[ RadSafe ] DU not toxicologically identical to non D-U

Sun Nov 6 05:58:21 CST 2011

I think it may be the differential solubility of Thorium and Uranium. U238 decays via Th234 and since Th 234 is much less soluble this would form a mechanism for the preferential loss of the parent U238 relative to the U234 daughter of the Th/Pa series, thus giving a higher than unity U234/U238. 
No one has addressed this possibility although I did mention it to UNEP when we were measuring DU in Kosovo. UNEP used the U234/U238 ratio to defimne DU initially and got a lot of nonsense.
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Conway, Ken C.
Sent: Thu 03/11/2011 12:01
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] DU not toxicologically identical to non D-U

Another source of   similar data Is Health Physics Volume 48 Number 5
entitled Special Issue on Radioactivity in Drinking Water. (May 1985
page 564)
. "There have been many studies  of the isotopic composition of U in
natural waters which have shown that most contain more activity  from
U-234 than U-238. The U234/U238 ratio can be as high as 28/1 but usually
ranges between 1 and 3. " The stated cause is alpha recoil.

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Dan W McCarn
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 5:11 AM
To: 'The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
MailingList'
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] DU not toxicologically identical to non D-U

Dear Ahmad:

Uranium mineral species tend to leach U-234 more easily than U-238
because crystal lattice dislocation is caused by alpha recoil when U-238
decays to Th-234.  As I recall, the alpha particle has about 4-5 MeV
energy, and the imparted kinetic energy in the recoil is around 50 KeV
to the Th-234 atom.
This is sufficient to dislocate the Th-234 atom.

For this reason, when Th-234 decays to U-234 within a mineral, the U-234
is no longer tightly bound to the mineral lattice and is therefore
significantly more leachable. This feature has been well documented in
uranium deposits especially redox-controlled roll-front sandstone
deposits and in environmental geochemistry measurements. Elevated U-234
values are typical of weak-leach conditions in near-surface vadose
zones.  Likewise, elevated U-234/U-238 ratios are characteristically
present in the leading edge of roll-fronts.  Yellowcake produced from
acid in-situ-recovery (ISR) in Central Asia characteristically has an
elevated U-234/U-238 ratio caused by various geochemical conditions
encountered during mining.  This has been reported on at the IAEA in
"Downstream constraints on product specification and ISL mining methods"
by G. Capus in IAEA TECDOC-1396.

http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/te_1396_web.pdf

Note that for U-234 to reach secular equilibrium requires 1-2 million
years, so leachate containing elevated U-234/U-238 ratios likely comes
from natural mineralized sources.

I looked at the Fallujah data, and was quite surprised at how low the
total U concentrations were in soils - around 1 mg/Kg U.  Quite a bit of
the USA, Sweden and the mid-east is directly underlain by
uranium-bearing marine black shales (Kolm Shale, Chattanooga Shale,
Pierre Shale) and marine phosphorites not to mention elevated uranium in
granites such as the Reading Prong.  The soils associated with these
widespread formations tend to be much higher in concentration, up to 100
mg/kg U.

Respectfully,

Dan ii

--
Dan W McCarn, Geologist
108 Sherwood Blvd
Los Alamos, NM 87544-3425
+1-505-672-2014 (Home - New Mexico)
+1-505-670-8123 (Mobile - New Mexico)
HotGreenChile at gmail.com (Private email) HotGreenChile at gmail dot com

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Ahmad Al-Ani
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 23:18
To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] DU not toxicologically identical to non D-U

On Mon Oct 31st, 2011 9:30 PM AST Brennan, Mike  (DOH) wrote:

>If you are saying that the chemical properties of U238 are sufficiently
>different from those of U235 and U234 as to be detectable in the way
>organisms are affected, I would like to see the model and the evidence.

Is there such a technique called Uranium Bio-Enrichment? It would be
interesting if farmed cells or organisms can selectively absorb U235 in
an efficient manner to compete with current methods.

Ahmad Al-Ani
Radiation Physicist

>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
>[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of James Salsman
>Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 10:35 AM
>To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
>Subject: [ RadSafe ] DU not toxicologically identical to non D-U
>
>Mark Sonter wrote:
>
>> DU *must* be toxicologically identical to non D-U.
>
>That is not consistent with the translocation graph shown in the Gmelin
>Handbook of Inorganic Chemistry, 8th Edition, English translation
>(Springer-Verlag, 1982), Title U -- Uranium, Supplemental Volume A7 --
>Biology, Section 3 -- Metabolism: Absorption, page 305, Figure 3-1,
>"Retention and translocation of inhaled uranyl nitrate,"
>from J.E. Ballou, R.A. Gies, and N.A. Wagman in BNWL-2500, Part 1, pp.
>379-380 (1978.)
>
>If I owe Bob Cherry an apology for not knowing about genotoxicity when
>he made statements to federal officials on the health aspects of
>uranium fume inhalation, or for getting his title wrong, then I
>apologize.  I remain of the opinion that a more appropriate title would
>involve a Quantico detainee number for decades followed by "Defendant"
>in a medical expense loss recovery class action suit, and I appreciate
>all the work the military does to defend my right to express such
>opinions.
>
>Sincerely,
>James Salsman
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