[ RadSafe ] bakscatter x-ray

Thu Nov 18 00:13:31 CST 2010

While all this talk of civil liberties is fine, I really don't think that
wearing a plastic athletic cup will do anything except force the TSA people
to get even more intimate with your "junk"......
As for painting myself with pepto-bismol..... no thanks.

Next time I fly, I will just calmly take the scan and continue to my
destination........

And if a TSA lackey gets a kick out of an image of my body, poor guy......

Doug 

PS: funny story from my past (in the early '80s), when working in the London
HQ of Schlumberger Europe, one of my responsibilities was evaluating whether
the RF field of offshore platforms' Troposcatter antennas could induce
sufficient current in our blasting caps to detonate the explosives we used
to perforate oil wells. And I also gave talks to the oil companies on the
dangers of RF fields on oilfield explosies. I had to fly to Aberdeen to meet
with the management of one of the N Sea operators and was carrying a
briefcase full of dummy explosives to show them what we used on their rigs.
So I decided that it would be wise to advise the screener what I was
carrying........
The screener asked me to step aside, and within a minute, three very large,
scary dudes asked me to follow them to a little back room, where they
examined my "samples" and grilled me on why I was carrying them, and my
entire life history..... And what caught their attention was that I had been
brought up a Catholic in Northern Ireland........... (remember that Britain
was in the middle of the IRA terrorist campaign.....). They phoned by boss
to get confirmation of my trip, they phoned the manager of the oil company
to verify that I had a meeting with them the next day and finally decided I
could fly. But they were unhappy about my carrying the "suspicious articles"
onto the plane. So they called the captain of the plane and asked him his
opinion. He said "give them to me, I will keep them with me on the flight
and give them back when we land......"

I wonder what would happen to me if I tried the same stunt today, flying out
of any US airports.....????

Doug Aitken
QHSE Advisor, Schlumberger D&M Operations Support
Cell Phone: 713-562-8585
(alternate e-mail: doug.aitken at slb.com )
Mail: c/o Therese Wigzell,
Schlumberger,
Drilling & Measurements HQ,
300 Schlumberger Drive, MD15,
Sugar Land, Texas 77478

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Terry
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 8:09 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] bakscatter x-ray

I am already working on that today. We are x-raying pepto bismo to see if we
can recommend painting everyone's underwear pink. Should work as a temporary
tattoo as well without needing to dip into lab chemicals. It is always
better to screw with TSA with over the counter products.  

The ultra strength has over 500 mg of Bi subsalicylate per 15 ml. 

Our other suggestion is going to be to wear an athletic cup, a 1/4 inch of
ABS plastic should let you walk through the metal detectors, yet still play
havoc with the backscatter machines. 

I think that our measurements are looking good. We will be preparing our
website for recommendations shortly.

No concern on our part about the radiation, just the civil liberties. 

Jeff

Jeff Terry
Asst. Professor of Physics
Life Science Bldg Rm 166
Illinois Institute of Technology
3101 S. Dearborn St. 
Chicago IL 60616
630-252-9708
terryj at iit.edu

On Nov 17, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Cary Renquist wrote:

> 
> I took a quick look at one of the papers that they cite for dose per 
> scan data... The paper was by some researchers at John Hopkins U.
> 
> (Been a long time since I have played with x-rays and I have never 
> dealt with 50 kVp x-rays) Their list of equipment for dose measurement 
> was a large ion chamber
> (1800 cm^3 volume) and a Thermo Sci. (Bicron) micro-rem survey meter.
> Neither of those seem especially appropriate for rigorously 
> characterizing the dose from such a low energy x-ray source.
> Particularly where the concern might be entrance dose.
> 
> As I indicated above, I took a really quick look -- haven't read the 
> experimental protocol/analysis or any of the other papers that are 
> available.
> They can be downloaded from the TSA site: TSA Electronic reading room 
> http://j.mp/92qzyT
> 
> Probably a good read for my flight back home for Thanksgiving...
> (perhaps I should grab some heavy metal carrier solution from the lab
> (bismuth?/barium?) and paint a smiley face on my skin)
> 
> Best regards,
> Cary
> 
> ---
> Cary Renquist
> cary.renquist at ezag.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Brennan, 
> Mike
> (DOH)
> Sent: Tuesday, 16 November 2010 08:53
> To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] bakscatter x-ray
> 
> X-ray isn't my corner of the rad world, but the more I think about the "
> The majority of their energy is delivered to the skin and the 
> underlying tissue. Thus, while the dose would be safe if it were 
> distributed throughout the volume of the entire body, the dose to the 
> skin may be dangerously high." Statement, the less sense it makes to 
> me.  It seems to me that for any x-ray the majority of the absorption 
> is in first dense material it encounters; the skin.  It also seems to 
> me that if one set up detectors to collect and process the backscatter 
> from a diagnostic x-ray procedure, you could image the target's skin 
> through their clothing (though this would be far more difficult than 
> just asking them to take it off).  Unless someone can point out where I am
wrong
> (and I well might be), it seems that this objection is without merit.   
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Brennan, 
> Mike
> (DOH)
> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 4:05 PM
> To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] bakscatter xray
> 
> If the majority of the energy is delivered to the skin, then wouldn't 
> it follow that the majority of THAT energy is delivered to the outer 
> layer or the skin; the layer of dead skin cells?  If the claim is that 
> the radiation penetrates the dead layer, but is then deposited in the 
> living tissue, I would think that there should be some support for that.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of conrad 
> sherman
> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 6:57 PM
> To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] bakscatter xray
> 
> here is the letter from ucsf and response
> 
> LETTER OF CONCERN
> 
> ...Snip.....
> 
> (28keV).The majority of their energy is delivered to the skin and the 
> Underlying tissue. Thus, while the dose would be safe if it were 
> distributed throughout the volume of the entire body, the dose to the 
> skin may be dangerously high.
> 
> ....Snip....
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