[ RadSafe ] Sr-90 in milk (re-named)

Tue Jun 7 09:49:53 CDT 2011

Thanks, Edmond. 

My reasoning is based on the well known curve (we call it the double camel hump). According to this the concentrations of Sr-90 and Sr-89 must be initially (almost) equal. Of course there will be a difference when a nuclear reactor has operated for a while because of the different half lives. Nuclear explosions are not so much different. What I know for sure from the Chernobyl accident is, that the activity concentrations we found in precipitation, aerosols etc. was initially about equal. I described the problems to discern Sr-89 and Sr-90. I would expect that Sr-89 might be less from emissions after weeks or months after the NPP was shut down. I know that some "experts" take this and claimed I-131 emissions as a proof that there is still a chain reaction going on in the reactor.

To my knowledge there is no stable Strontium or Yttrium in a reactor. So what should be the source?

Thanks for some years of reasonable discussion at RADSAFE and a few personal meetings!

Best regards,

Franz
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First I would like to set those straight who assumed the there is no 
> strontium-89 without strontium-90.  I was referring to fission products that 
> are produced in reactors and from previous above ground tests.  The 
> references I was talking about was that which leaked out of the Reactors 
> from Japan.
> The Strontium-89 that is produced in reactors is from stable Strontium or 
> Yttrium.  It has been some time since I was involved that I don't wish to 
> speculate, but will get back to you.
> 
> Ed Baratta
> edmond0033 at comcast.net
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at
> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 7:18 AM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList ; 
> The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
> Cc: Edmond Baratta ; Glenn R. Marshall
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Sr-90 in milk (re-named)
> 
> Thanks Edmond for this comment: Could you please tell me the nuclear 
> reactions which would result in the acceptable Sr-90-"free" result? I am 
> still eager to learn in spite of my age.
> 
> I do not know, what is going on in "the world", but in Austria there has 
> come a new generation of radiochemists, who are not only well trained, but 
> also have the possibility of doing good radiochemical work. I envy them, 
> because 20 or 30 years ago the world wide trend was reversed to do 
> gamma-spectrometry, though the radionuclides of concern were beta emitters 
> and especially in the case of natural radioactivity alpha emitters. But it 
> was so convenient to put a (possible unprocessed) sample on top of a 
> germanium detector, press a button and let the rest be done by the MCA and 
> the computer.
> 
> The concerns in radiation protection based on gamma-emitting radionuclides 
> are at least in environmental protection almost obsolete.
> The radiological concern is now on beta and even  more alpha emitters. But 
> as described above, they are much more difficult to be measured. 
> "Authorities" want for their reports high numbers of analysis - so still 
> useless gamma-measurements are produced by the hundreds or thousands.
> 
> 500 years ago I might have been burnt at the stake as being heretic - thanks 
> to the progress of the human kind!!
> 
> Franz
> 
> ---- Edmond Baratta <edmond0033 at comcast.net> schrieb:
> > Franz:
> >
> > Strontium-89 is also reactor produced.  Depending upon the purity of
> > Yttrium, some Strontium-90 can be produced.  It is used for bone therapy 
> > in
> > cancer patients.  It has been produced by both the United Kingdom and
> > Russia.  Several radiopharmaceutical firms obtain it from them and sell it
> > in the USA.  I have never seen strontium-89 in fission products without
> > Strontium-90.  Maybe they are analyzing for total radio-strontium and
> > claiming Strontium-89.
> >
> > Ed Baratta
> >
> > edmond0033 at comcast.net
> >
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: Busby, Chris
> > Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 1:19 AM
> > To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List ;
> > The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
> > Cc: Glenn R. Marshall
> > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Sr-90 in milk (re-named)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of
> > franz.schoenhofer at chello.at
> > Sent: Fri 6/3/2011 9:02 PM
> > To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
> > Cc: Glenn R. Marshall
> > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Sr-90 in milk (re-named)
> >
> > Sorry Glenn, you are wrong.
> >
> > Sr-89 is a fission product, it is also a pure beta emitter like Sr-90. So 
> > it
> > causes problems when determining Sr-90 in fresh fission products and
> > especially in the first days after the Chernobyl accident it caused
> > problems, because many person doing measurements did not know it or simply
> > neglected it, producing much to high valures for Sr-90. Measurement is not
> > easy, in most traditional methods radiochemical separation is necessary 
> > (it
> > is anyway, but not to this extent like in the presence of Sr-89). Also 
> > short
> > lived yttrium isotopes pose a problem and I know of several cases where
> > wrong results for Sr-90 were caused because of the wrong assumption that
> > this other Y-isotope was Y-90 in equilibrium with Sr-90.
> >
> > All these caveats might  also be applicable to the messages about Sr-90 
> > and
> > Sr-89 from Japan. One would have to know the details of the methods used.
> >
> > Sr-89 is used for what you described, but it is produced by some 
> > accelerator
> > reaction - you would not be able to separate Sr-89 from Sr-90 produced by
> > nuclear fission - or would you?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Franz
> >
> > ---- "Glenn R. Marshall" <GRMarshall at philotechnics.com> schrieb:
> > > Sr-89 is predominantly a medical radionuclide, whereas Sr-90 
> > > predominantly
> > > exists as a fission product.  I believe its primary use is treatment of
> > > bone cancer.
> > >
> > > With increased testing for every radionuclide on the chart, it's not
> > > surprising traces of oddball species pop up.
> > >
> > > Glenn
> > > (865) 257-2760
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> > > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Edmond Baratta
> > > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 1:28 PM
> > > To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList;
> > > The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Sr-90 in milk (re-named)
> > >
> > > How can you have Sr-89, without Sr-90??
> > >
> > > Ed Baratta
> > > edmond0033 at comcast.net
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Steven Dapra
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 8:07 PM
> > > To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> > > Subject: [ RadSafe ] Sr-90 in milk (re-named)
> > >
> > > June 1
> > >
> > >          A trace.  Well, my goodness, it sounds like time to panic. 
> > > (You
> > > go first, Chris, and show us how it's done.)
> > >
> > > Steven Dapra
> > >
> > >
> > > At 09:41 AM 6/1/2011, you wrote:
> > > >May 31
> > > >
> > > >          Has any Sr-90 been measured in milk in Hawaii?
> > > >
> > > >Steven Dapra
> > > >
> > > >No Sr-90, but a trace of Sr-89
> > > >
> > > >http://www.epa.gov/japan2011/docs/rert/RadNet-Sr-Milk-Public-Release-5-
> > > >24-2011.pdf
> > > >
> > > >That was from early April.  Someday we may get more data.
> > > >
> > > >Tony Harrison, MSPH
> > > >Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment Laboratory
> > > >Services Division
> > > >303-692-3046
> > >
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> > --
> > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
> > Habicherg. 31/7
> > A-1160 Vienna
> > Austria
> > mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
> >
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> >
> > Sr89 is produced in nuclear explosions
> >
> > C
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> 
> --
> Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
> Habicherg. 31/7
> A-1160 Vienna
> Austria
> mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
> 

--
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227