[ RadSafe ] NYC permitting of detectors: NYPD proposes some changes.

Dan W McCarn hotgreenchile at gmail.com
Mon Feb 4 12:27:04 CST 2008

Dear Clayton:

I recommend that you make contact with the New York State Council of
Professional Geologists, NYSCPG, Box 2281, Albany, NY 12220-0281.  I spoke
with Mark Williams, President of the NYSCPG a few minutes ago, and he was
not aware of this new, proposed law for New York City.  He commented that it
would affect hundreds of geoscience, environmental science, geotechnical,
chemistry & biology personnel currently working on issues related to
environmental protection and pollution characterization.

Mark A. Williams, President, 518-270-1620, ext. 106
Charles A. Rich, Vice President, 516-576-8844


§ 20-05 (d) seems to make the entire piece of legislation moot at least for
radiological detection.  I doubt that the debate has been brought to the
attention of the geologic community in New York.  Since geologists provide
the first line of support in the detection, characterization and prevention
of environmental contamination and pollution, they employ a wide range of
field detection equipment such as photo-ionization detectors (PID),
scintillation counters, Gas Chromatograph-Mass Spectrometers (GC-MS), H2S
detectors, etc. which would definitely fall under the proposed law.

I found Stewart's remark, "Never attribute to malice, that which can be
explained by pure stupidity" as perfectly accurate and appropriate.

In a way, I'm surprised that you haven't been invited to provide testimony
given who you are, what you do and the depth and clarity that you can
provide in the discussion.

If there is anything that I can do, say or write, I am at your disposal. I
know that you must be extremely frustrated with this.

Dan ii

Dan W. McCarn, Geologist; 3118 Pebble Lake Drive; Sugar Land, TX 77479; USA
Cell: +1-505-710-3600; Home: +1-281-903-7667; Fax: +1-713-241-1012; Office:
mccarn at unileoben.ac.at HotGreenChile at gmail.com UConcentrate at gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf
Of Clayton J Bradt
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:58 AM
To: radsafe at radlab.nl
Subject: [ RadSafe ] NYC permitting of detectors: NYPD proposes some

NYPD is drafting some changes in the proposed law and has drafted proposed
regs.  Below are the most relevant passages.  I don't know if these have
been posted anywhere, I couldn't find them on the City Council web site, so
I'm just posting excerpts.

Proposed changes to Law:

§ 10-802 Permits for possession or deployment of biological, chemical and
radiological detectors.  a.  It shall be unlawful for any person to possess
or deploy a biological, chemical or radiological detector in the city of
New York unless such person holds a valid permit therefor, provided,
however, that the commissioner shall exclude by rule any class or type of
biological, chemical or radiological detector that shall not require such
permit because such detector does not have as a purpose the detection of  a
possible biological, chemical or radiological weapons attack.

Proposed regulations:

§ 20-05 Exceptions.

Notwithstanding the provisions of Chapter 8 of Title 10 of the New York

City Administrative Code, no permit or notification of alarm is required

for the following types of detectors:

      (a) Smoke alarms;

      (b) Carbon monoxide detectors;

      (c) Radon detectors;

      (d) Hand-held or portable radiological detectors or Geiger counters

designed and intended for use by individuals; and

      (e) Detectors which do not have as a purpose the detection of a

possible biological, chemical or radiological weapons attack, and include:

            (i) Detectors possessed or deployed by an accredited academic

or instructional institution in an academic setting, whether in a

laboratory, classroom or in the field, by instructors or students, for the

purpose of academic instruction;

            (ii) Radiation detectors possessed and deployed by hospitals

and other health care delivery settings, except for fixed portal radiation


            (iii) Detectors possessed or deployed by utilities or in an

industrial setting for the purpose of monitoring internal air quality or

leakage of hazardous materials; and

            (iv) Detectors possessed or deployed by certified industrial

hygienists and other individuals or entities responsible for or engaging in

testing or monitoring of workplace or environmental safety.


As originally written, the law was outrageous and stupid. Now its just

Clayton J. Bradt
Assistant Bureau Director
NYS Dept. of Health

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