[ RadSafe ] Fwd: Israel and Pu: was: Re: Nuclear Weapons

Thu Mar 26 11:36:40 CDT 2015

Test only

____________________________________
 From: JPreisig at aol.com
To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
Sent: 3/23/2015  3:56:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: Re: [ RadSafe ] Israel and Pu:  was: Re: Nuclear Weapons

Radsafe,

     Some books on Nuclear etc. physics:

     Segre
     Nero
     Kaplan (old school)
     Goldhaber et al. --- Experimental Methods of  Particle Physics
     The AEC/DOE or whatever book of Cross-Sections  (the Barn Book)...

     Joe Preisig

In a message dated 3/23/2015 1:54:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV writes:

Hi,  Stewart.  

That's pretty much what I've heard.  I've also  heard that Israel has since 
"disposed of" their nuclear weapons, and people  are welcome to believe 
that if they choose.

I suspect the plutonium  being produced was Pu-239/240, rather than Pu-238. 
 The process for  making Pu-238 is MUCH more involved than 239, and it 
isn't as fissile.   238 is, however, such a good isotope for radioisotope 
thermoelectric  generators that it's like someone wrote out the specs then created 
the  isotope.

-----Original Message-----
From:  radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu  
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of stewart  farber
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 10:39 AM
To: The International  Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: [ RadSafe ]  Israel and Pu: was: Re: Nuclear Weapons

Israel built and operated a  nuclear reactor at a site named Dimona 
starting around 1960. The US  “Intelligence” agencies were essentially in the dark 
about what was going on  until the project was quite advanced. For a time 
in the early 1960s it was  an ongoing joke that the facility at Dimona was a “
textile plant”.  See  the excerpt below from the link shown:

See:   http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/israel/documents/reveal/

It was  essentially public knowledge by the late 1960s and early 1970s that 
Israel  was one of Eberline Instrumentation’s best customers for alpha 
survey and  measurement instrumentation  related to their handling of Pu-238 
from  their domestic production at their “secret” reactor.

"Dimona Revealed  

Israel started the construction work at the Dimona site sometimes in  early 
1958, but it took the United States intelligence community almost  three 
long years to "discover" the site for what it was, namely, a nuclear  site 
under construction. The final "proof" was a testimony came from a human  
source, Professor Henry Gomberg of the University of Michigan, a nuclear  
physicist who visited Israel as a consultant to the Israeli Atomic Energy  
Commission (IAEC). In his conversations with Israeli officials and  scientists he 
came to the conclusion that Israel was engaged in a vast  classified nuclear 
project, in addition to the Soreq peaceful project. He  reported his 
conclusion to American Ambassador in Tel Aviv, Ogden Reid, to  the representative of 
the AEC in Paris, and was debriefed by representatives  of the intelligence 
community upon his return to Washington. In the wake of  his testimony, 
other pieces of information concerning that site added to his  findings. In 
early December 1960 the CIA distributed its findings to other  government 
agencies, including the White House, State Department and  congress. Dimona was 
revealed.
On December 7, 1960, an action on the  matter was taken. The State 
Department summoned Israeli Ambassador and asked  Israel for explanation. For the 
first time Dimona was placed on the  table.

The late discovery of Dimona was clearly a major blunder of  the American 
intelligence community. In comparative terms, that failure was  more severe 
than the 1998 failure of the CIA to identify the Indian test  because of both 
the length of time involved and because it involved the  misreading of many 
pieces of available information. 

>From an Israeli  perspective, however, this failure was crucial for the 
survival of the  nuclear project. Had the U.S. discovered Dimona soon after 
launching, and  exerted political pressure on both France and Israel, the 
Dimona project  might have never been completed. 

In retrospect, the late 1950s might  have been the only time that the 
United States could have successfully  pressured Israel to give up its nuclear 
weapons project in exchange American  security guarantee, but the opportunity 
was not  explored.”

Stewart Farber, MSPH
Farber Medical Solutions,  LLC
PO Box 144
Old Saybrook, CT  06475

farber-medical.com
farber at farbermed.com
[203] 441-8433  [o]
[203] 522-2817 [m]

> On Mar 23, 2015, at 12:53 PM,  Brennan, Mike (DOH) 
<Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV> wrote:
> 
>  I do not know if Israel has nuclear weapons, though if they do I'd be  
surprised if they are U-235 based.  I would expect them to be plutonium  
based, with the Pu obtained from, shall we say, "off shore providers".   If they 
have them, I would expect them to be carried on air-launched  missiles, as 
that gets the best range for complexity (think of the aircraft  as a very 
versatile first stage).  I would be very surprised if they  have submarine 
launched nuclear weapons because (speaking as someone who was  in that 
particular biz) submarine launched nuclear weapons are hard to do  and useful only 
in very specialized circumstances, none of which I believe  apply to Israel.  
> 
> The Cold War worked because, while  neither side liked each other very 
much, both sides were controlled by  rational players (not that there weren't 
complete nutters well up in both D.  C. and the Kremlin).  It is hard to 
tell how rational the players in  the Middle East are, as playing to the 
extremes seems to be the winning  strategy.  I am far from convinces that a 
preemptive strike doesn't end  in "the World in Flames" with even greater 
inevitability than "Wait and  See".  It would have sucked if the US had brought out 
the nukes over  the Cuban Missile Crisis, because even "winning" then 
wouldn't have been  nearly as good as what waiting got the world. 
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu  
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of 
>  JPreisig at aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 11:14 AM
> To:  radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Nuclear  Weapons
> 
> Radsafe,
> 
>     CNN  News is reporting today that Israel has 200  nuclear devices.   
> Apparently they have rocket launch capability and also  some  submarine 
launch capability.  Guess their centrifuges have been   working steadily in 
time.  
> Guess these devices could level  much of Iran, if  used.
> 
>     Once Iran  has built 8 to 20 nuclear devices,  things will get 
interesting.   Apparently they have some rocket launch  capability already.   
Israel is a small nation and 8-20 devices would finish  off most of  Israel's 
major cities.  I expect Iran has some centrifuge   facilities underground that 
the USA or IAEA don't know about.
>  
>     I expect Israel will eventually act to take  out  some of Iran's 
centrifuge facilities.  Soon???  It  really doesn't make  sense to wait....
> 
> 
>   Joe Preisig
> 
> 
> 
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