AW: [ RadSafe ] Government eyes Supertanker for dirty duty

[Franz Schönhofer]

Dear Maury, dear dog,

I do not know who of you is responsible for the message first hand, but
whoever it is, please accept my highest respect for your insight!

Being a long time RADSAFER I remember very well the fierce discussions on
RADSAFE about the effects or rather non-effects of "dirty bombs". I had the
impression that it was once for all settled, that a dirty bomb, with
whatever source of radioactive material available on the "open market" could
not cause a really bad disaster except for its explosive force. (Think how
many people are killed in everyday bomb explosions in Afghanistan and
Iraq!!!!) 

Having been heavily involved in the consequences of the Chernobyl accident
in Austria (and Europe) I can only laugh at the proposal to spray 90 % of
Europes surface with some "gel", washing powder or whatsoever. It was
mentioned in the promotion that contamination from Chernobyl was even driven
to the most northern areas of Europe - what a nonsense! Not only were the
most northern areas of Finland, Sweden and Norway relatively little
affected, but otherwise the contamination covered almost all of Europe from
Poland to Greece, from Germany to Italy, from France to Spain, not to talk
about Greece and Turkey. So even the promotion cannot be taken serious.

What about the environmental impact of those "gels"? Other RADSAFErs have
clearly put forward the logistics, which is simply impossible to organize. I
remember that what I think was called the "Strategic bomber command" was
flying a few decades ago 24hours a day around the world with a heavy load of
nuclear bombs - are we now going to have a similar force of Supertankers
around? 

Since so many other RADSAFErs have posted their objections as well I tend to
regard this original message as a hoax.

Best regards to you, Maury and a friendly "Wuff, wuff" to the dog!

Franz


Franz Schoenhofer, PhD
MinRat i.R.
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Wien/Vienna
AUSTRIA


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag
von Maury Siskel
Gesendet: Freitag, 21. August 2009 18:55
An: Brennan, Mike (DOH)
Cc: radsafe at radlab.nl
Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] Government eyes Supertanker for dirty duty

Please accept advance apology for my laziness, but if anyone would look 
back a couple years in  http://radlab.nl/radsafe/archives/  I'm sure 
there was extensive discussion of dirty bombs. All things are possible, 
but I think the upshot was that the effectiveness of such a device was 
near nil except for explosive effects and panic responses.  Probably a 
more effective terrorism device to explode a keg of baking soda to 
spread fears of anthrax .....?

But maybe it would be constructive to coat all the people and cars 
running aound with a sticky gel to slow folks down so they go back 
indoors to take a cold shower .... <g>
Best,
Maury&Dog
=======================

Brennan, Mike (DOH) wrote:

>At the most likely end of the spectrum of possible dirty bomb events, I
>would place a crude explosive with some medical or consumer-available
>rad material, with the goal being to create panic far in excess of what
>the explosive itself would cause.  The chances that aerial bombardment
>with gel or foam would help is very small.  
>
>I am not sure I believe in a sophisticated dirty bomb in which its
>lethality is enhanced by adding radioactive material (beyond that
>material causing first responders and policy makers to make ill-advised
>and misinformed decisions, which likely would cause extra casualties).
>The fact of the matter is that the better the explosion is at dispersing
>the radioactive material, the lower the concentrations of said material,
>and the lower the dose rate.  
>
>A nuclear weapon is a different story.  The source term is so much
>higher, at least initially, so you can get dangerously high dose rates
>over a large area, and the explosion is hot enough to loft fallout high
>enough to go a long way.  But even in this case, is a tanker of gel 12+
>hours after the event going to do anything useful?  I am doubtful.
>
>This program will cost at least a billion dollars, and have, in my
>opinion, very limited value.  A better use of that money would be to
>develop GOOD educational material on radiation issues and teach it in
>school.  A billion dollars could produce a lot of informed citizens. 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Doug Huffman [mailto:doug.huffman at wildblue.net] 
>Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:11 PM
>To: Brennan, Mike (DOH); radsafe at radlab.nl
>Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Government eyes Supertanker for dirty duty
>
>Have we that may know merely dirty from 'bomb' ever put a sharp pencil
>on one?
>
>I find it hard to believe that an effectively dirty bomb is much
>different from a nuclear device or that a practical dirty bomb is
>particularly dirty at all.  'Practical' constrained by mass, specific
>activity and so on.
>
>Brennan, Mike (DOH) wrote:
>
>  
>
>>For dirty bombs, the first thing to do is keep ignorant policy makers
>>    
>>
>from doing stupid things, like requiring wounded people be deconned
>before they are treated, or ordering evacuations when shelter in place
>is called for.  As for deconning big chunks of a city; fire hoses and
>the storm drain system will be more useful than airplanes full of hair
>gel.
>  
>
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>  
>

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