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Re: birth defects in the children of Gulf War Vets [FW] -Reply
Thanks Peter -- I was just wondering.
Ruth Weiner
ruth_weiner@msn.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vernig, Peter G. <Peter.Vernig@med.va.gov>
To: Multiple recipients of list <radsafe@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu>
Date: Friday, February 02, 2001 8:09 AM
Subject: RE: birth defects in the children of Gulf War Vets [FW] -Reply
>Ruth,
>
>I qualify as a veteran. I even ran a tank range for night qualification.
>But my only armor instruction was in general classes in ROTC [late 60s
early
>70] and Chemical Officer Basic (72) and Advanced (76) courses. I would
>doubt seriously if it was used in the Korean conflict. Possibly in Vietnam
>but my recollection is that they always talked about tungsten carbide or a
>tungsten alloy when discussing Armor piercing rounds.
>
>Any opinions expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily represent
>those of the Denver VA Medical Center, The Department of Veterans
>Affairs, or the U.S. Government.
>
>Peter G. Vernig
>Radiation Safety Officer, VA Medical Center, 1055 Clermont St. Denver,
>CO 80220, ATTN; RSO MS 115
>303-399-8020 ext. 2447, peter.vernig@med.va.gov [alternate for business
>- vernig.peter@forum.va.gov; private - peter_vernig@hotmail.com] Fax
>303-393-5026 [8 - 4:30 MT service] Alternate Fax 303-377-5686
>
>"...whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is
>pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is found to
>be excellent or praiseworthy, let your mind dwell on these things."
>Paul
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ruth_weiner [mailto:ruth_weiner@email.msn.com]
>Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 4:46 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list
>Subject: Re: birth defects in the children of Gulf War Vets [FW] -Reply
>
>
>we find DU detritus on almost all of the weapons test sites (firing ranges,
>etc). It has been used in armor-piercing warheads since the 1950s and was
>probably used in the Korean war and in Vietnam. Can any veterans comment
on
>this?
>
>Ruth Weiner
>ruth_weiner@msn.com
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lorraine Marceau-Day <day@lsu.edu>
>To: Multiple recipients of list <radsafe@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu>
>Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:00 PM
>Subject: Re: birth defects in the children of Gulf War Vets [FW] -Reply
>
>
>>
>>Retrospective studies such as looking exclusively at an affected
population
>>are inherently biased. It is like going to Sloan-Kettering and visiting
>>the breast cancer patients to conclude that being a woman causes breast
>>cancer. This is a classical type I I statistical error.
>>
>>The research groups are difficult to access:
>>
>> 1. vets who served
>> 2. vets who were immunized as group 1 but were not exposed to DU
>>(i.e. perhaps they were in Saudi the whole time, or served on a ship)
>> 3. vets who were prepped to go / but did not make the trip
>>
>>The male/female susceptibility is a separate issue. There are so many
>>iterations to the scenario, that DU has to be the only thing that was
>>different if we want to make valid comparisons. This makes the groups
>>smaller than one would wish for statistically-based conclustions.
>>
>>Just a couple of thoughts,
>>
>>Lorraine Day PhD
>>day@lsu.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Thomas J Savin " <tjsav@lycos.com>@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu on 02/01/2001
>>12:08:54 PM
>>
>>Please respond to radsafe@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
>>
>>Sent by: radsafe@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
>>
>>
>>To: Multiple recipients of list <radsafe@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu>
>>cc: (bcc: Lorraine Marceau-Day/day/LSU)
>>
>>Subject: Re: birth defects in the children of Gulf War Vets [FW] -Reply
>>
>>
>>Scott and all,
>>
>>You are correct, interviews (Or studies?) like this by their very nature
>>can have no valid outcomes Especially looking into DU:
>>
>>1. The majority of Gulf War vets are males - For there part, the millions
>>of sperm that are released in each mating attempt. The chances of an
>>unhealthy sperm fertilizing an egg is rare - usually the healthiest win.
>>
>>2. There would have to be four groups of populations to make any sense:
>>male vets, female vets, male non vets, and female non vets. These would
>>have to be compared. The survey is not looking at the control groups
>>
>>3. Other problems - A. the amount of reporting individuals may be biased
to
>>those who read the paper -therefore possibly under reported or over
>>reported (special interest groups "becoming gulf war vets")
>>
>>4. You know I think I'll stop here - If he really wanted to get a great
>>story - he should be looking at asking Saadam's soldiers for information -
>>yeah - now that WOULD be a story. You think they might jump at the
>>chance???
>>
>>Thanks Melissa for all you've done. Tom
>>
>>Tom Savin
>>
>>On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:42:48
>> Scott Siebert wrote:
>>>Can all of us Gulf War vets whose children DO NOT have birth defects
>>>also send a message? Or are they not interested in the multitudes that
>>>do not prove their point???
>>>
>>>Scott Siebert
>>>Internal Dosimetry
>>>Mound, BWXT of Ohio
>>>
>>>>>> "Franta, Jaroslav" <frantaj@aecl.ca> 02/01/01 11:31am >>>
>>>Although DU is not mentioned specifically in this message, it has
>>>appeared
>>>in this context in the past and will no doubt feature prominently in the
>>>resulting media report...
>>>Jaro
>>>frantaj@aecl.ca
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Betty Mekdeci [mailto:abdc@birthdefects.org]
>>>Sent: Tuesday January 30, 2001 10:54 AM
>>>To: birthdefectnews@topica.com
>>>Subject: Special Alert - January 30, 2001
>>>
>>>Birth Defect Research for Children
>>>
>>>Birth Defect News
>>>Birth Defect Research for Children
>>>Special Alert - January 30, 2001
>>>***Attention Gulf War Veterans***
>>>Anton Antonowicz, a chief feature writer with the Mirror, Britain's
>>>second
>>>largest daily newspaper is working on a series about birth defects in the
>>>children of Gulf War Veterans. The Mirror reaches 8 million plus readers
>>>and is syndicated worldwide. Mr. Antonowicz would like to interview
>>>Gulf
>>>War veteran families in the U.S. who believe that their children's birth
>>>defects may be related to exposures during their service. He will be
>>>working with award winning photographer, Mike Moore on the story. Mr.
>>>Antonowitz is a former Foreign Writer of the Year and both he and Mr.
>>>Moore
>>>are Amnesty International Press Award Winners.
>>>If you are interested in talking with Mr. Antonowicz, please send an
>>>e-mail
>>>to betty@birthdefects.org as soon as possible. Include a description of
>>>your child's birth defects and both daytime and evening phone numbers.
>>>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please send an e-mail to
>>>birthdefectnews-unsubscribe@topica.com
>>>To unsubscribe from Birth Defect News, send a blank message to
>>>birthdefectnews-unsubscribe@topica.com
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>>
>>
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>
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