[ RadSafe ] The Plowshare program got a "bum rap"

Tue May 28 23:33:57 CDT 2013

you too Dr. Tsang.

On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 9:18 PM, <francistsang at cox.net> wrote:

> Dear Mr. Lee,
>
> The issue pertaining to Former Soviet Unions Plowshare is irrelevant to
> what we are discussion here @ the RadSafe forum.   Have you spent part of
> your life in that of the world to understand what they did?  If you have
> not, then you should refrain from commenting and making seemingly
> uncorrelated statements that are irrelevant to the issues.....
> Have a good evening
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Lee <davidleesafe at gmail.com>
> Sender: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 21:08:17
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List<
> radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Reply-To: "The International Radiation Protection \(Health Physics\)
> Mailing
>         List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The Plowshare program got a "bum rap"
>
> Dear Sir,
>
> Stop attacking here.
> I am ignoring your comments and stop sending your emails to my personal
> email.
> I forgot more than you would ever know.
>
> Dave.
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 7:56 PM, David Lee <davidleesafe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Russians almost started blowing tranches to turn huge Siberian rivers
> from
> > North to the South to supply Central Asian desserts.
> > It was not nuclear issue what stopped it, it was something like rivers
> are
> > so huge water body may effect on earth rotation??? doubtful, the second
> > problem was to take water from the North then North becomes desserts.
> >
> > Nazi:
> > 1. Story is Hitler was distrustful to the idea of nuclear (science) bomb,
> > because it was associated with Jewish scientists. When, they finally
> > started, concept was to make bomb in form of reactor going critical as
> one
> > piece or may be it was Japanese concept? They were satellites, so they
> > shared info anyway.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 6:27 PM, tinyyoli <tinyyoli at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I was priveledged to work in the Plowshare program at LLNL. By far, per
> >> unit
> >> mass, nuclear exlopsives are the cheapest way of excavating and/or
> moving
> >> earth for costruction of navigable canals, highways, etc. Contained
> >> underground
> >> applications included freeing hyrocarbon resources, and storage of
> gasses
> >> and
> >> liquids, including wastes from nuclear power plants. There was much
> >> excellent
> >> science done in the program which, for security reasons cannot be
> >> discussed. Of
> >> course, the big scare tactic used by program opponents was the potential
> >> for
> >> radiation exposure to the public. If it were possible to reveal, it
> would
> >> be
> >> surprising how low public exposure levels would have been. Of course,
> >> from a
> >> politiical standpoint, ANY IS TOO MUCH. And so, the program died an
> >> untimely
> >> death.
> >> Too bad----I believe we missed a good bet
> >> Jerry Cohen
> >>
> >> With regards to the  Nazi nuclear weapons program, the best book I've
> >> read on
> >> the subject is "Heisenberg's War" - this went a long ways towards
> >> convincing me
> >> that the Nazis (including Hitler) were avidly pursuing nuclear weapons
> >> and that
> >> Heisenberg and other scientists helped delay matters because of their
> >> concerns.
> >>
> >> With regards to the Plowshares Program, it's easy to scoff today - and
> >> some of
> >> the schemes certainly seem nutty with the benefit of hindsight. But at a
> >> time
> >> when nuclear weapons were viewed as being really big explosives (and
> >> lacked the
> >> emotional and political overtones of today) such plans seemed reasonable
> >> - a lot
> >> of people wanted desperately for something good to come from devices
> that
> >> made
> >> such horrible weapons. But as we learned more - and as we learned more
> >> about the
> >> health and environmental effects of the things - everyone figured out
> >> that the
> >> cost might be too high.
> >>
> >> I'm assuming that the "implanting plutonium into patients' hearts"
> refers
> >> to
> >> plutonium-powered pacemakers - another idea that seemed to be reasonable
> >> at the
> >> time since it meant that the rudimentary pacemakers of the day wouldn't
> >> need
> >> additional surgery to replace batteries.
> >>
> >> To me the question isn't about the soundness (or stupidity) of this work
> >> as we
> >> see it today so much as the intent of those proposing the projects in
> >> light of
> >> what they knew at the time. In the Plowshares Program and the
> >> plutonium-powered
> >> pacemakers I see programs that were well-intentioned based on what we
> >> knew at
> >> the time - I guess we could call them "noble blunders."
> >>
> >>
> >> And then there are plenty of other things that are just boneheaded....
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> >> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Roger Helbig
> >> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 4:44 AM
> >> To: RADSAFE
> >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: [New post] New Book: A Short History of
> >> NuclearFolly
> >>
> >> I really doubt that Nazi scientists knew how to and had the capability
> to
> >> make an atomic weapon but "chose" not to.  I wonder what other fiction
> >> that
> >> Herzog might have buried in this book.  Has anyone had the opportunity
> to
> >> read it?
> >>
> >> Roger Helbig
> >>
> >> (see last line of the following news release)
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: nuclear-news <comment-reply at wordpress.com>
> >> Date: Sat, May 25, 2013 at 12:53 AM
> >> Subject: [New post] New Book: A Short History of Nuclear Folly
> >>   Christina MacPherson posted: "A Short History of Nuclear
> >> Folly [Hardcover]
> >>
> >>
> http://www.amazon.com/A-Short-History-Nuclear-Folly/dp/1612191738/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369261455&sr=8-1&keywords=short+history+of+nuclear+folly
> >>
> >> Release
> >> date: April 30, 2013 In the spirit of Dr."
> >>       New post on *nuclear-news*
> >> <http://nuclear-news.net/author/christinamacpherson/>  New Book: A
> Short
> >> History of Nuclear
> >> Folly<
> >>
> http://nuclear-news.net/2013/05/25/new-book-a-short-history-of-nuclear-folly/
> >> >
> >>
> >> by
> >> Christina MacPherson <
> http://nuclear-news.net/author/christinamacpherson/
> >> >
> >>
> >> *<
> >>
> http://antinuclearinfo.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/book-nuclear-folly.gif
> >> >A
> >> Short History of Nuclear Folly [Hardcover]
> >>
> >>
> http://www.amazon.com/A-Short-History-Nuclear-Folly/dp/1612191738/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369261455&sr=8-1&keywords=short+history+of+nuclear+folly
> >>
> >>   *Release date: April 30, 2013
> >> *In the spirit of Dr. Strangelove and The Atomic Café, a blackly
> sardonic
> >> people's history of atomic blunders and near-misses revealing the
> >> hushed-up
> >> and forgotten episodes in which the great powers gambled with
> >> catastrophe* Rudolph
> >> Herzog, the acclaimed author of *Dead Funny*, presents a devastating
> >> account of history's most irresponsible uses of nuclear technology. From
> >> the rarely-discussed nightmare of "Broken Arrows" (40 nuclear weapons
> lost
> >> during the Cold War) to "Operation Plowshare" (a proposal to use nuclear
> >> bombs for large engineering projects, such as a the construction of a
> >> second Panama Canal using 300 H-Bombs), Herzog focuses in on
> >> long-forgotten
> >> nuclear projects that nearly led to disaster.
> >>
> >> In an unprecedented people's history, Herzog digs deep into archives,
> >> interviews nuclear scientists, and collects dozens of rare photos. He
> >> explores the "accidental" drop of a Nagasaki-type bomb on a train
> >> conductor's home, the implanting of plutonium into patients' hearts, and
> >> the invention of wild tactical nukes, including weapons designed to kill
> >> enemy astronauts.
> >>
> >> Told in a riveting narrative voice, Herzog-the son of filmmaker Werner
> >> Herzog-also draws on childhood memories of the final period of the Cold
> >> War
> >> in Germany, the country once seen as the nuclear battleground for NATO
> and
> >> the Warsaw Pact countries, and discusses evidence that Nazi scientists
> >> knew
> >> how to make atomic weaponry . . . and chose not to.
> >>   *Christina MacPherson<
> >> http://nuclear-news.net/author/christinamacpherson/>
> >> * | May 25, 2013 at 7:52 am | Categories: resources -
> >> print<http://nuclear-news.net/?cat=12949297>,
> >> Resources -audiovicual <http://nuclear-news.net/?cat=39132860> | URL:
> >> http://wp.me/phgse-d9I
> >>
> >>                   Comment
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *Trouble clicking?* Copy and paste this URL into your browser:
> >>
> >>
> http://nuclear-news.net/2013/05/25/new-book-a-short-history-of-nuclear-folly/
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> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>
> >> From: "KARAM, PHILIP" <ANDREW.KARAM at nypd.org>
> >> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
> >> <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> >> Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 5:23:15 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Fwd: [New post] New Book: A Short History of
> >> NuclearFolly
> >> _______________________________________________
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