[ RadSafe ] FW: Reporter's question about lower limitsofdetection (BUSBY)

Mon Aug 8 15:34:42 CDT 2011

What a rational post. 

Jeff

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2011, at 3:20 PM, Felipe Gaitan <gaitan at impulsedevices.com> wrote:

> So do I. Just because a person is antinuclear or has a "shady" background doesn't justify being rude or condescending. Or that any data he/she presents is not even worth considering.  
> 
> Ad hominem arguments should simply not be allowed on a list made up of scientists.  Perhaps the moderator could send a clear definition of this type of argument and several examples.  
> 
> Aren't we scientists supposed to be setting an example of rational discussion and decision making for the rest of the word?
> 
> Felipe Gaitan 
> 
> 
> On Aug 8, 2011, at 11:56 AM, Jess Addis wrote:
> 
>> I do generally concur with your opinion Joel.
>> 
>> Larry Addis, 
>> Clemson University
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
>> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Baumbaugh, Joel T
>> CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-PACIFIC, 55360
>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 1:42 PM
>> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList; The
>> International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List; Richard D.
>> Urban Jr.
>> Cc: Busby, Chris
>> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] FW: Reporter's question about lower
>> limitsofdetection (BUSBY)
>> 
>> Please, please, please.  I am sick and tired of reading all of these (not
>> so) thinly veiled attacks against each other.  Can't you PLEASE take them
>> off-line so that the rest of us don't have to read them?  Even though I stop
>> reading after the second or third line (once I realize what I'm reading)
>> they're still annoying, irritating and IMHO, quite childish.
>> 
>> RADSAFE didn't used to be this way.  I'm seriously thinking about
>> unsubscribing.  Even though I've been a subscriber way back to the Melissa
>> (as moderator) days. I still read some interesting posts - but the constant
>> negativity and bickering is wearing me down...
>> 
>> PLEASE STOP!  All of you! This is not the way that RADSAFE should be.
>> We're supposed to help each other and exchange ideas (and opinions), but not
>> in a negative way...
>> 
>> Joel Baumbaugh
>> ...and yes, this is my own opinion.... I hope that you agree with me.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
>> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of
>> franz.schoenhofer at chello.at
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] FW: Reporter's question about lower
>> limitsofdetection (BUSBY)
>> 
>> A saying in German is "Attack is the best defense". I would be surprised
>> if this proverb  did not exist in other languages. Chris Busby actually
>> uses it in practice. 
>> 
>> You claim that some at RADSAFE who question your expertise are "rude",
>> but what you provide is much more than rude. You qualify us as complete
>> idiots. 
>> 
>> You write about "Jap cars", which is to my knowledge an unacceptable and
>> offending expression for "Japanese cars". There is an absolutely
>> unacceptable similar expression in German, no paper and no person would
>> ever think of using it. 
>> 
>> I have already recommended that you should take a break and learn about
>> radioactivity (and other topics like statistics) for a few years before
>> returning to RADSAFE.
>> 
>> I cannot help you if you think that I am rude pointing to all your
>> shortcomings, the fundamental flaws of your claims, your financial
>> interests, your more than questionable connections to such dubious and
>> mock organisations like "Green Audit", the ECRR (or similar)  with all
>> those questionable and dubious people like Schmitz-Feuerhake or Rosalie
>> Bertell, the former one having been found guilty to falsify data in
>> order to get the results she wanted to have. 
>> 
>> A nonscientific, but a comment on your conduct. I might be wrong, but I
>> have never experienced on RADSAFE that I was called "Mr. Franz". Is this
>> another attempt of you to ridicule me? I know "Franz" - 99% usual on
>> RADSAFE and also used by my many British friends and collegues, I know
>> "Mr. Schoenhofer" in very few mails on RADSAFE, mails in German are
>> increasingly using "Franz", the other and official ones use "Herr
>> Schoenhofer" and very few use my other titles like "Ministerialrat" -
>> they are from those with whom I use to joke about our official titles.
>> However I know from experience that in Arab and other countries the
>> first name is used to characterize a person, but you seem to be a
>> British citizen, though you use US units for radioactivity matters. 
>> 
>> Going back to your claim, that uncertainties and assumptions are a part
>> of science I agree in principle. But as in your case, where
>> uncertainties exceed by far the measurement results or make them so
>> uncertain that no conclusions can be drawn,  I cannot understand, how
>> you can calculate doses to the population. (Have you really?)
>> 
>> You are clearly not entitled to judge whether people on RADSAFE
>> (including me) are SCIENTISTS. You seem not to be - at least not on the
>> topic of radioactivity. How do you dare to make such a comment? How do
>> you dare to call people who do not share your queer opinions as
>> "idiots"? Somebody like you cannot insult me. I do not recommend the
>> list owner to  ban you from the list, because I regard it as important
>> for us SCIENTISTS to get to know the opinions of persons like you.
>> 
>> No regards, Mr. Chris!
>> 
>> Franz, Mr. Franz, Herr Schoenhofer, Mr. Schoenhofer, Herr Ministerialrat
>> Dr. Franz Schoenhofer bla, bla, bla
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---- "Busby schrieb:
>>> 
>>> Dear Radmax,
>>> Is that how you see yourself? Amazing!
>>> Most of physics is done with estimates and assumptions, but maybe you
>> have not ever done any real physics. You then have a calculation result
>> with levels of uncertainty which you allow for. Otherwise most of
>> physics cannot be done. What we do know is the activity in Cs137 and
>> Cs134 of the filters. The cars were driven for 150km before the filters
>> were removed. The engine cc was 600cc (these are small engines that the
>> Jap cars use). The assumption is that the mean rpm was 2500. This is a
>> very conservative assumption as these were commuter cars. So the real
>> value is likely to be higher. This would make the activity higher.
>> Perhaps you know that a 4 stroke engine transfers its cc worth of air
>> every 2 revolutions. As to the 50% trapping assumption,this ia also
>> likely to be conservative. So if there is any error the real value will
>> be higher. 
>>> You, and Mr Franz, and a few others are so appallingly rude it is very
>> difficult to deal with you as if you were scientists and not ignorant
>> rednecks in some cheap bar. I thought the radsafe list was a discussion
>> arena not some internet blog where idiots insult each other. Try to
>> remain civil.
>>> Best regards
>>> Chris Busby
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Richard D. Urban
>> Jr.
>>> Sent: Sun 07/08/2011 20:24
>>> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
>> List
>>> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] FW: Reporter's question about lower limits of
>> 
>>> detection (BUSBY)
>>> 
>>> And just how did you calculate that volume... RPM's???  Were you
>> driving with the owners of these cars?  What gear were they in?  What
>> speed were they driving?  Correct tuning or improper air-fuel mixture?
>> Uphill, Downhill, standing still or moving slowly in traffic/debris
>> fields, A/C on or off.. ?  Distance's from Fuku, time after event,
>> direction to plume...?  How many thousands of cubic meters of air had
>> entered these filters PRIOR to Fuku ???
>>> 
>>> 50% eff but not 'sure', Really?  You always seem to 'ASSUME' alot.  
>>> 
>>> Your numbers, just as the rest of your drivel, is again more
>> ABSOLUTLEY CHERRY PICKED B.S.   
>>> 
>>> Any REAL scientist would not publish anything with your levels of
>> uncertainty.
>>> 
>>> Please just go away.  Don't come back until you have something
>> actually 'quantifiable'.
>>> 
>>> Radmax
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 
>>> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and 
>>> understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: 
>>> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
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>>> visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
>> 
>> --
>> Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
>> Habicherg. 31/7
>> A-1160 Vienna
>> Austria
>> mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
> D. Felipe Gaitan, Ph.D.
> Chief Research Scientist
> Impulse Devices, Inc.
> 13366 Grass Valley Av.  Unit H
> Grass Valley, CA  95945
> Phone: 530-273-6500 Ext. 112
> Fax:  530-273-6566
> email: gaitan at impulsedevices.com
> website: http://impulsedevices.com
> 
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