[ RadSafe ] Japanese Reactors

Sat Mar 12 13:10:12 CST 2011

Three of the reactors were in outage during the event. While the one with the worst conditions has been the focus, I believe that all of the reactors have suffered loss of coolant and at least 5 emergencies have been declared. 

The one in the worst shape is the oldest reactor on the site. Designs always get better with time so it is not surprising that it is in the most trouble. 
New designs likely would have survived. Of course, we don't have any of those in operation. 

I still think that flooding with sea water should have been immediately attempted. 

<Speculation> I think that they were trying to save the reactor. </Speculation> 

No offense intended, could be we have different definitions of "last ditch."

To me "last ditch" implies very unlikely to work. I will be very surprised if flooding with sea water fails. 

I use "last ditch" as "Hail Mary" or "Shot in the Dark." I don't think that this is in that category. 

Jeff

Jeff Terry
Asst. Professor of Physics
Life Science Bldg Rm 166
Illinois Institute of Technology
3101 S. Dearborn St. 
Chicago IL 60616
630-252-9708
terryj at iit.edu

On Mar 12, 2011, at 12:49 PM, WesVanPelt at verizon.net wrote:

> Jeff,
> 
> I would defend my characterization of "last ditch" effort in that, if it did
> not work, there is nothing more to do. It is the last, most severe, option
> to prevent core melt.
> 
> Furthermore, the other 5 reactors at the site all experienced a
> 8.4-9.1(depending upon source) magnitude earthquake and a hit by a 30 m
> tsunami, and they were OK, and not a "loss". 
> 
> I totally agree with you that it was reasonable action to take under the
> circumstances. 
> 
> Best regards,  Wes
> Wesley R. Van Pelt, PhD, CIH, CHP 
> Wesley R. Van Pelt Associates, Inc.  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Terry
> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2011 11:52 AM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Japanese Reactors
> 
> I don't think that I would call this a last ditch effort. 
> In fact, I think that it should have been done earlier. 
> 
> In my opinion, as soon as it was clear that there was a coolant issue, any
> reactor that suffered an 8.4-9.1(depending upon source) magnitude earthquake
> and a hit by a 30 m tsunami was going to be a loss. 
> 
> I would describe it as a reasonable action to take under the circumstances. 
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Jeff Terry
> Asst. Professor of Physics
> Life Science Bldg Rm 166
> Illinois Institute of Technology
> 3101 S. Dearborn St. 
> Chicago IL 60616
> 630-252-9708
> terryj at iit.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 12, 2011, at 10:22 AM, WesVanPelt at verizon.net wrote:
> 
>> They are pumping sea water and boric acid into the Unit 1 reactor!  My
> guess
>> is the hydrogen explosion disabled all of the electrical and pneumatic
>> controls for the reactor core in the containment. This is a real ad hoc
>> last-ditch procedure to prevent decay heat from melting more of the fuel
>> rods.
>> 
>> Best regards,  Wes
>> Wesley R. Van Pelt, PhD, CIH, CHP 
>> Wesley R. Van Pelt Associates, Inc.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
>> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of
> neilkeeney at aol.com
>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 10:58 PM
>> To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
>> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Japanese Reactors
>> 
>> 
>> Hey Jeff and Radsafers:
>> 
>> I would hesitate to assign any level of validity to third party data
>> delivered via CNN unless it is the person translating for the Utility
>> spokesman, the Incident Commander or a facsimile of the radiological data
>> from the HpGe analysis documenting the time, place, form and event of the
>> sample specimen.
>> 
>> Any hyperbole we originate here is likely to be established as indicative
> of
>> the opinions of the "Scientific Community".  
>> 
>> For example, if any of you have participated in a refueling shutdown for a
>> US Light Water Reactor that had experienced a pin-hole leak over the
> course
>> of the previous operating cycle, you understand that the halogen series
> will
>> likely be present upon breach of any primary system.
>> 
>> While this may be loosely considered to be 'fuel damage', you and and I
>> understand this to be a nuisance level problem relating to fuel
> warranties,
>> problems with TEDE ALARA for the workforce and so forth.  It's an
>> occupational problem that you simply have to work through as a practical
>> matter.  The Public doesn't get beyond the phrase 'fuel failure' in their
>> considerations and, of course, the media are free (it's actually a part of
>> their license) to hype these things into full blown reality-show
>> dramatizations...
>> 
>> In this instance, it's possible a RV lifted or a safety lifted somewhere
>> that yielded this as part of the isotopic mix. 
>> 
>> Prof. Lester may indeed be literally correct in asserting the presence of
>> I-131 and, actually, I just don't watch the news that much, however, I
> would
>> need the specific data on activity level and the origin of the sample
>> specimen as well as confirmatory indicators prior to adjudicating the
>> potential of core damage.
>> 
>> Besides... I'm currently in an old RV and don't have a bomb shelter... 
>> 
>> I feel great empathy for them for my fellow nuclear workers in Japan and
> I'm
>> rooting for them as I'm sure you all are; let's help them as we can. 
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Neil Keeney
>> RRPT
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jeff Terry <terryj at iit.edu>
>> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
>> <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
>> Sent: Fri, Mar 11, 2011 9:05 pm
>> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Japanese Reactors
>> 
>> 
>> Hi All, 
>> I climbed out of the bomb shelter to check out CNN.
>> Prof. Richard Lester of MIT just reported on CNN that I-131 has been
>> detected at 
>> ne of the Fukushima sites. 
>> cannot find another report confirming this.  Has anyone else seen this 
>> eported?
>> This would indicate fuel failure. 
>> 
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