[ RadSafe ] RadSafe Digest, Vol 741, Issue 1
DWard67262 at aol.com
DWard67262 at aol.com
Mon Sep 12 20:41:01 CDT 2011
It has been a few decades since I was involved in Naval Shore Reactors, but
I remember that we used Polonium-210 beryllium startup sources.
Dave Ward
In a message dated 9/12/2011 11:02:03 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
radsafe-request at health.phys.iit.edu writes:
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Thanks!_______________________________________________
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (radbloom at comcast.net)
2. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (franz.schoenhofer at chello.at)
3. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (franz.schoenhofer at chello.at)
4. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (franz.schoenhofer at chello.at)
5. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (franz.schoenhofer at chello.at)
6. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (Larry Addis)
7. Re: Fwd: Limits on airflow from a contamination-control area
(Boing, Lawrence E.)
8. Re: Fwd: Limits on airflow from a contamination-control area
(Cowie, Michael I)
9. Re: Fwd: Limits on airflow from a contamination-control area
(Boing, Lawrence E.)
10. Re: Fwd: Limits on airflow from a contamination-control area
(Possidente, William (CONTR))
11. Re: Fwd: Limits on airflow from a contamination-control area
(Harry Reynolds)
12. Re: Fwd: Limits on airflow from a contamination-control area
(John Bliss)
13. Re: Fwd: Limits on airflow from a contamination-controlarea
(Ross Beveridge)
14. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (franz.schoenhofer at chello.at)
15. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (franz.schoenhofer at chello.at)
16. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (franz.schoenhofer at chello.at)
17. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (franz.schoenhofer at chello.at)
18. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (Busby, Chris)
19. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (Busby, Chris)
20. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (Busby, Chris)
21. Fwd: WG: [srp] France nuclear: Marcoule site blast kills one
(franz.schoenhofer at chello.at)
22. Re: Fwd: WG: [srp] France nuclear: Marcoule site blast kills
one (Perle, Sandy)
23. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (Brennan, Mike (DOH))
24. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning
(Baumbaugh, Joel T CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-PACIFIC, 55360)
25. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning
(Baumbaugh, Joel T CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-PACIFIC, 55360)
26. Re: Polonium-210 poisoning (Brent Rogers)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:59:40 +0000 (UTC)
From: radbloom at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Cc: "The International Radiation Protection \(Health Physics\) Mailing
List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID:
<524996726.1266738.1315760380273.JavaMail.root at sz0034a.westchester.pa.mail.c
omcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I think you mean Tl-208, 2.6 MeV (4N series, i.e., Th-232...Ra-228...);
not Tl-206,?photon emissions less than 1% of the time, 0.803 MeV maximum
(4n+2 series, i.e., U-238...Ra-226...).??
Cindy Bloom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Busby" <C.Busby at ulster.ac. uk >
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List"
< radsafe @ agni .phys. iit . edu >, "The International Radiation
Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List" < radsafe @ agni .phys. iit . edu >
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:54:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
Well they originally thought it was Tl206, which has that big gamma line
up in the 2.2MeV region because there was some weak gamma, thats the decay
series of one of the Radiums , 228 I think. That would fit with a kitchen
operation. But I didnt hear about any reactor gamma nuclide . This is from
memory but its one of the Tl s
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe -bounces@ agni .phys. iit . edu on behalf of Mark Ramsay
Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 2:20 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
?
Do I not recall some gamma spec (yes gamma) was done which linked it to
reactor based production (based on impurities) ?
Rgs
Mark
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 22:01:09 +0200
From: <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
MailingList" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID: <20110911220110.R7SC6.58910.root at viefep21.chello.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Larry,
You cannot remember the numbers, because they were not published -
officially because it was a "pending case" and it is still pending of political
reasons.
I agree with you that it might be surprising how radiotoxic Po-210 is, but
whenever you would have been involved in the question of natural
radioactive isotopes in drinking water (as I have been), you would have had a look
at the dose factors and discovered that they are highest for Po-210.
Fortunately the concentration of Po-210 in drinking and mineral waters are usually
very low and therefore of no concern.
I have in my life worked as a (radio)chemist with all kind of poisonous
stuff from cyanides to organic poisons which sent me twice to the hospital
ambulance. The chance to come across Po-210 in my tea I would estimate at
10E-3000. Well, I have not been a spy for a superpower.
I have some more comments on this topic - watch RADSAFE.
Bestg regards,
Franz
---- Larry Addis <ajess at clemson.edu> schrieb:
> Yes, I don't remember the numbers and I'm no novice, but I was surprised
to
> find out just how radiotoxic and what a small quantity of Po-210 it would
> take to do the job. It's pretty easy to get 15 mCi of Po-210 many times
> over. Betty Crocker chemistry wild extract the poison relatively easily.
It
> would have never crossed my mind before Litvinenko.
>
> I had forgotten the movie. I'll look it up.
>
> LA
>
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 22:10:17 +0200
From: <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
MailingList" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID: <20110911221018.WEEZ4.58942.root at viefep21.chello.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Mark,
Yes, its parent nuclide is reactor produced and it's purified from it.
Details can even be found on Google.
---- Mark Ramsay <mark.ramsay at ionactive.co.uk> schrieb:
> Do I not recall some gamma spec (yes gamma) was done which linked it to
reactor based production (based on impurities) ?
>
> Rgs
>
> Mark
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 11 Sep 2011, at 14:12, "Busby, Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes. Interesting. Everyone blamed the Russians because it was said
that only someone with access to a reactor could have put the poison together
i.e. it was not a amateur job. But it is easy to separate Po210 from old
radium tubes with nitric acid and baking soda; a kitchen job, though you'd
have to be jolly careful. I think KGB would have far more sophisticated ways
of killing someone.
> > Chris
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Otto G. Raabe
> > Sent: Sat 9/10/2011 7:38 PM
> > To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List
> > Subject: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
> >
> > September 10, 2011
> >
> > At London's Millenium Hotel on November 1, 2006, Alexander
> > Litvinenko, a Russian defector, was poisoned with tea containing a
> > large amount of polonium-210. He fell ill that very day and died
> > after a long hospitalization on November 23. He told investigators
> > that he had met with two former KGB agents early on the day he fell
ill.
> >
> > That event reminded me of an old black-and-white movie that I saw in
> > 1950, and I recently rented it from Netflix. Well, the similarity of
> > that story was surprising, especially since that story was written so
> > early in the atomic age.
> >
> > That 1950 movie was named "D.O.A", starring Edmond O'Brien.
> >
> > While on vacation in San Francisco, an accountant named Frank Bigelow
> > is purposely poisoned at a bar with a "slow-acting" poison which the
> > doctors called a "luminous poison". In the movie, the physicians
> > detected the poison in the victim's blood using a blood sample mixed
> > in a test tube with a scintillation solution and observed the tube
> > glowing in the dark. This glowing tube is shown in the movie. The
> > doctors reported extensive blood cell damage and told Bigelow that
> > his condition was terminal. He had only a few days or weeks to live.
> > They said they could have pumped his stomach if he had come in soon
> > after he was poisoned, but he did not know that he was poisoned. The
> > doctors said that there was no antidote for this "luminous" poison.
> >
> > Well the story is about how Bigelow searches for the attacker, and it
> > is quite interesting especially with all the old scenes in San
Francisco.
> >
> > Otto
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
> >
> > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and
understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
> >
> > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
> >
> > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and
understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
> >
> > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
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visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
--
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 22:20:53 +0200
From: <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>, "The International Radiation
Protection (Health Physics) MailingList" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Cc: "Busby, Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20110911222054.VVVCK.58965.root at viefep21.chello.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Absurd and lacking any insight in the topic and on reality. Po-210 is
produced commercially as far as I know (almost) exclusively in Russian reactors
(consult Google). They have enough to spend some to the KGB. What are "old
radium tubes"? Since you have neither knowledge about radiation protection
or chemistry I wonder where you got the recipe for separating Po-210 from
radium. Radiumsources usually are not to be found on the streets, so where
do you get them from? Being a radiochemist I would not work with the
necessary quantities of radium to extract the polonium obviously used in the
murder of Litvinenko.
Franz
---- "Busby schrieb:
>
> Yes. Interesting. Everyone blamed the Russians because it was said that
only someone with access to a reactor could have put the poison together
i.e. it was not a amateur job. But it is easy to separate Po210 from old
radium tubes with nitric acid and baking soda; a kitchen job, though you'd have
to be jolly careful. I think KGB would have far more sophisticated ways of
killing someone.
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Otto G. Raabe
> Sent: Sat 9/10/2011 7:38 PM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>
> September 10, 2011
>
> At London's Millenium Hotel on November 1, 2006, Alexander
> Litvinenko, a Russian defector, was poisoned with tea containing a
> large amount of polonium-210. He fell ill that very day and died
> after a long hospitalization on November 23. He told investigators
> that he had met with two former KGB agents early on the day he fell ill.
>
--
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 22:20:53 +0200
From: <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>, "The International Radiation
Protection (Health Physics) MailingList" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Cc: "Busby, Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20110911222054.VVVCK.58965.root at viefep21.chello.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Absurd and lacking any insight in the topic and on reality. Po-210 is
produced commercially as far as I know (almost) exclusively in Russian reactors
(consult Google). They have enough to spend some to the KGB. What are "old
radium tubes"? Since you have neither knowledge about radiation protection
or chemistry I wonder where you got the recipe for separating Po-210 from
radium. Radiumsources usually are not to be found on the streets, so where
do you get them from? Being a radiochemist I would not work with the
necessary quantities of radium to extract the polonium obviously used in the
murder of Litvinenko.
Franz
---- "Busby schrieb:
>
> Yes. Interesting. Everyone blamed the Russians because it was said that
only someone with access to a reactor could have put the poison together
i.e. it was not a amateur job. But it is easy to separate Po210 from old
radium tubes with nitric acid and baking soda; a kitchen job, though you'd have
to be jolly careful. I think KGB would have far more sophisticated ways of
killing someone.
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Otto G. Raabe
> Sent: Sat 9/10/2011 7:38 PM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>
> September 10, 2011
>
> At London's Millenium Hotel on November 1, 2006, Alexander
> Litvinenko, a Russian defector, was poisoned with tea containing a
> large amount of polonium-210. He fell ill that very day and died
> after a long hospitalization on November 23. He told investigators
> that he had met with two former KGB agents early on the day he fell ill.
>
--
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:56:37 -0400
From: "Larry Addis" <ajess at clemson.edu>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "'The International Radiation Protection \(Health Physics\)
Mailing List'" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID: <001901cc70c5$55c89a20$0159ce60$@edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Chris,
I would imagine "old radium tubes" whatever they may be, are somewhat hard
to find. Devices (little tubes) containing 15 mCi each may be bought
without a license in the US. Lethal dose is relatively low. I think
someone
on this board did the internal dosimetry and posted it previously.
LA
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Busby, Chris
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 4:39 AM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List;
The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
Yes. Interesting. Everyone blamed the Russians because it was said that
only
someone with access to a reactor could have put the poison together i.e. it
was not a amateur job. But it is easy to separate Po210 from old radium
tubes with nitric acid and baking soda; a kitchen job, though you'd have to
be jolly careful. I think KGB would have far more sophisticated ways of
killing someone.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Otto G. Raabe
Sent: Sat 9/10/2011 7:38 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
September 10, 2011
At London's Millenium Hotel on November 1, 2006, Alexander
Litvinenko, a Russian defector, was poisoned with tea containing a
large amount of polonium-210. He fell ill that very day and died
after a long hospitalization on November 23. He told investigators
that he had met with two former KGB agents early on the day he fell ill.
That event reminded me of an old black-and-white movie that I saw in
1950, and I recently rented it from Netflix. Well, the similarity of
that story was surprising, especially since that story was written so
early in the atomic age.
That 1950 movie was named "D.O.A", starring Edmond O'Brien.
While on vacation in San Francisco, an accountant named Frank Bigelow
is purposely poisoned at a bar with a "slow-acting" poison which the
doctors called a "luminous poison". In the movie, the physicians
detected the poison in the victim's blood using a blood sample mixed
in a test tube with a scintillation solution and observed the tube
glowing in the dark. This glowing tube is shown in the movie. The
doctors reported extensive blood cell damage and told Bigelow that
his condition was terminal. He had only a few days or weeks to live.
They said they could have pumped his stomach if he had come in soon
after he was poisoned, but he did not know that he was poisoned. The
doctors said that there was no antidote for this "luminous" poison.
Well the story is about how Bigelow searches for the attacker, and it
is quite interesting especially with all the old scenes in San Francisco.
Otto
_______________________________________________
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visit:
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_______________________________________________
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http://health.phys.iit.edu
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:36:42 -0500
From: "Boing, Lawrence E." <lboing at anl.gov>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a
contamination-control area
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID:
<8FB217BC1259B74899E2B66DA840910D01C34187F9 at HETFIELD.anl.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have a lead on getting a copy of this document.
Larry Boing
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Terry
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 8:08 AM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a contamination-control
area
Hi All,
Please remember to send plain-text messages.
Forwarded to the list:
Dear Ross
We are urgently looking for the NVF/DG001 publication mentioned below
A replacement of an old UK AECP 1054 (Atomic Energy Code of Practice) has
recently been updated (January 2009). This new document (NVF/DG001) gives
excellent information on the ventilation requirements for nuclear
facilities
and covers not only permanently established controlled areas but also
temporarily ventilated areas when non-routine work is being carried out
(outage type operations/maintenance of gloveboxes or other engineered
containment structures). This is based on UK statutory legislation but the
principles are universal.
Can you please advise on how to obtain a copy of this document.
Thank you
Mariette Clayton
Mariette Clayton
KM Specialist
Tel: (012) 305-3201
Fax: (012) 305-3195
Cell: 0824421152
Email: mariette.clayton at necsa.co.za
Website: www.necsa.co.za
Jeff Terry
Assoc. Professor of Physics Chair, Executive Committee
Life Science Bldg Rm 166 Advanced Test Reactor National Scientific Users
Organization
Illinois Institute of Technology Center For Advanced Energy Studies
3101 S. Dearborn St. 995 University Boulevard, Suite 181
Chicago IL 60616 Idaho Falls, ID 83401
Ph: 630-252-9708 Ph: 630-252-9708
Email: terryj at iit.edu Email: terryj at iit.edu
Twitter: @nuclear94 Twitter: @ATRNSUOchair
_______________________________________________
You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 15:04:35 +0000
From: "Cowie, Michael I" <michael.cowie at aramco.com>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a
contamination-control area
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
MailingList" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Cc: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID: <8CE31B8D-E462-4A5C-8F15-D13CBF4BAD50 at aramco.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I have PDF copy which I forwarded to those who requested it.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 12, 2011, at 5:36 PM, "Boing, Lawrence E." <lboing at anl.gov> wrote:
> I have a lead on getting a copy of this document.
>
> Larry Boing
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Terry
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 8:08 AM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a contamination-control
area
>
> Hi All,
>
> Please remember to send plain-text messages.
> Forwarded to the list:
>
> Dear Ross
>
> We are urgently looking for the NVF/DG001 publication mentioned below
>
> A replacement of an old UK AECP 1054 (Atomic Energy Code of Practice)
has
> recently been updated (January 2009). This new document (NVF/DG001)
gives
> excellent information on the ventilation requirements for nuclear
facilities
> and covers not only permanently established controlled areas but also
> temporarily ventilated areas when non-routine work is being carried out
> (outage type operations/maintenance of gloveboxes or other engineered
> containment structures). This is based on UK statutory legislation but
the
> principles are universal.
>
> Can you please advise on how to obtain a copy of this document.
>
> Thank you
> Mariette Clayton
>
> Mariette Clayton
> KM Specialist
> Tel: (012) 305-3201
> Fax: (012) 305-3195
> Cell: 0824421152
> Email: mariette.clayton at necsa.co.za
> Website: www.necsa.co.za
>
> Jeff Terry
> Assoc. Professor of Physics Chair, Executive
Committee
> Life Science Bldg Rm 166 Advanced Test Reactor National
Scientific Users Organization
> Illinois Institute of Technology Center For Advanced
Energy Studies
> 3101 S. Dearborn St. 995 University Boulevard, Suite 181
> Chicago IL 60616 Idaho Falls, ID 83401
> Ph: 630-252-9708 Ph: 630-252-9708
> Email: terryj at iit.edu Email: terryj at iit.edu
> Twitter: @nuclear94 Twitter: @ATRNSUOchair
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
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information. This Email may not be disclosed or forwarded to anyone else without
authorization from the originator of this Email. If you have received this
Email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies
from your system. Please note that the views or opinions presented in this
Email are those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of
Saudi Aramco. The recipient should check this Email and any attachments for
the presence of any viruses. Saudi Aramco accepts no liability for any
damage caused by any virus/error transmitted by this Email.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 10:08:22 -0500
From: "Boing, Lawrence E." <lboing at anl.gov>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a
contamination-control area
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID:
<8FB217BC1259B74899E2B66DA840910D01C3418815 at HETFIELD.anl.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mike,
In that case could you email me a copy - I could use that.
Larry Boing
lboing at anl.gov
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Cowie, Michael I
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 10:05 AM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
Cc: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a
contamination-control area
I have PDF copy which I forwarded to those who requested it.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 12, 2011, at 5:36 PM, "Boing, Lawrence E." <lboing at anl.gov> wrote:
> I have a lead on getting a copy of this document.
>
> Larry Boing
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Terry
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 8:08 AM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a contamination-control
area
>
> Hi All,
>
> Please remember to send plain-text messages.
> Forwarded to the list:
>
> Dear Ross
>
> We are urgently looking for the NVF/DG001 publication mentioned below
>
> A replacement of an old UK AECP 1054 (Atomic Energy Code of Practice)
has
> recently been updated (January 2009). This new document (NVF/DG001)
gives
> excellent information on the ventilation requirements for nuclear
facilities
> and covers not only permanently established controlled areas but also
> temporarily ventilated areas when non-routine work is being carried out
> (outage type operations/maintenance of gloveboxes or other engineered
> containment structures). This is based on UK statutory legislation but
the
> principles are universal.
>
> Can you please advise on how to obtain a copy of this document.
>
> Thank you
> Mariette Clayton
>
> Mariette Clayton
> KM Specialist
> Tel: (012) 305-3201
> Fax: (012) 305-3195
> Cell: 0824421152
> Email: mariette.clayton at necsa.co.za
> Website: www.necsa.co.za
>
> Jeff Terry
> Assoc. Professor of Physics Chair, Executive
Committee
> Life Science Bldg Rm 166 Advanced Test Reactor National
Scientific Users Organization
> Illinois Institute of Technology Center For Advanced
Energy Studies
> 3101 S. Dearborn St. 995 University Boulevard, Suite 181
> Chicago IL 60616 Idaho Falls, ID 83401
> Ph: 630-252-9708 Ph: 630-252-9708
> Email: terryj at iit.edu Email: terryj at iit.edu
> Twitter: @nuclear94 Twitter: @ATRNSUOchair
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
________________________________
The contents of this email, including all related responses, files and
attachments transmitted with it (collectively referred to as ?this Email?),
are intended solely for the use of the individual/entity to whom/which they
are addressed, and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
information. This Email may not be disclosed or forwarded to anyone else without
authorization from the originator of this Email. If you have received this
Email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies
from your system. Please note that the views or opinions presented in this
Email are those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of
Saudi Aramco. The recipient should check this Email and any attachments for
the presence of any viruses. Saudi Aramco accepts no liability for any
damage caused by any virus/error transmitted by this Email.
_______________________________________________
You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 15:10:45 +0000
From: "Possidente, William (CONTR)" <PossidW at nv.doe.gov>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a
contamination-control area
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID:
<8ED044F49C3A384E89838AB55E25DE6D3E485AE6 at NLV-MAIL2-WS.NTS.OPS>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Mike,
If you'd be so kind, I could use a copy of the mentioned document also.
Thank you in advance.
Bill Possidente
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Cowie, Michael I
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 8:05 AM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
Cc: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a
contamination-control area
I have PDF copy which I forwarded to those who requested it.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 12, 2011, at 5:36 PM, "Boing, Lawrence E." <lboing at anl.gov> wrote:
> I have a lead on getting a copy of this document.
>
> Larry Boing
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Terry
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 8:08 AM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a contamination-control
area
>
> Hi All,
>
> Please remember to send plain-text messages.
> Forwarded to the list:
>
> Dear Ross
>
> We are urgently looking for the NVF/DG001 publication mentioned below
>
> A replacement of an old UK AECP 1054 (Atomic Energy Code of Practice)
has
> recently been updated (January 2009). This new document (NVF/DG001)
gives
> excellent information on the ventilation requirements for nuclear
facilities
> and covers not only permanently established controlled areas but also
> temporarily ventilated areas when non-routine work is being carried out
> (outage type operations/maintenance of gloveboxes or other engineered
> containment structures). This is based on UK statutory legislation but
the
> principles are universal.
>
> Can you please advise on how to obtain a copy of this document.
>
> Thank you
> Mariette Clayton
>
> Mariette Clayton
> KM Specialist
> Tel: (012) 305-3201
> Fax: (012) 305-3195
> Cell: 0824421152
> Email: mariette.clayton at necsa.co.za
> Website: www.necsa.co.za
>
> Jeff Terry
> Assoc. Professor of Physics Chair, Executive
Committee
> Life Science Bldg Rm 166 Advanced Test Reactor National
Scientific Users Organization
> Illinois Institute of Technology Center For Advanced
Energy Studies
> 3101 S. Dearborn St. 995 University Boulevard, Suite 181
> Chicago IL 60616 Idaho Falls, ID 83401
> Ph: 630-252-9708 Ph: 630-252-9708
> Email: terryj at iit.edu Email: terryj at iit.edu
> Twitter: @nuclear94 Twitter: @ATRNSUOchair
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
________________________________
The contents of this email, including all related responses, files and
attachments transmitted with it (collectively referred to as ?this Email?),
are intended solely for the use of the individual/entity to whom/which they
are addressed, and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
information. This Email may not be disclosed or forwarded to anyone else without
authorization from the originator of this Email. If you have received this
Email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies
from your system. Please note that the views or opinions presented in this
Email are those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of
Saudi Aramco. The recipient should check this Email and any attachments for
the presence of any viruses. Saudi Aramco accepts no liability for any
damage caused by any virus/error transmitted by this Email.
_______________________________________________
You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 15:17:21 +0000
From: Harry Reynolds <hreynolds at energysolutions.com>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a
contamination-control area
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID:
<AC291E55D86E424881DF7A0FFB7F1F1803B375 at wjutexch1.energysolutions.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I would also like a copy if possible.
Thanks
Harry Reynolds
ASRSO
ENERGYSOLUTIONS
801-649-2219 Desk
801-349-9036 Cell
hreynolds at energysolutions.com
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Boing, Lawrence E.
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 9:08 AM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a
contamination-control area
Mike,
In that case could you email me a copy - I could use that.
Larry Boing
lboing at anl.gov
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Cowie, Michael I
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 10:05 AM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
Cc: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a
contamination-control area
I have PDF copy which I forwarded to those who requested it.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 12, 2011, at 5:36 PM, "Boing, Lawrence E." <lboing at anl.gov> wrote:
> I have a lead on getting a copy of this document.
>
> Larry Boing
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Terry
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 8:08 AM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a contamination-control
area
>
> Hi All,
>
> Please remember to send plain-text messages.
> Forwarded to the list:
>
> Dear Ross
>
> We are urgently looking for the NVF/DG001 publication mentioned below
>
> A replacement of an old UK AECP 1054 (Atomic Energy Code of Practice)
has
> recently been updated (January 2009). This new document (NVF/DG001)
gives
> excellent information on the ventilation requirements for nuclear
facilities
> and covers not only permanently established controlled areas but also
> temporarily ventilated areas when non-routine work is being carried out
> (outage type operations/maintenance of gloveboxes or other engineered
> containment structures). This is based on UK statutory legislation but
the
> principles are universal.
>
> Can you please advise on how to obtain a copy of this document.
>
> Thank you
> Mariette Clayton
>
> Mariette Clayton
> KM Specialist
> Tel: (012) 305-3201
> Fax: (012) 305-3195
> Cell: 0824421152
> Email: mariette.clayton at necsa.co.za
> Website: www.necsa.co.za
>
> Jeff Terry
> Assoc. Professor of Physics Chair, Executive
Committee
> Life Science Bldg Rm 166 Advanced Test Reactor National
Scientific Users Organization
> Illinois Institute of Technology Center For Advanced
Energy Studies
> 3101 S. Dearborn St. 995 University Boulevard, Suite 181
> Chicago IL 60616 Idaho Falls, ID 83401
> Ph: 630-252-9708 Ph: 630-252-9708
> Email: terryj at iit.edu Email: terryj at iit.edu
> Twitter: @nuclear94 Twitter: @ATRNSUOchair
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
________________________________
The contents of this email, including all related responses, files and
attachments transmitted with it (collectively referred to as ?this Email?),
are intended solely for the use of the individual/entity to whom/which they
are addressed, and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
information. This Email may not be disclosed or forwarded to anyone else without
authorization from the originator of this Email. If you have received this
Email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies
from your system. Please note that the views or opinions presented in this
Email are those of the author and may not necessarily represent those of
Saudi Aramco. The recipient should check this Email and any attachments for
the presence of any viruses. Saudi Aramco accepts no liability for any
damage caused by any virus/error transmitted by this Email.
_______________________________________________
You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
_______________________________________________
You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:37:24 -0600
From: John Bliss <radsaf6 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a
contamination-control area
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID:
<CAAE5dqq74q0-shdkn1MuPFfchggZARCttTxYPwvVD2Sw9drWcw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Mike,
I would appreciate a copy.
Thanks.
John
John Bliss
radsaf6 at gmail.com
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Cowie, Michael I
<michael.cowie at aramco.com>wrote:
> I have PDF copy which I forwarded to those who requested it.
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 5:36 PM, "Boing, Lawrence E." <lboing at anl.gov> wrote:
>
> > I have a lead on getting a copy of this document.
> >
> > Larry Boing
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu [mailto:
> radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Terry
> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 8:08 AM
> > To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List
> > Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a
contamination-control
> area
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Please remember to send plain-text messages.
> > Forwarded to the list:
> >
> > Dear Ross
> >
> > We are urgently looking for the NVF/DG001 publication mentioned below
> >
> > A replacement of an old UK AECP 1054 (Atomic Energy Code of Practice)
has
> > recently been updated (January 2009). This new document (NVF/DG001)
> gives
> > excellent information on the ventilation requirements for nuclear
> facilities
> > and covers not only permanently established controlled areas but also
> > temporarily ventilated areas when non-routine work is being carried out
> > (outage type operations/maintenance of gloveboxes or other engineered
> > containment structures). This is based on UK statutory legislation
but
> the
> > principles are universal.
> >
> > Can you please advise on how to obtain a copy of this document.
> >
> > Thank you
> > Mariette Clayton
> >
> > Mariette Clayton
> > KM Specialist
> > Tel: (012) 305-3201
> > Fax: (012) 305-3195
> > Cell: 0824421152
> > Email: mariette.clayton at necsa.co.za
> > Website: www.necsa.co.za
> >
> > Jeff Terry
> > Assoc. Professor of Physics Chair, Executive
> Committee
> > Life Science Bldg Rm 166 Advanced Test
> Reactor National Scientific Users Organization
> > Illinois Institute of Technology Center For
> Advanced Energy Studies
> > 3101 S. Dearborn St. 995 University
> Boulevard, Suite 181
> > Chicago IL 60616 Idaho Falls, ID
> 83401
> > Ph: 630-252-9708 Ph: 630-252-9708
> > Email: terryj at iit.edu Email:
> terryj at iit.edu
> > Twitter: @nuclear94 Twitter:
> @ATRNSUOchair
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
> >
> > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
> >
> > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
> visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> > _______________________________________________
> > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
> >
> > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
> >
> > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
> visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
>
> ________________________________
>
> The contents of this email, including all related responses, files and
> attachments transmitted with it (collectively referred to as ?this
Email?),
> are intended solely for the use of the individual/entity to whom/which
they
> are addressed, and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
> information. This Email may not be disclosed or forwarded to anyone else
> without authorization from the originator of this Email. If you have
> received this Email in error, please notify the sender immediately and
> delete all copies from your system. Please note that the views or
opinions
> presented in this Email are those of the author and may not necessarily
> represent those of Saudi Aramco. The recipient should check this Email
and
> any attachments for the presence of any viruses. Saudi Aramco accepts no
> liability for any damage caused by any virus/error transmitted by this
> Email.
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the
> RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
> visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 15:53:10 +0000
From: "Ross Beveridge" <rgb at rrbev.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a
contamination-controlarea
To: "The International Radiation Protection \(Health Physics\)
MailingList" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID:
<2064489499-1315843059-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1798170066-@
b11.c1.bise7.blackberry>
Content-Type: text/plain
I forwarded a copy earlier today.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: "Boing, Lawrence E." <lboing at anl.gov>
Sender: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:36:42
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List<radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Reply-To: "The International Radiation Protection \(Health Physics\)
Mailing
List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a
contamination-control
area
I have a lead on getting a copy of this document.
Larry Boing
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Terry
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 8:08 AM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: Limits on airflow from a contamination-control
area
Hi All,
Please remember to send plain-text messages.
Forwarded to the list:
Dear Ross
We are urgently looking for the NVF/DG001 publication mentioned below
A replacement of an old UK AECP 1054 (Atomic Energy Code of Practice) has
recently been updated (January 2009). This new document (NVF/DG001) gives
excellent information on the ventilation requirements for nuclear
facilities
and covers not only permanently established controlled areas but also
temporarily ventilated areas when non-routine work is being carried out
(outage type operations/maintenance of gloveboxes or other engineered
containment structures). This is based on UK statutory legislation but the
principles are universal.
Can you please advise on how to obtain a copy of this document.
Thank you
Mariette Clayton
Mariette Clayton
KM Specialist
Tel: (012) 305-3201
Fax: (012) 305-3195
Cell: 0824421152
Email: mariette.clayton at necsa.co.za
Website: www.necsa.co.za
Jeff Terry
Assoc. Professor of Physics Chair, Executive Committee
Life Science Bldg Rm 166 Advanced Test Reactor National Scientific Users
Organization
Illinois Institute of Technology Center For Advanced Energy Studies
3101 S. Dearborn St. 995 University Boulevard, Suite 181
Chicago IL 60616 Idaho Falls, ID 83401
Ph: 630-252-9708 Ph: 630-252-9708
Email: terryj at iit.edu Email: terryj at iit.edu
Twitter: @nuclear94 Twitter: @ATRNSUOchair
_______________________________________________
You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
_______________________________________________
You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 22:23:39 +0200
From: <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
MailingList" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Cc: "The International Radiation Protection \(Health Physics\) Mailing
List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID: <20110911222339.FDK9Z.58972.root at viefep21.chello.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Cindy,
I hope you understand, that such an eminent scientist like Chris Busby
might sometimes commit a typing error.....
How do you say in the USA? "Tongue firmly in cheek"?
Best regards,
Franz
---- radbloom at comcast.net schrieb:
>
I think you mean Tl-208, 2.6 MeV (4N series, i.e., Th-232...Ra-228...);
not Tl-206,?photon emissions less than 1% of the time, 0.803 MeV maximum
(4n+2 series, i.e., U-238...Ra-226...).??
Cindy Bloom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Busby" <C.Busby at ulster.ac. uk >
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List"
< radsafe @ agni .phys. iit . edu >, "The International Radiation
Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List" < radsafe @ agni .phys. iit . edu >
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:54:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
Well they originally thought it was Tl206, which has that big gamma line
up in the 2.2MeV region because there was some weak gamma, thats the decay
series of one of the Radiums , 228 I think. That would fit with a kitchen
operation. But I didnt hear about any reactor gamma nuclide . This is from
memory but its one of the Tl s
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe -bounces@ agni .phys. iit . edu on behalf of Mark Ramsay
Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 2:20 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
?
Do I not recall some gamma spec (yes gamma) was done which linked it to
reactor based production (based on impurities) ?
Rgs
Mark
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A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 22:23:39 +0200
From: <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
MailingList" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Cc: "The International Radiation Protection \(Health Physics\) Mailing
List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID: <20110911222339.FDK9Z.58972.root at viefep21.chello.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Cindy,
I hope you understand, that such an eminent scientist like Chris Busby
might sometimes commit a typing error.....
How do you say in the USA? "Tongue firmly in cheek"?
Best regards,
Franz
---- radbloom at comcast.net schrieb:
>
I think you mean Tl-208, 2.6 MeV (4N series, i.e., Th-232...Ra-228...);
not Tl-206,?photon emissions less than 1% of the time, 0.803 MeV maximum
(4n+2 series, i.e., U-238...Ra-226...).??
Cindy Bloom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Busby" <C.Busby at ulster.ac. uk >
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List"
< radsafe @ agni .phys. iit . edu >, "The International Radiation
Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List" < radsafe @ agni .phys. iit . edu >
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:54:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
Well they originally thought it was Tl206, which has that big gamma line
up in the 2.2MeV region because there was some weak gamma, thats the decay
series of one of the Radiums , 228 I think. That would fit with a kitchen
operation. But I didnt hear about any reactor gamma nuclide . This is from
memory but its one of the Tl s
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe -bounces@ agni .phys. iit . edu on behalf of Mark Ramsay
Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 2:20 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
?
Do I not recall some gamma spec (yes gamma) was done which linked it to
reactor based production (based on impurities) ?
Rgs
Mark
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Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
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--
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 22:41:22 +0200
From: <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>, "The International Radiation
Protection (Health Physics) MailingList" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Cc: "Busby, Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20110911224122.ZQAGE.59004.root at viefep21.chello.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Chris,
How about doing some literature research - in this case even a google
search would do - before you distribute your absurd and completely wrong
"analysis" of what happened. Looking at Google you might have found under "Franz
Schoenhofer, Litvinenko" among some other papers a paper which my collegue
Gabriele Wallner, Ferdinand Steger and I prepared on the topic of how to
detect such poisoning within a few hours. It also contains the background
information about production of Po-210, its use, its radiologic
characterisation. Not at least it lists my personal experience, because I was in London
at the time the poisoning was detected and I am seriously annoyed, that the
UK which has a treasure of radiochemists and experts were not able to find
the reason of the poisoning within a few hours. It seemed to me to be a
matter of bureaucracy.
Your comment is more than unnecessary because it does not include
anything new or until now not known. Tl-206? you are kidding! this could have been
verified within a few minutes. "Decay series of one of the Radiums, 228 I
think" -this is sound science?
Best regards to RADSAFErs, but not to Chris Busby
Franz
---- "Busby schrieb:
>
>
> Well they originally thought it was Tl206, which has that big gamma line
up in the 2.2MeV region because there was some weak gamma, thats the decay
series of one of the Radiums, 228 I think. That would fit with a kitchen
operation. But I didnt hear about any reactor gamma nuclide. This is from
memory but its one of the Tl s
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Mark Ramsay
> Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 2:20 PM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>
> Do I not recall some gamma spec (yes gamma) was done which linked it to
reactor based production (based on impurities) ?
>
> Rgs
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
--
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 22:41:22 +0200
From: <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>, "The International Radiation
Protection (Health Physics) MailingList" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Cc: "Busby, Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20110911224122.ZQAGE.59004.root at viefep21.chello.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Chris,
How about doing some literature research - in this case even a google
search would do - before you distribute your absurd and completely wrong
"analysis" of what happened. Looking at Google you might have found under "Franz
Schoenhofer, Litvinenko" among some other papers a paper which my collegue
Gabriele Wallner, Ferdinand Steger and I prepared on the topic of how to
detect such poisoning within a few hours. It also contains the background
information about production of Po-210, its use, its radiologic
characterisation. Not at least it lists my personal experience, because I was in London
at the time the poisoning was detected and I am seriously annoyed, that the
UK which has a treasure of radiochemists and experts were not able to find
the reason of the poisoning within a few hours. It seemed to me to be a
matter of bureaucracy.
Your comment is more than unnecessary because it does not include
anything new or until now not known. Tl-206? you are kidding! this could have been
verified within a few minutes. "Decay series of one of the Radiums, 228 I
think" -this is sound science?
Best regards to RADSAFErs, but not to Chris Busby
Franz
---- "Busby schrieb:
>
>
> Well they originally thought it was Tl206, which has that big gamma line
up in the 2.2MeV region because there was some weak gamma, thats the decay
series of one of the Radiums, 228 I think. That would fit with a kitchen
operation. But I didnt hear about any reactor gamma nuclide. This is from
memory but its one of the Tl s
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Mark Ramsay
> Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 2:20 PM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>
> Do I not recall some gamma spec (yes gamma) was done which linked it to
reactor based production (based on impurities) ?
>
> Rgs
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
--
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 10:57:11 +0100
From: "Busby, Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>, "The International Radiation
Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>,
"The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList"
<radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
Cc: "Busby, Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
Message-ID:
<33024CCAFFB61C429DF9581DDE814DF40510B5BA at MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Mr Schoenhofer
Go back to school. The method is in all chemistry books. example
Partington: General and Inorganic Chemistry. Your insights are ridiculous. Check
Google for the parent nuclide of Po-210. It is Radium 226. Not necessary to
have a reactor.
-----Original Message-----
From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at [mailto:franz.schoenhofer at chello.at]
Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 9:20 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List;
The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
Cc: Busby, Chris
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
Absurd and lacking any insight in the topic and on reality. Po-210 is
produced commercially as far as I know (almost) exclusively in Russian reactors
(consult Google). They have enough to spend some to the KGB. What are "old
radium tubes"? Since you have neither knowledge about radiation protection
or chemistry I wonder where you got the recipe for separating Po-210 from
radium. Radiumsources usually are not to be found on the streets, so where
do you get them from? Being a radiochemist I would not work with the
necessary quantities of radium to extract the polonium obviously used in the
murder of Litvinenko.
Franz
---- "Busby schrieb:
>
> Yes. Interesting. Everyone blamed the Russians because it was said that
only someone with access to a reactor could have put the poison together
i.e. it was not a amateur job. But it is easy to separate Po210 from old
radium tubes with nitric acid and baking soda; a kitchen job, though you'd have
to be jolly careful. I think KGB would have far more sophisticated ways of
killing someone.
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Otto G. Raabe
> Sent: Sat 9/10/2011 7:38 PM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>
> September 10, 2011
>
> At London's Millenium Hotel on November 1, 2006, Alexander
> Litvinenko, a Russian defector, was poisoned with tea containing a
> large amount of polonium-210. He fell ill that very day and died
> after a long hospitalization on November 23. He told investigators
> that he had met with two former KGB agents early on the day he fell ill.
>
--
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:06:13 +0100
From: "Busby, Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>, "The International Radiation
Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>,
"The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList"
<radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
Cc: "Busby, Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
Message-ID:
<33024CCAFFB61C429DF9581DDE814DF40510B5BC at MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Franz
I was speaking on Russia Today and Sky News on this topic and was in touch
with the NRPB and HPA in the UK. The quantity of Po210 in Litvinenko was
assessed and published by HPA. I visited the Millenium Hotel after it had
been cleared.
You really dont seem to know much about this. You dont seem to know about
the Tl gammas. Radium tubes are tubes which contained radium of course and
indeed I have measured in my lab ww2 military compasses with sufficient
activity to enable the amount of Po210 that was used on Litvinenko to be
extracted.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at [mailto:franz.schoenhofer at chello.at]
Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 9:41 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List;
The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
Cc: Busby, Chris
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
Chris,
How about doing some literature research - in this case even a google
search would do - before you distribute your absurd and completely wrong
"analysis" of what happened. Looking at Google you might have found under "Franz
Schoenhofer, Litvinenko" among some other papers a paper which my collegue
Gabriele Wallner, Ferdinand Steger and I prepared on the topic of how to
detect such poisoning within a few hours. It also contains the background
information about production of Po-210, its use, its radiologic
characterisation. Not at least it lists my personal experience, because I was in London
at the time the poisoning was detected and I am seriously annoyed, that the
UK which has a treasure of radiochemists and experts were not able to find
the reason of the poisoning within a few hours. It seemed to me to be a
matter of bureaucracy.
Your comment is more than unnecessary because it does not include
anything new or until now not known. Tl-206? you are kidding! this could have been
verified within a few minutes. "Decay series of one of the Radiums, 228 I
think" -this is sound science?
Best regards to RADSAFErs, but not to Chris Busby
Franz
---- "Busby schrieb:
>
>
> Well they originally thought it was Tl206, which has that big gamma line
up in the 2.2MeV region because there was some weak gamma, thats the decay
series of one of the Radiums, 228 I think. That would fit with a kitchen
operation. But I didnt hear about any reactor gamma nuclide. This is from
memory but its one of the Tl s
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Mark Ramsay
> Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 2:20 PM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>
> Do I not recall some gamma spec (yes gamma) was done which linked it to
reactor based production (based on impurities) ?
>
> Rgs
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
--
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:11:37 +0100
From: "Busby, Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>, "The International Radiation
Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
Cc: "The International Radiation Protection \(Health Physics\) Mailing
List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID:
<33024CCAFFB61C429DF9581DDE814DF40510B5BE at MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
That's the one.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of radbloom at comcast.net
Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 5:59 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Cc: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
I think you mean Tl-208, 2.6 MeV (4N series, i.e., Th-232...Ra-228...);
not Tl-206,?photon emissions less than 1% of the time, 0.803 MeV maximum
(4n+2 series, i.e., U-238...Ra-226...).??
Cindy Bloom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Busby" <C.Busby at ulster.ac. uk >
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List"
< radsafe @ agni .phys. iit . edu >, "The International Radiation
Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List" < radsafe @ agni .phys. iit . edu >
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:54:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
Well they originally thought it was Tl206, which has that big gamma line
up in the 2.2MeV region because there was some weak gamma, thats the decay
series of one of the Radiums , 228 I think. That would fit with a kitchen
operation. But I didnt hear about any reactor gamma nuclide . This is from
memory but its one of the Tl s
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe -bounces@ agni .phys. iit . edu on behalf of Mark Ramsay
Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 2:20 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
?
Do I not recall some gamma spec (yes gamma) was done which linked it to
reactor based production (based on impurities) ?
Rgs
Mark
_______________________________________________
You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http ://health.phys. iit . edu /
radsaferules . html
For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http ://health.phys. iit . edu
_______________________________________________
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the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
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visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 18:01:39 +0200
From: <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: WG: [srp] France nuclear: Marcoule site
blast kills one
To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
Message-ID: <20110912180140.1A9AO.61845.root at viefep21.chello.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
RADSAFErs,
Before you might get scared by news distributed by mass media, that the
next nuclear catastrophe took place in Marcoule, France, I forward to you a
message received through Peter Hill from Juelich, Germany.
What actually happened is that an incinerator for low-level waste (paper
towels, gloves etc.) exploded. The Austrian newspapers I read online this
European afternoon all wrote that there was a severe accident in an "atomic
establishment", that this shows again how dangerous nuclear power (!) is and
there is no question that the authorities lie when they claim that no
radioactivity was released and that there is no danger, bla. bla, bla. BTW
there is not even the small reactor anymore on site since long.
Best regards,
Franz
--
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:13:47 -0500
From: "Perle, Sandy" <sperle at mirion.com>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: WG: [srp] France nuclear: Marcoule site
blast kills one
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID: <CA937D6C.1066C%sperle at mirion.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I agree, but the problem is that this is lost on the media as well as the
public. All the media needs to do is include the word "nuclear", and this
is what you see. This type of incident could happen in any operation in
any industry, yet that wouldn't even produce one sentence. The term
nuclear makes all the difference.
Regards,
Sandy
-----------------------------------
Sander C. Perle
President
Mirion Technologies
Dosimetry Services Division
2652 McGaw Avenue
Irvine, CA 92614
+1 (949) 296-2306 (Office)
+1 (949) 296-1130 (Fax)
Mirion Technologies: http://www.mirion.com/
On 9/12/11 9:01 AM, "franz.schoenhofer at chello.at"
<franz.schoenhofer at chello.at> wrote:
>RADSAFErs,
>
>Before you might get scared by news distributed by mass media, that the
>next nuclear catastrophe took place in Marcoule, France, I forward to you
>a message received through Peter Hill from Juelich, Germany.
>
>What actually happened is that an incinerator for low-level waste (paper
>towels, gloves etc.) exploded. The Austrian newspapers I read online this
>European afternoon all wrote that there was a severe accident in an
>"atomic establishment", that this shows again how dangerous nuclear power
>(!) is and there is no question that the authorities lie when they claim
>that no radioactivity was released and that there is no danger, bla. bla,
>bla. BTW there is not even the small reactor anymore on site since long.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Franz
>
>--
>Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
>Habicherg. 31/7
>A-1160 Vienna
>Austria
>mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
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Message: 23
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:24:47 -0700
From: "Brennan, Mike (DOH)" <Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
MailingList" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID:
<37C41083D3480E4BBB478317773B845D075059C2 at dohmxtum31.doh.wa.lcl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I am glad that my understanding of the situation agrees with Franz's
opinion, as his expertise is far greater than mine (no irony implied;
I'm just a sample grabber who reads stuff). Processing Po-210 from
radium sources has several non-trivial issues that need to be
considered. The first is that the decay product of radium is radon,
which is a noble gas. If the radium source is not constructed in a way
that contains the radium, there will be little ingrowth of the isotopes
down the chain, including Po-210. The next issue is that if you have a
refined radium source, presumably all the lead and bismuth and polonium
isotopes would have been left behind with the slag. This means the
Pb-210 won't come into equilibrium for some time (about 140 years, using
an old thumb rule). On the bright side, there are radium sources that
are that old, but getting them would be a non-trivial challenge).
If I were insistent on concentrating Po-210 from "natural" sources, as
opposed to going the activation route, I would look at ventilation
filters or liquid dust traps for mines. Obviously some mines would be
better for this than others.
After all that, you are left with the chemistry, which I've been told is
trick, especially as the fine powder that results is difficult to keep
contained (one person said that alpha recoil increases the spread of
contamination, but I wouldn't know). I've been told that it will crap
up a glove box no matter how careful you are, and you will never get it
clean (until it decays away).
All this is easy compared to building a nuclear reactor in order to do
activation. On the other hand, if you already have a nuclear reactor,
and all that neutron flux is just going to waste...
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of
franz.schoenhofer at chello.at
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 1:21 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List; The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
MailingList
Cc: Busby, Chris
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
Absurd and lacking any insight in the topic and on reality. Po-210 is
produced commercially as far as I know (almost) exclusively in Russian
reactors (consult Google). They have enough to spend some to the KGB.
What are "old radium tubes"? Since you have neither knowledge about
radiation protection or chemistry I wonder where you got the recipe for
separating Po-210 from radium. Radiumsources usually are not to be found
on the streets, so where do you get them from? Being a radiochemist I
would not work with the necessary quantities of radium to extract the
polonium obviously used in the murder of Litvinenko.
Franz
---- "Busby schrieb:
>
> Yes. Interesting. Everyone blamed the Russians because it was said
that only someone with access to a reactor could have put the poison
together i.e. it was not a amateur job. But it is easy to separate Po210
from old radium tubes with nitric acid and baking soda; a kitchen job,
though you'd have to be jolly careful. I think KGB would have far more
sophisticated ways of killing someone.
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Otto G. Raabe
> Sent: Sat 9/10/2011 7:38 PM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
List
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>
> September 10, 2011
>
> At London's Millenium Hotel on November 1, 2006, Alexander
> Litvinenko, a Russian defector, was poisoned with tea containing a
> large amount of polonium-210. He fell ill that very day and died
> after a long hospitalization on November 23. He told investigators
> that he had met with two former KGB agents early on the day he fell
ill.
>
--
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:25:38 -0700
From: "Baumbaugh, Joel T CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-PACIFIC, 55360"
<joel.baumbaugh at navy.mil>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
MailingList" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>, "The International
Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List"
<radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
Cc: "Busby, Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
Message-ID:
<A652B02549DCF5498E819BD80C6E8378031D1003 at nawespscez06v.nadsuswe.nads.navy.m
il>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Gentlemen,
PLEASE take this disagreement off-line... Please..... You both have
interesting posts when not "at war" w/each other. I'd hate to have to
block all of your email messages because of this obvious feud you two
have going on...
Thanks
Joel Baumbaugh
SSC-Pacific
-----Original Message-----
Chris,
How about doing some literature research -
Radiums, 228 I think" -this is sound science?
Best regards to RADSAFErs, but not to Chris Busby
Franz
---- "Busby schrieb:
>
>
> Well they originally thought it was Tl206, which has that big gamma
> line up in the 2.2MeV region because there was some weak gamma, thats
> the decay series of one of the Radiums, 228 I think. That would fit
> with a kitchen operation. But I didnt hear about any reactor gamma
> nuclide. This is from memory but its one of the Tl s Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Mark Ramsay
> Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 2:20 PM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>
> Do I not recall some gamma spec (yes gamma) was done which linked it
to reactor based production (based on impurities) ?
>
> Rgs
>
> Mark
>
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:25:38 -0700
From: "Baumbaugh, Joel T CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-PACIFIC, 55360"
<joel.baumbaugh at navy.mil>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
MailingList" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>, "The International
Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List"
<radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
Cc: "Busby, Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
Message-ID:
<A652B02549DCF5498E819BD80C6E8378031D1003 at nawespscez06v.nadsuswe.nads.navy.m
il>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Gentlemen,
PLEASE take this disagreement off-line... Please..... You both have
interesting posts when not "at war" w/each other. I'd hate to have to
block all of your email messages because of this obvious feud you two
have going on...
Thanks
Joel Baumbaugh
SSC-Pacific
-----Original Message-----
Chris,
How about doing some literature research -
Radiums, 228 I think" -this is sound science?
Best regards to RADSAFErs, but not to Chris Busby
Franz
---- "Busby schrieb:
>
>
> Well they originally thought it was Tl206, which has that big gamma
> line up in the 2.2MeV region because there was some weak gamma, thats
> the decay series of one of the Radiums, 228 I think. That would fit
> with a kitchen operation. But I didnt hear about any reactor gamma
> nuclide. This is from memory but its one of the Tl s Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Mark Ramsay
> Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 2:20 PM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>
> Do I not recall some gamma spec (yes gamma) was done which linked it
to reactor based production (based on impurities) ?
>
> Rgs
>
> Mark
>
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 12:48:52 -0400
From: Brent Rogers <brent.rogers at optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
MailingList" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
Message-ID: <33201DEA-8033-4B57-800B-5ECBB5DC2152 at optusnet.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mike
Would you consider counting automotive air filters?
<wink>
Brent Rogers
Sydney Australia
TDY Washington DC
Sent from my iPad
On 12/09/2011, at 12:24, "Brennan, Mike (DOH)" <Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV>
wrote:
> I am glad that my understanding of the situation agrees with Franz's
> opinion, as his expertise is far greater than mine (no irony implied;
> I'm just a sample grabber who reads stuff). Processing Po-210 from
> radium sources has several non-trivial issues that need to be
> considered. The first is that the decay product of radium is radon,
> which is a noble gas. If the radium source is not constructed in a way
> that contains the radium, there will be little ingrowth of the isotopes
> down the chain, including Po-210. The next issue is that if you have a
> refined radium source, presumably all the lead and bismuth and polonium
> isotopes would have been left behind with the slag. This means the
> Pb-210 won't come into equilibrium for some time (about 140 years, using
> an old thumb rule). On the bright side, there are radium sources that
> are that old, but getting them would be a non-trivial challenge).
>
> If I were insistent on concentrating Po-210 from "natural" sources, as
> opposed to going the activation route, I would look at ventilation
> filters or liquid dust traps for mines. Obviously some mines would be
> better for this than others.
>
> After all that, you are left with the chemistry, which I've been told is
> trick, especially as the fine powder that results is difficult to keep
> contained (one person said that alpha recoil increases the spread of
> contamination, but I wouldn't know). I've been told that it will crap
> up a glove box no matter how careful you are, and you will never get it
> clean (until it decays away).
>
> All this is easy compared to building a nuclear reactor in order to do
> activation. On the other hand, if you already have a nuclear reactor,
> and all that neutron flux is just going to waste...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of
> franz.schoenhofer at chello.at
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 1:21 PM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List; The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
> MailingList
> Cc: Busby, Chris
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>
> Absurd and lacking any insight in the topic and on reality. Po-210 is
> produced commercially as far as I know (almost) exclusively in Russian
> reactors (consult Google). They have enough to spend some to the KGB.
> What are "old radium tubes"? Since you have neither knowledge about
> radiation protection or chemistry I wonder where you got the recipe for
> separating Po-210 from radium. Radiumsources usually are not to be found
> on the streets, so where do you get them from? Being a radiochemist I
> would not work with the necessary quantities of radium to extract the
> polonium obviously used in the murder of Litvinenko.
>
> Franz
>
>
>
> ---- "Busby schrieb:
>>
>> Yes. Interesting. Everyone blamed the Russians because it was said
> that only someone with access to a reactor could have put the poison
> together i.e. it was not a amateur job. But it is easy to separate Po210
> from old radium tubes with nitric acid and baking soda; a kitchen job,
> though you'd have to be jolly careful. I think KGB would have far more
> sophisticated ways of killing someone.
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Otto G. Raabe
>> Sent: Sat 9/10/2011 7:38 PM
>> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List
>> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>>
>> September 10, 2011
>>
>> At London's Millenium Hotel on November 1, 2006, Alexander
>> Litvinenko, a Russian defector, was poisoned with tea containing a
>> large amount of polonium-210. He fell ill that very day and died
>> after a long hospitalization on November 23. He told investigators
>> that he had met with two former KGB agents early on the day he fell
> ill.
>>
> --
> Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
> Habicherg. 31/7
> A-1160 Vienna
> Austria
> mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
> visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
------------------------------
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