[ RadSafe ] Nonsense Claim: by Mangano: RE: 14, 000 US Deaths Linked to Radiation Leaks at Damaged Fukushima Nuclear Reactor in Japan

Tue Dec 20 15:12:32 CST 2011

Ok - I'll withdraw the comment re SI units.  I recall reading that it 
was risk based many years back when carefully studying ICRU 51 and 60 
where the special units are defined.

I just scanned over those two documents very quickly and couldn't find 
what I recall reading then - and so I have to withdraw those comments.

What I did find fully supported your findings.

I need to go over my notes from those years ago and retrace my steps.

I still maintain that LNTH is responsible for these controversies.

On 12/20/2011 12:40 PM, Greg Landry wrote:
> Good afternoon,
>
> OK, I went back to my Shultis and Faw sheilding text to verify this, although I didn't really need to.
>
> Sv = Gy * Ave QF
>
> Gy is strictly absorbed dose
>
> Sv is equivalent dose
>
> Ave QF is determined by RBE factors determined for each radiation type. These RBE factors based on observed biological damage determined via experiment and normalizes damage of non-photon radiations to that of photons.  This is basically how the rem is handled as well if I recall.  I guess I'm not seeing the risk basis of the definition. If there *is* a risk basis, then certainly it must apply to the rem as well.
>
> Best regards,
> Greg Landry, CHP
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ted de Castro<tdc at xrayted.com>
>> Sent: Dec 20, 2011 12:08 PM
>> To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List"<radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Nonsense Claim: by Mangano: RE: 14, 000 US Deaths Linked to Radiation Leaks at Damaged Fukushima Nuclear Reactor in Japan
>>
>> The SI DOSE unit is RISK BASED by definition (look it up) - not physics
>> based and are thus not measurable.  Also therefore to use the SI dose
>> unit is to declare and define a risk - as small a number as you wish all
>> the way down to zero.  That's LNTH and exceeds our actual understanding
>> of what risks really are.
>>
>> For CONVENIENCE and practicality we just take readings on a scale so
>> annotated and/or move a decimal point - but this is a shortcut to try to
>> actually use an unworkable unit.
>>
>> becquerels are a physical unit,
>> Coulombs (rads in air) are also,
>> grays .... I'm not so sure,
>> BUT Sieverts ARE risk based by definition and not just rem with a
>> decimal point moved - although that is how they are used in practice.
>> But then back in the old days few people used RAD and REM correctly -
>> even regulations were written using the wrong units.
>>
>> On 12/20/2011 9:11 AM, Brennan, Mike (DOH) wrote:
>>> I understand and am sympathetic towards your criticism of Linear No
>>> Threshold, but I am unsure of how SI units are to blame.  While I still
>>> think in curies, I acknowledge becquerels are an easier to explain unit.
>>> Sieverts are just rem with the decimal place moved.  Same with grays and
>>> rads.
>>>
>>> I am not saying you are incorrect; I am just saying I don't understand
>>> what you are getting at.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
>>> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Ted de Castro
>>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 11:15 PM
>>> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Nonsense Claim: by Mangano: RE: 14, 000 US
>>> Deaths Linked to Radiation Leaks at Damaged Fukushima Nuclear Reactor in
>>> Japan
>>>
>>> You realize of course that this is here to stay and why?
>>>
>>> Two things:
>>>
>>> LNTH and
>>> SI units!
>>>
>>> SI units are proclaimed to be RISK BASED and are a linear units
>>> enumerated all the way down to 0.  So like 1984's Newspeak - SI units
>>> make it impossible to speak anything other than LNTH - thus making a
>>> hypothesis - law!
>>>
>>> It kinda hard of blame anyone for using the units as prescribed -
>>> ridiculous as it may be.
>>>
>>> On 12/19/2011 9:07 PM, Roger Helbig wrote:
>>>> The poster (author) of this piece's e-mail is britliggett[@]gmail
>>>> dot.com - her personal page is at http://www.britliggett.com/writing
>>>> and that links back to the article.  She seems to be someone with an
>>>> interest in Green things, no expertise in radiation and perhaps easily
>>>> baffled by Mangano's alleged academic credentials.  I am sure that she
>>>> has no idea of Mangano's past reputation for being a prominent
>>>> non-scientist.
>>>>
>>>> The publication was established by and I would seriously question them
>>>> about why this even appears here -  the writer has written pieces for
>>>> them in the past and has experience doing a video documentary of craft
>>>> beer production.
>>>>
>>>> Inhabitat was started by NYC designer Jill Fehrenbacher (Twitter
>>>> @JillFehr) as a forum for investigating emerging trends in product,
>>>> interior, and architectural design. Managing Editor Mike Chino and
>>>> Senior Editor Yuka Yoneda lead the editorial team
>>>>
>>>> Roger Helbig
>>>> _______________________________________________
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