[ RadSafe ] Busby and calculations

[Douglas Minnema]

Franz,

Sorry, I have to disagree, although I do not intend to get into an extended agrument.  I also have studied the history beyond the urban legends, and I have enough time in the saddle to know the difference.  Heisenberg was well known to shun experimentation, and its impact on the German program has been well documented (although I do agree that this is not the only reason Germany failed).

I'll accept your challenge to read Eco's book, but I pass along a title of my own, "Hitler's Uranium Club" by Jeremy Bernstein (1996).  That book discusses the secret recordings made during the British detention of Heisenberg and other top German nuclear scientists after the war; the tapes were finally declassified in the mid-1990s.  In this book you will find Heisenberg recognizing his own weaknesses and errors in the German efforts, and a few other interesting points.

As for Heisenberg's first pile, he went with heavy water because his efforts with graphite failed (the previously mentioned impurity problem).  Probably one of his more costly errors in the effort, because without a good demonstration he was unable to convince his sponsors that success was possible.  I would remind you that the Americans' first pile was natural uranium in graphite, but they had spent a great deal of effort learning to refine the graphite.  It was the success of that pile that convinced the American government to throw everything into the effort.
  
Take care,

Doug



>>> <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at> 05/04/11 3:47 PM >>>
Sorry, Doug,

Being somebody who has been since I was young (long, long time ago) was interested in the history of nuclear energy and therefore also on nuclear weapons, which became even deeper with my work on global contamination by nuclear weapons tests, my engagement on surveillance of radioactivity in the environment and especially during my participation in the IAEA project on the French Nuclear Tests in the South Pacific and the comparison to nuclear accidents like Chernobyl. Moreover I have some interest in more recent history.

I think that you are completely wrong.  Germany never had any real chance to build "the bomb", there was no chance to enrich uranium-235, not to talk about producing plutonium, whatever calculations they did. Furthermore the strategists of the Third Reich relied mostly on conventional warfare and were pushing new technical developments only to a small extent. The experiments conducted by the Heisenberg group were directed towards neutron multiplication by using natural uranium cubes and heavy water as a moderator. This was very well measured and not calculated. 

There is enough literature on this history available and it is not necessary to rely on "urban legends". 

Beside that comment on Heisenberg I think that the issue of development of science in the medieval ages is a very fascinating topic, especially the problems inflicted by the inquisition. Should you be more interested in it, I recommend to read the extremely interesing book "The Name of the Rose" by Umberto Eco, I know it is available in English, because I read it in English. There is also a film on it which is excellent, but of course cannot address the "scientific" and philosophical parts in detail.


Best regards,

Franz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---- Douglas Minnema <douglasm at DNFSB.GOV> schrieb:
> Steve, good observation.   It reminds me that this same tendency (calculate but not measure) was noted as part of the reason Heisenberg failed in his efforts to build a bomb for Germany.  Among other things, this led him to fail to measure the effect of impurities in graphite and lead on neutron transport, which resulted in the failure of his early criticality experiments.
> 
> Doug Minnema 
> 
> >>> Steven Dapra <sjd at swcp.com> 05/03/11 9:53 PM >>>
> May 3
> 
> 	I am currently reading a book about early modern Europe (Rice, 1970).
> 
> 	In his chapter on science and technology, the author discusses the 
> physics of the medieval scholastics, and how they went nowhere 
> because of the scholastics' limited knowledge of mathematics.  The 
> author also says, "They were disputatious, and too often preferred 
> the sophistical victory of the debate to the empirical search for 
> truth.  They calculated, but saw little need to measure."
> 
> 	"Dr. Chris Busby, another physicist . . . predicts based on his 
> calculations. . . ."
> 
> 	I don't make the news, I merely report it.
> 
> Steven Dapra
> 
> 
> REFERENCE
> 
> Rice, Eugene, F. Jr.  The Foundations of Early Modern Europe, 1460 - 
> 1559.  W.W. Norton and Co., 1970  (page 20).
> 
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