Anyone know about this? Meter for First Responder HEU detection.

[farbersa <farbersa@optonline.net>]

Hi all:

Regarding the question as to what [relatively inexpensive]meter might be  

used to detect HEU take a look at the following surplus inventory  which  

I'm assisting a company in marketing. This unit is currently being offered  

for sale on eBay:



LUDLUM MODEL 12-12 Pu Plutonium WASTE ESTIMATOR

DELIVERED W/ WARRANTY- LUDLUM 12 w/ NaI Detector

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58289&item=3840270964&rd=1



This unit is being offered currently for $712 with a warranty, and can  

provide a quick semi-quantitative indication of Pu-239 or U-235.



On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:18:37 -0800 (PST), Gerry Blackwood  

<gpblackwood@sbcglobal.net> wrote:



> BTW just as a side note.....how do first responders react to HEU?  

> ...Ah....can somone please tell me what meter is used to detect HEU  

> without any tags in the first place??????

>

> "Flanigan, Floyd" <Floyd.Flanigan@nmcco.com> wrote:Well Jim ... I agree  

> with you in part. But in the interest of playing Devil's Advocate ...  

> now where is that soapbox ... I know I left it around here someplace  

> .... THERE it is. Okay ... Where were you when you were making these  

> mistakes in knowing your way around a meter? My guess would be that,  

> much like myself, you were in a position where the consequences for your  

> mistakes were minimal. I'm sure that the powers that be didn't just turn  

> you lose with a meter and automatically make you the head honcho. But  

> ... I believe the crux of the thing is this ... The fireman and such  

> with the newly found and wholly unfamiliar instruments ... will be the  

> ones whom the public turns to in the event of disaster. I know there  

> will always be situations where trial by fire is the only option, but  

> that is not the case here. There should be a seasoned Rad Professional  

> involved with any First Response Organization as a contingency measure.  

> Hu!

>  ndreds of

>  thousands of lives could be saved by having just such a resource  

> immediately available in situations where radiological deduction is key.  

> Granted ... such a resource could sit unused for decades at great  

> ex[expense ... but that's where a good skill mix comes into play. Cross  

> train. Bring in a trainer/consultant. Keep them around until several  

> members of the response organization are up to speed and have a good  

> handle on the finer points of rad protection/health physics. Then set up  

> a requal program to make sure those still in force do not let their  

> skills stagnate. Spend the dime NOW ... not later when the finger  

> pointing has begun and lives have been lost due to lack of proper  

> preparation. A lot of people/organizations out there believe they are  

> properly staffed because they have the resources to keep things running.  

> They make the mistake of not keeping around the resources they would  

> need to recover from an event outside the norm.

> Okay ... now if I can just get down off this infernal box without  

> twisting an ankle ....

> Floyd W. Flanigan B.S.Nuc.H.P.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: owner-radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu  

> [mailto:owner-radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu]On Behalf Of Jim Blute

> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:26 AM

> To: Gerry Blackwood; John Jacobus; Wesley; Hill, Eric D; Cehn@aol.com;  

> radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu; Louis N. Molino

> Subject: RE: Anyone know about this?

>

>

> Just a thought on this subject...

> It seems to me that we as HPs have always wanted the public to be more  

> educated with regards to radiation and nuclear issues in general.   

> However, I have seen so many HPs get all riled up over the fact that  

> uneducated and inexperienced firemen and other first responders are  

> getting this equipment post 911 - and that they wont know what to do  

> with it.  Well I say it is true they wont know right away.  And they  

> will make mistakes as we have seen evidence of.  Isn't this part of the  

> learning process?  Did you know exactly how to interpret the clicks from  

> a meter (with regards to a particular situation) the first second or  

> even 10th time you picked it up?  I didn't.  And it has not prevented me  

> from learning (sometimes through mistakes)  And I would never had  

> learned if I did not use it AND make mistakes.

> I propose that we as HPs not be quick to fault first responders but to  

> allow them to use this equipment, support them, and over time they will  

> gain the familiarity that will help them make informed decisions and we  

> will be one step closer to the public being comfortable with the fact  

> that radiation is all around us and does society much good.

> Having said this - discussing what went wrong with this or any  

> particular event can be healthy and constructive.  I am just proposing  

> the idea that it is in HPs and societies best interest if more people  

> (e.g., firemen) become familiar with radiation and the associated facts  

> such as

> 1. density gauges (or even combustion products from certain materials)  

> causing elevated counts

> 2. twice background is worth investigating but probably nothing to be  

> alarmed about

> 3. it is not uncommon to encounter radioactive material in beneficial  

> industrial use

> comments on my thoughts welcome

> Jim Blute, CHP

> -----Original Message-----

> From: owner-radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu  

> [mailto:owner-radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu]On Behalf Of Gerry Blackwood

> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 8:27 AM

> To: John Jacobus; Wesley; 'Hill, Eric D'; 'Cehn@aol.com';  

> radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu; Louis N. Molino

> Subject: RE: Anyone know about this?

>

>

> The problem here is unfortunate and simple while 98% of first responders  

> are poorly trained and there is NO HP assigned even on a advisory level  

> to most first responders.....

>

> John Jacobus <crispy_bird@yahoo.com> wrote: Was there a sign on the door  

> that indicated

> radioactive material was stored or used in the room?

> Were the firefighters trained that such a sign might

> mean there meters would alarm?

>

> Around here the first responders have meters set to

> alarm at 10 mrem. Do you think that is too low?

>

> --- Wesley wrote:

>

>> Barbara, Eric and Fellow Radsafers,

>>

>>

>>

>> I read the newspaper article on the false radiation

>> alarm. (see link below.)

>>

>>

>>

>> We should look at this from the perspective of a

>> public official charged

>> with protecting citizens. It seems that they

>> responded quite well to the

>> situation:

>>

>> 1. Smoke or haze in a room where radiation was also

>> detected.

>> 2. Tell people within 3 (10?) blocks to close doors

> ! > and turn off A/C

>> units ("shelter in place")

>> 3. The all-clear was announced within 2 hours. (Not

>> bad timing for an

>> emergency radiological detection, response, public

>> notice and final

>> evaluation.)

>>

>>

>>

>> Could we have done better?

>>

>>

>>

>> What would you have done differently?

>>

>>

>>

>> Best regards,

>>

>> Wes

>>

>> Wesley R. Van Pelt, PhD, CIH, CHP

>>

>>

>> Wesley R. Van Pelt

>> Associates, Inc.

>>

>>

>>

>> _____

>>

>> From: owner-radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu

>> [mailto:owner-radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu] On Behalf

>> Of Hill, Eric D

>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:21 PM

>> To: 'Cehn@aol.com'; radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu

>> Subject: RE: Anyone know about this?

>>

>>

>>

>> Fal! se alarm.

>>

>>

>>

>>

> http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/home/article/0,1651,TCP_996_3500728,00.html

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

> =====

> +++++++++++++++++++

> "It doesn't matter whether you're riding an elephant or a donkey if  

> you're going in the wrong direction."

> Jesse Jackson

>

>

> -- John

> John Jacobus, MS

> Certified Health Physicist

> e-mail: crispy_bird@yahoo.com

>

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>

>

>







-- 

Stewart Farber

Consulting Scientist

1285 Wood Ave.

Bridgeport, CT 06604

[203] 367-0791 [home office]





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