp-uk at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] nuclear-powered submarine has collided with a Japanesetanker


  Having spent quite a bit of time submerged on nuclear power, and some of that may have been in the Straits of Hormuz, I'd like to make a few comments.  

  First of all, a submarine can't hear very effectively directly behind it, so when they come up to periscope depth, they turn from side to side, listening in that "cone" for somebody who may be coming up behind you.  So if you come up too quickly, and don't do that job well, you can get in trouble.  Exciting, to say the least!!!

  Secondly, the Straits of Hormuz are a "target-rich" environment, and keeping track of who's where, going in which direction, at what speed is very challenging, and the ships can change speed and direction at will.   Remember, they aren't on roads.  And the ocean and ocean bottom can do funny things to reflect sounds.   Submarines don't use active sonar very much (kinda defeats their purpose!).   

  Thirdly, sea state and weather conditions aren't mentioned, so this may have contributed as well, a periscope is a radar target, and isn't put up any farther than required.  Any substantial sea will limit your horizon, and although an oil tanker is big tonnage, loaded they can sit fairly low in the water.  

  All that said, yes, it's an embarrassment.  The collision between the USS Greeneville and the Japanese Ship Ehime Maru was a combination of some of the factors above, and poor conduct of operations in the control room of the USS Greeneville.  It's too bad that the people who claim to know Conduct of Ops don't know more about that accident and apply lessons learned to operations, rather that some of the BS that they do. 

  As far as a radioactive release as a result of a collision, that's extremely remote, a Submarine's hull is quite thick and strong, and there are multiple layers between radioactive materials and the fishes.  

  For more (quite good) reading about submarine life, I highly recommend Andy Karam's (!) book: Rig Ship for Ultra Quiet - available from Amazon Books.  

  Brian Rees 


  At 09:12 AM 1/9/2007, stewart farber wrote:

    Hello colleagues,

    Regarding the post by Fred Dawson about a US sub hitting an oil tanker. It is difficult to understand how a nuclear sub, with all its navigation equipment and sensors to detect anything near it [supposedly] can run up and hit an oil tanker. A tanker is a fairly large object on the surface that is not running along in a stealth mode like an enemy attack sub --- isn't it? An unfortunate embarassment for the US Navy.

    Some will certainly paint this story as a new nuclear attack of sorts on the Japanese. 

    "Run Silent, Run Deep" is supposed to be what subs "aim" for. Theoretically, this could have been quite the disaster. 

    If the sub and oil tanker really got damaged in a situation like this, there might have been a large radioactive oil spill in the Gulf's Straits of Hormuz. :-) Talk about a disaster movie plot. What a cleanup problem. Coming soon to a theatre near you.

    Stewart Farber, MS Public Health
    Farber Medical Solutions, LLC
    Broker for Linac & Medical Imaging Equipment
    [203] 441-8433 [office]
    email: radproject at sbcglobal.net


              
    ==============================


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: "Dawson, Fred Mr" <Fred.Dawson199 at mod.uk>
    To: <radsafe at radlab.nl>; <srp-uk at yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 2:28 AM
    Subject: [ RadSafe ] nuclear-powered submarine has collided with a Japanesetanker


    BBC reports US sub collides with Japan ship 

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6243395.stm

    A US nuclear-powered submarine has collided with a Japanese tanker near
    the Straits of Hormuz, Japanese and US government officials have said.
    The USS Newport News did not suffer substantial damage, and there were
    no injuries to crew, a US Navy spokeswoman told the AFP news agency. 

    There were no oil spills from Japanese tanker, the Mogamigawa, and no
    injuries, a company official said. The tanker will dock in the United
    Arab Emirates to check the damage. The bow of the submarine collided
    with the stern of the oil tanker at 1915GMT just outside the busy
    shipping lanes of the Straits of Hormuz. 

    US Navy spokesman in Bahrain said that there had been a collision. 

    "I can confirm that an incident took place between one of our submarines
    and a merchant ship," said Commander Kevin Aandahl of the US Fifth
    Fleet. 

    The 110-metre (360-foot) USS Newport News carries a crew of 127. 



    Fred Dawson
    Fwp-dawson at hotmail.com



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