[ RadSafe ] RadSafe Digest, Vol 239, Issue 1

[Dan W McCarn]

(This is my last posting on the subject.)

Ken, what "essential liberty" is at stake here?

"Life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness" is the phrase from the
Declaration of Independence.  Note that "Life" comes first...

But I agree that almost any method to enhance safety, technical or
otherwise, should be examined, short of focusing on any one specific group,
race, nationality, ethnicity, religion, etc.  The Baader-Meinhof-Gang (Rote
Armee Fraktion) and Action Directe were indistinguishable from other German
or French citizens, so only a random search would have detected them
carrying weapons, etc.  Their invisibility was the reason they survived so
long, and only through excellent intel were they ultimately taken-down.

Another issue here is while travelling and using a public means of
transportation, do we have a reasonable expectation of privacy? I don't
think so!  And I don't think that the courts think that, either.  That is
why searches can occur.  While I lived in Austria, I would be stopped by the
police about 2-3 times per year and be required to produce all of the
required documents.  These were random checks. In the USA, there must be
probable cause before the police can stop you.

I've noticed that the bus drivers in Santa Fe, New Mexico systematically
refuse service to individuals who are publically intoxicated or belligerent,
and they always call-in when they refuse service.  Pilots of commercial
aircraft have, and sometimes exercise, the same power to refuse a passenger
based on behavior or perceived risk.

It is a privilege to fly or ride the bus, not a right.

Dan ii

--
Dan W McCarn, Geologist
2867 A Fuego Sagrado
Santa Fe, NM 87505
+1-505-310-3922 (Mobile - New Mexico)
HotGreenChile at gmail.com (Private email)

-----Original Message-----
From: Peterson, Ken [mailto:Ken.Peterson at us.fincantieri.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 13:09
To: Dan W McCarn
Cc: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] RadSafe Digest, Vol 239, Issue 1

Dan,

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin

I have read that the Israelis do a wonderful job of transportation
security, not through the use of technology or invasive searches, but by
using trained observers and psychology.  Maybe we (sorry - "we" meaning
the USA) could learn much from them.


Ken Peterson

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan W McCarn [mailto:hotgreenchile at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:13 PM
To: 'Brennan, Mike (DOH)'; radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
Cc: Peterson, Ken
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] RadSafe Digest, Vol 239, Issue 1

Dear Ken:

I agree with Mike on this one.  Also remember that the shoe bomber came
from
overseas... Since we are so interconnected, it is the obligation of all
governments to help assure flight safety at all levels, and many
regulations
are international e.g. IATA transport regs.  This means that a bag
checked
at some obscure airport should have the same scrutiny as a bag checked
(or
brought onboard) at a major airport.  This provides consistency
internationally.  

http://www.iata.org/index.htm 

I offer as an example my exempt check sources that I occasionally travel
with: I provide this following statement along with a calculation to
demonstrate compliance and a few telephone numbers to NRC and the
manufacturer of the sealed sources.

"The enclosed check / calibration sources are not considered radioactive
material for transport because they do not meet the test for DOT
"Radioactive Material" as defined in 49 CFR 173.403 as well as IATA
10.4.2.1"

Otherwise I would have to ship them under UN2910 regulations including
labeling.  If anyone would like a copy of the statement that I enclose
in my
baggage, I'd be delighted to provide it!

Air travel is a privilege, not a right.  The same is true for a drivers
license.

Personally, I don't mind being selected-out for close inspection; I
always
tell the folks conducting the inspection with a smile that "You mean I'm
special!?" and almost always get a smile back.  A couple of times it was
to
clarify objects in my baggage, almost always my Ludlum Model 19, and
once, a
saddle for my horse!  The smell of the horse on the saddle may have
caused a
false positive from the sniffing dogs and it had an unusual shape.

Where have I been selected for close inspection? The USA, Germany,
Belarus,
Kazakhstan and China so far.  That seems pretty international to me!
And,
as often as I have flown into and out of Schwechat in Vienna (30-40
times),
I've never been searched. It must be my Austrian accent!

Dan ii

--
Dan W McCarn, Geologist
2867 A Fuego Sagrado
Santa Fe, NM 87505
+1-505-310-3922 (Mobile - New Mexico)
HotGreenChile at gmail.com (Private email)

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Brennan, Mike
(DOH)
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:58
To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] RadSafe Digest, Vol 239, Issue 1

Hi, Ken.

If you have to pay money, it isn't a right (one of the things that
distinguish "rights" from "privileges" is that rights are paid for
collectively rather than individually, and the coin is often much more
valuable than money).  It is a clear fact that traveling by commercial
air is handled as a contractual agreement between the carrier and the
(intended) passenger, subject to non-trivial levels of regulation
designed to serve a number of agendas.  At the moment, many of those
regulations are aimed at preventing people from bringing things aboard
planes that would let them threaten the plane or passengers.  I think
there are a lot of things that could be done to make the system more
effective (a national ID system, for example, with biometric
verification, for example), but that is another discussion.  

As for frisking little old ladies: Your objection shows a lack of
imagination.  Do you think that someone who is willing to bring down an
airplane would balk at using an elderly person as their delivery system?
And if you don't think that senior citizens can hate strongly enough (or
can be brought to that point by manipulation) to use their own deaths to
make a point, you see a different world than I do.  As for the "only on
international flights" argument, I invite you to refresh your memory as
to where the 9/11 planes took off from, and where they were going.  

The system could be much better, and more efficient and cost effective.
If used properly the new scanners can actually be a step in the right
direction.  I find it annoying that the puritanical body taboos of the
few are given such deference, and that they often try to co-opt
completely spurious radiation health arguments.

I agree with you that terrorists follow the best risk-to-return ratio.
For the last eight years the best ratio has been roadside bombs in Iraq.
As the number of Americans available in that venue decreases, it is
entirely possible some groups will try for more difficult targets, such
as airplanes.  It is a fair investment to make their job more difficult,
and I think the new scanners are a step in the right direction, though
years late.  And, if it is the only step, we are in trouble.    

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Peterson, Ken
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 2:06 PM
To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] RadSafe Digest, Vol 239, Issue 1

Mike,

I take exception to point (1).  Air travel is not a privilege; if you
can pay the fare and don't have a bombmaking background - you have every
right to fly - and not be hassled in the process.  I fly 75K miles per
year, and I resent tax dollars wasted in creating bigger bureaucracies
and money pits like the TSA who give authority over me to those who
don't deserve or earn it.  

I believe frisking 80 year old ladies before they get on the Burbank to
Phoenix flight is stupid and futile.  I am tired of countless delays,
removing shoes, packing my nail clippers, arriving at the airport two
hours before a flight to stand in endless security lines.  I welcome
these scanners if they are unobtrusive and one can briskly walk through
them without delay.  

While I think international flights are another matter, for domestic
travel, arming the pilots and armoring the cockpit door is all the
security we need.  Once the goal of using the plane as a guided missile
is thwarted, and the only possible result is killing 100 passengers and
a dozen people on the ground instead of killing thousands and destroying
visible landmarks - the risk to reward ratio goes way down, and the
terrorists will look elsewhere for targets. 

Ken Peterson
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