[ RadSafe ] body dose - witholding data

Fri Feb 25 13:55:27 CST 2011

Mark:

Per your reply:

It looks like your dates in 1964,1967--your Dad had received 14% of the
maximum permissible body burden at that time (1967).

The annual dose to the lungs was 27% of the Radiation Protection
Standard at that time.

I do not know whether any insoluble PU/AM 241 deposited in the lung
could be removed nor how much damage has occurred to your Dad since the
time that the substance was deposited in the lung.

The health standards in the 1960's were much more liberal than they are
now (2011).

The mindset now among Radiation Safety Officers regarding radiation
exposure seems to be "As Low As Reasonably Achievable" (ALARA).

I hope that my responses helped to answer some of your questions about
the wording.

John Price 

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Mark S. Sasser
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 1:45 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] body dose - witholding data

I have been reviewing some letters my father had from DOE handford just
before he retried in 1987 below is some of the wording. I need some help
with this please.

Routine bio assay Measurement Results
the results of the subject individual's routine urine measurement in
1987 are 
consistent with those expectedfrom the previously evaluated intakes that
occured 

in 1964 ,1966,1967.
as reported in referenced correspondence, it is estimated that the
individual 
has a total systemic deposition of plutonium and americium of 14% of the
maximum 

permissible body burden in ICRP#2. in Addition, it is estimated that the

resulting annual dose to the lung for 1987 from intake is 27% of DOE
Radiation 
Protection Standard.
  below all this the paper is written on the bottom this information has
not 
been reported to the individual
by PNL personnel DOSIMETRY.
in 1964 it was confirmed the materiel in the chest is being in the lung
. it 
appears to be very insoluble component that occurred on may 15 ,1964.

they tracked this since that date and did not inform him of the problem
until a 
date when documents were declassified 

Mark S.Sasser

Cell Phone 717 926 5870

 There is no security on this earth. Only opportunity.
 At the end of the universe lies the beginning of vengeance

----- Original Message ----
From: "Price, John Jr - OSHA" <PriceJr.John at dol.gov>
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList 
<radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Sent: Fri, February 25, 2011 11:39:29 AM
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] body dose - witholding data

I understand that the decontamination contractor eventually put multiple
coats of paint upon those surfaces to reduce the radiation to a level
that would permit worker entry to remove all room equipment. The photos
that I have in my book indicate that the room was eventually wrapped in
some type of material in an attempt to minimize the spread of the
contamination that you referred to.

John Price 

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Harry Reynolds
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 1:34 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] body dose - witholding data

I believe those "infinity rooms" referred to alpha surface contamination
levels too high to quantify with instruments available at the time.  It
was a situation similar to the beta contamination levels at power plants
that had to be measured in mRad/hr or Rad/hr.  The only real problems
were with controlling the spread of the contamination and controlling
the airborne radioactivity levels.  Perhaps someone closer the action of
RFETS can comment further. 

Harry Reynolds
ASRSO
ENERGYSOLUTIONS
801-649-2219 Desk
801-349-9036 Cell
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Price, John Jr
- OSHA
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 12:21 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] body dose - witholding data

Dear Radsafers?

Does anyone know/remember reading about the "infinity rooms" at the
Rocky Flats Facility? Was any type of radiation survey(s) performed for
the room(s) before the site was demolished in the late 1990's/early
2000's?

I have a book known as "Killing our own" that describes working
conditions at the rocky flats facility from 1952--1996. Allegedly, the
pump room(s) where plutonium solutions were mixed was one site of the
"infinity rooms". The book however, describes those rooms but does not
mention whether any type of radiation survey was performed in the rooms
before the workplace was demolished.

Also, do any photos of the rooms exist?

Any responses to these questions would be appreciated.

Thank You,

John Price
US DOL-OSHA
Industrial Hygienist 

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Egidi, Phil
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 10:13 AM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] body dose - witholding data

It was not just DOE, secrecy of course went all the way back to War II
and the MED.  The AEC was formed in 1946, and they downplayed concerns
by the States and their own safety people as early as 1949 that there
were significant issues in uranium mines and mills.  AEC would only
allow the State and Public Health Service to collect radon samples in
mines if they did not discuss the results with the miners.(1)  It was
verified by 1951 that radon progeny were responsible for large doses to
the lungs (i.e., John Harley), yet it was not until 1967 that rules were
passed for underground uranium miners.  AEC morphed into NRC, ERDA, and
DOE later.  It is not known how many lives could have been saved if
basic ventilation measures were put in place sooner.  AEC claimed it
lacked authority over the mines, and left it for the states to handle,
and they of course did not have the expertise or resources to take that
on.  The story goes on and on and there is no time to go further here...

BTW, those regulations for underground uranium miners are still on the
MSHA books at 30 CFR 57.5005 - .5047. - ICRP 2-based limits that have
separate limits for inhalation (4 WLM/y ~= 5 rem), separate (i.e.
additional) limit for gamma (5 rem), only required to make ANNUAL
measurements for gamma, only badge workers if > 2 mR/h, no summation of
doses, and of course, no ALARA.  There is no requirement to monitor for
long-lived progeny (Pb-210 and Po-210) in ore dust, they may be
ingesting and there is no requirement for tracking.  These regs, IMHO,
do not provide equal protection to the miners as other radiation workers
get today under NRC, DOE, or State regulations based on ICRP 26/30 or 60
or 103 paradigms.  Guidance (ANSI N13.8) cited in the regulations for
making WL measurements, etc. has not been updated since 1973.  HPS does
have a group working on updating that guidance.  IAEA has updated
guidance, as does Australia and others.

As a state regulator in a materials program, we have no authority over
uranium mining.  The Atomic Energy Act is clear that the authority under
the Act "starts after removal from its place in nature."  There is some
sporadic underground uranium mining in the last few years, but it is
expected to increase at least a little since the price of uranium is
going up and the need for fuel is increasing based on world demand.

(1) Mogren, Eric.  "Warm Sands, Uranium Mill Tailings Policy in the
Atomic West".  University of New Mexico Press. 2002

Phil Egidi
CDPHE

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Mark S. Sasser
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 11:06 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] body dose

It is sad DOE was able to hide items like this I know from working nukes
we all have the right to know, and if a company try to hide something it
is very bad thing.
each night I listen to him cough for hours trying to get to sleep. 
I hear him up around midnight sitting in his chair in the living room
trying to get his lungs clear.
we all know PU and 241am is bad to keep in your body one year his dose
report went up in the late 70's to his lungs..
We both worked with guys who were never allowed in rad zones for life do
to over exposures, two men I worked with had tank go critical it set off
the ARMs at the badge house 5 miles away. they both revived life dose
for neutron. I worked on the cleanup in 76 after the line blew apart and
McClusky got the big uptake he could peg a poppy probe with a tear drop
. we lost the entire floor, it was so bad we ended up painting the floor
white and sealing the room off, but as it is I could go on and on with
it even in the tank farms but heck if it were not for handford the war
would have went on for a long time. 

thank you and have a nice night

Mark S.Sasser

Cell Phone 717 926 5870

There is no security on this earth. Only opportunity.
At the end of the universe lies the beginning of vengeance

----- Original Message ----
From: "Perle, Sandy" <SPerle at mirion.com>
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
<radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 9:47:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] body dose

Hi Mark,

I expect that others on this list will be able to provide you detailed
guidance as to what the data you have provided, as well as any other
detailed information that you may have, with appropriate
recommendations, more likely in off-line communication. It appears from
your comments that your father was not provided any real information as
to what occurred or what the tracking information meant until
significant time had passed.
This is not unlike other instances well documented over the past 50
years or so. It is unfortunate but apparently very common.

I hope that others can provide you with the support and information that
you are seeking.

Regards,

Sandy

-----------------------------------
Sander C. Perle
President
Mirion Technologies
Dosimetry Services Division
2652 McGaw Avenue
Irvine, CA 92614

+1 (949) 296-2306 (Office)
+1 (949) 296-1130 (Fax)

Mirion Technologies: http://www.mirion.com/

On 2/24/11 8:28 PM, "Mark S. Sasser" <duke99301 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> I have been reviewing some letters my father had from DOE handford 
>just before he retried in 1987 below is some of the wording. I need 
>some help with this please.
>
>
>Routine bio assay Measurement Results
>the results of the subject individual's routine urine measurement in
>1987 are consistent with those expectedfrom the previously evaluated 
>intakes that occured in 1964 ,1966,1967.
>as reported in referenced correspondence, it is estimated that the 
>individual has a total systemic deposition of plutonium and americium 
>of 14% of the maximum permissible body burden in ICRP#2. in Addition, 
>it is estimated that the resulting annual dose to the lung for 1987 
>from intake is 27% of DOE Radiation Protection Standard.
>  below all this the paper is written on the bottom this information 
>has not been reported to the individual by PNL personnel DOSIMETRY.
>in 1964 it was confirmed the materiel in the chest is being in the lung
.
>it
>appears to be very insoluble component that occurred on may 15 ,1964.
>
>they tracked this since that date and did not inform him of the problem

>until a date when documents were declassified
>
>
>
>in 1986 he was still showing 4100mrem(27% of the standard ). to his
lung.
>
>my father now 84 years old and we do not know what we should do about 
>what is in his lungs? My question is has anyone had to deal with DOE on

>this subject and what could be done about it?
>thank you for your time
>
>
>
>
>Mark S.Sasser
>Safety Manger
>Alara Eng.
>
>
>
>
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