Re: radiation is radiation? lochbaum

[Norman & Karen Cohen <norco@bellatlantic.net>]

Hi Ted
My comments below

Ted de Castro wrote:

> With all due respect Ruth - and I do highly respect your opinions and
> input.
>
> I am beginning to see some of Norm's confusion - even though I most
> certainly do not agree with him.

> The answers are dancing all around his questions.
>
> I think maybe he understands that C-14 whether natural or manmade is
> indistiguishable.
> -------- yes, C14 is C14 -----------

>
> I believe the point is that in the absence on any manmade isotopes we
> would have no I-131 or Sr-90 - and thus it is the human efforts that
> have put those there.  AND that is why the TF project is using Sr-90 as
> a marker or indicator and NOT - as some have suggested - that they are
> alledging that the amount of Sr-90 found is somehow harmful in and of
> itself.
> ---------  Ted, that is my understanding of the TF Project. Their thinking then
> goes: if Sr-90 is there, and if it comes from nuke plant emissions, then so
> should be other isotopes from

nuke plants. And its the total amount of low level nuke plant emissions over a
period of time that has health effects, including the synergistic effect with
other environmental toxins------


>
> I believe that their point is EXACTLY that manmade is indistinguishable
> from natural for identical isotopes - the only difference being in the
> mix.  Thus if a marker typical of a reactor emmission and NOT naturally
> occurring is present - then it is reasonable to presume that it is
> accompanied by other manmade isotopes not so easily distinguished - but
> none the less ADDED.
> -------- yes -----------

>
> What we need to tell Norm is - how much isotope X is natural and how
> much is manmade (I don't know those number - but many here do).
> ---- but sr-90 is all manmade. The arguments I read on this list are whether or
> not the sr90 the TF is finding is fallout or nuke plants. ------------

>
> And YES - Iodine does accumulate in the thyroid - but the thyroid is
> relatively radio resistant and the amount that is released by reactors
> is such that positive effects have not been demonstrated.  And the
> amount necessary to cause damage would be so high it would be easily
> detectable.
>
> Norm in turn needs to understand the difference between demonstrable
> FACT and opinion.  He treats all as opinions without regards for
> backing.  This may work in a court of law where what passes for "proof"
> is merely persuasion.  BUT does NOT pass for proof in the scientific
> arena.  He needs to understand that when we say FACT we mean it is
> repeatably demonstrable by experiment - NOT the findings of a lone
> researcher that no one else has been able to confirm.
> ------ I think that's a bit strong. I hope that I am being careful in how I
> qualify the TF Project as an investigation, not fact.-------------

>
> Norm also needs to understand statistics a bit better.  I think he has a
> basic grasp - but NOT a thorough understanding.
> - Never took statistics in college. sorry!   :)  ------------

>
> This business is a LOT of numbers and that is the key to understanding
> MUCH of this.  There is a large "grey area" - which is NOT to say there
> is a large UNKNOWN area - but just a large area where there is not a
> certainty of effect or no effect - but a probability of an effect.  This
> is the near background area.  This is the whole discussion the
> threshold.
>
> BUT - to answer the direct questions of Norm and others we need direct
> answers in simple language.  Once we have answered the direct question -
> THEN we may provide additional clarification.
>

--------- I'd also suggest that answering my questions in language as
non-scientific but still
accurate as possible will also help you communicate 'your side' to the public
-------

Thanks
Norm


Coalition for Peace and Justice and the UNPLUG Salem Campaign; 321 Barr Ave.,
Linwood, NJ 08221; 609-601-8537 or 609-601-8583 (8583: fax, answer machine);
norco@bellatlantic.net;  UNPLUG SALEM WEBSITE:  http://www.unplugsalem.org/
COALITION FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE WEBSITE:  http://members.bellatlantic.net/~norco/
ICQ# 54268619; The Coalition for Peace and Justice is a chapter of Peace Action.
“We have two lives, the one we’re given, and the other one we make” (Mary Chapin
Carpenter)
“Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights...Get up, stand up, don’t give up the
fight!” (Bob Marley)



************************************************************************
The RADSAFE Frequently Asked Questions list, archives and subscription
information can be accessed at http://www.ehs.uiuc.edu/~rad/radsafe.html