[ RadSafe ] o.4 Sv extra radiation over 10 years may protect from much teratogenesis

Muckerheide muckerheide at comcast.net
Wed Jul 2 00:41:09 CDT 2008 

John,

You misread Howard's statement; and you seem to misunderstand the basic
biology:

1. On the biology, see, e.g.:
http://www.rwjuh.edu/health_information/centers_pregnancy_typegene.html

³What are the types of genetic disease?
The following are the different types of genetic diseases:
-chromosomal abnormalities
-single gene defects
-multifactorial problems
-teratogenic problems²

2. But Howard¹s statement said nothing about that.  He referred to the fact
that LDR results in lower birth defect rates.  It does this (essentially
equivalent to reducing tumors) by enhancing the normal capacity for
error-free cellular repair and removal.

At the 2- to 4-cell embryo stage (1-3 days in humans) there is increased
miscarriage as a result of limitations on cell-society capacity to organize
cell removal/replacement.  This results in fewer birth defects.  (This is
pre-implantation stage.)

Regards, Jim
=========
 

on 7/1/08 10:36 PM, John Jacobus at crispy_bird at yahoo.com wrote:

> Dr. Long,
> Teratogenesis has nothing to do with genetic diseases.  As a physician, I
> would think you knew what it meant. 
>  
> But I have always been fasicinate with your lack of knowledge. 
> 
> +++++++++++++++++++
> 
> -- John
> John Jacobus, MS
> Certified Health Physicist
> e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com
> 
> --- On Sat, 5/31/08, howard.long at comcast.net <howard.long at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> From: howard.long at comcast.net <howard.long at comcast.net>
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] o.4 Sv extra radiation over 10 years may protect from
> much teratogenesis
> To: Rainer.Facius at dlr.de, garyi at trinityphysics.com, radsafe at radlab.nl
> Date: Saturday, May 31, 2008, 12:08 PM
> 
> Evidence of protection from teratogenesis by many times usual background
> radiation 
> should be added to Ranier's excellent but brief discussion of
> teratogenesis (genetic disease).
> 
>  "- congenital heart malformations -1.5 cases per 1,000 - under 19. "
> [10,000 persons 9-20 years in Taiwan apts averaged 0.4Sv from Co60 in
> construction steel]
> "-official statistics and hospital experience, the prevalance rate of
> congenital malformation is
> 23 cases per 1,000 children. [in other local population]
> - it appears that significant beneficial health effects may be associated with
> this chronic radiation exposure."
> Is Chronic Radiation An Effective Prophylaxis Against Cancer? Chen WL,Luan YC
> et al
> J Am Physicians and Surgeons 9:1 Spring 2004 and www.aapsonline.org
> 
> Howard Long
> 
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: <Rainer.Facius at dlr.de>
> 
>> Gary and all, 
>> 
>> to add some more relevant facts ­ relevant also with respect to
> radiation 
>> protection ­ to this somewhat confusing ­ or in part obfuscated ­
> exchange: 
>> 
>> Environmental toxins affect either cells of the soma or of the germ-line
>> yielding somatic or genetic sequelae. Soma and germ-line constitute an
>> exhaustive and mutually exclusive partition of the cells of higher
> metazoa. 
>> 
>> Somatic effects affect the exposed individual. Genetic effects are
> imprinted to 
>> the genome (possibly including the epi-genom) of germ-line cells and
> thereby 
>> become transmitted to the F1. Non-lethal, genetic effects accumulate in an
> 
>> exposed population leading to the ­ so far - about 3000 known hereditary
> 
>> diseases in humans.
>> 
>> Effects to the progeny of exposures between conception and birth can be
> somatic 
>> and genetic again. Genetic effects in utero again become manifest not
> until the 
>> next, the F2, generation.
>> 
>> Somatic effects to progeny of exposures in utero result in untoward
> outcomes 
>> such as stillbirth, premature birth, or teratogenesis (malformations) such
> as 
>> spina bifida or microencephaly. Teratogenesis, i.e., ³ the disturbed
> growth 
>> processes involved in the production of a malformed neonate² results
> from 
>> irregular timing or incomplete sequences of organogenesis due to stimuli
> from 
>> the environment ­ which includes the maternal organism.
>> 
>> Addressing the business of radsafe by turning to ionizing radiation as an
>> environmental toxin, the findings from the most important exposure of
> human 
>> populations, i.e., the survivors of the atomic bombings demonstrate that
> this so 
>> far most severe exposure did not yield any measurable genetic effect in
> the F1 
>> generation. Concerning teratogenesis, fetuses exposed in a period between
> 8 to 
>> about 15 weeks after gestation showed few incidences of microencephaly as
> the 
>> only teratogenic sequela from the atomic bombing. Importantly, the
> corresponding 
>> dose effect relation ­ crudely as it could be determined ­ displayed
> the 
>> hallmark of deterministic radiation effects, i.e., a more or less marked
> dose 
>> threshold below which no effects will ensue. Given this empirical data
> base, the 
>> claim that radiation from depleted uranium can engender genetic or
> teratogenic 
>> health effects at the exposures in question must be relegated to the realm
> of 
>> science fiction.
>> 
>> Regards, Rainer 
>> 
>> Off topic: From the perspective of the conceptus/fetus the statistically
> largest 
>> environmental risk of irregular organogenesis and an untoward outcome of a
> 
>> pregnancy nowadays stems from the mental constitution of the maternal
> organism ­ 
>> in particular if the fetus carries two X chromosomes.
>> 
>> ----Original Message-----
>> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl on behalf of garyi at trinityphysics.com
>> Sent: Fri 30.05.2008 19:22
>> To: radsafelist 
>> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] teratogenesis can be pre-utero
>> 
>> Statements like this show that James is not competent to debate this
> issue. 
>> When you get 
>> caught with your pants down like this, especially when it is pointed out
> gently 
>> as Rainer has 
>> done, the correct response is to admit the blunder. Instead, James
> (whatever 
>> his name is 
>> right now) pretends to be absolutely correct.
>> 
>> -Gary Isenhower 
>> 
>> On 30 May 2008 at 6:34, James Salsman wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Dr. Facius,
>>> 
>>> Thank you for your message:
>>> 
>>>> ... teratogenesis by definition refers to effects
>>>> engendered IN UTERO....
>>> 
>>> On the contrary, any damage to spermatogonium, oogonium, oocyte,
>>> ootid, or ovum chromosomes prior to folliculogenesis may also result
>>> in congenital malformations.
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