[ RadSafe ] Re; CO2 regulation:

Mon Sep 12 18:29:40 CDT 2011

In regulating CO2, I wonder if EPA wil try to control respiration. I will not 
hold my breath until they decide ;-)

________________________________
From: "edmond0033 at comcast.net" <edmond0033 at comcast.net>
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List 
<radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Sent: Mon, September 12, 2011 4:06:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning

Franz:

Since the USEPA has decided to regulate CO2, and have included Radon and decay 
products, your idea to have them cease breathing these gases has been my answer 
to this foolishness.  I suggest each day they cease breathing for an hour.  We 
have a 'hand and foot' monitor that is in between two doors. If it's closed long 
enough it becomes contaminated with Radon and decay products and indicates it 
is.  If the door is opened for a few minutes, it clears the area.

Ed Baratta

edmond0033 at comcast.net

-----Original Message----- From: marco bähler
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 5:12 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning

franz
I happen to have a set of filters in my leadcastle right now and the lead 210 
peak is very strong while the other peaks of lead and bismuth, which I am 
familiar with, are almost absent. the filters were in a house for one year.
every once in a while i am surprised on how you get carried away...
marco bähler

Am 12.09.2011 um 20:55 schrieb <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at> 
<franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>:

> Don't do it!! This is the privilege of our raman-spectroscopist to measure 
>accurately I-131 from Fukushima with secret detectors; to prove core meltdown, 
>radiation doses to the population in the vicinity or probably for a whole 
>country etc. etc.
> 
> Now I switch off the "sarcasm modus": You will find in any airfilters 
>tremendous amounts of short-lived radon daughters if you measure fast enough. 
>Unfortunately there are some natural limitations because of half-lifes to detect 
>Po-210 in air filters.....
> 
> But please do not tell those people about radon and daughters in air and the 
>dose implications, they might start a campain to forbid breathing.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Franz
> 
> 
> ---- Brent Rogers <brent.rogers at optusnet.com.au> schrieb:
>> Mike
>> 
>> Would you consider counting automotive air filters?
>> 
>> <wink>
>> 
>> Brent Rogers
>> Sydney Australia
>> TDY Washington DC
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 12/09/2011, at 12:24, "Brennan, Mike  (DOH)" <Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV> 
>>wrote:
>> 
>>> I am glad that my understanding of the situation agrees with Franz's
>>> opinion, as his expertise is far greater than mine (no irony implied;
>>> I'm just a sample grabber who reads stuff).  Processing Po-210 from
>>> radium sources has several non-trivial issues that need to be
>>> considered.  The first is that the decay product of radium is radon,
>>> which is a noble gas.  If the radium source is not constructed in a way
>>> that contains the radium, there will be little ingrowth of the isotopes
>>> down the chain, including Po-210.  The next issue is that if you have a
>>> refined radium source, presumably all the lead and bismuth and polonium
>>> isotopes would have been left behind with the slag.  This means the
>>> Pb-210 won't come into equilibrium for some time (about 140 years, using
>>> an old thumb rule).  On the bright side, there are radium sources that
>>> are that old, but getting them would be a non-trivial challenge).
>>> 
>>> If I were insistent on concentrating Po-210 from "natural" sources, as
>>> opposed to going the activation route, I would look at ventilation
>>> filters or liquid dust traps for mines.  Obviously some mines would be
>>> better for this than others.
>>> 
>>> After all that, you are left with the chemistry, which I've been told is
>>> trick, especially as the fine powder that results is difficult to keep
>>> contained (one person said that alpha recoil increases the spread of
>>> contamination, but I wouldn't know).  I've been told that it will crap
>>> up a glove box no matter how careful you are, and you will never get it
>>> clean (until it decays away).
>>> 
>>> All this is easy compared to building a nuclear reactor in order to do
>>> activation.  On the other hand, if you already have a nuclear reactor,
>>> and all that neutron flux is just going to waste...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
>>> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of
>>> franz.schoenhofer at chello.at
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 1:21 PM
>>> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
>>> List; The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
>>> MailingList
>>> Cc: Busby, Chris
>>> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>>> 
>>> Absurd and lacking any insight in the topic and on reality. Po-210 is
>>> produced commercially as far as I know (almost) exclusively in Russian
>>> reactors (consult Google). They have enough to spend some to the KGB.
>>> What are "old radium tubes"? Since you have neither knowledge about
>>> radiation protection or chemistry I wonder where you got the recipe for
>>> separating Po-210 from radium. Radiumsources usually are not to be found
>>> on the streets, so where do you get them from? Being a radiochemist I
>>> would not work with the necessary quantities of radium to extract the
>>> polonium obviously used in the murder of Litvinenko.
>>> 
>>> Franz
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---- "Busby schrieb:
>>>> 
>>>> Yes. Interesting. Everyone blamed the Russians because it was said
>>> that only someone with access to a reactor could have put the poison
>>> together i.e. it was not a amateur job. But it is easy to separate Po210
>>> from old radium tubes with nitric acid and baking soda; a kitchen job,
>>> though you'd have to be jolly careful. I think KGB would have far more
>>> sophisticated ways of killing someone.
>>>> Chris
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Otto G. Raabe
>>>> Sent: Sat 9/10/2011 7:38 PM
>>>> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
>>> List
>>>> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>>>> 
>>>> September 10, 2011
>>>> 
>>>> At London's Millenium Hotel on November 1, 2006, Alexander
>>>> Litvinenko, a Russian defector, was poisoned  with tea containing a
>>>> large amount of polonium-210. He fell ill that very day and died
>>>> after a long hospitalization on November 23. He told investigators
>>>> that he had met with two former KGB agents early on the day he fell
>>> ill.
>>>> 
>>> --
>>> Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
>>> Habicherg. 31/7
>>> A-1160 Vienna
>>> Austria
>>> mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
>>> 
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> 
> --
> Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
> Habicherg. 31/7
> A-1160 Vienna
> Austria
> mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the 
>RadSafe rules. These can be found at: 
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