[ RadSafe ] o.4 Sv extra radiation over 10 years may protect from much teratogenesis

Tue Jul 1 21:36:20 CDT 2008

Dr. Long,
Teratogenesis has nothing to do with genetic diseases.  As a physician, I would think you knew what it meant.  

But I have always been fasicinate with your lack of knowledge.  

+++++++++++++++++++

-- John
John Jacobus, MS
Certified Health Physicist
e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com

--- On Sat, 5/31/08, howard.long at comcast.net <howard.long at comcast.net> wrote:

From: howard.long at comcast.net <howard.long at comcast.net>
Subject: [ RadSafe ] o.4 Sv extra radiation over 10 years may protect from much teratogenesis
To: Rainer.Facius at dlr.de, garyi at trinityphysics.com, radsafe at radlab.nl
Date: Saturday, May 31, 2008, 12:08 PM

Evidence of protection from teratogenesis by many times usual background
radiation 
should be added to Ranier's excellent but brief discussion of 
teratogenesis (genetic disease).

 "- congenital heart malformations -1.5 cases per 1,000 - under 19. "
[10,000 persons 9-20 years in Taiwan apts averaged 0.4Sv from Co60 in
construction steel]
"-official statistics and hospital experience, the prevalance rate of
congenital malformation is
23 cases per 1,000 children. [in other local population]
- it appears that significant beneficial health effects may be associated with
this chronic radiation exposure." 
Is Chronic Radiation An Effective Prophylaxis Against Cancer? Chen WL,Luan YC
et al
J Am Physicians and Surgeons 9:1 Spring 2004 and www.aapsonline.org 

Howard Long

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: <Rainer.Facius at dlr.de> 

> Gary and all, 
> 
> to add some more relevant facts – relevant also with respect to
radiation 
> protection – to this somewhat confusing – or in part obfuscated –
exchange: 
> 
> Environmental toxins affect either cells of the soma or of the germ-line 
> yielding somatic or genetic sequelae. Soma and germ-line constitute an 
> exhaustive and mutually exclusive partition of the cells of higher
metazoa. 
> 
> Somatic effects affect the exposed individual. Genetic effects are
imprinted to 
> the genome (possibly including the epi-genom) of germ-line cells and
thereby 
> become transmitted to the F1. Non-lethal, genetic effects accumulate in an

> exposed population leading to the – so far - about 3000 known hereditary

> diseases in humans. 
> 
> Effects to the progeny of exposures between conception and birth can be
somatic 
> and genetic again. Genetic effects in utero again become manifest not
until the 
> next, the F2, generation. 
> 
> Somatic effects to progeny of exposures in utero result in untoward
outcomes 
> such as stillbirth, premature birth, or teratogenesis (malformations) such
as 
> spina bifida or microencephaly. Teratogenesis, i.e., “ the disturbed
growth 
> processes involved in the production of a malformed neonate” results
from 
> irregular timing or incomplete sequences of organogenesis due to stimuli
from 
> the environment – which includes the maternal organism. 
> 
> Addressing the business of radsafe by turning to ionizing radiation as an 
> environmental toxin, the findings from the most important exposure of
human 
> populations, i.e., the survivors of the atomic bombings demonstrate that
this so 
> far most severe exposure did not yield any measurable genetic effect in
the F1 
> generation. Concerning teratogenesis, fetuses exposed in a period between
8 to 
> about 15 weeks after gestation showed few incidences of microencephaly as
the 
> only teratogenic sequela from the atomic bombing. Importantly, the
corresponding 
> dose effect relation – crudely as it could be determined – displayed
the 
> hallmark of deterministic radiation effects, i.e., a more or less marked
dose 
> threshold below which no effects will ensue. Given this empirical data
base, the 
> claim that radiation from depleted uranium can engender genetic or
teratogenic 
> health effects at the exposures in question must be relegated to the realm
of 
> science fiction. 
> 
> Regards, Rainer 
> 
> Off topic: From the perspective of the conceptus/fetus the statistically
largest 
> environmental risk of irregular organogenesis and an untoward outcome of a

> pregnancy nowadays stems from the mental constitution of the maternal
organism – 
> in particular if the fetus carries two X chromosomes. 
> 
> ----Original Message----- 
> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of garyi at trinityphysics.com 
> Sent: Fri 30.05.2008 19:22 
> To: radsafelist 
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] teratogenesis can be pre-utero 
> 
> Statements like this show that James is not competent to debate this
issue. 
> When you get 
> caught with your pants down like this, especially when it is pointed out
gently 
> as Rainer has 
> done, the correct response is to admit the blunder. Instead, James
(whatever 
> his name is 
> right now) pretends to be absolutely correct. 
> 
> -Gary Isenhower 
> 
> On 30 May 2008 at 6:34, James Salsman wrote: 
> 
> > Dear Dr. Facius, 
> > 
> > Thank you for your message: 
> > 
> > >... teratogenesis by definition refers to effects 
> > > engendered IN UTERO.... 
> > 
> > On the contrary, any damage to spermatogonium, oogonium, oocyte, 
> > ootid, or ovum chromosomes prior to folliculogenesis may also result 
> > in congenital malformations. 
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