[ RadSafe ] [EXTERNAL] Re: Stolen cobalt-60 found in Mexico; curious thi...
JPreisig at aol.com
JPreisig at aol.com
Fri Dec 6 12:00:55 CST 2013
Doug/Radsafe,
I sure wouldn't like to see someone stealing a pipeline testing source
or something like it, and then having lunch next to the source.
Joe Preisig
In a message dated 12/6/2013 12:58:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
JAitken at slb.com writes:
We are all, unfortunately, in purely speculative mode....
However, if the thieves have indeed been exposed to harmful (or lethal)
doses of radiation, I hope the fact gets plenty of news coverage. Which might
help deter other people from messing with stuff they do not understand....
(including, but not limited to, persons with political/terrorist agendas)
Regards
Doug
____________________________________________________________________________
_______
Doug Aitken
QHSE Advisor, Schlumberger D&M Operations Support
Cell Phone: 713-562-8585
(alternate e-mail: doug.aitken at slb.com )
Mail:
Schlumberger, Drilling & Measurements HQ,
300 Schlumberger Drive, MD15,
Sugar Land, Texas 77478
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of JPreisig at aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 11:49 AM
To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] [EXTERNAL] Re: Stolen cobalt-60 found in Mexico;
curious thi...
Hmmmmm,
I can make hand calculations and use my old copy of the Rad Health
Handbook also. But it all doesn't mean squat unless one can figure out how long
the thieves stayed in the vicinity of the exposed Co-60 source. Have the
thieves checked into local hospitals or have they gone home to die???
Was puke found in the vicinity of the exposed source??? (Sorry, I
couldn't think of a nice word for puke...).
Someone with a working copy of MCNP might be able to compute actual doses
from the source. I suspect one could get the source manufacturer
schematics of the source geometry (unexposed and exposed) somewhere. Have fun!!!
Joe Preisig
In a message dated 12/5/2013 5:33:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
DThompson3 at ameren.com writes:
Wow. Not to pick on Joe specifically, but there have been several posts
with quite a bit of "shooting from the hip" on dose rates from sources.
I have a Radiological Health Handbook (USDHEW-1970) book at my desk,
well-worn with ratty tabs.
On Page 131, it says the Gamma Constant for Co-60 is 1.32 R/Hr - Ci @ 1
meter.
So. for 90 Ci Cobalt 60 source, you have ~120 R/Hr. For 3000 Ci, you
have
~4,000 R/Hr. This is at one meter. So, at a foot, those would be about
9
times that....... 90 Ci = ~ 1100 R/hr, while 3000 Ci = ~36,000 R/hr.
If you use the old 6CEN approach, for a 90 Ci source that is 6 x 90 x
1.25
x 2 = ~1350 R/hr (at a foot). For 3000 Ci, that is ~45,000 R/HR.
Reasonable correlation.
I have a Shleien (1992) as well (it is NOT well worn nor is it tabbed).
It has gamma ray dose constants on page 167, but they are in MBq and
Sieverts. I'm a happy dinosaur with Rem and Curies, so I didn't do any
calculations.........
Grin.
Dewey
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Joe Nardi
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 3:14 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] [EXTERNAL] Re: Stolen cobalt-60 found in Mexico;
curious thieves likely doomed
Much of what is being discussed is still speculation since it is not
really known how long the unit has decayed. If it 30 years then only about 3%
of the original activity will remain. If the original activity is 3,000
Ci then the remaining source would only be about 90 Ci and it would only
be a category 2 shipment. The US rules for category 2 would not require
real time tracking of the vehicle but only package tracking so you would
know that it had not arrive at the next point at the expected time. I would
say that for this incident there was early knowledge that something had
happened and that is the best one could expect within the US regulations
for a category 2 source.
It is not clear to me that the persons involved are "doomed" but I would
rather tell the news media that and see if the individuals involved are
scared and seek help. At 90 Ci the source would only be reading about 21
R/min at 1 foot so it is not likely that they would have received a fatal
dose.
But as I said this is all speculation. I am going to be interested to
read the detailed accounts of this incident.
A. Joseph Nardi
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Wasiolek, Maryla
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 3:30 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] [EXTERNAL] Re: Stolen cobalt-60 found in Mexico;
curious thieves likely doomed
In the USA it would be unlikely for a truck with Category 1 quantity of
radioactive material to have gone missing. See 10 CFR 37.79, Requirements
for physical protection of category 1 and category 2 quantities of
radioactive material during shipment.
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part037/part037-0079.html
M. Wasiolek
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Perle, Sandy
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 12:47 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [ RadSafe ] Stolen cobalt-60 found in Mexico;
curious thieves likely doomed
Hello John,
I would not presume that this kind of incident or others would not happen
here in the USA or any other country. Things do happen and we have seen
those things happen in the past. I would never state that there is no
potential for a source to be unattended. For instance, there are numerous
notices where department of transportation sources are stolen from government
vehicles.
Regards,
Sandy
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 5, 2013, at 11:42 AM, "Joel.Love" <Joel.Love at carle.com> wrote:
>
> Why would it not happen here? The driver(s) were held up at gun-point.
Now, I do all I can to protect my hospital from incidents but I'm not
sure I wouldn't hand over all my less than 1 Ci of I-125 to someone with a
gun in my nose.
>
> Joe Love Radiation Safety Officer
> joel.love at carle.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of
> JOHN.RICH at sargentlundy.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 1:35 PM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List
> Cc: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Stolen cobalt-60 found in Mexico; curious
> thieves likely doomed
>
> Radsafers
> I tuned in to this one late, but if it hasn't already been discussed,
> we
need to be prepared to tell the media why it won't happen here. It would
seem that a shipment like this would not be left unattended so that theft
is "highly unlikely". Not trying to start a new thread, but I haven't
enough experience in source shipment to be able to explain how we prevent
this kind of theft.
>
> So, a short paragraph would be much appreciated Thx in advance -
> -jmr
>
> John Rich
> 312-269-3768
>
>
>
> From: JPreisig at aol.com
> To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> Date: 12/05/2013 01:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Stolen cobalt-60 found in Mexico;
curious
> thieves likely doomed
> Sent by: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
>
>
>
> Hmmmm,
>
> So, what's the deal ---> these Co-60 thiefs couldn't read the
warnings on the Cobalt source??? Ouch.
> They actually exposed the source --- how unfortunate. I guess if
> they are
>
> lucky they will check into a local Hospital with gastrointestinal
radiation syndrome or worse. I guess they walked away from the scene of
the crime.
>
> The various forms of radiation sickness are described, I think, in
> Eric
Hall's book on Radiobiology/Biophysics.
>
> Joe Preisig
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/5/2013 2:09:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jim.hardeman at gmail.com writes:
>
> Oops -- unit error. I meant ~700 R/min. Sorry about that.
>
> Jim
>
>
>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:56 PM, <roseb at gdls.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jim:
>>
>> Your math is a bit off, the specific gamma-ray constant for Co-60
>> is
> 1.37
>> R/hr @ 1 m. The exposure rate from a 3,000 Ci Co-60 source would
>> be
> much
>> higher than 700 rad/h at 1 ft (~0.33 m).
>>
>> Henry
>>
>> Boyd H. Rose, CM, CIH, CHMM, EI
>> Sr. Safety and Environmental Engineering Specialist Corporate
>> Radiation Safety Officer General Dynamics Land Systems
>> 38500 Mound Road
>> Mail Zone 436-10-75
>> Sterling Heights , MI 48310-3269
>> Tel: 586 825 4503
>> Fax: 586 825 4015
>> E-mail: roseb at gdls.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim Hardeman <jim.hardeman at gmail.com> Sent by:
>> radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu
>> 12/05/2013 01:47 PM
>> Please respond to
>> "The International Radiation Protection \(Health Physics\) Mailing
> List"
>> <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
>>
>>
>> To
>> "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List"
>> <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
>> cc
>>
>> Subject
>> Re: [ RadSafe ] Stolen cobalt-60 found in Mexico; curious thieves
> likely
>> doomed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Doomed? Probably so. If I did my math right, they would have been
> looking
>> at ~700 rad/h at a foot.
>>
>> The question is, will medical personnel be able to make a proper
> diagnosis
>> of ARS?
>>
>> Jim Hardeman -- retired :-)
>> Decatur, GA
>> jim.hardeman at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Boing, Lawrence E.
>>> <lboing at anl.gov>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That's what I read somewhere yesterday as well ....3,000 Curies....
>>>
>>> L Boing
>>> lboing at anl.gov
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu [mailto:
>>> radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Lemieux, Bryan P
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 12:10 PM
>>> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
>>> Mailing
> List
>>> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Stolen cobalt-60 found in Mexico; curious
>> thieves
>>> likely doomed
>>>
>>> I read 3000 Ci.....
>>>
>>> On Dec 5, 2013 11:39 AM, "Estabrooks, H Bates (IHK)" <
>>> estabrookshb at y12.doe.gov> wrote:
>>> Has anyone revealed/published the activity of the source?
>>>
>>> Bates Estabrooks
>>> Y-12 NSC
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu [mailto:
>>> radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Harrison - CDPHE,
> Tony
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 11:31 AM
>>> To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
>>> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Stolen cobalt-60 found in Mexico; curious
> thieves
>>> likely doomed
>>>
>>> MEXICO CITY - The carjackers who set off international alarm bells
>>> by absconding with a truckload of highly radioactive material most
> likely
>> had
>>> no idea what they were stealing and will probably die soon from
>> exposure,
>>> Mexican authorities said at the end of a brief national scare...
>>>
>>> The cobalt-60 was found, removed from its casing, in a rural area
> near
>> the
>>> town of Hueypoxtla about 25 miles from where the truck was stolen.
>> Jimenez
>>> suspected that curiosity got the better of the thieves and they
> opened
>> the
>>> box. So far the carjackers have not been arrested, but authorities
>> expect
>>> they will not live long.
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/stolen-cobalt-60-found-in-mexico-c
>
> urious-thieves-likely-doomed/2013/12/05/262ef990-5d66-11e3-8d24-31c016
> b976b2_st
>
> ory.html?hpid=z1
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tony Harrison, MSPH
>>>
>>> Inorganic & Radiochemistry Supervisor
>>>
>>> Laboratory Services Division
>>>
>>> Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment
>>>
>>> 8100 Lowry Blvd.
>>>
>>> Denver, CO 80230
>>>
>>> 303-692-3046 |
>> tony.harrison at state.co.us____________________________________________
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