[ RadSafe ] Israel and Pu: was: Re: Nuclear Weapons

Mon Mar 23 12:53:19 CDT 2015

Hi, Stewart.  

That's pretty much what I've heard.  I've also heard that Israel has since "disposed of" their nuclear weapons, and people are welcome to believe that if they choose.

I suspect the plutonium being produced was Pu-239/240, rather than Pu-238.  The process for making Pu-238 is MUCH more involved than 239, and it isn't as fissile.  238 is, however, such a good isotope for radioisotope thermoelectric generators that it's like someone wrote out the specs then created the isotope.

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of stewart farber
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 10:39 AM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: [ RadSafe ] Israel and Pu: was: Re: Nuclear Weapons

Israel built and operated a nuclear reactor at a site named Dimona starting around 1960. The US “Intelligence” agencies were essentially in the dark about what was going on until the project was quite advanced. For a time in the early 1960s it was an ongoing joke that the facility at Dimona was a “textile plant”.  See the excerpt below from the link shown:

 See:  http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/israel/documents/reveal/

It was essentially public knowledge by the late 1960s and early 1970s that Israel was one of Eberline Instrumentation’s best customers for alpha survey and measurement instrumentation  related to their handling of Pu-238 from their domestic production at their “secret” reactor.

"Dimona Revealed 

Israel started the construction work at the Dimona site sometimes in early 1958, but it took the United States intelligence community almost three long years to "discover" the site for what it was, namely, a nuclear site under construction. The final "proof" was a testimony came from a human source, Professor Henry Gomberg of the University of Michigan, a nuclear physicist who visited Israel as a consultant to the Israeli Atomic Energy Commission (IAEC). In his conversations with Israeli officials and scientists he came to the conclusion that Israel was engaged in a vast classified nuclear project, in addition to the Soreq peaceful project. He reported his conclusion to American Ambassador in Tel Aviv, Ogden Reid, to the representative of the AEC in Paris, and was debriefed by representatives of the intelligence community upon his return to Washington. In the wake of his testimony, other pieces of information concerning that site added to his findings. In early December 1960 the CIA distributed its findings to other government agencies, including the White House, State Department and congress. Dimona was revealed.
On December 7, 1960, an action on the matter was taken. The State Department summoned Israeli Ambassador and asked Israel for explanation. For the first time Dimona was placed on the table.

The late discovery of Dimona was clearly a major blunder of the American intelligence community. In comparative terms, that failure was more severe than the 1998 failure of the CIA to identify the Indian test because of both the length of time involved and because it involved the misreading of many pieces of available information. 

From an Israeli perspective, however, this failure was crucial for the survival of the nuclear project. Had the U.S. discovered Dimona soon after launching, and exerted political pressure on both France and Israel, the Dimona project might have never been completed. 

In retrospect, the late 1950s might have been the only time that the United States could have successfully pressured Israel to give up its nuclear weapons project in exchange American security guarantee, but the opportunity was not explored.”

Stewart Farber, MSPH
Farber Medical Solutions, LLC
PO Box 144
Old Saybrook, CT 06475

farber-medical.com
farber at farbermed.com
[203] 441-8433 [o]
[203] 522-2817 [m]

> On Mar 23, 2015, at 12:53 PM, Brennan, Mike (DOH) <Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV> wrote:
> 
> I do not know if Israel has nuclear weapons, though if they do I'd be surprised if they are U-235 based.  I would expect them to be plutonium based, with the Pu obtained from, shall we say, "off shore providers".  If they have them, I would expect them to be carried on air-launched missiles, as that gets the best range for complexity (think of the aircraft as a very versatile first stage).  I would be very surprised if they have submarine launched nuclear weapons because (speaking as someone who was in that particular biz) submarine launched nuclear weapons are hard to do and useful only in very specialized circumstances, none of which I believe apply to Israel.  
> 
> The Cold War worked because, while neither side liked each other very much, both sides were controlled by rational players (not that there weren't complete nutters well up in both D. C. and the Kremlin).  It is hard to tell how rational the players in the Middle East are, as playing to the extremes seems to be the winning strategy.  I am far from convinces that a preemptive strike doesn't end in "the World in Flames" with even greater inevitability than "Wait and See".  It would have sucked if the US had brought out the nukes over the Cuban Missile Crisis, because even "winning" then wouldn't have been nearly as good as what waiting got the world. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu 
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of 
> JPreisig at aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 11:14 AM
> To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Nuclear Weapons
> 
> Radsafe,
> 
>     CNN News is reporting today that Israel has 200  nuclear devices.  
> Apparently they have rocket launch capability and also  some submarine launch capability.  Guess their centrifuges have been  working steadily in time.  
> Guess these devices could level much of Iran, if  used.
> 
>     Once Iran has built 8 to 20 nuclear devices,  things will get interesting.  Apparently they have some rocket launch  capability already.  Israel is a small nation and 8-20 devices would finish  off most of Israel's major cities.  I expect Iran has some centrifuge  facilities underground that the USA or IAEA don't know about.
> 
>     I expect Israel will eventually act to take out  some of Iran's centrifuge facilities.  Soon???  It really doesn't make  sense to wait....
> 
> 
>     Joe Preisig
> 
> 
> 
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