[ RadSafe ] FW: [GeigerCounterEnthusiasts] Re:BestDosimeter/Personal Rad Monitor

Sun Aug 9 14:03:05 CDT 2009

The Arizona Nuclear War Survival Skills Tour:A National Model? was presented to ~ 150 Doctors for Disaster Preparedness attendees (many engineers, etc) last Sunday, Aug 2 2009 in Denver by Steve Jones and Kevin McDonald. 

kevinlmcd at gmail.com 

Rural fire departments were found very receptive. 

They would like to hear from you and could contribute to this discussion from experience with dozens of public safety groups. 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Geo>K0FF" <GEOelectronics at netscape.com> 
To: "Doug Aitken" <jdaitken at sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com>, "Roger Helbig" <rhelbig at sfo.com>, radsafe at radlab.nl 
Cc: "brent keate" <brent.keate at colorado.edu> 
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 10:09:59 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: [ RadSafe ] FW: [GeigerCounterEnthusiasts] Re:BestDosimeter/Personal Rad Monitor 

> George: I think the purpose of the cross-post was to extend the question 
> from hobbyists to professionals..... 
> Regards 
> Doug 
> ___________________________________ 
> Doug Aitken 
> QHSE Advisor 

I see Doug. Could it be that the questioner was looking for an insightfull, 
hands-on and friendly answer? Compare this 
"hobbyist's" answer to the ones this question and similar get from the pros: 
Re: Best Dosimeter/Personal Rad Monitor 

Brent, 

This really isn't the best place to be asking. Here and the CDV700CLUB are 
groups for folks interest in radiation as a hobby, not HazMat or Health 
Physics. 

You need to define further what these "first responders" need. Is it a PRD 
for 
Preventative RAD/NUC Detection (PRND), with that you're trying to find 
illicit 
material or a bomb. Or, is it for response to a radiation emergency to allow 
the 
responder to determine the safety of the environment? Note that you need to 
prepare for the latter before you start moving into the PRND side of things. 
This is where folks get confused and mean one thing but buy for the other. 

The PM1703 is OK if you are doing PRND work. It's very sensitive for finding 
that nuke someone's carrying in the ice chest next to you, but maxes out at 
4000 
uRAD/hr, which is just 4 mRAD/hr. For emergency response, that's just a 
feather 
tickle. The GammaRae mentioned by another member maxes out at 10 RAD/hr. 
That's 
somewhat reasonable, but still a joke of a top scale. It's what you get with 
these pager-size scintillator units. PRND use only. 

I second Rick's recommendation of the Canberra CD V-719 MiniRadiac, now 
known as 
the UltraRadiac. It is an outstanding instrument with dose rate capability 
that 
not only can do the microRAD/hr ranges seen in normal life, but can go up to 
500 
RAD/hr. That is acceptable. Yes, it's a little slower to respond with the 
"time 
to count" G-M system that Canberra uses, but that's how it's able to get 
such an 
impressive range as opposed to other similar sized units. Homeland Security 
will 
fund this device, and uses it at all of its training. 

Before you buy anything, the first thing you need to consider is your 
training. 
There's classes offered by the state and federal government on radiation 
emergencies. It is only once your guys have adequate training should you 
start 
looking at equipment. Once you do, next is to find out what your local 
agencies 
and state are using. You generally want to standardize with your peers and 
seek 
their advice. I looked up the acronyms you listed, and I believe you are in 
Colorado, correct? 

If so, Emergency Management should be your first stop: 
http://www.dola.state.co.us/dem/index.html . If EM can't help you, check out 
your Radiation Control office at http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/hm/rad/ . It 
seems 
they be more into the radiation emergency side of things than your EM office 
is 
at first glance. That tends to be the case in a lot of states after FEMA cut 
funding for civil defense type stuff in 1996. 

Here's a guide by your own state Radiation Control office on this very 
issue: 
http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/hm/rad/rml/detectorguide.pdf 

Have you yet considered the yearly calibration? Typically, no one does when 
they 
buy. Yet, this is one of the most important factors. Your state may still 
have 
it's Civil Defense calibration facility open, and they can definitely do the 
MiniRadiac's. 

Feel free to e-mail me off-list. I do the Civil Defense and Emergency 
Response 
side of things for a Southern state's Radiation Control agency. We ended up 
ordering 600 MiniRadiac's when this issue came up for our inspectors, County 
Health Departments, and other state agencies. We intend to do the same 
shortly 
for the Highway Patrol and some other agencies when funding makes itself 
available. 

-Nick 

--- In GeigerCounterEnthusiasts at yahoogroups.com, Brent Keate 
<brent.keate at ...> 
wrote: 
> 
> Homeland Security has authorized some funds for our institution to 
> purchase some Dosimeters/Personal Rad Monitors for first responders on 
> campus. Does anyone have some input as to what might be the best to 
> purchase? We got a quote from our sister group, UCHSC, for a Model 
> 1703M-01 from BNC. This unit looks great in that it has a CsI (Tl) and 
> a G-M tube detector and stores the event data for later analysis which 
> is important as most of these units will go to CU Police and FD 
> personnel. Does anyone have a suggestion as to what else I might 
> compare this unit to or any input from those who have actually used this 
> unit? 
> 
> 
> ________________________________ 
> 
> 
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=10603698/grpspId=1705083412/ 
> msgId=16076/stime=1249314094/nc1=4507179/nc2=5191952/nc3=5170419> 
> 

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