[ RadSafe ] Keeping an open mind Are we keeping an open mind?

Mon Oct 18 20:46:08 CDT 2010

Here's an extended version of the graph:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vostok_420ky_4curves_insolation.jpg

The measurements for the last 150,000 years on CO2, CH4, temperature and O18 are 
strongly guided by the Earth's Milankovitch cycles (climatic changes produced by 
changes in the earth's eccentricity, axial tilt, etc) I find it completely false 
to asume that CO2 increases temperature just because they go hand in hand in 
some curtailed chart, while its clear that they are both moved by some much more 
powerful force.

By the way, I support nuclear power, but as someone said before, I'm not willing 
to use carbon emissions as an argument if I don't belive it to be true.

I see in you a group of thinking people, so please if you can prove me wrong, 
show me my mistake.

Emilio Martinez, 
Math Student

________________________________
De:Jess Addis <ajess at clemson.edu>
Para:The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List 
<radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Enviado: lunes, 18 de octubre, 2010 14:36:53
Asunto: Re: [ RadSafe ] Keeping an open mind  Are we keeping an open mind?

If you have time to read a little and really care for an explanation of the
lag time and probable cause for the initiation of the warming cycles this
article is one place to start.  It's climate science from people who really
are climate scientist.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/04/the-lag-between-temp-a
nd-co2/  

The letter at the end of the article is also interesting and succinct.

Of course if one's mind is already made and maybe takes for granted that
hard working ethical scientist are all really just frauds spewing huge loads
of BS from universities, government agencies, and scientific bodies
.....well, it would be a waste of one's time.  

And remember, "chickens do not lay eggs, because they have been observed to
hatch from them".  Love that one.

Jess Addis, RSO
Clemson U.

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Hardeman
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 11:22 AM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Keeping an open mind Are we keeping an open mind?

To all --

All of us, whether climate scientists or not (and I assume that most of us
on this list are NOT) should be astute enough scientifically to recognize
that correlation does not imply causation. While it may be true that levels
of CO2 in the atmosphere are rising, and it may also be true that the global
climate is changing (as it has done continually since the formation of the
planet) that doesn't mean that one "causes" the other.

I remember a presentation at Georgia Tech several years ago by a climate
scientist who looked at the available info, including pre-historic info re:
carbon levels and global temperatures -- however derived. As I recall, the
data appear to support the thought that levels of CO2 in the atmosphere
"follow" rises in global temperature by tens to hundreds of years --
although if you plot them on time scales of hundreds of thousands of years,
the curves appear to be coincident.

Jim Hardeman

>>> <garyi at trinityphysics.com> 10/18/2010 10:22 >>>
Three words for you, Parthasarathy, "...hide the decline."

That should be enough to make anyone very sceptical, but it is just the tip
of the melting iceberg.  As far as your comments go, you have commited a
sin, and a pretty serious one
too: the fallacy of appealing to authority.  

You don't need a climate scientist to evaluate charges of fraud.  Again: the
question is NOT how much or why temperatures are changing.  The question is
did Mann et al fake temperatures, suppress conflicting scholarship, and then
destroy their data when they could no longer hide what they were doing.  The
evidence is widely available and overwhelmingly damning.  

Not that it should matter, but the Royal Society has just been forced by its
membership to
backtrack:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1316469/Royal-Society-issues-
new-climate-
change-guide-admits-uncertainties.html

Here's a snippet from the article:
    'The Royal Society now also agrees with the GWPF that the warming trend
of
    the 1980s and 90s has come to a halt in the last 10 years.

    'In their old guide, the Royal Society demanded that governments should
take "urgent 
    steps" to cut CO2 emissions "as much and as fast as possible." This
political activism 
    has now been replaced by a more sober assessment of the scientific
evidence and 
    ongoing climate debates.

    'If this voice of moderation had been the Royal Society's position all
along, its 
    message to Government would have been more restrained and Britain's
unilateral 
    climate policy would not be out of sync with the rest of the world.'

Focus on the evidence of fraud, not on the evidence of warming.  If you find
the evidence of fraud compelling, as I do, then the inescapable corollary is
that a hugh load of BS is spewing from the involved universities, government
agencies, and scientific bodies.  Talk about an environmental problem!

-Gary Isenhower

On 17 Oct 2010 at 1:37, parthasarathy k s wrote:

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] 

Dear Dr Gary Isenhower,

From the discussions on the climate change issue by a few members of the
list, I got the impression that most of those who contributed their views
were not keeping an open mind. My knowledge of the field is limited. In such
instances I tried to look for the views of scholarly bodies. I am aware of
the controversies surrounding the IPPC. It appears to me that there is some
vested interest in some groups of individuals.

There were comments made on the views of APS. But the National Academy of
Sciences seems to support broadly the conclusions of IPPC. The British Royal
Society has come out with a summary of its observations on climate science. 

It concludes thus: 

"There is strong evidence that changes in greenhouse gas concentrations due
to human activity are the dominant cause of the global warming that has
taken place over the last half century. This warming trend is expected to
continue as are changes in precipitation over the long term in many regions.
Further and more rapid increases in sea level are likely which will have
profound implications for coastal communities and ecosystems."

The report ends with the following:

..........."Like many important decisions, policy choices about climate
change have to be made in the absence of perfect knowledge. Even if the
remaining uncertainties were substantially resolved, the wide variety of
interests, cultures and beliefs in society would make consensus about such
choices difficult to achieve. However, the potential impacts of climate
change are sufficiently serious that important decisions will need to be
made.
Climate science - including the substantial body of knowledge that is
already well established, and the results of future research - is the
essential basis for future climate projections and planning, and must be a
vital component of public reasoning in this complex and challenging
area."....

[Royal Society Climate change: a summary of the science .September 2010].

This report is available at

http://royalsociety.org/climate-change-summary-of-science/ 

I find it extremely difficult to believe that every scholarly body has
vested interest in the field. I am conscious of the fact that I belong to a
minority in the list. I  am sure that there are many in the list who likes
to remain silent. 

I personally believe that there is no need for supporting nuclear power for
its green-house reducing attributes.

regards
Parthasarathy

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