[ RadSafe ] Global Warming

Fri May 30 12:48:50 CDT 2014

JAitken,

     Are you retiring???  Winter Haven,  Florida???  How cool.   Maybe you 
could visit GE in Largo,  Florida and watch them assemble neutron generator 
tubes.

    Joe Preisig

In a message dated 5/29/2014 6:47:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
JAitken at slb.com writes:

There is  lots of opinions out there regarding Antarctic ice. And one of 
these is the  worry that the connection between the ice shelf and land (at the 
shelf/sea  bottom) is retreating in some parts, leading to a greatly 
increased likelihood  of massive losses.
And yesterday,  this:
http://manoa.hawaii.edu/news/article.php?aId=6546

so, I am not  going to get into a discussion of "more ice or less ice",  
Arctic vs  Antarctic" ,  "global warming vs. climate change", "anthropogenic 
vs.  natural", etc.  (none of which, BTW,  have much to do with radiation  
safety.....), but it seems to me that there are plenty of serious (and not so  
serious) people out there looking at the issue. And, as usual, many  
conflicting opinions.

Only one fact I can hold on to. I just bought a  home in winter Haven, Fl. 
The mean elevation above sea level is 44 meters.  
I should be OK <G>

Regards
Doug

Doug Aitken
QHSE  Advisor, D&M Operations Support
Schlumberger Technology  Corporation

-----Original Message-----
From:  radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu  
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Brennan, Mike  (DOH)
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:24 PM
To: The International  Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ]  Global Warming

1.  While I didn't dig into the actual papers of  either the scientist 
cited by NASA or the one who said "an overall net  decrease" it is entirely 
possible that researchers can, without intending to  deceive, use different 
metrics and come up with different answers.   Maximum winter coverage, maximum 
summer coverage, some type of weighted  average, something that incorporates 
thickness, or something that includes a  factor for ice on the continent are 
all likely to be useful measurements,  depending on what you are looking 
at.  I do think it is clear from this  quote, however, that the scientists 
that NASA thought were worth quoting on  their web site are not discounting 
climate change.

2.  I  personally find reports about droughts and other changes in weather 
patterns  to be of more interest than polar ice.  Indeed, I find changes in  
glaciers in the temperate zones to be more interesting than polar ice.   

3.  But let's say you are right, and Antarctic ice is  increasing.  Does 
that mean it is OK to burn as much coal as the people  selling coal want 
burned, or that improving our electrical grid so it is more  efficient are bad 
things?  What activities that you would agree are  justified if the ice was 
shrinking do you feel are not justified if the ice is  growing? 

-----Original Message-----
From:  radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu  
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Brian Riely
Sent:  Thursday, May 29, 2014 2:47 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection  (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Global  Warming

What you wrote does not address your statement that there is  "an overall 
net decrease" in ice.

Show me a credible report that proves  NASA  data for 2012 and 2013 is 
wrong.

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at  5:08 PM, Brennan, Mike (DOH) < 
Mike.Brennan at doh.wa.gov>  wrote:

> Just a quick response: I will try to respond more,  later.
>
> From the NASA page you cite:
>
> According  to a recent study by sea ice scientists Claire Parkinson and 
> Donald  Cavalieri of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Antarctic sea 
> ice  increased by roughly 17,100 square kilometers per year from 1979 to  
2010.
> Much of the increase, they note, occurred in the Ross Sea, with  
> smaller increases in Weddell Sea and Indian Ocean. At the same time,  
> the Bellinghausen and Amundsen Seas have lost ice. "The strong  pattern 
> of decreasing ice coverage in the Bellingshausen/Amundsen  Seas region 
> and increasing ice coverage in the Ross Sea region is  suggestive of 
> changes in atmospheric circulation," they  noted.
>
> "The year 2012 continues a long-term contrast between  the two 
> hemispheres, with decreasing sea ice coverage in the Arctic  and 
> increasing sea ice coverage in the Antarctic," Parkinson added.  "Both 
> hemispheres have considerable inter-annual variability, so that  in 
> either hemisphere, next year could have either more or less sea  ice 
> than this year. Still, the long-term trends are clear, but not  equal:
> the magnitude of the ice losses in the Arctic considerably  exceed the 
> magnitude of the ice gains in the  Antarctic."
>
> On their Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis blog,  scientists from the 
> University of Colorado wrote: "Comparing winter  and summer sea ice 
> trends for the two poles is problematic since  different processes are in 
effect.
> During summer, surface melt and  ice-albedo feedbacks are in effect; 
> winter processes include snowfall  on the sea ice, and wind. Small 
> changes in winter extent may be a  more mixed signal than the loss of 
> summer sea ice extent. An  expansion of winter Antarctic ice could be 
> due to cooling, winds, or  snowfall, whereas Arctic summer sea ice 
> decline is more closely  linked to decadal climate warming."
>
> Also, bear in mind that  climate change is not the same as universal 
> global  warming.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:  radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu [mailto:
>  radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Brian Riely
> Sent:  Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:25 PM
> To: The International Radiation  Protection (Health Physics) Mailing 
> List
> Subject: Re: [  RadSafe ] Global Warming
>
> According to  NASA
>
>
>
> *In late September 2013, the ice  surrounding Antarctica reached its 
> annual winter maximum and set a  new record. Sea ice extended over
> 19.47 million square kilometers  (7.51 million square miles) of the 
> Southern Ocean. The previous  record 
>  <http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=79369>
> of  19.44 million square kilometers was set in September  2012.*
>
>
>
>  http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=82160
>
>
>
>  So the previous record was set in September 2012, the current record 
>  was set in September 2013, and It would not be surprised if a new 
>  record is set in September 2014 since according to Der  Spiegel
>
>
>
> *Never before has there been so much  ice at this time of year since 
> measurements  began.*
>
>
>
> This time in the article refers to  April 2014.
>
>
>
> I assume that you find NASA data  credible.
>
>
>
> I would encourage you to be at least  as skeptical of the sources that 
> support your preferred position as  you are those that refute it
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> You are currently  subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a  message to RadSafe be sure to have read and 
> understood the RadSafe  rules. These can be found at:
>  http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information  on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
> visit:  http://health.phys.iit.edu
>
_______________________________________________
You  are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list

Before posting a  message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood 
the RadSafe rules.  These can be found at: 
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html

For  information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings 
visit:  http://health.phys.iit.edu  
_______________________________________________
You are currently  subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list

Before posting a message to  RadSafe be sure to have read and understood 
the RadSafe rules. These can be  found at: 
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html

For information  on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings 
visit:  http://health.phys.iit.edu

_______________________________________________
You  are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list

Before posting a  message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood 
the RadSafe rules.  These can be found at: 
http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html

For  information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings 
visit:  http://health.phys.iit.edu