[ RadSafe ] Israel and Pu: was: Re: Nuclear Weapons

Mon Mar 23 14:56:29 CDT 2015

Radsafe,

     Some books on Nuclear etc. physics:

     Segre
     Nero
     Kaplan (old school)
     Goldhaber et al. --- Experimental Methods of  Particle Physics
     The AEC/DOE or whatever book of Cross-Sections  (the Barn Book)...

     Joe Preisig

In a message dated 3/23/2015 1:54:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV writes:

Hi,  Stewart.  

That's pretty much what I've heard.  I've also  heard that Israel has since 
"disposed of" their nuclear weapons, and people  are welcome to believe 
that if they choose.

I suspect the plutonium  being produced was Pu-239/240, rather than Pu-238. 
 The process for  making Pu-238 is MUCH more involved than 239, and it 
isn't as fissile.   238 is, however, such a good isotope for radioisotope 
thermoelectric  generators that it's like someone wrote out the specs then created 
the  isotope.

-----Original Message-----
From:  radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu  
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of stewart  farber
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 10:39 AM
To: The International  Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: [ RadSafe ]  Israel and Pu: was: Re: Nuclear Weapons

Israel built and operated a  nuclear reactor at a site named Dimona 
starting around 1960. The US  “Intelligence” agencies were essentially in the dark 
about what was going on  until the project was quite advanced. For a time 
in the early 1960s it was an  ongoing joke that the facility at Dimona was a “
textile plant”.  See the  excerpt below from the link shown:

See:   http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/israel/documents/reveal/

It was  essentially public knowledge by the late 1960s and early 1970s that 
Israel was  one of Eberline Instrumentation’s best customers for alpha 
survey and  measurement instrumentation  related to their handling of Pu-238 
from  their domestic production at their “secret” reactor.

"Dimona Revealed  

Israel started the construction work at the Dimona site sometimes in  early 
1958, but it took the United States intelligence community almost three  
long years to "discover" the site for what it was, namely, a nuclear site  
under construction. The final "proof" was a testimony came from a human  
source, Professor Henry Gomberg of the University of Michigan, a nuclear  
physicist who visited Israel as a consultant to the Israeli Atomic Energy  
Commission (IAEC). In his conversations with Israeli officials and scientists  he 
came to the conclusion that Israel was engaged in a vast classified nuclear  
project, in addition to the Soreq peaceful project. He reported his conclusion 
 to American Ambassador in Tel Aviv, Ogden Reid, to the representative of 
the  AEC in Paris, and was debriefed by representatives of the intelligence  
community upon his return to Washington. In the wake of his testimony, other 
 pieces of information concerning that site added to his findings. In early 
 December 1960 the CIA distributed its findings to other government 
agencies,  including the White House, State Department and congress. Dimona was  
revealed.
On December 7, 1960, an action on the matter was taken. The State  
Department summoned Israeli Ambassador and asked Israel for explanation. For  the 
first time Dimona was placed on the table.

The late discovery of  Dimona was clearly a major blunder of the American 
intelligence community. In  comparative terms, that failure was more severe 
than the 1998 failure of the  CIA to identify the Indian test because of both 
the length of time involved  and because it involved the misreading of many 
pieces of available  information. 

>From an Israeli perspective, however, this failure was  crucial for the 
survival of the nuclear project. Had the U.S. discovered  Dimona soon after 
launching, and exerted political pressure on both France and  Israel, the 
Dimona project might have never been completed. 

In  retrospect, the late 1950s might have been the only time that the 
United  States could have successfully pressured Israel to give up its nuclear 
weapons  project in exchange American security guarantee, but the opportunity 
was not  explored.”

Stewart Farber, MSPH
Farber Medical Solutions,  LLC
PO Box 144
Old Saybrook, CT  06475

farber-medical.com
farber at farbermed.com
[203] 441-8433  [o]
[203] 522-2817 [m]

> On Mar 23, 2015, at 12:53 PM,  Brennan, Mike (DOH) 
<Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV> wrote:
> 
> I  do not know if Israel has nuclear weapons, though if they do I'd be 
surprised  if they are U-235 based.  I would expect them to be plutonium 
based, with  the Pu obtained from, shall we say, "off shore providers".  If they 
have  them, I would expect them to be carried on air-launched missiles, as 
that gets  the best range for complexity (think of the aircraft as a very 
versatile first  stage).  I would be very surprised if they have submarine 
launched  nuclear weapons because (speaking as someone who was in that 
particular biz)  submarine launched nuclear weapons are hard to do and useful only in 
very  specialized circumstances, none of which I believe apply to Israel.   
> 
> The Cold War worked because, while neither side liked each  other very 
much, both sides were controlled by rational players (not that  there weren't 
complete nutters well up in both D. C. and the Kremlin).   It is hard to 
tell how rational the players in the Middle East are, as playing  to the 
extremes seems to be the winning strategy.  I am far from  convinces that a 
preemptive strike doesn't end in "the World in Flames" with  even greater 
inevitability than "Wait and See".  It would have sucked if  the US had brought out 
the nukes over the Cuban Missile Crisis, because even  "winning" then 
wouldn't have been nearly as good as what waiting got the  world. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:  radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu 
>  [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of 
>  JPreisig at aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 11:14 AM
> To:  radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Nuclear  Weapons
> 
> Radsafe,
> 
>     CNN News  is reporting today that Israel has 200  nuclear devices.  
>  Apparently they have rocket launch capability and also  some submarine  
launch capability.  Guess their centrifuges have been  working  steadily in 
time.  
> Guess these devices could level much of Iran,  if  used.
> 
>     Once Iran has built 8 to 20  nuclear devices,  things will get 
interesting.  Apparently they have  some rocket launch  capability already.  
Israel is a small nation  and 8-20 devices would finish  off most of Israel's 
major cities.  I  expect Iran has some centrifuge  facilities underground that 
the USA or  IAEA don't know about.
> 
>     I expect Israel  will eventually act to take out  some of Iran's 
centrifuge  facilities.  Soon???  It really doesn't make  sense to  wait....
> 
> 
>     Joe Preisig
>  
> 
> 
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