[ RadSafe ] Biogeochemistry

Thu Feb 16 23:01:01 CST 2012

Dear Jerry:

There are 1/2 billion dollars worth of crops produced in the area - you do
the math.  Given that the Central Valley in California has a similar
hydrogeological  / geochemical setting with localized
uranium features associated with redox traps, then that's another target
for a similar investigation.  The San Luis Valley produces a large quantity
of potatoes - so it could become, pardon the pun, a 'hot potato' issue.
 The farmers of the area happen to be pretty handy with firearms, and this
could impact their livelihood (taking their view), so their trigger fingers
could get 'itchy'.  They might be a might bit nervous about anyone doing a
study. I have done litigation investigations in some corners of the USA
where I was escorted by armed officers during the entire duration of the
study.

Yes, I think that the results could be highly unpopular, but the realities
are that there is likely to be minimal risk. The worst case scenario that I
can imagine would be a number of sections of land would be removed from
active production.  For me it is odd to think that whereas mining is highly
regulated and the 'incidental' production and farming use of contaminated
waters would be a serious offence, the farming community
is virtually insulated legally from identical consequences.

I tried to get funding support a number of years ago - around 2004, but
could find no one really interested. If you, or others in the RadSafe
community know of a source of funding, please tell me and I could increase
my pay from -zero- on this project to something I could live on.  The
analytical budget for the soil / water samples are not insignificant.

Dan ii

Dan W McCarn, Geologist
108 Sherwood Blvd
Los Alamos, NM 87544-3425
+1-505-672-2014 (Home – New Mexico)
+1-505-670-8123 (Mobile - New Mexico)
HotGreenChile at gmail.com (Private email) HotGreenChile at gmail dot com

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Jerry Cohen <jjc105 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dan,
> It seems to me that the study you are considering on the transport of
> hazardous  minerals could gain some very valuable information. So why
> aren't you
> getting funding support? Hay isn't very expensive. Do the bureaucrats fear
> the
> you mightobtain some politically unpopular information?? Good Luck,
> Jerry
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dan McCarn <hotgreenchile at gmail.com>
> To: Jerry Cohen <jjcohen at prodigy.net>; The International Radiation
> Protection
> (Health Physics) Mailing List <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>; Malcolm
> Siegel
> <msiegel51 at yahoo.com>; Malcolm D Siegel <mdsiegel at unm.edu>
> Sent: Thu, February 16, 2012 1:51:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Biogeochemistry
>
> Dear Jerry:
>
> I worked on the peer review of the YM Site Characterization Report years
> ago.  I was disappointed that there was not more information
> on comparative 'natural' risk including that of pre-existing uranium
> features or areas in the flow path of the YM computer models that did not
> address published high favorability for surficial uranium deposits
> (non-pedogenic calcrete type). In fact, there was no mention of these
> features in the Site Characterization report nor geochemical traps that
> would interact with the solute flow in the far-field.
>
> There are potential models of concentration / anthropogene remobilization
> (e.g. via high volume irrigation) that were not considered.
>
> I published on one such model (indirectly) looking at induced anthropogene
> remobilization of uranium / radium via high-volume wells in proximity to
> from regional redox-controlled roll-fronts in the Alamosa Basin. This paper
> can be found in an IAEA proceedings:
>
> McCarn, Dan W. (2004): Scoping Calculations: Natural and anthropogenic
> multi-pathway risks associated with naturally occurring uranium
> mineralization in aquifers;
> *IAEA-TECDOC-1396<
> http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/te_1396_web.pdf>
> *, pp.289-315.
>
> http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/te_1396_web.pdf
>
> I am currently preparing to obtain additional data from the project area to
> support the project and additional risk calculations.  I will be doing a
> gamma survey (250-500 line kilometres) across the surface expression of the
> regional redox front to determine the amount of radium deposited
> in agricultural soils.  The survey will inform a soil / water sampling
> program and perhaps samples of crops.  Since the area has been actively
> irrigated for over 100 years from groundwater, I feel there is a strong
> likelihood of significant build-up of radium and perhaps other redox
> sensitive elements (Se, As ,Mo etc.)  Whereas radium is not 'redox
> sensitive', it is incorporated in both uraninite (UO2) and coffinite
> (U(SiO4
> )0.9(OH)0.4), the most likely uranium minerals present.  Uranium itself
> will likely not concentrate in the soil zone because of the highly
> oxidizing conditions of desert soils. I have data from an analogy of the
> San Luis Valley in Kazakhstan, where I have detailed trenching data in
> similar soils.  The uranium tends to be easily mobilized vertically whereas
> the radium and progeny tends to remain in the upper soil zone.
>
> Since this work is being funded from my own back pocket, it will probably
> go a bit slower than a commercial operation! But I'm starting to test my
> data collection systems and will be employing my horse for the gamma
> survey.  He only charges me hay & oats!
>
> Dan ii
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Jerry Cohen <jjc105 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Dear Dan,
> > Several years ago, I proposed a study for the DOE comparing the potential
> > risk resulting from the existence, in the state of Nevada, of areas with
> > heavy concentrations of naturally occuring Arsenic as compared with the
> > potential health effects from the Yucca mountain Waste Repository. I was
> > informed that such information would be irrelavent. Apparenty, the
> > rejection of YM had nothing to do with it's potential risk. Given this
> > situation, I wonder why the government pursued the project, spending
> > enormous budgets on health effects studies, despite the sure knowledge
> that
> > the project would fail--and the idea that naturally occurring mineral
> > formations in the state were more dangerous than a nuclear waste
> repository
> > was more than the DOE could handle.
> > Jerry Cohen
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* Dan McCarn <hotgreenchile at gmail.com>
> > *To:* Jerry Cohen <jjcohen at prodigy.net>; The International Radiation
> > Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> > *Sent:* Thu, February 16, 2012 12:22:09 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [ RadSafe ] Biogeochemistry
> >
> > Dear Jerry:
> >
> > It was part of the "Greening of the USGS" which occurred during the
> > Clinton administration.  Basically, all geologists who were resource
> > analysts, minerals geologists and their ilk were forced-out of the USGS
> to
> > make way for others.
> >
> > I am familiar with their work in the 80s, but they all disappeared.
> >
> > Dan ii
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Jerry Cohen <jjc105 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Dan,
> >> Several years ago, as I recall, the USGS, had a group, I believe in
> >> Denver, who
> >> studied the health effects of naturally occuring toxic materials
> (arsenic,
> >> mercury, radium, etc.) They did some interesting work and published a
> >> monograph
> >> on the subject. Somehow this area of study fell out favor and the group
> no
> >> longer exists. Are you familiar with this work, and do you know what
> >> happened?
> >> Jerry Cohen
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Dan McCarn <hotgreenchile at gmail.com>
> >> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
> >> <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> >> Sent: Thu, February 16, 2012 3:35:13 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Theme session on Geohealth at the 2012 Rocky
> >> Mountain
> >> Section GSA meeting.
> >>
> >> Dear Malcolm:
> >>
> >> I will be submitting an abstract - I'll have it to you tomorrow.
> >>
> >> Dan ii
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Dan W McCarn <hotgreenchile at gmail.com
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > ** ** ** ** **
> >> >
> >> > Dear RADSAFE colleagues:****
> >> >
> >> > ** **
> >> >
> >> > Malcolm Siegel of the **School** of **Medicine**, ****University** of
> >> **New
> >> > Mexico**** has asked me to forward the following meeting announcement
> to
> >> > RADSAFE:  GSA is the Geological Society of America.****
> >> >
> >> > ** **
> >> >
> >> > Please respond to Malcolm directly at mdsiegel at unm.edu ****
> >> >
> >> > ** **
> >> >
> >> > Dan ii -- Dan W McCarn, Geologist ****
> >> >  ------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > ** **
> >> >
> >> > Dear Colleagues:****
> >> >
> >> > ** **
> >> >
> >> > Please consider submitting an abstract to the following Theme Session
> on
> >> > Geohealth at the 2012 Rocky Mountain Section GSA meeting.****
> >> >
> >> > ** **
> >> >
> >> > T-5. Arsenic, Uranium and Radionuclides: Geology and Health Impacts in
> >> > the Southwest and Rocky Mountains Convener: Malcolm Siegel, School of
> >> > Medicine, ****University** of **New Mexico********
> >> >
> >> > ** **
> >> >
> >> > Concentrations of carcinogenic arsenic and radium and nephrotoxic
> >> uranium
> >> > are naturally high in rocks and waters in many parts of the Navajo
> >> Nation
> >> > and in the Southwest and **Rocky Mountain States**. Development of
> >> > mineral resources and urbanization has led to significant pollution in
> >> > several areas. Populations may be exposed to these substances via
> >> > inhalation, ingestion and dermal routes. Evaluation of health effects
> >> due
> >> > to past and potential future exposures has political, social and
> >> economic
> >> > implications and requires collaboration among earth scientists, civil
> >> > engineers and health professionals. This session will bring together
> >> > researchers from academic, government and private agencies to examine
> >> > various dimensions of topics such as past and proposed uranium mining
> >> and
> >> > the impact of new drinking water regulations for arsenic and
> >> radionuclides
> >> > on communities in this area.  The meeting will be held May 9-12 in
> ****
> >> > Albuquerque**, **NM****. The link to the meeting is:****
> >> >
> >> > ** **
> >> >
> >> > http://www.geosociety.org/Sections/rm/2012mtg/****
> >> >
> >> > ** **
> >> >
> >> > Abstracts can be submitted until Feb 14, 2012 at: ****
> >> >
> >> > http://www.geosociety.org/Sections/rm/2012mtg/techProg.htm****
> >> >
> >> > ** **
> >> >
> >> > Please note that I have moved from Sandia National Labs to the
> >> ****School*
> >> > * of **Medicine**** at UNM; my new contact information is below.
> Thank
> >> > you and Happy New Year.  ****
> >> >
> >> > ** **
> >> >
> >> > Malcolm   ****
> >> >
> >> > ** **
> >> >
> >> > Malcolm Siegel, Ph.D., M.P.H. ****
> >> >
> >> > Environmental Geochemistry and Epidemiology ****
> >> >
> >> > Department of Internal Medicine Division of Epidemiology and
> >> Biostatistics
> >> > ****
> >> >
> >> > ****University** of **New Mexico**** mdsiegel at unm.edu
> >> msiegel51 at yahoo.com
> >> > 505-688-3716****
> >> >
> >> > ** **
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dan ii
> >>
> >> Dan W McCarn, Geologist
> >> 108 Sherwood Blvd
> >> Los Alamos, NM 87544-3425
> >> +1-505-672-2014 (Home – New Mexico)
> >> +1-505-670-8123 (Mobile - New Mexico)
> >> HotGreenChile at gmail.com (Private email) HotGreenChile at gmail dot com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
> >>
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> >> the
> >> RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
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> >>
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> >> visit:
> >> http://health.phys.iit.edu
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> >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
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